Narrator (67:17)
No, this is not Pam. But he's saying like my wife fully believes this stuff still to this day. So now netizens are divided on who to mainly blame. Everyone's to blame, but who is the most to blame? Has been a conversation. There's a huge group of people that are concerned that Jody might get away with less time and repercussions than Ruby because of a huge focus of this case has been rub newbie for obvious reasons. These are her children that she has the duty to protect. That she failed. But additionally she has the YouTube audience. A lot of people are terrified that if Jody gets out she's going to go straight back into counseling. One Redditor explains that her husband was in the group counseling for seven years. They spent over $100,000 on Jody's counseling programs and over the years it just taught them, brainwashed them into thinking that the husband was this perverse monster that needed to be be watched out for. Jody would also just do some really odd things. She said. One week, one especially odd week my husband attended. One man was struggling with looking at gay porn and they decided this man wasn't actually gay but just hadn't received enough healthy touch from his father growing up. So Jody said the cure to this healthy masculine touch. They made my husband lay down and cuddle him, spooning him the whole meat it was just strange. Men would switch off every week who were supposed to cuddle him. So every week they had a different person cuddling him. So a lot of people think that Jodie is doing all of this because she is very upset at the world, that she grew up in a conservative household that did not allow her to be who she is, which is not an excuse. It just seems like this is a reoccurring theme that keeps happening and she keeps taking her anger out on people. Sherry writes in her book A Part of Me pitied her. A repressed, self loathing, deeply damaged woman trapped in an environment in which she felt compelled to conceal her true nature. Surrounded by women who she couldn't have, women who were married to men she resented. In her mind, this was her only path to justice. Crush the sperm donors and liberate the females. Other people think Jody's bad, bad. But it's still Ruby and Kevin's duty to protect their own kids. A lot of netizens say that you can brainwash each other. Yeah, you can all you want. But nobody could brainwash them into harming their kids. That's what netizens with children feel. One person comments, when the little boy was asked who put the duct tape on him, who poured pepper and honey into his wounds, he told authorities it was his mom. Another netizen writes, she was happy for the kids to be abused until she was caught. Then it was someone else's fault and she was controlled by Jody. I think she's worse than Jody. She allowed her own children to be abused and that's gross. Or another reading. Does she not realize she's worse than Jody? These are her kids. She tortured her kids for years and enjoyed it. One netizen comment says, crazy that when Jody was possessed, she invited her into their home and Ruby slept in the bed with her, comforting her. But when her kids are, quote, possessed, she chained them up and almost took their lives. I would say that most netizens believe that both Jody and Ruby are equally at fault. And yes, Jody has been wanting to do this to people. She had been doing this to people like her own niece, Jesse Hildebrandt. But Ruby clearly had something deep inside of her that let this happen. Adam, another victim of Jodie's from Part 2, says, now here's what I do want to say. I don't like Ruby Frankie, but I don't know her. I just think that you have to be a selfish person to fall for Jody's stuff. She's got a certain kind of carrot that Gets a certain kind of people, people. But Ruby. Frankie would have never done any of this stuff if Jody Hildebrand hadn't been the mastermind and just completely created this. Sherry, Ruby's own daughter, states in the new documentary. Looking back on it, I don't think Ruby's a good person. I think she was already an abusive mother before. And then obviously it escalated dramatically in the last couple of years. And the fact that Ruby went as far as she did, I wouldn't blame that on Jody. She just set off things in Ruby that were already in her. Her heart. But one person that does not get talked about as much is a woman named Pam Botcher. Pam is the president of Connections foundation, who also happens to be a mother of seven and a grandmother of 14. If you go on the Connections website, it's all about Jody, Pam and Ruby. They were known as the three Musketeers. Now, not that Kevin is arguably the most credible person according to the Internet in this case, but in one police interview, he mentions again, if they find the pen papers, quote, if you're interested in Pam Botcher, that's going to tie Pam Bottcher to all of this. What's in those documents? What's in the pen papers? And Pam is accused by netizens of going in and getting rid of the pen papers before the police get access to them. The two teenage daughters were found not in the Frankie house. So the two youngest kids were found in Jody Hildebrandt's house, which was like 300 miles away from the Frankie home. The Frankie house was empty. Police knocked down the doors, they searched the entire place, cleared it. The kids are not in there. There. The kids are eventually found in Pam Botcher's house. They track him down. They find the two middle children, the two teenage daughters, and they're asking Pam, why do you have these children with you? And she says, well, I'm having guests coming. And she came and she did some cleaning for me. Talking about the teenage girls, that is crazy. Pam and her husband are standing in the doorway, not letting the officers in, but also not leaving the house, which the officers are instructing. The officers do have a warrant for Pam's home, but. But it's in his car. And he doesn't want to risk anything happening to the girls who are right there in the living room behind Pam and her husband. So they're demanding, like, we just need to see that the girls are okay. Like, we have a warrant. It's in the car. Like, we gotta. And again, maybe some people are Rude. But I would be concerned. I would not be annoyed or ticked off if the police were making sure two children in my home were okay. However, the part that really gets me about Pam is the officer is trying to explain that she's just detained. She's not under arrest. They simply have to make sure the children are okay. They say, as long as she's not tied up and bound because. And Pam responds, I did make her scrub the floor and they vacuumed and stuff and I have company coming tonight out from Costa Rica. But she, she did, she did do this on her own free will. Pam claims Ruby called her earlier to ask her to pick up the girls because she had a family emergency. Didn't go into detail on what it was, according to Pam. Pam continues, she said, would you mind watching the girls while I' gone? She was leaving. I said, yeah, I did that because I need some help cleaning. I just have house guests coming tonight. So I said, yeah, that'd be great. Could they come clean? And she said, yeah, they'd love to do that. Do you remember in part one, Ruby was obsessed with them cleaning and like, they would clean the baseboards. That would be punishment for them. Yeah, yeah, it's crazy. Also, Pam's husband has the energy of a potato that has all of those green sprouts and is probably poisonous. He is told that Ruby Frankie, the mother of the two teenage girls that he likely just watched scrub his floors, was arrested for child abuse. He says, the biggest thing that bugs me is that my wife is sitting in a patrol car. That's the thing that gets me. I feel bad for my wife. She's sitting there and this is the first time in the world that I've ever had a police car sitting in my driveway. I got all the neighbors driving by. Does nobody in this entire town have their head screwed on straight? Who cares about what John from Dallas down the street thinks? Get a grip, everyone. Your friend was arrested for child abuse and you have two of her kids in your home. He also goes on a whole unsolicited rant about drug testing. He comments that there's so many officers at his house now. This is like what happens when there's some big drug bust or something. You can run a background check on me. We're not too concerned with that right now, sir. Been drug tested? I've been everything. You know is that the only way to detain someone, though, is to put them in hand cuffs? Again, concerned about his wife. Pam is fine. Pam's a grown up. It's fine. Is there not one single adult in this case that cares about children more than themselves and fellow adults? I'm so perplexed. Pam's gonna be fine. She's in the back of a cop car, ac blasting. They probably have the radio on for her. She's fine. And then he goes back to, at least you guys. At least you guys don't have the lights flashing, right? That would be even worse. I never had a police car in my driveway. Later, when more officers arrive to question Pam, she says confidently that the kids were here to clean her house. She also stops mid sentence, mouth agape, just staring at the road, and she says, oh, I was gonna say, if that was one of my neighbors, that would be embarrassing. She complains, I know you were just here trying to do your jobs, but these girls come to clean my house and pretty soon I'm in the back of a police car and I'm like, oh my gosh. I mean, I know it's not your fault. You're just trying to do your job, but I don't even watch scary police shows or anything. I'm such a scared a cat. Okay, pick me. Pam, a netizen comments in all these interviews, not one person who is detained or questioned asked if the children were okay, not one. Another comments, why is the couple not shocked that their friends are being accused of child abuse? They need to be investigated as well. Picking up your good friend's kids to have them clean your house. Zero concern when hearing about the child abuse allegations. They're all in some sort of child abuse culture, it seems. Jody's niece Jesse says that they remember Pam back in the day when they were held captive in Jody's home. They state, when I was living with Jody, Pam Botcher was around. She was Jody's best friend, and I didn't realize that she was connected in this. I mean, I have very strong feelings towards Pam because of not what she was directly applying. She wasn't actually involved, but she was one of the people that was constantly surveilling the surveillance of reporting back to Jody. Sherry states in her book about Jody, Ruby and Pam, and not in like an accusatory way, but she just states they were the three musketeers of the apocalypse, ready to follow each other literally to the ends of the earth. Again, any and all allegations against Pam Botcher are completely just netizen speculations. She has not been charged of any crime, nor has she been considered a public suspect of any case. But it's just something that has made people think, which brings us to Kevin. Now I do want to mention one thing about Kevin. I think Kevin is very complicated. I know a lot of people online seem to have very strong opinions about Kevin, especially with this new documentary coming out. I don't think it's doing him any favors and I'm hoping to summarize both sides, but it seems like Kevin is trying to be a part of his children's lives, but more importantly, his children are working on rebuilding their relationship with Kevin. And I think for that alone, I don't think think it's my place to have an opinion In Defense of Kevin One Reddit post reads Please help Connection Solitude Program has anyone heard of the solitude thing? I have a friend who is in the Connections group for over a year and I've seen the extreme negative effects that it's had on his self esteem and overall happiness levels and it seems to be destroying his marriage. But recently things went up 10 notches when he sent out texts telling his family and friends that he will no longer be communicating with them at all and he wouldn't be communicating with his own wife. Ethan it has been about two months since anyone has heard from him. He didn't even call or text his mom for Mother's Day. He says he's doing his time of solitude until his connection with God has improved. We are all extremely worried about Him. Any advice would help greatly, especially if anyone has information on this solitude program. Thanks in advance. 1 person Comments I'm so sorry. I also drank the Kool aid for about 10 minutes. I think the individuals who are doing this, they're trying to set boundaries. So I get the feeling the more you pry and try to have calm contact, the more they see this as control. So they're saying this is a thing that Jody does consistently. She forces men out of their families and refuses to let them have contact with any of their family members. So people think she was trying to do this with Adam? Adam Paul Steed from Part two Maybe she did this with Kevin Frankie as well. Kevin was asked by authorities why he and Ruby had separated and he said the reasons are because of the way that I treated my wife and some of my own addictions that I was working through and seeking help on with, like pornography. So a lot of people in support and in defense of Kevin think that the same thing that happened to Adam is now happening to Kevin. The same process. Sherry does write in her book that Kevin even noticing a attractive woman at the gym was evidence of his astronomical level of distortion. And even speaking to a female co worker would be an unspeakable crime. Kevin later states, I think it's relatively easy for somebody out here, here who's armchairing this and looking at this experience going, well, why didn't he just do that? I would have done that if it was day one and Jody came to me and said, yeah, you're selfish. You need to go into separation and repent. I would have told her to take a hike. But he's saying the indoctrination was slow. He's asked, why didn't you stand up to say no to this nonsense? He says, I know and I. I know, and if I dwell on that question, it eats me alive. So some netizens think that he's just a weak man, but likely not vicious. They think that he sounds remorseful and he's prob in a lot of pain that, I mean, we as netizens cannot really relate to. He says, I'm incredibly grateful for the heroics of my son in saving his life, his sister's life, and probably his other sisters in our family as well. He was truly a hero. It's a lot to deal with every day. The questions of what if, what could have been, what should have happened, what I should have done, what others should have done. It haunts you. And it's my struggle and others to learn how to deal with that and to do what we can to make the best of our lives moving forward. Sherry would state, which I'm not saying I think she's forgiven him, or defending him because he can be a weak man and still be a horrendous parent and could face legal repercussions. I'm just saying, she writes, kevin had as much autonomy as a wet noodle in a hurricane. But many more netizens think the main difference between Kevin and Adam is that Adam actually fought for his kids. Kevin did not. Which brings us to the big group of netizens who are not fans of Kevin, which it does get worse. By the documentary's release, a lot of citizens are hung up on the fact that he talks about Ruby as if she is God's gift to earth and he will always put her before his six children. He says, a lot of people will look at me and say, how could he ever do that? I would never do that. But for those who respectfully ask me about that and say, how could you? My response is that, well, who do you love more than anybody? And sometimes it's a child, sometimes it's a spouse, they say. And I say, well, what? What would Happen if that individual that you love more than anybody started to go a different way and was inviting you, you and encouraging you, would you just easily be able to let them go out of your life and say goodbye? Kevin has asked, do you still love her? He says, definitely, I've always loved her. Even though she abused the kids, you still love her? Oh, yeah. The actions that she did are atrocious, but I still feel a longing. I miss her. All the delivery rooms, all the moments holding our children. It's easy for the world to hate that woman. And so many people want me to join in on that chorus, but I cannot turn off all those other memories. How do you make sense of all of this? This really is a story of love, of hope, of family, but this is also a story of deception, of control, and ultimately, it's a story of faith. If you put your faith in the wrong hands, you could lose everything. Many netizens just can't get over the fact that, sure, call it faith, call it love, call it the devil, call it whatever your heart pleases. But. But how can you find out from the officers that your children are emaciated, have been taken to the hospital, and instead of asking how they are demanding to see them, asking what you can do to support them, how do you just sit there and tell the police that you trust your wife? Some netizens, for lack of better words, they just find Kevin a little bit hypocritical. In a recent interview, Kevin says, another thing that I hope that people think about after watching this is the role that social media and the Internet plays in our lives today and how it really fanned the flames of the story and spread it like wildfire. The truths, the falsities of it, the dangers that can come when you place yourself or your family or your children into the public spotlight on social media, which is completely valid. But a lot of netizens are confused. Like, weren't you the man that wanted to sell your soul to the YouTube overlords for $85? He says, There's a lot of incentives out there today to do that, but I hope that people realize and really stop and recognize, is this really what's best for my kids? Not just financially, but emotionally and psychologically. Now, Kevin has said that he regrets putting his children online and the whole family vlogging era of his life, but people think, I mean, yeah, you could, you could try to be an advocate against family vlogging, but I think the way that he talks about it, people are saying, you don't show Enough remorse, yet you just kind of go into, like, advocacy mode. It feels weird. Many netizens also think it's strange that Kevin is just acting like vlogging was just Ruby's thing when she was the one primarily vlogging. Yes, but it seemed like he reaped the financial benefits of putting their children out there. And the worst part is, in a recent interview with People magazine, he said, the things you see that are concerning in the documentary, such as the sternness, the yelling at the kids to get them to comply in the filming and those kinds of things. I think a lot of people that aren't familiar with family content creation would look at that and go, that's horrible. That's abusive. And it is abusive. But what I want people to understand is that that was not unique to our family. Family. I don't know a single family content creator that did not have interactions like that with their children. With one outraged netizen writing, sir, it is abusive, but we weren't the only ones doing it. Is that your. Also raising your voice is not the same as grabbing your child's face out of anger as he saw her do while recording it. Others comment, I didn't know it was that bad, sir, you were recording. Make it make sense, please. Another comment reads, a gentle reminder that Kevin Frankie ordered a season desist to anyone who raised concerns about the children's safety and tried to have his oldest daughter arrested. Kevin's attorney would argue for Kevin that Jody was the one that made sure he never saw the kids because, quote, she knew how much he valued their marriage and valued their family, and it was his desire to be able to get back with the family and preserve the marriage. The attorney continues, he's a very gentle guy and no one's ever made any allegations that he's ever physically abuse those kids or anyone else. He just wants to do what's best for his kids and get them back, get them under his tutelage and his fathership to protect them. Many netizens feel, I don't buy these excuses. You left for a year and completely cut your kids off. Your therapist tricked you into child neglect and abandonment. Yeah, okay. No one's buying it. A lot of netizens are conflicted writing. I always had the impression that Kevin was pretty weak and just let Ruby take the lead. It's obvious now. It's still hard to imagine how he stood, saw everything that was coming out of Jody and he still allowed her access to the kids with him totally out of the picture. He was both victim and perpetrator to some degree. I think it is the belief of many that Kevin's true saving grace are his kids, that they are somewhat in his lives. Otherwise I think the Internet would rip him apart. I think the fact that Chad is trying to have a relationship with him. Sherry I think while more wary perhaps she seems to be open to the idea of one day having a relationship with him. Though she still calls himself Kevin. It seems like that is his only saving grace. The fact that Chad even said for my dad, I understand that in order to get his family back and not run into problems with my mom and our therapist, he had to obey her rules and follow each step. But one comment just reads after reading Sheri Franke's book, you can see the extraordinary work that she has done to be in a better place and Kevin is nowhere near his daughter's presence of mind, which she did with zero assistance from her father. Kevin needs to work on his own accountability, lessen the blame and excuses and find a backbone that he never had as a protect her. Others think that Ruby's siblings and parents are also at fault to some degree. Some netizens have expressed frustration, stating that the siblings have known must have known something and could have done something to protect the kids. Bonnie, Ruby's sister, has publicly come out to condemn Kevin, saying the one person that could have done something and had the legal right was Kevin. It was Kevin's job to check in on things and he did not. She also posts a video titled I am not my Sister, I am Not My Sister's Crimes, which a lot of netizens didn't really like the title of that video. I mean I get it. A lot of people were coming on to the siblings saying how did you not protect your nieces and nephews? But at the same time, I think as an aunt myself, it's unhinged. Ruby siblings explained that for the past few years Ruby and Kevin have pushed them out of their lives because of they all hated connections. Bonnie says, my thoughts towards Ruby, Kevin and Jody and connections is that all of it was bull crap. It was complete indoctrination of this thing that they created. I don't agree with how extreme were on everything. I knew they were weird. I knew that they were off. Those are the things that we kept quiet about because what was I going to say? What was I going to do? What was I I was not going to come out and publicly say I don't like my sister, I don't like what she's doing and I think she's weird. That is what we kept quiet about. Julie, another one of Ruby's sisters says, we saw it. We all saw it. We all felt weird about this Jody lady. We weren't comfortable with it. We didn't like the teachings. Ruby was bringing it to the family functions. And we were this close to telling her, if you come to our family events anymore, we do not want to hear what you're learning through connections because we don't like it. We never did say that to her, but we thought about it. So three years ago, Ruby and I hung out bottling tomatoes and then a few weeks later, crap hit the fan. She left the family and didn't even call me and say anything. Literally nothing. She did call my mom, yelled at my mom on the phone for 45 minutes and accused her of things that were not true. Basically, I'm here to say that I have no idea what was happening. Like Bonnie mentioned in her video, we are not going to let Ruby destroy another thing in in our lives. We have platforms where we try to bring brightness and positivity into each other's lives. That's why we didn't talk about Ruby in our content for the past three years, Sheri writes in her book. It took around two to three years before Ruby would cut ties entirely with her family. And as I watched Ruby delete contact after contact from her phone, I couldn't help but wonder, was this healing? I will say I don't think it's right for people to blame Ruby, Ruby's siblings and parents for things that they would not have known because we don't know what they knew. We don't know how much Ruby was telling them, how much their nieces and nephews were disclosing with him. Probably not much. But I do think a lot of netizens didn't like their reactions. It came off very angry and it came off a little bizarre. It just felt like there was they wanted more sympathy for the process that they as a family unit were going through rather than than just feeling protective over their nieces and nephews. Making things even more complicated is that most of Ruby's siblings are family vloggers. Some of them are more aggressively family vloggers and some of them are more vloggers that show their families, which Sheri has been an incredible advocate for, passing laws for family vlogging and child influencers. She recently got a bill passed in Utah legislature and they are waiting for the governor to just sign it to become law. It's a bill aimed at protecting children of family vloggers. It would require parents to set aside a portion of their earnings into a trust fund for their children. Kind of like if you had a child that was in Hollywood, you have to set aside money for them for when they turn 18 if they're working as a child. And there's another part of that bill that is when that child turns 18, they have the right to request the removal of any and all content that they are featured in. Utah is one of the biggest states for family vloggings, so this is monumental. And again, please read Sheri's book. I think even if it's like, yeah, family vlogging is bad, by reading her book, it does provide such a visceral perspective that honestly, I think it changed my brain chemistry on pretty much everything that has to do with family vlogging. Sherry stated before I would tell myself, it doesn't matter what they say, I know how I feel about myself. I think I believe that for a while. But I would always find myself just checking comments on Instagram, on YouTube, just to see what people had to say about whether it was good or bad. It's like, okay, I just want to be aware of what people are saying, I guess. And personally speaking, I could probably work myself into a full blown panic attack just by going and seeking out negative comments on the Internet. And I'm an adult with a whole support system. Sheri, I mean this was when she was a child. I read through old snark forums, not on Reddit, like a different website that should never be named and should not even exist list. These are comments from 2016 before Ruby Frankie was canceled. The comments that people are leaving about Ruby Frankie's children about literal seven year olds were some of the most disgusting things I've ever read. You would think that these children committed grave crimes against humanity. It was really deplorable. I mean I genuinely had a crisis in the middle of the night one night where I'm like, who are these people? Are these adults doing this? Because that's crazy. Who seeks out these forums and goes on to have lengthy discussions about how much they hate, first of all a seven year old child and second of all a seven year old child that they had never even met before. Sheri details one comment stuck with her, which was Sherry is such a kiss ass. She's always riding out her siblings and trying to be Ruby's favorite. So smug. Sherry remembers thinking and she writes in her book, book, I'm not sucking up, I'm surviving. There's a difference she says family vlogging ruined my innocence long before Ruby committed a crime. I promise you that my experiences are not unique and are happening to child influencers all over Utah in the country. So this makes everything kind of trickier considering Ruby's siblings, many of them are still making family vlogging content with Sher's cousins. And some of them have pivoted so they show way less of their kids now after everything that's happened, but some of them have not. One of Ruby's sisters would even state that her vlogging is very different from eight passengers because her kids have a choice, they have a voice, and they have a retirement fund growing for them when they turn into adults, which of course, netizens have very mixed feelings about. As for Jesse, Jody's niece, they say one of the worst parts of Jody's abuse is that she makes you believe that you deserve it. They say, I was in it. I believed it real, real strong. Even when all this stuff was going on with Jody. What made it so much worse is that I on internalizing it, I fully believed it. I fully believed that this was God's will. And if I had just put myself over to the Lord, if I had just prayed more, if I was more faithful, that all of this would end up being for good, that I truly needed everything that Jody was doing. I deserved it and I needed it. In this case, it was really extreme where the abuse was so extreme. But then if you bear it, then you would get these moments of immense reward from her. And it's just such a psychological. They continue. The prerequisites of this is already instilled in the Mormon Church of having to earn love. This has affected my life forever. For the rest of my life. It's this whole thought of, if I try a little harder, if I do a little bit more, maybe they'll love me, maybe they'll accept me. It took me over a decade to get to a point where I didn't think that I was actually evil. Even their parents did not want to face the truth. They basically told them along the lines of whenever Jesse would display anger and pain at what they went through with Jody, they would just tell them along the lines of get over yourself. It must be so hard for. For you to carry around such toxic emotions all the time. They say it doesn't stop. This nearly killed me. This has affected every aspect of my life, every single part. My ability to have friends, my ability to have partners, my ability to hold down jobs. I mean, I have complex PTSD from this. Remember how in part one, we went over how Ruby decided that the two youngest kids were not going to have Christmas presents because they were getting the gift of love and boundaries? Same thing happened to Jesse under Jody. Jesse says it sounds like such a trivial thing, but no one gave me attention on my birthday. Jody informed me, it's your birthday, but you don't deserve any attention for it. You didn't earn it. You didn't earn the right to be special. So no holidays were celebrated for me. I didn't receive any presents. Adam Paul Steed from part two. His marriage and life was ruined because he went to Jody for therapy. On the recommendation of his church bishop. He went to Jody's sentencing and he said, when I saw Ruby Frankie, I saw my ex wife sitting there saying the same exact thing. My ex wife would have said the exact same thing Ruby Frankie said today.
