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Cassie’s Husband Texts Diddy “I’d Like To Beat The F*ck Out Of You”
01:55:23
This is the first time they have seen each other since their break up in 2018. Over 6 years. And now they’re going to be on opposite sides of the courtroom - she’s going to be up on the stand testifying against him. Detailing all the things she didn’t want to do. The urination. The inflatable pool in the middle of a hotel room filled to the brim with baby oil. The seedy green “adult activity” club in Las Vegas. Even breaking up with Kid Cudi. And he will sit there and listen for 2 days straight while she tells the jurors about the injuries he gave her. How he stomped on her face and blackmailed her with explicit videos. All their private messages, photos, and emails will be shown to the court. This is the testimony of Cassie Ventura against Sean Diddy Combs and the reactions of her, her husband, and Sean Combs in the courtroom.
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- [00:00]
Stephanie Su
If you're into deep dives on true crime and searching for answers in every detail, you need to check out Crime Junkie. Hosted by true crime queen Ashley Flowers and her best friend Britt Peratt, Crime Junkie delivers gripping cases, both famous and lesser known, that stick with you. Their storytelling is sharp and uncompromising, just how we like it on Rotten Mango. Listen to Crime Junkie wherever you get your podcast or watch on YouTube. Check it out today. Craving your next action packed adventure? Audible has over a million audiobooks, podcasts and originals all in one easy app. From suspense to horror to romance, Audible delivers thrills of every kind on your command. I recently listened to Emily Henry's Funny Story and I was able to do things around my house, exercise, go about my day. So discover what's beyond the edge of your seat. New members can try audible free for 30 days. Visit audible.com rotten or text rotten to 500500.
- [00:59]
Alex Fine
Bada bing, bada boo.
- [01:00]
Stephanie Su
Sometimes there's a lot that happens when the jurors are not in the courtroom, like the fact that there is a fight to decide whether or not Cassie can have her husband in the courtroom being her emotional support. The defense attorney Anna Esteveo says, we understand Ms. Ventura's husband, Alex Fine, may be present in the courtroom and we expect him to be a potential defense witness. So we would ask that he be excluded, which makes sense. If he's also going to be on the witness stand, he should not be listening to another witness who also happens to be his wife and the mother of his soon to be three children. That makes sense. However, prosecutor Emily Johnson states more or less, no, that doesn't make sense at all. We were advised of this approximately 10 minutes ago. He's not included on the defense witness list. Ms. Ventura's husband is here with his family to support his wife and testify publicly. We had under the cvra, she has the right to be treated with dignity and privacy and she would like support in this courtroom as she testifies to which lead defense attorney Tenny Garagos even states, if I could just elaborate. What we have given the government is the witness list for our case in chief. The reasons are important because at this time we can't really tell your honor who we know we would call. At this time, we can't say who definitely would call. And we certainly the judge asks, wait, why wasn't this raised before this morning when he's here with his entire family inside this courthouse?
- [02:30]
Alex Fine
Wait, so he's already in the courthouse and they're debating to Kick him out.
- [02:34]
Stephanie Su
Yes. He's in the courthouse waiting to come into the courtroom when Cassie comes in to testify. Cassie's brother is here. So is her cousin. Your Honor, I apologize. I brought this up to Ms. Comey, but not Ms. Johnson yesterday. This is my fault. And then I didn't follow up on it last night. I apologize. We're not looking to not have her. Have her support people. Her brother is here who was around the. All the while in their relationship. And we have our application. Your Honor, is that Ms. Ventura's husband not be in the courtroom under Rule 615. Rule 615 is basically the don't be listening if you're going to talk rule. The rule provides courts with the authority to exclude witnesses from the courtroom to prevent them from hearing other witnesses testimonies. I mean, the whole point being, it's to prevent witnesses from tailoring their testimony based on what they hear from other witnesses. So, for example, if everybody saw the defendant. This is not about Combs. Just like a hypothetical defendant, if they saw him kick a koala, then it would be unfair for the group of people to hear each other testify about how he kicked them, what he said after he kicked the koala, and then they all testify in a row. Another thing that the defense points out is that Cassie's husband at one point did send a threatening message to the defendant, Combs. When Cassie and Combs were in the midst of their breakup, he sent, quote, several very threatening text messages to our client saying that he would like to beat the F word out of his old. Just several words that I will not repeat on the record. There are several threatening messages that my client received that we got in discovery from the government. The reason we didn't put him on our witness list, of course, was because the witness list is for the defense's case in chief. But there are several potential witnesses that, depending on how the government's case comes in, we would have to put on in our case in chief. Basically saying depending on how the government handles this direct examination of Cassi Ventura, they might come in with forcing Alex Fine to testify.
- [04:33]
Alex Fine
Okay.
- [04:34]
Stephanie Su
The government is so confused. They're arguing. I'm not really sure if at all he would be able to testify about an alleged rape that occurred between Mr. Combs and Ms. Ventura. But we're open to having that dialogue, and we would ask that Ms. Ventura be allowed to have her support her people, including her husband here in this court. She has various rights under the Crimes Victim Rights act, and we would ask that he be allowed to be present. And this is happening the morning that Cassie's to testify. So she's in the courthouse and they're arguing whether or not her husband be allowed in the defense. They do something interesting though, because once Rule 16 is invoked, I mean, there's really nothing you can do about it. Once it's invoked, it's mandatory. You can't let him be in the courtroom. However, the defense, they come in swinging, they're like, no, we might call him on the defense wit he can't be in the courtroom. And then later they pull back a little bit and they state, we understand she would like her support. People, if he wants to come into the courtroom today, before we talk about the 2018 time period, we are fine with him remaining in the courtroom until then. We would just ask that he be excluded once we get into that time period. Eventually it is agreed upon by the parties that Alex Fein, Cassie's husband, will only be removed for that particular part of Cassie's testimony. And it's hard to say what the real reason is. On why the defense perhaps did not want Alex fine in the courtroom.
- [06:06]
Alex Fine
That's what I was wondering.
- [06:07]
Stephanie Su
It just, I don't know. I mean, who could say, right? It could very much be that they're going to call him up as a witness. Or it could also be the fact that from the moment that Alex Fein walks into that courtroom, cuz I was sitting behind him for most of the testimony days of Cassie, like directly behind.
- [06:25]
Alex Fine
Him, like he's in the role in.
- [06:27]
Stephanie Su
Front of you, like you're literally right in front of him. If I lean my head forward because the pews are kind of smashed together, I would headbutt his back.
- [06:35]
Alex Fine
Whoa.
- [06:36]
Stephanie Su
He the whole time when he walked in, he had his head held high, his chest stout and he stared a lot at Sean Combs and all of his family members. And let's just say I personally would not want to be on the receiving end of that kind of stare. We would like to thank today's sponsors who have made it possible for Rotten Mango to support the Joyful Heart Foundation. They are working to transform society's response to SADD CA and support survivors healing with resources. This episode's partnerships have also made it possible to support Rotten Mango's growing team and also just us all being in New York and going to court every day. We'd also like to thank you guys for your continued support as we work on our mission to be worthy advocates. As always, full show notes are available@roottenmangopodcast.com A few disclaimers before we get started regarding content. There are themes of DV essay and sex trafficking. Please watch with caution. This episode is going to be a lot heavier than the recent one, so please take a break if you need to. Many of the quotes and the statements included have been shortened and or moved around and or condensed for brevity and clarity. However, this week's testimony was impossible to shrink into a standalone episode. So this is going to be a two parter in the first part we're going to cover. It might even be a three parter with two parts covering the direct and then one part covering the cross examination. And there's just it's going to be questioning of the same defense. But I think there has been a lot of talks about the direct and the cross and I also feel like there's a lot of things that are not being talked about about that were, I thought key moments. Now, speaking of the legality of things, Sean Combs is presumed innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. This burden of proof is the responsibility of the prosecution and all the crimes that he has been charged with are alleged until a verdict is reached. Any descriptions or observations regarding Mr. Combs, his legal team, the court and or the public during the trial were personally noted by myself or my two other researchers who were present in the courtroom. They should not be used as definitive source to determine guilt or innocence or how you feel about someone. I do want to make some clarifications for the last episode. I did see some comments that informed me that the giggling in the courtroom when Sean Combs told a male escort that he was in the import and exporting business is a Seinfeld reference. So that's why people were giggling and someone comments total insanity that Diddy was quoting that but also very on brand. The cross examinations from the defense team is someone comments is giving that he wanted to pull a Legally Blonde, but the witness did not fail to keep his story straight. So there were lots of Seinfeld, there were lots of Legally Blonde references. And also I was absorbed in the comment section of the last video because there's a good amount of people either in law school or attorneys already that were giving me insight on why perhaps Donaldson conducted the cross examination the way that he did. And I thought some of them were correct. So if you guys are interested and like need some closure on that, go check out the comments in the last video. But with that being said, Judge Arun is seated on the bench. He's at the very front of the courtroom. I have a Courtroom sketch for you guys. Okay, so I am on the third to last pew on the back right side. Alex Fine, Cassie's brother, Cassie's cousin, as well as Cassie's legal attorney. And, like, two of his fellow attorneys are also in the row in front of us. And then in front of them are government attorneys. So there's prosecutors that are not working the case.
- [10:24]
Alex Fine
So all of Cassie's attorney, the whole team is right in front of you looking at them?
- [10:29]
Stephanie Su
Yes. And every time Cassie takes a break or if we have a recess or if there's lunch, they will walk out with Cassie, and then they'll walk back in with Cassie, and they're literally right in front of me. Yeah. So the judge Arun is asking, is the government ready to call their next witness? Yes, your honor. The government calls Cassandra Ventura. This is the first time since 2018 that Cassie and Sean Combs are seeing each other face to face out of one of the double doors. From behind where we're sitting, the door opens, and in walks Cassie. She's wearing the long brown dress that you've probably seen pictures of her in already. And there is so much tension in that moment. The main thing that I oddly recall in what I wrote down is the noise. Yes. I'm, like, visually seeing everything, and I'm visually, like, trying to analyze everybody's faces. But for some reason, the only thing that stands out in my recollection of that moment and my memory is that I could be. It's the noise. Like, the sound of the door opening and the sound of her walking on the carpet, because I felt like it was that quiet.
- [11:32]
Alex Fine
Wow.
- [11:33]
Stephanie Su
It was just so intense. She does not look at anyone when she walks in. She keeps her eyes glued to the front, but it's not like she's holding her chin down. She's not looking down. Her shoulders are back. Her stomach is like two watermelons. I mean, she's heavily pregnant. I don't even know how she's walking and not waddling.
- [11:51]
Alex Fine
She's like, what, eight and a half months?
- [11:52]
Stephanie Su
Yeah. Additionally, when she sits at the witness stand, she has to lean in at times to speak into the microphone, which I'm sure just cannot be comfortable. She walks in, sits at the witness stand, and combs from my perception is statuesque. And maybe it's in my head, but he feels more frozen than normal. And it doesn't even feel intentional, because I think previously it felt like. It seems like he's trying to not give reactions. He's trying to be as still as possible, but this feels very naturally still. And when she walks in, like, the whole time that she's walking down the aisle past us, like, everybody's body is pivoting towards Cassie as she's walking. So we're. Our whole bodies are moving with her. Same as Sean Combs. He's watching her walk down the entire length of the courtroom. She does not look at him, and she sits down. And I obviously listened to a ton of interviews of Cassie when I was doing, like, my eight hour Didier Russ series last year. Her voice was raspier when she was younger. Perhaps it was her environment. Perhaps. I don't know if she was perhaps smoking at the time, but her voice is actually really soft, which I know some people are gonna be like, oh, my God, she's faking it. But it didn't feel like that. She didn't sound like she was trying to sound meek and so soft. It just sounded like she was very calm initially. Nervous, but calm. And I wrote down in my notes because I heard, which we're not supposed to be talking in the courtroom. We're not supposed to be responding to evidence. We're not supposed to be having any sort of conversations. But I do hear someone whisper behind me, she's so beautiful. Prosecutor Johnson, who does the opening statement. She takes the podium right next to the jurors. She's blonde. It's a Bob. I love it. She looks good. She looks at Cassie, and I will say, the two of them, I'm sure they've seen each other countless times by this point. And again, maybe I'm overthinking things, but I thought maybe this is why Johnson did the opening statement. Because when I was doing that recap episode for you guys, I, like, shortened and condensed that opening statement and pulled the parts that I felt were the most emotional. But in the courtroom, I think it was like an hour long of an opening statement, and the cadence was a lot slower. So there were a lot of people that were in the courtroom that were slightly confused on why she was the one that did the opening statement. But that day, I'm like, okay, maybe this is why. Because the way I interpreted it, Cassie is looking at Prosecutor Johnson, and she looks very safe looking at her. She's not really looking at many other people. She's either looking at Prosecutor Johnson or her family, who is right behind Prosecutor Johnson, sitting in the pews, and then I'm like, right behind them. So, I mean, not that she's looking at me, but you get it. Like, I'm just giving you an idea of where we are. And she doesn't. She just stares at prosecutor Johnson. And she looks like she's more at ease when she's looking at her. So she keeps leaning in to talk to into the microphone. Very pregnant. At a sidebar, lead prosecutor Comey even brings up to the judge, this witness is very, very pregnant. We are afraid she could have the baby over the weekend. We want her off the stand before the weekend. So it's that big of an issue. At times. Cassie's kind of supporting her belly. She doesn't really try to draw attention to the fact that she's pregnant. She's not like rubbing her belly, trying to gain sympathy. Not that I think that's a thing that someone would do, but she just seems uncomfortable. She's like trying to move, put her hands under her belly to maybe support it up or put her hands on her hips. There's a box of tissues next to her.
- [15:23]
Alex Fine
And how many hours you say she was sitting there in that position?
- [15:27]
Stephanie Su
I mean, it's like, like hours at a time. So it's the jurors come in. Judge Arun really tries to do nine, 30 to five. It's like a 30 minute lunch and then maybe a handful of 10 minute breaks. Like maybe three 10 minute breaks.
- [15:44]
Alex Fine
And she's sitting on this wooden bench for majority of the day.
- [15:48]
Stephanie Su
Well, I think it has some cushions, that one. But still very uncomfortable. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Very uncomfortable and very cold. Everyone in the courtroom is cold, and she looked cold as well. And it's just so silent. You can hear the sketch artist just like furiously drawing on their little posters. Through Cassie, the jury learns that she is 38 years old now. She was in an on and off relationship with Combs for a little over 11 years. She ends up signing to his label, Bad Boy Records, which notably, if you remember, Notorious B.I.G. biggie was signed with Bad Boy Records before his murder. We're gonna get there. Cassie states that she signed a 10 album deal with Bad Boy Records. She releases one album in 2006 and then never releases another album again. Furthermore, Cassie states that she was in a platonic friendship with Combs when she signed Tim, and it wasn't until her 21st birthday that things start getting intimate. Side note, they are 17 years apart. Regardless, she says they go to Vegas to celebrate her 21st birthday. And that's when she's explaining, he kissed me in the bathroom of his actual suite pretty early in the morning. We had been up, all of us, pretty late. And that's kind of how she is for majority of her testimony, she looks very genuine in her thought, is the perception that I had. And obviously, I think I went in with biases. But she just. When she's asked a question, she looks like she's getting into that moment. She's, like, lost in that moment. It doesn't seem like she's stuttering of like, oh, I don't know, actually. It just seems like she's in that moment and just trying to say, yeah, that's what happened. Basically. That was kind of her energy throughout. She says that she was really confused, whilst Combs is just, like, scribbling down notes. So there are. There's, like, a few different modes that Sean Combs took during Cassie's testimony. He's either very stoic, very statuesque, or there are moments where it feels like he's intensely staring at her. He could be staring at the evidence screen intensely. He could be staring at the judge intensely. But it did feel like he was staring at her intensely at certain points, or he's, like, just scribbling notes. Because, I mean, they're preparing for their cross examination. So everything she says right now is very important for the defense team. And I thought it was very interesting because Mark Agnifolo, the lead attorney, he's taken a lot of notes, but Sean Combs is taking a lot of notes. And I thought about it and I was like, you know, that makes sense because he doesn't strike me as the type of person that will let the lawyers just do their jobs. He strikes me as the type of person that is trying to be an equal part of the team, that is giving his input, that's giving his advice on the strategies. And Mark Agnifolo, he's also two modes throughout all of this. He's either, like, furiously writing on his legal pad or he's, like, leaned back in his chair like he's watching a movie. Like, it's two modes. It's either, like, just passively viewing or just furiously taking notes. Cassie says, I think I was just really confused at the time. Again, young new artists, like, just really didn't know the lay of the land when it came to things like that. So in my confusion, I just kind of cried and ran out. So she said that they kissed in the bathroom. She cries and she runs out because she's not used to any of this before. She doesn't even understand it. This is the executive, the owner of Bad Boy Records, the label that she's just signed with. She says, yeah, I mean, I was pretty naive. I would Say, I think the part that made it a little more confusing, maybe to add some context, is that Combs was in a public relationship with Kim Porter at the time, and Cassie was publicly dating a producer named Leslie. Cassie says she did not want to kiss Combs, not in that moment. But eventually they come back to New York and they start hanging out more. He was getting his apartment renovated, so she would meet him up at the hotel that he was staying at, which was, interestingly enough, the Trump Hotel in New York City, which there's always been conversations happening about the connection between Diddy and Trump. But Cassie says even the first time she was invited to the Trump Hotel, she describes the feeling as, I mean, initially a bit nervous and then just like being a young artist. Excitement, of course. And, okay, we're gonna talk about music or we're gonna talk about what's next. I think it's just. It's a lot of. In that time period that's just kind of hazy because it was a while ago, but just nervous and excitement a while later. She elaborates on the hotel visits. And this is while all the while Combs Agniphilo scribbling in their notepads. I think it was nervous excitement. It also just made me feel sneaky. I didn't know I was curious, but of course, I ended up here and wanted to be like around him. So that was just kind of it. I was like, okay, I'm here. Leaving. It was just always confusing because I really didn't know what I felt. I felt like I didn't know what I knew that I was making decisions for myself or not. I feel like I was just like, here I am. I don't know how to explain that. But through the hotel meetups of them just talking about these projects, they start developing a lot more comfortable relationship with each other. And then, quote, I remember being introduced to the idea of oral sex. It wasn't something that I really understood or did at that point, and he basically taught me how. So that's when the relationship starts turning intimate. Cassie says she becomes one of his girlfriends. And at the time, she didn't even know. It wasn't really confirmed, per se, but they were always spending intimate time together. So she assumed that they're boyfriend and girlfriend. Yes, but they never went public about it because, quote, it's always just a discussion of me being his artist and not wanting it to look bad. But I also know it was because of his family and his children and other things that were personal for him. He's also publicly Linked with Kim Porter around this time. Kim Porter being one of the mothers of his children to three of his seven children. Well, actually technically four. Because of Quincy.
- [21:35]
Alex Fine
Right?
- [21:36]
Stephanie Su
Yeah. So that's interesting, because Quincy is Kim Porter and Al B. Sure's son that Diddy claims he's adopted. I'll be sure denies that he's not been adopted by Diddy. And then Christian King Combs. And then you've got the twins. So technically four of the seven. And they start showing pictures of Cassie and Shawn just to establish their relationship. Ms. Ventura, directing your attention to the screen in front of you. Do you recognize who's depicted in that still image? Yes, that's me and Sean. They're establishing the relationship. And these are pictures that you can Google from them on red carpets. Like, there are some more private photos, but nothing alarming, nothing salacious, nothing mind blowing. Just pictures of them hanging out with friends. And this is when I noticed something very interesting. And I thought, okay, maybe I'm thinking too deep into it. My researcher right next to me is like, no, you're not. Because she took the exact same notes. And we're not looking at each other's notes in the courtroom. We're not talking. We're not allowed to. Right. But when we came out, it was interesting. So when there were pictures of just Cassie on the exhibit screen, which is to the right of Alex. Fine. So we all kind of. Cassie is directly in front of Alex. Fine. And then Diddy, you kind of have to pivot a little to the left, or your eyes can pivot, but, you know, your head can pivot. And then you can pivot to the right. And you see this TV that shows the exhibit when there were pictures of just Cassie and maybe like, Cassie and a girlfriend of hers, it seems like he would look at the screen. He would look at the exhibit when it was a picture of Cassie and Sean Combs on the screen. I did not see him pivot any of the times. He's just looking straight at his wife. He will not look at those pictures. And those pictures are not salacious. They're like red carpet pictures. Right. He won't look at them. But then when there's pictures of abuse, he will look at them. And not only did we notice and perceive that he looks at the evidence of the pictures that show the abuse, like bruising, he will look at it. And then we saw him look and glare at Combs, the defendant and the family. Yeah. So it's like when it was Cassie, he would look, and then he would look Back at his wife. When it's Cassie and Diddy, he's just eyes fixated on his wife on the stand. And then when it's the abuse, he will look. And then he won't look at his wife. He will stare down the defendant and the family members. And this is like multiple days, too. And what's crazy is they're looking back.
- [23:57]
Alex Fine
Oh, really? They're making strong eye contact.
- [24:01]
Stephanie Su
At one point, I. And like, at the risk of sounding super dramatic, Janice Combs is a very intense woman. She's very tiny. She's a short little lady.
- [24:12]
Alex Fine
Okay, this is Sean Combs, Mom.
- [24:13]
Stephanie Su
Yes, this is Sean comes, Mom. She comes in like a lot of people I did over here. Hallway talk of her choice of wigs. You know, she'll come in big old sunglasses, like just kind of interesting outfits. And she's a tiny, tiny little lady. But she is terrifying, in my opinion. There's something about her that is so terrifying. She. I feel like it's the three people in the three different generations. The way that Janice Combs, Sean Combs, Christian King Combs stares at people is similar. And it sends. It makes you want to pee. Like if. Especially if you're not expecting it and you feel like they're looking in your general area. Not that I think that they're ever looking at me, but you'll get the idea if you feel like they're looking in your general area, it kind of gives you a type of feeling. So there's this moment where Janice Combs, Sean Combs, Mom. I thought she was side eyeing me. Not that I am anybody, but, like, just because that's the. I look over there. She's two rows ahead of us, but on the left side. So diagonally, two rows. But for Alex Fine. She's only one row ahead, right? And I see her and she's like, kind. Her head is still towards the front of the courtroom, but her eyes are peeking over her sunglasses. And it is the most intense side eye I've ever seen from anybody ever. And I was thinking, what did I do? Like, did I accidentally bump into her at the restroom? She was not looking at me. She was looking at Alex Fine. And she held that glare for. Oh, my God. It was the longest glare ever, really.
- [25:51]
Alex Fine
Was Alex aware of that glare or.
- [25:53]
Stephanie Su
I don't think so, but it was a really long glare, just so intense. And with that, there are a lot of things that have gone viral now with the direct questioning or the direct examination by Prosecutor Johnson. So she's standing at the podium. Ms. Ventura, do you recognize who is depicted in Government Exhibit 2A501? Yes. Who is it? Scott Meschetty or Kid Cuddy as people know him. We dated in 2011. We worked together for a brief period. Cassie says that when they were dating in 2011, she did not tell Sean Combs, but he did find out. How did he find out? He actually found out during a freak off in la. He went through my phone and I believe he saw emails between me and one of Scott's staff members. It was about bringing my toiletry bag to my house or something like that the next day. What was his reaction after he saw those emails? I just remember him putting like a wine bottle opener between his fingers and like lunging at me. Just his eyes were blacked out. Super angry and I just had to get out of there. It was actually another time that I was able to get out of a freak off. She runs away to another hotel, gets her burner phone. So she's got a burner phone so that she can call Scott. Eventually he picks her up. She's saying this whole situation is not going to be resolved if I just keep running away. She's like, I gotta go and just explain to Sean what's going on. Like we were on a break. Maybe we're moving on. Maybe we're all moving on, you know, and it's not like he's not seeing other people. She says. When I arrived at his house, that was the house where his bedroom was on the top floor. It's this massive mansion in la. So I went into his room and he was irate. He was just so angry. And when I was in the room, he told me about the videos that he had that he was going to release of me and how he was going to hurt Scott and I. So that was all said there and then I just ultimately left. When I was leaving, I was more than ready to go. He. Sean kicked me in the back on my way out. So I just had a big bruise on my back. I fell to the floor and yeah, then left. I had a large bruise on my back. The day is fuzzy, but I had bruises in other places on my body. I just remember that one significantly because he literally kicked me with the bottom of his foot in my back. When she goes back to the hotel room, it is trashed. She doesn't know, but it seems like allegedly that one of Sean Combs guards, maybe himself, maybe one of his accomplices, I don't know, trashed the hotel room. She says it was just torn up There was. Somebody peed all over the floor in the bathroom. My clothes were everywhere. All the furniture was over, like, turned upside down. Somebody pooped in the toilet and didn't flush it. It was just gross. So she gets another hotel room with Scott, and that's when she sends an email to her mom and Scott, just in case. As a record, it reads, threats. The threats that have been made towards me by Sean Paffy Combs are that he is going to release two explicit sex tapes of me. One on Christmas Day, maybe before or right after, and another one sometime soon after that. He has also said that he will be having someone hurt me and Scott Muscady physically. He made a point that it wouldn't be by his hands. He actually said he'd be out of the country when it happened. Soon after that, Cassie flies home to Connecticut to be with her mom. And within hours, her mom is taking pictures of her giant bruises on her back. Because she's like, no, something's not right. You abruptly fly to Connecticut and now, like, what happened? I'm sure her mom has, like, a sixth sense. This is her daughter. Cassie tells her mom that, no, this is the first time that Sean Combs has ever been abusive. She says, I just wasn't ready. And I was also just terrified because the prosecutor is asking, why didn't you just tell her the truth? Like, that? This has been going on for so long. Like, it's not normal. What's not normal? Just constantly being bruised up by the person that you love or that says they love you. Like, you can't justify it to anyone. Just especially not your mom. At that point, Cassie requests that Scott and her break up. At this point in the testimony, Cassie requests a break, and so she walks out abruptly. Her husband is also following her out. Now, I will say that Alex, fine. The whole time, he doesn't look happy, especially when he's looking in the general direction of where the defendant and the defendant's family are sitting. I would not even say that he looks stoic or neutral. He looks kind of pissed. But when he's walking out after Cassie requests a break, he looked like he was, like, ready to burn the world down for her.
- [30:27]
Alex Fine
Really?
- [30:28]
Stephanie Su
Yeah, he looked very upset, but in, like, a protective way. It didn't just look like he's like, I'm so angry. You know, it just. He seemed very upset. Like, I think he's upset at the fact that his wife is going through this. After that break, Cassie comes back to tell the court that in Connecticut, because Kid Cudi had come to Connecticut with her. She just wanted to break it up with him. She said it was too much danger, too much uncertainty of what could happen if they kept seeing each other. When you say danger, what specific danger were you worried about? I mean, Sean said to me before I left LA that he was gonna hurt the both of us. And I at least took that in my mind. Like, if I stay in this situation, we both will be hurt. If I don't, no one will be. He mentioned that when we were out of the country that Scott's car would be blown up. He wanted his friends to be there to see it. When you say he wanted his friends to be there to see it, who is he? Sean wanted Scott's friends to be there to see the car get blown up in the driveway. This is what I said a few months ago about Kid Cudi and his car. But after that incident, Cassie Combs and Kid Cudi do end up meeting up with each other. And this is, like, information that I have not come across until the testimony at Soho House in la. The purpose of the meeting was to discuss the relationship that we were no longer in. Yeah. And the only thing I remember from the end was Scott asking Sean. Scott said, what about my vehicle? And Sean said, what vehicle? And that was the end of the meeting.
- [31:51]
Alex Fine
Wait, where they met up and talked about. We don't know.
- [31:54]
Stephanie Su
Yeah.
- [31:55]
Alex Fine
At all.
- [31:56]
Stephanie Su
Just that they're no longer seeing each other.
- [31:59]
Alex Fine
Okay.
- [31:59]
Stephanie Su
And that was the part with Kid Cudi that everyone has been talking about. And I think the Internet has been speculating that potentially he could be called to testify. Kim Porter was brought up a lot, and I think it was interesting for her to be brought up in the presence of also her children. Now a picture from the 2006 BET Awards pops up on the exhibit screen, and it's Kim Porter, Combs, Cassie, and a woman named Sherry Dennis. They're all on the red carpet. Who is Kim Porter? Kim Porter was Sean's ex from before me and the mother of his children. So far, Kid Cudi, Kim Porter have come up, but there hasn't been much discussion that we didn't already know from, like, a few months ago about the two of them. But also, the infamous Suge Knight comes up. If you need some context. It's like, I genuinely think Sean Combs live 10 different lives. Suge Knight is, like, from five, six, seven lives ago. Cassie says Combs and Suge Knights. Yeah, we're rivals. There's actually quite a bit to unpack with Suge Knight, and this is How Cassie describes the incident at the Melrose Diner where Suge Knight is shot. And there's speculations that Sean Combs had something to do with it. Cassie says Sean and I were having a freak off at one of his homes in la. And I just remember we were kind of like, just chilling at this point. And Drock, one of the security guards, came in and he said that Shug was down at Mel's Diner, which was just right down the hill. And they quickly packed up and drove down there. What was your reaction? I was crying. I was screaming like, please don't do anything stupid. I was just really nervous for them. I didn't know what it meant, what they were going to do. I saw them get dressed and leave the house. And you mentioned that they returned. Is that correct? Yes. Approximately how long between when they left did they return? It really wasn't that long. I couldn't imagine. It was probably like, definitely less than an hour. 30 minutes, 30, 45 minutes, tops. When they get back, the prosecutors, they now want to focus on the guns. Have you ever handled Sean's guns? Handled? I've been handed, yeah, but scared. Who handed a gun to you? I don't know specifically who, but it was some security guard in the car. Approximately when did this happen and what do you recall about that night? I just remember we took mushrooms and I was, like, really high and I was handed the gun to just hold in my bag, but I was just freaking out the whole time that it was gonna go off. I hadn't used or learned to operate a gun at that point.
- [34:25]
Alex Fine
So wait, is this kind of like the JLO situation?
- [34:28]
Stephanie Su
Yes. So this might be important later because if you guys remember, there was an incident a while back, and this is when Com. Sean Combs did. He was reportedly dating Jennifer Lopez. There was a nightclub shooting, and it is alleged that JLO had a gun in her purse as they left the nightclub. But Cassie states she had that gun in her bag. It was in my bag for the duration of the club visit, so like about an hour, an hour and a half. And how did you feel while the gun was in your bag? Just terrified. I didn't want anyone to touch me, come near me. I just stayed, like, sitting in the back. After you left the club, what did you do with the gun as soon as you got in the car? I gave it to whoever the security was. I just didn't want it. I had no idea why I had it in the first place. And I just wanted to not be holding a loaded gun. If I was Appliances and home systems all tend to break down at some point, but with an American Home Shield warranty, you're covered. 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Just like laid out on the table by security handguns. She said, yeah, maybe there was no point in those guns being laid out on the tables. She said. It felt psychological. She says it's a vague memory. Just they came out here and there and guns were taken out here and there. So like just I always felt like it was just a bit of a scare tactic. I didn't really know for what purpose however, Suge Knight is now in prison and he has always been suspicious of Sean Combs and he still does jailhouse interviews saying that he's suspicious of Sean Combs. But since we're on Suge Knight, we also have to talk about Notorious B.I.G. real quick. Cassie mentions that there are aliases that the two of them would use to book hotel rooms for these freak offs. Cassie went by Jackie Star, Veronica Bang and Anita Crawford. Combs went by Frank Black or Frank White. She's asked, turning to Jackie Star, why did you use the name Jackie Starr? That was a name that I don't know who came up with it, if it was him or me, that I just used to actually book dancers. So I would use that name instead of my own name and then just started using it as a hotel room name. But she never mentions why Combs was named Frank Black or Frank White. But if you look online, Biggie Smalls would often refer to himself as Frank White. He got the name from a movie character who, quote, goes from ashy to classy. And he would sometimes be called Black Frank White because it's just a big part of his lore. So if you're not familiar with the Biggie lore, I will link that episode below. Or just wait, because there have been whispers that the conversation is going to rise again. Biggie has since obviously passed, but there's, there's whispers that it's going to be a bigger conversation later on. Prince is also brought up. Cassie is explaining that one day she was with her makeup artist Myla Morales at the Beverly Hills Hotel. And one of the friends, she's just there with a group of girlfriends. One of the friends is like, do you know that Prince is having a party at his house? He's going to perform. I mean, we gotta go. It's like a once in a lifetime experience to see Prince at a private performance. So Cassie shows up. She says, we arrived and went downstairs. There weren't that many people there and Prince wasn't performing yet. So we were just there and I saw some executives from like, bet. I saw different people that I knew through Sean. And then suddenly I heard that he was there.
- [39:42]
Alex Fine
Prince or Sean?
- [39:43]
Stephanie Su
Sean. She did not tell him. I mean, it's not like she was. I mean, she thought that if she told him, he was gonna say no. It's not that he asked and she lied. She just was with her girlfriends. And then the night ended up at Prince's house at a party where there's a bunch of other people. Cassie says that she immediately books it out of there, though, just like, runs as fast as she can for the hills into the front yard because she could tell that he was angry. She says he came after her quote. It's a little fuzzy, but the most distinct memory I have is like, running and falling into the bushes in the front yard. And like, I don't know if at that point he was over me. I have no idea. I just remember falling in the bushes and then getting up quickly getting the car and getting back to the hotel. He follows her to the hotel where the makeup artist Myla is asleep on the couch. So he burst in through the room. She's like, please, can we just, like, fight in the bedroom? And she says, we had this bad fight. He beat me up in that room. He was throwing luggage at me, just calling me all kinds of names.
- [40:41]
Alex Fine
Is he just very jealous, controlling?
- [40:43]
Stephanie Su
Yeah. Now, there are allegations that before the trial that Prince's name might come up during the trial. It could be referring to this. It could be referring to further allegations that Prince and Combs would party together. People thought it was strange, but most people seem to agree that the relationship between Combs and Prince was more professional, distant than close friendship. Now, side note, more celebrity names will come up during the cross examination of Cassie, which will be covered in the next one. But the most important name that I think that came up during the direct, I will say, when some of these big names came up, the jurors seemed a lot more attentive, a lot more awake. Like the minute that Kid Cudi came up, they're like Johnny McCarthy notes. Like, these names are. I mean, a lot of people know these names, especially Kid Cudi for some reason. Now, there is this moment, though, where the government requests back to back exhibits to be shown to the witness, to Cassie, but also to the open court. And all of them are pictures of male escorts. Which. Side note, Alex Fine does not appear to be looking at the pictures of the male escorts. And I don't think it's because he's upset and, like, shocked at his wife having gone through this. Like, some people are trying to make it seem like, ugh, she had so many partners. He's so disgusted. It just looked like they are at a different stage in their lives. Now they have to come and testify, but they have a family and he's just choosing not to look at the photos. Like, that's how I perceived it. Now she's responding to the ones that she recognizes. She's like, this one is Islander. He was hired for freak offs. And I Think he was on the site LatinMet. Next exhibit. I knew this one as I knew him as Tommy. Next exhibit. I don't really recall his name. Next exhibit. I knew him as Skyler. And this is Jake, this is Greg. And then another photo pops up and the jurors have zero reaction. But the press, there's shuffling in the press. People are like writing in the press, like you just hear pens on journals. Ms. Ventura, who do you know the individual depicted in Government Exhibit 2A624 to be Jonathan. It's Jonathan Odie. Do you remember him? This is what we said about him a few months ago. The man, Jonathan Odie is arrested. He's a for a website called dancingbears.com. it's an X rated website where male dancers put on big bear masks and have intimate relations with women. But he continues rambling about, quote, obama is Osama. Trump makes his money on gas. Kill all the police in the street. Useless, good for nothing, nada. All of you laws are corrupt. Police, Death has come to you. You, you be judged. Die for now and for hell and for all of eternity. People in the streets are gonna shoot you. He continues on his rambles. I have a settlement. I have a settlement with the former President of the United States, Obama. I have a settlement with the current President of the United States, Donald Trump. And I have one with P. Diddy. Excuse me. Jonathan Odie is brought into an interrogation room. Here's what I want you guys to know. Diddy and Ross, which they're good buddies, okay? And they're gay. Ross, Rick Ross. The police are confused. Who is Katie? And Ross and Karen, they all gay. DJ Kelly, Rick, Ross and PD yeah, they all gay. Yeah. Gotcha. You know the Illuminati group that I was telling you about? He puts his hands up in a triangle shape, the illuminated group, you know, the Illuminati, which is an elite group, okay? Individuals which run the whole country, all right? What I did this for was to basically transmit a statement to the American people. Because they want the United States States to fall. They've been creating chaos and confusion in the United States. They want the United States to fall. You have the Illuminati, basically, which means illuminate. They do satanic ritual abuse, which is basically CIA mind programming techniques to their own family and kids. And they bond that way. They do animal abuse, killing of animals, blood sacrifices and everything in the bohemian gross. You know, where the bushes go. Okay, how do I know this? Yeah, that's what I want to know. How do you know this Sean Combs. Puff Daddy. Yeah, P. Diddy, whatever you call himself these days. Yeah, go ahead. Yeah. He's part of what's called the Boulevard. The Bullet is a branch of Illuminati, okay? It's the black people, okay? I'm from Africa, so I'm not a racist, okay, okay. You my brother, so I like black people, okay? My mom.
- [45:27]
Alex Fine
I was raised by.
- [45:29]
Stephanie Su
By an African woman in my house, okay? And the police are like, okay, okay, right, right, okay. So I have this settlement with Sean, and he belongs to that agenda. That's why he's so famous. They land over contracts, okay? He leans in, he puts his arms on the table. I had with Cassie and Sean, basically. He would. He would. Cassie. I had like 15 encounters. And I heard a lot because when they would do it, Sean talks a lot on the phone and on the TV with speakers and stuff. And I'll be in there. I was like a slave. Yeah. For them, that's what I was. He leans back, so I caught herpes. He goes on, is going on. Yeah. I mean, it just seems like the ramblings of someone who is a little unhinged. He leans back and he goes on to explain that Diddy's two attorneys asked him to turn in a video recording. Those two attorneys are also involved in Michael Jackson's death. And the Illuminati. It's unclear, but it seems like he's stating a video was recorded of this supposed encounter and he turns it in. But he also states, they gave it back to me accidentally, and it's possible that I threw everything out. But it's also possible that I could produce a copy. I'm not sure. Basically what happened is the Ciroc agenda. You know, the Ciroc Vodka agenda is to promote binge drinking and drugs. The Hip Hop Agenda. That's why they had Tupac killed. Because when they killed him, they gained pain. That's when the record sales go up. That's how you become famous. That's how. That's how you do it. All right? Tupac is still alive. He's in Cuba. Basically, what happens. It was in the Hip Hop Agenda, what he alleges in more simplified terms. They move drugs all over the United States. They move drugs in private Jackson jets that don't get screened within the United States. Domestically. They move all that dope in the private jets. They move what's called high grade powder, mdma. They move cocaine. They move liquid cocaine in their bottles, too. I see the liquid cocaine. I'm tracking myself having sex With Gideon. Cassie. Okay, it's not good. He drinks all the time. All right? He calls it GG but it's liquid cocaine. All right? Many state it sounds like an interrogation that one would watch to study for psychology class. And to be frank, there's many parts of the interrogation that sounds like the unhinged ramblings of someone who has lost touch with reality and has gotten swept up in every Internet conspiracy possible. Perhaps he created a whole fantasy of two high profile a list celebrities. And in his mind, he truly knows them. He's met them, he's had these encounters with them. But it's all a fantasy, right? It doesn't change the fact that he committed this crazy crime. And it does appear that most of what he's saying are full blown conspiracies. We hope. But the question is, what if there's even a little bit of truth to what he's saying? And now Cassie has just confirmed that they know each other. He recently did an interview with News Nation from a Miami jail. By the way. He says, I felt bad because I got along well with Cassie. I think she's a decent person. And unfortunately, I had a suspicion that she was in a situation that, you know, but I wasn't sure and now understand what was going on in her life and was happening. And him beating her up in the hotel shows me the type of individual he is and confirms that everything that happened to me was true and correct. He was saying, like PI. We're following him. He was scared for his life. He says all this starts because he was making more money to perform sexual acts. He says, I got dressed like a police officer. Do you recall witness to you?
- [49:09]
Alex Fine
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [49:11]
Stephanie Su
I got dressed like a police officer and they stripped me down. And then they offered me some money. They offered me some money to do some extra sexual stuff. He describes everything pretty distinctly. He says, the freak offs. Yeah, I mean, candles, you know, I would just. He would just sit in the corner sofa, watch, and he'd tell her, you know, give instructions what to do to perform it. Rub baby oil. Then he'd tell me, rub baby oil on her perform oral sign. He says that he probably engaged in 15 sessions and he would get paid about $800 each time. He says the biggest issue though, that he had was Cassie just seemed so drugged out that he decided, I feel like she's gonna die one day and they're gonna blame it on me. So he says that he records a video at a freak off because he's scared. He says, quote, because after she passed out. I decided to record that. So in event anything worse happen, if she died. Well, anybody died, they'll be on camera, they'll be on video. Like, I wouldn't be responsible for any of that. He records it, but they catch on. He says Combs and two associates in ski masks start coming to get him. And he starts. Combs just starts threatening Jonathan. That's what he's accusing. Eventually, allegedly, Jonathan signs an NDA and takes allegedly $5 million of what some might call hush money. It's unconfirmed, but there is a screenshot of an agreement floating around on the Internet. We don't know how accurate it is, but he did instantly, immediately start going on a real estate shopping spree in Florida.
- [50:38]
Alex Fine
Did he buy something?
- [50:40]
Stephanie Su
Yes, he bought, like, a bunch of real estate. Now hold on to Jonathan Odie, because he's gonna come back in the next episode as well. There were a few moments where they're pulling something from the evidence, and Cassie would just kind of quietly shift in her chair. She just seems really uncomfortable on the chair. She's not trying to move or fidget too much. But anytime there's a moment where she's not being asked a question, she's, like, trying to readjust her belly, her positioning. And her shoulders will go up, and then she'll just kind of like, lower them as if she's, like, releasing tension. And she reaches for tissues to wipe her tears. And again, this could be a very strong bias, but I was thinking about it, and I'm like, I bet she's really lonely up there. Because it's not like you can just say, hey, can I have my husband sit next to me? Hey, can I, like, go and meditate for 10 minutes or, like, go cry in the bathroom? I mean, she can take a few breaks here and there, but I imagine that feeling to be very lonely. Like, your brother, your husband, your cousin are in the courtroom. They're so far away, and there's all these scary people in between. And scary, not like threatening, but, you know, attorneys are scary. They're intense. The jurors are just sitting right next to her. And it's just like Prosecutor Johnson asks. And how did you learn what a freak off was? Within the first year of our relationship, Sean proposed me this idea, this sexual encounter that he called voyeurism, where he would watch me be have intercourse and sexual activity with a third party, specifically another man. When Shawn first proposed freak offs, what was your reaction? Oh, I just remember, like, my stomach falling to my butt, like, just the Nervousness and the confusion in that moment. I think I was 22 at the time. I just turned 22. I didn't have a concept of how that would be a turn on, but I also felt a sense of responsibility with him sharing something like that with me, you know. So, yeah, I was confused, nervous, but also loved him very much and wanted to make him very happy. So how did Sean describe voyeurism to you? He described voyeurism as a fantasy that he had where he would want to see me have a. With another male and having sexual interaction. Yeah, he would watch. What was your reaction when Sean told you about voyeurism? I was shocked. I did. I wasn't expecting anything like that. I just really, like at a loss. I didn't know how to react. I didn't want to upset him. If I said that, it scared me or if I said anything outside of, okay, let's try it. Because I was just always down for the things he wanted to do. I was really nervous. Like really, really nervous nervous. What, if anything, did Sean say to you about swinging? Swinging was brought up separately and it was a lifestyle that he taught me about, about couples that switch partners. And yet I didn't really have too much knowledge of it. Did you agree to try a freak off when Shawn first proposed one? I did. Approximately how old were you when Shawn first proposed freak offs to you? I think I just turned 22. And how did it come. How did the term freak off come about? I honestly don't remember exactly how it came about. Can you describe for the jury when you say the term freak off, what that entails? Basically, it entails the hiring of an escort and setting up the experience so that I could perform first. Sean. And what did the performance involve? At a high level, the performance involved. I'm sorry, she seems to start getting emotional. It just involved watching Sean. Was Sean being able to watch me with the other person and direct, like, direct us on what we were doing sexually. And when you say the other person, who are you referring to? The third party, the escort or dancer that would be hired. Cassie explains during the freak offs, combs would provide ecstasy and alcohol. What did you wear to the first freak off specifically? I don't know exactly, but it was definitely an outfit from a sex store hustler or something with some really high platform shoes. Like dancing shoes. Always super see through netting outfit. It varied just like a sexy outfit from a store. What are some of the stores you would buy outfits at in la? There's a store called Pleasure Chest Hustler on Sunset. Here in the city there's just like little shops everywhere. She says that she would always wear those stripper dance shoes. Just like extremely high heels. Uncomfortable but extremely high. She would wear them throughout the entire freak off. Sometimes if there was a break she would take them off but mainly she would wear them throughout. Who decided what you would wear to the freak offs? I would purchase outfits and show Sean and see what he liked the best. What if anything did you do to disguise your appearance? She states later that the very first time Shawn told her that they would be wearing masks, like a masquerade mask. And then later sometimes she would wear glasses, sometimes she would wear wigs. What if any supplies were needed for Freaka? Main supplies were baby oil, astroglide as lubricants and condoms. Who typically bought the supplies for the freak offs? More often than not it was the staff. Like the room was usually stocked by the time we got there. If not, if it were like a last minute situation that I set up, I would get things or sometimes Shawn would bring them. Initially what kind of lighting was used for freakoffs? Initially it was candlelit. So various candles. What kind of candles were candles used at the time? Really strong smelling candles like Glade or Diptyque. Any just really strong smelling. Approximately how many candles were used? Approximately 6 to 10. They were placed so that Sean could see me in the escort in the candlelight. Later she says that there was a distinct smell during freak off so perhaps that's why they used the very strong candles.
- [56:26]
Alex Fine
What does that mean?
- [56:29]
Stephanie Su
Lots of just mixing of scents, of body scents, baby oil. But also later there's blood and urine. Besides lighting, were there any other uses for candle wax? A couple of times where it was poured on the body but it wasn't common. When you say poured on the body, whose body? My owner, Sean's and specifically she even goes on to mention that the candle, if they were the Glade ones, they were the angel whispers scent. And she says if anybody knows what that smells like, just like on 10 it was super pungent and mixed with oil and just all of the other scents. What other scents were there? I mean it was warm so he likes to keep it kind of warm in the hotel room during the freak offs. So body odor, you know. Side note, I did see another interview previously of Cassie. She where talks about being a germaphobe and she does seem like very squeamish every time she talks about these incidents of like the freak offs. How was the baby oil used during the freak Off. It was just. It was just as important as everything else being there. We used it quite a bit. Can you please describe what happened at the initial first freak off? We took drugs. We had a conversation. Sean had a conversation with the dancer. And then shortly after, he came down to the room and performed and stood in the doorway and danced for a little while. I just watched. And while Sean watched us, what happened next? It was just a gradual. I would say every freak off was like directed by Sean. Like he knew specifically where he wanted everyone to be, the lighting and such. So the first session, we just kind of ended up getting closer and closer, talking to each other, and then eventually had to put oil on each other. Yeah, you use the word session. What do you mean by session? A session in a freak off would be like one full time, the escort, until basically they finished. Do you recall how many sessions you had with the first escort at the first freak off? I believe we had at least two. After this freak off, how did you feel? Well, I was high, so there wasn't too much feeling. I think it was a mixture of dirty and confusion. Like, okay, he's really happy with me and I did something right. So just really confusing. I didn't know that what was gonna happen after that. I didn't know if we were gonna do to be doing it more frequently because I was willing to. I didn't know. So what, if anything, did you tell Shawn about how you felt about the first freak off? I honestly don't remember. She said within weeks he asked for another freak off. And she responded in like the same kind of mixture of like nervousness, what am I going to do? But also, I can't say no is the feeling. She says, like, I've already done it. And I ultimately said yes. Why did you feel you couldn't say no? Just didn't want to make him upset. Yeah, I didn't want to make him upset. I didn't want him to make him angry and regret having told me about this experience that was so personal. I like his trust meant a lot to me at that point. How frequently did you have freak offs with Sean after they started? After they started, it became almost weekly. I would say, who is in charge of all the aspects of the freak offs? You mentioned the hiring, the setup, etc. Eventually it became a job for me pretty much to where I just. I knew if that it is something that he wanted to do. I had the contacts to set it up and get a hotel room and all of that. But in the beginning, Sean set It up. He was in charge. Where was it? Where was the baby oil placed? We poured it all over. Our bodies had to be glistening. Which participants in the freak off, if any, used the baby oil? Everyone. What temperature was the baby oil when it was poured on your body? It was always heated. Like, keep the cap on it and put it in the sink with hot water and let it warm up. Who wanted the baby oil to be heated? Sean, you mentioned that the baby oil was used because you had to be glistening. Who told you that you needed to be glistening? Sean. It was his preference. How frequently would baby oil be applied to be glistening? Like every five minutes. It was a lot. He would. If he felt like we were too dry, he would let us know. What would he say? He would say, you're too dry. You need to put on more oil or you need to be glistening. You need to be. You need to be shining. Why did you know what to do? It was a very choreographed experience. Who choreographed it, Sean, during the freak offs, who applied Boy B oil to you? I applied it to myself sometimes, Sean, sometimes the escort. How did you usually apply baby oil? You just squirt it out of the bottle. Approximately how many bottles of baby oil would be used in a typical freak off? A lot. I would say definitely somewhere Close to 10 now. Yeah. Side note, there were some evidence photos and they were using. At least I'm assuming they were using the larger bottle. She does confirm it was the larger ones. 10 bottles is about like $80 per freak off, which I highly doubt. Combs is worried about the price. But aside from that, that's a gallon of baby oil. 10 bottles is a gallon. I mean, if you were to use baby oil for typical baby care applications, parents would probably go through a gallon of baby oil in a year. Even a full body massage only requires three fluid ounces of oil per session. They're using 140 ounces. So that's like 46 full body massages. Even if you were to get a massage almost every week, you could last almost a year with that much baby oil.
- [61:53]
Alex Fine
So it's basically a gallon dumped in the middle of the room.
- [61:56]
Stephanie Su
Yeah. A hotel room.
- [61:58]
Alex Fine
Yeah. And how do you even clean baby oil? It doesn't even make sense.
- [62:02]
Stephanie Su
Yeah. Now, obviously this doesn't cover the people who use it for professional settings or for extenuating circumstances. Typically, athletes will use a lot of baby oil, but this is still an abnormally large amount consumption of baby oil. Now, just to remind you, though, but.
- [62:17]
Alex Fine
That wouldn't that mean, like, all of these Hotels kind of know about this.
- [62:21]
Stephanie Su
Then, because there were some tweets circulating of employees at hotels that were like, hey, so Diddy just stayed at the hotel that I work at, and I'm telling you, he's nasty. And, like, people didn't really put two and two together because it's like, what does that even mean? And, like, you kind of assume that celebrities have wilder sex lives, quote, unquote. Just to remind you, though, authorities said that they seized a thousand bottles of baby oil during the raid on his home. Homes, like, thousands of bottles, which is exponentially more money. But aside from the cost, once more, it is an insane quality to which, even before the trial, Agnifolo said he probably bought it in bulk, like a lot of Americans do at the local Costco. I'm paraphrasing. And I do think that before the trial started, I was like, sir, what a crazy thing to say. I think you're absolutely insane, and you got a few bolts loose, right? But now I'm like, yeah, no, Mark Agnifolo would say something like that. He'd just be saying stuff and him cry and steal. I feel like they say stuff, and I believe that they believe what they're saying. Like, it's the craziest thing. It's like, I feel like you might genuinely believe that maybe I'm naive, and I think maybe they're just that good. Like, they say it with their full chest, but it's also just like, their whole demeanor. Anytime that Mark Agniphilo is talking, he sounds like the type that would be like, I mean, yeah, bulk buying does make sense. Like, that's the vibe he gives me. So it did get me a little bit confused. I mean, maybe that's. They're just super convincing, and maybe that's why they're Getting paid allegedly 7, 8 figures to be on the defense team. I don't know. Both of them do have that teddy bear dad aura, which I'm saying this because I'm sure the jurors are also receptive to the attorney's vibes and energies inside that courtroom, especially when you're there all day Monday through Friday. I mean, you can't avoid people's, like, quirks and personalities and sometimes charisma. Now, I do think, interestingly enough, Brian Steele and Mark Agnifolo are more charming when the jurors are not in the room.
- [64:29]
Alex Fine
Really?
- [64:31]
Stephanie Su
During, like, the hearings.
- [64:32]
Alex Fine
What does that mean?
- [64:33]
Stephanie Su
So they'll be talking to the judge about even, like, debating that Cassie's husband shouldn't Be in the room. Right. And I don't think that that action is charming, but it's the way that they phrase things and the way that they try to make jokes at certain times. Not jokes because nothing's funny, but like, there will be an awkward moment and they'll kind of lean into the awkward moment. So it's very interesting. I'm curious to see how it translates to the jurors in the next seven weeks. Now, prosecutor Johnson continues after a freak off. Can you describe the condition of the room where the freak off was held? The room was usually pretty bad off. There was oil all over the walls, the door handles, the bed, the sheets. We often would get to the room. I would need to call and ask for extra linens and towels and stuff like that to try and mitigate those problems. But oil, candle wax all over the place. So she would ask for extra sheets and try to cover the couch. But I mean, you're not really a gallon of baby oil. You described wax and oil damage. What else, if anything, was soiling the lips? Linens, sometimes blood, urine. So starting with blood, how would blood get on the linens at Freak Offs, I was expected to have freak offs on my period. Did you want to have free coughs on your period? No, I don't think anybody really wants to do that. And you also mentioned urine. How would urine get on the linens at freak Offs? Sometimes Sean would have he himself. He would have the escort urinate on me sometimes. There was so much going on, I don't know how they got soiled the way they did, to be completely honest. So focusing on the urine, did you want an escort or Sean to urinate on you? No. And before that happened, what, if anything, did you discuss about being urinated on? There was no conversation. It just was a turn on for him. So it happened. Can you please describe how it felt when this happened? I mean, just as humiliating if anybody were there to see it. It was disgusting. It was too much. It was overwhelming. I choked. There couldn't have been anything on my face that was reading that I wanted to be doing that. I was kind of just laid on the floor in a position that I couldn't easily get out of. So were you able to tell the escort to stop? I just kind of put my hands up and eventually Sean saw and he told them to stop. Why did you put your hands up? Nothing I could really do laying on the floor. You mentioned choking. Why were you choking? Too much urine in my mouth. And besides the escort urinating on you, who Else, if anyone did that. Sean did you want Sean to urinate on you? I don't want anyone to urinate on me, no. And when in relation to the escort urinating on you, did Sean urinate on you the same time? Were there freak offs where you ran out of baby oil? Defense attorney Esteveo leans into the microphone on the table. Objection, your honor. At this point, it's getting a little cumulative, AKA it's a lot of repeating evidence that adds little information beyond what's already being established. They're saying, like, we're just doing too much baby oil questions. Basically. You can't keep repeating stuff to try and overemphasize a point. If you're not adding any more information or substance to the case, or it's like if you have multiple expert witnesses that are all testifying the same thing over and over again, then you don't need that many multiple expert witnesses. The judge tells prosecutor Johnson, let's wrap this up and move on. You also mentioned Astroglide. How was that used at freakoffs? Esteveo leans in, same objection, irrelevant. Prosecutor Johnson this time is not having it. Your honor. It's a supply. The judge calls for a sidebar. So in court, when there's a sidebar, the bailiff will actually come to, like, the middle of the courtroom, and he will be watching everyone. Like, no one's allowed to talk because technically the judge is still on the bench, right? And you see the defense attorneys, you see the prosecutors, and you see the judge literally do a huddle on the side of the courtroom, and they just play white noise. But then when you get the transcripts, you can actually see what was talked about. Unless it's a sealed sidebar. So I always find, like, a very interesting thing, because when it's a sidebar, it's like, wait, why did they call a sidebar now? I'm so curious. And then later you find out. Now, at this moment in the sidebar, the judge is asking Prosecutor Johnson, Ms. Johnson, maybe you can help us with where we're going right now. I think the objection is grounded in lack of relevance and also the cumulative nature of the questioning. Am I right about that? Esteveo says, that's right. The judge says, maybe if you can give us some guidance as to where you're going next, that would be helpful. Yes, your honor, we are going through the various supplies that were used because those are supplies that were demanded by the defendant that were at every freak off, that were consistent with. Showed a pattern which showed how he controlled the Events that happened at these breakoffs. I will not ask any more oil questions. I have one question on lubricant, but I'm going to march through with different supplies that were present. That's fine. The judge is like, that's fine. I understood the objection to be mainly on the cumulative nature on this. I think we had about 20 questions on baby oil issues, and I think we can condense that a little bit and you'll avoid the objection. Is that fair?
- [69:22]
Alex Fine
How long was this baby oil talk? Was it like an hour, two hours? Was it like, did it feel like it was extended that I didn't?
- [69:33]
Stephanie Su
And maybe because the baby oil was a very big lore, and maybe it's not the most factual evidence against the charges that he's being charged with. I thought it was. I thought the jurors were engaged.
- [69:50]
Alex Fine
Oh, you thought the jurors were engaged?
- [69:52]
Stephanie Su
Yeah, I thought that it was. I don't know if it's, like, importance to the case or maybe it's, you know, shocking information.
- [70:04]
Alex Fine
Got it.
- [70:05]
Stephanie Su
But it didn't feel overly like, oh, my God, let's move on. There were other times where I was like, oh, my goodness, like, we don't need to know the past 10 residences in which she lived. Unless you're gonna, like, tie it into something. Which I felt like sometimes it was and a lot of the times it wasn't. But this was not one of those situations where I was. Was like, wait, what's happening? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But to which Mark Agnifolo, lead defense counsel, says, I was going to say slippery slope, but I'm not going to say it.
- [70:35]
Alex Fine
So he's making a joke.
- [70:36]
Stephanie Su
Yeah. And that's how they end the sidebar, which is, like, gnarly because to end the sidebar with a baby oil joke. What is happening right now? Which if you're like, are you sure there was a lot of questions on the baby oil? There were a lot of questions on the baby oil, I will give you that. Okay, so there were more throughout the entire direction. Were there other ways of applying baby oil at a free cough? There was one time where I think I got to a hotel in Beverly Hills and there was a pool like blow up pool, and it was filled with lube and oil. So that was a different way.
- [71:04]
Alex Fine
Like a pool in the room, though.
- [71:07]
Stephanie Su
Yeah. When there was a blow up pool that was filled with lube and oil, what did you do with the pool? I don't know what happened to the pool, honestly. Well, when there was that pool and oil, did you get into that pool? I did with my outfit, my shoes. It was quite dangerous. Who, if anyone asked you to get into the pool? Sean. It was his idea. Did you want to get into the pool of baby oil? No. Especially not in a hotel room like that. It was such a mess. It was like, what are we doing? Yeah. Why did you get into the pool with baby oil? At that point I couldn't say no. It would have been bad. Yeah. I don't. Yeah. When you say bad, what do you mean? What concerns did you have about not getting, getting into the pool with baby oil? That amongst other things. Just his temper. If that is something that he wanted, Shaun wanted to happen, that's what's going to happen. There wasn't any other way around it. And now with the Astroglide and baby oil, Cassie explains that if they ran out of it, what would happen when you ran out of it? We would either call somebody, staff to bring it or ask the bell desk and give them a tip. When you say staff, what staff are you talking about? Sean's staff. Which members of Sean's staff would resupply the hotel rooms assistance usually before leaving the hotel. What, if anything did you do to clean up the linens you described? I mean there wasn't really too much you could do but just give a good tip and hope that they would help out. I would just try to clean up what I could. Usually like an assistant or staff or somebody would come, I believe after. She says that in fact sometimes they would get so many charges for the damage in the room, which completely understandable that the hotels would do that. She says that she heard through conversations with some of Combs staff members and she doesn't remember the exact number, but there have been numbers circulating tens of thousands of dollars. Yeah.
- [72:48]
Alex Fine
Because I imagine they have to like rip up the carpet, replace things, the.
- [72:52]
Stephanie Su
Furniture and the walls.
- [72:54]
Alex Fine
Yeah.
- [72:56]
Stephanie Su
I remember specifically hearing like a number that was crazy. It was having to redecorate the room. It was like a really high number to fix it.
- [73:04]
Alex Fine
That's so interesting. Like even with that he still choose to go to hotels.
- [73:08]
Stephanie Su
Yeah.
- [73:08]
Alex Fine
In a public. Not public, but like rather than his.
- [73:12]
Stephanie Su
Residence because I guess they're bringing escorts.
- [73:15]
Alex Fine
Right, Right.
- [73:16]
Stephanie Su
Are you aware which hotel charged that really high number? The Intercontinental Hotel in New York. Which Side note, Cassie says once the freak offs became her job, Combs would just tell her what to do. And pretty quickly over time, she says, I knew that it wasn't something that I wanted to be doing. Especially as regularly as it became but again, I was just in love and I wanted to make him happy. And I didn't really know what no would like, what no could turn into. What do you mean by that? Making him angry, very honestly. Also making him uncomfortable that I knew this thing and that I no longer wanted to do it. Ultimately, at that point, Shawn controlled a lot of my life. Whether it was my career, the way I dressed, like, everything, everything. And I just didn't feel like I had much say in it at that time. Being like super, really young, naive, total people pleaser. I didn't know if he would be upset enough to be violent or if he would write me off and just not want to be with me at all. Eventually, Cassie says there's the element that she was scared that there was also so much blackmail material. She basically felt like, quote, if I didn't do it, that it would be hung over my head in that way or that these things would become public. Which, from my angle and perception, it looks like Combs is shaking his head lightly, which I feel like he does this often when he wants to either show the jury that he doesn't believe what she's saying or a strong like, no, this isn't what happened. It's like a very, like, now why would she say that? Like, no, I disagree. This is crazy that she's saying that. He doesn't do that. When it's discussing violence or even parts of the freak offs itself. That's what's very interesting. It's always like moments like this.
- [74:56]
Alex Fine
Blackmail.
- [74:57]
Stephanie Su
Yeah. And then there was another point which it's like the same slightly similar questions. So I didn't include it because, I mean, the direct examination was over the span of two days. It's over 10 hours. But in one point she says, like, he has a lot of resources and like, he was just shaking his head.
- [75:15]
Alex Fine
No, I wonder if it has because it's so related to the RICO charge and trafficking, maybe blackmail.
- [75:22]
Stephanie Su
And so he's just shaking his head lightly. And she says initially that these videos were recorded on like small tape filled cameras. And then eventually it morphed into iPhones, iPads, computers. They were recorded on both Cassie and Combs devices, which sometimes they would later watch the videos together. Cassie says, I would watch them with Shawn afterwards when we usually when we were having intimate relations. But I also, if I saw them and I was on my own, I was deleting them. She says if she sees a video on her phone, she's erasing it. I mean, she's asked, why did you Delete the video that you found on your devices. It's humiliating, disgusting. I never wanted anyone to see me like that. It just was not okay for me. And I felt like it was just tossed around. Like, the idea of it was tossed around. Like, it was nothing like objectifying me and putting me in these really compromising, gross positions with strangers that I just. She says that she would frequently ask Combs to delete the videos on his devices, especially because so many assistants, staff members, members just constantly have access to his phone and his computer. But he would just threaten to blackmail her with them. Whenever he was upset about something. She says, quote, he just wanted to hurt me. How frequently did he bring up the freak off videos to you? I mean, once is too much, but several times. Cassie says that she was so scared that he would be mad enough to put them out. And then I would have to answer to my mother. Like, I just feared for my career. I feared for my family. Just embarrassing, all of it. It's horrible and disgusting. Like, no one should do that to anyone. It could ruin everything that it worked for. Just make me look like a slut. I would be shamed. Like, I wasn't supposed to be on those videos. She's saying. Like, she didn't even want to be there. I mean, the leverage of having an incriminating or derogatory humiliating video of someone telling them they're going to release it if you don't behave the way that they want you to or whatever the case may be. It was just always like that. That like that. That was a big part of our relationship. Just got a new puppy or kitten. Congrats. But also, yikes. Between crates, beds, toys, treats, and those first few vet visits, you've probably already dropped a small fortune. Which is where Lemonade Pet insurance comes in. It helps cover vet costs so you can focus on what's best for your new pet. The coverage is customizable, sign up is quick and easy, and your claims are are handled in as little as three seconds. Lemonade offers a package specifically for puppies and kittens. Get a'@lemonade.com pet. Your future self will thank you. Your pet won't. They don't know what insurance is. If you share a fridge with someone, Instacart can make grocery shopping so much easier. With family carts, you'll share a cart and each add what you need. Between the two of you, odds are you'll remember everything. So no more milkless cereal. Minimize the stress of the weekly shop with family carts. Download the Instacart app and get delivery in as fast as 30. Enjoy zero dollar delivery fees on your first three orders. Service fees apply for three orders in 14 days. Excludes restaurants. She says for example, they went to Cannes Film Festival and this was in her lawsuit. But on their flight back home, it was a commercial flight where there's a lot of other people nearby. Combs was clearly upset with her of a fight that they had in Cannes. He pulls up his laptop and starts playing a video. It's a video that she thought she deleted of a freak off.
- [78:53]
Alex Fine
Oh, yeah.
- [78:55]
Stephanie Su
And he essentially, I mean, it's insinuated that he forced her to watch it the entire way back. She said when they landed in New York, they ended up going to dinner and they had a freak off. She said, honestly, at that point, whatever was going to make him not be angry at me and threatening me, I was willing to do. Yeah, I just didn't want to feel scared anymore. And one thing he made me feel like it was something I was good at. That was on top of the fact that he was violent with her. Like the violence was always in the back of her mind. Interestingly, she testifies that the conversation about freak offs happens around the same time that the relationship starts getting violent. So it's relatively close together. She's asked, why did you agree to a freak off? And okay, this is where I do think that Cassie is trying really hard to be honest because there are moments like this where she's so candid and she just says, that's a great question. I wanted to make him happy. I was in a really significantly mature relationship that I don't think I was prepared for now when I look at it. But yeah, I loved him. I didn't want him to think that I thought anything bad of him for it. I just wanted to make him happy. She says that the best thing that she could do basically was just try to disassociate during the freak. I just felt like it was all I was good for to him. I just felt pretty horrible about myself. I felt disgusting. I was humiliated. I didn't have those words to like put together at the time. Like how horrible I really felt. And I didn't. I couldn't talk to anyone about it, so. So she had to use drugs during every freak off to disassociate and numb herself. She said it would be a range of ecstasy, marijuana, ketamine, ghb, sometimes mushrooms, just whatever there was later, cocaine. And it was always John providing the drugs at the freakoffs. And Prosecutor Johnson brings It back to the urination because I think there were maybe some things that were a little bit confusing about it. And she's asking like, why didn't you say anything when you didn't want to be urinated on? She says, I mean, in that moment I was squeamish immediately and high. And in the moment with this man, I mean, that's what happened. That's not a whole lot of control you have at that point of taking that many drugs and being laid on the floor with two men standing over you peeing on. You could have gotten up and screamed, I guess. Why didn't you say no when that happened? I thought that it was obvious that I didn't want to do it, I guess. She's asked, how much time out of your week did freak offs take? It would depend on how long they were. They ranged anywhere between 36, 48 to 72 hours. I feel like the longest one was ever was over four days, maybe even more like on and off with breaks. So it was a significant part of the week.
- [81:37]
Alex Fine
Week 36 being the lowest.
- [81:40]
Stephanie Su
Yeah. And this was happening once a week. She says that the average freak off would last two to three days and she would be awake the full time that it's happening on drugs. The longest one that she remembers was four days. She says, quote, I often would try to speed it up if anyone wasn't really paying attention. So to further break down the freak offs, Cassie explains there's like acts to it it and each one of them is sessions. So each time that an escort ejaculates is a session. But there's multiple sessions throughout the span of 36 to 72 hours. But there's acts within the sessions. So the first act of the session would be self pleasuring while looking at each other. This is what she's saying. When you say looking at each other, who would you be looking at? I would be looking at the escort and they would be looking at me. I would describe what I saw in detail and. And yeah, that's kind of how the beginning went. Why would you describe what you saw in detail? That's what turned Shawn on. That was his fantasy. So. Yeah. How did you feel about describing what you were doing in the masturbation step of the session? I mean, it was just always pretty awkward. I'm a pretty laid back person. So, like sitting there and describing somebody's penis to another male was just awkward and pretty humiliating. But eventually it just became normal. Did you want to be describing what you were doing intimately? No, I did not what was the next step in the session. Self pleasure was just continued to put oil on, eventually get to each other, the escort and I, and actually start touching each other. That would eventually lead to oral activities. When you moved to touching the escort, how would you know when to move from self pleasuring to touching the escort? More often than not, I would ask if it's okay for me to. She would ask Sean, it was his fantasy. He was controlling the whole situation. He was directing it, he was doing the lighting, he was telling us where to be, what to say, how to act in the room. I would just try to speed the process along. It was personally, if I get it done that it's over and then we move on to the next thing. And I just wanted it to be over. And after the oral intimacy, what typically was the next step that would lead to intercourse? And depending on the familiarity with the escort, sometimes Sean and the escort would both have intimate relations with me or doing something at the same time. Sometimes Sean would just watch when you say that he'd be doing something with you at the same time. What is that something? If I was having intercourse with an escort, he would walk up and have me give him oral activities. It was just like a lot happening at once. Cassie also in a now viral moment, is asked about when the escorts would finish. Usually they would finish like wherever Sean instructs and when it was okay for them per Sean, but if they did, they would usually do it on her. And then her and Sean would go into the next room. So usually they get hotel suites. So I'm assuming all of this is happening in the living room because they're covering the couch with the linen. They would do go into the bedroom inside the hotel suite. And this is the now viral moment where she says Sean and I would go into the next room and he would want me to put the fluid on his body. Sean was usually right there directing it where it could be. So she states they go in there and she would transfer the substance from her body to quote, usually on his chest, on his nipples. She says that if the escorts would would finish before they were told, they would get paid less. And she's also asked, when you say you wanted it to be over, what are you referring to? The freak off session. More often than not, would just want to be able to go to the other room where I could just spend time alone with Sean. When you say get to the other room where you could spend time alone, who was in the room where you were spending time alone? Just me and Sean and the individual stages that you described, how long typically did each of those stages last? Felt like forever. One thing could be hours, honestly, depending on how high we were. Yeah. How would Sean react when you try to speed up the process? He would tell me to slow it down or tell both me and the escort to slow it down. I could often, like, if I left the room to use the bathroom, I could hear Sean telling the escort to slow it all down because I usually just wanted to hurry. Besides asking you to slow down, were there occasions where you had to start a stage over if you move too quickly? Yeah, we would go back to square one. Approximately how many sessions would you have with one escort during a freak off? I would say at least two or three. But a freak off could be three to four different men. And when more than one escort was present, how did the intimacy proceed? Just like it was very like porn, like explicit materials. It was just like I was an object being heavily objectified by men in that scenario. Just having to be the only female in the room, like with all the sexual stuff, it Just having to entertain one more person, make sure one more person is satisfied. Yeah. During these sessions, where was Shawn physically relative to you and the escort? If he wasn't involved, he would just be like outside the room, kind of covered up, not seeing. You could just hear his voice or in the corner. If he was involved, he would be right next to us. If Sean was in the corner of the room, what was he generally doing there? He was generally self pleasuring and just talking. What kinds of things did he say? He just asked me how the other party's private part felt. Like, what it looked like, how it felt. This is so awkward. She says that sometimes if he wasn't in the room, he would quote. There was like a couple of occasions where he said he wanted to watch from a different room where he would set up like my phone and his phone would be on Facebook time so he could watch while he wasn't like present in the actual room. So I was still expected to do the same thing even though he wasn't there. She says that if he actually left though, and they weren't on FaceTime, everything would stop. She's like, I don't want to do this. Like, get off of me. Basically. So it's like clear it's a performance for him. It's not something that continues. If she's like, oh, if he's not watching. No, like, I don't want to be doing this. She also is like stating, I've Never reached out to any of these escorts without showing and like his guidance, basically. Like, I've never tried to form relationships with them. I've never tried to meet them alone. Like, nothing. Also, there was another issue during freak offs. What difficulty, if any, did escorts have in getting or maintaining stimulated down there? It was actually pretty frequent with people that we didn't know well. Yeah. And they would express it like it's like every time Sean would talk, it would just throw them off or if he moved a candle or, you know, it's distracting, I guess. What did Sean do when escorts were having trouble with maintaining stimulation down there? He would give them a pep talk.
- [88:29]
Alex Fine
Pep talk. What does that mean? Like, you got this.
- [88:33]
Stephanie Su
Yeah, yeah. Were there any occasions where the Sean offered the escorts drugs, like Viagra? Yes. She also states that he pressured her to take it and it made her feel quote, sensitive and engorged. She states that she did not want to take it and there was just a lot of things that she really hated doing that she was mentioning, especially kissing. So Witness two said the same thing. She said, I was really against kissing. I just felt like it was too intimate. But it still happened anyway. Like she told Sean, she says that it made her squeamish and he would still request it on different occasions. The only part of the freak offs that she enjoyed are the times that she could spend with him. And I think that this is where the direct examination and keeps bringing in text messages to show like there are times where she initiates a freak off and she's trying to explain the only reason I initiated a freak off is so that I could spend time with him alone. It was the only way that he would spend time with me alone. She says, as sad as it was, I thought like it was the only time I could get. She said, I definitely brought up not wanting to do freak offs but gently because I didn't want to make. Make him upset or angry with me for even sharing it. But I just treaded lightly when I would bring it up. Sometimes I would email him about it. Like I didn't want to. I just didn't want anything to happen. When you say you didn't want anything bad to happen, what do you mean by that? Violent, but also him just being like, okay, well I'll just find somebody else to do it with. Like, you know, when you really care about somebody and you're in love with them, you don't want to disappoint them. So she also, she keeps bringing this up throughout, like the 10 hours she just keeps saying she never wanted him to feel embarrassed or, like, made fun of or insecure about his fantasies.
- [90:23]
Alex Fine
Yeah. Yeah.
- [90:24]
Stephanie Su
Which is interesting because witness two also testified he didn't like being looked in the eye. So it seems like. I don't know. There's. There's like. Lots of. A lot of people have been psychoanalyzing some of the stuff. I don't think I'm qualified. But I will say it's probably very complicated. Some people are even speculating if there were any sort of childhood incidents that would have led to this. I've seen a lot of that online. I truly don't know. I don't know if any of that is going to be revealed during the next seven weeks. But it is very interesting. I would say, as a result of freak offs, what, if any, medical issues did you experience? I had a lot of stomach issues and like, gastrointestinal issues from taking drugs. I also would get frequent UTIs, which are, if you had one, you know how painful it is just stopping you there. Ms. Ventura, what does UTI stand for? Urinary tract infection. So how frequently did you get these UTIs? When we were having frequent freak offs, it was sometimes like they were back to back. Sometimes I couldn't get rid of it and I was actually doing the freak off with an infection. She says it was very painful. It varied. I tried to flush it out. Just drink tons of water, cranberry juice, cranberry pills. I got to the point where cpro. I think it's like an antibacterial medicine that you take for UTIs. It didn't even work anymore. Yeah, it's just like a mess. Like really painful for a long time. I. I actually can't believe that I actually dealt with that. How did you feel to have sex while you had a ut? I mean, horrible. It's the most uncomfortable burning. I wouldn't advise it. There's text messages entered into evidence where Combs is asking Cassie about her vocals. And she says they're good. I have all these sores on my tongue, so it's kind of uncomfortable. And I think I have another uti. How's your day? Cassie explains her text to the jury. She says, occasionally I would get sores on my tongue from the freak offs, the taking drugs, substances, and. And just friction in my mouth. What was the friction in your mouth from? From oral activities. Also having my mouth on things where there was oil and astroglide and lubricants. How did the mouth sores you would get feel? Just stinging and uncomfortable combs. Text Cassie back. I'm good. Shit. Need you to go to the doc.
- [92:42]
Alex Fine
How's Cassie's, like, energy or demeanor during this whole or most of this?
- [92:50]
Stephanie Su
I don't know how she did it. I don't know how she did it. I mean, I saw my sister when she was pregnant. Twice the amount of just emotional turmoil she was in on a daily basis. Because it's just science. Like, that's how the brain chemistry and, like, all these chemicals work inside the body, the hormones. She. I think. I don't know how she did it. Her voice was steady. She didn't sound like she's overly trying to get sympathy. She didn't sound like woe is me. She didn't sound angry. She just sounded like, I'm about to tell you guys genuinely how I felt. And that's all I can do at this point. That's the feeling I got. It didn't even feel like she was trying to convince the jury of one thing or another. Felt like, I am going to answer the questions as honestly as possible. And there would be moments where she would be asked a question and she would be. She would start her answer and then she would say, I'm sorry, could you repeat the question? And so I heard some people saying, maybe it's pregnancy brain. Right. But when I was watching her answering a lot of these questions, it felt like she, in certain questions, maybe went back to that time period, period. And then I don't know if maybe she's having flashbacks. I mean, physically, she doesn't look like, oh, my God, I'm so traumatized. But it just. It just was interesting. Like, it seemed like she was in the moment. There were also other times where I don't know why this, like, made me so sad. She was talking about the Intercontinental Hotel and just how Sean was dragging her. The way she describes it is so emotionless and very like, it is what it is. Like he was just dragging me and kicking me. Yeah. Like, it's very like. It is what it is. That is what happened. I would say there's a lot of times throughout where her voice shakes or she grabs a tissue, but there's twice when she gets very emotional. One is in the direct and one is actually in the cross or, like, the redirect. But she said I'd pedal PTSD episodes. I know Sean was concerned that I was having seizures, sleepwalking quite a bit. My body was in my mind. My body was telling me that I needed to just chill out. A text message thread from June 15, 2013 is entered into evidence. In it, Cassie text Combs, your sex makes me high. No, like literally. I feel like I took a painkiller lol. During the relationship with Shawn, who did you want to have intimate relationships? I wanted to have intimate relations with him. Did you want to have intimate relations with escorts? No. But after that, Combs responds back in the text, dope. I was thinking about a freak off but I need to be focused. She responds, lol. I've been thinking about one too. We were pretty focused last time. Just has to be the right people or person. She says that this just was the normal way to respond when he brings up freak offs. She never wanted him to think that she didn't want it to it. Approximately how many freak offs in total did you have with Sean? It's impossible to know. Hundreds. She says that yeah, the violence, the blackmail is also scary, but she just desperately wanted to be loved by him. She says her voice is relatively the same throughout the direct, like I said, but maybe it's the word that she uses and I don't know if maybe I just like relate to it for some other odd reason. She said, I really fell in love with him. I traveled with him everywhere I was in the studio. I was just like a little shadow. Cassie says immediately on dating, Combs just starts ripping into her appearance. She says he would say anything from I look too Mexican with my hair like that to I needed to have my nails done a certain way. I mean he would clown my chipped nail polish and dirty sneakers. That was like a thing. But appearance was very important to him. My appearance, it varied on what he wanted me to dress like, depending on what was going on. Some days he would want me to be really sexy and be his woman and then other days I could be on my tomboy looks and stuff like that. But he was very involved in it. You mentioned your nails earlier. How did Sean say he wanted your nails to look? He preferred them to be white. So I know some of you guys didn't get the context when I said Tenny Garrigos, the lead defense attorney, had white nail polish on. And I do think that Nicole Westmoreland, if I'm not mistaken, either it's like a baby, baby, baby pink or it's white, they've got white nail polish. She says he preferred them being white from the beginning of our relationship. They just always had to be done for sure. But specifically during the freak offs, like white or French tip. In the lawsuit, she states that the white she he liked the Contrast from usually the black male body parts. What else, if anything, did Sean say he wanted you to do with your physical appearance? I mean, we had discussions about breast implants and just tons of conversations about my body. There'd be comments about working out or just like keeping my shape a certain way when there wasn't. There wasn't much there to begin with. So with her 10 album deal with Bad Boy Records, Cassie says, and this is clearly verifiable, she only releases one album. And even from a public perspective, her career, she was on a high with me and you and then she gets signed with Bad Boy Record Records. She says it feels intentional. She feels like every day she was just doing busy work, work that would keep her in the studio. She's making hundreds of songs, none of them are getting released. It's like he's stalling her career. He's making her full time job freak offs. She's saying music wouldn't come out. But also I would get a lot of opportunities that I would come through that I just, I was told not to participate in, be it a modeling campaign, which was something that I actually did before music or a Runway show. Those are things I just had to say no to to. And Sean advised her to say no. So this is just stalling her entire career. I mean, she's even asked very candidly in the direct, why did you not release another album during this time? And she just leans into the mic and she goes, you're asking me? Cassie testifies one of Combs managers who is also managing her told her that he's managing her with one hand tied behind his back.
- [99:11]
Alex Fine
The manager couldn't do anything about it.
- [99:13]
Stephanie Su
Yeah. So her whole life is just preparing for a freak off, doing her nails, getting a wax, getting a tan, getting all the supplies, the baby oil, getting the hotel, finding the escort, making that sure that Sean approves them, then participating in the freak off and then recovering from the freak off. I mean, that's a whole week.
- [99:30]
Alex Fine
And this lasted like more than a decade.
- [99:33]
Stephanie Su
Yeah.
- [99:33]
Alex Fine
And there are public figures that's actually being seen all the time, but nobody knew for a decade.
- [99:41]
Stephanie Su
There were actually gossip columns that called her a gold digger. They made it seem like, oh, she was an aspiring musician, got with a billionaire and then is now just living the good life. She said emotionally, after the freak off, she would just feel really gross and really empty. And so she would just take lots of opioids because, quote, I didn't want to feel what was actually going on in my mind in my real Life in real time. It was just an escape for me. And it's just crazy that she's on the stand testifying. And there would be, like I said, Combs would have different reactions. Sometimes he's like, glasses on, staring at the evidence screen. Sometimes he's like jotting down like he's doing math homework. Sometimes he's just stoic, like a statue, leaned back, watching her. Other times he's turning around and mouthing to the his mom, I love you. Which side note, Janice Combs has an intense vibe. Like I said earlier, she's tiny, terrifying. But the whole time that Cassie is testifying, or a good chunk of it, she's leaned forward, elbows on her knees, intently staring at Cassie, listening to every word. And you know, a lot of, I heard a lot of public say, like, I'm just saying my mom, no matter how much she supports me, I don't think she could hear stuff like, like that She, I, she would be crying. She would, something would happen. She can't just be like, staring down the person on the stand. Cassie talks about how even on her birthday, he forced her into a freak off, which she really begged not to, but it didn't work. And then there were other things that he forced her to do. There is about 10 minutes from the Las Vegas strip. There's a very distinct green hued building in a strip mall. It looks like it could be a Petsmart, but it's green, emerald green. It looks like an Arcade. It's 18,000 square feet. Once you walk in, there's like a menu board. Sunday through Thursday. Couples $70, weekends $80. Single males, $92 to $120. Single females, $26. No open toed shoes, no athletic wear. You must be 18 to enter. Once you get inside, there's like a few interesting rooms, the most interesting being called the shadow room, where you just see silhouettes of people moving and doing things. It is one of the older, more well known sex clubs in Las Vegas called the Green Door. Cassie testifies that she was taken to these sex clubs and sometimes they would bring escorts and he would also watch at these clubs and she just did not want to be there at all, like at all. Oh, and then another point that I thought was important was this is what I mean by I feel like she's candid. Like, I feel like she's trying to be very honest. There's this point where she talks about how one of the escorts, Jules, comes to the club with them and she's asked, did you want to have intimate relations with Jules? And she said, no, no, not at the club. No, no. Did you want to have intimate relations with Jules ever? And she goes, no, no. And, like, her laugh is kind of confusing at first, but then she explains Jules, like, within all of it, it was like a safe place. I saw him a lot. We actually had our own friendship. So being able to have intimate relations with Jules instead of somebody at the club was. It was better than somebody I didn't know if that makes sense. But I think the way, like, she even answers no, it's like, when you talk about your best guy friend, it's like, oh, no, no, no. Like, whoa. It's like, oh, gosh.
- [103:11]
Alex Fine
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [103:12]
Stephanie Su
So it seems like she's, like, feeling a lot of the questions being asked instead of being like, no. Yeah.
- [103:19]
Alex Fine
And everything she said, like, makes sense. Right. Like, I think if you have somewhat understanding of how these type of situation works, you can see how and why this happened.
- [103:29]
Stephanie Su
Yeah. I think it's just complicated because there's so many elements. I think it's like everything is a building block. It's the age gap. It's when they met. It's the power dynamic. It's like everything is a building block. And when you only take out one building block and say, hey, look, it's like, obviously.
- [103:47]
Alex Fine
And I was even thinking, like, she started, you know, they met Night Team, and then the free cough started when she was 22. And then every single time, she was completely drugged up for days on end.
- [103:58]
Stephanie Su
Yes.
- [103:59]
Alex Fine
Just the drugs alone for days on end at that young age, for that many years is already changing everything in her brain chemistry.
- [104:09]
Stephanie Su
Yeah.
- [104:09]
Alex Fine
So just that alone, you cannot say that she is a person that can, you know, know, make decisions on her free own will. Right. Like, it's.
- [104:17]
Stephanie Su
It's just I did see some comments echoing that sentiment. I saw a lot of people on Reddit talking about, technically, they believe. Right. And it's not really up to us. It's up to the jurors, but they believe that's, like, a good point for sex trafficking, because a lot of sex traffickers will actually get their victims addicted to drugs and make them feel like they need to take these drugs so that they can get through the forced work, the trafficking, if you will. So I think the drugs do play a big element into it. I just, again, we're not the ones. It's the jurors. She recounts the first time that he was ever violent with her. They were at a party. They were at this dinner with a lot of Other people. And she had seen him flirting with somebody. And there was another person that looked at Cassie and was like, oh, like they saw that. She saw it. And she just shrugged her shoulders, like, whatever, because what is she supposed to do? And when they get into the car, she says, quote, he knocked me around and was just really mean. His security driver was in the car too, but, quote, he hit me in the side of my head and I fell to the floor of the car we were in. His Escalade just shook me up and scared me quite a bit to the point where I was just trying to get out of the car. I was just shocked. I didn't necessarily understand what happened and why he was so angry, except for the little bit he was. He said he was, like, hitting me in the car. And I don't know, I just hid out at home after that. She also does recount there was a time that she did fight back. They were at an Ace of Diamonds Club and she remembers that they were leaving. She had been talking to a producer about music. He called her a slut or a bitch or something. They get in the car and she punched him in the face. She had never hit him before. She said she punched him the. At the face. And she said she punched him as hard as she could punch him, basically. What was Shawn's response after you hit him? His whole demeanor just switched over. I remember his eyes went black. It was just like we were in an Escalade, but the two sitting in the middle, the two seats that are separate from each other with the windows down. And we had a friend kind of like following us back to the house. So all of that went down with the windows down. And I punched him. He attacked me. And I was like, basically underneath the back seat in the Escalade, just trying to cover my face. And Sean was stomping on my face with his foot. How long did Sean stomp on your face with his foot? The ride back to the house was short, but, I mean, the whole ride was a fight until we got there. Probably like a 10 minute up the hill from the party. It was just me trying to defend myself and cover myself up. I was just being. I mean, I never experienced anything like that before, like getting that badly beaten. And for her to say that after the Intercontinental Hotel, like, to say, like, shift. She never had been that badly beaten and we don't know. She says when they finally get to Sean's house, I just took off running. I started running down the street, but security catches up to her, brings her Back to the house. And she looked in the mirror and she said she didn't even recognize herself. Knots bleeding, everything was swollen. She said, I just looked horrible. And then shortly after, Sean came in and he saw me. I think I was vomiting when he came in. And he kind of of like that person was now gone. And it switched over, like, freaking out of sight. And he basically said I had to sneak out of the house, out of the back with the security and go to a hotel and just stay there to recover.
- [107:33]
Alex Fine
Oh, that was the hiding in hotel incident.
- [107:36]
Stephanie Su
Yeah. The government also brings up another exhibit which shows Cassie's eyebrow being completely. I mean, it's a pretty bad wound. The cut looks pretty deep with shades of pink. So it's like pinky flesh, like different shades of pink.
- [107:51]
Alex Fine
Wait, what do you mean? A picture of a close up of.
- [107:53]
Stephanie Su
Her eyebrow and there's like, maybe. Ooh.
- [107:57]
Alex Fine
Is this like a never seen before photo from.
- [107:59]
Stephanie Su
Yes. This is like, so oddly specific, you know, like the USB c. The silver part. So not the actual, like, plug in, just the metal part that you stick into your iPhone?
- [108:10]
Alex Fine
Yes.
- [108:10]
Stephanie Su
It's like a little bigger than that. And it's. There's like pink flesh and it's like slightly different colors of pink. And then in the middle, it's almost like. So it's a very deep wound and it looks bad. And it's deep enough that she went to a plastic surgeon's office in Beverly Hills to suture it. And it's just evidence of one of the many violent fights that she had to endure during all of this. There were other times they were supposed to go to Canada. She was not packing. She had fallen asleep. And then he basically threw her and she hit her head on the bed frame. And when that picture is shown, Alex, Fine, Cassie's husband is looking and staring at the Combs family. And it's like, I think I would feel the same way of, like, look at the picture. Like, look at what he did. Like, I want you to. I would imagine it would be like, look at what he did. And I want to see if this is normal to you. I would want to know their reaction of, like, if you have no reaction, is it because this happens all the time? Is this what you guys are just used to? But what's crazy is that I looked over and it wasn't a member of the Combs family, but it was a friend of the Combs. And he. He's like, asleep. I mean, like, full. I'm talking like, REM sleep.
- [109:16]
Alex Fine
Like, head on the Table type of sleep.
- [109:18]
Stephanie Su
Yeah, he has like his elbow on the ledge of the pew and like his face is resting on his hand and his eyes are, his eyes are closed and he was dozing off. And so I, I just imagine if Alex Fine is looking at that. I mean, yeah, I just imagine that's a lot of emotions. Cassie sends a picture of her eyebrow, two combs in a text message which is also entered into the exhibit. But he responds, you don't know when to stop. You have pushed it too far and continue to push. Sad. Cassie responds, just say sorry. Have some sympathy. I came in saying sorry and I didn't even know I deserved that. You could care less if I was okay. She still has a permanent scar on her face from that and she covers it with makeup. How many times has Shawn been violent with you before? Who knows? And clearly security for all these people working for co according to Cassie, they knew. She says drock. One of the security guys, he cried once when he saw her with a giant golf ball sized knot on her forehead and black eyes. Cassie says Sean Combs even held one of her friends off of her 17th floor balcony. Just like held her over the balcony. She says she saw it and said, I saw him bring her back over the railing of the balcony and then throw her onto the patio furniture. Even Carrie Morgan, who is Cassie's best friend of 17 years. Years. What was. They got into an altercation. Sean Combs allegedly hit Carey Morgan on the head with a wooden hanger and Carey Morgan and Cassie had a falling out because of that. And so it's just like Cassie's testifying that everything in her life is controlled by him. He would rent her homes near his home. They would barge in anytime. She's not answering the phone. It was just everything. If he was upset with her, he would take away her car, he would take away her jewelry, her gifts, which she doesn't even care about. She said it was just very random. But the worst thing that he took away was my self confidence. I mean just physical things are physical things. But at that point, to me the physical things didn't really matter. I really just wanted his approval. She said, I mean the greatest and most complicated and greatest examples are the abuse because like I almost, I also felt at certain times when I knew that it wasn't even about me and yeah, like make the wrong face. And the next thing I knew I was getting hit in the face. It was like, you know, if I wasn't smiling at him the way he wanted, if I just looked a Certain way that he didn't, like maybe I was a brat or something. Like, he would let me know I need to fix my face or watch my mouth. That was like, those were the things that were said in our relationship. Quite often, fix your face, watch your mouth, or you have a slick mouth. Now, there was another exhibit that was entered in by the government, which is a text message between. Between Sean Combs and Cassie where he says he's just asking for another freak off. And Cassie responds, that is all we do. And I'm just getting back on track. I'm sure you can call Kim or something.
- [112:05]
Alex Fine
Oh, Kim Porter.
- [112:06]
Stephanie Su
Yeah. So that was a moment where I feel like there was a lot insinuated but not a lot proven or explained.
- [112:14]
Alex Fine
Huh. Oh, they didn't dive more into it. She said, I'm sure you can call Kim or something. Something. And we don't know what Sean said. Okay.
- [112:23]
Stephanie Su
I mean, I think he just bypassed it. But like I'm saying, there was not a lot confirmed in the sense of like, okay. There were allegations by certain bodyguards and people that were speaking out to the media, that were inside sources and close sources of the Combs family and team. And they had mentioned that perhaps Kim was also part of whether willing or unwilling to these activities. So that text message was interesting. But eventually, August of 2018, the two finally do break up. Cassie just couldn't do it anymore. And they finally have a closure dinner in Malibu. Cassie was already seeing her husband at the time, Alex. They were no longer dating her and Sean. This was just closure and it was nice. She said he was just being really nice, playful, laughing, kind of romantic vibes, sort of. But we were just normal laughing. It ended with him bringing me home. And yeah, that was it. We went inside, went in the living room. He came in, pretty usual, nothing weird. And. And then. Then he raped me in my living room floor. How did you physically react when Combs raped you? I just remember crying and saying no, but it was very fast. So what, if anything, did you observe about Shawn's physical appearance? Just like black eyes. I kind of said that before. Just wasn't himself. The laughing and like all the things that were happening before, that was not there. And it was just like somebody taking something from you, just without. You said that you cried. What did he do when you cried? He continued. I don't even know if he noticed, honestly. He continued, finished, and then he got up and left. After the R word in your living room, were you intimate with Sean again? I was once more, but by choice. Can you explain to the jury why you agreed to see him again after the assault. We've been together for over 10 years. Like, you don't just turn feelings off that way. We were very connected at that point. Still, I still had good vision of who he was as a person. Like, I didn't hate him. March 1, 2019. So a few months afterwards, Combs texts Cassie. I'll pull up and handle it face to face, no threat facts. And you will not be threatening me. You have too many iPads full of skeletons. If I was you, I would get me my money because we both have better things to do with our lives. I really don't want no problems. I got it from here. I. I tried. Cassie is explaining that Sean wants his money back since the man that Cassie moves on with her now husband, Alex Fein, was the personal trainer that Diddy had hired for her. So I guess he had paid her for sessions and then they started having a relationship. So he didn't like that. He wanted the money.
- [114:52]
Alex Fine
What money?
- [114:53]
Stephanie Su
I guess that he had paid Alex fine for the personal training sessions. At this point, like Combs, his glasses on, face all close to the evidence screen, intently reading. Cassie responds. Do you want me to tell the truth? It's way deeper than iPads. This is her text message. They talk on and off, here and there, but not much. But in 2023, Cassie talks about how she goes to rehab. She says, I was spinning out and I didn't. I didn't want to be alive anymore at that point. So this is where she gets incredibly emotional. I was actually shooting a music video with another artist and I just kept having these horrible flashbacks. And after the video shoot, I went home and it was like super, super late and my kids were asleep. My husband was there. And I just remember telling him, like, you can do this without me. Like, you don't need me here anymore. Right? And like, while she's explaining this, Combs is just elbow on his chair, kind of touching his chin. Cassie takes a moment and then continues. I couldn't take the pain that I was in anymore, so I just tried to walk out the front door into oncoming traffic, and my husband would not let me. So she goes to rehab. And it's in rehab as a way of dealing with her trauma. She tries to write a book. Not like a book that she's trying to publish, but it's like a book format, like a journal. She just wanted to deliver it to Combs and she did. She sent it to him. She said, I really wanted Sean to Read the information. I wanted him to understand what I had to learn to understand over that period. Why did you want Shawn to read the book? Because I don't think that he understood. I don't think after all those years of begging for, like, sorry and just for him to actually recognize the pain that he put me through. Like, I just wanted him to understand, I think bigger, more than anything, it was his own personal shame in I'm having to carry the things that were shameful to him. What were those things? The sexual part, the freak offs. Like, I took on a lot of the responsibility of that that I never should have. He brought the concept to me when I was 22, and I would do absolutely anything for him, and I did. And it never stopped our whole relationship. And. And it was expected of me. And it made me feel horrible about myself. And I couldn't get. I couldn't get it out. I couldn't face him with it. I was always so numb because that's what I chose to do to get through it. Cassie tries to get Combs the book. Eventually, Combs assistant Christina Coram. I think that she's gonna testify. I'm gonna be so real. I think so. But she gets back to Cassie and is like, yeah, no one's really taking it seriously. I don't even know if he's gonna read it. So the prosecutor actually asks. So other than wanting Sean to read your book, what else, if anything, did you want from Sean? I wanted to be compensated for the time, the pain, and, like, the many, many years of trying to have to fix my life. What, if any, price did you have for the rights of your book? 30 million. Can you explain to the jury how you came up with that figure? I really didn't do any research. I just picked a number that I felt like would alert him. November of 2023, Cassie files a lawsuit against Combs, and within 24 hours, she settles for $20 million. This was speculated but confirmed during her testimony. She has no more pending lawsuits actively against Combs or anyone else relating to her relationship with Combs, at least as of the day of testifying. However, in the next episode, a huge topic of conversation is that it appears that maybe a pending lawsuit had wrapped up within the past month. Without telling me about any discussions with your lawyer. Lawyers. Why are you testifying at this trial? I can't carry this anymore. I can't carry the shame, the guilt, the way I was guided to treat people like they were disposable. What's right is right, and what's wrong is wrong and I'm here to do the right thing. And with that, we're going to head into part two of Cassie's cross examination, part two of her testimony where there were a lot of audible gasps at one point in the courtroom. There were a lot of intense moments and I think, think that episode ties into, I guess like the crazy polarization that's happening on the Internet. It seems like every time I go on the Internet everybody is so divided. So stay tuned and I will see you in the next one. Be safe. Hi, it's Stephanie Su. Wanna listen to new episodes of Rotten Mango ad free? Rotten Mango is now part of SiriusXM's podcast. With SiriusXM's Podcast plus subscription, you'll get this plus benefits on dozens of select podcasts within the SiriusXM network. What are you waiting for? Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcast plus on Apple Podcasts or visit siriusxm.com podcastplus to start your free trial today.