Britt Peratt (4:00)

Yeah, that's some crazy things.

Ashley Flowers (4:03)

The judge argues back, because that's just not how it works. He didn't say that Brian Steele argues, but he will say that he hasn't said that. Well, he's about to say it. I'm putting the court on notice. This is where the judge draws his boundaries. No, you don't get to put me on notice. There's no grounds for any kind of application along those lines because no question that you're talking about has been asked, and the answer has not been given. Now, what is your objection to the question that was asked? Why are you scared of Mr. Combs? His answer is going to be, because Mr. Combs is violent and he has had other people killed. To which now the public is wondering. He has. Did his attorney just snitch on him. Like, how does he know that that's what Kid Cudi is about to say. I will say there's a bit more to the sidebar and the transcript on this matter, but we will get to that all in this episode. This is the testimony of Kid Cudi and all of the songs that were allegedly made from Kid Cudi about Diddy and perhaps a song that Diddy was on that referenced Kid Cudi. We would like to thank today's sponsors who have made it possible for Rotten Mango to support Achievement Centers for Children. They're a nonprofit organization helping children and adults with disabilities achieve their greatest potentials. This episode's partnerships have also made it possible to support Rotten Mango's growing team, and we'd also like to thank you guys for your continued support. As always, full show notes are available@roottenmangopodcast.com A few disclaimers before we get started, there are mentions of physical assault, kidnapping, firearms. Many of the quotes and statements included have been shortened and condensed for brevity to cover ourselves legally. You know the drill. Sean Combs is presumed innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. The burden of proof is the responsibility of the government and all of the crimes that he has been charged with are alleged. So please do your own research. Any descriptions and observations. Because there's no cameras allowed in the federal courthouse, any descriptions, observations were seen by myself or two of my other researchers that are present in the main courtroom. They should still not be used as definitive sources for determining how you feel about one party or another. So with that being said, let's get started. It's Kid Cudi Day. The courtroom is back to being packed. So I'm just going to give you guys an idea. I will say the first week, when the trial really kicked off with opening statements and then obviously Cassie Ventura testifying, everybody was honestly shoving to get inside the main courtroom. It was kind of crazy. They only allow a certain number of people from the press and public in. And I'm talking full grown adults. I'm like, I just saw you on TV giving me the morning news before I got here. And now we're like two seconds away from a cafeteria food fight from elbowing each other to get inside. That was the first week and then things started dying down. And now the day that everybody knows Kid Cudi is coming to testify, it is back to being fully jam packed. Officer Riz, he's the officer that runs the courtroom. He is like very strongly like, he just only loves his family. That's what he says. All the time he's like, who's King Cudi? Everybody's talking about King Cudi. And we're like, officer Riz, it is.

Britt Peratt (7:27)

He had no idea?

Ashley Flowers (7:28)

No. He's just here to make sure everything in the courtroom goes smoothly. I don't think he really cares about. About celebrity culture and celebrities and stuff like that. The press pews are, like, listening intently because we have no further context to everything that's going on. So we sit down, the attorneys are in there, and they're passionately talking already. The jurors are not here. The defendant is here, and everybody's very passionate, and they're talking about a dog. So all the press, they're opening up their journals, they're writing down whose dog are we talking about?

Britt Peratt (8:00)

Judges night.

Ashley Flowers (8:01)

The judge is there, and the judge is listening to the arguments about the dog, presumably Kid Cudi's dog. Something happened to Kid Cudi's dog. Defense attorney Brian Steele argues. I think that if the government is going to do this, they say that the witness's dog was put behind a closed door on or around December 22nd of 2011. I just want to make sure that they're not going to elicit testimony from him that the dog acted differently thereafter, somehow traumatized. Prosecutor Johnson stands up. Your honor, Mr. Muscutty will certainly testify about the location of the dog when he came home because that's relevant to his understanding of whether someone had been in his home or not because his dog had not been locked up when he left his home. I do think his observations about his dog after are relevant to the effects of this break in on him. The judge ponders for 0.2 seconds. He thinks on, like, 20 times speed. I think the judge does say he's not going to testify about what the dog thought. The prosecutor's like, he's not gonna testify about what the dog thought. Certainly not. He is not a dog psychic. The press start giggling. The judge clarifies. He's gonna say that the visible demeanor of the dog was different than it was usually. And given that it's his dog, he would know what the dog usually acts like. Correct. He will say after the break in, the dog was jumpier and scared and more scared. Brian Steele is not trying to agree with any of this, though I will object. I don't see why we're getting into what a dog. The judge, though, is seemingly in a good mood. Let the record reflect the smirk on Mr. Steele's face. So, like, we're trying to get a vibe as the press. Okay. Because we're, we don't know what the testimony is. Kid Cudi hasn't testified yet, so we don't know. Whoa, we're talking about his dog. We don't know what happened to his dog. We're so in the dark. But Brian Steele is smirking. The judge seems to be in good spirits. We just go with the flow, honestly. We just like when it seems like should be giggling, we try to giggle. I think that's the vibe. But Brian Steele says, I can't imagine that this is something that should come into this trial. It's, you know, it's afterwards, day two, after the event, the next year, the dog was never the same. The dog urinated on the floor. Why do we need all of that now? We traumatized the dog. That's really what the government is doing here. There are some dog lovers potentially on the jury. The judge says, I agree, this is a very serious issue. And he cracks a little smile. And then the press are like, that's our cue to laugh. It was kind of cute. It was kind of funny, I guess because we don't know the context of anything that's going on. These are just very serious, high paid, high powered attorneys talking about a dog and dog psychics. The judge asks, Ms. Johnson, I think there is a fair point. What are we talking about here? Is he going to say that when he got home and he opened the door, he noticed that the dog was acting differently or is he going to like now? Even now, my dog acts differently. At a certain point it becomes kind of a far afield. I agree, your honor. Unfortunately, the dog is no longer with us and there are literal from the gallery because it's just none of us were expecting that. It feels out of context the way that this whole dog argument was being delivered. It felt like a very light morning and then it got very depressing. The judge says as long as the dog's behavior is in relation to the actual event, he will allow those questions. And after that, I will say the energy persists to be a little bit more tense. I don't know if it's just there's more people in the courtroom and it feels, feels like something more serious is going on even though every single day of the trial has been equally serious. But there's just all these weird tension breaking moments. I will say there have been two court reporters that have pretty much consistently been in the room while they were covering the trial. So it's two of them and they'll take turns and they'll swap out and Then they'll go do the transcript, and then they'll come back and it's like a whole operation. They're incredible at their jobs. But I do think, like, recently, I don't know if the audio in the room was messing up, because every single time one of the attorneys would talk, specifically Brian Steele, the court reporter, would not be able to hear what he is saying. And maybe it's because Brian Steele was not using the microphone correctly, but it's a lot of this tension of, like, what did you just say? And then the attorney has to repeat themselves. And it's like a very serious matter that they're repeating themselves slowly. And it's just like.

Britt Peratt (12:09)

So you're saying.

Ashley Flowers (12:10)

Yes.

Britt Peratt (12:11)

So you're saying the court reporter would jump in, like, can you say that one more time?

Ashley Flowers (12:15)

Yes. And then I think it's because his voice is not one that we're used to hearing, that even, like, we get a little jumpy. We're like, wait, who is talking right now? Who's saying that?

Britt Peratt (12:24)

I see.

Ashley Flowers (12:24)

So it's just like adding a little bit. It's like an extra zing of tension nonstop throughout the day of, like, oh, okay, like, we gotta pause and they gotta repeat themselves. And it's just. It feels. It feels like a different day. This is also the day that we see Sean Combs. We see more of him than I guess we ever intended to. He was, like, bending all the way over to whisper to his attorney, and because he doesn't have pants, his pants were sliding down. He doesn't have pants or he doesn't have a belt. I'm so sorry. His pants were sliding down. And for once, I do think that we might be thankful that there are no cameras in the courtroom. So there's just a lot happening now. I will say, beyond that, the best way to describe Sean Combs energy recently is that he's been trying to interact with the jury more. And I don't want to say this word, but I'm going to say it. I feel like he's pandering. I don't know. That's the best word that we can come up with. And I don't know if he's intentionally pandering. I think the perception is that because for so long, he would glance at the jurors, he would nod at the jurors when they walk in. He would sometimes glance at them and shake his head disapprovingly when a witness says something that he is trying to show them is not true or show them he disagrees. With it, or if somebody says something slightly positive about him that he will agree and he'll kind of nod his head and maybe glance over at the jurors. There is this one interesting moment, and I'm telling you, everybody was getting sick in that courtroom. Everybody's sneezing. It's freezing. One juror in the front row starts rubbing their arms because they're cold. Everybody's rubbing their arms. And what it feels like to us is that it feels like Sean Combs catches that, and the rest of the day, he keeps looking over at the jury and, like, very dramatically shaking. Like those cartoons where you're shivering and then you, like, rub your arms. He's like, rubbing his arms, basically mouthing, so cold. So cold. He's, like, rubbing his hands together like he's starting a fire, and then, like, blowing into his hands.

Britt Peratt (14:18)

So, okay, so you're saying he's looking at the jurors and then also trying to signaling to them, hey, I'm cold. So cold. Right?

Ashley Flowers (14:24)

Yeah. Like, I relate to you. Like, I. I'm struggling, just like you guys. I'm experiencing the same struggle is what it felt like to us.

Britt Peratt (14:32)

Right, Right. It's like a building rapport.

Ashley Flowers (14:33)

Yes.

Britt Peratt (14:34)

Like, body language.

Ashley Flowers (14:35)

Yeah. And, like, he's, like, into his hands, which I agree it's cold, but I don't know if it's that cold. I mean, there's one part. And, like, look, I'm also honking in the courtroom. There are times where I'm, like, trying to wait for the least important parts, where there really aren't any, where I can, like, quickly blow my nose into a tissue because it's more disturbance to leave the room. I always try to find the best time to blow my nose when the judge is, like, not on the bench or when there's the least amount of people. But one thing I noticed, and this timing was interesting this one time where. And I'm not saying he did this on purpose. I. I think it's a hard time controlling it, but it was interesting. Okay, so the jurors, right before they walk in, it's pretty slow. The attorneys are talking. There's, like, a little dead moment where not much is happening. They're not aggressively talking about objections. They're just waiting for the jurors to walk in. Sean Combs seems to just be sitting there. And then the jurors walk in, they're seated. Everybody is trying to get settled. Sean Combs reaches over, grabs a tissue, and just, like, noisily honks his nose and I'm like, I don't know. If it were me, I feel like I would have done that two minutes ago before they walked in. It wasn't like a sneeze. It was like you kind of know when you're gonna blow your nose. So it was just very interesting. It felt like in, in conjunction, in addition to all the shivering and the rubbing his arms dramatically, it just felt like maybe, maybe, maybe he's just building rapport with jurors. And do I blame him for that? Probably not. Because I'm sure a lot of defendants try to do that. This show is sponsored by Liquid Ivy. Whatever your summer looks like, there is one essential companion you cannot forget. That is Liquid iv. Summer is not just a season, it is a lifestyle. Living your best summer means keeping your body fueled and hydrated with Liquid IV. With just one stick of Liquid IV, your 16oz water bottle transforms into this superhero of hydration. This is not another sports drink either. We're talking about a SC scientifically crafted hydration solution that delivers three times the electrolytes of leading competitors. Liquid IV Hydro Science optimizes a blend of electrolytes, essential vitamins and clinically tested nutrients designed to transform your ordinary water into this powerhouse of nutrition and energy. And of course, Liquid IV is always non gmo, vegan, gluten free, dairy free and soy free. Break the mold and own your ritual. Get ready for summer with extraordinary hydration from Liquid IV. Get 20 off your first order of Liquid IV when you go to liquid liquidiv.com and use code rotten at checkout. That's 20% off your first order with code rotteniquidiv.com in the summer, all of.

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Ashley Flowers (17:45)

It's Walmart plus free delivery which saves members time plus money. Yep. Plus an included Paramount plus subscription to stream movies, shows, sports and that can't miss documentary plus Burger King savings. That's right. Members get 25% off Burger King digital orders every day of the week. Walmart+ it's Walmart+ become a member at walmartplus.com $35 order minimum. Paramount+ essential plan only. Separate regist valid and participating USPK in the BK app or bk.com for members only. 25% off one time per calendar day. Terms apply. See Walmart+ terms and conditions. But nevertheless, with Kid Cudi testifying, netizens are starting to dig deep into the Kid Cudi lore. Right now, they are psychoanalyzing all of Kid Cudi songs, trying to see if any of them were written about Diddy. One Kid Cudi song is called Burn Baby Burn, and the lyrics read, burn, baby, burn. Truthfully and noted, I'm back. So please, no more speculation about that. I'm back. They think I'm living life Paranoid motherfuck that, man. They got me twisted they don't know that boy I'm just getting busy killing it. I just want to watch it. Burn, baby, burn. That song was released in 2023. Another one is called Dennis Hook me up with some of that whiskey. So these are like netizen speculations before Kid Cudi is testifying. So I think the minute that people found out he's testifying on what day? The day before, the Internet is like, let's try to up anything we can find. Because so far, all we know is Cassie's civil lawsuit stated that Sean Combs allegedly tried to blow up Kid Cudi's Porsche, threw a Molotov cocktail in there. And then Cassie testified, and she briefly also kind of mentioned it, but it didn't go in depth. And now people are like, okay, now that we know a general timeline, let's go through his music catalog. Another one is Dennis hooked me up with some of that whiskey. It was released the same year his car was set on fire. A few months after actually, like two months later, the lyrics read, they really want me dead, Hate. Not my fault I'm intriguing. Here I go with my second wind. Bitch, you already know I'm going in. I've been waiting I've been waiting to shit on you now side note, screenshots show. Old screenshots allegedly show that he tweeted around this time when he released this song. Do you guys want to know whose girl found me intriguing?

Britt Peratt (20:05)

Wow.

Ashley Flowers (20:05)

And then he deleted it. And allegedly, he said that he was hacked. Even Kid Cudi's 2013. So this is a year after his car blows up. His 2013 album called Indica. The album cover is just an explosion that's framed. It's like the red flames of an explosion with the parental advisory in the Corner. And netizens are now wondering, is that about Diddy allegedly trying to blow up his car because of Cassie? And everybody's confused. Are these songs about his car being set on fire? Which side note, nobody even knew up until like a few years ago. I mean, how did they keep this under wraps for so long? That's what some netizens are wondering. And I think a lot of the reason that netizens have taken it upon themselves to search into Kid Cudi's lyrics is he's pretty well known for his artist artistry. People will say that you can clearly see what type of era in life he is in by his music. His creative process feels a lot more raw versus manufactured. Like this sequence of lyrics will go TikTok viral, which nothing's wrong with that. But generally speaking, his lyrics are known to have a much deeper meaning. In March of 2012. So just two months after his car was allegedly set on fire, Kid Cudi tweets, I hope they understand that. I really understand that. They don't understand. But again, nobody at the time even knew that his car had been set on fire. Nobody knew that any of this was happening. So the day before he testifies, everybody's just trying to dig, go back to the wayback machine. And now he's gonna take the stand and he's gonna tell us what happened. However, I will say I was lurking on some gossip blogs from the 2012 time period and I did see one post from 2012. This is from April of 2012, three months after his car was set on fire. This is a random gossip that reads, Kid Cudi about to die. Sources close to the rapper are alleging that he definitely slept with Bad Boy artist and Diddy love interest Cassie and is now living in fear for his life. Everyone kept it hush hush in the industry, but the rumors were bound to come out eventually. News of the betrayal has been spreading like wildfire. The good news for Cassie is while Diddy is allegedly very upset, initially the affair seems to have brought Diddy and Cassie closer. So now I'm like, what is happening? And there is a rumor from this same gossip thread that Diddy's song from March 5, 2012, again just a few months after the car fire is, well, it's not actually his song, but it's Red Cafe song, which is an artist signed with Bad Boy and he, French Montana and 2 Chainz were featured on it. That song has Kid Cudi's Kid Cudi by name. The lyrics for Diddy's verse read, sorry ass out here. Looking funny. So I'm in my own world. Spaced out. Kid Cudi. Hold the up. Rip Huddy. Side note, space style.

Britt Peratt (22:47)

Like Cudi.

Ashley Flowers (22:48)

Yeah. So I think it seems like he's trying to take a reference at the fact that Kid Cudi is not as involved in the Hollywood life. He kind of does his own thing.

Britt Peratt (22:57)

I see.

Ashley Flowers (22:57)

He likes to make his music. He has a lot of famous friends. Like, some of his closest friends are like Timothee Chalamet, Pete Davidson. But it seems like he keeps to himself. He kind of has his own little world.

Britt Peratt (23:10)

So it's like a. Somewhat of a dig.

Ashley Flowers (23:12)

Yeah. And then he says, rip Huddy. Now, Huddy is apparently a friend of Diddy's that passed away. So people are just digging all of this up in 2012 and then now in 2025. And it seems like maybe Sean Combs is in fact worried about all the things that these witnesses are going to say about him against him on the stand, because he has hired a man named Stefan Casella. This is the newest addition to his legal team. But he's not going to show up to trial. This guy is going to be behind the scenes. I don't think we're ever really going to hear from this man. He is not the former deputy chief of the Justice Department's asset forfeiture and money laundering section. He's probably the country's foremost expert in asset forfeiture and money laundering. He's actually worked for the other side. He has worked with the Feds for nearly 30 years until 2015.

Britt Peratt (24:00)

That is crazy. So now he's gone fully private, his own practice, and Diddy's like, come here.

Ashley Flowers (24:07)

Yeah. He was like, probably at the top of the feds working for the other side. He basically created all the law that Diddy is now facing for the RICO charges.

Britt Peratt (24:17)

Whoa.

Ashley Flowers (24:19)

He recently started going private. In 2015, he opened up his own private firm. Basically, this is the guy that wrote the legislature that is now putting Diddy at risk for his $400 million empire. Because it's not just life in prison. That Diddy is facing. RICO charges means that the government can seize Diddy's assets.

Britt Peratt (24:40)

He's.

Ashley Flowers (24:40)

Yes.

Britt Peratt (24:40)

He's 400 million. I thought he was a billionaire.

Ashley Flowers (24:43)

He was a billionaire. And then a lot of that just started plummeting.

Britt Peratt (24:47)

Like his business assets.

Ashley Flowers (24:49)

Yeah. Because a lot of it was his, like, tequila and alcohol brand interests that he had. And now he's being hired by Diddy. Stefan Casella is being hired by Diddy to make sure that he does not lose whatever money he has. Now, to give you an idea of how influential this man is, he has a monthly reader, like a Money Laundering and forfeiture digest publication. 80 of the 90 U.S. attorney offices read the publication every single month. This is the thing with RICO charge. If he's convicted of that RICO charge, his assets, if the government can prove that it was used to commit a crime, they can seize it.

Britt Peratt (25:31)

Wow.

Ashley Flowers (25:32)

So it's not just life in prison. He's like, he could lose all of his money. So essentially, if he's convicted and let's say an assault takes place at a recording studio, that means not only could the studio be forfeited as an asset to the government, but the recording company that paid for said studio could also be up for forfeiture. Basically, the prosecutors, if they get a guilty verdict, they're going to go after $400 million, and they're incentivized to. That includes his residences, like his $61 million Louisiana mansion that he's been putting on the market for the past, I don't know, a year. Multiple mansions in Miam. Tens of millions of dollars. There's at least one painting that we know of, which is a $21.1 million painting by Kerry James Marshall. He has a private jet, an entire car dealership worth of luxury cars that's all going to be up for grabs. The government's going to want that if he's convicted. As long as the government can establish a clear connection between each asset and the alleged criminal enterprise, it's the government's money.

Britt Peratt (26:31)

Wow.

Ashley Flowers (26:32)

That's why he's hired Casella.

Britt Peratt (26:34)

So now I'm curious. What. What is Casella going to do?

Ashley Flowers (26:37)

His main thing is he has a very sophisticated asset tracing analysis. That's what he's known for. So he's going to go in there and, I mean, it's probably a lot smarter than the way that I'm explaining it and much more complicated, I'm sure. But simply put, he's probably going to meticulously document all the, quote, clean assets that have no relation to any alleged criminal activity, which means the government cannot seize those assets. There are even speculations because people are wondering, why did Sean Combs not take his plea deal? So people thought maybe he didn't take it because he was so confident, like he's a narcissist. He thought he was going to beat the charges. Or maybe the government doesn't have evidence and he knows it. Like, there were lots of speculations, but now with the hiring of Stefan Casella, people are wondering, maybe he didn't take it because if you take the plea deal, it likely would have resulted in asset forfeiture. The Money Laundering and Forfeiture Digest written by casella shows that 89% of RICO pleas include asset surrender. So if you plead guilty, it includes asset surrender. Wow. Which makes sense. And if Sean Combs is convicted, it'll probably be a very intense fight to keep his assets from being seized by the Feds. And it seems like he's gonna fight hard. Wow.

Britt Peratt (27:54)

Okay.

Ashley Flowers (27:55)

Before Kid Cudi walks into the courtroom, everybody's already turned, looking at the door behind the pews like we are physically turned 180 degrees, Sean Combs included. So I'm like looking at him through my peripheral. He's staring at the back doors for a second, and then I think he realizes that he doesn't want to be doing that because suddenly he's the only one facing forward. He, like, refuses to look at the back. Now when Kid Cudi walks in, everybody's staring. Everybody's body is shifting as he's walking down the aisle. Kid Cudi's eyes, just like many of the other witnesses, are trained to the front. He does not look at Diddy. He go straight to the very front where the judge is. I mean, there's got to be at least a few fans in the courtroom, right? Like, that's what I was thinking, Cuz that was a lot of people in the press, the public, the gallery. I mean, hopefully not the jury because they're not supposed to know who he is. Now, Sean Combs is a statue. Like just a statue again. He watches Kid Cudi when he's already in eyesight, and then he watches him sit all the way down on the witness stand. And it's a very intense look. At some points during the direct, Combs looks like he's just staring in a trance. And all you hear are like the sketch artists going crazy on their canvases. And I will say they did do Kid Cudi a little dirty. Now, Kid Cudi.

Britt Peratt (29:11)

Okay, now that you say Diddy is like a statue again.

Ashley Flowers (29:13)

Yes.

Britt Peratt (29:14)

It sounds almost like when whoever is sitting there is a little more high stake for him or for the media. He like statue because he has to really watch everything because likely maybe he will want to show some reactions. So he put more emphasize on his own body languages.

Ashley Flowers (29:31)

When someone is more high stakes, he's definitely more statuesque, especially if it's a personal relationship. So I feel like there are other high stakes witnesses here and there, but it Seems like the people.

Britt Peratt (29:43)

But what about, like all the assistants that you mentioned? Like, that has came before statue, but.

Ashley Flowers (29:49)

Nowhere near a statue, I would say. Cassie, Dawn, Richard, Kid Cudi. Like, these are strong interpersonal relationships where I do think personal assistants. I feel like Sean Combs looks at them a certain way. It's like a different category for him. These are people that have very complicated interpersonal weavings throughout his life. And it feels like he's a lot more statuesque now. But what's interesting is he's very statuesque during the direct. During cross examination, because now the witnesses are getting their credibility is technically being attacked, because that's the whole point of a cross examination. He's a lot more moving. His eyeballs are moving around more. He's looking towards his attorney and the jurors a lot more often. He seems a lot more free usually. So it's very interesting.

Britt Peratt (30:36)

Yeah.

Ashley Flowers (30:37)

Now, Kid Cudi's direct examination is handled by prosecutor Emily Johnson, the same one that did Cassi Ventura's. And they immediately just get into the part that the jurors wanted to know. Did there come a time when law enforcement responded to your home in December of 2011? Yes. Why did law enforcement respond in 2011? Because I had a break in. I'd like to start at the beginning of the break in. How did that day start? Well, I got a call from Cassie around 5:36am and she told me that Sean Combs had find out about us. I was really confused, but she asked me to pick her up. She sounded really stressed on the phone, nervous, scared. So I went to pick her up. And yeah, yeah. Kid Cudi is explaining that even that phone call at 6am which already based on the time, is probably disorienting. He tells prosecutor Johnson. Yeah, he was definitely confused by the entirety of the phone call because he didn't even think that Cassie and Combs were still dating. So she's like, he found out about us. And he probably was thinking something along the lines of like, why does it matter? I thought you guys weren't together. He says, I didn't think that she was still dealing with him because prior to all of this, when Kid Cudi and Cassie start dating, he says that he asked her about Sean Homes, quote, like, if they're still hanging out. Now, Johnson is clarifying, though, because after the phone call, he goes to pick her up. So she's like, why, if you just found out that they're still dating and she told you they weren't dating, like, why'd you go Pick her up. She wanted me to come pick her up. And she was also worried that he would come to my house because he asked for my address and she gave it to him. He goes to pick her up. And he describes Cassie as being really, quote, very stressed, nervous, just scared. Didn't know what Sean Combs would do. Just a reference going back to Cassie's testimony. Side note, I do think it's interesting how each witness talks about the same incident from a different perspective. I do wonder, with the trial expected to be a full eight weeks, how the jurors are going to, like, piece it together. Because just even going through and cross referencing the transcripts is a lot of work. And so far, we're only a small portion through the entirety of the trial. Now, we cross referenced with Cassie's testimony about that night. And she was likely stressed and scared because she was at Sean's house. She describes him as irate. He had just found out at a freak off about the fact that she was dating Scott Mascati through her text.

Britt Peratt (32:48)

Message in the middle of a freak off.

Ashley Flowers (32:50)

Yes.

Britt Peratt (32:51)

Right.

Ashley Flowers (32:51)

And she said he was just so angry. She says he threatens to release freak off videos of her to hurt her relationship with Scott. And as she's leaving his house, she says, quote, he, Sean kicked me in my back on the way out. So I just had a big bruise on my back. I fell to the floor and, yeah, then I left. She goes back to her hotel to get her burner phone to call Scott. But the hotel room that she was staying in was trashed completely. She said it was just torn up. There was. Somebody peed all over the floor in the bathroom. My clothes were everywhere. The furniture was turned upside down. Somebody pooped in the toilet and didn't flush it. It was just gross. Presumably she called Scott from this hotel sounding terrified. He picks her up and the two of them go to another hotel. Hotel, the Sunset Marquee. Kid Cudi says he picked that hotel because he's to go there, and he just thought it was a safe place where she would be off the radar. At this point, Sean Combs isn't even looking at Kid Cudi. He's just taking notes in the courtroom. Like, he looks. It's so disorienting because sometimes I look over at him and he has the demeanor of someone in the press pew, which I don't know what demeanor I'm expecting from him. And this is not like, me critiquing his demeanor or like, trying to police him. Someone's demeanor or psychoanalyze It. It just always throws me off sometimes because he'll have his glasses on and he just looks like a member of the press. Just like, let me write down my notes, because I don't get that feeling from the attorneys next to him. Maybe it's when he writes, he, like, tilts his head sometimes, and it has, like, a more, like, relaxed demeanor, whereas attorneys are, like, scribbling, kind of, like head down. I mean, he has those moments too, but. But it's just interesting. Now they get to the hotel, and the only person that they really speak to, aside from hotel staff, is a woman named Capricorn Clark. And you have to remember this woman because in a day or two, there's gonna be an episode on her. And it was probably the most interesting testimony. A lot happens in that testimony, but this is. She's the one that accuses Sean Combs of kidnapping her by gunpoint. So we'll get into that in the next episode. But this is where things kind of get tricky. Kid Cudi describes Capricorn Clark as being captured, Cassie's close friend. So there must be a very strong friendship element there, or at least perceived to be. Right. But Kid Cudi even says, she hung out with me and Cassie a lot. However, Capricorn Clark is also Sean Combs, former assistant and now the director for his clothing brand, Sean John, the global director, meaning she is ultimately on Diddy's payroll. So now at the hotel, they're on the phone with Capricorn Clark, and Kid Cudi says he hears Capricorn's voice over the phone, and she sounds very scared. Sounds like she's on the verge of tears. And according to Kid Cudi, that's when. When she tells them, Capricorn tells them that Sean Combs and the affiliates were in my house and she was in a car. She was forced to go along with them over there. This is what Kid Cudi said. Now, to give you some context to all of this, and, like, we don't get as much context during Kid Cudi's testimony, but now that Capricorn Clark has testified, which, again, that episode should be up in, like, a day or two, we get a fuller picture. Capricorn Clark was one of the only people in Cassie's life that knew that she was dating Scott Mascudi, aside from her family. So they. Capricorn Clark calls them, and she's like, hey, I'm at Kid Cudi's house. Sean Combs and his affiliates are at Kid Cudi's house. They're, like, inside his house.

Britt Peratt (36:10)

So she's calling secretly. Oh.

Ashley Flowers (36:12)

She's like, I'm in the car outside, and they're in your house.

Britt Peratt (36:15)

I'm giving you a heads up.

Ashley Flowers (36:17)

Yeah, okay. Well, she doesn't even know Kid Cudi's with Cassie. She's like, hey, Cassie. They're inside Kid Cudi's house right now. I'm outside in the car. They forced me to come here. I don't want to be here now. At that point, Kid Cudi says he kind of starts freaking out. Prosecutor Johnson asks him, after you spoke to Capricorn, what did you do next? I got in my car and I went to my house. Did anyone go with you when you went to your house after the phone call? No. He gets into his Porsche 911 Cabriolet. Kind of pertinent later. Now, side note, Cabriole is essentially just a convertible, and his specifically has a soft top, so it's more fabric than a hardshell convertible. Again, pertinent later. He gets into his car. It's nighttime in la. He's driving to his house. He starts calling Sean Combs. He has his number. Can you describe the conversation that you had with Mr. Combs on the drive to your home? Yeah. I'm gonna be very candid. I said, motherfucker, you in my house. And he was like, what's up? I just want to talk to you. I was like, I'm on my way over right now. He was like, well, I'm here.

Britt Peratt (37:19)

That is kind of crazy.

Ashley Flowers (37:21)

Yeah.

Britt Peratt (37:22)

I feel like I don't know if that's me. I would probably call the cops or something because someone's, like, breaking into my house.

Ashley Flowers (37:28)

Yeah.

Britt Peratt (37:28)

Like, already with some crazy intent. Like, I don't know if I would just go straight home and face them like that.

Ashley Flowers (37:34)

Yeah. I also don't know if I would start the phone call with you in my house when they're in my house.

Britt Peratt (37:40)

Yeah, that's kind of.

Ashley Flowers (37:41)

Yeah. But he's, like, driving. He's on the phone. When Mr. Combs said, I'm over here waiting for you, what was your understanding of where Mr. Combs was located? At my house. What was Mr. Combs tone of voice during the phone call? Calm. When Kid Cudi gets home, he says the outside looks the same as it typically does. It looks normal. So he doesn't do, like, a thorough check. It's not until later he realizes that all of the security cameras that were on the outside of his house, for example, the camera that would be angled towards the front door because that Makes the most sense. You want to see who's coming at the door, coming and going. But someone had moved it to the opposite side, basically probably pointing it at, like, the wall, like the building or something, where it doesn't really capture anything of importance or relevance. Kid Cudi walks into the house and there is nobody there. Nobody's in the house. It's empty. So were they lying? Is Capricorn Clark lying? Is Sean Combs lying? Was nobody inside the house? He says that he notices two things. First of all, it's December of 2011. So right around Christmas time. And Kid Cudi had gone to Chanel, bought a bunch of Christmas gifts for his entire family. And they're all open. There's no talk about if any of the gifts were stolen, so I don't think so. And this is perhaps, perhaps an associate of Combs, Perhaps a random person, unrelated, perhaps Combs himself. It seems like this is their way of telling Kid Cudi, I was in your house. But of course, you can't do anything about it because it's not like they broke the furniture. It's not like they stole the goods. It's like, just move some shit around. Yeah. And like, we lived in LA for 10 years. Imagine calling LAPD. And so they came in and they opened, unwrapped the Chanel bows. They'd be like, hey, we don't care. Yeah, yeah, like, they really wouldn't care. You call the police about a break in. They've opened your Christmas presents. No property damage, Nobody was injured. They didn't even steal said Christmas presents. The LAPD would act like they didn't see a thing. Now, the second thing that he noticed was he normally lets his dog roam the entire house. His dog is now which. Side note, okay, maybe the LAPD did try harder because he's Kid Cudi. I don't know. I'm just saying as a normal person with lapd, they're.

Britt Peratt (39:49)

They're no, like, I can totally see.

Ashley Flowers (39:51)

You can totally see that?

Britt Peratt (39:52)

Yeah, 100%.

Ashley Flowers (39:53)

Okay.

Britt Peratt (39:55)

Oh, yeah. They would totally say they're going to.

Ashley Flowers (39:57)

Testify, so we'll see. But it doesn't seem like the investigation really led anywhere. And I can totally see them not caring at all. So now he also notices that. And the second thing that Kid Cudi notices is that he normally lets his dog roam the entire house. His dog is now locked away in the bathroom. So this is like, what the attorneys are all arguing about. They didn't want this in the testimony. The door is shut and everything is not normal. Because that's not what happens. Like, this is weird now. The sad part is, even afterwards, Kid Cudi's dog was basically never the same. Kid Cudi does describe his dog as being very jittery and kind of on edge all the time afterwards, which I'm sure the defense attorneys really did not like that he said that. After you got to your home, what did you do after that? I got in the car, and that's when I called Sean Combs. Why did you call Mr. Combs again? Because I was looking for him. Why were you looking for him? Because I wanted to confront him. I wanted to fight him, you know? Did he answer? Yes. Can you describe that conversation for the jury? I can't remember my exact words. Words, but I was kind of, like, asking him where he was, and he was like, I'm on my way. I'm on my way. So at that point, I hung up. And I thought to myself, I was like, okay, you're angry. You're angry. Just think about this, you know? And, like, I just thought, like, I don't know who he has with him. I don't know what his intentions are. What were your concerns, if any, about going to your house that day? I didn't really know what I was walking into, but I was so angry at first. Then once I thought about it, not really knowing if they had any weapons or if there was any type of situation like that, that's when I called the police. Mr. Muscati, what did you do after that phone call with Sean Combs? I thought about the reality of the situation, not knowing what I was walking myself into. So I decided to call the police. Kid Cudi says the police arrive at his house. They make a report, and he goes back to Cassie, who just seems really stressed out now, since it's right around Christmas time. And I don't know if this was planned. I don't think that this was the original plan. Cassie had plans to go be with her family in Connecticut. Kid Cudi ends up flying out with her. So perhaps it's like this event startled them, so he got tickets, or he already was gonna go. I don't know. He flies out with her, stays with her and the family. Can you generally describe Ms. Ventura's demeanor when you were in Connecticut for the holidays with her family? I think being around her family really did a lot for her at the time. She really needed it. But while they're still there, Sean Combs is still reaching out to Kid Cudi, texting him. I mean, it wasn't Every day. It kind of stopped at some point when I responded to him and I told him I didn't want to talk. His text messages were always along the lines of him wanting to spe just get to the bottom of it. When you say get to the bottom of it, what are you talking about? Just figure out what's going on. I guess he was in the dark about things and wanted to talk, but at that point, you know, post break in, I didn't want to talk to him. Did you respond to Mr. Combs text? Yeah, I told him, you know, specifically told him, you broke into my house, you messed with my dog. Like, I don't want to talk to you. This is December of 2011. They get back in January of 2012. So like weeks later, Cassie and Kid Cudi aren't even hanging out much anymore. So according to Cassie's testimony, she mentioned that she wanted to end things with Kid Cudi because it was just escalating to be too much, and she felt like this was the safest way for all the parties involved. Now, January 9, 2012, Kid Cudi gets a call from his dog sitter at 6:30 in the morning that someone just tried to blow up his car. Now, to give you some context, Kid Cudi's not home. He's at a friend's house about 45 minutes away. The dog sitter's at his house. She calls him from his residence, and according to Kid Cud, she told me my car was on fire in the driveway. After you received this phone call from your dog sitter, what did you do? I immediately went to my house. Pictures of his car are admitted to evidence, and it looks like someone sliced open the top of his soft top convertible, threw in a Molotov cocktail. Visually, there's charring on the driver's seat. There's smoke damage on the door, there's charring on the roof. Some say visually, the car doesn't look that messed up, but it was bad enough that the car was totaled. It was not salvageable. Mr. Muscati, what's a Molotov cocktail to your understanding? It's, would you say an explosive or something like that? I guess it's a bottle with some type of inflammatory liquid inside and a cloth that you light on fire and it ignites. Kid Cudi says that he actually saw the Molotov cocktail when he got home and it was just kind of burnt up. What was your reaction to your car being set on fire? He leans into the mic. What the fuck? Objection. Overruled. Kid Cudi goes on to testify that the last time that he saw Cassie Ventura was a few days after his car was lit on fire at the Soho House in la, which Cassie also confirmed in her testimony. And it's going to be the three of them meeting Sean Combs, Kid Cudi, and Cassie. Kid Cudi says, I reached out to Sean Combs after my car caught on fire and, you know, finally told him that we needed to meet up to talk. You know, he had been wanting to talk to me. So after the fire, I was like, this is getting out of hand. I need to talk to him. Why was it Mr. Combs you reached out to after the fire? Because I knew he had something to do with it. Objection. Objection is sustained. The jury should disregard the witness's last answer. Can you describe what happened when you arrived at the Soho House? Yeah, I walked in and I met with Drock Combs, security guard. He was escorting me into one of the meeting rooms in Soho House. And then I got into the meeting room, and it was like one wall was all window, and Sean Combs was standing there staring out the window with his hands behind his back like a marvel supervillain. And the whole courtroom, they're just giggling. The jurors are giggling. Cause it's so, like, out of nowhere, like, we were so serious. Like, everything is so tense. And then we are kind of. I mean, you can picture him standing there looking like a marvel supervillain, and the only person not smiling, not giggling, is Sean Combs. He does not find this very funny at all, really. Not even a little bit. He, huh? Yeah, it was just me and him in the room. No security, nobody. What happened when it was just you and Mr. Combs in the room at the Soho House? We discussed, you know, pretty much the whole story about how me and Cassie first started to date, to what it was, to how it ended. And his whole point was, you know, we were homies. You know, that was my girl. I let him know that, you know, she told me that they were broken up, and I took her word for it. Yeah. What was Mr. Combs demeanor during the meeting? Very calm. He kept offering me water. He offered me water twice, which I thought this part was so interesting, because I don't think offering water to someone twice itself is intriguing or memorable in any way, because this happened in 2012, it is now 2025, but clearly it must have stood out to Kid Cudi enough that not only does he remember it decade later, but he mentions it in the testimony.

Britt Peratt (46:41)

And twice.

Ashley Flowers (46:42)

Yes, yes. And, like, again, Twice is not like it's. It must have. Something about the two times must have been weird.

Britt Peratt (46:49)

Yes.

Ashley Flowers (46:50)

That he can't maybe necessarily even articulate. Because I don't think I. You know when you just have a feeling and you're like, that was weird. But I thought, did he take it, though? I don't think so.

Britt Peratt (46:58)

Right, right, right. So he must remember that, like, you give me the water, I'm not drinking that. I am not drinking that.

Ashley Flowers (47:05)

Or like, maybe he just kept saying, you look thirsty, drink some water. And you're like, I'm not thirsty. But like, that's weird that you would even keep asking me if I want water when we're already talking and I'm not staying for a long time. I don't know. Or it's weird.

Britt Peratt (47:18)

You think, like, even the way that he's trying to blow up his car, it's already. It's a crazy threat. Right. He's coming after him, allegedly.

Ashley Flowers (47:25)

Blow up his car? Well, yeah, he claims. Yes, yes.

Britt Peratt (47:27)

But he showed up. He still showed up with Diddy.

Ashley Flowers (47:30)

Yes.

Britt Peratt (47:30)

Did he say that? If he's nervous, he's scared because that's a really brave move, like going directly to Diddy.

Ashley Flowers (47:37)

He didn't say any of that. He just said he needed, like they needed to figure it out cuz it's escalating too much. It's getting out of hand. I also wonder if it's like, you know, in the industry you can't really. I guess, I don't know, it's like.

Britt Peratt (47:51)

Going into your enemy's home base. Yeah.

Ashley Flowers (47:54)

What was your reaction to his demeanor? It was very off putting. It was weird that he was so calm. Eventually, Cassie walks in and Kid Cudi says he was kind of upset to find out that she was going back to Sean. Can you describe how the meeting with Mr. Combs ended at Soho House? Yeah. We stood up, shook hands, and as I was shaking his hand, I said, what are you gonna do about my car? I made sure to ask him right when our hands were clasped together where he couldn't run away and I could look him square in his eyes and he looked right back at me with a very cold stare and said, I don't know what you're talking about. I said, okay. Took my hand from his and he said, wait, I thought we were cool. Is there a problem? I was like, you said, you didn't burn my car, right? You said, that's your word. He said, yeah. I was like, that's it. A few years later, Kid Cudi mentions He runs back into Sean Combs at the Soho House. He was with his daughter. And he pulled me to the side and basically apologized for everything he said. And I quote, man, I just want to apologize for everything and all that bullshit. After I got the apology, I kind of found peace with it because I thought, you know, that was the last thing I was expecting to get from him. Now, side note about this Soho House incident, Combs defense attorneys didn't even want it to be included in front of the jurors in the testim. They argue that there's no evidence that proves that Sean Combs was behind the break in in the house or the car incident. Those investigations have led to nothing. They haven't led back to Sean Combs.

Britt Peratt (49:13)

When would attorneys arguing this right now.

Ashley Flowers (49:15)

Before the testimony, before Cudi walked in. So before and after. And I think it's still a point of contention. Well, yeah, they're, like, still trying to file a motion to get it struck from the record. Now Sean Combs is. They're saying there's nothing to prove that he was behind any of this. So that essentially they don't want Kid Cudi say out loud to the jurors on the stand that he met up with Sean Combs at Soho House a few days later after his car was lit on fire because he thought Sean Combs did it. The prosecutors are arguing, well, that's what Kid Cudi thought. He's not saying, oh, I know he did it, or I was told he did it, or he did 100%. He's saying, I went to this meeting with Sean Combs because I thought he did it. That was my thought, my brain. Brain. This whole debate between the attorneys is very intense. I mean, the judge is trying to clarify, like, how would you explain why he was going to the meeting in the first place? Like, he's asking the defense attorneys, how do you connect the dots without explaining what the reason was to have the meeting? Like, he's saying, that's the connecting piece. The jurors are going to be like, okay, that's so random. Like, why are you suddenly going to a meeting with Sean Combs? Then a few days after your car, it's explosion. The defense attorney is like, how would you explain why he was doing the meeting in the first place? How do you connect the dots without. I mean, yet even though he had nothing to do with it, I mean, just leave it at that. Brian Steele is like, just leave it at that. The car blew up and then he goes to a meeting with Sean Combs. And the judge is confused. The judge says, is he just, like, a person who could figure it out, like, sleuth it out? He's like, is he like a little detective?

Britt Peratt (50:53)

Like Sean Combs?

Ashley Flowers (50:54)

Yeah. Like, why is he meeting with Sean Combs after his car blew up? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not like they're friends and the whole press, they're giggling because, again, like, the logic is not logically, and it's just becoming silly.

Britt Peratt (51:06)

Yeah.

Ashley Flowers (51:07)

So it is in the testimony. It was said in front of the jurors. But after Kid Cudi's testimony, which we're gonna get into the cross, there has been a lot of social media discourse, and a few that I find very interesting. And very notable are the comments made by Young Thug, famously one of Brian Steele's clients. He goes onto Twitter so day very quickly tweets and then deletes, damn, Cuddy a rat. Lol. He very instantly deletes that tweet, because likely that started a whole conversation. A pretty heated debate about Young Thug's own case, which, side note, there is no evidence at all that he cooperated with prosecutors, but he did take a plea deal. So some people are saying all people who take a plea deal are snitches. Others are arguing that the only reason that Young Thug got away with his case, quote, got away is because it wasn't handled by the feds, but. But rather the state. So they were like, please shut up while you're lucky. That's what the netizens are saying. I'm not saying any of that. I have said nothing. Others are debating what qualifies as a rat. Some argue, well, no, because Kid Cudi only called the police later, and then he never told the police Sean Combs did it. So he's not a rat.

Britt Peratt (52:14)

Right, okay.

Ashley Flowers (52:15)

But then some people are saying, well, the fact that he's testifying right now is a rat. And then others are arguing, yeah, well, this is exactly what we mean by, Sean Combs was protected by the industry for decades, because the minute that someone speaks out from the industry, you're like, you're a rat.

Britt Peratt (52:28)

Yeah, that's crazy.

Ashley Flowers (52:30)

Another musician that has spoken out against Kid Cudi is Kanye west, which, I mean, I have not really been following all of the atrocious things that have been going on in Kanye's life and the things that he's been saying. But there are lots of connections here. Mainly Kanye West's rather unhinged, outspoken support of Sean Combs. If you guys do want us to do a deep dive on it. We can try to do one. Kanye even recorded a phone call that he had with Sean Combs while Sean was in jail. And basically Sean is telling him him, quote, shit's wicked, wicked, wicked. When I get out there, I want to see you fucking tear down the stadiums. I need to see you back on that stage. I be dreaming of that shit. We're going to have years and decades to fight these motherfuckers. I'm going to see you soon, man. I got, like, 59 more days before trial. This is two months before trial, so I'll definitely be touching in to tap into your energy or something. Give me some fucking life. This shit is fucking sad. Puff Daddy in jail. Fucking sad as a motherfucker. The devil is a liar.

Britt Peratt (53:31)

That is crazy.

Ashley Flowers (53:33)

Yeah.

Britt Peratt (53:34)

And Kanye posted that phone call.

Ashley Flowers (53:36)

Yeah. And it does not seem like Sean Combs knew that he was being recorded.

Britt Peratt (53:41)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Ashley Flowers (53:42)

Now, Kanye has since tweeted and deleted quote, I wish Cudi hadn't testified against Puff. We need not to be locked in white systems praying for Puff and his family. Praying for Puff Daddy and the family. Family.

Britt Peratt (53:56)

Wow. So Kanye really supports Diddy.

Ashley Flowers (53:59)

Yeah, yeah. Side note, Kanye and Kid Cudi, they were actually closely allied. Now, I feel like people who are a lot more musically inclined than I am can probably provide a lot more insight. But from what we could tell, Kanye and Kid Cudi have had a very interesting relationship. Kid Cudi was briefly signed under Kanye's music label, which is not so obviously labeled. Labeled the Good Music Label. And Kanye even went on to call Kid Cudi, quote, the most influential artist of the past 10 years. But then randomly, Cudi announces that he's leaving Good Music. Ultimately, it does seem somewhat cordial. Cudi explains, Kanye and I were talking to each other on the phone, and, you know, these are things that I've been wanting to talk to him about me starting my own direction. And he got it because, you know, he's trying to start his new path and try new things as an artist. And he was just like, man, I feel you as an artist. It's cool. Whatever. This is just from a business standpoint. There's no beef. There's no problems with anybody on the label. It's all love. But the two end up having a very contentious falling out because Kim Kardashian, Kanye West's divorce. Kim Kardashian starts dating Pete Davidson. Kid Cudi remains close friends with Pete Davidson because he was already friends with him. He does not cut Pete Davidson out of his life. And Kanye is Upset to which Kid Cudi even addresses Kanye publicly, saying, I'm not one of your kids kids. I'm not Kim. It doesn't matter if I'm friends with Pete or not friends with Pete. None of this shit had anything to do with me. If you can't be a grown man and deal with the fact that you lost your woman, like what do you want me to do? That's not my fucking problem. You need to own up to your shit like every man in this life has. I've lost women too, and I've had to own up to it. I don't need that in my life. I don't need it because at this point Kanye was doing his thing where he's like tweeting and Instagram storing like just bullshit right now. Another focus is a lot of netizens have been using Kid Cudi's cross examination to start a new round of discourse about whether or not Cassie is a victim. I think that discourse is likely kicked off by Brian Steele's cross examination. I do think that when it comes to cross examinations originally, I mean, I do think that regardless of like, if one thinks certain elements and like twisting of the words, because I do think that cross examinations are all twisting the witnesses words and it's unfair. And every witness walks away like, what the hell was that? Probably right. But I think in the act itself, I think Nicole Westmoreland really sells her cross well. Mark Agnifolo, he will do the longest crosses in the history of what feels like forever. And at every time that he says one more thing, and we'll get to that later, you just hear at least like three people in the courtroom sigh. I feel like one of them's the judge, one of them's the juror, one of them is in the press and then probably everybody else because they, it's like, I don't know why he, he, he's a filibuster. And then Brian Steele had one cross, like a few crosses so far. And then Brian Steele, his crosses have been like, not like they've been okay. He has a showman stature, like the way he stands, the things he does. But when it comes to especially this cross examination, he's just like to the point, he's just trying to get somewhere. Like he's trying to get to the destination. Our state has changed a lot in the last 140 years. We know because Multicare has been here guided by a single making our communities healthier. That comes from making courageous decisions, partnering with local communities to grow programs and services and expanding healthcare access. Access to those who need it most. Together, we're building a healthier future. Learn more@mycare.org the Essential Mango Coconut Freeze it makes its appearance at the dinner party right when the night could go either way. Between nice evening and legendary. Served in eight perfect stoneware bowls to the sounds of circa 1950 boss and seconds. A good debate and an impromptu round of Never have I ever follow. It's gonna be a late one. The Essential Evening extender made possible with Vitamix.

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Ashley Flowers (58:54)

So he goes up there and he's got this manila folder filled with post it notes and he's got this very clean cut, authoritative seriousness about him. And he starts off, I want to ask you some questions about your Porsche. Okay. Yes. So if you remember, It's January of 2022. Does that sound right? Kid Cudi is like 2012, which is an honest mistake. Right. But it's very interesting because I'm like, did he do this on purpose? Brian Steele looks directly up at Kid Cudi almost in a, in a way where I feel like I would have been thrown off. And he goes, what I say? You said 2022. I apologize. 2012. Like, I don't know if saying the wrong year was intentional. Likely not. But like his confrontation right from the get go I think would have thrown me off. Like what I say. It was like very intense. I remember being like what I say, and it was kind of in like a southern accent, but it didn't come off hostile. It came off like very authoritative. It was just like what I say. Answer the question. Oh, okay, my bad. So it was just a little weird. I don't think Kid Cudi was thrown off, but if it were me, I think I would have been. It just feels intense. Now the main focus of the cross examination is that there's no witness putting Sean Combs or any of his associates near Kid Cudi's house or car the day that his car was lit on fire. And quote, you and Ms. Ventura had been talking every day for about a year. That true? For the most part. And that's why it was surprising to you. I think your word today before the honorable court and the jury, you were confused, very confused to hear that she was dating Sean Combs while dating you. Right. Basically trying to tell the jurors that Cassie is cheating. Kid Cudi responds, yes. Ms. Ventura was not frank with you. True, True. She played you. Those are your words, right? Yes. When she played you, she was convincing about the that. Right. You had no clue. No clue. You were with her a lot, right? Uh huh. True. Yes. He also points out that Combs was the one that actually asked Kid Cudi to help Cassie with her music. Basically portraying Sean Combs was cheated on by Cassie after he tried to help her by introducing her to Kid Cudi, who is objectively a much larger musician than she is. It seems like that's the point that they're trying to make. During the cross, when Sean Combs was with you at one event after one of your concerts in 2011, he actually asked you at if you would do him a favor and do a song with Ms. Ventura. Is that true? Do you remember that? Vaguely. Yeah. You graciously agreed, right? Right. You were in a studio doing your art with Ms. Ventura. Is that true? Yes. And that's how you guys really became close, right? We were cool before. And this didn't hurt your relationship, Right? It was nice. You enjoyed the time with her. True. Yeah, it was. We're truly just friends. I, at the time, Mr. Combs wasn't around you and Ms. Ventura when you were with her, right? No. You two were locked in. You two were focused on each other. You had a great relationship, is my point. Is that true? Yes. And you did things like you exercised together, right?

Britt Peratt (61:53)

What?

Ashley Flowers (61:54)

Exercised together. Kid Cudi looks genuinely confused. Like it was so random. I have a sneaking suspicion that the defense is trying to draw insinuations for the jurors that exercising as a couple, you think of more inappropriate things because it was so random. But later, with Capricorn Clark, it kind of makes a little bit more sense. Just keep it in mind. But it was so weird. Like, what do you mean? Yeah. You went hiking together? No, I don't remember going hiking. Now a few more questions are asked and we're going to get to this later. A sidebar is called. And there's so many sidebars during this entire testimony. And each time Sean Combs is fully bent to the left, like 90 degree angle, like at his hip. He looks like he's about to snap in half. Because there are lots of notes on the sidebars as well. Because the sidebars are included in the transcript unless they're sealed, which means that there's. They have these monitors. They have these giant monitors on all of the court tables for the defense, the government, like the people that work in the court. And you can see every spoken word in real time. It's like a live feed of all the words. A lot of the attorneys, they will just stare at the screen during a witness testimony because they're mainly, like, reading the words that are being said. Now. He's just reading the live feed on. In front of Brian's seat, which is on the left of him. Brian's in the little sidebar. I mean, he hasn't been this intense since Cassie's testimony. He's, like, breaking his back to read the live feed of the sidebars. When the attorneys get back from the sidebar, Kid Cudi is the first to talk. Oh, which side note? Before they come back, there is this one moment where Combs does this thing where he looks in the general direction of the jurors. Okay. He lifts his shoulders up, brings them back down. Like, a big sigh, like. And he starts shaking his head, like, can you believe this? Can you guys believe what's going on? Right. Like, that was the vibe we got. It was very, like, a little theatrical, kind of like that's a vibe. They get back from the sidebar. And Kid Cudi is saying, Mr. Steele, I just want to. The judge stops him. You can't say anything. Mr. Steele is going to ask you a question and you can answer. I just want to clarify something from earlier. You're going to have a chance on redirect. Okay, cool. Brian Steele asks Kid Cudi, though, do you want to clarify something? Yeah. Yeah. I don't think the date was 2011 when Sean Combs asked me to do a song with Cassie. I think it was 2010. Thank you. Now, by the time of December 22nd of 2011, that's when your house. Remember when you talked to the ladies and gentlemen of the jury about the break in? Yes. I want to talk to you about some of that. Okay. You believe that you left your front door open? When I say open, I mean unlocked. Is that fair to say? Yes. And there was no forced entry into your home? True? No. Am I correct? Yes. And in the home, there was no damage to the home. By damage, I mean there was no chairs turned over, glass broken holes in the wall, things like. Like that, true? No. The only thing, I'm not belittling it, but the only things that were displayed differently is that there were some Christmas presents that were unwrapped, right? Yes. And your dog was behind the door, right? Locked in the bathroom, Basically, yeah. And no other disturbances there, right? No. Brian Steele brings up that after the break in, Kid Cudi calls Combs, and he's calm. And Mr. Combs, he's calm, right? When you call him? Yes. He didn't curse at you, did he? No. He didn't threaten you, right? No. He just said, we need to talk, basically. Right? Yeah. Later, after you got home, you called Mr. Combs again because he's not at your house, right? Right. And he answers the phone, True? Yes. Again, he's calm. Yes. And he tells you, I'm coming to your house, Something to that effect, right? Yeah. There's no mention of a firearm, right? No. No one threatened you with a firearm, right? No. You came to meet him and you had no belief that he had a firearm? No one. Ms. Capricorn Clark didn't tell you that, right? At that point, I really didn't know. Maybe he would. I couldn't call it. Let's do it this way. Ms. Capricorn Clark didn't tell you that, right. You know? No. But I took it. She didn't tell you that he was armed with a firearm, right? No. If it's not true, just say it's not true. You were in love with Ms. Ventura, right.

Britt Peratt (66:18)

Wait, so he's asked, like, 20 questions about how this was in a scary situation, Correct?

Ashley Flowers (66:24)

Yeah. He's basically, like. Not to belittle it, but, like, why are you scared? Also, how do you know it's Mr. Combs? He was calm.

Britt Peratt (66:31)

Like, are we all dumb sometimes? Like, it's like, okay, imagine I want him to go home, walk home one day, opens his. His door, and all his gift is open and his dog is locked, and that's it.

Ashley Flowers (66:43)

But I feel like sometimes that's creepier.

Britt Peratt (66:45)

That's creepy. Exactly. That's absolutely worse. Because now you don't know what else happened. If someone just steals some stuff, Remember the question you said we were talking about back in the days? What would someone do in your house?

Ashley Flowers (66:57)

Oh, yes.

Britt Peratt (66:58)

If someone can just do one thing in your house that will keep you up at night, what would that be? Someone will be like, I would just move a couch to the end. Other side.

Ashley Flowers (67:05)

That will keep you up because you didn't steal anything, you didn't break anything. What was the motive? What does this couch mean? What does unopening the Christmas presents mean?

Britt Peratt (67:14)

Yes. Like, it's so much worse.

Ashley Flowers (67:16)

Yeah.

Britt Peratt (67:17)

What do you mean? And then you call, you confront this person. They're not mad. They are calm.

Ashley Flowers (67:22)

Yeah.

Britt Peratt (67:23)

That's like ten times more scary. What is so hard to understand about that?

Ashley Flowers (67:27)

Brian Steele is like, no, this is nothing. Okay. Okay. And you were in love with Ms. Ventura, right? Yeah. And she never told you, as close as you were with her, that there was any ever any type of sexual abuse. Is that true? No. You spent time with her freely, right? Right. And Ms. Ventura was free with you. She was carefree as far as you could tell. True. Yeah. Then Brian Steele brings up the Soho House meeting where Combs is standing there like a marvel supervillain. And Brian Steele says, Now, Mr. Combs made it clear to you that he was also confused. Confused. True. True. Just like you. He's similarly situated. He did not, to your knowledge, know that you were dating Ms. Ventura, right? Yeah. True. And he wants to understand how did this happen? And you want to understand how did this happen, basically, right? Yes. And Ms. Ventura was living two different lives, Is that true? Yes. He definitely didn't threaten you? True. No. In fact, he was gracious. I think your word was really calm. Yeah. And you were professional as well, True? Yes. And it was an understanding, a meeting, that this was about a girl, a relationship, and both of you guys were played. That's pretty much how it ended. True, True. And the person who played you is the same person who played Sean. It's Ms. Ventura. True, true. Which is a crazy question to ask, but it was answered. The worst moment, though, of the cross examination is Brian Steele asks if Kid Cudi and Cassie Ventura were sexually intimate during their romance. Kid Cudi looks taken aback on the stand. He looks confused. He doesn't respond. But before he can even get a chance to respond, there is a very swift, very intense objection because Brian Steele is not allowed to ask that question. There is a very passionate sidebar. Brian Steele turned, tries to defend his questions. I believe that it was discussed on direct, and I'm exploring their relationship. What is there to explore? What's the relevance of the question that they were intimate? Prosecutor Johnson is not having it. I'm watching them in the sidebar. I've never seen her this animated in my entire life. She looks so passionate. She's going in that sidebar, and I know she's fighting. Okay. I mean, she normally has a very calm outwardly demeanor. She is, like, fired up. Your Honor, that is a direct violation of Rule 412. So basically, that is the rape shield law. There's two parts to it. First, Rule 412, it prohibits evidence that proves a victim in a case was engaged in any other intimate behavior. AKA you can't be like, hey, you're accusing this person of sa. Well, guess what? Let me pull up every time that you've ever done anything sexual with anybody else in your life. Life. Let me pull up a whole history, a catalog. It's because it's just shame. It makes the jurors feel like perhaps if she did all those things, maybe she did this thing too. And that's crazy. Second, it bars evidence to prove a victim's predisposition to certain intimate relationships, meaning their general attitude towards intimacy, their desires, their inclinations. AKA you can't be like, well, you're always going to bars and doing one night stands with strangers. Strangers, so maybe you did that with my client. Like, you can't do those things. It's basically to make sure that the victims are not on trial, that they're not dragged through the mud and slut shamed to hell and back. Because, I mean, I think even with this rule, essay trials. I mean, even this trial, even with the rule in place, a lot of trials become about victims morality more than the actual essay charges itself we're talking about. Yeah.

Britt Peratt (71:07)

You know, that is so interesting that there is such a law.

Ashley Flowers (71:10)

The only. The only reason that we know so much about the freak offs and even text messages and all of the intimate relations that Cassie and Sean Combs have had is when it comes to the defendant, it's usually admissible because, you know, we have to. Yeah. Or, you know, the male escorts. Because it's all part of the sex trafficking. It's related to that.

Britt Peratt (71:35)

Yeah. Yeah.

Ashley Flowers (71:35)

But anything outside of that should not be. Prosecutor Johnson argues that this is a direct violation of Rule 412, which the judge agrees. And the judge asks Brian Steele, what other relevance to this does any of this line of questioning have? Like, what does it matter? All right, I note the objection. No, I'm asking you a question. What is the answer?

Britt Peratt (71:56)

Judge?

Ashley Flowers (71:56)

Yeah, I think it matters that there has been testimony from Ms. Ventura that she is being suffocated. These are my words by Mr. Combs. And she is spending all her time doing unconsensual sex, yet she is having intimate relations with this gentleman. And it's all calm and consensual. That's really where I'm going. The judge states, if that's the relevance, then the objection is sustained. AKA don't ask these questions.

Britt Peratt (72:21)

Yeah, that's exactly the, the reason why this law exists.

Ashley Flowers (72:24)

Exactly.

Britt Peratt (72:24)

Just because she consents to some, you know.

Ashley Flowers (72:27)

Yes. Now, the thing is, Brian Steele likely knew that he's breaking the rule and he did it on purpose. Because what's said can be unheard. Unring the bell. You can tell the jurors, strike that from the record. Jurors disregard that question. But it's already been said. They've already seen Kid Cudi's kind of confused, taken aback response. And it's already, it's in their head now.

Britt Peratt (72:54)

Yeah. Which also. So what, like, what does that even mean anything? What does that even change?

Ashley Flowers (73:01)

Right. Well, I thought, okay, I don't know if this is me because I was talking about it with my researchers and they were like, we were all thinking maybe it's a good thing because she didn't do freak offs with Kid Cudi. So like, if anything, it shows, like, there is a difference in the pattern in which she might choose to have intimate relations, which is, is not the way that is done in the freakoffs, you know, so I guess there was like that point. But then people, you know, it's like, it's still back and forth of like, does this hurt the case? Does this kind of help the case? We don't know. I guess it really depends on each of the jurors because we were debating like, is this going to impact how the jurors feel about the case and the sex trafficking charge because of what they heard? And then we're kind of going back and forth of, well, maybe some jurors think of it as like, this is bad. Cassie was cheating on Sean Combs and sleeping with Kid Cudi, allegedly, according to this question that was asked. That's what it felt like. But then on the flip side, it could be like, well, if they're not having freak offs, which if they were, it probably would have been brought up then. Does that mean, you know, it's like, it's very confusing now after Scott Muscati is off the stand. I have never seen, I mean, that's the majority of the story.

Britt Peratt (74:10)

That's his real name.

Ashley Flowers (74:11)

Yes. Scott Muscati. And he is off the stand. I have never seen Judge Arun this mad during the entirety of the trial. He is pretty infuriated. The jurors are no longer in the courtroom and Maureen Comey brings up the 412 issue. Prosecutor Comey says, all of us at the government table were frankly shocked at counsel asking the question that he asked about sexual activity with another person. I do not think your honors, ruling from the bench could have been clear about the bounds of Rule 412. Apparently, we need to make them even clearer. The. The rule itself is crystal clear that any evidence of any victim's sexual activity outside of the charged conduct must be noticed, and the victim must have a right to be heard. And the victim must have a right to be heard in a sealed proceeding. It is frankly outrageous that this question was asked in open court without notice to us, notice to the court, or notice to the victim. And so I would ask that the boundaries be made crystal clear from this point on that that question should not even be asked without raising the issue in the first instance. Well, I agree with you on that. The judge says, one, the line was crystal clear, and two, that line was crossed, Mr. Steele. I mean, you knew what you were doing when you did it, and you still did it anyway, and that is unacceptable. If there's any application for further relief, I'll hear it from the government in this instance. We should not have to run into this issue. And that first court question was out of bounds. So is it going to happen again? Brian Steele stands up. No. The prosecutor, prosecutor Comey states, our only request is that the question and answer be struck from the record. Otherwise, at this time, we are not asking for further relief, but we do want to make it very clear that any questions like that are totally out of bounds.

Britt Peratt (75:58)

So there's no, like, consequences for damages done and that's it. Right? Well, there's nothing they say, just tell him, don't do that. Are you going to. To do that? No. You're not. Okay.

Ashley Flowers (76:08)

Yeah. I mean, I. I wonder if the government could. Because he was saying further applications from the government. He's open to hearing it, but I don't think this is a situation where I don't know what the government could do. I don't know if they want to do that.

Britt Peratt (76:23)

That is crazy. So the judge literally say, you knew what you were doing.

Ashley Flowers (76:27)

And the way he was saying it was firm. Like, everyone in the courtroom was like, we were scared.

Britt Peratt (76:34)

And that is crazy because, again, that is a strategy that they're doing, which is dirty. You're literally crossing lines.

Ashley Flowers (76:41)

Oh, it's been kind of dirty in the sense of there was a makeup artist that testified. And like, a lot of these testimonies, a lot of them kind of go over the same things that we've already gone over. And I'm going to try to group them in ways that make sense. And I just didn't feel like this was as pertinent as some of the other testimonies. But Mila Morales, she is a makeup artist for Cassie who testified and said that she saw bruising on Cassie while she was doing her makeup. What's crazy is the defense tried to admit pictures of Cassie, like, half naked photos for album covers because Milo Morales did her makeup in it. So they're like, yeah, we want to show this to the jurors to be like, oh, yeah, this is the makeup that Milo Morales did. But she's, like, topless because it's an album cover and it's Hollywood. And the prosecutors are like, are you insane? Why do you need. Like, you can just crop her face out and say she did the makeup? And the defense were just like, well, this is, like, literally just part of the.

Britt Peratt (77:42)

So that was another whole. It was at another situation with the. Was judge involved?

Ashley Flowers (77:46)

Yeah, so the judge was involved. And they're, like, taking away pictures. Like, some pictures were admitted that were not super sexual and, like, topless and stuff.

Britt Peratt (77:54)

But did they put all the picture up for the jurors?

Ashley Flowers (77:56)

No. Nobody were. They were debating it without the jurors.

Britt Peratt (77:59)

They tried to put it on there.

Ashley Flowers (78:00)

They tried to put it on, and the government object to a bunch of them because they're like, she's literally topless in one of them. Wow. And you're trying to say, oh, I'm just showing this to the jury to show them that this is the makeup look that the witness did on Cassie. It was just. I think, like, even in the courtroom, when the defense were trying to argue their points, it was like, I. You could just feel a lot of people wincing because it's like, we know what you're trying to do.

Britt Peratt (78:28)

And that's interesting because, yeah, like, you would think the court is about justice and the truth. Meanwhile, a lot of it. These are subconscious human flaws. Like, you're trying to say, hey, look at this woman dress this way. Therefore. Yeah, it has nothing to do with the case.

Ashley Flowers (78:46)

Yeah, it was. Yeah, it was kind of. Kind of dirty. Especially the pictures. I think it was. Kind of. A lot of people felt ick about it.

Britt Peratt (78:56)

Yeah.

Ashley Flowers (78:57)

Now, side note, speaking of Brian Steele's kind of wild move for a mistrial comment in the sidebar, a lot of netizens were saying that Brian Steele just snitched on Diddy. Sean Combs killed people. And the defense team just admitted it because he was like, I know what Kid Cudi's gonna say. The government knows that Kid Cudi's gonna say Sean Combs killed people. Now, I will say there is a tad bit more to the transcripts. Basically, in the sidebar, Brian Steele explains that quote, he called his friend, Kid Cudi called his friend. This is what's in the 3500. I'm going to tell you what that is in a second. I know the court read it. He calls his friends who told him that Mr. Combs has had other people killed. I believe that's going to be his answer on why he was scared. Now, side note, the 3500. So right now, it's the government's case in chief. All of the witnesses are subpoenaed by the government or they are government witnesses, like, willingly coming to testify. It's the government being like, here is what we think happened, and we're going to prove it to you. For the next six weeks. We're gonna bring people to testify for the next six weeks. And every single person, they can cross examine. But you're gonna, like, these are the people that we are bringing to plead our case, like, case in chief. Okay. If someone is a government witness like Kid Cudi, Cassie, Don Richards, all those meetings that the witness and the government have had prior to the trial, they are not available for discovery by the defense until after the direct testimony. So a lot of the times, the defense attorneys will get all of those government notes while the cross examination is happening, happening. So, like, some attorneys will be reading through the 3,500 documents while someone's doing the cross. And like, okay, I don't think. Because I know some people were like, that's why Xavier Donaldson seemed like he was stalling for time. That wasn't the vibe, because he. The next day was the same thing. So that means they would have had the 35 documents all night, came back the next day, and then he was still doing, like, his correct, correct, correct thing. But I know that was, like, a speculation, and I do think that happens sometimes times. Now, obviously, there are witnesses that they're going to be better prepared for. So I think, like, Cassie Ventura was probably one of them because they knew that she was going to testify. She was one of the bigger witnesses in the case. So they must have had a load of questions for her for the cross examination. But a lot of the times they just get the documents of whatever government meeting that they had during the cross examination.

Britt Peratt (81:23)

I see.

Ashley Flowers (81:24)

Yes.

Britt Peratt (81:24)

3,500.

Ashley Flowers (81:25)

Yes. I mean, it's not like three, 500 pieces of documentation. It's just called yeah.

Britt Peratt (81:30)

Okay.

Ashley Flowers (81:30)

This is like the rule. And he's saying, you saw it in there. He called his friend. Like, he probably told the government in a government meeting prior to the testimony. I called my friend, and they said, he's had people killed.

Britt Peratt (81:43)

Right.

Ashley Flowers (81:43)

So then they just got those notes, and then he's like, God, I'm freaking out. Like, he's gonna say this, and the government knows he's gonna say this because it's in the government notes. He's already said this to the government before. Now, it has been kind of taken out of context where everywhere I see on social media, they're like, did Brian Steele just snitch on his own client? But that's the rest of the context for you, okay? Of like, it wasn't Brian Steele being like, he had people killed. It was like, I just saw the 3500. You probably just saw the. Like, I think a lot of it was probably like, he saw it and started panicking. Not that I'm giving anybody an excuse after the question that he asked, but I think it was like that. So he's saying he knows that Kid Cudi called a friend, and he's not actually admitting that his client killed someone or anything of that sort. Nevertheless, I will say it was very startling to read in the transcript. But with that, I think this is the perfect place to leave you, because the very next episode, which will hopefully be up in the next day or two, is going to be on the full testimony of Capricorn Clark. She is the one that shows showed up at Kid Cudi's house during the break in. She's the one that called them from the car. She is the one that has accused Sean Combs of kidnapping. It was one of the more insane, direct and cross examinations in the sense that I think, you know, we have a lot of people that are testifying. They have been in contentious legal battles. They have. Or, you know, even like Cassie and Don Michelle Shard, They've been in the public eye for so long, and I think that they have so many scars as well. They choose to, I think, have a different way that they cope with it. And when they testify, it presents differently. With Capricorn Clark, I don't think I've ever met someone who has no filter, is the feeling. And not that I personally met her, but it was like the most unfiltered testimony in the entire trial. And a lot of it seemed like a lot of people were emotionally moved by her testimony. So there's a lot going on, and that will be in the very next episode. So with that, please stay safe and I will see you in the next one. For 140 years, MultiCare has been in Washington prioritizing long term solutions, partnering with local communities, and expanding access to care. Together, we're building a healthier future. Learn more@mycare.org in the summer, all of.

Unknown (84:30)

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