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“I was paid thousands to rub baby oil on her” - Witness From Day 2 of Diddy's Trial
01:31:40
“Mr. Combs came out of the room, and I just saw a liquor bottle fly past her and hit the wall. He grabbed her by her hair, and started dragging her by her hair into her bedroom. And I could hear what sound like him slapping her. She was screaming. Then Mr. Combs was basically saying, b*tch, when I tell you to come here, you come now, not later.” “Did you intervene?” “No, I was terrified.” This is Day 2 of Diddy’s trial.
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- [00:00]
Stephanie Hsu
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Unknown
Bada bing, bada boom.
- [01:10]
Stephanie Hsu
There is one person in the courtroom that is probably having a worse day than Sean Combs. But first I have to set the scene. There are no cameras allowed in the federal courtroom. So these are just the things that we've noticed. Don't take it as fact. I feel like recently, the past few days, they, they have been pumping the AC in the courtroom. There are speculations that the jurors are getting very sleepy after lunch. We don't know how true that is. That's like the whispers in the courthouse hallways. We're all just shivering. We're all cold. But I digress. The defendant comes out wearing his old man in church. That could never hurt a fly outfit. Collared shirt, sweater, trousers. He really only gets like five sweaters, five collared shirts, I believe. So he's wearing the same things on repeat. Yeah. And there will just be these moments where Combs, Sean Combs has his reading glasses on and he hasn't been staring. So, like, I feel like as the trial has evolved, everything that Sean Combs has done has also evolved. I don't know if it's because things have gotten a lot more serious day by day or if maybe he's being coached on how to act. And like every day things are different. And maybe every day is a specific vibe that he has to set, but he has his reading glasses on more frequently and he will look back over his shoulder where the press are sitting, but not really at anyone anymore. It doesn't feel like he's actually making eye Contact with many people. I feel like the first few days, his retinas were scanning. The second week after the jury has been seated, after opening statements have been stated, defendant suddenly does not know how to eye contact. He does not even know that such a thing is possible. It's very interesting. He will sometimes glance at whatever is in the room and he will look over the top of his reading glass, and he just looks like a boomer getting mad at their teenage kids during breakfast. Like, that's the feeling. Also, he was seen reading a Bible one day before court was in session. So there is that. And he does seem a bit more energized. Like the whole defense team seems a lot more energized, which is interesting because considering we have witness number two that's gonna take the stand. And then right after that, immediately after that, Cassie's going to be testifying. And things just keep getting weirder for the defense. But they're in high spirits. I will do attorney updates. One of the sketch artists does compliment Mark Agnifolo on his tie. He stops and he just has this full blown conversation with her about the different shades of blue and which shades of blue that they love. And I always think it's so fascinating that everybody is so calm, everybody is so happy and friendly until they're not. I mean, not that anyone would have any reason to be unfriendly with the sketch artist, except maybe if you're like Sean Combs, which side note, random Laura. There are a few sketch artist legends inside this courthouse. And one of the ones that are doing this case, they drew Maxwell, Ghislaine Maxwell. And Maxwell, during the trial, did not like what the sketch artist was drawing. So she starts drawing the sketch artist, who then draws Ghislaine Maxwell drawing her. And it's just like the weirdest thing ever. And inside the courthouse, when you walk in, there's like sketches everywhere. They're framed and they're hung up of some of the big trials. Anyway, also, the defense starts playing musical chairs. They're moving people around. So right next to Diddy, he's in like. And this is so intentional, I believe, because Cassie's gonna start testifying soon. He is in a table full of women. He is suddenly sandwiched by women. So you've got lead attorney Mark Agnifolo, and then you have Ana Estavio. I think I'm saying her name right, but she's gonna be the one that is cross examining Cassie. And then you have Diddy.
- [04:55]
Unknown
Haven't heard about her name.
- [04:58]
Stephanie Hsu
Yeah, she was not as, I guess, in my eyes, as prominent. I'm sure she's a prominent member of the defense team, but just in the courtroom, she hasn't had talked much. Yeah, she hasn't also had such a presence or anything. And then next to her is Diddy. And then next to Diddy on the left is no longer Boys Club, so it's no longer Diddy. And Brian Steele, young thug's former attorney. It is now Tenney Gargos. So she swapped with Anna. And then next to her is Alexandra Shapiro. And then now in front, we've got Xavier Donaldson, Nicole Westmoreland. And then now Brian Steele is up at the front. And then in front of them, there's the row of prosecutors. And then the judge walks in and Judge Arun. I feel like at this point, and again, in like the most professional, sincere way possible, like, he is dad. I feel like all of the attorneys are his kids. And he is almost always disappointed in them is the vibe. Because they're just, like disappointing him left and right to some degree, some more than others. And he just has to make sure that everything is done correctly and accordingly. But also, I love the way that he's always. I mean, he doesn't converse much with the jurors or the witnesses, but his energy is very sincere. Anytime they're in the room and then they leave the room and he's like, disappointed dad again with all the other attorneys. Yeah. So Judge Arun is father at this point. Also, I did notice that Mark Garagos is absent from the courtroom. Mark Garagos is Tenny Garagos, celebrity attorney father. Previously, he and Officer Riz, he's like an officer of the courtroom. He's like the one that.
- [06:32]
Unknown
His name is Riz.
- [06:33]
Stephanie Hsu
No, his last name has the word Riz in it. So now the RM team just calls him Officer Riz. It's not actually his last name, but that's what we call him. So Officer Riz, he controls the courtroom. Okay. The rest of the courtroom, him outside of the judge. And he and Mark Garagos have this thing where I have no idea if they're like an old married couple that you just cannot tell if they're goofing around or if they genuinely hate each other and have some sort of massive life insurance plan hidden somewhere. There will be moments where Mark Garagos, who is allowed his phone inside the courtroom because he's counsel, Officer Riz will snap at him to put his phone away. Or sometimes he'll snap. Snap at him and tell him to sit down when he's standing up. Perhaps like at inappropriate times, he's standing up. There's one time Officer Riz tells him to sit down across the courtroom. And the Combs sons, they think it's like a blast. They're giggle gaggling at it. And now he's gone. So I'm like, oh, is it because he wasn't sitting down? I was confused. I look it up. He's on the Menendez case. So he actually went to California for the Menendez brothers case, which again, that's a whole other thing I can do another deep dive on because they were just re sentenced. So that's going on with Mark Garagos yet?
- [07:46]
Unknown
There is so much going on.
- [07:48]
Stephanie Hsu
Yeah. So there's a lot going on with the attorneys, but it's going to progressively get weirder. So a few disclaimers before we get started. Regarding content warnings, there are themes of essay and dv. Secondly, certain portions and quotes have been shortened and condensed and or combined for brevity. Third, this is a very quick disclaimer. But everything reported on in this episode and throughout the trial is public information. Any descriptions or observations regarding the defendant or anybody else inside the courtroom are personally noted by myself or my two researchers, researchers who are also present. Seeing these things happen in real time with our own eyes. However, just because we see something and feel something does not mean that our experiences and statements are valid reflections of the truth. Our interpretations of these random things that we see in the courtroom are our own interpretations and opinions and they are shared for the purpose of reporting on current events. Like, they obviously have no weight or bearing clearly on the verdict of the trial. But also, none of this should be used as a definitive source on how someone should feel about the defendant, about any of the witnesses, or about any of the attorneys or literally anyone. Because what do we know, right? Sean Combs is also presumed innocent until proven guilty. The burden of proof is the responsibility of the prosecution. So with all of that said, let's get into it now. Super brief recap. We did four deep dive episodes into the Diddy case in 2024 after his arrest. I feel like there's more than eight hours collectively on a ton of the allegations, Internet speculations and the unfolding of the arrest. This is now our third episode in the trial. We covered the first witness that was testifying, which is the former security guard at the Intercontinental Hotel. This is the second witness that is brought up to testify. And I will say a lot of the major headlines right now are like the salacious details that this Guy has said on the stand, and there's a lot of salacious details. Yes, all. But I think. I feel like people have just kind of went over who this man is. It's very interesting. He walks in through the back doors, and we see him walk down the aisle, and immediately he has a very interesting presence. He's also super buff, like, just super muscular. And he's walking in, like, sometimes he'll wear his sunglasses, and then he'll take him off respectfully at the stand. But he has a very strong presence, and everybody online has dubbed him the male escort that testified in this case. Now, he states immediately that he met Cassie around maybe 2012, 2013. He had gotten a call from his boss, and he told him that, quote, he couldn't find any of our black dancers, which was what was requested. So he asked me if I would mind going down to fulfill an order to have a dancer go down to the Gramercy Park Hotel in New York City for a bachelorette party. I told him I would do it. So he works for, like, a. Like a dancer company, right? He's gonna go there, he's gonna put on a show for this bachelorette party. He's gonna get paid $200, and then he's gonna call it a night and go home. That's the plan. Now, side note, he is supposed to be dressed up as a police officer because that was what was requested. But he didn't have one, like a police uniform, so he just went and bought a NYPD T shirt. He shows up to the hotel.
- [11:08]
Unknown
No, it was.
- [11:09]
Stephanie Hsu
Did he know? He does not. So he's explaining the job is. I mean, it sounds relatively simple. He says, quote, I was expecting to do a little striptease, and that was it. Just for a bachelorette party, a group of women, and then leave. So he gets to the hotel room around after midnight. So really late. He gets to the hotel room, knocks on the door. Cassie opens the door. And he does not know that this is Cassie. He just thinks maybe this is the bachelorette. She's wearing a red wig, wearing red lingerie with high heels and dark sunglasses on. Now, he's expecting a bachelorette party. And this feels, I mean, I would assume, like the saddest bachelorette party. I mean, where is everybody? There's nobody in this hotel room. He says, she asked me if I was okay, if it was just going to be us, because I was expecting to see a group of women there, but there was only her standing in the door. She asked me to come into the room. She said it was her birthday and that her husband wanted to do something special for her. And so she asked me if I mind rubbing baby oil on her and giving her a massage and wherever things went from there, if it went, if, you know, based on how comfortable I was. He says he walks into the hotel room where there is a whole living room. It's like a suite. There's velvet couches that open up into this larger space. There's a coffee table. And this coffee table, it's just filled with candles lit up all over the coffee table. I would imagine it feels like a seance or something because it's. The rest of the room, he says, is very dark. There's candles lit up everywhere. There's baby oil, there's Astroglide. But probably the most pertinent part of the room to note, and this is, according to the witness, he sees a man in the back of the room. So he's assuming this is her husband that she was just telling me about. But this man is wearing a white robe with a bandana over his face and a baseball cap. It's like the weirdest attire. I mean, I would imagine it's kind of terrifying. My researcher, very. She has admitted that this is perhaps a little unprofessional. But I give her free will. Okay. She could only picture one thing at this point. She said from the visual that the testimony was giving. It is giving the evil cowboy character from SpongeBob, because we don't really have anything else to go off of. We just know white robe, bandana, baseball cap. So regardless, Cassie is reassuring him. You know, she told me that first off that I didn't have to worry about anything because her husband wasn't gay. I remember her saying that to me, and he wasn't gonna try and touch me or anything. And I told her that's good, because I wasn't with that. And then she told me that she knew that my boss told her that she had to give me $200 upon arrival. And at that point, she gave me a few thousand dollars and said at the end she would tip me before leaving. Which, again, at this point, he doesn't know this is Cassie. He doesn't even really know who Cassie is. Rather, he didn't even know her name at this point. He didn't know who anybody was. He says, I complimented the room, the hotel we were in. And then I asked the guy what he did for a living. And he told me that he was in importing and exporting.
- [14:11]
Unknown
Does he know who diddy is.
- [14:13]
Stephanie Hsu
This is where he finds out. So he's like, I love this hotel room. What do you do for work? He says, importing and exporting. And there was like a slight. I heard a few people giggling, like, slight, like, giggles in the courtroom. Because it's like such a. Such a vague. Like, it's Diddy. He's like, I've been importing and exporting. And he said immediately upon hearing his voice, like, he knew that was Diddy. He knew that was Sean Combs. Really? Yeah. He says immediately his voice is so recognizable. He says, wow. But he states after this brief conversation, he doesn't want to. He doesn't want to be like, no, you're not. You're Sean Combs. So he doesn't say anything. I imagine he and Cassie start rubbing baby oil on each other and then having intimate relations with one another. He's asked by the prosecutor, what was he doing While you and Ms. Ventura were having intimate relations? He was sitting in the corner, self pleasuring. He admits that the whole interaction did not last very long at all. So once they're done, Cassie gives him more money. So he makes like a couple thousand dollars that night. And he says that Sean kept asking if he would like to see him again. Like, do you want to see us again? Do you want to see us again? Or some variation of that. And the prosecution asks, and let me ask you, how did you respond to that? I said, sure. And he told Cassie to take my phone number, and she took my phone number, and that was that. He says he's about ready to leave. He's maybe a few minutes out of that hotel room when Cassie. Well, quote, Cassie texted me asking me if I would mind sending her a picture of my private part. And how did you respond? I gave her a picture of my private part. What was the next communication you had with her? She asked me if I could come back upstairs and see her again. And how did you respond? I went back upstairs to see her again.
- [16:00]
Unknown
Wait, so he just left?
- [16:01]
Stephanie Hsu
Yes.
- [16:02]
Unknown
Send a photo and went right back?
- [16:03]
Stephanie Hsu
Yes.
- [16:04]
Unknown
So he leaves a few minutes.
- [16:05]
Stephanie Hsu
A few minutes later, he sends a picture of his private parts because it was requested. And then he goes back up to the hotel room. He goes straight back up there, where again it's Cassie and it's Sean Combs. And this time he says he ends up staying for a few hours. So what do you remember happening over those few hours? The same thing. It was literally the same exact scene. Basically, we rubbed baby oil on each other. We had intimate relations for Longer this time. And then I was done. I do not recollect whether or not they gave me anything else after that. Money wise, what was Mr. Combs doing while you were having this sexual encounter with Ms. Ventura? He was self pleasuring in the corner. Okay. I feel like the prosecutors really want him to keep saying that. I feel like it's pertinent to this case, but also just the constant, very matter of fact tone of he was self pleasuring in the corner watching us is a very interesting thing to just hear out loud over and over again in a courtroom. The second time he leaves for real. And he says later, his boss looked up who Cassie was for him and that's how he found out who she was. He already knew that it was Sean Combs in the hotel room. So every time you met with Ms. Ventura and Mr. Combs, what was the purpose of the meeting? To have sex with Cassie. In front of who? In front of Mr. Combs. He would say that whenever he met them, sometimes they would alert him maybe an hour before or a couple days in advance. He would meet them at hotels. Sometimes he would have to tell the hotel employees, I'm here to see black. That was like the code word. And then they would lead him to that room. I guess maybe that's the name that they book under. He's asked, during your sexual encounters with Cassie and Mr. Combs, generally, how were the rooms decorated? Sometimes sheets or like towels on the couch. The curtains were always shut fully. There was always a table in front of the couch, and there was always candles on that table. And also bottles of baby oil or Astroglide. And then there were a few occasions where they would ask me to actually go to the pharmacy and pick those things up, I guess because they didn't have them at their loc. And, yeah, the baby oil conversation is brought back up on the Internet. But also in the courtroom, the prosecutors asked the witness, across all of these encounters, how often did you use baby oil? Every time other than the first time at the Gramercy Park Hotel, who directed you to use the baby oil? Well, are you asking? Okay, I think I understand. So the first time Cassie did, and then I guess we kind of knew what to do after that. But Sean Combs would often tell us, like, y' all need to rub more baby oil on each other. You don't have enough on. So what type of things do you remember Mr. Combs saying to you and to Ms. Ventura about the baby oil during these encounters? He would just tell us to put more on. So it Appears this is the point where the prosecutors are trying to show the jurors that Sean Combs is the one facilitating and directing these freak offs across all of these encounters. After the first one, who, if anyone, gave directions about how to engage in sexual activity? Sean Combs did. What are some of the directions you remember Mr. Combs giving to you and Ms. Ventura? He would tell us things like, slow down, you know, y' all stop now. Separate from each other. It's getting too much now. It's getting too hot, y' all. You know, one time he had us try to role play. Like we had just met at an airport. And, yeah, we were not very good at that at all. So I think we just kind of skipped past that one really quickly. Yeah, but mainly it was more like, you know, don't finish yet, don't finish. If you feel like you're going to finish, don't finish yet. Like, things like that.
- [19:29]
Unknown
So Sean never joined in.
- [19:34]
Stephanie Hsu
Later he will explain that it was mainly him and Cassie having intimate relations while Sean Combs is in a corner, self pleasuring. And then once he's done and finishes, Cassie and Sean Combs will disappear into the bedroom for sometimes hours. And he just, like, sits in the living room of the hotel suite for.
- [19:56]
Unknown
Hours after Sean is finished.
- [19:59]
Stephanie Hsu
After he's finished.
- [20:00]
Unknown
Oh, after he is. Yeah, I see, I see.
- [20:02]
Stephanie Hsu
And he doesn't really know what's going on in the bedroom. About how often during these encounters would Mr. Combs tell you to wait to finish? I mean, it was often, but I think he started really directing us from, like, the second time on. So the first encounter, he didn't really say much to us, but after that he would tell us to do. You know, after that, he really would just tell us to, like, rub each other and, like, you know, touch each other. And then he would tell her to, you know, blow me, give me oral sex. I mean, yeah, he would often tell me not to finish, don't finish yet. And if you feel like you're gonna finish, stop. So it was more so like where he wanted me to finish. And what do you remember about him? What do you remember him saying about that? He occasionally wanted me to finish on her stomach or, you know, inside and, you know. Yeah. Throughout these encounters, what did you observe Mr. Combs doing? He was always sitting in the corner, self pleasuring. And then occasionally he would tell me to step off and back up because he was gonna get some. And then he would start having intimate relations with her, and I would be sitting off in the corner Watching. Just what did Ms. Ventura and Mr. Combs usually do after you ejaculated on her? They would get up and go inside of wherever the bedroom was inside the hotel room. And generally what happened next? I'd be sitting in that room for hours, just sitting there. And then what do you remember happening? Sometimes they would come out and tell me, okay, you can go. And other times they would come out and ask me if I'm ready to go again. About how long did each of these encounters with Mr. Combs and Ms. Ventura usually last? Could be anywhere from an hour to 10 hours.
- [21:39]
Unknown
10 hours?
- [21:40]
Stephanie Hsu
10 hours. So this is like a huge point for the prosecutors is that these freak offs would lasted multiple days and that for Cassie, for years of her life, it would potentially feel like half of her week is in this horrendous freak off situation. How many times, if any, did you pretend to finish but you actually did not? I think this was our. On our second go around, he told me to make sure that I finish inside of her this time. And I went to go, but I, I just, I couldn't do it. I just, I was in my head or whatever the problem was, but I couldn't finish and so I just pretended to do it and I was. They got up, they went into the room and then Sean Combs came out of the room and he asked me, he said, yo, are you sure you finished? And I said, yeah, I'm positive. And he was like, you sure? And I said yes. And so they went back into the room and yeah, that was that. But yeah, they definitely knew. This show is sponsored by Liquid Ivy. Whatever your summer looks like, there is one essential companion you cannot forget. That is Liquid iv. Summer is not just a season, it is a lifestyle. Living your best summer means keeping your body fueled and hydrated with Liquid IV. With just one stick of Liquid IV, your 16 ounce water bottle transforms into this superhero of hydration. This is not another sports drink either. We're talking about a scientifically crafted hydration solution that delivers a three times the electrolytes of leading competitors. Liquid IV hydro science optimizes a blend of electrolytes, essential vitamins and clinically tested nutrients designed to transform your ordinary water into this powerhouse of nutrition and energy. And of course, Liquid IV is always non gmo, vegan, gluten free, dairy free and soy free. Break the mold and own your ritual. Get ready for summer with extraordinary hydration from Liquid IV. Get 20 off your first order of Liquid IV when you go to LiquidIV.com and use code ROTTEN at checkout checkout that's 20% off your first order with code ROTTENQUIDI.com every parent knows that feeling. Your child asks for homework help on a topic you haven't touched since your own school days. Or perhaps your young learner is racing ahead in the classroom. Materials IXL offers the educational support that they need. IXL is an award winning online learning platform with comprehensive coverage from pre K through high school graduation. IXL is used in 96 of the top 100 school districts in the US. One of my nieces just got accepted into a competitive grade school program. And besides celebrating, the first thing that my sister did was ensure that she was set up with ixl. The curriculum has changed so much from when my sister and I were at school. We were nervous about not being able to help as she progresses, but thankfully IXL has it covered. Make an impact on your child's learning. Get IXL now and Rotten Mango listeners can get an exclusive 20% off IXL membership when they sign up today at ixl.com rotten Visit ixl.com rotten to get the most effective learning program out there at the best price.
- [24:48]
Maureen Comey
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- [25:25]
Stephanie Hsu
This is the part that has been all over the headlines that I have seen is the prosecutors ask what if any bodily fluids other than ejaculate do you remember there being in these rooms? The witness responds, so Cassie was actually the one that asked me to urinate on her. They had just come out of the room and she asked me if I had ever done that before and I said no and she told me to do it. And apparently I was doing it wrong because they both stopped me and told me that I was supposed to let a little out at a time and not go full like take a leak on her. Just yeah, that was just one time that they asked me to do that. What was Mr. Combs doing when you urinated on Ms. Ventura? He was self pleasuring. They Also bring up the alleged recording of Freekoff saying, who, if anyone, recorded your encounters with Ms. Ventura? Sean Combs. About how many times do you remember Mr. Combs recording you and Ms. Ventura during these sexual encounters? Again, I would be estimating but once or twice. And what do you remember Mr. Combs using to record these encounters? I do believe a cell phone and a camcorder device.
- [26:34]
Unknown
So when he was saying all of this, did you see what Diddy was doing in court?
- [26:40]
Stephanie Hsu
Yes. Okay, so this is the very interesting thing. I think I feel like prior to. It really started during opening statements, Diddy just, like, morphed into a marble statue. Everything became so frozen to the point where it just felt very unnatural. Like, I just don't see many people have level of stillness inside of them.
- [27:03]
Unknown
So it's a thing that it feels.
- [27:05]
Stephanie Hsu
Intentional because it doesn't even feel still. It feels rigid. Right. So it feels intentional. But during these two witness testimonies, we did notice something. So my researchers and I were like, okay, are we noticing the same thing? Because it's so interesting. I feel like every time anybody else is talking or the judge is talking, the attorneys are talking, they're arguing, they're going back and forth on things. They're like, submitting applications. He is rigid. He's statuesque. He's frozen. But during the two witness statements, he would have these moments where his body language feels a little bit more like what people remember Diddy being. How's it? So he kind of. Instead of having his back off of the back of the chair and being frozen and rigid and looking like the bestest boy at church every Sunday, he starts leaning back towards the chair. He has his. I wrote this down. Specifically, his right shoulder is down, his left shoulder is up, and his head is kind of cocked to the left. And then there would be some times where during the witness statements, he'll kind of prop his left arm onto the chair. So I can't see that. It looks like either he's putting it on his thigh, or it could be the chair, or it could just be. It's not leaning on the top of his chair. Like, you know, when people drape their arm on the top of the chair, it's very relaxed. It's very casual. It could be perceived as, like, asserting dominance. I don't know. Right. It's not like that at all. It's just. It looks like it's maybe propped up on the chair. So you can kind of. Kind of see his left shoulder propped up. So very minor shift a little bit More relaxed. I also did notice, and this could just be my perception of things. More often than not, I do see him lifting his chin up more when he's looking at the witnesses that are testifying. So it's almost like he's lifting his chin and, like, looking down at them, even though they might be a little more elevated, honestly, than he is. I just see his chin go up more. But I don't know, maybe there's, like a reflection on an iPad that's bothering his eye. It could be anything else. I just noted it down because I thought it was interesting.
- [29:15]
Unknown
No, that helps, because now I feel like I can see that posture.
- [29:19]
Stephanie Hsu
But he's incredibly stoic. He will have a break from this stoicism at the end because he starts doing stuff that I don't even think he realizes he's doing near the end.
- [29:31]
Unknown
Because this.
- [29:32]
Stephanie Hsu
Yes, during cross examination, because I think things get a little bit crazier. But yes, at this point, he's stoic, but his body language has shifted a teeny, tiny bit. Now, there were a lot of things that this witness says that he was very concerned about. The witness states that he did not notice Cassie to be under the influence of drugs, except for one time. And it was pretty alarming. He said, I came to a hotel room, and Sean Combs opened the door. And when I went inside the hotel room, he closed the door behind me. And then he said to me, I don't think this is gonna happen today. And I looked at the couch, and Cassie looked like. To me, she looked like she was completely passed out on the couch, slumped over, and half on the couch, half off the couch. So he said it was very alarming. And there was another time that Sean Combs actually offered him Molly mdma. And he is asked by the prosecutors, what do you remember about the time that you were offered Molly by Mr. Combs? I remember they had a. I really can't tell you who gave me the money, but I'd gotten a couple thousand dollars. I guess after we were. We had intimate relations, I took that Molly and then I became a totally different person. I went out into Times Square and I handed out hundred dollar bills to every single person that I saw in front of me. What. When you say you became a totally different person, how did the Molly make you feel? It made me feel like a jackass that wanted to go into the middle of Times Square and hand out $100 bills to every person that he saw. Can you describe the sensation of taking the Molly for us, please? I felt Sick. Like, physically sick. Like, nauseous. But also I felt euphoric at the same time. But eventually, he says he starts reaching out to Cassie because he's very worried about her. He says at some point after things had happened, I always wanted, you know, to know that she was good. I used to try to get to her to text me to tell me that, you know, she was good. And then when she wouldn't reply, eventually I started sending her more vulgar text messages to see if I could get her, you know, more interested to see me again so that I could actually see her in person and know that she was good. When you say that you sent vulgar text messages, what do you mean? I mean, I can recall sending her at least one message telling her, I mean, that I wanted to. You want me to just say it? If you wouldn't mind giving an example. I wanna fuck you right now. And are those the kind of vulgar text messages you would send her? Not often, but once or twice, yeah. To the best of your recollection, did Cassie ever respond to those vulgar text messages? I don't think so. Okay, but why is he scared and worried for Cassie so much that he's sending these vulgar messages to almost bait her into responding? Like, it's a very interest circumstance to be in. Like, why does he even need to reach out to begin with? Like, clearly something is bothering him. He tells the courtroom that he starts developing ED erectile dysfunction, to which he is asked, when was the first time you experienced that sexual performance issue? After the first time that I saw him hit her. He says he was at Cassie's house, and he's sitting on the couch. Cassie is sitting in front of him on the computer. So there's a. A little desk facing the wall, but her back is facing him. And Sean Combs is in Cassie's bedroom. They had just gotten done having intimate relations. And he says, well, I had intimate relations with her. We finished doing what we were doing, and then they both went into the bedroom. She eventually came out and she got on her computer, and Mr. Combs was in her bedroom. Cassie was on her computer. And I heard him yell out, babe, come here. I heard Mr. Combs yell out to Cassie, babe, come here. Cassie was on her computer, and she said, hold on one second. I have my personal information out on the computer right now. He. Mr. Combs came out of the room, and I just saw a bottle fly past her and hit the wall. It looked like a liquor bottle. And then he. Mr. Combs walks over to her, to Cassie. He grabbed her by the hair and started dragging her by the hair into her bedroom. And he wasn't saying anything. While he was dragging her, she was yelling. Now, side note, the whole time, Sean Combs is just stoic. Again, even during, like, this very lengthy description of what allegedly took place. Like, he's not moving. He's very frozen. What was she saying? She was screaming. And he. Mr. Combs pulled her into the bedroom. And I could hear him. What? I could hear what sounded like him slapping her. What else could you hear from the bedroom? She was screaming. What did you hear her saying? I'm sorry. I'm sorry. And then he. Mr. Combs was basically saying, bitch, when I tell you to come here, you come now, not later. Wow. How did you react to this violence? I was shocked. It came out of nowhere. I was terrified. I didn't know. I didn't know what to do. I didn't know. Did you intervene? No. Why not? Because I knew that the chances that there were four or five bodyguards in another. Objection. Sustained. So this part, like, they have to. They have to keep going with something. I. Without speculating about what might have been going on outside of what you could see and what you could hear, can you explain to the jury why you didn't intervene when you heard Cassie crying and what sounded like smacks? I didn't know what to do. I was shocked. In my mind, it was going through my head that if I try to do something, I might lose my life. Objection. Overruled. And why didn't you call the police and report what you saw? Again, without speculation. I'm not. I'm not speculating. I'm just telling you what was in my mind and what I was feeling at the time. My thoughts were that this was someone with unlimited power. Objection. Overruled. My thoughts was that this was someone with unlimited power. And chances are that even if I did go to the police, that I might still end up losing my life. Prosecutor Comey asks what happened after the beating stopped. They. Sean Combs and Cassie came out of the room. She was. Kelsey was visibly, like, very upset. Did not look like she wanted to continue doing anything. But Mr. Combs asked, Are y' all ready to continue now? And I was. I couldn't do anything after that. He says he tried to act like everything was okay. How do you remember that interaction ending? I remember leaving. I do not remember them handing me money. And I probably wouldn't have taken that anyway. Why did you return to meet with Ms. Ventura and Mr. Combs again after you witnessed that? Violence comments. I've had conversations in between our interactions with Cassie, and I felt like I had started developing at least some kind of friendship with her. I may have been speculating, but, you know, I. It was my way of being able to check on her and know that she was okay. He says that after that he heard Sean Combs screaming at Cassie once more. He says this was a different incident at the Essex House Hotel. He says the hotel room, when you get to the front door, you walk in and there's a whole bedroom, there's coffee table, there's like a bathroom in the foyer. And this layout oddly becomes important at one point. But listen, that's for later. What do you remember happening right before you heard Mr. Combs yell, I think we had sex during this encounter? Attorney Xavier Donaldson, from the defense state's objection that, well, never mind. Withdrawn. The prosecutor continued, and then after you had sex, what do you remember? Sean Combs and Cassie were in the bedroom for a while, and I was in the living room. Out of nowhere, I could hear Cassie yelling, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. And then I could hear again what sounded like she was being slapped or someone being slapped around and slammed around the room. I looked around the corner to where the foyer was, and I saw Mr. Combs walk out of the hotel altogether without clothes on. He might have had a towel on, which I guess some people would say is reminiscent to the Intercontinental Hotel video footage. And then Cassie came running into the living room and she literally jumped into my lap and she was shaking, like, literally like her whole body was shaking. Her whole entire body was shaking like she was terrified. And what did you say to her? I asked her why is she doing this, why she's staying with this guy if he's. Objection. And the judge asks Attorney Donaldson from the defense, what's the grounds for the objection? Hearsay. Overruled. So, Prosecutor Comey. And it's like there's a lot of objections throughout all of this. So I feel like we keep. Like we're trying to figure out what's happening, and then there's objections. And then we keep getting little bits and then there's objections. And so Prosecutor Comey continues. Can you tell us again what you said to Akassi? I asked her why she was staying with this guy if he was hitting her and beating her like this. And I tried to explain to her that she was in real danger if she stayed with him. And she basically tried to convince me that it was okay. It's okay. I'm fine. I'll be okay. And I just kept trying to tell her that you're not okay and you need to get help. What do you remember happening next? She and I were alone, and this was the first time we were alone. And Cassie is not somebody that likes to kiss. Objection. Overruled. So the witness continues. During our interactions, Cassie was not a kisser. But in this instance, she just started making out with me.
- [38:48]
Unknown
Wait, when was this? This is the shivering part.
- [38:51]
Stephanie Hsu
Yeah.
- [38:52]
Unknown
Did he just left a hotel? Okay.
- [38:56]
Stephanie Hsu
And she just started making out with me, and we ended up getting into, you know, into it. But the fact that I was alone with her this time, I had no problem getting physically capable down there. Right. And right when we were actually starting to have intimate relations, I realized that Mr. Combs had reentered the room, and he was sort of of sneaking around the corner and watching us. And once he realized that we could see him, he came into the room and basically was saying, like, yeah, that he liked that. He liked that we were getting along in that way. And what do you remember happening next? I think the second that he came back into the room, I was done again. I couldn't. I couldn't continue. Why didn't you go to the police after this incident? I told you again, I was concerned for my life. By this point, he had taken my ID and taken a picture of it. And I felt threatened by what he said to me. And. And I felt that at the very least, I could try to get her to realize that she needed to leave and maybe try to help her in that way. There's a few other key events in the witness that he talks about in his testimony. The first being that he states there was another time where he went to visit Cassie and Sean Combs, where he says he walks in and there's a man having intimate relations with Cassie already. He says she was actually giving him, like, oral. There was a lot of oral activity going on most of the time. And the prosecutor asked, and what do you remember happening during that particular intimate act? The guy kept on looking at Sean in the face, Sean Combs in the face. And Mr. Combs turned to him and basically told him, look, motherfucker, you better stop looking at me in my face. And the guy got, like, real scared. And he's like, I'm not looking at you. And he's like, better not be fucking looking at me. And Cassie jumped off the couch and, like, ran to the opposite side of the room. And the guy was just saying, like, profusely, I'm not looking at You. I swear I'm not looking at you. Which a lot of netizens thought this was kind of an interesting moment. They thought the psychology was fascinating. And I'm not trying to like, psychoanalyze anybody because I don't think I have the faculties for that. But a lot of people say it's fascinating because he loves to watch. Which would categorize him as what the Internet likes to call, like, you know, but he's someone that you can't even make eye contact with while it's happening. So there's, there's a lot of like, psychological, perhaps ego power and yeah, maybe even some shame involved is what I saw. Some.
- [41:14]
Unknown
Yeah, yeah. He got real triggered when.
- [41:16]
Stephanie Hsu
Yeah.
- [41:17]
Unknown
When someone look at him back while he's in the corner, like.
- [41:21]
Stephanie Hsu
Yeah. Which did kind of send me down a spiral reading those comments, because the days that I've spent staring at this guy, I feel like this is someone who does not shy away from eye contact, especially at least in the beginning. Right. But maybe he just likes eye contact in very specific situations because now there's like no eye contact with, I feel not many people. And after Cassie ran away, what do you remember happening next? The guy told Mr. Combs, I'm not looking at you. Mr. Combs said, okay, all right, let's, let's, we're here to have fun, not do anything else. And then he told Cassie to come back to the couch. And Cassie asked if they were absolutely positive that they're good now, because she was, she seemed like she was scared to go back to the couch. Which side note, the witness does testify, and I think the prosecutors are trying to lay the groundwork or maybe even the evidence. They're asking questions to establish the fact that these freak offs happened for sometimes days at a time is what they argued in even their opening statement, to which the witness talks about how, quote, just times that I would come to the hotel room and there would be like towels on the floor that looked used and bottles of baby oil that were almost finished and Astroglide that was halfway used and it just looked like, you know, it looked like someone had already been there already. He also states that he was only ever paid for intimate relations, that if he went there without having intimate relations because sometimes he couldn't physically perform, he would not get paid. Furthermore, he states that anytime he would get paid, it was around 700 to 5 to $6,000. And though it was mainly Cassie handing him the cash, he states he does remember Sean Combs coming out once and quote, I Remember, he came out of the room once, and he asked me and the other gentleman if we had gotten our bread. However, he does state that he personally never felt like he was being paid to have intimate relations, even though he knows that he only got paid for the times that he. He did have those acts. He says, well, I, for one, was not someone that was getting paid for intimate relations. In my head, I was just excited that I was in this world and, you know, happy to be involved with people with such notoriety. I didn't care if I got paid one way or another. I never asked them for a single dollar. They gave that to me every time that I went to see them. So for me, it was just, you know, this is just something that they do. They have that kind of money, they want to share it with me. I'm fine with that. Which, at this point, Sean Combs does turn to look now the prosecutor. Okay, so the jury are also all facing the left side of the room. So we're in the pews. We're all facing the judge at the front of the room. Okay, Everybody's facing the judge. Sean Combs is facing the judge. The prosecutors are facing the judge. The jury, they're facing the left side. So they're looking at, like, Sean Combs side profile. Everybody's side profile. But there's a podium right next to the jurors, and that is where the prosecutor or the defense attorney will go up and they will examine the witnesses.
- [44:16]
Unknown
I see.
- [44:17]
Stephanie Hsu
So it's. At least from where I'm sitting, it was unclear if he's looking at the prosecutor or if he's looking at the jurors. But at this point, when the witness says that Sean Combs does kind of tilt and do, like, a small nod.
- [44:29]
Unknown
Wait, I'm sorry. What did he say again?
- [44:31]
Stephanie Hsu
He says, I was just happy. Like, they have this money, and they want to share this money with it. So it sounds like a very positive thing, slightly. So far, this is maybe the only thing that could be interpreted as even remotely positive about Sean Combs in this witness's testimony. And he turns towards. I don't know if it's towards the prosecutor. I'm imagining it's for the jury. But he does, like, a small nod. Yeah. Yeah, I guess. Indicating that he, too, feels like he's just sharing the love through money. I don't know. Now the witness says he's scared. He says that Sean Combs took his ID, saying it's just in case, and he's kind of freaking out about it. And There were a lot of parts from this witness's testimony that are really transparent to the point that if it were not in this case, in this situation, in a courtroom setting, it could maybe come off as vulgar, perhaps because it's the truth. It's a lot to hear. Like, people are not sugarcoating the truth in a courtroom. He will testify and state things like, he would tell her to blow me halfway into the direct. Sean Combs daughters. So they're all adults. They just had turned 18 recently, I believe, and they first leave to use the restroom. Once the testimony starts getting into that area of very. A lot of explicit details, they come back after the restroom, and the testimony is still very sexual in nature. So they leave once more, and they don't come back. So they sit out the rest of the testimony. The three daughters, yeah, but the mother and the sons, they stick. And that's also been a huge conversation online. The fact that Sean Combs kids are showing up to support him in court. Typically, netizens say that it's supposed to show that the defendant has a large support group that supports them and believes in their innocence, most likely is what they're showing to the jurors. Like, I believe this person is innocent, and I'm supporting them. However, in this case, netizens think it's telling that the three youngest daughters that are barely adults are in attendance. With netizens feeling like if they were Sean Combs, they would bar their daughters, at the very least, if not all their kids, from the courtroom because they don't want them to experience this level of trauma and, like, hearing these things being said and the allegations and the accusations. So the sentiment here being the girls being there probably traumatizes them and only benefits Sean Combs. Now, to be fair, I do think that the girls have flown back to California. I don't think they're in New York anymore. So they showed up for two days. I don't know if they're gonna come back. I'm assuming they will come back, but at this point, we don't know. Now, they say that he's not trying to be a good father, but he's just trying so hard to appear to be a good father to the jury. That's why he wanted his kids there. Other people also think that it's weird that his elderly mother is just sitting there listening to witnesses testifying about this kind of stuff. But there have been also lots of stories about his mother perhaps maybe having similar interests. I don't know. Those are allegations. Those are what People who personally know the family have been alleging and accusing online. You can find all of that online. I'm not the one alleging this, but one netizen comments. If Diddy's 18 year old daughters are too young to hear of his DV and essay case, then Cassie was too young to have been groomed and trafficked by their father. So there's a lot of very strong opinions out there on the Internet about this. I will say that the family is. Yeah, there's just a lot going on. Every time the family comes in, even when they go in and out for lunch, they all get into this like giant van. Sometimes when they leave for the day, this also happens. There's. I think it's one person. I don't know if it's a different person every time. I don't get a good look at their face, but someone is just on a speaker playing Me and you by Cassie. This is like multiple times I've heard and seen like the family. And then you just hear me and you blasting near the courthouse. And side note, since we're on the topic of the family, I just want to run you through the energy of the family really quick because there's a lot of energy there. So Christian Combs, this is Kim Porter's first child with Sean Combs. Christian Combs, he is, he reminds me a lot of Sean Combs from the very little I know from like being in that courtroom a few days, you know what I mean? But he just like his mannerisms that he does similar. In the first episode I talked about, Diddy would do this thing where he looks back and he like holds people's gazes and then he stopped doing that. But I feel like Christian Combs, he does that. He doesn't do it often but like randomly he just, he has like this. He turns to the side and he will look back and it's a very like intense gaze. I don't think he's specifically looking at anyone. I don't think he even means to. He just has very similar mannerisms. I think he also likes to walk in with his hands in his pockets. He does this thing where his tongue is always flicked to the corner of his mouth. So I do think that Christian Combs has very similar energy to Sean Combs. A lot of the time during witness testimonies he is, I see him putting his arm around his mom, or not his mom, but Sean Combs his mom. So Christian's grandmother and his arm is around her or he's like comforting her somewhat or he's just like, staring off into the abyss or staring at the judge or something. Justin Combs, which is Sean Combs, son with Misa Hilton. I often see him taking notes and also passing notes. And I'm always like, I wonder what that note says. Do I do anything about it? No. But I always wonder. And then Quincy, who is Al B. Sure. And Kim Porter's son. He seems the most locked in, like, he's more observant. I don't see him as often taking notes, but he seems like he's very attentive and, like, paying very close attention to all the things that are happening. Happening. Yeah. So with that, so far, this second witness, I feel like he seems very honest, and that is my opinion and perception. Even when he walks into the courtroom, he takes up a lot of space. I'm not really sure how to explain it because he's not a very tall man. He's kind of on the shorter side, but the way he walks, he's very buff. His shoulders are wide. He gives me similar energy to the security guy, where they just look like they have 100% muscle mass. And all. All of his answers to questions are incredibly direct. It does not feel like he's trying to shy away from telling us the truth, even if it's uncomfortable to me. His cadence, to me, in my opinion, does not indicate someone that's trying to remember what to say or. And, like, most of his pauses feel incredibly natural, like he's just trying to recall certain memories and situations. Also on top of that, I feel like nothing about this is comfortable for him very clearly, because when he walks into that courtroom, I said, there's a presence about him, right? So he walks through the aisle. He walks past Sean Combs on his left. The did the jurors, 12 jurors on his right. He sits right next to the judge. And that is when his body language completely shifts. When he sits on that witness stand, he is not. He's like. He's not hiding, but he's so hunched over, you can barely see the top of his head. Because there's a computer at the witness stand. There's a computer that. Because they have to show, like, evidence pictures. He just. You can't even see the top of his head. But when you see other people that are probably similar in height sitting there, you see, like, a good chunk of their chest, their neck, their head. You just see, like, the top of his head peeking over the computer screen. I felt like that in conjunction with the testimony. He looks like he's melting into his chair, he just, it felt very honest. He could be the world's best liar, but to me it just felt kind of honest.
- [52:12]
Unknown
I think it's interesting because that's what your take. Right. I feel like maybe some of the jurors or a lot of them may feel the same way, like, oh, they can trust what he's saying because that's the energy that they get.
- [52:25]
Stephanie Hsu
There was not one point where I felt like he was saying something to make himself appear better or to make himself appear more law abiding. It just felt almost uncomfortably honest.
- [52:36]
Unknown
Right?
- [52:37]
Stephanie Hsu
Yeah. Like he was tied up to a truth machine is my opinion. And again, I could be naive, I could be dumb. He could be the world's best liar, but I mean, he is on the stand. That would be perjury. He's asked, were there times when you texted her and she did not respond? She never responded to my text messages, usually, like, he's like that honest. So it feels like it's very interesting to see him going into the cross examination. And the main person that's going to be doing that is defense attorney Xavier Donaldson. Now, to be fair, I do want to preface this before we get into this. He was one of the later additions to the defense team. He joined the defense team days before the trial. Days before the trial. I mean, what are we supposed to expect? Mark Agnifolo was hired a full year ago, so the difference in preparation time is massive. So just keep that in mind throughout all of this because I feel like even in the courthouse, I have only heard, and this is probably like off the record, I don't even know what that means. Right. But I've only ever heard people say incredibly positive things about attorney Donaldson. But this cross examination, I could not look away. And this was the first trial that my researchers and I are attending. We obviously watch live streams of trials. We go through copious amounts of court transcripts. So we were confused because maybe sometimes things don't translate on camera or maybe sometimes things don't translate on transcripts when transcripts are the only things available. So we were confused on like, is this a normal cross examination? Because it doesn't feel like it and it doesn't match any of the other copious amounts of cross examinations we've seen on other trials that are recorded. My researcher even passed me a note that read what is happening? Because we were a little bit lost. So Attorney Donaldson, I feel like up until now he's just been like this six foot five tower. I mean, I don't know his actual height, he feels seven feet tall. He's just impeccably dressed every single day. He's very stoic. You don't see him socializing too. Too much. He appears to be very focused most of the time. This is our first time seeing him in his element. And again, to preface, I don't even think this is his element because he just got on the trial, like, days before the trial, like, he just got on this case. So he's about to cross examine the witness. Witness number two. I think that Brian Steele and Xavier Donaldson have similar mannerisms in the sense that when they get to the podium, they like to use their body. I think they're both showmen, and I mean that maybe in a good way. I think. In a good way. I think. I think. Prosecutor Comey. So this is former FBI director's daughter, Maureen Comey. She's the lead on this. She has her own thing where she is blunt to the point, very direct, and her cadence is very addicting to listen to. She actually reminds me of the judge. Their communication style. Nothing gets lost in translation. Some of the other attorneys, I feel like maybe I'm dumb, but this feels a little rampant. Like, when they're trying to, like, plead something to the judge. I'm like. I feel like this is, like, a lot of words happening right now with Comey. I never feel that her communication is, like, so clear, so direct. It's just so same with a judge is how I feel. Everything so clear, so direct. They're effective communicators.
- [55:48]
Unknown
And this is like you and the researchers.
- [55:51]
Stephanie Hsu
Oh, yeah.
- [55:51]
Unknown
You guys all feel this way. So it's. You can't assume that. That probably some of the jurors feel similarly.
- [55:57]
Stephanie Hsu
Yes. And it's not even just us and the researchers, because when I have certain feelings like this, sometimes I'll even, like, ask other journalists or reporters that are not like other. Like, I'm one. But, you know, I will ask some of the journalists or reporters that are also in the press, and they will kind of guide me. Like. Yeah, I mean, we all think similar things of ABC or D. I'm not saying they think all the similar things that I think or anything like that. I'm just saying, like, certain things. Things. Yeah.
- [56:21]
Unknown
Okay.
- [56:22]
Stephanie Hsu
Yeah, Yeah. A lot of them think K is very sharp. Yeah.
- [56:32]
Maureen Comey
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- [57:37]
Stephanie Hsu
So Tenny is also very eloquent. So Tenny Garagos is on the defense team. Very eloquent. But she does emphasize words as satisfying as Komi does. And it's very interesting because in the next episode, you're actually gonna see Comey and Tenney kind of go head to head. And it's almost like a. Yeah, it was very interesting to see, but both Steele and attorney Donaldson give me showman vibes. It's like the whole energy. I feel like Brian Steele has. Let me explain. This is like how I felt at one point. Down. He walks up to the podium. He takes his time.
- [58:13]
Unknown
Donaldson, you're talking.
- [58:14]
Stephanie Hsu
No, Brian Steele.
- [58:16]
Unknown
Brian Steele.
- [58:16]
Stephanie Hsu
He walks up to the podium. He takes his time. I don't know if that's the intention, but it feels like it naturally builds tension.
- [58:24]
Unknown
Yes.
- [58:24]
Stephanie Hsu
It feels like he's only going to start when he's ready. Like, he uses a lot of power poses as well, but I don't know why, when Brian Steele does it, it feels so natural. Like, I'm telling you, like, the hands on the hips, blazer popped open, hip to the side. He does all these power poses that I feel like if any other guy did, a lot of people would be like, ick. Right. But he does it in a way where it almost comes off. Like, dad vibes. Yeah.
- [58:50]
Unknown
Yeah. Because even, like, you know, the viral clips of, like.
- [58:53]
Stephanie Hsu
Yeah. Like, truly humble under God.
- [58:55]
Unknown
Yeah. The way he delivers that.
- [58:57]
Stephanie Hsu
He's so passionate. Yeah.
- [58:58]
Unknown
It's like, you can you. It's not you. Right. It's so much conviction in that. Is that. That's the trick. I guess.
- [59:07]
Stephanie Hsu
Yeah. Like, I feel. I Feel. I do feel that he appears like the most genuine out of the defense team. And I don't know if genuine is the right word. Like, he just feels very passionate when he does.
- [59:21]
Unknown
Committed.
- [59:21]
Stephanie Hsu
Yeah, he's very committed to whatever the bit is, whether it's a bit or not. Right. But he. He uses a lot of power poses. He puts his arms on his side. His chest is always up and out. And I don't know if it's the fact that I know he lives in Atlanta. I don't even know if he's from the south originally, but it gives me like a Southern gentleman vibe. Now, as for Attorney Donaldson, he gives me more of, like, a polished aura about him. And so when he talks, he likes to have both of his hands in the air so his palms are facing him, him open hand. And he does this a lot where he's like asking questions and he'll like, push the air away, push the air in so it's like back and forth, like, come closer, go away. Come closer, go away. That type of feeling. But I'm just going to be so for real about this. I don't even know where to start. The word of the day is correct. And we counted because I don't know why. Why do we count? What's the word of the day? Day? Correct.
- [60:21]
Unknown
Correct.
- [60:22]
Stephanie Hsu
I don't know why. Why do we count? We are annoying people who calculate what a pen size, amount of a stack of cash would be. But we counted, and this is the span over cross examination that lasted two days. So it didn't last two full days, but it was like the later part of one day and then the beginning of one day. So the first day it was around 97 corrects. The second day it was around 115 correct.
- [60:48]
Unknown
You just keep saying correct in this.
- [60:50]
Stephanie Hsu
Yes. In this total cross examination, I would safely say that Attorney Donaldson said correct 200 times. And the way he does it is not like he's saying correct, like affirmative. Yes. He would do this thing where he will say, then you open the door. Correct. Then you went into the room. Correct. And it was just like this very interesting cadence that was, to me, in my opinion, felt very hard to follow. So when Attorney Donaldson gets up onto the podium, he's everywhere but on that podium. He is not really using that mic. He's looking around the courtroom a lot. At one point during cross examination, and we all wrote this down, it looked like he mid question, like, looked out the window and then bounced back, back into the question. But there was like a slight Pause. And he was looking out the window. I don't know if he was looking out the window or if he was looking at the jurors. There's a window behind them. It was just. There was so much. It was so hectic. The whole cross exit, he's taking off his glasses, putting them back on, but not necessarily to read anything. And I do feel like this with the whole defense team.
- [61:52]
Unknown
So are you saying, like, he's doing a lot but not delivering?
- [61:55]
Stephanie Hsu
Yes. It felt kind of like what you expect from a crime show. Yeah.
- [62:03]
Unknown
Okay, so what are, like, some of the things you. He. He's asked or.
- [62:07]
Stephanie Hsu
Yeah, we're gonna get into it, but just the mannerisms. And like, this is a side note about the whole defense team. I don't know how reading glasses work, but we're all confused about how their reading glasses work. Like, all of them. Brian Steele, Sean Combs, Xavier Donaldson feels sometimes sporadic. Okay, so the glasses are coming off. They're coming in. They're like, he, he's holding them with both arms behind his back, holding his glasses. He's moving side to side. He. He's. He's doing like almost a 360 where he's turned his full body to the defense because the jurors on the other side, then he turns it towards the family, that side, and then even like towards the press. I don't think, again, he's not specifically looking at the press. That's not what I'm indicating. But, like, his body is moving a lot. He's turning at some points. He looks up at the ceiling.
- [62:56]
Unknown
So do. Is it. Does it look like he's nervous or does it look like. That's just how he always says.
- [63:02]
Stephanie Hsu
I think he is nervous. I think that he was not given adequate time because he just came onto the case.
- [63:11]
Unknown
Okay.
- [63:12]
Stephanie Hsu
Okay, so I'm just gonna give you a highlight overview of the cross. Attorney Donaldson asks a question to the witness, basically asking if his job was to help develop the website for the mail, I guess what the public has been dubbing male escorts that he works for and to make it more popular. So he's basically saying, like, aren't you there to help this website get more popular and gain traction? And the witness states, yes and no. And he responds, well, yes, now. And then he's about to ask a question, but the judge has to stop him and say, quote, the jury should disregard counsel's last statement and there should be no statements. There should just be questions. So it just feels like he's making interesting. I Don't want to say mistakes.
- [63:53]
Unknown
So he's not supposed to make statement. It should be a question. But he made a mistake of stating a statement.
- [64:00]
Stephanie Hsu
Yeah. And then mid questioning, he'll have to. He'll just be like, can I have a second please, your honor? It just felt like he was very underprepared. At one point, the witness even asks the attorney, you're asking that question not in the right way. If you would like me to specify. I will like it just.
- [64:17]
Unknown
The witness is correcting him.
- [64:18]
Stephanie Hsu
The witness was. The witness was going off on the attorney. It's so interesting because he is, you know, the prosecutor's witness. So obviously he's going to have a much friendlier relationship usually with the prosecutor. And when Marine Comey. Prosecutor Marine Comey is asking him questions, a lot of the times if it's a yes or no question, he will respond like, yes, ma' am or like, no, blah, blah, blah. And then he'll elaborate. But with attorney Donaldson, he's like pretty hostile, but understandably so. I think he's just like. That is correct. That is incorrect. Like very like he. Yeah, it's very like, he's snappy with it. So attorney Donaldson asks, then, when you met with Cassie Ventura on that first day, you were not going for prostitution, correct? Correct. You were going to optimize the lady's experience, correct? I have no idea what that means.
- [65:14]
Unknown
Optimal.
- [65:15]
Stephanie Hsu
Yeah. So the attorney is like, you were going to optimize the lady's experience, correct? I have no idea what that means. You have no idea what the company's slogan that you worked for means in regards to me going there to optimize the ladies experience? I don't know what you're referring to. Can you be specific with your question? Yes. The company slogan was to provide the ultimate ladies night experience, correct? That was the company slogan? Yes. So it's just like very. I just didn't know the point in some of these questions. And then some questions were just going to. Over what I felt like we already knew. You worked for the company, correct? Correct. Yes, I did. The company sent you to a lady that night, correct? Yes, I did. So you were going there to do the ultimate ladies night experience, correct? I certainly was going there to give a great experience. Yes. For a ladies night for a lady. Correct. For a bachelorette party is what I thought it was. Was. Correct.
- [66:16]
Unknown
So are you saying that a lot of these, like, somewhat dumb questions never lead to anything? The feeling is like it never landed. Where are we going with this? We don't know.
- [66:27]
Stephanie Hsu
Yes. And now I do think, okay, so there were so many parts where I'm like, but you know what? I'm not an attorney. Maybe these attorneys are so smart, they're 10 steps ahead, and we don't even know the end game. Right. But I don't think the juror. The jurors are not attorneys. The jurors are like, I'm a juror, basically. No, okay. I'm not a juror on this case, but in the sense of, like, I am a normal human being without law school experience. So I would imagine that I would have a perception maybe similar to jurors rather than attorneys, because maybe attorneys, in the comments, you're like, oh, no, he's doing this because of ABC and D and E. And you can elaborate. And I would love to read those comments, but as someone with no legal experience, I'm like, yeah, what are we doing? I don't understand what's going on. So.
- [67:09]
Unknown
So by the end of it, did you figure out what his goal is? What angle is he going in?
- [67:15]
Stephanie Hsu
By the end of it, he made me feel more confident in the witness.
- [67:19]
Unknown
So the cross examination made the witness.
- [67:23]
Stephanie Hsu
More credible to me, in my opinion.
- [67:25]
Unknown
Because the whole time he's just like, correct.
- [67:27]
Stephanie Hsu
And the witness's tone is a lot more assertive and firm, like, no. Yes. Like, no, I just told you. So it feels like he. He knows what's going on.
- [67:39]
Unknown
Right.
- [67:40]
Stephanie Hsu
Donaldson also kept asking questions that the witness would say is incorrect, but it wasn't ever clarified. So it just made me feel like.
- [67:48]
Unknown
What do you mean?
- [67:49]
Stephanie Hsu
He'd be like, didn't you do this? Correct. And then he'd be like, incorrect. And then they would never really clarify. So I'm just like, okay, where is he getting that information from? Is he just getting wrong information? Is he. What's happening right now? It just didn't make any sense. And again, maybe I'm done. Maybe attorneys can leave in the comments for me and, like, help us out, because we were scratching our heads over it. In another example, the defense attorney would ask, sir, isn't it actually a fact that Cassie Ventura called you on that first incident and told you to come to the Gramercy Hotel? That is incorrect. Isn't it a fact that Cassie told you to come to the Gramercy Hotel and ask for a person named Black later on, but not to the Gramercy Park Hotel? No. Isn't it true that Cassie called you on the phone and told you that I'm celebrating something for my birthday and my husband Wants to give me something special. Isn't that correct? That is not correct. Would you like me to. No, I don't. Okay.
- [68:48]
Unknown
So at this point, yes, I hear you. And then now I want to know exactly when is that event or why is it incorrect? But they never clear.
- [68:58]
Stephanie Hsu
Yeah, and then. But actually, this whole thing was spoken about when the prosecutor were doing their direct. So Comey was asking, and he was saying that he went out because his boss called him and said, hey, can you do this bachelorette party? Because they want a black dancer. We don't have any black dancers right now, except for you. Can you go? He bought an NYPD shirt. He knocks on the door, she opens with red lingerie. Do you remember? And then now the line of questioning is like, she called you to come to the hotel and ask for black. And he's like, no, not the Gramercy Hotel.
- [69:29]
Unknown
My boss called me.
- [69:29]
Stephanie Hsu
Yeah. So it's like, we just heard the story in a different format, and then now it's like, wait, I'm so confused. Like, I felt confused because I'm like, I don't know if he's talking about what we just talked about, but, like, that doesn't sound right to me either.
- [69:41]
Unknown
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, why is he asking.
- [69:43]
Stephanie Hsu
Yes.
- [69:44]
Unknown
A different story, right?
- [69:45]
Stephanie Hsu
Yeah. And then I'm like, is there something. I don't know, like, did the witness say this at a different time where he said a different story? I don't know, but it just didn't. It was weird. And then there's also just really strange geographical lines of questioning that made me feel like I'm just trying to put a puzzle together in my mind, and it's not working. Now, when you got to the hotel room. When you got to the hotel, I believe you said, according to you, on your direct, you arrived at the front door, and I believe you knocked on the door. Is that fair to say? Correct. When you knocked on the door, someone answered that door. Is that fair to say? Correct. This person that answered the door was a beautiful woman. Would that be fair to say? Correct. And you recall that in your mind there was a beautiful woman opening the door? Correct. Correct.
- [70:31]
Unknown
Same question in three formats?
- [70:32]
Stephanie Hsu
Yeah. And she was wearing a wig at that point. Correct. Correct. And at that point, prior to you. Well, strike that, you hadn't talked to her about money. Correct. You didn't talk to her about how much you would get paid for coming there. Correct. So when you knocked on her door, Cassie brought up to you something about money. Correct. Correct. And that is before you had intimate relations. Correct. So then at that point Cassie gave you money, Correct? Yeah. Correct. Correct. So as soon as you knocked on the door, she opened the door and you had a conversation about what you're asking me? Yes. When you open. Sure. You knocked on the door, right? Sure. Is that right? That's correct. She opened the door, Correct? Correct. You saw a beautiful woman there? Correct.
- [71:17]
Unknown
You're kidding, right?
- [71:18]
Stephanie Hsu
Yes. Correct.
- [71:19]
Unknown
The back to the door?
- [71:20]
Stephanie Hsu
Yeah. No. Okay. I looked over because I was, you know, I was getting a little bit confused because again, maybe there's something I'm missing because I'm not an attorney and I do look over and there are. Well, I don't know if I should go that in depth, but there are other reporters on the other side and I just see one of them and this could be a coincidence. This could be absolutely nothing. He could just be really tired because I think everyone in that courtroom was tired. He's just like rubbing his eyes. He starts from his nose bridge, using his two fingers, rubbing his eyes for a good minute. This man was in distress and he's just reporting. Yeah, I think it was very frustrating.
- [72:04]
Unknown
How about Diddy's team?
- [72:07]
Stephanie Hsu
Oh, I don't want to start drama. Not that they would even watch this.
- [72:11]
Unknown
But what they were reacting to this too.
- [72:16]
Stephanie Hsu
Sean Combs was very reactive.
- [72:19]
Unknown
Really?
- [72:19]
Stephanie Hsu
Not at this point, but he gets even more reactive later. But this is when I say that his statuesque thing I felt is something that's strategic for the courtroom because he was no longer statuesque. He was doing what I can best describe as a three point look, which is he's looking at the witness in my perception. And this could be false. This is just what I felt and what I perceived with my own two eyeballs. He's looking at the witness. I feel like he glances at the jury and then he looks at attorney Donaldson in like a three point what the hell look like. What is like, my God, everything is falling apart type of look. And then he would just look at attorney Donaldson. There's one point where clearly, I mean, everyone on the defense is like waiting for certain moments and they know what the key moments that they're trying to hit. During this cross, Donaldson asks the witness a question. Well, it's a statement plus correct question mark. Right. And I do think that the response that they were. I don't even remember the question. It was not that important of a question, or at least I felt, to me, it felt insignificant because I don't recall the question if it was that important. I do think I would recall that question clearly. Right. But attorney Donaldson asks a question. Da, da, da, da. Correct. And at this point, Sean Combs, he turns his body to the jury, and he's staring at the jury. He's alert, his back is straight. He's like a boy scout on command. Okay. He's ready to, like, I don't know. Yeah. But then the witness says, incorrect. And you see, I saw Sean Combs eyebrows scrunch. And then he sits, like, leans back again, turns away from the jury, and he looks incredibly confused. Confused. So I think this was all a rehearsed thing for the defense. Like, okay, during the cross examination, we're going to ask him this, and he's going to say, correct.
- [74:11]
Unknown
And that's how we get him.
- [74:12]
Stephanie Hsu
Yeah. That's like the. That's the mic drop moment. That's what it felt like. And then they got hit with it. Incorrect.
- [74:18]
Unknown
And you don't even remember what it was.
- [74:21]
Stephanie Hsu
It did not feel like a significant question. I think. I think the problem was the cadence, the flow of the cross. I don't even remember much. I had to re. Go through the transcripts because I'm like, I don't even know what happened.
- [74:36]
Unknown
How many hours were the. The first day for. For that, like, he was asking these questions for how long?
- [74:43]
Stephanie Hsu
Maybe like 40 minutes.
- [74:45]
Unknown
So the 40 minutes he's just asking. Correct.
- [74:47]
Stephanie Hsu
Yeah. And then, like, all the questions, I didn't get a setting. I didn't even know where we were. It was just like, where are you in relation to the couch? You're here. Correct. Like, it was very confusing. I'm like, wait, which incident is he talking about again? And then by the time I'm like, oh, he's talking about that, it would be a completely different thing that he's like, correct. And then it was just so. The pacing was so strange that I didn't know what was happening most of the time. Got it.
- [75:13]
Unknown
So you're confused, you're lost.
- [75:15]
Stephanie Hsu
Yeah.
- [75:16]
Unknown
You didn't get the point.
- [75:17]
Stephanie Hsu
No.
- [75:18]
Unknown
And then.
- [75:19]
Stephanie Hsu
No. Yeah. And then he'll say things like, okay, and then. Now let's get the image right. You were in the hallway cross. Correct. Yes. Correct. She's in the door. Correct. Correct. And at that moment, she hands you the money. She invites me into the hotel room. I go into the room, she closes the door behind me. And then she says to me, your boss told me that upon arrival, I have to give you $200. And I said, correct. And then she handed me about $4,000 or somewhere around that ballpark $4,000, roughly. And this is all before any oil rubbing, correct? Yes. Correct. Before any hugging. Is that correct? That is correct. Before any kissing. Is that correct? Correct. Then it just starts kind of getting weird now. She was standing in, I believe you said, lingerie. Correct. She had on heels. Correct. Correct. She was just lingerie heels and a wig. Correct. A pair of dark glasses. And a pair of dark glasses. Correct. Later, he says, after you got the money, then you looked to the right and saw a man sitting in the chair. That is incorrect. You looked to the left and saw the man sitting in the chair. After she handed me the money, we walked into the room fully past the hall, past the little hallway that was there, toward the couch that was in front of us with the candles and everything on it. And then I looked to the left and on the right side of the room, If I'm facing Mr. Combs. Mr. Combs was sitting in the chair with a robe had. And a bandana over his face.
- [76:46]
Unknown
Yeah, I feel like I recall that.
- [76:48]
Stephanie Hsu
Yeah.
- [76:48]
Unknown
Better than what? Yeah, that's what I pictured.
- [76:51]
Stephanie Hsu
Yeah.
- [76:52]
Unknown
Okay.
- [76:52]
Stephanie Hsu
Yeah. Yeah. So now, while you were standing there with Cassie and after you received the money, you were going to start rubbing baby oil on her, Correct? Correct. She began rubbing baby oil on you. Correct. Correct. And this is while she still had on her lingerie. Correct. At that point. At some point, our clothes were off. She wasn't rubbing baby oil on me with my clothes off. On. Let's walk through it. Sure. So you get in there. You have. I'm sorry, I forgot this part. You were wearing a New York City Police Department shirt, correct? That's correct. At one point, the witness even says, if you don't mind, could you please talk into the microphone? I can hardly hear you when you step away. Because at this point, he was, like, moving around a lot. He would kind of. It's like when in the movies, you see like. Like he had. He would have his arms behind his back, holding his glasses, and then he would kind of pace, and he would look at, like, three different people in the room, and he'd be like, is that correct? And then everyone's like, we can't hear you.
- [77:49]
Unknown
Yeah. And then he's not asking anything.
- [77:51]
Stephanie Hsu
Yeah.
- [77:52]
Unknown
It's just. Your name is John, correct?
- [77:54]
Stephanie Hsu
Yeah. And then he asks, and you took the oil off in front of Cassie or you want. Or you went somewhere else to do that? I took the oil off. I'm sorry. You took the shirt off in front of Cassie? I took my flo. I took my clothes off in front of Cassie?
- [78:08]
Unknown
Yes.
- [78:08]
Stephanie Hsu
So at that moment you got the money, you then took off all your clothes, correct? At the moment I got the money, I did not take off all my clothes. After you got the money, you had a conversation? First she walked me into the hotel room. And then after she had already explained to me, hey, listen, it's my birthday. I want, you know, to do this instead of the dance, the bachelorette party, I want you to rub baby oil on me, rub me down, give me a massage, and wherever things go from there, whatever, whatever you're comfortable with, we can do. And so I told her when I was comfortable with giving her that massage and rubbing her down, and I asked her if she wanted me to do the same, like to remove my clothes as well. And so I stripped down as well to my underwear. Okay, so you stripped down to your underwear. And at that point she's rubbing baby oil on you, I'm rubbing her down, and then she starts doing the same to me. And it started getting intimate and we. When you say it started getting intimate. Uh huh. You mean that you're rubbing her down, you're rubbing her brow, breasts, you're rubbing her whole body down? Correct. After she started touching me, Yes. I started touching her erotically as well. And at that point, Mr. Combs is in the corner. He's not saying anything, correct? No, he's in the corner. Self pleasuring immediately. Okay. And while you are, while Cassie is rubbing you down, it appears that she's enjoying herself. Would that be fair to say? Yes. And you are rubbing her down and you are enjoying yourself, correct? Yes. So I think at this point the line of questioning is to prove that perhaps like, I guess the point trying to being made by the defense is that Cassie seemed to be enjoying it. So it was something that she wanted to participate in, but it just, I think it just gets lost in the sauce. And then that's why you're saying you became, it started getting intimate. Correct? Correct. Because you started getting sexually aroused. Correct? Correct. Absolutely. Yes. Other confusing parts. Donaldson asks, and at some point she took off your underwear. Correct. I took off my underwear. You took off your underwear? Correct. Correct. I think these parts were made more dramatic by the fact that I feel like attorney Donaldson's cadence always feels like there's about to be a mic drop moment. The way he paces, the way he looks at the ceiling, looks around at the room. I'm like waiting for a bomb to drop. Like, okay, the next question he's asking, like we're about to uncover something. That is drastically going to change the case as we know it, only for the witness to just quickly and bluntly tell him, yeah, no, that's not what happened. Other notable parts. Mid question, someone sneezes in the courtroom. Attorney Donaldson stops mid question to say, bless you. And I don't know the whole cross examination, I think, think, like I said, the direct examination by the prosecutors felt vulgar in the sense that he's stating what happened. And sometimes what happened is not family friendly and it's not the easiest things to hear. And sometimes you do have to use explicit words because there's no better way to clearly communicate exactly the events that occurred. But I felt like with the cross examination, things just got really vulgar. Like, a lot of the headline moments come, I think, from the cross examination. And it just felt like I didn't understand why it had to get so weird. For example, Attorney Donaldson asks, and after you took off your underwear, I imagine at that point she is still rubbing you down, Correct? We're rubbing each other down. She was rubbing you down after you took off your underwear, correct? Correct. And she started massaging your down there, correct? I don't recall.
- [81:36]
Unknown
Did he use the.
- [81:37]
Stephanie Hsu
Yeah, the tower. I don't recall, like, the particulars of how that happened. I just know that we ended up having sex. Okay, so you didn't have intimate relations standing up, correct? No. Okay, so after you were standing up, you then laid her down on the couch. Is that fair to say? Correct. And then intimate relations occurred for. I believe you said, well, not believe, but approximately 30 minutes, correct? No. The first time, that was probably the most beautiful woman I had ever seen. That was really fast. So when you say the most beautiful woman you've ever seen, that caused you to finish fast? Yeah. Were you on top of her or behind her at this point? I have no idea what time frame during this you're referring to. This could be at any point in the interaction. In the Gramercy Hotel, when you received $2,000, were you on top of her, behind her? What happened? Are you asking when I finished? Yes. What position I had her in? I asked that. It was missionary. It was a missionary position. Later, he asks, okay, you. Then she also asked you to send a picture of your down there, correct? That is correct. And she also informed you that you had the largest down there that she had ever seen before, correct? That is correct. And she had said that to you also while you were having intimate relations with her the first time, correct? That is correct. So the first time you were having intimate relations with her you were not only aroused at her beauty, she was aroused at. At the size of your. Down there. Correct. I get the point that he's trying to make, but it just didn't hit. At least for someone that's not of a legal background and just like a regular schmegular person.
- [83:10]
Unknown
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So like you said, he's trying to say that, oh, Cassie liked this encounter.
- [83:15]
Stephanie Hsu
Yes, that's the point he's trying to make. But I think the way he's phrasing it almost felt kind of gross. Like.
- [83:22]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [83:23]
Stephanie Hsu
Like, behind her. Like, she said you had. I don't know. I do feel like there would have been better ways to phrase it, which would also help the defense case.
- [83:36]
Unknown
Yeah, yeah.
- [83:37]
Stephanie Hsu
He also asks questions that I just. Again, I think the defense is trying to prove that Cassie was involved in facilitating, orchestrating. And I guess they're trying to say that she liked and wanted these freaks. But I. I just don't know if this is, like. It doesn't make sense to me why they're asking him this question. They would ask. She also paid for this hotel visit with her credit card. Correct. He's like, I don't know what she paid for with the hotel. I have nothing to do with that. Well, you did learn from your boss that Ms. Ventura paid for this hotel stay with her credit card, correct? That's not correct. She paid for the dancer to come to her with the credit card. I have no idea who paid for the hotel. Hotel. I mean, honestly, it got to the point where I did think maybe the defense was playing chess. I'm like, maybe they're stalling or something because I'm like, maybe because the next witness is Cassie. So I thought. But, like, I didn't understand what they could possibly be stalling for. And, like, there was no way that this was going to continue going on. So it just didn't really make sense.
- [84:40]
Unknown
So the cross examination is not doing them any favor.
- [84:44]
Stephanie Hsu
Yes. But maybe, again, I don't know, maybe this is gonna come up later and then it's gonna come full circle. And I go, oh, okay. So that's why they were asking these what I thought were odd questions. But near the end, there's this moment where this is, like, the second day. Everything is quiet. I think attorney Donaldson was, like, in the middle of trying to think of his next question or, like, going through a paper or something, and you just hear the sketch artist sketching away. Like, you just hear. Because they. They have this giant poster board and they chalk the background and Everything. So there's a lot. So there's a lot of. It's like. And they're clearly drawing him.
- [85:21]
Unknown
Did you see the finished drawing?
- [85:23]
Stephanie Hsu
Yeah, and if it were me, I would be very stressed as well, because it's a lot of pressure, I assume. But at this point, the judge requests a sidebar where there's white noise playing. So anytime there's a sidebar, the attorneys from both sides and the judge will go to a corner of the courtroom.
- [85:39]
Unknown
So what, what situation would they request that?
- [85:42]
Stephanie Hsu
It's just when they don't want a juror, like, usually like problems with something that's happening that they don't really want the jurors to know. So there's white noise playing. Right. But some of the sidebars are included in the court transcripts because they're not sealed. Like, it's not.
- [86:00]
Unknown
It's not confidential.
- [86:01]
Stephanie Hsu
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [86:02]
Unknown
So they don't want the jurors to know.
- [86:05]
Stephanie Hsu
To hear.
- [86:06]
Unknown
To hear. Okay, but you guys also couldn't.
- [86:09]
Stephanie Hsu
No, they play white. White noise.
- [86:11]
Unknown
Yeah, but. But with the transcript, you know what you said.
- [86:14]
Stephanie Hsu
So this is included in the court transcript for that day. But the problem was attorney Donaldson is questioning and he's pointing out what he believes are inconsistencies. So he has the witnesses testimony from an interview that the witness did in 2024 with the prosecutors and then his recent testimony, like a few hours ago. And they're saying there's slight inconsistencies.
- [86:36]
Unknown
I see. Oh, that's why he was so confident, because everything is based off that 2024.
- [86:41]
Stephanie Hsu
Yeah. So he's saying, like the witness allegedly in the 2024 interview said that he felt jealous once when Sean Combs and Cassie were having intimate relations without him participating. But then this time he said that he was never jealous when Sean Combs was having intimate relations with Cassie because they would go into the bedroom for hours at a time. Right. So he was trying to point out that inconsistency. But he had that paper of the original interview on the podium, which I said is right next to the jurors. Okay.
- [87:14]
Unknown
Uh huh.
- [87:14]
Stephanie Hsu
Now the judge is asking him because the judge requested a sidebar. All right, do you have the document, like, right in front of the jury that you're reading from? I have it to the side so I can read. You know, I'm trying to make sure that I. You can't do that. They can't see the document. Judge, Judge, it's right in front of the juror. Okay. Prosecutor Comey says, your honor, I just realized that Mr. Donaldson had his papers on the bar right in front of the jury throughout the cross examination.
- [87:39]
Unknown
Like, literally, they can see it that close by.
- [87:42]
Stephanie Hsu
It's really close. I don't know if any of them were trying to read it. I don't think anyone read it. And I'm sure, like, you'd have to have some.
- [87:50]
Unknown
So they really not supposed to be reading that.
- [87:52]
Stephanie Hsu
No. Yeah. Attorney Donaldson tries to explain. I'll do whatever I can to make sure that the juror can't see it. It wasn't my intention to do that. So it's clear about that. And just the rest of the cross examination is.
- [88:06]
Unknown
Oh, that's what they want to discuss. Oh, is that paper visible to them? Okay.
- [88:11]
Stephanie Hsu
And then the rest of the cross examination is uneventful, except the whole time he's getting stared down by Sean Combs, and Sean Combs is doing the three point look, the witness, what I think is the jury. And then Donaldson, it's like he's watching a third party at this point. He's jotting down notes. He's got his eyebrows furrowed. In fact, anytime the defense. This isn't even just Attorney Donaldson. Anytime the defense looks a little less prepared or their objection gets denied or their applications get denied, the way Sean Combs looks at them is like, what am I paying you for? Like, it's very like. Like, hello? Yeah, like, it just looks like hello. And I do think, like, it's unfortunate, and I think it's interesting how fast emotions change in a courtroom, because I. When we do research on these cases and we're reading court transcripts, and even when we're watching live streams of everything that's happening in court, it's so very easy to hold on to emotions. I don't know why. Right. But when you're in the. I think it's like energy. When there's a collective energy that shifts, it's so hard to fight against it. So during the direct examination by the prosecutors, it was really depressing to hear about all the times that he alleges that he saw violence against Cassie. And it just. It's shocking. It's salacious, but it's really heavy.
- [89:38]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [89:39]
Stephanie Hsu
And then the minute that cross examination starts, it just feels like. Feels like just like kind of frustrating and confusing. So it's like, very weird how many emotions I feel like people go through just watching what's happening in court. We're not even involved, you know, but to watch, it's like a collective emotion. So I do think it's frustrating that that emotion dissipates. And I wonder if that same thing happens for the jurors. If they feel, like, a sense of anger and, like, ugh, this is bad. And then the cross examination happens, and they're like, what just happened? And so they lose that, oh, my gosh, this, like, emotional testimony, and then it just turns into, what was that?
- [90:20]
Unknown
Maybe that's their strategy.
- [90:22]
Stephanie Hsu
Maybe. I don't know. Yeah. Now, during the prosecutor's rebuttal, Comey asks a series of questions that do kind of do what I think she. She intended. I mean, there were statements. She's asking questions, but there were statements made. She. She says, so let's break it down. So she's back. Who would direct you and Cassie to rub baby oil on each other? Sean Combs. And who would direct Cassie to perform ol sex on you? Seann Combs. Who would direct you and Cassie to have intercourse with each other? Sean Combs. Is Sean Combs the same man who threw a liquor bottle across the room when Cassie asked him to. Wait a minute. Yes. Is that the same man that grabbed her by the hair and dragged her to the bedroom? Yes. Is that the same man who called her bitch while you heard her say, I'm sorry, and heard smacking sounds? Yes. Is that the same man who then came out of that same room and asked you and told you and Cassie, in essence, to have intimate relations? Again? In essence, yes. There is a brief argument on the fact that the witness did send a text message to Cassie saying that he loves Cassie and Sean Combs, which, in another redirect, Prosecutor Combs asks him, why did you send that text message? Because I was trying to get her to respond to my messages. She would not respond to my messages. And the only way that I could see if she was okay was to try and bait her into making her. And Mr. Combs believed that I had no problem with what he had done so that they would invite me back so that I could see for myself that she was okay. No further questions. And then attorney Donaldson moves to strike. And there is. Here's the thing about prosecutor Comey. I don't know this woman. I think. Think so far, I. I really don't know anything about her background. I don't even know much about her father. I know he's a very politically divisive person. I should probably do more research. I should probably be more informed, however, from what I've seen in, like, the past week. She's so sharp, and she does not emote when she does, when she talks. She does not emote. I mentioned that in the last episode. However, if you say something that I think that she perceives as dumb, which is probably everything because she. She seems very intelligent. She emotes. She emotes. So she asked this last question, not even going to the podium. So it's like a quick rebuttal that she does on the prosecutor's table. So she's at the very first row, and Donaldson is behind her. And then I'm behind them. Not, like, immediately, but, like, all the way in the back of the room. So I can see both of their faces when they turn around. Like, when Komi turns around, I can see her face. Right?
- [92:50]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [92:50]
Stephanie Hsu
And he sees. Says, move to strike.
- [92:53]
Unknown
Wait, what did she say?
- [92:54]
Stephanie Hsu
She said, like, oh, why did you send that text message? And then he says, I just wanted to make sure that she was okay. And she says, no further questions. Donaldson says, move to strike. The judge says, on what basis? Donald says. Donaldson says, non responsive. Right. Comey turns around.
- [93:11]
Unknown
What does that mean? Can we translate that into, like, easier? Move to strike.
- [93:16]
Stephanie Hsu
Like, he wants. He wants the jurors to forget this information. Right? And he's like, on what grounds? And I guess whatever grounds he's saying doesn't make sense because Comey turns around, and the way she looks at him. I wish I had a more professional way of, like, describing it, but it's like, hello.
- [93:35]
Unknown
Like, this is ridiculous.
- [93:37]
Stephanie Hsu
Like.
- [93:38]
Unknown
Like. No, like.
- [93:39]
Stephanie Hsu
Like, are you thinking? Are you thinking? Am I thinking? Who's thinking right now? Now, that's the vibe she gives me. Yeah.
- [93:46]
Unknown
So.
- [93:46]
Stephanie Hsu
And then she says, it's totally responsive to why he did send that text, your honor. And so the judge overrules, and it's just, like, very interesting the way, like, she never emotes until an attorney does something which she might perceive as dumb. And then suddenly, she cannot hide her emote. Her emote is emoting. So strong. Like, it, like, is a lot. Really? Yeah, it's like a are you dumb? Look. Like. I don't know how else to describe it. That's the.
- [94:13]
Unknown
So she has two modes.
- [94:14]
Stephanie Hsu
Either effective communicator but blank, or are you dumb? Whoa. Yeah.
- [94:20]
Unknown
And then what did Donaldson say or do after?
- [94:24]
Stephanie Hsu
It was just overruled.
- [94:25]
Unknown
Okay.
- [94:26]
Stephanie Hsu
Yeah.
- [94:27]
Unknown
That was the end of this.
- [94:28]
Stephanie Hsu
Yeah, but it was. It seemed very tense for the defense during that time. But not as tense as it's about to get. Get. Because after this cross, there is a quick break, a group, and we go. Outside the courtroom, there's this little. I don't even really know what to call it. It's just like a, an open area and then the elevators and the restroom. But in that open area, there's a group of maybe 10 people. And they're standing outside, right outside the courtroom. And they're either arms on each other's shoulders, kind of like a football huddle style. Some of them are just holding hands and they are in a prayer circle. At least that's what it looks like. And it's all Sean Combs's family because now.
- [95:10]
Unknown
Oh, the whole family went out already.
- [95:12]
Stephanie Hsu
Yeah.
- [95:12]
Unknown
Or during the break, you say yes.
- [95:14]
Stephanie Hsu
And they are in a prayer circle, huddled together because Cassie is about to start testifying. And that is where I leave you. And I am going to go through Cassie's direct and her cross examination, which actually hasn't happened at the time that I'm filming this. I literally have to go to court in like two hours. So, yeah, we're gonna. That'll be the next part of this. Everything that's been going on with the trial. What are your thoughts? Let me know in the comments. And again, these are just my perceptions, my observations, my opinions. And I do think that attorney Donaldson is, I think he will accomplish, he has accomplished probably more in one day than I will do in a lifetime. I do think that it's very unfair that he, he was added on to the case so late. I think if he had a year, as some of the other attorneys on the defense had, I think he would have, I don't want to say he would have nailed the cross because that's weird, but I think he would have, he would have performed at his normal scale, you know, because I've only heard very good things about him. But that was just my opinion of this very isolated event. So what are your thoughts? Leave it in the comments and I will see you in the next one. Hi, it's Stephanie Hsu. Want to listen to new episodes of Rotten Mango ad free? Rotten Mango is now part of SiriusXM's Podcast plus with SiriusXM's Podcast plus subscription. You'll get this plus benefits on dozens of select podcasts within the Sirius XM network. What are you waiting for? Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcast plus on Apple Podcasts or visit siriusxm.com podcastplus to start your free trial today.