Episode #173. What We Don’t Know: Leading AI Governance with Humility and Clarity, with Anahi Santiago, Chief Information Security Officer at ChristianaCare

Summary

Risk Never Sleeps Podcast — Episode #173

"What We Don’t Know: Leading AI Governance with Humility and Clarity"

Guest: Anahi Santiago, Chief Information Security Officer at ChristianaCare
Host: Ed Gaudet
Date: December 22, 2025

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Overview

In this episode, Ed Gaudet sits down with Anahi Santiago, CISO at ChristianaCare, to delve into the challenges and opportunities presented by AI adoption in healthcare. The discussion centers on AI governance, risk management, and the importance of humility and collective leadership in a rapidly evolving technological landscape. Santiago shares firsthand experiences from her organization's journey to implement and oversee AI while safeguarding patient safety.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Pace and Potential of AI in Healthcare

• Excitement and Impact:
  Anahi affirms that AI has transformative potential in care delivery and that ChristianaCare is eager to adopt and test the latest innovations.
  “There's a lot of exciting things that can happen in healthcare through the use of AI and that the impact that it can have on care delivery is monumental, transformative.” — Anahi Santiago [01:31]
• Adoption at ChristianaCare:
  ChristianaCare is technology-forward, with AI applications ranging from ambient listening and scheduling to traditional cybersecurity use cases.
  “We're a technology forward organization that wants to be the first to do everything.” — Anahi [01:54]

AI Governance and Guardrails

• Governance Structure:
  A robust AI governance process exists, grounded in a risk management rubric. Any new AI project goes through an assessment involving both governance and engineering teams.
  • Sandbox testing and rubric evaluation are central.
  • Use cases must be defined and mapped to existing capabilities.
    “We've stood up an AI governance process and have developed a rubric, a risk management rubric. And so any new projects...goes into that rubric...” — Anahi [02:41]
• Accelerating Assessment Cycles:
  Due to the surge of interest, governance meetings moved from monthly to weekly.
  • Over 10 new technologies introduced for assessment recently.
  • Emphasis on not being a bottleneck:
    “We can't be the ones to slow things down... We don't live in a culture where we move slowly.” — Anahi [05:59]

The Challenge of the Unknown

• Recognizing Limits:
  The greatest challenge is the velocity of change and the uncertainty around risks—ranging from cybersecurity to ethical, clinical, and bias-related.
  “We don't know what we don't know. Right. This is a really new technology...we're not experts.” — Anahi [03:21]
• Collective Responsibility:
  Risk ownership is shared—no one person or committee can fully "own" AI risk.
  • Cybersecurity history helps inform governance frameworks.
  • Education and cross-functional alignment remain a work in progress.
    “I’ve had to become very comfortable in acknowledging that I don’t know what I don’t know. And that has to be an acceptable answer. But collectively we can make the appropriate decisions.” — Anahi [04:08]

Practical AI Use and Personal Reflections

• AI Tools in Daily Work:
  Copilot and AI-based solutions help save time, especially for communication tasks (like email summarization). “Copilot has become a crutch for me...I no longer just do things from scratch. I asked Copilot to get something started and then I refined.” — Anahi [07:55]
• Work-Life Balance:
  Conference travel is challenging while maintaining ongoing job duties.
  “I still have a full time that I need to get done and people don’t want to wait because I’m traveling.” — Anahi [07:19]

Approaches to Leadership and Personal Growth

• Intentional Leadership:
  Anahi reflects on a key lesson—actively supporting team members' ambitions and not making assumptions about their satisfaction or growth. “Early on in my career...I would just put people in roles and just assume that they were happy...And so I changed my approach to being a leader to ensure that...they are not just fulfilling their existing role, but growing.” — Anahi [12:29]
• No-Regrets Mindset:
  Values growth from both good and bad decisions.
  • “I've always lived...a life of no regret because I feel like every decision...led to my growth.” — Anahi [12:29]

The Value of Networking and Learning

• Continuous Learning and Industry Collaboration:
  Santiago plans to leverage learnings from the conference and is especially energized by the Healthcare Sector Coordinating Council’s new AI initiatives.
  “The Healthcare Sector Coordinating Council just issued an announcement about the AI products that they're going to bring forth. That's actually. I'm very excited about that.” — Anahi [08:58]

Recognition and Tenure

• Decade CISO:
  Anahi has served over 10 years as CISO at ChristianaCare, previously holding privacy and security roles at Einstein Healthcare Network. “Ten and a half years.” — Anahi [09:44]
• Recent Accolades:
  Recognized as Global CISO of the Year by Cyber Defense Magazine, emphasizing the reward is making a positive impact in patient care.
  “Just knowing that every day we're impacting patients and healthcare positively is all that I need.” — Anahi [11:08]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “We don't know what we don't know…I've had to become very comfortable in acknowledging that I don't know what I don't know.” — Anahi Santiago [03:21]
• “Every voice has to be equally loud and acknowledged in this work. It's not just a cyber security issue.” — Anahi [05:37]
• “Cyber safety is patient safety, as we say in the HSC.” — Ed Gaudet [11:24]
• “The one thing that we know is we can't be the ones to slow things down.” — Anahi [05:59]
• “Copilot has become a crutch for me, really. I no longer just do things from scratch...That’s really helpful.” — Anahi [07:55]
• “I've always lived...a life of no regret because I feel like every decision...led to my growth.” — Anahi [12:29]

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Sports and Lighter Moments

• Philadelphia Sports Passion:
  Anahi’s favorite moment was the Eagles’ first Super Bowl win, recalling the ‘Philly Special’ play. “Just being in the building and watching our team win their very first Super Bowl ever in history was incredible.” — Anahi [19:48]
• Travel Anecdotes:
  Reflections on a recent trip to Australia, kangaroos, koalas, and sports banter around football stadiums and rivalries.

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Where to Find Anahi Santiago

• LinkedIn:
  “I'm all over LinkedIn. Connect. Don't try to sell me things…I love sharing thought leadership there.” — Anahi [22:29]

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Highlighted Timestamps

• Main AI governance discussion: [01:31]–[06:50]
• Risk and humility in leadership: [03:21]–[05:37]
• AI tools in daily leadership: [07:55]–[08:53]
• Leadership and regret: [12:29]–[13:28]
• Sports banter and lighter moments: [16:02]–[22:29]

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Summary

This episode delivers deep, candid insights into the realities of AI adoption in health systems. Anahi Santiago exemplifies thoughtful, humble leadership—prioritizing collective governance, acknowledging the unknowns in AI risk, and promoting continuous professional and personal growth. Listeners gain both strategic and practical takeaways for advancing patient safety and responsible innovation in a complex digital health landscape.

Transcript

[Unknown Speaker]

Foreign.

[Ed Gaudet]

Welcome to Risk Never Sleeps, where we meet and get to know the people delivering patient care and protecting patient safety. I'm your host, Ed Gaudet.

[Saul]

Hello, everyone and welcome back to the AI Med Podcast, the insight series of the podcast brought to you by Sentinet and also Outcomes Rocket. I'm here with my co host, Ed Gaudette.

[Ed Gaudette]

Hey, Saul.

[Saul]

What's up, Ed?

[Ed Gaudette]

How are you?

[Saul]

It's been great.

[Ed Gaudette]

It's been. Yeah. Fun.

[Saul]

And it's about to get better.

[Ed Gaudette]

It's gonna get so much better because.

[Saul]

We are with Anna E. Santiago. She is the CISO at Christiana Care. Anna E. Welcome.

[Anna E. Santiago]

Thanks for having me.

[Saul]

It's such a pleasure. Ed, talk to us.

[Ed Gaudette]

So that was fun on the panel. What'd you think?

[Anna E. Santiago]

I thought it went by too quickly.

[Ed Gaudette]

It did. I thought we had to talk about more time too.

[Anna E. Santiago]

Did she.

[Ed Gaudette]

Was it like an audible called at the end that? Like, did we have different questions or.

[Anna E. Santiago]

I. Yes, she definitely called an audible and she said it. She said she was going to go script and she did. I think it's better when.

[Ed Gaudette]

Fine. I like it.

[Anna E. Santiago]

I prefer that.

[Saul]

Me too.

[Ed Gaudette]

Me too. Yeah.

[Anna E. Santiago]

Yeah.

[Ed Gaudette]

I don't like panels that are scripted or where they try to box me. That'll do well in a box.

[Saul]

I definitely know that. I'm taking notes. Oh, you.

[Ed Gaudette]

Oh, that's good.

[Saul]

That's good.

[Ed Gaudette]

Ani, what's the most interesting thing you've learned so far?

[Anna E. Santiago]

None of that. I've learned this, but affirmed that there's a lot of exciting things that can happen in healthcare through the use of AI and that the impact that it can have on care delivery is monumental, transformative.

[Ed Gaudette]

Truly is. Now you're doing a lot at Christiana Care.

[Anna E. Santiago]

We are. Yeah, we are. We're a technology forward organization that wants to be the first to do everything. And so we're herding the cats, standing up our governance processes and ensuring that we are building the appropriate guardrails to do it effectively. But certainly that train has left the building.

[Ed Gaudette]

Do you have anything deployed that ambient listening or.

[Anna E. Santiago]

We have ambient listening. We have some AI in the rest cycle space as well as the scheduling space. And of course, we've got traditional AI in our cybersecurity products that we've been running for over a decade. So we're all in.

[Ed Gaudette]

They're all in. What are you doing? You. Your process? Are you bringing it into like a sandbox area first to test?

[Anna E. Santiago]

And so we have. So we've stood up an AI governance process and have developed a rubric a risk management rubric. And so any new projects that we want to bring through. Through for assessment goes into that rubric, which includes your typical questionnaire, among other things, that is reviewed by our governance team, and then depending on the complexity, might be moved over to our innovation and engineering team, who does the testing and the assessment for tech efficacy.

[Unknown Speaker]

Got it?

[Ed Gaudette]

Got it. What's the biggest challenge been with adopting AI?

[Anna E. Santiago]

So, a couple of things. The velocity at which people want to adopt it and the lack of understanding exactly of what the risks are. I think people generally understand the cybersecurity risks, yet we all know that there's clinical risk, there's ethical bias, there's so many different things. And so helping our organization to really be educated and ensure that they're aligning what we want to do with the policy that has been established is certainly one. I would say that another risk is we don't know what we don't know. Right. This is a really new technology, and although some of us claim to be a little bit more experts than others, we're not experts.

[Ed Gaudette]

Right.

[Anna E. Santiago]

I don't know what I don't know. And so I've had to become very comfortable in acknowledging that I don't know what I don't know. And that has to be an acceptable answer. But collectively we can make the appropriate decisions. Even just as morning we were meeting, our governance committee was meeting and somebody asked the question, who owns the risk? And frankly, I chimed in such a great question. Yeah, no one collect, no one person can own the risk. The steer can help to manage and communicate the risk, but the steer doesn't own it and no one member in the steer owns it as well. And so I think in cybersecurity, we've done a pretty good job of understanding governance frameworks because we've been doing it for so long. And now helping other steers, like the AI governance steer to understand what risk management frameworks look like and how they work has been a little bit of an uphill battle. Yeah, I shouldn't say battle, but it's been work.

[Ed Gaudette]

We're all bringing different functions together that have different levels of understanding and then facilitating that. Who runs the stair for you?

[Anna E. Santiago]

So it used to be the head of our innovation center, and she has since left. So yours truly.

[Ed Gaudette]

Oh, there it is.

[Anna E. Santiago]

Was tapped.

[Ed Gaudette]

Grand Wizard AI governance right there.

[Anna E. Santiago]

So I'm helping to advance, but it really, you know, I've really pushed that. Every voice has to be equally loud and acknowledged in this work. It's not just a cyber security Issue.

[Ed Gaudette]

How often do you meet?

[Anna E. Santiago]

We currently meet monthly, but now we've agreed to meet weekly.

[Unknown Speaker]

Weekly?

[Anna E. Santiago]

Yeah. There's just so much. There's just so much activity right now. I think we have 10 different technologies that have been introduced for assessment. And the one thing that we know is we can't be the ones to slow things down. Like, we just. We don't live in a culture where we move slowly.

[Ed Gaudette]

So you're guiding folks as they're bringing in new things. Are you guiding them and say, okay, what's your use case? And let's start by defining that first and.

[Anna E. Santiago]

Exactly. Exactly. And does it fit within our rubric? We have. We've always had this methodology of if we've got platforms that do it today or those. It's in their roadmap. You're going to have to make a really good case for why you wouldn't use those platforms. And we are trying to fit that framework into now all of the AI.

[Ed Gaudette]

Use cases don't bring me a new AI ticketing system if I use ServiceNow. And ServiceNow can do the job right. All right, Saul.

[Saul]

Yeah, no, it's. It's fascinating. It's moving fast. And on the networking side of being here, have you met any interesting people?

[Anna E. Santiago]

I have not, unfortunately. As I mentioned, I've spent quite a bit of time in my hotel room trying to juggle all of the different balls that was juggle on any given day.

[Ed Gaudette]

So it's so hard to travel, isn't it?

[Anna E. Santiago]

It's hard because I still have a full time that I need to get done and people don't want to wait because I'm traveling.

[Ed Gaudette]

Everybody needs something.

[Anna E. Santiago]

Absolutely. And I get the luxury to travel, so I need to do my part to ensure that I'm present with work as well.

[Saul]

Is there any AI that could help you with what you do? Free you up? Well, can it free you up?

[Anna E. Santiago]

I will be very honest.

[Ed Gaudette]

A digital twin.

[Saul]

Oh, how about that?

[Anna E. Santiago]

That would be fabulous.

[Ed Gaudette]

That could help schedule time and manage your administrative tasks. That would be great.

[Anna E. Santiago]

I would love that.

[Unknown Speaker]

Me too.

[Anna E. Santiago]

But honestly, Copilot has become a crutch for me, really. I no longer just do things from scratch. I asked Copilot to get something started and then I refined. That's it saved me a lot of times. And we also have some members in our organization that enjoyed the written word. So getting Copilot to just summarize the email so that I can move on.

[Saul]

To the next really helpful word. Long emails. Yeah, we call them brick walls.

[Ed Gaudette]

Yeah.

[Anna E. Santiago]

Well, and honestly, in the security space, for sure.

[Saul]

Yeah.

[Anna E. Santiago]

We have to move fast and the AI is going to help us.

[Ed Gaudette]

If I have to page down in an email, I'm not going to page down.

[Saul]

It's a bad move.

[Ed Gaudette]

Yeah, it's a bad move. Put in a document if I got to read more than a. Right.

[Saul]

Yeah. That's not what email's for. No.

[Anna E. Santiago]

But emails become the tool for everything that it was never meant to be.

[Saul]

Yeah, you're right about that. Are you going to do anything different as a result of being here when you go back?

[Anna E. Santiago]

I'm certainly going to bring back some of the learnings and the sharings that I've walked away with, frankly, in addition to what's happening here, the Healthcare Sector Coordinating Council just issued an announcement about the AI products that they're going to bring forth. That's actually. I'm very excited about that. So I feel like I have a pretty good amount of work to put forth when I get back.

[Saul]

It doesn't stop.

[Anna E. Santiago]

It never stops.

[Saul]

But you love it.

[Anna E. Santiago]

That's why I'm a ciso.

[Ed Gaudette]

You do. You have to love that job to do that job.

[Anna E. Santiago]

You have to love the job and you have to love learning and you have to love doing new things over and over again. And that's exciting for me.

[Ed Gaudette]

Yeah. And you've been there how long, though?

[Anna E. Santiago]

Ten and a half years. I know.

[Ed Gaudette]

That's incredible though. That's incredible.

[Saul]

How long you been in the Cicero?

[Anna E. Santiago]

So I was hired into the Cicero. Oh, okay. Okay.

[Saul]

So you've been doing the Cicero for 10 years.

[Anna E. Santiago]

Yeah. So I started at Einstein Healthcare Network in 05 as our very first information security officer.

[Unknown Speaker]

Cool.

[Anna E. Santiago]

I then adopted the privacy officer role and I did that for ten and a half years before moving to Christiana and now another ten and a half at Christiana. So something is either right or wrong with me.

[Ed Gaudette]

Yeah, you're the decade ciso.

[Saul]

I love that.

[Ed Gaudette]

Yeah.

[Saul]

That's rare, right?

[Ed Gaudette]

There are many CISOs that have lasted more than five years, let alone.

[Saul]

Is that the average tenure, five years?

[Ed Gaudette]

No, it's like 18 months or something like that.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah.

[Ed Gaudette]

It's insane.

[Saul]

Well, you're a very reliable ciso.

[Anna E. Santiago]

I'm also lucky that I work.

[Ed Gaudette]

She's damn good in her job there. Reliable. What is that?

[Saul]

And damn good. I guess both.

[Anna E. Santiago]

Knock on wood. But I just have worked for two really special, wonderful organizations and there's absolutely. Christianicare has given me absolutely no reason to want to go anywhere else.

[Ed Gaudette]

And congratulations. You just won an award recently. Right.

[Anna E. Santiago]

I did see so.

[Ed Gaudette]

Of the year.

[Anna E. Santiago]

Global cso.

[Saul]

Damn. Of the globe of the year for the year.

[Ed Gaudette]

No. Who's that? CISO magazine.

[Anna E. Santiago]

Or was it Cyber Defense?

[Saul]

Cyber Defense.

[Ed Gaudette]

Cyber Defense Magazine.

[Anna E. Santiago]

Wow.

[Ed Gaudette]

Yeah. It's incredible, huh?

[Saul]

How does it feel?

[Anna E. Santiago]

It just feels good to be recognized for giving back to industry that I'm super passionate about. But honestly, even without the recognition, just knowing that every day we're impacting patients and healthcare positively is all that I need.

[Ed Gaudette]

Cyber safety is patient safety, as we say in the hsc.

[Saul]

That is correct. I love Greg Garcia. He's awesome.

[Ed Gaudette]

He is.

[Saul]

Shout out to him.

[Ed Gaudette]

We're going to see him next week, right?

[Anna E. Santiago]

Yeah, we are.

[Ed Gaudette]

Yeah.

[Anna E. Santiago]

Yeah.

[Ed Gaudette]

St. Louis.

[Anna E. Santiago]

All hands meeting.

[Unknown Speaker]

All hands.

[Ed Gaudette]

We're on the road again, so.

[Saul]

Great. Well, and I know you've been on Ed's podcast before and has he. Has. Have you asked her the lightning round questions?

[Ed Gaudette]

I have probably. I haven't asked her this question, though. If you go back in time and change one decision you made, what would it be? I know, it's a new one.

[Anna E. Santiago]

That's interesting. Yeah, I would. I don't even have a good answer for that. You've stumped me. Oh, no, I've never been stumped before.

[Ed Gaudette]

Someone said today when they were younger, their mother made them put milk in a microwave and then drink it.

[Unknown Speaker]

That was.

[Ed Gaudette]

She said, I won't. I would never drink the milk again. Were you here?

[Saul]

I missed that one. I wasn't there.

[Ed Gaudette]

Okay. Okay. Yeah, that was. Was that Nick? Nick Lynn? Yeah. That was an incredible answer. So it could be any decision. It doesn't have to be anything like.

[Anna E. Santiago]

Yeah. So I've always lived, and I'm just oversharing. Just lived a life of no regret because I feel like every decision that I've made, whether it was good or bad, led to my growth. And perhaps a decision that I would make differently is early on in my career when I was still learning to be a leader, I would just put people in roles and just assume that they were happy in their role. And I had one individual that resigned. And when he gave his exit interview, I had learned that it was because he wanted to do offensive cybersecurity. And we outsourced that. And so I changed my approach to being a leader to ensure that I'm always asking people and being intentional about ensuring that they are not just fulfilling their existing role, but growing.

[Ed Gaudette]

Yeah.

[Anna E. Santiago]

So would I do it differently? I learned.

[Ed Gaudette]

You learned from it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. No, I love that answer. It's hard, especially if you've led a life with no regrets.

[Unknown Speaker]

Right.

[Ed Gaudette]

And because there's that butterfly effect.

[Anna E. Santiago]

Right.

[Ed Gaudette]

If I make that decision differently, what would that have caused and rippled.

[Unknown Speaker]

Right.

[Ed Gaudette]

Who knows?

[Unknown Speaker]

Right.

[Anna E. Santiago]

Exactly.

[Ed Gaudette]

Maybe you wouldn't be here today.

[Anna E. Santiago]

You never, honestly never know.

[Ed Gaudette]

You don't know.

[Saul]

I love that one. On our company, we do the PPF process. It's personal, professional, financial. And we talk one, one, two, and three years from now. Where do you want to be? What do you want to do? Personal, professional, financial. And that one thing that we've done at our business has really helped just connect. Personal mission, business mission.

[Anna E. Santiago]

Love that.

[Ed Gaudette]

Yeah, me too.

[Saul]

And it's been really effective for us. The team loves it.

[Ed Gaudette]

What do people typically say for financial.

[Saul]

Well, they want to make more money. How much they want to make. They want to get out of debt. That was one. And coaching them to. To work through that. And so just it ranges. Right. Like, I want to learn how to invest more.

[Ed Gaudette]

Yeah.

[Saul]

Interesting. I want to buy houses.

[Ed Gaudette]

Yeah. Nice.

[Saul]

I want to buy my first place. Like, these are the things. And then you get granular with them about how you save money. How much do you want? What kind of place? Like, literally, I was having a conversation. It's really good. Okay, you want a place, but tell me more about the place. So we got to seventh floor, facing the water, two bedroom, one and a half bath. Now we're talking. Right? And what. Where do you want to buy it? What's the price range? So then they.

[Ed Gaudette]

They had a plan.

[Saul]

Yeah.

[Ed Gaudette]

You gave them a plan.

[Saul]

It was great.

[Ed Gaudette]

I love that.

[Anna E. Santiago]

That's so cool. I might borrow that.

[Saul]

I'll send you the template if you want.

[Anna E. Santiago]

I would love it. Thank you.

[Saul]

It's part of our pretty cool engagement and retention process.

[Anna E. Santiago]

So I'm excited. That might be the biggest takeaway through this conference.

[Saul]

You're too kind.

[Anna E. Santiago]

I'm serious.

[Saul]

You're too kind. Anai. I love that.

[Ed Gaudette]

Where are you going next for. You were in Australia for a while.

[Anna E. Santiago]

I was in Australia, Yeah. I just got back a couple weeks ago.

[Ed Gaudette]

Yeah, I know. How was that trip?

[Anna E. Santiago]

That was incredible.

[Ed Gaudette]

Do you see any big spiders?

[Anna E. Santiago]

I did not see anything that I thought could kill me. Oh.

[Ed Gaudette]

Because they have weird stuff there.

[Anna E. Santiago]

Apparently. It's the country where they have the most things that can kill you.

[Ed Gaudette]

Yeah, that's right. Oh, you didn't see anything that could kill you.

[Anna E. Santiago]

I saw alligators or crocodiles, but not in the wild. Like, at, like, animal sanctuaries.

[Ed Gaudette]

Kangaroos can kill you too. Like, they could hit you. Yeah, they're nasty.

[Anna E. Santiago]

Allegedly. But I fed kangaroos and they were super adorable.

[Ed Gaudette]

They might be medicated kangaroos. Mangaroos.

[Anna E. Santiago]

What I learned is that koalas, apparently they spend most of the day sleeping, but when they are awake, they are essentially drugged from the eucalyptus plant. So they live their lives either sleeping or on drugs.

[Ed Gaudette]

Story of my college career right there. I was sleeping or on drugs. I'm a koala bear. It's amazing. I graduated now. Oh, Mark's not laughing. There's heart. Get in here. We're going to talk sports next. Oh, forever. Come on. Come on. Mark, you can ask Ani a question.

[Saul]

I did.

[Unknown Speaker]

We had dinner.

[Ed Gaudette]

I know.

[Unknown Speaker]

And we talked a lot. Asked a lot of questions. So. Yeah. I would say my biggest takeaway is if there was any Philly fan I wanted to have dinner again with, it would be Anahi. I'm a Cowboys fan and I'm not really big into Philly, but my wife's cousin's from Philly, so.

[Ed Gaudette]

Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah.

[Ed Gaudette]

Philly fans are passionate.

[Saul]

Yeah.

[Ed Gaudette]

Yeah. Like Boston fans. Right. Only you're a little crazier.

[Anna E. Santiago]

We're a little unhinged.

[Ed Gaudette]

Yeah. I think a little more.

[Anna E. Santiago]

But we wear it.

[Ed Gaudette]

You're closer to the New York fans than you are the Boston fans.

[Anna E. Santiago]

I think we've probably surpassed the probably fans I was.

[Ed Gaudette]

Yeah.

[Anna E. Santiago]

But we own it.

[Ed Gaudette]

You don't want to be in a.

[Unknown Speaker]

Philly bar if they're losing stadium.

[Anna E. Santiago]

What do I miss the old stadium? Absolutely not.

[Unknown Speaker]

The concrete.

[Anna E. Santiago]

Yeah. No, my seat didn't work. I had to actually climb on top of my seat. Like, my seat wouldn't go up.

[Ed Gaudette]

So that's why they're angry.

[Anna E. Santiago]

Yeah. I literally had to stand up on my seat so people could walk in front of me.

[Unknown Speaker]

What?

[Anna E. Santiago]

That place was such a dump.

[Ed Gaudette]

What a. Yeah.

[Saul]

God is done, right?

[Ed Gaudette]

It's like the Boston Garden. I could never understand that. Boston Garden was awful. Like, why would you want to preserve the Boston Garden?

[Unknown Speaker]

You know what happened in the last game of the stadium?

[Anna E. Santiago]

Tampa Bay. Oh, my God. You just saw.

[Ed Gaudette]

You just took the life out of her.

[Anna E. Santiago]

Mark. Yeah.

[Ed Gaudette]

What the hell?

[Anna E. Santiago]

That. That to this day is the worst night that I can sports wise.

[Ed Gaudette]

Really?

[Anna E. Santiago]

The worst night I just. I remember walking back to. So it was for the listeners. The Eagles played Tampa Bay in the championship game. And at the time, there was a stat that Tampa Bay had never won a game in under 40 degree weather. And it was freezing.

[Ed Gaudette]

Oh.

[Anna E. Santiago]

Like we tailgated in a U Haul truck. We actually rented a U Haul truck. That's awesome. And put heaters inside.

[Ed Gaudette]

You probably had a fire going in that truck.

[Anna E. Santiago]

Well, so we had heaters in the trunk and then we fried our turkey.

[Unknown Speaker]

And it was in the truck.

[Saul]

Oh, thank God.

[Ed Gaudette]

That's dangerous. That's the riskiest thing.

[Anna E. Santiago]

We were so confident.

[Ed Gaudette]

Yeah.

[Anna E. Santiago]

And we got.

[Ed Gaudette]

Yeah, you were having Thanksgiving dinner.

[Anna E. Santiago]

I'm like, yeah, it was. And I still remember the walk back to the U Haul truck. And it was just quiet. So silent. Like this eerie quietness. And then every once in a while you would hear an S bomb and then it would get quiet again. And it was just. It felt like the longest walk in 20 degree weather back to our car.

[Ed Gaudette]

Like coming out of the movie Blue Velvet for the first time. It was very quiet. People are like, what did I just watch?

[Anna E. Santiago]

Never saw that.

[Ed Gaudette]

Oh, don't watch it.

[Saul]

I haven't watched it either. It's so weird, right?

[Ed Gaudette]

David lynch movie. All right. All right, Mark, another question to really bring the tone down, the demeanor down.

[Anna E. Santiago]

Oh, he's thinking.

[Ed Gaudette]

He's thinking. Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker]

Favorite Philadelphia sports moment.

[Anna E. Santiago]

Wow. Most likely the Minnesota Super Bowl LII Just being in the building and watching our team win their very first super bowl ever in history was incredible. Incredible experience.

[Unknown Speaker]

Philly special, right?

[Anna E. Santiago]

That was the Philly special during that game.

[Ed Gaudette]

What's the Philly special, Mark?

[Unknown Speaker]

That's with. Was it Nick Foles?

[Anna E. Santiago]

So Nick Foles was our quarterback and he essentially caught the ball from one of our tight ends in a trick play.

[Ed Gaudette]

Oh, I love the trick play.

[Unknown Speaker]

Wasn't Brent Selleck, was it? Was it, Brent?

[Anna E. Santiago]

It was not Bren Selleck. It was our third string.

[Ed Gaudette]

Really?

[Anna E. Santiago]

Yeah, he was our third string tight end.

[Ed Gaudette]

They throw the third stringer out there for the trick play. That's tricky. That's tricky as hell. Cause no one's expecting that.

[Anna E. Santiago]

Right? No one's expecting that.

[Ed Gaudette]

Who's this guy coming out?

[Anna E. Santiago]

Well, the interesting thing is earlier in the game, the Patriots had tried to throw the ball to Brady and of course he dropped it. But of course, of course he did.

[Ed Gaudette]

Oh, that's painful.

[Anna E. Santiago]

I had a little.

[Ed Gaudette]

Yeah, that was good. Well done. Well done. Yeah. How many rings do we have? I'm sorry. Six? Seven.

[Unknown Speaker]

Given the two, I would choose Philadelphia over New England.

[Ed Gaudette]

Everybody hates New England. You know why haters gonna hate?

[Unknown Speaker]

Because. Sorry. Because.

[Ed Gaudette]

Shake it off because they cheat. Shake it off because they Taylor footballs. You're a Cowboys fan, okay. You're always in misery.

[Saul]

Yeah.

[Ed Gaudette]

And the Jess fan, too. Originally a Jets fan.

[Unknown Speaker]

No.

[Ed Gaudette]

That's the worst, isn't it?

[Anna E. Santiago]

That's what were you?

[Ed Gaudette]

That's the worst.

[Unknown Speaker]

What were you originally?

[Ed Gaudette]

I was a Raiders fan of his.

[Unknown Speaker]

See?

[Anna E. Santiago]

What is that?

[Unknown Speaker]

I don't know.

[Ed Gaudette]

Howie Long. Come on. Layla Zado. Oh, my God. Stabler. Kenny Stabler.

[Unknown Speaker]

Come on the mat.

[Ed Gaudette]

John Matac.

[Anna E. Santiago]

Oh, I know.

[Ed Gaudette]

Great guy.

[Anna E. Santiago]

You had me at Howe Long because he was. Because he burged. Chris Long.

[Ed Gaudette]

Yeah.

[Anna E. Santiago]

Obsessed with him.

[Unknown Speaker]

Really?

[Ed Gaudette]

I think everybody in this panel is obsessed.

[Unknown Speaker]

Coming on the podcast.

[Ed Gaudette]

Yeah.

[Anna E. Santiago]

What? Yeah, like, I want that one.

[Saul]

That was good.

[Ed Gaudette]

That was good. Wow, Mark, Funny zinger from. And we're here with Mark Gaudette and his first joke ever.

[Saul]

We love to give all of our guests sort of an opportunity to share where your work could be found and where could they learn more about you. So where can our listeners do that?

[Anna E. Santiago]

Gosh, I'm all over LinkedIn. Okay, so follow me on LinkedIn Connect. Don't try to sell me things.

[Ed Gaudette]

Don't sell her, please.

[Anna E. Santiago]

I become a not so nice person when you try and sell me things, but certainly I love sharing thought leadership there. That's probably where I share the most. Awesome. So connect with me.

[Saul]

That's fantastic. We'll leave that in the show notes so you guys can get in touch with Anai Santiago Ciso at ChristianaCare. Thank you all for tuning in. And, Anai, thanks for joining us.

[Ed Gaudette]

Yeah, thank you.

[Anna E. Santiago]

Thanks for having me. This was fun.

[Ed Gaudette]

All right.

[Ed Gaudet]

Thanks for listening to Risk Never Sleeps. For the show notes, resources and more information and how to transform the protection of patient safety, Visit [e-mail] that's C-E N S I N E T dot com. I'm your host, Ed Gaudet. And until next time, stay vigilant because Risk never Sleeps.