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Kidnapping Of Nancy Guthrie: 2 Men Detained & Why Is The Internet Pointing Fingers At Son-in-Law
00:41:23
A woman dressed like Kanye’s wife, Bianca Censori, flips off the rest of the people surrounding the house, news vans & nosy neighbors, as they shame her for posing and taking pictures in front of the crime scene. The red brick house is home to Nancy Guthrie, who has been missing for over a month. Day one, day two, and now going on 30 plus days, the scene outside her home, where she disappeared from has been national news. And even with a million dollar reward, the head of the FBI getting involved over Twitter, the ‘president’ getting involved, there are still no solid answers. And when there are no solid answers, people tend to start creating their own… This is the case of Nancy Guthrie’s disappearance and suspected kidnapping for ransom. All the conspiracies, speculations, and rumors - including - is this case being used as a headline coverup to bury what else has been happening in the US? Full show notes available at RottenMangoPodcast.com
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- [00:00]
A
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Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Bada bing, Bada boo. There is a segment in Savannah Guthrie's book that has been heavily discussed online, though I think it's not really relevant. Some people have brought it up just because they believe the whole thing is odd and eerie. In one of Savannah's books titled Mostly what God does, she writes about how her and her cousins had this really cute tradition growing up, which they called the Kidnapping Game, where her cousin would visit the house, stay with them during summer break. So her cousin lives in Phoenix, which is a few hours away from Tucson. So her cousin would come stay in their family house in Tucson, and when she's about to leave, she would wake everyone up the next morning really early, you know, Savannah and Annie, and she would say, you should come with me. They would get in her car, drive to Phoenix, and on the way to Phoenix, they would stop by a payphone, call Nancy, Savannah and Annie's mom and let her know, but in like a cute, playful way, more mom, cousin has kidnapped us to take her to her house. Nancy would act shocked because at this point this is like a summer tradition and she would protest how much she would miss her daughters, but then assure them that in a few days she will drive up to get them. It's like a summer tradition. Some people think it's eerie. I think it just makes the whole situation more devastating. I'm sure there's moments where everyone in the family wishes that this was just a joke, that this was also just a game, and that Nancy will be home as if it's just a prank. But it is not. And Nancy Guthrie is now going on over a month of being missing. And this is part two of the audio podcast for the case of Nancy Guthrie. Go listen to part one of the audio podcast if you haven't already. We uncovered the whole timeline, what authorities have said, people's suspicion, people's undying suspicion on Tommaso, which is the son in law, and the arguments against it. And there's just a lot happening in part one. But. But with that being said, let's just jump into part two. There are so many questions, such as does, does the sheriff's office even know what the hell that they're doing? Side note, the sheriff's office of Pima county is the one leading the investigation into Nancy Guthrie's disappearance. They have their own A&E TV show called Desert Law where the sheriff himself does not appear on camera, but allegedly he's extensively involved in the production of it. In the show, they look like this. Well, organized crime unit that moves in synchrony to stop the bad guys, which Tucson is about an hour from the border. So there is a lot of smuggling of all sorts of avocado. Smuggling is big in that area. It's not just smuggling and avocados, but drug cartels will conceal the narcotics mixed in with the avocados to get it across the border. But they don't really handle a lot of ransom for bitcoin cases in Tucson. Do we know that the sheriff is well equipped to handle this case? From the very beginning, there were reports coming out that the sheriff and the FBI were not playing well together whilst investigating this case, which is the last thing you want. And it all stems from they've got beef. They have beef going back to 2016. This is not like one of those cop shows where it's like, oh, this is my jurisdiction. No, it's not. They have long stemming issues between the two. The sheriff has come out and since denied that he feels any sort of beef or vitriol towards the feds. But it is interesting. The feds were investigating Pima Sheriff's department in 2016, believing that they were taking RICO forfeiture funds. Yeah, the thing that Sean Combs was charged with rico. So they're like, okay, if you've been racketeering, I'm going to take your assets. They take the assets and then those assets can be used for department things like crime prevention, specific law enforcement activities. This is by the law, like by the word. Right. But the FBI started investigating because they're like, wait, we think we heard from a little tipster, a whistleblower, that you guys are using RICO money to bankroll the remodel of a cafe inside the sheriff's headquarters.
- [05:13]
B
What can they use it for legally?
- [05:15]
A
Crime prevention. But this does not fall under crime prevention. Like, how does having a better matcha latte for the sheriff prevent more crime? Right. That was denied by the sheriff's office. They said, we didn't do that. And then a whistleblower comes out to. State funds were used to host these special award ceremonies for the cops, helping pay for food, goodie bags for the officers. A Santa sleigh rented tuxedos. Allegedly. The total cost of the award ceremonies was around $250,000 over the years. That was likely taken from RICO money is the allegation. The investigation was a big deal. Like, a really big deal. One of the officers being investigated for transferring funds into his personal account was found dead from self exit on Father's Day. He was widely considered to be the mastermind of this whole RICO money laundering scheme. Okay, well, I don't know if I would call it a money laundering scheme, this investigation. However, even the death, there were concerns that the death should be investigated independently by a third party because sure, he might have reason to want a self exit, but also someone would want him dead because maybe he could go down for everything. That's something to consider. But the sheriff was allegedly adamant that it be handled by his team internally. Sheriff Nano's that same sheriff is the one working this case. And some people who know Sheriff Nano says that he holds a grudge and that he doesn't like the feds after that 2016 investigation. But those are allegations, those are speculations, those are opinions. There are more reports though, coming out that the sheriff does not want the FBI to take over, which, I mean, it seems like they probably should, and that there's just a lot of annoying things happening in this investigation. First of all, here's the weird thing. There are a few key pieces of forensic evidence that are deemed to be highly important in this case. There's probably more that the public doesn't know about, but the ones that the public do know about is one, obviously the blood tested on the front porch turned out to be Nancy Guthrie's. Second, they do find a pair of gloves 11 days later near the house off the main highway. They think it could be the gloves used by the perpetrator or perpetrators. It's like those black nitrile gloves. So, I mean, they found a lot of them. So they sent all of them out for testing, and a ton of them turned out to be. Some of the search workers would just, like, I guess they would put their search gloves into a baggie, and maybe that bag blew away in the wind, and they just had scattered gloves everywhere. But that was a key, key piece of evidence. Then the third key piece of evidence is they did find DNA inside the house, Nancy Guthrie's house, that did not belong to Nancy Guthrie or any of her family members, relatives, or anyone that I guess works in that house frequently. But where this information is sent, where this data is sent to be tested for the forensics is really important. The sheriff, interestingly, the FBI is like, we can take it to Quantico. Why would you not want it tested in Quantico? I don't know anything, but I probably would want it tested in Quantico. Okay. But the sheriff is like, no, I'm going to send it to our private lab in Florida. So he sends it to the private lab in Florida. Now, a lot of people had a lot to say about this, but he does kind of defend his decision. And in a slightly convoluted way, he says, why did we give ours to our lab? Because it's what we've done for years, and our labs always have done well. In fact, we used the FBI before. They're very good at solving things and doing things. But the FBI, not unlike our Department of Public Safety in Phoenix, they have a lab. You know, they could have been used. But we look at it as this. If I use, for example, a state lab, dps, or the federal lab, Quantico, you have to understand they have others using those labs, too. So it really puts a lot of strain on them to prioritize those cases and do what they can with them. Where, if I have my own lab or a contract lab, it allows me easier access to those cases that I think are important to us. And I'm not talking, you know, this case, but I'm just talking cases in general, you know? And he's like, so now we find a glove. FBI says, oh, we can send it to Quantico. And I said, well, you know what? Let's just keep it all in one place. So he's like, I've already been sending it to this lab, so let's keep sending it to this lab. Which I will say, a lot of people are like, okay, there is a little bit of validity in that statement, as when you have multiple different labs involved, and if there is a criminal trial, eventually it's a Lot of people testifying.
- [09:27]
B
Okay.
- [09:27]
A
Yeah. Okay. So then he's like, let's just keep it all in one place. Let's just send it to our lab. And it's not like, no, the FBI's got a bad lab, or no, you know, the sheriff's department uses DNL at bad luck. No, it's about keeping our evidence together in one spot. This is the sheriff speaking. And when that report comes out, it goes to both agencies. It just made sense, you know, out there, they said, oh, the sheriff blocked evidence. This conversation I had with the FBI lasted probably a minute and a half. And they said, makes sense. And it was done. There was no blocking evidence. That's just crazy.
- [09:58]
B
So that glove that they found, you say they found multiple gloves. Why is that glove special?
- [10:03]
A
Or they had reason to believe that it was special. They got it tested, and there was no CODIS database match. Which CODIS is like the vast network of anyone with a criminal history. They have all of their prints. But interestingly, is kidnapping, a lot of experts say is not a first offender crime.
- [10:22]
B
Yeah, it makes sense.
- [10:24]
A
Statistically. You don't have kidnappers that wake up one day with a clean record that say, today is the day that I kidnap someone. Usually they're gonna have some sort of a rap sheet. Previously, so they say that it's very interesting that there's no
- [10:38]
B
suspicious.
- [10:39]
A
And then later they came out to say, actually, maybe it wasn't a glove. That was important because it actually belonged to a restaurant worker nearby. How do they know it belonged to a restaurant worker? We don't know. Like, did they go and test all the restaurant workers? They just said it was a restaurant worker. The sheriff has also been criticized for being seen at a basketball game during the investigation. And apparently the sheriff didn't even know about Savannah Guthrie's video that she posted on Instagram with her siblings. The very first video. Until his wife told him about it. And he mentions this to the media. And so everyone is like, this feels like a very expensive, unproductive investigation if that's the case. Because it just feels weird. We're spending a lot of taxpayer resources and not saying that it shouldn't be spent. I'm just saying there are a lot of missing persons out there where maybe they don't get this allocation of funds and personnel to search. And this is how you guys are handled. Like, you didn't even know that you they were putting out a video. It doesn't even make any sense. The sheriff is also probably not used to being analyzed on a National scale. For every word that he says, he doesn't strike me as particularly organized with his thoughts when he is speaking off the cuff. So here's a rundown of the questions and answers given by the sheriff during multiple different press conferences. Sheriff, is there any indication so far as to whether this was random abduction or targeted? Like I said earlier, we're looking at all the leads, and we don't know. We're going to assume both sides of that. We'll look at both sides. Do you have any idea what Nancy Guthrie was wearing or the type of car that she might have left from or any identifiable information that the public could use to help with the tips? We do not. Sheriff, do you believe that one or more than one person was involved in the kidnapping? Just no clue. It could have been one. It could have been more. Is there any indication that Nancy Guthrie is still alive? We know the medication played a critical role here. It's been 48 hours. She needs it every single day. Are you still looking for someone that is still alive? We hope we are. We hope we are. Sheriff, you said earlier that you don't believe that there's a wider threat to the public. If you're not sure if it's targeted, why do you believe there's no wider threat to the public? Well, we have crime in Tucson all the time. Right. Like any city. And so when you say a threat to the public, is there somebody out there who's kidnapping elderly people in the middle of the night every night? We've not heard that. We don't believe that's the case. We do believe that Nancy was taken from her own against her will, and that's where we're at. Even about the rumors of there being forced entry? He just states, I have no clue where that comes from. We have been very consistent. We are not discussing that at all. Whether it was 4th century or not 4th century, that is something we're just not discussing. We don't know where anybody got that information.
- [13:16]
B
Okay, well, I see. So that's a pretty standard question, no.
- [13:20]
A
Yeah. Has there been any proof of life and has there been any sign of life? I'm going to. Anything to deal with the ransom notes. I would defer to the FBI, but no, not to my knowledge. We are still looking for Nancy. Do you have any reason to believe that she's still out there alive? Or are you fearful for the worst case scenario here that she won't be found alive? Well, I'm certainly fearful of that. I think we all are. But we operate from A position that until we know she's out there, she's alive, we're going to continue thinking that way until we find her. Is there anything more specific you can say about what you believe the motive to be for the kidnapping at this time? Motive is always going to be a question, and we'll know more as we go what that motive is. But right now, my guesswork is as good as yours. With these types of cases, though, sometimes the sheriff does appear disorganized, and that's not really good. One expert states, you are broadcasting basically every detail about this case. The more that's released to the public, the more that is now known by everybody, including if there is somebody out there who has Nancy Guthrie. They have to be very careful about what they're letting out about this case. But the way that he's doing it, he's not really answering questions, so I'll give him that. But it is weird. It's just not the most well done. I will say the FBI, the special agent charge of the Tucson area, he's a bit more organized with his thoughts during these press conferences.
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B
Oh, he's talking as well.
- [14:44]
A
Yeah. And he also diverts questions, doesn't answer questions. And I'm not saying that we deserve answers as the public. Right. They should be deem whatever is the best for the investigation. However, he is able to respond in a way that's very clear, succinct, and like, this is what's happening. Okay, that's it. Hair damage is scary, but with the K18 molecular repair mask, there is nothing to fear. K18 hair has been breaking rules and records since day one. And now soft, strong, bouncy hair is possible thanks to patented K18 peptide, the greatest discovery in hair history. It reverses damage, damage from bleach, color, chemical services and heat in just four minutes. Where it matters most. There was this dead hair test going around for a bit where you take the ends of your hair and you see if they can stand up on their own. My ends were standing up to attention. Just. They were dry, brittle. They felt completely dead. I tried everything. Combing instead of brushing, silk, pillowcases. And then I discovered the K18 leave in molecular repair hair mask. And it wasn't even like I discovered it. My hair stylist used it on my hair and I was like, I need to know what you're doing. And. And it was that. And I'm telling you, life, shine and softness seem to just like, bloom up. After a few uses for breakthrough results, the K18 mask gets molecular Want hair like new? Shop at Sephora or get 10% off your first order at k18hair.com with code Stephanie. That's code Stephanie@k18hair.com from radio silence directors Matt Bettinelli, Olpin and Tyler Gillette of Scream and Abigail fame, Rob Ready or Not to Here I Come picks up exactly where the first film left off. Our heroine Grace Battle, worn and drenched in blood, stumbles out of the carnage thinking she's finally free. She's not. Surviving has made her the target of a mysterious cabal of eccentric, power hungry, lethal billionaire families. When her estranged sister is pulled into their trap, the two must fight the High Council for the seat that controls the world. Double or or nothing. Ready or not to Here I Come is only in theaters March 20th. This is a paid ad by BetterHelp. When I think about the people who have made an impact in my life, I am almost thinking about a woman. I mean, whether she's a friend, a family member, a teacher, my mom, my sister, she always supports everyone around her, despite anything she might be going through. If you're experiencing life's emotional burdens, workplace pressures, raising children, caring for loved ones, or something else entirely, or working with a therapist through BetterHelp can give you the space to focus on yourself. BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform and they handle the initial therapist matching work for you. Just take a short questionnaire to share your needs and preferences and thanks to Better Help's industry leading match fulfillment rate, they usually get your match right the first time. You can also feel confident knowing Better Helps therapists work according to a strict code of conduct and are fully qualified because the woman in our lives deserve support and so do you. Your emotional well being matters. Find support and feel lighter in therapy. Sign up and get 10% off@betterhelp.com rotten that's better. H lp.com rotten. But it's interesting because the police union president was interviewed by Brian Enten and I would go watch the full interview, but he works for Sheriff Nanos and he says Sheriff Nanos.
- [18:11]
B
What's their relationship? Exactly.
- [18:13]
A
So he is the police union president and he's also an officer. So he works under Sheriff Nanos. Right, but he's a Sheriff Nanos. He has an ego that's difficult to describe without sounding hyperbolic and it drives a lot of his decision making. He's very retaliatory. Favorite version of retaliation is wait, he works under him? Yeah, but he can't be fired because he is the president of the police Union. So it's really difficult, I'm sure, to fire him. Wow.
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B
Okay.
- [18:40]
A
Yeah. And so he's like. He's very retaliatory. Favorite version of retaliation is through transfers, which has impacted nearly every unit in this department and decreased our overall readiness, in my opinion. Nearly every unit. The experience and expertise that there was, you know, transferred out for whatever reason, and there are real impacts to that. And it lowered morale. And so there was a lot of hope that in the election in 2024, we would have a change in leadership. And when that didn't come to pass, the. That's when we started seeing a mass exodus of deputies and detectives. So that's been a huge conversation. Most of the detectives in the homicide unit at the Pima County Sheriff's Department, they're pretty green. Like, they don't have a lot of experience. I'm not saying they're not good, but it's like, do you want the doctor to perform surgery on you that performs surgeries every day or once every few months? There's also questions about the team not being well equipped, the turnover being high. Like, it's a lot. The sheriff states, this is a solid team. This is a team who solves crime every day. They are my experts. I would be silly to not listen to them. When they tell me, we spent 20 some hours at the scene, we process the scene. I'm taking their word that they're good. I don't need to hear from some pundit out there who's never done a crime scene. I don't need to hear from somebody who's never done a criminal investigation. I've got experts. That's who I choose to listen to. I don't need to hear from somebody who's never done a criminal investigation. And that's it. It's just all noise in the background. The critics who want to run for office go do that stuff. I just want to find Nancy. I want my team focused every morning. When they hit that low, they know that they have someone who believes in them and their work, and they're going to do it. I have 100% faith they will solve this case. If you are the guy, if you are that monster, you should be worried. You should let her go. Just let her go. And so there's been a lot of talk about Monday. Monday morning quarterbacking. I don't know what that means. I'm not a quarterback. Who said that? The cops? No, a lot of. Yeah, a lot of cops have been saying that. There are a lot of news anchors, TV Stations, social media, content creators, netizens who are Monday morning quarterbacking, which I think is to insinuate that you are giving advice in an arena that you don't know. I guess it's like when guys give quarterbacks advice when they watch their favorite team play.
- [20:48]
B
I see.
- [20:49]
A
Yeah. So I guess we're all Monday morning quarterbacks, but 10 days after Nancy's disappearance, someone is detained. A 36 year old delivery driver. His house is an hour from Nancy's house in Rio Rico, Arizona, which is really, really close to the border into Mexico. And while we do know his name and it been publicly stated and used, I'm still going to call him Rio for Rio Rico, the city that he's from. Just because this case is getting a lot of attention and he's saying that this has ruined his life. Rio is detained, his house is swatted, he's a delivery driver for doordash that lives an hour away from Nancy. He has no personal connection to Nancy. What the hell does he have to do with this case? Why would he want to harm Nancy? That's the tricky part of this case. That's a question that even with Rio or any of these people, no one knows. It does appear to some degree that the motive in this case could be harm. I mean that's one of the more reasonable motives if we are to believe that that ransom note is not real. Because that deadline has since long passed. There was no proof of life. There was no effort, at least publicly known, to reach back out to the family to further communication line to get that Bitcoin amount. If that ransom note is not real, then was the intent harm? It's been reported that Nancy left behind her phone, keys, ID wallet. I don't know if this is true. This is just what's been reported. It has not been authenticated by the law enforcement authorities. But these are the things that you would need to slowly drain someone's finances. You would need to put in their passwords, you would need their phone, you would need their id, you would need their bank cards so that you could slowly transfer funds. So if money was not the motive, what's the motive? If the ransom note is not real, if money's not the motive, what is the motive? Then people thought maybe this is a robbery gone wrong. So this person came to the door and they thought, okay, this is an elderly woman who lives alone and she's probably sleeping at night. And it has been reported that she wears hearing aids. So when she takes off her hearing aids, her hearing is going to Be much less than maybe like a younger person in their 30s who has dogs and lives with a whole family of people. Like, it could be different. So maybe this is the perfect house. And a lot of elderly people have a lot more valuables in terms of like heirloom jewelry. I think younger people, a lot of experts were saying when you target a house with a lot of young families, you have a lot of electronics that are harder to sell. When you target older people, you're talking about gold, you're talking about jewelry, necklaces, diamonds. Like, you get a lot more of that that's easier to sell in the market. So maybe she's targeted because she's an elder woman who lives alone in this isolated part of town. So then you go and you try to do a home invasion at night, but maybe she wakes up. But the question is, why not just run out then? Because trying to rob someone, an elderly woman, of her jewelry is very different from kidnapping someone like those don't even correlate. It's very hard to escalate that way. Unless you retaliate and perhaps you harm Nancy and she passes away at the scene, and now you're removing her body because of DNA or something of that sort. And I know that they sound really grim, but I think the only reason that people are even talking about some of these theories now is that Savannah's newest videos that she's uploaded, it seems like the family have somewhat come to terms with that Nancy might not be out there alive. And I do think, you know, people just don't understand. And I think that brings a lot of fear, especially with a case like this, because, I mean, a lot of other times, it's a lot of other crimes, you can see why things unfolded. Not that it's justified, but I think everyone's scared for their moms. So then the next theory is, okay, well, maybe it's Nancy was harmed and so her body needed to be removed from the scene. Or other people are saying, well, maybe she pulled down the mask or pulled off the mask of whoever was robbing her and recognized this person. Maybe she's like, this is my housekeeper's son that I met once, you know, And I'm just saying housekeeper because it seems like the term that everyone is using. It could be a caretaker, though it's not verified that she had a live in caretaker or a regular caretaker. It could be the pool guy. I'm just saying it could just be someone, right, that has access to her home. But another thing is, if this is a robbery gone Wrong. And these people have probably been scoping out her schedule and her routine in her house. Why not just target the house when she was gone for so many hours at her daughter's house just previously that night. So then there was some people arguing? Well, no, because it was bright outside. So if they broke into the house when it's bright, there's more of a chance that people would see them. But Nancy didn't get back home until like 9:50pm there's still a few hours of darkness that they could have gone in. Yeah, and another thing is why is the backpack so damn full? If you're committing a robbery and you're trying to take valuables, would you bring a full backpack? Yeah.
- [25:57]
B
That doesn't make sense.
- [25:58]
A
There are some people saying maybe the backpack is full of duffel bags that are empty that you undo and then you fill it with valuables. Other people are saying maybe it could contain something darker like a tarp. Because Nancy's blood does stop in the front porch area. So it's not like a trail of blood that leads to a vehicle. Now another thing with the blood though is that a lot of people have been commenting, when you're 84, you can bleed very easily. If you grab someone's wrist at 84 and yank it, their skin is really thin. So that could be the blood. It doesn't necessarily mean that some big traumatic event had happened. It's just, I mean there's questions and no answers. I know you look confused and I don't have answers. No one has answers. It's just question after question and then it's like, oh well maybe this theory is ruled out. But then it just leads to 10 more questions. So now the question is, did Rio Rico man know someone who knew the Guthrie's and knew that Nancy lived alone and likely had valuables? Could he be the one in the doorbell footage? Which side note about this doorbell footage, they did not have this footage for a very long time in the investigation. It's not like Nancy goes missing and this is the first thing that's released when police get to the scene. Nancy's doorbell camera was ripped off. I believe to this day it has yet to be recovered. Additionally, Nancy did not have a Google Nest subscription so she could view the front door camera live. But it did not save and log the video. It would right over itself.
- [27:26]
B
So how did they get the footage?
- [27:28]
A
They had to reach out to Google Nest and see if Google would somehow get that footage. And side note, it is believed that the FBI had a lot of pull in this. And the sheriff has talked about how they were pleading with Google. And I mean these, the last case that we talked about, the Krug family case, these tech companies do not like to give out information of their customers unless they're really like their hand is on the stove. And it's very interesting because a lot of people have a lot of feelings about this. The fact that the FBI could get Google to do this, I think there is a lot of some resentment of why don't you do this in most cases then? Because if you can do it, think of all the cases that could have been solved.
- [28:09]
B
But then that also comes into the right. Like when is your camera private?
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A
Right.
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B
FBI can come in and pull the footage.
- [28:17]
A
Yeah.
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B
So it does seem like a very.
- [28:19]
A
Yeah. But I think the sentiment is more so. I think as the investigation goes on further and the news coverage stays strong, which I think it's good that it is staying strong because I think it'll probably help bring Nancy home sooner. I think there is some resentment that a lot of people feel that their missing loved ones did not get any attention, did not get these types of resources. So I think that's where the anger is coming from. Yeah. So they were able to get this footage 10 days later. And the FBI tweeted the footage. Kash Patel just tweeted the footage.
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B
Really?
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A
Yeah. And so that's, that's why we have the footage.
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B
That is so crazy. Wow.
- [29:01]
A
And also there was a lot of questions of like, oh, I didn't know if you were not recording on Google Nest that Google somehow still has that. Yeah. So there was a lot of conversation about this footage.
- [29:12]
B
These footages are always storage somewhere.
- [29:15]
A
Yeah. But I mean, the sheriff said that Google was working really hard. I don't know what they're doing. They made it seem like they had to like unpeel the code. I don't know. He was making it sound like that.
- [29:25]
B
Okay.
- [29:25]
A
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- [33:12]
B
professional crime to prevent someone using their cell phone, calling the cops or, or
- [33:17]
A
to disable the security systems.
- [33:20]
B
But then he's like just walking up to the doorbell camera and just ripped it off the wall.
- [33:25]
A
Yeah. So a lot of people thought it could be the cartels that are doing this. What? Yeah. And I just don't know why. I think the cartel conspiracy and theory came from the fact that Nancy needs certain medications. And because Arizona is pretty close to the border. I think that's about it. I think there was like a tip that maybe she was in Mexico. I don't think that tip was verified. It seems like the authorities have spoken to Mexican authorities and it does not seem like she is in Mexico, at least as of right now. And just the crime does not speak. Like cartel. Cartels, typically when they're in the United States, they like to run under the radar. I mean, this is like their business.
- [34:07]
B
Right?
- [34:07]
A
So. And when they want to take someone out, usually it's someone involved in the cartel. It's someone that's associated and they're really professional. Like, they're highly professional. So people are saying, like, if a cartel is coming up to your Google nest, your camera's getting spray painted before you can even see their face. Like, cartels are not like.
- [34:27]
B
That's what I'm saying. This footage is weird. So weird.
- [34:30]
A
And everyone is like, is this an amateur? Is this not an amateur? And then once you say it's an amateur, people are like, well, they haven't Been caught. So is it not an amateur? Nobody knows. So what does Rio Rico man have anything to do with this? And why is he detained? Rio's mom is insistent with authorities and later with the media that her son in law, Rio Rico man, has nothing to do with this. In fact, he was at home Saturday and Sunday, the day that Nancy was taken. He was at home an hour away in Rio Rico. On top of that, he knows nothing about bitcoin. So she's asked, did he ever say anything about Nancy? Nothing. We never, like I told the FBI, the investigator, if I knew anything about her. I said I saw her on Facebook, but I didn't read what was going on with her because I didn't know her and I didn't have like the right to. I mean, I didn't want to read the story. I just go over, keep on going, you know, on my phone because I don't know her. Rio's mother in law argues they're just invading my property. You know, I, I told them they're going in and out of my house, taking a lot of pictures and everything. I mean, like I told them we're not hiding anything. I gave them permission, you can go and search. There's nothing in my house. You won't find anything because we don't have nothing to hide. They broke in my house without a warrant or nothing. They broke my door. They went in my house. My son was playing on Nintendo. He had his headphones on. They got him, put him in handcuffs and took him out outside.
- [35:51]
B
This is not real.
- [35:53]
A
No. Rio is her son in law. This is her son actually. Right, right, right. And then Rio is out. He got stopped at a traffic stop with her daughter.
- [36:02]
B
Oh, oh. Rio's wife. Rio and Rio's wife.
- [36:05]
A
Okay. And after five hours of being detained, Rio Rico man is released and he does a few interviews where he states the whole thing was just bizarre. He says he has no idea how he even got involved in all of this. Just wrapped up in this. He states, right now all I know is that they showed my in law a picture of somebody wearing a mask or something and they supposedly look like my eyes.
- [36:28]
B
That's insane.
- [36:30]
A
He says he was honest with authorities. I told them I work in Tucson for gls, which is a delivery service. So he does DoorDash and GLS. I might have delivered a package to her house, but I never kidnapped anybody. He says being detained was terrifying. I felt like I was being kidnapped. They didn't tell me anything in the beginning. They held me against my will. They didn't even read me my rights until two hours later. He says he kept telling them he's not involved. And he thought, quote, what the fuck am I doing here? I didn't do anything, to be honest. I'm innocent. I hope they get the suspect because I'm not it. And they better do a better job and find the suspect so that they can clear my name. I'm done. He says he wasn't given a proper reason why authorities thought it could be him. He has an attorney now who has come out to state that his life has been altered, quote, and now they're living day to day, they're living in fear. So the first thing I'd like to see is Sheriff Nanos and the Pima County Sheriff's office come forward and say, rio, this was a mistake. Rio is not a person of interest. He's not an investigative lead. We messed up. We need to see some accountability, obviously.
- [37:30]
B
So this was from the state?
- [37:32]
A
Yes. Wasn't feds or at least it doesn't seem like they were involved in the detainment. I don't know if they okayed it, if they were in the know, you know. But Rio has not been formally nor publicly cleared by the sheriff or the FBI as of right now. So he could still be involved. There's just not enough for an arrest or he could not be involved at all, which is what more people are leaning towards.
- [37:57]
B
So this is all we know.
- [37:59]
A
Yeah. And then February 13, a SWAT operation is executed and another man is detained. He's pulled over in a gray Range Rover, handcuffed and placed in the back of a plane police car. His Range Rover is then covered with a tarp. So a lot of people thought that he died like he self exited. There was like a rumor going around but they, they just use the tarp so that they can open the trunk and I don't know if they're looking for something, someone, but they don't want the public to see whatever they find. So it seems like a very serious operation. This is not like a little search and stop or traffic stop. Like this is a. He got swatted. His 77 year old mother was also detained and we'll call him Range. He lives close to Nancy. He has a significant criminal history, possession, distribution and fleeing law enforcement. The Range Rover is then taken in to be processed by authorities. It has since been released back to him which leads netizens to believe that they got the wrong guy because they detained him and then released him. He hasn't been formally cleared. He hasn't been arrested, but because of the intense SWAT presence, everyone thought that this would be like a more fruitful arrest, but it wasn't. And so now netizens are confused. Some of them are wondering online, quote, are they just randomly detaining and questioning people at this point, like, anybody who matches the physical description is being detained. Now, a month after the event, a lot of people are starting to lose sympathy in a way. Some comments read, my sister has been missing since 1979. Nobody ever cared for her. So I think they're getting frustrated the more the authorities are trying and failing because it just feels like massive resources but no results. So it's not like people are upset that they're trying to find Nancy. I think it's more. So do you guys know what you're doing? Or you guys. Like, it just feels like a mess and you're spending so much resources and allocating so much personnel and are, are you doing okay? Like, is it worth it? Like, are you getting what you're doing? Like, it just seems so unorganized. Other people are commenting, I wish y' all cared more about other missing people like, y' all do this woman. Others are just saying, the authorities are being so dumb. They say, quote, we can take out other countries, presidents and ours in the middle of the night, but we can't find Nancy Guthrie. Stop it. Others are commenting, distraction case to deflect from the file. Which we're gonna get into all of that in a separate episode because, I mean, that one won't even really be a Nancy Guthrie episode. It's just all of the conspiracies that people have of what this case could be covering up. Now, I don't know if there's a cover up. I will note that sometimes people get personally involved in things. Like, I imagine if somebody that I personally knew was affected by something, I would naturally talk about it more. And people are speculating that maybe it's because Savannah Guthri is appear amongst all the people reporting on this case. And so while maybe the public also wants reporting on other cases and other things going on, they personally want to stay invested in this case. But I don't know how much that makes sense when you're working for, like, a big media corporation who typically don't care who your friends are. So I don't know. And I'm again not saying that this case does not deserve coverage or does not deserve to. To stay in the headlines as long as it has. It's just, I think when it's a one off Situation where you don't get this type of treatment for most missing persons cases, people are wondering what's going on. And with everything going on in the U.S. i mean, there's so much going on now because so much time has passed. Netizens have found another lead to grasp onto, which is the neighbor theory. There is a neighbor that lives nearby. We'll call him neighbor man. He lives, lives, according to him, 15 minutes away. And it's odd because he has been driving to Nancy's house nearby Nancy Guthrie's house to participate in interviews of the locals. People have started comparing his face to the masked man on the doorbell footage, and they think that it looks like him, which, I mean, you can't really tell. Also, every time he does an interview, a press interview, he's wearing sunglasses. And so everyone's like, we want to see your eyeballs because we only really see the doorman's face eyeballs. He's just.
- [42:13]
B
Why would he. Oh, oh. Like his interview is really off.
- [42:17]
A
Yeah. He just starts talking about and comparing the case to bombings, other major crimes. He speaks about law enforcement ranting at the fact that they're at baseball games, basketball games. I'm sorry. He's asked about what he thinks happened, and he goes on a whole tirade about pointing the finger at Tommaso. He thinks it's Tommaso, and he's just. Okay, one interview, no one said anything. But he shows up in a lot of interviews, like random segments with random creators, random tick tockers, random news anchors. Just, he's everywhere. And so everyone's like, why is he inserting himself into this investigation? One comment just reads, my gut is telling me it's you. I mean, he is an odd, odd, very odd individual. Maybe he thinks this is his 5 seconds in the limelight, I don't know. But not any of this is particularly damning, but. But it is very weird. There is also another picture where he's wearing this very distinct ring. It looks like a high school ring. You know those like graduation rings. Yes. And in the gloved photo of the doorbell camera, when he covers his hand, it looks like there's some sort of crease that could indicate either a crease or a bigger ring that's not like a wedding band. So people think that's odd and that's really it. That's all we have. We don't really have anything else. Everything else are more speculations, more rumors, more unauthenticated information. I mean, there's conspiracies that she's no Longer alive at this point. There's also conspiracies about why the FBI would not take over this case if it's a kidnapping. So there's a few triggers that a case has to hit in order for it to be in FBI jurisdiction. So you have to have a victim that's transported across state lines, or an offender who uses interstate commerce, like mail, phone, and Internet, which happened in this case, or crime on federal property, or like a federal agent.
- [44:13]
B
What do you mean mail, phone, and Internet? What does that mean?
- [44:16]
A
I guess if you commit some sort of, like, Internet crime that is under the FBI jurisdiction, and only one of these triggers has to be triggered in order for the FBI to be able to step in. But it's not a situation where they can just force their hand and say, this is our case now. And it's usually not the best for them to do that because they do need help from local law enforcement as well. So it is still Pima county sheriff that is heading this case. But people just don't like that. People don't think that they're competent. But then, you know, you have arguments on the Internet that's like, I don't know, are the FBI that competent these days? It's just no one knows anything. I mean, the authorities don't even know if it's one person, two people, three people, multiple people. If caught, they might face the death penalty because that is what Trump has been hinting at.
- [45:09]
B
So what's going on with Savannah and. And the kids and the family and all of them? Because I've seen some videos.
- [45:14]
A
Yeah, Savannah Guthrie has gone back to New York. She actually just recently visited the Today show. She wasn't on air or anything. She just went to see her colleagues, and there are pictures, like paparazzi pictures through the windows. And she seems really emotional. But it seems like the investigation is still ongoing. The FBI has pulled a lot of their personnel, but I think the Tucson division is still working heavily on it.
- [45:41]
B
But FBI, they have left.
- [45:43]
A
No, they haven't left, but they. A lot of agents. There's way less agents present in investigating.
- [45:50]
B
Interesting.
- [45:51]
A
Yeah. And the entire road leading up to Nancy Guthrie's house has been sectioned off, so you cannot park your SUV as, like, a media station. Legacy media was doing that. You cannot set up a tent to film, like, the five o' clock news. You cannot pose for social media pictures in front of it. Right. So it's been.
- [46:10]
B
What was that about? You were saying someone was posing.
- [46:12]
A
Yeah, I think she's a social media content creator. Who wanted a thumbnail?
- [46:17]
B
Oh, okay, okay.
- [46:19]
A
And then it's just so little has happened that now the conversation is about the conversation. And so now, like, this is what happened with the Sean Combs case. Every time there was like a lull in the case where not as explosive things were coming out during the trial days, anytime we would go because we would monitor what everyone was talking. Not monitor, but like, you know, see what everyone is talking about and see what questions people had. It started turning into, look at the people that are covering the case. So that's what's happening here. So a lot of legacy media is now covering social media coverage of the case.
- [46:57]
B
Interesting.
- [46:57]
A
It just feels very meta.
- [46:59]
B
And earlier you're saying that Savannah and them, they have changed their message since then.
- [47:06]
A
Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't. They still want to bring their mother home. Savannah has put up a one million dollar reward. She's also donated half a million dollars to the national center for Missing and Exploited Children. I don't know, maybe she was seeing a lot of the conversations online where maybe, you know, this led her to do something so incredible and gracious. Right. But, yeah, so that's where we are. There's a million dollar reward and no one seems to still know anything. Again, just to make it clear, the family has been officially cleared by the sheriff's office. And I know that especially when you read about a lot of crime cases, you do think it's always closest to the victim, like they must know something or they must be involved. But I think in a case like this where it's getting that much coverage and that much attention, we just have to hope that the authorities are doing the right thing. And I think to point the finger at a relative without much substantial information is pretty reckless. So I hope that I was able to comprehensively give you an overview of the conversation. But again, just to make it so abundantly clear, the family has been cleared. So with that being said, that is it for today's episode. Let me know your thoughts and I will see you in the next one. Be safe.
- [48:22]
C
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