Episode #189. If Your AI Program Ignores Security You Are Already Behind, with Will Conaway, healthcare technology executive and AI advisor

Summary

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Risk Never Sleeps Podcast – Episode #189

Title: "If Your AI Program Ignores Security You Are Already Behind"
Host: Ed Gaudet
Guest: Will Conaway (Healthcare Technology Executive & AI Advisor)
Date: January 14, 2026

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Overview

This episode features a vibrant and insightful conversation between Ed Gaudet and returning guest Will Conaway, a seasoned healthcare technology executive and AI advisor. The episode probes deeply into the intersections of AI, cybersecurity, and governance in healthcare, with a focus on protecting patient safety amidst rapid technology change. Outside the technical discourse, Ed and Will share personal stories (from Grateful Dead encounters to guitar building), bringing warmth and personality to the conversation.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Will’s Career Evolution: From Corporate Executive to Consultant

• Will provides an update since his last Risk Never Sleeps appearance. He’s transitioned from a senior VP role at a large company to full-time consulting, AI advising (via Ascent Business Partners and his own Tuxedo Cat Consulting), and continued academic work at Cornell.
• He describes the realities of consulting:
  • Quote: “When you work for a large corporation, there’s people to help you… When you go into kind of working on your own… you have none of that. You find yourself wearing all hats.” (06:19)
• Consulting lets him focus on unique projects (including AI hallucination reduction and cybersecurity), more speaking engagements, and media opportunities.

2. AI Strategy vs. IT Strategy in Healthcare

• Will distinguishes the need for a formalized AI strategy separate from traditional IT. He predicts:
  • Quote: “Within the next couple years there will be AI officers at all healthcare organizations.” (08:10)
• Advice for Healthcare Leaders:
  • Define what you want AI to do before engaging consultants.
  • Set measurable, realistic metrics: “People call me all the time with unreasonable thoughts of what AI can do… they’re thinking 500-fold.” (08:10)
  • Know your organization’s history and pain points, and focus improvement efforts on patient-centered care.
  • Emphasize continuous improvement in organizations running slim margins: “Healthcare organizations… running below dollar or zero or 2% EBITDA, that’s a hard thing to do.” (09:37)
• AI is a "game changer," with $394B in global spending projected for 2025.

3. Common Mistakes in AI Implementation

• Dirty Data: Organizations assume their data is clean—usually a false assumption.
  • Quote: “Use your data and your metrics and have them clean. I keep seeing people not… use benchmark of the industry. Use your own data.” (10:44)
• Vision Deficit: Many organizations lack a compelling, clear vision for AI’s role, leading to unfocused, IT-driven projects instead of business transformations.
  • Quote: “The vision points the way for your people… these are paradigm shifts.” (11:32)
• Low-hanging Fruit: HR, finance, and contact centers are ripe for rapid AI impact, but security is critical.
  • Quote: “If you’re not talking to people around security… you’re missing the boat. That is one of the most serious things we have.” (12:34)
  • Healthcare breaches average $4.4 million per incident; records are highly valued on the black market.

4. Trends & Playbook for AI Adoption (2026 Outlook)

• Ed and Will discuss the shift from AI concept to implementation, focusing on rapid wins before scaling.
• Will highlights:
  • Agency AI (tailored applications)
  • Domain-specific models
  • Robust AI security measures
  • The converging roles of payers and providers

5. AI Governance: Building Effective Committees

• Committees need cross-functional representation—not just IT.
• Five essential pillars: Fairness, Transparency, Privacy, Accountability, and Trust
  • Quote: “Good governance says… you need to make sure you’re looking at fairness… it should be inclusive, accessible, not discriminate, not amplify existing biases.” (14:59)
  • Transparency (“black box” problem) and clear accountability are touchy but non-negotiable, especially when patient harm is possible.
• On patient/family involvement:
  • Patient and family voices are increasingly included; families often provide fuller perspective on care episodes.

6. Security and Patient Safety: The Core Message

• Cybersecurity is non-optional in AI-enabled healthcare.
• Senior leaders must collaborate with CISOs to address the unique vulnerabilities and high-value stakes of health data.

7. The Human Side: Faith, Fears, and Philosophy on AI

• Will and Ed explore the philosophical and spiritual dimensions of AI, including the specter of job loss and "playing God" (resurrecting personas, etc.).
  • Quote: “You are a creator. You could create life... Very Star Trek.” (25:34)
• Will is working on another book exploring AI from a faith-based perspective.

8. How Will Uses AI Day-to-Day

• As a thought partner: generating feedback for students, brainstorming for writing, and even personal advertising via avatars.
• Quote: “I’m not beyond… writing out my ideas and saying, ‘What did I miss here?’ It’s a thought partner.” (23:54)
• He creates content for courses, consults for clients, and uses AI avatars for communication.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On data and metrics:
  “Metrics… tell you where you’ve been, where you are today, and if you’re going to hit things. People tend to measure what makes them look good, not what makes them better.” (11:00, Will Conaway)

• On security and AI programs:
  “Healthcare is probably the weakest… they need to really lock that down.” (13:26, Will Conaway)

• On the existential risks of AI:
  “People are worried about an asteroid hitting the earth and that’s going to be the end of things. Maybe it could be AI, maybe that’s in how we do things.” (20:58, Will Conaway)

• On “playing God” with AI:
  “You are a creator. You could create life. You could create people who have already been here. Very Star Trek.” (25:34, Will Conaway)

• On AI as creative inspiration:
  “I have my own avatar … my wife seems to like him better … they actually asked me to bring the avatar over for Thanksgiving.” (24:03, Will Conaway)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Topic/Quote | |------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:22 | Will’s career changes since last podcast | | 06:19 | Consulting vs. big corporate experiences | | 08:10 | “There will be AI officers at all healthcare organizations.” | | 10:44 | The importance of clean, organization-specific data and measurable metrics | | 11:32 | On vision and organizational transformation with AI | | 12:34 | Security as the most pressing AI concern in healthcare | | 14:59 | Building fair, accountable, and transparent AI governance committees | | 17:18 | Including patients and families in AI committees, survey limitations | | 20:45 | AI’s potential downsides—job loss, existential risk | | 23:18 | How Will uses AI as a day-to-day thought partner | | 24:03 | “I have my own avatar … my wife seems to like him better.” | | 25:34 | Discussing “playing God,” AI personas, faith, and philosophical implications | | 27:52 | Personal life—Will’s cat stories; conversation about pets, music, and guitars | | 31:49 | Session playing stories; favorite rock albums, musical influences | | 34:56 | Lightning round: decisions to change, bucket list, and travel anecdotes |

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Tone and Language

• The tone is candid, energetic, and often humorous, with both host and guest openly sharing insights and personal anecdotes.
• Will is particularly direct when discussing healthcare’s failings (“healthcare is probably the weakest… with their security”), but also empathetic regarding leaders’ challenges.

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Closing Thoughts

• The key message is clear: AI in healthcare without security is reckless. Data hygiene, measured goals, inclusive governance, and unflinching attention to security are the table stakes.
• Will’s humanistic, even philosophical, perspective on AI runs throughout, reminding listeners that these are not just technical challenges, but societal ones.

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Resources & Further Reading

• Will's Book: “The AI Universe” (Published Oct 31, 2025, available on Amazon)
• Censinet — Risk and security resources
• For music enthusiasts, Led Zeppelin’s “Presence” and “Achilles Last Stand” get particular mention as all-time favorites.

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End of Summary

Transcript

[Will Conaway]

Foreign.

[Ed Gaudet]

Welcome to Risk Never Sleeps, where we meet and get to know the people delivering patient care and protecting patient safety. I'm your host, Ed Gaudet. Welcome to the Risk Never Sleeps podcast, in which we learn about the people that are on the front lines protecting patient safety and delivering patient care. I'm Ed Gaudette, the host, and today is a special day. The man, the myth, the legend is back. Will Conaway. Good morning. Or good afternoon. How are you?

[Will Conaway]

Good afternoon. I'm doing great. Glad to be back. Part two. I guess I kind of worry about that because I had to ask myself, was the second Rambo movie better? Was the second Rocky movie better? So I'm a little concerned today.

[Ed Gaudet]

The second Godfather movie, though might be There is truth. Arguably.

[Will Conaway]

There we go. I don't know.

[Ed Gaudet]

Star Wars 1, 2. I don't know. Whatever it is, they're all good. They're all good.

[Will Conaway]

Absolutely.

[Ed Gaudet]

Yeah. Well, I suspect we're gonna have fun today. I'm a little wired, I must admit. I think I had two venti Americanos, so I probably have 12 shots coursing through my vein of espresso.

[Will Conaway]

Oh, geez.

[Ed Gaudet]

Hold on, folks. Kids, don't try this at home. All right, so let's start off with. Man, lots changed since we last spoke. So bring listeners up to date.

[Will Conaway]

Oh, boy. Yeah. You know, I last time I was working for a large company as their vp, I am no longer there. That happens as an executive, you know, I have to have to kind of laugh about it sometimes. You do. Since then, I have really been main focus on being a senior AI advisor for an organization, Ascent Business Partners. I also have my own consulting that I've been doing that's been going very well with Tuxedo Cat Consulting, working with several other organizations, actually six of them right now, which is a little crazy. One company that's working on hallucinations at AI, trying to figure out how we reduce those or totally eliminate them. Do a lot of cybersecurity items, just mainly as consulting for some groups. And I still, for the last 15 years, been at Cornell University. I've been working with three different colleges there over the years. Still doing that, and working with General Casey, teaching our VUCA courses, trying those more into healthcare and even talking about those. I use that at HEMS of recent and been doing some odd consultant work that you might find funny and probably has a few snide remarks. I can't get into all of it, but I have been working with the Hilton Corporation, the APAC region, doing some of their Organizational strategy, FBI, which I definitely can't. To working with some of their chiefs and just what they're doing. Sodexo, great company. And Dempsey Sonora, who does dental supply. So a lot going on. And I was part of a group that wrote a book that we'll get into at some point, maybe here during the last five minutes to an hour.

[Ed Gaudet]

And since you mentioned Cornell, I got to do the shout out to Barton Hall May 8, 1977, for all you fans out there.

[Will Conaway]

Yep. I actually, when you go to Cornell, the stores up there still have those shirts. I got my brother one last year in size 3X. He's a big man, and it looks sharp on him, I have to say. He's wore it proudly.

[Ed Gaudet]

Well, many people don't know this, but in 2023, they came back to Barton hall and they played the anniversary concert May 8, 2023. And I went. I won a lottery ticket and my daughter and we went up to Ithaca and we had a great time and it was a great show. It was amazing to be in Barton Hall. The legendary Barton Hall. So, yeah, but you're right. All those stores, and there's still a lot of stores that obviously reflect the culture of the Deadheads, which is cool. Cornell's an awesome place.

[Will Conaway]

I have to ask, was the show as good without Jerry Garcia? That's the one thing I just, you know, that's a.

[Ed Gaudet]

That's a third rail, as we call it, Right?

[Will Conaway]

Yeah.

[Ed Gaudet]

So there are those that think that it's not the Grateful Dead without Jerry Garcia. Okay. And I agree with that, by the way. It's not the Grateful Dead. It's Dead and Company now. It's still the Grateful Dead music and it's still played. And it's. John Mayer is amazing. Like, I don't care what you think about him. Everyone gets a second chance. But he's one of the best. He's one of our best guitarists today, I would say. And he is. I mean, he keeps the music alive. And it's amazing to have the opportunity to still go to shows. I went to six shows at the Sphere this year, and I went to three the previous year, and I did the whole 2023 tour. And yeah, so I just keep racking up the points. As long as they're still playing, as they say.

[Will Conaway]

I have one good Grateful Dead. Related story. Yeah, When I was in my early 20s, I was at the Rainbow Bar and Grill, and the group I went with, I should say the one guy was driving, left early. Did not tell me he left early. I had quite a ways to go back home to my house in Studio City or my apartment. I shouldn't say house. Yeah. I didn't know what to do. And I was back kind of pre cell phone and getting a cab. And at the time I had very long hair and looked a little bit rough. Did you hitch? I had a better one than that. I actually was leaving the Rainbow, and I'm walking around kind of looking very lost, which is probably a good thing if you're a Grateful Dead fan, you know, and he just fell right in. And if all people. Bob Weir walked by and he goes, you look like you're lost. And I go, I was with the guy and he was driving, and I have the way home. And he goes, well, get in the car where you live. And he drove me home.

[Ed Gaudet]

What?

[Will Conaway]

That's. Oh, my God.

[Ed Gaudet]

That's fantastic.

[Will Conaway]

Yeah.

[Ed Gaudet]

What a great story that is. Oh, that's new. You didn't tell that last time you were here.

[Will Conaway]

That's a strange story to tell. And one of those ones that you don't know quite what to say. Of all people, you know, to give you a ride. Yeah.

[Ed Gaudet]

Did you talk in the car? Do you remember when you talked?

[Will Conaway]

We did, yeah. We're just shooting the breeze about everything, you know, he's just a pretty normal guy.

[Ed Gaudet]

What an amazing story.

[Will Conaway]

Yeah. Pretty cool.

[Ed Gaudet]

It's like the story, I think it's turned into a book of somebody was hitchhiking in on the Vineyard here, off of the coast of Massachusetts, and Larry David picked them up. So it's like this, this book about the conversation he had with Larry David on the Vineyard. That's fantastic. All right, so what's it like to transition out of the big corporation into the world? Wild world of consulting. What was your first sort of. Aha. Wow. This is different.

[Will Conaway]

You know, Ed, when you work for a large corporation, there's people to help you. And I've often said this. I've been very fortunate over the last, you know, 20ish years to be in senior leadership and executive roles. When you need something done, people kind of jump. It's kind of a nice feeling. You know, if you're never worried about resources, there's always somebody to grab. And when you go into kind of working on your own, so to say, and doing things on your own, your own businesses and helping other people out, you have none of that. And in fact, they don't want any of that. They bring you on because they feel you are the person they need at that point in time. So There is not a lot of raising your hand and asking for help. That includes you kind of find yourself wearing all hats. You're the sales guy, you're the guy who's doing the work, you're the guy writing the proposal. You're the guy talking in front of the customer, you're the person when nobody knows what they're talking about, including yourself somehow you try to just hold it together for 10 minutes until you can figure out what you're talking about. So right. I do miss the large organizations, I must admit. I may think about that at some other point, maybe back to another consultant firm or healthcare organization. But right now I'm doing well and I like it. There's some freedom in it that you don't get to do and I've been very fortunate. Hims has asked me a couple times to speak in Minnesota, so that's been great. I wouldn't be able to do that working for organization where and I've been on a few newscasts once again, I had those issues in places in the past where you know, if you know this, I don't know the people out there. If you ever get asked to be on a news show, they don't give you a three weeks notice. They give you three minutes notice and say hey, would you like to be on when now? And so you have to get approval of that. When you work for a large organization, you miss opportunities. But I will say there is some nice stability working for the large organizations compared to yourself.

[Ed Gaudet]

What are some of the problems that your potential clients could have? So if someone's listening to the podcast and says, well, I'm dealing with this issue, I'm going to reach out to Will.

[Will Conaway]

What are some of those AI strategy? One of the things I find that your AI strategy and your IT strategy are a little different. They need to be separated. I think you're going to start seeing, you're already seeing it in other industries, especially in healthcare. If you will start seeing within the next couple years there will be AI officers at all healthcare organizations. The other thing I find is that if you're going to put things together before you even call anybody to do consultant, there's five things you need to understand what you're going to do, define what you're doing. I typically find that when people call me they don't quite know what AI is. They're just hearing about it or they don't know what consulting is or what anybody could do for them. So be able to define what you want. Second thing is have some Metrics around what you're looking for. I have people that call me all the time with unreasonable, I would say unreasonable thoughts of what AI can do. They're thinking 500 fold. You know, I always hear people, if it's not going to be 30 fold, you know, improvement, we really shouldn't be talking. I ask, well, how many things do you have 30 fold? And when I talk to people in health care, how many things you have that are even twofold, that you've doubled your money? I'm going to guess not many. So the next thing you always have to do is have some history of why you got to where you are today and be honest with you as a company and be honest with the consultant as a company. Hey, we got here because we made some poor decisions. And understand what you want to improve. That's always the key. If you don't know what you're going to improve, why do it? You know, and typically this is more of a healthcare issue, but if I talk to someone in the automotive industry, they're going to tell me immediately, this is about the customer. It's customer focused. We're just getting to that in healthcare, where people are starting to talk about the patient's a large part of their episode of care. They need to be involved. It's all about the patient. And that's really what AI should be able to do for you or any type of improvement program. And then how do you get into a constant state of improvement? Because healthcare organizations running, many of them running below dollar or zero or 2% EBITDA, that's a hard thing to do. You need to be about 3% just to be able to make payroll. And I'm not seeing a lot of organizations there. They're better than they were two years ago. They're better than they were last year. AI is a game changer right now. And if you look at things, I mean, what have we spent? I'm thinking 394 billion. The last time I read in 2025, just on AI. It's not going away. You know, get on board now. Don't be the last person to adopt.

[Ed Gaudet]

Yeah, I love that. That was the theme at Aimed this year in San Diego. We're starting to move from concept to implementation, which is really cool.

[Will Conaway]

Yeah.

[Ed Gaudet]

So I don't ask you to give away all your secrets, but share one or two learnings. That insight that you've seen consulting with people and without giving away any company names or anything like that. But just generally speaking, what are some of the mistakes People are making generally.

[Will Conaway]

I will just say this and this has been going on forever and AI is all admitting this. I'm a lot of AI today because a lot of focus on that. Use your data and your metrics and have them clean. I keep seeing people not they use benchmark of the industry. Use your own data. That's a two for one deal for you too. Typically when I go back and I start looking data, people just assume it's good. It's not. Also, it's a good exercise for any organization to do to go back and understand what all their key metrics are. And I always tell them metrics really are going to do three things for people and I'm really huge into them. One, they tell you where you been, they tell you where you are today, they tell you if you're going to hit things. The other thing I find that is this kind of a industry agnostic and that is people in organizations tend to measure what makes them look good and not what makes them better. Measure the things that will improve you, not just the things that make you look good. And I understand the tremendous pressures on C level people. I mean you, you yourself have been there, I've been there. There's a lot of quarter to quarter going on and you want to make sure that when you go to the board, you're telling the good news or you may not be there next quarter. So I will tell people, be realistic what you're doing. The other thing that I would say that people really need to do is have a vision. I'm not seeing a ton of leadership right now with that vision. The vision points the way for the people that you have. Everybody aboard needs to understand that when we start an IT project, whether it's an EHR project, in the old days I used to tell people, this is not an IT project. This is a business decision that's being made by the organization. Everybody's involved. I will say with AI the exact same thing. These are paradigm shifts in how you've done business. You need to figure out the areas that make most sense to move forward. And if you don't, that's when I really will say bring in a consultant. I can tell people the areas. I can tell you right now, HR is a big deal. Finance is a big deal. Anything you're doing around your contact centers, huge deal. Those are where the real dollars can be quickly done. And I will mention security today and I would be remiss not to if you're not talking to people around security and what needs to be done in AI, with AI and especially in healthcare, you're missing the boat. That is one of the most serious things we have. When you consider the average breach right now is about a $4.4 million issue in all industries. You better have your AI in your program, talking with your CISO and your security program because it's a real deal. And what I just think I read the other day, of her own, becker's was at 33 million patient compromise this year in health care. That's ridiculous. You know it is. And it's not going to get better. And you know when your credit cards worth what, five bucks, your Social Security cards worth $2 and health care record on the black market, anywhere from 250 to 1000 bucks depending on what's on there, they're going to attack. And I hate to say it, health care is probably the weakest of all groups with their security and how they've done things. They're better than they were a couple of years ago, but they need to really lock that down.

[Ed Gaudet]

Sounds like you've got this low hanging fruit AI playbook available.

[Will Conaway]

I do, of course.

[Ed Gaudet]

Which I love.

[Will Conaway]

Right. It's like on it.

[Ed Gaudet]

Yeah. Let's identify these quick wins for the business and then build from there. And I love this notion of applying a vision which again you need because you're going through this transformation process and transformation equals change and people hate change.

[Will Conaway]

It does. And in 2026 we have a lot more trends that are moving forward too. I mean I can already see it. I mean healthcare is moving so fast. I mean agency AI will boom. Domain specific models will boom. I have got AI security on there. When I talk to people, those are all the things that people really need to get done. And you know, in healthcare when some people, they typically just talk about the provider end of things. But there's so much more in healthcare. I mean we have our health life science we have to worry about, you know, we have our payers which are becoming more in contact with the organization, parent provider becoming more of the one group. So there's a lot moving in healthcare that needs to be addressed.

[Ed Gaudet]

Talk to us a little bit about AI governance and specifically committees and your experience and any advice you can give to folks that are thinking about putting one together or maybe have one, but aren't getting, you know, the full results out of it now.

[Will Conaway]

And I'm seeing this everywhere, obviously I'm, I think part of some people that work in similar groups. But I always tell people when you're putting your Committees together. You need to have a wide variety of people. Once again, this is not just an IT thing. I tell people you need to look at how do you define what your governance needs to be? And I'm seeing a lot of this good government says no matter what industry you're in, these are all the same things. I mean, you need to make sure that you're looking at the fairness items. When you're looking at your items. You know, this AI system, it should be, you know, inclusive. It should be accessible. It should not discriminate against individuals, communities or groups. AI should not amplify existing biases. And that's not, you know, it's how it's trained, it's how it's learned. It's not done on purpose. Things can get out of hand. Have you identified the privacy of things? I always tell people AI systems really need and should respect and uphold privacy rights. Especially in healthcare. When you start talking about HIPAA and other items, it should ensure data security, transparency. And that's maybe the toughest part. AI systems should be open and honest. And that's hard to do when you're talking to people. I know you've had to talk to boards. And when you go talk to boards or physicians, talking about black box things can be very difficult. Well, why did it come to this conclusion? You know, there's hallucinations. What is hallucination? Why is that a big deal? I mean, one of the things we need to think about too when we're setting up these governments boards is how much should the board really be involved? We don't always have the right people on there making decisions. We have a lot of people making decisions who are not very familiar with AI, aren't very familiar with technology. So who's accountable? The system should be held accountable, I always say, especially when they make errors that cause harm. But who's accountable? Is it the person who designed it? Is it the people who should have been monitored? So there needs to be a human safety part of this. There needs to be an environmental stability part of this. Moral intelligence needs to be part of it. Trust. That's the thing that I keep saying, nobody's really trusting things enough. And this technology misuse overall, and that doesn't mean that people are doing it on purpose. I mean, we still have a lot of things that we need to lock down. So, you know, if you can get the fairness part, I would say the transparency part, the privacy part, accountability and check, you're on a pretty good, you know, you're ahead of 99% of the people out there doing things.

[Ed Gaudet]

Nice. I also see a lot of folks wrestling with how do you bring the patient in to the committee, either through patient proxy advocacy or otherwise. What are you seeing with that?

[Will Conaway]

Yeah, I'm seeing more of that. And there's no reason why you wouldn't bring patients. And if you look at it, there's probably, you know, if you looked at all the patients that come in, there's a lot of them with a good technology background even understand AI. Why not bring people who have been part of, you know, going through the episode of care, and what do they need? I'm a big fan of surveys and not a big fan of surveys. I continually fight. I know that's a big, big surprise. You know, I continually find that people who fill out surveys are people who are most upset. And so you make changes sometimes to things that don't need to be made. People who normally go through their episode of care within healthcare especially, they don't say much. It's like any survey, if things went well, you don't really feel the need to sit down for 30 minutes and fill something out. But if you're upset, anger channels a lot of activity. And so companies, a lot of times make. In healthcare organizations make a lot of things, decisions that are probably poor. The other thing, I find that when you talk about the patient, the family often is more involved in the patient's care than the patient. They're often the ones that are listening to the nurse, have the instructions, know what needs to be said, understand things. Because, you know, a lot of times as you go through the system, if you're not feeling well, it's a serious episode of care. You probably weren't in your best state of mind or concentrating on things. It's the family sometimes we might want to bring into these things. And I found finding some more progressive organizations bringing in family members of people who went through the system. And they seem to have really solid insights of what they saw. They saw more holistically than the patient who was just, am I going to live through this?

[Ed Gaudet]

Yeah, no, that's really good advice. You don't have a book underway, do you?

[Will Conaway]

Oh, I might.

[Ed Gaudet]

Yeah.

[Will Conaway]

You know.

[Ed Gaudet]

Can you hold it up again?

[Will Conaway]

I can, yeah.

[Ed Gaudet]

There it is. Check this book out. The AI Universe. When was it published? Recently, right?

[Will Conaway]

It was recently. You're right. It came out October 31st, which I don't know what that says. I like to tell people more. November 1st. I think that sounds better in October 31st where you. Sounds like The Washington Post trying to hide something, you know, and no, it's fine. But it's not a trick, it's the tree. It is true. So, yes, it was part of a group that did the trick. Oh, it's too funny. So, yeah, you know, I've been kind of joking about this. But it did hit number one, which is kind of funny. And you know, we. There's different categories. And so it did hit number one in the US and France, of all things. And I will stick by it. I will say it would still be number one if it wouldn't be for that smithing wizard From Cabot Cove, J.B. fletcher, who just came out with a book and knocked me out.

[Ed Gaudet]

But where can they find it?

[Will Conaway]

Amazon. You can find it on Amazon. And I did have to say I did post something about I'm gonna hit number one in France. I thought that. Justin, it's a Spinal Tap, you know, it just sounds like something that you just hear them saying, we're number one in France. So I don't know, it just doesn't sound right.

[Ed Gaudet]

That's fantastic. So I have a Spinal Tap story. Since you brought them up. I don't know if you can see.

[Will Conaway]

This, but love it.

[Ed Gaudet]

Yeah, that's me with Spinal Tap.

[Will Conaway]

Oh, too funny.

[Ed Gaudet]

2001, we threw an event at Java 1 and we hired Spinal Tap and they're back with their sequel. Right. Did you see it?

[Will Conaway]

I have not seen it. I gotta go do that. I really want to see it. It's just the first episode. It's just so good.

[Ed Gaudet]

Yeah, so good. Legendary. Like.

[Will Conaway]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Ed Gaudet]

You know, when we think about AI, what do you think the worst case scenario is? In five years with AI, nobody has a job. Okay, so you are. Okay, good.

[Will Conaway]

So you do have people.

[Ed Gaudet]

You have a doomsday view of it.

[Will Conaway]

Okay. I think you have to. I made a comment that, you know, people are worried about an asteroid hitting the earth and that's going to be the end of things. Maybe it could be AI, Maybe that's in how we do things.

[Ed Gaudet]

Asteroid begins with a.

[Will Conaway]

It does. It really could be that has an I in it. I don't know. You know, it does worry me a little bit. I think that I got another book plug that right now coming out in a few months. I'm working on with a group and talking more about the faith based parts of things. I'm not overly spiritual person, but I try to be somewhat.

[Ed Gaudet]

Yeah, but kind of talking about that. Tell me about your faith a little bit. If you don't mind sharing?

[Will Conaway]

Well, yeah, you know I married a Catholic woman. She got me on the straight narrow. I guess I will say so. I'm moving that way. But you know, I'm a believer that there has to be something greater than us.

[Ed Gaudet]

Nice.

[Will Conaway]

Yeah. I think there is something out there that we all should respect and you know, kind of go towards. So I, I, I do believe in that. I think AI I think it just kind of depends on where it goes from this point. It could change everything. I think it's going to totally over the next year or so we're gonna, it's changing the way it's paradigm shift in how leaders need to view things. For one thing it's also a paradigm shift in how we're gonna be looking at technology. It's gonna change quantum physics and quantum computing, although I should just say quantum computing, not really physics so much part of it, that part of it. But the other thing, I think we're gonna see a nuclear part get brought in. There's no way the data centers we can have can agree. I think people are just going to flip out. They always do. And that gets brought up. I mean we're going to have three mile islands everywhere. You know, we're going to need them. Hate to say it and I'm not saying.

[Ed Gaudet]

Yeah, no, I actually I'm a nuclear fan though.

[Will Conaway]

I'm a nuclear fan. I really am.

[Ed Gaudet]

I'm a technology fan and I think that we lost focus on that energy.

[Will Conaway]

Yeah.

[Ed Gaudet]

And now we're going to bring focus to it like anything else. With focus comes innovation and so we may with the focus eliminate all the issues we've had.

[Will Conaway]

I believe so with the current state of nuclear power and it makes sense. It's the one thing we have that makes sense. I mean you're not going to get enough solar to probably generate this or you're not going to get enough wind. Nuclear may be the way it's going to burn a lot of energy. It's already doing it. I also believe that, you know, you look at things in the World Economic Forum, they're seeing an increase in jobs over the next few years. They're thinking, you know, there's going to be 92,000 jobs lost. But 193 generator or 193 million generator. Yeah, yeah. Or why over the next five years. So there's a possibility in that. So I mean I think companies need to be doing it now though. I think those who wait will be knocked out of the competition. It's just that simple. I mean I use it every day now for everything. How do you use it?

[Ed Gaudet]

Because this is also another interesting. Yeah, I love this question because I hear different perspectives on how people use it.

[Will Conaway]

You know, I have actually been using it for ideas. I do a lot of writing, obviously, through the university and articles at Forbes and such. And the book. Did I mention the book? Yeah, I took up smoking, too, for me, and I get the pipe out. Got to look the part, you know, that's great. But no, we really need to focus in and accept this because organizations who do not do this, it's just such a tremendous disadvantage. I'm using it day to day right now through the university. I'm writing feedback to people's papers all the time. I'm actually sometimes now running out of ideas. You know, you have 30 students in a class. You read 40 papers that are 50.

[Ed Gaudet]

Yeah.

[Will Conaway]

Pages each. And I'm not beyond, you know, writing on my ideas and say, what did I miss here? What am I missing? And, you know, I'm teaching. It's a thought partner.

[Ed Gaudet]

It's a good thought.

[Will Conaway]

Yeah, yeah. Comes up with ideas. And I. Yeah, I've also used it on some music things. You know, I've. It's been kind of interesting. I mean, you can write some songs. I've done some advertisement with it from the organization. I have my own avatar, which looks just like me. I like that. I know my wife seems to like him better, and my brother says that, you know, they don't need me anymore. They actually asked me to bring the avatar over for Thanksgiving. I'm a little worried now, but, yeah.

[Ed Gaudet]

Will Conway without all the problems.

[Will Conaway]

There you go. All the baggage.

[Ed Gaudet]

Yeah, I think I need one of those, too.

[Will Conaway]

Oh, I'm telling you, it gets you out of trouble. It really does. If it could take down the trash, I'd be all for it, but no, I've used it for the advertisement. I have my AI series that I put out, you know, weekly, monthly, depending on my time, talking about different things that going on in AI. But it's my avatar and I brought it up. And people don't seem to know that. They still, like, oh, you look really good in that video. I'm like, yeah, that's not me. Right.

[Ed Gaudet]

LinkedIn newsletter? You have a LinkedIn newsletter?

[Will Conaway]

I do not. I have not done that. I. I've thought about that, but I've been lazy, I guess, on that one. Just haven't found a time.

[Ed Gaudet]

You're doing a lot.

[Will Conaway]

We all do, though.

[Ed Gaudet]

We all do do it a lot. Have you Ever thought about applying it to bring back people that have passed away in your life?

[Will Conaway]

You know, it's interesting. I've saw something on the WI fi about some of that and it's a little eerie where people bring back pictures. I've seen that. Here's my, my grandmother, you know, and she's talking with. All of a sudden. Yeah, yeah.

[Ed Gaudet]

It's kind of cool.

[Will Conaway]

You know, that's a.

[Ed Gaudet]

No, I mean, actually bring like you've created a Persona yourself.

[Will Conaway]

You could play God. That was part of the faith based thing. I've been. Wasn't going to get into it, but maybe I, I will. Now you're. You're pulling it out of me. One of the things I was thinking about, you know, you are a creator. You could create life. You could create people who have already been here. You could create new life. Very Star Trek. I mean, it kind of reminds me of that episode of Star Trek with Captain Kurt. Was it Nomad who thought he was the creator? You know, there are some things out there that it really makes you wonder. I mean, yeah, can we play God with AI? And I think at some point maybe we can. And that's kind of scary. Yeah.

[Ed Gaudet]

Do you know your Latin? Was it God in the machine or.

[Will Conaway]

No, No, I do not.

[Ed Gaudet]

Yeah, I wonder. Finally we have God in the machine.

[Will Conaway]

It's possible. It is possible.

[Ed Gaudet]

Or something that. Yeah, it's a scary time. And it's also a really exciting.

[Will Conaway]

Exciting. Yeah.

[Ed Gaudet]

Have you read Dark Aeonia?

[Will Conaway]

I have not. I've had a couple of people ask me. I gotta get around to that.

[Ed Gaudet]

That'll inform. Inform your fears.

[Will Conaway]

Well, I mean, it's like anything. I mean, there's gonna be some military aspects of it. I mean, it's like nuclear. We were just talking about. I mean, you can run the world with it and, you know, clean energy or you can turn it into weapon grade. I mean, what are we gonna do? I mean, it's just how it's used. Nothing's inherently bad by itself. It's how people use it.

[Ed Gaudet]

Right. All right, let's get personal. What's going on in your life? Any new updates?

[Will Conaway]

Updates? Well, a cat. That'll surprise everybody.

[Ed Gaudet]

What's your cat's name?

[Will Conaway]

Yeah, this is funny. We've had two cat episodes since last time we talked. We had a stray cat show up and we found out that it was a Bengal cat, which is basically a Asian leopard. And it showed up and it was an F1, which meant that it hadn't had any breeding. So of course it Was cute as can be. And my wife fell in love with it. And it was just a terror around the house. Bit us and shredded things. And we found a home for the cat real quickly, you know, it was.

[Ed Gaudet]

It needed to go a new continent.

[Will Conaway]

I know it was pretty vicious cat. And then like a week after that, my wife's in here, is still about the cat. You know, she, you know, lost her child, so to say she felt. And then we had a tuxedo cat that just opened the door one day and walked in and never left. And it still here.

[Ed Gaudet]

Nice.

[Will Conaway]

Very friendly cat. My wife called it Tommy because it looked like Tom from Tom and Jerry. And it has that same type of look. Good cat, no problem. I'm not really a have a pet indoor type person, but, you know, it's working out so far.

[Ed Gaudet]

Cats are cool. They're almost like people. They sort of do their thing and they do.

[Will Conaway]

I like that about them.

[Ed Gaudet]

Dogs are very needy. Yeah, I'm a dog guy. Cats freak me out for other reasons.

[Will Conaway]

They stare at you at night. You wake up and you're like, oh, I know.

[Ed Gaudet]

I've had that happen when they're like.

[Will Conaway]

Over you, like, yeah. What are you thinking? It can't be good.

[Ed Gaudet]

Yeah. Am I having a night trauma or dream or what's going.

[Will Conaway]

What kind of dog do you have? I gotta ask now.

[Ed Gaudet]

Well, we have three dogs right now. We have a mini schnauzer who is. He acts like he's the owner of the house. We have a dachshund poodle who looks very cute, but he's probably the most deceiving little dog of the. He's smart as hell. Anybody looks like, oh, I'm just a cute little fluff ball. But he's like, scheming. He's always scheming. And then the best dog of the group. I hope my kids don't listen to this. The best. The best dog of the group is Ace, and he is a Akita husky with a beautiful brindle coat. And I literally can feed him like this. And he doesn't. He just nibbles. If I did that with the schnauzer, I'd lose my forearm. Like, the schnauzer is like, yeah, terror. So, yeah, that's what we got going here right now. You know, we'll see next year what next year brings.

[Will Conaway]

But there's always next year. And I guess the only other thing I really have going on right now is that besides work, I'm still. I tell people this after all these years. I'm still trying to learn to play guitar, which.

[Ed Gaudet]

Yeah.

[Will Conaway]

You know, and every time I think I'm getting good, I see someone who is good and then I realize that I'm not good. I need to improve. So it's still doing that. And I built a guitar, stretch style guitar because, you know, built like a Gibson style where you have to do all the gluing and wood carving. I never get to that level. But they put together a Strat style guitar and it's pretty foam green. What color? No, I did it out of MGT Body, if anybody's familiar with that company out of California. So everything's USA made kind of oddly nice. And Ricardo neck. And it's kind of a sunburst more of like you would expect to see on a guitar. Yeah. Because it's like the dark brown into the yellow like you would see in the early 50s or I should say like the early 54 and 55s that had that weird color.

[Ed Gaudet]

Like Buddy Holly.

[Will Conaway]

Did he play a Strat? He played Strat. He played a Strat. Yeah. So I did that. It came out. It didn't take that long. All the parts fit together pretty nicely. I have to say. It's one nice thing about a Strat.

[Ed Gaudet]

Nice.

[Will Conaway]

So did that. And you know, just fumbling through songs still, you know, I guess I'll be doing that the rest of my life.

[Ed Gaudet]

What song do you know and what song do you wish you knew?

[Will Conaway]

Oh, what song? I know hundreds of songs. There's some plan over the years and what's the hardest?

[Ed Gaudet]

What's the most difficult song you ought to play?

[Will Conaway]

Oh, boy. You know, there's a couple ingrained Malenstein songs that I figured out like Dark Star and a couple of those when I was younger and still could fumble through it. And a lot of progressive rock that I've always been involved in that.

[Ed Gaudet]

And so, yeah, like Marillion and Yes.

[Will Conaway]

And yeah, a lot of yes. Yeah, I can play a lot of yes. You know, fragile and those who allow them.

[Ed Gaudet]

Well, that's amazing. Like, that's huge.

[Will Conaway]

I actually, when I was a kid, it was funny. All the kids when I was growing up, you know, everybody's playing the heavy metal guitar. And I have some of those now. But at the time I. My Neighbor had a 175 Gibson and that's what Steve Howell played. And it's like a jazz guitar like you expect to see, you know, Joe Passplay or somebody or Jim hall. You know, it's like this big, huge guitar. I thought, oh, that's neat. And he had it for sale and that's what I ended up playing. So immediately the first thing I did is who plays one of these in rock, you know, And Steve how he has played one. So I immediately took a shine to Steve how and always have. He's just an amazing, amazing player.

[Ed Gaudet]

And Starship Trooper. What a great.

[Will Conaway]

Can play all that roundabout and all those. Yeah, that's so diff.

[Ed Gaudet]

So you're an excellent guitarist.

[Will Conaway]

I wouldn't go that far. I mean, I did it professionally for years and I played in the studios out in LA for a while. I played on a lot of albums, you know, lots of albums. But I will say really nothing famous. Famous, yeah. But you know, what's the most famous.

[Ed Gaudet]

Album you played on?

[Will Conaway]

I got opportunity one time to play on an Anthrax album where I. I just did like a song and it wasn't that they couldn't do it. I was just invited in because they wanted to do it faster. And they were sure on some cash, you know. And I was on tons of albums. I was that guy that would go in at 3 o' clock in the morning and you know, Studio City or North Hollywood to play on someone's album because they would just. I hate to say it, they just weren't that good. And I could go on and play a tight and two or three takes and be out of there and everybody's saving money but, you know, nothing really famous, you know. I was another of Sabotage, a group that got the flavor from Florida, I remember. Yeah, their guitar player was sick at the time or something. I got to come and play on a song and it was like. It was pretty cool stuff.

[Ed Gaudet]

Yeah, some people don't. I mean most people don't know that. Jimmy Page of Zeppelin, he was a session player. He started off as a session play. Played on so many great songs. Yeah, people don't realize like that session work is so critical.

[Will Conaway]

Well, I appreciate the comparison to Jimmy Page. I mean. Well, I think it's the first time that's ever happened.

[Ed Gaudet]

I didn't quite go there. But I will ask you, what's your favorite Zeppelin album?

[Will Conaway]

You know, that's a tough one. And you know, I think like everybody, it's got to be like Zeppelin 1. I love that album. It just exploded things for you. When you hear Communication Breakdown right from the start, that kills you. Zeppelin 2. I mean everybody would probably pick that. And then, you know, then there's a song that I think were just changed everything in an album. That's not a very Popular Presence. I love Achilles Last Stand. That is my favorite. Oh, my God.

[Ed Gaudet]

I was just going to ask you. Presence is one of my favorite albums, and here's why. It is so contemporary. That guitar, it's so almost. Oh, my God. Candy Store Rock.

[Will Conaway]

Nobody's fault. Yeah.

[Ed Gaudet]

Nobody's fault but my.

[Will Conaway]

Yeah.

[Ed Gaudet]

Oh, Will, man, moved up, man.

[Will Conaway]

You moved up huge.

[Ed Gaudet]

That's why I asked. That's why I asked you the question. Because I thought, okay, if he says Presence, like, I'm going to give him one of these virtual hug right here.

[Will Conaway]

Oh, yeah.

[Ed Gaudet]

I mean, so good.

[Will Conaway]

Yeah.

[Ed Gaudet]

Everyone says four. Everyone says, you know, three, four, Graffiti. Nobody says Presence.

[Will Conaway]

Nobody says, yeah, I like four. I mean, obviously it's got the big songs on it, but I just heard it so much and.

[Ed Gaudet]

Yeah, me too. Me too.

[Will Conaway]

Yeah. But President's just one of the. I remember the first time I was a kid and I just heard Kelly's Last Stand, I was just like, whoa. I wasn't expecting to hear that. I mean, it's. That is like the modern, like, you know, it's like Iron Maiden, Hot Tilt or something.

[Ed Gaudet]

And everyone talks about Cashmere. Cashmere is a great song, don't get me wrong. But like, Achilles Last is like. It's so futuristic and still today, so fresh. I mean, you listen to it and. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've heard it live, too, and it's incredible.

[Will Conaway]

I saw the video. He's got the blue shirt and the white pants on, and boy, Jimmy Rich is sweating to death. He looks like. And it looks pretty cold there. I don't think he was in good shape at that time, but the parents. Sounds just incredible when you watch him. Just so tight.

[Ed Gaudet]

Awesome. I was not expecting that. All right, so a couple of lightning round questions. If you go back in time. I didn't ask you this last time.

[Will Conaway]

But I'll ask you this.

[Ed Gaudet]

I have some new ones up my sleeve. Go back in time and change one decision you made. What would it be?

[Will Conaway]

Back in time and change one decision. I hate to answer those type of questions because there's probably a lot of them. There's some. You know, I actually believe I would have. By one thing, I would have changed. I probably would have stayed in college and got my master's degree. Why? Right after my undergraduate. But I was so excited to get out of Kansas to go to Los Angeles that I literally left the next day. But that. And I also believe I'll give you two today because I believe it's worth two. It's a Friday, boy. I'LL be reminiscing the night and be drinking probably here soon. I can't believe you asked me that. You know, I think I'd given the music a little more time. We were doing well. We had things going. I was making money at it. And then it just stopped making money at it. Like everybody, you know, and grunge it. When grunge it, we were. I mean, we look like dinosaurs out there playing. Nobody wanted to hear that music, you know. But I think we'll give it some more time. It would have been fine. I gotta tell myself that I like that.

[Ed Gaudet]

No. Okay. Two things on your bucket list.

[Will Conaway]

Two things in my bucket list. That's a good question. I try not to think about that inevitable question. You know, it's interesting. I've never had any desire to climb a mountain. I always hear people say something like that. Yeah, I may have to fault on this one. Two things in the bucket list.

[Ed Gaudet]

One thing on your bucket list.

[Will Conaway]

Yeah. I'd really like to go outside the US A little more on travel in a place I have never seen is France. I would love to go to France. And I'd also like to go to England. Those two places. One reason, England. I will say I probably more so. I'd love to go to London and just see like Abbey Road, see where the Beatles recorded. I like to see where Led Zeppelin started. Who. You know, just. I mean, all those bands are all from. I just like to see. What does that look like. Love to be able to walk through Emmy Road Studio just for a minute. And it's like, I can't believe it's been France.

[Ed Gaudet]

Dude, that's.

[Will Conaway]

I've never been to France. Yeah.

[Ed Gaudet]

Where have you been that you'll like? What was your favorite place?

[Will Conaway]

No, I love going to Canada. I know that sounds odd. Even though the last three times I was there, I got pulled out of the line. I love going to British. I got to pull out a line. I even knew my name last time. And everybody I was with was staring at me like, are you in trouble? And they go, you guys can go ahead. I think I may be a while. Three hours later, I show up. Yeah, they went through every bag I had. And yeah, as a British Columbia, Vancouver, just. It's so different than what you would think. Yeah. I mean, it's like going down Rodeo. Yeah, it's like going down Rodeo Drive. You know, you go down there, it's like, you know, you got the Rolex stores, the IWC stores, the Tiffany stores. Like, wow. Wasn't expecting to See that in Vancouver.

[Ed Gaudet]

Yeah.

[Will Conaway]

We had a client.

[Ed Gaudet]

La. It's like LA used to be.

[Will Conaway]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Last time I was there, we actually had a client that we had tell us we need to go lunch and took us to a four star Michelin restaurant. And needless to say, that was like. Explain that one on your expense report. Exactly.

[Ed Gaudet]

What did you eat?

[Will Conaway]

Do you remember? See, I. I ate celery and water. I mean, I was telling everybody. I was actually giving everybody around me the dirty look. Like, don't you order anything? The soup will do you fine. You know, I even asked the waitress. I'll be honest, I got up and I walked to the bathroom and I saw the waitress. I go, hey, everybody's sitting on this side of the table. You just point at something that's cheap. Them over there, they can eat what they want. But my people over here. And she did it too. She walked over, she's like. And they go. I think she would be like, no, you have not. That's great. That's funny.

[Ed Gaudet]

All right. Okay. So at the Amsterdam, I have not.

[Will Conaway]

That. That would be pretty cool. I know a lot of people that. That said, I just have to be there. Yeah.

[Ed Gaudet]

I can't believe we're already 45 minutes into always a play.

[Will Conaway]

We can talk for hours.

[Ed Gaudet]

We'll have to do a part three.

[Will Conaway]

We'll have to do one just on music and stuff. We can just.

[Ed Gaudet]

Yeah, I love that. Yeah, let's do that. Let's plan for that. We're here with Will Conway. This is Edgar, dead from the Risk Never Sleeps podcast. If you're on the front lines protecting patient safety and delivering patient care, remember to stay vigilant because Risk never sleeps. Thanks for listening to Risk Never Sleeps. For the show, notes, resources and more information and how to transform the protection of patient safety, Visit [e-mail] that's C-E N S I N-E-T.com. i'm your host, Ed Gaudet. And until next time, stay vigilant because Risk never sleeps.