Duggar Parents Caught Son Molesting Underage Sisters & Just Sent Him To Church Camp ‘To Be Fixed’

Summary

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Rotten Mango Podcast Summary

Episode: Duggar Parents Caught Son Molesting Underage Sisters & Just Sent Him To Church Camp ‘To Be Fixed’

Host: Stephanie Soo
Release Date: April 8, 2026

Episode Overview

Stephanie Soo dives deep into the dark reality behind the wholesome facade of the Duggar family, best known for the TLC show "19 Kids and Counting." This episode (Part 2 of the Duggar series) unpacks the evolution of TLC, the Duggar family structure, their fundamentalist religious beliefs, and the shocking truth about Josh Duggar’s molestation of his sisters and how the family and community covered it up. The episode weaves together history, commentary, and first-hand accounts to expose the intersection of media, faith, and crime.

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Key Topics & Discussion Points

1. The Evolution of TLC and the Rise of the Duggars

[02:00 - 12:33]

• TLC began as "The Learning Channel," a government-funded initiative for educational programming.
  • Stephanie: “Turns out, we don’t really enjoy learning…especially not with riveting titles like ‘Learn To Read’. If I don’t know how to read, how am I going to read your title?”
• Over time, TLC shifted toward reality TV, with increasingly sensational shows (e.g., “My Strange Addiction," "Extreme Couponing," "Sister Wives," "Toddlers and Tiaras," "90 Day Fiancé").
• “19 Kids and Counting” quickly became TLC’s record-breaking ratings hit, fueling both fascination and concern over the Duggars’ “wholesome” family image.

2. The Duggar Family: Rules, Dynamics, and Structure

[12:33 - 39:34]

• Main Cast:
  • Jim Bob (Patriarch, reality TV star, failed politician)
  • Michelle (Matriarch, mother of 19, “soft-spoken”)
  • Josh (eldest son, “role model”)
  • All children’s names begin with “J” (Josh, Jana, John David, Jill, Jessa, etc.)
• Homelife:
  • Strict rules: modest dress (girls in long skirts), homeschooling, “buddy system” (girls raising younger siblings).
  • Stephanie, on “Nike” code word: “One of the girls would yell ‘Nike’… All the boys in the family would crane their necks down… because someone out there was showing their shoulders or a butt cheek.”
• Religious culture:
  • Affiliation with fundamentalist Christianity and the Quiverful movement (denied, but practices align).
  • Emphasis on motherhood as “living sacrifice,” discouragement of any birth control.
  • Girls expected to obey; women never have authority over themselves, always transferred from father to husband.

3. Inside the 19 Kids: Roles and Reputation

[25:00 - 34:04]

• Deep dives into each child’s TV persona, family roles, and community perceptions.
  • Example: Jana (the “Cinderella” eldest daughter, expected to raise siblings), Jill (eager to please, later outspoken critic), Jessa (the “outspoken one”), Josiah (“prankster” sent to military-style camp).
• On buddy system: “Basically 11-year-old little girls becoming parents while the boys are off being boys… Jim Bob’s buddy is Michelle because he still needs to be catered to and taken care of like an infantile toddler.” [39:37]

4. Dating, Courtship, and Family Control

[39:34 - 56:13]

• Courtship replaces dating: no physical contact, intensive chaperoning, direct “applications” to parents.
• Jim Bob’s 45+ page questionnaires for potential suitors (including questions like “Would you be willing to die for Christ?”).
• Arranged, expedited marriages; no history of divorce, even amidst criminal allegations.
• Stephanie, critiquing Michelle’s views: “She says… romance novels are to women what pornography is to men… which is crazy.” [49:18]
• Virulent anti-divorce rhetoric; divorce equated with “sever your relationship with Christ.”

5. Jim Bob’s Political Career and Public Persona

[50:53 - 56:13]

• Jim Bob’s failed attempts at political office fueled by culture wars, anti-abortion and anti-LGBTQ stances.
• Associations and alliances with like-minded fundamentalist politicians (notably Jim Holt).
• Stephanie: “Jim Bob’s career is a car crash straight into the Capitol. But he hasn’t even made it in the car—the car is driving itself and he’s just like chasing after it.” [50:54]
• Jim Bob and allies’ “traditional values” platforms hide hypocrisy, as the scandal unfolds.

6. The Duggar Scandal: Molestation and Cover-Up

[56:13 - episode end]

• Josh Duggar’s Secret: At 15, Josh molests several younger sisters. The family and religious community choose not to involve authorities—instead, he is sent to work at a friend’s home remodeling business as “rehabilitation.”
• The community and the audience are told nothing; even potential courtship with Jim Holt’s daughter is abruptly canceled when the Holts learn the truth.
• Josh re-emerges in public and quickly courts and marries Anna Keller, whose own family background is also deeply fundamentalist but less affluent.

7. The Anna Duggar Dynamic & Ongoing Enabling

• Anna (Josh’s wife), initially described by acquaintances as loud and opinionated, is observed to “soften” and emulate Michelle Duggar’s whispery passivity after marriage.
• Anna’s lack of independence, continual pregnancies, and marriage to Josh—despite mounting evidence of predatory and criminal behavior—are contextualized by her upbringing and the family’s culture.
• Stephanie: “People describe their relationship as a super fan meets religious royalty. Like, Anna is just obsessed. She has never lived alone. She’s never had a real job. She doesn’t even have a driver’s license.” [60:01]

8. The Ashley Madison Scandal and Aftermath

• Josh’s accounts on Ashley Madison and OKCupid are exposed (evidence he spent thousands seeking affairs while married), but family’s public response is muted and dismissive.
• Stephanie: “If my son is cheating on his wife and their children, I’m not talking to God. My fist is. That’s not condoned. However, I will be very angry.” [62:19]
• Duggar parents treat Josh as a victim of “the Devil’s temptation,” urging forgiveness and marital preservation.

9. The True Horror: Crimes Against Children

• It is revealed that the primary, long-standing reason for Josh’s initial exile was the molestation of his sisters.
• Anna Duggar, and many in the family’s circle, seemingly unaware or willfully ignorant of the abuse at time of marriage.
• The episode closes with the haunting question:

  “Would Anna Duggar still have chosen to stay…if she knew her husband would later be arrested for downloading some of the worst CSAM content...the federal investigation said was one of the worst they had ever seen…?” [65:17]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On TLC’s shift from education to spectacle:
  • Stephanie: “They don’t go from Ready, Set, Learn to Extreme Cougar Wives… they ease into it.” [03:24]
• On the Duggar household:
  • Stephanie: “The family believes that the female body is a tripwire for sin… they would scream ‘Nike,’ and all the boys would look down.” [15:41]
• On the Quiverful movement:
  • Stephanie: "A woman's body is meant to be a living sacrifice... emotionally, physically, financially. A lot of people in the Quiverful movement are living in poverty.” [34:15]
• On Jim Bob’s leadership:
  • Stephanie: “Jim Bob’s buddy is Michelle because he still needs to be catered to… like an infantile toddler.” [39:37]
• On marriage and authority in the Duggars’ world:
  • Anna's dad at wedding: “Josh becomes the authority at the wedding. He becomes her authority, not me. And that’s the way God designed the transfer of authority.” [58:01]
• On the Duggar response to scandal:
  • Stephanie: “Everyone just says, I mean, he’s gotta humble himself before God… even Ben Shapiro tweets, ‘the left don’t target Josh Duggar because he’s a garbage fire. They target him because he advocated Christian values.’ I don’t know how you advocate Christian values when you’re on Ashley Madison, okay?” [63:01]

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Major Timestamps

• 02:00 — TLC’s educational roots and transition to reality TV spectacle
• 12:33 — Introduction to the Duggars and their societal impact
• 15:41 — Strict gender codes and “Nike” system
• 22:23 — Jim Bob and Michelle’s courtship and marriage dynamics
• 25:00 — Individual Duggar children’s roles and reputations
• 34:15 — Deep-dive on Quiverful movement and family planning beliefs
• 39:34 — “Buddy system” and girls’ household burden
• 41:07 — Duggar’s courtship rules and marriage system
• 50:54 — Jim Bob’s failed political ambitions
• 56:13 — The abrupt end to Josh’s first courtship and hints of scandal
• 58:01 — Anna’s transfer of authority at her wedding and marital subjugation
• 62:19 — Family’s evasive response to Josh’s infidelity and bodyguard’s anecdote
• 65:17 — Final reveal of Josh Duggar’s federal arrest for possession of CSAM—"some of the worst that [investigators] had ever seen"

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Tone, Style, and Closing Thoughts

Stephanie Soo intertwines biting wit, incredulity, and compassion as she unpacks one of reality TV’s darkest chapters. The tone oscillates between horror at the Duggars’ abuses, criticism of the fundamentalist structures that enable them, and wry commentary on the absurdities of the “wholesome” reality TV narrative. The episode is packed with research, pop culture references, and behind-the-scenes knowledge, making clear that what was broadcast on TLC was only the sanitized surface of a deeply traumatic legacy.

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End of Summary

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Stands for the Learning Channel.

[A]

The Learning Channel.

[B]

Whoa.

[A]

I know. And it was funded by the Department of Health and NASA to create learning material for people who did not have as much access to schooling. So they would be these little educational videos, hour long videos of teaching people how to read, would be distributed through a free NASA satellite to all the rural areas where there's not a lot of schools set. It was, unsurprisingly Not a profit machine. I mean, turns out we don't really enjoy learning, especially not with riveting titles like Learn to Read. If I don't know how to read, how am I going to read your title? The initiative itself was solid. I mean there were regions in the US with illiteracy rates that were three times the national average. Like genuinely, I think that this was like one of the times the government was maybe in the right place. But because money runs the world, the parent company eventually goes bankrupt and it's no longer being funded. And the Discovery Network swoop in by the Learning Channel and it's now almost defunct. Right. They originally stay on brand. Discovery Channel is like we're just gonna do like slightly more fun. We're gonna release multi part series on literature's most influential works. We're gonna bring in scholars, historians, novelists to come in and comment on pieces like Frankenstein, the Origin of Species, then Paleo World that was a hit, 50 episode series on Dinosaurs. Yeah. Ready, Set, learn preschool programming. And then because money still runs the world, the Discovery Channel starts getting creative. They're like, okay, well maybe it doesn't have to be so informative every second of every time we're on air. Maybe we could just like ease into it. So they do they ease into it. They don't go from Ready, Set, learn to Extreme Cougar Wives which features, you know, people like 76 year old Hattie, she sleeps with men as young as 18 years old and she says things like I'm confident, I'm sexy, I'm loving and I've never had a headache. I always have sex on the first date. You go Hattie. Okay. Then there's Stephanie, not to be confused with me, she's 65, dating a 28 year old. Yeah. And they, that's what they.

[B]

So where the switch, like they just started making some.

[A]

Yes. So they, they had ready, set, learn and then they start doing. You know what we could learn about weddings? A wedding story. Watch real couples get married and learn how to wedding planned. And maybe they do these DIY projects to save money and you can learn the Learning Channel how to do that for your own wedding. Then that transitions into a baby story. Watch real couples give birth and it's medical and it's relationship and you can learn the healthcare system and we can capture their emotional first birth moments. Trading Spaces Neighbors swap home. Okay, this one, I don't know what we're learning from it, but like neighbors would swap homes and then redecorate a room in the neighbor's house with money and a designer's help. There's a viral moment where a designer covered up a homeowner's beloved fireplace with a wooden facade, even though the homeowner explicitly told the show not to and she broke down on camera. They also have while you were out, a family member would decide that your house is disgusting, filthy and ugly. They would lure you out of the house for 48 hours. A team of designers would come in with the Learning Channel and redo the room that they deemed to be fucking filth. It seems like loosely, loosely educational in the sense of like, we want to be voyeurs. But also it was mostly harmless and mostly, most importantly, an advertiser's dream. Then TLC starts transitioning. Their slogans. It was live and learn, life unscripted to finally, everyone needs a little tlc. They dropped the Learning Channel. They're just TLC now and they use it as more like tender loving care. No way. Then it starts to get weird. Honey, we're killing the kids. American version of an existing British show. Nutritionists will come in and they'll bring in a laptop and they're like, this is what your kid is gonna look like at 40 years old if you don't stop feeding them tater tots for breakfast, lunch and dinner. Look at your kid. Isn't your kid so unconventionally unattractive? Doesn't that make you want to scream and die? Then they should eat a salad. And everyone's like, this is actually horrendous when you think about it. Like there is no aspect of this that could be even remotely healthy. They would get a four week boot camp to transform the family's habits and follow up episodes to show how they're gonna look more conventionally attractive now with their new lifestyle. It's just like shaming, okay? There's hoarding, buried alive where they would go to hoarders homes, give them interventions, declutter their homes. 1 Notorious Season 2 members of the crew contracted the very often fatal hantavirus where humans inhale dust that's contaminated by saliva, urine or droppings of infected rodents. The mortality rate is up to 38%. My strange addiction. You know that one. People who like to eat glass mattresses. Participants have come forward to state that there was a lot that was depicted that was just straight up staged and set up. And also like there was no therapy, there was no nothing. Extreme couponing. This is like a whole national scandal that show couponers were would coupon stack to purchase hundreds of dollars of groceries for pennies. The show triggered a surge of extreme couponing and stores blamed the show for coupon fraud. A huge wave of coupon fraud took over America after this show. I believe there were people investigated in regards to coupon fraud because of the show Freaky Eaters. Hey you. You only eat french fries. Welcome to the show Sister Wives where a man has four wives and I believe at one point they all lived in the same cul de sac and he would go from house to to house and he'd be like, on Mondays I stay with Megan. On Tuesdays I go to Terry's house. Outrageous kids parties. Parents would just be spending a lot of money for over the top birthday parties for their children. And just like really oddball shows like Mall Cops where they would follow the security staff at the Mall of America in Minnesota while they deal with shoplifters and people peeing in fitting rooms. Toddlers and Tiaras followed child beauty pageants. That was one of the more controversial ones as you would imagine with the constant sexualization of little children. 90 day fiance, very controversial. Still up and running my 600 pound life. Multiple former cast members have filed lawsuits against the producers. Here comes Honey Boo Boo. That's a whole other situation I could do a whole episode on because Honey Boo Boo's mom ends up staying with a child sex offender. Breaking Amish where they allegedly filmed former Amish people leaving their communities in real time. Social media investigations stated that that was all fake. That these cast members were actually have left their commun years earlier. So the show was not that accurate but more staged. My five wives. Another polygamist seeking sister wives. Another polygamist where now they're like my husband wants another wife. Let's go find the perfect wife. They had a special called My Husband's not Gay which focused on four Mormon or LDS church members who stated that they had SSA same sex attraction and they chose to live in heterosexual marriages because that's in line with their religious beliefs. The men framed their attractions as something they chose not to act on, emphasizing religious conviction and marriage as the priority. Which naturally drew significant backlash and criticism. Pregnant behind bars. Documenting pregnant women in jail and prisons which you know, the anger there was that TLC just did not do enough to advocate for prison reform. My teen is pregnant and so am I. Where mom and teenage daughter and a family would be pregnant at the same time. Unexpected. Another teen pregnancy show, Hot and Heavy where they would document mixed weight couples where plus sized women are in relationships with male thin male partners. But the name of the Show Hot and Heavy feels like the men are hot and the women are heavy. And there's almost always this lingering question in every episode of like, why is he even with her when she's fat? MILF Manor, I believe this is the one, you know, where you had the older woman with the younger men. But so this. They had older women come into the villa where they thought that they were just going to meet a bunch of young hunks, but turns out all the young men that they're gonna date are sons. So they're not going to date their own son. But like the other milf, that's her son and they had these weird segments where the mothers would grope the young men's torsos to identify their own son. But there was one show that was one of the biggest ratings success for TLC, like really unlike any other, and that is 19 kids and counting. The show about the Duggars.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

This show repeatedly, consistently hit new highs on tlc.

[B]

So you said that like, I mean, because I never heard of them. Right, but you were saying most American heard about them in this show.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

I mean, you would know this.

[A]

Leave it in the comments. I knew of the Duggars. I never watched the show. I never kept up with the Duggars. I think maybe because I had a little bit of religious trauma. I don't watch shows like this. But yeah, know a lot of people do. A lot of people that on the RM team, they're like, you don't know the Duggars. You don't know every person of the Duggars.

[B]

I see. But the show is long finished. Right?

[A]

The show ended in 2015 because of what I'm about to talk about. And it's not the Ashley Madison scandal that ends the show. Something worse ends the show.

[B]

Really.

[A]

So this whole show is about Jim Boob. Jim Bob. Okay. His real name is Jim Bob. People call him Jim Boob. People call him Rimjob. People call him Boob. You decide what you want to call him.

[B]

So Jim Bob Duggar is his full name?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

People just call him Jim. Jim Bob.

[A]

They call him Jim Bob.

[B]

Jim Bob.

[A]

Yeah. Then you have Michelle Duggar and they are fundamentalist Christians and they have 19 kids and counting. They had specials before their full blown multi season show and it would be called things like 14 children and pregnant again, raising 16 children on the road with 16 children. Season one of the TLC reality show wasn't even 19 kids and counting. It was 17 kids and counting. And you can put together what happened there. Now, aside from the fact that Michelle duggar herself birthed 19 kids and is, by the Internet's opinion, freakishly fertile, they all live in one house. They've got to make 19 breakfasts, 19 dinners. There's the infamous tater tot casserole. I mean, it's weird, the whole show, the appeal.

[B]

Live in one house.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

With the wife, husband, everybody.

[A]

So the minute that someone gets married, they usually move out. But there was a point in time where most of them were under the same roof.

[B]

Oh, I see, I see.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So when the show was going on, they were younger, so there are still kids. Okay.

[A]

So I think it was like midway through the show that he's the first one to get married. And this was heavily documented. Joshua Duggar gets married. Heavily documented. Anna Duggar is a big part of the show. The whole appeal of this show is it's like watching a woman wearing an ankle length denim skirt looking like Michelle Duggard looks like she just walked out of magazine from 100 years ago. And she runs her house and dinnertime like a corporation. All the kids are employees. That fascination causes the show to become TLC's highest rated program ever when it's released. The show is a ratings addiction. People are so confused and intrigued by this entire big family that seem normal. Question mark. And I'm telling you in the perspective of the reality show appeal, not the actual family. Because it would be kind of offensive to say that they're wholesome when they have not all vocally, outside of the TV show have stated. Well, not all, but a lot of them have been very vocal against just like human rights. A lot of them are anti abortion, anti homosexuality. That's what they like to say, right? They're just like anti. Yeah, they're exactly what you expect from like a hardcore Christian fundamentalist family. So. But I think when the TLC show originally aired, a lot of America had a fascination with them because at least on the show itself, they appeared very wholesome.

[B]

They don't talk about these issues, right?

[A]

No, they always seem like, well, it's always kind of like the nice Southern family of, well, if you don't believe in God, you're going to burn in the pits of hell. But like that vibe does.

[B]

Does Jim Bob have a job or.

[A]

Yeah, so Jim Bob was like a car dealership dude. And then later they get into trying to flip houses in real estate, but his whole job becomes the reality show. He is a politician at one point, not a good one, but he was.

[B]

Do they get paid for the tlc yes.

[A]

They made millions and millions of dollars from this show. All taken by Jim Boob and Michelle Duggar. There were lots of complaints, particularly from Jill Duggar later who writes a full book and her husband Derek, who say like everything, they were forced to be documented. She alleges that Jim Bob would have her sign contracts without reading them because she just trusts her dad. And it would be like, oh, from now on you are forced to come to TLC appearance. And they would get nothing out of it. But they're Christian fundamentalists, right? So all the children would dress in a certain way. The girls were all wearing dresses, long dresses. They never wore pants or shorts. They all had curly hair. All the girls in the family, the daughters, they had softer voices. Michelle Duggar is known for talking like this with like a slight southern accent, but very soft nothing. It's almost like she's always whispering and she can barely. Like you just always hear this very soft demeanor. The boys, they're just there. The boys are just there and they're scared to look at any girl. The family believes that the female body is a tripwire for sin. It's like a code red. They would have a code where if one of the girls, they're out and about. One of the girls in the family would yell Nike. All the boys in the family would crane their necks down looking at the floor because one of the older girls would later write in the book. So Jill Duggar would write in her book that it's because like someone who was wearing, I don't know, maybe something that showed their shoulders or a butt cheek was out and about. So all the guys had to look down.

[B]

Nike though.

[A]

Yeah. So they would scream nike.

[B]

Why Nike?

[A]

I don't know. Yeah, and they all homeschooled their children. And side note, like I said, all the Duggar kids are named with J names. So you got Josh, Jana, John, David, Jill, Jessa, Ginger, Joseph, Josiah, Joanna, Jedediah, Jeremiah, Jason, James, Justin, Jackson, Johanna, Jennifer, Jordan, Josie. Wow. Are you tired of spending just hundreds on crazy high wireless bills, bogus fees and quote unquote free perks that cost you more in the long run Then a premium wireless plan from mint mobile for 15 bucks a month might be right for you. Bring your own phone and number, activate with ESIM in minutes and start saving immediately. No long term contracts, no hassle. When I made the switch to Mint, everything was so easy and completely online with my previous carrier. Going into the stores was always so awkward. It's like those stores that don't have a designated checkout desk or a greeter. It's just like a bunch of display tables and then everybody's scattered around. You don't know who to go to, you don't want to interrupt someone. It's just awkward and something I'd rather avoid altogether. That's why switching to Mint Mobile was such a win for me. No retail stores, no salespeople, just an easy setup on my own time and a huge savings. If you like your money, Mint Mobile is for you. Shop plans@mint mobile.com rotten that's mintmobile.com rotten upfront payment of $45 for three month five gigabyte plan required equivalent to 15 per month new customer offer for first three months only then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra C Mint Mobile For Details when you're starting your dream business, the right platform doesn't just help you keep up, it simplifies everything that you can do for millions of businesses. That platform is Shopify. Shopify brings everything under one roof, so they bring in the invent, payments, analytics and more all handled in the same place. A few years ago, my husband, sister in law and I were able to just give back to his grandpa in a really meaningful way thanks to Shopify. It had always just been a dream of his to share his artwork with the world and with Shopify we were able to make that dream come true. We set up an online store called Grandpa Mingo's Art Studio for a limited time. We're just starting to dip our toes into the business, so without Shopify we would have had no idea where to start when it comes to launching an online marketplace. And honestly, the biggest thing that I noticed was how much mental space I got back. I stopped dreading the admin side of things and remembered why we even started Grandpa Mango's Art Studio in the first place. Start your business today with the industry's best business partner, Shopify. Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at shopify.com rotten go to shopify.com rotten that's shopify.com rotten when you're doing it all, you need all the electrolytes. The weather is heating up and the best way to make it through those sweaty summ Gatorade, which hydrates better than water itself. With new Gatorade lower sugar, you can get the amazing hydration you expect from Gatorade, but with no artificial flavors, sweeteners or colors. With 75% less sugar and all the electrolytes of Gatorade Thirst Quencher, you'll be Back at your best and ready to take on whatever comes your way. New to the fridge, all the Gatorade electrolytes you love. Try Gatorade lower sugar. Today, Michelle Duggar stayed busy. She was having a baby like every 18 months.

[B]

I guess some of them were twins too, right?

[A]

Yes, there's two sets of twins. And you can kind of see how all of this makes for really good reality tv. Large group of people. There's a large group of people who watch this show that could relate to the Duggars. So they. I mean, probably not the part where they need a whole school bus to transport the family to the grocery store, but a lot of people grew up in super conservative, strict religious families. And either their still in it or they've left it. And they're watching the show with perhaps morbid fascination of what their lives could have been. Where there are people who aren't raised religiously and think that the whole show is very interesting because it's so different from their own way of life. But ultimately it still feels kind of wholesome. Like the biggest plot point of every episode is like, we're having a guest over now. Girls run 20 loads of laundry and ooh, how many cans of pickles are we getting at the grocery store? And now we gotta teach one of the kids how to drive. It's like very slice of lifey. And as long as TLC edits out all the parts that they're probably being homophobic, transphobic, anti woman, anti diversity. You get it, then it's gonna stay wholesome. Now, again, like I said, when I talk about their wholesome family image, it's not because I condone any of some of their bigoted beliefs. And many of them still hold those beliefs. I'm giving you context on how they became famous. And without further research why people might watch their reality show and perceive them to be wholesome. They were literally marketed that way. Christian family trying to navigate the world. It'd be like Duggars go to New York City for the first time. And in this wholesome image. Let's break down the family members. You've got Jim Bob, who comes off originally as the aw shucks guy. Like the aw shucks patriarch. He runs the family. He originally had a Southern dad appeal no more, but he did. He'll be asked about drugs and he could just say, I've never taken drugs. But he's like the ah, shucks. There's a few times I've been sick and I've taken some Tylenol or Aspirin But I've never taken marijuana. Well, nobody was asking you about the Pepcid to cocaine pipeline. Like that's weirdly. You didn't have to say that. Right? Then you have Michelle Duggar. Soft spoken. Makes it hard to believe that she's birthed 18 kids because after like maybe two, you start yelling a little bit more. Because life is hard. Right? But she's, she's not, she's so sad. She portrays herself as someone who never loses her cool, even though she has 19 more kids than most people. But she's also like super mom by the grace of God. She says she wasn't always like that before she found God. You know, she didn't grow up religious like Jim Boob. She actually used to do this crazy thing, sinful, where she would mow her lawn in a bikini as a teenager and she felt it was sinful to lead all the married men astray in the neighborhood. Which is not only really confident, but like a very odd story to share.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They get married on Michelle's 18th birthday. Story goes, Jim Bob walks into a yogurt shop and sees Michelle, falls in love. She converts to iblp, his religion. And then Disney becomes synonymous with the devil. Apparently the Duggars would have a bonfire where they would burn anything that was worldly and not godly. So fucking Mickey Mouse is getting cremated by the name of God.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And again, I, I just want to make it like abundantly clear. I think religion is one of the more beautiful aspects to human life and existence, though I'm not religious and that probably is like due to my own personal upbringing. But I think that most people who are in some sort of faith based life, a lot of them are some of the sweetest people and they support gay rights, women's rights, they support all of that. And they're just living life, going to temple, church, synagogue. But he's weird. Okay? So this is not me poking fun at religion. This is me poking fun at Jim Boop. He says they also are not allowed to dance. Jim Bob says we try not to shake body parts to draw attention to our bodies. So the two of them, they go on to have their very first child, Josh Duggar. They called him the little governor. Josh, okay, so Jim Bob eventually gets into politics. Josh Duggar would follow his dad to the capitol in Arkansas and meet with all these politicians. He would even later join the Family Research Council. Like I said, the highly, highly political right wing group. His on air Persona at the time was role model, eldest golden boy, resolute, irresponsible charismatic into politics. This is the prototype for what every Duggar kid should strive to be. He's the first to get married, but even then his relationship with Anna Duggar becomes like a huge storyline for the show. The show leans so heavily into Josh Duggar being Jim Boob 2.0. He's gonna be a great family man. He also ironically sang the loyalty song to Anna during the ceremony during their wedding. Yeah. There's this one scene in the show though. Josh doesn't want to move. So they're all sitting at the dining table and Josh doesn't want to move. He's holding one of their babies and Anna is pregnant with another baby and she's like trying to get behind him and he's like, oh. He makes a half hearted attempt to move his chair. He's like just doing this. And then Anna, she decides, oh, don't mind me, it's okay, you don't have to move. My amazing husband. Let me just get on all fours while I'm pregnant and crawl under the table to get to my seat. Then you have what?

[B]

Wait.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Like she's doing it as if this is a normal thing to do. Yeah, like this happens a lot.

[A]

But I think the way that it's edited with the light hearted music, I think in hindsight this show was really effective at normalizing horrendous relationships. Then there's Jaina Duggar. A lot of people have sympathy for Jaina because she's the firstborn daughter, which naturally makes it seem like she was tasked unfairly with with basically raising all of her siblings. She actually gets married latest. She's. She gets married in her 30s, which nothing is wrong with that. But netizens feel like she was forced to watch her siblings get married, have children of their own, while she was forced to stay in the family home, homeschooling all the younger kids, raising all their siblings. She's known to be basically good at everything, musical instruments, gardening. The word Cinderella comes out a lot when people talk about her and not necessarily in like a mean spirited way. A lot of people who have strong parasocial connections to the Duggars who wanted to save her in a sense, she does get married and gets cited for misdemeanor child endangerment. We're going to get into that later, but yeah, later, that's later. Then you have her twin brother, John David Duggar on the show. He's kind of the older, reserved guy that's in the background. He's very much hated by the Internet. These days. But on the show he was just a quiet, reserved, strong Persona. Very masculine. Emphasis on Persona. He has a pilot license. He almost killed his entire family because he let the aircraft run out of fuel and they crash landed in a field. His kiss during the wedding.

[B]

What do you mean? Like they were on the show. He was fine.

[A]

This was not on the show. Yeah, yeah, but he was flying the plane and they crash landed. And he also was like stealing supplies from missionary efforts. Is the allegation on the Internet. Not my allegation. You people hate him. People hate him. And he has one of the more viral moments on 19 Kids and Counting because at his wedding with his wife, he. This is a lot of the Duggars. Their first kiss is their wedding day wedding ceremony kiss, like, which is great for ratings, Right. But he does this thing where he doesn't just like kiss his wife, he like makes a whole drawn out production of it where he kisses her hands, then her cheeks and then her forehead and her lips and it's very uncomfortable to watch. Then you have Jill Duggar. She's been very outspoken about her family since the show. She will become pivotal later. But while on the show they kind of molded her to be the Persona of the eager to please daughter who wanted to be noticed. She seemed deeply enthusiastic about anything that the family valued. On her wedding day, Jim Bob, her dad, tells her new husband Derek that he has permission to kiss the bride, Jessa. Growing up, she was seen as the outspoken, sharp tongued Duggar by Duggar Sanders. She was the first daughter to enter a courtship on television. And I believe their very first kiss was not at the altar, but afterwards. So they wanted a very private moment for their kiss. Now prior to this, during the courting, Jim Bob gave them permission for a 30 second hug. So there's that. There's also a weird viral moment where Jim Bob and Michelle go on a date with Jessa and Ben during their courting process. And Jim Bob and Michelle, I don't know if the holy spirit compelled them to do this, but they're mini golfing and they're like, here's what all the fun you can have when you get married. And they're just like dry humping on the mini golf course. They're like, who? Jim Bob and Michelle, dry humping. They're both like, you know when you in like the. Yeah, but it was not then you

[B]

have Ginger when you say courting.

[A]

Oh, we're going to get into courting. So courting is their version of dating.

[B]

Oh, got it.

[A]

Got it okay, Now Ginger, who has been very vocal. She also has two books. Since the reality show ended, there was a whole Free Ginger movement online during the show because she would roll her eyes. She would mention that she wanted to live in a big city one day. She wouldn't mind it. She wouldn't mind living in New York City one day. And so a lot of people online were like, we got to save Ginger. She's the one that we can save. We can get her out of the grip of the fundamentalist. Ginger has since written her book Free Indeed. But she says in her book, as TLC ordered more seasons, I became known as the girl with a million expressions, apparently because of my exaggerated faces. People even called me the Rebel Duggar, which was funny considering I wanted nothing more than to please my parents. It was all because of one offhand comment I made on camera about how I love the city and enjoy visiting it. That innocent statement turned into entire Reddit threads about how I wanted to move away from my family and lead an exciting life in the city. Joseph Duggar, at the time, at the time he's known as the quiet nice one, athletic. A lot of people loved him. They thought that he was soft. He has this baby face. More on him later. Josiah Class, family prankster. He's notably also a rebel by Dugger standard. So much so that he was sent to this camp that fundamentalists go to where which is just like really harsh military esque training, really just. And people said that you could see the light leave his eyes after that. He's generally well liked by the Internet. You have Joy Anna. She's known as the tomboy. I don't know if that word is offensive to some people, but that's what a lot of people would call her on pages. But the show focused on her gravitating more towards boy activities rather than domestic chores like her sister. Then you have Jeremiah and Jedediah. They're the Duggar twins. Fans dubbed them the Lost Boys because they barely ever got individual screen time. They just kind of blend into the episodes. And this is again when they're young because Jedidiah later is gonna get himself into some trouble because he's going to. He's gonna pat his wife on the head when she gives labor and he's gonna weight shame his wife during pregnancy and then he's gonna run for public office. Jason the Builder, another one that just kind of gets lost. He just like builds things very into construction work, flipping houses. James Duggar, known to be resourceful. So in this pink Square. I actually have a lot of the single Duggar children and then obviously they're underage, but like single as in it's actually very important in the Duggar universe of who's married, who has children, who's courted and who is, quote, eligible for courting. It's like a thing. James Duggar, resourceful helper, Justin Duggar. People say he was like the sweet, thoughtful one. And this is during the show. Jackson, the jokester. His parents would say that he's like the best jokester, best storyteller ever. And a lot of the younger Duggars, there's not much, I would say, like their biggest controversies that they face are still being part of very like right wing religious groups. Like, Jackson's thing was he is very involved, I believe in Turning Point usa or he's at like a lot of their conferences. So like the younger Duggars, there's not as much compared to the older Duggars, there's not as much history, there's not as much of a digital footprint and all of these things that's going on. And with two of the older Douglas criminal histories. So with that, you know, Jackson's classic move, though, would be to bring in snakes indoors to tease his siblings. Then you have Johanna. Johanna is after six boys. They finally have another daughter and she's described as outgoing and always tidying up after her siblings, which I don't know if like anyone should be known for that. Then you have Jennifer. The younger ones, like I said, we don't really know much about. But Hugh, animal lover Jordan, Grace, people call her the overlooked baby because right after, and you can kind of see it happen, like right after. Josie is born quickly after. And Josie is nicknamed the miracle baby. She spent six months in the nicu and actually one of the most disturbing scenes in the entire series is the producers film her having a seizure on camera. Josie, Jenna is watching over her, sobbing, praying for her, freaking out. The directors finally step in to help. They rush her to the hospital. Meanwhile, Jim Bob and Michelle are away and do not rush home. So there's something called the Quiverful movement in fundamentalist Christians, which the family has denied being part of it, though it seems like they follow the principles to the T. These are essentially people who believe that children are tools for God. They invoke God's word and that's really the only reason to keep having children beyond conventional desire. Therefore, if you have a ton of children, you are blessed by God and you should keep having these kids because that's what God wants. Wants. So for, like, family planning is frowned upon. Any sort of contraception is frowned upon because it's God's will. Like, if it happens, it's God's will. And if you follow that logic, you can see how forms of birth control can start becoming demonized. There have been lots of controversial statements made by people in the Quiverful movement who liken birth control to murdering children. Even natural family planning, just like following your ovulation scandal is frowned upon by hardcore Quiverfuls, AKA don't even plan when you're least likely to get pregnant. Like, just. Just do it and see what happens. A woman's body is meant to be a living sacrifice. Yeah. To having kids. And that's why a lot of people will track the Duggars. Kids. Kids. So they want to track. A lot of Internet people like to track how many kids each Duggar child has because that gives them an indication of how deep in the fundamentalist religion that they still are. Not all of them have spoken out. Does that make sense?

[B]

Spoken about. Oh, like just dug her. The whole scandal and what they believe in.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So they can tell by how many kids is how much they're still following this.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Believe. Yeah, I see.

[A]

If you are a man who had a vasectomy, you should go and reverse it because you can't cut off children. You owe it to God. In the Quiverful Movement, there are people called reversal babies where husbands would reverse their vasectomies, then go on to have a child. And they were known as reversal babies in the communities.

[B]

Is that good or bad?

[A]

Like, they would all hang out with themselves, apparently, and they liked it. Some people, like, really wanted. I was on Reddit, I was so deep in Reddit, and they would, like, I think they would lie that their dad had a vasectomy, undid it, and then they were born to join, like, reversal baby cliques in churches.

[B]

That's weird.

[A]

It's become like a religious, societal, you know, right way to live life. Even political type of movement. The Quiverful Movement, with people who leave these communities writing Quiverful Movement people, they think that they have the numbers. They're going to be able to control the fate of the government for cultural and technological ends. A lot of women that were part of the Quiverful movement have stated that they aren't afraid of dying during childbirth because a lot of them are warned against additional pregnancies. Like, if you've had multiple babies, the doctors will be like, this is not safe. But one states, I really believe that I wouldn't die. Unless God willed that I die. And if he did, then I would accept that. It's a pretty controversial movement considering it leads families to have a lot of children that they cannot feasibly care for emotionally, physically, financially. A lot of people in the Quiverful movement are living in poverty. There's food scarcity. The children are growing up hungry and anxious. But a lot of them argue if God wants you to have a certain number of kids, and he will find a way for you to provide for them. And Jim Bob and Michelle, whether they like it or not, they become the face of the Quiverful movement. And it's really not fair because they're multi millionaires making tons of money off of this reality show, this TLC reality show, and there's no more food scarcity in the house anymore. Meanwhile, what they're advocating is leading to food scarcity amongst children in the United States because their parents are falling into the Quiverful movement. But the reality show doesn't focus on that. They focus on the fact that all the sons, like, they would run marathons in long pants because shorts are bad. Shorts are banned. They would risk a heat stroke.

[B]

That's really.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Do they swim?

[A]

Yeah. So the girls, when they go to the beach, they wear long skirts, which I think is like a pretty huge safety concern.

[B]

Long skirt. And the boys wear long pants.

[A]

It actually becomes.

[B]

Do they wear shirts?

[A]

Yes. It actually becomes a huge scandal when one of the elder daughters wears pants. It becomes, like, a huge.

[B]

Really? Which one?

[A]

They all started wearing pants. Jill, Jessa, and Ginger in the show. And Ginger not in the show, but later on. Yeah.

[B]

So what if they see other people shirtless on the beach?

[A]

They probably scream Nike. Yeah. And they had the infamous tater tot casserole. The Duggar family tater tot casserole. You cannot separate the two. They didn't, like, invent the tater tot casserole, but they probably ate it every week. It's cheap, it's easy to make. It's filling. You get frozen tater tots, and then you add, like, cream of mushroom soup, sour cream, all this. You make a casserole. People thought that the Duggars loved it so much, to the point that I believe they refused to eat it for, like, three years, because everywhere they went to visit anybody, they would be served tater tot casseroles. And they have some weird quirks. There's a part in Jill Duggar's books where she says that her family would roleplay different scenarios of what to do.

[B]

Wait, I'M sorry, why? Why is tater tot casserole a scandal?

[A]

It's not a scandal. It just becomes like a huge part of their lore. Oh yeah. Like they make tater tots casserole and they love it. And then now everyone thinks they love it. So everywhere they go they're served a tater tot casserole and then the kids are like, I fucking hate tater tot casseroles now.

[B]

They finally came out to say we actually hate that.

[A]

Yeah. One of them said like we couldn't eat it for three years because all we did eat was tater tot casserole because everyone thought we loved it. Yeah. Then there's a part in Jill Duggar's book where she says that her family would role play different scenarios on what to do to stay as far away from sin as possible. To hold the devil with a ten foot pole. Right. They would practice. What if their friends asked them to read a book? Now what if someone comes up to you and says, hey Joseph, why don't you read this book right here? It's got a witch in it. Joseph would deliver his line right on cue. I'm a Christian, I won't be able to do that. Joseph will later be arrested. So there's that. All the kids are homeschooled. They don't even have a weather radio in their house. So if there's a tornado coming their way because they live in Arkansas, their cousins would have to call them and scream at them. Shelter in place. Shelter in place. I repeat, shelter in place. There's a tornado warning they had. You know, ironically they also had an entire camera crew following them around that would be aired to the very, very secular network of tlc. But all in the name of, of spreading the word of God, I guess. Look, I don't know. But the most controversial things to come out of the show initially in the very beginning were the buddy systems. There is no way for Jim Bob and Michelle to raise 19 children. So they just thought, why don't we have the children raise the children? Michelle says, mom cannot be everywhere at once. And so my older children help to take care of my younger children. When a baby is born, it's my buddy until it's weaned. And then from there it goes to the other buddy whose ever turn it is to get a buddy. Guess who's all the buddies? All the girls.

[B]

Oh, so the guys didn't have buddies?

[A]

No, not really. I mean like they compare all the girls tasks so all of them have to pull their Weight in the house. And all the girls, they're doing like 10 loads of laundry. They're cleaning all the rooms, they're doing this. And the guys are like, well today on my list of to do's I have to feed the dog. Process goes like every dogger has at least one buddy. If you're too old and don't need help from a buddy, that means you're ready to take on a younger buddy. A big buddy helps you get dressed, brush your teeth, comb your hair, get your breakfast, do your homework, learn to play violin, piano and sew. They're there to pick you up when you fall and keep track of you when you're out and about. No one is exempt from the buddy brigade. Yeah, so I mean the boys did have buddies, but like they're not really doing much. Jim Bob's buddy is Michelle because he still needs to be catered to and taken care of like a infantile toddler. And Michelle reserves the privilege of being each of the children's very first buddy. Basically 11 year old little girls becoming parents while the boys are off being boys. But they also have the courting system. Like a lot of fundamentalist Christians, the Duggar family has a tendency to get married very early. With the exception of two siblings, most of the others get married 18, 19, maybe early 20s. And you could say it has to do with their dating system. Courting system, the system where God is the ultimate chaperone. So the rules are this. No dating, no kissing, no hand holding, no frontal hugs. If you want to spend time together, chaperones must be there, spend time with somebody else.

[B]

You mean like a new person?

[A]

If you want to spend time with someone that you are going to marry, even if you're on the phone with them, another sibling has to chaperone and make sure you're not doing anything ungodly. And maybe America is the chaperone because we're just watching this all play out on the reality TV show. A lot of it comes from this decades old book that got a lot of evangelical Christians like In a Knot where the author states dating is training for divorce. So courtship should be a godly thing. A young Christian man should decide that he is financially, spiritually and emotionally ready for marriage. And he's going to approach the father of a potential bride asking permission to be in a supervised relationship with, with the explicit intent to marry.

[B]

So a few questions, right? How do they meet people if, how do they know who's they just walk by someone on the street and, and decide that's the person or no.

[A]

So they all go to similar churches. A lot of them got courted by people they either went to the same church with or they would have these like youth seminars all around the nation where people with same ideological belief would gather for like summer camp. Vbs. Ooh, that used to be the bane of my existence.

[B]

Vbs.

[A]

Yeah, Vacation Bible study. They would like starve us. It was a thing. Yeah, you couldn't get your food until you memorized a ton of Bible verses. And I was like a chubby little hungry kid and I would come back just like so hungry. Yeah, it was actually like, like I don't even know how that's ethical, but okay, This new year, consider Investing in yourself and your future with Acorns so many people are focused on where their money is today. Acorns is the financial wellness app that cares about where your money is going tomorrow. And with the Acorns potential screen, you can find out what your money is capable of. Acorns is easy. You can sign up in minutes and start automatically investing your spare money, even if all you've got is spare change. Sign up now and Acorns will boost your new account with a $5 bonus. Investment join the over 14 million all time customers who have already saved and invested over $27 billion with Acorns. Head to acorns.com rotten or download the Acorns app to get started. Paid non client endorsement compensation provides incentive to positively promote acorns. Tier 2 compensation provided potential subject to various factors such as customers, accounts, age and investment settings. Does not include Acorns fees. Results do not predict or represent the performance of any Acorns portfolio. Investment results will vary. Investing involves risk Acorns Advisors LLC, an SEC registered investment advisor. View important [e-mail] rotten if you thought HBO's euphoria was intense in high school, saddle up. Starring Zendaya Sydney Sweeney and Jacob Elordi, Season three of Euphoria picks up five years later and life looks very different. Now these characters are on their own with the freedom to make choices that can build them or break them. No matter what they're chasing money, fame, power, love or redemption, no one can escape their fate. Don't miss the third season of Euphoria, premiering April 12th on HBO and HBO Max. Some of the best things come in layers a cute haircut, wrapped presents, and our sponsor new Tide Evo. The moment Tide Evo hits water, it instantly activates six concentrated cleaning layers to to fight 100% of common stains, including grass and dirt. Each layer has a job, tackling the mess from a different angle with scrubbers, pre treaters, brighteners, and fresheners. Toss one in with your load and that's it. No scooping, no spilling, no squinting at a fill line and no mess. Just clean clothes. And I haven't even told you about my favorite part. Tide Evo is an easy swap you can make if you're trying to cut down on household waste. There are no fillers, no extra water, and no large plastic jug. Tide Evo is lightweight and it comes ready for the wash in a fully recyclable box. I've officially switched over to Tide Evo for my laundry routine, and my clothes smell fresh. It's great. With my sensitive skin, I've even been able to do a few loads with my whites and a little bleach and my white towels that survived a dog bath or two came out refreshed. When all those layers work together the way they're supposed to, there's nothing left to question. It's the same feeling as a case with no loose ends, where every detail has done its job. Try new Tide Evo. Real laundry magic.

[B]

So, okay, so per you see a girl that you kind of like and you go straight to the desk, yeah, I'm gonna marry her.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

There. Is there like a trial and error? Like, do I have to marry this person?

[A]

Like, yeah, most likely.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Because I guess if a girl was courted by multiple men, she's just a whore, right? Yeah. And girls get no say in adults. So I mean, it really depends on the family. There are certain families on Reddit who are saying, like, no, I don't really believe in this courting system. But there are also a lot of families deep in this religion where they say if God wants a man to marry you, the man will want to marry you. And that's God's will. The author that wrote this book that some people would accredit to the beginning of this courting system would later pull his own book from publications stating that he gave millions of people the wrong advice and that he's not even a Christian anymore. So like what the hell? A lot of people built courting systems based off this original book. And now he's just like taking backsies his information. He's like, oops. But the Duggars, they had their own little spin on it. Apparently Jim Bob, who a lot of people, like I said call Rimjob, would have potential suitors for his daughters. Fill out 45 page applications, questionnaires which, you know what, is not the craziest thing in the world? I feel like that's something I would do if I had a daughter in this world. However, the questions aren't even good. The questions are not even good. There is an alleged leak version of it online where some of the questions. Okay, some of them are completely valid. Like, when someone gets married, do you have any financial debt? If so, explain the extent and circumstances. You should probably know your partner's credit score before you get married. Okay, yes, yes, that, fine. But other questions are just weird. Would you be willing to die for Christ if you're not dying daily? How can you be so sure you would die for Christ then? Then when did the Fruit of the Spirit start appearing in your life? I don't even know what that means, sir.

[B]

Fruit of the Spirit, what was your

[A]

prior experience with dating and romance? Have you ever kissed or been physically intimate in a way with a girl or a woman? If so, explain the circumstances. What is your stance on terminating a pregnancy? What about in the case of our wording? What are your views on child training, including corporal punishment when at home or in the car, who does the temperature have to be set to please, you or the others in the car? How about in regards to your mom or sister?

[B]

So if you're in the car with your mom and sister and your partner.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Who do we set the temperature catering to?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What's. What's the right answer? According to Jimbo the man?

[A]

Duh.

[B]

Mm. What if I. What about, like, the man and Jim Bob in the car?

[A]

Jim Bob, I see. Yeah. Yeah. What a weird question. No, like, can you imagine telling my dad that in the car you're the one that sets the temperature? My dad would bonk you over the head. That's actually insane.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

How will you approach your wife or daughters if they are immodest? What are your views on public swimming? One of the suitors counts, you know, One of the suitors, one of the quarters states, I got sent a 50 page questionnaire. I sent it back at 105 pages.

[B]

What does that mean? Like, he came back with a lot of answers.

[A]

Yeah. Michelle Duggar also has words of advice for her daughters. According to their book, A Love that Multiplies, she says, for instance, I have told my girls that romance novels are to women what pornography is to men. That you. They stir up emotions with unreal fantasies. In contrast, God's word tells us to think on things that are honest, pure, lovely, and of a good report, which is crazy.

[B]

She doesn't like romance novels. Yeah, what's wrong with the romance novel?

[A]

She's saying it's unrealistic standards. And like, I think we know that. I'm not expecting that, honey. You're going to be the leader of the Russian mafia and a billionaire that's going to be storm in and kill people who even dare look at me because you're so possessive. But like, I don't know why she is like, it's so bizarre.

[B]

Sounded like she read something. I don't think romance novels sounds anything like what you just said. But yeah, to her, she probably read.

[A]

Right, exactly. And her romance novel is probably like the diet romance.

[B]

Hey, you never know because some of these guys, they say one thing and do the other things.

[A]

That's true.

[B]

You never know.

[A]

Michelle, I want to know. I want to know. Your red on Goodreads. Okay? And from again, a reality TV standpoint, we love Love Island. We love Love is Blind. We also apparently love courting in the 19 kids and counting. Because this whole dating process is part of the reason that the show is so successful. I think it's the dating, it's the fast pacedness of courting. It also feels higher stakes because usually the courting phase lasts a very short amount of time, a few months. And then they get married at the altar and they're like, my God, I'm gonna have my first kiss. I'm gonna like have a kid. And the cameras are everywhere. We are the unpaid chaperones.

[B]

Wait, so all of these people, we see them start courting on the show and they get married in a couple months and there's no divorces so far?

[A]

Nope.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Even when there are crimes committed against children, there are no divorces. Like genuinely, the rhetoric in their beliefs, and I'm not saying there as in the children, but maybe, perhaps because the lack of divorce is kind of astonishing in certain circumstances, but I think their view of divorce is genuinely, you might as well sever your relationship with Christ. But the whole point of this is just to get you familiar with Joshua, the firstborn Duggar child, and to understand him and why he gets locked up in federal prison for over a decade for crimes against children. So in order to understand that, we also have to know, like I said, we gotta know. 19 kids and counting, the reality show which I just told you about. But we also have to talk about Jim Bob's political rush. This is a high bar to call a political career. It's just disastrous. I feel like you, I mean, okay, everyone holding office, their career has been Disastrous. Jim Bob's career is a car crash straight into the Capitol. But he hasn't even made it in the car. The car is driving itself and he's just like chasing after it, trying to get into this car crash. His political career is a mess. He does get elected as a House representative in the Arkansas House of Representatives and then wins reelection. But instead of seeking a third term, he's like, I gotta run for the Senate in Arkansas because God told me to, and God wants me on vacation. But the world works in mysterious ways. Here we are, right? But he first runs for Senate and the only issue he seems to care for is abortion. And apparently he hates Bill Clinton. Bill Clinton being elected horrified him into action. So I don't know, maybe he's got a good chance, right? So the person that he's running up against is another Republican. He's actually gotten a lot of hot water. This is why I think he has a good chance. So this Republican that was in the Senate, he's all, God is good all the time. All the time, God is good. And then he goes and divorces his wife of 39 years and then marries a former employee. And his voter base is like, hello, what the hell was that? This guy is a former Southern Baptist minister turned politician turned divorcee turned second marriage with a former staffer who's much younger than you. I mean, why? So Jim Bob is going up against that. Most people could win up against that. He just doesn't know anything about politics. During debates, when he's asked to address key issues, he just like. He's like, come on, kids. And he'll bring 13 of his kids on stage and they'll sing a song. And everyone is like, we asked you a question. And he's like, shut up. I'm a family man. Needless to say, he gets wrecked. He loses, but he runs again after and then fails. And then he just ends up helping other Republicans, like, like Mike Huckabee, Rick Santorum stating that he loves Rick because Rick wants less government intervention in our lives. Except when they want to control women's bodies. Okay? Interestingly enough, Jim Bob very vocal about wanting to make rape and incest capital crimes. Basically, if you commit incest, you should be killed by the government. Keep this in mind for later. It just gets like a mess of a political career. And if you think that Jim Bob has very anti everything values in politics in Arkansas. There are two gyms in politics in Arkansas with these beliefs. You've got Jim Bob and his very close best friend, Jim Holt. So Jim Holt is going to be important. Okay? Jim Holt has a lot of similar beliefs to Jim Bob. He and his wife Bobby have 11 kids. And Jim Holt has won a seat in the Arkansas House of Representatives where he co sponsors a bill that would require public. Public schools to state that evolution is an unproven theory. He's also homophobic. He said that, quote, if my own mother voted against the federal marriage amendment, I'd be campaigning against her. Every person in America has come together on this issue of same sex marriage. We have the issue that is we must defend our traditional values. He also said for Roe v. Wade, it is a terrible decision and should be overturned. If we truly care for the women of our great country, we must end this cruel and gruesome procedure. Depressing, yes. But Bobby Holt, the wife of Jim Holt, says that she's known the Duggars for decades. They're all in politics and they all go to the same church. They do Bible studies and ski trips together. And the Duggar kids apparently call her Auntie Bobby Holt. It would, you know, only make sense, right, that their children would eventually court each other. So Joshua Duggar was originally not, by most people's beliefs, gonna marry Anna Duggar, the little governor. That's what they called Joshua Duggar asks Jim Holt for his eldest daughter Kaylee Holt's hand in marriage. They start the courting process. It's kind of expected. Common knowledge, no. Oh, secretly, this was like before. Oh. And it was common knowledge that this was gonna happen in the community and they were just gonna get married. Like that was it. No one ever. No one was, like, even looking at Joshua as someone who was gonna be courting anybody else because that's how close they were. They're like, like two boobs in a bra. And then no, because I have to find some happiness somewhere sometimes because this was so depressing. Okay. But the Holts find out something really, really bad about Joshua. Something that requires Josh to be sent away for four months. Away from his family, his parents, his siblings. And the Holts, they want Joshua to never come around their daughter ever again. But nobody knows why.

[B]

Then how do we know this?

[A]

It comes out all later, but around that time, the courting just, like, ends abruptly. It's not happening. They're not doing it. And that's where Jim Bob and Jim Holt, they suddenly become icy. Everyone's like, okay, something happened. And then Josh gets sent away for months.

[B]

Sent away where?

[A]

To this, like, other Christian family who run a home remodeling business. And he's Got a, like, home remodel.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And then Joshua comes back. Now they're on a TV show, and he starts courting a girl named Anna Keller. She's number five of eight children in the also deeply religious Keller family. She is. The Keller family are very different from the Duggars. They are financially not well off. And a lot of people, a lot of Internet users and people who run in the same fundamentalist circle say that Anna Keller's dad is all about marrying up in the religious ladder. They meet at a homeschooling conference, and Josh is like, that's the one. He asked the Kellers if he can court Anna Keller. Their courting, relationship, eventual wedding, and marriage are all documented on the TV reality show. Even the wedding planning. Josh is all like, men approach planning a wedding. I think I'm more of the kind. You know, I look at it more of like a systematic process. I say, so, you know, like, here's the desired result and here's the way we need to accomplish it. Women look at it as like a wedding and XIZ has to happen in between. He's just saying nonsense. He's just saying, like, whatever comes up in, like three neurons that are going off. Okay. They just have a lot of uncomfortable moments. Anna's dad also say it's the way God ordained it. Josh becomes the authority at the wedding. He becomes her authority, not me. And that's the way God designed the transfer of authority. And it's a good design. So basically, women can never have authority over themselves. They must always have a man being authorized for them.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Okay. So like, the logic is women cannot be responsible for themselves and it needs to be a man. So God has the ultimate authority. And then a woman, usually it's their dad. And then once they get married, they're under their husband's authority. Now when they get married, Jim Bob gives Joshua a CD from like this guy named Ed Wheat who is a pre marriage counselor. It's a guide on how to quote instructions on how to give a good hand job and be available at times. All times.

[B]

Oh, when you say cd, it's like a CD player cd.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I thought it was cash deposit. I was like, oh, he gave him some cash.

[A]

No, it gives like a cd, video tutorial CD for the two of them to watch on their wedding night. On how to give a good hand job and be available at all times. Be available at all times. That is what women are taught in certain circles of this religion, that you should be joyfully available for your husband at all times. Jim Bob explains. It's so important for the man to learn to cherish his wife and for him to realize that it takes a lot longer for her to kind of get in the mood and stuff after they're married versus a man is instant on, instant off. But a woman, it takes time. Spoken like a true man who has never pleased a woman before. At the wedding, Josh sings a song of loyalty that goes like, when you have hard times and all the others are gone. I will be there when the troubles are come. You know when the troubles have come. Through sunshine or rain when no help can be found. Things may seem homeless, hopeless. Things may seem hopeless. But just look over and if you think that I'm tone deaf. His is worse. His is worse. I will say how they get married is a lot. They were planning on courting, but Anna stated specifically that she did not want to officially start courting until she was 20 years old. Josh surprises her by proposing to her. They don't court. Proposes to her at her 20th birthday party party, and she looks uncomfortable.

[B]

What do you mean? So you mean, like, Anna's like, that's a stranger right there, basically is trying

[A]

to marry me, and she, like, looks surprised, and finally she whispers, yes. And Michelle Duggar explains. Anna, since it was your 20th birthday and you had made that commitment to the Lord that you wouldn't court or get engaged or whatever until you turned 20, your daddy, you know, had said he really wanted you to keep that commitment. So I guess Joshua and your daddy figured out all this together to surprise you. Three months later, they're married. Anna goes from her dad's house in Florida to her husband's house in Arkansas. And people describe their relationship as a super fan meets religious royalty. Like, Anna is just obsessed. She has never lived alone. She's never had a real job. She's never. She doesn't even have a driver's license for the first few years that they're married. And within a year of being married, she's pregnant with their first child. And they later become known as the M kids. So they carry on the tradition of naming all their children with the very first first initial. All their names start with an M. Now they're leaving the family size up to God. So they're just having as many children as God wills, right? But one thing to note that comes out during the scandal is while Anna Duggar and the M kids are always spotted wearing $2 flip flops because they don't really have a lot of money and there's a lot of kids Joshua Duggar is out here spending $1,000 on Ashley Madison. Furthermore, a lot of people who personally knew Anna Duggar said that she was quite loud and opinionated before marrying Josh and just having babies back to back. They thought that slowly she started talking like Michelle Duggar. Like just real soft, toned things down. Everything is what they call a pastor's wife whisper. They even used Covenant eyes. So Anna was Joshua's accountability partner, but somehow he bypasses that to get on Ashley Madison and OkCupid and watch Explicit videos, which is the whole point of the Covenant Eyes. But Anna, a lot of people feel a lot of sympathy, but they thought it was predictable that Anna would choose to stay with her husband. You know, everyone around them just spoke about it as if Joshua Duggar was also a victim in this. Like, that's how this whole scandal gets handled. Jim Bob, during a sermon, he's nervously giggling. I guess you've read it in the newspapers or seen it on tv, but we've gone through a lot of trials. Michelle says, I didn't think I need to talk to Josh. I'm going to talk to our heavenly

[B]

Father after the Madison.

[A]

Yeah, I'm sorry if my son is cheating on his wife and their children. I'm not talking to God. My fist is. That's not condoned. However, I will be very angry. Like, it's just like crazy. She's talking about it as if later a bodyguard of the Duggars comes out because they had to get a bodyguard at one point. And allegedly the bodyguard claims that he was in the car with the Duggar group. And they drive up to Josh's car and Josh is driving and he's also like watching X Rate Adventures videos. He's like not even holding it near his leg under the wheel to be discreet. As per the AMA on Reddit, he said, quote, josh kept his phone on a hands free, like stuck onto the windshield and there was just like porn.

[B]

Wait, hold on. He stuck what on where?

[A]

His phone on the windshield so he could drive hands free. And there's just X rated videos playing while he's driving. And he's just like, he knew that car. Either he didn't care or he, he didn't know. I don't know. But like, what do you expect from couples who follow the religious semi cult leader? Some would call it a cult. I wouldn't call it a cult because cult leaders love giving season desist. But his name is Bill Gothard. More on him later. But on the website for iblp, which is what they follow Basic life principles. They have this article titled should I confess my secret sin to my wife and how so these are for husbands and the article reads in short, yes you should. When you come clean with your wife by confessing moral failures, you will have a feeling of euphoria. It will seem as though hundreds of bricks have been taken off your shoulders. However, in a sense, your wife will now be carrying this burden. Now is when you say, thank you God for setting me free. I now choose to do whatever it takes to see that my wife is set free and healed from the truckload of stuff I have dumped on her. Another article says God clearly says he hates divorce. Divorce is linked with treachery and violence in our day of encounter. Increasing violence even among Christians. May God give us the strength and courage to call divorce what God calls it, breaking a covenant. So when Joshua bypasses the covenant eyes to cheat on his wife, everyone just says, I mean he's gotta, he's gotta humble himself before God. Even Ben Shapiro tweets, the left don't target Josh Duggar because he's a garbage fire. They target him because he advocated Christian values. I don't know how you advocate Christian values when you're on Ashley Madison, okay? But Anna chooses to stay. And some people can understand given her circumstances, her religious background and a lot of other couples who chose to stay together after the Ashley Madison leak. It's not just Christians. So if it were just that, maybe people could understand Anna Duggar. But they don't. Because the thing that confuses people is right around the time of the Ashley Madison leak and scandal that's happening, there's bigger problems. Like the real reason Joshua Duggar never married Jim Holtz daughter. It wasn't political differences. It's because the Holt's found out that when Joshua Duggar was 15 years old he molested his younger sisters and confessed to it. But did Anna and her family know about it? And just how long has everybody been covering for Josh Duggar? And what about his victims? And how is this connected to the two other Duggars that were arrested this year like a month ago, another one for crimes against children? Would Anna Duggar still have chosen to stay then if she knew that in a few years her husband Joshua Duggar would bypass the covenant eye system that they had in place place and be arrested for downloading some of the worst CSAM content, including infants and children that the federal investigation working on that case, they said it was one of the worst that they had ever seen. There are links to some of the content that he pulled and it was linked to Daisy's destruction. And that is where I leave you with the video. Part 1 audio Part 2 of the Duggar Empire Fall there's going to be the next part. We're going to go through Joshua's trial and then the two other Duggars arrest. So stay tuned, be safe, and I will see you in the next one.

[C]

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