Episode #192. What It Takes To Turn Nature-Inspired Molecules Into Real Medicines, with Caitlyn Krebs, Co-founder & CEO of Nalu Bio

Summary

Podcast Summary: Risk Never Sleeps, Episode #192

Title: What It Takes To Turn Nature-Inspired Molecules Into Real Medicines
Host: Ed Gaudet
Guest: Caitlyn Krebs, Co-founder & CEO of Nalu Bio
Date: January 20, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode features Caitlyn Krebs, Co-founder and CEO of Nalu Bio, a company developing nature-inspired, non-addictive therapeutics for pain, inflammation, and particularly women’s health issues such as endometriosis. The conversation dives into how advances like AI-driven drug discovery are being harnessed to turn naturally inspired molecules into medicines that may improve patient safety and address underserved medical needs.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Origins and Mission of Nalu Bio

• Nalu Bio’s Focus:

  • Developing non-addictive, non-hormonal therapeutics for pain, inflammation, and women’s health conditions, specifically endometriosis.
  • Leveraging the endocannabinoid system (ECS), a body-wide receptor network involved in maintaining homeostasis.
  • Using AI and generative chemistry to design safer, more efficacious molecules inspired by natural cannabinoids.
  • [03:37] Caitlyn: “We’re developing non-addictive, non-hormonal therapeutics for pain, inflammation, and in women’s health and a condition called endometriosis.”

• Company Name:

  • “Nalu” means “wave” or “go with the flow” in Hawaiian, reflecting both Caitlyn’s roots and their focus on biological balance.
  • [02:02] Caitlyn: “‘Nalu’ means either it’s a wave or go with the flow. Since we are focused on the endocannabinoid system and homeostasis… I thought it was very fitting.”

2. Understanding the Endocannabinoid System (ECS)

• The ECS consists of receptors in the body that natural and plant-derived cannabinoids can bind to, modulating pain, mood, and inflammation.
• The body makes its own cannabinoids (e.g., anandamide, meaning “bliss” in Sanskrit).
  • [02:34] Caitlyn: “Body actually makes two internal cannabinoids… one is called anandamide… it makes you happy. This is a system that keeps you happy and healthy.”

3. Innovation in Drug Development

• Technological Approach:

  • AI-driven generative chemistry platform predicts new chemical entities likely to succeed as medicines.
  • These molecules, although inspired by nature, are improved via chemistry for better potency and absorption.
  • [06:59] Caitlyn: “We’ve done this all through AI as well… The AI changes the chemistry to make them better drugs so that they bind better to the receptors, you absorb them in your body better…”

• Current Progress:

  • Preclinical stage, preparing for FDA IND (Investigational New Drug Application).
  • Early data shows designed molecules can match or surpass opioids and NSAIDs in pain control and reduce endometriosis lesions in animal models.
  • [04:44] Caitlyn: “Preclinical results so far have shown they’re as good as opioids, are therapeutics as good as NSAIDs… In endometriosis you have these lesions… and they shrink the lesions. So this would be a first-in-class, game-changing therapeutic.”

• Disease Modifying Potential:

  • Compounds may not only relieve symptoms but also alter disease progression by shrinking lesions; potential to be used preventatively after surgery in endometriosis.
  • [08:13] Caitlyn: “…our compounds have shown to be disease modifying, where they shrink the lesions, so you could take them as a preventative solution.”

4. The Broader Promise of the ECS

• Comparison to GLP1 Drugs:
  • Caitlyn predicts ECS-targeted drugs could be as significant as GLP1 analogues, which transformed treating diabetes and obesity.
  • ECS receptors are widespread, giving rise to a “pipeline” of other therapeutic opportunities.
  • [08:58] Caitlyn: “The endocannabinoid system is really as big as GLP1s… It’s everywhere in your body, and has so many different therapeutic potential opportunities.”

5. Partnerships and Technology

• Leveraging Nvidia’s Inception program and Eli Lilly’s Tune Labs for advanced AI and drug safety tools.

  • [16:17] Caitlyn: “We’re part of [Nvidia’s] inception program… and also recently joined Lilly… providing access to their machine learning and AI tools.”

• Molecules are “nature-inspired but chemically improved,” aiming to outperform existing CBD-based supplements.

  • [17:10] Caitlyn: “The naturally occurring cannabinoids like CBD, they’re actually terrible drugs… So we are improving on nature.”

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Personal & Leadership Insights

6. Caitlyn’s Background and Motivation

• Biotech/life sciences veteran with experience in diabetes, Alzheimer’s prevention, cancer genomics.
• Drawn to endometriosis due to difficult patient journeys and lack of effective solutions.
  • [14:20] Caitlyn: “…between Hawaii and growing up in nature and appreciating science… I went to Brown and studied biology… wanting to help women.”

7. Advice on Networking and Career

• The value of building deep professional relationships and partnerships as the foundation of long-term career success.

  • [17:43] Caitlyn: “Building deep relationships, partnerships, ultimately building out your network is probably the most valuable thing you can do.”

• Recommends new graduates learn the science and also appreciate the business side of biotech; passion and mission are key.

  • [27:12] Caitlyn: “As someone coming out of college… really appreciating the science but also learning the business side as well… find an area that you’re really passionate about…”

8. Risk-Taking and Personal Growth

• Riskiest move: starting a company (“It is challenging. It is very risky. I would do it all over again.”) [20:23]
• Physical activities: swims in cold San Francisco Bay sans wetsuit (“I swam in the bay this morning. 56 degrees…”) [20:40]
• Importance of vulnerability and trust (“…to build trust you have to disclose information… I try to practice that…”) [19:16]

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Memorable Quotes

• On Women’s Health and Therapeutic Impact

  “There’s 200 million women worldwide, like your daughters, who suffer from endometriosis. We’re developing therapeutics that bind to these receptors in your body… and our results have been really promising.”
  —Caitlyn {[04:35]}

• On Drug Discovery and AI

  “This model has created this new chemical entity much faster, much more cost effective, and so far in animals is very effective.”
  —Caitlyn {[07:25]}

• On Building a Company

  “The riskiest thing I’ve ever done is start a company… It is very risky. I would do it all over again.”
  —Caitlyn {[20:23]}

• On Networking:

  “Building deep relationships, partnerships, ultimately building out your network is probably the most valuable thing you can do.”
  —Caitlyn {[17:43]}

• On Passion and Mission:

  “If you can find a product, a space—like for me, women’s health and endometriosis—find an area that you’re really passionate about… biotech life sciences is a marathon. It is not a sprint.”
  —Caitlyn {[28:23]}

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Notable Moments and Timestamps

• [02:02] — Caitlyn explains the meaning behind "Nalu"
• [04:44] — Promise of ECS-targeted drugs for endometriosis
• [06:59] — How AI is used in Nalu Bio’s drug development
• [08:58] — Comparing ECS therapeutics to GLP1s (blockbuster drug class)
• [14:20] — Discussing the impact of endometriosis and personal drive
• [16:17] — Partnerships with Nvidia and Eli Lilly
• [17:43] — Leadership lesson: networking and relationships
• [20:23] — Risks of founding a biotech startup
• [27:12] — Advice for young people entering biotech

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Podcast Tone

The episode is warm, casual, and conversational, with frequent personal anecdotes from Caitlyn and a sense of friendly rapport between host and guest. The conversation blends technical insights with approachable explanations, making complex drug discovery topics accessible.

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Further Information

• Nalu Bio Website: nalubio.com
• References: Nalu Bio, Nvidia Inception, Eli Lilly Tune Labs

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This episode offers a compelling look at how biotech innovation, AI, and personal leadership intersect in the quest to create safer, more effective medicines inspired by nature, particularly for conditions that have long lacked adequate therapies.

Transcript

[A]

Foreign.

[B]

Welcome to Risk Never Sleeps, where we meet and get to know the people delivering patient care and protecting patient safety. I'm your host, Ed Gaudet. Welcome to the Risk Never Sleeps podcast in which we learn about the people that are on the front lines protecting patient safety and delivering patient care. I'm Ed Gaudet, the host of our program, and today I am pleased to be joined by Kaitlyn Krebs at NALU Bio, CEO and founder. Co founder.

[A]

CEO and co founder. Yes. Pleasure to be here.

[B]

How was your Thanksgiving?

[A]

It was great. It was full of lots of pie and family. So how about yours?

[B]

Yeah, it was weird. This year we typically host and we. We only had four people, so I guess we're not good hosts. I don't know. But we had plenty of leftovers, which was great until day four. Then it was like, too much.

[A]

So. Any Thanksgiving sandwiches? That's my husband's favorite.

[B]

Oh, you have to make the Thanksgiving with that soft white bun that you only get on Thanksgiving.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Like the Hawaiian buns.

[A]

The Hawaiian rolls. That's right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Delicious.

[B]

There we go. Now, I understand you're from the Big Island.

[A]

I am. I was born and raised on the Big island of Hawaii. Absolutely love it. I'm obviously not Hawaiian, or maybe you can tell, but I'm a haole. Haoli means foreigner in Hawaiian. So how. Born and raised there.

[B]

Okay. Parents in the military or.

[A]

Parents weren't in the military. They were hippies in the 70s who went to visit some family friends, fell in love with it.

[B]

And my type of people, they probably were at the Dead show in 1972. They're probably.

[A]

Yes, for sure. I will.

[B]

Cool. Cool. Yeah. Well, since we brought them up, we got to do a shout out to the Grateful. The old Grateful Dead. There we go.

[A]

There you go.

[B]

All right. So Nalu, what does that mean in Hawaiian?

[A]

So nalu means either it's a wave, it either is a wave or go with the flow. And so since we are focused on the endocannabinoid system and kind of homeostasis and going with the flow, I thought it was very, very fitting.

[B]

Ah, you're going to have to explain that, because all I see is cannabis in that word. So I don't.

[A]

Yeah, no.

[B]

No connection.

[A]

No. Cannabis or the plant binds to this receptor system in your body called the endocannabinoid system.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Body actually makes two internal cannabinoids, and one is called anandamide, and in Sanskrit, that means bliss, so it makes you happy. So this is a system that kind of keeps you Happy and healthy.

[B]

I like this. Can I get on this or not?

[A]

Yeah, absolutely. We're developing therapeutics, pain therapeutics. If you need some pain therapeutics.

[B]

I do. Who doesn't? Who doesn't?

[A]

That's right. That's right. So non opioid. Non opioid, non addictive pill.

[B]

Oral.

[A]

No, an oral formulation. So a pill. Yes.

[B]

Nice.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

I've heard good things about things like this that help old people like myself.

[A]

Yes. Yeah. But you're not old. We're still middle aged, right? I think we're considered middle aged. Yeah.

[B]

In my head, I am. I. I'm still 18 in my head, so.

[A]

Me too. I still think I look like 18.

[B]

Oh, we're going to come back to that. All right, let's start off with sharing a little bit about your current role, your organization with listeners.

[A]

Sure. So as the CEO and co founder of Nalu Bio, we are focused on leveraging this system you probably never heard of called the endocannabinoid system. And so we're developing non addictive, non hormonal therapeutics for pain, inflammation and in women's health and a condition called endometriosis.

[B]

Oh, so my daughters have that.

[A]

Ah, yes. It is a terrible.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Painful. Huge unmet medical need, women. It's a terrible disease. It's awful. So you, as you probably know, your girls, depending on when they were diagnosed, they start off on birth control, then they go to nsaids, they go to opioids. If those don't work, they go to hormonal therapies. And then your, I'm guessing, young women, girls, daughters, they end up in what they call chemical menopause, early menopause in their 20s and 30s on these hormonal therapies. It's terrible.

[B]

Yeah. And of course, we got sucked into this trial with Lupron, so I'm sure you probably are familiar with that and what that can do to people.

[A]

Yeah. The side effects of the therapeutics are not. They're intolerable, I would say. Yeah. And so that's our goal, that's our dream. There's 200 million women worldwide, like you're daughters, who suffer from endometriosis. And we're developing therapeutics that bind to these receptors in your body that are part of the endocannabinoid system. We call it the ecs, the endocannabinoid system. And our results have been really promising. So preclinical results so far have shown they're as good as opioids, are therapeutics as good as NSAIDs. Like an Advil or a Tylenol. And they also, as you may know, in endometriosis you have these lesions that are growing in your abdomen and they shrink the lesions. So this would be a first in class, game changing, therapeutic. If it's as good as opioids, NSAIDs, and actually modified the disease.

[B]

Yeah. Wow, this is exciting. And where are you in the stage of development and bringing to market?

[A]

So we're preclinical. We're preparing for basically an ind, an initial drug application to the FDA and then looking to run our phase one safety studies in men and women actually initially to show. So cannabinoids, the naturally occurring cannabinoids that you're familiar with are very safe. People have been using them for 3,000 years. And so that was really the impetus. And one of my kind of friends, long term mentors reached out to me and we started basically discovering and learning about the endocannabinoid system. And people have been taking cannabinoids for 3,000 years. They're safe, they work for pain, they work for inflammation. So why not make them better? Why not create them through chemistry, make them better drugs and get them out to the world? So that's really our mission is really to solve for large unmet medical needs in women's health and in pain, you.

[B]

Add some type of temporal constraint to make them time lapsed or so it's.

[A]

Most likely, depending on the severity of the pain, a daily pill that you would take, oral formulation of a pill.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

We've done this all through AI as well. So we've developed what we call a generative AI platform. So we feed this platform again, it's a computer model with chemical compounds, new chemical entities that we know bind to these receptors. The AI then changes the chemistry to make them better drugs so that they bind better to the receptors, you absorb them in your body better. And then we actually make them through chemistry and then put them into kind of a traditional drug development. So one of our lead compounds for pain and inflammation is completely generated through AI. So this model has created this new chemical entity much faster, much more cost effective, and so far in animals is very effective.

[B]

And now do you bind them to the T receptor or.

[A]

The receptor is called CB1 and CB2, so two receptors, they're part of the endocannabinoid system. And so we can actually model how these molecules bind to those receptors in your body and select the best ones, prioritize them, and then make them through chemistry.

[B]

Do you think you'll ever inoculate against this.

[A]

Inoculate against endometriosis? Yeah, I would love to, but it's a very complex inflammatory chronic disease. And so to inoculate against something like a chronic disease, it's possible, but very challenging. So our compounds have shown to be disease modifying, where they shrink the lesions, so you could take them as a preventative solution. So a lot of women, I don't know if your daughters have had surgery to remove these lesions, but that is one very standard care. About 50% of women have surgery. And so if they have the lesions removed, you could then take our therapeutics and stop the lesions from growing. It stops the progression of the lesions.

[B]

Interesting.

[A]

Yes. And I believe that the endocannabinoid system is really as big as GLP1s. So GLP1s right. They were made for diabetes, they're effective for obesity. Now they're seeing cardiovascular benefits, we're seeing cognitive benefits. The endocannabinoid system is everywhere in your body, very similar to the GLP1 class and has so many different therapeutic potential opportunities. So that's why I get so excited about it.

[B]

Yeah, And I love the name of the company too. It sort of plays right into that.

[A]

Yes, yes. Yeah. Well, you know, and my roots and my Hawaiian roots. Right.

[B]

Did you pick the name?

[A]

I did, yes. With one of my co founders. Yeah, Randall and I. I have two co founders. Randall and I, he's great at naming and we started thinking about Hawaiian words.

[B]

And that's how over like Szechuan chicken or something.

[A]

We were actually on the phone. I was driving down Embarcadero here in the city and we were ideating and I was like, that's it.

[B]

And you hit the Hyatt and you're like, it's, it's round and that's right.

[A]

In the Giant stadium.

[B]

Oh, the Giant. Stad him. Yeah, yeah. So where are you based? Are you right in the city or.

[A]

We have an office in the Presidio. Yeah, still in the city. City proper. Right near the Golden Gate Bridge.

[B]

Very nice. The Dead played in August. Did you hear them?

[A]

Oh, no.

[B]

At Golden Gate. Yeah.

[A]

No. I have a 10 year old and a 12 year old, so I'm. I'm in pop music land and I'm in country music. So I listen to a lot of the music that my kids listen to.

[B]

Really? They tell us what fans are.

[A]

They're actually not Taylor Swift signs. No, they're not Swifties. They're boys.

[B]

Oh, they're boys. Oh, there's boys that are there. There are boys.

[A]

That are into it. Yeah. But they're more into Morgan Wallen. I don't know if you know. I do.

[B]

Isn't that the guy that threw a chair out of the.

[A]

Yes. He's not the best role model for a young male, but they love his music. Yeah.

[B]

None of these guys. Zach. Brian's another one. Although he's cleaned up, I heard.

[A]

Yep. And Zach Brown, they also like Zach Brown.

[B]

Zach Brown. Zach Brown's pretty good.

[A]

Yeah. Kenny Chesney, you know, they like their country music. I used to hate country music, but they have converted me.

[B]

Country music is good, you know.

[A]

Yeah. Storytelling, it's.

[B]

Right. Sorry. You're close to becoming a Deadhead. Like, it's a nice gateway to the Grateful Dead country.

[A]

That. Could be. Could be.

[B]

So how did you get involved in all this?

[A]

So my background, I've been in biotech and life sciences for the last 20 years. I love being on the frontier of new, basically, technology and biology. So I was at a company focused on prediabetes about 20 years ago. Before people believe prediabetes was a disease, they didn't think it was an issue until you became diabetic.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Then I was at a company, an Alzheimer's prevention company. You can actually prevent Alzheimer's with diet and exercise, which people don't know. There are some large studies to show this. Cancer genomics. So early cancer detection through blood tests, simple blood tests. And my co founder and I, Phyllis, started talking about cbd, the cannabinoid, you know, and uncovered the endocannabinoid system. And I saw this list of potential therapeutic uses for cannabinoids, naturally occurring cannabinoids, and realized if we could take a pharma approach to this and make reliable, scalable therapeutics that target the same system, this could be the next GLP1 category. And so that's what we've done, and that's what we're doing. So I'm a huge believer in the system that most people don't know anything about.

[B]

So that's exciting. And inflammation, you know, certainly is a. It's a silent killer, slow killer of, well, life in general, but just the quality of life.

[A]

It is.

[B]

And I'm sure there's a connection there with Alzheimer's as well.

[A]

Yep, there's definitely an inflammatory component in Alzheimer's. It's an endometriosis. It is really driven by chronic inflammation. Your body, the endocannabinoid system, is meant to keep your body really in homeostasis. So if you have acute pain, it will kind of kick in and help to reduce that pain. Or if you have acute inflammation, it will kick in. But when you have a disease, a chronic inflammatory disease, it's very hard for your body to manage that. So if you can add in compounds into your body that bind to some of those receptors to really support your body's internal system to fight either the pain or the inflammation, we believe that that's the best solution. So that's what we're doing.

[B]

And stuffing and turkey don't count as much.

[A]

I think those are going the other way. Yeah, the stuffing might be going the other way.

[B]

All right. Okay. So, well, interesting background. Where did you go to school?

[A]

I went to Brown University in Rhode Island.

[B]

Oh, are you from East Coast? Oh, no. You. You.

[A]

No, no. I went as far across, you know, as far as I could.

[B]

Did you like Rhode Island?

[A]

I actually really liked. I liked Providence a lot. It's changed a lot since I've been there. But it's a beautiful city. There's a river that runs through it, very quaint. And Brown is up on the hill, so it's. It's really its own little bubble there.

[B]

Yeah, that's right. And there's Newport, of course, which is nice, right?

[A]

Newport is gorgeous. The people are incredible. You know, I really. Between Hawaii and growing up in nature and appreciating science and then going to Brown and studying biology, that's really fostered kind of who I am today in the biotech industry and life sciences and ultimately wanting to help women. I. Endometriosis is a terrible disease, and it's really captured my heart. I mean, the stories of these women. It's unbelievable what these women have suffered through. And there's no good solution today.

[B]

It's awful. And stay away from Lupron. I think I can say that it was all. We had an awful experience.

[A]

Yeah. A lot of these drugs have really terrible side effects, and so, you know, it's the lesser of two evil. So hopefully we can develop something that you can take. So one of the other things that you may or may not know is endometriosis is a leading cause of infertility. So a lot of these women who are also trying to get pregnant can't because of the endometriosis. And so if you can treat the endometriosis, you can help with the infertility. In fact, I was listening to a top endometriosis physician yesterday, and she said, if we could treat the endometriosis when these women are teenagers, the infertility clinics would be out of business.

[B]

Oh really?

[A]

Pcos, endometriosis, all of these things that affect infertility. So we're just catching it. Yes.

[B]

Yeah, no, that, that's great. No, that's really exciting. I saw the words in the description. I was hoping we were going to go there. So I'm excited to talk to my daughters after this call. So, yeah, I'd love to learn more. I'd love to learn more. And is it just nalubio.com?

[A]

Nalubio.Com. That's exactly right, yeah. So we're leveraging the best of technology, using AI to develop these therapeutics. We also use Nvidia, so. Nvidia, I'm sure you're familiar with them.

[B]

Of course, I'm a shareholder.

[A]

Oh, great. Well, we're part of their inception program. So they have a number of software tools to develop chemical entities, therapeutics. And then we also recently, you know, partnerships are really important to us too. We also recently joined Lilly. Eli Lilly has something called Toon Labs where they are providing access to their machine learning and AI tools. So you can actually leverage their tools. They have some, for example, kind of like adverse events. You can look at how toxic your compounds are or not safe they are in their model. So we're excited to be part of both Nvidia's program and Lilly Tunelabs.

[B]

Yeah. Well, yours is based on nature. I mean, I know you make it chemically in the lab, but it's.

[A]

Ours actually were inspired by nature, but we actually change those natural molecules because.

[B]

Oh, you do?

[A]

Oh we do. The naturally occurring cannabinoids like cbd, they're actually terrible. They're poor drugs. Your body doesn't absorb them. You have to take a lot of them to actually get the active effect.

[B]

I can attest to that.

[A]

Yes. Right. So a lot of people complain about cbd. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. So we are improving on nature. So these are completely, kind of inspired by nature. Nice, but completely different.

[B]

Well, I'm looking forward to following you. So let's get a little personal. You can go back in time and tell your 20 year old self one thing. What would it be?

[A]

I would say telling my 20 year old self that building deep relationships, partnerships, ultimately building out your network is probably the most valuable thing you can do.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

My co founder, for example, I've known her for 15 years. She was actually a board member at one of the companies I worked with. Fast forward 10 years, we started a company together. Another gentleman, Tom Patterson, I was actually in AI and ML. More machine learning about 20 years ago at a company called Intellos, we were building mechanistic models of biology and computers. We had virtual patients at the time. Tom is now an advisor to us, to me, at Nalu Bio. And so it's all full circle. It's really about building deep relationships and partnerships that will serve you throughout your life, personally and professionally.

[B]

Well, I love that answer. I think that's a new answer, too, for that question.

[A]

Oh, okay. All right.

[B]

Like an obvious one. I literally. I was telling someone that the other day as they were looking for a job. I said, the most important thing you can do is start building your network now.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

Don't wait. And there's so many tools now. You know, back when we were doing it, you. You literally had to do it the hard way. Go to these mixers and.

[A]

Right. And I, like, take it one step further. You know, really, like the deep relationships. Right. Where you actually know the person and you like them and you want to have a beer with them and you want to spend time with them and you trust them.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's really important. Yeah.

[B]

And trust is so hard to develop, and it's so fragile, isn't Is?

[A]

There's a woman, Carol Robin, she teaches a class at Stanford's business school called Touchy Feely. And it's all about basically building deeper relationships. And to build trust, you have to disclose information. Right. About yourself. And more you disclose, the more you get back. So I try to practice that both in my personal life and professional life as well, with my team members really making sure that they feel comfort in order to disclose. So that you trust each other, to build that trust.

[B]

Yeah. Make yourself vulnerable.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

Put yourself out there.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

Exactly. I've been doing that all my life, and sometimes it works. Oftentimes I always find, too, that there's people that, like, are reticent to share or they actually penalize you for sharing too much. Have you witnessed that or experienced that?

[A]

I have. And I think they're just uncomfortable. I think, you know, I think they're just uncomfortable in their skin.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I agree. I'm okay with over sharers.

[B]

Me too.

[A]

I appreciate that side.

[B]

Oh, good. All right, well, we're gonna go deep with the questions then. What's the riskiest thing you've ever done? This is the Risk Never Sleeps podcast. So I gotta ask you this.

[A]

The riskiest thing I've ever done is start a company. Start. It is. It is challenging. It is very risky. I would do it all over again. And I like to take risks, but I would say it's probably the riskiest thing.

[B]

All right, what about physical? Ride a motorcycle, Jump out of a plane?

[A]

I do like a lot of active sports. I'm very athletic. I do crossfit. I swim in the bay. I swam in the bay this morning. 56 degrees in my bathing suit. No wetsuit, maybe.

[B]

Is that risky?

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

Bump up against the seal and then maybe a great white or something.

[A]

See a lot of seals.

[B]

That's not good. You don't want to see seals.

[A]

I know. I know you don't. I've been seeing any great whites. Not yet, but we're.

[B]

We're actually won't see them, unfortunately, until it's too late.

[A]

That's right. That's right. Yeah. I actually love swimming in the bay. It is really. And interestingly enough, I love to run.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

And, you know, everyone talks about the runner's high, the endorphins that you get, and you feel great. It's actually not endorphins. It's your endocannabinoids. It's anandamide and 2ag that are causing that happy, elated state.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So most people don't know that. So I think about it as I'm running. My endocannabinoid system is kicking in.

[B]

Geez, I wish I'd known that years ago.

[A]

We're all still learning about it.

[B]

I love it. I was gonna say you sound like a child of the hippies.

[A]

I am. I am. I definitely am.

[B]

We're swimming in the bay.

[A]

That's right. That's. So It's a Hawaiian. Hawaiian roots.

[B]

I love it.

[A]

I love. I love nature.

[B]

Yeah. All right. So if you could change one decision you made in your life, what would it be?

[A]

Oh, that's a good one.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Interesting question.

[B]

I've introduced it recently to the podcast. And then people say, oh, I don't regret anything. It's like, well, that's not the question. Like, of course you don't. But you can always go back. It could be anything. Like, somebody said, I put milk in a microwave once. I'll never do that again. Oh, that's fair.

[A]

You know, I had the opportunity to live abroad with my husband before we had kids, and we chose not to. To Singapore. And I wish we had done that. I've never lived abroad, and I. I mean, I could still do it, but I would have gone back and moved to Singapore for a year or two.

[B]

What's the nicest place you've ever visited? Coming from Hawaii, too. This is a big bar.

[A]

But what do you mean by nice?

[B]

Well, like, for you, whatever nice means to you. Like the place that you love the most, that's not home. Where you've traveled to.

[A]

That's a hard question for me.

[B]

That must mean you travel a lot or you don't have a lot. I do.

[A]

I do. No, I do. I travel quite a bit. We're going to India, actually, this Christmas with my family.

[B]

Of course you are.

[A]

So. So I'm excited about that.

[B]

Where, though, because.

[A]

Yeah. So we're going to Delhi.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Jaipur. And then we're gonna go see the Taj Mahal.

[B]

Oh, okay. Because there's a hippie commune in India.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

No, I'm not gonna do Goya. I think it's called.

[A]

It's called. It starts with a G. You're close.

[B]

G, A, O, I think. Or.

[A]

Or Agoa. Yes. No, I've heard great things about Goa, India. The beaches are supposed to be really nice.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I have to say, I've traveled to many beaches, and Hawaii still has the most beautiful beaches.

[B]

Really?

[A]

I believe. Yes. White sand, warm water, clear. You can snorkel, like, six hours. Six hours? Yeah. Six hours to home. We do. We go back once a year, have a family reunion. I still have a bunch of family members there with their kids and little kids, so it's really nice.

[B]

Beautiful. Yeah.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah. But you live in San Francisco. That's my favorite city in the world.

[A]

Yeah. San Francisco is the Bay Area in general, Right?

[B]

North beach, city lights.

[A]

Yes. Yes.

[B]

Do you ever go to Specs?

[A]

No. Where's Specs?

[B]

Oh, all right. I get to teach you something.

[A]

I don't think I know Specs.

[B]

Specs is a little dive bar. So you know Vesuvio? Probably.

[A]

I know Vesuvio, yeah.

[B]

Across the street, down an alley, is a little bar called Specs, and it's where all the. Everyone says all the poets hung out in Vesuvio. Actually, all the poets really hung out in Specs. Oh, yeah. Quite the experience. Utah. You ever go to the Hotel Utah?

[A]

Yep. No. Hotel Utah. Okay. Have you ever been to the Final. Final bar? It was the final bar before coming back into the Presidio, so you couldn't drink anymore, so it was like the last stop.

[B]

No, I think I've heard of that, though.

[A]

Yeah. From the final. Final. Very traditional.

[B]

Bottom of the hill. Bottom of the bottom of the hill.

[A]

Been there.

[B]

Y. Yeah. Good bands. See some good bands there. All right. You're on a desert island. You could bring five records with You. What would they be?

[A]

Oh, five records. Okay. I think I would be bringing some Morgan Wallen right now.

[B]

Oh, no. Okay. I think.

[A]

I think I would. I also like Cyndi Lauper, back to my, you know, 80s.

[B]

Did you see her recently on TV? She had like. Oh, yeah, she looks special. It was incredible. She's incredible.

[A]

Oh, she's incredible. Yeah, she's incredible. I also, you know, my Hawaiian roots. I like a lot of reggae. Bob Marley. I'd bring some reggae.

[B]

Oh, all right.

[A]

For sure.

[B]

I'll be on your island. I love Bob.

[A]

All right. All right, let's see. What else would I bring? I might bring some more pop, some Imagine Dragons, some more current.

[B]

Now you're showing your age.

[A]

That's right. That's right. I've got a mix. Cindy Lapper to Imagine Dragons.

[B]

How about Clay Stray something or other. I forget the name of it. My daughter's gonna kill me. Clay Stray. Oh, do you know that?

[A]

I don't know that, no.

[B]

Red Clay Stray, I think it's called.

[A]

No. Okay. I'm not that.

[B]

I can't believe I'm doing this. No, you will like them. You will like them. Damn it. Red Clay Strays.

[A]

Red Clay straight. No, I don't know the Spanish.

[B]

Check them out. Do you like Noah Khan?

[A]

I do, yes.

[B]

You like Zach Bryan?

[A]

I like Zach Brian. Yeah. Yep. Yeah.

[B]

Check out the Red Clay Strays.

[A]

Red Clay Strays. All right.

[B]

Yeah. You'll like them. I think it's that sort of that alternative country sound. A little like Stapleton. Chris Stapleton?

[A]

Yeah, I like Chris Staples a lot like Chris Stapleton. Radio is one of my favorites. Listen to.

[B]

You probably heard them then.

[A]

Yeah, I probably have.

[B]

Yeah. There you go.

[A]

Huh? Okay.

[B]

Excellent.

[A]

Thank you. Great recommendation.

[B]

All right, a couple last questions.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Any advice to graduates coming into the workforce these days that want to get into healthcare, that want to get into biotech?

[A]

Yeah, I mean, I think it's a really great industry to get into. As someone coming out of college, you know, you end up working usually in the lab, but really, I think appreciating the science but also learning the business side as well. So I started off my career in business development and corporate development, doing deals and partnerships. But I would learn the science so that you can get in. You really need to understand or at least appreciate and have curiosity for the science. But it's a great industry. Lots of jobs, lots of companies, small companies, large pharmaceutical companies. And it's a good training ground as well for young folks.

[B]

So learn the science.

[A]

Learn the science.

[B]

Find what you're passionate about if it's science grade, if it's not, learn the science.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

And then there's.

[A]

There's business opportunities in biotech as well. So.

[B]

Yeah. Which is really sort of the advice to anybody going into any job or profession. Like learn the product. Whatever that company builds or sells, like if you're not directly involved, learn it. Because ultimately that's what you do. You sell a product or a service.

[A]

And you want to be passionate about it too. Right. If you can find a product, a space, like for me, women's health and endometriosis, find an area that you're really passionate about because that makes it so much more meaningful and mission driven and you can stick with it. And biotech life sciences is a marathon. It is not a sprint. It takes a long time to develop. 10 years related to develop a therapeutic. So if you're getting into life sciences, know that you're in it for the patients. You're in it to really help people.

[B]

And if you're a speculator on the market, don't panic when their stock goes down because I have plenty of stories.

[A]

Sometimes it's a 0 and 1 game very well. Or it doesn't. There's not much in between.

[B]

It is. It is. Be patient because if they're on something, it'll pay off.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

Right.

[A]

That's exactly right. Yeah. I mean, Lilly is now a trillion dollar company.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Yeah. Right.

[B]

So at one point they were, they were pre market.

[A]

That's right. That's exactly right. They were where we are. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Well, I'm excited for you. Good luck.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

Ed, congratulations on your journey. This has been terrific. Appreciate your time. Thanks for joining the podcast.

[A]

Thank you for having me. It's been a pleasure.

[B]

Yeah. Ed Gaudette from the Risk Never Sleeps podcast. If you're on the front lines protecting patient safety and delivering patient care, remember to stay vigilant because Risk never sleeps. Thanks for listening to Risk Never Sleeps. For the show, notes, resources and more information and how to transform the protection of patient safety, Visit [e-mail] that's C-E N S I N E T.com I'm your host Ed Gaudet and until next time, stay vigilant because Risk never sleeps.