Shyheim | ROC Solid w/ Memphis Bleek

Summary

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ROC Solid w/ Memphis Bleek – Shaheem the Rugged Child (March 17, 2026)

Episode Overview

In this engaging and deeply reflective episode of ROC Solid, Memphis Bleek sits down with Shaheem the Rugged Child (aka Man Child), a prodigy from New York's golden era of hip-hop and a key figure in Wu-Tang's orbit. Together, they retrace Shaheem's meteoric rise as a young rapper, his pioneering role as a streetwise youth in hip-hop, his foray into acting, battles with the industry and personal demons, and his rediscovery of purpose through uplifting his community.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Shaheem’s Entry and Influence in Hip-Hop

• Early Beginnings:

  • Shaheem signed his first deal at 13 with Virgin Records for $350K (09:38), which Bleek and Shaheem note was a record-breaking amount for the era.
  • “I was the first one with an explicit lyric sticker on the album.” (08:50, Shaheem)
  • The industry wanted "bubble gum" but Shaheem fought to keep his street authenticity.
  • Shaheem was among the first to straddle both rapping and acting before it was respected in the culture.

• Inspiration for Jay-Z:

  • Shaheem reveals he inspired Jay-Z’s classic Show and Prove after running with Big Daddy Kane, but missed the opportunity to directly collaborate due to communication gaps.
    • "I was up north when I read [Jay-Z's book]...I never knew of this, right?...I was the one that inspired him to write it, but it was your blessing." (04:56–05:41, Shaheem)
  • Bleek wonders who in Shaheem's circle might have mishandled Jay's early outreach.

• Street Representation:

  • Distinguished himself from other young acts like Kris Kross by bringing authentic "project" energy to his music and visuals.
  • Both discuss being young, coming from tough backgrounds, and concrete struggles in Brooklyn and Staten Island.

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2. The Era of Young Rappers and Industry Tension

• Navigating Sudden Fame:

  • Shaheem's rise was quick, with stories of buying his first car in ninth grade, putting food in the fridge for the first time, and managing adult responsibilities as a child (14:13; 11:26).
  • “My refrigerator used to look like water and baking soda, my nigga... Syrup sandwiches and syrup bread.” (12:04, Shaheem)
  • Lack of guidance from OGs on managing money and navigating fame.
  • Parallel paths of Bleek and Shaheem: Bleek credits Jay-Z and the Roc-A-Fella family for intervening and keeping him out of trouble (12:53).

• Impact of Environment:

  • Both recall survivor's guilt, temptations, and lack of industry support or protection for child stars.
  • Shaheem: “The distraction was staying local, man. Staying local. And survivor's guilt, right? Thinking I gotta take everybody.” (26:24)

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3. Battles, Cyphers, and Community Ties

• East Coast Hip-Hop Camaraderie:

  • Early days were marked by ciphers and friendly battles, not animosity; mutual respect among young spitters from different boroughs (06:36).
  • "Ns would be like, yo, it was a cipher. N**s was battling. It was nothing like yo, I burn or nothing like that. It was like you was on." (06:46, Bleek)

• Wu-Tang Family Insights:

  • Shaheem breaks down Wu-Tang's composition: mostly Staten Island and Brooklyn roots; notable members like Raekwon originated from Brooklyn (28:29).
  • Discusses being the young one among legends, the influence and visibility Wu-Tang provided, and the unique Staten Island flavor they brought.

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4. Transition to Acting and Career Expansion

• First Acting Breaks:
  • Shaheem’s first acting gig was in TLC’s “Waterfalls” video (18:27).
  • Acting took his image beyond just hip-hop, opening two separate audiences: music and Hollywood.
    • "After the TLC video, it kind of took me from being just a rapper into like pop world…my career took two separate careers." (25:40, Shaheem)
  • Later roles in movies and TV (Original Gangsters, Parenthood), and financial realities of acting vs. music.

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5. Life Lessons, Regret, and Redemption

• Missed Opportunities and Reflections:

  • Shaheem opens up about regrets—not moving his family away from negative environments, coping with loss, and learning from his mistakes (26:24, 29:19).
  • “If I could go back, I would have gone to college. That would have given me structure... but I don’t regret anything, because now I can go into these prisons and talk to these youth from experience.” (29:19, Shaheem)
  • Importance of education, business knowledge, and mentorship.

• Incarceration and Growth:

  • Prison was a period of self-examination: “Being in them cells was like watching a videotape playback… all I can do is correct [my errors] and do better next time.” (32:18, Shaheem)
  • Turning personal pain into a cautionary tale—a source of motivation for youth outreach.

• Founding Rugged Road to Recovery:

  • Shaheem created his nonprofit to support youth and families “because I want to be what I needed.” (33:38)

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6. Hip-Hop Legacy and Staten Island's Place

• Staten Island Recognition:

  • Discusses how Staten Island’s contributions are often overlooked despite Wu-Tang and other acts.
  • “Straight up, I think there’s a lot of greats that come from Staten Island that get left out… Foresome Ds, UMCs, King Just…” (35:31, Shaheem)

• Generational Credit:

  • Despite precedents set by later stars like Bow Wow or Lil Romeo, Shaheem doesn’t mind the lack of mainstream recognition: “You don’t have to tell your story. People will tell it for you when it’s real. So, one day they will know.” (31:37)

• Wu-Tang Hall of Fame:

  • On Wu-Tang's nomination to the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame: “When they make it, I make it…am I going to be on stage? Probably not...But I’m Wu family for life.” (38:16, Shaheem)

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7. Resolving Industry Drama: The Cassidy Story

• Setting the Record Straight:

  • Responds in detail to Cassidy’s story about being “stranded” in NYC: clarifies it was a miscommunication—no cell phones, missed connections—not malice or ego (41:00–48:24).
  • “We did make plans for him to come to Staten Island...I made the attempt to go…we don’t link up…It was just a thing of leave you nowhere. I had great intentions for you.” (41:00–45:50, Shaheem)
  • Bleek praises Shaheem and Cassidy for resolving things, even collaborating on new music.

• Old School Etiquette:

  • Reflect on the days of pay phones, missed calls, and how those minor slip-ups changed streams of hip-hop history.

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8. Redemption, Purpose, and Giving Back

• Current Mission & Family:

  • Married, with children who are social influencers; wife runs a jewelry business.
  • Foundation—Rugged Road to Recovery—expanding into grants: helping mothers with childcare, providing direct grassroots aid (59:52).
  • “I want to be what I really needed…At 16, I was taking care of a whole house…That was my reality, you know?” (33:38, Shaheem)

• Advice and Perspective:

  • Emphasizes paying it forward—sharing story and resources generously (57:32).
  • On redemption: “It’s a reminder, right? That if you don't stay on the course, you'll be telling the same story again...But I live my life purposeful now.” (55:27, Shaheem)

• New Projects:

  • Plans for The Rugged Child story stage play, memoir, and matching album—sold as a package like “old school library card” style, connecting direct with fans (58:29).
  • Diversifying through merchandise, retail, and unique music sales strategies.

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Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• On Industry Opportunities:
  • “If Hov, if you watch this, man, who you reached out to, man? Who turned that down?” — Memphis Bleek (05:47)
• Life Changing Money:
  • “You got to think at that time, 350 ... in 1993. 94. No, that’s like 2 million, my dude.” — Memphis Bleek (13:54)
• On Survivor’s Guilt:
  • “Survivor’s guilt, right? Thinking I gotta take everybody...If I was grown enough in my mind, right? Because that’s like taking a young kid now and giving him life in prison for something he did at 14. His brain ain’t fully developed.” — Shaheem (26:24)
• Mentorship:
  • “I was just trying to navigate through life...All I strive to do is correct my errors and be better than I was yesterday today.” — Shaheem (53:25)
• Legacy:
  • “You don’t have to tell your story. People will tell it for you when it’s real…So one day they will know. And when they do know, then they could do better.” — Shaheem (31:37)

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Important Timestamps

• [03:46] – Intro to Shaheem, young emcees in the 90s
• [05:41] – Jay-Z inspiration story, missed connection
• [08:50] – Project authenticity: explicit lyric sticker and industry pushback
• [09:38] – $350k record deal at 13
• [11:26] – Family struggles, hood upbringing, first chain, first car
• [18:27] – Acting debut in TLC’s “Waterfalls”
• [26:24] – Reflections on “survivor’s guilt,” missed opportunities to save his family
• [31:37] – Does Shaheem get credit for being a hip-hop trailblazer?
• [35:31] – Staten Island hip-hop legacy conversation
• [38:16] – Wu-Tang Hall of Fame and Shaheem’s place
• [41:00–48:24] – Shaheem clarifies the Cassidy "stranded in NYC" story
• [53:25] – What Shaheem wants his legacy to be
• [55:27] – Redemption and the meaning of paying it forward
• [58:29] – Upcoming projects: stage play, memoir, new music distribution
• [59:52] – Current focus on the Rugged Road to Recovery foundation and grants

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Conclusion

This episode brims with hip-hop history, honesty, and hard-won insight. Whether discussing forgotten boroughs, the importance of mentorship, or the struggle to survive and evolve despite fame, Shaheem speaks transparently about where he’s been and where he’s going. Bleek’s respect and camaraderie ensure every story resonates, making this required listening for anyone invested in hip-hop’s past, present, and future.

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"Pay it forward. You never know what somebody’s going through that day."
— Shaheem, 57:32

"You can move mountains. All you need is a small circle, long as y’all moving on one accord."
— Memphis Bleek, 55:13

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Stay ROC Solid.

Transcript

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[Memphis Bleak]

What up, y'?

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

All?

[Memphis Bleak]

This your main man, Memphis Bleak, right here. Welcome to Rock Solid, a production of iHeartRadio and the Black Effect Network, in partnership with my guys over at Drink Champs.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

You should know by now. You should know by now.

[Memphis Bleak]

Yeah, yeah, y'. All, you already know what it is. Back with another exclusive Rock Solid podcast. Yours truly, M. Greasy. And I got one of my good, good friends. I mean, when I first got in this game, you know, it's not a lot of guys that was young and spitting like us. It was Cs, it was Jai, it was the locks, you know what I mean? You had illegal. But the first one, really from the projects, putting in that work before all of us was my man right here, Shaheem the Rugged Child, AKA the Man Child. Let's welcome my guy building, my brother. What's up, my guy?

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

Make it easy money. Dripping holes in style.

[Memphis Bleak]

What's happening, yo, you know what's so ill, man? Like, before we even start the interview, like, my G, I gotta thank you in some way for being too hot back in the day. Like, because if you think about it, you was on so much fire that when HOV reached out to you, HOV

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

never reached out to me.

[Memphis Bleak]

Your camp, your peoples, you know, niggas have representatives. You know how that was back in the day, Everybody speak to everybody.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

And I always say this, right? Cause when I read it in the book, right? I was. I was. I was up. I was up north when I read it. And I'm like, wow, I never knew of this, right? That, yo, that when, you know, he seen me running with Kane and we did the show. Improve record. Yeah, he Was inspired by a young dude in the game making moves that he wanted to create this record. And he said he reached out to my peoples, but he never said who. And nobody ever stepped up. Nobody ever stepped up. Stepped up. Like, yo, he called me. Nobody did that. So I felt like. Like, I felt like, damn, you know what? That. That was a missed opportunity. But at the same time, it was a blessing, right? It was a blessing because yet and still I was the one that inspired him to write it. But it was your blessing?

[Memphis Bleak]

Yes, because that's what was supposed to

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

happen for me would have happened. But I always still be wondering if hov if you watch this, man, who, Who.

[Memphis Bleak]

Who you reached out to, man, who turned that down? Because I always thought, you know, you was on tour. You had ma

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

always was. You know me, man, we grew up in the lyrical days, right? And when I first heard hov, when he said, I'm like Prince Jeans, I bring the ass out of. I thought he was the illest ever as well. So for me, I'm like, yo, I got records with smoother hustler Sugar the gambler, right? Why would I deny HOV a record? That. That. That didn't make no sense. But again, it. That happened in the business. And then I thought, I said, yo, you know what? He probably was just trying to go to handle business the right way. And I just be like, yo. Cause I used to see him, you know, I come to Marcy and he pull up. I was like, yo. He could have just said, yo, Sha, I want you on the record. And it would have been done. You know what I'm saying? But, you know, it is.

[Memphis Bleak]

And that's the thing a lot of people don't know. Sha used to definitely pull up in Marcy. We had mutual peoples. I used to go to Stapleton. That's when I first met you.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

That's when you start your battle.

[Memphis Bleak]

Yeah, we was just rhyming. But you know how it was back in the day. N would be like, yo, it was a cipher. N was battling. It was nothing like. Like, yo, I burn or nothing like that. It was like you was on. So to even rhyme against a nigga who had a deal that I could watch your video music box, you got to remember back then to a. Remember, this is 94 my. Yeah, we talking about before it was even a thought you could be on the one.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

I remember it was. I don't know if it was the Hard Knock Life, but it was me, you, Eve. And we was. And Quain. And we had a lobby and the dude was trying to style on Kwame. And then we all went in on it.

[Memphis Bleak]

So you know what it was?

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

Rest in Peace, Salad, Stapleton, Kate Fly and all them. They used to always try to pin us against each other. Some Marcy and Stapleton.

[Memphis Bleak]

How I met you, like, was through him. You know, we had mutual friends. My man K Li, that was his brother. So when I came to Staten island and K Li, yo, this my dude, Bleak. Nobody fucking with him. Style is like, man. Nobody fucking with my little man. He went, got you. You came out with a hundred from the hood. I'm like, oh, man, I don't remember that.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

Right? No smiles. And I'm saying it was them, right? But list, honestly, I don't remember what movie was going at. I was like, yo, I don't.

[Memphis Bleak]

No, no, no, we didn't. Yo, bro, we just probably. You probably spit one verse. I spit one verse. It wasn't like a major cipher. And then after that, bro, we went to the crib. You brought me to your crib. Wherever you was living, whatever building you had a crib in at that time. We was smoking. We blew it down. Now I ain't going front, man. I always say, I met you. Ghost, rza, all y' all in the same day. Fucking with Silas, bro.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

Yeah, no Silas. Definitely starting out with Legend. Word up on my neck right here. Sacks rest in peace.

[Memphis Bleak]

Yeah, man. That's the big bro Legend. Nah, but, like, take us back. Cause you was the first nigga from the projects, Lil nigga who really looked like us. Like, you had your Kris Kross, you had your abc. They was dope, but they wasn't project hustler. Niggas holding a gun on they hip and then going to the studio, getting busy and getting on tv. That was you the first?

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

Yeah, yeah. I think I was the first one with an explicit lyric stick on the album.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's a fact.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

And I actually had to fight through a lot of things, like the fcc, you know what I'm saying? And fight with the labels to be able to have the content that I was talking about. Because they wanted manufactured, they wanted bubble gum. They wanted you to be able to come with a sticker. I mean, a piece of gum in your album type shit, you know what I'm saying?

[Memphis Bleak]

Especially being young.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

Yeah. So I had to fight through a lot of that, you know what I'm saying? And even with the films, I was one of the first rappers to get into films and everything. So I took a lot of hits for the game and sometimes it sucks when you take the hit because once everybody, anybody gets past that and it becomes a norm, you honestly sometimes get forgotten in the process.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's a fact. So. But how old were you when you got your first deal?

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

I signed to virgin. I was 13. I was 13 when I got my first deal. I signed for 350. My first deal was one of the biggest deals in history.

[Memphis Bleak]

Hell, yeah.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

And that was because Virgin and Warner Brothers had a bidding war, and Virgin had lost to Warner Brothers for Tevin Campbell, and Virgin wasn't trying to lose this one. But in hindsight, I should have the deal with Warner Brothers if I knew I was going to get into acting. So Warner Brothers was offering a album deal and a spot on the Fresh Prince of Bel Air because Benny Medina was the creator of the Fresh Prince of Bel Air, and Virgin was offering a production deal with R S. So, you know, they took the production deal to be able to put GP Wu Tang on for an album deal. And, you know, that's what happened. You know what I'm saying?

[Memphis Bleak]

As far as that.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

And I signed. I was like, yo, what's up? But I wasn't even trying to be an actor then, because in that days, it was like acting was being a sellout. If you was in movies or anything,

[Memphis Bleak]

if it wasn't the right role.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

Yeah, no, it was no role. You couldn't do no role at that time. It was like you had gangster roles

[Memphis Bleak]

by G. No, after.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

I'm Talking about in 1993 and 94, there wasn't many rappers that was trying to be actors. Actually, Big Daddy Kane took a lot of hits for doing that, being an actor and posse and all that. They was, you know.

[Memphis Bleak]

Yeah, they was on his neck for that.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

And, you know, working with Barry White and doing big rap records like that in the hip hop area underground, it was considered like, yo, you selling out for popular. Whose pop is the Hip Hop Pop pop. You was considered. You know that.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's okay.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

So Kane took a lot of hit

[Memphis Bleak]

for us, but before all of that, man, your debut album, the Rugged Child, Margie, take me through that process. What was that like? This is before the acting. This fresh off the project bench. But you was 13.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

Yeah, when I got the deal, it was incredible, right? It was incredible because I was able to look out for the family. That was the biggest thing. I remember when I first got my first check, man, we went downtown, Albury Square Mall, and I bought my first chain. And I was. And I used to wear my cousin's hand me down so people used to think the rugged child just wore big clothes. Cause I wanted to. Those was hand me downs. So when I was able to actually buy my own self something, you know what I'm saying? And even put food in the refrigerator, like my fridge used to look like water and baking soda, my nigga. You know what I'm saying? Syrup sandwiches and syrup bread. Like, that was my crib, you know,

[Memphis Bleak]

that was the dessert, you know, don't front on the serve sandwich. My G. That was hitting.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

Yeah. And, you know, then my mom's. You know, my pops was in prison. My moms were struggling with substance abuse and things like that. So the. The block was really what raised me. And it's like I took a lot of that. That. That shit on face value. I thought people really loved me. But it was. It was the rugged child. It was the deal. It was the music. And then when real life happens, you know, it happens. You know what I'm saying? So that's why I big up your crew. Cause I was like your cre or your parents or whoever grabbed you at that young age, too. And made. I don't want to say made you, but just removes you from that, you know what I'm saying? Or you would have been. You would have went through the same shit that I went through in the project. Because Marcy is just like staples.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's a fact, bro. Like, that credit I got to give all due to Jay and his cousin Bihar Jazzo. You know, the source. Monies, like, I tried, bro. I was that little nigga wilding. And them niggas used to come through, shake it up, be like, you got what you got this. Throwing my pack, pack away. Take the biscuit, tell yo, how you letting this out here, do this and all that. So they was the. That I used to have to hide from, like, trying to be outside, you know what I mean? And. And then growing up, in hindsight, I used to be like, yo, them is on some. But looking back, it's like, yo, them really saved my life.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

Yeah, that's. That's. That's a blessing. Shout out to them for that. You know what I'm saying? Me, I on. On the end, too. It's like my older brothers gave me the freedom that I had, right? I always had the freedom. So it's hard, I guess, telling kid with the money what to do. And I'm sure I was ignorant and arrogant in a lot of ways, you know what I'm saying as well. So maybe it was a situation where it's like, yo, you can't tell this little nothing. He gonna have to find out on his own what it's really like.

[Memphis Bleak]

And you got to think at that time, 350 my. In 1993. 94. No, that's like 2 million my 350 back then. Because think my first album deal was a buck 50. I got 45 grand as a signing advance and thought I was the richest nigga from Nebraska.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

Yeah, I used to, I bought my first car in ninth grade. I used to, I used to literally put telephone books to sit on with a pillow and come through like this. Come through in the pillow. Like, you know, I mean, dudes had bus passes. I was, I was come pulling up to school, right? But it was like the, the responsibility and, and the freedom I had even, even to not graduating from high school. I got my GED up north, you know what I'm saying? But because once I figured out I'm paying for it, it was like, yo, you fired. I ain't paying for it. It's my money. You know what I'm saying? So a lot of it, I, I, I tribute, I, I contribute to some of my, like, not knowing really what it was really hitting for.

[Memphis Bleak]

And, and I, I'm gonna say back then, a lot of our OGs, they showed us how to get money. They never showed us what to do with the money once you got it.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

Yeah, and a lot of them was learning themselves. And then when I look at it, I was like, yo, Yeah, I was 13, 14, but Brothers was only 26. So it's like now that I'm grown, I'm like, yo, I ain't even get it right until my 30s.

[Memphis Bleak]

And after the 30s, 20s, you ain't no shit. You still a kid too, but 13, bro, you was a baby. My outside moving in clubs.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

In clubs. Yo, listen, if there was a me too movement, then all these older chicks would be, they'd be under the jail right now. Cause I definitely was slaying all the

[Memphis Bleak]

older chicks in the game. But nah, wait, yo, how these kids be telling now on. Think about our teachers back in the day with major librarians looking like.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

But they had flat. You wouldn't even.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's what I'm saying.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

You wouldn't even look at that.

[Memphis Bleak]

Now they got the lit teachers and

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

they're twerking the class.

[Memphis Bleak]

And these kids be telling. Yeah, they bugging, they bugging. But yo, yo, did you at that age? I got. This is a question I can answer for myself, but I want to hear from you. Did you Even fully grasp, like, the magnitude how big Wu Tang and yourself was at that time.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

Oh, it's hard, like I always tell people, right? Cause when they ask me, yo, how was it going? I'm like, I don't know. They was just regular brothers like us. We always just trying to get out of Staten island, right? And for me, the world was the world. But as long as I was, like, known in Staten island, that was my world. So it really didn't matter anywhere else. I was like, yo, they know me in Staten Island. I can go to the wave and rock. I can get in. People know me. You know what I'm saying? Like that. So that was the whole thing. But to actually be on the radio, I'll never forget it, because I was on. I was on a promotional tour. Virgin Records put me on a promotional tour. And that's when I actually went out with Big Daddy Kane as well. And that's how I did the joint with me, Pac Big, and all of us stage.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's legendary.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

I'm coming off the air. First of all, we didn't have, like, cell phones or none of that.

[Memphis Bleak]

No.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

So I would call home, and my boy was like, yo, they playing your video on bet. And, yo, you on the radio. I'm like, get out of here. Right? But this is before somebody recognized me. So when I got back to new and I got off the airplane, and people was like, oh, yo, Rugged Shad, let me get an autograph. I remember that was the funniest thing in the world to me. I was like, yo, why you want me to sign a piece of paper? I just couldn't get it. And some people might have took that as being funny, but I really thought it was like, I didn't get it. I was like, why I gotta sign this paper, yo? Let's just dab it up. Cause that's what I was used to. I'll see you when I see you. But that was really, like, a big shock, yo.

[Memphis Bleak]

So being young like you from the projects, rapping, this is before coming to age. Cause like I said, you was the first my gc. And you in the Rugged Child videos, the Wu Tang videos, the Big Daddy King video with you, Sauce Money and Jay. Yeah, I ain't gonna cap you sitting here. You my nigga. I knew you for years. I was hating who this nigga think he is. He think he the thuggest little nigga. It's little niggas out here thugging, too.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

And from Staten island, too, right? Cause Brooklyn at Staten island, this had

[Memphis Bleak]

the hoodies on the big clothes. Yo my I used to be looking at the videos like, oh, this is winning. And then the Preacher's Wife. Yeah, the acting hit was like my G. How did that work? How did that happen?

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

Well, well, the first thing with acting came from Don't Go Chasing Waterfalls TLC video. That was my first acting job.

[Memphis Bleak]

I forgot you was in that video.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

My first acting job.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

Picture this. Me, Reese Witherspoon in London ordering fish and chips so often they might start wrapping me in paper. I'm traveling with my Wells Fargo Autograph Journey card so I earn rewards wherever I book travel five times points with hotels, four times with airlines, three times on restaurants and other travel and one point on other purchases. Imagine getting rewarded for eating a toad in the hole. Wait, what is a totem hole?

[Commercial Voice/Advertiser]

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[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

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[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

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[Memphis Bleak]

I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same Premium

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

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[Commercial Voice/Advertiser]

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[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

So do like I did and have one of your assistant's assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today.

[Commercial Voice/Advertiser]

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[Podcast Host/Announcer]

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[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

pretty much after that, people was just calling. That's why I always tell people, man, listen, what's for you is for you. If they want to find you, you could be the Unabomber living in the stick, somebody going up knocking on your door because that's what they want. And you know, and it was the blessing. It was them blessings like that. You know what I'm saying? And I always tell people, man, coming of age, you did a phenomenal job. Because I remember when I heard it, I was like, who this?

[Memphis Bleak]

Yeah, who this?

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

This is before I even know that Jay wrote it with me and all that. And I'm like, who's this dude from? And then they start telling yo that son from Marcy that's such and such. I was like, oh, you know what I'm saying? And then, you know, Pop G, the K and also the Embassy, Canaving, Connab and Inf Blue and Telly and all of that.

[Memphis Bleak]

Yeah, man, this was all our same people.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

So they like, yo, that's Malik. And it was just, it was just a full circle. It Was just, you know, you was moving. And then it was like, you know, life. Life takes you separate different ways. But I definitely always remember that time. So even, you know, when we go through our. On the Internet and. And we be texting.

[Memphis Bleak]

Behind the scenes don't know.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

They don't know. We sitting there joking and laughing.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's a fact.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

Behind the scenes on it.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's a fact. They don't know that part.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

Everything you said on that, you said to me and everything that I said on that, I said to you before we went to the Internet with anything,

[Memphis Bleak]

before it was any Internet. My. We was out here talking. You was always on that. I'm the nicest with me. And we would that. That's the competitive New York just putting you as a shorty. Coming up, watching the OGs. And then. Let's go back though, man. That night, Tupac, doc, Biggie, you Kang my. Come on, my G. You held it down. My.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

It was such a great feeling because, like, at this time, rappers wasn't being at the Garden. No, at all. So Big Daddy Kane was really that dude. And it was the Budweiser Superfest. So I was a minor and it. Kane had to fight for me because they didn't want no minor because they were selling beer and stuff. And then Kane was like, yo, he has hostel. You know what I mean? But the greatest feeling was coming out there and was just like, yo, Staten island, right? Just to be able to save my burrow and be like, yo, Wu Tang. People didn't even know Wu Tang really like that at this point, you know? And it was like, I didn't know who was in the crowd until the next day. Coming outside. He was like, yo, we seen you on the stage. Because it wasn't like now you had to hear it or be there in order to get the information. So that made it even better. Once I came home and I knew people from my neighborhood seen me me on that stage.

[Memphis Bleak]

But that was on every mixtape. Flex used to play that every night. My G, like. And all y' all in y' all own right respect, it held it down. But you was what, 14 on stage with these OGs and put that like that night, my G let me know on some G. You held it down. For every little that dreamed of making it out the hood and showing these old niggas, I could hold it down too, my nigga.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

And then what I was wearing, we, you know, we was shaping the culture being young dudes, you know what I'm saying? I never forget I had On a blue Colombian rain suit, you know what I'm saying? With the Tims. Columbia. Come on, the rain suits. Yeah, well, come on, those in the dita cliques.

[Memphis Bleak]

You was that nigger back then and there, my G. So then fucking. Did acting open up different doors for you than rap at that time that you felt?

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

Oh, definitely, definitely. Because after, after, after the TLC video, it kind of took me from being just a rapper into like pop world because they was huge, right? So people would see me then and be like, oh, that's the kid from the video and didn't even know I rapped. So then my career took two separate careers because there's people that didn't know me from rapping, but knew me for acting. It was just like, yo, that's the kid from Original Gangsters with Pam Grier, Fred Williamson. Yo, that's the kid from the Robin Townsend show, Parenthood, right? But it was also a different bag than rap.

[Memphis Bleak]

Hell yeah.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

You know what I'm saying? It was totally different.

[Memphis Bleak]

But what was the distraction for you? Cause you caught your first beard around him that time too.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

The distraction was staying local, man. Staying local. And survivor's guilt, right? Thinking I gotta take everybody. And in hindsight, what I should have did was pack my mother up, move somewhere where she couldn't be on them drugs and put her in a rehab, then my moms would probably still be here today. If I was, if. Thank you. If I was, if I was grown enough in my mind, right? Because that's like taking a young kid now and giving him life in prison for something he did at 14. His brain ain't fully developed. Your brain don't fully develop until a certain age, right? So my brain wasn't developed like that, but I was making grown man decisions. That's like giving a four year old a machine gun. He got 30 bodies. And then you throw in jail and say, yo, you made mistakes. It's like, yo, I. I didn't know what I said. I was doing what I knew how to do, you know what I'm saying?

[Memphis Bleak]

And at that time, we had nothing, bro. It was no outlets. It was not like I tell my son all the time, man, you. It's a lot of job opportunities for you. Yeah, as a kid then it was a summer youth job or that's it.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

Or, or. Well, what I used to do, I used to pack bags in front of super excited. Excuse me, miss, can I help you

[Memphis Bleak]

to your car with your bags?

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

Or I would collect bottles and things like that or ask everybody in the hood. Yo, yo, yo. I'll go to the store and get my little ones and twos from going to the store. That's how I was able to buy my Max Maxwell 90 minute tapes. To be able to go to RNS and get beats and go. I used to have to. I used to have to give RZA Game Boy games for beats.

[Memphis Bleak]

Yo, chill, yo, let me give you

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

this Game Boy game.

[Memphis Bleak]

To get a beat.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

They be like, all right, I give you this beat for this Game Boy.

[Memphis Bleak]

Yo, Game Boy was legendary. But rza, you foul for Trey. Beats for Game Boy games, man, listen,

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

this is what I had to do, you know what I'm saying? Because listen, everybody else that was in the crew crib, you had math and all these getting beats and, you know, so I had to, you know, come with something.

[Memphis Bleak]

And that's dope, man. Like to be the youngest from Stapleton, all of y'. All. Cause think all Wu Tang is from one project. Everybody was from different projects. You had Stapleton, Park Hill, Castle Hill. Right? What is.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

Well, nobody was really from that. It was really just Stapleton and Park Hill and Brooklyn. Because you keep in mind, Majority of the clown. Rest in peace, Master Killer. Raekwon's really originally from. From Brooklyn.

[Memphis Bleak]

Nah, Ray, don't tell me that.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

Ray originally from Brooklyn.

[Memphis Bleak]

Don't tell me that.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

Ray originally from Long Island. Yeah, so it's really. I think it's just ghost inspected that. And even you guys originally from Brooklyn, but RZA and the move to Staten island, like, I mean, I guess they was teenagers still, but still at teenagers or whatever, you know.

[Memphis Bleak]

But think about it, bro. To be that young in the crib with all of that at that time, you know, in the middle. I've been through it. So I know asking you this question is like asking myself, like, like, we, of course, we didn't recognize the greatness we were creating. We just was creating. But looking back, what advice would you give your younger self? Man?

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

Oh, man, I would definitely say. I would definitely say education is key, you know what I mean? If I could go back, I would have definitely went to college. I would have definitely had those experiences as a kid. Right? Because that would have gave me the structure, you know what I'm saying? To be able to maneuver in this business, you know what I'm saying? And then by doing right business, then I think my life would have turned out a little different as far as what I went through. I don't regret anything because the tools that it gave me, that now that I'm Able to go into these prisons and talk to these youth from experiences and really give it to them real and be like, yo. And I'm not one that you just talk about it. I'm like, yo, listen, this is what I walked. This is what I had, and this is what I left. And now I'm still alive. Like, and this is why. This is what I get my get back up. This what feels good to me when I save 10 kids from not going to prison. And once I give them the game and teach them, you know what I'm saying? But it's all about the seeds that's planted. You know what I mean? And I would just tell my younger self, you know what I'm saying, it'll be all right no matter what things happen. Things to. For you, not to you. And that's really it. And you know I'm saying. And you know, always, always stay focused.

[Memphis Bleak]

Always stay fact, man, being the youngest, like I said, man, you. You inspired a lot of us, man. I'm not gonna sit here and act like I wasn't inspired. You, you. You show me that I can do it. You know what I mean?

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

You.

[Memphis Bleak]

Like I said, the crisscrosses, the ABCs, the illegals, the youngsters, all of y' all definitely caught that.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

But the music was pg.

[Memphis Bleak]

Yeah, it was music, but you came out the first with the hood, the gritty, the hoodies on that Woo vibe. Like, I feel like you don't get enough credit for being the spark of this generation, of the young guys that came up. Cause remember, you had the Bow Wows. After that you had Lil Romeo, you know what I mean? Then you got all the young niggas. Now the game is ran by young N. And like I said, you know, was the first. So do you feel you get credit for being like, you know what I mean, a generational, generational gem?

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

I was always told this, right? You don't have to tell your story. People will tell it for you when it's real. You know what I'm saying? I think it's not just me, our history in general. People don't know. So who am I to say, yo, they don't know me. They don't know Malcolm X. They don't know Martin Luther King. They don't know the grace that really made it possible for us to have freedom. So. So listen, it's all good. One day they will know. And when they do know, then they could do better.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's a fact, man. Your time away, you know what I mean? I don't like talking about being like, yo, you was incarcerated. All this, like, your time away from music, you know what I'm saying? What did that teach you about yourself?

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

It made me. It was like being in themselves was like watching a videotape playback. And when I watched that tape, hate, I seen the errors that I made, and I said, all I can do is correct them and do better next time. Like, you know what I'm saying? Nobody is exempt from making mistakes. We all make them. It's what you do with them after, you know what I'm saying? There's nobody in this business could be like, yo, I did terrible business with them, or, yo, I started making wax stuff. It was just life. I became. I became a liability in some ways, you know what I'm saying? And only. Right, Right. You know what I'm saying? When you're dealing with business and it's like. Like, yo, this kid today that we invested in, tomorrow he might be in projects and he called a gun or be in the shootout and being this stuff, right? Why would you invest in that? So it was a. It was a lot of that. So, yo, listen, man, again, like, I wouldn't have it no other way, you know what I'm saying? Because now it's a testament. And it. My story could be used to. As a prevention and a cautionary tale. And. And that's. And that's what it's for.

[Memphis Bleak]

Like, when you first came home, you know what I mean? Like, I know when you first come home, the first thing you want to do is get back to family, get back to the kids, get back to. Yo, I'm going to get back on the grind. But one thing I respect that you did, man, is start your foundation, the Rugged Road to Recovery, man. I respect that. That's a really pleasant and great movement you created.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

Because I said to myself, I want to be what I needed. You know what I'm saying? I want to be what I really needed. And I know these youth need it. And they don't want to hear from somebody that really. That really can't tell them, like, yo, B, my mom's. My mom's. In two state bids, I was 16 years old, taking care of a whole house, Going up to Bedford Hills to visit my moms, going up to Clinton to visit my pops, but running a household by myself with a bunch of friends in the house, you know what I'm saying? And it's like, that was just my reality, you know what I mean? And on the forefront, people just see the music and they see that and they think you fumble into music, but when you dealing with real life at the same time, they don't see that other half. So it was just like, I was just trying to navigate through life, you know what I'm saying?

[Memphis Bleak]

Like, with that being said, like, you know, it's a lot of young stars in the game now, and, you know, a lot of these young guys is got turbulence in their track record right now, man. You know what I'm saying? So do you feel like the industry do enough to protect young stars?

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

It's not for that. Again, it's a business. It's a business. And the minute that your business ain't making no money, that's. You'll be to the side and trying to figure out life, you know what I mean? And that's how I tell yo, holla at me, man. All of them out there, man, holla at me, man. And it's not for no bread or nothing, because I do this for my heart, you know what I'm saying? So if there's any of time, don't feel shy, hit me on the dm. I'm gonna give you the game. I'm gonna give it to you for what it is. You might not like it, but it's just the truth. You know what I mean, Barb?

[Memphis Bleak]

Like, yo, and you know what I'm saying, like, being from New York, we always consider Staten island the Fifth Borough.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

Yeah, well, sometimes. Sometimes it gives a long hour. I'm just saying. Joke. I'm just saying, like, sometimes we get left out, though.

[Memphis Bleak]

Yo, that's what I was going to say. Do you feel like Staten island get enough credit for the impact y' all contributed to hip hop? Cause you was the first, shorty. Wu Tang was the first project.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

Yeah, I think, straight up, I think there's a lot of grace that come from Staten island that get left out because you have foursome Ds who was one of the biggest.

[Memphis Bleak]

Straight up. Don't rock the boat.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

You know what I'm saying?

[Memphis Bleak]

Don't rock the boat.

[Commercial Voice/Advertiser]

Cut.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

Then after them, you had the UMCs. The UMCs stand out. Then you had King D. Just. King. Just was sat.

[Memphis Bleak]

Now, King J, he was the first with the iced out pendant.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

Don't front no cat now. Born click. You had Iman from Staten Island. Who else? What's her name? Melissa Alano. The actress.

[Memphis Bleak]

Yeah. W. That's my dog, Shout Out.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

Got a lot of. A lot of. A lot of grace, right?

[Memphis Bleak]

Yes, yes. What's my dog? My other dog. From the Wire, man.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

Man, we got him. We got Little Rainy.

[Memphis Bleak]

Yeah, from Power Mike. Yo, but hold on, man. Let's get back to my man Hassan, man. The invited me like, yo, Bleak. I got the club in Staten Island. Pull up. You know, I'm doing my birthday party. I'm like, all right, I'm gonna pull up. He like, yo, it's right there in the hood, bro. I got you. We good. I'm like, don't worry about. We good. All right, cool. I pull up. My. This nigga went to the store. You know how the store have, like the storage shed where they open and store them box? His club was down there. So I'm like, yo, nah, my, we gotta walk down. So he opened the joint, we walked down. It's a real club. Dj, chicks down there, bottles, everything.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

Yo, broke my mind for St. Paul's yo, because they was doing for St. Paul's it's like, it looked like apartment, and you go in, then you gotta go down.

[Memphis Bleak]

Yo, my, this was insane. Bought me through the storage. I'm like, yo, I never went. Yeah, I've been seeing corner stores my whole life. I see them open that, but they don't let us in there.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

Yeah, because Staten island never really had clubs. We really just had, like, bars and little speakeasies, you know what I'm saying? That that was.

[Memphis Bleak]

Had to be our club, my. Which I definitely got a lot of grace, man. Like, you know what I mean? Like, hip hop today, man. You know what I'm saying? Looking back back Wuang legacy, everything y' all contributed, because the Wu legacy, I feel like you was part of that, you know what I mean? They can't. I'm not going to leave you out of that, because when they first started, you was right there with all of them, making the same exact hits as them. You just had a little bit of turbulence in your life to where people might forget. But to me, you was always a part of that legacy, man. Like, do you feel like. Like what y' all contributed to the game? Ever get misunderstood? Or do you feel like it's larger than you ever thought?

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

Listen, listen. Wuang is nominated to be in the Rock Rock, Rock. What's that? Rock hall of Fame.

[Memphis Bleak]

Yeah, Rock and Roll hall of Fame.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

You don't get that by chance. So when they make it, I make it.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's a fact.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

Saying it's all good. Like, you know what I'm saying? Am I going to be on the stage with them? Probably not. You know what I'm saying? I always tell People, there's three Wu Tangs, you know what I'm saying? The corporation you may know as a business that. Yo, if you ain't doing the business with the corporation, ain't no really room for you.

[Memphis Bleak]

Yo, listen. Then it's the group 40 Wu Tang members.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

But I'm Wu. Same family for life.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's a fact, man. And I respect that. Y' all all still show love. Cause I just seen you with meth.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

Yeah.

[Memphis Bleak]

You know, rest in peace to the ghost power.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

Rest in peace power.

[Memphis Bleak]

You know what I mean? I seen you with Ghost Ray, like. And that's dope, man. Cause you know, a lot of people forget where they come from when they say you get security. Success.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

Yeah.

[Memphis Bleak]

You know what I mean? And these is giants and success. And they still with where they come from.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

Well, but like I say, it's different relationships. Right? So you have. Although you have all the success. Like, for instance, you lose a loved one that everybody knows. You got to come back to the bottom.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's right.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

And you got to be with your people. So if you can't come back home, what you really got? You really don't got nothing.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's a fact. If you can't go back, you ain't got nothing, man.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

But. But yeah. Nah. The clan. The clan. Everybody, man. You know, and. And with the Internet sometime with it being so much music out there, there's people still pop the Brown Hornet. You know what I'm saying? GP Woo. That's all the dudes that still. They still. Everybody's still making music, but it's just so much that it get lost in it. And the clan being so big, like, even for me, like, I made a lot of accomplishments, but being under the clan, it gets swallowed. It could get swallowed. I know. You know, you can make a hit right now and they gonna be like, they're okay with J Nation.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's a fact, bro. It's like holding a candle to the sun. My. I've been dealing with that shit my whole life, so. I totally agree. Like, do you feel. I know you wanted. We spoke. Cause you hit me. You know, I had my dog shout

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

out, Cassidy, man, what's up, Cass? What's up?

[Memphis Bleak]

I had my dog up here. Soon as the episode air shot hit me like bleak. I gotta. It ain't happen like that. I ain't leave the dog like that. And I'm like, shy. Shy. He didn't on you, though.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

No, he didn't. He did. Not on me. But this is right. It's like, what they call that suggestive. Suggestive conversation and leading. Right. So first, right. I, I, because it was two parts of this story.

[Memphis Bleak]

Yeah.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

He said, he said he, he said I left him stranded.

[Memphis Bleak]

That you called, you told him come to New York and then answer the

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

phone first, first we have to be together for me to leave you. So I didn't leave you nowhere. We never link. So I'mma take you back to 1994. Now you know who I am in 1994.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's right.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

Already this super lit Cassidy was a young rapper aspiring to be. Get on or whatever, whatever. I'm in Philly, coming out of a sneaker store. I don't remember if they asked me could he rap for me or if they was already rapping. And you know us, we seen the cipher. We was going to see what it was about.

[Memphis Bleak]

What's up?

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

Yeah. And to this day, Cassidy is a nice and right. So I said, yo, we, we could not connect there. I said, yo, here's my number again. I give him a house number.

[Memphis Bleak]

I didn't have no cell phones back.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

Only people that had cell phones was big time drug dealers, businessman. Because you needed the credit.

[Memphis Bleak]

When Biggie said phone bill, three G's flag, he was not playing.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

Like it was like 10, $2010.

[Memphis Bleak]

That block phone was three grand. And we don't even know who we paid. We paid some op.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

So I gave, I give him my house number, right? And we did make plans for him to come to State Staten Island. So I tell them, yo, meet me at the bus station Port Authority now. I go to Port Authority now, mind you. I meet him this one time. I don't know what he looked like. So I'm at the Port Authority waiting for him. He has to know what I look like. At this time, you didn't have access to rappers. Me standing at the Port Authority was mayhem.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's right.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

So I'm there for a while. I left, I get back to Staten, I'm going to crib. Anybody call, I'm going back outside, coming back in. Anybody call. If you was from the 90s, you knew how I had. You lost girlfriends that way. People lost that. So then I get them on the phone, I'm like, yo bro, you got to come to Staten island now. Because I was already there. Now the ferry, if you ever been to the ferry, same deal. Now this different is I'm from Staten Island. So it's even worse because everybody that I know is coming up to me. So I made the attempt to go right. I'm waiting don't see him. I break out, right? We don't link up.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

Picture this me, Reese Witherspoon in London ordering fish and chips so often they might start wrapping me in paper. I'm traveling with my Wells Fargo Autograph Journey card, so I earn rewards wherever I book travel five times points with hotels, four times with airlines, three times on restaurants and other travel and one point on other purchases. Imagine getting rewarded for eating a toad in the hole. Wait, what is a toad in a hole?

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[Commercial Voice/Advertiser]

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[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

Let them put a chicken on a

[Commercial Voice/Advertiser]

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[Memphis Bleak]

Lenovo.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

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[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

And I say it was just miscommunication. He didn't have no phone. He had to go to payphones.

[Commercial Voice/Advertiser]

You know what I'm saying?

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

He didn't know where he was going, so it was just a thing of leave you nowhere. I had great intentions for you, you know what I'm saying? I wasn't trying to sign you. Like, why would I? I didn't have to give you my number to even go through all of this. So I thought he had talent and I was trying to give him. And I couldn't do nothing for him, really, anyway. But bring him to see RZA or bring him to see rns and maybe they can give him a beat. Other than that, I wasn't trying to be no manager. I wasn't trying to be a hoodie. Right now we're moved to years later after that, Cass actually makes it, right. I don't. Still don't know he's the same person. So I bump into him at a party. So the part that's Cap, that I was like, yo, that's Cap. I never went up to no bouncer and said, yo, that's my cousin. I don't even do that with the clan. The Klan. Can't say, yo, I ever went to a show that they didn't invite me to that knew I was coming and be like, yo, tell them shots at the back door never happened. There's nobody in the game that could ever say I did that. So that's why I felt like, yo, that's like making it seem like you told the story. Like I caught the vapors, like, nah. Then I seen you and you on and I try to use you as my cousin. That's what was capped. So that ain't happened. Was we at a party? Yes. And we got. And he said, yo, it's me. And I said, oh, yo, congratulations. You know what I'm saying? You did that. Boom, boom, boom, but that's the truth of it. And the same thing, I spoke to Cass, right? So what ended up happening through our whole melee? I made my video on the Instagram and said, yo, so what end up happening? It's a small one world. One of my OGs, the big A Bear, did a lot of time in the state is. And. And DJ Finesse Rock, Rough Riders, and Mathematics. Rough Riders, the OGs, they know each other. So they caught wind of it and said, nah, this can't go down. Let's get them on the phone. So me, Cass, and all of them was on the phone, and I told him like I told Cash, right? Right there. I told him the same situation. Yo, bro, I had nothing but great intentions for you. You know what I'm saying? Know what I'm saying? But who's this bouncer that told you that I'm your cousin, right? Oh, I don't know him. So how you gonna say that, right? How you gonna say that when we can't even verify that? It made me look like, yo, haha. When you was on you, you. You on him. And then when he was on you was trying to say he was your cousin. That ain't happened. So I did tell him. I said, yo, I'm gonna speak the peace when I get up here with Bleak. I'm gonna tell him. And also, if you felt that way when I came home, I can show you the dms. Welcome home, Bull. And you have my number. If you felt I left you like that, why didn't you say that on the phone? And I would have told you that my piece did. That was the only thing. And he said to his defense, he said, yo, I didn't think of it. It was that big of an issue. I didn't hold no malice towards you, but I was just telling the story.

[Memphis Bleak]

Yes.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

And respectfully. And. And actually, what was great about it, we got a banging record. I'm gonna let you hear it. We got a record call. What's up? And. And yo, listen, man, it worked out for.

[Memphis Bleak]

It worked out for Cass, my dog, man. You know?

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

Like, he's a beast on that bike.

[Memphis Bleak]

He's a beast, my G. You know what I mean? All them Philly niggas, man, I fuck with all of them. Cat's my dog. So that's why when we spoke, I'm like, yo, shy, he ain't shit on you. Cause I ain't. Cause I'm like, yo, I don't got.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

Then I was like, yo, you with Bleak doing this shit?

[Memphis Bleak]

Nah, yo, and you heard me. I like shy. He said it, not me.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

Listen, listen, no, and listen. That told me a lot about your character that I gotta tell you to your face that I respect is that you didn't have to give me this space. You could have felt like, nah, we was going at each other on the Internet. And I'm not coming of like. But. But, yo, this is the game we play. We in a lot of. There's a lot of people that's lame. So I say, yo, you know what? And for the people out there that probably gonna try to post old interviews I did and try to reserve it.

[Memphis Bleak]

I love that because it's gonna boost this.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

I always say, yo, you always did a great job on this. And I never. I never, you know, say anything that we never said to each other.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's a fact. Like, we always been locked in since my. We've been about 14, 15 years old, bro. Like. And that's the thing people didn't see back then was no social media, was no MySpace, no Instagra, Facebook. You had to be outside. So when Cass told the story like, yo, you took the boat to Staten island and ain't answer was like, yeah, they was in the middle of nowhere, cuz, you know, when you get off that, if you don't know about them $vance, but when you a teenager ghost,

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

you're not even thinking. I wasn't even thinking at all. Once we couldn't link up, I was outside, it was. No, we didn't chill in the house. So even the back and forth was doing too much.

[Memphis Bleak]

And think back then, my being lit. Yeah, that's the.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

Oh, this is the part. This the part that was. They said Method Man. He went somewhere with Method Man. Why would anybody from my crib tell you who I left with? And they don't know you. They're not going to sit there and go, yo, he left with Method Man. They going to be like, you know, back in the days. Hello, can I speak to. He's not here. Click. You didn't get nothing more than he's not here. Click.

[Memphis Bleak]

Click. Yo, my mom's banged on. Get rest in peace. Jam Master J and Puff banged on them, thought they was lying, called the crib. Like, what you ain't, man. Come Click, come tell me. Yo, that was just something.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

This is the days of the Jerky Boys. So the Jerky Boys would call you, people would prank you. Like, they was Jerky Boys.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's a fact, my G. Like, you put in so much work. Historic and a legend. In my eyes, it always been a real one from the ground up. It never changed. My G. From 1995, 94 when I met you to today, my G, you always been the same one. You stand on minute niggas say something shy on your line, nigga. Come on, bro. Why you go try yo you like yo. So I respect that. Cause a lot of be acting like, yeah, I don't with son no more. And me you was coming on this platform regardless if cab that happened with Cassidy, if that happened with me and you, bro, I don't erase chapters in my book. Yeah. And you a major chapter in my book. Not only meeting you as the first being on and inspiring me, like I could do it.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

Yeah.

[Memphis Bleak]

But when Jay told me, yo, my. You know, that was supposed to be for homie.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

Yeah.

[Memphis Bleak]

If homie didn't dub me, I.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

You see, that's. That's a. That's a conversation like.

[Memphis Bleak]

Because, yo, I was like, show it to him.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

I ain't never dub no.

[Memphis Bleak]

He gonna see this. I never dubbed you, yo.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

Listen, I would like to know who said that I dubbed you because I

[Memphis Bleak]

be doing on this.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

That ain't happen that way. But sometimes it's always for the. For. For the later, right? You don't know what it could present. You know, I can also understand. Understand feeling dubbed. Right? So he might have felt there could have been things he could have had me in mind for later and be like, oh, this dubbed me when I never even got it. I never even got the call. I never even got that.

[Memphis Bleak]

And that's how it was, man. That's whack. Cause you'll meet a project through a project through a project and be like, yeah, I with son. I represent him. And he ain't got no line to you.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

Or. Or if they didn't benefit from it directly, they wouldn't make it happen.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's a fact.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

You know what I'm saying? And Jay wasn't Jay.

[Memphis Bleak]

No.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

So people might have felt he was

[Memphis Bleak]

J D, J Hyphen, Jay Z there. He wasn't Jigga Hov. None of that back then.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

But I was honestly, it was a proud moment, my dude. Cause I ordered the book. Cause I was ordering it as a fan. And then I turn it and I'm reading. I'm like, what? What?

[Memphis Bleak]

What was like, what the fuck?

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

Come on. But it also was. It also let me know the mark that I made.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's so fucking.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

And I'm like, if the greatest rapper, if not the greatest, one of the greatest rappers viewed me in that then

[Memphis Bleak]

I am that you were my G and you are my 100% man. So when people say the name Shaheen, what you want them to remember first?

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

Oh, man. What I wanted to remember is that I would hope that with all my success and everything that I took, I took my people with me, you know what I mean? I never left. That's right, you know what I'm saying? I never left nobody alone. I never not answered my phone for dudes in jail. I made. I visited everybody I could. I didn't get it in return, you know, I'm saying a lot of things that I did, but it's. It's not. It wasn't really for that because I didn't do it for that. I would just like. I would just like people to know that, you know, again, nobody's exempt from mistakes. And I corrected my error errors, you know what I'm saying? That's all I strive to do is correct my errors and be better than I was yesterday today. I mean, be better today than I was yesterday in all factors, you know what I mean? And with successes, right? So it's. It's like people view success in a lot of ways, you know what I mean? And I always tell people like, yo, I wasn't really coming home competing with the rap game. I was competing with my dudes that was left in. In the system. And when I got out on parole, I maxed out on parole. I did good, you know what I'm saying? I'm a married man, you know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? My children is successful. My. My sons is top. Their top influences right now. Millions shout out to Capri and Kane and my boys shout out the young,

[Memphis Bleak]

the young blood, the young gods, man,

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

you know what I'm saying? Me and my wife got a jewelry business. Bonded by brazen beauties, you know what I'm saying? So we out doing our thing, you know what I'm saying? My brother Sean breed and beating the odds, you know what I'm saying? They doing they thing and our whole team is just moving, man. Big Malik and just a small unit, you know what I'm saying? Within a bigger unit, you know what I'm saying? And that's it, man.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's all you need is a small circle, man. Long as y' all all moving on one accord, man. You can get. You can move mountains, my G, 100%, man. So what does redemption mean to you personally with all that being said? Sad. I know it gotta mean something.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

Oh, man, it's. It's just, It's a reminder, right? It's a reminder that if you don't stay on the course, you'll be telling the same story again. Talking about, yo, I'm. I'm recovering again, just like, again, my. You just got out saying this, right? So I, I strive, I strive on that. Am I perfect? Nah, not at all. You know what I'm saying? We all stumble, we all do things, but I'm. I live my life purposeful now, you know what I'm saying? I'm not the guy that's just going places without a purpose, you know what I'm saying? So if I don't get personally invited, chances are you won't see me.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's right.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

Because if I'm not invited, I could be treated anyway.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's right.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

And I don't like to be treated anyway. I like to be invited. So I know, hey, you come and you respect me and I, I expect to be treated a certain way.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's right.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

So that's it. You know what I'm saying? And I love kind gestures. So if somebody don't give me a kind gesture, it's like, yo, when people really look for you for the best interest of you, like me, you know, I love ball, so I always played ball. I always was a point guard at heart. So anybody that I play that's on my team, when I got the ball, I'm looking at the floor to give it to go, get back open score, get back on defense.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's right.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

You know what I'm saying?

[Memphis Bleak]

That's right. Teamwork.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

Some people don't get that. Some people see you with holes in your sneakers, they leave you. And because you don't ask them, and they don't want to feel Big Willy for you asking them that you don't need it. I'm the type, if I see you got holes in your sneakers, we just, I'm say, take a spin with me. We just gonna be in the mal. I'm gonna be buying something, say, yo, cop something, or if I go to your crib, you don't got nothing in the fridge. I'm not gonna say, damn, this bum ass nigga ain't got no food. I'm gonna go like, I gotta get something, Be like, yo, grab some shit for you. Nah, N. Grab that shit. Because at the end of the day, you a man. And I just wish sometimes that people that's in the position that could just maybe have a little more empathy and do good kindness to People and pay it forward. Cause this is funny story, right? How I learned about paying it forward was that Dunkin Donuts in the morning going to get my Dunkin Donuts. So I tell him what I want. Yo, let me get a large coffee, such and such. Let me get a pup cup for my dog, right?

[Memphis Bleak]

Yeah.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

So the lady goes, oh, don't worry about it. The guy in the front paid for you. I said, pay for me? Yo, yo, you made me pay match. He's like, no, pay it for it. And I was like, oh, snap. So that's when I did it. Yo, the person behind me, pay for them and tell them to pay it forward. And I learned that you never know what somebody's going through that day. And somebody could have had to make the decision, am I going to get this coffee and the bagel this morning and skip lunch and go through work all hungry? I just helped them out. So now they could get their coffee or whatever and they can get lunch.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's a.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

So I just like to pay things forward.

[Memphis Bleak]

No, that's. That's the right thing, man. I got my partner, Fred C. In Vegas, man. He always said, yo, bleak one hand, wash the other, man. Everybody trying to make it. Some of these. Some. Some of these need that extra pound, man. Don't just give them the five, give them extra pounds. So we. We definitely live by that over here, man. So what's the next chapter for my dog? What's. What's next that people gonna see from shot?

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

Well, what was next is the rugged shot story stage play. Also the. The. The memoir that's going to come with the album because I don't want to play the DSP game. So it's going to be like the old books with the library card. So you get the album in the book. And, you know, I'm. I'm taking it. I'm taking. Taking it to the street because working with my wife during retail, I learned retail, and I'm like, yo, I'm playing a different game with this. And it's about product.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's right.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

And it's. I could sell ashtrays and put my. On the ashtray, move my music and allocate the price of my music within the ashtray and sell ashtrays and still make more money off my music than dudes is making off streaming. So it's just learning process and. And doing things with. With products and, you know, which brings that up. Shout out. I got. I got some gifts. Shout out to Mark Wahlberg and municipal. Municipal Mark Wahlberg.

[Memphis Bleak]

Is my dog, man.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

Is the Rugged Road of Recovery.

[Memphis Bleak]

I do, man, that dope, man. I love what you're doing.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

Rugged Road to Recovery and Municipal.

[Memphis Bleak]

Oh, that's dope.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

It's a couple sizes me.

[Memphis Bleak]

I appreciate you my guy and all that.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

So y' all make sure y' all tap in and support.

[Memphis Bleak]

You know what I'm saying?

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

Municipal, you know, also. Also.

[Memphis Bleak]

Also shout out my Wahlberg. That's my guy, man.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

Shout out to vans. Vans also supports the Rugged Road.

[Memphis Bleak]

Shout out to Vans, man.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

My initiatives, Cold headwear and redo. All. All the, you know, the businesses that support me and the initiatives that. That allows me to go into these prisons that, you know, that Rugged Road recoveries in a few states. San Diego, Los Angeles, Boston, New Jersey, and New York. We in five states right now. Now. So any programs out there that want to partner, holla at me. And in doing so, I had to check myself in it, right? Because you want to do and help everybody. Then I had to look at my own backyard and say, yo, damn. I still got family struggling and things like that. So now Rugged Road to Recovery is now going into more of being a grant, Applying grants for people that does the work. So small grants to help mothers with daycare. You know what I'm saying? Like, it might be a mother that's struggling, struggling for child care for the week. You know, it don't have to be much. I go through daycare, see a little 200. You'll give it to a woman that's struggling, that's behind on her things, and just. I just try to help out. And, you know, I'm saying just take from what I make from music or whatever and just. Just pay it forward.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's a fact, man. That's a blessing, my G. That's why you triple platinum, man. You ain't knowing about record sales. It's the impact you leave and the mark you make in the world, man. And you made your mark, and you definitely left an impact on the world. And I had to bring you here to give you your flowers. Cause you the rugged child now. The mad child. My first to do it, man. Let's give some respect like, you know, man. Shahim in the building. Stapleton legend. Staten island legend. Rap legend. Yeah, you young boys better pay some respect and do your history, man. Cause trust me, that diddy bop likely came from a dog. You already know we here, you know what I'm saying? The rock.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

The rock and rock solid.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's right, my brother. Always, man. Appreciate you for pulling up man, you know what it is? It's rock solid. My guys stay solid. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows at. And you can follow me on any social media platform under the name Memphis Bleak. You see anybody frauding, flag them.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

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[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

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[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

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[Commercial Voice/Advertiser]

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[Podcast Host/Announcer]

it matters that we're not just in your community, but that we're part of it. It matters that we're here for you when you need us, day or night, and we want everyone to feel welcomed and rewarded. It matters that CVS is here to fill your prescriptions and here to fill your craving for a tasty and yeah, healthy snack. At cvs, we're proud to serve your community because we believe where you get your medicine matters. So Visit [e-mail] or just come by our store. We can't wait to meet you. Store hours vary by location. We all have different styles. I may be into Levi's and you may be into Fendi or Miu Miu. But we all should be into to poshmark.com right? Because we can all find exactly what we want to fit our style. Poshmark has millions of new and pre lived pieces. Vintage, luxury, men's, women's, children's, everything from Carhartt to Coach. Head to poshmark.com, sign up with code podcast10 and get $10 off your first purchase.

[Commercial Voice/Advertiser]

Every Lenovo is built to let them move.

[Shaheem the Rugged Child]

Let them put a chicken on a

[Commercial Voice/Advertiser]

skateboard, please let them scale, copy and change. Change it up. Let them make a purple sky with raining soccer balls incoming. Let them launch their vision to the world. Let them make Powered by Intel Core Ultra processors, Lenovo gives creatives everything they need. Lenovo.com let creatives create.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.