Former Reality TV Swinger Found Dead After Hiring Hitman to Kill Her Rich Husband

Summary

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Rotten Mango Podcast Summary

Episode Title

Former Reality TV Swinger Found Dead After Hiring Hitman to Kill Her Rich Husband
Host: Stephanie Soo
Date: January 27, 2026

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Episode Overview

This darkly fascinating Rotten Mango episode, hosted by Stephanie Soo, explores the turbulent, scandal-filled life and mysterious death of Tatiana Remley—a wealthy socialite and former reality TV "swinger." The saga delves into failed business ventures, involvement in high-end sex clubs, tumultuous marriages, messy divorces, arson, attempted murder-for-hire, and Tatiana’s own violent end. Stephanie unpacks the psychological and interpersonal chaos underpinning Tatiana’s story, ponders her motives, and leaves listeners questioning where the line lies between victim and perpetrator.

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Key Themes & Discussion Points

1. Valitar—The $20 Million Failed Horse Show

[00:45–07:17]

• Tatiana and husband Mark Remley ("a hot rich couple from Southern California") launch Valitar, a horse show blending Cirque du Soleil and equestrian stunts, investing $20 million.
• Tatiana, despite mediocre equestrian skills, is placed as the star, forcing professionals to downgrade their performances.
• The show is a spectacular failure, leaving cast and horses stranded and unpaid.
• Extravagant spending on Tatiana’s costumes and advertising, but stinginess when horses require medical care.

“Some people said that they were willing to spend unreasonable amounts of money on billboard advertisements with Tatiana's face everywhere... But then when a horse would get injured, they would cheapen out.” — Stephanie Soo, [04:20]

2. Wealth, Sex Clubs, & Reality TV

[07:18–19:09]

• Mark and Tatiana are regulars at the elite Hollywood sex club, Sanctum, even participating in its reality show under the pseudonyms "Vladimir and Ileana".
• Their lifestyle is intertwined with the club’s ethos—open sexuality, partner-swapping, and high-status attendees (e.g., rumored member Gwyneth Paltrow).
• The show documents “bizarre” erotic dinner parties with performance art and explicit acts.
• The club’s founder, Damon, offers a window into Sanctum’s world and the Remleys’ dynamic, casting Tatiana as "performative" and possibly inauthentic.

“Tatiana is just staring lovingly at her husband as if he just discovered quantum physics... I'm all about pushing limits.” — Stephanie Soo, [11:41]

Notable Quotes from Club Scenes

• “Sex is the center of our universe and everything we derive around it and it revolves around it.” — Mark Remley, [14:08]
• “There's something enticing about their energy... I cannot stop myself. Like all the taboos of this world, everything just dissolves in their energy.” — Tatiana Remley, [14:32]

3. Tatiana’s Past: Fabricated Persona and Relationship Patterns

[27:28–32:29]

• Tatiana's real name may be Tanya; her Russian identity is speculated as an affectation.
• Her ex-husband Ken Wolcott describes a childhood in rural Oregon, possible involvement with a cult-like religious group, social isolation, and lack of formal education.
• Tatiana has a pattern of seeking and depending on wealthy partners; friends describe her as an enigma, possibly shaped by trauma.

“Tatiana is perhaps a persona that she made up. And maybe it came from childhood trauma... She just needs a character that she would become that wasn't tortured.” — Stephanie Soo, [29:44]

4. Relationship with Mark Remley: Toxic Codependency and Financial Ruin

[32:29–37:08]

• Mark appears besotted, indulging Tatiana's every whim—business, sexual, financial.
• After Valitar, further failed ventures include a cycling studio making just $51k in a year and a women's polo team ending abruptly after Tatiana is injured in the opening match.
• Mark files for bankruptcy amidst lavish spending and mounting debts.

“He did whatever she said. Didn't matter if it was a good idea, bad idea, made no difference... He just threw money at whatever it is she wanted to do. He was her dog.” — Mutual friend, [37:08]

5. Divorce, Downward Spiral, and Murder Plot

[37:53–43:32]

• As the marriage collapses, divorce proceedings become fiercely contested. Tatiana, dissatisfied as her “allowance” drops from $50,000/month to $12–15,000/month, sues for more support and property.
• Their Del Mar mansion burns in a suspicious fire; Tatiana is found at the scene with three guns and ammunition.
• Tatiana solicits a mutual friend to kill Mark for $2 million, using a potential payout from his own assets—a request promptly reported to police, leading to Tatiana’s arrest during a sting at Starbucks.

“She would be using Mark Remy’s money to kill Mark Remy to get the rest of Mark Remy’s money.” — Stephanie Soo, [34:07]

• Mark continues seeing Tatiana even after her release from jail for the murder-for-hire plot.
• [43:56]: Serious accusations are leveled in divorce court: Tatiana alleges Mark orchestrated her sexual assault during a home invasion and left a decapitated horse statue as a threat. Mutual friends, however, suspect Tatiana orchestrated the event herself as part of a boundary-pushing fantasy.

6. Tatiana’s Death & Lingering Mysteries

[48:05–54:17]

• After serving only a year in jail (out of a four-year sentence for solicitation to commit murder), Tatiana spirals further—multiple run-ins with authorities, including an arson charge for the Del Mar fire.
• Shortly after FaceTiming Mark from a bar, Tatiana dies in public from a self-inflicted gunshot wound, just ten days after her 44th birthday.
• The question of Tatiana's role as “victim vs. perpetrator” lingers, complicated by rumors about the suspicious death of Tatiana’s friend Cheryl.

“Maybe people close to Tatiana saw something that we probably don’t see... but ultimately they thought she was a good person. I don’t know. I don’t know.” — Stephanie Soo, [51:52]

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Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• [05:45] Co-host: “She spent $20 million?”
• [13:52] Stephanie Soo: “Tatiana gets up on the table and starts eating a bunny meal... the camera is behind her, and [Mark] is, like, lifting up her skirt.”
• [21:54] Co-host (On Mark calling his former business partner): “Damn.”
• [22:46] Stephanie Soo: “That’s a very odd choice, right? ... That was her idea. Mark’s not even that creative to come up with a pseudonym like that. So I’m sure she picked it.”
• [33:50] Co-host: “What? So what? Two million? That’s probably crazy. Like, that’s the highest we’ve ever heard, right?”
• [38:06] Stephanie Soo: “Her lawyer complains about how she was living off of $50,000 a month as her allowance when they were married. And he’s cutting it down to $12–15,000 a month, which is just like an unreasonable amount.”
• [43:56] Stephanie Soo: "…the most disturbing allegation in the divorce comes out where Tatiana claims Mark...holds Tatiana at gunpoint and essays her while Mark is watching. And then cuts the head off of their horse statue and throws it on the bed."
• [45:52] Stephanie Soo: "He believes that Tatiana is the one that orchestrated all of this. And she was always the one wanting to go to these clubs, wanting to do these types of things, wanting to get intimate with other people."
• [51:14] Co-host: "So it was like there were a... It's in front of a store?"
• [53:43] Co-host: "Even what we see from the outside is insane. Right. Their lifestyle already insane. So you can only imagine what's more that's not disclosed."

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [00:45]–[07:17]: Valitar horse show, financial excess, and failure
• [07:18]–[19:09]: Sanctum sex club, reality show, and Remleys’ pseudonyms
• [27:28]–[32:29]: Tatiana’s mysterious past and reconstructed identity
• [32:29]–[37:08]: The Mark–Tatiana relationship and downward financial spiral
• [37:53]–[43:32]: Divorce, fire, and hitman plot
• [43:56]–[47:08]: Sexual assault allegations, fire/arson, poisoning suspicions
• [48:05]–[54:17]: Tatiana’s death, questions of victimhood/perpetration, unresolved mysteries

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Conclusion

Stephanie Soo masterfully narrates the descent of Tatiana Remley from high-society swinger and reality TV subject to sensational murder-for-hire accused, arson suspect, and ultimately, a tragic, public suicide. Through exhaustive research and wry, often darkly comic commentary, Stephanie peels back the layers of performative glamour, trauma, and dysfunction underpinning Tatiana’s life and relationships. The episode closes on unresolved mysteries—particularly the death of friend Cheryl—and the question of how much we’ll ever truly understand about what drove Tatiana Remley or the role of the men in her orbit.

Questions for Listeners:

• Was Tatiana a victim, a perpetrator, or both?
• Did her traumatic upbringing and performative identity fuel her later choices?
• How much did the elite, secretive environment she and Mark inhabited contribute to their downfall?

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For those seeking a riveting, detailed journey through decadence, duplicity, and tragedy among the uber-wealthy, this episode is unmissable.

Transcript

[Narrator]

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There are a lot of signs that someone doesn't like you, and one of them would be having a decapitated horse statue head left on your bed. But that's exactly what happens to Mark and Tatiana Remy. This is part two of that entire case. Please go listen to the audio podcast Part one. Otherwise none of this is going to make sense. But we have at the center of all of this, Mark and Tatiana Remy. They are honestly like a hot rich couple from Southern California and they're loaded. They spend $20 million to make this horse show called Valitar. It's going to be a mix of Cirque du Soleil and horse riding. Tatiana is going to be the face of the entire show and it's going to be amazing. Until it's not. Until they abandon all the other performers and their horses, leaving them in just this massive red circus tent in the middle of San Diego, California, with no way to get back, with no way to even feed the horses. They leave them high and dry after just two performances of Valit because it's a completely failed attempt. And it seems like the only thing going right in Tatiana and Mark Remy's life is their sex life, where they constantly frequent an elite swingers club sex club called Sanctum. This is where you go when not only do you want to see hot people do each other, you want to see someone dressed up in a historically probably factual costume of Mary Antoinette doing the bounce on a champagne bottle. That is the club that you go to. It is rumored by Business Insider that Gwyneth Paltrow yet was a former Member of Sanctum. So this is like a high end Hollywood intimate club. And they were frequent members. They're actually even part of a reality show that we're about to get into. So buckle up for part two. And with that being said, let's get started. Everybody is left high and dry at the Valetara horse show. The horses are left, the performers are left. I mean, that's not even figurative. This is like real. The horses are left to starve. One of the biggest problems with the show that a lot of people say in hindsight is that Tatiana sucks at riding horses. And that's mean, right? She's fine, she's mediocre. But she has nowhere near the writing ability that seasoned professionals have. You cannot compare a weekend golfer to someone at the pga. But Mark and Tatiana want her to be the star of the show, and everybody else has to accommodate her, even if that means they have to lower their skills to make sure that she shines the hardest. I mean, to give you a little bit more context on Tatiana's capabilities, she would often just go out there. So they had two shows. Her face is plastered all over the billboards. If I buy a ticket to Valitar, what am I expecting when this blonde woman comes out on a horse? I'm expecting a somersault in the air, land on a horse and then do a headstand. Eat your lunch off your feet. Like, I'm expecting some sort of holy cow. This is the most climactic part of this entire performance. This was worth all this money that I could have used for, I don't know, bills. But instead, a horse show, Like, I'm getting something out of this, right? She would just come out on her horse and do a few figure eights. Not on the horse. Like, she's not doing figure eights on the horse. She's just riding the horse like a normal person. And the horse is doing figure eights. It's not like she's walking. Like the horse is just trotting in a figure eight. And the whole thing is awkward because everybody in the crowd, the customers, they're sitting at the edge of their seat, they're holding their breath. The music is getting more climactic. They're expecting something insane. But then she just disappears. It's said by people who went to the first two performances, nobody even knew how to respond. So they were just all looking at the person that they came with. Like, what? And clapping like, what's happening? This caused so much tension that a lot of the seasoned professionals that would have Performed to bring in the viewers. They all end up leaving. There are allegations that the couples just. They also just spent money that didn't make any sense. Some people said that they were willing to spend unreasonable amounts of money on billboard advertisements with Tatiana's face everywhere. They were willing to spend money on Tatiana's costumes. But then when a horse would get injured, they would cheapen out.

[Co-host]

So they're trying to do this thing for all the wrong reasons.

[Narrator]

Yes.

[Co-host]

Like, she want to be, like, a celebrity horse rider.

[Narrator]

Yeah. I don't even think she wants to be a celebrity horse rider. A mutual friend of theirs would later come out and say her goal in life was to be a housewife. But not the housewife. You're thinking one of the housewives of a major city on the Bravo TV network. Housewives of Orange County.

[Co-host]

Real housewives.

[Narrator]

Yeah. The Real Housewives of Beverly Hills. That was her goal. Yeah.

[Co-host]

And she spent $20 million.

[Narrator]

Yeah.

[Co-host]

I feel like there's got to be a cheaper way.

[Narrator]

I feel like you could have paid. I don't know who the is. It's still the Cohen guy. You could have paid. I feel like bribery could have been a good answer for that one. Someone in the Bravo TV network. I think you could have bribed them for way less than $20 million. No offense.

[Co-host]

That's crazy.

[Narrator]

Yeah. In another instance, this is very dumb, but apparently Tatiana just shows up one day with a new horse and just casually mentions, oh, I got a new horse. Okay, These are horse people. They know horses. And there really is no price, no value that you can put on a majestic horse's life. But you can, because that is a $30,000 hors. That's a $30,000 horse. They ask her how much she paid for it. $70,000. Again, you can't put a price on life. You can't put a price on a horse. But that's a $30,000 horse.

[Co-host]

She got scammed.

[Narrator]

Yes, she got scammed. $40,000 more. A mutual friend who witnessed this later says the asking price for the horse at the time was $30,000. So she managed to spend 40,000 more than the asking price Just because she decided she wanted that horse. And someone saw something Sucker written on her face. I guess that was their quote, not mine. Wow. Yeah. After the fall of Valitar, the Remleys come home one day, and one of the valuable horse statues in the house is left decapitated on their bed. Like I said, it's a threat at this point. Mark and Tatiana, they have a lot of Enemies. A lot of people who hate them.

[Co-host]

So someone broke into their house. One of the.

[Narrator]

Yes. Forced their way in.

[Co-host]

Force their way in.

[Narrator]

And Tatiana claims she knows exactly who did this. She knows exactly who's behind it. It's none other than her own husband, Mark Remy. I think stereotypes are inherently really bad, but one could argue that Mark and Tatiana don't really care. They kind of fit it. Everyone around them knew it. Mark is rich, worth close to $30 million. Tatiana is very hot. I would say out of couples I've seen in Southern California, There isn't even a massive discrepancy in appearance between the two. Both of them are conventionally attractive. They seemed like they would hit it off.

[Co-host]

How old are they?

[Narrator]

They're. He's probably like in his 50s. She's probably in her 30s at this point.

[Co-host]

Oh, yeah, okay.

[Narrator]

240S. 40s. They meet at a Starbucks. A chance meeting. Mark falls in love, marries Tatiana, moves her into his $5.5 million house. And now they're on a reality show called Naked Sanctum. It's all about the Sanctum Sex Club. It's. It's a whole season. A documentary following the founder, Damon. He goes around and it shows him preparing for these sexual ARR. Erotic events while his entire family life falls apart. It's like riveting and depressing at the same time. The minute things start getting hot, if you will, in the documentary, it cuts to him being like, yes, so my daughters won't talk to me anymore because they're getting bullied at school because someone found out about my job on Instagram. And yeah, they're bullying them. And I'm like, oh, that's not the right time to put that part in. And then it cuts to him having like a three person intimate party with two young girls of age, women of age in his bedroom. And then it's just like a monologue. It cuts him sitting there being like, I miss my ex wife. I think she was my soulmate, but she left me because I chose this life and she didn't. And then it just like cuts to like moaning noises. Mary Antoinette with a champagne bottle. And then it cuts to him being like, I'm actually really lonely. So I'm like, okay, I don't know how to feel. Damon is a very interesting guy. He says he has a lot of knowledge of the human intimate experience. Now, just from running Sanctum, he says, you know, a lot of husbands, they bring their wives and watching their wives interact and have intense intimate relations with another person in front of them is hot. Basically, he's talking about Cuck. He says, the guys I've talked to directly about it say they get turned on seeing their partner turned on. They genuinely don't have jealousy or fear. They know that the woman's coming home with them. They know that they're not worried, and they really like to see their partner get pleasure from somebody else. That just turns them on. Also, of course, they're with another woman, so they have freedom too. So I'm like, okay, maybe they're swingers. Even for a couple that don't do anything, you know, a guy sees other guys hitting on his wife and he's like, oh, yeah, I forgot my wife is hot. I forgot how hot she is. Or like, you know, the same thing in the other direction. It was healthy for a lot of people. You know, a lot of people told me it saved their marriage. But obviously it's not just a great therapeutic experience for married couples. He mentions one time there was this very famous actress who came into an open room just having intense intimate relations with her husband and another guy. And he says, I could tell she was on too much Xanax or something. And it was like, like it was not good. We had to break it up because it seemed like she was not in her right mind. Which I believe. Now that he's left Sanctum, if you're interested in following his life ever, he owns a restaurant bar on Sunset Boulevard in LA called Puzzle. It's kind of like Sanctum. There's dancers, but it's a dinner and you can't have full blown intimate relations. But one review from someone, I don't think they realized the environment they were getting into. The review reads, we went to Puzzle last weekend for my birthday. We went to the restaurant and the lady who was attending to us first of all was clueless. It was a tiny place, barely 10 tables. Music was no good. The singers were singing and dancing literally on top of our heads. The dancing lady did nothing but take off her clothes with the music and stayed almost naked the whole time. I was confused. Yeah, but in the reality show that aired a few years back, there's a very specific couple on there. A couple shows up under the pseudonyms of Vladimir and his wife Ileana. But they get invited to this exclusive. So Damon is holding a private dinner at his house in the Hollywood Hills, I believe, very close to the Playboy Mansion, which would also make it very close to Sean Diddy Combs house. Here we are again. Right? But they will eat, they will watch each other Eat. And they will eat, and they will eat other things and watch each other eat other things and then repeat. And not all the steps are obviously involving food, but Vladimir and his wife are seated at the table. These are pseudonyms. It's not Vladimir and Ileana. It's Mark Remy and Tatiana Remy just sitting there in the flesh. Okay. Mark Ruemley says what Damon has created here is an opportunity for people to open their minds. Tatiana is just staring lovingly at her husband as if he just discovered quantum physics. She's like, nodding. And then she chimes in. I'm all about pushing limits. And we're going to follow Sanctum, and we're going to go where it goes and just pursue it and enjoy it and life and pursue ourselves and our love and our romance and our sexuality. And I had zero clue what that meant. And once most of the meal is over with, all prepared by this personal chef that had a Michelin star restaurant, I believe. A violinist walks down the steps of the mansion, and in walk two girls wearing bunny masks, and they're naked. One has the word touch written on her chest. The other one has Eat me written on her chest. So it's very like, the directions are pretty clear. They're climbing onto the table, they just start making out before heading into the final act where they're just both, like, laying on the dinner table doing things.

[Co-host]

The violinist later says, they're showing all of this in the show you don't like.

[Narrator]

You see lots of nudity, but you don't see explicit.

[Co-host]

I see intercourse.

[Narrator]

Oh, yeah, but you like.

[Co-host]

Okay.

[Narrator]

I don't know if YouTube likes that word. You're just, okay. But, like, you see, you see where the placement of body parts are. So you infer. Right.

[Co-host]

Okay.

[Narrator]

Obviously, you know, the violinist is standing there and she says, I was just trying to focus on playing the violin really well, which obviously takes a little bit of focus. And then it just like, cuts to her playing the violin, and her eyes are just staring at the two girls on the dinner table. And I'm like, what am I watching? Then another girl comes in with a maid costume with the cake. The two original girls. Somehow there's like giant carrots put inside the cake. They take out the carrots. You know what they do with carrots. And then they're like, there's icing everywhere. And then at one point, Tatiana gets up on the table and starts eating a bunny meal.

[Co-host]

Like, with one of the girls, you were saying, yes.

[Narrator]

And Mark Remy is just admiring his wife visually and physically. And the Camera is, like, behind her, and he's, like, lifting up her skirt. I don't know. And then she finally gets up and she jokes, I think I look guilty. And he says, you do. The proof is on your mouth. Because she has icing on her mouth now. Then it just cuts to them sitting together outside. And Mark Ramlee says, the entertainment is, bar none. And Tatiana looks really serious, as if she is witnessing a profound, enlightening. Mom. Beautiful. She's like, interjecting beautiful. He says, the quality of the performers, you know, the sexuality that they exude, you just. It just gets you off. It gets you going. It really does. Tatiana says the bunnies were beautiful. They're sensuous. There's something enticing about their energy, and it draws me to them. I cannot stop myself. Like all the taboos of this world, everything just dissolves in their energy. And then it cuts to one of the bunnies coming over to hug Tatiana. And Mark is just watching as they just start getting unclothed. And we see Tatiana unclothed, and they just start doing a lot of things. And Mark Remy tells the viewers, you know, sex is probably the biggest part of our lives. Yes. Tatiana's gonna say yes. Sex is the center of our universe and everything we derive around it and it revolves around it. And in the beginning of our relationship, we weren't into this lifestyle, but as time grew on and our sexuality grew together and Sanctum made it all that much more amazing. Mark continues, I'm kind of like an adrenaline junkie, actually. You know, I love to take risks, and I love to live life on the edge. I'm drawn to things that push the limits. Tatiana looks at him. And we live life to the fullest every moment we can. I think people have a hard time in this environment, in this country, in this day and time, embracing their sexuality and embracing, you know, being all that you can be. 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[Co-host]

Do you know if this is before or after or just happening at the same time?

[Narrator]

Happening seems like at the same time, yeah. And the founder of Sanctum is asked about the couple because, you know, he saw them and then, you know, they make news later. And he says they seem to be really happy with what was going on. They seemed really happy with each other and really excited about the experience. I mean, they seemed really into it. It's just that the wife, Tatiana, didn't really seem like an authentic character to me. She seemed a little bit fake. You know, I've been doing this a while, and I've been dealing with people like this a long time, and I have a pretty good sense of character at this point. There was something off about her, for sure, but I don't think he saw it. I think he was in love with her. I think he really cared for her. Whatever she was pulling, I don't think he was aware of it. So he's just saying, like, the way she's describing, like, it was beautiful. It was magical. So I, unfortunately, I watched. I mean, I couldn't really find the exact episode that they were featured in. So just to be thorough, I watched the whole season, even though they showed up in, like, episode three. I don't know why I did that, but I thought they would show up again. I don't know. But all the other very wealthy couples that go on there, they're very blunt about the experience. They're like, yeah, it's hot. Like, it's hot. We do it. It gets us going, and then we're hotter to each other and we like it. It's hot. But then when you see Tatiana, it's very, like, ethereal and spiritual. And it's like this moment when all the other couples are like, I just like looking at hot people do hot things, and it makes my husband and wife hotter. To me, that was about it. So I think that's what he's insinuating. It just felt. And it did feel performative in the sense of, like, you do meet some people who are very into, like. Like, tantric experiences where they think and they genuinely feel. It's like an awakening as they're doing certain things with their partner. And it's like this connection that transcends above all in this very physical moment. But that was not the vibe that she was giving.

[Co-host]

She's just performative, like being. Doing a lot.

[Narrator]

Yeah, Yeah. A former business partner of Mark's that also knew Tatiana says, I mean, at one point, Mark was just calling him non stop. Like he's explaining, he's just calling me non stop.

[Co-host]

What does that mean?

[Narrator]

So he used to work with Mark. They had multiple failed business deals. They're not really besties anymore. There's no reason for them to be calling each other. They don't really have a friendship outside of that. But Mark keeps calling him and it's like, come to San Diego. Let's hang out. And he's like, what are we gonna do? Hang out? Like, are you trying to get me into another business venture that's gonna fail? And he's like, no, let's just hang out. He's like, I don't know why you keep saying hang out. We're not really friends. He says, quote, eventually I got sick of dealing with Mark and I stopped returning his phone call. A month later, maybe two months later, a mutual friend of ours was at my place. And we were just talking about it, and I just brought it up like, this weird thing, like, why was Mark Remy bothering me? And he immediately knew the answer, and he just said, oh, Tatiana wants to sleep with you while he watches.

[Co-host]

Damn.

[Narrator]

So apparently they were trying to get me to come down there and have sex with Tatiana while Mark watched. For whatever reason, we never did get the answer if he went or not. But here's a very odd detail. On the show, they go as Vladimir and Ileana, which seems like a random choice of pseudonyms for the show. And there is a speculation of a intense interest in Russian culture and Russian aesthetics. And no one really knows if Tatiana is even Russian, because we don't think Tatiana is her real name. We'll get to it, but it's. It's not random. Tatiana has allegedly stated in the past that she was essayed by her brother. Now, the people she told about this, she told them that her brother's name was Vladimir. Okay, so why would you choose a pseudonym for your husband? That is, first of all, your brother, even if he didn't assault you? That's a very odd choice, right?

[Co-host]

Or like, that's not even her brother's name.

[Narrator]

Right.

[Co-host]

It's just weird connection.

[Narrator]

Yeah, Very off and the mutual friend said there's something wrong with her. That it's really weird thing to do. I mean 100%. I know that Mark didn't pick the name. That was her idea. Mark's not even that creative to come up with a pseudonym like that. So I'm sure she picked it. And why would she pick that name if that's who molested her? Her brother. Even if he didn't molest her. Just her brother's name. Really bizarre. Friends say their relationship was just getting toxic. They had a much healthier relationship in the beginning. Aside from the colossal financial failure that was Valitar, at least they were both business oriented. They're always working on something. Is it the best thing in the world? No. Is it something that's gonna run them into bankruptcy? Perhaps. But it's something. Eventually their entire relationship just revolves around sleeping with different people. The Del Mar Fire Department get a phone call. A residential home is on fire. The entire house is up in flames. And it's a big one. It's $5.5 million of the house burning to the ground. Firefighters get to the scene, put out the fire before it can start spreading. But it's just weird. You can tell that this is not a normally occurring fire. This doesn't even seem like an accident. And like yes, we are in Southern California, but this doesn't make sense. The bomb and arson unit of the Del Mar Fire Department start investigating the cause of the fire. And the first persons of interest are going to be whoever is at the scene of the crime. That makes sense. And they find two women. One of them interestingly has. Has three guns with her and a ton of ammunition. I mean technically she does have every right to be there though. Kind of because it's the house that she shares with Mark. What the hell is Tatiana Remley doing there with guns and ammunition when the house is burning down? Some people just have a lot more targets on their back than others. Some people could go the rest of their lives and no one wants to harm them. And then you have someone like Mark Remy, Co founder of Signal Corp. Tech company that lives off of DoD Department of Defense contracts. They operate, execute large scale federal IT project, primarily dealing with high end government contracts. He was almost a VP there for 20 years. Executive VP, Chief Information Officer. The company had an annual sales at its peak surpassing $600 million from the government. Eventually he retires. Mark Remli inherits close to $26 million. And that seems to be a mix from his work at Signal. When he exits and from his parents passing, so they're all wealthy. And that's when he meets Tatiana at Starbucks. And it's not the worst of the book tropes, but it does feel like something that only happens in like a modern contemporary romance in the category of rom com that doesn't take itself too seriously. Like that's the vibe it gives. They get married and suddenly Tatiana has a $218,000 engagement ring. The first year that they're married. Because now Tatiana has to fit into this higher, upper class life. He buys her $200,000 worth of clothes. Yeah.

[Co-host]

$200,000.

[Narrator]

Yeah.

[Co-host]

Worth of clothes.

[Narrator]

Worth of clothes. Okay, I saw the clothes. Okay.

[Co-host]

Just like designer on designer on designer.

[Narrator]

Not a lot of clothes though, for clothes.

[Co-host]

Really?

[Narrator]

Yeah, I think it was a lot of lingerie for $200,000. And she moves into the five and a half million dollar house. They have multiple properties all over San Diego, Hawaii, California. And by the way, that's not like a weird remark, I think. I think like, if you want to, you can wear whatever you want to wear. I was just saying $200,000 is like an unthinkable amount to spend on clothing. Yeah, I'm like expecting a house full of clothes. You get the house and the clothes and it's just they. They're living this life. She even posts on Facebook in Hawaii, making lunch in the kitchen. And you just see this massive rainbow across the island. But there are some things that even money cannot buy. Like some things that you can't even pay someone to make you forget. Like your ex. Because 1300 miles away from Valitar, the horse show near Seattle, Washington, on a giant billboard taking up the eyeball real estate of a boring highway where there's really nothing to look at except for the exit signs and maybe a chick fil a sign, maybe an in and out sign. There's just a giant billboard of Tatiana, her blonde hair next to her two beautiful horses. They don't necessarily have any. Valeter doesn't really have active plans to do shows in Seattle. Barely have shows in California. But the billboard is there because that is the road that Ken Wolcott, a very wealthy man. Ken is a real estate developer in Seattle, part owner of the NBA Sonics. He's worth close to $40 million. He lives in Seattle and he takes this highway every damn day to get to work. And he has to see his goddamn ex wife blown up on the side of the road. He might be one of the few people that know a lot about Tatiana. And he's got to look at her every single day.

[Co-host]

That's fucking crazy.

[Narrator]

Yeah.

[Co-host]

So she only did that on that one specific billboard in that city for her ex husband to look at.

[Narrator]

Yeah.

[Co-host]

Is it to rub it on his face or.

[Narrator]

Okay, yeah. They had very contentious divorce and he seems like he is the only one that might know a lot about Tatiana. I mean, there's not a lot about her out there. There's so much of her out there, but really not a lot about her out there. That is crazy.

[Co-host]

This is like one of the craziest days.

[Narrator]

Her, her name is probably not even Tatiana. It's speculated that she was born Tanya.

[Co-host]

Uh huh.

[Narrator]

Her. Tatiana's parents seem to have like a Russian fixation. Tatiana perhaps leaned into it. It seems like maybe they had some Russian heritage in their family. I don't know. Her parents are just from Bend, Oregon. Tatiana was born in Phoenix, Arizona, and it's speculated she was Tanya. They never really went to Russia. They never grew up in Russia. Not saying that you have to grow up in Russia to be part of the Russian culture or to your Russian ancestry. It's just her parents are Vera and Brian and she just leans into the Russian aesthetic really hard and then she starts leaning out. I think that's where it gets interesting.

[Co-host]

Leaning out as like her look or her look.

[Narrator]

The, the obsessions that she has. So when she was very into the Russian aesthetic, it was all about how you can be an equestrian in like the Russian way. So every different country has their own style of horse riding. So Russia has a very specific type and they like specific horses that fit that aesthetic. And you have like the long blowing blonde hair. And then you wear like very swaying fabrics. It's like a very specific look. And then you have like the country girl horse, which is like you've got the tight jeans, you've got the boots, you've got the cowboy hat. All so beautiful. But it's like a very different aesthetic. So she just kind of picks and chooses. And some people speculate she picks and chooses depending on what she thinks the guy that she is dating will like.

[Co-host]

I see. So you're saying, so if the guy.

[Narrator]

Is like, I love me a cowgirl, she will be a cowgirl. If the guy is like, I love like that Eastern European.

[Co-host]

Yeah, yeah.

[Narrator]

You know, some American dude is like, I love an exotic.

[Co-host]

Yeah, got it.

[Narrator]

That would. Then she might lean into that. But I will say a mutual friend does say something very interesting. They say Tatiana is perhaps a Persona that she made up. And maybe it came from Childhood trauma. And she just like, needs a character that she would become that wasn't tortured. I don't know, but I don't think any of it is real. So that's what the friend says about Tatiana being a character that she plays. Ken Wolcott, Tatiana's ex husband, says her childhood was really rough. She grew up near Bend, Oregon, but in the rural area. She didn't have any social interactions really with anybody growing up. It sounds like her parents might have been involved in a religious group that might border the loosely defined word of a cult. She wasn't allowed to have traditional medicine or medical care. It's believed that her family fully rejected all forms of any life saving medicines, any discomfort, leaving medicines. The way Ken Wolcott saw it and the way he later describes it is he thinks a lot of Tatiana's emotional disruption comes from the fact that she was essentially held captive for 10 years by her parents. They didn't allow her to have any friends. She wasn't even enrolled in school after the fourth grade. Impressively, she got her ged, but it was just a rough life. Before marrying Ken Wolcott, Tatiana had a daughter with a separate guy. Now she marries Ken, has a son with him, and they are married for a total of 11 months. And short does not mean simple, because their divorce is very, very messy. Ken alleges that Tatiana misused his finances. More specifically, he gave Tatiana a card to use to purchase clothes. She would buy the clothes with his credit card and then return the clothes and then ask for cash for the return instead of for returning it back to the card, which I feel like that's impressive. And I feel like, as a husband, you should support that because why are you okay with her spending the money on clothes unless she's spending the cash on something else? I don't know. You would think that a millionaire would be impressed by her financial ability to think ahead, but no, he's very upset. He also accused Tatiana being inattentive to their son, who was born with extra support needs. And that's when they separate. He says that he wasn't Gonna send her $9,000 a month to care for their son because she's using it fully on herself. She's not using it on their son. So he wants full custody of the son and he wants to stop paying her child support. He also just overall disagrees with the way that she's living her life. So ultimately he ends up with full custody. But this is where things get interesting, and I think this is where lots have sympathy For Tatiana, all the guys in her life still like her to some degree. Because he continues paying child support even though he has full custody, like, out of his own volition. It's not because the judge orders him to. Okay, So, I mean, there must be something that they see that is good in Tatiana, perhaps.

[Co-host]

Okay.

[Narrator]

So just keep this in mind.

[Co-host]

Okay.

[Narrator]

But some of Tatiana's friends say that she had a strong pattern of going after wealthy guys and then depending on them for her financial needs. But she also seems to have an energy that they seem to love. According to friends, the relationship between Mark and Tatiana Remley is interesting. Technically, on paper, Mark is the one with the power. He's got the substantial resources. But friends say he's like a dog, like a little puppy dog. He's obsessed with Tatiana. Whatever she wants, he's doing it, no questions asked. Mark seems so obsessed with Tatiana, even to the point where he still loves her, no matter if they fail at their businesses, lose $20 million if she frivolously spends money purchasing billboards for her ex husband, if she goes to intimate parties and has intimate relations with other people in front of him. Him. And even when she tries to have him killed. August 2, 2023, there is another chance encounter at Starbucks. Or at least that's what it feels like. It's a very casual meeting. A guy sitting on the patio with a nice drink. He's wearing a tank top and shorts. It's August. It's hot. And then you have a woman sitting there. At one point, he leans in, says something to the woman before getting up and walking into the Starbucks and entering the restroom. She leans back in her chair, waiting for him. And that is when four San Diego police officers pull up in two separate vehicles. Tatiana Remley, you under arrest for trying to hire an undercover officer to kill your husband for $2 million.

[Co-host]

What? So what? Two million? That's probably crazy. Like, that's like the highest we've ever heard, right?

[Narrator]

Yeah. And it's not $2 million that she has. I mean, perhaps the worst part of all of this is that she would be using Mark Remy's money to kill Mark Remy to get the rest of Mark Remy's money.

[Co-host]

Do you know how she did it? Is it just like, googling and.

[Narrator]

No, you're gonna. Well, I don't want to say that, but you're gonna laugh. She reached out. I mean, these are all. They're all like swingers. They're reaching out. They're doing things with each other. She reaches out to a Mutual friend of them and is like, hey, can you kill my husband? He's like, let me think about it.

[Co-host]

It's crazy.

[Narrator]

Call San Diego police. Oh, my God.

[Co-host]

It always happens like this, too.

[Narrator]

Yeah.

[Co-host]

They're just like calling friends and calling someone so randomly.

[Narrator]

I don't know who in their life knows anyone that would have any experience with a hitman. Yeah.

[Co-host]

Okay. So. So the mutual friend just called the cops.

[Narrator]

Called the cops and was like, I don't know what to do. Calls Mark and is like, hey, Mark, you better watch out. So then the cops are like, we know what to do. Tell her you know somebody who can do it. Undercover cop. They meet at a Starbucks. Something about Starbucks.

[Co-host]

Did they record the body cams?

[Narrator]

No. Yeah. And so he goes into the restroom. She gets arrested.

[Co-host]

So. And you said the friend called Mark as well.

[Narrator]

Yeah.

[Co-host]

So Mark knew.

[Narrator]

Yeah. And Mark actually dates her after she gets out of prison.

[Co-host]

Oh.

[Narrator]

So, okay. Yeah.

[Co-host]

Wow.

[Narrator]

Yeah.

[Co-host]

Now, how did we get here? How did she go from murdering. Attempt murder.

[Narrator]

Yes. How did she go from attempted murder to what?

[Co-host]

No, go from everything that they're. They're doing to, like, all of a sudden attempt murder?

[Narrator]

Oh, yeah. Let me tell you. There is a saying that if you want to live a financially stable life, you don't date someone who treats money like water. Because no matter how much you cup your hands, if you try to keep water in your hands, the money's going out. You're not going to be able to cap it. Obviously, this is not towards people who have reasonable bills to pay. And the cost of living is drastically higher than the wages that are being offered in the job market. This is for people that whenever they get extra disposable cash, they buy the most ridiculous thing that they don't even need. And it's not even just them spoiling themselves to feel good about this impending recession and doom and depression. It's like, why did you buy the 12th air fryer of the year? Like, you don't need 12 air fryers. Those are the types of people that it's going to be very difficult to live a financially responsible life. And that might be Tatiana. And Mark acted like he had unlimited water after the $20 million fail that was Valitar. They open up Rhythm and Power, a cycling studio, like a soul cycle. After a year being open, suddenly members get an email that they're going to have random improvements done in the store. So the store is going to close down. They recheck the website. Everything is checked. They go to the store, the studio, Had a staff of five people. And the full year that they were open, they only made $51,000.

[Co-host]

Wow.

[Narrator]

Then one day, Tatiana wakes up and she spontaneously decides that she's gonna be the head of a women's polo team, which cost Mark $500,000. To get the whole team together, they have to buy horses, they have to invest in the team. Team marketing, team shirts, team name, LLC rights. Yeah. And then they enter the San Diego Polo Club. And a few minutes. Minutes into their very first match, Tatiana falls off the horse, breaks her arm, and quits polo.

[Co-host]

Wow.

[Narrator]

A mutual friend describes their relationship as. He did whatever she said. Didn't matter if it was a good idea, bad idea, made no difference. I mean, he got drug around by her, doing what she wanted with no real saying it. He just threw money at whatever it is she wanted to do. He was her dog. People also say that Tatiana has always been, quote, a control freak. She likes to push boundaries, push limits. She's an instigator. And her biggest aspirations were to be the real housewife of insert Major City. That was her dream. And so after all of these business things, Mark Remy files for bankruptcy. And by the end of all of these failed business ventures, they decide that they are going to end their very tumultuous marriage. They are going to get a divorce. Mark Remy files for bankruptcy, they file for the divorce. And then Tatiana decides, I actually think I'm just gonna kill him instead.

[Co-host]

What's up? Where does that come from?

[Narrator]

She was not getting enough financial support from him. And I think if he died, perhaps she thought there was still money left that would go to her.

[Co-host]

You think it was a money motivation?

[Narrator]

Yes, because even in the divorce filings, her lawyer complains about how she was living off of $50,000 a month as her allowance when they were married. And he's cutting it down to 12 to $15,000 a month, which is just like an unreasonable amount. Wow. So according to the divorce documents, Mark Remy had invested. He still has. I think this is like after the bankruptcy. I don't how this works. Right. But he still had a portfolio worth about 8.6 million. A bank account with $400,000, and multiple multimillion dollar properties, vehicles, jewelry, all amounting to be $8.2 million. And so with that, the shit slinging divorce begins. Tatiana claims Mark was not only verbally and physically abusive, that he allegedly put a gun up to her head in front of another employee. And another time, he chased her around the house with a knife. According to Tatiana's divorce filings. He stole property from her. He, he destroyed her property. He's mentally unstable and after the massive financial colossal failure that was Valitar, he had a meltdown and he discharged one of his guns inside of their house and he has cut her off financially, which seems to be like the most contentious point. Tatiana's attorney argues the wife is experiencing extreme financial strain. She is unable to maintain her realistic monthly expenses of just $12,000, much less than what she was accustomed to at $50,000. She has no income and does not have the same access to fund assets that the respondent does. There is something I want to briefly talk about called the Shedding. And no, this isn't some new thriller streaming this weekend. In fact, it can be even more unsettling than a movie because you can't just turn it off. At first it's nothing, just a few strands on a pillow or some extra strands caught in your hair brush. You tell yourself it is normal. Everybody loses some hair, right? But then it's not just a few anymore. It's everywhere. 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See mintmobile.com Eating healthier always seems like a great New Year's resolution. Until it's late January and you have ordered out to eat more than you have expected, you see yourself spending more money on less healthy food. Here's the truth. You're not bad at eating healthy. You were just out of time. My Sundays used to be filled with meal prep and then hours of cleaning up. It just felt like a waste of a day and it wasn't worth it. Sometimes I'm in the mood to chef it up, but sometimes I simply just don't have the time. That's why I love Factor, especially their spicy jalapeno chicken. So good. It's one of my favorites. It has the right amount of kick and it doesn't get weirdly soggy. Factor Meals are already made by chefs, designed by dietitians and delivered straight to your door. Two minutes in the microwave and then, bam. You're ready. Real food ready to eat. They're packed with lean proteins, vibrant vegetables, whole food ingredients and healthy fats. Head to factor meals.com rotten50off and use code rotten50OFF to get 50% off your first factor box. Plus free breakfast for one year offer only valid for new Factor customers with code and qualifying auto renewing subscription purchase. Make healthier eating easy. With Factor. In the divorce, Tatiana is demanding $15,000 a month in spousal support and the use of the Del Mar home. The five and a half million dollar home. Two trucks, a horse trailer, an ATV and a few of their pets, including some parrots and some. Some goats. She's like, this is what I want in the divorce. But this is what's weird. That's the house that burned down. It's not like fully burned down, but it's pretty wrecked. Why does she want that Del Mar house?

[Co-host]

Wait, where. So the fire happened? I. I'm confusing with it.

[Narrator]

Yes. Okay, so all of their business failures happen. Yep. And then the fire happens. And then she very quickly is like, I'm gonna hire someone to kill him. And all of this.

[Co-host]

Where's the gun and ammos? And all that from the girl with the gun and ammo?

[Narrator]

Oh, yes. Okay. So all their failures happen they decide that they're gonna file for divorce. Then the house fire happens. Tatiana is there with a bunch of guns and ammunition. And now the fire department is investigating it for arson. And then she gets arrested for trying to hire a hit on her husband that they are in the process of divorcing right now.

[Co-host]

Right when the fire department came to the house, they got rid of the fire. What do you mean? Like, she's standing in the house holding a guy gun.

[Narrator]

She had them in her possession. And they. Yeah, so it gets tricky later. But she does get arrested for this fire later. They don't arrest her that day. They arrest her way later.

[Co-host]

They're just investigating what's going on. And then in their record, it's indicating that, oh, she was in the house and she has position of these firearms. I see.

[Narrator]

And then they don't do anything about it. They just continue investigating. Now the San Diego Police Department arrests her first for trying to hire a hit on her husband that she's in the middle of getting a divorce. Divorced from. So all of this is happening, but the most disturbing allegation in the divorce comes out where Tatiana claims throughout their marriage, there has been lots of heinous things that Mark has done to her. But one of the most heinous is that Mark coordinated with his friend. Mark's friend breaks into the house, forces their way into the house, holds Tatiana at gunpoint and essays her while Mark is watching. And then cuts the head off of their horse statue and throws it on the bed. This is an accusation that comes out during the divorce proceedings. And so she's saying, that horsehead statue, that was Mark's doing because he called his friend to come essay me while he just laughed. He laughed and he watched. And then they cut my horse statue's head off and then put it in the bed. Like a threat from the movie Godfather. Because there's, like, a scene, but I think it was a real horse head. I mean, a prop for the movie, but, like, supposed to be real. Again, another mutual friend of theirs does believe that this incident did take place where someone did force their way into the house. House and essayed Tatiana. But he says, quote, I think she's the one who orchestrated it, not him. That was totally her. She was always the one trying to get people to do things with her. That was her thing. Mark, I can't imagine Mark. I'd be surprised if he has that many friends, but I can't really imagine Mark actually orchestrating that on his own.

[Co-host]

So this friend is saying, this is something that she orchestrated as like a role play type of thing?

[Narrator]

Yeah. I don't know if that's accurate. It just. See, that's why a lot of people have mixed feelings about Tatiana. And even if you take Mark out of the picture, Is this somebody who is just very traumatized and is behaving very recklessly, but she is victim and perpetrator? Or some people are also like, yeah, but you probably wouldn't say that to a guy who tries to kill his wife. So it's just very complicated. But he believes that Tatiana is the one that orchestrated all of this. And she was always the one wanting to go to these clubs, wanting to do these types of things, wanting to get intimate with other people. That seems to be the assumption and what the mutual friends are saying. Mark has also claimed to a local news outlet that he believes that Tatiana was the one to burn their house down. And maybe that's not even the only time that she allegedly took measures to harm Mark. There were reports that the day before Tatiana was arrested, Mark had no idea that she was. I guess he knew. He had a heads up that she might try to kill him. But he didn't know what was happening because he ends up running to his neighbor's house, banging on the door, screaming that he's having a seizure. Neighbor said Mark looked horrendous. I mean, this guy is 57. He looked 77. That's how bad he looked. Neighbor calls the police. Mark is taken to the hospital.

[Co-host]

When was this?

[Narrator]

This is the day before she's arrested at that Starbucks. So some people think that she tried to poison in him before, and then she got arrested the next day. I don't know. That's all speculation. But this is just something happened the day before the arrest.

[Co-host]

Before we go there, about the fire. You're saying the fire people think she tried to kill him with the fire. So it wasn't for insurance or anything else.

[Narrator]

Yeah. And then she, in the divorce, wants to, like, stay in that house. And so people thought that was weird. So maybe there's some sort of evidence of ourselves person that she thinks if she's in the house, she's allowed to be on the property, only she's allowed there. She could dispose of or get rid of or control the investigation in some way, was the belief. And then the day before she's arrested, he's like running down the street screaming, I'm having a seizure. And he just looks so rough. That could be unrelated or it could be completely related. And then the next day she gets arrested December 18, 2025. So this is after all of this.

[Co-host]

This is a. A few months ago.

[Narrator]

Yeah. This is after their divorce is finalized. This is after she gets out of prison for trying to kill her husband. Yeah. We're gonna get into how much time she served. In the middle of San Diego's Little Italy neighborhood, outside of a bar, Tatiana Remley, who served her jail time for trying to get Mark killed. She's a free woman, and she is laying on the curb now with a gunshot wound to her head. She's dead. Two years before her death, she had pled guilty to solicitation to commit murder and a firearm charge. She was initially facing nine years in prison for the little Starbucks meetup and trying to kill Mark. However, she's ultimately sentenced to four years in prison, but she only ends up serving one year before being released. She gets out after one year, and when she gets out, she dates Mark here and there, starts dating other guys, and there are a few changes in her life. She kind of starts leaning more into that country girl scene and. And she starts posting really intense things on Facebook about how life is about what you make it. And quote, maturity is when you have the power to destroy someone who did you wrong, but you just breathe, walk away, and let life take care of them. Which some people think maybe there was a lot of trauma that she endured in previous relationships. Like, it just. No one really can understand what happened. Like, it's hard to pinpoint directly if she is a victim turn perpetrator, or if she just a straight perpetrator all the way through. So she switches from like the more Russian centered equestrian aesthetic to country girl. Horses, bikes, trailers, snakes. Like, that kind of vibe. She. She posts quotes like, everybody wants to be a country girl until the hay wagon rolls up and it's time to start stacking. And a lot of netizens are just confused at the time, like, how did she only get one year for arranging to kill her husband? And they all commented, California judges. Judges are insane. Which I would have to agree with that sentiment because court documents state that Tatiana was very thorough about how she wanted Mark to be decapitated, how she wanted his body to be deposed, disposed of, how she had all this cash saved up. I mean, she had a substantial amount of cash that they found on her, which was probably Mark's cash.

[Co-host]

How much?

[Narrator]

They just said substantial amount. And she had three loaded firearms that were not registered to her name. And maybe she received leniency for how dumb she was in her plot to kill. And no one Knows why she just served a year. Nobody knows. But after her release, she did see Mark on and off again until December of 2018. Well, actually, September of 2025, she gets arrested once more, this time for arson for that Del Mar fire in their five and a half million dollar house. She's actually awaiting trial. She pled not guilty. So she gets arrested in September of 2025. December of 2025, she's out in Little Italy. She FaceTimes Mark, her ex husband, in the bathroom of a bar. And she's complaining about the guy that she's with. And he's like, well, if you're really uncomfortable, I can call 911 for you. And she's like, no, I got it. Like, it's under control. It's gonna be fine. She walks out of the bar and she takes out the gun from her purse. Fires at once outside in the air. And then the second shot, she passes away. What? Yes. It's a very public.

[Co-host]

So it was like there were a. It's in front of a store.

[Narrator]

Yeah, it's just like in the middle of Little Italy. There was a few. There were a few witnesses who saw and witnessed the whole thing. And usually when people do things like that in public, it's like a last cry for help. It's almost like a lot of psychologists have said, it's like, do you see how much pain I'm in? And I will say that she was high risk for this type of incident, considering she was facing substantial social, legal, financial repercussions in life. So it just. But I don't know. I think it's really hard to say. I think people have very strange mixed feelings for Tatiana. I think given the fact that Mark dated her after she got out of prison. Her ex husband, Ken Wolcott, continued to pay child support even when she didn't have the child for at least an extended period of time, out of his own free will. It seems. Seems like maybe people close to Tatiana saw something that we probably don't see. Maybe she did have a very unstable childhood and they could see her instability seeping through. But ultimately they thought she was a good person. I don't know. I don't know. Wow. Yeah. But she died 10 days after her 44th birthday. But some other people think maybe there's actually something worse happening because there is an unanswered question in all of this. Tatiana's friend Cheryl mysteriously died around the time their house caught on fire. And there have been rumors in their circle that Tatiana could be involved. Tatiana claimed that her ex husband Mark was trying to falsely implicate her in her friend Cheryl's suspected murder. But she was due back in court for the arson charge March 3rd of 2020 26. But she.

[Co-host]

What happened to Cheryl?

[Narrator]

No one knows. I try to look into it. There's not much written about her. There's like, barely. Yeah.

[Co-host]

Wow.

[Narrator]

And now the question is, I guess, who killed Cheryl? Was Tatiana victim and a perpetrator or just a perpetrator, or does it even really matter?

[Co-host]

And what have.

[Narrator]

What.

[Co-host]

Did Mark make any statements after this?

[Narrator]

No. People think he's in Hawaii. His friend says that's where Mark goes when he runs away. To his house in Hawaii? Yeah.

[Co-host]

Wow. And ex husband. Nothing? No, no. Wow.

[Narrator]

What are your thoughts? It's. I mean, this was a very bizarre case.

[Co-host]

Oh, wow. I mean, I feel like there are just so much more behind closed doors, even.

[Narrator]

Just.

[Co-host]

Even, like what they. What we see from the outside is insane.

[Narrator]

Yeah.

[Co-host]

Right. Their lifestyle or already insane. So you can only imagine what's more that's not disclosed.

[Narrator]

And then obviously there's questions of. I mean, of course, all of their mutual friends are saying that Tatiana is the one that wanted the lifestyle. But I guess some netizens are also confused of maybe she got into the lifestyle and then was pressured to do things she didn't want to do or things happened and that led to her wanting people dead. Is that an excuse? No. But I guess there's just so many unanswered questions because it just got so unhinged.

[Co-host]

Yeah.

[Narrator]

So quickly in a way that doesn't necessarily make sense. What are your thoughts? Let me know in the comments. Stay safe and I'll see you in the next one. Bye. Suffering from dry, tired, irritated eyes. Don't let dry eyes win. Use Sustain Pro. It hydrates, restores and protects dry eyes for up to 12 hours. Sustain Pro Triple Action. Dry Eye Relief this episode is presented by 20th Century Studios. Send help. From the twisted mind of Sam Raimi, director of the Evil Dead and Drag Me to hell, starring Rachel McAdams and Dylan O', Brien, comes a new film that begs the question, what would you do if you were stuck on an island with your terrible Boss in paradise? HR can't hear you scream. Only in theaters and 3D January 30th. Get tickets now.