B (3:37)

How did they even find this? Is this all come from the 2015 stuff? They just keep on looking into him or someone tipped him off or no.

A (3:47)

So a lot of how CCM is caught is they have this huge database where every CSAM picture, screenshot, thumbnail video is logged with a specific metadata code. And that code is then shared with all the local police stations and all of the Internet service providers. And so if anybody's device downloads or sends out one of those codes, even if they're using a VPN or whatever they try to do Dark web, it usually flags. So then law enforcement will get a flag in a specific area. Then they'll go to the ISPs, the Internet Service providers, and they'll bring a search warrant. They're like, we got a flag in this area? So we need all of the IP addresses so we can see whose it is. And then they usually come with an IP address and that leads to a physical location. And then they go to that police station in that jurisdiction and then they go and arrest. They work with the police station, but it's Homeland Security.

B (4:46)

So this wasn't related to everything that happened?

A (4:48)

No. Like no one was specifically looking into Joshua Duggar. Wow. So that actually is more terrifying because this is just like an off chance he got caught. Yeah, this is not. Oh, we've been building a case on him and this is the first time he's done something. So we're gonna get him. It's just. This is just like a coincidence.

B (5:08)

Wow.

A (5:09)

Yeah. The first problem is the evidentiary hearing. This is the day before the trial. There is a three hour hearing discussing whether or not Joshua's prior molestation of his sisters can be admissible. During the trial, Bobby Holt, Remember, Joshua was courting their daughter. She's wife of Jim Holt, also weird politician. She testified about finding out about the molestation. Jim Bob is also called into court, and his relationship with memory seems to be highly strategic. He largely states that he doesn't remember much. Jim Bob, the dad is like, I don't remember. It was just years and years ago, a long time ago. He's almost diminishing the severity of it. The court even states. The court found Mr. Duggar's selective lapse in memory to be not credible. He was obviously reluctant to testify against his son. It must run in the family because when Joshua was interviewed before his arrest, the way he responds to questions is eerily calm. He's just asking, you know, I guess I have, you know, quite a few questions about it, but I don't know how much can you divulge, But I'm just curious. You're saying there's images being uploaded or images being downloaded. The IP address from this had a lot of CCM associated to it in a peer to peer software program. He's like, well, I do have a peer to peer software program. So peer to peer means that you can transmit files without going through a third party, which would. It would be like unencrypted or something like that. I don't know. I don't use peer to peer software programs like that. Okay. Not that every time you use a peer to peer software program, you're doing something illegal. A lot of people do it because they just don't want to be surveilled. And a lot of people might need to do it because certain areas, the surveillance is, you know, you get it. But Josh is like, oh, yeah, I have that. And he just admits it very casually. Like, doesn't everyone? He's also like, also, I use Tor, which is how people access the dark Web, if you will. And he's like a Tor browser. We upload stuff for our cars and things like that. So he's like, I use the dark Web for our car dealership. I've had a friend of mine that came and set up, like, the file sharing so we could do more encrypted type stuff. He just said it was, like, safer that way. He got me into it to be safer. And then the agents are like, are you talking about Torrent or Tor? Cause those are very different things. And he's like, I don't know. I don't know anything. So what is the scope? Is like, what I'm trying to say. Is there something going on in my devices that there's, like, where there's been. Something's accessed or something's downloaded or something like that?

B (7:23)

Is this videotape or is this, like, audio?

A (7:26)

Mm. And the. The officers are like, well, that's what let us hear. He later says so casually, I mean, I don't want to say that I'm guilty or not of accessing inappropriate content at some point. Like, at any point in my life, which is crazy. I mean, I will say that I will Google some crazy things for cases, but I can definitively say to a cop, I have never accessed anything inappropriate in my lifetime. But he's like, I can't say, you know, for sure. I don't want to definitive. Like, I don't want to put that in the. You know what I mean? It's like, what do you mean? I think most people can definitively say that. Regardless, Joshua's history of molesting his sisters is allowed to be admitted into trial, but the pest does not give up during the trial. He tries to point the finger. His attorneys basically do the whole, this is a classic who done it? You know, who done it and downloaded the csam. Am I right? They even bring in people from Covenant's eyes to testify how the operating system only works on Windows, but Joshua went and got Linux. Linux, I don't know. To bypass any and all detection that the software could have. The password used was allegedly the same password Josh used for the family's Instagram account. So the same password that he used to hide the CCM is the same Instagram family account password. And then Josh and his attorneys try to suggest that a former employee who happened to be a sex offender probably did this. But they don't call him to the stand because the judge is like, well, what are you going to ask him when you call him to the stand? You can't just, like, point your finger at somebody and say, well, maybe it's them. Well, you're not allowed to bring up his previous connection if that's what you're trying to do. Like, you're not allowed to bring up the fact that he was a previous sex offender. Now, like, then don't bring him in. Which, I mean, the court, quote, surmises the only reason for calling him was to reveal his sex offense conviction to the jury. The defense also starts arguing that Joshua should be acquitted because there's no proof that he actually viewed the material. Quote, Mr. Duggar argues that the court should enter a judgment of acquittal as to both counts of conviction because the jury was not presented evidence sufficient to show he actually viewed any ctm. Basically saying that they need to show proof that he viewed it to establish needed convictions. And their last throw it at the wall and see if it sticks is the most nonsensical. Joshua Duggar is an Apple guy. There's no CSAM on any of his Apple devices because it's not his. During the trial, it stated multiple times the files that he was downloading were torture and depicted victims, invisible pain and screaming. One of the downloads was connected to Daisy's destruction. And the special agent that worked on this case testified that it was in top five of the worst. Worst that I've had to examine the

B (10:07)

defense or any conversation or investigation or anything about his kids.

A (10:15)

No. Yeah. Okay. The defense tried to argue that these statements should be excluded. They want to exclude any opinion by law enforcement officers that certain CCM images are considered worse than others. I guess they're trying to say worse is subjective. But the prosecutors, they bring in proof every time Josh would text his wife that he was going to be late from work or that he was being held up somewhere. Soon after, his computer would download videos of children. Additionally, through cell tracking towers, the prosecutors were able to prove that one, these videos were downloaded in the car lot outside of Joshua's workplace. And two, Joshua was the only one there at the time that he's downloading these files. And three, he's texting his wife that he's gonna be home late. Nobody else is there, not another employee, nobody. It's also revealed during the trial that Joshua would frequent Reddit snark pages. So a lot of people started calling him names for that reason.

B (11:09)

How did they find out about that?

A (11:11)

I think it was going through, like, the covenant eyes they were testifying of. Yeah. His Internet browser history.

B (11:17)

Oh, wow.

A (11:24)

Picture this. It is the end of a long week. You're unwinding in the tub, listening to your favorite true crime podcast, and then chronic hives come back again in the middle of the episode like what a wet blanket looks like. Another spell of itchy, swollen, red or skin colored hives. If you have chronic spontaneous urticaria, or csu, there may be a different treatment option. Worried about your chronic hives interrupting our next episode? Learn more@treatmyhives.com rotten when you're doing it all, you need all the electrolytes. The weather is heating up, and the best way to make it through those sweaty summers is Gatorade, which hydrate hydrates better than water itself. With new Gatorade Lower Sugar, you can get the amazing hydration you expect from Gatorade, but with no artificial flavors, sweeteners, or colors. With 75 less sugar and all the electrolytes of Gatorade Thirst Quencher, you'll be back at your best and ready to take on whatever comes your way. New to the fridge? All the Gatorade electrolytes you love? Try Gatorade Lower Sugar. Today, some of the best things come in layers, a cute haircut, wrapped presents, and our sponsor, new Tide Evo. The moment Tide Evo hits water, it instantly activates six concentrated cleaning layers to fight 100% of common stains, including grass and dirt. Each layer has a job tackling the mess from a different angle with scrubbers, pre treaters, brighteners and fresheners. Toss one in with your load and that's it. No scooping, no spilling, no squinting at a fill line and no mess. Just clean clothes. And I haven't even told you about my favorite part. Tide Evo is an easy swap you can make if you're trying to cut down on household waste. There are no fillers, no extra water, and no large plastic jugs. Tide Evo is lightweight, and it comes ready for the wash in a fully recyclable box. I've officially switched over to Tydivo for my laundry routine, and my clothes smell fresh. It's great with my sensitive skin, I've even been able to do a few loads with my whites and a little bleach and my white towels that survived a dog bath or two came out refreshed. When all those layers work together the way they're supposed to, there's nothing left to question. It's the same feeling as a case with no loose ends, where every detail has done its job. Try new Tight Hide Evo. Real laundry magic. He's obviously found guilty, but during sentencing, Michelle, of course, writes a letter to the judge asking leniency for her our son, our firstborn son. In short, it has everything that you expect it to have. She states that she wants to share information about Josh's character that may not be fully known to the court, which I think the court knows enough about Josh's character, but nevertheless, Josh has a tender heart and he's compassionate with others. If someone is having a difficult time, he is the first one to encourage or try to help them in a tangible way. Yet nobody's trying to lock him up for being a negative Nancy okay, he's a child predator. She's like, he's always positive. He's got a positive attitude. She says that Josh deserves leniency because he's been giving money to a widow friend of theirs for several years now and he's also great at work. Side note, he was downloading CSAM in the parking lot of his workplace. She continues, he has set a good example of applying himself eagerly to his work and in many other responsibilities he carries as a husband and father. We ask that he would be reunited with his wife and family in a timely manner. Thank you your honor for taking these thoughts into consideration. Anna Duggar has a brother in law so her sister married this guy and he is very big in the fundamentalist world. His name is David Waller and he is a senior pastor at the Fair Park Baptist Church. He writes a whole letter and that whole letter just goes on and on about how good of a person Josh Duggar is and why. It was Josh Duggar who offered to help me finish a large deck project for our in laws giving his time and money during Christmas week to complete a large deck with a handicap accessible ramp. It was his generosity and personal initiative that designed the cable railing system for the deck to keep everyone safe and allow wheelchair access to the Kellers family's double wide trailer home. He goes on to create like a laundry list of all the things Josh has helped with including decorating this pastor's laundry room. I didn't know interior design is like a sign of virtue. Then he continues that he once went on a road trip with Josh and his family and one of Josh's kids were misbehaving. Quote I listened as Josh Duggar stopped the vehicle, took his little one aside privately and lovingly and patiently talked with his child. I was in awe at the tone and love that he showed On a number of occasions. I've been in Josh Duggar's home for an overnight visit. I've observed him gather his children and read to them from the Holy Scriptures, the Bible. Then pray and then have some a beautiful time singing songs about Jesus while playing the piano. This is why I despise character witness statements when it comes to crimes against children. You feel safe around him. Great. He's also nice to elderly people Great. He loves cats because that's not the demographic he's abusing. His victims are children, not you. A full grown adult. And how helpful he is with the porch renovation will never offset the crimes that he committed against children. I just don't understand. The prosecutors have responded really critically of the character letter stating that none of them, zero of them, addressed Josh's actual crimes or the victims. May 25, 2022. Joshua Duggar is sentenced to 151 months, 12 and a half years in federal prison, followed by 20 years of supervised release with the condition that he is not permitted to have unsupervised contact with minors, including his own children. He cannot have a computer and he definitely cannot have any explicit material on his computer of any kind, even the legal ones. The judge even states, this is some sick stuff. After the conviction, Jim Bob and Michelle state to I don't know who. Okay. The entire ordeal has been very grievous. Today, God's grace through the love and prayers of so many has sustained us. Our hearts and prayers are with anyone who has ever been harmed through csam. In the days ahead, we will do all we can to surround our daughter in law, Anna and her children with love and support. As parents, we will never stop praying for Joshua and loving him as we do with all our children and each of life's circumstances. We place our trust in God. Thank you for your prayers. Who are you saying that to? It's just, it's blasphemous. Okay. A federal agent also says possessing and viewing CSAM is not a victimless crime. Every time it's downloaded or shared, it perpetuates the trauma and re victimizes the child. They're all acting like this is some victimless crime. In fact, they're acting like Joshua is the victim of the crime and all. While this is happening, Jim Bob randomly decides to run for the Arkansas State Senate. He announces his run a few weeks before Josh's trial kickstarts and he says now more than ever, we need a bold voice that is pro family, pro business, pro gun and pro life. It's time for conservatives to demand courageous leadership that puts Arkansas families, jobs and our constitutional liberties first.

B (18:29)

What in the world is happening?

A (18:30)

Yeah. He also does his favorite thing that a lot of right wing politicians and influencers do when they're caught up in actual federal crime. Cancel culture and the radical left want to keep us from being involved in politics. No, we want that because your son is committing crimes against children. How is that pro family or pro life? He says I will not allow the liberal left, social media, or fake news to define me and my family. The liberals scream it's my body when they want to end the life of an unborn child, but would gladly force mandatory vaccines upon everyone without hesitation.

B (19:01)

So you think he ran just to.

A (19:03)

Nobody knows, like, nobody. Some people think he ran to take the news off of Joshua Duggar, that this is even more shocking that he's running, that it'll diminish the shock ability of the trial. Other people think that he just, like, doesn't care about any of his kids.

B (19:19)

I see.

A (19:21)

Yeah.

B (19:22)

Crazy.

A (19:23)

Yeah. I think that he should go stuff his face with the Tater Tot casserole and stop being such a demonic presence in everybody's lives. But unsurprisingly, he loses. And the Duggar story continues. About five weeks before the guilty verdict, Anna Duggar gives birth to their seventh child, Madison. And everyone had hoped that the Duggars would not make the headlines anymore, but they do, with two more arrests, all involving children between 2021 to 2026, a lot is happening. Even between 2015 to 2026, even more has happened, and I just need to get everybody caught up. Several of the Duggar children have publicly distanced themselves from the church and their parents. The church being the teachings of iblp, Bill Gothard. Bill Gothard, in my humble opinion, is, like, certified insane. And I mean zero offense to it. I grew up in a religious house, so I grapple with some level of religious trauma, and I still think that religion is an insanely beautiful thing. And I cast no judgment on anybody who is religious. But Bill Gothard makes my brain melt. He, in my opinion, ran a cult. Perhaps my definition of a cult is different from anybody else, but just from my limited research, I think that he was running a cult. And apparently Bill Gothard would do this thing where if there is a stain on the carpet, he wanted young women in the church to get on their hands and knees and clean the stains out of the carpets with a rag or a spoon. So someone who used to work at the main church, he thought the stains were the problem, right? So he goes ahead and he cleans the carpet with industrial cleaner to get out all the stains. And like the young woman, they would always be complaining because their backs were, you know, aching from all the cleaning the carpet, which rightfully. And so they're so happy to. Which, quote, Gothard visited the center and was livid to no girls cleaning by hand. He ordered the center leadership staff to round some girls up to start cleaning it was something that Gothard just wanted to see. He didn't care that I would come at night and industrially clean the carpet and get rid of all the stains. He wanted to see girls on their hands and knees scrubbing with rags and spoons. And I think that it was maybe a recruiting tactic. I imagine very specific types of people would walk in with their wives and their children and think, now this is a good God fearing church. This is the type of example I want to set in my family. And the Duggar family were very, very close with Bill Go. And they followed his teachings quite literally to a T. Such as Bill Gothard would state. When a young person listens to rock music like a rock song, even a Christian rock song, they give Satan a little square in their soul. The soul is depicted like a chessboard. And you give up one of those squares to Satan. He's playing chess with his soul and we're just trying to survive in this economy. He's also racist in my opinion. Okay, Jesus Christ. Nobody is more seasoned to cyst happy than a religious cult leader. But I feel he is racist and that's why he hates rock music. His teachings read to the delinquency of minors. The characteristic offbeat in today's rock music has been traced to the satanic rituals in the jungles of West Africa. It was this type of drumbeat which certain tribe members were specifically trained for in order to open the people to demonic control. So you can't listen to rock music, but you also can't be a whore. And Bill Gothard's definition of a whore is showing a shoulder. If any sort of assault or bad thing happens to a woman, it's because a woman was showing a shoulder and leading men astray.

B (22:37)

But is being pedophile okay with him?

A (22:40)

That is natural curiosity, my friend.

B (22:43)

I see.

A (22:44)

Just kidding. I'll try to get another one. Okay. One leader of the IBLP teaching states the problem is that men have a problem with their eyes. The solution is to avoid eye traps. The shorter the skirt, the more vicious the trap. So the solution, right. If you were to tell me that all men have a problem with their eyes, which is not what I'm saying at all. But if that were the case, then. And the most logical solution would be to blindfold all men or gouge out their eyes. That would make more sense in her logic, if that's the real problem. But instead she says it's the woman's fault. They have in the wisdom booklet, which is their teachings, pictures of women wearing various different outfits. And people are forced to ask, can you identify the eye traps in these pictures? What could you do to alter them? But maybe it's not what you're wearing. Maybe it's that little eye twitch thing you do, like, you know, the spasm of the muscle in the eye. But they consider that winking. And only whores wink. Yeah, you can't wink. It's a very whorish thing to do. And quote, those who fall to her whoredom are stripped of resources and vibrancy of life. And what do whores get? Crabs. Crabs, quote, the public lice, often called the crab, is only one of several parasites which can be transmitted through immorality. I mean, the logic is sound if you have the genetic makeup of a russet potato. They've also said some other controversial things, such as the abortions in America. Right? Right now, there is currently a baby holocaust. Bill Gothard states, the one who has made porn popular in America has done more damage to America than 100 Hitlers. Ginger Duggar has since left IBLP and denounced Bill Gothard's teachings. And she says, I remember a story being told to me of a young man who died in a car accident because he was listening to rock music and somebody in the car turned on even Christian music with drums. And I would think, like, we're gonna die for sure. We're gonna get into a car accident and we're gonna die. And I would be shaking in the backseat crying. Jill says that whenever she wore pants, that was seen as a small act of independence. And quote, anyone who is making decisions for themselves that the parents don't give their blessing, that is seen as rebellious. One former member of the IBLP says girls were taught that boys were almost unable to control their lust. It was our responsibility to help them control it by dressing modestly. And if we didn't, we just got what we had coming to our us. One victim of IBLP says that when a man shows up in your life and decides he wants you, it's not up to you to say no. If you don't want him back, you have to come to terms with it, because this is surely what God wants for you. Dangerously, the wisdom booklet teaches that in the event of unfaithfulness in the marriage, quote, allow for divorce and or remarriage is basically destroying someone's relationship with Christ and the church. An article on the IBLP's website reads, Serve and appeal to your husband. And it gives these, like, short biblical references, but it reads, you must ask God for a plan on how you can serve your king in order to gain his heart and present your appeal. They talk about a woman named Esther from the book. It was from the place of service that Esther was able to make her appeal. As she served the king, she gained his attention. He was now ready to listen to her heart. And whoever is writing this article is a woman and she writes this area is a challenge for me. I tend to serve my children before my husband. To be honest, most of the time I'm so busy that my home becomes like a self service gas station for everyone which isn't good. Once again ask the Lord what you can do to serve your husband as Esther did. Ladies fast, pray, cry out to the Lord, surrender to him and serve your husband. Now the mind boggling aspect of this is it's written under an article focusing on what to do if your husband is not sorry for having an affair. Are whoa or an IBL peace be quote what can I do if my husband is not repentant over moral failure? I mean clearly this is not a safe space for women. With one former member saying there was never hey what do you want? It was always God wants this and if you don't like it you need to submit and be broken. People ask me why I stayed. I was isolated with no one to help me leave. I was brainwashed into believing God would hurt me if I didn't do everything I was told to do. And unfortunately Bill Gothard has been accused of essay by like 30 women and I could just do another multi part series on Bill Gothard because is he still he has stepped down from the IBLP church but I don't know how much money he made off with. At one point IBLP was like a $90 million institution. But with that said, I mean some Duggars have remained religious but just not following Bill Gothard. Others have spoken up, some have been vocal, others have found themselves in other scandals of their own. So I'm just going to run you through the major Scand Jaina ends up getting charged with child endangerment. Nobody knew what was going on. There were all sorts of theories circulating because now Duggar and child endangerment, it seems synonymous with one kind of thing. And Jana makes an online statement. I'm only sharing this because the media has been having a field day with it, all the raw facts. I was babysitting a few months ago when one of the children wandered outside alone. A passerby who saw the child called the police. This resulted in a written citation as well as a follow up with child welfare, who concluded that it was an accident and the child was unharmed. They recognized it was a case of a child slipping out of the house when you turn your back for a moment. It all happened so quickly. It was so scary. I'm grateful for law enforcement and those who protect and serve our community. I was certainly never arrested, like some may have implied. In the end, I was just upset at myself that this happened at all, but so thankful it all ended safely. And that's truly what mattered the most to me. Then you have Jill and Derek. They have been the most outspoken about the Duggar family and everything that they've been through. They've also had their fair share of critics online. They went through a missionary phase where a lot of people said that they just, like, kind of played White Savior. So they would go into different countries, and they recount stories of how they would treat their bathroom as the safe room. And there's this one incident where they hear this huge metal clanking. They rush Jill into the bathroom. Derek is ready to fight. Jill is messaging her family to pray. Turns out a shower rack fell down. But, you know, it could have been one of the terrifying pocs out there.

B (29:00)

Basically, what is happening?

A (29:04)

Okay, this is maybe, like, the nuance of it is lost because I grew up in a church that would do missions, and a lot of it just turns into Americans going into countries, typically in South America, Central America, and then acting terrified for their godforsaken lives, even though they are the ones that fucking wanted to go there in the first place. But they're acting so terrified, like, oh, my God, how can I be here? My life is at risk, and then they're saving people at the same time? I don't know how they do that. How do you be so terrified of the country that you're going into and then save people at the same time who don't even need to be fucking saved?

B (29:45)

Okay, that makes sense. I get it now.

A (29:47)

Yeah. So, like, all these stories that they're sharing is really riling people up because it's like, you were that dramatic over a shower rack that fell down. Yeah. Like, what were you expecting, pocs to break in? And what. What. Like, what is the stigma that you have in your head? What are they gonna do? They also, like, do multiple episodes where they go on missionaries, and they just talk about they're terrified for their lives. Like, they could die at any moment. And I'm like, right. Are you? Like, what's happening? Derek is also deeply, deeply transphobic. I don't know if that's present past. But he was, to a very high degree. He literally targeted a young 16 year old girl, a transgender girl named Jazz Jennings, stating transgender is a myth. Gender is not fluid. It's ordained by God. A lot of people had their flabbers gassed by that tweet, because technically you could argue that God is a myth. I'm not saying that's what I think. I'm just saying read the room a little before you start tweeting some weird nonsense. He also just, like, continues to bully and misgender Jazz Jennings for no apparent reason other than being a giant transphobic person. Also, I will say, as someone who grew up in the south, in a very religious area, going to church all the time, I can to some degree have some level of understanding for people who grow up in these bigoted spaces that then believe these things because they are instilled with fear and all of these other tactics to manipulate children at a young age to believe these things until they become an adult. But I just don't think he was 28, bullying a 16 year old girl. Like, this is not like he's 16 and talking to other kids his age. He was 28 years old bullying a 16 year old girl. He also stated that Planned Parenthood was a hate group and he celebrated a baker who refused to make a wedding cake for a gay couple. They have since. They haven't.

B (31:40)

These are all on Twitter.

A (31:42)

Yeah.

B (31:42)

Wow.

A (31:43)

He hasn't necessarily apologized formally, but. But they've kind of like, in subtle ways, walked back a lot of their views. They've stated that they have a ton of friends now who are not Christian and are even part of the LGBTQ community. They say even if you disagree, you can still respect and be friends with someone. And I just think. I hate that. I hate that so much. Why are you disagreeing about someone else's existence? Like, you shouldn't have a fucking opinion? Like, what does that mean? Like, I disagree that you're a real person, that you can't do that. It's just not rooted in logical. Anyway, they also start saying that, well, everyone's a sinner anyway, so I don't know if you can really call that. Like, they're standing firm that being gay is kind of a sin. So there's a lot to unpack there. Yeah. And like I said, I think with a lot, maybe of the younger Duggars, it's easier to give, not leeway. No excuses, but I think they're too damn old. Like, I don't. You could Argue. Well, I grew up in this type of situation where this was normalized. You're too damn old to be doing this. Yeah, yeah. Like, especially with the Internet these days. Get online, watch a video, go help yourself. Get a therapist. You're so damn weird. Jessa. There is a situation on Instagram where she had posted where she went to the Holocaust Museum. Within 200 words, she's able to express that the Holocaust Museum was depressing and sobering, which everybody agrees with. But then she goes to on to somehow state that racism is because of evolutionary theory, and she ignores the fact that the Holocaust was the result of a deeply Christian nation, but then turns it around to say that we need to be the voice for those who cannot speak up pro life. Then it's revealed. So because. And you know what? I think there's just so much with the Duggars, like, there are some people who have a level of understanding for them because maybe they also grew up in very strict religious environments where this was taught to you. And so you almost go down that route. But I think as an adult, there's really no excuse to self educate. But also when you are so vocal, you're going to get shit thrown back at you. Like, if you're throwing shit at other people, you're going to expect it's going to get thrown back at you. And this is why this becomes a whole topic. So it is uncovered that Jessa underwent a medical procedure which is called a dnc. And if you want to be very technical in the medical sense, it is technically an abortion. Jessa and Michelle have made some really offensive comments comparing abortion to the Holocaust, calling it the baby Holocaust. And Jessa has responded online writing, women have DNCs for many reasons, not all of which involve killing a living human being. My baby's heart had stopped beating three weeks before I had a D and C. Each person is created in the image of God, Genesis 1:27. And to purposefully destroy a baby in the womb is an affront to the God who created that life. There's a world of a difference between someone dying and someone being killed. To equate one to the other, and to a mother grieving the loss of her baby, no less, is severely distasteful. There is a world of a difference between a mortician and a murderer. Even a child understands the difference between the two. So a lot of people started dragging her about the dnc. And I mean, you. I don't know, you could just argue like, oh, should we have come at a woman in her time of grief, of losing a fetus, or she kind of deserved it. I don't know. It's up to you. And then Ginger and her husband Jeremy have come out publicly against Bill Gothard, and they have joined a different denomination in Christianity that some also liken to a cult, with a lot of people believing that Ginger traded in one cult for another. Her husband has also gotten into a little bit of trouble. He is an ex soccer player with a criminal history. He was drunk and he tried to assault a cop. He was not successful. So the officers were like, you're drunk. Get your shit together. And then he grabbed one of the cops arms in a forceful manner. He was arrested, but he's now like a pastor. And he says very weird things, like there's a reality show about a family in California or something, and they've got all these kids and whatever, it's a show, but one of the Little Boys was 5 years old and decided he didn't want to be a boy anymore, but now he really wants to be a girl. And so the parents say, okay, well, if you're a girl, you're a girl. So they go along with it. Well, that is a sign that the child is ruled. The child is. The parents have no discipline over the child or no instruction of what's wrong and right. It's just whatever you feel, you do. And now you've got a child who's barely come to the cognitive understanding of the world the last couple of years, determining that how they were created is wrong, and they're gonna redo that. How do you lead as a parent? Then he says, biblically mandated discipline has absolutely no physical consequence to the child, and it's to drive the foolishness from them. And it's called abuse in our day. He also goes on to, like, do a whole weird Instagram video about Kanye's new album, Jesus is King. He says he listened to the whole album and he saw messages from people saying like, oh, well, Jesus would never save Kanye because Kanye is still the same filthy sinner that he's always been, which he believes is wrong because Jesus forgives all.

B (36:54)

What's. What's his whole thing about? There's a reality show and yeah, he's

A (36:59)

just transphobic as well.

B (37:00)

Well, oh, that, that, that. That little story means nothing. Like the whole family. And then the reality.

A (37:06)

No. And like, he's like, he is also doing a lot of logical fallacies of being like, here's a five year old basically declaring that they're transgender when they don't Even know what that means. But probably it was, I would imagine, maybe the five year old is like, I actually like wearing dresses and I don't like playing with toy cars. And he's all like. Like, darn transgender people. That's the vibe that I get. Jedediah. This one right here, huh? He runs for office in Arkansas State Representatives, 2020 standard platform. He's just like pro life, pro gun, pro religion. In his Vote for me video, he says, hello, District 89, this is Jed Duggar running to be your next state representative. I'm a Christian, and I will stand up for your religious liberties. I'm pro life, and I will be an advocate for the unborn, and I will always defend our second Amendment with your prayer, support and help. I look forward to serving you as a strong conservative voice in Little Rock. He gets like, he. They wipe the floor with him. He goes up against a Democrat, Megan Godfrey. And this is like Arkansas is usually the parts they're from are very conservative and mostly Republican. I mean, Meghan Godfrey flipped her seat Democratic in, I think it was like 20 years that a Republican held that seat. She flipped it for the first time in 20 years.

B (38:33)

Really?

A (38:34)

Yeah.

B (38:35)

How so? Just.

A (38:36)

She's just really good fucking competent. She's like a PhD. She has a master's degree. I think she was a teacher. She just knows what she's talking about. And you know what he does to this accomplished woman? He calls her Liberal Princess. And he starts doing all these ads of like, are we really gonna vote for Liberal Princess? Over. And then so the Democrats are like, hey, Bunk Bed Jed, why don't you shut the fuck up? So they call him Bunk Bed Jed because as he's running for office, he's still sharing a bunk bed with his brother Jeremiah. I don't know if it was Jeremiah, but it was somebody.

B (39:10)

What?

A (39:10)

Yeah. And he knows nothing about anything. It's like, empty up here. So. Yeah. And then in 2026, like a few months ago, Anna Duggar has finally come back online. So she was largely gone from the public eye after Joshua Duggar's arrest and conviction later in 2022, she is now breeding golden retrievers in her backyard and posting on social media again. Netizens don't really know how to feel about her. Some people think again, you're too damn old to be doing this, and you have children. And I will say, it is always a parent and not a mom. And like, I think it's always thrust upon the mom, but it is also a dad's duty. It is always a parent's duty to protect their own children. So that type of critic, criticism, I think is warranted. But some people are just conflicted on whether they despise or not. Anna Duggar, one comment reads. I just think this is all around sad, maybe even a bit tragic in regards to Anna. Like, she married this guy so young, and I remember the courting and early marriage stuff, and she was just so happy and it was cringy and culty and weird. But there she was, marrying into fundamentalist Christian royalty and getting away from her family. She was like, really all in on this. She believed in this. She was excited for this. The only time these girls get to feel special in their lives is when they court, marry and have babies. And now what does she have to show for it? What can she do? Choking on the Kool Aid as much as she is now with all these kids, she is utterly and helplessly dependent on the Duggars. When you're that brainwashed, there's no moment when the penny drops and you're free. Freedom can also suck. It's unfamiliar, scary, and expensive. People also believe the Duggars will do everything they can to make her stay. They'll put so much pressure on her until she's metaphorically pinned to the ground and paralyzed by the crush Anna is responsible for. Protecting her tragically means something different to her than to us. It's likely Anna believes it is her fault for not being joyfully available and that at least with the Duggar empire's help, she can clothe and feed her children. And even when Joshua Duggar comes out, he will not be able to have unsupervised visits with any minor children, including his own. We don't know if that's why she's staying or if she genuinely just still loves Joshua Duggar after.

B (41:17)

I mean, when he comes out. Out. None of them will be minors.

A (41:20)

No, they will. So she gave birth to Madison during the trial. Yeah. Yeah.

B (41:24)

Oh, oh, oh. How long he gets? Thirteen years.

A (41:27)

Twelve.

B (41:27)

Twelve. Oh, that's right.

A (41:29)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Twelve and a half. Wow.

B (41:31)

That is actually crazy.

A (41:33)

Yeah. Yeah. If you've ever felt like wine is too complicated or snobby, Stella Rosa is here to change the game. It's a perfect semi sweet, semi sparkling Italian wine that's just fun. It's the kind of drink that turns an ordinary Wednesday into a mini celebration. Whether you're solo or with your friends, it will become your go to when you want the evening to feel more interesting. And there's the sparkling Moscato Diassi. It's your instant refresh button. Crisp, fizzy, totally effortless. It's the sip that feels like a deep breath and a fresh start. Personally, I love Stella Rosso because they're a wine that doesn't take themselves too seriously. The Stella Rosso red berry. New favorite of mine. Just sweet enough with a gentle sparkle that just makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside. So consider this your final piece of evidence you need to conduct your own investigation. The full case file for every last flavor is waiting for you@Stellarosa.com or begin your interrogation at any local retailer. Get a bottle or two in front of you. Compare the profiles. I promise the conclusion will be deliciously obvious. Must be 21 plus. Please drink responsibly. This episode is brought to you by Opill, the first ever over the counter daily birth control pill available in the uk US Opill is a daily birth control pill that's FDA approved, full prescription strength and estrogen free. Plus there's no prescription needed. Finally, the days of needing a prescription for birth control are over. Take control of your health and your reproductive journey. Find Opill online and at most major retailers. This is a paid ad by BetterHelp. Inflation, taxes, wages, the market. I mean these are all financial stressors that lots of people face, especially with tax season right on our heels. But financial stress isn't just a money problem, it's an emotional one and it deserves real support. That is where BetterHelp comes in. BetterHelp connects people with fully qualified therapists who can help you manage the emotional weight on your shoulders. Getting started is really straightforward. A short questionnaire matches you with a therapist based on your specific needs so you're not left scrolling through profiles or left to fend for yourself as you begin your therapy journey. With over 12 years of experience and an industry leading match rate, Betterheld typically gets it right the first time and if it ever doesn't feel like the right fit you, you can switch at any time, no questions asked. More than 6 million people around the world have used better help, supported by a network of over 30,000 fully qualified therapists. If financial stress is weighing on you, help is closer than you think. When life feels overwhelming, therapy can help. Sign up and get 10% off@betterhelp.com rotten that's better h lp.com rotten. And then it happens again. March 18, 2026 Joseph Duggar is arrested and everybody loses their mind. Like I think you know in 2015 when this was happening with Joshua Duggar and Then later in 2021 I think most of this news, it did become mainstream news, but it really stayed within this Duggar universe of people who religiously followed the Duggars. And I don't mean that pun intended, but with this 2026 arrest, people are starting to feel like, okay, there is like something very nefarious happening, maybe not even just in this family, but in the iblp. Like people need to look into everything. The charges stem from events that allegedly happened in 2020. It is alleged that in 2020, during a family vacation in Panama City Beach, Florida, Joseph allegedly repeatedly suggests that this nine year old girl sit on his lap.

B (45:13)

Who's this girl?

A (45:15)

We don't know. Some people have made guesses. I would not. Yeah, he had her sit next to him on the couch, covered her with a blanket and rubbed her thighs and grazed her private parts. She finally tells her dad about it as a 14 year old girl. So in 2026, she's like, dad, this is what happened to me. Her father confronts Joseph and he confesses, allegedly to the dad. And this is when the dad calls the police. The police are like, call Joseph again and have him admit it while we're listening, listening. Allegedly, he acknowledges his actions once more. The next day he is arrested. This comes as a huge shock to most people because Joseph has always been known as the quieter, nicer brother. He was relatively low key up until all of this. He's also publicly condemned his older brother Joshua for his actions. So people on the family website, you know, Joseph's page just reads, I recently finished my real estate broker's license and I've enjoyed getting to work in the real estate industry. We've also been building houses to sell. I love getting to work outside with my hands. So people are like, what is happening? And I think it's so reminiscent of the crimes that Joshua Duggar committed against his own sisters that people are starting to wonder what's going on. Does everybody just know that this is a thing that's happening? And then Jim Bob's previous remarks about how this is like, a lot of families go through this. So a lot of people online are speculating if Joseph's wife Kendra knew what was going on and if she did, why didn't she turn him in? A lot of people who have been following the Duggar universe, I guess they have been pinpointing when Kendra had stopped posting online on Instagram, she took a break. And people are wondering if maybe she took a break around that time in 2020, 2021, because of everything that was going on in her private Life. Like, maybe she found out about it then. But if she found out about it, then why didn't she go to the police? Is it the same thing that Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar have been doing where they don't go to the police for crimes against children? And alarmingly, they have four children together. And then two days after Joseph Duggar's arrest, Kendra Duggar is arrested and people are like, okay, that means she knew about it. Right.

B (47:14)

What is going on?

A (47:15)

She's actually arrested for a completely different charge. Four counts of child endangerment and false imprisonment. And it's actually a lot. I think there is initially there was some relief that she was not arrested for similar crimes as Joseph Duggar or for participating or co. Conspiring to let him get away with it. But. But it's bad. Locks were found on the outside of the children's bedrooms doors. That is the same thing.

B (47:42)

That's what Jim Bob did, right?

A (47:43)

Yes. When?

B (47:45)

On tlc, on the TV show.

A (47:49)

Well, not on the TV show, but he did that to prevent Josh. Yes. So she had that. And that leads a lot of questions and people.

B (47:59)

Why exactly?

A (48:02)

Because it's not safe and it's illegal. Actually. That's why she's arrested, because in the event of a fire, I mean, you can't lock your kids in a room. Right.

B (48:11)

Is that. Is that the only thing they found? Just lost?

A (48:15)

Yes, so far. Well, so far sounds presumptuous, like. Like I'm insinuating she's committed other crimes. Just.

B (48:23)

Yes, but how did that even come about?

A (48:25)

Because they searched his house.

B (48:27)

Oh, and then they found locks.

A (48:29)

Yes.

B (48:30)

So she got arrested for that.

A (48:32)

Both of them have been released from custody. Both of them are not allowed around their children. Joseph's next court date is April 20th. Kendra's is April 29th. And a little bit about Kendra before we get into the jailhouse calls. Okay. Kendra is the daughter of a pastor. She's one out of nine children. Her dad in 2014 distributed pan pamphlets claiming that there are no such things as homosexuals. And when people are like, why the hell did you do that? He said that it was merely him trying to spread love. I don't know what his definition of love is. And also during Kendra and Joseph's wedding, Kendra's dad just keeps telling Kendra that she reminds him so much of his wife, AKA Kendra's mom. And it was just like, so repeatedly. Not the sweet, like, oh, you have your mother's eyes. But, like, why do you keep saying that? It was just weird. They have four children together that Kendra is not allowed to see right now. And then all of this is just blowing up in March of 2026. And then it gets crazier because emails in jail, calls are released. In emails between Joseph and his family members, Anna Duggar, Joshua Duggar's wife, makes an appearance. She lets Joseph know that they're all praying for him and that she deposited money into his commissary account. And then, quote, just remember, don't talk about anything legal unless you're with an attorney. Everything said in these messages, phone calls and video chats are recorded and turned over to prosecutors. Joshua's experience at Washington County Jail was fairly safe. Anna talks about Kendra writing an email to Joseph. She loves you so much and she was strong during our call. Except when she mentioned it would be a month before she could see the kids. My heart aches for all of you. I believe she will prevail in the end. It may just take some time. Kendra is an extraordinary woman. God's grace shines through her. She is truly a treasure. Praying for you. You love ya. Anna.

B (50:17)

Is Anna the only one?

A (50:19)

No. A lot of other people are writing

B (50:20)

emails like family members.

A (50:23)

Kendra writing emails.

B (50:24)

That is crazy because you know, your husband committed these crimes and here's Joseph who's potentially, you know, like, how, how could you.

A (50:37)

Yeah, I think it's. The terrifying thing is it's become so normalized in certain communities that doing this. Okay. For Joshua it was normalized of natural curiosity of a young boy. I don't know what logic they're using for Joseph that's. But this is truly just another way that certain communities, and I'm not saying all fundamentalist Christians or Christians or anyone with faith based religion. I'm just saying like there are certain groups of people that will use, use religious text and genuinely good faith based findings to just victimize women and children and that's it. Like I. Oh. And then in another email, Anna Duggar writes to Joseph. I'm praising God that we started getting closer to you guys within the last year and a half. He knew that Kendra was going to need help. We will and are helping her.

B (51:31)

What?

A (51:32)

Yeah. Jim Bob is emailing Joseph. Joseph, I'm so sorry for what you're going through, mom, and I love you very much. Looks like you have a road ahead of you, but God will get you through. You have made some terrible decisions, but God has already forgiven you if you have asked him. You are just going to have to accept this situation at this point. And it's also fine to Pray that God would have mercy on you, but you're probably going to face major consequences for several years to come. And he also insinuates that he should make lemonade out of lemons. Then there are phone calls between Joseph and Kendra Duggar where Kendra tells him that she has an attorney for her. And. And, you know, he also has an attorney. He complains that he's been in solitary confinement. He's not really sleeping well through the night, but it's good to hear Kendra's voice. I will say listening to these phone calls is so odd. It's just odd.

B (52:20)

Is it, like. Just feels illegal to hear that?

A (52:23)

No, it's just the way they talk. Okay. So, first of all, I can't imagine anyone talking to their spouse who has been charged with. With a crime like that in the way that Kendra is talking to Joseph. Joseph. And it feels so distant and formal.

B (52:42)

You think that's how they usually talk?

A (52:44)

I think so. He's giving her. He is giving her religious advice, and she's like, praise the Lord. And I'm like, what the is happening?

B (52:53)

Yeah. Yeah. What is he saying?

A (52:55)

Like, he's like, how. He's reading psalms, and it's really getting him through. They have, like, a light moment where they talk about how Kendra mentions multiple times that she can't eat, she can't stomach anything. Everyone is worried about her because she can't eat and she needs energy, but, like, she just can't eat, and she's frail and she's weak. Right. And Joseph Duggar didn't give a fuck. He does not give a flying fork about Kendra Duggar. I'm just gonna say that right now. And I hope Kendra is listening to people that are telling her that too, because. And he almost sounds annoyed that she keeps mentioning this. He's like, well, you gotta eat. I was reading psalms.

B (53:34)

Wow.

A (53:35)

And she just keeps bringing it up, bringing it up, bringing it up. And he's just like, yeah, I'm having a hard time eating, too. And then they joke about how they're both gonna lose weight, and they're like, ha, ha. Kendra says that she's being taken care of by Joseph's family, and quote, I just sometimes start crying because I know God's been so good. I've been writing down some of the things that I'm thankful for that we've gotten. I was thinking about our vacation we got to do as a family and our trip before. So I'm just trying to write down all of that today. He keeps preaching to her about how to listen to God, let God's voice take over and read the book of Psalms. Psalms, yeah. And she says that she's just like, yeah, yeah. And there is this point that people have a huge. A lot of people online have brought it up, but she says that she's working through the list that he gave her on his iPad, and she's trying to coordinate how to get his phone out of custody. Because when you get booked into jail, they take it into custody so that she can go through his phone. So a lot of people are concerned that she's trying to delete evidence further. Jail conversations. Talk about how she's getting passwords. I'm assuming to, like, banking and business stuff. But. But they could be the same thing. They could be different things. We don't know. But a lot of people, I think just from the recollection of what happened with Joshua, there's concern that something is happening there. Yeah. But nothing. Nothing is as blasphemous as Joshua Duggar's statement through his attorney when Joseph Duggar is arrested. The attorney says that Josh said that the allegations against Joseph have deeply saddened him and that Joshua understands. Understands the stigma of being accused. He lives with the painful reality of how false accusations can destroy a life. He understands how the targeting of a person for publicity can twist the truth into sensationalized fiction. Calm down. You are not that famous. You are not targeted. And that is currently where we are with the Duggars. We're waiting for their court dates later in this month of April, and we're just gonna see where we go from. From there. But I think this is kind of.

B (55:44)

So this is gonna be. It could be really, really bad, right?

A (55:48)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

B (55:50)

I. I find it a little shocking that Kendra is just, like, arrested. Yes, it is very bad that you are locking, but I feel like if Kendra could have been. Oh, no, Joseph put the lock on or something. I don't know. What, do you think it made them charge her that quickly? Do you feel like there's more things? Things?

A (56:10)

No, I think.

B (56:10)

You think that's it.

A (56:11)

Yeah.

B (56:11)

There's lock on the door.

A (56:13)

Yeah. I think you would charge both parents immediately because it's just like that. Illegal.

B (56:19)

Right. Okay.

A (56:19)

You know, I mean, I think maybe

B (56:22)

because that is true.

A (56:23)

Yeah.

B (56:24)

Why would they do something like that? So abnormal?

A (56:27)

Because, I mean, my sister even had to watch out for the locks in the door when the kids were young because they would lock themselves in a room. So to have a lock outside the room is just.

B (56:39)

Okay. Right. So what's going like, yeah, I guess something's going on in this house.

A (56:43)

Yeah. And it's not safe. Like, you cannot be alone. Like, Kendra cannot be alone with her kids anymore. I don't even think she can see her kids right now until April 29th. I think there will be another judgment. But, yeah, something really dark is going on. And I imagine that it was not because, you know, like, maybe you could argue there's like a lock that locks from both sides. I'm imagining it was, like, very clear as day for the officers what that

B (57:06)

lock else wrote letters or emailed Joseph and Kendra in the family. Do you know?

A (57:11)

It was mainly them. A lot of the others have spoken out. I mean, interestingly enough, Jill said that she learned about Joseph's arrest through the media. She did not know from her parents. And so a lot of siblings have spoken out publicly that they are condemning what Joseph has done.

B (57:29)

Oh.

A (57:29)

Or some of them have given slightly more pr. Friendly remarks, like, you know, victims. My heart breaks. Can't believe it. But, like, not definitive. Like, oh, my God, fuck that guy. Fuck my brother. You know.

B (57:45)

So Anna is supporting.

A (57:46)

Yeah, Jim Bob, Michelle, and Kendra is very much supporting her husband in this.

B (57:54)

Interesting.

A (57:55)

I just.

B (57:56)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

A (57:57)

A lot of people are having a hard time swallowing all of this, and I think there will probably be more that comes out as time passes. But. But what are your thoughts on this case? I feel like nobody. I feel that the Duggar family has. Their arrest recently has caused a lot more eyes into even the past of all the Duggar family members. And I think it's just there's such a high barrier of entry to get to know the family's entire digital footprint and lore because there's just so much information out there. And all of that information. I mean, I was even scared to research this case because. Because with a case like this, of course you're gonna have opinions from people who grew up parasocially with the family or people who have grown up in similar conditions. And it's just a lot of even ideological viewpoints that you have to sift through to get to the root of, like, who these people even are. And it was just like a tremendous amount of content out there. But one netizen comments is 19 kids and counting the name of the show, where the Suns Wrapped Sheets. So with that being said, that is where I leave you with part four. Let me know in the comments. What are your thoughts? Stay safe and I will see you in the next one.

C (59:11)

For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms. Every choice matters. Tremphya offers self injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Tremphya is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks weeks followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks. If your doctor decides that you can self inject Tremphya, proper training is required. Tremphya is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderately to severely active Crohn's disease and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis. Serious allergic reactions and increased risk of infections and liver problems may occur. Before treatment, your doctor should check you for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flulike symptoms, or if you need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about tremphaya today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit tremphiradio. Com.