Episode #204. What If Healthcare AI Is Making Burnout Worse?, with Dr. Jay Anders, CMO at Medicomp

Summary

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Risk Never Sleeps Podcast – Episode #204

What If Healthcare AI Is Making Burnout Worse?

Host: Ed Gaudet
Guest: Dr. Jay Anders, Chief Medical Officer, Medicomp
Date: April 6, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on the intersection of artificial intelligence (AI) and clinical burnout in healthcare. Host Ed Gaudet speaks with Dr. Jay Anders, Chief Medical Officer at Medicomp, about whether the recent surge in healthcare AI might be intensifying rather than alleviating clinician burnout and risk. The conversation explores AI’s role in healthcare, its unintended consequences, personal career reflections, and practical advice for healthcare professionals.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Dr. Jay Anders’ Background and Journey Into Health IT

• Dr. Anders recounts his early days as an internist and transition into health IT leadership after guiding his clinic into adopting electronic health records (EHRs) in 2002, when systems were rudimentary ([00:57]–[01:13]).
• “I spent the first 20 years after residency being a general internist...Back in 2002, we decided for our clinic to get into electronic healthcare. Back when it was more like read only.” – Jay Anders ([00:59])

2. Early Encounters with Health Tech and Innovation

• Dr. Anders shares a formative experience trying to build an ER system using an old NeXT computer—expensive, beautifully designed, but ultimately a failure ([01:46]–[02:06]).
• “Spent a lot of money, did nothing. It didn’t work. So that’s how I kind of got interested in this part of the world.” – Jay Anders ([02:00])

3. AI in Healthcare: Hype, Hope, and Realities

• AI is termed “everywhere for everything” at the current health tech conferences, but its ultimate direction and use in healthcare remain unclear ([02:21]–[02:39]).
• “It’s like mud balls on the wall, how much one of those mud balls are going to stick. So, yeah, it’s not deterministic in any way.” – Jay Anders ([02:29])
• Medicomp currently uses AI internally, with aspirations to develop AI agents that minimize LLM hallucinations ([02:40]–[03:16]).
• Memorable moment: Ed Gaudet jokes, “This isn’t a Grateful Dead show. We need no hallucinations, no mushroom intake.” ([03:13])

4. The Unexpected Consequences of AI: Burnout and Risk

• Contrary to popular belief, Dr. Anders argues that new technologies may actually increase burnout and risk, not reduce them ([04:11]–[04:25]).
• “Everybody thinks it’s going to take care of physician burnout and reduce risk. It’s going to. Just the opposite.” – Jay Anders ([04:20])
• Clinicians may become less diligent about reviewing system-generated data, transferring risk back onto them. There’s danger in introducing bad data into medical records, with personal anecdotes including loss of insurance due to erroneous inputs ([04:23]–[04:58]).

5. Personal Reflections & Career Philosophy

• Dr. Anders would advise his younger self to get involved in healthcare sooner and to be more proactive:

  • “...apply yourself more, be more proactive with everything I was doing.” ([05:18])
  • “Raise your head up, start looking around and see how you can actually benefit somebody.” ([05:23])

• If not in medicine, he’d devote himself to volunteering, especially in contexts like Doctors Without Borders ([05:44]–[06:08]).

• On the importance of the patient experience—especially the anxiety and vulnerability during hospital transports ([06:13]–[06:43]).

6. Music, Passions, and Hobbies

• Jay would bring only smooth jazz albums to a desert island: “Paul Hardcastle, Chuck Mangione...David Benoit...that whole genre.” ([06:51]–[07:07])
• His wife prefers classical music—a light, humorous moment revealing their household musical debates ([07:08]–[07:13]).
• Dr. Anders secretly wishes to return to flying single-engine planes, describing the experience as “freedom” ([08:28]–[08:43]).

7. Risks, Adventures, and Unique Experiences

• Jay recounts jumping out of a plane during Army ROTC (but not entering active service), describing it as one of the riskiest things he’s ever done ([09:02]–[09:26]).
• Hiking is a regular activity, although he acknowledges his limits regarding risky climbs ([09:57]–[10:09]).

8. Podcasting and Meaningful Conversations

• Dr. Anders hosts his own podcast, “Tell Me Where it Hurts”—created on a whim, now four years running ([07:28]–[07:54]).
• The most interesting guest: Mickey Tripathi, praised for his approachability and insight ([10:17]–[10:31]).

9. On AI Hype and Healthcare Conversations

• Conference interactions reveal increasing skepticism about AI’s capabilities: “People are starting to realize that LLMs can’t cure everything. Yes. And they’re flawed.” ([11:18]–[11:27])
• Ongoing challenge: How to “take the riskiness out of them” ([11:27]–[11:28]).

10. Advice and Leadership Lessons

• For those considering medicine: “Go for it, number one...keep your heads up and be vocal. Step up. Tell them what you think.” ([12:26]–[12:43])
• Importance of helping shape technology decisions, building experience, and seeking mentors ([12:43]–[12:49]).
• Biggest leadership lesson: “If you’re going to fail, fail fast.” ([12:55]–[12:57])
  • “Everybody says it, but it’s like, okay, it’s hard to do...But if you’re going to fail, do it quickly and move on to something else.” ([13:01]–[13:14])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On AI’s Direction:
  “AI everywhere for everything. And we don’t know where it’s going to go...” – Jay Anders ([02:21])

• On AI's Flaws and Risk:
  “Everybody thinks it’s going to take care of physician burnout and reduce risk—just the opposite.” – Jay Anders ([04:20])

• On Leadership:
  “If you’re going to fail, fail fast.” – Jay Anders ([12:55])

• On Volunteering:
  “If I weren’t doing this...someday I’m going to retire, I’m going to start [volunteering]...even push patients around a hospital and talk to them, try to alleviate their anxiety.” – Jay Anders ([05:44])

• Light-hearted Moment about AI:
  “This isn’t a Grateful Dead show. We need no hallucinations, no mushroom intake.” – Ed Gaudet ([03:13])

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Key Timestamps

• Background & Journey into Health IT: [00:57]–[01:13]
• First EHR Project: [01:59]–[02:06]
• AI Hype & Mudball Analogy: [02:21]–[02:29]
• AI Agents at Medicomp: [02:40]–[03:16]
• Technology and Burnout Paradox: [04:11]–[04:58]
• Personal Advice to Younger Self: [05:04]–[05:23]
• Volunteering & Patient Advocacy: [05:44]–[06:08]
• Music Preferences: [06:51]–[07:13]
• Secret Wish – Flying: [08:28]–[08:43]
• Riskiest Experience (Jumping from Plane): [09:02]–[09:26]
• Podcasting Story: [07:28]–[07:54]
• Best Podcast Guest – Mickey Tripathi: [10:17]–[10:31]
• LLM Skepticism at Booth: [11:18]–[11:28]
• Career & Leadership Advice: [12:26]–[13:14]

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Conclusion

This engaging and candid conversation exposes the unforeseen risks behind the accelerating adoption of AI in healthcare, especially regarding clinical burnout and the integrity of patient data. Dr. Jay Anders’s eclectic journey—as a clinician, technologist, volunteer, musician, and podcast host—brings depth and humanity to the debate. For both healthcare professionals and digital health leaders, his perspective offers a crucial reminder: embrace innovation, but remain vigilant and vocal in the pursuit of patient safety.

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Transcript

[Ed Gaudet]

Foreign.

Welcome to Risk Never Sleeps, where we meet and get to know the people delivering patient care and protecting patient safety. I'm your host, Ed Gaudet.

Welcome to the Risk Never Sleeps podcast which we learn about the people that are on the front lines protecting patient safety and delivering patient care. I'm Ed Gaudet, the host of the program and today I am pleased to be joined by Jay Anders from Medicom Systems. And you're the cmio?

[Jay Anders]

I'm the cmo.

[Ed Gaudet]

Oh, cmo. Oh, yeah, I inserted an eye there. Sorry about that.

[Jay Anders]

I was one for another company, but that's okay now.

[Ed Gaudet]

Chief Medical or Chief Marketing?

[Jay Anders]

Chief Medical Officer.

[Ed Gaudet]

Medical Officer. All right, good. So you were close to CMIO then?

[Jay Anders]

Yeah, I was.

[Ed Gaudet]

All right, so tell us a little bit about yourself, your role in your current organization.

[Jay Anders]

Well, I'm an internist by training.

[Ed Gaudet]

Okay.

[Jay Anders]

I spent the first 20 years after residency being a general internist at a very large multi specialty group practice. And back in 2002, we decided to for our clinic to get into electronic healthcare.

[Ed Gaudet]

Okay.

[Jay Anders]

Back when it was more like read only. And yeah, yeah, many of the bells and whistles we go out now. So I was kind of in charge of that project, was president of that clinic for the last part of my career there and got shifted over into the EMR business. They wanted consultants, then they wanted a CMO. And I went from Integrated Systems to MED 3000 to McKesson.

[Ed Gaudet]

Oh, boy.

[Jay Anders]

And then McKesson kind of soured me on the big corporate stuff and then I moved over to Medicom Systems. I've known Dave Laro, the CEO, for 20 plus years. So that's how I wound up there. Got interested in this because when I was a resident, I have a computer science writer. When I was a resident, we tried to build an ER system using the old NeXT computer that Stephen John.

[Ed Gaudet]

Oh, sure.

[Jay Anders]

Boxes.

[Ed Gaudet]

Yeah, of course. Yeah.

[Jay Anders]

Spent a lot of money, did nothing. It didn't work. So that's how I kind of got interested in this part of the world.

[Ed Gaudet]

But a beautiful design, wasn't it?

[Jay Anders]

It was a gorgeous design.

[Ed Gaudet]

Yeah. All right, so you've been at the show for a couple of days. What's the big takeaway? What? Some of the things you've learned about AI. Oh, no, don't say the AI word. Okay. No, I'm just kidding.

[Jay Anders]

AI everywhere for everything. And we don't know where it's going

[Ed Gaudet]

to go right or how to use

[Jay Anders]

it or how to use it or

[Ed Gaudet]

work and go wrong.

[Jay Anders]

It's like mud Balls on the wall, how much one of those mud balls are going to stick. So, yeah, it's not deterministic in any way. It seems like they're throwing it at just everything.

[Ed Gaudet]

Yeah.

[Jay Anders]

Seeing what happens.

[Ed Gaudet]

How's Medicomp using it?

[Jay Anders]

MetaComp uses it more for internal purposes, and we've started now to use it a little bit more in the MCP world. So you can use an LLM to actually just do voice. Give me a command, decipher the command, then go into our system and produce the result for that command.

[Ed Gaudet]

Got it. Okay. So agents.

[Jay Anders]

It's like an agent. Yeah, it's very much like that.

[Ed Gaudet]

Yeah. Are you heading that way?

[Jay Anders]

Well, to be honest, not really currently, but the goal is, because the technology is there, we could actually do that and do it in such a way that we take all the hallucinations out of LLMs.

[Ed Gaudet]

That's cool. We need that, right?

[Jay Anders]

Absolutely right.

[Ed Gaudet]

This isn't a Grateful Dead show. We need no hallucinations, no mushroom intake. No mushroom intake.

[Jay Anders]

Right.

[Ed Gaudet]

Get out of those forests of Santa Cruz and. Right. How did you get into healthcare?

[Jay Anders]

I really started out as a music major in college.

[Ed Gaudet]

Oh, we're gonna have fun.

[Jay Anders]

Yeah. I was a trumpet player. French horn player.

[Ed Gaudet]

French horn, Yeah.

[Jay Anders]

I was gonna be music teacher as I grew up.

[Ed Gaudet]

Chuck Mangione. Was that your.

[Jay Anders]

Oh, yeah. One of my favorites.

[Ed Gaudet]

Nice.

[Jay Anders]

And I thought to myself, how am I going to feed myself? And I was always a science major in high school. So I went. I just shifted over to starting on that track I really liked it was fortunate enough to get into medical school, and the rest is history.

[Ed Gaudet]

Nice. Never look back.

[Jay Anders]

Never look back.

[Ed Gaudet]

All right, what do you. Over the next couple years, what are you most interested in from your organization's perspective, but also from the industry perspective, what are you looking at achieving over the next couple years as you think about your role?

[Jay Anders]

Well, interestingly, we've got a lot of new technologies out there. They're being used, and everybody thinks it's going to take care of physician burnout and reduce risk. It's going to. Just the opposite. Just the opposite.

[Ed Gaudet]

Really?

[Jay Anders]

Absolutely.

[Ed Gaudet]

We're going to create more risk and

[Jay Anders]

more burnout and more burnout. Because some of these systems. Well, the reason the burnout goes down is because these clinicians are not reading what their systems are producing. So you still have to be responsible for it. There is that, and then there's the risk of putting bad data into medical records. I mean, my wife was an example of that. The CTO of our company Was denied insurance because something got his medical record by error by one of these systems. So it's out there. And that's not good health care. Not at all.

[Ed Gaudet]

If you could go back in time and see your 20 year old self, what would you tell him?

[Jay Anders]

I would probably told myself to get involved earlier than I did.

[Ed Gaudet]

In what?

[Jay Anders]

And just in healthcare. In healthcare.

[Ed Gaudet]

Okay. And actually what were you doing at 20 years old?

[Jay Anders]

I was in college, of course.

[Ed Gaudet]

Okay.

[Jay Anders]

But you know, I would say apply yourself more, be more proactive with everything I was doing.

[Ed Gaudet]

Yeah.

[Jay Anders]

Because if you're a pre med student, you got your heads down. It's all you're doing, you're studying, you're trying to get all that stuff, raise your head up, start looking around and see how you can actually benefit somebody. Yeah.

[Ed Gaudet]

Interesting. Were you a chemist in biology and chemistry. Biology and chemistry.

[Jay Anders]

Okay.

[Ed Gaudet]

If you're not doing this job, what are you most passionate about? What would you be doing?

[Jay Anders]

You know, I probably would be out there volunteering. One of the things that I've always enjoyed doing and I've done medical mission work overseas is volunteering and helping people who really can't help themselves. So if I weren't doing this, and someday I'm going to retire, I'm going to start doing that and like Doctors Without Borders. Doctors Without Borders or I would even push patients around a hospital and talk to them, try to alleviate their anxiety as they're going from one test to another.

[Ed Gaudet]

Yeah, yeah. It's a pretty vulnerable state when you're in that wheelchair and someone parks you outside of a CAT scan area and you're sort of. And then leaves you. Right, right.

[Jay Anders]

You're all by yourself.

[Ed Gaudet]

It's happened to me in the Puerto Rican hospital on a trip when we were visiting Puerto Rico and I got sick and so I ended up in the General Hospital there.

[Jay Anders]

Wow.

[Ed Gaudet]

Yeah. But it's interesting that you say that though. The transport is really important part of care, you know.

[Jay Anders]

Oh yeah, yeah. People are scared to death. They don't know what's going to happen.

[Ed Gaudet]

People are scared to death.

[Jay Anders]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Ed Gaudet]

You're on a desert island and you could, you said music. So you could bring five records with you. What would they be?

[Jay Anders]

Oh, gosh, they would all be smooth jazz.

[Ed Gaudet]

Smooth jazz.

[Jay Anders]

Smooth jazz. Paul Hardcastle, Chuck Mangione.

[Ed Gaudet]

Chuck Mancione.

[Jay Anders]

Let's see, David Benoit. No, that kind of, that whole genre.

[Ed Gaudet]

Really? Yeah.

[Jay Anders]

I'm a smooth jazz guy.

[Ed Gaudet]

Smooth jazz.

[Jay Anders]

My wife hates me for it, but I still am.

[Ed Gaudet]

What does she like? What does she look.

[Jay Anders]

Oh, she's classical.

[Ed Gaudet]

Classical. Classical music. Oh, okay. Like boxing.

[Jay Anders]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Ed Gaudet]

Nice. All that good stuff.

[Jay Anders]

Yeah.

[Ed Gaudet]

You ever hear Carl Orff, Carmina Barana? No. Okay. Just random. You also have your own podcast.

[Jay Anders]

Tell us about that. Well, I started that four years ago. It's. Tell me where it hurts. I t. Oh, information.

[Ed Gaudet]

Where it.

[Jay Anders]

Oh, I like that.

[Ed Gaudet]

I like that.

[Jay Anders]

It was kind of a whim almost, because I, you know, I said, well, we could probably do that. When I talked it over to one of the other guys in our company and we talked to Healthcare Radio and, oh, let's try it, and it just took off. So it's a lot of fun talking to people, as you well know.

[Ed Gaudet]

Yes.

[Jay Anders]

It's getting different perspectives and getting out of your own thinking realm, getting new ideas. So. Yeah, I really like it a lot.

[Ed Gaudet]

Yeah, it really is interesting because everyone's got a story, but I find that people sort of keep everything close. Right. And our jobs is sort of to get them to open up a little bit.

[Jay Anders]

Yep.

[Ed Gaudet]

And share.

[Jay Anders]

Right, exactly.

[Ed Gaudet]

A little bit about their story and their journey.

[Jay Anders]

And that's kind of the fun part.

[Ed Gaudet]

That's the fun part. All right, so tell us a secret about yourself. Yourself that nobody knows.

[Jay Anders]

Secretly. I would like to go back to flying. I have not flown airplane in. In years. What kind of plane? The single engine.

[Ed Gaudet]

Oh, okay. Like a Cessna or.

[Jay Anders]

Yeah, I'd like to go back to flying.

[Ed Gaudet]

Oh, okay. What did you like about flying?

[Jay Anders]

It's freedom.

[Ed Gaudet]

It is freedom.

[Jay Anders]

Yeah.

[Ed Gaudet]

Do you ever fly in your dreams?

[Jay Anders]

Sometimes.

[Ed Gaudet]

You're a lucid dreamer?

[Jay Anders]

Sometimes.

[Ed Gaudet]

Really?

[Jay Anders]

Yeah.

[Ed Gaudet]

All right. It doesn't happen often, but when it happens, it's kind of magical, kind of weird. That's kind of weird. Okay. What's the riskiest thing you've ever done?

[Jay Anders]

The riskiest thing I've ever done, now

[Ed Gaudet]

that you say you're a pilot, so.

[Jay Anders]

Well, that's not been missed jump out

[Ed Gaudet]

of a plane ever.

[Jay Anders]

I have done that.

[Ed Gaudet]

Oh.

[Jay Anders]

And I was in with the army rotc, and the instructor basically said, nobody in their right mind jumps out of a perfectly functioning aircraft.

[Ed Gaudet]

So you went to airborne school?

[Jay Anders]

Yeah. So it was like, okay. That's probably one of the riskiest things I've ever done.

[Ed Gaudet]

Well, thank you for your service. I also was army rotc.

[Jay Anders]

Well, I wasn't. I never got in the Army. I just. The ROTC part.

[Ed Gaudet]

Oh, you just did the. Oh, okay.

[Jay Anders]

So.

[Ed Gaudet]

Oh, you ever went in?

[Jay Anders]

Never went in.

[Ed Gaudet]

Okay. Did you wish you ever went in?

[Jay Anders]

Yeah, I had a Friend that went in.

[Ed Gaudet]

Yeah.

[Jay Anders]

And he was a tank commander, for heaven's sakes.

[Ed Gaudet]

Yeah.

[Jay Anders]

Which I'm really good friends with still.

[Ed Gaudet]

So what would you have done if you went in?

[Jay Anders]

I would have probably gone into flight school.

[Ed Gaudet]

Yeah. Okay. Cobras, the helicopters.

[Jay Anders]

Helicopters, Things like that.

[Ed Gaudet]

Nice. You ever repel out of a helicopter?

[Jay Anders]

Never repelled out of a helicopter, but I've repelled off a cliff.

[Ed Gaudet]

Do you hike?

[Jay Anders]

I hike all the time. Zion been designed. Angels Landing. I would not go up there.

[Ed Gaudet]

You're not too risky?

[Jay Anders]

I'm not that risky.

[Ed Gaudet]

What? Who's the most interesting guest you've had on your podcast?

[Jay Anders]

Probably the onc Mickey Tripathi.

[Ed Gaudet]

Mickey. I love Mickey.

[Jay Anders]

Yeah.

[Ed Gaudet]

Yeah.

[Jay Anders]

He was a great interview.

[Ed Gaudet]

He said Mayo now, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jay Anders]

I had him on twice. Great conversation. Down to earth.

[Ed Gaudet]

He's a Boston guy.

[Jay Anders]

Yeah. Wonderful guest.

[Ed Gaudet]

Yeah. Where are you from that asking?

[Jay Anders]

Pittsburgh.

[Ed Gaudet]

Pittsburgh Steelers fan.

[Jay Anders]

Oh, you got to be Steelers. And if you live in Pittsburgh. Come on.

[Ed Gaudet]

Pirates fan.

[Jay Anders]

Sort of.

[Ed Gaudet]

Okay.

[Jay Anders]

They're not quite up the scale of the Steelers. Of course. Steelers are in Toronto.

[Ed Gaudet]

So were a hockey fan.

[Jay Anders]

Oh, absolutely.

[Ed Gaudet]

Did you see the usa?

[Jay Anders]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Ed Gaudet]

That was great, huh? That came.

[Jay Anders]

We have two Canadians in our company and we were kind of rubbing it in a little bit.

[Ed Gaudet]

I had a Canadian guest today on. I had to rub it in a little bit, too. That was just a little, right?

[Jay Anders]

Just a little bit.

[Ed Gaudet]

Yeah. Are you going to hymns? Yes.

[Jay Anders]

We'll be at hs.

[Ed Gaudet]

Okay. Do you have a booth or.

[Jay Anders]

We have a booth at him.

[Ed Gaudet]

You have a booth out here.

[Jay Anders]

We have one here too, as well.

[Ed Gaudet]

Yeah. Were you right in the main hall or.

[Jay Anders]

Yeah, we're 23, 29.

[Ed Gaudet]

Okay. How are the conversations going at the booth?

[Jay Anders]

Very good. Very interesting, too. What we talked about just a little bit before was people are starting to realize that LLMs can't cure everything. Yes. And they're flawed.

[Ed Gaudet]

Yeah.

[Jay Anders]

So how do you get around that? How do you really do what you want them to do and take the riskiness out of them?

[Ed Gaudet]

Yeah. Interesting plans for tonight. What are you doing?

[Jay Anders]

Having dinner with our company.

[Ed Gaudet]

Oh, where are you going?

[Jay Anders]

I have no idea where David set that up. I just follow the crowd.

[Ed Gaudet]

You just follow the crowd. I don't know if I asked you this question, but what would you be doing if you weren't doing this job?

[Jay Anders]

I weren't doing this job. Boy, that's a real hard question. I don't know what I would do. I've lived this so long. It's kind of interesting. I Probably would still be practicing medicine full time.

[Ed Gaudet]

Yeah.

[Jay Anders]

If I weren't doing what I'm doing in healthcare, it. I would probably still be. I enjoyed seeing patients a lot.

[Ed Gaudet]

When did you stop practicing?

[Jay Anders]

It's been about six years. Six. That's not too long, though, Right? But still, it's kind of part of your heart and soul when you get into medical school and that's what you do with your life. So, yeah, I would probably be back to practicing medicine.

[Ed Gaudet]

What advice would you share to someone that's graduating, that wants to get into medicine or healthc care? It.

[Jay Anders]

Or I would say go for it, number one.

[Ed Gaudet]

Yeah.

[Jay Anders]

But keep your heads up and be vocal. Step up. Tell them what you think. Especially if you're going to be a practicing physician and they're foisting on you some stuff that you may or may not be able to use. Tell them what you think.

[Ed Gaudet]

Take all the jobs you can get. Build the experience. Right.

[Jay Anders]

Build the experience.

[Ed Gaudet]

Find a mentor.

[Jay Anders]

I've had several, and that would be a great thing to do.

[Ed Gaudet]

Yeah. Biggest leadership lesson in your life.

[Jay Anders]

If you're going to fail, fail fast.

[Ed Gaudet]

Oh, that's a new one. Yeah, we always say that, too. That's good.

[Jay Anders]

Everybody says it, but it's like, okay, it's hard to do. Yeah.

[Ed Gaudet]

Because people are just generally afraid. Right, Right.

[Jay Anders]

They don't want to fail. Everybody wants to succeed. So it's. But if you're going to fail, do it quickly and move on to something else.

[Ed Gaudet]

Yeah. That's really good advice. Sage advice. All right, well, Jay, pleasure having you on. Thank you so much. Oh, you're very welcome. Podcast. Yeah. Best of luck in your podcast world at medicom. And we're going to wrap up. This is Ed Gaudette from the Wrist Never Sleeps podcast. From the front, protecting patient safety and delivering patient care. Remember to stay vigilant because risk never sleeps.

Thanks for listening to Risk Never Sleeps. For the show, notes, resources and more information and how to transform the protection of patient safety, Visit [e-mail] that's C E N S I N E T. I'm your host, Ed Gaudet. And until next time, stay vigilant because risk never sleeps.