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Rocket Chiropractic Podcast for Chiropractors
Instagram Strategies for Chiropractors with Shakur Smith
00:56:11
In this episode of the Rocket Chiro Podcast, Jerry Kennedy sits down with Instagram expert Shaq Smith to discuss how chiropractors can effectively use Instagram to grow their practices. The conversation covers everything from the basics of building a...
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- [00:00]
A
All right, Shaq. Hey, man, thanks for hanging out with me. I appreciate it.
- [00:03]
B
Yeah, for sure, man. I appreciate you for having me on, dude.
- [00:06]
A
This is going to be fun. I don't even care. Like, I don't even care about the rest of this. I've already had so much fun before we started recording that all of the rest of this is just icing on the cake.
- [00:16]
B
Yeah, I agree. I agree.
- [00:18]
A
So I do want to tell you something that has nothing to do with Instagram or chiropractors or anything else, and that is when I was a kid, I was very insecure about the name Jerry. I felt like it was kind of dorky and not cool, and I have not felt that way in a long time until I talked to a guy named Shaq. And now you. You open.
- [00:40]
B
You.
- [00:40]
A
You picked a scab, and I immediately feel very uncool about my. My name, and I haven't felt that way in a long time. So thank you for that, dude.
- [00:52]
B
Okay, let me. Let me clear. Let me clear this up for you, okay? My actual name, I'm gonna just throw this out there, is Shakur. Like, Tupac Shakur. So Shakur Smith is my full name, but it's just easier to remember Shaq because Everybody knows Shaquille O'Neal, so.
- [01:07]
A
Bro, that doesn't. That doesn't help me. Both of those much cooler than Jerry. Tell me one famous rapper named Jerry. None.
- [01:19]
B
Famous athlete.
- [01:21]
A
Well, sure. Yeah, sure. Like Jerry Rice, Jerry Stackhouse. Like Jerry Seinfeld, you know? Yeah. Jerry Springer. I got a lot of Jerry Springer as a kid because Jerry Springer was popular around the time where I was, like, a teenager, and there was a lot of, Like, Jerry. Jerry. I got a lot of that, but I don't think that's cool either. That's very white trash. So it's.
- [01:43]
B
Sorry, bro. I didn't mean to.
- [01:46]
A
You know, what do you do? So we're going to. We're going to talk about Instagram. We're going to kind of get into this a little bit. I have a thought. I have a thought about this, about that. I want you to kind of confirm or deny whether you feel the same way about it. But when I was getting started as a chiropractor, there was this. Was. I graduated in 2004. And at that time, there seemed to be this uncertainty about whether chiropractors even needed a website, which I know sounds super bizarre in this day and age, but we were sort of transitioning out of the old world into the new world, and it was like do we even need a website? And we've gotten to the point, point now where chiropractors are very, very sure that they need a website. But I am very convinced, having done websites for chiropractors, that most chiropractors don't know why they need one. So they get. They get one, but they don't. They've never really thought about why. And there's no real strategy as to why they're doing it. They're just doing it because they know they're supposed to do it. So you probably see where I'm going already. But so now we have social media, we have Instagram, we have Facebook. We have all this stuff. And I know that in this day and age that chiropractors have transitioned over to a point where they know that social media is good and they know social media can help them. But I feel like we're in. We're in a place with websites and with social media where chiropractors are not actually asking themselves, why do I need social media? And how can this actually help me in any sort of intelligent way? So tell me what you think about that sort of thought.
- [03:19]
B
Oh, man, there's a lot. So I'll start off with this. People have to know you exist. They have to know you exist. And one of the fastest. And to me, to me, one of the fastest and cheapest ways for you to do that is through social media, because that's where most of the attention is at right now. I mean, for any chiropractor that's even listening to this, you're on social media. I know you are, right? Like, you're, you're, you're. You're literally showing with yourself that social media is where the attention is at. So that's one thing is you have to go to where the attention is at in order to be recognized first and foremost. So that's one thing. Another thing that I could add onto that is social media. I'm gonna tell you the way that people are using social media now nowadays. So before, you know, it was kind of like people seen an ad, they just click on it. They put in their information, hey, we got our new patient special, right? Yeah. But what people are actually doing now is even if they see an ad like that, because those ads have been running for like a decade now, they go to the actual profile and look at the social media content. And what the social media content is supposed to do is it's supposed to, one, separate you from other chiropractors. Because let's Just be honest. The average person thinks that a chiropractor is a chiropractor is a chiropractor. Right, Exactly. So your social media is one, gonna separate you from other chiropractors and two, it helps build a, a tighter connection and relationship with that person without them even stepping foot into your office yet. Yeah, right. And that's huge. Why? Right, because one of the things that I like to say is most of us, we do businesses or we do business with businesses. Excuse me, that we know like and trust. Very simple. So if you can build that before someone even steps into your office or even considers becoming a patient, I think you've already won. Now, the goal is, is, are you doing that more than your competitors? Because if your competitors are doing that more, they're more than likely going to win. And like, here's the thing, like, every chiropractor is different, so there's those factors. Right. But for the most part, if they're winning in that, it's like, what are you going to do? Right? So it's essential. It's essential for not just. You don't just want to do it, just to do it. Like, you need to get yourself out there and you need to show people, hey, this is what I do. Right. I'm here and I can help you with this when you need it. When you need it, right? Yeah. So, yeah, those are a couple of things I could go on and on about it, but those are the biggest things that I hit on a lot.
- [05:59]
A
I think one of the things that's interesting that chiropractors don't think about is that you had mentioned, like, every chiropractor is unique and every chiropractor is different. And I think that. And I just had this conversation, I say conversation when I did a, I did a video assessment for a chiropractor and I said this in the video. So it wasn't really conversation, but the, I was telling them because they're very hyper focused on their way of doing chiropractic. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Like, I like technique nerds and I like people that are super into what they do because they generally are really good at it. If they, if you're, if the chiropractor really cares about it, they're generally really good at it.
- [06:36]
B
Right.
- [06:36]
A
With that said, what I told them was, is what the patient needs to know is that they found the right place and that you've given them hope. Like the thing that you are emphasizing, if it's not doing if it's not helping them know that they found the right place. So building trust, comfort, assurance, all of that stuff, and giving them hope. If it's not doing that, it's not helping the process of transitioning someone from non patient to patient. And I said, I am not disregarding your love for that technique and how important that is and any of that stuff. Like, those things are important, but they're more important for the results and they're more important for the chiropractor than they are the patient. And the actual process of going from non patient to patient. Because what they had said to me was, we want people to show up with a basic understanding of xyz, which is like their thing. And I said, I don't think they need a basic understanding of xyz. They need to know that what you do is safe and effective and it can help them. Like, and then why you do something unique can be the reason that you make that argument. And it could be also the reason why if they've gone to 10 other chiropractors that haven't been happy, you can now make the argument that, hey, but you haven't done what we do because we do something different. But you're still, while you're communicating that you're communicating hope to that person. And I think, I think chiropractors often focus on the wrong thing. Whether. And they do that, they do that through social media, they do it through their ads, they do it through their community outreach. They just focus on the wrong thing.
- [08:08]
B
Yeah, yeah. To add on to that. Yeah. I mean, they, they focus more on the features and not the benefits. Right. It's like, I'm just gonna be completely honest with you. Nobody cares. Like, the average person does not care. Like, for me, I'm going to see this chiropractor not because he's, you know. Well, yeah, because he's an upper cervical chiropractor. But I suffer with migraines and headaches. So when he showed me like, he, he didn't, he didn't tell me like, hey, this is my technique or anything. He's just like, you know, these are the people that we've helped with migraines. And I'm like, oh, perfect. That's all I'm thinking about. Right. So yeah, I'm glad that you mentioned that, that definitely focusing a lot on the features and not what are they going to get. And like you said, giving them hope. Right. What is the benefits that you're going to give them? And then when they get in the office, you can explain all that to them later. Yeah, right. So that's. Yeah, you hit the nail on the head for sure.
- [09:08]
A
So with, with. When talking about Instagram, there's. Can you explain really quick just the difference between Instagram organically and Instagram ads, like advertising? Because I think that growing your. Growing your business or growing Instagram, if you're going to be like, I'm going to grow Instagram now, it's not an either or. I know that. But. But the approach you take to grow it organically is not necessarily the same approach you take with ads. And people, I think, need to understand that those are Two different things.
- [09:40]
B
100%. So for me, whenever it comes to organic, it's very, very tough to build a local. The keyword is local audience organically. Because you're depending on the algorithm. And let's just be honest, the algorithm's not. It's not perfect. It's going to. You're going to reach people that are in India. Right. Like when it comes to just focusing on the algorithm. Right. So when I look at organic, I look at it in a very different way. I look at the organic side of the organically marketing to my followers, to the followers, the audience itself. So if you're trying to grow organically without spending money on ads and you want a local community being built, that's going to be very tough to do. I'm not going to lie. I've tried to do it before. I tried a full year. It doesn't work that well. So I lean more into the paid aspect. Right. So the paid aspect. And I'm just going to basically let everything go and say what the strategy is. So the goal is to take a piece of your content, run it as an adding or area, and send the traffic to your Instagram profile so that people can follow you. And the goal is to build a local following because like I always say, there's no reason having followers all over the world of the people that you serve is in your community. Yeah.
- [10:59]
A
When you're local business. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's why there was years ago, like, that's sort of a side tangent. But there was a chiropractor. When I started Rocket Chiro, there was a chiropractor that was going around teaching chiropractors how to podcast. And he was, he was marketing it as like, this is the secret. Like, this is the thing that's missing from your practice, the podcast. Now, listen, I am not crapping on podcasting. I love podcasting. But Podcasting ain't local. Like, it is not. And I understand you could, like, you could kind of niche it down by having local people and talking about local things. Like, I, I understand that. And I understand if you were, if you were following like a, a certain team, like I listened to the Buffalo Bills podcast, you know, and I know that's probably more local than a lot of other podcasts, but it's just not local. And you have to think about that when you're doing. Cause you can't just look at your Instagram following and say like, oh, I have X amount of followers. Like, this is really helping my business. If you have nothing to offer them other than people that drive to your practice. Like, they need to be local.
- [12:00]
B
Exactly, exactly. And that's the biggest thing there's literally been. I can't remember what profile it is. It was a model. They had millions of followers, but they couldn't make any money from their followers. Right. So when I look at that, that what that shows me is what are the quality of the followers at the end of the day. So the best way that you can do that is by running ads 100%. Right. Now when it comes to the targeting and all of that, that's up to you who you want to target. I just do the basic target. Anybody within 5 to 10 miles. Right.
- [12:33]
A
Do you find age, do you age restrict at all with, with like chiropractors?
- [12:37]
B
Yes. So one, there are some that, you know, they're kind of like, yeah, this is my audience. But for me, a good age would be anywhere between 28 to about 50, I think is a good age for me. Just because, you know, if you target an 18 year old, they're gonna have to ask their parents.
- [12:57]
A
Yeah, I've had that conversation with chiropractors that do pediatric. Like they, they're doing pediatric chiropractic and then they're, they're focusing on kids and I'm like, you got to market to the parents. Like, you can't really market to the kids. Like, the kids aren't making the decision, like, what are you, what are you doing? Like it says it's. Yeah, so I've seen that before.
- [13:16]
B
I've ran into the same issue with chiropractic offices targeting high school athletes. You got to talk to the parents.
- [13:24]
A
Exact same thing.
- [13:25]
B
Yeah. So when it comes to that, that's kind of my age range when it comes to that. Just because 28, more than likely you got a stable job and you definitely got some problems. I'm 27 and I got problems. So that's the problem.
- [13:40]
A
If you're 28. If you're 28 and you don't have money, it's your fault.
- [13:45]
B
I didn't mean. I didn't mean problems as in, like, money. I meant, like, physically, like, you know, I get it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [13:52]
A
But things start falling apart.
- [13:53]
B
Exactly. Right. So. But that's kind of.
- [13:56]
A
I'm at the age. I'm at the age now. We talked about age before we started recording. I'm at the age now where when something starts hurting, I start to wonder if it's always going to be that way.
- [14:05]
B
Yeah. So, yeah, that. Yeah. It's funny that you say that, because I'm starting to think that slowly now, even though I'm 27 going on 28. But, yeah, man. So when it comes to Instagram, because we're talking about paid, it's very, very crucial because one, like, you have more control. I like control over my marketing. I don't know about you and who sees my stuff. So if you're going to focus on growing your audience, truly, and if you want to really, really get patience from Instagram, you gotta, one, say, okay, I'm going to do ads, because you got to do it if you want that. And then two, focus in on, of course, like, okay, like, you know, on the organic side. What can I make organically? Because, like, once people follow you, if they're engaging with their stuff, they see your stuff. Right. And technically, I like to say you're marketing to them for free. Right. Over time. So then you got to think about, okay, like, what can I produce that will actually help this following and nurture this following. It's like an email list, right? You get people in your email list, you send a weekly email out, you nurture them. That's the same thing I think about with, with Instagram. You get the local follower, the content nurtures them. Eventually they either become a patient, whether it's now or later, or they refer you to someone they know. Right.
- [15:23]
A
So two, two things, two things that I wanted to ask you about. One is, have you noticed a, like, budget threshold for, like, hey, if you're not willing to spend at least X amount of dollars, like, you're, you're, you know, you gotta, you gotta put some skin in the game. And that's this amount and up. And then the second question, and I'm doing these together, so I don't forget to ask, is that, have you noticed a particular type of content? Or can you speak to the type of content that Maybe works better with an ad and engagement and stuff like that. Because I have some opinions about that, but I wanted to hear what you thought. So tell me about budget and then tell me about content.
- [15:59]
B
Yeah. So budget wise, starting out, anywhere between 2 to $500 a month. Really? Right?
- [16:06]
A
Oh yeah, that's, that's not bad.
- [16:07]
B
It's not at all. Now whenever you start growing, you get more patients spend more, for sure. I have, I think Dr. Stratton, he's at over a grand, I think. Yeah, but look at where he's at. Right. So he's been doing it for years now. But yes, 2 to 500 is a good start. I would say $10 a day minimum is where you could start. And if you really don't want to squeeze that much money out, you could do five. But I've never really seen much movement with $5 a day. $10 a day is good.
- [16:40]
A
Yeah, I know that. I know. And the reason I ask is because I know that when I do Google Ads for chiropractors, like, there's, there's a point where it's like these ads are not, they're not even getting out into the universe because your budget's too, too low. And there's, you're almost better off. Like with my, with my Google Ads clients that they have a low budget, I'll run their daily budget up and I'll shut their ads off. Like I have, I have had a better result running it up and getting them going and then maybe like killing them on the weekend or just running them up until their ad budget is done for the month and then shutting them off for two weeks. Like I feel like I do better with that than just having this pitiful low like per day budget that just doesn't, nothing happens. Like the needle doesn't move.
- [17:24]
B
Yeah. Yeah. Well, and let me ask you this too. Like, so when you cut it off, it's kind of like, like here's the thing, when you ramp it up, do you notice a big difference and do you see them actually getting results? Right.
- [17:37]
A
It's, it's better not to fiddle with it if it's, if it's rocking and rolling, it's better not to fiddle with it because you, and this is a different, this is a different conversation I've had sometimes where, I mean, when you, when you get an ad that really hits and your caught, your exposure is up, your cost is down. It is such a beautiful thing.
- [17:59]
B
Oh yeah.
- [18:00]
A
I would never, I would tell them, be like, hey dude, just freaking ride it. Out. Now, usually if I'm. If I'm playing with it, it's not. It's not like killing it statistically. If it was killing it statistically, I'd be like, listen, we gotta. We got to come up with a better option here, you know?
- [18:18]
B
Yeah.
- [18:19]
A
Because at that point, if it's killing it statistically, like, okay, you're getting. You're getting leads for $20 or $30. Like, you're getting people to. Because I'm monitoring, like, scheduled appointments. So it's like, if you're. If you're getting 20, 30 bucks and you got people scheduling appointments, like. Like, you got to be making enough money that you can throw a little more money at this that. You know what I mean? Because it's not uncommon to be spending 150 or $200 to get. To get somebody to schedule an appointment. So if you're getting them really, really low, I could probably talk somebody into just letting it ride.
- [18:50]
B
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
- [18:52]
A
I just know that those. Those low daily budgets are killers. That's all. It's.
- [18:56]
B
Oh, yeah. 100%, man. And it's funny that you talked about. I call that the unicorn ad. Whenever it just crushes it. There's literally a client right now. We've been running the same ad for a year and three months, and it consistently brings in about two to five patients a week. Right. So there's definitely.
- [19:15]
A
What's his. What's the cost running? Like, is he. Is it.
- [19:18]
B
What's he running right now? We're. We're doing about 20 a day. Right. And that. We never went past that.
- [19:26]
A
Yeah, I had an ad. I had an ad that I ran that was. It was a. It was one of those unicorn ads for myself, and it was. I was advertising for my podcast when I first started it, and I did a podcast. It was called the Big Fat Chiropractic Lie. And I found this image that was. It looked like they had this big head, and it had this big. Like. It's like this big person holding a carrot, and there's these little guys, like, jumping off of a cliff, like, falling off a cliff, going for the carrot. It was a beautiful image, and I don't know where it came from. I'm sure I wasn't even supposed to use it, because I just stole it from somewhere. But that combination of wording and image and whatever it was. Freaking on fire. Fire. And. And it did. It phased out eventually, and I just. I haven't ever. I tried to run it again at different times just to see and it, it sort of lost its mojo. But yeah, it was cool what it was going on.
- [20:24]
B
Yeah, it, it's amazing when it happens. And, and the ad that we're running right now, it has no adjustments, there's no cracks. It's literally him doing gradston, scraping someone's foot. Right.
- [20:35]
A
Yeah. So that kind of brings me into content. Like it's, it's talk a little bit about content like what you've seen that does well, what doesn't do well.
- [20:42]
B
Yeah. So for sure what doesn't do well is educational content. Unless you can make it very, very entertaining. Because we have to remember at the end of the day, people are not on social media to be educated, they're on social media to be entertained. Right. So educational content for me is like, that's like the lowest performing one, the top performing ones. And I know there are going to be some chiropractors that cringe at this, are definitely the ones where you're adjusting and they can hear the, you know, the popping, the cracking. Now here's the thing is, and we, it's funny because we just talked about sensitivity. There are a lot of chiropractors that are against that and I understand that. I know that. I know we know that chiropractic is not just about popping and cracking, Right. But it's not about what we know, it's about what the other person on the screen knows. Right. On the other person, on the person on the other side of the screen, they're thinking, oh my gosh, like, I need that right now. There are some things that you can do to make it more like it's not just about the pop in the crack. Like, for instance, Dr. Tubio does a great job of this. He shows that, but he also shows the transformation, right. The testimonial of, oh, like I've had this going on and now I feel like this. Right. So there are things that you can do to kind of, you know, add next to the popping and the cracking. But that's the best performing content that I've ran as an ad for clients. Yeah, go ahead. Sorry.
- [22:14]
A
I saw a video. This is what it reminded me of is, and I don't remember who, I think it was a doc in like he was Australia maybe, and he was a gonstead chiropractor. And this kid, I call him a kid. I mean, he's probably a teenager, maybe early twenties. And he's, he's like showing up all like hunched over and everything. And it's a fairly long video, but it's they show this person essentially, after a few treatments and care, whatever, like, he's walking perfectly fine. And they kind of, you know, they made it short enough that you could watch it. And it was interesting. That got tons of views and tons of shares. And that's obviously not like a back crack, but it's what you. You said. And that word's important. It's transformational. It's. It's visual. It's even testimonials. Like, one of the things I tell my clients is the worst thing you could do is put a camera up in front of your client's face and say, tell me your story. Like, that's a. That's a terrible video because they're just going to ramble on for 15, 20 minutes about nothing. And there's going to be. There's going to be about 30 seconds of beautiful, sexy wonderfulness that is in that video, and no one's going to see it. And so either cut out the sexy wonderfulness or ask very specific leading questions and then chop it up into, like, whatever the goodness is and throw the crap away. And. But that's what chiropractors do, is they're like, you know, tell me your story. And it's like, well, I grew up in Wisconsin, and then it's like.
- [23:41]
B
We want to get into the meat and potatoes here.
- [23:43]
A
Yeah, no one cares about Wisconsin. Like, let's.
- [23:45]
B
Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, yeah. No, when it. When it comes to content and ads, like, for that. I mean, on the ads part, for me, that's worked best. Um, now, if we're talking about just organic content, there's typically four types of content that I suggest to all chiropractors, not just my clients. One is definitely treatment videos. And. And here's the thing. If you do more than one thing, like, if you have shockwave, if you have the show, those other things, too. Yeah, right. Like, that's another thing. That's another thing I want to touch on, too, actually, is running those as ads work really well, too, because, you know, people are used to seeing the chiropractic content where people are getting adjusted. So when you throw something different out there, it's like, whoa. Like, it just stands out. Right. My coach always told me, when somebody goes right, go left. Right. So if you have other services, definitely promote those. But treatment videos, educational videos, testimonials, and personable content. Right. Those are the four types of content that I really hit on when it comes to just content on the page itself, because we hit every angle. One, we show A testimonial coming from the horse's mouth. Hey, this is what I went through. They really helped me. Right. To educational shows that you're an authority, that you know what the hell you're doing. Right. People want to go to a chiropractor that they can say, hey, he knows what he's doing. He sounds like it at least. Right Adjustment. They want to see what you do. Right. Like how do you get these results? And then the personable content is more of just like a cherry on the top. So that's where you actually build a connection between you and the follower.
- [25:20]
A
Because you're a human.
- [25:21]
B
Exactly. You got to show the human side you're not. And that's another thing too, that I don't know if you're open to talking about that. But chiropractors really focusing on the doctor patient relationship and not necessarily focusing on building that true relationship where literally like they know not everything. You know, share, share what you want, but they know some personable stuff about you, you know, like that's important.
- [25:44]
A
Yeah, I think it really depends on the chiropractor because I was never stuffy with my patients. Um, when I started in practice. So I was 24 years old when I graduated from chiropractic college and I started my practice six months later. So I was 24 years old when I started my practice. And I was really insecure about my age and I was insecure about how people would see me and not respecting me and whatever. So I went through this phase of like dressing a certain way. I even considered like, maybe I should wear glasses. Like, they didn't have like, you know, they just had like glass in them. But I was like, maybe it'll make me look older. And I. There's all these dumb things that I considered, you know, wearing a tie and whatever. And it's, and it's like. And then as time went on, I got more comfortable in my own skin and I started doing what I called like Casual Friday, which is basically like, I just didn't feel like dressing up. So I would wear, you know, just jeans and a button up shirt or some tennis shoes, whatever. But. And I had this like thought of what if every day was casual day. I was like, let me ask the boss, huh? Boss says it's fine, says it's a brilliant idea. And so I started getting very comfortable in my own skin, in my practice. And my practice became very, just very casual. Like even like the art, like this sort of thing where there's like random pictures almost like you would see in like a sports bar or something. Like that's how my practice looked where I had a bunch of just. Some of them were funny pictures. Some of them, like I have, have a, I have a couple of them around here. Like I have a thing that says it's a metal tin and it says stress relief therapy Bang head here. And it's like, and it's just like a, it's a joke, you know, and there's like a Hershey's syrup ad from the 50s that has this little girl walking on these big Hershey's syrup cans. And it says stepping stones to health. Which is hilarious that Hershey's marketed themselves as a healthy drink at some point. And so it's like I would like find these random funny things that were somewhat health related or whatever. And I sort of made an environment, but it was just very casual environment. And as a result of that, my patients were very comfortable. On the flip side of that, you have doctors that they do the white coat and they do the tie and they, the authority is a big thing for them and they want that respect. They want to be a real doctor. And I think that that can create an environment where you don't have that closeness. But I do think, and this is sort of me rambling on about getting to a point is I think that when you have those intimate moments, what you're doing is you're creating an environment where you're doing what I consider true retention, which is you are maintaining the doctor patient relationship for an extended period of time. What I tell my clients is when a person comes to you and they choose you as their chiropractor, you want them to have chosen you as their chiropractor anytime in the future that they need a chiropractor. They're not looking at ads, they're not searching Google. They're not seeing the who's closest, they're not seeing who's in their network. It's like, oh, I need to go to the chiropractor. I'm going to go see Dr. Jerry because he's my chiropractor. Yeah, that's what. And that, I think the intimate relationship, whether that's sharing stuff on social or sharing stuff in person or whatever, that builds a bond that leads you in that direction where you become their chiropractor. There's a personal element, there's a, there's a cementing of that relationship that happens because of that.
- [29:11]
B
Oh yeah. It's almost like it makes them feel like it's Wrong if they even think about going to somebody else.
- [29:17]
A
Yeah, absolutely. And I'm not saying you should do it to manipulate people. I'm just saying that you should do it because you care about people. And like, even you and I, before we, like, this is the first time you and I have ever actually talked in person. But before we started recording this, like, we just spent time talking about nothing.
- [29:36]
B
Yeah.
- [29:37]
A
That I do that with any of my clients that I've never talked to before because I want to, I just want there to be something there. I don't want it to just be like, oh, we jumped in, we just met. Let me just start asking you some questions. I don't think it's super beneficial to do that.
- [29:52]
B
I agree, I agree 100%. And I guess I could take, I could take some of that too, because I, I haven't been doing a good job of, of trying to build more of a relationship with you before this.
- [30:04]
A
Listen, I'll tell you. You and I talked about being introverted. Like, I, it's, I know with a thousand percent certainty that this year would be my best year ever if I just got out of my introvert way and did a better job with the relationships that I already have. Like, am I just, just reaching out, just being a human, just caring and just, and it's not that I don't care. It's just that I'm, I'm uncomfortable. Like, to be honest with you. It's like, it's not that I don't care. I'm uncomfortable. So my business and my life suffers because of my unwillingness to cultivate relationships more deeply. And that's probably a lesson to anyone, and especially people that are listening, that are introverts, to just say, listen, you're going to pay a price for that lack of relationship building that you are doing, whether it's in longevity, whether it's right now, or whether it's long term. You are paying a price for not building relationships that are more deeper than surface level.
- [31:04]
B
Exactly. 100%. Yeah. I, I, I am an introvert too as well. I've worked that muscle out a lot though. So I, I, yeah, and I, I, I can talk to people. But that's definitely, that's another thing too, that I've ran into with some clients and just even people that are not clients, chiropractors that are not clients, that they don't, when they're in the messages and they're messaging people, you know, there's, there's not any, how would I say this? They're not being a human, they're just being very doctor, Which I understand. Right. But, you know, showing some empathy here and there. So that's kind of like rambling onto something different. So I'm not going to get into that. But, yeah, that's what that reminded me of.
- [31:44]
A
So I guess, I guess that kind of takes me to the process you had mentioned. Like, you're sending them to the Instagram page. You want them to have good content. This is the type of content that you think is good content. Are you encouraging people to. When somebody starts following you, you see that's a local person. Are you encouraging them to just reach out to them through messaging or some. Like, how, how do you take that further? Because I know that especially, especially me being an introvert, like, and I'm super bad about this. So, like, listen, this is, this is me telling you I do not do this.
- [32:14]
B
Yeah.
- [32:14]
A
But, like, I know that I would probably. This is the other thing I should probably start doing is when someone starts following me, just sending them a quick message and just saying kind of like, hey, thanks for following me. You know, if I can answer any questions. But, like, because you're, you're starting an engagement, you're starting a process, is that kind of what, how you take this from, you're building a following to. You're getting patience from it and you're starting to build relationships is through that direct messaging and that sort of thing?
- [32:40]
B
100%, I would say that is the main thing. Right. Because most social media agencies, they'll say, hey, we'll do your content, we'll get you a lot of views, we'll get you a lot of likes. And then you go, well, hey, how are we going to get patients? And they're like, oh, right. So, yeah, that's definitely the biggest thing is messaging. Messaging for me, if you sit around and wait for people to take action, it's kind of like, it's brutal. Like, you're, you're not going to get a lot, a lot of people in that way. Right. But I kind of like to look at it as, you know, what do you do whenever you go out and you do guerrilla marketing? You're going to people, right? You're not waiting for people to come to you. So take that same mindset and put it on Instagram. When somebody follows you, when somebody engages, like, if you see someone that liked your post and it was about back pain, reach out to them and say, hey, I saw that you liked my back pain post. Just wanted to reach out and See if that's something that maybe you're dealing with and see if, if I could give you some tips, right. And just kind of take it on from there. So I do have a specific framework that I give my clients when it comes to the messaging, because the messaging is kind of tough just because everybody's different, you're talking to different personalities, things like that. But the main formula that I could kind of even give everybody on here is first build rapport, right? So that's when you do the reach out of, hey, thanks for the follow. Appreciate your support. How'd you find us? What made you want to follow us, whatever. And then you want to slowly move into qualifying them, right? So qualifying them, you're qualifying them in one, are they in your area because that's important or are they close? Two, do they have a problem that you can solve? Right, so those are the main ones. We could go deeper into that. But there's a, there's a lot that we could talk about when it comes to that. And then you want to move into conversion. So once you find out, hey, there's in my area, I can't help them with this. Now it's in time to invite them in. Notice I said invite, not force. Right? So that's kind of the whole framework in the process. Like I said, I do help my clients with this on like a deeper level. Because listen, like you do have to follow up with people if they don't respond because it is a numbers game at the end of the day, right? Like you're going to get people that don't respond at all. You're going to get people that stop responding to you. What do you do? Right. So yeah, but that's, that's the conversion process. That's how you actually turn followers into new patients over time.
- [35:04]
A
That was something that I talked to people with patient follow up. Not so much social media because I don't consider myself social media expert by any stretch of the imagination. Otherwise I would do things differently or better. I would do things I know I'm supposed to do. But when it comes to patient follow up with like patient retention, I always tell chiropractors you need to have a short term plan, a long term plan. The short term plan is the person was supposed to be here today and they didn't show up. So what do you do and what do you do when you, how are you going to reach out to them and if you don't hear back from them, what's the follow up? You need to have a Plan. Because if you don't have a plan, you're going to. You run the risk of having two extremes. One, you drop the ball and you just don't get somebody back in that you would have come in if you just would have reached out to them. Or two, you harass people because you weren't paying attention to what you were doing, you didn't have a plan and you just were, you were thinking you're just reaching out. But it went past that because you didn't have a plan and you reached out to them 25 times instead of five times that you thought you did.
- [36:04]
B
Yeah.
- [36:05]
A
So having a plan is important. And I would imagine with exactly what you're saying is that you need to have. Not that there's a perfect plan, but you have to have a plan. That way you know when someone, you know, when do I ask? When do I Don't. When do I follow up? When do I stop following up? Because that all. You can sabotage relationships by just doing something ignorantly or without a plan.
- [36:30]
B
100%. Yeah. I'll give you an example, a really good example. We, let's say we reach out to someone, you know, they don't respond to the first message. We wait 24 hours. That's kind of my rule. Wait 24 hours, follow up with them, say, hey, did you get my message? If they don't say anything after that, I do something called send them off. Just say, hey, if you have any questions, reach out anytime and leave them alone. Yeah, because that's obviously a sign that they don't want to talk. Right. And you don't want to leave a bad taste in their mouth from the get go. Right. So that's an example of what I do in one of my follow ups. If somebody doesn't respond at all. Yeah.
- [37:08]
A
You can turn. Chiropractors turn. I think this is super sad, by the way. Let's suppose that somebody comes in, they have a particular problem. You tell them it's going to take 10 visits and it's going to take 12 visits, something like that. That person comes in four times, they don't come in anymore. Now the doctor thinks this person abandoned care. They stopped coming in because they don't really understand, they don't get it, something wrong happened, whatever. They could be thinking that the patient's thinking, this is the greatest chiropractor ever. He got me better. Now we could argue whether that's right or not. But the patient's thinking he got me better in four visits instead of 12. He got me better in four visits instead of three months. It was three days. They're thinking, this is the greatest chiropractor ever. They're going to come back. Next time they need a chiropractor. They're going around telling all their friends and family how amazing you are. And then your staff spends the next three months harassing them on the phone, trying to get them back in. And so one of the things I told my staff when I was in practice is that we operate under the assumption that we did a bang up job until somebody tells us otherwise. So if somebody doesn't come in anymore, I'm assuming it's because I'm freaking awesome and they don't need me anymore. Now, whether they do or not, we could argue that point, but we never called them with a tone that they, there was something wrong or that we had done something wrong or that they'd done something wrong. We were just checking in with them, you know, Right. Anything. We're just checking in. If you need something, give us a call, hope you're doing well, assume you're doing well, whatever. We always had a very pleasant tone and we never assumed the relationship was bad unless we knew the relationship was bad.
- [38:51]
B
Right.
- [38:52]
A
And because why do that? Like, it's just as likely they're happy with you that it's probably more likely they're happy with you than not. Because chiropractors generally do a good job. So, you know, why, why come at someone with that sort of tone when you could, you could ruin a relationship.
- [39:08]
B
Yeah. And that's with people that have came in. So imagine doing that with people that haven't even came in yet. That just, it does, it makes it. Yeah, it makes it to where that person doesn't want to come in. And I'm glad that you brought that up because when I tell my clients to follow up, like let's say for instance, we were in a conversation with someone, they kind of just stopped messaging us and you know, it's been a little while. What I tell my clients is, hey, just reach out to them and see if they're okay. Like, just ask them, hey, is everything all right? Right. How are you doing? Right. Hey, it's Christmas. Hey, Just wanted to reach out and tell you Merry Christmas. Like that. That really does a lot for them. It's like, oh, because what are they thinking? They're thinking most of the time they're just trying to get me booked. And I've had clients do that. And I said, stop doing that. Just reach out and check in on Them be human. Right. Be a one to build a true relationship with them and they'll remember that. You know what I mean? So yeah, I'm glad that you brought that up.
- [40:10]
A
So when. So you were talking about running ads to reach new people, you were talking about retargeting. Do you retarget from websites and, and from other like are you sending out ads from a retargeting standpoint or do you just consider like get them on and you're. Because you're posting and they're interacting with those posts as a, as a retargeting method.
- [40:33]
B
So there's, there's another way that I do do paid advertising when it comes to retargeting, but it's not from the website. So one, the one way is the organic. Hey, they see our content organically. That's one way of retargeting. Another way is you can actually retarget your followers. Right. So that's the way that we do the retargeting. If the client wants to do that, I highly recommend the client does that. And that's.
- [41:00]
A
You're running ads, you're running ads to.
- [41:02]
B
Yes. So basically we're running. Go ahead. Sorry.
- [41:05]
A
And that's different. I'm just going to clarify. That's different than like boosting a post. Like a lot of people, like they just. To me that's like the lowest hanging fruit way of doing ads is like boosting a post, but kind of speak to the difference there.
- [41:19]
B
Yeah. So when we're getting followers, we definitely boost. That's the funny part, right. Is we do boost from.
- [41:26]
A
If you notice you're getting followers from a particular post, you'll boost it.
- [41:30]
B
Yeah, well we boost from the get go to get followers. Like we don't do Ads Manager or anything. Which that's, that's another thing too that I've heard a lot of, you know, professionals say is if you click that boost button then you don't, you're not. Which I get it. You know, there isn't a lot to it. But if there's of course, like if there's a strategy behind it though, then that makes it different. Right. So when we're getting followers we do boost. Right. But when we retarget. Yes. We do have to go into the ads manager because it doesn't allow us to do that on that surface level. Right. So yeah, we do run retargeting ads to our followers and those are more of ads to try to get them in the messages. So if you could kind of see this a Picture this in your head. We get the person as a follower. Okay. Now we have a retargeting ad that's going to them. That's a messenger ad that basically says, hey, if you want to come in or if you want to chat to see if we can help, message us this keyword. And then.
- [42:28]
A
Interesting, right?
- [42:30]
B
And then when they click on the ad, they message and now we're in the conversation.
- [42:34]
A
So you're not re. You're not re targeting posts to your followers, you're sending messenger ads to, for like a call to action.
- [42:44]
B
Yeah, exactly. So I'm sending messenger ads, retargeting ads to the following that we have.
- [42:50]
A
And that's set up through the meta ad thing, right? That's not going to be through Instagram itself.
- [42:58]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [42:59]
A
Grads manager.
- [43:00]
B
Yes sir.
- [43:01]
A
Interesting. Yeah, I never thought about that. Like, not now. My wheels are turning.
- [43:07]
B
Well, well, let me add on to this. You got to kind of think about the platform itself. You know, Instagram is very like people DM on Instagram all the time. That's like the nature of the platform. Right. That's not the same as Facebook because I tried that on Facebook and the messaging is terrible on Facebook. Right. It's just the culture of the platform. So whenever you follow along those lines, it'll work out. You just got to do it effectively in the correct way.
- [43:33]
A
I think it's so important to understand what you're working with. It's so important to. Because it's like I did Facebook ads. I was doing Facebook ads when I was in practice back when like you could only do right hand side ads. I have Facebook ad. Like I had, I don't, they don't have any more, but I had some from like it was like 2007. Like it was, I mean it was like when they first started doing ads and, and it's just a different, it's a different animal because on Facebook you're really taking someone from Facebook onto your website and sort of running them through your funnel more in like a traditional marketing way. But I could see how like TikTok, Instagram, like there's certain platforms that are almost like self contained universes, you know, and it's like, and if you're pulling them off of that and trying to get them to go to the website, like I, I can imagine that that would be less effective. But I hadn't really thought about using the messenger, like using it now. Are you taking, when you say text us this number or whatever? Like what is that process? Are they Are they contacting you and talking to you through the DM and then scheduling that way? Are you ultimately sending them to the website? Like what's kind of of that process look like?
- [44:48]
B
Yeah, so I'll start from the beginning. You'll tend very shortly. So they see the ad, they say, yeah, I want to chat with the doc. Important chat, not book. Right. You want to, you want them to think like, hey, we're having a chat about this. So they reach out, they say, hey, you know, we. And we say, hey, what made you want to reach out? Yeah, so d. You go through the conversation and then by the end of that conversation, there's a couple of things that you could do. But I'm going to tell you what's the best way to do this? This. If you have a front desk person, have your front desk person handling the messages and then they can just get them scheduled right then and there. Right. Or if you're doing that yourself, get them scheduled right then and there in the messenger. That's the best way to do it. Now the second best way to do it is say, hey, do you mind giving us a call? Okay. And people will call you. And that's the second best way is getting them to call your front desk or to call you so that you can then book them over the phone. So that's kind of what that looks like. There are other ways that I've tried and it's kind of a hit or miss. Like sending them a website link is. It doesn't work that well because it's kind of like, well, it's just there. Like you just kind of leave it there. Right. They could do it. They cannot. And there's another way that I think could work, but not a lot of chiropractors like to do it. And people don't like to do it either is asking them for their information in the messages. So, hey, you know, can I get your first, last name, email, phone number and we'll contact you or something like that, Right?
- [46:11]
A
Yeah.
- [46:11]
B
You know that that's kind of a hurdle too. So the top best ones that I found is you either you get them, you figure out the scheduling through the DMs and you schedule them yourself or you get them to call you.
- [46:24]
A
Yeah, I know that. What I've seen even over the last 10 years of working with chiropractors is the effectiveness of email through. Through. Because what was really common, what was really common before, like online schedulers were like so prevalent because now they're really prevalent for people to Just schedule themselves online. People go to the website. It would say, hey, new patients, fill out this form and we'll contact you. You know, whatever. My gosh. If you want to talk about an absolute dumpster fire of a funnel, have that in there. Because it just. You just lose people. Like, they go to some other website where they can schedule online, or they go to some other site where they can text the doctor, or they go to some Instagram account and they can DM someone directly. Like, that whole delay of, like, you email us and we'll email you. Ugh. Like, I always try to talk my clients out of doing it. I mean, if that's the only option they want or whatever, I'm like, that's fine. Just understand you're losing people. And then when they complain about it, because they're like, well, we had four people get ahold of us and none of them scheduled. I'm like, yeah, I don't know what to tell you. Yeah, like, they reached out to you and you weren't there. Like, that's what that. Like, you know, because it's, it's. That time delay is a. Is a severing of the conversation as opposed to a text, a chat, a dm, something where they. You can get back to them within a matter of minutes.
- [47:49]
B
Yeah. And I'm glad that you actually brought that up, because that is still important when it comes to the DMs, that doesn't go away because, you know, I, I've even done it where if someone reaches out and I don't reach out to them the next day, we don't get anything back from them. So time is still a big thing. Right. You still need to make sure that you're at least reaching out to those people that day, at least. Right. So that's the biggest thing. That's also the reason why. And I was gonna. This is what I was gonna add on to it too, as well. With AI, you know, being integrated and everything like that, there are ways that you can actually have it to where, you know, I don't know if. Are you familiar with many chat.
- [48:27]
A
No, I've been. Are you talking about chat bots and stuff? Like, I, I've. I've started going down this path for my website clients. Like, I'm, I, I'm. I haven't done it yet, but I'm. I'm looking at it because it's becoming a thing.
- [48:38]
B
I know.
- [48:39]
A
It's.
- [48:39]
B
It's very convenient too, as well, especially if you're just. Even if you're just sending someone to your website because what I don't. I'm pretty sure you're seeing that where a chat bot pops up on the website and the, the AI is able to guide them through to the point to where they can get scheduled basically. Right. That's going to be huge. And I'm telling people right now and I've been telling my clients if you don't start thinking about integrating AI into your practice, you better start now because it's going to be a thing. Right. It's just, it makes timing and saves a lot of money. So. Yeah, but I was going to add on to manychat. So manychat is somewhere something similar to that. But they specifically are working with Instagram and you can actually set automations to go off and go through sequences with people. Right. With that. Right. So that's something that I actually have for one of my clients. If you want to go check it out. It's Crafted Wellness Rehab. Just go in there and send the, send this keyword, send plantar pla N T A R and it'll kick off the automation and you can go through the whole thing.
- [49:45]
A
What's that website again?
- [49:47]
B
It's his Instagram. So his Instagram is Crafted Wellness Rehab and then the website to actually do the chat is manychat.com yeah, they're the only, the only company that Instagram says it is okay to use for automation. The only one.
- [50:05]
A
Interesting.
- [50:05]
B
Yeah. Everything else, don't, don't do it. Just use them.
- [50:09]
A
I am, I am. I would always consider, I would consider myself someone that's slow to adapt to technology. Not. I think the main reason for is one, there's so much stuff that comes out, I don't ever know what's going to stick. So I'm always a little concerned about going down a path and spending a bunch of time and effort, energy and then finding out it's Periscope, you know where it's just like oh well this is. That was cool for a minute and then like every other platform started doing it and it just isn't interesting anymore. And so there's stuff like that the other element of it is with like AI and things of that nature is I'm not a fan of using technology for human experiences. And so if the technology is undermining the human experience then I don't like using it. I love using technology for the non human experience and I feel like the early versions of like chatbots and things of that nature was not helping the human experience. It's gotten better. And it's just now kind of getting to the point. Point where I'm going, okay, this seems to be kind of shifting, making a shift from not helping the human experience to helping the human experience. And so I think that that's probably going to be a this year thing for me personally is kind of looking into that more for my clients, for websites and things like that. But my initial hesitation was this is an annoyance to people because it's so bad, but it's. Everything's changing so fast that it's becoming good.
- [51:38]
B
Yeah. And it's funny that you say that because the. Manychat. I've used it before, and I stopped using it because I also did not like how crappy it was. Right. It just. It wasn't good. And like you said, now it's gotten to a point to where it's. It's doable. Right. And it doesn't ruin the experience.
- [51:58]
A
And it's not going to get worse. That's the thing. It really is going to get better. Like as this, like this time next year, it's going to be better.
- [52:05]
B
Yeah. You're not even going to be. Here's the sad part. You're not going to be able to tell if it's a human or not. Like, that's the thing, you know? So definitely dig into that because there's all kinds of AI solutions out there. I mean, I called the AI from my doctor's appointment. I didn't even know it was AI and they got it. They got me booked. Like, I was like, dude, like, is this, like, you could kind of hear it, but it's like, this sounds like a real person talking. King.
- [52:30]
A
Yeah.
- [52:30]
B
You know.
- [52:31]
A
Yeah.
- [52:31]
B
So it's getting to that point. Highly recommend. At least doing some digging in it.
- [52:38]
A
So let's. Let's do this. We'll wrap this up. Because I think what. Probably you and I are going to have to do another podcast at some point down the road. We'll just, we'll talk about other stuff because I've had. I've had a lot of fun the. Before we go, though, because I know you got something else you need to do if you want to. I'm just going to leave, like, the floor is yours if you want to let people know, like, where they can find you, where they can follow you, how they can get more information, what you have going on. Just kind of open. Open floor. Just whatever you want to say.
- [53:05]
B
Yeah, guys. So you can find me on Instagram. It's at. I'm shakur Smith. So I am as in mom and then Shakur S H A K U r Smith. Just send me a message. Just say, hey, you know, I heard you out on. I don't want to say Jerry on Rocket Cairo.
- [53:23]
A
Jerry's podcast is fine. Everybody, like, all right, all right. No one's gonna care.
- [53:29]
B
Yeah, yeah, I heard you on Jerry's podcast. You know, kind of interested in learning more, right? You could just message me and I'll be able to respond back. That's one of my main ways. If you want to email me, I don't know who emails anymore, but my email is shaqinstagrammastermind.com so just in case you still do emailing, you can reach out to me through there. And yeah, those are ways that you can get contact with, with me. So, yeah, I'll.
- [53:54]
A
I'll end it with. We'll wrap it all the way back around to the name. My actual given name is Gerald, and which is worse than Jerry. And no one calls me Gerald unless I'm in trouble. So that's usually my wife or my mom, and that is. That is it. So if Jerry wasn't bad enough, Gerald is. Is worse.
- [54:22]
B
So, well, if it. Dude, let me tell you this. My parents, my wife and my parents, if I do something that pisses them off or if I'm in trouble, they say my full name. They say, Shakur lashawn Smith. And I'm like, oh, okay.
- [54:37]
A
I think that's all parents, though. Like, my. We were talking about kids earlier and then we'll wrap this up because we're just. We're just wasting time now. My son, my number three, when he was probably. He was probably like four. And his older brother, who was a couple, he's two years older than him. He comes to me and my. My number three's name is Beckham. And my son comes to me and he says, beckham is upset because you used his full name. And I said, I'm upset that I had to use his full name. So if he starts listening, I'll stop using his full name, and then we can all be happy.
- [55:23]
B
That's hilarious, man. That is hilarious.
- [55:26]
A
Oh, but he said he was like 4 or 5 and he, like, his. His brother came in, the 6 year old came in to talk to dad because, like, he's upset you used his full name. Yeah, thanks. Thanks for helping me. Parent. Child.
- [55:41]
B
Our kids. Kids. Because I have kids too, you know. They're hilarious, man. They're hilarious, man. We gotta enjoy it.
- [55:49]
A
All right, man.
- [55:50]
B
Yeah.
- [55:50]
A
Hey, I'M gonna let you go. Thanks for being on the podcast. We'll do this again. We definitely will do this again. And I'll talk to you later. Okay?
- [55:58]
B
For sure. I appreciate you, man. Take care. Okay.
- [56:00]
A
Thanks, man.