Episode #248. The Cybersecurity Risk Hiding in Retired Technology, with Gus Thompson, Executive Vice President-Client Strategy at Maxxum

Summary

Risk Never Sleeps Podcast: Episode #248

Title: The Cybersecurity Risk Hiding in Retired Technology
Host: Ed Gaudet
Guest: Gus Thompson, EVP-Client Strategy, Maxxum
Date: July 30, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Ed Gaudet sits down with Gus Thompson, Executive Vice President of Client Strategy at Maxxum, to explore a lesser-discussed but crucial aspect of cybersecurity risk in healthcare: the management and secure disposal of retired technology, known in the industry as IT asset disposition (ITAD). Thompson and Gaudet discuss why ITAD is central to patient safety, how AI is introducing new cybersecurity risks around data recoverability, and the ways organizations must adapt to protect sensitive health information throughout the device lifecycle.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What is ITAD and Why It Matters?

• Gus explains ITAD stands for "Information Technology Asset Disposition" — the industry focused on what organizations do with old technology at the end of its lifecycle ([00:30]).
• He joined Maxxum because ITAD checked his three boxes: relevance (especially for C-suite and budgets), a mature but ripe-for-disruption industry, and high fragmentation (1300+ players in the US).

“Super relevant because of the cybersecurity element. What you do with a computer at the end of life is important. … How you get rid of the data at the end of its life is important.”
— Gus Thompson [01:15]

2. Healthcare as a Core Vertical

• Maxxum focuses on highly regulated industries, with healthcare (“seat 1A”) due to HIPAA, PHI, and patient safety stakes ([02:56]).
• Both payers (insurers) and providers are core clients.

3. Emerging Risks & Disruptive Trends in ITAD

AI & New Levels of Data Recoverability

• AI has changed the threat landscape. Where partial wiping of hard drives used to suffice, now advanced forensic AI can piece together residual data remnants ([03:49–04:32]).
• Organizations should critically assess what “sanitized” means in contracts and practice.

“With the forensic capabilities of AI programs… what you thought was data that had been sanitized is now visible to someone who maybe has malicious intent.”
— Gus Thompson [03:56]

Maxxum’s Approach: Exceeding Industry Standards

• Maxxum wipes every bit of data, turning all binary data to zero, not just what regulations require. For highly sensitive assets, physical destruction (“metal confetti”) is used ([05:01–05:55]).

“We tend—when we pass through a hard drive—every zero or one is turned to zero. … We wipe out everything to zeros so that we know firmly that everything is no longer recoverable or forensically achievable through AI tactics.”
— Gus Thompson [05:01, 05:25]

• Trade-off: physically destroyed assets can't be resold to recoup costs; sanitized devices can ([05:54]).

4. Innovation & Tech-Forward Initiatives at Maxxum

• Adoption of "agentic AI" brings efficiency to internal processes (e.g., automatic invoicing, faster asset grading and market pricing, device “DNA” scanning) ([06:33–07:58]).
• Built in-house engineering team to implement AI and automation, unusual in the ITAD industry.

“This organization and the industry doesn’t usually have…software engineers. We’re bringing agentic AI to the whole process.”
— Gus Thompson [07:10]

5. Gus’s Personal Background & Perspective

• Joined Maxxum post-retirement when recruited by a friend; wanted relevance, disruption, and ownership without direct reports. Ended up getting deeply involved ([08:23]).

“Battlefield Commission” in Cybersecurity

• Became passionate due to crisis experience: led a division through two major breaches with no IT systems for 70 days ([09:20–10:09]).

“I’ve become a vigilante about cybersecurity.”
— Gus Thompson [10:09]

• Distinguishes between cybersecurity (protecting data) and cyber resilience (protecting the business) ([10:14]).

“Cybersecurity protects your data. Cyber resiliency protects your business.”
— Gus Thompson [10:37]

• Argues that cyber risk is an organization-wide concern, not just IT’s domain.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On AI & Recoverability:
  “It’s not about how much [data] is recovered, but what is recovered that can have the damaging effect.”
  — Gus Thompson [04:46]

• On Resilience:
  “Resiliency: the ability to respond and recover. And it’s just that simple.”
  — Gus Thompson [11:06]

• On Starting a Business & Risk:
  “It’s probably what I didn’t do. I never started a business… I did not follow my observational skills and see a need and have the courage, the wisdom to do something about it.”
  — Gus Thompson [15:15]

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Personal and Career Insights

• Gus is a passionate writer—60% into a non-fiction book titled An Obvious Mind about using observation for business and life ([12:56–13:56]).
• Values the “obvious” as often overlooked power, aiming to “rehabilitate the word ‘obvious’”.
• Active lifestyle: walks 5–7 miles daily (~20,000 steps) ([14:42]).
• Advocates trusting your instincts and being willing to act on new ideas, especially at a young age ([27:02]).

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Segment Timestamps

| Segment | Timestamp | |-----------------------------------------------|----------------| | Introductions & Gus’s Role | 00:21–02:53 | | Industry Focus: Why Healthcare? | 02:53–03:38 | | AI & Data Recoverability Risks | 03:49–05:01 | | Maxxum’s Approach to Secure Disposition | 05:01–06:28 | | Tech-Forward Initiatives & AI in ITAD | 06:28–08:14 | | Gus’s Personal Journey into ITAD/Cyber | 08:14–11:45 | | Reflections on Cyber Resilience | 10:14–11:09 | | Career Experience at Hallmark | 11:45–12:48 | | Writing, Reading, and Personal Routine | 12:56–14:58 | | Reflections on Risk, Entrepreneurship | 15:03–19:40 | | Team Dynamics, Debate & Leadership | 19:40–20:50 | | Desert Island Records (personal favorites) | 21:03–21:41 | | Advice for Early-Career Professionals | 27:02–28:34 | | Closing Remarks | 28:34–29:15 |

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Practical Takeaways

• For Healthcare CISOs/CIOs: Don’t assume your current sanitization or ITAD process eliminates all risk; forensic AI creates new vulnerabilities.
• For Risk Leaders: Cyber resilience must be a business responsibility, not just a technical one. Plan for rapid and graceful recovery, not just prevention.
• For Executives: The final stages of technology lifecycle—disposal, destruction, remarketing—are often overlooked weak points that require new scrutiny as attack surfaces evolve.

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Final Thoughts

Gus Thompson illuminates how end-of-life IT asset management, often seen as an operational afterthought, is a frontline issue for patient safety and organizational risk. As AI enhances adversaries’ data recovery tools, only rigorous, forward-thinking approaches will suffice. Gus’s mix of personal experience, operational expertise, and emphasis on resilience provides actionable wisdom for healthcare and beyond.

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Quote to Remember:
“People pay for your services or your stuff, but they buy your ideas.”
— Gus Thompson [25:26]

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For more resources:
Visit www.censinet.com

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Transcript

[A]

Foreign. Welcome to the Risk Never Sleeps podcast, in which we learn about the people that are on the front lines protecting patient safety and delivering patient care. I'm Ed Gaudette, the host of the program, and today I am pleased to be joined by Gus Thompson of Maxim. Gus, welcome.

[B]

Thank you so much, Ed. Glad to be here.

[A]

Yeah. Good to see you. So let's start off with sharing a little bit about your current role, your current organization.

[B]

Yeah, great. So I currently work with Maps. I'm an executive on the executive team, but I'm also on their advisory board. Maxim is in the industry called itad, which is kind of a fancy acronym for what companies do with their old technology at the end of life. So the acronym actually stands for Information Technology Asset Disposition. I can honestly say before I started working here, I had never heard of the industry. And I wasn't looking for this industry, but this industry found me. But I was looking for something to kind of do next. I was looking for kind of three characteristics in a business. I was looking for something that was going to be highly relevant. And, you know, we both know highly relevant means it's going to have the attention of C Suite and it's going to have a budget to get funding. So I was looking for something relevant. I was looking for a mature industry because I like to disrupt things I don't like. I don't want to administer the status quo. So I was looking for a mature industry that I thought was ripe for disruption. The final characteristic, I was really looking for an industry that was highly fragmented, with a lot of players, a lot of providers, which tells me there was a lot of addressable market share to take. So when you take those three factors together, this industry fit perfectly. Super relevant because of the cyber security element. Right. What you do with a computer at the end of life is important. What you do during the life. How you get rid of the data at the end of its life is important. How you protect it during its life. Very mature industry. The mature industry that had what we felt was really ripe for disruption in a number of different ways, whether it be bringing AI to the front of it, some other ways we could disrupt in terms of pricing models, et cetera. So it was disruptive and then highly fragmented in our space. Axon is one of 1300 companies in the US that do this work.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

So do the math. I mean, that's like almost 30 companies per state. So we look across that landscape, we realize that there's an operate opportunity to grow either organically by taking share, perhaps even Going through an M and A process and start to roll it up and buy share. So when you take those three things together, that's what brought me to Maxim. So we are under new ownership. A friend of mine bought this company about a year ago. We have grown the business, we've reinvented the business in a lot of different ways and we're having a lot of fun doing it now.

[A]

Is healthcare one of your focus verticals?

[B]

Absolutely. You know what, we'd say that we focus really on highly regulated industries. So healthcare, you know that seats that sits in seat 1A, both payers and providers financial services, you know, kind of seated in seat 1B if you will, the highly regulated industries that care about protecting either their HIPAA data, you know, in the case of health care, you know, financial services, that's, you know, it's PHI or PCI data I should say is probably as important as well. So highly regulated industries, the whole payer provider space in health care. Absolutely. It's our core addressable market for CISOs

[A]

listening to the program or CIOs listening to the program, you know, what insights can you share? What should they be looking at now? And maybe what's new? What's state of the art in your industry?

[B]

Well, you know, I think what's new is the whole what AI adds to the level of risk that you know now, you know, it used to be when you sanitize a hard drive at the end of the life it would be partially, we say sanitized or wiped. But now with the forensic capabilities of AI programs, it can fill in those strands and suddenly what you thought was the data that had been sanitized is now to someone that maybe does has malicious intent. So I'd be very careful about when someone says we're sanitizing our hard drives, are they truly wiping out all the zeros and ones or just segments of them? So I think that's fairly new. You know, I think that that that's introduced a level of risk that hadn't been contemplated before.

[A]

What level of recoverability can folks get?

[B]

Well, I think that depending on how that was sanitized and you know, again with the forensic capabilities, you know, I'm not going to put a percentage on it, but let's just say it's more recoverable than it had been in the past. And again it's maybe not how much it is, but what is what's recovered that can have the, can have the damaging effect.

[A]

I think that's what's maxim doing that's different that's protecting it.

[B]

Well, I think our standardization exceeds our industry standards in that we tend when we pass through a hard drive, every zero or one is turned to zero. We don't leave any ones out there. As you know, in binary technology, 0 ones equals data. Right, Right. So we wipe out everything to zeros so that we know firmly that everything is no longer recoverable or forensically achievable.

[A]

Nice.

[B]

Through AI tactics.

[A]

Nice. And is there much overhead to go to that extreme or.

[B]

Well, it takes more time. Yeah, more time. That's just how we do it. And that's. We just. We exceed the industry standard, which says you don't have to do it that way. The other thing is, if there are something, we will also still destroy hard drives where we say we make metal confetti. You know, we'll literally turn things into literally the size of confetti if there's something so sensitive. So, you know, so strategically important.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We will pull things off the line as they're marked and say, this is going to. This is going to be destroyed. So that's the peace of mind that organization needs. We will take it to that level as well. The downside, when you go to that level now, it's no longer something that can be remarketed to offset the expense of doing it. You know, that's one of our value propositions, is giving clients back the money that we get from reselling their equipment once it's been sanitized and refurbished, is giving them money back to go back and to fund their program so they can offset their service fees in that way.

[A]

Nice. You know, as you look out over the next couple years, what are some of your key strategic initiatives?

[B]

You know, I think we'll continue to be very tech forward. We are using a lot of agency right now in our processes. You know, things that used to take people, you know, hours and sometimes days to do. What we're doing now, we're literally doing it now, doing in minutes, where we're able to put together, you know, even just the simple act of getting a client invoice out. Used to be a little bit of an app to Congress around here.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But now with the genic AI, it goes to all the data sources and pulls that together in minutes and that, you know, the hours of cutting and pasting spreadsheets.

[A]

Wow. And using it for that. Did you build your own or.

[B]

Yeah, we've actually built an engineering team here as well.

[A]

Nice.

[B]

This organization and the industry doesn't usually have engineers, software engineers. We're Bringing agentic AI to the whole process. So it used to be to look to see the DNA, if you will, of a laptop. You don't screw the back and look at what the memory was and what processor it is.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Well, now we're plugging it into the USB port and downloading the DNA and being able to. And then go out to a large language model and decide what's the right price to price this at in the open market. So that used to take, again, a small act of Congress, take it apart. What is it trying to find what the price is. So I think a lot of process, you know, what you and I might have called rpa. It's, you know, it's a combination of rpa, ML and AI. Really. There's a lot on the front end to kind of to figure out what the stuff is, give it a grade and figure out the market prices.

[A]

I love that. Are you on a cloud or are you on Microsoft Stack or what?

[B]

We're in a cloud. We're in the cloud.

[A]

You're in the cloud. Okay. And are you using Amazon or.

[B]

That's a great question. I do. I don't. I'm not sure what we're in. I think we're in Azure. I think we're Azure. Okay.

[A]

Most likely, yeah. That would make sense. Cool. So how did you get involved in the business? You know, you've got a storied background, you've done a number of jobs.

[B]

Yeah, you know, I was, you know, my last kid was out of college and I was at a point where I was. I was going to retire, which lasted about a week.

[A]

Yeah, I know that. Yeah.

[B]

And then my friend Mike called, Mike Siegler, who bought this business, said, I want you to come and work for me. And I said, okay. Then I had the good sense to call back and said, well, what exactly do we do? And he said, well, we're in this industry called itad. And he told me all about it. And I went back to my kind of characteristics, what I was looking for, looking for that, you know, that relevant business, something that was ripe for disruption and fragments. And I thought, yeah, okay. I gave him three conditions. I said, I'd like to work part time, I'd like to not supervise people, and I want to be on your board of directors.

[A]

I love that.

[B]

He said, great. And guess what? One of those three came true. I'm on his board, but I'm working a little bit more than part time.

[A]

I was gonna say, yeah, not to. It's hard not to. If you're on the board.

[B]

I've become so passionate about this space. You know, it's early in my career or kind of, I'll say later, actually I became a cyber security. I had a, I say I have a battlefield commission in cyber security because I've taken all the cyber classes you could take when you're not in cyber. Like your annual training where you look at something else and click through the test and say you passed your test. Well, I was the chief client officer for sub of a Fortune 500 that went through two major cyber breaches where I had nothing but my cell phone and my building pass for over 70 days.

[A]

Wow. Wow.

[B]

No CRM, no ERP, no call center software. Yeah, Call center reported to me and I had to run a business for 70 days without that.

[A]

Crazy.

[B]

So I, I've become a vigilante about cyber security.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And this industry is all about, we started out, this business is all about cyber. So I've done a lot of, a lot of reading, writing, research and speaking about cyber resiliency, building cyber resilience organizations and you know, in layman's terms, because I don't have the cyber security credentials, but I say cyber security protects your data, cyber resiliency protects your business. And I think most organizations, you still view cyber as kind of the purview of it and I view it as a purview of the business.

[A]

I love that. Yeah, I know it's resiliency is so important now because most people, we've been talking about this for years, but most people now realize it's not a matter of, you know, if, it's a matter of when and. Yeah. So being resilient is so much more important now.

[B]

I had to look up the word resiliency because I liked it so much. You know, it's really, you know, I looked it up. Resiliency, the ability to respond and recover.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And it's just that simple. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

And recovery is so important because again, if, if, if the business is attacked, especially in healthcare, lives are at stake. Right. So ambulances get diverted, you know, systems shut down, hospitals shut down, life saving equipment shuts down. So it's a real issue and we have to stay vigilant, as you mentioned.

[B]

Yeah. And what we were, what we were doing was not in health care, but still you could see that, you know, that with each passing day of an outage or of a breach, how the stakes really became higher and higher. That's really where I got exposed to making this a portal director level topic.

[A]

Yeah. You've worked at Accenture. You've been at Hallmark. Tell me about the Hallmark experience.

[B]

Yeah, Hallmark was great. Hallmark. We were actually the B2B arm of. This was one of our taglines that I wrote. Yes, we're that Hallmark. Because people would ask that, are you that? Yes, we're that Hallmark. We'd even say before they ask. So, yeah, we're in the B2B arm of Hallmark. And, you know, what we did was, as you can imagine, greeting cards for business. Right. And we did incentives for customer loyalty and for wellness programs. So, yeah, I was using a Hallmark experience to bring that to the B2B life.

[A]

Nice. Nice. How many years did you do that?

[B]

I did that for eight years.

[A]

Eight years. Wow.

[B]

And, yes, we actually did have. You know, we actually did do healthcare incentives. So I got very familiar with signing baas and having. So that really was a good introduction to me. Again, this. That experience actually plays into my time at Maxim, because I do speak the. The healthcare contracting language, so to speak.

[A]

Nice, nice. Excellent. So, you know, if you weren't doing this job, what are you most passionate about? What would you be doing? You have any hobbies or.

[B]

Yeah, I'm a writer. I'm a writer, you know.

[A]

Wow. Okay.

[B]

Yeah, I love to. I love to write. I'm in the middle of probably 60% through writing a book. Wow.

[A]

Like a fiction or.

[B]

No, this one's actually kind of a. I'd say it's a business light book.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

It's. It's like people say always how we have such different experiences. How are you ever gonna. You know, how do you capture those? And the organizing theme that I've come across and, you know, forgive the title, because it might be a little bit. It might be a little bit. I might be a little full of myself, but it's called an obvious mind, and it's really just using my powers of observation through the years, in hindsight, about the good things that have happened in my career have really been a function of doing the obvious things. Right. And I think a lot of times. So I say that the purpose of this book, because I wrote the forward first, is to rehabilitate the word obvious, because it gets a bum wrap. Right. Have you ever. Have you ever heard anybody use obvious as a compliment?

[A]

No.

[B]

Yeah. And I think there's an awful lot of power in people sometimes if you do the obvious, it's the right thing, and it can have tremendous power.

[A]

Yeah, I love that. And. And you're 60, so do you think a couple years you'll have it out

[B]

or I'm hoping for late fall or late December or early December is my goal, depending on nice summers.

[A]

Will you self publish or.

[B]

Yeah, I'll still publish you through a platform called Blurb. That's probably self. I'll self publish and I don't have any. I have no illusions to this going on any kind of bestseller list. If nothing else, I may be using it for business development. Yeah, usually as they leave behind when I get invited to do various speaking engagements, a little bit.

[A]

Nice.

[B]

You know, the other thing I spend my time on is, Is just being active. I'm a. I, I walk an average of five to seven miles a day. 7365 days a year.

[A]

Wow. Holy cow.

[B]

I like to be moving.

[A]

So you got about 20,000, 30,000 steps a day then?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, about 20. About 20,000, yeah.

[A]

That's great. That's great. So what's the riskiest thing you've ever done? It's a Risk Never Sleeps podcast, so I feel like I have to ask you that question. Jump out of planes, parachute, you know,

[B]

it's probably what I didn't do. I never started a business. I think that's, you know, that's, that is the riskiest thing. I think I put, I put, I shared the risk with an employer and I, and I did not follow kind of my observational skills and see a need and take. And have the courage, the wisdom to do something about it.

[A]

No kidding. That's it. That's. I've never heard that anyone say that. That's really interesting. And, and so do you think, do you think you have something in you longer term?

[B]

Yeah, in some ways this is probably as close as I've come. Yeah, this is probably. This is probably as close as I may have come. But, you know, I've got a couple of boys in business and I'm all in. My, My daughter is as well, so I'm all over them about, if you're ever going to do it, you got

[A]

to do it early, do it before, do it early because you're going to fail. Well, odds are you're going to fail. And so you got to be able to stay resilient, like you said. You got to be able to respond and recover from the failure and learn from it and get back up and do it again and again and again and again.

[B]

Well, you've done. You think. I think you told me when we talked earlier about, you know, 8, 9, 10, 14 companies. I forget the number, but. 11.

[A]

11. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

So. So I'm sure you've had tremendous successes and probably some failures too.

[A]

Oh, yeah, absolutely. And you learn so much from the failures and even the successes there, by the grace of God. Right. So you learn a lot through the failures during the successes because you're obviously going to have failures as well along the way. So. Yeah, no, I always find it interesting that more people don't try to start companies up. But you're right, though, it's hard because most fail. You know, the odds are against you. And it really takes, like you said, that resiliency to keep going. You know, the first couple of mine were failures. So it's like if I stopped, I would have never gotten to sense in it.

[B]

So there's a real paradox, I'm sure, that I feel like, you know, when you're, when you can afford to fail, you don't have the, you don't think you have the resources. And then when you came and you have more resources, you can't afford to fail because you have too much to lose in terms of comfort and responsibilities and all those things. But at the end of the day, if I've told myself, you know, what I'd be telling myself is that your number one resource, and you know this better than I, Cause you did it. But your number one resource is your. It's really between what's between your ears and your ability to act on it and drive that. And that's if. If that doesn't take money, that doesn't take outside help, that just takes, you know, that's. That number one resource is you. And it's not like funding or capital is going to whatever can ever replace your ideas or what you can do as an entrepreneur.

[A]

Yeah, I would agree with you, but I would also say that I've also learned that it's all about the team that you're surrounded with. And that team is so important. And it's hard to get that right mix of people. Believe it or not. You would think it would be easy because it's. Oh, no, you're hiring in a. You know, typically you hire as a reflection of yourself. And you either try to find folks that align with the way you think, but also compliment you because you don't want to hire people that aren't like you because that never works out either. Can't imagine a, you know, a team of me. What a nightmare that would be. But. But you've got to find those folks that align with you, but also compliment you and also challenge you too, because, you know, you're you're, you're not always right. And you have to listen more than speak, especially as you're building a company. Yeah.

[B]

I was probably even speaking more about like even getting started. Right. I firmly believe in the right team with all the characteristics. Right. Love collaboration, debate, in fact, you know, but I, when it. One of the reasons I joined Maximum to work with Mike was he didn't, he never viewed, because I worked with him past, he never viewed debate as dissension.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And I think debate as dissension. I would not be a good fit.

[A]

No, no, no.

[B]

But I'm saying about the resources to get off the ground. It's like you got a bootstrap and get it off the ground before you start. Think about a team.

[A]

That's right. Yeah. No, that's, you're absolutely right. I, I, I, I present on the Myers Briggs debate, debater and commander, like sort of in those, that zone. But I love debate because through the debate you're going to get the best ideas. Right. Whether they're yours or someone else's. But you got to have that interaction and people have to have the courage to be able to debate you, regardless of your role.

[B]

I've always said that to my teams, too, that, you know, that we're going to, we're going to, you know, kind of we're going to have, you know, debate at the debate at the table here, but then we'll go back and roll at our desk. But if we're, when we're done debating it and decide we're done, we're not going to take it out in this hallway. We're not going to take it to our best friend. Right.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So debate has a good place. It also needs to be, you know, we have some parameters and not rules, but looks like basic principles around it.

[A]

That's a maturity of the individual. Right. They've got to be at a level where they can debate but also recognize and not have, you know, not, not, not get too comfortable and wedded to their own ideas. Right. They've got to be open to accepting others and, and it's hard. It's, it's a hard thing to do, especially if you feel like you're right, but everyone else is telling you you're not. Right.

[B]

You got. I'm not good at that. I'm not good at that.

[A]

You got to listen. Yeah. All right. So you're on a desert island and you can bring five records with you. What would you bring? What you, yeah. What are your musical tastes?

[B]

So I'm going To. I'm going to. I'm going to bring Eagles with.

[A]

Okay, nice.

[B]

You got to have Hotel California with.

[A]

Nice. Yeah, that's good.

[B]

I'm probably going to have some Johnny Cash.

[A]

Oh, nice.

[B]

I'm gonna probably have Johnny Cash. I'm gonna have some Frank Sinatra.

[A]

Wow. Okay. Yeah.

[B]

And Bon Jovi. Some heavy metal.

[A]

Jovi. Sinatra and Jovi.

[B]

Holy cow.

[A]

That's great.

[B]

So kind of, you know, something to kind of chill with, something nostalgic and something to get my bud going, like.

[A]

Nice, nice. What about reggae? No reggae?

[B]

No, not really.

[A]

No.

[B]

Never. Never got that genre.

[A]

Ah, okay. You're on. How about Jimmy Buffett?

[B]

You know, I. I saw. I saw his concert with the Eagles, ironically, a couple summers ago here in town.

[A]

Oh, wow. How was that?

[B]

It was fun. It was fun.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, that's. That's cool. And what do you.

[B]

What do you.

[A]

What do you do? Like, what other hobbies do you have? I mean, writing is sort of a.

[B]

A vocation kind of. Yeah. Kind of read, write. I usually have a. I usually have a couple books going at a time.

[A]

What are you reading now?

[B]

I'm reading the Kid by Ben Bradley Jr. About Ted Williams.

[A]

Oh, nice.

[B]

Third time I've read it.

[A]

Really?

[B]

My wife always makes fun of me to read a lot of the same books twice, but what I find is the first time I read it, the second time I read a book, I've learned something. I've learned something new now. Something new. When I read that book, that stands out to me when I read the book.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. There's a book I read. It's called the Hard Things About Hard Things. And it's. It's written by a venture capitalist, actually. And it's just a great. It's a great read about starting businesses, like all of the challenges and all the mistakes you're going to make. And I've read that book three or four times, so I. I understand. I love reading books that I love a couple of different times. Because you're right, you do. You do uncover things in those books that you missed the first time around.

[B]

And it might just be my retention level, I'm not sure. But, you know, the other thing is, you know, with the walking we talked about, and I love podcasts, and I'm really hooked on the acquired podcast. Oh, yeah, that's a great. Corporate biographies. And hearing those stories about how did Costco become Costco and all the different inflection points they face to become the business they are. You know, these companies didn't just show up as trillion dollar or multi billion dollar market cap companies. They went through their, their changes and pivot points and decision making and how they built the companies and acquired is really, really interesting to me.

[A]

Yeah. What was, what was your biggest lesson in life was something that you learned either early on or later?

[B]

You know, that's an interesting question. I would say that. And again, this is old me and looking back in hindsight. Right. But I would say the biggest lesson I ever learned when I was working at a farm co op, I worked at a farm co op when I was 14 and that was a combination of gas station, repair shop, hardware store and farm seed and chemicals. Right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And what I learned early on was my ability to answer questions was more important than to talk about product specs. So what I figured out was in hindsight when I because I could do algebra, right. So I could do algebra to help the farmer figure out how much spray, how much water, what nozzle to buy in combination to help them spray their crop. So I could answer the question about those things and I knew nothing about the products. I would just say, well here's it does this many. I could look at the, I could look at the specs, I didn't know anything about them. And I do the algebra and say, well, you need this nozzle that does 14 gallons per acre. We're going to put that in a 100 gallon tank. So you need two 5 gallon pails of this, this anus, of this, of this spray. And that's what you're going to use for this particular field of 160 acres. Sold. I just sold three pieces. I just sold three things. That's great. So I think, so what I tell my, I've got a son in sales. I tell him this all the time is to remind him that people pay for your services or your stuff, but they buy your ideas.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

And that's really what I launched on in hindsight when I was 14 years old.

[A]

Love that. I love that. Yeah. How many jobs did you have when you were a kid? Do you ever think of that?

[B]

Quite a few. You know, actually I kept that one for a long time.

[A]

You did?

[B]

Yeah. But I was always really, I mean when I was eight years old, I was taking neighbors rhubarb, chop it up, put a plastic bag and resell it to them. Lover rhubarb.

[A]

We used to do that with, we said we. I lived on a well next to a golf course and we used to go and find the golf balls and then resell them back to the Golfers.

[B]

Yeah, it's always. You find somebody mowing their yard with their lawnmower, getting paid for it, raking up their leads, putting their bags, getting paid for it. So there's no, I had no cost of capital.

[A]

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's, it's amazing that kids don't do that anymore. Like, I always had jobs when I, I started working at nine years old. I don't understand why kids don't work more.

[B]

Yeah, we, we would. I grew up at a farm and we'd get like a dollar fifty, a half mile row to hoe sugar beets. And on a good day you could do 20, 20 rows, half mile down, half mile back. So there you go. That's 20 miles a day for, you know, for about, for 30 bucks. Big money.

[A]

Big money money. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Big money.

[B]

I'm still waiting for a kid to knock on my door to mow my yard. Not going to happen.

[A]

Not going to happen, Gus.

[B]

Well, I probably let him do it anyway because that's what my other, one of my other things I'm obsessed about is. Yard.

[A]

Yeah. All right, well, let's end with one question. You know, somebody comes to you coming out of school and wants advice, what would you give them?

[B]

Trust your instincts, you know, trust your gut a little bit more. If you see something that needs to be done, don't assume someone else is going to do it. Whether it be you have a job and you think, well, someone else will just do that, do it. Or if you see something like you think a need needs to be met in the marketplace, follow your instincts. And, and, and don't do like me, take the risk and start a business?

[A]

I love that. If you went back in time and saw your 20 year old self, would you tell your 20 year old self that?

[B]

Oh yeah, trust your instincts.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You believe me that I didn't know I had good instincts? But, but trust, trust it. You know, the, these businesses just don't show up. Right. You know, they don't come out of nowhere. They came out of someone thinking about it and taking the chance to do it.

[A]

Yeah. Well, someone with. That's interesting. So in your book, you should try to pull that thread on where you cr. When you crossed over to really understanding the obvious. Because if you don't have good, if you don't trust your instincts when you're younger. Right. The obvious. At some point you did. So where was that crossover for you?

[B]

Yeah, that's a great. I'm going to try to work on that. But you know, the whole kind of part of the point. Another kind of a part of the book is I don't want to say teaching, because that's just too high and mighty, but a little bit of it is letting people know that their observ. Their observational skills have value. And here's some of the things I observed, and maybe they're observing things as well. So it's kind of trying to unleash people to think like I can. Observation is a skill, and it does have.

[A]

Yeah, well, maybe you can write poetry, too, and you can be a poet like me.

[B]

Are you a poet?

[A]

I'm a published poet, yeah.

[B]

I would ask you to send us off in a poem, but I suppose that wouldn't be fair.

[A]

No, I'm not going to recite one on this show, but I'll send you. Actually, I worked on it. I just had one published about my time on a mink farm. I worked on a mink farm when

[B]

I was a kid. Well, then I'll reciprocate, and when my book is done, I'll send you a copy.

[A]

Okay, that sounds good. All right, I'll show you that. Gus, a pleasure talking to you. Really appreciate you and everything you do for healthcare and other industries. I appreciate it.

[B]

Always great to spend time with you. Thank you so much for having me.

[A]

You bet. Ed Gaudette from the Risk Never Sleeps podcast. And if you're on the front lines protecting patient safety and delivering patient care, remember to stay vigilant because risk never sleeps.