Jaz-O | ROC Solid w/ Memphis Bleek

Summary

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ROC Solid w/ Memphis Bleek: Jaz-O Episode Summary

Guest: Jaz-O
Host: Memphis Bleek
Date: February 10, 2026
Podcast: The Black Effect Podcast Network & iHeartPodcasts

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Episode Overview

This episode of ROC Solid finds Memphis Bleek in deep conversation with the legendary Jaz-O, regarded as a foundational figure in both hip-hop and the Marcy Projects scene. The interview is both a celebration and excavation—Jaz-O reflects on his pathbreaking career, his mentorship of Jay-Z and other artists, tales from hip-hop’s golden age, and the ongoing evolution of the culture and industry. They also explore topics of originality, independence, business, and legacy, combining candid recollections with practical advice for the new generation.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Giving Flowers: Memphis Bleek’s Homage to Jaz-O

• Bleek opens the episode expressing heartfelt gratitude, crediting Jaz-O as a mentor and pillar of Marcy (“Without this guy right here, I wouldn’t exist. My big homie wouldn’t exist. Half the you even spitting and you young boys rapping wouldn’t exist.” [02:46])
• Reflects on his own youth, watching Jaz-O and Jay-Z making dreams tangible for kids in the projects.
  • Quote: “Y’all made these dreams reality to me.” — Memphis Bleek [04:15]
• Early memories of being included, like riding in the infamous “pink tracker” to studio sessions.

2. The Early Days: Breaking Ground in Brooklyn

• Jaz-O recounts coming up as the first from Marcy to get a record deal, describing the lack of precedent and sense of “winging it.”
  • Quote: “There was really no precedence… there was nobody really that could speak of as a rap artist or lyricist having a record deal or career. The career part of it wasn’t etched in stone.” — Jaz-O [06:02]
• The “dance move” era—when being recognized meant blending lyrical skill and presence.

3. The First Meeting: Jaz-O & Jay-Z’s Origin Story

• Jazz credits Nike (of Shirt Kings) as the “Don King” who arranged their first meeting.
• The legendary first “battle” where Jay-Z and Jaz-O’s styles blended, debunking rumors that Jay stole his style:
  • Quote: “We collaborated for so long and so much that our styles became one. One style still sharp and still.” — Jaz-O [13:05]
• Reminiscence of banging on tables with Häagen-Dazs, Apple Jacks, and Fruit Loops, developing the signature rapid-fire routines. [14:56]

4. Tales from the Golden Era: Industry Battles & Unique Moments

• Addressing the rumor about battling LL Cool J, with vivid storytelling:
  • Quote: “Every rhyme that we spit was better than his… I’m not trying to disrespect L. L is a great lyricist... but that night… it was an off night for him.” — Jaz-O [26:55]
• Video recording of legendary cyphers—remains lost to time.

5. Early Lessons from the Industry

• Jaz-O’s main lesson: Be yourself.
  • Quote: “Be yourself, because… I see a lot, and I’ve known a lot of individuals before they had a name and I see them years later, and it’s like, who the fuck are you?” — Jaz-O [28:23]
• Studio discipline: Come prepared, don’t waste time or money.
  • Quote: “You coming to the studio to write the rhyme. Nigga, I gave you the beat last night. Write the rhyme in the house. We not here to spend money watching you write a rap.” — Memphis Bleek [29:17]

6. True Independence: DIY Before the Digital Age

• Jaz-O pressed vinyl and tapes himself in the late ‘80s and early ‘90s, before independent hustle was commonplace.
• Music circulated organically: “We put it on cassette tape and people was copying it, copying it... shit got as far down to like Florida.” — Jaz-O [37:50]
• Contrast with the effortless distribution options of today.

7. Legacy Tracks & Technical Innovation

• “The Originators” as the defining record—pioneering triplet flows and complex rhyme schemes.
  • Quote: “I had this rhyme that I wrote and it was too many syllables... I kind of doubled it up and kind of tripled it up… Jay said the same thing: yo, you should do that more.” — Jaz-O [45:08]
• The sonic and lyrical inventiveness that influenced the likes of Jay-Z.

8. Production Credits and Notable Collaborations

• Jaz-O produced foundational tracks such as “The Originators,” “Ain’t No,” and “Rap Game Crack Game.”
• Shared stories about Fresh Gordon, the making of “Push It” for Salt-N-Pepa (“He did that beat… he was like, just give me a couple grand.”) [33:46], and connections with fashion legend April Walker.

9. The Changing Face of Brooklyn & Hip-Hop’s Identity

• Critique of radio and programming leading to the homogenization of regional hip-hop sounds:
  • Quote: “We lost our identity… It was actually planned that way… In the city, meaning New York, they too progressive.” — Jaz-O [58:36]
• Recalls the era of Brand Nubian, De La Soul, and more conscious, innovative artists.

10. The Importance of Business, Ownership, and Teaching the Next Generation

• Key advice: Learn the business and don’t conflate creativity with success:
  • Quote: “In order for a song to be successful, it has to be exploited… It has to be planned. A real plan. Marketing. Everything has to go into it.” — Jazz-O & Memphis Bleek [61:23]
• Ownership = Control. Jaz-O explains why simple “ownership” (as traditionally defined) might be a distraction, but controlling your creative assets is essential.
  • Quote: “If you made it, you created it, you should own it… but as an individual, you’re not supposed to own anything. You’re supposed to control it.” — Jaz-O [81:02]

11. Legacy, Sincerity, and the Next Chapter

• Jaz-O wants to be remembered for sincerity and substance:
  • Quote: “It was all from the heart. I didn’t say things just to impress people. I’m still trying to keep impressing myself.” — Jaz-O [63:07, 67:25]
• Currently writing a series of books blending autobiography with lessons on lyricism, creativity (“poetic license, simile, double entendres”), and life.
• Aspires to impart not information, but experience—spiritual, physical, and creative—to contrast with today’s transactional approach to hip-hop.
• Final word on legacy: Not just “the man who put Jay-Z on,” but a creative force who valued originality and helped nurture the culture.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Innovation:
  “We collaborated for so long and so much that our styles became one. One style still sharp and still.” — Jaz-O [13:05]

• On Originality:
  “Be yourself... I’ve known a lot of individuals before they had a name and I see them years later, and it’s like, who the fuck are you?” — Jaz-O [28:23]

• On Business:
  “In order for a song to be successful, it has to be exploited… It has to be planned. A real plan. Marketing. Everything has to go into it.” — Jazz-O [61:23]

• On Legacy:
  “It was all from the heart. I didn’t say things just to impress people. I’m still trying to keep impressing myself.” — Jaz-O [63:07, 67:25]

• On Ownership:
  “If you made it, you created it, you should own it… but as an individual, you’re not supposed to own anything. You’re supposed to control it.” — Jaz-O [81:02]

• On Hip-Hop’s Evolution:
  “We lost our identity… It was actually planned that way… In the city, meaning New York, they too progressive.” — Jaz-O [58:36]

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Important Timestamps

• 02:46 — Opening homage to Jaz-O, roots of Marcy Projects, Bleek’s youth
• 05:21 — Reflections on breaking ground as Marcy’s first signed rapper
• 08:23 — Story of first meeting Jay-Z and Nike’s role
• 13:03 — Debunking “style thief” rumors, merging with Jay-Z’s style
• 21:01 — The legendary LL Cool J battle story
• 28:23 — Lessons learned: be yourself, discipline and preparation
• 31:29 — Jaz-O’s early independent/DIY music distribution
• 42:52 — Defining moment: “The Originators” and the mystical triplet flow
• 56:55 — Jaz-O’s commentary on Brooklyn’s changing hip-hop identity
• 60:27 — Advice: Importance of creativity, business smarts, and marketing
• 63:07 — What legacy means to Jaz-O
• 76:27 — Upcoming projects: Jaz-O’s book series, teaching creativity
• 81:02 — The philosophy of ownership versus control

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Tone & Style

• Straightforward, Honest, and Respectful: Genuine Brooklyn camaraderie, with both speakers keeping “it real” about the culture and their lived experience.
• Reflective, Candid, and Often Philosophical: Jaz-O is unafraid to challenge accepted wisdom, mixing street smarts with deeper life lessons.
• Celebratory but Unfiltered: The episode doesn’t shy from tough topics—be it industry exploitation, faded originality, or misconceptions around legacy.

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For the Listener

If you want hip-hop history straight from the source—beyond the usual headlines—this episode is a treasure trove. It’s a masterclass not just in rap, but in the art of surviving and thriving in a changing business. Jaz-O’s story, his chemistry with Memphis Bleek, and their shared respect and humor make this essential listening for anyone invested in the roots and future of the culture.

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Transcript

[Jazz-O]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Podcast Sponsor Voice]

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[Angela Yee]

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[Jazz-O]

All.

[Memphis Bleak]

This your main man, Memphis Bleak, right here. Welcome to Rock Solid, a production of iHeartRadio and the Black Effect Network in partnership with my gods over at Drink Champs.

[Jazz-O]

You should know by now. You should know by now.

[Memphis Bleak]

Yeah, y', all, you know what it is. Back with another exclusive Rock Solid podcast, kicking off a new season with a legend, a og, a mentor of mine, a Marcy staple. Without this guy right here, I wouldn't exist. My big homie wouldn't exist. Half the you even spitting and you young boys rapping wouldn't exist. So let's make sure we welcome and honor the legendary Jazzo to the building. My brother, man, how you been, man?

[Jazz-O]

Oh, great, man, great.

[Memphis Bleak]

So good to see you. My guys been vice versa.

[Jazz-O]

I know.

[Memphis Bleak]

Joe, I wanted to bring you here. Like we spoke on the phone and I know you was like, yo, my partner. Like, yo, what Bleak even what they want, what they bring. I'm like, I just wanted to give you your flowers, show you the respect. Because as a 13 year old kid watching you and Jay. Let's go all the way back, right? Let's go all the way back.

[Jazz-O]

All right, let's go.

[Memphis Bleak]

You pulling up in the projects with two Black Panthers, shooting the video as a 12, 13 year old kid. That meant everything to me to see, like, you was the first guy from Marcy to have a deal coming through with Big Daddy Kane. You know what I mean? You and Jay, I turn on video music box, y' all got a video. The guy that live in my next building, Chase, who out there dancing in front of the building, is on tv. So y' all made these for real?

[Jazz-O]

Yes.

[Memphis Bleak]

Y' all made these dreams reality to me. And it was like. And then to see y' all in the projects and able to talk to you and be like, yo, yo, I remember seeing you in the elevator. It was me, you, and Jay. And I was like, yo, Jazz, yo, how you make a hook, man? I can't write a hook for to save my life.

[Jazz-O]

I remember that.

[Memphis Bleak]

Yeah. And you was like, yo, just keep writing, man. Just keep writing. And it's going to get you going to get it. You won't get it. Yeah, I still can't make a hook.

[Jazz-O]

I got to put out a book.

[Memphis Bleak]

Word up. Like, them days. Are you picking me up in the. We had the pink tracker that felt like me leaving my building, getting in the new sprinter van today that these kids riding In. That's how getting in that tracker felt to me. To go to the studio working with you with Skee, everybody, I was just, like, honored to be like, yo, y' all pick me. So what was it like for you coming out in the 80s, being the first guy from Marcy, basically putting this whole movement on?

[Jazz-O]

Well, the funny part about it is that you don't realize what you've done until hindsight. You know what I'm saying? Like, even in your beginnings, like, you, like, you geek, but at the same time, you having fun.

[Memphis Bleak]

Yes.

[Jazz-O]

And it was just. There was really. No. How should I say? There was really no precedence. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So the experiences that I had, like, I couldn't say, like, yo, let me talk to such and such about it, because he experienced the two. There was nobody.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's right. It was the first one and only.

[Jazz-O]

Exactly. So. And I appreciate that. So. So dealing with that, it was just handling it like who I was as far as my maturity. It was like I was geeked. But at the same time, I was like, I don't even know where this road ends. I don't know what this path or where this path leads to. So I'm just like, all I know is I got rhyme skills and I could do a 360, and I rhyme better than everybody.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's right. Cause you had to have a dance.

[Jazz-O]

Move back then, you know what I'm saying? You know, I had people who came to the projects, they used to come to the projects to, you know, they like, yo, we heard about this dude Jazz, and this, this, that and the other. He ain't better than me. And, you know, I used to just be play coy and, you know, let rhyme. They got the music out. Niggas try to put me on front, you know what I'm saying? And I had to spank them. That's right. So that. That's what I climbed off of, like, that experience. Because there was no precedence. There was. There were nobody. There was nobody really that could speak of as a rap artist or lyricist having a record deal or career. You know what I'm saying? The career part of it wasn't etched in stone, so.

[Shopify Sponsor Voice (Alternate)]

That's right.

[Jazz-O]

It's like, yo, I'm just winging it.

[Memphis Bleak]

Yes. Cause back then, think in the 80s, back in those days, saying you gonna be a rapper was equivalent to saying, yo, I'm going to the NBA, right? People looking at you like, okay, right. I'm gonna stand here and sell these drugs while you Playing the new one.

[Jazz-O]

Right, right, right. So, yeah. So it was ill, man.

[Memphis Bleak]

I always wanted to know, like, when did the connection with you and Jay started? Like, that don't even seem real. That question to me. Cause people always ask me, yo, how is it working with Jay? Like, when did Jay discover you and this and that? And it's like, I'm asking you, when did you discover Jay is insane.

[Jazz-O]

Well, first and foremost, I gotta give credit to Nike. From the Shirt King.

[Memphis Bleak]

Yep. Shirt King. Shout out Nike. And that's crazy. He lived in my building, too.

[Jazz-O]

Exactly.

[Memphis Bleak]

Word up.

[Jazz-O]

Exactly. You were in the legend.

[Memphis Bleak]

Word up. It was legendary shit going on in the building.

[Jazz-O]

Definitely.

[Angela Yee]

Word.

[Jazz-O]

So Nike. Nike and I knew each other through my man Steve Crosland, may he rest in power. We met a long time ago. And so basically, I was just coming back from. I dropped out of college. I was actually going to college in. In VA at Old Dominion University.

[Memphis Bleak]

Wow.

[Jazz-O]

It wasn't for me, you know, I still wanted to be in the street. I wanted to rhyme. You know what I'm saying? So none of that shit fit together. So. So I was like, I. So I came back home, I got a job, and amidst me getting a job, I'm like, man, fuck this job. You know how I started doing the other thing?

[Memphis Bleak]

Yep, yep.

[Jazz-O]

And then, you know. So basically, Nike was like, he's. Nike was telling me, he said, him. Johnny, who also lived around your way.

[Memphis Bleak]

I remember Johnny. Yep.

[Jazz-O]

So him, Johnny and somebody else, they were having an argument over, like, who was the best in the projects. And Nike was saying, like, I don't know what the fuck y' all talking about. That nigga Jazz just came home from school. You know what I'm saying? Jazz is better than everybody. So that started like Nike became the Don King. Putting motherfuckers together, whether they gonna battle or collaborate. You know what I'm saying? So. So night he put it together, and me and Jay, we met in. Not. Not. Not as far as the lane, but on Park Ave. When you first. When cars used to just drive in.

[Memphis Bleak]

Oh, oh.

[Jazz-O]

And then you go back toward the park in the lane. On. On. On my side. So we met in front of. It was like, between my buildings, which is the Rent office building and 624. So we were standing. We was all standing right there. And just me, night and Jay and a couple other cats. They probably mad at me if they see this. Like, yo, yo, remember me standing there?

[Memphis Bleak]

I'm standing right there, yo.

[Jazz-O]

They always.

[Memphis Bleak]

Niggas, what they shot out hell yeah.

[Jazz-O]

So shout out to y' all niggas that. I don't remember exactly.

[Memphis Bleak]

You know, who you was.

[Jazz-O]

Exactly. So. So he put it together. So Jay was standing there, you know, we introduced each other, and it was like, so who. Who gonna rhyme first? Jay was like. And I was like, yeah, yeah.

[Memphis Bleak]

Y' all both quiet.

[Shopify Sponsor Voice (Alternate)]

Yeah.

[Memphis Bleak]

So.

[Jazz-O]

Yeah, So I was like, you know, in my mind. And I'm sure it was in his mind, too. Was like, I don't. I'm being nice, but I don't really give a. Because I know my skill level. So. So basically I said it. Let me spit something so I rhyme, you know, the little oohs and ahs and then the crowd, because they. They are a new.

[Shopify Sponsor Voice (Alternate)]

I was.

[Jazz-O]

And I'm not. I'm not tooting my. Well, I am tooting my own horn it right if I don't do it now, when that's right, you know, I was already a legend when I. By the time I got back from school, I was already a legend in the projects and in Brooklyn.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's a fact. Everybody knew.

[Jazz-O]

So. So I rhymed. And the crowd, you know, we built up a little crowd. And then J. Ron, and I was like, oh. And I. And I'm not even. I'm not even exaggerating. I'm like, for all. And we gonna put this out there for all the people who say that, Jay, you know, because you got some people out there, they say, jay Jack my whole style and all this type of. It was like, nah. We collaborated for so long and so much that our styles became one.

[Memphis Bleak]

One style still sharp and still.

[Jazz-O]

Man, exactly.

[Memphis Bleak]

Yes.

[Jazz-O]

So. So we. We need to have that out in the world, you know, for all of the people that like drama and conflict. Yeah.

[Memphis Bleak]

Jay stole everybody's style. They. That's what they say. So.

[Jazz-O]

Right, right.

[Memphis Bleak]

But so.

[Jazz-O]

Yo, ain't nothing.

[Memphis Bleak]

He's a style thief.

[Jazz-O]

Right, right. You know, and. And every. Everybody took this or that from somewhere, you know what I'm saying?

[Memphis Bleak]

We all learn off each other. That's what life is about.

[Jazz-O]

Right? And you. You just put your own. Your own spiel, your own signature. Yeah. Yes. So. So J. Ron. And I was like, damn, it's like I ain't even finished rhyming. Like, I'm like, this nigga's rhyming, but I'm rhyming like, you know what I'm saying? I almost knew what he was going to say, but he was. You know, he had certain aspects to his game that. That were new to me and I'm sure vice versa. So what started out to be a battle, you know, it was just us rhyming. So we just, you know, we kicked about two or three more rhymes apiece. And then, you know, niggas just went about they business. But me and Jay, we started linking up and, you know, and writing together. So we started writing routines and all that shit. And, you know, like, when you hear, like, in certain books or, you know, you hear Jay talk about, you know, or records, you know, we banging on the table, you know, with the Haagen Dazs ice cream and the Apple Jacks and Fruit Loops. We as high as on sugar. That was crazy. You know, rhyming, going back and forth.

[Memphis Bleak]

Sweets as hell. Yeah, that's crazy.

[Jazz-O]

And so that's. That's how I started. And we was like, you know, some like. Like Erie or somebody would have the music out.

[Memphis Bleak]

Yeah, rest in peace. Erie, man.

[Jazz-O]

Yeah, definitely rest in peace.

[Memphis Bleak]

You know what. He bring them speakers out. The whole projects came out, man.

[Jazz-O]

Yes, indeed.

[Memphis Bleak]

Word, man. Damn.

[Jazz-O]

Yes, indeed. So. Oh, not bad.

[Memphis Bleak]

You good.

[Jazz-O]

So me and Jay, we used to. We used to come out. We had. I don't know where Jay got it from, but, yeah, this little. It's a rolling drum machine. It's called a DDM110. And he. He actually introduced me to that because, you know, I was into the big machines. I never saw, like, you know, so he's like, yeah, I got this. This drum machine, the DDM 110. And long story short, we was like, yo, we going to the music. Like, Harry got the music out. We going over there. Usually. Every time. It was crazy. Every time the music was out, will find a way to find either me or Jay, because they know if they found him, you know, he would. He would come get me and vice versa.

[Memphis Bleak]

Yeah.

[Jazz-O]

And we go to the music, and we would shut the down. We was like. I don't know if you ever saw this old Bugs Bunny cartoon. He was playing like a composer. And he walks into the. He walks into the. The opera house or the. The auditorium, and they going, Leopold, Leopold, Leopold, Leopold. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, here they come, here they come. And it was like that all the time. And we would shut down. I'd get on the DDM 110. He bombed. And then, you know, he just do one of them, you know, yo, Jazz, my buddy, my ace. Don't you. You know, on the money, cold rock. We gotta switch up the switch. Not just switch the mics, but we gotta switch up the drum machine, you know what I'm saying? We had that down to science. Like that's when it started and it never stopped from there.

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[Memphis Bleak]

All. It's a rumor that y' all even once I don't know if it's true that y' all battle ll or something right?

[Jazz-O]

Oh this what happened. This involved. This involves source money shout out sauce money.

[Memphis Bleak]

Another legendary spitter.

[Jazz-O]

Mm. Shout out to source. Even though you know we don't be speaking. You know what I'm saying?

[Shopify Sponsor Voice (Alternate)]

I love you.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's right.

[Jazz-O]

I'm saying don't ever forget that.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's right, man. Always love sauce money, man.

[Jazz-O]

So basically we were at one of these industry parties, so we were outside And Dre, I don't know why he was carrying it, but them big ass VHS cameras, the big.

[Memphis Bleak]

Oh, the shoulder joint. Yeah, I remember those.

[Jazz-O]

Yup.

[Memphis Bleak]

News reporters.

[Jazz-O]

Word, Word. You could. You couldn't be. You couldn't be a weak nigga carrying. So he had that again. The other people that were there, I don't remember everybody that was there.

[Memphis Bleak]

Shout out the ones that was there. You know who was there.

[Jazz-O]

Exactly. So. So basically we were all standing outside. So me, Jay saw us. Dre, I don't know if Vi was there. I think Vi was there too.

[Memphis Bleak]

Shout out. OG Vies indeed.

[Jazz-O]

He's like, I don't know. So. So LL and some other cat, they walk by. And around this time, like, Source, he was doing that all the time. Like every time we went to industry party or whatever, Source was always trying to battle. And he would be looking at like. So you don't know if I'm. I'm putting myself in the place of the people that he's staring at. Like, I wouldn't know whether he. He won a battle or he got beef.

[Memphis Bleak]

Yeah, it's gang or we going, yeah. Or it's rap and stuff.

[Shopify Sponsor Voice (Alternate)]

Yeah.

[Memphis Bleak]

Because gang. Source did have that look as like a ice cube back in the day when he was a young dude. Like, you didn't know, like, right? Yeah. You see a, like, Source just looking at you like, yo, what type of time homie on? He definitely got that look.

[Jazz-O]

Exactly. So he was. So he. He was staring at LL and, you know, doing this type of like, what up?

[Shopify Sponsor Voice (Alternate)]

Yeah.

[Jazz-O]

I'm like, oh, man. It's like. So somebody said something. And I think he said it some. Something to the extent of like, you don't want it or some shit like that. Like, that's. That's the shit he was on. He's like, you don't want it? And LL was like, you know, I know his mindset. He was like, I got a deal and I'm rich.

[Memphis Bleak]

Yeah.

[Jazz-O]

You know, you know, whatever you say, you say, but it's man's. I know his man's told him something to the effect of like, it's too many people looking and the called you out, so you just keep it moving, you know? Yeah, it's gonna. It's gonna come out. Yeah, yeah. So. So LL turned around and he came back and, you know, Sauce explained like, yo, yo, what's up? Let's do it. So Sauce started ramen this crazy. So. So I started rhyming, right? And then LL Rhyme. And the funny part, I'm gonna tell you, it's funny. It didn't happen yet, but then after LL Rhyme, then J. Ron, and LL was already doing what I'm about to tell you before that, but he really got into it, like, so J. Ron. And then LL rhymed again. And when LL started ramen this staring at me.

[Memphis Bleak]

No way.

[Jazz-O]

Way. I'm like. I'm like, first in my head, I'm like, first, I'm surprised. Like, first off, you already know you don't want it with me. And second, like, I didn't say nothing to you, but, you know, guilt by association.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's right.

[Jazz-O]

And he didn't really. To be honest, he didn't really know Sauce or Jay. Well, he knew. He was slightly familiar with Jay through me.

[Memphis Bleak]

Yes.

[Jazz-O]

And you know Jay's exploits in Queens way back when. So. So. So. So basically, he's rhyming. That means. So I'm like one of those. They. They basically drew me into the whole. So I started rhyming, and that's basically how I went down. I wouldn't. I wouldn't say who won or lost, but I know that every rhyme that we3 spit was better than his. And I'm not. I'm not trying to disrespect L. L is a great lyricist and everything else. One thing I like about L.L. he's in pocket. His timing. You know what I'm saying? But I'm just saying that that night. And I'm sure, you know, I'm sure it was. It was an off night for him, you know, caught him off guard or whatever. But, I mean, me personally, like, I don't off guard. On guard like you. And it's me, but.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's right.

[Jazz-O]

But it was. It was one of those things, and it was. It was a battle, but it wasn't a battle. And the crazy part about it is Dre was recording the whole. And I was trying. I was like, damn, that. That VHS probably corroded about 25 years.

[Memphis Bleak]

Ago, my G, that got circulated through the hood like Kane Murder taping.

[Jazz-O]

You know what I'm saying? So. It was wild. It was wild.

[Memphis Bleak]

Yeah, man.

[Jazz-O]

Damn.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's. That's ill that, y'. All. That LL even at that level in his career, would even stop and. And rhyme.

[Jazz-O]

But he. He was. He wasn't on his own, but his man's like, yo, it's probably better there. Yeah. And. And. And I respected it. I. I would. Me, personally, I would have respected both if he had just kept it moving, you know? And then the fact that He. I kind of respected a little more the fact that he turned around.

[Memphis Bleak]

Yeah, Got to, man, like. Cause me, I ain't battling nobody outside the club, man. Come in the show and see what they paying me to do.

[Jazz-O]

Exactly. Exactly.

[Memphis Bleak]

Straight up. So back then, being like, the first in the game, like you, like you said, there was no president, there was nobody to talk to. What is some of the early lessons you would say you learned from, you know, being in the music industry?

[Jazz-O]

And it sounds. It sounds so cliche, but be yourself because. And fortunately for us, we grew up in Marcy, so it was a lot easier, especially outside of Marcy or outside of that element, for us to be ourselves. You know, I see a lot of. I see a lot. And I've known a lot of individuals who I've known before they had a name, and I see them years later, and it's like, who the fuck are you?

[Memphis Bleak]

That's right.

[Jazz-O]

You know what I'm saying? It's like. It's like me and you. Like, before the cameras came on, you know, we were on the phone. We talking about shit that happened 30, 35 years ago.

[Memphis Bleak]

It's a fact, yo.

[Jazz-O]

Nothing.

[Memphis Bleak]

They never change, bro. Like, that's the thing. Like, in this game, like, being early. I remember you and B High used to be on me. Yo, if you ain't 10 minutes early, you 10 minutes late. You know what I mean? Stuff like that, being in the studio with you, all that. Yo, you. You coming to the studio to write the rhyme. Nigga, I gave you the beat last night. Write the rhyme in the house. We not here to spend money watching you write a rap, right? Like, come prepared. Don't come to the studio wasting time. Then being in the studio. Remember writing the rhyme in the studio. You on me. Like, you don't even. You can't memorize a rhyme you just wrote. You supposed to perfect it, then come. So that way we could be in here 15 minutes, get outta here. They charging us by the hour. We finish the song in 20 minutes and we done. We save our money. Those gyms, bro. I still go to, like, I just play and go to the studio certain times. Like, I got an engineer in Orlando, my homie Sharp, and he say all the time, yo, bro, you need to shoot your studio sessions because other artists need to learn. How you doing this. This is not normal preparation. Yeah, he like, I never seen somebody come and do two, three songs in an hour.

[Jazz-O]

That's. That's regular shit.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's what I'm saying. And I learned that from you like you B High J. Y' all the ones who taught me etiquette, business, being a man, integrity. And number one, anything I ever asked you about rap, be yourself. Stop rapping like Dodge Effects. I remember I spent a rap. Stop rapping like Daze Effects. I was like, all right, I got you. And I'm thinking, I'm killing it. But those was gems that, like you said, man, be yourself.

[Jazz-O]

Definitely.

[Memphis Bleak]

You know what I'm saying? So that's. That's. You was the first two, like, the game is switch, everybody independent, bro. You was doing independent in the early 90s, pressing up. Wasn't even CDs. You was pressing up, vinyl tapes, really running around. What was that like to be, like, a pioneer of that game, bro?

[Jazz-O]

I mean, I could sit here and talk like, it was so methodical and all this other shit and strategies and shit. No, I was just doing what I felt needed to be done, you know what I'm saying? You know, in 80, 85, me, Jay KG and Spanks, cousins LD and Almond Joy, you know, everyone Jason, Long island, we did a song called HP Gets Busy. You know what I'm saying? And fortunately, I had somebody who was really pushing for that, you know, pushing for. For me as an artist to be successful. And he came up with the idea like, yo, let's. Let's do a vinyl. I mean, that was all. Wasn't no CDs, so it was vinyls. And so we did a vinyl. And it just so happened that he was my manager at the time, and he was also the father of April Walker, a Walker Wear.

[Memphis Bleak]

Oh, shit.

[Shopify Sponsor Voice (Alternate)]

Damn.

[Memphis Bleak]

Walker Wear. That was that shit for a minute back in the day.

[Jazz-O]

Yeah, yeah, word, I think. Yeah. She brought it back out. She brought it back out.

[Memphis Bleak]

Crazy.

[Jazz-O]

Yeah. So. So shout out to Jack Walker, April Walker, Jackie Walker, Tahira, you know, they. That's family, you know what I'm saying? So. So, yeah, so. So we circulated. We circulated that. Even before that, I had done some work with Fresh Gordon.

[Memphis Bleak]

You know, Legends, man. You name it. Legends, right?

[Jazz-O]

Yeah. So Gordon used to do, you know, he used to do work with the Fat Boys. I called him and asked him before another interview I was having, could I tell the story about. About the song Push it by Salt and Pepper?

[Memphis Bleak]

No way.

[Jazz-O]

Gordon produced that. Gordon made that beat and he made it so quick and easy. And I'm not belittling the song, the song is a big, big song. But he did it so quick that he was like, you know, he told. He told. He told Herbie, Love Bug, he's like, just give me. You know, just give me a couple of grand, you know what I'm saying? To take it. Jp, who was his manager at the time, Scott JP Edmond, he was like, yo, he's offering you some publishing. Take the publishing, Gordon. That's just how he was. He's like, yo, just give me the money. And y' all just get out my face so I could go do other shit that I'm doing, and me and Jazz could get back to working on songs and shit. So what happened was he did that beat, and I talked to him a few times. I said, I know you. I know you be punching yourself in the face.

[Memphis Bleak]

Hell, yeah. That's some cultural classic.

[Jazz-O]

Like, exactly.

[Memphis Bleak]

Like, it's in movies, commercials. Like, they got it in the new Peloton commercial, if I'm not mistaken. Yeah, like, insane. And you sold that for $2,000.

[Jazz-O]

But, you know, and then back then.

[Memphis Bleak]

2,000 was like 20 grand today.

[Jazz-O]

Right? And then, you know, in his defense, it was like, we. Back then, we never really saw any publishing money, and we had limited knowledge of what publishing was all about and. And how these record companies would actually take the publishing, you know what I'm saying? And. And they were making money, but publishing was a big secret, you know what I'm saying? They. You know that the record companies used to tell you back then that, oh, don't worry about it. No, publishing, don't worry about it. You're gonna make all your money doing shows, going on tour. They. And I mean, they lit. I seen it. I don't want to say no names, but they've said it, you know.

[Memphis Bleak]

No, I believe it. Because so many artists from back then, you. You hear the same story, man. And it's not. It's not just a coincidence. Everybody got the same story.

[Jazz-O]

Right? Right. Yeah. This is ill. Like, so. Damn, I forgot what the we was talking about.

[Memphis Bleak]

No, I was. I was just saying, like, the independent, pressing up the music. And. And like, I said, you was pressing up vinyl. These guys out here find it difficult to hit send. Think about it. All you gotta do is hit send, and it goes on every platform. And these guys act like they doing hard work. I still don't know where to press up a vinyl at. Like, and I was in the vinyl era, right.

[Jazz-O]

You know what's funny? There's a. What was that shit? I think it was on South 4th street on the south side in Brooklyn. They had this. This spot that used to do all of the. They used to make the dub plates for all of the, you know, all the. I don't want to say Jamaican, but I'll say, like reggae and everything calypso related to that. They used to do all the dub plates for that. But yeah, and. And another way that the music circulated. Like, I found, like me and Gordon, we found out that we had done a couple of songs and we put it on cassette tape and people was copying it, copying it, copying it. And this shit got as far down to like Florida, you know what I'm saying? They was like, yeah, I heard Luke Skywalker got your cassette.

[Memphis Bleak]

Damn, that's major. Back then. Cause there was no distribution, no YouTube, no Instagram. So to get a tape, a record from New York to Florida, that mean that it was hand delivered.

[Jazz-O]

Exactly.

[Memphis Bleak]

Straight up.

[Jazz-O]

Exactly.

[Memphis Bleak]

Like, that's insane. And I don't think these kids even understand the magnitude on how hard it was to promote music back then. It was not as easy. And I could just say, like, music is just is everywhere. You can't even escape it anymore.

[Jazz-O]

Right?

[Memphis Bleak]

Like, it's in your face. Back then, if you walk by the music store, you didn't think about music for the rest of the day back then. I know, I know. Think about it. If you went in the sneaker store and bought and said, yo, I'm gonna spend my last on these J's records, didn't matter. Like, okay, I go in the house and watch video music box. And after that, it's whatever. I watch NBA. But today, music, TV, cable, phone, iPad, like anywhere you look, music is so accessible today.

[Podcast Sponsor Voice]

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[Memphis Bleak]

What'S one moment or record you feel proves your legacy better than headlines could ever do?

[Jazz-O]

Um, the Originators Classic. And. And the thing about it is that I had done something that nobody else did. And the, the history on that was shout out to David Gregory, AKA Cool kg DJ from. From Marcy. Shout out to him because he used to let us come in the crib. You know, he had the 808. That was the, the first machine he had. He had the 808 and he was DJing, you know. You know, Gregory family.

[Memphis Bleak]

Yeah.

[Jazz-O]

Nate, Dave, Spank on Down was always out with the music. So we used to go, a few of us like going in and, and rhyme. You know, I actually met, I actually met Gordon Fresh Gordon through kg.

[Memphis Bleak]

Damn, that's crazy.

[Jazz-O]

And so. Yeah, I lost my thought.

[Memphis Bleak]

No, no, no, you good. I got you. I said the record defining your moment. Better than Headlines. You said the Originator. Right.

[Jazz-O]

So what happens is the history behind the Originators was that I was, you know, me and kg, we used to do what was really called a mixtape. That was the original meaning of a mixtape back then. It wasn't like a bunch of songs. It was like a DJ cutting shit up, cutting up beats and MC Ramen. That was a mixtape and it was literally a tape. So, so I was, I was going up the KG crib. We. And we was doing tapes. So one day I had this rhyme that I wrote and it was too many syllables to fit in. Sixteen, you know, like 1 16, you know, like for 4 4ths for a measure. And so I had to squeeze the word in. And you know, I ain't want to be offbeat, so I kind of, I kind of doubled it up and kind of tripled it up. So. So after we would make a tape a lot of times, you know, And I. I used to drink beer back then. We would get. It was before the 40 ounce. It was the 32 ounce.

[Memphis Bleak]

I remember those. The 32.

[Jazz-O]

Yes. We would go. We would go to 297 park and sit on the bench at 297.

[Memphis Bleak]

Yep. Two nine. That still there, man. Yeah.

[Jazz-O]

With the. With the JVC. KG had a couple of JVCs. One. Remember the. The one JVC with the one big woofer.

[Memphis Bleak]

So that was the block party specialist.

[Jazz-O]

So we was. We would sit there. We would sit there and listen to our work. And KG kept rewinding the part where I doubled up on a word. And he was like, yo, how'd you do that? I was like, I just did it. And he was like, yo, you should do that more. And then incidentally. And they didn't hear. They didn't hit like Jada and hear KG say that. But Jay said the same thing. He was like, yo, you should do that more. And I was like, interesting. And me at. You gotta understand me. At the time I was at. I was the. I was the apex predator mc, not only in. In Marcy, but in Brooklyn.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's right.

[Jazz-O]

So I didn't really give a. About, like, yo. You know, like, I feel like I. I felt like I already impressed everybody. So the only person left for me to impress is myself. And I know that sounds. It is. What the fuck it is, you mean, you know, but no, that's.

[Memphis Bleak]

You, right?

[Austin Hankwitz]

You do.

[Memphis Bleak]

Gotta impress yourself, man. Like, if you unhappy, if you ain't impressed by your own work, then you ain't. You can't be writing rhymes just for the people around you.

[Jazz-O]

Right. It's a problem.

[Memphis Bleak]

Yes.

[Jazz-O]

And I do the same thing with beats. Like a beat that I. I make. And I don't. I'm not crazy about it. Like, you'll never hear it. You'll never hear a beat that I made that I didn't like because I turned the machine off. Erase everything. So. So to get to. To get back to. To that, like, Jay was like, yo, you should do that more. And then in our routines, we started doing this and all around. And this was a pivotal time because this was around the time that I had eventually got a record deal, like a single deal with Tommy Boy Records. And it was for R B. It was.

[Memphis Bleak]

Damn.

[Shopify Sponsor Voice (Alternate)]

Yeah.

[Jazz-O]

So I did this song called I'm In Love. And I had featured on a B side because Gordon had A deal with Tommy Boy, too. He's the one who put me on the Tommy Boy, and. Or I should say he put them on to me. And we did this song called My Fela, which was the answer to my Adidas. Yeah. And that went over real well. And so to get back to Jay saying, like, yo, should do. Should do that more. Around this time was the time that, you know, the single deal was over with, and me and Gordon, we were still doing music together. And this cat, Marlon Prescott. I know, I know you probably know who Steve Prescott was. I know.

[Memphis Bleak]

I heard him.

[Jazz-O]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So. So Marlon, he started coming through, you know, the Gordon's crib. He heard me. He was like, yo, you need to be on a major record company. This is like, yeah, okay. Because, you know, we. We young. It's like, yo, I'm gonna do records. I'm getting money out here. That's right. About no record company.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's right.

[Jazz-O]

So. So long story short, he set up a meeting, and I'm. I'm gonna kind of kill it there because that goes into a whole intertwined. So when I got the deal, I. I told Jay that I got the deal, and I asked Jay, like, yo, they sending me out to London. It's like, you with it. He was like, yeah. And he had to get. You know, he had to get consent because he was under 18. And that's around the time they. My management introduced us to Irv Gotti.

[Memphis Bleak]

God bless Irv Gotti.

[Jazz-O]

Rest in power. So we. So that's what. That's what happened. So Irv was reluctant to go, but he came. He came with us, and then that happened. So then. So then the second album, I wanted to get Jay more involved, you know, on the creative end, because Jay, for the most part, he was doing. He was doing, like, little ad libs, one liners, and on my. On my out. Because I wanted to associate him or no.

[Memphis Bleak]

Yes.

[Jazz-O]

In some kind of way.

[Memphis Bleak]

Nothing was funnier than him falling out the sky. Hawaiian Sophie.

[Jazz-O]

That's crazy. Yo, if you see this, I apologize, man. I. I apologize. It was not my intent to have you looking crazy like that, you know, for that time.

[Memphis Bleak]

It wasn't.

[Jazz-O]

It was. Yeah, it wasn't.

[Memphis Bleak]

That was fly. We was in the projects hype. But growing up and getting older and the way the world went, it's like, yeah, I go, yo, J, where you came from, dog?

[Shopify Sponsor Voice (Alternate)]

But you can't.

[Jazz-O]

That's. That's because he. He created such a brand where unless you see it on video, you can't even imagine that it started from that point.

[Memphis Bleak]

Yes. He was like, what, 16, 17 in that video?

[Jazz-O]

He was like 6. Let me see. I don't even remember. He was like. He's like. He's like, let me see. We had already gone to London. I think he was 17 or 18.

[Memphis Bleak]

Yeah, look, that's crazy, man. That's insane. Yeah, that's insane. That was fire. Like that video, The Originator song, man. Y' all doing that song. Who produced that record?

[Jazz-O]

I did.

[Memphis Bleak]

You made the Originator beat, too?

[Jazz-O]

You talking about the first one, the original?

[Memphis Bleak]

Yes.

[Jazz-O]

Yeah, yeah, I made that beat.

[Memphis Bleak]

You did? Ain't no Too, right?

[Jazz-O]

Yes.

[Memphis Bleak]

And Rap Game Crack Game.

[Jazz-O]

Yes.

[Memphis Bleak]

I don't think you get enough credit for your. For your drum pads, dog. Like, your air on these beats. You made classics and just chill.

[Jazz-O]

But you. Yeah, yeah. I. You know, and I have to. I have to be accountable for that because a part of me regrets it, because I'm like, yo, like, the. Is wrong with you. Like, you should keep going. You talk about you. You know. You know what they say. Like, you can't. You can't complain about something that you're not going to do anything about. You know what I'm saying?

[Memphis Bleak]

That's right.

[Jazz-O]

So I. I was guilty of that. You know, I would complain about how.

[Memphis Bleak]

How.

[Jazz-O]

Up the industry was becoming. Well, the. The hip hop part. I mean, the entertainment. We ain't going to. That. It started out up, but I couldn't. I couldn't rightfully say anything about it and not respond in a way or to become the counterbalance to the. To the bull, or at least what I saw as. So that's kind of. This is kind of like a. This is kind of like a re. Rehashing of. Of jazz O. You know, because, you know, don't let the gray hairs fool you. No, man.

[Memphis Bleak]

Great. That's that wisdom, boy. Like, you've been putting it down forever, bro. Like, think about it. Those three records, you the Originator. Ain't no Rap Game Crack Game. Those three records have changed any producer or artist, rapper's life like it did Jay.

[Jazz-O]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Memphis Bleak]

Straight up. Cause everything changed after Ain't no.

[Jazz-O]

Yeah, that's a fact.

[Memphis Bleak]

Straight up. Everything changed after Ain't no.

[Jazz-O]

You know, and I. I knew was different. I'm like. It was like, in the beginning, I'm bringing Irv and Jay out, and Ain't no was really the. The time where Jay was like, we going to Miami. And I was like. And it was bigger because it was. No, it Was no record label budget that was appropriated for that. It was like him saying, like, yo, this is what we doing.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's right.

[Jazz-O]

You know what I'm saying? And we out. I was like, oh, this is real.

[Memphis Bleak]

Word up.

[Jazz-O]

So.

[Memphis Bleak]

Yeah, man, when I seen it change jazz like me when it hit, when I knew, oh, it's different. We was in VA at some type of. I think it was an in store or show. And the limo. We was in the limo. We pull up in the limo and everybody just rushed the limo, bro. Like, they rushed the limo, going so crazy. They dented the limo. The side of the limo was dented. That's how many people was trying to bum rush and get to the limo. And we all in the car, J telling. We pull off, pull off. And we looking at each other like, yo, is this real?

[Jazz-O]

Like, right?

[Memphis Bleak]

This is like, is it real? I remember everybody looking at it like, is this really happening?

[Jazz-O]

Like, this is shit. You see. And in the movie. Yeah, Video.

[Memphis Bleak]

Video running behind the car.

[Jazz-O]

Rock stars. Yeah. AC DC or some.

[Memphis Bleak]

Yo, they was pulling the boobies out and everything. Remember, I'm 14 at this time. So, you know, I'm sitting here like, open the door, right? Let's run to the light.

[Jazz-O]

I know you're gonna get half killed.

[Memphis Bleak]

Just like Poltergeist. Come to the light, Clarice, right? Yo, so with all that. That, man, you're a goat man. Seriously, if no one ever told you, bro, I'll be the one to tell you. You a goat man. Definitely one of the goats. And with that being said, how do you feel where Brooklyn's place in hip hop is today? From where we started.

[Jazz-O]

It'S definitely not the same. And runs universally across New York, period, because of the influence of the media is sort of compromised the creativity. And what I mean by that is radio, commercial radio at that time, before, even before digital radio, radio at that time started playing this, the same music nationwide. So if you see the. The program list for New York, you could go to Detroit and it'd be the same program list. And that's, you know, of course they say that's what really monetized. And this, that, and the other with hip hop. But it really added or contributed to the enslavement of the. The people who's actually spending the marketing, spending the money, you know. And so I think that, like, when you hear artists now, it's not new. It's not new. Hip hop is. It's like you from. You from Bed Stuy and you rhyming like you From Louisiana. Now I ain't. I'm not taking a jab at Castle Ramen like Rom. And they sound like they from Louisiana. If they from Louisiana.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's right.

[Jazz-O]

You know, but we lost our identity. You know what I'm saying? And it was a skip. It was. It was actually planned that way. It was actually planned that way. It's like, nah. Because these in the city, meaning New York, they too progressive. And especially around the time where you had. You had groups like Brand Nubian, myself, There are a few. A few other cats. I. I don't come to mind right now, but Lee Casa made peach fuzz.

[Memphis Bleak]

Oh, damn. Peach fuzz. Who's that? I was thinking the rest of development. You had De La Soul.

[Jazz-O]

Yeah, De La Soul. You had. Yeah, it was more. It was more conscious. Even. Even PM dawn back African Bambada.

[Memphis Bleak]

Public enemy.

[Jazz-O]

Definitely public in KRS1 when he heard.

[Memphis Bleak]

But when he turned it to the philosopher. Because at first he was an assassin.

[Jazz-O]

Right, right, Right.

[Memphis Bleak]

The first KRS1 was an assassin.

[Jazz-O]

Right.

[Memphis Bleak]

Then he became the philosopher.

[Jazz-O]

KRS 1.1.

[Shopify Sponsor Voice (Alternate)]

Yes.

[Memphis Bleak]

As a fact.

[Jazz-O]

Yes.

[Memphis Bleak]

1.1. So what advice would you give young artists coming out today? No matter being from wherever they from New York, Louisiana, as you say, like, what advice would you give them or how important ownership and longevity is?

[Jazz-O]

Firstly, to recognize your creativity for what it is is creativity. Second, recognize the business and learn the business for what it is. Because one thing that we did back then, we got. We got them intertwined, so we were being creative. And I still. I still hear people say it today is like, yo, that song right there is crazy. Like, you put this out, it's gonna. It's like it ain't gonna do nothing without marketing dollars, without a strategy. You know what I'm saying? So it's still people to this very day who. Who get it mixed with a song that they personally think is a hot song on a creative level, thinking that it's good, they think that it should be successful. But in order for a song to be successful, it has to be exploited.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's right. And it has to be planned. A real plan.

[Jazz-O]

That's right.

[Memphis Bleak]

Marketing. Everything has to go into it. And there's a lot of moving parts to.

[Jazz-O]

That's right.

[Memphis Bleak]

Moving.

[Jazz-O]

That's. That's right. A lot of trickery. Now you got AI.

[Memphis Bleak]

Whoa.

[Jazz-O]

You know, it's a whole menagerie of things that contribute to the success of a song. Because, I mean, we've all heard songs that when it hit our eardrums, it's like, this is garbage. Y But after about 3,4000 plays, this heavy rotation, this fire, right? Even if. Even if you still don't like it, you find yourself singing it.

[Memphis Bleak]

Y. Yep. N. 100% agree, man. Like, that's what I would say to these kids, man. Definitely. 100%. Be yourself. And originality is. Is something that's lost, man. Like, I feel like we in the.

[Jazz-O]

Copy and paste world, definitely.

[Memphis Bleak]

You know what I mean? We living in a is major, like, so, like, the legacy of Jazzo, man. When people say your name, Jazzo, when they think about jazzo and everything that you contributed, like, what. What's the picture you want them to paint of you beyond the guy who they say, just put Jay Z on because it's more to jazz Odin, just Jay is larger than life. You know, everybody. Even when it got I can't do nothing. Anything I do, he did it, I go on vacation, he paid for it. Yo. So I get it. But that's why I need you to say it yourself so they can get it. Cause I have to say it 4 million times a day, right?

[Jazz-O]

And what's crazy is that I, you know, believe it or not, I fall under that category often as well. So I would want or I would like for people to remember the thought and my sincerity, like, regardless of whatever music I put out, that it was all from the heart.

[Podcast Sponsor Voice]

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[Angela Yee]

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[Jazz-O]

Course, you know, a lot of artists would be like, well, why would you say it? You know, And I, I didn't say things just to impress people. And this may be like a, this may be the worst selling tool that I could use, but I, I. And to this minute, I'm still trying to keep impressing myself.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's right.

[Jazz-O]

Because I, I feel like to me, and it may sound a little narcissistic, but to me, I'm the highest intellect. I'm the best, I'm the best reference to, to. As far as judging what a good song is, what a good rhyme is, you know, what an excellent rhyme is, what the best thing is. Like, I go back and forth like I still dabble on my drum machine and like I still go back and forth in my own head. It's like, that ain't it. You know what I'm saying? So, so that's what. And, and, and I kind of want. I'm, you know, I'm. Right. I'm in the process of writing books. So that's the main thing I want to impress upon people is that this wasn't always how many streams you could get or how many billboards you on. You know, for some of us out here, it was about, this is something we did because we enjoyed it.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's right.

[Jazz-O]

We wasn't getting paid for it at the time. We was just doing it and places we had to go, you know, me and Jay, we traveled. We went to, you know, before the deals and stuff like that, me and Jay used to go up there. We heard about, we heard about Dougie Fresh. Guess what? We was, we was in Harlem.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's right.

[Jazz-O]

You know what I'm saying? We, we went to where the action was, and that's what it was about. And it wasn't about getting paid all like that. And then, you know, my, my first taste of getting Bread was like a MC contest. And I was like, I could just go on the stage and. And do what I do in my sleep, damn near. And you know, somebody. Y' all gonna give me some money.

[Memphis Bleak]

Word up.

[Jazz-O]

But the. You know, and. And the crazy part about it, all right, I'm trying to think which. Which club this was. It was. It was Broadway International and.

[Memphis Bleak]

Too young for that. I don't remember that spot.

[Jazz-O]

Yeah, yeah. So it's cool. It's cool. So Broadway International, we used to go up there and, you know, it was a lot. It was a lot of us. It was. I ain't gonna mention anybody name because y' all know the ones who was there.

[Memphis Bleak]

You know, Salute.

[Jazz-O]

Exactly, exactly, exactly. But I gotta. I gotta shout out. I gotta shout out my man Slide, you know, Skid older I got.

[Austin Hankwitz]

Damn.

[Memphis Bleak]

I ain't hear that name in forever, bro.

[Jazz-O]

Right? I gotta shout out. Kiddo.

[Memphis Bleak]

Kiddo. Yeah.

[Jazz-O]

His brother Paul Pony. Who else is there? Moo used to come out with us sometimes. Shout out to all y'. All. It was other with us, but, you know, and Jay was definitely there. Oh, LD Arrow, KG Cousin. You know, he was with us a lot and. And on that occasion, too, so. It's so much shit, man. Like it. I get like a flood of information.

[Memphis Bleak]

I know one.

[Shopify Sponsor Voice (Alternate)]

Yes.

[Memphis Bleak]

Once you start going, it's like all the memories start coming back.

[Jazz-O]

It's like a tree with branch.

[Memphis Bleak]

Every brain got a brand story.

[Shopify Sponsor Voice (Alternate)]

Yes.

[Memphis Bleak]

I know exactly what you're going through.

[Jazz-O]

Branch got a branch, then the leaves. And then. Yeah, so it's a lot. So back then they had this MC contest. And I'm trying to think, what's this name? Mr. Something. But he was the manager, right? If I don't remember your name, like, hit my social media and remind me of something if you see this. Of course. But yeah, he was like, yeah, we doing a. We doing a rap contest. You know, the winner get a thousand dollars. I was like, word. So I got in it. Let me tell you who was in the con, who the finalists were. Dana Dane.

[Memphis Bleak]

Chill.

[Jazz-O]

And what's. What's My man Justice? Just Ice was. He was rhyming with this other kid, I think his name was. He called himself Triple T or something or Tricky T or something. And Just Ice, you know, Just Ice was a bully from a long time ago. He got mad at the.

[Memphis Bleak]

He had the big change.

[Jazz-O]

Yeah, Just Ice. He. He got mad at the. And he was like, I'm gonna just do this myself. And. And the same thing happened. Like me, Errol And Jason, we were. We. We entered the contest together, but it really just ended up being me, like. And no disrespect to them or nothing, but they. They ran out of rhymes. That happens that. Word up, you know what I'm saying? They ran out of rhymes, and they was like, fuck it, you got it. And so. So we were the finalists. It was me, Just Ice, and Dana Dane. And the prize was a thousand dollars. And, you know, I won Smoke, Dana.

[Memphis Bleak]

Dane, and Just Ice. Legendary. Come on, man. Dana Dane. Put the ballies on.

[Jazz-O]

Right? Right from, you know, they.

[Memphis Bleak]

The Fame, yo.

[Jazz-O]

Crazy. They was the. What's the name? They was. They were the. Him. Him, Slick Rick, and somebody else.

[Memphis Bleak]

Crush, bro.

[Jazz-O]

Now, they were called the Kango Crew.

[Memphis Bleak]

Oh, the Kango Crew. See, I was. I didn't even know about that crew.

[Jazz-O]

Yeah. Funny little tidbit, though. You know, they were taking a. Reese. We were taking a recess, and I was going to use the bathroom. So when I went in the bathroom, Dana. I mean, Rick was. Was coaching Dana on Hot Chill.

[Memphis Bleak]

And he still went out there. Got smoke.

[TurboTax Sponsor Voice]

See?

[Jazz-O]

Yo, let me tell you something now. And I don't know. I don't know why, but it seemed like Rick didn't like me for a long time. Every time I saw him, he had this look. I don't know if it was the respect or he's like, I just don't like this. Nah, it's respect. Yeah. Yeah, but. And I've seen him recently. I mean, we were kids, to be honest. We were kids. And I don't. I don't take offense to it. And I hope if he hears this, that he doesn't take offense to it, because I didn't even back then, I didn't take offense to it. I knew how people responded to me for whatever reason, and it was great, man.

[Memphis Bleak]

You was too nice, man. That's what it was, Jazz. You was. You was ahead of your time. And that's. That's a lot of. I say that about a few people in the game, like you. You. You were one of the ones that was just so nice that people didn't catch on until later to where they like, oh, he. This what he was talking about, right? This the shit he was doing. You know what I mean? Like, think about it, bro. Like I said, you brought Panthers to the projects.

[Jazz-O]

Yeah.

[TurboTax Sponsor Voice]

Make us.

[Memphis Bleak]

Can't even bring black cars to the project. Certain people still haven't even brought a black car. You brought a Black Panther through the projects. So let's clear that up. And another Thing.

[Jazz-O]

The baby lion.

[Memphis Bleak]

Yeah. Like in this industry, you built numerous entities, you taught, you evolve. What's the next chapter of jazzo's life that's being written? No, you said you got a book coming out.

[Jazz-O]

Yeah, I'm. I'm doing. I'm doing several books, and it's really about, you know, it's kind of like the. It's kind of like a pleasurable pressure, like, to always do stuff that's original. So. So for me, it's like I'm doing sort of like a, you know, background. Like it's. It's a. It's a. It's an autobiography, but it's done in pieces. But amidst. Excuse me, amidst the. The pieces of different eras in my life, there is. There was lessons. Like the first. Like the first volume of seven is going to be about, you know, poetic. What they call poetic license was. But the different. What do you call them? Can't come up with the word right now, but they're different. Like, you know, automatopia, simile, prose, the different, you know, double entendres. Yeah. You know, and I list a certain amount and just teaching people what these things are and how I utilize them and basically coming to the point of creative writing and that everything you write, to an extent, is creative writing.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's right.

[Jazz-O]

From a book report to a business plan, you know, there's creativity involved, because if there isn't, guess what? Nobody's going to pay any attention to it.

[Podcast Sponsor Voice]

It's just.

[Jazz-O]

You got to have a flair.

[Memphis Bleak]

It's just words on the paper.

[Jazz-O]

Right. You got to have a flair for something different. Like what's outstanding in this. That's going to make me spend some money on you or whatever the case.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's right.

[Jazz-O]

So my. My legacy is to impart. Impart, not information, but physical, experiential, and spiritual. I guess you could call it anecdotes. You know what I'm saying? Of. Of what. Of what is about, like, from. From my perspective, I don't think. Because I. To be honest with you, I mean, we all have our own perspective and none is exactly alike. But I think that in certain things, mine is more contrasting than a lot of other people. And I. And that's what I. That's what I want to share with the world and make that my legacy.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's what's up, man. I can't wait. I know. I'm tuned in. I'm tuning. I'm buying all seven. You said you got seven different chapters with seven different books. So I'M buying all seven because you. It's my mentor, Jazz. Oh, man. Like, what's. How can I say this? Because it's almost like me asking myself this question. Me asking you this question, Right. What do you feel like you still want to accomplish that will be, like, the full circle closure to everything for you?

[Jazz-O]

I know it sounds general, but to. To balance, like I was talking about earlier, to counterbalance a lot of the things that grieve artists and. And the music audience in. In hip hop in particular. You know what I'm saying? Like, the stuff you have to deal with, like, oh, I can't. I can't do this because this is stopping me. Or they. They make you pay for this. And you. And I mean, it's coming around to that. But at the same time, there's a price to pay because what you were talking about ownership, and I think that is, of course, it's gonna put a big red flag next to my name and, you know, a target on me. But it's like, that's the key to bring back ownership.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's right.

[Jazz-O]

Because if you made it, you created it, you should own it.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's a fact.

[Jazz-O]

And the only. And. And this. And the crazy part about. Is that there's nobody stopping anybody from owning it. It's just that the information is not out there. And then they. And then they. They use this other. The streaming as a distraction. Just like, why own. Why own your. When you could just create it, publish it, and put it on our. On our esp. Yeah.

[Memphis Bleak]

You come to my app and listen to it. You don't have to own it. You don't have to bring this home with you and own it.

[Jazz-O]

Right?

[Memphis Bleak]

You know, it don't have to be like, your couch. You can just. You can. It's like having a virtual couch. Like, yeah, I'm gonna open my app and lay on my couch. Yeah, that's what the. Yo, so I totally agree. Ownership is everything to me, man. Like, I was taught that by y'.

[Shopify Sponsor Voice (Alternate)]

All.

[Jazz-O]

Like, and I. And. And I gotta say this, too. Maybe I'm saying too much, but it. When I say ownership as a. As an individual, you're not supposed to own anything. You're supposed to control it. And then the prop. But the problem is, like. Like, say, for instance, my name is Jonathan Burks, right? But that's. That's what they told me. I'm not Jonathan Burks. My name is Jonathan Burks. And that's what they use when they send you to court. That's what they Use when they put in all caps and they send you bills. That's not me. Jonathan Burks is the hoodie that I put on, you know what I'm saying? And go out into the world and conduct business in commerce. It's not you. Like, your name is not right. It's not you. And in all actuality, a living, breathing soul cannot do business with a corporation or corporate entity, period. So when I say ownership, like, I'm not going to go into the whole spiel, but you put it in a place where a document owns all your stuff, but you are the controller. The controller and the grant and the soul controller. That's the key.

[Memphis Bleak]

Right.

[Jazz-O]

Because owning, owning it doesn't mean anything. And. But, but we use owning.

[Memphis Bleak]

Yeah, I mean, you can lose it and somebody comes to you, they can take it from you. It's all, you know, is opening up companies and putting intellectual property under this, you know, corporation, this asset. Yeah, but a lot of these guys gotta, like you said, you have to have. It's almost like in the publishing game, you have to have enough music out to generate publishing. You can make an ass cap or BMI account today, but if your records, you don't have enough music out, generating a certain amount of dollars, you're just gonna have an empty ASCAP account.

[Jazz-O]

You spend it right? You spending more money.

[Memphis Bleak]

So with the intellectual property ownership, what you told me, it has to be enough for you to, you know, control it like that, like. But that's definitely a major gym drop. And I just want to say thank you, Jazzo, for pulling up. I. I want to tell you that as a brother, as a little homie of yours, I love you. As a big homie, everything you love.

[Jazz-O]

You too.

[Memphis Bleak]

Contributed to my life. Every good and bad day we ever have all led up to this. Yes, man. And, And I appreciate you and I thank you for coming through, man. And trust me, loves Jazzo. And the world needs more Jazz O's. Because if it wasn't for you looking inside and knowing. Because you could have been selfish, bro. And a person that's being selfish can stop so many other dreams by using. By you helping Jay helped me and I'm helping so many other people. That's all from your branch. Like you said, every branch has a different branch and we still growing leaves on ours.

[Jazz-O]

Yes.

[Memphis Bleak]

I just want to say thank you, my brother, and stay blessed and keep doing your thing. Jazz Oda Legend. Rock solid, baby. Yeah. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows at. And you can follow me on any social media platform under the name Memphis Bleak. You see? See anybody frauding? Flag them.

[Angela Yee]

This is Angela Yee from Angela Yee's Lip Service. One in four people in the US has been to a Planned Parenthood health center for life saving, life changing care. We're talking about birth control, annual exams, cancer screenings, STI testing and treatment, and more high quality expert judgment free care. And despite lawmakers efforts to shut them down, they're not going anywhere. Care continues at Planned Parenthood so that you can get the unbiased, high quality health care that you need. To learn more, visit on4pp.org Janice Torres.

[Austin Hankwitz]

Here and I'm Austin Hankwitz. We host the podcast Mind the Small Business Success Stories produced by Ruby Studio in partnership with Intuit QuickBooks.

[Angela Yee]

We're back for season four to talk to some incredible small business owners.

[Austin Hankwitz]

The big thing about working at tech is that it's ever evolving, ever changing everyone's rookie.

[Jazz-O]

That's how fast the industry is changing. So what I'm really excited about is.

[Austin Hankwitz]

To be part of that change. So listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you're a maintenance supervisor for a commercial property, you've had to deal with everything from leaky faucets to flickering light bulbs. But nothing's worse than that ancient boiler that's lived in the building since the day it was built 50 years ago. It's enough to make anyone lose their cool. That's where Grainger comes in. With industrial grade products and dependable, fast delivery, Grainger can help with any challenge, from worn out components to everyday necessities. Call clickranger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done. With volley from iShares, you get access to both monthly income and growth potential in one simple ET ETF.

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