Interviewer (1:40)

Okay. Interesting. Mine. Mine fluttered quite a bit. And they say that it means if your eyelids flutter when doing this, you might be more available to suggestion, more open to hypnosis. This is not a given. There's not many scientific studies done on this, so take it with a grain of salt. But it is fascinating. And just like there are things that make someone more easily, more likely to be hypnotized that a lot of hypnotists, when they do those on stage performances, they will look for certain cues in the audience. They will actively pick out someone that they believe is more open to suggestion. Because when you're being hypnotized, they try to tell you that you feel certain ways that you feel like you're floating, that you feel like your two fingers are magnetized and they're pulling towards each other. And you can't let Them separate, they convince you of these things. And just like that, there are personality traits that make it easier for someone to give a false confession. Some people say those two things are almost similar. They work in different ways for different purposes, obviously. But hypnotism, being open to suggestion and false confessions leading someone to believe that something has happened that has not happened are kind of in the same vein, confess to something that you've never done, a false confession. Usually these people have poor memory, high levels of anxiety, low self esteem, low assertiveness, conflict avoidance, and the eagerness to please people. People with these traits combined, they are more easily influenced by authority figures. They're more vulnerable to interrogation pressure. Now you add in the situational factors. They've been left in this interrogation room for many two hours during too many two hours. Sleep deprivation, fatigue, drug alcohol withdrawal, extreme stress. They could easily give a false confession. They could be nudged, pushed, led. It's a very real thing that will mess up so many trials because someone is victimized. Obviously they need to get justice. But if someone claims that they falsely confessed or they actually did falsely confess, that makes it trickier to get justice. And that is exactly what Michelle Martens is saying happened to her. She's like, that was a false confession. She claims that she did not mean a single thing that she said. She takes it off bat. Yeah, she said that her boyfriend Fabian was essaying her 10 year old daughter Victoria. So Michelle's 10 year old daughter is Victoria and Michelle's boyfriend is Fabian. She's saying this adult man was essaying my 10 year old daughter. She says she let it happen because she did derive a sick and twisted pleasure of viewing the heinous acts. She got off on observing. Okay, but that specific night, things were a little bit different. Michelle says her boyfriend Fabian was on top of Victoria essaying her. And Fabian's female cousin was also present in the room and she was joining in on the assault.

Jessica (4:37)

The cousin is.

Interviewer (4:38)

Yeah, the boyfriend's cousin. So Fabian is the boyfriend, Fabian's the boyfriend.

Jessica (4:42)

And how old is the boyfriend and the cousin?

Interviewer (4:44)

Oh, they're both like in their 30s. So not only are we talking child predators, child assault, but incest. The cousin's name is Jessica. And instead of being disgusted by what's going on, Michelle is just watching. She's watching all of this happen to her little 10 year old daughter. And she's asked, okay, but how did they kill her after that assault? Michelle, how did they kill your daughter that night? You were there, you watched it. Michelle is sitting there in Front of these two people, and she's got tears just streaming down her cheeks. You saw it. How did they kill your daughter? A little sob escapes her mouth. By essaying her. Explain that to me. Cause I don't understand. He essayed her so hard that she died. Again, these are direct quotes. He covered her mouth with tape. This is your baby girl, 10 year old Victoria, who is being held down on the bed so that an adult man can r word her. You are the only one that is going to be able to tell us how she died because you were there. You were there watching it. How did she die? She sits in silence, thinking, crying, trying to catch her breath. Fabian's hands were around Fabian. Victoria's mouth and neck because he was on top of Victoria. Okay. When he was done essaying her, was she dead or alive? She wasn't moving. What did they do when they were done essaying your daughter and holding her by the neck? They stabbed her. She grabs a tissue. Almost like this realization dawns on her and she starts crying harder. But the questions don't stop. And then 20 minutes later, you had intimate relations with your boyfriend, did you not? Mm, I did. She admits that she not only watched her daughter get held down and essayed, but 20 minutes later, she had intimate relations with the man that essayed her daughter. Furthermore, she does this thing. She says she seeks out men on PlentyOfFish.com on these dating websites that'll come to her house to essay her kids so that she can watch. And then immediately after, she'll have intimate relations with these men.

Jessica (6:50)

That is wild.

Interviewer (6:52)

She's asked, how are these conversations starting online? How does it start and end with somebody having intimate relations with your child in your apartment? Which, by the way, they use the term intimate relations. And just so you know, anytime someone is being questioned, these types of word usage is very deliberate. You say intimate relations versus our word because it might alienate the person into retrieving and realizing how bad it sounds. So. So they won't say anything more. It sounds too harsh of a word, even though that is the exact crime. She says she knows the signs that men are interested in her kids rather than her. She says, they ask me if I have any kids. I say I have two. And then when they meet with me for the first time, they want to meet my kids too. And Michelle, how did you discover that this was something that you wanted to do? How did you get into it? Was it just something that you wanted to try just to see? I guess I was curious. Was this something that Ever happened to you during your childhood? Not to my knowledge. Within a few hours, sitting in an interrogation room, almost like she's being hypnotized. Michelle Martens tells the authorities that she gets off on inviting men over after meeting them on websites to watch them essay her 8 year old son and her 10 year old daughter, Victoria. She says she only recently stopped because her new boyfriend, Fabian moved in and he was doing all the assaulting himself. He even let his female cousin Jessica move in so she could partake in all of this. All the while, Michelle is watching. That's what she gets off on. But last night, things don't go as planned. As the assault is taking place, Fabian kills Victoria, Jessica holds her down, and Fabian starts dismembering Victoria, severing off her limbs. Then they wrap her in a blanket, throw her in the bathtub and light her on fire. That is exactly how the police find Victoria in the bathtub in flames. Like that's the exact. They find her, then they question Michelle. But that's exactly. It matches up. Victoria was found missing her arms and her internal organs. Her heart and liver were gone.

Jessica (8:55)

Wait, but you say Michelle was having, you know, doing it with Fabian after.

Interviewer (9:02)

The murder, after the severing of her limbs? Yes, it seems to be. It is probably one of the craziest interrogations I've ever seen. But then they find evidence that some of the interrogation clips of what Michelle is saying are not true. So how could Michelle see all of this happening to her daughter when she's not even home at the time that this happens? Her cell data shows that she's been out of the house at the time that this takes place. Which means if that's not true, why did she say that it was? And how much of her statement is a lie? Was she coerced into saying everything? Or is it a half truth, half lie? Because Michelle changes her story multiple times. But that still doesn't change the fact that Victoria was found murdered and dismembered and lit on fire. And there was evidence that she had an std. So what is the truth here? And who did this to her? We would like to thank today's sponsors who have made it possible for Rotten Mango to support the NOMI Network, a nonprofit dedicated to end all human trafficking. They spread awareness, create safe employment opportunities, and provide resources for survivors. This episode's partnerships have also made it possible to support Rotten Mango's growing team and would also like to thank you guys for your continued support as we work on our mission to be worthy advocates as always, full show notes are available@roottenmangopodcast.com. today's case has quite a few mentions of SA, CSA and potentially CSAM and the trafficking of children. It's. It's definitely a bit more graphic in detail than some of our recent cases. So please, if it's too heavy, too intense, take care of yourself. I will see you in the next one. With that being said, let's get started. The Police have a 10 year old that's been murdered. And they have three people that they need to talk to. Two women and one man. The woman named Michelle. She's got this nasty cut between her eyes. Like blood was dripping down in the middle of her face, straight down the top of her nose. It is her daughter Victoria that's been killed. Then you have the man, Fabian. He's got a black eye, he's got a deep gash on his eyebrow. He's Michelle's live in boyfriend. And then we have another woman named Jessica. She's Fabian's cousin who recently moved into Michelle's house. Jessica has a fractured ankle. So these people, they're all injured.

Jessica (11:35)

What?

Interviewer (11:35)

All of them are injured in some way, shape or form, and they don't want to talk about why Victoria was found killed and dismembered in the apartment that they all share. What the hell happened to Victoria? Jessica goes first. She was the one that was left babysitting for most of the day. But before they can even ask questions, Jessica's pissed off. She's pissed off at the cops. I want to know why you're treating me like this. You're being arrested, all right? For murder. Why am I being arrested for murder? There's three other people in that house and you're gonna get me for murder? Like fuck. Being treated like shit. Like this whole f Ing time for something else. This is bullshit. This is bullshit. You're fucking violating my whole fcking rights, dude. For what? For what? Seriously, Go find a motherf ing killer, dude. Go find a motherf ing killer. They tell her that they're gonna take her DNA because they have a warrant. So this is not up for negotiation. And she says, well, the thing is, I live at the house. You know what I mean? My DNA is gonna be all over the house. Earlier that day, officers had been called to unit 808. The situation was pretty chaotic. They had two people outside that claimed to have been attacked. Michelle and Fabian. Both of them had bloody faces. They tell officers Michelle's daughter, 10 year old Victoria, is inside the unit still. They run up to unit 808. A woman with blonde hair opens the door, sees the cop, uniforms, slams the door shut. They're like, what the hell is that? They try slamming the door open. It won't open. They're like, maybe we should kick it down. And as they're contemplating all of this, they hear a scream from the other side of the apartment. The other officers are screaming, and more or less, they're shouting that the crazy lady that just slammed the door in the other officer's face, she jumped off the balcony. This is like three stories stories high. It's not the eighth floor, but it's still pretty high.

Jessica (13:25)

Is she okay? Is she all right?

Interviewer (13:27)

I mean, fate works in very mysterious ways. And the officer is almost to their diabolical amusement. She's not all right. She completely shattered her entire ankle, and now she can no longer run.

Jessica (13:39)

Oh, that's cool.

Interviewer (13:40)

So it works. Yeah, it works. To their benefit. The officers place the woman in handcuffs. They force her to walk herself to the police car. She screaming every step. Feels like someone is shooting her ankle. And she's like, my ankle, my ankle. You shattered it. You shattered it. You guys threw me off the balcony. They're like, don't be dramatic. You jumped off the balcony because you're trying to escape. And second of all, we don't care. This is on the body cam. They force her to walk. They say, I don't care. Keep walking. Walk.

Jessica (14:09)

Wow.

Interviewer (14:11)

It's pretty easy to see from her criminal record that she is not unfamiliar with the police, Both her and her cousin Fabian. You know those pictures where people are like, I took a picture every day and they make a video, and it's just them moving because you could do that with their mugshots. They have so many mug shots. They have been arrested so many times. Probably more mug shots than you have pictures on your Instagram. One of her most recent charges while she was in prison, her cellmate had decided, I'm going to wake up and be the most heinous person ever. Her cellmate decides that she's going to essay another inmate. Jessica helps her by lock cell door behind them and keeping a lookout while her cellmate has her way. In our words, another female inmate. So not the most spectacular person that the police are dealing with right now. And she's only been released from prison for about a week. And here she is, right back in their presence. She explains to them, you guys have the wrong person. You don't even know what you're talking about. You're violating my rights, dude. She explains, yes, okay, she was babysitting Victoria. She couldn't really say no because she was staying at Michelle's house for $50 a month. That's how much she was paying in rent. Although Michelle didn't know that Fabian was taking the $50 a month. And Michelle thought that she was just living there for free. She's babysitting Victoria that day, Fabian and Michelle go out, and, yeah, she was a little bit out of it. Jessica's sitting there, maybe doing some recreational drugs, and she sees this man walk into the apartment. And she's only been there for like a week. She doesn't know what kind of people are in and out of this AP apartment. So she's like, huh, there's a man in here. And he looks at her and he tells her, hey, do you know where? And then insert Fabian's street name, because I guess Fabian's part of a gang. That's what they say. And she's like, no, he's not home right now. He's like, okay. Walks into Victoria's room, violently essays her, kills her, and then tells Jessica, get rid of her body. And if you tell anyone, you're next. Your cousin owes me money. She said it was a well dressed Mexican man. And then the police show up. She's terrified. She had nothing to do with the murder. She just had to dispose of Victoria's body, because what was she gonna do? They're gonna get her next. I mean, she was terrified, and now she's in the back of the squad car with a broken ankle and all. And it's just. It's terrifying. She says, you guys need to go catch the real killer. Side note, the apartment was in shambles, and it's very interesting. So she's claiming that a man walks in essays and kills Victoria. But when you go in, everything is just hectic. There's blood everywhere. There's blood seeping into the carpet. There's evidence that someone tried to clean up the blood inside the bathroom. They find Victoria. Her torso, her head, they're all connected. Her arms have been severed. They were found in a separate plastic bag. Her liver and her heart were taken out. Also found in a separate plastic bag. Her left leg was almost completely severed off. She. The rest of her body that's in the bathtub was wrapped in a blanket and lit on fire. Every single smoke detector in the house was also conveniently taken down. So Jessica's story, it doesn't really add up. Also, what are all these wounds? Sure, Jessica's fractured ankle makes sense. She jumped off the balcony. But why are Michelle and Fabian wounded? Unlock a world of incredible opportunities with Rosetta Stone. That's what it feels like. Whether you're looking to elevate your travel adventures, advance your career, or maybe you just want to watch those K dramas. I saw that meme where you watch a K drama or a C drama. And when you're watching, you're reading the subs. You understand everything that's going on and then you have to take a bite of food and then suddenly you lose because you don't know what's happening because you're not reading the subs. This is your time. You can simply indulge in the joy of learning. Rosetta Stone is here to support you every step of the way. With over 30 years of expertise and millions of happy users, Rosetta Stone is the leader in language learning. Each program is crafted for lasting language retention and immediate pronunciation feedback to prepare you for real world conversations. Don't wait. Unlock your language learning potential now. Rotten Mango listeners can grab Rosetta Stone's lifetime membership for 50% off. That's unlimited access to 25 language courses for life. Visit RosettaStone.com rotten to get started and claim your 50% off today. Don't miss out. Go to RosettaStone.com rotten and start learning today.

Narrator (18:47)

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Interviewer (18:54)

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Narrator (18:57)

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Interviewer (19:00)

I watch her.

Narrator (19:00)

I assume she watches me.

Interviewer (19:02)

There' in the house. Find the leak.

Narrator (19:04)

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Interviewer (19:07)

Who's the suspect?

Narrator (19:09)

Your wife?

Interviewer (19:10)

Would you kill for me?

Narrator (19:11)

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Interviewer (19:51)

They go into Fabian's interrogation room. He says, I did nothing. I didn't even know that Victoria was lit on fire in the apartment. He claims all he knew was he went to sleep, woke up and Jessica, his cousin, is freaking attacking him. He said this was a completely normal night. They came home, they made tacos for dinner. Well, Michelle made tacos. Everybody else ate the tacos, minus Victoria. They thought she was sleeping. That's what he claims. And then eventually, Michelle and Fabian, the couple, they go into the bedroom and they fall asleep around 1:40am they wake up to a pair of eyeballs staring at them, just staring into the depths of their assault. Do you believe in Jesus? He's like, jessica, what are you doing? Why are you talking about Jesus at 1:40 in the morning? You don't even go to church. You just got out of prison. Jessica is standing. I have your phones, by the way. She's holding her hands behind her back, but it looks like she's got more than just their phones. I said, do you believe in Jesus? Michelle wakes up and she says, yeah, I do. Which I don't know why you're responding. Jessica smiles and says, okay, then you first bitch and slams a metal iron over her head. Then goes to Fabian and starts slamming the metal pipe, if you will, down on his head. And Fabian's like, I don't know. I just ran out of the apartment because my cousin is trying to murder me. And then you guys showed up. Then you're telling me that Victoria is dead, dismembered in the apartment. I didn't know that.

Jessica (21:19)

Wait, this happened at 1:40am yeah. Wait, so the police rush there at.

Interviewer (21:24)

1:40Am and they see Michelle and Fabian just wounded everywhere.

Jessica (21:28)

Oh, because they got. Just got attacked by.

Interviewer (21:31)

Yeah. And then they're like, hey, my daughter's still in the unit. Michelle is like, my daughter's still in the unit. Can you go get my daughter? They run up to the unit, Jessica slams the door, she breaks her ankle. They go in, they search the entire place for the 10 year old, and she was found in the bathtub.

Jessica (21:46)

Did Michelle call the police?

Interviewer (21:48)

Fabian went to a neighbor who called the police. Michelle also escaped and went to a different neighbor to call the police.

Jessica (21:54)

What? Okay.

Interviewer (21:56)

Fabian denies knowing anything that has been happening to Victoria. He said he came home and Jessica was like, victoria went to sleep because she had a rough day and I was babysitting all day. And he also says, by the way, I would never do anything to Victoria. He says, I love her and she loves me. Now, to be clear, Victoria knew Fabian for approximately 24 minutes. I mean, maybe a few months. That's being a little dramatic. And most of the time that she knew him, he was likely high, out of his mind on method. I think even saying that she liked him would be a tad bit too generous. But to say that she loved him, I Mean, it's kind of unclear what deluded planet Fabian lives on. Maybe the same one as Stephen Stern's from the Maddie Soto case. But Fabian continues, because how do you know Victoria loved you after living with her mother for, I don't know, two business days? He says, she loved me. You know, she would always. You know what I mean? She would always be like, hey, Fabian. And we'd always smile. But to make matters more alarming, he continues, that's how I am with kids. You know, Victoria's real active. She's real cool. You know what I mean? She's all grown up, you know, for her age, you know? No, we don't know. And that's very alarming. She's 10. How can she be all grown up? We don't know. But he further continues that he absolutely was not involved. He says, again, she loved me. I loved her. I showed up at the apartment after running errands with Michelle. We ate tacos. I went to sleep, and then I got attacked. That's pretty much it. Eventually, the police crack down, and they say, there. There's no way that's what happened. Because you. At least you're telling me someone right there, and this is not, like, the most soundproof apartment building. You're hearing things. You can hear your neighbor from the next unit over. Somebody is severing the limbs off of another person. And you don't hear. Hear anything. You don't hear a ruckus, nothing. Someone's going around, getting a ladder, standing up on chairs, taking off the smoke detectors. You don't hear a beep, a single sound. He says, you know what? I did see some dismembering. He says, I seen Jessica cut her up, but Jessica was threatening me. Now he's saying, I don't know how Victoria died. I just saw my cousin dismembering her. He says, she just kept threatening me that I'm gonna get killed just like she's gonna kill Michelle. So I seen Jessica do it, okay? I was scared for retaliation, okay? She just got out of prison. I didn't want her to come for me and threaten my family. But I did not help her dismember the body. I did not. I just saw her stabbing at her, cutting her, like weird. Like crazy. She was, like, going crazy. Like, Jesus told me to do this. Like, saying weird things like that me and Michelle were stopping Jessica. No, no, no, stop. But we didn't stop it because we were scared. The authorities say. I mean, it needs to be explained because she couldn't Be doing all of that by herself. She. The strength that he says, no, no, no, she was doing all that by herself. Her strength.

Jessica (24:51)

He said that he came home and he saw his cousin, you know, dismembering the daughter. And. And then they went to sleep.

Interviewer (25:01)

Yes.

Jessica (25:02)

Yeah, okay, yeah, that makes so much sense.

Interviewer (25:06)

Yeah, exactly. And he says, no, no, her strength is real crazy. Okay, but that still doesn't make sense. Why would Jessica even attack you that night then? None of this is making any sense. Authorities go back to Jessica and they say, so why did you attack your cousin and Michelle? And she says, well, they were all gonna blame it on me. I knew they were plotting it. See, this man came in, this well dressed man came in, essayed and killed Victoria and then left. And then was like, I'm gonna kill you. If you do anything, I'm gonna kill you. So you gotta dispose of Victoria's body. And then, you know, Michelle and Fabian come home. I tell them what happened, and they say, okay, well, we just have to dispose of her body. But I felt like they were gonna pit her on me, so I just had to get rid of them too. So I was gonna try to kill them. What? So she attacks them in the middle of the night, and then the police are called. These are Jessica and Fabian stories. For Michelle. The police have a little bit more hope because this is still her daughter at the end of the day. So if anybody has any incentive to come clean just to get some sort of justice and let Victoria rest in peace, it might be Michelle. In front of Michelle, there's a female officer wearing a plaid shirt sitting across from her. Another male officer is sitting a little bit off in the corner. He looks distant, but he's fully engaged. The officer in front of Michelle, she reaches her hand out and they're holding it across the table. Her voice is kind of nurturing. Michelle, what did you guys decide to do with your daughter? With Victoria, your baby girl? This is your 10 year old daughter, Victoria. What did you guys decide to do? They put her in the bathtub. Okay, what happened then? You were there, you saw and you watched. Is that right? Yeah. They said if I said anything. They kept threatening me that if I said anything, that I'll be the next one. Jessica stabbed her in the stomach. Michelle starts crying. She explains that she doesn't really know what was going on. All she knew was that when she got home, she thought Victoria had gone into her room to sleep. She ate dinner with her boyfriend Fabian, and Fabian's cousin Jessica, who she barely knows, who Just was staying with her. And afterwards she was heading to bed when she sees Jessica stabbing Michelle's little daughter, Victoria. Michelle is like, I saw Jessica stabbing my kid in the stomach. Then Jessica holds down Victoria's arms and Fabian walks over with a knife and starts cutting off Victoria's arms. By this point, Victoria is already deceased. You're saying Jessica was stabbing her in the stomach? Why? I don't know. It's just like they were taking turns. So you guys or you watch, but Jessica and Fabian cut your daughter up. Victoria, they cut her arms off, they cut her leg off, they cut her from her collarbone to her belly button, just down the middle. Victoria, your daughter, they cut her from here to here. And you just watch, right? And when you saw this, you didn't call the cops because you were afraid because you had drugs in the house, that and that they were going to kill me right there on the spot. And what did Jessica tell you about how Victoria died? She told me she didn't know how she died. Michelle goes through multiple variations of events that night. At first she says she has no clue how Victoria, her 10 year old daughter, ends up dead. She states that when she got home, she saw Victoria alive and well and thought she went to her room to sleep. Then she changes the story and says, I actually never saw her alive and well. I thought she was just asleep in her room. Then she states that Victoria took meth that was left out on the coffee table and then died of an overdose. And then they were all freaking out. So she changes it multiple times. Her first few variations of the story include Victoria dying and being dismembered by Jessica and Fabian. She doesn't do anything because she's terrified to call the police. They're threatening her. She can't do anything. She just goes to sleep until she wakes up with Jessica in her face, asking her if she believes in God. And then slamming a tire iron between her eyes. That's what she says. But what's unsettling is that in these variations, she says that after she watches these two, her boyfriend Fabian and Fabian's cous Jessica dismember little Victoria, the police ask her, what did you do right after you saw that? I went to the kitchen and I was getting ready to make dinner, so I made the tacos. And then Fabian took over after he was finished with Victoria. The police have to get this straight. After you guys cut the arms off of Victoria, cut her leg off and wrapped her in a blanket and put her in the bathtub. Right. Then you went and Made dinner. What did Fabian and Jessica do? I don't know. They were acting like nothing ever happened. She said Fabian and Jessica just start cleaning up blood while she makes dinner. Okay, so you go and make dinner and they are cleaning. What happens after that? Once I did the dinner, I go in my room and I eat. Okay, so you eat and I only ate like one taco. Well, because you were probably sick to your stomach. Yeah, so then I put the other one in the fridge. The police are not happy with Michelle's version of events. There's just too much missing. Like, even you look confused. And the police are looking confused. Like none of this even makes sense. Like what you're saying. This train of thought, these trains of actions, these don't feel normal. Too many things are missing. What do you mean you're making dinner for everyone? I'm sorry. You only had one taco. How did you go to sleep after this? How do you fall asleep? To her defense, she says, we had tacos with beef and potatoes and sour cream. Okay, she was like, now stating all of this. But they don't even just go to sleep. According to Michelle, per this specific interview, she states that after dinner, after watching her daughter get dismembered, she and Fabian have intimate relations. The authorities come in and out of this interrogation room because they keep going back, they keep getting more intel. They go to Fabian, they come in and out of Michelle's interrogation room, and when they come back the second time, they're angry. The female officer sits down. By the way, I'm saying female officer because there happens to be one female officer and one male officer in the room. It's not because I think I have to put a woman's gender. Anyway, I saw some people getting upset about some of that discourse, but it just makes it easier to differentiate. Michelle, I'm gonna ask you one question and it's a very serious question. Who was r wording your daughter? Who was essaying your daughter? Who was it Michelle? Because you knew about it. Michelle looks confused. Her eyebrows are raised. That was my ex boyfriend. That's why I got rid of him. Your ex boyfriend was assaulting your 8 year old son as well? Not that I know of. Because my son is barely with me. He's mostly with his dad. The officer looks her straight in the eye. When did you find out that Fabian and Jessica were being, quote, sexually active with your daughter? When did you find out? And be honest, not too long ago. So how much meth were they giving her so that they would essay her? So now they're saying, we know that Fabian and Jessica were giving Victoria methamphetamines to calm her down so that they could essay her. Michelle says quite a few times they would just sprinkle it in her mouth. How did she die? Last night while she was being assaulted. How did she die? The meth. No, meth is not what killed her. The meth probably contributed to it. We know for a fact the meth is not what killed her. How did she die, Michelle? Okay, you know what? Let's go back. When did you find out that Fabian was having intimate relations with your daughter Victoria? How long ago? Just recently? Maybe a couple days ago. Two days ago. And when did you find out that Jessica was also sexually abusing your daughter? Were they doing this together? Yes. How did you find out about it? Did you walk in on it? It's okay. I need to know. Michelle starts crying. Yeah. They were both on top of her. They were both on your daughter. So two days ago, you find out that they are wording your daughter. Am I right? Okay, so how would they do it? When I'm out at work? But how was last night the first time that she had meth? As far as I know. As far as I've seen. So you watch them give her meth. How did they give her the meth when she is sitting on the couch watching tv? And does it make it easier for her, or does it make it easier for them so she doesn't fight back? What does the meth do to your daughter? It calms her down. It calms her down so that they can have intimate relations with her? Yeah. Okay. So while they're having intimate relations with her, how do they kill her? And I don't want to hear because of the meth again. How did they kill her, Michelle? How did they kill Victoria? By stabbing her. Are you guessing? Are you telling me that because you were in the room while she was being sexually assaulted, you were there? Did you participate? No. You just watched because you were there. You were there when your daughter was being sexually assaulted. You were there. Where were you? In my bedroom. And where were Fabian and Jessica? I thought they were out on the balcony having a cigarette, but they weren't. How did you participate? I don't think that you assaulted your daughter. Did you help hold her down? No. You and I appreciate you being honest about Jessica and Fabian and what they've done. The only thing you're not being honest about is your involvement. So when Jessica and Fabian were in the room sexually assaulting your daughter, what Part did you take in the act? I let them do it, which I shouldn't have. Were you having intimate relations with Fabian or Jessica while they were having intimate relations with your daughter? No. Did you have intimate relations with Fabian after he had intimate relations with your daughter? Yeah. She also confesses that during the past year alone, she's had multiple men come over to force feed her nine year old daughter methamphetamine's zquil to calm her down so that they could sa her while she watches. She facilitates and watches all the assaults. Many times these men would sa her children and then immediately have intimate relations with her afterwards. I mean, to fulfill some sort of depraved, only existing in the deep, dark pits of hell type of fantasy. And she says Fabian was one of those depraved humans that moved in solely for Victoria. And he and his cousin Jessica were both essaying Victoria that night. They fed her meth to keep her more compliant because it, quote, calms her down. And then as Fabian was assaulting Victoria, Jessica was watching on the side and holding Victoria down. Fabian covers Victoria's mouth and neck and manually strangles her until she dies during the assault. Afterwards, they dismember Victoria and threaten Michelle. That is what Michelle is saying. But that still doesn't explain why she's cooking dinner, why she's having intimate relations with Fabian, why she only eats one taco, why she goes to sleep. What does she have to say about that? She just says, I should have stopped it. That's her response. But so much of this story doesn't even make sense. The police keep pushing and they're able to elicit all of these very specific details from Michelle. They ask her, where did Fabian reach the destination, if you will, on her stomach. Was your daughter saying anything during all of this? She's saying, stop, stop. What was Jessica saying? Just shut up. What was Fabian saying? He wasn't really saying much. He was just doing that. And you just stood there and you watched? You just let them do this to your daughter? I should have stopped it. How long after he did this to your daughter did he have intimate relations with you? 15 to 20 minutes. How long was Victoria alive after she was r worded or was she dead after she was r worded? Did they kill her then during the r wording? I need to know. Yes. When they r worded her, were you clothed? I was clothed. Was Jessica clothed or was she naked? She had her top off. But Fabian, you said, had his shorts on with his private parts exposed. Yeah, he had his pants Pulled down, but no shirt on. Was Victoria naked? Yeah. Fabian took off her pants and Jessica took off her shirt. The police ask where Victoria's underwear went. Which side note? The search of the house does show that her underwear was found inside of a laundry basket with blood on them. And she says that it's because Fabian fully essayed her daughter and that's why they had blood. They keep questioning her. How long have you been essaying your daughter? I never essayed my daughter. How long have you been inviting men into your house to essay your daughter? The only two that I know of is David and these two. Okay, but you allowed it? I kicked David out when I found out. And then these two. What did David do to your daughter? He was like trying to kiss her on the lips and stuff like that. He tried to put his fingers down there. Did he r word your daughter? No. I took her and got her tested and it all came out negative. And did you report it to the police? Yes, I did. Michelle, you have been bringing men to your apartment to use your daughter and sexually assault your daughter. This is not the first time that this has happened. This is not the first time your daughter has been r worded. You are allowing men to have intimate relations with your daughter and then in turn having intimate relations with you. Help me understand that. What did you get out of that? Is this a turn on for you? The reason we're sitting here today, Michelle, is that it went a little bit further than it has ever gone before. This time she died. You weren't ready for these types of animals that these people were. And it went further than you anticipated. So how many times did what happened last night, minus her dying? How many times have you watched that? You know that Fabian and Jessica had intimate relations with your daughter? Like three times. They go on to keep pressing her and she mentions that they had it almost every single night since Fabian moved in. He was essaying Victoria. Then every single night that Jessica moved in, both of them were essaying Victoria. Prior to that, her ex boyfriend, David was essaying Victoria.

Jessica (38:42)

Wait, so are you saying that her stories just keep on changing? Because she said three times, right?

Interviewer (38:48)

Yes.

Jessica (38:48)

She say, no, David didn't do it, or whatever.

Interviewer (38:51)

Like, is it like just her story keeps on changing? Yes, but it's very interesting because a lot of netizens are conflicted on how they feel about this false confession. Some people believe that it's a completely false confession, but most netizens believe that the essay part might be true.

Jessica (39:10)

Oh, like all. All these specific.

Interviewer (39:13)

Yes, like there's maybe some truths in some of these lies.

Jessica (39:17)

Yeah. Yeah.

Interviewer (39:18)

And then even with.

Jessica (39:20)

But what is a lie right now? We don't know.

Interviewer (39:22)

Right? We don't know. We do know that she was essayed at least once prior to. Prior to her death and likely the day of her death, but we don't know how many times by how many people. For example, the autopsy for Victoria was rough considering she's been so badly dismembered. After her passing, both of her arms had been cut off and severed. Her leg was partially severed. Her torso had been cut from the collarbone down towards her belly button. Her heart, parts of her liver were removed, and they were all placed in separate plastic bags. And some of them are placed inside of a laundry basket in a separate plastic container. They find Victoria's arms and her heart. And for her cause of death, the autopsy reads, Ms. Victoria Martens died as a result of manual strangulation. The manner of her death is best classified as homicide. There's a few other things in the autopsy that we'll bring up, but it's not definitive that she was essayed. But there are a few things. Like she had blood in her private regions. There was slight tearing of her rectum. There were all these things that made it seem like, okay, perhaps she was essayed. Maybe it wasn't a. The way a lot of people describe it. In, like, the. Even if you go into the police reports, which we foiad for this, it's not. They say maybe it was perhaps not full penetration, but there was essay involved because there wasn't as much tearing to indicate. So it's just.

Jessica (40:56)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Interviewer (40:57)

It's very difficult to say so with this. This confession immediately, right off the bat, all three of them are thrown in prison. Naturally, they're thrown in jail. They're charged with Victoria's murder. Which. Side note, Michelle is so shocked when she's charged with her own daughter's murder. It's kind of crazy.

Jessica (41:16)

Okay, so first. First thing is. Seems like all three of them told a different story.

Interviewer (41:21)

Yes.

Jessica (41:21)

Of the night.

Interviewer (41:22)

Yes.

Jessica (41:22)

But regardless, just based on three separate stories, they are all charged.

Interviewer (41:26)

Yes. Because also, I mean, she's found in the bathtub. It just doesn't make sense that they don't know what's going on.

Jessica (41:32)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so. And when you say she's so shocked.

Interviewer (41:35)

Yeah. Michelle is looking at one of the detectives like he just betrayed her. And he straight up tells her. I mean, the fact that you're shocked that you're going to jail means that I can't even have a conversation with you about these charges. Like, it's. You are not comprehending anything. Somehow, Fabian remains confident that he will be getting out. Jessica, on the other hand, is getting pissed off by all of this. In one recorded jailhouse phone call, Jessica tells her friend, I wish I knew what the fuck I was getting myself into, dog. She claimed she was not on meth that night. She says, I wish I would have been fucked up. I wasn't even like. I was like, fucking, no, I'm not doing no shots. And then, you know, this happened. The friend is like, and then your cousin, bro, what the fuck was he thinking? I don't know, dude. I don't get high to go fuck, dude. I get high to tweak. To which Jessica is also on the phone with her mom. And her mom is clearly also unhinged. She tells Jessica on the phone, maybe God had you there to expose Fabian. I think that's what it is. Fabian, on the other hand, is talking on the phone with a girlfriend of his. I don't know how he has a girlfriend, but he has a girlfriend. He's on the phone with his girlfriend.

Jessica (42:50)

I thought Fabian's girlfriend is.

Interviewer (42:52)

I mean, after that confession, I think they broke up and he made a new girlfriend whilst behind bars. He says, I know I'm going home. I'm not even worried. Sometimes I just get discouraged because I'm still here. I already knew I was going to be able to go home. I just didn't think it was going to take this long. Fabian and his mom also just like Jessica and her mom, they blame the other cousins. Fabian's mom says about Jessica, it's awful that you can't trust everybody, but you can't, son. You can't. He agrees. You can't. I know. You know, especially if that someone is from your family. You know what I mean? You would think that you could. You know what I mean?

Jessica (43:29)

That is wild. They're all related.

Interviewer (43:32)

Yeah.

Jessica (43:32)

And their moms all behave in this way. And the moms are probably, what, siblings?

Interviewer (43:37)

They're either like, in. It could be, you know, the daddy, but still, they're all related. Fabian tells his mom that regardless when he gets out, he's gonna take her to the salon so that she could get a massage. And he even tells his girlfriend, soon, I'll be home, guys, soon. I love you guys. So why the hell do both of them think that they're gonna be home anytime soon? June 29, 2018. This is two years after Victoria's murder. The new DA, Raul Torres, he takes office and he holds a press conference. So by this point, since 2016, this was one of the more high profile cases in Albuquerque, New Mexico. Everyone and their entire genetic lineage at this point believed that Fabian and Jessica had essayed Victoria while Michelle was watching, then dismembered her, and then lit her on fire. But the DA says the authorities fumbled the ball. They say, first, we found no meth in Victoria's system. Part of the story was that they force fed Victoria meth to calm her down so that they could assay her. There was no method.

Jessica (44:42)

So from 2016, they believe the truth. Or what happened was Michelle's interrogation. Right, but why did she, the cousins start hitting them in the middle of the night if that happened?

Interviewer (44:55)

She claims Michelle is lying. It was a man that did this. An unknown man that did this, that.

Jessica (45:02)

That.

Interviewer (45:03)

That essayed and killed Victoria. And then the dismembering. Yeah, it seems like Jessica and Fabian did that.

Jessica (45:09)

Okay, but why is Jessica attacking them in the middle of the night?

Interviewer (45:13)

Because he. She felt like her cousin was not gonna believe the other man's story and just blame it all on Jessica because she was technically the only one home with Victoria.

Jessica (45:22)

Okay. She's trying to kill them.

Interviewer (45:24)

Yeah. She's like, I know. It's very hard. I think, like, the more you try to reason with their logic, the more you're gonna be confused because there is no reasoning with their logic. So she's like, oh, I didn't kill her. I would never kill someone. This random man came in and killed her, but because now everyone's gonna think her, I have to kill two more people to make sure that they don't think that I killed her. That's her logic. It's like the most crazy logic. But the authorities say, first of all, there is no meth in Victoria's system. Second of all, Fabian and Michelle were not home during Victoria's time of death. They might have been home during the dismemberment. It's very hard to say because it's a very closed window. But they were not home when Victoria was killed. Third of all, they found partial DNA. A unknown male DNA on the back of Victoria. This could be saliva, it could be sweat. It doesn't seem to be any sort of male fluids. It seems like saliva or sweat, but it's a partial DNA. And they ran it through the system. They can't find a match.

Jessica (46:26)

That's crazy.

Interviewer (46:27)

And Fabian's DNA was not on Victoria that day. So they say this version of Event that Michelle gave cannot be true. It cannot be true. He says, I recognize that these revelations are not consistent with the public's perception of what happened to Victoria Martens, but I want to share this information with you to help the community understand where this case is going and ultimately assist in the apprehension of everyone involved in this horrific crime. Right now, the only suspect to Victoria's murder is the unknown male DNA. All three of them. Their charges get decreased from murder to child abuse and like tampering with evidence. And Jessica obviously assault, aggravated assault, that's crazy. And everyone freaks out. Now Michelle's attorney jumps on this and states the interrogation, the confession was false. It was a false confession. Michelle's attorney states Michelle does not function at the same level most of us do. These are his quotes. She spent most of her life saying things to people. Please. So if you ask her something, she's going to respond in a way that she thinks that you like. He states that she confessed due to her people pleasing pushover personality traits and the fact that she has a lower than normal iq. She has a hard time saying no or asserting herself. One person that allegedly used to work with Michelle wrote online, as someone who worked in retail with Michelle 11 years ago, I can vouch that she has a pretty low IQ. I would estimate it's around 90. Very simple minded. To which some netizens, they watch the interrogation footage and they believe, yeah, this seems like a false confession. Everything is kind of being spoon fed to her. So they'll insinuate, no, there's no way that happened because you were in the room. And then her story evolves from there. It seems like she's taking whatever they're saying and then adding upon it or saying yes, you're actually right or let me change that, you're right, this was what happened. They're saying it feels like she's leading all the questions. The female detective, she's holding her hand, guiding her to say all of these things. Some people say that they're almost following an instruction manual to the T on how to elicit a false confession. They're holding her hand, they're comforting her, they're putting her guard down. Mother to mother, they're firmly re guiding her to new answers. When they don't accept the ones that she's given, they consistently say, why are you lying? No, I don't want to hear it. You're lying to us. No, you're lying. Which I will say watching it, it is not the most aggressive interrogation I've seen. I would like to say that Maddie Soto's, the Jennifer Soto interrogation is more aggressive than this one. This is not that aggressive at all. In fact, it's pretty soft. But I can see how people are pointing out these leading questions. The level of it wasn't particularly shocking in the aggression, but maybe the words that they were using were a little more leading.

Jessica (49:24)

So you're saying nothing in this tape can be used against her? Like everything she said was being fed, like she. Like everything she said was not true. She didn't know anything or what was.

Interviewer (49:36)

I think the general sentiment is that she is a heinous mother, she is likely doing meth, she's bringing in all these strange men into her house because she does seem to be obsessed with boyfriends when they talk to neighbors. She's obsessed with boyfriends, does not kid her. Put her kids first. Does not value the safety of her kids. I mean, you don't bring in a man. Fabian, she met on plenty of fish.com, a dating website, moved him in after a month of talking to him online with her two kids. Eight year old Matthew was not in the house. He was at his dad's house when all this happened, thankfully. But she's a very bad mom. At one point, Victoria was sexually assaulted. She does have hpv. She does seem like she had gone through a lot of trauma. However, there's no proof that she was online trying to look for men to assault her kids. In fact, every time someone assaulted her kids, she would call the police.

Jessica (50:31)

She would call the police.

Interviewer (50:33)

That's where a lot of conspiracies happened. So her ex boyfriend had tried to kiss Victoria and tried to touch her private parts. She kicked him out of the house and called the police. The police came and told her straight up, he tried to kiss her is not a crime because he's just trying. Like attempting to kiss a child is not a crime. And the police did nothing. So now a lot of people believe that the police are almost covering up for themselves because they think that if this goes into discovery and the attorney, Michelle's defense attorney comes out and is like, look at everything Michelle did. And then look at this interrogation. They're leading her to all this. They could be in a lot of big trouble. So they're getting ahead of it and saying this was a false confession. Those two officers are crazy for that. But the system is not broken. Don't look at the system. These two officers are just the bad ones. They led her to a false confession. Don't look at us. Because prior to this, in the Past year, she had called CPS like six times to report. We don't know the exact reports because those are all closed investigations. And she didn't go through a trial where that was put into evidence. However, it just seems, it seems like she was calling cps. She does keep putting her children in dangerous situations, but she also then will call CPS and the police when something happens. So it's very confusing. And I do think that if it had been anyone, not Michelle, like, look at Fabian and Jessica. They don't succumb to the interrogation tactics. I didn't see it as like, so alarming. But that's also what's so insidious about false confessions. Most people, when they look at it, they're like, well, I would never say anything, but it takes a very specific person in a very specific environment for them to falsely confess to something. It was pretty insidious. Like if there are so many people who only saw the interrogation tape, did not do any research into the case, they don't think that that was a false confession. They just think like, she's the world's worst mom and she might as well be. She could be. I'm not debating that. I think she's. Honestly, I think she could stand to be in jail for the rest of her life. I think that would be great because she still let this happen to her daughter. I think that makes her despicable. I think she's bringing men around, that she's doing meth, she's exposing her children to this. She's putting her own frivolous, shitty dating life above her own kids. And I think that's really gross and vile. And I think that she could be in jail for a very long time. But I do think that the police were asking very leading questions.

Jessica (53:10)

So what does that mean then? Does that mean we will never find out what happened? Because what a, you know, not only.

Interviewer (53:17)

Will we never find out what will happen, all their charges got decreased because initially all of them were charged with murder. And even without this false confession, I think every single one of those three would have been charged with harsher crimes because ultimately, at the end of the day, there is a deceased child inside their home, inside the apartment. Our state has changed a lot in the last 140 years. We know because MultiCare has been here guided by a single purpose. Making our communities healthier. That comes from making courageous decisions, partnering with local communities to grow programs and services and expanding healthcare access to those who need it most. Together, we're building a healthier future. Learn more@mycare.org.

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Interviewer (55:20)

And it's just led to a lot of debates online. So the debates go. Something along the lines of one comment will read, major props to the detectives. Some of the questions asked were so depraved and crazy, there is no way I could listen to her without choking the life from her. What an absolute monster. The officer showed great restraint, to which someone comments back. They actually fucked the whole thing up. And this was considered a false confession. The evidence did not match the story either. I don't know if it was the meth use or what. But she just like agreed to all their suggestions. To which another person responds, how is that their fault though? She chose to go along with the story. That made her look even worse. She's a monster either way. But how is it their fault that she would wasn't being honest, that she wasn't there? Which others agree. And someone else even says, I don't think this was a completely false confession. Saying like, maybe she wasn't there the day that Victoria died. She probably saw Victoria get dismembered. But maybe the assaults were taking place because it just the amount of detail she was giving. Now, others would argue that in false confessions you could give a lot of details. So it's very tricky. And I think the fact that this is being called a false confession, you know how we want the world to be very black and white. So when we think of false confessions, we think of innocent people who say things that they never did and they're actually innocent. And that makes us want to raise awareness for false confessions. But what happens? Because I'm sure These are most of the false confessions when it's a very gray area. She is a shit person, and I think she's horrible. But also, maybe this is a false confession. Like, how does that make people feel?

Jessica (56:54)

Yeah. And also Fabian and Jessica, right?

Interviewer (56:56)

Yes.

Jessica (56:58)

Somebody killed her. Killed her and they dismembered the body.

Interviewer (57:03)

Yes.

Jessica (57:04)

Like, that's beyond, you know, like.

Interviewer (57:07)

Yeah. So they think that morally this was not a false confession. They think that morally she is as corrupt as she is in the interrogation. Maybe those exact things did not happen the way that she's saying, but there must be some truth to her lies is what netizens believe. Morally, she's horrendous. Legally. The officers did say some things and do some things that could lead to a jury questioning if the confession could be valid or not. And with the evidence not matching up.

Jessica (57:37)

I think it just really sucks that you're saying that now. So the case is closed.

Interviewer (57:43)

Yes.

Jessica (57:43)

It cannot be reinvested.

Interviewer (57:45)

Well, her murder. No one has been charged with her murder yet. So someone could be charged with her murder, but what are the odds that they're gonna find a match to the DNA? Yeah.

Jessica (57:57)

Are you saying that they are going back to the original story from Jessica, like a stranger came to the house and essayed and killed her?

Interviewer (58:05)

Yes, but that doesn't make sense either. That doesn't make sense either. That's why people think. A lot of netizens think the authorities are trying to cover up all their. A lot of netizens think the authorities were called consistently to check on Victoria. They don't protect Victoria. They don't do anything about it. They say, hey, this grown man tried to kiss your kid. Sorry, that's not a crime. They do nothing. Then Victoria ends up getting murdered. They feel like they could also be on the line for it. So they just spin this. Maybe there's a lot of heightened emotions. They go in, they see the crime scene. They need a story as crazy as the crime scene. They elicit this crazy story from Michelle, and it's like, hey, don't look at anything we've done. Look at what Michelle did. Which is exactly what all of New Mexico does for two years. And then a new DA comes in. And around that time, Albuquerque Police Department was going through some stuff where there were multiple cases of eliciting false confessions. So they thought, let's get ahead of this, because if this goes to trial, it's probably not gonna work in our favor. A lot of shit is gonna get dug up and talked about and debated by Michelle's attorneys, by Fabian's attorneys, by everybody's attorneys. So let's just get ahead of this and say this was a false confession. We're gonna charge them with this and then give Michelle and Jessica plea deals. That is the conspiracy that a lot of netizens have. I'm not saying that the Albuquerque Police department did anything. I'm just saying it is a little alarming when CPS does nothing to these types of phone calls. One of the reasons that netizens don't believe that Fabian and Michelle had anything to do with the deaths, which, by the way, again, me saying that Michelle had nothing to do with Victoria's death. Like, I will never in my life defend a woman like Michelle Martens. Like, never in my life. I think it would be best for society if she is locked away for a very long time. I don't even know if you can rehabilitate someone that does that to their own children, that lets them, puts them in such dangerous situations. What kind of rehabilitation can you do that's your own offspring? Like, you don't even care about them. How can you care about anything? So a lot of netizens believe Michelle and Fabian were not involved in Victoria's death because they were the ones calling the police. Like they went to the neighbors when they were attacked by Jessica to have the police called. Sure, Michelle. Maybe the elevator does not go all the way up is what some netizens are saying. However, Fabian, he has been in prison like five bajillion times. Would he really risk it? Usually people that are in and out of prison to that level, they avoid law enforcement like it is the next tsunami that's going to hit. They don't call law enforcement ever. They never get them involved because with their record, law enforcement is never going to see them as a victim. They're never going to say, oh, I'm so sorry you were attacked. They're going to be like, you probably did something, and we're going to search your entire house for drugs, so we're going to lock you up. Again, he would not call unless he genuinely felt like he was just being attacked out of nowhere. And he had nothing to do with Victoria's death. Didn't even know she was dead.

Jessica (61:11)

But he did also say that he saw Jessica dismembering the body.

Interviewer (61:16)

So I don't know what's going on exactly. So netizens are just going back and forth. I'm just repeating netizen sentiments now. The neighbors are the ones that called the police. And again, they did not call because they saw smoke billowing out of the unit. Even though Victoria had just recently been lit on fire in the bathtub. They don't see any smoke yet. They call because Fabian is like slamming on their doors. And authorities do note netizens who also believe again, Fabian and Michelle are not involved. This is just a netizen theory. This is not my personal belief. They believe that Michelle and Fabian are not involved. And authorities even do note that Fabian was involved in a gang related fight two days prior. I just want to say I think gangs, it has like the cartel effect in the sense of like I think gangs are really dangerous. Same with any sort of organized crime anywhere. They, they take lives, they're very dangerous. But this doesn't really seem like you can't just say gangs and then put this kind of crazy crime on them. A lot of netizens are like, yeah, gangs are really bad. Gangs do some crazy stuff. I've never heard of a gang go into the apartment SA and kill a 10 year old girl that has no biological relation to the person that they're up upset with and then leave. Like it just, they're like, I don't know in what world a gang does this.

Jessica (62:38)

Yeah. So the connection is loose.

Interviewer (62:41)

Yeah. And then Jessica saying like he was a well dressed Mexican man. Then everyone's like, like it just feels very fictional. Like even the act itself is fictional. And then she's describing him as like organized crime mafia gang leader. So it's like none of this is adding up.

Jessica (63:03)

Whoa.

Interviewer (63:05)

Now one comment reads, yeah, mom and boyfriend weren't home. I don't think they were involved in the assault and murder. Honestly, still not the greatest. People should not have left her with Jessica. But yeah, I think it was Jessica and some unknown man. Another netizen brings up what is the likelihood that an unidentified male comes into the house essays and murders a 10 year old girl on her birthday. Which by the way, the next day was Victoria, Victoria's birthday, 10th birthday. All the while an adult is present who is too high on meth to properly recognize and identify the perpetrator or stop the crime from happening. It doesn't make any sense. Which is the next theory. There is an unknown man that essayed and killed Victoria, but he was not some elusive mafia member in a well dressed suit that came in looking for Fabian. He was invited in by Jessica. Netizens speculate that Jessica might have sold Victoria for drugs, that she asked her drug dealer to come over and he was willing to participate in some grotesque acts against humanity. In exchange for drugs. He will give her the drugs and he will do what he wants with Victoria. This seems like the more plausible theory because there have been cases where mothers themselves have sold their children in exchange for drugs. So it seems like the only difference in this theory versus the story that Jessica gave is that Jessica invites this man in and he is not an unknown aggressor. With that, people start branching off in that theory. Maybe he gave her the drugs and then left. And then Jessica realizes Victoria is going to tell someone about it, so she kills Victoria and then dismembers her. Or maybe in the process of essaying Victoria, he kills Victoria and then leaves and now Jessica is left to panic and clean up after him. I guess. So there are two branches of that theory and a lot of people think this makes more sense because consider this, knowing Fabian, I don't think that he would care at all if Victoria was essayed or killed. I don't think he cares. She was essayed and killed. Likely likely essayed, killed. He doesn't seem to care. Like it doesn't really face him. If a gang member wants to come in and hurt Fabian, this is not the way to do it. Fabian also has kids of his own that stay with the children's mother. This just doesn't make sense. And if the point would be to frame Fabian for Victoria's murder in sa, that wouldn't make sense. Because if he owes the gang money, which is what Jessica's story is, him being in jail does not help the gang. Others believe there is no unknown man. And if there is an unknown man like that partial DNA, it could have just been from something else else. It doesn't mean that whoever did this had anything to do with actually essaying and killing Victoria. Some netizens, a lot of netizens think that this was solely on Jessica. Clearly Jessica was saying some crazy things. She was like, do you believe in God? She was talking about Jesus. She's high on meth, she's taking out the smoke detectors. She's unhinged. She kills Victoria then dismembers her. I think the part that some netizens feel wary about this conspiracy is the essay part. However, you have to remember Jessica was charged with abetting, like helping someone essay someone in prison. So it's not far fetched. One comment writes, jessica Kelly scares me, dude. She is legitimately in the head. I think she is solely responsible. She's a pedo. Another comment reads, I don't think Michelle and Fabian were involved in the assault and murder. Honestly, still not the greatest. People shouldn't have left her with Jessica. But I definitely think it was just Jessica. I always thought it was a little weird that Jessica attacked the other two while they were in bed, and by then, the apartment was already on fire. And after that, Jessica ran away from the police while the other two voluntarily went to the police. I think it was just Jessica. Now, if you go through the initial reports, incident reports, along with the autopsy, there's a few things that stand out. Victoria does have an std, which the authorities have stated she likely contracted it a year prior to her death because she was essayed a year prior. So she has been essayed. And I think this is why I personally believe that regardless of the false confession, Michelle deserves to burn in the depths of hell, because after her daughter is essayed, she just still lets these random men move in to her home and then leaves them, like, gives them free access to her children. And a lot of netizens believe the time of her death, Victoria was likely essayed. The initial incident report states that there was bruising around the child's neck, possible signs of strangulation. The child's undergarments were locked inside the residence in a garbage can. Her private parts were soiled with dark blood. And one part of her autopsy reads there was evidence of perimortem penetrating trauma to the rectum, including a posterior tear and abrasion. Perimortem means at or near the time of death. Trauma there does not automatically indicate SA has taken place, but given everything else, it's definitely unwise to rule it out completely. Additionally, I looked into it. I thought maybe the way that they were trying to manipulate her body to dismember and sever her limbs, it doesn't seem like that would cause that type of terror. Additionally, she has, quote, several blunt injuries that involve both the private area and the rectum. And she may not have had meth in her system. Michelle said this during her false confession, but she did have high levels of ethanol in her system. Alcohol. Now, this is where things get a little bit tricky. The body can create ethanol in the liver post mortem after death, but the level of ethanol in Victoria is quite significant. And if she had consumed that level, she would have been pretty intensely, cognitively and physically impaired. But the fact that she has ethanol in her system does not mean that she consumed it prior to death. She could have produced it post mortem. But the autopsy does state, in an alcohol naive person, this level of alcohol could cause cognitive and physical impairment. So perhaps they believe it was Enough to raise a lot. Again, there's no pure evidence that she was essayed the night of her death, but that doesn't mean that she wasn't. And it's just caused a lot of fights on Reddit. One discussion on Reddit goes like this. Victoria could have easily been attacked by a previous male her mother trafficked her to. Someone responds, that never happened. Another response Then how did Victoria end up with an std? Another response. She was sexually abused, but her mother had nothing to do with it. In fact, she went to the police to report it. It others feel like it's still not good enough. If your child has been essayed, you got to be hyper vigilant with one netizen writing. Even if the mother wasn't there when Victoria was killed, she damn well put her in that situation. She's the one who started this terrible chain of events. I hope she suffers every second for the rest of her life, along with the rest of them, everyone else who have hurt Victoria. So with this new investigation, no one is being charged with Victoria's murder. Michelle gets charged with child abuse resulting in death. Fabian with reckless child abuse resulting in death, conspiracy to tamper with evidence, and seven counts of tampering with evidence. Jessica with child abuse resulting in death, aggravated assault with a deadly weapon, conspiracy to commit tampering, and three counts of tampering with evidence. Infuriatingly, Fabian was even released in 2019, awaiting his new trial because his charges were decreased from essay and murder to reckless child abuse charges. He was under house arrest, which for some insane reason, while he's out on house arrest, he gets married. Yeah, someone who was willing to marry him. Michelle and Jessica got less time because they decide that they're gonna work with the police and testify against Fabian. And during the trial, Jessica's sister. So Fabian's other cousin, she shows up, she's blowing kisses at court reporters, and at one point she's escorted out of the courtroom because she says she's screaming, you guys are pieces of shit. Talking to Michelle and Fabian, not her sister Jessica, she says, I'm gonna get you, Michelle Fabian. You're still family. Though in prison, Fabian does indeed get beat up, but it doesn't appear that it was for his charges. Now, I'm not here to neither confirm nor deny any appreciation for certain social systems put in place in prison, where child predators are treated like walking punching bags. I think that's not a conversation for today, but I regret to inform you that he did not get beaten up for what he did to Victoria. It seems like he was just in a heated argument with another prisoner because the guy who beat him up is also a pedophile. Ultimately, Michelle gets 12 years. Fabian gets 37 and a half years. Jessica gets 44 years. Michelle's parents, Victoria's grandparents, are suing the state with the argument that the state did not do enough to protect Victoria. After all of those CPS calls, a lot of netizens hate this. They feel like the grandparents also did not do enough to protect Victoria. And if anything, they were at least more involved and more incentivized to help Victoria. The grandparents, they live very close by and they did nothing. That's what netizens think. So they also. Furthermore, netizens are upset that if the grandparents are. They win the lawsuit, they are awarded taxpayer funds and they also stand by Michelle. They're like, we don't think that Michelle did any of this. That was a false confession. She's a very nice girl. And the community has come together to purchase a gravestone for Victoria because it really seems like nobody's in Victoria's life that cared for her. One netizen who claims to know Michelle. They say Michelle was always pretty quiet at work. She was really reserved. And I remember the rough time frame of when she met up with Fabian on some dating app. After that her work went to shit. Side note, she worked at the deli section in Kroger. So like Ralph's, she would show up late or call out. She would never help customers or she would just disappear on her phone. I will never forget her breath when she got close. It was like a tar type of smell. I'm guessing it was the message death. Yeah. And then, okay, so her ex boyfriend. Side note, this is completely side note. The ex boyfriend that tried to kiss Victoria, remember he was an ex co worker of Michelle's. They met working at the store. Bye Bye baby. They sell like baby strollers. He worked in the stroller department, which is incredibly alarming.

Jessica (73:09)

Yeah.

Interviewer (73:10)

Others feel like. Other netizens feel like the interrogation was all sorts of messed up writing. I saw the interrogation of Michelle. She confirmed anything the police said. She would have admitted that the mailman murdered her daughter if prompted to. But most netizen sentiments just want all of them to burn in the deepest depths of hell. Writing stuff like this makes me really think, like I wouldn't feel bad. I would actually be excited to see these types of people get brutally murdered. Fuck them. Another one reads, even if her mom and the boyfriend weren't home, I'm sure they were both complicit in it somehow and they don't ever deserve to be free. Another one reads as much as I hope this dude dies a slow painful death alone on a cement floor. He wasn't there at the time Talking about Fabian. Albuquerque Police spectacularly fucked this up from the get go. Still has been unable to account for another male DNA or even release a timeline of events that makes sense. The DA and the APD seem to be content in walking away from this and hoping everyone forgets how badly they messed this one up. Once the cells shut, slam shut. Other netizens are just really upset because there's no justice. And one comment I really hope the police look into the other men Michelle met. Not that I have any faith in law enforcement since they clearly don't seem to be doing much here, but they should just in case others are just focused on the words that were spoken during the interrogation. Writing after you guys cut the arms off, Victoria cut her leg off. Then you went and made dinner might be one of the most insane things I've ever heard. Who could ever participate in dismembering their own child and still want to eat? I cannot fathom. And every time I think this story can't possibly get weird, worse it does. And those are the netizen theories and sentiments. What are your thoughts on this case? I mean it's just so bizarre from every angle and I feel like every single person failed. Victoria, what are your thoughts? Let me know in the comments and please be safe and I will see you in the next one. Great brands, great prices. Everyone's got a reason to rack because they have framed jeans. Nike, yes, just so many good brands. Vince, Kurt, Geiger, London, Rag and Bone and more are at Nordstrom Rack stores now. You never know what you'll find, but you know it's going to be so good. Great brands, great prices. That's why you rack.

Starbucks Advertiser (75:27)

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