The Rebound

Summary

RISK! Podcast — "The Rebound"
Host: Kevin Allison
Guest: John F. O'Donnell
Date: August 19, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this candid and emotional conversation, host Kevin Allison welcomes comedian John F. O’Donnell (JFOD) for a deep dive into O’Donnell’s journey with bipolar disorder, how it intersected with his New York comedy career, and his ongoing work as a performer and mental health advocate. The episode revisits O’Donnell's early comedy days, the infamous manic episode that led to his exclusion from a vital comedy club, his struggle toward recovery, and the community support that marked his rebound. Humor, vulnerability, and artistic insight drive this powerful exploration of mental health, creativity, and resilience.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Early Comedy Years in New York (02:28–07:18)

• John’s Move to NYC & Entry into Comedy:

  • Arrived in 2005 at age 24 after several years of stand-up elsewhere.
  • Started by “barking” (handing out flyers for stage time) at the Boston Comedy Club, a storied but now-defunct venue.
  • Shared shifts with future stars like Nate Bargatze and Pete Holmes.
  • Recalled seeing Dave Chappelle perform unannounced sets during a turbulent time in Chappelle's life (03:57–04:11).

• Emergence of Community and Kingdom of Heaven Show:

  • Described founding the “Kingdom of Heaven” comedy open mic with Timmy Williams at the Creek and the Cave – initially a Mexican restaurant/theater hybrid seeking new programming (05:50–07:18).
  • Comics like Reggie Watts, Amy Schumer, Kumail Nanjiani, and John Mulaney appeared as headliners.
  • The show fostered an unusually supportive, creative, and social scene.
  • Quote:

    “We could be as creative as we wanted to be…it became this sense of community…even if the comics didn’t get on…they would still hang out. Regular people would … attend, which is very rare in New York. And then we would just party like monsters the rest of the night.” (06:30–07:03, B)

Bipolar Disorder and the Catastrophic Manic Episode (09:27–18:10)

• Personal History and the Onset of Symptoms:

  • O’Donnell had previous manic and depressive episodes in college and overseas (09:52), but managed a degree of stability until 2008.

• Public Manic Episode at the Venue:

  • O’Donnell recounts spiraling out of control during a manic episode fed by alcohol and drugs.

  • Infamously alienated fellow comedians and patrons; at one point, drunkenly sobbed onstage and aggressively tried to wrangle a dinner party into watching the show under false pretenses (11:07–12:25).

    “I told them…that the show was to raise awareness for children with autism, which I completely made up. And then they still didn’t want to go in. And then I accused them of being Republicans and screamed at them.” (11:50–12:10, B)

• Consequences and Ejection:

  • Banned from Creek and the Cave, the venue he'd helped turn into a comedy institution.
  • Isolated from the comedy community; former friends distanced themselves out of confusion, not understanding his mental health status (14:24–16:19).

• Mania’s Dual Nature and the Drug Analogy:

  • O’Donnell describes both the addictively exhilarating and ultimately terrifying aspects of mania.

    “Mania can be very exhilarating and euphoric and ecstatic…That’s why people can get addicted to the manias. But for me…it’s very emotionally overwhelming and scary…incredibly…draining, to put it lightly.” (17:39–18:10, B)

Descent, Hospitalization, and Depression (18:50–23:41)

• Aftermath:

  • O’Donnell’s relationships and living situation deteriorate as he spirals further, associating with strangers, hanging out in an abandoned ferry boat, alienating remaining friends and roommates (19:10–19:39).
  • Family intervenes; he is ultimately involuntarily hospitalized at Elmhurst Hospital for two and a half months (21:00–21:30).
  • Following release, experienced a prolonged depressive crash of nine months (“Just as long as the mania,” 22:08).

• Quotes:

  “Now I’m this...this shell…when I’ve been depressed, I felt like, oh, I’m just going to be like this forever now…It’s equally as painful and scary as the mania, just in a different way.” (22:08–22:22, B)

The Slow Rebuild: Medication, Comedy, and Public Honesty (23:41–28:08)

• Medication Struggles:

  • Moved through several medications post-hospitalization; often prescribed drugs less suitable for his Bipolar I, due to incomplete diagnosis or outdated protocols (23:41–24:08, B).

• Return to Comedy Scene:

  • O’Donnell chose radical transparency: “I was going to address everything that happened head on, on stage and on podcasts.” (24:57, B)
  • This not only helped manage the “eggshells” problem but improved his standup, providing material that was both meaningful and funny.

• Destigmatizing Bipolar Disorder:

  • Early on, much of the self-stigma and career fears were powerful barriers. (26:05–26:16).
  • The process of integrating his experience into his comedy (“Trying to destigmatize it from the self-stigma that I had for it,” 25:54) became essential to his identity as an artist.

Redemption and Community: Returning to the Creek (31:44–34:56)

• Readmission to His Comedy Family:

  • After initial reluctance, friends organized a roast as his “welcome back” — a classic comedy sign of “love and respect” (32:25–33:32, B).

    “Instead of me having to limp back in there, they were going to tear me a new proverbial asshole…what a beautiful thing.” (32:40–32:55, B)

  • He describes the importance of feeling reintegrated into a community he cherished.

• Potential Documentary:

  • Filmmaker Andrew Neal is interested in using O’Donnell’s footage and story for a long-in-development documentary about bipolar disorder and his comedy journey.

Mental Health Advocacy and the Power of Creativity (35:13–38:29)

• Service and Self-Forgiveness:

  • Volunteering with NAMI (National Alliance on Mental Illness), presenting his story to patients and professionals—including returning to a psychiatric ward where he’d once been a patient.

    “The road to self-forgiveness is tricky and difficult…But I find trying to be helpful to others is healing and redemptive.” (35:45–36:02, B)

• Creativity as Resistance and Healing:

  • Kevin draws a parallel between artistic creation and resilience in dark times (37:00–38:14, A).

    “In times of destruction, creation is the best way...Creativity and kind of leaning into appreciating art and creating it…and thinking of ways to express and share with other people whatever light we have to share. That’s pretty fucking key.” (37:17–38:09, A)

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Notable Quotes

• On Mental Illness in Comedy:
  • “They didn’t really realize for quite a while that something was going on with me... They thought like, oh, Johnny’s just being a bit extra tonight.” (15:16, B)
• On Medication and Systemic Issues:
  • “Lithium…can’t be patented and put on private label. So it’s very cheap. Pharmaceutical companies can’t really make money off of it…I didn’t get prescribed it until 14 years in my illness.” (30:56, B)
• On Finding Redemption in Advocacy:
  • “Nobody gets off the mat like my nephew John.” (35:13, B, quoting his uncle)
  • “I find trying to be helpful to others is healing and redemptive.” (36:02, B)
• On Community:
  • “Community is so crucial as well.” (38:14, B)
• On His Comedy Show:
  • “My show is currently called I’m on Lithium: A Comedic Journey About Bipolar Disorder. I may be changing it to American Psychosis: A Bipolar Comedy.” (26:05–26:16, B)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Segment | Content Highlights | Timestamp | |-----------------------------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------|-----------| | Comedy roots/Kingdom of Heaven | Early NYC comedy, founding Creek & the Cave open mic | 02:28–07:18 | | Onset/Manic Episode | When mania returned; public breakdown at show | 09:27–12:25 | | Being Banned & Alienated | Aftermath, community disconnect, spiral continues | 13:10–16:19 | | Hospitalization & Depression | Involuntary hospitalization, crash, “shell” of person | 18:50–23:41 | | Return to Comedy/Transcendence | Comedy as healing, honesty about illness, building new material | 24:08–28:08 | | Medication Odyssey | Lithium, pharmaceutical industry factors, finding right meds | 30:17–31:44 | | Roast/Community Forgiveness | Friends’ roast at Creek & the Cave as symbolic reacceptance | 32:25–34:56 | | Advocacy & Redemption | NAMI, volunteering, self-forgiveness, paying it forward | 35:13–38:29 | | Creativity as Survival | Creation as revolutionary act in dark times | 37:00–38:14 | | Show Plugs & Resources | Website, show info, newsletter, where to see JFOD perform | 38:41–39:19 |

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Conclusion & Resources

John F. O’Donnell’s resilience, honesty, and comedy craft provide both stark truths and genuine hope for anyone navigating mental illness or supporting creative communities. For upcoming shows or more about John, visit jfodlovesyou.com or follow him on social media @JFODlovesyou.

Kevin Allison closes by encouraging listeners to share their own stories of mental health and creativity at risk-show.com/submissions, reminding all that “today’s the day. Take a risk.”

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Transcript

[A]

On this episode of Risk, I always.

[B]

Pretended to like Rush more than I was familiar with their music. I know they're cool.

[A]

Well, I don't know. I don't know exactly how the cool. They're definitely cool. Among nerds, among boys, you know. Yeah. Hello folks, this is Risk, the show where people tell true stories they never thought they dare to share. I'm Kevin Allison and this is another one of our conversation story episodes where someone tells me a story. And if you're hearing this on our audio podcast, know that there's a link to the video version of the show in the show notes. And if you're watching this, come on over to our audio podcast Risk, where we've been sharing jaw dropping, boldly told true stories for over 15 years. There's thousands of stories to find on Risk we wherever you get your podcast or at risk-show.com today we're sharing a story that John F. O' Donnell told me about his 15 year long journey from first experiencing major manic and depressive episodes from bipolar one to the remarkable creative and communal work he's done to shine light on the condition and help others with it.

[B]

We'll be right back.

[C]

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[B]

We're back.

[A]

So without further ado, here I am with John F. O' Donnell, a story about that time he got kicked out of his favorite comedy club. Tell me, like, what was it like when you started off in comedy in New York? Like, how old were you and how did your whole New York comedy thing start?

[B]

Sure. Well, I started comedy. I did like three and a half Years before I moved to New York. I moved to New York in February of 2005. So I was 24 years old, and I initially started barking, handing out flyers for stage time at a venue in Greenwich Village called the Boston Comedy Club.

[A]

Yeah, of course.

[B]

Yeah. Around the block from the Comedy Cellar. Total underdog club because it was called the BO in New York City. And I barked at the time with such notable comedians as Nate Bargazzi and Pete Holmes.

[A]

Yeah, well, I remember back in the day when Neil Brennan was working there, and I think that's where he met Chappelle. So, yeah, a lot of people have, like, done their time there, you know, either working the door or barking for it. Not even necessarily on stage at first.

[B]

Absolutely. And I was there towards the tail end of the Boston. And it was 2005 when Chappelle was dealing with all the fallout from his Comedy Central show.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[B]

So the only place he would come and perform was the Boston. So he would come around and it was super exciting as a young comic to see him in 2005 come and perform on stage for a couple hours, you know, on a Tuesday.

[A]

Jesus Christ.

[B]

It was wild.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

So, like, me and Nate and Pete would start to get annoyed that Dave would come around because we knew we'd be getting bumped from our spot. Of course, it's kind of hilarious to be, like, annoyed as a young comic that a comedy legend is coming around to do a spot. But yeah, but anyway, so there was that, and that was cool. And then I was also doing spots at Rafife, which at the time was more of the alternative comedy scene compared to the club comedy scene. I mean, that used to be the big divide in comedy. The club comics and the altcomics.

[A]

That was totally, totally. And then over at Rafivi was more where Eugene Merman and John Mulaney and folks like that were absolutely, absolutely.

[B]

Nick Kroll.

[A]

Uh huh huh.

[B]

So I would do spots there, and I was bouncing around between both scenes. And then cut to 2007, myself and my friend Timmy Williams from the Whitest Kids yous Know, Timmy and I decided that we wanted to start an open mic in either his neighborhood of Greenpoint or my neighborhood, where I was living of Long Island City, Queens, just north of Greenpoint. At the time, nobody was familiar with Long Island City. They thought it was in Long Island. So I had to convince people that it was just north of Greenpoint. So one day, me and Timmy were just walking around both of our neighborhoods looking for a venue, and we found this Mexican restaurant that happened to have a black box theater in it, which turned out to be the Creek in the Cave, because the owner at the time, Rebecca, was trying to do legitimate theater productions in there. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah. And she was doing some directing.

[A]

Uh huh.

[B]

And we asked her if she'd be open to doing comedy. She said yes. And then we started a bi weekly Wednesday show called the Kingdom of Heaven. The alternate Wednesdays was this sketch show by these great sketch comics called the Jerk Practice. And our show, the Kingdom of Heaven, became this very popular hang for the comedy community. Yeah, we did it in a unique way where we would have 10 spots that were picked and then there would be funny come lately spot we called it, that was picked out of the bucket after the 10 people went up. And then we would always have a headliner go on that we called the comedian of Merits, who would do like 15 to 20 minutes. Reggie Watts did it. Amy Schumer did it. Kumail Nanjiani did it. Anthony Jeselnik, Jaqueline Novak, John Mulaney, a bunch of people. And it really became this sense of community and just we could be as creative as we wanted to be and it would be a mic. But even if the comics didn't get on a particular show, they would still hang out. Regular people would actually come out and attend the mic, which is very rare in New York. And then we would just party like monsters the rest of the night. And it was very fun. So I'm very grateful to have gotten to contribute to the origin story of the Creek and the Cave, because then there was a big expansion of programming there and it became a full fledged comedy club.

[A]

Oh my God. Eventually there was a podcasting studio in there. There was a garden outside where everyone could have parties afterwards. There was the big theater. The Mexican restaurant was still there. I mean, it was hugely important in the comedy scene for what it became of bringing people together, giving people their starts. I remember, I think the first time I met you would have been maybe right as risk was beginning. And I remember being completely charmed by you because I thought you were so enthusiastic and having such a great time just being a friend of everyone in the comedy community, you know? You know, because a lot of people in the comedy community can be a little cool or aloof or even, you know, kind of sarcastic or whatnot. But I remember meeting you and feeling like you were just an all around fun guy and very enthusiastic about the community itself.

[B]

That's incredibly sweet to hear. Thank you, Kevin. I really appreciate that. I know. And I remember the first Time that I got to do Risk, that was such a cool experience for me to get to do that.

[A]

Was that the Howard University show?

[B]

I did Risk once before that at the Pit.

[A]

At the Pit. Right, right, right.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, and one thing I wanted to say, what was so fun at the Kingdom of Heaven is what the show is called. And me and Timmy would dress up as characters. I would dress up as Jesus F. Christ.

[A]

All right?

[B]

And he would be altar boy Timmy. And we would dress up and we would do these sketches. And it was funny because Timmy was in, like, very successful sketch group, and he's trying to do standup, and I'm like, I want to do these sketches with you, Timmy. He's like, all right, I guess I'll do them with you. But we wrote some really fun things, and we would have guest hosts, like Sean Patton would guest host sometimes as the devil. We were just being silly and goofy and having a lot of fun. And I remember that time fondly, you know, until things got off the rails.

[A]

Yeah. Talk about that a little bit. Where are we in time now? What year is it?

[B]

So the creek in the cave began throughout the year of 2007. For that year, then I'd say April, May So of 2008 is when that manic episode was taking over. Did you.

[A]

At this time, did you know about manic episodes and that whole thing with you?

[B]

I did. I did. At that time in my life, I'd already had two manic and depressed episodes. One in college and one studying abroad. Actually still in college in Dublin. And then I was good somehow for about five years. I was being somewhat medication compliant, but I was still in denial about it. I was still trying to outrun it. I wasn't doing everything to stay well. You know, I was scared that if I was treated properly for it, that I wasn't going to be able to be a comedian, that I wasn't going to have that creativity, and that it was going to, you know, undermine that. And, you know, that turned out not to be the case. The opposite was actually true. But that's where I was at in 2008. And I did have this huge fear that a nightmare of mine would come true, that I would have one of these episodes very publicly. And that's exactly what happened. It was a long, extended episode that really burned a lot of my life to the ground and initially burned a lot of bridges and really set me back.

[A]

Take us there that night. So we're at the creek in the cave. Were you literally doing that Kingdom of Heaven show that night.

[B]

It very well may have been one of the KOH shows, one of the Kingdom of Heaven shows. One of the times I remember performing there while man, quote unquote. Performing there while manic was. I was completely drunk off of red wine. My teeth were stained with red wine. I was looking like a mess and. And I went on stage and I was just so overwhelmed with emotion that I was just sobbing into the mic. Now this happened after I'd already alienated myself from a lot of people and I was really pushing people to the edge. And I also really yelled at a large group of people in the restaurant downstairs who were eating downstairs because I really wanted them to come in and see the show, but they were just trying to have a birthday celebration and they didn't want to come in. And I feel awful about this, but I told them, I lied to them and I told them that the show was to raise awareness for children with autism, which I completely made up. And then they still didn't want to go in. And then I accused them of being Republicans and screamed at them. Oh my gosh, it's just ridiculous.

[A]

How were you feeling in that moment? I mean, do you think that you were like kind of sincerely pissed off at them?

[B]

I think that I really wanted an audience for the show and I was so easily agitated in that manic state that I was legitimately angry at them. And I knew in my mind they were going to be missing something good. Like I wasn't setting them up to go to not have a good time, but I was genuinely angry with them and it was certainly, certainly inappropriate behavior. They ended up leaving. I must have been that scary. And they didn't pay their bill. So that was a large tab that the venue lost.

[A]

Wow. Uh huh.

[B]

Somebody called the owner, Rebecca, who was relayed what had happened. Her father happened to be there. He's like a big time Republican in some, like in some county in Virginia or something like that. His plan was to come to the creek in the cave to, you know, knock me out. Oh, oh, he was really angry. He's like a real hard ass guy.

[A]

Uh huh.

[B]

And then it was told to me later that because when he got there, I was on stage and I was just crying, overwhelmed with emotion that he was like, I'm not gonna, what am I gonna do to this guy? You know, so he didn't do anything. So that kind of saved me in a way. But then I got kicked out. I don't remember exactly how I got told I was kicked out. But I just knew I wasn't allowed to go back there. They wouldn't let me in. I don't think I kept trying to get in. I don't think I was aggressive in that way. But what I had done by that point in time had really alienated myself from most of my friends and was starting to meet new people who didn't have a frame of reference or a context to know me when I'm in my right mind. But I was connecting with them in some other way and they probably weren't the best people for me to be around, you know?

[A]

Right. Well, there is the thing where, you know, if you're someone like Andy Kaufman or something like that, you can really be playing with mind fucking in your comedy. Right. And so it might be a little confusing for some people if you're not in your right mind, but you're doing comedy. Some people might not just get, is this an act or what? When you say you alienated a lot of people. Part of the manic experience, from my understanding, is being kind of puffed up and feeling like you've really got it. Like you've, you know, you're onto bigger things. You know, like you're plugged into something, a higher calling or something like that. And then maybe you were just freaking people out because you were getting frustrated with them for not, like, clicking with you that way. Is that. Would that be inaccurate?

[B]

I think that definitely resonates with me for sure. At times. I've described it as that I feel like I'm this evolved entity, that I'm living my life at this higher level of consciousness or awareness or understanding of the oneness of life. And people are just compartmentalizing me as being mentally ill so they can dismiss me instead of realizing maybe they have to change something about themselves. So, yeah, I mean, that's the thing too. I mean, my friends didn't really in any depth know about my bipolar diagnosis. I don't think I was really open about it at that time. So they didn't know what was going on. And because throughout 2007, at that time of my life, I was a very outgoing person. And, you know, we're all comedians and we're all acting kind of crazy. So they didn't really realize for quite a while that something was going on with me. They didn't know initially. They thought like, oh, Johnny's just being a bit extra tonight or something like that.

[A]

Right, right.

[B]

You know, which ended up being not great, that no one knew what was going on. So. Yeah, so that was the thing. It was like this episode was ramping up. It was ended up being a nine month long episode because I was fueling it with drugs and alcohol.

[A]

Oh, shit.

[B]

I just kept. I was smoking so much marijuana that kept the fire burning.

[A]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[B]

And I was drinking a lot and I was just totally spun out. And it's wild. I mean, I have this whole solo show now about part of that episode that takes place in Dublin and Belfast and Edinburgh, but there's all of these wild experiences and meaningful experiences that happened both before and after in New York City.

[A]

Yeah. Before you said you were somewhat medicated before this episode. Did you start to just not medicate at all? I mean, other than the drinking and marijuana?

[B]

To be honest, when I think about it, I think it was sometime earlier when I was partially medicating, but then I was thought I was okay for a while, so I just wasn't taking anything.

[A]

My understanding also is that it itself can feel a little bit like being on a drug, but in a very, like, exciting way.

[B]

It can. I think that mania can be very exhilarating and euphoric and ecstatic and at times for sure. And that's why people can get addicted to the manias. But for me, it takes on a component of delusion that is very emotionally overwhelming and scary, can be even terrifying, and is really incredibly, you know, draining, to put it lightly. So for me, it's not just like fun and games when I'm manic. It's certainly not.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Foreign. We'll be right back with more from John F. O'. Donnell.

[B]

Hey, it's Jill Schlesinger, CBS News business analyst, certified financial planner, and host of the podcast Money Watch with Jill Schlesinger. It's a show where we answer your questions about your money, from investing to retirement and completing your taxes. I'll be your financial coach and help take the stress out of managing your money. Plus, we might even have a little fun along the way. Follow and listen to Money Watch with Jill Schlesinger on the Free Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[A]

We're back. So tell what happened after you were kicked out of the creek in the cave. So you've basically been, like, banned from the center of the comedy community at the time that you had kind of been central in starting.

[B]

Yeah, it was. It was a nightmare. It was horrifying. I remember. So then I wasn't around all of those people. They didn't want to be around me. They didn't know what was going on. And I remember being in my apartment, I still had my roommates, one of which was my friend Hans, who is a member of that sketch group, the Jerk. Practice that at the opposite Wednesday show. But I remember I was just bringing random strangers home to the apartment to do drugs and stuff like that, you know.

[A]

Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

So I remember one time I brought somebody home. We were being loud late at night. Hans came out of the room. You know, he yelled at me. The person was freaked out, left rightly. So we were both apologetic to each other the next day, but Hans, somewhat thereafter moved out. So I had just random people living with me. It was. It was bad. And I was more isolated. And the whole thing was that before this happened, I'd already made plans to go do shows in Dublin and Belfast and Edinburgh. So that was already all booked. My family begged me not to go. They couldn't stop me. I went. That's a whole whirlwind tale. I make it back somehow alive. And I'm back in New York now, still manic for a number of months, completely alienated from everybody. Now things are getting really weird. I'm hanging out in this abandoned ferry boat that's in the Newtown Creek between Greenpoint and Long Island City that these guys somehow have it, and they're renting it out for parties. I don't know if it's gray area legal. I don't know what's going on, but I'm hanging out with them. They're not treating me very well, but I'm. I'm, like, doing, like, menial tasks for them. One of them staying at my apartment, paying me with marijuana. It's just a bad scene. Finally, my aunt figured out some way to get some social workers or somebody to do a wellness check on me in my apartment. And they did, and they determined, you know, that I wasn't well. And then sometime thereafter, EMTs or Police or some people came to my place and took me into an ambulance and brought me to Elmhurst Hospital in Queens. You know, very underfunded, really rough place. Really was not a positive experience. I had to stay there for, like, two and a half months. It was pretty brutal throughout Thanksgiving, Christmas, Hanukkah, into New Year's. And then I got out of the hospital, moved home. And then, you know, I was depressed in the hospital, and I was depressed for a number of months after that. I was depressed for nine months, just as long as the mania. And that was incredibly painful. Just feeling like, oh, wow, I was on top of the world. I had so Much energy and I was such a dynamic person. And now I'm this. This shell.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And when I've been depressed, I felt like, oh, I'm just going to be like this forever now. You know, I'm going to be this shell of myself. And it's incredibly painful and it's equally as painful and scary as the mania, just in a different way.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Considerably less funny to talk about after the fact.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But it's part of it. It's part of my story and my experience, you know, for sure.

[A]

And what about medication at that point?

[B]

At that point I was on medication, but that was really rough because I was getting heavily medicated. They put me on something called Risperdal, which is very Risperdone or something like that. It's very heavy. I remember talking to a psychiatrist that I did not like that I thought was kind of mean spirited. And he was like, well, you know, you're gonna have to be on this because you have a very severe mental illness. Like it was not looking into other options. So then I saw, I met with another psychiatrist and they determined to put me on something else. But unfortunately I was on that. But it probably be appropriate medication for somebody with bipolar 2 disorder. It's called lamotrigine as a potential stand alone medication. But for bipolar one disorder, which I have, it turned out not to be enough. But I was very much like, oh, I'll take this because I don't feel any side effect profile from it. I'm not going to take these other medications. So I still was trying to outrun it. Even after this whole episode. I still didn't get with the program still for a number of years after this.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But after that nine month long depression, I did muster up the fortitude and resiliency to come back to the New York City comedy scene.

[A]

And that was when you were still kind of not on the right sort of medication and felt like you were back in the swing of things. You were able to still come back and start rebuilding in the community.

[B]

Yeah. I was no longer manic, I was no longer depressed. I was on some medication. But the way that the pattern of my mania and depression has been there has been, you know, multiple years of stable mood in between. But I decided that I wanted to come back. I feel grateful that I created enough goodwill in the scene over the years that I've been there that, you know, most people were rooting for me to come back, that they wanted me to come back. So that meant a lot to me. I also made the decision that I was going to address everything that happened head on, on stage and on podcasts. I decided I wasn't going to brush one speck of dirt underneath the carpet, you know, so this would have the effect, hopefully, of people not feeling like they had to walk on eggshells around me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And honestly, it really forced me to dig deep to make very personal and painful things funny. It really made me better at comedy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And most all the material from before that was no longer viable. Like my voice had changed. And that was like the fall of 2009, going into 2010. And that was when I started talking publicly about everything that had happened to me and trying to destigmatize bipolar disorder, mental health issues. Trying to destigmatize it from the self stigma that I had for it. Because I still wasn't doing everything in my power to make my mental health central to my life. I was still drinking. I wasn't smoking weed, but I was still drinking. I was being medication compliant. But I don't know if I had a talk therapist at the time. I was still just trying to outrun it just to pursue this comedy career.

[A]

Well, I've seen your solo show and was blown away by it. One of the reasons that I was so impressed with the solo. What's the name of your solo show?

[B]

It's currently called I'm on Lithium, A comedic journey about bipolar disorder. I may be changing it to American Psychosis. A bipolar comedy. We'll see.

[A]

Okay. I was so impressed with it because I felt like. Well, I did know some parts of it already, but I felt like it was so clearly well thought through and it was really clicking and flowing and there wasn't a dull moment in it. And it impressed me because I have that bad habit of having a fixed mindset rather than a growth mindset. So one of my problems as a performer and a writer when I was younger, well, it's still true today, is that, you know, I would write a solo show and it would be like four or five character monologues. And I do it once. And, you know, it would be for a black box theater of 40 people or so. And then I'd be like, okay, so I didn't get my Hollywood contract. Well, this. And then move on to the next project. You know what I like there was some part of me that was afraid of, no, no, you put something out there. Admitting this isn't all there yet. This is flawed. And I gotta keep God damn doing this until it gets better. And so when I Saw your solo show. I was like, wow. Because even the stories, even the parts of stories in that show that had occurred on Risk before, they were, you know, finding all sorts of new nuances and flavors and everything. It was really something.

[B]

I'm. I'm excited to continue to perform it. I mean, I've been performing it, and I've started touring with it, which has been exciting, but it's. You know, I'm really proud of it. I know it's a good show, but you still. You gotta. You gotta fight for it to get it out there.

[A]

Oh, fuck. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

So I'm trying to. I just want people to see it. Cause I know. I know that it's a meaningful show. I know it's really funny. And it's also really helpful because some mental health professionals have found out about it. They've been coming out, they've been giving me positive feedback. And even more meaningful to me is people with bipolar disorder have come out and seen the show. Family members of people with bipolar disorder have come out, and ultimately, it's a hopeful story. Oh, absolutely. So that's where I really want to get it, out there.

[A]

Yeah. And the thing of it is, people's personal stories about these things are so important because these things show up differently in different personality structures, different genders, different biologies. You know, like, even adhd. I have tried so many medications for adhd. Only one ever really worked for me, and that was Adderall, which I finally just gave up on because there's a shortage of it and it's hard to get. And that's incredibly frustrating to me to have to every 30 days call 50 pharmacies in New York and then finally, you know, be like, okay, what the fuck? I feel like I'm a junkie looking for a fix here or something. So, anyway, so I haven't been able to get Adderall here, and now I'm on something called Strattera, which, quite frankly, I could be on a sugar pill. I don't think Sotera does jack shit for me. But that's the thing when you've got ADHD is a lot less of a problem than something like bipolar. But when you've got these conditions, you've got a unique personality, you've got your own body and everything. You might have to go through years of experimenting with this drug or that or this kind of therapy or that. And, you know, it helps to hear different people's stories to get to know, okay, this doesn't show up exactly the same for Everybody. And I've got to be patient and keep, you know, looking for ways to get this handled.

[B]

Well, you know, I didn't get prescribed lithium until 14 years into my illness.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's what I'm currently on. And it's working well for me in conjunction with the generic of lamictal, which is lamotrigine, and also a little bit of Abilify. That's the combination that works for me. But lithium went out of fashion out of favor for being prescribed for a long time because they're worried about side effect profile, but also because it's an element on the periodic table. So it can't be patented and put on private label. So it's very cheap. Pharmaceutical companies can't really make money off of it.

[A]

Jesus.

[B]

So I think that contributed to marginalizing it. But all these years later, they've come back and the psychiatric community says that lithium is the gold standard treatment for bipolar I disorder. But I didn't get prescribed it until 14 years in my illness. I'm not saying I would have been medication compliant from day one, but it would have been nice, at least. A newer way they prescribe it now is that I'm on a sub therapeutic amount, meaning it's less than the amount of lithium in my blood for it to be what's considered in the. The range, to work the therapeutic range. But they do that, they put it below the therapeutic range because you're on a couple other things. So that allows that to work and minimizes side effects and potential issues with kidney and liver.

[A]

So in that building yourself back up phase, did you return to the creek in the cave?

[B]

Well, the last place I felt comfortable going back was the creek and the cave. I was really embarrassed. I was really ashamed by my behavior. So I'd already been back doing spots in other places, doing stand up. And it was understood that I could.

[A]

Go back because enough people were rooting for you. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

But I didn't go back there. So I came back to the scene in like the fall of 2009. I didn't go back to the creek until May of 2010.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And it was amazing because it was decided that the comedians, my friends, were going to throw a roast of me upon my return to the creek and the cave.

[A]

Amazing.

[B]

So cool, right? So the way I like to put it is instead of me having to like limp back in there, they were going to tear me a new proverbial asshole. You know, like, what a beautiful thing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What a sign of love and respect. Because the Roast in the comedy community. That's huge.

[A]

Oh, absolutely. Yeah.

[B]

We roast the ones we love.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

So, yeah, so it was. It was Sean Patton's idea. He was the roastmaster, and Rebecca was cool with it, the owner of the creek. And it was a dais of all of my best friends and great comedians.

[A]

That's amazing.

[B]

And I'll be honest, I can't remember any of the jokes from that night. I can't. But I remember the feeling of that night.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

I remember how special it felt, how much fun we had, and how cool it felt to be reintegrated into this community that I care about so much.

[A]

Yeah. Well, I think not being able to remember the jokes from a roast of yourself might be a good thing in some.

[B]

Yeah, you're right. You're absolutely right. But listen to this. My friend Andrew Neal, who has this film production company called See Think Films, he thinks that he recorded it that night and has video recording of the whole roast. Oh, wow. Because he, at the time, Andrew, back in 2010, wanted to make a documentary about bipolar disorder. I was gonna be one of the subjects. He interviewed me during that time. Right when I got back, he filmed some of my standup sets and stuff like that. He then ended up shelving the documentary. Cause he got too much other work. Then cut to, many years later, he reaches out to me while I'm writing this solo show about that time, saying he wants to pick up the documentary, comes and interviews me again, comes and records the New York City premiere of the show, and now wants to make a documentary about me eventually getting back to Dublin, doing the show there, doing the show in Edinburgh and stuff like that. So that would be, like, spanning over 15 years.

[A]

Wow. That would be amazing. That's awesome. Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

So maybe it'll happen. That'd be cool.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, you know, it's such a great example of someone taking flaws, messiness, mistakes, or whatever and creating something entertaining and fun. Fun and wonderful and really helpful to people.

[B]

Yeah, it means a lot. You know, it means a lot to me. My uncle says, he goes, nobody gets off the mat like my nephew John. Which I thought is really sweet. But, yeah, no, there's redemption for me in. In being a mental health advocate and using comedy to try to destigmatize bipolar disorder and mental illness. I mean, there's things that I heavily regret from being manic that I'm embarrassed about and feel bad about, and people that I treated poorly. And even if they've forgiven me, the road to self forgiveness is Tricky and difficult.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I find trying to be helpful to others is healing and redemptive. You know, I've been volunteering with nami, the national alliance on Mental Illness, the largest grassroots mental health advocacy organization in the country. I'm a In Our Own Voice presenter. So I go to psych wards or outpatient units or other locations and co present with somebody and tell my story about mental health recovery to try to be helpful. I just did it at Mount Sinai for a bunch of mental health professionals. It was a really great, engaging discussion. One time I went and did it at Lenox Hill Hospital in the Upper east side in the psych ward for people in the unit. And I'd actually been hospitalized there some years before. So it was a real full circle experience to go back there and give a presentation to try to connect with people and be helpful, you know.

[A]

Wow. Damn.

[B]

It's pretty cool.

[A]

Yeah, that is very cool. You know, I was thinking the other day about the era we're in right now and how there's so much destruction happening and so many of us are just like overwhelmed some days and just don't know how to process it. But I'm reminded of when the towers fell in 2001. I remember it was like the next day. I was staying at my brother's place in Staten island at that time and he had a huge jazz collection and I had no real familiarity with jazz. And I just got into my mind, I'm going to learn all about jazz and get to know all these records and all these people and read these jazz books and I'm going to start, you know, writing some stuff that would later become another solo show. Because I was thinking to myself, in times of destruction, creation is the best way. Creativity and kind of leaning into appreciating art and creating it and thinking of ways to express and share with other people whatever light we have to share. That's pretty fucking key. Like that's pretty revolutionary in and of itself.

[B]

Absolutely. And also community is so crucial as well. But yeah, I mean, I feel lucky in the respect that, you know, mental illness is a growth industry in America, you know.

[A]

Now more than ever. Well, that's awesome. Where can people find you and find out what you're doing next with the show?

[B]

Okay, people can go to j fodlovesyou.com that's j f o d loves you.com that's where you can find out when I'm doing the solo show, you can join my newsletter. You can watch my standup special on YouTube. The manic depressive chocolate fountain operator. I'm really proud of it. I perform the show in New York City monthly in residency at Cobra Club. Right now, the usually the third Friday of the month on social media. I'm at J. Fodlovesyou. JFOD loves you. Yeah, I'd love for people to come out and check out a show.

[A]

Yeah, I highly, highly recommend it. And that is all of my conversation with John F. O'. Donnell. Like the man said, he'[e-mail] and you can find us on all the socials and on YouTube, RiskShow, and at our website, risk-show.com and if you've got a story to share about mental illness or creativity and the fight against destruction, let me know. Just go to risk-show.com submissions and send me your pitch, because today's the day. Take a risk.

[B]

I don't know.