Zab Judah | ROC Solid w/ Memphis Bleek

Summary

ROC Solid w/ Memphis Bleek – Zab Judah

Episode Date: February 3, 2026
Podcast Network: The Black Effect Podcast Network and iHeartPodcasts
Guest: Zab Judah

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Episode Overview

This episode features legendary boxer Zab Judah in a wide-ranging, animated conversation with host Memphis Bleek. The two Brooklyn natives reminisce about their respective upbringings, the intersection of hip-hop and boxing, career highs and lows, business hustles, and the enduring culture of Brooklyn. The episode captures Zab's quick wit and deep insight, offering both boxing aficionados and hip-hop fans plenty of stories and untold moments from ROC history and beyond.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Growing Up in Brownsville & The Making of a Champ

• Life in the 1980s Brownsville: Zab describes coming of age during a rough era, witnessing the crack epidemic and rapid changes in his neighborhood.
  • “I seen the epidemic. I seen crack come, tear everything up… Thank God for my mother and father, kept us in boxing. I started at five…” (05:25)
• Building Discipline Young: Zab’s father, himself a fighter, introduced him to boxing at 5, shaping Zab’s discipline and outlook from a young age.
• Amateur to Pro: With an amateur record of 115-5 and representing in the 1996 Olympics, Zab quickly transitioned to pro, becoming world champ by 20.
  • “By 20 years old, I was the champ of the world. So I’m only telling you all these numbers… so you can understand the timeline.” (07:39)

2. ROC-A-Fella Ties, Style, and Boxing Swag

• First Athlete in ROC: Zab clarifies he was ROC before there was Roc Nation or Rockawear, even modeling for the brand at launch.
  • “There was only Roc-A-Fella. There was nothing else… Wasn’t even Rockawear yet.” (08:54)
• Hip-Hop & Boxer Swag: Memphis Bleek credits Zab as the blueprint for merging street, hip-hop, and ring swagger, likening his impact to Allen Iverson’s on basketball.
  • “I felt like you was the first boxer that really represented what we represent, like an artist.” (10:06)
• Zab admits he didn’t realize at the time how much he was crossing boundaries between sports and music, but looking back, he sees how much this mattered to fans.

3. Mentality, Preparation, and Career Lessons

• Facing All Challengers:
  • “You one of the only who never duck no smoke… you fought them all. Line them up.” (14:05)
  • Zab attributes this to a Brooklyn upbringing: “You might fight him today, him tomorrow… that’s kind of crazy right there.” (14:33)
• Defining Fights: Zab discusses pivotal bouts (Mickey Ward, Cory Spinks)—the pain, the business, and lessons learned.
  • Mickey Ward body shot: “I almost… I thought it was over …I told my dad ‘he broke my ribs’… he said ‘use the other side!’” (15:33)
• On Don King: They discuss Don King’s reputation, hustle, and how opportunity sometimes outweighed immediate money in boxing.
  • “I made a lot of bread…he introduced me to a great lifestyle…he had old-fashioned business mentality—that ‘three for me, one for you’...” (23:46)

4. Brooklyn Roots & Hip-Hop Integration

• ROC & Dipset Connections: Zab shares how being “outside” led to relationships with the whole ROC family, Dipset in Harlem, Foxy, Kim, and more.
• Backroom Deals & 40/40 Club Memories:
  • “A lot of money talk in that backroom, man…” (11:35)
• Classic NYC Childhoods: Bleek and Zab reminisce about Brownsville, learning toughness in the street, and street games like Skelly and Suicide.
• Legendary ROC Stories:
  • The Change Clothes video shoot and Dame Dash incident (35:11).
  • “He said he gonna drop me, right? You ain’t sign me, right. But it’s my company. And I’m like, what?” (37:01)
  • “Dame ain’t no sucker… you gotta approach Dame with that caution.” (37:51)

5. Handling Loss, Longevity, and Mindset

• Dealing with Losses:
  • “I was just numb to the fact that, yo, I’m great. So even when the loss came, I still say, that’s not a loss, that’s a lesson.” (32:48)
  • “Go look at my losses, y’all… I’m bodying it…” (33:04)
• Never Ducking Smoke:
  • “We can’t beat everybody but we definitely ain’t gonna run from nobody.” (33:15)
  • “You beat me, you gotta fight the Judah brothers. It’s ten of us—beat all of us.” (33:41)

6. Business Moves & Life After Boxing

• Early Financial Lessons: Thanks to his father, Zab says he learned to manage winnings and parlay success beyond the ring.
  • “I thank God for my father… knowing how to shake and bake from the 70s...” (25:24)
• Post-Boxing Hustle: Zab discusses his wife’s Undisputed Toys line and a new cigar bar in Woodland Hills.
  • “Sticks Cigar Bar… private cigar bar… come in, let’s make it big.” (57:22)
• Coaching & Mentorship: Zab helps develop talents like Devin Haney, proud to watch the next generation thrive, and praises Bill Haney’s fatherly mentorship.
  • “When you are part of something like that, you gotta feel proud.” (47:33)

7. On Legacy, Fame, and Giving Back

• Public vs. Private Recognition:
  • “Far as what the boxing community gives me…that really doesn’t worry me. When I come outside and talk to the people on the ground, they tell me different.” (49:53)
  • “What does the name Zab Judah mean to you?”—“Exactly what you just said…coming from you.” (54:33)
• Reflections on Impact:
  • Zab often reflects privately on his career, but says he focuses on new goals instead of looking back.
  • “If you sit in that place and get comfortable, that’s gonna go to your brain. I can’t even look at what I did with boxing…” (52:40)
• “I love everybody…even if I don’t know you, I love you. Even if you didn’t like me, I love you.” (57:38)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On first-round knockouts:
  “Before you make it to your seat, I bet you…you was turning back around—it was over." — Zab (04:01)
• On fighting Floyd Mayweather:
  “You the only … who put that pain on Floyd…and you know, the whole hood, everybody know that.” — Bleek (26:31)
• Mike Tyson’s wisdom on money & friendship:
  “Mike said, ‘You know what? Y’all gonna fight. It’s the money, brother. They gonna give you so much money, you gonna look at him like he the devil… But that’s what you supposed to do.’” — Zab (28:09)
• On learning from Don King:
  “He was good at like, he’ll call you and buy you something... you get the Rolls [Royce], pull up to your house… You not thinking about who’s paying for this?” — Zab (17:27)
• Brooklyn toughness:
  “We can’t beat everybody but we definitely ain’t gonna run from nobody.” — Bleek (33:15)
• On legacy:
  “Legend, bro. When you think of Brooklyn and fighting, it’s Mike Tyson and Zab Judah, and that’s it.” — Bleek (54:31)
  “Exactly what you just said... that’s what it means.” — Zab (54:33)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:09] Zab arrives, shares Atlantic City fight story and ROC ring walk with Bleek and Jay-Z.
• [05:12] Growing up in Brownsville and discovering boxing.
• [07:39] Becoming champ at age 20; rapid career ascent.
• [10:05] Hip-hop/boxing crossover, Brooklyn swag, artist energy in the ring.
• [15:02] Defining fights—Mickey Ward and Cory Spinks stories.
• [17:11] Working with Don King—money, business, and hustle lessons.
• [26:31] Mayweather fight; only boxers to ever “rattle the tank”.
• [35:11] Change Clothes video shoot, Dame Dash altercation.
• [46:34] Mentoring Devin Haney and legacy in the gym.
• [53:06] Reflections on career; thoughts on exhibitions.
• [57:22] Ventures: Undisputed Toys and Sticks Cigar Bar.

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Conclusion

Packed with personal anecdotes, Brooklyn pride, insights on boxing, business, and the unique bridge between sports and hip-hop, this episode cements Zab Judah as both a street legend and a culture-setter. For aspiring athletes, hip-hop heads, and anyone who loves New York stories, it’s ROC solid—straight from those who lived it.

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"Stay solid. Stay ROC."

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For more ROC Solid, visit iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen

Transcript

[Zab Judah]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Memphis Bleak]

Guaranteed Human black history lives in our.

[Zab Judah]

Stories, our culture, and the conversations we still having today, this Black History Month.

[Memphis Bleak]

The podcast I didn't know. Maybe you didn't either. Digs into the moments, perspectives, and experiences that don't always make the textbook. Let me tell you about Garrett Morgan Bruh.

[Zab Judah]

Had to pretend he didn't even exist just to sell his own invention.

[Memphis Bleak]

Listen to I didn't know. Maybe you didn't either. From the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or simply wherever you get your podcast. This is Ryder Strong, and I have a new podcast called the red weather.

[Zab Judah]

In 1995, my neighbor Anna Trainor disappeared from a commune.

[Memphis Bleak]

It was nature and trees and praying and drugs.

[Zab Judah]

So, no, I am not your guru.

[Memphis Bleak]

Back then, I lied to everybody.

[Zab Judah]

They have had this case for 30 years. Going back to my hometown to uncover the truth. Listen to the Red Weather on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Memphis Bleak]

This show contains information subject to but not limited to, personal takes, rumors, not so accurate stats, and plenty more. What's up, man? It's your boy, Nav Green from the Broken Play Podcast. Look, it's the end of the season. The playoffs are here. Guess what? It ain't the end of your season. You can always tune in with with Broken Play podcast with Nav Green on the Black Effect Podcast Network. Not a team who ain't going to the playoffs.

[Zab Judah]

The chief.

[Memphis Bleak]

It's time to rebuild. Listen to Broken Play with Nav Green from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Zab Judah]

When segregation was a law, one mysterious black club owner Charlie Fitzgerald had his own rules. Segregation in the day, integration at night. It was like stepping in another world. Was he a businessman?

[Memphis Bleak]

A criminal?

[Zab Judah]

A hero?

[Memphis Bleak]

Charlie was an example of power.

[Zab Judah]

They had to crush him. Charlie's place from Atlas Obscura and visit Myrtle Beach. Listen to Charlie's place on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Memphis Bleak]

What up, y'?

[Zab Judah]

All?

[Memphis Bleak]

This your main man, Memphis Bleak, right here. Welcome to Rock Solid, a production of iHeartRadio and the Black Effect Network in partnership with my guys over at Drink Champs.

[Zab Judah]

You should know by now. You should know by now.

[Memphis Bleak]

Yeah, Yeah, y'. All. You know what it is. Back with another exclusive rock solid podcast. And I'm here with my bro, and I mean my Brooklyn bro, he knocked out, literally. We put that pain in, you know, what he do now? He out here in Vegas, big family man, married like me, moving around. Got all the brothers out here knocking out from Brooklyn to Vegas to la. You know what it is, man. Y' all make some noise for my dude Zab in the building. The one hit a quitter. What's up, my brother? How you been, man?

[Zab Judah]

I'm chilling, man. Blessed.

[Memphis Bleak]

I appreciate you pulling up, man. I appreciate it. Don't know we've been in the trenches a lot, bro. You know what I'm saying?

[Zab Judah]

Long time.

[Memphis Bleak]

Yo, talk about that AC fight. We was just out there talking about it. This was back in what, like 0203?

[Zab Judah]

Yeah, this is. This is. So this is the night that Don King put on the biggest. The biggest show of the night of the. Of the year. I mean, of the century.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's right.

[Zab Judah]

It was Bernard Hopkins, Haseem Rockman, Corey Spinks, Holyfield. It was me. It. It was Champ Mayorga. It was so many. Champion of the champion of the champion. It was the biggest car. And I told everybody, I said, well, we all can't fight. Cause I can't fight you heavyweights, little guy. But one thing I can do is I'm gonna steal the best fighter of the night.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's right.

[Zab Judah]

And I went in there and caught a first round knockout. And how I promised Bleak was. I told Bleak, I said, bleak, before you make it to your seat, I bet you. Excuse me. Before Bleek made it to his seat, he was turning back around and come back in the ring, it was over.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's right. He on his back pockets and OG.

[Zab Judah]

And HOV was right there watching. Yo, Hov missed the whole thing. When he turned his head back, he was looking like, yo, what happened? It's over.

[Memphis Bleak]

Over, my G. Like, literally. I never forget. I got the call. You hit me like, yo, Bleak, I want you to walk me out to the ring. Walk me to the ring on the fight. I'm like, hell, yeah. Then we.

[Zab Judah]

We.

[Memphis Bleak]

We get in the dressing room, son back there do know, hitting the bag, you know, getting warmed up. And I said, y. I just thought, I'm like, yo, Z, we can't go out here and lose this fight. My. We gonna look bad. I think it's like, lose, lose. Watch this. Like he said before I got to my seat, ding, ding, ding. Over, over, over. Let's go party. Blizz, we gonna watch the rest of this. Let's go party. First round, my G. And we had.

[Zab Judah]

A good time that night, too.

[Memphis Bleak]

Turned up, turned up, but let's go Back for the people, you know, they always want to know the beginning, the story. They, you know, from Brooklyn, everything. What was it like for you growing up in Brownsville at that era, that time in your life?

[Zab Judah]

Yeah, you know, growing up Brownsville, I was born in 77, you know. You know, so I had, you know, the, you know, I came outside in the 80s. I was outside in the 80s, right. 80s was no joke. The early 80s. I'm talking about them.

[Memphis Bleak]

No joke, no cameras.

[Zab Judah]

That's. No. Damn, that 80, 81, 82, 83. Like it was. It was mean. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. I mean, you know, I seen the epidemic. I seen. I seen crack come. I seen it come and tear everything up, smash everybody out. I seen the environment. Everything changed. And I just stayed strong. I mean, you know, thank God for my mother. I had a strong mother with me, and I had a strong father. You know, my father kept us in boxing. I started boxing at the age of 5 years old because my father was a fighter. People always say, when I say 5 years old, they, how the fuck would you fight at 5? I started training at 5 years old. My dad introduced the game to us around 5 years old. Cause that's the. That's the only. See me as a trainer now. I know you can't train a kid more earlier than that. Why they don't have the fund. The learning fundamentals of staying focused to learn boxing before that age, you know what I'm saying? Five years old is something where you can start introducing it to them by showing them tapes and pictures and stuff like that. Then there'll be more, you know what I'm saying? A better for the situation, you know.

[Memphis Bleak]

That was one of my questions. Gonna ask you, how did your father impact, you know what I mean, your boxing? Because I know he. He carried the legacy first and then passed it on to you and your brothers, and then now you passing it on to your children. It's like the Judah legacy. Listen, don't run up on these talking. They gonna put you in your back pockets, and you ain't gonna last one round. That's a fact.

[Zab Judah]

That's a big fact.

[Memphis Bleak]

At what age did you know, like, I'm not just good, I'm that guy.

[Zab Judah]

So my. My amateur career, I was. My amateur record from six years old to 18 was 115 fights and only five losses. Damn. And I went to 1996 Olympics. So, you know, I won Golden Gloves three times. I won all of the tournaments, National Golden Gloves. So I feel like I I took amateur boxing from the bottom of the bottom, always to the top of the top, because Olympics, there's no higher to go.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's right.

[Zab Judah]

I'm saying. So I did that, then transformated, right, from there at 18 years old to professional turn, turn pro. 18 years old, September 20, 1996. By 20 years old, I was the champ of the world.

[Memphis Bleak]

Crazy.

[Zab Judah]

So I'm only telling you all these numbers like this guy, because I want you to understand the timeline.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's right.

[Zab Judah]

Of how it happened for me, you know what I'm saying? So you can understand. So when you hear other stories about me, you can kind of understand. Okay, I see why. I see why Zab was like that. You know what I'm saying? It was a fast. A fast transition. It was quick. 18 years old, you turned professional, and I turned professional under Pernell Whitaker. I'm on Pernell Whitaker. I'm fighting on all whitaker card. Boom. 20 years old, I'm champ of the world. Champ of the world. You know what I'm saying?

[Memphis Bleak]

And you moving every time, and I'm moving.

[Zab Judah]

So now I'm the son of Brooklyn.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's right.

[Zab Judah]

I'm the son of Brooklyn. There's no boxer coming out doing what I'm doing. You know what I'm saying? Like, you know what I'm saying? Now I'm meeting big. I'm meeting ho.

[Memphis Bleak]

I'm.

[Zab Judah]

I'm. I'm. You know what I'm saying?

[Memphis Bleak]

You was everywhere. Video, Kim, Foxy.

[Zab Judah]

Yes. Yeah.

[Memphis Bleak]

You was Brooklyn's son for sure. You was on.

[Zab Judah]

I'm probably one of the only Brooklyn that got Foxy and Lil Kim videos. You know, they didn't mess with each other. And if they heard you was messing.

[Memphis Bleak]

With her, that's a fact on that. The first. You the first athlete. Rockefeller. Roc Nation, we. I believe they signed, like, so.

[Zab Judah]

So. No, I'mma take it back. It was only Roc A fella. There was nothing else. No Roc Nation, no nothing. It wasn't even Rockaway yet. Rockaway. It was no Rockaway.

[Memphis Bleak]

Cause when Rockaway came out, you was the first one modeling there. Yeah, you ain't lying. Damn, that's dope.

[Zab Judah]

Like, shout out to the team.

[Memphis Bleak]

Yeah. First you and then Sebastian. Tell man, we had Brooklyn. We was rocking, man. Brooklyn, Heav.

[Zab Judah]

Everything. But, you know, I mean, we had Hope leading us, you know what I'm saying? So, I mean, you know. You know what they say. When you got a good leader, everything will be Gucci.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's a fact. Your style of boxing, like, you Know what I mean? Every box, I felt like, had their own style, but you came with the swag, right? Like, you bought that, like, style and swag, like, the street. Like, I felt like you was the first boxer that really represented what we represent, like an artist, like, like, you know, box is Mike Tyson. Is Mike Tyson. Like, you know what I mean? Muhammad Ali is Muhammad Ali. Like, it's like when AI first played basketball with the braids with the shorts hanging, sagging. That's how you was you in the ring with the, with the truck sag.

[Zab Judah]

Yeah, yeah, right.

[Memphis Bleak]

I had pulling up all Brooklyn shit. Everything. It was like you. It was almost like you were a rapper, but you were a boxer. So, like, how did you feel about being the one to introduce that to the boxing world? That style, that Brooklyn swag?

[Zab Judah]

You know what? It was bleak when you was. When it was happening. I didn't realize anything. I, I, it wasn't. No, no, no recollection of, like, Zab, you taking an epidemic of fighters transitioning into the music world. I didn't know. I didn't. I had no kind of knowledge of that, you know what I'm saying? As it started to move, to move on, you know what I'm saying? I, I can see how. Because when I was doing the whole video, people was coming to me like, yo, yo, Zab, yo, yo, where I'm Jay Z at?

[Memphis Bleak]

And I'm like, I don't know Jay Z at. Y' all still get that question today? Yo, random, see me in the airport, yo, tell Jay I said, what's up?

[Zab Judah]

You, like, be like, I got you, I got you.

[Memphis Bleak]

All right? I got you. Yeah.

[Zab Judah]

And I'm like, bro, I, I, if I run it to him, I, I'll let him know, you know?

[Memphis Bleak]

You know what I mean?

[Zab Judah]

Craziness. But, I mean, you know what? It was dope. I was in. I was embraced by the whole Rockefeller family, you know what I'm saying? Hov ho bring me in. And, you know, kept us around. And I was going from video to video and coming to the studios and, you know, 4040, that was, that was that, that was that office bleak, you know, that was our office, that back room. A lot of.

[Memphis Bleak]

A lot of money talking that back room, man.

[Zab Judah]

It was shout out to Desiree, shout.

[Memphis Bleak]

Out to the boss, shout out to Des. And that's what I was saying. Like, you always move like a star. Like, what made it intentional with your image and your interests, like. Cause your interests to. The fights were special, bro. Them shits like, you I go on YouTube to this day and watch your fights, like. Cause you was that. You was that guy, man. If nobody never. I know you knew. Like, you said, 20 years old, you the fucking champion of the world. So you knew, but you still ain't.

[Zab Judah]

No. You know why? Because they place a person in front of you that say, this guy might could beat you. So now, in your mind, all of that tough Debo guy stuff that go out the window, you like, what? All right, let me start watching. Who, him, right? We got Tate. Let me look at it. But before, you could have came in at King Kong, so they told you that you like, oh, word. Now you look at him, he came right to your size again. You know what I'm saying? So people didn't realize that. So every new challenge you take on, there's different obstacles.

[Memphis Bleak]

Yes.

[Zab Judah]

You know what I'm saying? So I had to prepare myself for the obstacle that was at hand.

[Memphis Bleak]

And how is that? Like, that's. That. I never even thought about that. Like. Yeah, they tell you, yeah, you gonna fight this now you gotta watch tape on them. Yeah, perfect his moves. Know what he like to do is. Damn, that's ill. You gotta study, like.

[Zab Judah]

But no matter what. No matter what, who. No matter who you fight, somebody gonna say, I want him to. Somebody gonna say, I want him. So you might just run into all his people and like, yo, yo, we think he gonna beat you. And you like, wait a minute. Think I could be. Wait, who does. I'm fighting. Let me go look at it. Now you're studying the person. Now you're going. You cheat, you check in and you going, okay, I. I gotta keep this up. Cause he throw that a lot. Or I gotta do this and do that. You know what I'm saying? But you bring him back down to your size.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's right.

[Zab Judah]

And then when you beat him, you go back up to the King Collie again. You know what I'm saying? I mean, like, this is crazy. And then the next fight, they come and say, but now we got, blah, blah, blah. He, blah, blah, he do this. And now you're like, okay. Every time you going in there, you always bringing guys back down. And I think, for me, it worked out great like that.

[Memphis Bleak]

Yeah.

[Zab Judah]

Because the times that I didn't look at life or boxing like that, you know, I'm saying the other thing happened. Took a defeat. We don't take it serious.

[Memphis Bleak]

Yeah.

[Zab Judah]

You're like, yo, who I'm fighting?

[Memphis Bleak]

Oh, hell, it's nothing. I got this.

[Zab Judah]

Yeah, yeah, we're Gonna go to Miami for.

[Memphis Bleak]

No.

[Zab Judah]

Yeah, you're supposed to be in the gym. You gonna hang out in Miami, you over here, you at the. You know what I'm saying?

[Memphis Bleak]

So that's a fact.

[Zab Judah]

That was one thing that I ran into.

[Memphis Bleak]

And one thing, though, with that, even. With that being said, Zab, out of all the boxes, I feel like you one of the only who never duck no smoke.

[Zab Judah]

I never done ever.

[Memphis Bleak]

Like, you fought them all. My line them up, didn't matter who was there.

[Zab Judah]

Yeah. I don't even know how to do that.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's why I feel like a lot of these. You know, I'll fight you when it's convenient for them, like, you know what I'm saying? To wait till you, you know, getting at the talent in your career, then call you out.

[Zab Judah]

You know what?

[Memphis Bleak]

You didn't care, bro.

[Zab Judah]

You know what? I guess it was the Brooklyn upraising. The Brooklyn upraising. Like, you know, you came outside and you went to the park. You don't you. You might fight him today, him tomorrow. He got a cousin that just came from North Carolina. Now you gotta fight him.

[Memphis Bleak]

Yo. Remember those days?

[Zab Judah]

Come on.

[Memphis Bleak]

I bet you can't beat my cousin, then bring his cousin.

[Zab Judah]

Yeah, yeah. You know what I'm saying? So that's. You know what I'm saying? That's kind of crazy right there when you run through them kind of things right there, you know what I mean?

[Memphis Bleak]

So that's a fact. What. What would. What fight would you say defined your career? Like, your favorite fight out of them all?

[Zab Judah]

I can't really say it's no particular one fight, because every fight put another stamp to your passport, if that shit makes sense, you know what I'm saying? Like. Because I got stuff that happened in my early career that people talk about, you know, Mickey Ward, I fought him in 98, and he hit me with a body shot. And like. Like, like almost. I almost. I thought it was over, you know what I'm saying? I got to the corner. You know how?

[Memphis Bleak]

Like, so.

[Zab Judah]

You know how we. We in the corner? My dad had it in the camera right here, the HBO camera. So I'm trying to whisper on my dad air on this ear because I don't want the camera here. I'm like, yo, I think he broke my ribs. Yeah, listen. So I'm trying to. Yeah. And my dad here, he know. He hype. He like, what I'm like, I mean, you wrote my ribs. He broke it. He said what he said. He said where? I said, right here. He Said, fuck that. Use the other side. I use the other side. Hey, listen, he grabbed me, scooped me up, pour some water in my mouth, and I'm back out there. Damn. I'm like, oh, I just told you my wrist is broke. I can't even breathe no more.

[Memphis Bleak]

Damn.

[Zab Judah]

And you got to go back out there and fight. So, you know, that's a fight that happened early in my career that people say, you know, that was my bridge. The bridge of Zab going to, you know, from being regular Zab to superstar Zab.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's right.

[Zab Judah]

And then from there, I mean, of course, people going, I mean, then you got the Cory Spinks fight when I went to St. Louis, when he came out with Nelly. I mean, that, that, that, that was epic. You know what I'm saying?

[Memphis Bleak]

That was. I remember that.

[Zab Judah]

You know what I'm saying? The second fight was more intriguing, but people don't understand on the business aspect. I, you know, I lost, but I won. You know what I'm saying? The first fight, I received like 1.5 million. The second fight only received a hundred thousand dollars and told me, like, listen, you know, you be. You being blessed for the opportunity, you know what I'm saying? I was promoted by Don King, you know what I'm saying? So, yeah, he had both of us. So he said, listen, man, you want another shot? I ain't got no money. Yeah, I ain't got no money. But I mean, if you could, if you could, if you could go over there and shake and make something happen, then we could do something.

[Memphis Bleak]

What was it like working with Don because he got a bad rap?

[Zab Judah]

I mean, I made a lot of money, though. Bleak.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's what I'm saying. I always. That's what I know he put a lot of money in a lot of people. But then you hear. You see the movies, you hear the stories. Like, Donald had. Was a crook he was sticking up with.

[Zab Judah]

No, but I think that what he he at, he good at like, like, I don't know, like he good. Like, like, like he'll call you and buy you something. Yo, Blake, what up? Yo, go outside, look outside. You look outside. It's the new road.

[Memphis Bleak]

Boom. You like. Woo, woo.

[Zab Judah]

I can't wait that you went and you. When you get the. You know how it is. When you get the new road, pull up to your house and drop out. You not thinking about who's paying for this? Who got. Where's the title at?

[Memphis Bleak]

Who name is actually not at 1820.

[Zab Judah]

None of that means nothing. You like, we lit where the.

[Memphis Bleak]

Where the nearest club at?

[Zab Judah]

Where's my freshest outfit? Let. Let me go and let me go put your wid Joe at. Yo, we're bliss. Yo, let's go.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's a fact, you know what I'm saying? We gotta turn up.

[Zab Judah]

You ain't think about nothing else, you know what I'm saying? So it's, you know, I mean, at them young ages, but he knew how to do that. And then now you go get a. And then he'll let you fight, fight, fight. And if you good, he let you fight. Run it up now. You go get a big fight. You just won the title undisputed. You know what I'm saying? You made a couple. And he slided a little. That little three. A little 385 in there. No, 385 is. That's a. That. That's a. That's a big chunk when you. You know what I'm saying? When a. Flying that under, you know what I'm saying? A 1.5 little nut, you know, white or 385 for what? Yeah, over that. You know, that, that, that Bentley. You either.

[Memphis Bleak]

What?

[Zab Judah]

What?

[Memphis Bleak]

Yeah, when the bill come later, it's real.

[Zab Judah]

Remember, you don't get this later because you don't drove a car months. You don't want the car, you don't.

[Memphis Bleak]

Want the car no more, you know, oh, now I gotta pay for it.

[Zab Judah]

I'm cool, you know what I'm saying? And the whole time you thinking you got over. Yeah, I got that. That bought me a Bentley. Boy, you know, I'm his number one. That's why he be. He better spend that bread and then you. That's the money you spent. That's money you spent. You know what I'm saying? But he gonna turn around, spend a block, and go get you another bag. So all that old shit that you mad about, you just you lobbing up.

[Memphis Bleak]

Oh, I'm good again.

[Zab Judah]

You back perky champ. I got a big one for you, baby. I got a big one for you.

[Memphis Bleak]

Yeah, big one, I think.

[Zab Judah]

Listen, that's how you come to you. I got a big one for you, baby. That Cory Spence. Can you. Can you. Can you beat that Corey Spitz? Yeah, I could. I got him for you, brother. I got him. But listen, man, ain't nothing in that bucket over there. The bucket. The bucket is empty. But the opportunity, brother. I said the opportunity.

[Memphis Bleak]

Yo, chill, chill.

[Zab Judah]

He ain't hit, nigga. Opportunity.

[Memphis Bleak]

Nigga said the bucket is empty. The bucket empty with the opportunity.

[Zab Judah]

Welcome to the A building. I'm Hans Charles.

[Memphis Bleak]

I'm inalec Lumumba.

[Zab Judah]

It's 1969.

[Memphis Bleak]

Malcolm X and Martin Luther King Jr have both been assassinated, and black America was at a breaking point. Rioting and protest broke out on an.

[Zab Judah]

Unprecedented scale in Atlanta, Georgia. At Martin's alma mater, Morehouse College, the students had their own protest. It featured two prominent figures in black history, Martin Luther King Sr. And a.

[Memphis Bleak]

Young student, Samuel L. Jackson. To be in what we really thought was a revolution. I mean, people were dying.

[Zab Judah]

1968, the murder of Dr. King, which traumatized everyone.

[Memphis Bleak]

The FBI had a role in the murder of a Black Panther leader in Chicago. This story is about protest. It echoes in today's world far more than it should, and it will blow your mind.

[Zab Judah]

Listen to the A Building on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Segregation in the day, integration at night. When segregation was the law, one mysterious black club owner had his own rules.

[Memphis Bleak]

We didn't worry about what went on outside. It was like stepping in another world.

[Zab Judah]

Inside Charlie's Place, black and white people danced together. But not everyone was happy about it.

[Memphis Bleak]

You saw the kkk. Yeah, they were dressed up in their uniform. The KKK set out to raid Charlie, take him away from here. Charlie was an example of power.

[Zab Judah]

They had to crush him. From Atlas Obscura, Rococo Punch, and visit Myrtle beach comes Charlie's Place, a story that was nearly lost to time. Until now. Listen to Charlie's place on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Talking to your kids about the dangers of vaping can be hard. Getting them to listen to hot gossip is easy. So here's some drama you could share with your kid. Dude, did you hear about Cassie and Jake? No. But did you hear that vapey can cause irreversible lung damage?

[Memphis Bleak]

And nicotine. Nicotine affects brain development.

[Zab Judah]

Nuh. You don't need to gossip if you want to have an open conversation about vaping. So if you want to get tips on when and how to talk to your kids, visit talkaboutvaping.org, brought to you by the American Lung association and the Ad Council Crook. And Chase Nashville chats with the coolest cat in country music. He is edgy.

[Memphis Bleak]

He's fun.

[Zab Judah]

He is Chase Matthews.

[Memphis Bleak]

Keith Urban helped make him a global sensation last year, but it's his recent number hit, Darlin, that put Chase on the map and launched a fun and difficult conversation about lovers who cheat and lie. That's why I'm scared to get married. You're giving me trust issues, brother.

[Zab Judah]

Crook. And Chase Nashville chats with Chase. Matthew. Listen and subscribe on the iHeartRadio app.

[Memphis Bleak]

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

[Zab Judah]

And then you start to think as a fighter now. Your man, your ego, your pride. Nigga. Can't beat me. N. Can't beat me. I had him the first time. Yeah, I want to fight. Yeah. You just forgot about the little nugget he put on the table. You're gonna taste that till later.

[Memphis Bleak]

I had a record company. Oh, my Jesus Christ. He would have raped the industry.

[Zab Judah]

But what I say, I don't want to, I, I, I don't want to say all bad things about Donna King because I made a lot of bread.

[Memphis Bleak]

A lot of people on.

[Zab Judah]

I made a lot of bread. I made. He introduced me to some great people. He introduced me to a great lifestyle. You know what I'm saying? He, you know, he, he wasn't, you know, he was a, he was a great guy. Besides, I think that he had old fashioned business mentality. Yeah. I mean, that he came for that year.

[Memphis Bleak]

So you know what I'm saying?

[Zab Judah]

Like, you know what I'm saying? That, that three for me, that one for you, that three for me, one for you, three for me, one for you. And then go, what? I gave you something. Be happy with that. And you like, all right. But every time, if you good, it's the opportunity.

[Memphis Bleak]

Yes.

[Zab Judah]

So the opportunity is bigger than what that little money y' all beefing about. So you.

[Memphis Bleak]

Because it is. Because the opportunity is bigger than that.

[Zab Judah]

You know what I'm saying? For me to fight Corey Spinks and win the undisputed championship of the world, you know what that means? That, that's like back in those days, that was unheard of. People wasn't doing that, you know what I'm saying?

[Memphis Bleak]

All the endorsement deals, everybody just coming at you, throwing that bag at you.

[Zab Judah]

So I'm looking at, I looked at it different. I didn't care about the, all right, the money. Keep that. You got that.

[Memphis Bleak]

Being young and, and receiving all that money like that, because I know, man, I'm a Brooklyn, just like you, bro. 18 years old, 20 years old, buying my first crib, getting my first bands. Yo, why we all go over there? Why we all with the tea next? Everybody used to meet up at the 7:11 over there. That's crazy. My.

[Zab Judah]

Yo, yo, that's crazy.

[Memphis Bleak]

What was it like? Like, how did you maintain? Like. Cause you're not One of those guys who blew it all because you could say, like, I got a nugget here from dawn. But you still learned how to make that nugget last, right? You know what I'm saying? Like, how was that for you being young? That young? Because that's not easy, bro. A lot of done blue day bags.

[Zab Judah]

I thank God for my father, you know, having him right there. You know, him coming from Brooklyn, born and raised, and, you know, knowing how to shake and bake from the 70s and six, you know what I'm saying? So he was able to go, hey, yo, listen, what's our next move? What we can. Like, he always was one of those that either gave me the idea or sparked the up. Like, yo, yo, yo, you ever thought about this? And I'm. I never thought about that. You know, like, yo, yo, about you, man. Fuck all that, man. Why we going through what we going through? Let's go start our own. Yeah, how we. How we do that? I was one. You know, I was a fighter. I was. I was a fighter in the gym, doing this, doing that. All I know is that I would look to my father and go, oh, I like that. I want that. And it's there.

[Memphis Bleak]

Yeah, that's right.

[Zab Judah]

My father gonna make sure I got it. He gonna make sure it's there. He gonna make sure I got it. You know what I'm saying? And it's done. And. And by him kept seeing my potential as. As it. You know, as. As it went with the pros. He started going, okay, yeah, this is this. This is him. And he dedicated more time and time and time and time and would rip me everywhere. Him and my Uncle Jimmy. You know what I'm saying? Rest in peace with Uncle Jimmy. And, yo, that was my right hand.

[Memphis Bleak]

I ain't gonna front. This gonna be mad, me saying this. He gonna want to see me and be like, bleak. Come on. I gotta come up on rock solid now, but I ain't gonna front. You the only nigga who put that pain on Floyd, my G. And, you know, the whole hood, everybody know that. They tried to say it wasn't a knock. That was a knockdown.

[Zab Judah]

Big knockdown.

[Memphis Bleak]

That was a knockdown.

[Zab Judah]

So, listen, we just wait.

[Memphis Bleak]

I gotta give you a five for that because Floyd put that pain in.

[Zab Judah]

So to be wonder.

[Memphis Bleak]

You and Sugar Shane is the only ones I seen that really rattled that tank. It was like my. I was. Oh, yeah, you that, man.

[Zab Judah]

The.

[Memphis Bleak]

Yo.

[Zab Judah]

I appreciate you. How was that fight?

[Memphis Bleak]

Fight. Cause y' all homies.

[Zab Judah]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Memphis Bleak]

Like Y' all was peoples before the fight. I remember you even saying that.

[Zab Judah]

We was tired. I. He's the kind of Brooklyn. Yeah, Brooklyn, New York, all that. You know what I'm saying? I went with hang. I came to Vegas and hang out with him. It was vice versa, you know, I think in that fight, in my eyes, what I seen from my sight was money. Yeah, that's what. That's what got us. Because, you know what I'm saying? Because Mike Tyson told us this. I remember, you know, fast forward. We was real tight. We were sitting at Mike house, and Mike said. Mike looked at us. He was in the car. I said, y' all gonna. Y' all gonna fight. We like, man, that's my brother. Now. Let his nigga. He said, you know what? I gonna fight. It's the money, brother. The money? Yeah, the money, brother. You're not gonna be to deny it. No, no, ain't no money in the world, brother. They're gonna give you so much money, brother, you gonna look at that like he the devil sitting there. I swear. Yeah, it's a true story. And he never lied, yo, he said, they're gonna give you so much money, they gonna look at him like he the devil. Your brother, he didn't come out. Your mother.

[Memphis Bleak]

Yeah, that.

[Zab Judah]

Oh, you know how champ talks.

[Memphis Bleak]

Yeah, Mike don't give a.

[Zab Judah]

And I'm like, yo, we. We sitting there and.

[Memphis Bleak]

No, he.

[Zab Judah]

We both sitting there and he telling us this shit.

[Memphis Bleak]

You ain't come out. Your mother, pussy, your brother.

[Zab Judah]

He said, but it's not a. It's not a bad thing. That's what you're supposed to do. If you my brother, you say you my brother, then let's fight. We choose this. Nobody signed us up for this.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's right.

[Zab Judah]

We choose to fight.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's right.

[Zab Judah]

We choose to be warriors. So how do you accommodate me and our sport that we in as gladiators? We fight. Ain't that shit crazy? It's wicked, ain't it? Yo, yo, it's crazy. But ain't it crazy?

[Memphis Bleak]

But if you think about it, it's the same mentality as short in the hood. Because think we laugh and joke with our. With our homies. You fight each other and then be right back eating the sandwich. Oh, let's split a hit. Let's split a hoagie a hero together. So it was the same thing. And we did it for no money. For no money that have a rock fight. Hit the homie, too. Now y' all gotta fight five minutes, and y' all back. Having a rock fight again, like, was real. So I could see that mentality, especially Mike being from the same place. Brownsville.

[Zab Judah]

Brownsville.

[Memphis Bleak]

Y' all had to fight. That is like, yo, y' all fought in y'.

[Zab Judah]

All. I ain't gonna lie to y'.

[Memphis Bleak]

All.

[Zab Judah]

I ain't gonna lie, Blake. I fought my whole block, my whole neighborhood. They know that I see this. They know I fought everybody. And it's love. I see niggas, they would tell me stories. I'd be like, I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

[Memphis Bleak]

Yo, my. Let me tell you. I used to be sick because you know what I mean? I grew up without a father, my G. And, you know, in summer, my. My grandmom's is from Brownsville. I had a grandmother lived in Tilden, and my aunts and them lived in Rockaway Projects. And then I had family in Marcus Garvey. All right there. So my summers, I spent in Brownsville. You know what I'm saying? So when I used to go back to school and be like, yo, we was at for the summer, teacher start asking, like, yeah, I was in Virginia. I was in South Carolina. They get the meat. I was in Brownsville. Teachers could be looking at me like, I'm glad you still with us. I'm glad. Cause it was like, I'm going from the star to the ville. It was like, wait a minute. Then I used to go out there and see how much fighting y' all did. Because back in the style. Like what you said. Bang, bang, bang in the ville. Like what you said. Knuckle up, knuckle.

[Zab Judah]

But think about it, blick. We didn't come from the video game era.

[Memphis Bleak]

Yeah.

[Zab Judah]

You know what I'm saying? We was even before Atari.

[Memphis Bleak]

Remember that?

[Zab Judah]

We was before Atari. We watched Atari be birthing our hands.

[Memphis Bleak]

Put Atari on for your son. He gonna be like, pops, your childhood was what?

[Zab Judah]

Yo n be like, my son. What the fuck is this? Just one little joy sticking that button. Remember that?

[Memphis Bleak]

Yo, that was terrible. But it was everything, right?

[Zab Judah]

So before that, what we had to do. Go outside.

[Memphis Bleak]

Dang. We used to build go karts.

[Zab Judah]

You had to go outside and make happen.

[Memphis Bleak]

You had to do like.

[Zab Judah]

Skelly had to go outside.

[Memphis Bleak]

Yo, I think that's only a Brooklyn game. You know, out of town. Don't know about Skelly. You go to certain. Certain cities and be like, yo, y' all play Skelly? Like, what's that? I think that was only a Brooklyn game. Skelly. By G. O God, my.

[Zab Judah]

That's crazy. That Skelly. You put that wax in that. You put that clay in there. That top. Like you spent all night doing your clay. I remember we used to be up doing the clay, dumping it back out.

[Memphis Bleak]

It ain't look right. Yeah, you gotta have a style. Cause your time had to be the flyest fire.

[Zab Judah]

You had to have the fire Top.

[Memphis Bleak]

Did y' all play Skelly like rufies you like a nigga.

[Zab Judah]

Lose.

[Memphis Bleak]

You get the Rufus Top.

[Zab Judah]

Rufus Top. It's outta here.

[Memphis Bleak]

Get that shit up outta here.

[Zab Judah]

My nigga.

[Memphis Bleak]

That shit up.

[Zab Judah]

That shit's gonna up the shit or throw it in the sewer.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's over. Throw your shit right in the sewer. You got me.

[Zab Judah]

Get out of here.

[Memphis Bleak]

Let's play for the. The top there. Yo, that's crazy.

[Zab Judah]

And we had to play dodgeball and Suicide. Suicide, Suicide. Put the box in there. Turn around, hold the wall. Steam.

[Memphis Bleak]

Look at that. Yo, Steam that Y. Yo, Suicides. Oh, man, those was days. My. But, yo, in this business, I watched you, right?

[Zab Judah]

You.

[Memphis Bleak]

You dealt with losses, setbacks, you know what I mean? Controversy through all of that. How did you maintain your mental, you know, like these kids say, never crash out, bro. Like, you know what I'm saying? You ain't never did nothing. Wow. Where you in the media and we like, damn, look at Zab. You know what I'm saying?

[Zab Judah]

I think it's because of my amateur career that I won so much and was in such a prestigious place for so long that, you know, by the time that I even got my loss, you know, my first loss was Kazuzu. But by the time I even got there, I was just numb to the fact that, yo, I'm great. So even when the loss came, I still say, that's not a loss, that's a lesson.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's right.

[Zab Judah]

Why? Because I know what not to do. Next time, I'm gonna get another sucker up. Watch. And then next time I come back seven more body. That's not. Then you catch another learning lesson. You know what I'm saying? You're like, all right, okay, okay.

[Memphis Bleak]

But.

[Zab Judah]

But I'm. I'm even in my learning lessons, I'm bodying it.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's right.

[Zab Judah]

Go look at my losses, y'.

[Memphis Bleak]

All.

[Zab Judah]

I'm bodying. And you like, wait, it's going like this the whole fight. You like, you know, go watch the coat over you like, wow, that was. That was amazing. That's right. You know what I'm saying?

[Memphis Bleak]

So you never duck no smoke, man. Like, we can't beat everybody but we definitely ain't gonna run from nobody.

[Zab Judah]

Nobody never ran, never will. Brown.

[Memphis Bleak]

Brown Hill, nigga. You know what I mean? And that right there hold more weight than anything. Because like I say, I lost many fights in the street. But I bet you the niggas I lost to don't want to fight again.

[Zab Judah]

They don't want to fight again.

[Memphis Bleak]

You know what I'm saying? Because it wasn't an easy w. Easy win.

[Zab Judah]

And mine was different. You beat me, you gotta fight the Judah brothers, punk. It's more of us, man. That's right.

[Memphis Bleak]

You got the whole. With a knuckle.

[Zab Judah]

That's right. It's ten of us. It's ten of us. Beat all of us.

[Memphis Bleak]

It wasn't a lot of guns. It wasn't. Remember, it was one gun to, like, 10. So having four brothers that could fight and two bullets. And two bullets, that was like having 10 guns. Having four brothers that could fight up, yo, that's a fact, yo.

[Zab Judah]

Here you go. Real story, right? So it was so, like, we was, you know, in the Daily News, Golden Gloves, in the. In the News all the time, that they would not allow us to go to the same high school school. I went to Wingate. My other brother went to Midwood. My oldest brother went to Grady. Like, they said, no, y' all can't just go to one school. He said. And we said, why? I said, because if one of y' all get into a altercation, we know all y' all are coming out, and we can't. We don't have no. No professional security enough to break that.

[Memphis Bleak]

Up to hold that.

[Zab Judah]

So, no, y' all can't all go to school, yo.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's crazy. We was even talking out there when you was talking about the Change Clothes video shoot.

[Zab Judah]

Yeah, with me and.

[Memphis Bleak]

Dang, man.

[Zab Judah]

Oh, yeah.

[Memphis Bleak]

You know, yo, me and Dame on good terms, man. We had a call with Nori, right, where we made a pat, where he was like, yo, we gonna make a truce. Nobody get on these platforms and disrespect each other, right? And then he went on and dissed me again, like, that's my nigga. But you just brought up a memory. You like, yo, bleak, I'm in that Change clothes.

[Zab Judah]

And look, I didn't even know that, you know what I mean?

[Memphis Bleak]

You like, yo, at Change Clothes Video shoot, you and Dane was going at it, My nigga, yo, but I'm gonna give you the context behind that. That right? We was in the room. He was telling state property and all them that they gonna retire like, Hov, like. Cause remember he was doing the Fade, the Black album.

[Zab Judah]

The Fade.

[Memphis Bleak]

The Black concert was coming up, and we was doing the Change the Clothes. So he back there telling everybody they gonna retire like hov. And you know me, the. The reality guy of the crew. We ain't retiring like hov. None of us. We fucked up. If he quit, we better go get some jobs. So Dane was mad that I was talking like that and was. And he said, yo, you act like you ain't with us. If you ain't with us, I drop you from Rockefeller. Yo, I ain't gonna front Z. That sent me off the roof. That's why I was that hot. Like, you going, what?

[Zab Judah]

What?

[Memphis Bleak]

Ain't no way. So that's why I was like, nah, you gotta come outside. We gotta fight. Dang.

[Zab Judah]

Hold on, hold on. Can I tell you what I seen? Hey, What I seen? I was there. Guys, look at the video. Change clothes. I was there. What? I'm bleak. Don't. I don't give. I don't. Yo. And he had. Wait, who was that holding you? It was your man, Murder. Murder. Murder was holding you. I don't give a. These niggas don't know. I gotta show these niggas. I'm tired of playing with these niggas. I gotta show.

[Memphis Bleak]

Show these.

[Zab Judah]

So. So me Joe sit back like, wait, wait, who are you talking to? I said, yo, I think the said, dang. He said, yeah, I don't give a. I'm gonna show these. I'm not playing. Don't play with my man name. I mean, not like that. Pause. It was like. Like. It was like you talking about holding that hole. Like, I don't give a. Don't play with our names.

[Memphis Bleak]

He said he gonna drop me, right? You ain't signed me, right. But it's my company. And I'm like, what?

[Zab Judah]

What?

[Memphis Bleak]

Yeah, that.

[Zab Judah]

Yeah, I was. I was right there. I was right there. Yeah, that was crazy.

[Memphis Bleak]

Gave me the major threat. That's a. That's a threat. You don't threaten the artist.

[Zab Judah]

Yeah.

[Memphis Bleak]

Drop you. Yeah. What up on. Yeah. Damn, you crazy. We gotta fight now.

[Zab Judah]

Yeah.

[Memphis Bleak]

Remember? Damn the og. So I. I'm even mad that it's even a public.

[Zab Judah]

Too Public beef. Yeah.

[Memphis Bleak]

Yes.

[Zab Judah]

You ain't supposed to argue with yo like that, bro.

[Memphis Bleak]

Come on, bro. You know what I'm saying? Like, that's why. Yeah. And I never. Me and Dame never had a face to face. I don't think since that day.

[Zab Judah]

Crazy.

[Memphis Bleak]

I spoke to him on the phone, but I Never seen Dame again, bro. Yeah, it's crazy to me.

[Zab Judah]

Like he got. He got different energy. He got, you know. Plus the be boxing too, you know, he be training.

[Memphis Bleak]

Yo, listen, don't work with him. Dame ain't no sucker. Ladies and gentlemen, you gotta approach Dame with that pistol.

[Zab Judah]

Caution. Yeah, yeah, he. He going. He, he gonna give it to you. Dame Dash. He gonna give it to you, right?

[Memphis Bleak]

He know how to fight.

[Zab Judah]

He ain't no punk.

[Memphis Bleak]

Straight up.

[Zab Judah]

I've been in the gym with him. Chelsea Pearce, this. I've been in there for this.

[Memphis Bleak]

Way back. Yo, I seen Dave fight Keith Murray, my. In New Orleans, bro.

[Zab Judah]

Outside, no gloves. Keith Murray brawling at the airport.

[Memphis Bleak]

My wilding so like no dame know how to fight. I ain't going all how that went though.

[Zab Judah]

Bleak. Don't just, don't just said how that went. Who got up?

[Memphis Bleak]

Nobody got up, but they did hit Damon there with a bottle. That's when he got hit there with the bottle. We got the stitches, you know what I mean?

[Zab Judah]

Long island different.

[Memphis Bleak]

Had some brawls, man.

[Zab Judah]

Dame Keith Murray, the Long island, them different.

[Memphis Bleak]

Yeah, them was wild. We had major brawls, man, as back then, man, but it ain't about us. We here with you. They got a legend, Zab, you know what I mean? Yo, so when did you realize your career was bigger than the boxing ring?

[Zab Judah]

All right, still never.

[Memphis Bleak]

He said never. Never.

[Zab Judah]

I never never, man. I always. You know what? It come a time when they say it's a stigma that says you only as good as your last fight, you know what I'm saying? So you're only as good at the last thing that you did in the ring, you know what I'm saying? So when it come to a standpoint, when maybe a couple years go by and you didn't do anything, what is your worth now?

[Memphis Bleak]

What is your.

[Zab Judah]

What is your net worth? So it's not even a game about nobody telling you this. This is your min. Mental. These are the games that boxers play, the mental games with themselves, you know what I'm saying? Like, damn, I ain't been in the ring in a while. Am I still that good?

[Memphis Bleak]

Yeah.

[Zab Judah]

You know what I'm saying? Yeah. I mean, but, but, but, but they. We question ourselves. Am I doing. Do I still got it? Yeah, I went to the gym today. My wasn't. Wasn't cracking like how I was cracking with that Mayweather fight. I ain't got that, you know what I'm saying? So you start playing psychological game with yourself and then that's when the seesaw come in me ain't gonna lie Bleak in Brooklyn. I was one of those that. That didn't play with me. I ain't play with it. As soon as I find that punk going on, I go to the gym and train. Or I go running.

[Memphis Bleak]

Yeah.

[Zab Judah]

I go do. I go outside. We do. We do some wild. And I'm like. It go right out my brain. Yeah, yeah. You know, I mean, so that's what. When people see me back in them days, turned up to the max. That's probably. I was trying to get that. That sucker off my chest. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? So I would prove that shit to myself. Yeah. You know, I mean, bounces and nightclubs. These big seven foot that I had fights with. You know what I'm saying? New York City, like, a lot.

[Memphis Bleak]

Like, you know, like, I'm going now. I'm gonna tell him why I'm knocking somebody out.

[Zab Judah]

Yeah. Like, it's crazy. The tunnel. Forget about it. Oh, my.

[Memphis Bleak]

Jesus Christ, man.

[Zab Judah]

Listen, I got cool my man after I forgot. My man, the head guy named the black dude, I forgot. Anyway, we got cool after.

[Memphis Bleak]

It was crazy.

[Zab Judah]

You know what the. All them was police. It was all police. Undercover. Yeah, it was all police. The undercover police. Glenn, my man Glenn. You know, all them hip hop. But Glenn, I tell you, I was fighting this. I was fighting his workers. He's like. I was like. He called me that. What is. What's wrong with you? That big told me he gonna pick me up and throw me out the door in my head. No, we ain't having that.

[Memphis Bleak]

They used to wow up in the tunnel. Security would violate, man. Violate. How you all bloodied. The up in the tunnel is crazy. Yo.

[Zab Judah]

Welcome to the A building. I'm Hans Charles Armenalek Lumumba. It's 1969.

[Memphis Bleak]

Malcolm X and Martin Luther King Jr have both been assassinated. And black America was at a breaking point. Rioting and protest broke out on an.

[Zab Judah]

Unprecedented scale in Atlanta, Georgia. At Martin's alma mater, Morehouse College, the students had their own protest.

[Memphis Bleak]

It featured two prominent prominent figures in black history.

[Zab Judah]

Martin Luther King Sr. And a young.

[Memphis Bleak]

Student, Samuel L. Jackson. To be in what we really thought was a revolution. I mean, people were dying.

[Zab Judah]

1968, the murder of Dr. King, which traumatized everyone.

[Memphis Bleak]

The FBI had a role in the murder of a Black Panther leader in Chicago. This story is about protest. It echoes in today's world far more than it should. And it will blow your mind.

[Zab Judah]

Listen to the A building on the Iheartradio App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Segregation in the day, integration at night. When segregation was the law, one mysterious black club owner had his own rules.

[Memphis Bleak]

We didn't worry about what went on outside. It was like sipping on another the world.

[Zab Judah]

Inside Charlie's Place, black and white people danced together. But not everyone was happy about it.

[Memphis Bleak]

You saw the kkk. Yeah, they was dressed up in their uniform. The KKK set out to raid Charlie, take him away from here. Charlie was an example of power.

[Zab Judah]

They had to crush him. From Atlas Obscura, Rococo Punch and visit Myrtle beach comes Charlie's Place, a story that was nearly lost to time. Until now. Listen to Charlie's place on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Fourteen years in prison for killing a young woman. A 15 year sentence for a crash that caused three deaths. Twelve and a half years for killing a child and critically injuring her mother. All true stories, all caused by marijuana. Impaired drivers. No matter what you tell yourself, if you feel different, you drive different. So if you're high, just don't drive. Brought to you by NHTSA and the Ad Council. Crook and Chase Nashville chats with the coolest cat in country music. He is edgy, he's fun, he is Chase Matthews.

[Memphis Bleak]

Keith Urban helped make him a global sensation last year, but it's his recent number one hit, Darling, that put Chase on the map and launched a fun and difficult conversation about lovers who cheat and lie. That's why I'm scared to get married. You're giving me trust issues, brother.

[Zab Judah]

Crook and Chase Nashville chats with Chase Matthew. Listen and subscribe on the iHeartRadio app.

[Memphis Bleak]

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. That's what I'm saying. As a boxer, like, you know, a lot of boxers now, they try to affiliate with hip hop and, you know, have artists come out, walk them out. I say, like, you was the first one to transition that one because you're not only Rockefeller, you even had the links with Dipset. Like you said, Foxy Kim. Like a lot of artists, you turn on any music video back in the early, the late 90s, early 2000s, ZAB was in them. Like, how did your hip hop affiliation did these artists used to reach out to you? Or you just was like, I'm outside, I'm just pulling up.

[Zab Judah]

Bleak. I was in the tunnel when Jay Z and Master P came out with, huh, you remember that night? Do you remember that night when he did, huh? It was retarded. You Know what I'm saying?

[Memphis Bleak]

See, I'm going deep.

[Zab Judah]

I'm going deep with it. You know what I'm saying?

[Memphis Bleak]

I never understood. I never knew how you got with the dipset crew, like, how that relationship started, too.

[Zab Judah]

Just going to Harlem, girls chasing girls. Being from Brownsville with stupid heart. I got my brothers and they're like, you know. Jojo stuttered. Ah, yeah. Call the phone. They fall. They're. Harlem.

[Memphis Bleak]

Harlem. What?

[Zab Judah]

Let's go. We out.

[Memphis Bleak]

We in the car. Why you gonna throw one man under the. Shout out Joe, man.

[Zab Judah]

Shout out Joe.

[Memphis Bleak]

You know, word up.

[Zab Judah]

You know, Joe can be great.

[Memphis Bleak]

Ah.

[Zab Judah]

Hey, yo, five of them. Five of them. All right, yo, I'm coming. I'm coming. I want to wait. We in Harlem now. We were. We were Vaughn, we were Von Zip. We were. So we chilling. Cam and all them coming through. You know, they. They looking. But no, me and Cam had a relationship because we lived in Teaneck from the playing basketball court. Here we go back, you know what I'm saying?

[Memphis Bleak]

All the rappers. That was Rapper Rose.

[Zab Judah]

That was it. You know, that was Rapper Rose, Rapper Roll Crazy. And then we got cool for him, seeing me in Harlem and bugging out and me with my. With my crew. And it was cool. They were regular cool Harlem niggas. And we used to come outside, kick on the bucket. I didn't drink a smoke back then, but I would always come outside and kick it with him. Crack jokes, bug out for like an hour or two and then blow out. You know me, I was looking for other things, you know what I'm saying? I had a rabbit trap on the ground, you know what I'm saying?

[Memphis Bleak]

One thing I respect of you, too. Like, after life, after boxing, you still involved. Cause Devin Haney, you know what I mean? I used to say all the time, that's my family. I've seen him as a baby grow up. So I know you had some input on that. His pops is mad cool.

[Zab Judah]

You know.

[Memphis Bleak]

My dog Fred C. Love him.

[Zab Judah]

Yeah.

[Memphis Bleak]

He tell me Devin gonna beat the world up.

[Zab Judah]

Beat the world. You know what I'm saying, man, I appreciate where Devin is at today because you know how it is bleak. It's like you with hov. And I'm saying, I'm pretty sure Hope is proud of you. I mean, like, it's the other way around. He probably, like, looked you like, what's my. We came from. From.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's right.

[Zab Judah]

And now look, you know what I'm saying? So that's how I feel with. I seen Devin coming To gym, first day, number one, you know what I'm saying? He walked out with me holding my belts, and now he's the undisputed. Multiple times doing this, you know what I'm saying? Breaking records, youngest crazy champion. His name is mentioned in every boxing conversation that people could talk about. You know what I'm saying? So when you are part of something like that, you gotta.

[Memphis Bleak]

You.

[Zab Judah]

You gotta feel proud. Like what. What that right there, Day one. And Bill, one thing I love about Bill and I tell everybody, to me, he was the. He's a very brilliant guy. Why he don't come from boxing, he come from the streets. But he said, you know what?

[Memphis Bleak]

I hear about him all the time. Anytime I knew anybody from the west, they mentioned, yeah, nah, his pop's a real one.

[Zab Judah]

That's a real one. I'm telling you straight. Like, he come from the streets. So he said, you know what? Devin want a box. Devin want a box. We. We met. Yo, Devin want to box. Yo, bring him. Bring him to the gym. He brought us. He bung. He bunged. After the gym, we started working out a little bit like that. He said, you know what I gotta put into my boy? He opened the gym, or he opened the gym up, you know what I'm saying? It was our gym. We had our own gym. This is in. I'm talking about. This is so like maybe 07, right? 07. 07 out here, you know what I'm saying? We doing this. The gym. The gym is over. Devin is a kid. Devin is little Jim is open, is rocking. But one thing I loved about him, he poured into his kid. He said, if I'm gonna sit back and put my son in something, I'm gonna get the best, the best of the best. He opened the gym. He went and got. My father was training him first. Then he went to Big Floyd, Then he went to Freddie Roach. Why he was going to the professional greatest people that they said is the biggest in the game and teach my son something. But the whole time what he was doing, he was sitting there learning game the same time. So why later on when I take this walk with my son by ourself, nobody could say that I'm not qualified for the position. You know, every endeavor that he's ever learned, I sat in on, you know what I'm saying? It was a double student. Yeah, he was learning physical, I was learning visual, you know what I'm saying? So that right there when you watch. Like I could say I watched that. I seen that. You know what I'M saying, yeah, that's dope. People say, oh, how you q. Bill Haney. Bill Haney, man, Bill Haney is one of the smartest people in boxing, you know what I'm saying?

[Memphis Bleak]

I remember he went through some to get in Australia. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Zab Judah]

And he fought hard and look, he made it. Bing, bing, ba ba. Last minute, 30 seconds, here we go. And we botched it up still and we out of there, you know what I'm saying? So when you got that kind of blueprint and format, man, listen, you're rolling, you know, the most I was with you, you know what I'm saying?

[Memphis Bleak]

That's right, man.

[Zab Judah]

That's 100.

[Memphis Bleak]

Do you feel like when it comes down to the boxing world, do you feel like they give you enough credit to the culture for what you contributed?

[Zab Judah]

I mean, far as what the boxing community gives me, you know what?

[Memphis Bleak]

Bleak.

[Zab Judah]

To be honest with you, that really doesn't worry me. You know why? When I come outside in these streets and I talk to the people that's on the ground, the real people, they tell me different.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's right.

[Zab Judah]

So that's what keeps me going, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. I don't meet people like, oh, yeah, no. They say, what? What? You did it, you did it. Congratulations. I just want to hug you. Like, that right there is special to me, you know what I'm saying? Because when I was getting in that ring, doing what I was doing, I didn't know all these people was watching me having Zab Judah fight night parties. And you know what I'm saying? Like, I meet people now and they'd be like, yo, my pops was the biggest Zab Judah fan ever. We would shut the house down. He would kick anybody out, and I'm like, wow, all for me. You know what I'm saying? Like, that's special to me. So whenever I meet anybody, you know, everybody I ever met could tell you, yeah, he's not. He's genuine. Nobody. He gonna stop and chop it up with you. Yeah. You know what I'm saying?

[Memphis Bleak]

What's your take on the fight scene today? Like, the boxes today, do you feel like they, like you not ducking smoke or they just trying to make it a business? Because when I look at it, I feel like these guys building a brand, they not even trying to really fight anymore.

[Zab Judah]

Right. Feel like to a certain extent, that's the blueprint now to make it to the top.

[Memphis Bleak]

Stop.

[Zab Judah]

You gotta watch that O and get it for far as you could get it up the Ladder before the negotiation starts with the other big dogs. So that's the whole blueprint. Because, you know, going up the ladder, if you take a fight that's too hard or like, that may be challenging and just cough a bit, you get that? L. Now they look at you in a different. Now you got to go over there. You want you in that lane, set you at you at the kitty table there. Go over there. You want to open us again, you know what I'm saying? You, like, how did this happen? You know what I'm saying? How did this happen right here? You know what I mean?

[Memphis Bleak]

So. So when it. Now, you, you know, this is life outside the ropes now. What does your legacy. I asked you, what does you think? Like, you know, do the culture, what does your legacy mean to you?

[Zab Judah]

The life after boxing, you know, when I sit back and I watch accolades in. In the videos and all of the fights, I sit back and I watch because, yeah, it's been nice when I, you know, my wife would tell you I. I sit by myself and I sit and watch my fights and old stuff and just hear. I'm gonna listen to commentators and stuff like that. And, yeah, I look back and I'm like, wow. Sometimes I'd be amazed. Like, wow, I really was doing that. Like, I really was like that. Like, that's. That's crazy. You know? I mean, so I, you know, I see what I see. I see what everybody's seeing, but I don't know, it just don't. It don't resonate, like, you know, because.

[Memphis Bleak]

You live in it, right?

[Zab Judah]

So I don't.

[Memphis Bleak]

Same thing, bro.

[Zab Judah]

And I think that I'm still working hard and obtaining other goals and. And pushing forward with other things that I feel like if you sit in that place and you just get comfortable, that's gonna go to your brain. So I. I can't even look at what I did with boxing. Yeah, I can't look at it no more.

[Memphis Bleak]

Like, that's over with. Yeah, that's lazy.

[Zab Judah]

No, I'm saying that's over with. What I. What I. You know, people ask me all the time, champ, when you gonna fight? I did 57. It's on YouTube. Go check it out.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's right.

[Zab Judah]

That's right. You know what I'm saying? Netflix and Chill, you know what I'm saying? Right. You know what I mean? I got 57 of them. You know what I'm saying? That's not it for me, unless I would choose to come out and do one of these exhibitions or something. Like that. But other than that, I got 57 of them.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's right.

[Zab Judah]

That's it.

[Memphis Bleak]

Yeah. Them exhibitions, they throwing that bag around.

[Zab Judah]

I mean, listen, man.

[Memphis Bleak]

Come on. You know what it is? Listen, what's my man name from Dubai? Hey, the Hulk Hogan. Yeah. Throw that bag out. We got some exhibitions over here. Yeah, that's a fact. Yo, yo, so.

[Zab Judah]

But you know how it is. The Brooklyn boys, we always get last. You know that. You know that. They're gonna.

[Memphis Bleak]

They think we're gonna it up. Yeah, I think we gonna the player. We ain't gonna the player.

[Zab Judah]

They're gonna know we're gonna maximize day. We're gonna maximize the position.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's a fact. No sleep on account. That's right.

[Zab Judah]

Never.

[Memphis Bleak]

When people say Zab Judah, what do you want your name to mean? Like, say that? Because to me, when I hear the name Zab Judah, to me now, this is. As a fan, as a bro, just knowing you, watching your career. Legend. Legend, bro. Like, it's only when. When you think of Brooklyn and you think of fighting, it's Mike Tyson and his Ab Judah, and that's it. So what does that mean to you?

[Zab Judah]

Exactly what you just said?

[Memphis Bleak]

That's right.

[Zab Judah]

Because coming from you, that's exactly what it means. Yeah. I want the people to say what they feel is Abjuda.

[Memphis Bleak]

Yo, bro, listen, when I told everybody. Listen, I told you I was just on the phone with Hov when you just called me, like, bleak. What's the address?

[Zab Judah]

He.

[Memphis Bleak]

I was telling him about somebody from the hood that I didn't know was locked up. And I'm like, who the knew this was locked up? He like, I did. So I'm like, yo, he like, where you at? I'm like, I'm in Vegas. I'm about to go shoot this episode with Zab. He like, no way. I'm like, yeah. He like, man, tell Zab I said, what's up? That's when I. When I called you back. I'm like, yo, it's certain you could tell.

[Zab Judah]

Hold on.

[Memphis Bleak]

Certain you can't tell.

[Zab Judah]

Hold on.

[Memphis Bleak]

No different disrespect. But I can't tell the big homie. Hold on. I click back over. It's gonna be air.

[Zab Judah]

Right, right, right. I already know, man. Appreciate you.

[Memphis Bleak]

Nah, man. He definitely said, send my love to my family. I said, what's up, man? He was excited. So even Nori, when I told everybody, they like, no way, man. How the we get in contact with Zach? I had to tell him that, man. That's My bro. What you mean? I never lost contact with Zach, you know?

[Zab Judah]

You know, this is crazy. I'm. I'm probably gonna go crazy, but you know me, Nori used to fight as a kid, right?

[Memphis Bleak]

You lying.

[Zab Judah]

So it was like Nori fought everybody. Listen. No, no, no, no. Listen. It was Noriega in Left Rack City versus the Judo Brothers. I'm gonna leave it at that. I'm gonna leave it at that.

[Memphis Bleak]

Chill, Nori. You ain't get beat up, did you, Nori?

[Zab Judah]

Shout to the.

[Memphis Bleak]

Shout. Shout out to the slime.

[Zab Judah]

Shout out to my brother.

[Memphis Bleak]

Yo, so what's next for you?

[Zab Judah]

My special piece of Judah, too, too. Word.

[Memphis Bleak]

Yo, rest in peace, bro. Definitely. What's next for my dude Zab. I know you. Yo, wait, wait. I'll let you tell what's next, but you told me a part of what's next, right? We out here in Vegas, just so happens is the AVN Awards. Whoa.

[Zab Judah]

Yeah.

[Memphis Bleak]

My man Zach said, yeah, I'm out here for that. I said, what you doing? He said, oh, I got that line. Yeah, so I'll let you tell them.

[Zab Judah]

So. Yeah, it's a company that my wife, you know, she actually. She put it together, you know, Undisputed Toys. We have a Toy lines. Undisputed Toy Lines. So we have different, you know.

[Memphis Bleak]

All exotic stuff.

[Zab Judah]

You know, we have a special rabbit that's very discreet. Very discreet. It's a rabbit with three different functions on it.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's not a business.

[Zab Judah]

Yeah. You know. No, I'm just saying, like, you know, the bunny ears does the magic. You know what I'm saying?

[Memphis Bleak]

We only got one feature.

[Zab Judah]

You make yourself with three. No, eight. No eight different functions.

[Memphis Bleak]

Oh, man.

[Zab Judah]

Yeah. Yeah. Damn. Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of crazy. Yeah.

[Memphis Bleak]

Then you got the cigar bar popping out there. What's up? Talking about that, man.

[Zab Judah]

Sticks. We in Woodland Hills. Sticks Cigar Bar. You know, I'm saying, we on Ventura, you know, look us up, pop in. You know, it's a private cigar bar. So, you know, call us up and come in and let's make it big.

[Memphis Bleak]

Let's go, man. Anything else you want to let the people know before we.

[Zab Judah]

Just let the people know, man. I love everybody, man.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's right.

[Zab Judah]

Thank you for loving me. And you know what I'm saying. And even if I don't know you, I love you. That's what I'm saying. Even if you didn't like me, I love you.

[Memphis Bleak]

That's right. That's a fact, bro. I appreciate you for pulling up, you know, you my brother. And you know I love you for life, my for life, bro. I'm always on deck, boys. You know what it is, man? This is Brooklyn. This is rock solid. This the most solid nigga that's probably gonna touch this platform unless the big homie pull up. Stop playing with us. Yeah.

[Zab Judah]

Wait, I tell you too, right? You know that's Jay Z, right? You know I'm ZJ backwards, right? Zap Judah. That's right. I'm just saying.

[Memphis Bleak]

You know what it is, y'. All. Rock solid Judah in the building. Shout out to Judah brothers, the family, Brooklyn. Everybody holding it down this Doucet Mafia for life. Rock solid. Stay solid it. Yeah. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows at. And you can follow me on any social media platform under the name Memphis Bleak. You see anybody frauding, flag them.

[Zab Judah]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.