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I Saw Luigi Mangione In Court & This Is EVERYTHING That Happened
01:25:14
We went to see Luigi Mangione in court. September 16, 2025, in a New York State Courthouse, Mangione’s terrorism charges are dropped. The courtroom remains silent with court officers stationed at every corner. There are cheers from protestors right outside the courthouse. A strange energy clash between mainstream media and the members of the public who waited over 30 hours to get inside the courtroom. Protestors organized giant vans to circle the courthouse with Luigi Mangione’s face displayed on them. It feels like a big win for the Mangione legal team. Except… His attorneys argue that all 3 jurisdictions are fighting over who gets to be the one to take down Luigi Mangione. He still faces: Weapons charges in Pennsylvania. 2nd degree murder, weapons, and stalking charges in the state of New York. And the death penalty from the federal government. Full show notes at rottenmangopodcast.com
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- [00:00]
Rotten Mango Host
While on a luxury yacht for a travel assignment, a journalist witnesses a passenger tossed overboard late one night, only to be told that she must have dreamed it. As all the passengers are accounted for, despite not being believed by anyone on board, she continues to look for answers, putting her own life in danger. Starring Keira Knightley and based on the best selling novel by Ruth Ware. Watch the woman in Cabin 10 only on Netflix October 10th having insurance isn't the same as having State Farm. It's like showing up for movie night ready for a heart pounding thriller, but getting a three hour documentary on lawn care, that's kind of like insurance. Insurance may all seem the same on the surface, but when it comes to getting the help you need, State Farm is the real deal. You wouldn't settle for a snooze fest when you came for a thrill ride. So don't settle for just any insurance when there's State Farm. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Bada bing, bada boom. December 4, 2024. Brian Thompson, CEO of United Healthcare, is shot dead in front of his New York City hotel in Midtown Manhattan. Five days later in Pennsylvania, Luigi Mangioni shouts at the press. It is completely out of touch and an insult to the intelligence of the American people and their lived experience.
- [01:19]
Healthcare Activist/Protester
Completely out of dutch as an insult the intelligence of the American people.
- [01:26]
Rotten Mango Host
This is what he screams before. The police push him up against a brick wall to silence him and they force him inside the courthouse. He is then charged with crimes related to the death of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson. From Pennsylvania, Luigi Mangioni is shipped out to New York. He is once again arraigned for charges in connection with the death of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson. Then he's taken basically down the street to another courthouse, to the federal courthouse in New York City where he is for a third time arraigned for the death of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson. As we speak, Luigi Mangione faces three separate trials and charges for the events that allegedly he contributed to December of 2024. And it feels like all three jurisdictions are more or less in some sort of pissing contest to be the ones to take down 27 year old Luigi Mangione. He has charges in Pennsylvania which include forgery, carrying a firearm without a license, tampering with records of identification, possessing instruments of crime, and giving a false ID to an officer. Then in New York State court, he has a total of 11 charges. Murder in the first degree in furtherance of an act of terrorism, Murder in the second degree As a crime of terrorism and murder in the second degree with a non terrorism charge, along with four counts of third degree criminal possession of a weapon, Two counts of second degree criminal possession of a weapon and another fourth degree criminal possession of a weapon. And one count of second degree criminal possession of a forged instrument, Punishable up to seven years. Then federally, he is now facing another four charges for murder through the use of a firearm, strike stalking resulting in death and the use and possession of a firearm in relation to a violent crime, and interstate transportation of firearms and ammunition with intent to commit a felony. Luigi's top charges in the federal courts is punishable by the death penalty. I tried death penalty cases throughout my career. If there was ever a death case, this is one. This guy's charged with a violent crime and we're going to seek the death penalty whenever possible. There. The federal government is seeking capital punishment against Luigi mangione. I will say that these charges are probably the more controversial parts of his case that's pending. A lot of people take issue with the terrorism charges in particular. People can sit and argue with each other all day long until the sun goes down about whether or not his alleged crime, if has been committed by Luigi can be justified by the abysmal state of health care in the United States. That's just debate. I don't really think you can convince one person or the other if one person is so firm on it doesn't matter. Breaking the law is breaking the law, and that will never be okay. I don't think that there is a way to even get them to see another perspective or vice versa. I just don't think it's possible. But I will say that across the board, people do have a problem with the fact that he has been charged with terrorism in New York state court. I think the most perplexing part of this is most. Most school shooters do not even face terrorism charges or even capital punishment. The death penalty. Some people will argue it's a jurisdictional thing, But a lot of people say, no, it's not. It's again, very subjective. And yet Luigi mangione is going up against three different court systems, three different sets of prosecutors, three different jurisdictions, and his defense team, all of whom we will dive deeper into once the trial begins. But we do have some familiar faces. His main lead attorneys on his cases in New York state and federal court are the agnifolos, Karen agnifolo and her husband, Mark agnifolo, who also happened to be Sean combs lead defense counsel. They are coming in Swinging in each one of these court cases they are arguing against these simultaneous trials. Side note, double jeopardy is a huge thing in the United States, which is the unlawful prosecution of a person twice for the same offense. There's a lot of legal debate about this. A lot of people in the legal field say technically it's not double jeopardy because he hasn't been prosecuted for a crime. So it's not like he's been tried, convicted, and then we're going to retry him. It's just simultaneously, all of these court cases are actively pending. Karen Agnifolo, the lead defense attorney, she says the prosecutors, quote, they're trying to get two bites at the apple to convict Mr. Mangioni. As a result of unprecedented prosecutorial one upmanship, Mr. Mangione now faces three simultaneous prosecutions in three different jurisdictions, one of which is seeking the death penalty, while another is seeking life imprisonment, all for one set of facts. She has continued to call out police who, quote, methodically and purposefully trample on Luigi Mangione's constitutional rights. And there has just been so much argument about whether the terrorism charges are warranted, whether capital punishment is warranted, whether or not it's double jeopardy to have all three cases pending at the same time. Which also means it's much harder for his legal defense team to focus down on one case specifically. It's a lot of legal loopholes that they have to jump through nonstop. We're going to be attending Luigi Mangione's New York State hearing September 16 in New York City. This hearing is important for a variety of different reasons. There are a few things that are going to be discussed during this hearing that's going to be important, such as the terrorism charges. There is HIPAA violations that have been alleged where prosecutors have allegedly done some shady try and get some medical records that they were not supposed to be privy to. So all of that's going to be covered in the hearing, hopefully. And this video is also going to be different in the sense of a lot of people have been asking for vlogs. I know some of you guys are probably new to Rotten Mango, but we used to vlog like I used to vlog my personal life back then, and I've since kind of stopped because all I do is work on cases and I didn't think that would be very riveting. But at the same time, people have been asking for a lot of the behind the scenes footage or information on how we work on our episodes. So this is kind of a combination of both. It's going to be a completely different video format than a regular Rotten Mango episode. So instead of just attending the hearing and then coming back to tell you about it, which is similar to how we've covered, like, the Sean Combs case, even during that, a lot of you guys have been asking, show us more about what's happening in real time at the courthouse as it's occurring. And so that is kind of what we're trying to do here. It's definitely a newer type of video, and we're. We just want to show you what happens more behind the scenes. Hopefully it's insightful. If not, just let me know. But I do think that for this case, it could be very important because it seems like a lot of people that are actively covering the case that are, I mean, I think leagues ahead of my expertise or even just there are people that are actively trying to talk about all of the key elements in this case. A lot of them have been getting censored. A lot of maybe the behind the scenes of, like, how people are digging into this case has been. It's just been getting weird. So I'm going to take you guys to New York, and we're going to go to the hearing together. People have problems with. Well, like, the first problem that people have is that he's being charged in Pennsylvania, New York, and then the federal case, sdny, and it's technically all for the murder of Brian Thompson. And so people are saying, like, for a person killing another person, allegedly, you just don't really have cases where it's tried in three different jurisdictions. I mean, technically you can legally, it is allowed, but it just doesn't happen. So, like, that's the first thing. And New York State, the state case, wants to go before the federal case. And then they're literally all fighting for Luigi. The state, they want to try their case before the feds, and they're adamant on it. And Luigi's defense is like, well, you can't, because we're literally trying to fight a capital case, like capital punishment. Like, they want the freaking death penalty. That's. That's the most important thing right now.
- [10:06]
Rotten Mango Team Member/Co-host
Wait, can you explain the three charges real quick?
- [10:08]
Rotten Mango Host
Yes.
- [10:09]
Rotten Mango Team Member/Co-host
Okay, so three states.
- [10:10]
Rotten Mango Host
He's got. That's where he was apprehended is in the McDonald's and Altoona, Pennsylvania, with the Altoona police. Those are. It's like forgery. His fake license. Remember he had a fake license. The weapons. It's like all these little. I don't want to say small, but they're definitely smaller charges in Pennsylvania.
- [10:29]
Rotten Mango Team Member/Co-host
How long is he looking at there? Do we know, like, based on the charges?
- [10:33]
Rotten Mango Host
I mean, I don't think it really matters.
- [10:34]
Rotten Mango Team Member/Co-host
Oh, that's true.
- [10:35]
Rotten Mango Host
These are like, you know, the kind of, like the smaller charges. Then he gets extradited. Well, he doesn't get extradited. He weighs extradition. He goes to New York. So New York State, nypd, they do the perp walk. Nypd, they charge him with murder. And they're like, okay. And also terrorism. So they have the New York State case, which is the hearing that we're going to tomorrow. And then after that, the feds indict him. So now he's got the Pennsylvania case. New York State case, which are more serious charges. You've got murder, terrorism. You've got, like, all the weapons charges. And then the federal case, murder. That's capital punishment. That's what they're seeking, is the death penalty. So this is where it gets really crazy. They're all fighting for him right now. New York State, they want to try their case first. Karen Agnifolo and the whole defense team, they're like, no, you can't, because the Feds are literally trying to kill my clients. So, no, that should be the most important thing. The Fed's case has to go first. And the state is like, no. And then Pennsylvania is like, hello, don't forget about us. We need Luigi for a hearing in November. So Luigi's attorney, Thomas Dickey, he is only representing him in the Pennsylvania case. They're like, no, Luigi's not going to show up on Zoom. He's not going to do a video conference, because we're not doing this with you guys. Pennsylvania is like, well, you better. You better. And his attorney is like, no, you can't make us uni. If you want Luigi, you got to get him in person. So the Pennsylvania DA is emailing J. Clayton of the sdny, the Feds. And the Feds are like, respectfully and unrespectfully and disrespectfully. Fuck off. They're like, no, you're not getting Luigi.
- [12:18]
Rotten Mango Team Member/Co-host
What do you mean?
- [12:19]
Rotten Mango Host
Oh, let me get the email. Pennsylvania just wants him for a hearing.
- [12:25]
Rotten Mango Team Member/Co-host
They won't take a zoom.
- [12:27]
Rotten Mango Host
Luigi's team does not want to take a zoom. And I totally get why they don't want to.
- [12:31]
Rotten Mango Team Member/Co-host
Luigi's team just want them to hold off.
- [12:33]
Rotten Mango Host
No, Luigi's team is saying, like, we have three different jurisdictions in a pissing contest for our client. And, like, they're literally playing with our client's life. Just so that they can say what? That they're, you know.
- [12:46]
Rotten Mango Team Member/Co-host
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [12:47]
Rotten Mango Host
So they're saying, if you want him, come get him. And they're all just, like, fighting for Luigi. But this email is actually insane. Let me find this email. Dear Mr. Weeks, which is the Blair County DA in Pennsylvania, as we discussed, the United States Attorney's Office for the Southern District of New York respectfully declines to authorize the physical return of defendant Luigi Mangione to your jurisdiction while the federal criminal charges in U.S. v. Mangione are pending. The United States intends to keep custody of the defendant until the conclusion of the federal prosecution, including sentencing accordingly. Our office will instruct the U.S. marshals because Pennsylvania was like, put in an order. Put in an order to the US Marshals that we need him for the hearing. We're going to transport him back to Pennsylvania for the hearing, take care of him, and then bring him back to you. But now they're saying, accordingly, our office will instruct the U.S. marshals not to honor any writ seeking to take custody of the defendants to appear in your jurisdiction. Yeah, basically saying disrespectfully. No.
- [13:48]
Rotten Mango Team Member/Co-host
Wow.
- [13:49]
Rotten Mango Host
The feds are like, we are not releasing him until after sentencing, which could literally be death. Yes. And it's crazy because the federal cases, it's like a whole other thing. They're trying to push the trial for mid to late 2026. Luigi's defense is saying, hey, most capital punishment cases, they don't even start, like, the commencement of a trial for, like, 48 months. This is, like, way too fast. This is crazy. We don't have time to prepare for something like this. And then on top of that, there are so many problems. So that's just the federal case that's the problem. Oh, there's other problems with the federal case. Who am I kidding? So in the federal case, they were monitoring his calls. At the mdc, there's two different phone lines that you can use that inmates can use. So the first phone line is like an attorney phone line. They cannot record those phone conversations. It's literally just attorney attorneys with the inmates. It's protected. Then you have the second, which is a regular phone line. I think inmates get, like, a certain number of minutes. They can call their friends, they can call their family. But a lot of inmates actually end up calling their attorneys through that line. I don't know. I feel like there's gotta be a reason for it, whether it's easier, whether it's quicker to access your attorney, whether it's just Like a less friction way. But it seems like lots of inmates talk to their attorneys there. Luigi is on a phone call with Karen Agnipholo, his lead attorney, and that is recorded. And one of the paralegals at the prosecution team, one of the prosecutors paralegals, listened to a portion of it before they realized it was Karen Agniflo. But that's what they're saying. That's what they're saying in quotes, right? Yeah. And so they're saying, like, it's a mistake. And then they're also saying it's like, kind of Yalls fault because why wasn't he using the attorney phone line? And like, in the beginning of each phone call from this side, it tells you, like, all calls are gonna be recorded. So, like, technically it's Yalls fault. So that was like the whole mishap with the federal thing. Well, there's other mishaps too. And it gets very political. It's the fact that it was. Luigi's defense team is saying, this has become so. So political in the sense that it's not even really. It's not even really the justice system anymore is kind of what they're saying in their motions is the Attorney General, Pam Bondi, who was appointed by Trump. She was the one that came out and said, we are going to seek the death penalty for Luigi Mangione. And she also did not give him any sort of presumption of innocence. Never said. Allegedly. Never said, we're going to get to the bottom of, like, why he did this, if he did this. It was nothing like that. The wording was very strong. It was incredibly passionate towards his assumption of guilt, which is not how the justice system works. She makes that statement, and then two weeks later, they're seeking capital punishment. Luigi's defense team is saying, like, how can we get a proper jury in here when even the Attorney General of the United States is not even giving our client the presumption of innocence until proven guilty. So that's a whole issue with the federal case, then the New York State case, that the hearing that we're going to tomorrow, there's so many problems there. And I think that this is going to be probably the biggest problem that's going to be covered tomorrow is what I'm thinking. But is the DA's office, Manhattan DA's office, they do a subpoena to Aetna Healthcare. They're like, hey, Edna, Luigi was a client of yours. We need his member ID number and we're gonna need the time period that he was under your care, like under your. I don't know if it's like insurance or whatever. Under your care. They're like, we need it by May 23, 2025, and you need to give it to us by May 23, 2025, which is like a court proceeding date. Otherwise you're going to be held in contempt of court. Yeah. Criminal contempt of court. Aetna. Uh huh. And you might be fined up to like $100,000. Also, like, you can just mail it or deliver it. Also, here's the contact information. And they give the DA's office. So they're saying, there's so many problems with that. The defense is saying, first of all, they bypass the court. Anytime that you're supposed to get these types of records, they actually are supposed to send it to the court, not to the DA's office. Mm. But they're like, hey, just contact the DA's office if you have questions. So they're just bypassing the court, going straight to the DA's office. Aetna is like, okay, here are the records. They give the records. What did the prosecutors ask for? Member ID and time period. Right. They get back 120 pages.
- [18:28]
Rotten Mango Team Member/Co-host
Mm.
- [18:28]
Rotten Mango Host
That sounds like a lot more than member ID and time period. Right. However, the DA's office in Manhattan is like, let's just like take a look. Let's take a look. It's privileged medical documents. It's literally HIPAA violation after HIPAA violation is what the defense is arguing. This is like statements Luigi Mangioni has personally made to his doctors. It's medical diagnosis. All in this 120 page document. We're at the very top of the first page of every freaking file. The first page of every file reads requests for protected health information. And so they're saying, why do you guys go through that? Okay, now the prosecutors, they realize this, they've already opened it up. One of the prosecutors has opened it up, scroll through it. And then they're saying, oh, we just realized we're not supposed to be seeing this right now because, like, technically this is it. But even if there's a criminal case pending, you cannot just, you have to get an order from the judge that's like, yeah, you can get the medical records or you have to get consent from Luigi Mangione or whoever the defendant may be, which neither of those things has happened. So this is like, you cannot access these files. Now the prosecution come out and they say, actually this was Aetna's erroneously sent files. We asked member ID and the Time period. They sent us privileged information. Aetna is like, no, no, no, no. Aetna tells cnf, no, no, no, no, no. We gave what we were asked for. That's all we're saying. They're like, that's it. That's all we're saying. We gave what we were asked for. And then the prosecutors are also saying, hey, so Aetna fucked up. And then guess who fucked up again? Luigi's defense team. Because they emailed us back the files. So, like, they resent the prosecutors, the files. They were like, hey, I don't know. They're just accusing them of resending them, the files. Now Luigi's defense has now put in another response. This was in August, so like a month ago. Right? And they're saying, first of all, you're so nonsensical. I mean, I will say that this letter is pretty scathing. They're like, you, you guys are so nonsensical. We responded to your email and you fucking had the files attached.
- [20:42]
Rotten Mango Team Member/Co-host
Oh, they just hit reply.
- [20:44]
Rotten Mango Host
We hit reply to be like, what are you doing? Yeah, why do you have this? We hit reply to be like, hello? They're like, what do you mean we have compounded the effect? Or like the erroneous errors. Because that's basically what they said in the prosecutor's response. So Luigi's defense is like, hello. And then they're also saying, but you know what's even crazier? First of all, let's. They were really crazy in this email or this document. They're like, first of all, use common sense. You asked for his member ID and the term, you get 120 pages back, you don't even think about fucking HIPAA. That's what they're saying. And then the second thing that they're saying is it's actually crazy because nothing was scheduled for May 23, 2025. So that subpoena that they made to Aetna, they're like, we need this for this court date, May 23, 2025. The defense is like, nothing was scheduled that day. So you made up a date to compel them to give you this information by said date with that date, there was nothing on that date. That's all.
- [21:56]
Rotten Mango Team Member/Co-host
So they lied.
- [21:58]
Rotten Mango Host
That's insane. Yeah. So I think the argument is going to be that, like, technically, I guess they just needed a date, like a deadline. But the defense is arguing, like state code says that when you give a date for a subpoena, it's a designated, like, there is usually a court hearing or like, something is happening on that date that they need those records. Like, you don't just, like, subpoena someone and you just say, you know what? Let me just say two weeks from now. So that has been the main. I mean, there are other arguments, like the fact that this is kind of. This argument is going on in Pennsylvania, and it's going on simultaneously across all of the different cases. But he was not read his Miranda rights immediately when they are arguing that it's seemed like he was pretty much detained. From the minute that the Altoona Police Department stepped into the McDonald's, they had, like, seven to eight different officers blocking his exit. Meanwhile, they're telling him he's free to go. They also searched his belongings without having the proper search warrant. Now, the Altoona Police Department, they are arguing and. Well, this is interesting body cam footage. We don't have the body cam footage, but obviously the defense has it because it's in disposal discovery. And they were saying in another motion that was filed that the body cam footage depicts Altoona Police Department going through his backpack. And they're saying that they did not have, like, the proper search warrant for this. Like, this is protected in his Fourth amendment rights. Like, you can't just search people's stuff. And at the point they point out that the police officer who's going through his belongings notices, and it seems like they're hinting at. Like, okay, the vibe that they're hinting at is she's going through his backpack, and it's like, fuck, I shouldn't be going through his backpack.
- [23:44]
Rotten Mango Team Member/Co-host
Hmm.
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Rotten Mango Host
So then she says, I just got to make sure there's not a bomb in here. Oh. She says something along those lines.
- [23:51]
Healthcare Activist/Protester
Wow.
- [23:52]
Rotten Mango Host
And the defense team is saying, you knew what you were doing when you said that, because if you genuinely thought that there was a bomb, you would have vacated the premises. The civilians. Like, you would have secured everything. You would have called a. A bomb squad. Like, they're saying, we already felt that it was not a proper search. But the fact that you even said that makes it even more sus. Okay, that's, like, obviously not the legal way of saying it, but I'm just, like, informing you. And then there's problems with the terrorism charge. Like, lots of back and forth with the terrorism charge, unless it's, like, jury and all things.
- [24:31]
Rotten Mango Team Member/Co-host
You want to explain what jury nullification means?
- [24:33]
Rotten Mango Host
Yeah, jury nullification, to put it simply, because I do feel like it's a very sensitive topic that is heavily monitored these days. But jury nullification is when the jury gets together and to put it simply and casually, they say, hey, you know, I know your brother knows he did the damn thing and it's a crime. But. But like we refuse to Reddit says this is one of the most controversial and beautiful areas of criminal law. I can't do your question justice with the response. Generally, you can't talk about it. What? Oh, yeah, I think, okay, you can't talk about it. As in, I don't think it's ever included in any of the court's orders when they talk to the jury. Yes. So that's why a lot of people in New York are getting like, jury nullification, educate yourself on jury nullification billboards without even putting Luigi's name on there. Because they just want anyone in this jurisdiction to understand jury nullification and to see it as an option. Because when you get to the courtroom, they're not going to say at the very end, here are the jury instructions, here are your options. Oh, by the way, did you know about jury nullification? It's just part probably of the legal code. So. And then another problem is with the Fed case, since we're talking about jury nullification, is that Pam Bondi, the Attorney General, was appointed by Trump. Jay Clayton, the attorney for the scny, he was also elected by Trump, if I'm not mistaken. So it just seems like there's a lot of political connections. And then if you know anything about the Agniphillo family, they're very politically active as well. To be obviously on the very opposite side of Trump. Karen Agnifolo does segments on Midas Touch. It's a network, a political political network, very famously opposing Trump. So there's lots of, like, there's so many layers stuff going on in this one, but there is. Oh, I gotta find the part with the body cam. Oh, okay. And then also the terrorism charges, the way that the prosecutors are saying it's terrorism, the defense is saying, strange, they're saying that one of the basis of the terrorism charge is the prosecutors are arguing that it happened in the middle of Manhattan, midtown Manhattan. If you look from the CCTV footage, there is a woman merely a few feet away from where Brian Thompson was standing. And so it's grave risk to the human population, essentially. But what the defense is saying that then any murder that happens on any street of Manhattan should be a terrorism charge, but it's not. So why this one? And they're also saying that for the Brian Thompson case, because they're saying that Brian Thompson, having him be killed in Broad daylight is to incite violence for his own ideological views and to try to get society and an industry to behave in a way, certain. Certain way through the threats of violence, which is terrorism. Karen Agniflo is just saying, like, when did he ever say that? So first of all, that manifesto that everyone's calling a manifesto, Luigi's defense team is saying the police are the ones that called it a manifesto. It's not titled manifesto. Luigi didn't say, this is my manifesto. And, like, technically, there is a definition for manifesto, and it might fit that definite, like, Webster's definition for it. But she's saying when he was arrested, he was not inciting violence. By you guys releasing his manifesto, it instilled fear in people. Like, you guys are the one technically making people have big emotional reactions.
- [28:18]
Rotten Mango Team Member/Co-host
You guys should be charged.
- [28:20]
Rotten Mango Host
Yeah, like, more or less. That's what she's saying. Right. Okay. So there was a journalist who released it personally. Right. On a block. Substack. I think it was a substack. And it was. Yeah, Ken. But it was unconfirmed. And so a lot of people were saying, well, we don't really know if these are his writings. And it was just kind of up in the air. The police are like, yeah, it's his writings. Here's his manifesto. We're gonna count beans at a bean conference. Like, all of that jazz. And so Karen Agnipolo is saying, like, you guys are the one that are publicly releasing these things, and you guys are the one causing the greater society to have a reaction. It's not my client that's doing it. It's you guys that are doing it.
- [29:02]
Rotten Mango Team Member/Co-host
Yeah.
- [29:02]
Rotten Mango Host
And also, she's saying, you shouldn't have even been searching his backpack. So this is the backpack part, which I thought was very interesting. Oh, there's another very interesting part. I don't know who's. I mean, it's. It's Karen writing these. Listen, not to compare, but I was. You know, we were reading so many different court documents and letters from attorneys for the Sean Combs case, and every time they would write a letter, it was just like, what? That's a crazy letter. These. Like, it's so well written. Not even just well written. Like, the amount of passion that they have, like, the way that they're coming out swinging at the press. Prosecutors is very intense.
- [29:44]
Rotten Mango Team Member/Co-host
Really?
- [29:45]
Rotten Mango Host
The. Jay Clayton was recused from Luigi Mangione's case. Why?
- [29:51]
Rotten Mango Team Member/Co-host
Why was he.
- [29:52]
Rotten Mango Host
He is the attorney general or he's the attorney. U.S. attorney for SGNY. Do you remember? For Sean Combs. It was all of the women's names for the prosecution, and then always at the bottom, J. Clayton. J. Clayton? Yeah. Like who? Where is he? Where is this man? Never saw him a day in that courtroom. Yeah, because they always have to sign with, like, the DA of the area or like, the US Attorney of that area. Oh, like, you know, all the ones doing, like, Marine Comey, who is now suing. Yeah, she's suing because she.
- [30:26]
Rotten Mango Team Member/Co-host
Okay, you want to give people some.
- [30:27]
Rotten Mango Host
Yes. An update that I was genuinely perplexed about. Maureen Comey was let go from the sdny, and you guys know that. Okay. Maureen Comey was, like, the lead prosecutor for the Sean Combs case for sdny, for the Fed case. And she was. Listen, like, her dad is James Comey, former FBI director, notorious enemy of Trump. I will say, I don't care what you say about her dad. Maureen Comey. Seeing her in action, like, there was nothing like it. She is so intelligent. She is so quick on her feed. I know people are, like, dogging on her online because Sean Combs did not get the sentencing or the verdict that people wanted, or mainly the verdict that people wanted. But she is just. I don't know, she's whip smart. She's so intelligent. And she was let go from sdny, and apparently, according to her lawsuit, she didn't give her a reason. She said Jay Clayton did not give her a reason and basically told her, it's from Washington, it's out of my hands. And so she's suing them for back pay, legal fees. And she said, I want my fucking job back too.
- [31:35]
Rotten Mango Team Member/Co-host
But Jay. But now Jay is gone.
- [31:38]
Rotten Mango Host
Well. Oh, no.
- [31:38]
Rotten Mango Team Member/Co-host
Just recused from the. From the case?
- [31:40]
Rotten Mango Host
Yeah, he's recused from the Luigi case. Wow. Is there a reason why he's recused?
- [31:46]
Rotten Mango Team Member/Co-host
Right?
- [31:47]
Rotten Mango Host
Oh, because of. Is it because of the. I think it's the phone calls.
- [31:51]
Rotten Mango Team Member/Co-host
Really? That's it?
- [31:53]
Rotten Mango Host
If I'm not mistaken. No. Oh, hold on. While on a luxury yacht for a travel assignment, a journalist witnesses a passenger tossed overboard late one night, only to be told that she must have dreamed it. As all the passengers are accounted for, despite not being believed by anyone on board, she continues to look for answers, putting her own life in danger. Still. Starring Keira Knightley and based on the best selling novel by Ruth Ware. Watch the woman in Cabin 10 only on Netflix October 10th. I don't know what it is, but as soon as October hits, I just have to stop myself from turning into a completely different person. Suddenly, I am buying cinnamon flavored everything. I think that I can brew my own apple cider. I just see so many tiktoks of people who can cook everything from scratch. Everything looks so good it makes me want to bake more until I go into the kitchen and I realize that our flour is almost a decade old and has not seen the light of day because it has been shoved into the back of the pantry probably since two Octobers ago. Thankfully, Instacart has your back. Whether you're buying just a few ingredients to complete a recipe or doing your weekly grocery haul and household essentials restock, delivery through Instacart has got your back. I needed just a few ingredients for a failed baking recipe and my shopper was efficient, communicative and delivered right on schedule. Oftentimes you can get your items in as fast as 30 minutes. All I had to do was pick up the phone, select what I wanted in the app and let Instacart take care of the rest. Download the Instacart app and use code Rotten Mango20 to get $20 off your first order of $80 or more. That's code Rotten Mango20 to Get $20 off your first order of$80 or more. Offer valid for a limited time. Excludes restaurants. Additional terms apply. If you're still getting crushed by sky high phone bills every month, there's finally a way out. At Mint Mobile. They've built their entire philosophy around one beautiful word. No. No Locked in contracts that trap you for years. No surprise monthly bills that keep climbing. No buried fees that mysteriously appear on your statement. No bs. With Mint Mobile, you can get wireless plans that start at just $15 a month. Every single plan includes high speed data, unlimited talk and text, all running on America's most expansive 5G network. You can keep using the phone you already love and bring your existing number along with all your contacts. I made the switch from one of the big carriers about three months ago and I honestly wish I had done it sooner. The call quality is crystal clear. The data speeds are just as fast as my previous plan. I mean, I haven't noticed a difference even when traveling ready to say yes to saying no? Make the switch@mintmobile.com rotten that's mintmobile.com rotten upfront payment of $45 required, equivalent to $15 a month limited time new customer offer for first three months only speed speed may slow above 35 gigabytes on unlimited plan taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details. I think it's because we read so many court documents for all these cases and I am by no means. I know nothing about law, but just reading as like someone who's reading court documents for these cases, just when certain people just know how to write one, they just. This is about the terrorism charge. And Karen Agniphalo is arguing that he's not inciting violence. He's not trying to change an industry. In fact, Mr. Mangioni never stated anything publicly, released anything publicly, or expressed anything online to suggest that this was his intention. Law enforcement, prosecutors, and the mayor of New York City are solely responsible for the very fear they are now attempting to attribute to Mr. Mangione. This is talking about how they're trying to attribute the NFL headquarters incident to Luigi. Mr. Mangioni is no more responsible for the actions of Mr. Tamura or any other alleged killer whose actions followed his arrest than the president is responsible for the alleged mishandling of classified documents by those who served with him before him or after him. My gosh. Wait, India Agnipolo's daughter is a paralegal as well. Well, so it could be her writing. It could be. So there is more about the terrorism charges. Okay, so the defense is just saying that the government, for the terrorism charges, they have to say these are the elements that require for it to be terrorism, Right? Yeah. And so the first one was the aggravating factors are substantial planning and premeditation, because they're saying that he stalks Brian Thompson for weeks and months leading up to the murder. But I feel like that could be apply to a lot of different cases, but what do I know? And then also grave risk of death to additional persons because there was a woman nearby. It was in the middle of Manhattan.
- [36:38]
Rotten Mango Team Member/Co-host
That's a weird one.
- [36:39]
Rotten Mango Host
Yeah. And then three non statutory aggravating factors, such as victim impact, selection of sight for an act of violence. The prosecutors were citing the fact that he wanted to kill Brian Thompson, allegedly at a bean counting conference. Right. And then future dangerousness. So the defense, they go all out fighting these different aggravating factors. So for one, they're saying that him attempting to evade law enforcement and flee New York City with his ghost gun is future dangerousness. And they say, what relevance does that have to proving future dangerousness? Does the government contend that any alleged murderer who flees the scene of the crime with the alleged murder weapons weapon presents a future danger that warrants imposition of the death penalty? If not, what facts make Mr. Mangini's alleged flight unique such that he presents a future danger so great that he deserves the death penalty? Then the defense just goes in on the Attorney General, Pam Bondi. And I just think, Listen, I think there's so many layers to this case, but the way that they go after Pam Bondi is so fascinating. And I just feel like there's already blood, like, bad blood between them because obviously, like I said, they're just very opposing in terms of political views. But they. They even put in Pam Bondi's Instagram post because she made an Instagram post calling for the death penalty for Luigi Mangioni. And they say that Pam Bondi, the basis that she believes there should be capital punishment is one, her past history as a capital crimes process prosecutor, Two, that if there ever was a death penalty case, this is one and three, that she herself has been threatened because of this case. And four, that a reason for seeking the death penalty is that the victim was a CEO. And five, that Mangioni is guilty and six, that Mangioni committed two statutory aggravating factors and should be executed. They say the stakes could not be higher. The United States government intends to kill Mr. Mangione as a political stunt. The Attorney General compounded this prejudice by appearing on Television on Sunday, April 6, 2025, and stating that she has received death threats for seeking the death penalty. I tried death penalty cases throughout my career. If there was ever a death case, this is one. This guy is charged with hunting down a CEO, a father of two, a married man, hunting him down and executing him. Yeah, I feel like these young people have lost their way. I was receiving death threats for seeking the death penalty on someone who is charged with. With an execution of a CEO. This guy's charged with a violent crime, and we're going to seek the death penalty whenever possible. So they're saying, like, she has not given their client presumption of innocence, and now she's making it worse by saying that I'm getting death threats for saying that we need to seek the death penalty and then ask for Pam Bondi. Saying that the victim was a CEO and that warrants that is one of the factors of why there should be capital punishment. The filing reads, the Attorney General stated during her television appearance that a reason she ordered the death penalty sentence was because the alleged victim was a CEO. Counsel is aware of no provision in the death penalty statute or in the Department of Justice's death penalty protocol that allows for consideration of the social, economic, or professional status of an alleged homicide victim in determining whether to seek the death penalty. The drama. The drama. Right. The prosecutors are arguing this is like the whole thing with the backpack search. The Fourth Amendment rights at the McDonald's, which I do feel like Fourth Amendment rights are just like the first rights that every single attorney has to argue in any sort of criminal case, which is like, you weren't supposed to search any of my belongings. Now, the number one problem is the prosecutors are saying that when the Altoona police arrived, they already had his fake id. So he had already given his fake id. So at that point, technically, like, they're allowed to search his stuff. Right. But this is the defense. The fact that they believed that Mr. Mangione was the person wanted for murder does not change the analysis nor provide the necessary exigency to overcome this fatal police error. First, the shooting happened five days earlier, and the police had no reason to believe that the alleged shooter was still armed. Second, even if the police had reason to believe he may be armed, any exigency disappeared after patrolman Detweiler frisked Mr. Mangione for weapons, moved the bag six feet away, and had armed officers strategically placed between Mr. Mangioni and the backpack. The exigency was certainly removed once Mr. Mangioni was handcuffed and surrounded by officers, which they continue on the next page. They say while Patrolman Wasser claimed that she was searching the backpack to make sure there was no bomb inside, this excuse did not reflect any legitimate exigency. First, nothing about the alleged shooting in New York or law enforcement's interactions with Mr. Mangioni in the McDonald's provided a reasonable basis to believe that there was a bomb in the backpack. Second, the patrol woman did not make this claim until after she had already been searching through the backpack and after she recovered a loaded magazine. Tellingly, she stopped searching the backpack at the McDonald's once she recovered the loaded magazine. If one were legitimately concerned about a bomb, one would have either continued searching right then and there or cleared the McDonald's and have called in and waited for the bomb squad to arrive before searching the bag, neither of which occurred. Certainly one would not have continued searching the bag in a McDonald's filled with officers, employees and customers, or put the bag in their car to transport the potential bomb to the precinct. They're going off. I don't know if any of it's gonna work, but they're saying it all. This is not the first time a prosecutor's office has tried to fit the square peg of murder into the round hole of terrorism. Yeah.
- [42:31]
Rotten Mango Team Member/Co-host
Damn.
- [42:32]
Rotten Mango Host
Oh. This is also interesting, though. The people stated reason for not turning over discovery and for at some unknown future time, seeking a protective order is that Mr. Mangione is somehow responsible for harassment, backlash and death threats to certain people. So they're saying there's no evidence of that. But on December 9, 2024, when he was arrested, among the first words out of Mr. Mangione's mouth was an apology and a concern for the very McDonald's employee who they are saying now is receiving threats. Quoting from their notice, quote, I apologize for the inconvenience of the day, followed by, they aren't going to put the cashier from McDonald's information out there, are they? It wouldn't be good for her. A lot of people will be upset I was arrested. Wow. This is the very opposite of someone who is seeking to terrorize anyone or wishing harm or violence to anyone is what they're saying. Also, like, there was a whole thing because they found notes in his socks.
- [43:30]
Rotten Mango Team Member/Co-host
What exactly happened there?
- [43:33]
Rotten Mango Host
Yeah, the defense. They put notes in the socks. Well, like, there was notes in his socks.
- [43:38]
Rotten Mango Team Member/Co-host
Who put it in there?
- [43:39]
Rotten Mango Host
The note was written by the Fria Luigi Reddit thread, but we don't put it in the socks.
- [43:45]
Rotten Mango Team Member/Co-host
How did they get into his socks?
- [43:47]
Rotten Mango Host
I don't know, but it was like a heart shaped pink letter and it was like a letter of support. I have no idea how it got in their sock. And when was it in his sock? When he was arrested? No, like when he had to change for a court hearing. Someone slipped it into his sock. Yeah. Or like it could have been like an honest mistake.
- [44:04]
Rotten Mango Team Member/Co-host
It's.
- [44:06]
Rotten Mango Host
So this is the part where she's saying, like, the journal that they're calling his manifesto, we have never been provided copies. They had actors playing Luigi on television. It doesn't sound anything like him. Anyway, so they're talking about the HBO thing this week on hbo in a documentary. I see the chief of detectives and the New York City mayor, full hair and makeup done, sitting down and giving an interview for television and talking about the evidence in Luigi's case, Talking about police paperwork that we don't have, talking about forensics that we have not yet received. I guess we have now today. But I didn't. When I was sitting there learning about the case, hearing an actor play Luigi reading from a journal that they say is Luigi's and we have yet to receive it from the prosecution. Yeah. Because the New York City mayor and nypd, they sat down with HBO and she was like, Eric Adams be putting. Going through hair and makeup.
- [45:09]
Rotten Mango Team Member/Co-host
Oh, yes, yes, I've seen that.
- [45:13]
Rotten Mango Host
Yeah.
- [45:14]
Rotten Mango Team Member/Co-host
This guy showed up last time.
- [45:15]
Rotten Mango Host
Yes. They say he's a conservative Activist so I Is this just like the calm before the storm? Because everyone on our team that's there right now at the courthouse at T minus like 12 hours, they're saying it's fine, it's chill.
- [45:31]
Healthcare Activist/Protester
Stop denying people are dying. Stop denying people are dying. Stop denying people are dying. People have to die. Stop denials when they die. How many people have to die? What do we want?
- [45:44]
Rotten Mango Host
Free health.
- [45:45]
Healthcare Activist/Protester
Health care. Where do we want it now? What do we want? Free health care. Where do we want it now?
- [45:52]
Rotten Mango Host
Shut it down.
- [45:53]
Healthcare Activist/Protester
Hey hello. It's one for green is practical. Hey hello. We must fight how care is a human right. Good be queen. We must fight how care is a human right. A people united will never be defeated A people.
- [46:13]
Rotten Mango Host
We are back from the hearing. I will say before going to the hearing we, we spoke with POP nyc, which I encourage you guys to go follow them on Instagram as well as Renegade for Justice. They've been organizing a lot of the protests outside. They're mainly focused on the goals of reforming health care. These are activists who spend really any ounce of free time that they have outside of full time jobs to try and make a change so that you and I can probably live in a better world. And I think right now is a very critical time to join them, support them, see how we can be help. But before even going to the hearing, we spoke with a lot of different people from lots of different organizations who were involved in trying to spread messages and organizing protests. And there have been lots of conversations because it doesn't really take a very astute person to realize that mainstream media coverage on this case has been very interesting. And I thought, I thought maybe I live in a bubble because I don't know if it's. I'm just chronically online and I'm just always on TikTok and I'm like, well, I've seen good coverage about this case. I mean, more often than not mainstream media has been bizarre coverage about the case or there may be focus on the wrong things. But I have seen lots of coverage on the case. I did not realize how hostile it was going to be until we got to the hearing. And I don't even think when I got out of the hearing I could even process the thoughts correctly. So I'm just going to describe to you some of the parts that I've noticed that really stuck out to me. The press line and the public line outside of the courthouse. Unlike previous trial that we've been to, it was divided already into two separate lines. And you could Immediately tell that it was two separate lines. I mean, lots of people on the public side were dressed in organized T shirts. Like, it seems like everybody was on the same page. It was really well organized. On the press side, everybody was dressed more like members of the press would normally dress. And for the hearing, they allowed a good chunk of the press in. The courtroom was much larger than the federal courtrooms that I've seen. So instead of just like, a few rows of press, there were, I think, closer to 10 rows of press.
- [48:12]
Rotten Mango Team Member/Co-host
Oh, wow.
- [48:14]
Rotten Mango Host
And I maybe only spoke to a handful of independent reporters there. Almost everyone in the rows of. I want to say, like, if I had to take a guesstimate and don't hold me to this, I want to say at least eight to nine press pews were just legacy media.
- [48:30]
Rotten Mango Team Member/Co-host
Mm.
- [48:31]
Rotten Mango Host
And they were on the reserve list. So this is in New York State. You get on this reserve list, and most of it is legacy media. And I know this because I was. We stood in line for 48 hours. Well, not we physically, but, like, the Rotten Mango team. Like, we had organized this so, like, people we could interchange, and it was a mess. But we were there for 48 hours before the hearing so that we could secure the first few spots, because those are always, like, the best time to get in and see what's going on. They have a reserve list, so before anybody who waits first come, first serve, they will go through the reserve list. So if a reporter from a legacy media who's on that reserve list shows up five minutes before the hearing, they get to cut the line and they get priority. They have a whole list, and they check. So I'm in the, like, beginning of the line, so every time someone comes up, that list is gone through, and they're like, okay, what media are you with? And it was just all legacy media. I mean, I saw a lot of people that I remember from the last trial and lots of friendly faces, lots of reporters that I really enjoy spending time with and I respect, and they're such kind people and they're compassionate and they're here to do a job. All but also some really insane people. I will say even that reserve list was a little strange. It was a little strange because if you know anything about the Luigi Mangioni case or the People v. Luigi Mangioni case, because he has three different pending trials, there has been a very vocal complaint by people of wanting independent journalists to have access. And I'm not saying I'm an independent journalist. I'm literally just a girl online. So Just people who are not part of legacy media who have to go with certain messages anytime they report on the news or like filter through certain checkpoints. A lot of people wanted independent journalists in there. And for that to have this very long, lengthy reserve list of legacy media that are allowed priority, I thought was very interesting, especially in regards to this specific case. But regardless, lots of press were allowed in, which is always a good sign. Only two rows of public were allowed in. And from the moment that we got to the courthouse the morning to get in, there was a clash between the press and the public. It felt very strange. There was heavy, heavy NYPD presence. There were two cops walking past me and I guess they were trying to understand why the public line was so long. And one of the cops just turns to the other and says, he's a good looking guy. And they just like walk away. So. Which is fair. But that's like the most normal comment of the day. So I'm standing in line with a lot of members of the press and I felt like. I felt confused. So the Rotten Mango team and I were thinking about it and we were like, this is very strange. So most of the press, I think they handled themselves very professionally and they were just like normal people doing their jobs. And they were incredible reporters there, incredible journalists there. And like, we were lucky to be in their presence. But at the same time, there were certain members of the press where it just felt like they showed a lot more grace to the defendant, Sean Combs, than the defendant Luigi Mangioni. And I feel like across the board it should be like the same level most of the time. Right. And maybe it has to do with the fact that Luigi Mangioni is charged with murder and Sean Combs was charged with s trafficking and RICO charges and those he was acquitted of. But at the time when that trial was happening in real time, we did not know that he was going to be acquitted. There was video evidence of him, you know, harming Cassie in the hallways. There was domestic violence that was caught on CCTV camera. And so there were all of these different elements. The Mangioni case, there's all these different elements. But it was interesting to see how people showed a lot more grace and benefit of the doubt and presumption of innocence for Sean Combs than they did for Luigi Mangioni, which I thought was interesting because there's actually a lot more hard, concrete evidence against Sean Combs at the time. I mean, that CCTV video was everywhere of him committing a violent act with his face in full view. Whereas, you know, the Luigi Mangione CCTV outside the Hilton Hotel, some people argue in. You can't really see his face. So that will all be discussed in the trial. That's what people are saying. So I thought it was very interesting that they showed a lot more grace to Sean Combs. And then when they get here for the Luigi case, there was just a lot of crazy words, a lot of crazy comments, just like, being thrown about, which was fascinating. I think one interesting thought that I had was we were talking to organizers of the protest before we even got to the hearing. The way that they are so committed to trying to change different policies in the United States to make sure that everyone has access to health care and quite literally just like, save people's lives. That's all they talk about. That's their message. I don't know how they even stay so resilient amongst everything that's going on. But then the way that they get there and all the mainstream media reporters are like, hey, get the girl that says she's dating AI Luigi and we're just gonna put her on every platform. I will say some media have been better at reporting about the protests and how people don't want capital punishment, how people want to reform health care. But the way, like, the influx of media was like, These people waited 30 hours to see Luigi Mangioni. Aren't they crazy? And I was just thinking it's also crazy because a lot of members of the press wait over 24 hours to get into high profile cases.
- [54:01]
Rotten Mango Team Member/Co-host
Yeah.
- [54:02]
Rotten Mango Host
So how are we different? It just felt weird to say they're fangirls, but we're doing our job. It just was so strange. And yes, a lot of the people in the public line, they did wait 30 hours. And some of them had T shirts that had Luigi's face on them or they had Luigi's pizzeria T shirts. And like, while I do think it's kind of, I don't know, some people might say inappropriate, I just thought that it was more in tune with maybe a younger person's. Like, it just felt very Gen Z humor. A lot of the reporters were just not running with it. They were actively out loud, vocally making fun of the people in public. And then they would walk over and try to interview the people in public line. And then they would walk back and say, I don't know why they don't want to talk to me. And I'm like, oh, I could probably list you, like, five reasons just in the past two minutes of things you've said it was very confusing. And I also thought it just felt very hypocritical. And I was kind of shocked by this. Once we got to the second line, so that's like the main line outside the courthouse. Then we get funneled in. We had to wait in the very cramped hallway. So one side was reserved for the press. Everybody's like, cramped to one side. And then the other side is the very short line for public access. They let in even fewer people from the public side. And I was just standing there and I'm just like, I'm kind of eavesdropping. And I hear the agniphilos. The Luigi's defense team, they walk in. The elevator's kind of in front of us. We can't really see them. They walk into the courtroom, and then we're going to be let into the courtroom later. So it's going to be the prosecutors walk in, the defense team walk in, press walk in, public walk in, and then Luigi will be escorted in. Once the hallways are completely cleared of everyone except for the press pit, the press pit is where there's like a little barricade, rope barricade, and the press cameras are set up. Everybody's live streaming. Like, those are all the shots that you saw. And we actually had someone. We had someone from the Rotten Mango team in the press pit who also took a video. But those are the press pits. Everyone that's not in there gets cleared out of the hallway. Luigi Mangioni gets walked into the courtroom, and then the judge comes in. So that's kind of the order of things. The defense team, they walk out of the elevator bay, and now they're in the hallway walking towards the courtroom, away from us. I mean, you're just waiting in the hallway for like an hour trying to get into the courtroom. Of course, when the defense team walks in, you want to get a good look. And these are high profile defense attorneys. These are people that have been in the public eye. I think it's interesting to even watch them in their element. They're very captivating to watch. And so I'm kind of like looking and I hear a reporter from Legacy Media look over at the girls in public, and it was like, predominantly, I think it was all girls. And she goes, look at them. Look at them craning their necks to get a view. And I was like, I mean, I'm also craning my neck to get a view. Like, that seems like a very normal thing to do in this instance. Like, we have nothing to do, right now we're just waiting to get in the courtroom. And these are a high profile defense attorney. Yeah, I think everyone wants to see them.
- [57:02]
Rotten Mango Team Member/Co-host
Yeah.
- [57:03]
Rotten Mango Host
So it's just very strange. And then there was. I overheard another discussion of people talking about, doesn't it smell like weed? I hear one reporter being like, doesn't it smell like weed? And I remember being like, do I have sinus problems? I don't smell weed. I smell weed outside the courthouse. Because it's the streets of New York City. You smell weed everywhere. But inside the courthouse, I smelt zero weed. And the reporter next to them goes, it reeks of weed. It, like, reeks of marijuana. And they were like, that could be a headline.
- [57:37]
Rotten Mango Team Member/Co-host
That could be a headline. What headline?
- [57:38]
Rotten Mango Host
Yeah, probably Luigi Mangioni's supporters wait 30 hours reek of weed. And I'm just like, again, what is happening right now? Like, the public have been nothing but so chill. And actually they're like, here, yes, to support the defendant. And you can disagree with that all you want, like, totally. You can absolutely, objectively say, that's against my morals. That's everyone's own opinion. Okay. But, like, it. It was weird. It's like, that's not what they're doing. That's not even what's happening. I'm seeing this with my own two eyes. That's not what's happening. I'm confused. I'm sniffing it with my own two nostrils. That's not what's. What's happening at all. And then later, even when we left the courthouse, a lot of the coverage just made it seem like a lot of these people are crazy. I will say maybe mainstream media was a little bit better this time around, which is really good. And maybe hopeful for the trial, but they were showing some people protesting for health care, but a lot of it still was on. Girls waited 30 hours. Girls waited 30 hours. And I was like, I don't know, these girlies look like they have a cause. Like, these girlies look like they're here for admission. And, like, you could disagree, you could agree, but it wasn't. It just did not align with what I witnessed. Yeah, it did not align at all with what I witnessed. Even inside the courthouse, because this is state court, you are allowed to have your electronics as members of the press. So you can bring in your phone. Federal court, you can not even bring in your phone. You can bring in your phone. You can actually work on your laptop. In the press pews, if you're a member of the press and you have Your press badge on. You cannot record, you cannot film. You cannot, like, be on the phone. You actually can't have your phone out. Like, you can have it in your bag. You can only have your laptop out. And I think it's because the laptop, usually the camera is just towards you. Right? And so that's the whole rules. I feel like there were phones going off in the press pews. Meanwhile, the public. There was nothing. They did not. Like, nothing happened. No phones are going off. Everybody was showing the most decorum in a courtroom. And even when the officer first walks in before Luigi walks in, he's like, no outburst. And he's, like, mainly talking to the public side. And I'm like, I don't even think no one wants to have an outburst. Like, they seem like they're. They seem like they're taking it serious than most of the press pews. So I'm like, okay, I don't know, maybe the last one there were outbursts, I don't know. But it just seems like they don't look like they're about to have an outburst. And so they're just, like, on their best behavior. And I thought it was kind of unfair that they get labeled as, like, crazy girls who wait 30 hours for Luigi, and it's like, okay, well, the press also wait, like, 30 hours to get into high profile cases, and, like, they will fight to the death to, like, cut each other in line to get into these high profile cases. So, like, technically, we're all the same people. Like, it's fine. Like, we don't have to make fun of each other. Everyone's just here to either do their job or be here for a reason that maybe you don't understand. But that's fine. Like, you don't have to be so crazy about it. And I will say, like, the public was really guarded with the press. And I totally get it. Like, I totally get why it people.
- [60:49]
Rotten Mango Team Member/Co-host
You say, like, literally nobody wants. Wants to talk to the press openly.
- [60:53]
Rotten Mango Host
Yeah. And we were actually really lucky because we were, like, going in throughout the day, even the day previously, before the hearing and during the night. Like, we had members going in and out of the, like, not the courthouse, but from the line. And we were talking to people and we told them that we were with Rotten Mango. And they seemed a little more open to talk. But, like, I can totally see why a lot of people felt guarded. And it just. And I also noticed what was interesting is a lot of legacy media, they're looking for the people in public that are dressed the craziest. And those are the people that they want to talk to. They don't want to talk to the protesters with very legitimate signs. I thought the focus of every piece was so weird. There was another reporter who was sitting next to me who was working on his article before the hearing started. And it was just talking about how there was one person outside the courthouse. And I think they had a sign. I think I took a picture of it that said something along the lines of, you know, protect Luigi Mangione before protecting parasites. Something to do with the word parasites. And when you have protest signs, they're supposed to be highly emotionally charged. That's kind of the purpose of it. And they were just like really focused on the word parasite in connection with the victim, Brian Thompson. So it seemed like that was their whole piece of how these protesters are calling a murder victim a parasite. And like, I do understand how that can be shocking. Right. But I think it's a small. It's like if you were to look at a giant puzzle and then just only focus on one piece when it's like, I do think that maybe that one piece is not a great piece. We don't know. Right. It's really subjective. But when you look at the whole puzzle, there's like a lot more going on. But it felt like that was the sole focus. So it seems like everybody was hyper on something. And it just felt very strange to witness it firsthand in real time where I was just so confused. A lot of the protesters were also giving out these stickers. They were giving out stickers. They were giving out pamphlets. And I think the stickers are like a thing people do at protests. It's a sticker. Like, enjoy your sticker. If you don't want a sticker, it's not a big deal. But a lot of the reporters are like making a big. A big deal about the fact that they have stickers. And I'm like, do you also know that they have pamphlets that you can also get? So it just seemed like they were focused on one thing and, like, hyper focused on only one thing. It got to the point where I don't even think some members of the press I could even have conversations with about this case. Because it's like, I just feel like it's weird. Like, this is so passionate of like so firmly one when you're technically supposed to go in.
- [63:50]
Rotten Mango Team Member/Co-host
Yeah, you're a reporter.
- [63:52]
Rotten Mango Host
Yeah.
- [63:52]
Rotten Mango Team Member/Co-host
Like you're supposed to reporting what. What's going on.
- [63:54]
Rotten Mango Host
Yeah.
- [63:55]
Rotten Mango Team Member/Co-host
Than having your own little.
- [63:57]
Rotten Mango Host
It's like, I mean, you go in there and like, yeah, I will admit there were, there was a girl dressed up as Luigi and she was hitting the poses. Okay. She had an LED backpack on. She came in early, you know, they were like, she's hitting the poses and it's like, is that the best thing to do? I don't know. I don't know. Right. And it's fine to just see everything happening and then say these are all the things that happened. But it seemed like they were very hyper focused on one very interesting storyline that they kept going with. But regardless, we're inside of the courtroom and it's a big courtroom. I was very nervous because lots of people had lots of things to say about this judge. And just from the transcripts I read about this judge, he seemed like a no business judge. And we were just all waiting for Luigi Mangione to be walked in and it was, it was like an oddly high, tense moment. One of the rotten Mango team members, who we'll call Jay, has a very loving but also very grumpy old man rescue cat named Mandu, which if you guys don't know Korean, it's dumpling. It fits him perfectly because he's definitely a little bit on the pudgier side. Which actually prompted Jay to look for a better balanced cat food and wellness pet food was her answer. I say this with all the love in the world, but for how pudgy Mandu is, he's quite picky. He'll literally go on hunger strikes if Jay tries to change his diet up even a tiny bit. So she needed to find the perfect match for Mandu and wellness cat food. Delivered from real shreds of chicken and fish and wellness appetizing entrees to protein packed culinary crafted recipes. Recipes with wellness signature selects to over 90 mouth watering options in wellness complete health. There's a delicious dish for every feline family member. Wellness pet food transforms your love for your cat into real visible benefits through complete and balanced meals they can taste and crave. Give your cat vet recommended Scientifically proven nutrition with wellness cat food. That's the kind of love you both understand. Wellness pet food Feed well, be well. Have you ever heard a story so unbelievable it just had to be true? Roofman is the jaw dropping new film about Jeffrey Manchester played by Channing Tatum, a man who became infamous for breaking into over 40 McDonald's through the roof, then secretly living inside a Toys R Us for six months. With humor, suspense and heart, Roofman is a cat and mouse story that will keep you hooked until the very end. Don't miss Roofman. Only in theaters October 10th. Let's get real about home surveillance. If a burglar breaks into your house and the alarm goes off, that's not really security. That's just a very expensive notification that you are being actively robbed. But what if your security system could prevent the break in from happening in the first place? Simply safe is home security designed to stop crime before it happens. SimpliSafe's AI powered cameras don't just sit there waiting for someone to smash a window. They're actively watching for suspicious activity. When the system detects a real threat, trained security agents get alerted immediately and can intervene. They'll speak directly to the intruder through the system, let them know they're being recorded, announce that police are already on their way, and even trigger spotlights and sirens if needed. The peace of mind I have after switching to Simplisafe is incredible. It was easy to set up around my home and it's all connected to their app, meaning I can pull up my phone and check in on my house from anywhere, get instant alerts if anything looks suspicious, and know that if something does happen, real people are watching and ready to take action immediately. That's what actual security should look like. Right now. My listeners can save 50% on a SimpliSafe home security system at simplisafe.com rotten. That's simplisafe.com rotten. There's no safe like Simplisafe. And the press pews. All of us were craning our necks to get a view of Luigi Mangione, right? And so everybody's craning their necks because that's what you do. And the doors would open and you actually hear his shackles before you see him. And I think that was a very interesting moment because it's like dead silent in the courtroom and you just hear his shackles. Wow. And then he turns the corner, walks into the courtroom and. And I'm not really sure what I was expecting. I don't really think I was expecting anything, to be honest. I didn't really give it much thought. But I have seen obviously all the videos of him being escorted into courtrooms and like the footage of him in courtrooms. And this time he was dressed in like a beige sand colored prison uniform and he had shackles around. He had the handcuffs that were tied to his waist and you could hear the shackles on his ankles. And when he walked in, I don't know if, if they just used. Because we're all sitting down I don't know if they just picked the shortest court police officers, but he was tall. He was much taller. And I know people are going to ask, and I don't think it has much to do with the defendant's looks or anything, but just because people are going to ask him to answer the questions before they're asked a million times in the comments. He was much taller than I expected. Like, very tall. To the point where I was like, I want to ask Mark Agnifolo how tall he is, because he was like. Even when he was standing next to the attorneys, he was very tall. So I'm like, okay, he's much taller than I expected. But one thing was interesting was. And okay, this was my very beloved researcher who was sitting next to me. And she said afterwards, if I'm gonna be fully honest, she's like. I thought going into it, Luigi has almost become this Persona, like this person, like this figure. And so she thought going in there would be some element of underwhelmingness. Remember, she was like, saying, you know, because you see people talking about him and you see these videos, and you're like, okay, I'm gonna go in, and you're just gonna realize he's just another person. And, like, maybe there's. It's even underwhelming because you people have these big ideas and visions of what people look like in person. Like, a lot of people said, sean Combs is gonna look very aura. He's gonna have this insane aura, like this big, bigger than life personality. And then he just looks kind of like an old man. He looks very intense, but still ultimately kind of like an old man. And so she thought it was going to be like that. But she said that he is very tall. He's. I mean, he is very built. He's very buff. It seems like he got a lot more built than his last court appearance. But he has a very strong energy to him. Like, his posture is impeccable.
- [70:28]
Rotten Mango Team Member/Co-host
I think his posture is, yes.
- [70:31]
Rotten Mango Host
But it's also the way he carried himself. And it was interesting. If anything, I don't think he really looked at any of the pews. If anything. He might have. I don't think, but he might have looked at the public pews, but for the press pews, he was very reserved, did not look. He just looked ahead, went straight, sat down, and there were three police officers surrounding him on the back. So nobody could really even see him throughout the hearing. And this is the hearing where they dropped the terrorism charges. The judge dropped the terrorism charges in New York State. These are the charges, along with the federal prosecutors seeking capital punishment that people had the biggest problem with. Because it's one thing to either agree or disagree with Luigi Mangione. It's another thing to feel like he's not getting fair treatment in the law, because a lot of, like I said, a lot of mass killers don't get terrorism charges. So it didn't make sense. It almost felt like people were prioritizing a couple corporate CEO, and so there was a lot of discourse about that. Those charges got dropped. So ultimately, the most severe case that he is facing in New York state court is second degree murder, which is like 15 to 25 years, but he still has, like, all those weapons charges. And I don't know if. I mean, it's a big win, but he's still facing capital punishment in his federal case. Yeah.
- [71:57]
Rotten Mango Team Member/Co-host
Which is, you know.
- [71:59]
Rotten Mango Host
Yeah.
- [72:00]
Rotten Mango Team Member/Co-host
Everything that he's fighting for. Right.
- [72:01]
Rotten Mango Host
I think the state cases, they're very important, but that federal case is probably the most important. And so the terrorism charges being dropped here is a big win. But I saw some people online made it seem like he's gonna get off. I don't think that's the case. I think he has a very long uphill battle ahead of him, especially with the federal case. But the terrorism charges were dropped. The energy in the courtroom because the press were allowed to have their laptops. It was like a moment of pause, and then just like, everyone's typing away, like, live tweeting everything. And then the public, they're stoic. They are on their best behavior. They're like, they got this on lockdown. They're like, we are not giving you a reason to write an article about us. Okay. Even though you guys already are writing articles about us. We're gonna. No, it was crazy. Like, it was on lockdown. But then my researcher outside, who was recording all of the protests outside, she was texting, and she was like, everyone's cheering. She's like, texting into the group chat, and she's like, everybody's cheering that the terrorism charges are dropped. So it's very different energies inside the courthouse, outside the courtroom. It was just fascinating. And then there were brief conversations about just. Just dismissing the charges. There were brief conversations about the HIPAA violations, but none of that gets resolved. And, like, I know there's this one picture of Luigi Mangione looking like, what the hell is going on? And people are like, what did he hear to make him have that look? I think because we can't see very Clearly, I think it was the HIPAA.
- [73:33]
Rotten Mango Team Member/Co-host
Violation that was not dropped.
- [73:35]
Rotten Mango Host
Yes. Like, that was not even covered and settled. And I also think it's like the prosecutors being like, no, we're not gonna drop the charges. Like, we're gonna go. And then he gets walked out. I did notice something as he's walking out. He did kind of raise his eyebrows at the press pews like once. Like, it was just like one, like one eyebrow raise. And it was just like given, like right about that. But like in like a. It almost felt. Not that I agree. I don't even think that's what he's doing. You know, I misread everything in life. I don't think that's what he's doing, but if that is what he's doing, it felt almost justified because of everything I had sat through and listened to all morning of the way that people were talking about this case and the way people were talking about even the public. I mean, people had way more hate filled things to say about this public section than they did about people who showed up to support Sean Combs. Like fans of Sean Combs. And I thought that was interesting because with the Combs case, everybody saw that CCTV video. The presumption would be if you still show up to support him without having a personal connection, the underlying assumption would be you just really like his music. But with Luigi's case, it's like the presumption would be maybe you're upset about health care in America. Maybe like, it's just like a little bit more complex. But it was the way that they treated the people showing up for Luigi Mangioni as like the most simple minded little girly pups. And I was like, I mean, that could be the case, but also you don't know that's the case. And like, technically your job as a reporter is to either find out if that's the case or do something about it. Like, you can't just like assume that's the case. It was just. It was just weird. It was weird. And that was not the majority of reporters. I think 99.9% of them are incredibly just talented people that I can only aspire to have even an ounce of their abilities.
- [75:36]
Rotten Mango Team Member/Co-host
But, you know, that's weird because, you know, we literally cover cases that people were. They're fans of a killer because they look certain ways.
- [75:45]
Rotten Mango Host
Yeah.
- [75:45]
Rotten Mango Team Member/Co-host
And usually those are still minorities. Like, people do not show up to support someone because they look certain ways.
- [75:53]
Rotten Mango Host
No, like, so this is.
- [75:55]
Rotten Mango Team Member/Co-host
If that's the main message, then we're not getting the real story.
- [75:59]
Rotten Mango Host
Yeah, right. And that was a lot of the main message that people saw, I will say tick tock was, was way better about it. TikTok there was a lot of just like memes that occurred afterwards. There were conversations of why he wasn't wearing court approved clothing like he had been in the previous hearings. Some people have conspiracies that. Not conspiracies, but theories and speculations that his defense attorneys had brought this brown paper bag and they had brought clothes for him. But because he had gotten a lot more built over the course course of the past few months, he was no longer able to fit in the court approved clothing. So that was one theory. Another theory was with everything happening in the US and all of the high profile cases, they were just on extra lockdown and they would not allow him to be in court approved clothing. And then there is another theory that it's because of sock gate, you know, those little heart messages that were in his socks. So it was kind of a mixture of those. It's unclear. They didn't really go over it during the hearing, so I'm not entirely sure. But he was in his prison uniform.
- [77:03]
Rotten Mango Team Member/Co-host
And those uniforms are super viral in Chinese social media now.
- [77:07]
Rotten Mango Host
Yes. So Chinese netizens, they actually. I was actually intrigued because. And I think it has to do with the country. Obviously a lot of the people that support Luigi Mangioni in the United States are supporting Luigi Mangioni because of health care reform, because this affects us on our daily lives and our family members who all live in the United States and, and have health care in the United States. Chinese netizens, they're like, hey, we got our own health care. We don't care about your health care system. We call him Lulu. So that's his nickname in China. And a lot of people say that color of the prison uniform is the color of the season now. And so a lot of designers in China are now incorporating the sand colored uniform to like all of their looks. And there's just like a lot of Internet comments that are doing Internet things. There is a TikTok going around of a reporter talking about the case and all of the fan girls and pop nyc they have these LED trucks that drive around the courthouse during the hearing. Like I would say they change the screens and most of it is talking about health care, how to get informed, how to get involved, how to try to make a difference. And then some of them just have like Luigi's face on there while they're like spreading facts about how to make a difference and how to assist in these protests. And one of them is him kind of side eyeing. And that truck is just driving by the reporter as she's actively talking about him. And people are like, a drive by mug is insane. And again, these are people who do take cases seriously, but at the same time, it's just like Gen Z humor. And I feel like legacy media has not caught on to that because even the Reddit comments, like, look, legacy media would have a heart attack. And all the Reddit comments are like, not a bad angle. There's not a single bad angle of this man, which is crazy. That's what people are saying. I don't know. Okay, There are other people commenting that they need to put taller guards with him because putting all these short guards with him are not doing the prosecutors any favors. People are commenting that, yeah, people are commenting. I miss my husband. Like, there's a lot of interesting comments. Okay. And I think a lot of these people take cases in the United States very seriously. They take healthcare conversations very seriously.
- [79:21]
Rotten Mango Team Member/Co-host
I saw someone in the Chinese platform. There's a shot of him, someone flashlight it. So it's like super dramatic with his shadow casting on the wall. People are like, damn, even his shadow looks good.
- [79:32]
Rotten Mango Host
Yeah, like, people are making jokes. Does that mean that they don't take anything seriously? No, I think it's just like, I.
- [79:41]
Rotten Mango Team Member/Co-host
Mean, it's the Internet.
- [79:42]
Rotten Mango Host
It's the Internet. Like, what can we do about it? There's nothing we can do about it. He's in the courtroom for like 10, 15 minutes and then he is escorted back out. I think there was a moment, from what I saw online of people who were in the public pews, they said that it seemed like he was trying to look at the people in public briefly, but it seemed like the, the court officer pulled on him. And then there was a moment where, like, I don't know, I don't think it looked like it hurt, but they were saying, like, it almost looked like he rolled his eyes, but it was not because he's like rolling his eyes at the public. But it was like there was like a yank and pull situation. I couldn't see from my angle, but that would make a lot of sense because these court officers were genuinely acting like, this is Hannibal Lecter. Ruby, watch out. And I was like, I mean, yes, there are very serious charges on the indictment. But, like, this is crazy energy. This is a lot of energy right now. Like, it was a lot. It was intense. Like, I've never seen that many Court officers on one floor at once. Yeah. And another thing that was very interesting was we had a team member that was in the press pit, so she is trying to take photos in the hallway. So she was taking a photo and video of Luigi walking down the hallway into the courtroom. We were in the courtroom, right? And she was saying one thing that was so fascinating, and she's like, I don't know if it depicts in the videos. I'm sure it does. You know, she's telling us. I'm sure it does. But, you know, defense. You guys saw them walk in, and we're like, yeah. And she's like, you could barely see them. Like, I couldn't even get Karen on camera because she's walking so fast. Like, they're just like, boom, in and out, in and out. I'm like, hold on. Can you walk a little slower? And then Luigi Mangioni, they're just, like, dragging him. Okay, so, like, same thing. It's, like, happening so quick. So quick. And she said, I don't know what the prosecutors are doing, but when they were walking down the hallway, she said it was like. Like, people joke about the Met Gala online. And she was like, I thought it was a joke, but they're, like, shaking hands with every court officer that's, like, guarding the hallway from Hannibal Lecter. They're just, like, the slowest walk. It's like slow motion. Football team headed onto the court field. I don't know. Whatever. And she thought it was the weirdest thing ever. And she was like, I also didn't, like, want to get so much video of them because nobody even knows them and nobody cares. So she was like, it just, like, was so long for what? Like, she was saying it was not normal. So that's why a lot of people are saying, again, yeah, maybe these prosecutors are all fighting to get the first bite at Luigi Mangioni. And again, regardless of if you agree or disagree with what he is accused, used, and has allegedly done, it's. You know, when the justice system is unfair to one person, that one person could be you the next day. That one person could be a loved one the next day. So they're just saying, like, regardless of how you feel, if it's unfair, it's unfair, and that's not how it should work. I will say, even when the prosecutors walked into the courtroom, I was like, why? Why are all y' all here? Okay, so first of all, it's a hearing. It's a hearing, and only two prosecutors were in, like, the bullpen. I Think, okay, maybe two or three. They were in the bullpen and one of them had their phone horizontal before Luigi came in. And I was like, is he watching a live stream right now? I don't know. I don't know. It just kind of was the vibe. It was the vibe. But I don't know. My eyes are not super laser, you know, 40, 40 eyesight. I couldn't see, but it was horizontal, which was weird. Like, are you watching a video right now? What's happening? What video could you possibly be watching right before a hearing that's more pertinent than the hearing, unless it be a livestream. Right. And so I thought that was very interesting because he was just like this. And another thing that was odd is. And I know I keep referencing this trial and it's like my recent experience, obviously, and hopefully as I get more experience, I can reference other trials. But in the federal case, which are usually more high profile cases, like the Sean Combs case, you had all the prosecutors, like, like six of them. And they would get. They all sit in the bullpen. So they're all working on this case. They're like the prosecutors on this case. So there were only two for Luigi's New York State hearing, but a whole row of them filled up on the very first row on the prosecution side. So they're not participating. And I'm sure they're working on this case. Heavy. But it was like, I don't know if all of you guys needed to show up, like, full row deep. Because even for the federal case, there are other prosecutors who are working on the case that are not part of the six. And those prosecutors will show up like, remember how I was saying, they're like two rows ahead of the press pews. And really they only show up on really big days of the trial. And that's the trial you're observing. Yeah. Like, they show up huge witness testimonies. They show up on big cross examination days. Like they're not. Not there most of the time because they're working on the case probably. Right. But a full row, and they walked in like. Like they were on an episode of Suits. And I was like looking at the defense attorneys and I was like, it just was a different energy. Also, I did overhear Karen Agnifolo. Listen, Mark Agnifolo, I know people have thoughts about him, obviously, because he does represent a lot of interesting people, including Keith Ranieri, like, lots of interesting clients. Previously, Karen Agnifolo worked primarily as a prosecutor for a very long time before becoming A defense attorney. She is a very fascinating person. Like, her aura is also crazy. Crazy. Okay. Like I said, Mark has like a teddy bear aura, which he really let his wife do everything on this case. Like, she is lead, lead counsel. And she was standing there and they like to observe the courtroom before Luigi Mangioni comes in. And I guess someone had whispered to her, are you nervous? Because the first thing I can distinctly hear her say is, I'm not nervous. Why would I be? And it was like, it was not like a. Why would I be? Like, it was just. It was just like pure confidence. Like, I have nothing to be concerned about. It was giving. Like, there is nothing for me to be nervous about. Not like me, but like our side of the case to be nervous about, which I thought was very interesting. And so it was just a very different aura from the prosecutors coming in like, like a row and a half deep, doing a very long walk down the hallway.
- [86:14]
Rotten Mango Team Member/Co-host
And that's interesting.
- [86:15]
Rotten Mango Host
Potentially watching the live stream after. And like, as someone who's trying to get on that reserve list, should I be saying this? Probably not, but here we are. So I. It was a crazy, hectic day. And so updates on this case. Terrorism charges have been dropped. There was a lot of hope. And I think the defense attorney are pushing for the state, New York state case to be dropped entirely. Because, I mean, second degree murder charges. It's like, come on, he's facing capital punishment in the federal court. Like, you want to spend all that taxpayer money to be doing all of this right now? And clearly lots of prosecutors are working on this case and there's so many cases in New York. And I think this is where people can be mad collectively. Like, again, you can hate Luigi Mangioni, you can love Luigi Mangion money, who cares? But it's the fact that you're using taxpayer money to go so hard on this case. And there are so many unsolved cases in New York. There's so many families, like, waiting for answers in New York. And you're like, no, let me pour so much more resources on this case that even the federal court is also trying simultaneously. It just feels like, yeah, that's already doing this.
- [87:27]
Rotten Mango Team Member/Co-host
Like, why are we doing this double, triple time?
- [87:29]
Rotten Mango Host
Yeah, it's like. And again, again, on taxpayer money when you can be focused on other cases. Or is it the fact that you don't care and you just want a high profile case under your belt? Because if that's the case, you're not for the people, are you? So that's Been like a huge thing. They just want the case dropped in New York State because they're like, it's not like he's going to go free. Like he's facing capital punishment. Like, come on. Right. I don't think that's going to happen. The prosecutors have already stated at the hearing and later to media, like, they're gonna still pursue second degree murder.
- [88:03]
Rotten Mango Team Member/Co-host
Wow.
- [88:03]
Rotten Mango Host
As well as the weapons charges. And that the next hearing for them will be December 1st. The federal hearing is December 4th and probably sometime December. We're finally hopefully going to figure out which case starts first, which case proceeds first, and where that's going to go from there. I do know that he has a hearing in November in Pennsylvania, which, like I said, there was like that whole argument of can he come in person? The feds are like, absolutely not. It's been a back and forth, but it seems that he will not be attending that hearing. So it seems like right now it's really between New York State and the feds of who goes first. With most people assuming it's going to be the federal case. And that's just what I've been hearing. Even with like the press members, they're just saying it seems like it's going to be the federal case case. So that will be probably. Hopefully there will be some updates in December, but we will just have to see. And that is where we are with this case. I do think that it was very interesting to go and attend the hearing. Definitely. Follow Pop NYC Renegade for Justice I think even as the trial proceeds, it's going to be really important to find a lot of different sources that are maybe not aligned with legacy media just to see and make sure that you're getting thorough and fair coverage of the case. So keep an eye out for that and be safe. I will see you guys in the next one.
- [89:35]
Healthcare Activist/Protester
What do we want? Free Believe me. When do we want it?
- [89:38]
Rotten Mango Host
Now.
- [89:39]
Healthcare Activist/Protester
And if we don't get it Shut it down we don't get it Shut it down Freedom get it shut it down for justice we will fight to protest is a legal right for justice we will fight Due process is a legal right for justice we we must fight how there is a human right Corporate queen We must fight how there is a human right Corporate queen We must fight People have denied self denials but they die how many people have to die Self denials How many people have to die? Free L free health care Free L free health care Free L free health care Health care is a human right the people united will never be defeated. The people united will never be defeated.
- [90:46]
Rotten Mango Host
The people what do we want.
- [91:17]
Healthcare Activist/Protester
It now? We don't get it. Shut it down. We don't get it. Shut it down.
- [91:42]
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Rotten Mango Host
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