B (4:10)

What is a birthday book?

A (4:12)

It was put together by Ghislaine Maxwell, who had reached out and she said that Jeffrey Epstein also reached out to a bunch of his good friends and they all contributed a letter or photographs or stories and memories that they wanted to share with Jeffrey Epstein that they've had with him. And she compiled it almost into this, like, scrapbook.

B (4:33)

So Ghislaine Maxwell did it as like a little birthday surprise.

A (4:37)

Yes. And there's a lot of big names in this book. And this book is. There's chapters in this book. There's contents in this book. There are chapters. Some of them are alarming. They just read children, others read girlfriends, scientists. It's a very alarming birthday book. These birthday cards were sent to Epstein before he pled guilty to any sex crimes, which is later in 2008. However, this is after Virginia Giuffre has been abused. This is after a lot of the victims say that was their timeframe of the abuse. This is in the midst of when Epstein and Ghislaine are committing some of the most heinous trafficking crimes. And so everybody's wondering maybe if we don't ever get a list, is this a list? Because these people, they are hanging around Jeffrey Epstein, they're hanging around Ghislaine Maxwell during the height of the trafficking crimes. And there's a of insinuations, there's a lot of different little hints to Geoffrey loves being around women. People are drawing some of the creepiest cartoons. They've included all of these inside jokes that all feel like they point to something just a lot darker. It feels like at least one person, if not a lot of people in this birthday book knew what was happening with Epstein and Ghislaine and their sex trafficking ring.

A (6:19)

We would like to thank today's sponsors who have made it possible for Rotten Mango to support the Coalition to Abolish Slavery and Trafficking, AKA Caste. They are the United States largest provider of comprehensive direct services to survivors of trafficking. This episode's partnerships have also made it possible to support Rotten Mango's growing team. We'd also like to thank you guys for your continued support. As always, full show notes are available@rootten mangopodcast.com this episode involves mentions of alleged TV self exit CSA trafficking. Please watch with caution. And this is part two of our coverage on everything that's been happening with Epstein and the Epstein files. I do want to be clear that the allegations mentioned in the video are not Rotten Mingo's allegations specifically, but rather a retelling of the case details reported on by survivors like Virginia Giuffre and additionally all opinions online sentiment netizen comments are publicly available online records and they're not a reflection of our own beliefs. That's not to say that we don't personally have an opinion on this case, but our opinion does not equate to fact. Please note we are not accusing anyone of anything and unless proven in the court of law in the United States, everybody is innocent until proven guilty. So with all of that in mind, I'm also going to leave a Change.org petition in the description show notes and in the pinned comment because a lot of the victims of Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell, they have created a Change.org petition because a lot of people in politics right now are arguing, well, we don't want to release the files because we don't want to risk any of the identities of the victims or like we don't want to re traumatize them, we don't want them to go through that and the victims are standing up to say no, we do we survived this and we want this to be made public. Don't be using us as an excuse after everything that they've already been through in the court system, in the legal system, they're like, no, the last thing you're going to do is use us as a scapegoat. So please go sign that change.org petition. And there's a lot of resources also linked in there. I also want to say that we hope that the conversation for these videos is not going to be about the Rotten Mangoes team's political ideologies. I mean, we've made it pretty clear time and time again where we stand. But in these particular episodes and in this series as a whole, I think that it would just be ridiculous when that becomes the topic of conversation rather than, you know, like the people who could be involved in trafficking of children and have infinite access to money and power and are in high up political offices. And I will say this is a very interesting situation where there are high profile people from both parties that are being listed that keep coming up. Bill Clinton being from the left left, Donald Trump being from the right. I think this is like one of the very few instances of recent history where both parties and a lot of people in America are pretty united in the sense of we want the Epstein files released. And I do think that there are a lot of incredible channels. Obviously we're biased, so we watch certain ones that lean a certain way. But there are a lot of people who are giving their political opinions and giving a lot of political commentary of the Epstein files. I'm gonna just try to make this a compilation of everything that we found without inserting too much of our opinions into it just so it's easier for you to consume. So with that being said, let's get started. 2016 was one of the nastiest presidential races in US history. Is that a fact? Probably not. I don't know, but it was really dirty. I mean, there is no other way to put it. The race between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton was essentially a shit slinging contest where everybody ends up covered in shit, including all of the Americans witnessing it. And we just had to walk around with shit on our noses while the whole world watching us. It was the most ridiculous race of all time. At Trump rallies during the 2016 race, thousands of Trump supporters are screaming lock her up. About a presidential candidate. In regards to Hillary Clinton, there are reports that some people would leave their brains at home and come to rallies wearing Trump that bitch T shirts, which, like, you can have your Opinions about Hillary Clinton. Okay. Regardless of which side of the aisle you choose to die on, it's just not really a spectacular choice of attire in the name of fashion. There is a lot of discourse to be had with people, and again, not noting all of the political ideologies, but both candidates were incredibly polarizing people, yet they were just polarizing and very much hated by the opposition. However, Hillary Clinton was hated for being a woman on top of everything else she was already hated for. Whereas Donald Trump, he was hated for all the things he was hated for, but he wasn't hated for being a man. Now, of course, Trump does not make this easier for Hillary Clinton. At the time, there was this huge discussion of misogyny, which I do think that that's a pretty soft word to put to this. But there at one point, Trump retweets a post, and that post reads, if Clinton can't satisfy her husband, what makes her think she can satisfy America? He did later delete it. But now in 2025, people are thinking back to this moment, and it's starting to feel a little bit different. Because the new conspiracy theory in America, or joke, if you will, is that Donald Trump and Bill Clinton were having a salacious affair that Jeffrey Epstein knew about. In the US we like to make little acronyms for things. Perhaps it makes things sound more approachable. Instead of saying the Supreme Court of the United States, we say SCOTUS or FLOTUS for the first lady of the United States or POTUS for the president of the U.S. it sounds a softer. Rather than saying, this is a really old man with the nuclear codes, it sounds more approachable. Shorter. Potus. Right. A new acronym has now entered the conversation. Throtus. It is a play on POTUS and throat. Because the new conversation is that Donald Trump gave throtus to former President Bill Clinton. Joke. Meaning that it's probably untrue. It probably is in bad taste potentially. I'm also not saying that this happened, and I'm definitely not here defaming the most powerful people in the country because that would be unhinged behavior. There is an email that has been released by the House Oversight Committee between Mark Epstein and Jeffrey Epstein. Jeffrey Epstein has a brother named Mark. Mark is emailing Jeffrey Epstein in 2018. So this is one year before Jeffrey Epstein dies. How are you doing? A while back, you mentioned that you were pre diabetic. Has anything changed about that? What is your boy Donald up to now at this point? It's 2018. So this is during Donald Trump's first presidential term. Epstein responds, all good. Bannon with me. So Steve Bannon is going to be a name that comes up very frequently during all of these Epstein files, if you're starting to get into sorting through them. Steve Bannon was Trump's former chief strategist. He later had a falling out with Trump briefly. At one point, Trump does start calling Steve Bannon Sloppy Steve, but then he, I think their buddy buddy. Again, it's unclear. I feel like there's a lot of hot and cold in the administration, so I can't even tell you how someone feels about another party. Steve Bannon was in jail for a good four minutes also. A lot of these people have been in jail four months, but same thing, four minutes, four months. Something notable is that January 5th, Steve Bannon goes on a podcast and he.

B (13:44)

Says, January 5th of this year.

A (13:47)

No, January 5th, he goes on a podcast and he says, all hell is going to break loose tomorrow. Tomorrow is January 6th. The comment leads Bannon to be subpoenaed during the investigation into the January6 insurrection. Bannon shows up and is like, hey, so I don't have to tell you guys anything. And the long story, short story version is that Congress is not having it. They throw him in jail for contempt. When he starts serving his sentence, he dramatically calls himself a political prisoner, quote, but I am proud of going to prison.

B (14:21)

Oh, so that's what the four minutes is for.

A (14:23)

Yeah, for the four months. And also he's proud of it. But at the same time, it has been reported that he was calling every single political connection that he could get on the line to try and shorten his sentence. And asking everyone is probably a gross exaggeration, but I'm sure he asked a lot of people. After four months, he walks out of there as if he had just gone to war. And he states publicly, the four months in federal prison, not only did it not break me, it empowered me. I am more energized and more focused than I've ever been in my life.

A (14:53)

So there is also a book called the Devil's Bargain, and on the COVID of it is Trump and Steve Bannon. And in my personal opinion, the COVID of the book looks like two best friends in a room and they might kiss. The important takeaway of this is not the perceived sexual tension between Steve Bannon and Donald Trump, it is that Steve Bannon was a huge, huge reason on probably why Trump was successful in his 2016 run to the White House. That's how a lot of people feel. Steve Bannon has always been A pivotal part of Trump's official and unofficial team. And he's seemingly very, very close with Epstein up until his death, even in the years leading to his arrest. There's emails from 2018 that indicate that Epstein was with Steve Bannon during that time. Epstein responds to his brother in this email about this pre diabetic condition, and he writes, all good. Bannon with me. Mark Epstein responds, ask him if Putin has the photos of Trump blowing Bubba. Okay, who is Bubba? A Reddit post from 12 years ago, pre Epstein becoming public era. A Reddit post reads, why is Bill Clinton's nickname Bubba? The top response to the post is, everyone in Arkansas is nicknamed Bubba. A more thorough response reads, bubba was a nickname given by his Republican rivals, and it's often associated with, quote, white trash of the South. They thought him by saying that he was an undereducated, trashy person. But it backfired. Ultimately, Mark Epstein, Jeffrey Epstein's brother, has now come out to state that Bubba is not Bill Clinton, but nobody really believes him.

B (16:31)

So who's Bubba?

A (16:33)

He doesn't say. He doesn't say to the point where people start speculating that perhaps Bubba is a horse that Ghislaine Maxwell had. There is no indication that she did have a horse named Bubba, but that would also be, I don't know which one's worse, actually. So I don't know if you know, which hypothetical situation would be the worst of our imaginations.

B (16:52)

So the text, the email reads, ask Putin.

A (16:55)

Yes, ask Bannon to ask Vladimir Putin if Putin has a picture of Donald Trump going down on Baba. And so a lot of netizens have taken it even a step further to say that during a lot of points, it appeared that Trump has been fairly friendly with Vladimir Putin in degrees in which a lot of American people don't understand during the war over there. And so they speculate, well, maybe Putin has something on him, such as a picture of him blowing Bubba. Is this online conspiracy that I don't subscribe to, because I don't subscribe to anything because I am just not a litigious person, is what I have to say. But nobody believes any of this. Nobody believes Mark Epstein. Nobody cares if it's not the truth, because they think it's funnier if it is the truth. The comments now read, this was Trump's first taste of the presidency. Another comment reads, it was never Monica Lewinsky under that desk, but is the country really melting their frontal lobes because of a likely joking email referencing two presidents? Because it's likely, even if There is a picture. Perhaps it's edited. Perhaps it's a photograph of a painting. Perhaps it's not what we think it is. Right? Are we really having a meltdown over this? Well, there is a lot more to it. A lot more. Like how for Epstein's 50th birthday party. Both Trump and Clinton are rumored to have submitted their letters for Epstein, wishing him the happiest half century of life. And there's not, there's not a lot of ways to make a birthday present feel ominous or creepy with this birthday book. Feels like evidence. I wish I could go page by page with you because, I mean, every page that we were studying, the RM team and I, we felt like we could spend a day deep diving into every single page in this behemoth of a birthday card. Just send a gift card next time. Some of the well wishes start off a little bit more normal. One of Epstein's friends asks their house astrologer, because they all just have these people laying around that they pay a house astrologer about what to make of Epstein. Epstein. And that gets included in his 50th birthday book. The analysis from this house astrologer reads, a fiercely intelligent, highly complex individual, for whom the accumulation of great wealth is no problem, prefers working in private or better yet, utter secrecy. Emotionally complicated, can run hot and cold, can lose interest in the blink of an eye, and as an added bonus, beat the current masters at their own game.

B (19:36)

Hmm.

A (19:37)

That's in the birthday card. Other people have included pictures of Epstein that they, that they like. Like one of them is in a darkly lit bathroom. The walls appear to be covered in like a dark colored wood. The entire tub is lined with dark colored steps. And the most frightening thing is that the bathwater is barely bubbly. It's barely covering Epstein. It's just lukewarm water. And he's marinating in it. He's just floating around in it like an overcooked shrimp. He's got one hand supporting his head, but it's also just giving him this air.

B (20:09)

Wait, what is this?

A (20:10)

It's a photo of Epstein in a bathtub.

B (20:12)

There's a photo shoot.

A (20:13)

Please go watch the video version on YouTube. It's just like a candid photo.

B (20:18)

Someone sent him a photo of him as his birthday card.

A (20:21)

Yes. It could have also been Ghislaine, who had been sprinkling in a bunch of photos everywhere. And so he's got his other arm holding up some sort of pamphlet that he's reading. And the caption to this photo reads, waiting for my foot massage. Because Jeffrey Epstein loves a good foot massage.

A (20:41)

Something he allegedly had in common with Prince Andrew. Now, a few pages down from that, you have a picture of Epstein laying on his side on a hotel bed. He's using the landline. It looks like he's calling for room service. And he is in nothing but a tiny, itty bitty Speedo. And he just looks like a cheeky motherfucker. And there's just so many of these photos that have been released in this birthday book that we have never seen before. There's another picture of Epstein and a bunch of his guy friends where Epstein is on the very right side of the picture. He's looking up at the camera through his lashes, and he looks like he's having all these dark thoughts. And the accompanying message reads, almighty Jeffrey began to get that look in his eye. He was cooking up something. Something either evil or at least deadly. I always hoped he wasn't spurred to action by my action. The unforgivable, immortal sin of getting married. So this is a picture of Jeffrey Epstein at his friend's wedding. And he looks pissed off and he looks annoyed.

B (21:43)

Wait, so this is released recently?

A (21:45)

Yeah.

B (21:46)

Oh, yeah. Oh, I see.

A (21:49)

Yeah, it's recently. And these are things because I know. Yeah. By the time you're watching this, it's been probably a few days since the pictures were released. The new pictures of Epstein's island. There's a picture where there's, like, a dentist chair and all of these face masks that are hanging on the wall. Some people are speculating that there were recording devices behind the face masks. Some people are just confused at what this man's. I don't even want to call it eclectic, but just, like, weird style is, there's meeting rooms where there's words on the chalkboard that are like, power, wealth, deception. It's just, what kind of meeting are you having in this room? There's a few other very creepy, unsettling pictures. But I would say that. I mean, I don't know if these are even creepier than his Manhattan townhome pictures. These are kind of what people that have been tracking the Epstein files or the Epstein case for a really long time are expecting his properties to look like. But this birthday book, when it was released, it was. I mean, it was just fucking shocking. I don't think anyone expected this.

B (22:50)

Do you know, like, all the people who rode all the cars, like, are there. Are they addressed? Put their name on there?

A (22:56)

Yes. So a lot of people have put their name on names on There. And there's a lot of high profile people in there. There's a lot, a lot of Nobel winning scientists. Yeah, there's, there's big names in there. There's a few billionaires in there signing their names. And then you have a bunch of people who knew Epstein from a while back. I tried to trace down everyone whose name was. I could read and decipher their names. A lot of these people have like the worst handwriting in the world. And most of them are very well known, very prominent, and if not, they're still very wealthy individuals, like they would be real estate moguls in Dallas. They're maybe not a billionaire, but they're still very prominent figures in their communities. So lots of high powered people. And there is just a lot of humor in this birthday book that doesn't seem that funny, but I guess to them it's hilarious. One is written by Epstein's childhood friend, and this is before Epstein only hung out with people that make eight, nine figures a year. But the card includes some of these small stories that they experienced with Epstein, of memories that they share. And one reads, Castaway, Volume 1. I was porking some girl in bed. And then Jeff brings in the maid to make the bed. She left screaming and never came back. We're both in bed porking some girls. I said, what do you think? While he's shoving penicillin down my throat.

B (24:21)

What is that?

A (24:22)

So you don't get certain STDs, huh? I spent the whole day without speaking English. Jeff told everybody I was raised on a boat in Brazil. When I came out of the bathroom brushing my teeth, I spit the foam out on the floor. And Jeff says, that's how they do it in Brazil.

B (24:37)

What?

A (24:38)

These are just like little short stories of all these memories people had with Jeffrey Epstein. And they're just weird. Yeah, yeah, just weird. Another one reads, two very young girls, probably 17, were riding in my father's Caddy, park Avenue, top down, smooching it up in the car, drop dead laughing. It seems like they were probably very young as well. I don't know if they were 17, I don't know if they were 19 at the time, but this story indicates that they were very young.

A (25:09)

Now, another friend of Epstein writes a letter reminiscing about the good old days, if you will. And they write stories of chronic utis, prostate massage, orgies, ice skating in Prospect park with Terry and me and Warren with scarves on our head so we could skate during couples only music. I mean, all of this has elements of Red flags, but it's not inherently terrifying. But like any nightmare, I think the further you go down into this book, the creepier it gets. It almost feels like half the people are. It almost feels like they're writing in code. A lot of inside jokes that are hard for third parties to grasp, but they feel sinister. And some of the more terrifying pictures come from around page 114. Epstein has a. What appears to be like a woman's stocking over his head. So it's pretty see through, but it's kind of smushing his facial features together. But you can see his face and he's holding a gun or what appears to be a gun in his hand. He's got one buddy next to him who's wearing a ski mask, which is the eyes cut out. And the accompanying message reads, finally, at the home of our friend, let's call him Mr. Brown, Jeffrey unveiled his plan. To some, it may have seemed to get rich quick scheme, but to me it was pure genius. Rob and kill was the name of the plan. The first victim redacted. So this is redacted before it's released. I'm assuming it's a victim's name. The first victim to be attacked and brutally plundered. Parentheses. Would she want more than that?

B (26:44)

What is wrong with these people? What is going on here?

A (26:47)

On the boardwalk in Venice beach, broad daylight. The dastardly thieves were never caught. And then they write in the next paragraph, I retired from the life, but I recently read an article in New York which led me to believe that my old friend Mr. E had continued on and become an industry leader. An industry leader in the kill and get rich quick scheme that they were just referencing. Robin, Kill is the name of the plan.

A (27:20)

Then another letter goes all the way back to when Epstein was born. The letterhead reads, from Johnny Boy kafka. Dearest Jeff, 50 years old. You really have had an amazing life. Amazing because of where it started and when it started. Paula and Seymour. Fucking Paula and Seymour are Jeffrey Epstein's parents. And this guy goes into just write in really crude detail of how Epstein's dad did things to Epstein's mom to conceive and get her pregnant with Jeffrey Epstein. Yeah. And then he starts writing about the time that they both had their first story times with a woman. And Kafka writes, my first was, I spent the summer with Lloyd and Andy working at Playland Arcade. It was with Lloyd's girlfriend. Then he just goes to lay it on thick for Epstein, writing things like, never worried, always confident that Aspect of your personality, of course, coupled with your brilliance and intellect is what made you who and what you are today. That don't give a shit attitude. Your calculated aloofness, your sense of humor, and most importantly, that confidence came to you early on. You began to realize you could get away with shit. That chicks and people in general were schmucks. You sensed that you were sharper and more astute than most, especially the ones who had women, money, position and power.

B (28:45)

This is just a childhood friend.

A (28:47)

Yeah. So now you're 50. No sweat, Jeff. You look great. You're probably in the best shape of your life and you're not slowing down one bit. There's not a day that goes by that I don't think about you. So Jeff, even though we don't speak that often and our lives don't intersect, you really are a part of me and I will always be grateful for the great times we had. You don't know it, but you're my kids role model. I will always have the fondest memories of our past and I can honestly say that they were the best years of my life. Even though I could have never get laid. Eternally and with love, Johnny boy. But most terrifying is that this birthday book has an entire chapter dedicated to children. And these were written by children that a lot of netizens have been speculating. Dating are his ex girlfriend's children. Ex girlfriend being somebody that is now probably worth like billions of dollars. So I don't even think we should name them because there's no way to prove that these are their children. Their faces are blocked out. But they, there is writing that seems like the children are writing things like Uncle F. And it has been stated in a lot of documents that the children of his ex girlfriend please go watch the last episode. They would call him Uncle F. So Jeff, but without the J. But there are a lot of pictures. There's a whole page of a child that's probably under 10 and she's playing the piano, she's posing in her pajamas. I mean, it's hard to tell if there's anything sinister about the pictures. I don't think that there are because you know, there are necessary redactions being made. I don't think anything is inherently terrifying except the fact that these are for Jeffrey Epstein. I just can't imagine gifting someone pictures of my child for their 50th birthday. Unless it's a relative, which even then I feel like my relatives would say, hey, thanks, I love your kids, but can I get a Gift card instead. Like, I don't really care for these pictures like that. Why would you want your child to write letters to Epstein? In one disturbing child drawing, there are five people crying at the top. And the caption reads in giant crayon scribbles, here comes the bride, all dressed in white. Where is the groom? He's in the ladies room. What? Yeah. And right under that you have a children's drawing that I feel like could end up in some sort of child psychology textbook. You see three figures, two adults and one child. The two adults look like they're about to dance. They're facing each other. The adult on the left has the shadow of another child inside of them. So is this person pregnant? They eat the child. I don't know. I mean, this is, I guess, artistic expression. It's up for interpretation. And then you have a small child dancing in between them. And then in another hand drawn picture which appears to be done by crayons, this is. It's unclear if this was done by a child or an adult. You see an adult playing a grand piano, like a Steinway, perhaps. And behind them are these windows with these thick green curtains, which a lot of people have been cross referencing with multiple of Jeffrey Epstein's properties. And it could be plausible with multiple of them. There are rows and rows of these plush looking pink chairs, almost like the ones that you would see at like a wedding banquet. And they're all lined up with what appears to be other adults sitting on those chairs watching the pianist. But at the feet of the piano, on the ground, there is a little child just laying on the ground. The card with it reads, jeffrey, look at this drawing. Picture the scene without the audience. The girl sleeping on the floor, I believe had shorter hair. Then does it bring you back memories?

B (32:22)

That is creepy.

A (32:24)

Wow.

A (32:26)

Because I also feel like if it's. I mean, people are assuming that none of this is going to be made public. If there was a funny situation where, hey, remember your best friend's kid fell asleep because your piano skills were so bad. And then they started farting it up while they were like. I feel like you would write about it. This is so, so cryptic that it's just weird.

B (32:47)

Yeah. Wow.

A (32:50)

Throughout the entirety of this so called birthday book, that again, just feels like it belongs in an evidence bag, sealed. There are, well, probably unsealed for the public, but there are many references to Epstein and his many girls, with one even including a New Yorker esque cartoon that says, I've done a lot of soul searching and I've come to the conclusion that I should be thinking less about money and more about naked women and biomathematical research. And on that theme, someone writes Epstein a birthday card filled with a bunch of mathematical equations which I cannot break down for you. But on that very page there is a distinct handwritten note and it says, F. And only F would ask, how up are your kids?

B (33:33)

F as Jeffrey, or we don't know. Only F will ask how up is.

A (33:40)

Your how up are your kids? Hits.

A (33:44)

That's amazing. They're so cryptic for no reason.

B (33:47)

Yeah, yeah.

A (33:49)

And it's so weird. I feel like these are things. Either you really have to have a different way of thinking or different hobbies in life. It feels like when people are trying to be edgy. It's like if you were to get 20, just like 17 year olds that are trying to be edgy and you're like, hey, write some cryptic shit and then put it in a book. This would be what comes out of it because it feels really ominous. For no reason later, the card reads, I'm thinking of all the great times we had together. You know, you will always be my very close friend, even though we don't see each other so much anymore. In another chapter titled Girlfriends, one birthday card reads jizzies. So at the very top it says jizzies definition, a highly excited and distracted state of mind. The card has multiple redacted photos that could be intimate photos. It's hard to say if they're consensual adult intimate photos or if it's csam, I don't know, but it reads, and I don't even know if these are intimate photos, but I imagine because anytime there are pictures of women, they will redact the face but keep the clothed body.

A (35:02)

But the whole thing is redacted. So unless it's like a very close up of the face, I'm not sure. I mean, once you hear the accompanying message, I don't think that you're gonna think it's a face. So it reads, to a collector of more than beautiful minds, he whom appreciated architecture, undulating landscapes, beauty marks. There's a whole story written on the left side near these redacted photos. And it says, I understood years ago, after Ghislaine came to the Palm beach horse show looking for what thought was a horse, that she was on a mission for a collection of breast photos. A compilation, of course, for you. I came to see you some months later and you told me to take my top off with the usual Epstein smile. You looked at my breast and said, yeah, I was right. Memory served you correctly. The beauty mark was on the right breast. One quotable memory. To a true friend with whom I have shared many complicities. I love you and wish you the best next 50 years.

A (36:02)

But also horse show. Ghislaine Maxwell is going out on a mission to get Virginia Giuffre stated in her book that for one of Epstein's birthdays, she, Virginia Giuffre wanted to get him a watch because he really likes watches. And so she just. She really, at this point in her time, she's saying it's very conflicting because on one hand, she's starting. Start seeing them almost as parental figures, because there would be moments where at the island, there would be days where nothing happens and they would get popcorn and they would lay around the couch and they would watch Sex in the city together, and they would just have normal conversations. And so these types of moments would convince her, and she's a child at this point, that this is a normal family. And she would almost convince herself, just get through the bad parts so that you can have the good parts with them, like watching sex in the city and just having a good day and eating dinner together, those were like the okay parts. So she was thinking, maybe I could get him a watch. And Ghislaine smirked at her and said, he wouldn't want a watch from you, basically saying, there's no watch you could afford that he would ever wear. And so she says, but I have a better idea. Virginia states that Giuffre. Virginia states that Ghislaine took nude photos of her to add to his trophy collection. By this point, Virginia Duffrey had already seen all of the pictures of Csam that he collected and that he had. He had this little room with a hidden door in his Palm beach estate where all of the pictures were framed up on this wall. And I mean, it's clearly Csam. And he ran out of space because she's saying that there was just boxes upon boxes of more photos in that little hidden room.

B (37:41)

So every wall is covered.

A (37:44)

Yeah. Wow. And there is another part in his New York mansion that there were pictures lining his staircase of naked women. And the naked pictures of these.

A (37:59)

It seems like they appear to be a little bit older because they're just out in the hallway. But the one in the Palm beach estate, in this hidden room, Virginia Giuffre says, I mean, these are girls.

B (38:10)

Wow.

A (38:11)

Now for the New York one, they could still be girls, they could still be children. We just don't know I guess it just wasn't as obvious, perhaps. So it's kind of like this. Questionable. I don't know.

B (38:23)

Wow.

A (38:24)

So it does seem like whoever this person is, it could very well have been a child at the time that Ghislaine had gotten pictures of her chest to give to Epstein.

A (38:36)

Another letter from a girlfriend of Epstein reads, my dear Jeffrey, I can write about how I want to cut you into bird head pieces and chew them between my molars until I suck all the blood and juice out of you. No stew, just raw. Or I can write about how you never cease to amaze me with your kindness and generosity to so many whose lives you've touched in several ways. Another card from a former assistant of Epstein's, which the fact that this is written by a former assistant should make this all the more alarming. And this is not to say that it's alarming on the author's part. It's a alarming on Jeffrey Epstein.

A (39:10)

And it just reads, before Jeffrey, I was 22 year old divorcee working as a hostess in a hotel restaurant. After Jeffrey, I now live in New York City. I have traveled to and they list like 20 different countries. And then more importantly continues on. I have met Prince Andrew, President Clinton, the Sultan of Brunei, Donald Trump, Antonio Verglas, which is I think a New York City photographer. Naomi Campbell, Stephanie C. Moore, who is a model and an actress. Peter Brandt, an art collector, Kevin Spacey, disgraced actor, Chris Tucker, Diana Ross, Michael Jackson and brilliant scientists, lawyers and businessmen. I don't know. I'm sure a lot of these people have no nefarious connections to meeting Jeffrey Epstein's assistant, who is clearly of age. So I'm not saying that this is any sort of insinuation that these people are on some sort of illegal list of they partook in any bad activities. I'm just saying that's what the card reads. I have flown on the Concord, gone skydiving, attended a Victoria's Secret fashion show, because remember, one of Epstein's closest friends was Leslie Wexner, the owner of Victoria's Secret, which if you watched our original Epstein series, you'll get a whole deep dive on him. And they continue to write. Seen the private quarters of Buckingham palace, sat on the Queen of England's throne, rode on a racetrack with Max Papys. I think he's a driver, learned countless skills. Jeffrey, there are no words to describe how much I appreciate and admire you. I believe you are the most extraordinary person I've ever met and can't believe how lucky I am to have become part of your life. What you have shown and taught me in one year is more than most people experience in a lifetime. What else can I say but and then there's a ton of redacted photos. But after that line, what else can I say but There's a picture of Epstein and her walking side by side in New York City and his hand is like fully inside of her jeans on her butt. What? And this is supposed to be a former assistant. So.

B (41:13)

That is wow.

A (41:15)

And it reads at the end. Thank you. After the birthday book is released, the fallout is instant. For some people in London, the Ambassador to the United States. So this is a UK politician for the Labour Party, that is the US Ambassador. Peter Mandelson is under fire. The Foreign Office Minister in the UK is debating what to do about Peter and finally the judgment does come down. The Foreign Office Minister in the UK releases a statement. In light of the additional information in the emails written by Peter Mandelson, the Prime Minister has asked the Foreign Secretary to withdraw him as Ambassador to the United States.

A (41:56)

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A (44:36)

They're saying that Peter Mandelson was getting too cozy in the United States, perhaps way too cozy, that he befriended Jeffrey Epstein.

B (44:43)

What did he do? What did he write?

A (44:45)

There's a lot of friendly emails between the two of them. Allegedly. And? And allegedly he wrote a note for Jeffrey Epstein's birthday book. It's actually one of the more explosive pages from the birthday book. The first page reads, once upon a time, an intelligent, sharp witted man they call, quote, mysterious parachuted into my life. And it's a picture of Epstein parachuting.

B (45:09)

Like photoshopped?

A (45:11)

No, like a real photo of him parachuting. You would spend many hours just waiting for him to turn on up. And there's a picture of Peter Mendelsohn just looking out the window, waiting for Epstein. I guess. It's like a storybook. And then another caption. And often no sooner were you getting used to having him around, you would suddenly be alone again. He would leave you alone with interesting friends to entertain instead, or just some dogs to keep you company. Although he wasn't always so keen on them. There's pictures of Peter and Epstein on Epstein's island with the story continuing. But then he would parachute back in very occasionally, taking you by surprise in some far off places or in one of his glorious houses. He Likes to share with his friends. Yum yum. I don't know what yum yum means, but the most damning part of this birthday card from Peter Mandelson is a picture of Peter and Epstein on Epstein's porch. Or it appears to be Epstein's porch. Peter is in a white bathrobe, listening to Epstein talking with a giant smile on his face. And Epstein is fully clothed, leaning forward, just yapping away.

B (46:11)

So these are all very powerful people. People, right? He's clearly very powerful.

A (46:16)

Yes.

B (46:16)

But they talk about him in these letters like they're trying to suck up to him.

A (46:21)

Yeah.

B (46:21)

They're, like, looking up to this guy like, you parachuted into my life, and.

A (46:26)

I wait for you.

B (46:27)

Yes.

A (46:28)

And you vanish and you leave me.

B (46:30)

Exactly. That is so alarming.

A (46:33)

And there's an air of secrecy in all of these letters. It's weird. It's like, what do you mean, interesting friends? Who is he leaving you with?

B (46:42)

And clearly, I mean, he's rich. None of these people needs money.

A (46:46)

No, I mean, some of these people that wrote cards to him are richer than him.

B (46:50)

Exactly. And they're high political power people, but they still talk to him in this manner, which is crazy.

A (46:56)

Yeah. The political fallout is pretty instant for Peter Mendelsohn, but also for others, like Alexander Acosta. At this point, it is safe to assume that there are 10 people that just run around from every freaking state and every city, and they hold all the power and they circulate amongst themselves. Because, yes, while the release documents are very extensive, the list of names that are associated or somehow associated, nefarious or not connected to Epstein, that list is long. Yes. But still, the same names keep coming up over and over and over again. And Alexandra Acosta is. Is one of them. And listen, there is not much that I can say about Alexander Acosta other than the fact that there are a lot of netizens that write, you know, when someone just looks guilty. That's what we have to say about Alexander Acosta. What is he guilty of? Some would say of having a criminal hairline, but that sounds a little mean. So I'm not the one saying it, but I'm just saying his hairline is kind of wacky. But Alexander Acosta, if you are to believe netizens, he is the one that let Epstein get away. In the early 2000s, an investigation is opened into Epstein, which we originally covered in our original Epstein series. The Palm Beach Police Department, they start investigating, they report it to the state DA's office, the Palm Beach DA's office. By that point, they have several underage victims who state similar things happened to them, that they were recruited by their friends in high school. Do you remember she was found with like $300 in her bag. It was the whole thing. Now the case goes to prosecutor Lana Belo Havoc, who holds a grand jury proceeding in 2006, and she's gonna indict Epstein. Or at least that's the whole point of a grand jury proceeding, is to see if you can indict somebody. This is the state case. Lana Belo Havoc, she works for the Palm beach county state attorney's office. She takes this to the grand jury. She brings in two alleged underage victims of Epstein. And for four hours, these victims are telling the grand jury everything that happened. And the prosecutor is supposed to show the grand jury, look at the crimes, look at the impact of the crimes. Do you believe these victims? Because I do. So we should go ahead and indict this individ. That's the whole purpose of the prosecutor. That's like their one mission. One attorney for the victim later comes out to say they basically tank their own case. It was atrocious the way they handled it. The prosecutor, Lana Belo Havoc, she essentially treats the victims, the witnesses, as the defendant. She blows it up by essentially cross examining her own witnesses.

B (49:24)

Intentionally or just underqualified. What is going on?

A (49:28)

Most people think it's the former. They think that you cannot be that underqualified. She blows it up by essentially cross examining her own witnesses, showing them their own social media posts, which obviously makes crazy, total and complete sense that somebody's social media posts should have a correlation with their ability to be victimized. That makes total sense. If you just walked out of a doctor's office with a lobotomy, she would say things like, hey, on social media, you post about shoplifting and you write on social media that you're 18 years old and you make $250,000 a year. The victim is like, yeah, because it's a joke. Like, you just write things on social. I mean, it's social. Especially. This is like back in the day when social media was not as big as it is now. People would just make up storylines on social media. Everybody was anonymous. Everybody was like a Tumblr anonymous poster.

B (50:14)

So she's saying that, calling them a liar.

A (50:17)

Yeah. And like, who's to say that you didn't tell all these adults that you're 18? She's 15 years old, by the way, and she probably looks 15.

B (50:25)

That's crazy.

A (50:26)

All my friends do that. Because it's kind of funny and random and stupid. That's a direct quote. And then the prosecutor, after the victim shares that she was brought in to massage Epstein and that he offered to pay her more money if she let him use a toy on her, she says yes because she didn't feel she had a choice. Now, mind you, she's 15, so yes is not yes. She cannot consent. And in a further attempt to showcase her intellect, she accuses one of the witnesses, one of the victims, of being a sex worker. Worker. You're aware that you committed a crime now? I am. I didn't know it was a crime when I was doing it. I guess it's like prostitution or something like that. That's a direct quote from one of the victims. Her attorney later states, it just reaffirmed what we always knew what was happening is that the state attorney was afraid to prosecute Epstein and that they tanked their own case by attacking their own witness during the grand jury proceeding. It was almost like the grand jury proceeding was an attempt to prosecute the teenagers and ignore Epstein. Another victim tells the grand jury, he was well aware of my age from the very beginning. To which the prosecutor asks her again, you understand that you in effect, were committing prostitution yourself? Yes.

B (51:38)

What happened after that?

A (51:40)

So because this is like the most horrendous grand jury proceeding, the panel returned a one count indictment for solicitation of sex wise that does not specify that the victims were minors. So this is like. This is like nothing. You go to a brothel in a state where brothels are not legal, and you're a. John Epstein gets arrested for that one state charge, he gets booked and then promptly released on bond because this is like nothing, especially in the state of Florida. And the only good person in this entire story is the Palm beach police chief. He's pissed about the whole thing. He witnessed this whole thing.

B (52:11)

Yeah.

A (52:12)

He calls the FBI, he's like, nope, I'm not doing this. Hey, Florida can't do it, so can you guys? Can you bring in the feds, do something? The FBI open an investigation. They find 34 confirmed minors. And when I say confirmed, the minors are all sharing their stories of. It's hard to say legally confirmed, because you'll see why. Confirmed minors who report that they were victimized by Epstein and Ghislaine, they find a ton of pictures in Epstein's house as well. Like the csam, the case goes to the festival beds in the state of Florida, and it's led by none other than, at the time, U.S. attorney of the Southern District of Florida, Alexander Acosta, Appointed by then president George W. Bush. He was at least initially known for being aggressive on high profile cases, specifically dealing with the cartel. But nobody will remember him for any of that. They will remember him for what happened to Epstein because it will come back to haunt him probably for the rest of his life. And it honestly should. One victim tells the Miami Herald that Epstein was preying on 14 year old girls without homes, without parental figures. They were in rough situations. Ghislaine could just sniff them out. She was just preying on them to bring them to Epstein as some sort of gift or a product. And These kids, they're 14 years old, so they're telling Alexander Acosta and the feds, all of them, this. What do the feds do? What does Alexander Acosta do? He goes to Epstein and offers him a deal, a plea deal. Now, plea deals are not in itself negative. A lot of victims will say that they actually appreciate plea deals because they don't want to go through the stress of going through a trial. The most important thing is the prosecutors work with the victims. They never present a plea deal without telling the victims first.

B (53:57)

I see.

A (53:58)

Yes. Now, I don't think a lot of people have been calling this a sweetheart deal. I don't even think sweetheart does this situation justice. It's basically a get out of jail free card with potentially unlimited uses because Ghislaine in 2025 wants to use this card. Now, she thinks this is a Costco card. She thinks this is like a day pass to a spa. She thinks this is a free use coupon.

B (54:20)

What does she want?

A (54:22)

Okay, I'm gonna get into it, but she's saying that this specific deal should make it that she cannot be in jail right now. Prison, allegedly. There were multiple meetings between Epstein's defense attorneys and Alexander Acosta at hotel breakfast, breakfast restaurants. Now, Epstein had two main defense attorneys working. Alan Dershowitz was one of them. And then the other guy, he worked for this massive law firm where Alexander Acosta was previously a partner. So I'm assuming that they at least know each other or they run in the same circles. Buds, we don't know. Right. It may seem that they're all cozy with one another and Acosta offers up what most people would say, a deal that's way too good to be true. I feel like if I heard anybody get offered this deal, I would say, I don't know. I don't think so. I think it's way too good to be true. I think you're going to get screwed over. Unless you're a very wealthy man in America, then for you, this is a reality. This is the minimum. Acosta identifies 36 underage victims and he drafts up this massive 53 page indictment. 53 pages for the indictment. But instead of indicting Epstein, instead of discussing what the victims want to do or doing the right thing and taking this to trial and hoping that the judge throws the book at Epstein, Acosta proposes this. Hey. Epstein plead guilty to state charges. One count of solicitation of sex work and one count of solicitation of sex work with a minor under the age of 18.

B (55:44)

What? That's it.

A (55:46)

Now this is where the deal gets even sweeter. It's like sickly sweet. I'm gonna throw up. The deal stipulates that none of the victims will be notified of the deal. The deal will be kept under seal, and they will dismiss all the grand jury subpoenas, and it will be a non prosecution agreement, which means that Epstein and his co conspirators avoid federal sex trafficking charges as long as he pleads guilty. So Ghislaine Maxwell is now trying to use this to appeal her conviction. This is in Florida. This is the Southern District of Florida. And then this is in 2008, 2009. Now in 2019, Epstein is arrested in the Southern District of New York by a prosecutor that we know, Maureen Comey, that was working on the Sean Combs case, but now has been fired. All still connected to the Epstein case. Trump famously hates her father, and some people think that the timing of her being fired after she primarily worked on Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell's case is odd. That's not what I'm saying. I'm just saying that's what people are saying. So Maureen Comey, they get Jeffrey Epstein in the Southern District of New York, then they get Ghislaine Maxwell in the Southern District of New York. Epstein dies before he goes to trial. Ghislaine Maxwell is convicted and she's thrown into prison. Now Ghislaine is saying, hey, I'm actually part of Jeffrey Epstein's 2009 non prosecution agreement, which means I can avoid federal sex trafficking charges. She's trying to argue it doesn't matter that it's not the district I was charged in. So a lot of people are saying maybe if she had been convicted in the Southern District of Florida, that could apply more. But then she's trying to argue it doesn't matter because you guys are all the Fed Feds. The feds are the Feds. But, I mean, it doesn't seem like she's going to get out of jail. If anything, people suspect she may be pardoned at some point, receive a presidential pardon. But that's a speculation, and a lot of people have opinions even about the speculation. Some people think it's horseshit. Some people think it's very plausible. It really depends. Ghislaine, in her 2025 proffer agreement, says that during the Florida investigations, she wasn't even investigated. Like, nobody reached out to her. She said, I never even received a phone call. That's a quote. Did you receive a subpoena? No. Did the state law enforcement ever reach out to you? No. If that is true, that just goes to show how little anyone investigated or cared for anything. A federal judge will later find this entire deal illegal. Illegal, illegal in the sense because Acosta did not consult the victims before agreeing to this. There is something called the Crime Victims Rights act, meaning victims have the right to be heard on related plea deals, sentencing, and other key developments in the cases that impact them. But a lot of the victims did not even find out about this sweetheart deal until he's like, out of prison.

B (58:32)

Where is he now, the prosecutor?

A (58:35)

Alexander Acosta? Yeah, he was in the White House. This is in 2008, 2009. Fast forward to 2016. Trump gets elected into the White House for his first presidential term, and he appoints Alexander Acosta to be the Secretary of the Department of Labor.

B (58:54)

I see.

A (58:54)

When Acosta gets. Yeah. And also, like, he is like, a big figure in the Republican Party. He was appointed to be the U.S. attorney for by George W. Bush in Florida. When he gets to the role, he proposes an 80% budget cut to the International Labor Affairs Bureau, which is the division that funds programs to combat child and human trafficking and forced labor. So there was a lot of drama there. In 2019, Acosta is questioned about giving the world's most unheard of deal to Epstein in which he says, I wanted to help the victims. So many of the victims have come forward to say, hey, so we are so traumatized by that deal. Like, genuinely so traumatized, because nobody consulted us. We lived in fear for the rest of our lives. He got off with a slap on his wrist. And most likely he was victimized in New Girls afterwards. So they're like, that was the most terrifying thing of our lives. But Acosta is like, no, no, I was helping the victims. That's why we intervened. And that's what the prosecutors of my office did. They insisted that he go to jail and Put the world on notice that he was and is a sexual predator. He said that if they went to trial it would have been a roll of the dice because back then things were different. Quote, today we know a lot more about how victims trauma impacts their testimony. Our juries are more accepting of contradictory statement.

A (60:17)

That trauma impacted. Memories work differently. And today our judges do not allow victim shaming by defense attorneys. He also, which that is not true. He also tries to use the victims as scapegoats, saying that they were refusing to testify and some of them were even exonerating Epstein. He goes on to shift the blame to the state attorneys, saying, and this is a personal opinion here, but like both of them could spar, just spar it out in an arena. I could not care less. But the former state attorney is like, no, no, it's you. Okay, More or less. He accuses Acosta of trying to rewrite history. And he says, no matter how my office resolved the state charges, the U.S. attorney's office always had the ability to file its own federal charges. If Mr. Acosta was truly concerned with the state's case and felt he had to rescue the matter, he would have moved Forward with the 53 page indictment that his own office drafted, which, I don't know why you're on a high horse. You guys are both, both in my opinion, idiots. Acosta then tries to argue, I gave him the plea deal because I didn't think that the trial, it would have been risky. But he says, you know that work release program where for 13 months he had work release so he was like basically not in prison. That was bs. That's what Acosta says. He says, I have been on the record as far back as 2011 saying that is not what was bargained for and it was not what we expected. Look, no regrets is a very hard question. You always look back and you say, what? What if we did what we did because we wanted to see Epstein go to jail, he needed to go to jail. That was the focus. A lawyer for one of the victims has come forward to say, unbelievable. Ignoring the facts of what actually occurred 12 years ago, doing his best to put a good light on a bad deal. It's been reported that Acosta has privately reached out to political allies for PR help about this whole debacle. And in another statement, Trump states about Acosta. What I do know is that he is a really, really. He's been a really, really great Secretary of Labor. Labor. The rest of it. We will have to look at it. The scandal becomes so bad that Acosta is more or less forced to resign. And Trump says, quote, I feel very badly actually, for Secretary Acosta because I've known him for as being somebody that works so hard and has done such a good job. I feel very badly about that whole situation. He felt the constant drumbeat of press about a prosecution which took place under his watch more than 12 years ago was bad for the administration, which he so strongly believes in, and he graciously tendered his resignation. That was him, not me. Trump says Acosta will always be a great, great secretary. Tremendous talent. He went to Harvard, a great student. Then you have Pam Bondi, who is the Attorney General of the US if you listen to our recent Luigi update. Pam Bondi. Pam Bondi is doing a lot of stuff that is, I think, gonna get her in trouble. I don't know. What do I know about the law? What do I know about anything? Right? But she's just. For someone who is the Attorney General of the United States, every lawyer tells you to shut up. And this woman will not shut up ever. Like, ever. She's got an opinion about everything. And, like, legally speaking, I feel like she takes no precautions for the Luigi case. I mean, she could jeopardize a lot about that case. So regardless of how you feel about Luigi Mangione, she's jeopardizing the case for the feds. It's a mess. It's mess. And so she decides earlier this year that it's just way too calm. The administration is bored. It's. They've only been making global news every other day with another incident, but this time she's just going to blow the door open. This is where the whole. Is there, is there not files? Starts happening.

B (63:52)

Oh, it's from her.

A (63:53)

Yes. So at one point, Pam Bondi, the Attorney General of the United States States. And she said, so, yeah, I've got, like, the entire Epstein file sitting on my desk right now just waiting to be released to the public. She says that she has gained possession of the Epstein files and, quote, it's sitting on my desk right now to review. That's been a directive by President Trump. In another interview later, she tells reporters breaking news. You're going to see some Epstein information being released. What kind of a lot of flight logs, a lot of names, a lot of information. Then in another report, she says, there are tens of thousands of videos of Epstein with children or see Sam, and then nothing is getting released.

B (64:38)

Tens of thousands, yes.

A (64:41)

So this is where I think that this was a very objectively dumb thing to Do. I don't know how else to say it. The Epstein files has always been a huge MAGA talking to point. Trump used it a lot during his presidential races, even this one, to say that the Democrats are covering up for predators like Epstein. They won't release the files, they're hiding things. And Bill Clinton's name has always largely been attached to Epstein in some way, shape or form since this case started gaining traction. So there has been a lot of. And Clinton is clearly a Democrat. So the right has kind of spun it in a way of like, this is a Democrat issue. He is connected to a lot of Democrats, he's friendly with a lot of Democrats. And even up until his death, he was friendly with a lot of high power Democrats. He donated to a lot of Democratic causes. I don't think that Epstein was politically aligned to anyone. I think Epstein was aligned with Epstein. I think he, when you read his emails, he switches up his tone depending on who he's talking to. He can be Republican one day, he can be Democratic the next day. It's whatever benefits Epstein. However, it does seem that he leans a little more left. He's never been like a strong Republican. He's never had a lot of Republican friends. And that might just be that Ghislaine Maxwell just has more connections to the party on the left. Right. But it's always been like a MAGA thing to release the files, drain the swamp, clean the swamp. I don't know. Right. And Pam Bundy is like, I got all the files. So of course their own MAGA bases are like, then do what you said you were gonna do, release them. And then they don't release them. In fact, in fact, the DOJ announces, hey, so there's actually no more files to be released. There is no Epstein list. Yeah. So I don't know what you guys are talking about. And so of course the megabase is like, what do you mean? Then what was on Pam Bondi's desk? Like imaginary files? Are we hallucinating manila folders with giant Confidential slapped across them and then they just vanish as if they're props from like a wizarding movie. More contradicting is that the head of the FBI, Cash Patel, he goes on to the Joe Rogan podcast and he says, what videos? Okay, he doesn't say that, but he basically says that it's actually more conflicting. He says, if I had a video, by the way, I'm just going to set the scene. They're like in what feels like a spaceship and the entire air quality, it's just, it's hazy with smoke. Because they're smoking Cuban cigars. No way. And like, it's just like the Director of the FBI smoking Cuban cigars.

B (67:21)

No way.

A (67:21)

Yeah. With like a bald former wrestler. And like the visual is just a lot. And it's just like. And Cash Patel is like smoking just like, I can't take it seriously. It just feels like he's at a kickback at a fraternity and he, he's like, if I had a video of a guy on an island committing a felony, you would know about it. Again, logical play out if there was a video of some guy or gal love the equality committing felonies on an island and I'm in charge. Don't you think you'd see it? Joe Rogan is like, right, if you have it, but you can't say that you have it. Even Joe Rogan is like, stop saying that. This. But you cannot say you have it. Right? Right. No. We're giving you everything we have. Everything we have so far. Have you guys gone over all the video that's available? Yeah, that's what I'm telling you. That's why it takes so much damn time. So are there videos or are there no videos? Are there files? Are there no files? Is there a list or is there no list? And then the DOJ comes out to state that they're not going to release anything because it would. All it would do is harm victims and it would release CCM into the world, which a lot of people, including Trump's own base, are arguing. Nobody asked for ccm. Like, this feels like a really weird attack on us. Not like us, but like, you know, you get it. Because like, nobody asked for csam, but they made it sound like everybody was asking for csam. And it's like, who in their right mind would demand that the DOJ release CSAM that we don't even know exists or not? But, like, we would never. Nobody in America would ask for that to be released. Furthermore, it is stated that Trump himself, he was on Alex Friedman podcast before his.

A (69:03)

When Lex Friedman is asking him, you know, the list of clients that went to the island has not been made public. Yeah, it's very interesting, isn't it? But yeah, I'd be, I'd be inclined to do the Epstein. I'd have no problem with it, but probably will be released. So if you're able to, I'll certainly have a look at it. So is there a list or not? Now MAGA has a full blown meltdown over this with Some in the MAGA base even turning on pin Pam Bondi saying that she lied. However, Trump does stand by Bondi at some point. He posts on Truth Social, Truth Social. What's going on with my boys? And in some case gals, they're all going after Attorney General Pam Bondi who is doing a fantastic job. We are on one team MAGA and I don't like what's happening. We have a perfect administration, the talk of the world and selfish people are trying to hurt it all over a guy who never dies, Jeffrey Epstein. For years it's Epstein over and over again. Why are we giving publicity to files written by Obama, crooked Hillary, Comey Brennan and the losers and criminals of the Biden administration who con the world with the Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia hoax. They created the Epstein files and now my so called friends are playing right into their hands. Why didn't these radical left lunatics release the Epstein files? If there was anything in there that could have hurt the MAGA movement, why didn't they use it? Let Pam Bondi do her job. She's great. A year ago our country was dead. Now it's the hottest country anywhere in the world, world. Let's keep it that way and not waste time and energy on Jeffrey Epstein, somebody that nobody cares about. And thank you for your attention on this matter. So in one post people are arguing, okay, so now you're saying that the Democrats wrote the files, but then you're saying why didn't they release the files? But if they wrote it, but then also like let's say hypothetically, the Democrats created these files and wrote it and forged it and lied about a bunch of Republicans being on there, why would they not have released it before Biden was out of office? Office because it's not like a surprise attack that he was out of office. So they should have released it then or like during the campaign, during the presidential race, they should have released it. So there has been argument about that. I think the biggest part that MAGA, the base has been struggling with, from what I can see is there is no consistency with the Epstein files. I mean, I think the left is not like the most consistent either. But as it pertains to the Epstein files, like the crazy swings of different storylines coming out of MAGA and the administration happen a lot for I think even Trump's own support base to keep up with. So it's like before they get into office, we're gonna drain the swamp, we're gonna release the files. The left are crooked, they get into office and it's like, why do y' all keep talking about Jeffrey Epstein? I'm so bored. Aren't y' all bored? Even though they were the ones that kept talking about Jeffrey Epstein all up until during the presidential campaign. So there's a of lot. There's a lot. Trump is also kind of lashing out, even going as far to say, let these weaklings continue forward and do the Democrats work, and don't even think about talking about our incredible and unprecedented success. But I don't want their support anymore. He's talking about maga, who's turning on him. Which leads everyone to be even more puzzled by the series of events. I mean, it seems like nobody has a stance that they want to take on this issue. Even the FBI director, Cash Patel. He's asked by Senator John Kennedy. So he's the Republic senator in Louisiana that everyone thinks is hilarious.

B (72:24)

Oh, okay.

A (72:25)

Yeah, I think he probably has some, I don't know, every politician, I'm just gonna say, I don't know, they probably have some history. But he has gone viral many a times for his sound bites. But he's asking Cash Patel who, if anyone, did Epstein traffic these young women to besides himself? Himself. There is no credible information, None. If there were, I would bring the case yesterday. And then Senator John Kennedy is like, are these files going to be released before I die? Because he's from Louisiana. And that went viral. And then he's like, yeah, if there's files to be released, I'm going to release them. And everyone says Cash Patel looks like he was recreationally, potentially. Maybe it's a prescription. He looks like he has an itchy nose.

A (73:10)

Yeah, okay. I don't know. I don't know. But he tells Senator John Kennedy that he believes that Epstein self exited at MDC Metropolitan. And that is not what he had previously said. Previously, Kash Patel said that something's not adding up about Epstein's death. So it seems like even about Epstein's death, they're like, this is weird. This is weird. And then people had to remind a lot of. Okay, this is just what netizens think. A lot of people were saying, I don't know, Epstein's death is very suspicious. Who probably has a lot to lose. Maybe the Clintons. Maybe the Clintons, right. And then, well, Epstein died when the Republicans were in the White House. So then people are like, wait. So then Cash Patel is like, maybe he did self exit. I don't know if that's the reason he changed his tune. Or maybe he was presented with evidence Otherwise, I don't think he was presented with the evidence of the CCTV cameras, because remember how that got released? And I'm going to go into that in a little bit, but the CCTV cameras that are not even outside of Jeffrey Epstein's cell were released to the public to show that nobody went in there and offed Jeffrey Epstein. However, there's like a missing three minutes and the metadata for the video, it's been edited, according to Wired.

B (74:23)

Crazy.

A (74:24)

But the biggest problem is for both parties. I mean, you are constantly two people away from someone who is involved with Epstein. Steve Bannon. So this is Trump's strategist messages Epstein about a documentary that they're making on. On Epstein, and he writes, can't redeem unredeemable. You are a lot of things which we will show, but you are not that.

B (74:46)

Wait, can you. Some more context?

A (74:49)

Yeah, I mean, okay, a lot of these emails are lacking context, but it seems like Steve Bannon is saying the whole thing about the documentary is addressing, you can't redeem unredeemable. And he's saying, you know, you're a lot of things, and we're going to show all of those things in the documentary, but you are not that. So at this point, there are speculative allegations that there were meetings that took place place solely dedicated to fixing Jeffrey Epstein's public image.

B (75:15)

When was this?

A (75:16)

This is like before 2018.

B (75:19)

Yeah, I see.

A (75:20)

Who.

B (75:20)

Who's making this documentary? He's making a documentary on Jeff.

A (75:24)

Yeah, Epstein. So he's part of a.

B (75:26)

Trying to help him.

A (75:27)

Yeah, okay. That are trying to do some damage control on his image. And he continues, you know. Yes, yes, of course. But we must continue. Rapists who traffics in female children to be raped by world's most powerful British men that can't be raised redeemed. That's why you let them blow up the argument while showing the 12. You did redeem. I don't know.

B (75:47)

Showing the 12.

A (75:48)

Yeah. These are all, like, cryptic. The documentary has never been released, but Steve Bannon is heavily intertwined with not only Trump, but Epstein. And if you look at all the release documents for the connections between Epstein and Bannon, they seem like they have quite a friendly friendship. I don't know if I could call it that. They seem close. Like, there are some emails where it seems like these people don't really talk often. And then there are some emails where it seems friendly, whatever you want to call it. Republican Marjorie Taylor Greene is asked in an interview, how big of a blowback is there right now in MAGA world specifically, and she states, it's pretty big, I have to be honest. And a lot of people in maga, they really want to know more information about the people that were involved with Jeffrey Epstein. And then Marjorie Taylor Greene resigns.

B (76:32)

This is all recent news.

A (76:33)

Yes. She resigns after she is accused of turning on Trump. She was one of the three Republicans that were needed to sign the Jeffrey Epstein Transparency Bill act, and she has been like a Day One Trump supporter.

B (76:49)

So three of them signed the bill.

A (76:51)

Yes, and she was one of them. And then now she has resigned.

B (76:57)

Wow.

A (76:57)

And everyone around Epstein, you know, they're not being arrested, they're not being investigated, but they are facing what feels like the closest thing to having a giant studio light shine bright into their retinas. Okay. Like a reckoning, as some netizens say. Prince Andrew, we talked about in the previous episode, he lost his prince title. He's been evicted from the royal accommodations. And this is clearly the harshest royal statement that we've ever seen thus far. In Ghislaine's 2025 proffer interview, which we're going to get into this too. So a proffer interview is when you go and you talk to the prosecutors, but anything you say in that interview cannot be used against you. Now, if you lie, you could be charged with perjury.

B (77:37)

That still applies, but that can still be public.

A (77:40)

Yes. So this was a proffer and they made it public for a reason. Well, that's what netizens think. This is In July of 2025, there is a proffer interview for two days. All of this has been made public by the doj. And we're going to talk about. We have the audio clips of Ghislaine Maxwell's voice and I'm talking about this in the next episode, but she is asked a bunch of questions. Now, you would think that this is going to be the most illuminating piece of evidence because Ghislaine Maxwell's sex trafficking trial was in federal court, so there was no livestream of it. It was at a time where everything felt a little more hush hush. We don't really know that much about it. Right. And she's never been as public. She has released statements through her attorneys, but. But this is truly like the biggest interview that she will do. However, the person that goes in to do the interview is a man named Todd Blanche. Todd Blanche, before he became the deputy. The official title is losing me. So don't. He's like the second in charge in the doj. Just know that, okay, he was actually previously Trump's personal attorney, which means, I mean, Ghislaine is just like. Ghislaine is just like President Trump is a great man. And this is all made public at a time when Magabase is turning on Trump. There's a lot coming out. The birthday book emails, Bubba. Like, lots of things are coming out. And it seems awfully convenient that Ghislaine is suddenly interviewed and she is saying great things about President Trump and stating that he truly has no association with Epstein in any sort of sinister or nefarious way. And then instantly after. Okay, instantly is a crazy word. Soon thereafter, Ghislaine Maxwell gets moved to a low security prison where they don't even have a fence.

B (79:33)

What does that mean?

A (79:34)

Like, it's barely a prison. It's like a dorm.

B (79:36)

And you say she has a pet.

A (79:38)

She did. There's like a puppy program. And apparently that she, yeah, she would like, watch the puppies. But she has been banned from that. But in this 2025 proffer interview. So anytime I reference the proffer interview, it's talking about this. And there are certain times where, I mean, anything Elaine Maxwell says, you need to take with probably as much salt as there is in the Pacific Ocean, but anything to do with politicians in power, I would even take it with extra salt. But she says, first of all, let's just stay date. I did not introduce Prince Andrew to Epstein. I did not introduce Prince Andrew to, you know, or Sarah Ferguson. That is a flat untruth. I'll start with that. And then she's like, okay, you know, Todd Blanche is like, I mean, I think it was actually Prince Andrew himself who suggested that he met Jeffrey Epstein through you. I think that's true, so. Well, yeah, I'm sure it's true because I'm English and I'm close friends, you know, my close friends are all close friends with Sarah Ferguson, Prince Andrew's ex wife and Andrew. And I think that my friendship, me being present or me is what made Andrew like Jeffrey. More like trust him or. I think that's the idea. She says that she didn't like Prince Andrew being friends with Jeffrey Epstein. She felt the friendship was pushed by Sarah Ferguson, Prince Andrew's ex wife. And Ghislaine states, I thought that Sarah was trying to put the moves on Jeffrey, if I'm being honest. And I thought the whole thing was annoying and I was pissed off.

B (80:58)

What is going on?

A (80:59)

Then Ghislaine goes on to state Virginia Giuffre's interactions with Prince Andrew, I'm gonna tell you right now, I'm so happy to tell you, I'm like excited, beyond excited. The allegation was that at my house in London in March, whatever that was, 2011, I believe we went to London especially so that Virginia could have a relationship with Prince Andrew. And she was paid a vast amount of money for that purpose. She then got in the bathroom in my house in London and had sexual relations with him. And then he left and she felt used and disgusting. Oh. And then after, you know that she met him several other times. But we will come to that. We will come to that. To that. Ghislaine says. So that weekend, that specific weekend, it's my mom's 80th birthday and I was in the country. And I have some cooperating evidence for that. So that takes care of the reason why we were in London. One of the reasons why her story, Virginia Druffai's, doesn't hold water. Then she says the next reasoning of why none of this can make sense, because her first reasoning was just rock solid, right? She says the second reason why, probably, maybe even more important reason, reason that I think it's absolute rubbish, is that Prince Andrew, the idea of him doing anything of that nature in my house, that's the size of this room, is so mind blowingly not conceivable to me as the man or what. I just can't. I can't. I know my house was tiny. I think it's 900 square feet in total. It is on three floors. However, it was a gorgeous little place, but it was the size of a nut. Virginia says that she had relations at the bathroom. First of all, the bath is quite, quite small. It's tight even for me. I put my brother in there to see what would happen. And it looks like a little blivet, which is a sausage in a skin, like very tight skin. So her description of whatever the two people were doing in the tub, that wouldn't work. Another reasoning why Virginia must be lying about this is, according to Ghislaine, Prince Andrew, he's so. He's so English. He's so. He had a tie on. What? No, I mean, this is like the ramblings of an old grandma. I don't even. I think even my grandma is more coherent than this.

B (82:57)

What's her energy like?

A (82:59)

Like very. Could you believe. Can you believe Virginia Giuffre? She actually. I'm gonna get into this. In the next part, she states that Virginia Giuffre was the trafficker and conveniently she states this after Virginia Duffrey's passing. Oh, I'm so mad. Yeah, she hates Virginia Duffre because Virginia Giuffre sued her for defamation. Virginia Giuffre was. I mean, she. She took Ghislaine down, and she took Prince Andrew down. So I guess if anyone wants to get away with committing alleged crimes against children, wear a tie. Nobody will catch you. They probably won't anyway if you're wealthy and powerful. So Ghislaine also thinks the photo of Virginia and Prince Andrew is fake. I don't know why she thinks that. I don't know where she came up with that. But Prince Andrew does end up paying Virginia Giuffre a $12 million settlement before Virginia Giuffre's passing, which, again, I'm not sure why. Maybe I'm naive, maybe I'm dumb, maybe I don't understand. I don't know. You would pay someone $12 million if you're completely and utterly innocent. The next person under fire is a billionaire by the name of Leon Black. According to one New York Times piece, Leon Black was paying Jeffrey Epstein tens of millions of dollars per year for tax advice. Over the years, it has been uncovered that Leon Black paid Epstein over $150 million.

B (84:16)

That's. That's just one person.

A (84:20)

Yeah. For what? I guess that depends on who you ask. Leon Black will tell you that it was strictly for tax and estate planning services. I didn't finish college either, so this is not me being snobby, but Epstein is a college dropout felon. Like, what do you mean? There are literal law firms that are built on tax planning for billionaires so that they can get away with paying as little taxes as possible and they will not charge you $150 billion. Eventually, Leon Black decides it's too much, and he decides that he does not see the ROI anymore, which leads to him seemingly pull away from Epstein, and Epstein starts throwing a fit. Here is a step by step list of what not to do when you want to get paid tens of millions of dollars. Call the other employees of the person paying you waste of space and accuse them of creating, quote, dangerous messes. And then call your boss's key kids the R word.

B (85:13)

What?

A (85:13)

Yeah, that is what Epstein does to Leon Black and just starts grilling him. And Leon Black, I guess, had a very interesting perception of Jeffrey Epstein, even saying things like he was almost like a James Bond villain.

B (85:27)

Wait, hold on. So what exactly happened? He. He start just like, emailing people this.

A (85:32)

Okay, so what happened was Leon Black is paying Jeffrey Epstein, like $40 million a year. He's gotten paid like $150 million over the year. And Leon Black decides maybe I don't want to pay you $40 million anymore. Epstein just starts grilling him with emails saying your other tax advisors are creating dangerous messes, they are a waste of space. He's emailing him like, I have to clean up the mess that your R worded kids created for your estate planning and I gotta untangle all of this, this, you better pay me this year. Essentially more or less. Yeah. And it's very interesting because that begs the question of why would billionaire Leon Black put up with this? Of a random little millionaire grilling him, yelling at him, calling his kids the R word. Yeah, yeah, well there, there's a lot. So according to the Times, they went through separate emails as well as court records and they found that a former girlfriend of Leon Black had accused him of Sarah. Leon Black goes to Epstein to allegedly ask about how to pay her millions of dollars to keep her quiet. Then in another lawsuit that was eventually dropped, a woman states that Leon Black had essayed her in Epstein's Manhattan townhouse, end quote. And for reasons that are unknown, Mr. Black wired hundreds of thousands of dollars to at least three women who were associated with Mr. Epstein. According to court documents and notes taken by congressional investigators that were shared with the Times. This is a quote from the Times piece. Now, Leon Black knew that Epstein had work, served time for soliciting sex work with a minor, to which Mr. Black told a reporter, I mean, he was with a 17 year old prostitute, got prosecuted for it and got put away for a year. I didn't think this was the end of the world, frankly, which is why I guess he let him work on the deal. Leon Black denies that Jeffrey Epstein worked on this deal. But according to emails from Epstein to others, he stated that he was working on the deal for Leon Black to purchase one of the most famous pieces of fine art in history, the Scream or a variation of the Scream, you know the Scream painting.

B (87:39)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

A (87:40)

He did purchase it for an insane $120 million. Which art lover or not, Definitely a tax strategy. However, I will say that Leon Black, he does seem to be very much into the arts. To be fair, he was very passionate and obsessive about his job as the chairman of, of the Museum of Modern Art in New York, which is another position that he gets pushed out of when all of this comes to light. Leon Black was a co founder of Apollo Global Management, a giant hedge fund. He gets Pushed out of that as well. Because of his ties to Epstein.

A (88:12)

Yeah. He continues to deny any wrongdoing. Not saying that there is any wrongdoing, just that he is consistent in denying wrongdoing. And a spokesperson for Black says to imply that Epstein somehow had influence over Mr. Black is false and. And patently absurd. Mr. Black has never abused a woman in his life, and any such suggestion is false. However, if someone is paying you $40 million a year, I just think it's weird. I imagine that if I'm getting paid $40 million a year by somebody, I would have quite an accommodating tone. You want me to climb a mountain? I'm gonna go climb a mountain. I'll go do that. But something about this email from Epstein to leon black from 2015 strikes me as odd. Epstein writes to him.

B (88:53)

This is while Epstein still working for him. Correct.

A (88:56)

Well, he hasn't gotten paid this year in 2015.

B (88:58)

Okay.

A (88:59)

He says, I never want to have any more uncomfortable money moments with you. I find it very distasteful. So to be clear, my terms are as follows. I will only work for the usual 40 million per year. It needs to be paid 25 million upon signing an agreement, 5 million every two months thereafter for six months. This can begin if I'm able to work in January. I will immediately stop work if the is payment. Payment is not received.

B (89:22)

That's crazy, you know, because if you're a billionaire and you're hiring someone to do your tax, you can literally hire any human being on this world to do that. Meanwhile, Epstein is like, pay up.

A (89:35)

Pay up right now.

B (89:36)

Don't like stop playing around like.

A (89:39)

And I don't want to talk about this with you ever again.

B (89:41)

Yeah.

A (89:42)

When it appears that Leon Black does not want to pay, Epstein sends another email. According to the Times that reads, to help out, I'm keenly aware of your current cash position. Position. So I will consider an in kind payment. Real estate in Miami. Art financing of my new plane, which allows you to spread over years. Or of course, the preferred cash. Now that doesn't work either. So Epstein tries threats. If you reflect on your financial life, you have been kept safe, had remarkable results and no disasters. And then later in an email, Epstein says, of course, regarding any non financial issues, I will always be there for you and will continue to be there. The best friend I can be. Which apparently he does. According to the Times, he introduces Leon Black's son to Woody Allen, of all people, to learn about film editing, which that would be the last person I would want My son to spend time with is Woody Allen. But okay, you're that powerful and that wealthy, you can't get Christopher Nolan on the phone. I mean, not to get him involved with such names, but I'm just kind of confused why someone would want their son to work so closely with Woody Allen. Now Leon Black makes an appearance in the birthday party book. This is again from 2003. So their friendship lasts from 2003 to at least 2015. And Leon Black writes Epstein a poem romantic. There's this portion talking about girls writing five decades, Elle or a half century by birds and by bucks, C's and M's, we don't know. Are his keys blonde, red or brunette spread out geographically with his net of fish. Jeff's now the old man in the the sea. Love and kisses, Leon.

A (91:15)

And truly, because only five powerful people in the world exist. In another email which appears to be excerpts from Michael Wolf's book Siege Trump Under Fire. Now, Michael Wolf is that reporter who hates Trump, but is also like Epstein's best bud, right? And I could be wrong. I did not want to spend the $2 on Kindle to verify that this quote is. But from the email from the House Committee Committee Oversight Committee, it looks like it's from Siege. It says, like Michael Wolf, Siege, and it's a narrative book. Formatted text Considering Michael Wolf is not someone that I want to support, I can't be sure it got published in Siege or if it's part of Siege. But it states that Leon Black, who was head of Apollo Global Management, the hedge fund, provided Kushner Companies. This is a family real estate group that was managed by Jared Kushner. Kushner Trump's son in law, Ivanka Trump's husband, also billionaire. And Apollo Global Management had Provided Kushner companies $184 million in financing while Jared Kushner's father was in federal prison. So there was a lot of drama during Trump's first presidential term that Jared Kushner was heavily involved in the White House, remember? And Ivanka Trump was heavily involved and there was a lot of blowback there. And I think that someone from Apollo Global Manager Management, not Leon Black, I think they were trying to get him some sort of position in the White House. And there was a rift between Trump and his son in law because he felt like deals were being done that didn't involve him, didn't benefit Trump really is the allegation is the sp. I mean, this could be just like a fanfic for all I know. I don't know.

B (92:58)

Okay.

A (92:59)

All I know is I can. I don't know if this is accurate. I don't know where it's from. I can just tell you that it's in the documentary dump. The document dump does not mean that it's factually accurate. These are just.

B (93:09)

So what does that mean then?

A (93:10)

It just means that everyone is all connected to everybody.

B (93:14)

Okay?

A (93:14)

So take that as you will. It just feels like there are only 10 people that feed off of each other in the worst ways possible. But like I said, Leon Black denies any wrongdoing. And the time states that going through court filings, they were able to pinpoint, at least again, three women who had been paid by Leon Black who were also listed in court filings as either either Epstein's associates or his victims. So why would. Why would there be a crossover there? Leon Black's reps did not answer the questions about why these women were paid. But then it gets crazier. If you refer to an NBC News article From 2023, there was a federal lawsuit. A woman accuses Leon Black of r wording her when she was 16 years old and she has Mosaic down syndrome and autism. And it was alleged in the lawsuit that this took place at Epstein's Manhattan townhouse. Leon Black's attorneys have called the allegations frivolous and sanctionable. But a huge crossover here is that Doug Wigder Cassie VENTURA FINDS ATTORNEY FOR Sean Combs CASE Cassie's attorney is the one that filed the lawsuit in which Leon Black's attorney states these vicious and defamatory lies masquerading as allegations have been intentionally manufactured by the Wichter Law Firm firm as part of the firm's vendetta against Mr. Black for vigorously and successfully defending himself over the past two years. These allegations about an incident that supposedly took place 20 years ago are totally made up, entirely uncooperated and as pleaded, squarely violate the statute of limitations. Later, Leon Black and his team will sue Wigder LLP the law firm. It's a mess, but, yeah, it's just a mess. One other notable detail in the Leon Black saga, though, is that according to the New York Times, Leon Black agreed to pay the Virgin Islands, the US Virgin Islands where Jeffrey Epstein owned his island, Epstein Island, $62.5 million to be released from any potential claims that could potentially come up from the territory's three year investigation into the trafficking ring run by Epstein. So the territory is like we're going to investigate because he owned an island in the US Virgin Island Lens. And apparently he's sex trafficking.

B (95:28)

Huh. So. So wait, what? So black paid?

A (95:32)

So black is like I'm gonna pay you $60.5 million and I 16 or 60, 62.5.

B (95:40)

Huh.

A (95:41)

And I never want to deal with any of this. And the US Virgin Islands came to a deal.

B (95:48)

So he's paid a lot of money.

A (95:51)

Yeah, maybe I'm naive. I don't know. That just seems like an unfathomable amount of money. So I don't even know what I would do if I had that kind of money. But I believe if I didn't do anything wrong, I don't think I would just give it up. But that is, perhaps I am fiscally irresponsible. I don't even have that kind of money to give. So maybe, I don't know.

A (96:16)

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A (99:02)

Then you have Leslie Wexner, the lawn top friend, client and alleged name on the Epstein list. The billionaire that owns Elle Brands that includes Victoria's Secret, Bath and Body Works. There's a lot on him in our original Epstein series, but he's also featured in the Birthday book writing Dear Jeffrey, I wanted to get you what you want. So here it is. Happy Birthday your friend Leslie. And above it is just a hand drawing of a woman's chest.

A (99:30)

Wow. The Birthday book also contains a short handwritten card from Bill Clinton. It reads, Happy 50th. It's reassuring, isn't it? To have lasted as long all across all years of learning and knowing adventures to have your childlike curiosity, the drive to make a difference in the solace of friends. Bill Clinton?

B (99:52)

Really?

A (99:53)

Yeah. Now I will say it's the the key word that everyone is picking apart is the childlike curiosity. Everything else it's compared to other notes in the book. It's not as filled with hidden secrets and feels like innuendos. It just feels the childlike curiosity is odd. Clinton has been associated with Epstein to reporters. Trump has also egged it on by saying things like you should focus on Clinton. You should focus on the President of Harvard, the former president of Harvard. You should focus on some of the hedge fund guys. I'll give you list. These guys lived with Jeffrey Epstein. They should focus on the fact that Larry Summers from Harvard, that Bill Clinton, who you know very well and lots of other really close friends of Jeffrey Epstein's should be spoken about. And they should speak about them because they don't talk about them. They talk about me. I have nothing to do with the guy. You ought to be speaking about Bill Clinton, who went to the island 28 times. I never went to the island. We have no clue if this number is accurate or if 28 just sounds better than 27 or 29. I have no clue. Clue. But it is an oddly specific number. And if anyone would know, I would imagine Trump has the power and the clearance to know, but he could also just be pulling it out of his butt. However, Bill Clinton has denied going to the island. And in her deposition from 2016, Virginia does talk about Bill Clinton and how Epstein has traveled quite a bit with Bill Clinton on their private plane, but she was never in attendance. She did attend one dinner specifically with Bill Clinton that was she was allegedly invited to. And she never insinuates any wrongdoing on Bill Clinton's parts. She never witnessed seeing anything strange, just like she did with Trump. She never witnessed. And that's not to say that she is not being truthful or that's not to say that nobody else did. This is just what Virginia Giuffre wrote in her book Virginia States in her deposition from 2016, it does concern me that Vanity Fair wanted to do a piece on me, considering that Bill Clinton walked into Vanity Fair and threatened them not to write sex trafficking articles about his good friend Jeffrey Epstein. Like that was like a thing in her deposition. What? We don't know if this is true. What? We don't know if this is a rumor that she heard. We don't know what.

B (102:03)

That's crazy.

A (102:05)

Then in an email to the ambassador of Turkey to Turkey, Tom Barrick, Epstein emails, Tom, send photos of you and child. Make me smile. Now, Tom Barrick does have six children, but very creepy nonetheless. Tom Barrack responds, hope you're good. Let's catch up. To which Epstein then responds, hope you're good. Photos look good. FYI, I receive many calls a week about both Donald.

A (102:36)

Beauty contest, Mar a Lago, et cetera. And click Clinton from reporters. Less so recently with Clinton. But my answers are always, I have nothing to say or I try to ignore altogether. A few times I have been ambushed on the street with questions, but am more careful now.

B (102:52)

Why is he Saying that to him.

A (102:54)

I guess to try, I don't know. Some people insinuate all of these as like sly threats. Some people insinuate it as like, hey, I kept my mouth shut. Reward me.

B (103:05)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

A (103:06)

And some people just say he just sounds weird. And maybe we should not draw anything because we don't know what any of this is. But the most interesting connection between Epstein and Clinton is the painting in the recent release document. Because remember the painting of Bill Clinton in heels and he's sitting in the Oval Office on an armchair with his legs draped over the side. In the release documents recently Epstein emails someone and that person is rejected. But Epstein tells, tells them, quote, hang the Clinton painting in place of the artwork so that people walking by can smile. What.

A (103:44)

What does Ghislaine say about Clinton in her 2025 proffer interview? She says, quote, I went to the White House with Epstein once for I think it was for a historical like one of those benefits. And I met the President then, but then like a thousand other people shook his hand. And then she says that her and Clinton had a very strong mutual friends friend, the then mayor of Miami, Philip Levine. Philip and the President were very good friends and Philip was. And I were very good friends. So I actually was introduced to the President post his coming out of the White House and became friendly with him because of Philip Levine.

A (104:17)

This is all said very nonchalantly, but you have to remember that Ghislaine Maxwell was present at Chelsea Clinton's wedding.

A (104:28)

Bill and Hillary Clinton's daughter.

B (104:30)

Uh huh.

A (104:31)

So it seems like she's just like, I mean, yeah, we had like mutual friends. I met him at a White House event once, but there was like a thousand other people. And then once he came out of the White House, you know, we had like a good mutual friend, but like you were present at their daughter's wedding.

A (104:48)

Then there is the whole email about Hillary Clinton doing naughties with Vince. Vince Foster was a White House council member who. There were rumors that he had an affair with Hillary Clinton and then Vince Foster was found dead of self exit. So what? But the email doesn't say anything other than Clinton was doing naughties with Vince is what Epstein is alleging to somebody now on the other side of the aisle. The other major politician wrapped up in all of this is clearly Trump. Trump has been named in the massive document dump from November Elite. Like it's a lot of times, hundreds of times thus far. It's pretty evident that Trump and Epstein have some sort of long standing relationship when that Soured. Why that soured, how it soured is unclear. How deep their friendship was, how often they hung out, how much did they know about each other's personal lives? That is also unclear. But there is evidence of friendly relations. There's archived footage from NBC that shows Trump inviting a ton of NFL cheerleaders tomorrow. And you can see Trump, who was 45 years old at the time, dancing with these cheerleaders. And then he spots Epstein, who walks in, invites him in. They're off to the side just watching the cheerleaders. Trump is pointing at one of them, saying, she's hot. Epstein is laughing. And it's pretty clear that at some point they were friendly. Epstein was present at Trump's second wedding to Myla Maples. But also a lot of people were present to that. So, I mean, they're New York social media, socialites. He was also present at the opening of the Harley Davidson Cafe in New York. There is a photograph of Epstein next to Trump and Ivanka as well as Eric Trump, who are very clearly children at that point. They were pictured at events at Mar a Lago together, more notably Victoria's Secret events. Victoria's Secret, again, owned by L Brand's Leslie Wexner. Now, the interesting thing is I think MAGA was fine with all of this because most of these documented instances of them being friendly with were before he took that plea deal. So there is this hope that the person in office is had no clue and once they had a clue, stopped hanging out with Epstein. Right? Or maybe they even stopped way before the crimes. Maybe they started getting an inkling of it. Which means that Trump should release the files because he always made it appear that Bill Clinton was the main one in the file. So the Democrats are protecting Epstein and the high up officials. And clearly Trump is not fond of Democrats. Jeffrey Epstein in another statement. Okay, so back in like the early 2000s, this is before Jeffrey Epstein took that plea deal. But there were whispers probably around Palm beach that something was amiss. But Trump has been quoted by saying, I've known Jeff for 15 years, terrific guy. He's a lot of fun to be with. It's even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do. And many of them are on the younger side. No doubt about it. Jeffrey enjoys his social life, life. Clearly now he has changed his tune, which he says things more along the lines of, well, I knew him like everybody else in Palm beach knew him. I mean, people in Palm beach knew him. He was a fixture in Palm Beach. I was not a fan of his that I can tell you. I was not a fan of his. It's understandable that people have questions, but it's weird because Trump starts getting very agitated when people keep asking, stating that this whole Epstein thing is so boring. Why are we still talking about it? It's pretty boring stuff. It's sort of. But it's boring. I don't understand why it keeps going. Which sounds rather defensive for someone who has nothing to do with Epstein. Another time he responds to a reporter saying, are you still talking about Jeffrey Epstein? This guy's been talked about for years. Are people really still talking about this guy? This guy is a creep. This is unbelievable. It just seems like a desecration. I will say that in the recent document release, there are a lot of references between Epstein and others alluding to the idea that Epstein has information on Trump Trump that Trump would not want out. In an email thread to Kathy Rimmeler, she's the former White House counsel for President Barack Obama and she is the current chief legal officer at Goldman Sachs. She sends Epstein a link to the New York Times piece about Trump's crimes. This is in 2018. So this is recent. This is like way after the public knows about Epstein, Trump is in office. He's serving for his first trial. Epstein is alive, he's not in jail. Kathy sends this link to Epstein and the article is just talking about why Trump needs to be impeached. Epstein responds, I think he makes the argument that it was his Trump's money making it not illegal because it's about campaign funds. And there was a whole debacle though he said he only found out afterwards. Question mark. I will say Jeffrey Epstein is not very coherent in his emails, but he's just kind of like, oh yeah, this is what Trump's team are trying to say. And then he emails. I'm sure his accountant has flipped. Anyway, I did talk in detail to Starr yesterday regarding. Regarding indictments, how Trump can make a deal. Special Counsel Clinton's trash can. Yes. Star gave me more. Yech. I don't know. Okay. It's just like the ramblings of someone that is unhinged. Kathy responds more coherently. It makes no difference whether it was his money. Issue is failure to disclose plus fact that he has lied his ass off about it makes clear that he knew it was illegal. Epstein writes back, you see, I know how dirty Donald is. My guess is that non lynch lawyers New York biz people have no idea what it means to have your fix or flip. Yeah. Then she, in another email Thread Kathy, again, former White House counsel, emails Epstein, Trump is so gross. Epstein responds worse in real life and up close, which these are exchanged in 2017. So I mean, Kathy would have known that Epstein is also gross. But what is new at this point, everyone's a disappointment on both sides of the aisle. It really doesn't matter. And if you're concerned that perhaps she didn't know and did not vet Epstein before talking to him, I highly doubt it. But there is another email exchange between the two of them where Kathy says something along the lines of most girls do not have to worry about this crap. So she's talking about how she has to worry about like all of these different things anyway, kind of pick me. But Epstein responds, girls, careful. I will renew an old habit.

B (110:53)

Oh my God.

A (110:54)

Then he goes on to list a bunch of names, random names that are probably not random at all. I think a good chunk of these people probably don't know what he's doing or they might know what he's doing and they're not gonna say anything, but they're not involved. Does it make it right? Probably not. But it's the fact that like he is a professional connector. He knows how to connect everybody. And that's why JP Morgan was in so much shit. And they had to fight fork up hundreds of millions of dollars to Epstein victims because JP Morgan, the argument is that they should have known that all of Epstein's funds were suspicious because they were working with him even after his conviction in 2009. But Epstein was allegedly introducing them to people like Bill Gates and introducing them to very high profile clients.

B (111:47)

JP Morgan.

A (111:48)

Yes. And there was like one banker that he specifically worked with. I mean, I don't want to say banker, high up executive that he specifically worked with and was very close with Jess Staley. He's also in the emails where they make a lot of Disney references. They make like Disney princess references, which some netizens think, you know, what does that code for? We don't know. But there was a lot of, of drama there too because I think at one point they wanted him to become. They were trying to get Jamie Dimon out of JP Morgan and into the White House so that Jess Staley could take over as chairman of JP Morgan. But that didn't end up working out. Jess Staley ends up getting, I don't know if he resigned, but there was a lot of drama because of the Epstein thing. And then he, he, I don't know if he currently is, but he then moved on to be CEO of Barclays. Yeah. So very powerful people. Yeah. Now, this is very cryptic, but in another text thread that was released, an unidentified person. This is in 2018. So again, a year before Epstein's subsequent arrest and death, they text Epstein, it will all blow over. They're really just trying to take down Trump and doing whatever they can to do that. Epstein responds, yes, thanks. It's wild because I am the one able to take him down. In another email thread, Epstein writes, prince Andrew and Trump today too funny. So this is when Trump went to London and I guess met with Prince Andrew. And then another email, recall Prince Andrew accuser came out of Mar A Lago. So all of these emails leads people to wonder, is this Epstein just bluffing or does he really have something on Trump that can end him? And what would he possibly have on the Prince president? So far, the emails, they keep alluding to information, but there's not really any information, at least in the emails. For example, Epstein was in a very close contact with another reporter, this one from the New York Times, Thomas Landon. And also, like, not a great person apparently. But he is asking Epstein for information about Trump and Epstein responds, read my airplane logs and Hawaiian Tropic Con contest. Have them ask my house man about Donald almost walking through the door, leaving his nose print on the glass as young women were swimming in the pool. And he was so focused, he walked straight into the door. Then another email, research how he paid for Mar A Lago. Matt was his bagman. Trump shuttle Trump casino review. SEC filing to see back dates of taking money. Also, Thomas Landon, in my opinion, is a weasel. People make it seem like all of these reporters are messaging Epstein because they're going undercover to take Epstein down, down. But he's asking Epstein all these questions, almost treating him like an advisor. He would even ask him things like, if you knew Trump was going to win the election, how would you position your portfolio? Thomas Landon also asks Epstein if he wants to get connected with the guy who runs SoftBank.

B (114:45)

The Japanese.

A (114:46)

Yeah, yeah. And this is like full blown offer from Thomas Landon. It was not requested by Epstein. It's almost like, here you go, let me connect you to another powerful person. Why would you want to do that? Probably not for victims or for the greater good good, but what do I know, right? He also asks Epstein for charitable donations. Regardless. The New York Times has since released a statement writing, Thomas Landon Jr. Or Landon. Thomas Jr. Has not worked at the time since early 2019 after editors discovered his failure to abide by our ethical standards. So as with everything that is involving Trump and Epstein, the story changes nonstop. Another aspect of that is the ever evolving storyline of why Epstein and Trump are no longer friends. At first the story was Epstein was behaving in an inappropriate manner towards a girl that worked at the club, so Trump defriended him. Then the story became that Trump and Epstein got into a fight over a real estate deal, so they had a falling out. Now the more recent updated version, which is that Epstein poached a girl from Trump's Mar A Lago spa staff, which is unacceptable. We know this to now be Virginia Giuffre. But Trump states he stole people who work for me. I have a great spa, one of the best spas in the world at Mar A Lago. And people were taken out of the spa hired by him. I think she worked at the spa. I think think so. I think that was one of the people he stole her. And by the way, she had no complaints about us, as you know. Then at another point he explains again, people would come and complain, this guy is taking people from the spa. I didn't know that. And then when I heard about it, I told him, I said, listen, we don't want you taking our people. Whether it was spa or not spa, I don't want him taking people. But interestingly, in an email from 2019, Epstein writes to a third party. Trump asked me to resign from Mar A Lago. Never a member, ever. Of course he knew about the girls as he asked Elaine to stop. And this was when Epstein probably didn't know that A, he was going to be arrested, B he was going to die, and that C, that his emails would be released by the House Oversight Committee. Now, there is a big deal being made about whether Virginia named Trump as an abuser or not. And clearly she did not. And she only had nice things to say about him. And that is very much her experience. And she's quite transparent and seems transparent in all of her statements. But that does not mean that Trump has not been accused by others. Maria Farmer is a survivor of Jeffrey Epstein's. She alleges that on one occasion she was at Epstein's office. This was in the 90s. Trump gets there too. He starts eyeing her up and down and doesn't stop until Epstein comes and tells him, she's not for you. She alleges that Trump would say, she looks young. I thought she was 16. Another woman alleges that Trump essayed her at an Epstein house party in 1994 when she was 13 years old. She did drop the case after she Started receiving death threats. And four days after she drops her civil suit, Trump becomes president for the first time. Well, he gets elected, but he's president elect. There is a picture from the birthday book that depicts Epstein and a few of his buddies holding up one of those giant checks. And it's made out to be $22,500 and it's paid to the order of Jeffrey Epstein, signed DJ Trump, Donald J. Trump. I will say it looks like some sort of competition or tournament probably held up mar a lot. But the writing under the picture reads, jeffrey showing early talents with money and women sells. Fully depreciated, Redacted to Donald Trump for 22.5K. We're assuming the redacted is a victim's name.

B (118:10)

Fully depreciated.

A (118:12)

Yeah.

B (118:12)

That's crazy.

A (118:14)

The rest of the caption reads, showing early people skills too. Even though I handled the deal, I didn't get any of the money or the girl. And there are rumors that because of Epstein working very closely and there being rumors that Epstein was trafficking. There are allegations that Epstein was trafficking women from Eastern Europe. Some people have come to the conspiracy theory that perhaps a very powerful woman it was introduced through. I think that that is so far a conspiracy. There has. I couldn't find too much in any of the release documents. I don't really see many official sources talking about anything of that sort. It seems so far to be existing in the TikTok and Reddit sphere primarily. But to make matters more difficult for Maga, Trump very, very curiously had recently said to reporters in the press room about Ghislaine, I just wish her well. Frankly, I've met her numerous times over the years, especially since I lived in Palm beach and I guess they lived in Palm beach, but I wish I her well, whatever it is. Later he doubles down because everyone's like, what do you mean you wish her well? And he says, she's now in jail. Yeah, I wish her well. I wish a lot of people well. Good luck, you know, let them prove somebody was guilty. Which is an odd thing to say for someone that is a convicted sex trafficker. But more on that later, because like I said, Todd Blanche is going to go interview Ghislaine Maxwell. It's a mess. And it's even made more confusing by the fact that sometimes in these emails, Epstein would defend Trump. So in. In 2016, Linda Stone emails him a rather lengthy rant about American politics. She's based in Germany and she writes, of course, not everybody who voted for Trump is sexist or racist. But on some level, they didn't care if he is. He knew how to gather momentum with the discourse he chose. And even if he changes his tone, he has let loose a storm. I don't see Hillary Clinton as being at fault. I see the growth of nationalism all throughout the world, not just in the usa, and an underestimation of the fear that non Hispanic whites have about the trajectory that they are on to becoming minority in the US and other European countries. To which Epstein responds, Trump is neither sexist or racist. That is the point and in fact the truth. He says things to get elected and it worked. Nothing more talking heads, goofy. But also, there is another email thread from 2018 where Epstein is talking to a foreign politician and he writes to the foreign politician. I think you might suggest to Putin that Lava Lavrov can get insight on talking to me. Churkin used to, but he died. Lavrov is a huge Russian prominent. He's like a foreign minister of Russia. He's a very prominent in the world of global politics and he just replaced somebody who died. So Epstein is like, hey, can you reach out to Putin, Vladimir Putin, and tell him maybe Lavrov should talk to me to get information about Trump on Russia and America relations?

B (121:07)

That is okay.

A (121:09)

Yeah. And he writes this about Trump. He understands Trump after our conversation. So he's like, you know, the diseased, you know, foreign politician that I was working with in Russia, he understood Trump because I talked to him about Trump and I said, quote, it's not complex. He must be seen to get something. It's that simple. That's what he says about Trump.

B (121:29)

He must be seen to get something. Oh, like Trump needs to win. Like get something.

A (121:33)

Something. Yeah. But more alarming is that there is an email between Epstein and a man named Lawrence Krauss. It reads, is the South Pole getting colder and more ice. This is Epstein. Is it accurate to say that climate changes can only be measured over long periods, 20 years or more? I'm currently with the Trump people in Palm beach and when asked, I say I don't have any idea if this is global warming as a threat that can be reduced currently carbon taking machines. I guess if that really is a concern, it's kind of rambly. But he says in 2016 he's with the Trump team in Palm beach talking about climate change. Kraus responds to talk about global warming, but it's just, it's odd that he said that he was in Palm beach with Trump people. There's another email where he insinuates that he's with the Trump crowd. So I don't know if that just means he's with very passionate MAGA individuals such as Steve Ban or whether that means he's with the Trumps, with the Trump's friends, with people that are elected into not elected, but appointed into the White House, or if he's with Trump himself. I don't know. I'm assuming if he was with Trump himself, he would say with Trump, but I don't know. I don't know. And I think that the release of the files clarified a lot of things, but there's still so many questions and we are approaching the deadline for the Epstein files. So I guess we'll just have to see where this goes. I mean, this might be the only issue that both parties agree on. To the point where a mile from the White House recently there were these two bronze statues that were erected of Trump and Epstein frolicking together, dancing. It was quickly removed, but it just seems like both sides, everyone wants some answers and they want it soon. So with that being said, that is where we are now with the Epstein files. Let me know your thoughts, stay safe and I will see you in the next one. Welcome back to listen to your heart. I'm Jerry. And I'm Jerry's heart. Today's topic, Repatha Evolocumab heart. Why'd you pick this one? Well, Jerry, for people who have had a heart attack like us, diet and exercise might not be enough to lower the risk of another one. Okay. To help know if we're at risk, we should be getting our ldlc, our bad cholesterol checked and talking to our doctor. I'm listening. And if it's still too high, Repatha can be added to a statin to lower our LDL C and our heart attack risk. Hmm. Guess it's time to ask about Repatha. Do not take Repatha if you're allergic to it. Serious allergic reactions can occur. Get medical help right away if you have trouble breathing or swallowing, swelling of the face, lips, tongue, throat or arms. Common side effects include runny nose, sore throat, common cold symptoms, flu or flu like symptoms, back pain, high blood sugar and redness, pain or bruising at the injection site. Listen to your heart.

B (124:21)

Ask your doctor about Repatha.

A (124:23)

Learn more@repatha.com or call 1-844-repatha we all take good care of the things that matter. Our homes, our pets, our cars. Are you doing the same for your brain? Acting early to protect brain health may help reduce the risk of dementia from conditions like Alzheimer's disease. Studies have found that up to 45% of dementia cases may be prevented or delayed. By managing risk factors, you can change make brain health a priority. Ask your doctor about your risk factors and for a cognitive assessment, learn more@brainhealthmatters.com.