Risk Never Sleeps Podcast – Episode #193
Title: You Bought the Tech. You Forgot the Leader, with M.K. Palmore
Date: January 22, 2026
Host: Ed Gaudet
Guest: M.K. Palmore, Founder and Principal Advisor at Apogee Global
Episode Overview
This episode of Risk Never Sleeps features a candid and illuminating conversation between host Ed Gaudet and M.K. Palmore, cybersecurity and risk leadership veteran, now founder of boutique advisory firm Apogee Global. The discussion centers on Palmore's journey from law enforcement and tech executive to entrepreneur, his emphasis on leadership as the missing ingredient in many tech and security transformations, and actionable insights for improving patient safety—and organizational health—through better leadership and holistic risk management.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
M.K. Palmore’s Background and Apogee Global ([01:00]–[03:33])
- Career trajectory: MK is a veteran of the FBI (22 years as a special agent, including SWAT and cyber specialties), Google Cloud, and Palo Alto Networks.
- Apogee Global: A boutique enterprise risk firm focused on cybersecurity, physical security, strategy, leadership development, and talent acquisition for SMBs and the public sector.
- Mission: Delivering enterprise-grade expertise without the “big four” overhead, helping smaller organizations right-size and upscale their risk and security posture.
“Our focus is supporting small to medium sized businesses in the global public sector...that space is in particular need of enterprise level experience and expertise, but not with the big four pricing.”
— M.K. Palmore [01:10]
On Entrepreneurship: Challenges, Learnings, and Leadership ([03:33]–[11:47])
- Transition from employee to founder: MK shares the emotional rollercoaster of entrepreneurship, the “urgency of ownership,” and the immense effort required.
- No playbook: Discussed the unpredictable nature of being a founder—no textbook prepares you for the realities.
- Leadership as Core Value: MK’s core motivation for starting Apogee is to create a “people-focused” culture of leadership, not just profit-driven management.
“Part of this impetus around starting my own business was the idea that I wanted to create my own culture of leadership, which is people focused...If you can create an environment where that is the sense, people will be overproductive for you.”
— M.K. Palmore [09:38]
- Management vs Leadership: Ed and MK highlight that real leadership is what drives organizational health—not simply managing people as resources.
“You can't manage people...you have to lead people, you have to take them there.”
— Ed Gaudet [11:47]
Apogee Global’s Service Lines ([12:06]–[16:40])
- Cyber and Physical Security Risk:
- Direct experience from FBI, including counterterrorism, cyber, SWAT, and leadership roles.
- Talent Acquisition and Executive Search:
- MK observed a broken system, especially in tech, where leadership skills are overlooked in favor of technical backgrounds.
- Seeks to place executive leaders with proven track records, not just technical acumen.
“It strikes me as very, very odd that especially in the technology space, leadership is almost never taken into account...Nothing could be further from the truth.”
— M.K. Palmore [14:20]
- Strategy and Leadership Development:
- Apogee aims for a holistic, “ecosystem” approach: people, process, and technology.
- MK acknowledges it’s a challenge to get organizations to buy the full package, but sees growing interest.
The People Gap in Tech Security ([16:40]–[19:48])
- CISO scarcity in startups: Many tech companies still run without a dedicated CISO or true security leader; often engineers fill the gap without formal security strategy or governance.
- Outcome-driven consulting: Apogee’s model is project- and outcome-based, not designed for dependency (unlike “Big Four” consultancies).
“Identifying a chief information security officer still is not a priority for startups...my goal is to offload you to permanent people that we help you find.”
— M.K. Palmore [17:48]
Personal Insights and Beliefs ([20:01]–[25:36])
- Advice to Younger Self: “You’re on the right path.” MK’s career has been built on deliberate, intentional next steps, including a mid-career pivot into cybersecurity.
- Risk and Resilience: His risk-taking began in the military, continued through the FBI, and culminated in jumping from Google to entrepreneurship.
“I've led a career of risk-related endeavors...Executing federal search warrants…I was a breacher on two FBI SWAT teams. I'm the guy standing at the door with heavy stuff in my hands.”
— M.K. Palmore [23:20]
- Learning from Failures: The resilience developed in lows shapes successful leaders.
“You learn infinitely more from your failures than you do your successes. The failures stick with you.”
— M.K. Palmore [25:08]
Regrets, Fun Facts, & Music ([25:42]–[31:38])
- Biggest regret: Severing ties with the Marine Reserves due to early FBI guidance.
“I regret completely severing my ties with the Marines. I should have stayed in the reserves.”
— M.K. Palmore [26:08]
- Fun fact: Both MK and his wife are retired FBI agents—“My children have had a very unique upbringing.” [27:53]
- Desert island albums:
- “Dream of the Blue Turtles” (Sting)
- “A Love Supreme” (John Coltrane)
- Anything by Snarky Puppy
- “Purple Rain” (Prince)
- Anything by Hans Zimmer (film scores)
“Hans Zimmer is the current basically version of John Williams...I had the benefit of seeing Hans Zimmer in concert...by far the best concert that I've ever been to in my life.”
— M.K. Palmore [29:23–30:04]
- Hobbies: MK is a hobbyist drummer and passionate about music, wishing time would allow professional pursuits.
Advice for New Entrants to Cybersecurity & Risk ([32:29]–[33:54])
- Public sector experience: Encourages grads to start in public sector cybersecurity for invaluable learning.
- Advisory space as a springboard: Consulting and advisory roles offer unique vantage points into organizational risk, without being stuck in daily operational firefights.
- Do advisory before committing to a single-product corporate role.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
“If you do something with, you know, half of an effort, typically you don't get the kinds of outcomes that you're looking for. So I decided I needed to go full time on this. As I like to say, burn the ships at the shore, burn the boats and make an effort, and then you'll know whether or not you're actually capable of doing what you set out to do.”
— M.K. Palmore [03:33] -
“Many people confuse management with leadership...you have to lead people, you have to take them there. People want to be led. If they feel like they're being managed, you're never going to get the best out of them.”
— Ed Gaudet [11:47] -
“If you're asking me for a tool, you've already failed. You don't know it, but you've already failed.”
— Ed Gaudet [16:50] -
“My advice is—go to the public sector first and then go commercial. Because once you've gone commercial, you will never want to go back for pay and all that kind of stuff. But the experience is unparalleled and you will benefit from it.”
— M.K. Palmore [32:29]
Segment Timestamps (HH:MM:SS)
- [01:00] Introduction to Apogee Global
- [03:33] The Reality of Founding a Company
- [09:38] Leadership-Driven Culture
- [12:06] Service Lines Overview
- [16:40] The “Holy Trinity” and Challenges in Tech Startups
- [20:01] Advice to Younger Self & Career Strategy
- [23:20] Riskiest Life Decisions
- [25:42] Regrets and Learning
- [27:53] Fun Fact: Family of FBI Agents
- [28:39] Desert Island Albums
- [31:38] Music and Drumming
- [32:29] Advice to New Graduates/Entrants in Risk
Takeaways for Healthcare Leaders
- Leadership is the missing link in effective risk, security, and patient safety transformations.
- People, process, and technology must be addressed together for lasting security improvement.
- Cultural and strategic change begins with leadership focused on people, not just tools or outcomes.
- Diverse career paths and intentional pivots can build uniquely qualified cybersecurity and risk leaders.
- Public sector experience is an invaluable jumpstart for those entering risk management and cybersecurity.
Summary prepared based on the full transcript of the episode, capturing the tone, insights, and highlights in the speakers’ voices.