We Asked Rosie & Bubba from "The Crash" EVERYTHING The Internet Wants To Know

Summary

Rotten Mango Podcast Summary
Episode: We Asked Rosie & Bubba from "The Crash" EVERYTHING The Internet Wants To Know
Host: Stephanie Soo
Date: June 21, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode is part five in a deep-dive series on the infamous crash involving Mackenzie Shirilla, which resulted in the deaths of her boyfriend, Dominic Russo, and their friend Davion Flanagan. Here, host Stephanie Soo relays an extensive interview conducted with Rosie and Bubba, controversial figures in the Netflix documentary The Crash, who were the last to see Dom and Davion alive. The episode seeks to address internet speculation, fill in narrative gaps from the documentary, clarify public misconceptions, and offer Rosie and Bubba’s side of what happened—both that night and in the aftermath.

Stephanie herself did not participate in the interview for objectivity, but carefully walks listeners through the full account, evidence, and her own attempts to verify facts.

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Key Discussion Points & Major Insights

1. Misrepresentation in the Documentary

• Rosie and Bubba’s Experience:
  • Rosie was under the impression the documentary would focus on the experience of losing friends so young, but claims it was “extremely edited and twisted.”
    • “I just feel like it really was twisted in a way that we never anticipated.” – Rosie [01:45]
  • Rosie had an 8-hour interview, Bubba 1.5 hours; only 15 minutes made it into the final cut.
  • They never previewed the documentary, and were “taken aback” by the final result.
  • Both praised the producers’ reputations (the ‘Don’t F**k With Cats’ team) and felt misrepresented by editing for simplicity.

2. Why Rosie & Bubba Didn’t Immediately Speak to Police

• Internet’s Main Question: Why refuse to speak with investigators but be so forthcoming with Netflix?

• Protestations of a “cover up” stem from police and prosecutor statements in the documentary and public FOIA files.

• Rosie’s Clarification:

  • She did speak with the prosecutor (not the detective), via two phone calls after Mackenzie’s arrest and a grand jury subpoena.

    • “I did speak with the prosecutor ... One was half an hour, and the other one was an hour long.” – Rosie [06:08]
    • Stephanie could verify a subpoena was issued to Rosie and surmises these calls likely happened, but the detailed contents are sealed.
    • The delay in cooperation was because Rosie perceived the investigation to be about drugs, not the crash.

  • Timeline Verified: No conversation with detective until after subpoena; possible confusion (and editing) conflated reluctance with full non-cooperation.

  • “We thought this was a drug investigation.” – Rosie [16:22]

• Why Did They Think It Was a Drug Investigation?

  • Paul (another attendee) came out of his police interview “freaked out” about questions regarding drugs and guns, which made others hesitant.
  • Paul’s interview included a DEA agent and focused heavily on potential drug activity (“shrooms” found, etc.), which heightened peer anxiety.
    • “They were asking if Dom was jealous... if guns were present... and about shrooms.” – Stephanie [13:37]
  • Rosie’s father (ex-police chief) and their attorney then recommended not to speak.

3. Friendship Dynamics and Internet Speculation

• Rosie and Bubba clarify they were not long-term best friends with Mackenzie; relationship was comparatively surface-level and recent.
  • “We were just randomly hanging out every day ... just a few months prior to the accident.” – Rosie [29:20]
• Analysis of 600+ pages of text messages between Rosie and Mackenzie:
  • Relationship centered largely on TikTok, social media, and supportive (“You’re so hot!”) banter, not deep, personal connection.
  • No evidence of Rosie witnessing or being privy to the toxic aspects of Mackenzie’s relationship with Dom.
  • “Just because she was nice to you for five, six months doesn’t mean you can really … talk about her character.” – Stephanie [40:05]
• Rosie repeatedly insists she would not cover up a crime for Mackenzie.

4. Addressing Specific Rumors & Conspiracies

• Key Conspiracy: Rumor circulated that Rosie “drove by the crash site” before police arrived and said nothing.
  • Rosie explains her route home that morning took her past the entrance to Progress (the crash street), but not down it, and she never saw the crash.
    • “…the only way for her to drive home is using the main road, Pearl, NOT Progress … she passes the entrance, not the crash site itself.” – Stephanie [55:43]
  • She attributes the rumor to miscommunication in the aftermath at the vigil site.
• Rosie & Bubba’s Account of the Final Night:
  • Argue there was no fighting between Dom and Mackenzie at Paul’s.
  • Mackenzie and Dom briefly left the group to get snacks, returned in a good mood.
  • Bubba emphasizes he wasn’t even friends with Mackenzie (“it would not affect me if she had gotten the harshest sentence”) and just wants to know the truth.

5. Post-Crash Conduct & Public Backlash

• Discussed further backlash, including the infamous Halloween photo (allegedly dressing as Playboi Carti, not a corpse) and misinterpretation by families.
  • Rosie admits, “We really shouldn’t have done that. I was irresponsible … so many things I would have done differently.” [65:44]
• Rosie and Bubba state their main regrets are not immediately cooperating with police and contributing to confusion for victim families.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On the Netflix Documentary:
  “They sat me down for eight hours and when I saw the final cut, it was like ... fifteen minutes.” – Rosie [01:40]

• On interacting with the prosecutor:
  “I did speak with the prosecutor … I have the phone records … one was an hour long.” – Rosie [06:08]

• On hesitancy to talk to police:
  “We thought this was a drug investigation.” – Rosie [16:22]

• On their friendship with Mackenzie:
  “I just started hanging out with her a few months prior. We were not best friends.” – Rosie [29:25]

• Bubba on Mackenzie:
  “Mackenzie was not my friend. … I wouldn’t care what happened to her.” – Bubba [58:42]

• On covering up for Mackenzie:
  “I would never, ever cover up a murder. That is insane.” – Rosie [45:37]

• On regret and hindsight:
  “We really shouldn’t have done that [Halloween picture] ... I was irresponsible … so many things I would have done differently in hindsight.” – Rosie [65:44]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Time | Topic | |-------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:40–06:04 | Why Stephanie was not on the call. Netflix doc editing, set-up. | | 06:04–10:40 | Rosie’s claims of having spoken to the prosecutor; FOIA verification and police reports. | | 13:34 | How Paul’s police interview “freaked out” the group, drugs/guns line of questioning. | | 16:19–20:30 | Perception of drug investigation, advice from Rosie’s dad and attorney, canceling interviews. | | 29:20–34:56 | Nature of Rosie & Mackenzie’s friendship; 600 pages of texts reviewed. | | 41:09–44:56 | Character assessment of Mackenzie and the issue of speaking as a “character witness.” | | 51:00–54:51 | That night’s timeline (food run, Dom & Mackenzie’s demeanor, aftermath). | | 54:52–57:57 | Rosie’s post-party route home, refuting crash site rumor, emotional context of that day. | | 57:57–58:42 | Bubba’s reaction to Davion’s death, thoughts on Mackenzie’s fate. | | 65:44 | Halloween costume controversy, family backlash, Rosie’s regret and explanation. |

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Episode Summary & Flow

This episode delivers a transparent, detailed glimpse into the aftermath of the crash, Rosie and Bubba’s rationale for their actions, and their emotional state throughout the investigation. Stephanie Soo painstakingly cross-references official documents, police records, and text threads to separate verifiable facts from speculation and clarify the confusion fostered by the Netflix documentary’s editing.

Rosie and Bubba, while contrite over some of their public actions and delays in cooperating with police, maintain that none of their behavior was intended as a cover-up for Mackenzie. The episode provides a wealth of firsthand accounts, supporting evidence, and direct quotes for listeners to draw their own conclusions—emphasizing that everyone involved was young, scared, and navigating trauma in the public eye.

Stephanie closes by highlighting the remaining open questions—especially the behavior and influence of Mackenzie's parents—setting up the next series installment.

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This summary is designed to provide listeners with a thorough, clear, and fact-checked account of this pivotal Rotten Mango episode, addressing both its emotional and evidentiary core.

Transcript

[A]

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Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Bada bing, bada boom. If you have not already listened to the previous four parts of this series, I recommend doing that first we went through the crash itself that was caused by 17 year old Mackenzie Shirello where she killed her boyfriend Dominic Russo and their friend Davion Flanagan in the backseat. We went through all of her actions after the crash that a lot of people were side eyeing. We went through the Netflix documentary. Mackenzie was interviewed for the Netflix documentary. We went through all of the things she said. Her best friends, her close friends, friends were also speaking out. Some of them were interviewed for the Netflix documentary and a lot of them were hated. And two of the more controversial figures to come out of this Netflix stock, the crash, are Rosie and Bubba. They were there the night at Paul's gathering that Mackenzie, Dom and Davion were at all before they left and when they leave Paul's place that's when the crash happens. So these are the last people to see Dom and Davion alive. Rosie and Bubba are, you know they, they did not have a they were not widely liked after the Netflix documentary for a lot of good reasons on the Internet. And we were able to get them on a two hour phone call with our researchers and ask them all of the questions and most importantly ask them what really happened that night. Now I will say that I was not on that phone call. There was a schedule overlap, but also we thought it would be best for me to remain as objective as possible and I thought the easiest way would be to not be on that phone call. I gave my researchers a list of questions that I had. My researchers also had their own list of questions and we were just rapid fire making sure that everything got answered. And I will say that Rosie and Bubba do not seem to be at least evasive to any of the questions. I did of course try my best to verify their statements, but there are some that are for obvious reasons impossible to verify and for those I'm just going to point out there's no way to verify that. And at times where I do attempt to verify with the FOIA file, I'm just going to walk you through my steps and thought process of how I try to verify information just so we can be as transparent as possible. Rosie and Bubba first stated that they felt the Netflix documentary was extremely edited and twisted in a way that does not represent how they truly feel. Rosie told us that she was under the impression that the Netflix doc was talking to her and Bubba about the viewpoint of losing friends in such a tragic way at such a young age. She says, I just feel like it really was twisted in a way that we never anticipated. Rosie states that it wasn't what she was expecting to represent her feelings about the whole situation. So they were describing that Rosie had an eight hour long interview with producers. Bubba had a 15 interview and it's just like rapid fire questions all day and they said that they answered each and every single one of them. And when they saw the final documentary they even thought the original documentary was going to be a three part docu series, but it got cut down to just one and a half hours. Rosie states she felt like they just took out a lot of things for simplicity's sake. They never got an early viewing of the documentary either. And when it did release, Rosie and Bubba stayed up till like three in the morning to watch it and they state that they were taken aback by how much was cut out for like 8 hours. Hours. They say like it's only like 15 minutes, make it in. And they thought that it was not a good representation of their interviews is what they state to us. Rosie shares her grievances with the way the documentary cut her parts, stating that she felt a lot of trust with the production team. She says they did Don't Fuck with Cats, which is honestly great. We think it's a great film. Everybody loves that. We just watched it a while ago, so they had a lot of reputable films. I thought they would take our story responsibly and they were always super nice every time we communicated with them and we really poured our hearts out and they came into our house, like, multiple times. They felt it was just not accurate of how they feel. So how do they feel? The biggest question that we had for Rosie, other than what happened that night, was, why would you not talk to the police, but you want to talk to Netflix? That also seemed to be the biggest point of contention on the Internet when it comes to Rosie. I did see through the police file, throughout the police report, there are multiple mentions in the detectives incident report that he has reached out to Rosie and she has declined to speak with him. He's like, reaching out multiple days. This is a major, completely understandable point that's being made online. I too am of the belief of, like, how can you really grieve the loss of two friends? But you did everything you could to avoid helping the investigators figure out the truth of what happened that night. It doesn't make sense. It does give cover up vibes, understandably. So we asked, why did she not talk to the investigators in the documentary? In the Netflix documentary, the prosecutors also interviewed, and he states, quote, unquote, you have no idea how hard I try to get Rosie Graham to talk to me, to cooperate with me. But it's good to hear that she talked to you guys. I'm fascinated to hear what she has to say. So we asked Rosie and she states she did talk to the prosecutor.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah. She says, quote, I did speak with the prosecutor and I don't really know what got lost in communication with them. She later mentions that she had two phone calls with the prosecutors. One was an hour long, the other one was 30 minutes long, and that she has the phone record to prove these calls happen. Now, here's what I did to verify this statement. Like I said, there are multiple mentions in the detective report of trying to get Rosie to come in for an interview. There is no mention that she ever did. However, Rosie does state that she talked to the prosecutor, not the detective. So in the detective's report, he's like, rosie won't talk to me, Rosie won't talk to me. Rosie tells us she talked to the prosecutor, two different people. She says this. So there's all this talk online that nobody cooperated. And I think it's the way that documentary was edited where I was explaining the initial police hesitation and they cut it with the prosecutor, which he's not even the police. You know, the prosecutor didn't call us originally. And I explained it on the documentary in depth. And once Mackenzie was arrested, the prosecutor called me. It went to voicemail I called him back, and I have phone records of two phone calls with him. One was half an hour, and the other one was an hour long.

[B]

The guy who's saying that in the Netflix doc. Yeah, that's the prosecutor.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So the prosecutor, she's saying they did speak.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Then why did he, in the. In the documentary, saying, she thinks it's

[A]

the way the producers edited it.

[B]

Oh. So she's saying the prosecutor could say, oh, you have no idea how much I've tried. I'm fascinated.

[A]

Yeah. Wait, I have my theories about that, too. Oh, okay, okay. And so she says, and I remember he asked me, he said, I'm gonna ask you every question. I would ask you on the stand. And I answered every question. Then he went on the documentary, and it's cut with me saying I didn't initially want to talk to the police because I thought it was a drug investigation. And. And then the prosecutor saying, oh, I'm so fascinated with what she's going to say, insinuating that I never spoke with him, but I did, and I was under the impression that I would be testifying during the trial, and I was willing to. And he said, okay, I'm going to call you whenever to come in to testify. And I was like, great. And I never heard back. Now, I did find in the FOIA that there is a grand jury subpoena for Rosie that was, in fact, issued after Mackenzie's arrest. And there are no notes from any sort of conversation that Rosie had with the prosecutor. I think it could be possible that this conversation with the prosecutor was due to the grand jury subpoena. So she's not. She's refusing to talk to the police. She gets a grand jury subpoena, the prosecutor calls her, and she does have these two phone calls with the prosecutor. From what I can. I guess I tend to believe that right now, so far, all signs point to the fact that she probably did talk to the prosecutor because there is a subpoena, which means if she did not cooperate, they could have, like in the David case with Neo, arrested her. Now, does it mean that every time someone doesn't cooperate with the prosecutor after a grand jury subpoena, they're automatically arrested? No. So, like, there's no way to factually say this is correct. It's not. It doesn't happen all the time. It's just like, you could get arrested if you don't cooperate. But she states that it was after Mackenzie's arrest, and the grand jury subpoena was issued after Mackenzie's arrest.

[B]

I see. Okay. Okay. So the timeline adds up.

[A]

Yes. So it seems like from end of July to November, she doesn't talk to any detective. And then after the grand jury's subpoena, it's seems like that is when she talks to the prosecutor on these two phone calls. So if that's the case, that means Rosie did in fact talk to prosecutors, but it was after being subpoenaed and it was after MacKenzie's arrest. It's kind of what I feel like I can piece together through the FOIA right now. The prosecutor states to Netflix, you have no idea how hard I tried to get Rosie Graham to talk to me. Which, I mean, it insinuates that Rosie Graham didn't talk, but also it doesn't, because he's just saying, like. Like, I had to work on this a lot. Right. I tried really hard. You have no idea how hard I tried. And then. And then it cuts with him saying, to cooperate with me. So I. You have no idea how hard I tried to get Rosie Graham to talk to me, to cooperate with me. But it's good to hear that she talked to you guys. I'm fascinated to hear what she has to say. He says, to talk to me, to cooperate with me. It could be possible that Rosie did talk to the prosecutor, but maybe he said that because she might not have cooperated in the way that he was anticipating.

[B]

Okay, okay.

[A]

Like, the fact that he's saying, I'm fascinated to hear what she has to say. Like, it. Maybe there's an insinuation of we did grand jury subpoena her, but maybe they got nothing out of that phone call. Maybe those two phone calls, there was nothing that they felt was.

[B]

So why didn't she talk to the police and them in the initial three, four months?

[A]

Yeah. Oh, there's a whole thing. We asked them about that, too. So I do want to note that if there was, I mean, these phone calls, it's really hard to verify if they did occur in the sense of, or, like, even the substance of the phone calls. Because if it were to have happened after a grand jury subpoena, a lot of things that are pertaining to grand juries are sealed typically. So it's just like a. Yeah. But the wording there is very interesting how hard he tried to get Rosie Graham to talk to him, to cooperate with him. I'm fascinated to hear what she has to say. Another interesting point is Rosie mentioned to our researchers, quote, and he said, okay, I'm going to call you whenever to come testify. And I was like, great. And I never heard back. Which could indicate that the prosecutors felt like she was unhelpful to the prosecution's case. And these are all me just like tinfoil hatting this and coming up with my own opinions. I still want to note, even if this were true, in a hypothetical parallel universe, even if Rosie wasn't helpful to the prosecution's case, that doesn't mean anything. That doesn't mean that she wasn't cooperating to the best of her abilities. It just means it wasn't useful. Yeah, I just tried to verify whatever statement I could with whatever relevant information I could find that is verified through the foia. But I want to state conclusively I can't really prove anything to anyone. Like, I'm just trying to verify people's statements. And this is how my thought process worked. This is how we ended up. As for why Rosie and Bubba were so hesitant to talk to the authorities because Rosie never talked to the detective, Bubba took just like a long time, like, almost. I think he talked to them near October, if I'm not mistaken. So it's just like weeks of the detectives hounding him to sit down for the investigators, they said that they had a very strong reason for why, and they state that it's not to help Mackenzie. They state that there were seven people there at the night at the gathering of Paul's house. Paul, Nina, Rosie, Bubba, Mackenzie, Dom and Davion. Dom and Davion obviously can't tell the police what happened that night. MacKenzie's the one being investigated. Paul, Nina, Rosie and Bubba. Paul actually spoke with the detectives. Bubba says they all had interviews lined up right after Paul. So Paul was the first one to go in for an interview. And then it was gonna be like Nina, Rosie, Bubba, like, they all had it lined up and scheduled. And I could actually see on the detectives report like, Rosie had an interview scheduled. But after Paul gets out of his interview, he communicates with the group. And according to Rosie and Bubba, obviously, we didn't talk to Paul, but he communicates with them that the interview is not good. They were like, he was basically telling them, this is what they say, yeah, it's not good in there. And objectively, I didn't find anything necessarily alarming. Granted, I think being asked questions by the police for such a serious investigation and asking about shrooms and purchasing shrooms and tripping, I can understand. Maybe it heightens someone's emotions and makes people overthink. I do believe that Paul's mom was in the interview room. As well, which could height the feelings of stress and anxiety when talking about having friends over and smoking weed when your mom is right there and there's investigators in front of you. And it is a very serious matter because two people are dead. So I can completely understand the heightened emotions. However, there's nothing particularly stand out about Paul's interview where objectively from a third party I can say, oh, my God, like, abort mission. Like, this is bad. Right. But I can see.

[B]

So you, you saw his interview too?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Now, Rosie relayed to us that Paul was kind of getting freaked out by the line of questioning. I could verify this. There were questions about guns.

[B]

Guns, like, do they own guns?

[A]

Yes. So they were specifically asking if they ever saw Dom with a gun, if a gun came out that night at the gathering, asking if they'll just look in their backyard and see if they notice anything, which is like kind of like a crazy ask. That was a little. That was. Yeah, they were like, well, if you see anything in your backyard, like, if you see guns, drug paraphernalia, like, they were just like, if you see anything. They were asking if Dom was jealous of Kenzie's friendship with Paul. Which Paul is like, well, no, because he knows I'm gay. I mean, I don't think that part is necessarily frightening, but I do think, or at least the way it played out about saying, oh, well, no, Dom's not jealous because he's. He knows I'm gay. But I do think the part about the guns that probably did freak Paul out, it was like pretty extensive questioning about the guns. And I could see how he communicated that probably to Rosie and Bubba. So I think the. The whole gun thing happened because I think Dom owned guns or something of that sort. But there was just a lot of focus on the guns for a brief moment in time in that Paul interview. So I think it did freak Paul out. So I think there was just a lot of things happening, like, they're asking about guns, they're questioning him about drugs that night, and two people are dead. And there's just. I think he could be very frightened after this inter interview. Now, one thing that I did take note of, but I didn't particularly know how to feel about it, was that I did take note that in the interview with Paul, and this is before our researchers spoke with Rosie and Bubba, there was a DEA agent from the Drug Enforcement Administration. Now, the DA officer mainly gave a whole little, like, mini lecture at the end of the interview that he's just like, oh, well, don't you know, weed is not a gateway drug. Drugs are bad. You're going to college, you look like a good kid. Don't be doing drugs. Like, don't be hanging out with the wrong people just because there's talks of them trying to buy shro and trying to take shrooms. And so there was just like a whole drugs can ruin your future and your lives type of conversation. The DA agent, I don't know why he was there.

[B]

Is he here just to talk?

[A]

That's what I thought. Right. But I guess maybe his presence alone, whether it was not important because sometimes DA agents will also just like, support other investigations. I don't know. Right. But it could also be the fact that there is a drug element to MacKenzie's case. She was found with shrooms on her person, and she was charged for drug possession and possessing criminal tools. And so it does make sense that maybe a DA agent is involved. But I think all of these elements Paul reiterates to Rosie and Bubba. And they said that they were freaked out. They said that they thought this was a drug investigation.

[B]

Rosie and Boba thought this is a drug investigation.

[A]

Yes. So I think the way that they framed it or said to our researchers is what Paul told them about his interview. They started all feeling very freaked out that they're investigating not the accident, but drugs. And like, they. Yeah, so like, they said that they were feeling hesitant. Listen, I don't know. This is what they're saying now. Paul tells them that the cops had even, like, printed out text messages between Rosie and Mackenzie where Rosie that night is like, asking to buy weed and shrooms. So I think that freaks Rosie out because she states, yeah, that freaked her out. Rosie says, so I told my dad. My dad's a cop, ex retired chief or whatever, which they always feel the need to bring up. So she's like saying, people always bring this up as if, like, I'm part of a cover up. She says, but really it has no play in this besides me being like, well, they're asking about guns and drugs and I don't know anything about that. So she's saying that she. Paul tells her what happened. She goes to her dad and is like, I don't know. They're like, asking about guns and drugs and I don't know anything about guns and drugs. She says her dad speaks with their attorney and the attorney tells them not to talk. Obviously, there's limits to what I can verify about any of the things anybody anywhere is saying. But one thing I could verify from this was that in the police document it reads that Rosie's dad leaves a voicemail after Paul's interview, canceling his daughter's interview. He doesn't really state a reason. I think at some point they state like mental health. But it is after Paul's interview. So they did have checks out. Yes, but I don't know if that's why they canceled the interview. Right. This is what they told me or told our researchers is why. But I can't verify. But the timeline does check out. Now, Paul notes something interesting in his interview that when he visited Mackenzie at the hospital after the crash, Natalie Sharilla Mackenzie mom told them not to talk to the cops.

[B]

Not only told Paul.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And everybody.

[A]

Yeah. But he is relaying this to the police. Okay, Right. So I think that's, you know, I don't know. Right. So I guess you could. People can interpret that in multiple different ways. But Paul states that he talked to Rosie about all of this. So he's like telling the police, like, yeah, I've talked to Rosie about all of this. And he states that Rosie is his best friend. And Paul states to the officers that Rosie does want to talk to them. So like in his interview before he gets freaked out, like he's mentioning. Oh, yeah, like, Rosie's my best friend. Yeah. She wants to talk to you guys because he knows that she has an interview lined up.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I see. But after Paul's interview, everything changed.

[A]

Yes. So Rosie and Bubba state that they start hearing from others that this is a drug investigation. That since Mackenzie was technically going to bring them shrooms, whether it be through Dom or someone else, there's like a sale of drugs that is going to happen, obviously evidenced by the text messages between Rosie and Mackenzie. They state it seemed like they were trying to like crack down a whole network of people who were purchasing. So that's why they were hesitant to talk to the police is what they told our researchers. Rosie, in the Netflix documentary, that's what

[B]

she said about the drug investigation.

[A]

Yes. So she. So our researchers were asking like. But that's like really weird because it was just like you sounded really out of left field in the Netflix stock, being like they're not looking into the accident, they're looking into the next drug dealer. It was just like very strong of an opinion.

[B]

Oh, so that's what she meant.

[A]

Rosie says. Yeah, basically, yeah. She says that there was a lot more context to that. She told our researchers, quote, when we were filming, they sat me down and asked me in my eight hour long interview Interview. One of the questions was, so, what was Dom's job? And I kind of looked at them kind of weird because they know what his job was. And I was like, I don't want to say that on camera for everybody, for the whole world. And they literally said to me, oh, the viewers are already going to know in the audience. Like, they're going to know that he was sometimes maybe perhaps allegedly, you know.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Like, I don't even want to say drug dealer. I mean, I guess, legally, I don't know. Right. But it's seems like you're like. It seems. Evidenced by lots of text messages.

[B]

Right, right, right. Yeah. Okay.

[A]

Okay. So she says that is what accounts for why my response got simplified down. It seems like they were trying to find the next big drug dealer. So she's saying she was under the impression the Netflix stock would include lots of this. So her. Oh, it didn't look like they were trying to investigate the accident. It looked like they were trying to find the next big drug dealer. She thought there would be a lot of context.

[B]

Right, right, right.

[A]

But instead, there was kind of none.

[B]

It was out of context.

[A]

I do want to clarify something. I think whatever Dom was doing is completely irrelevant to this entire case. It played no role in the crash. It played no role in the fact that his life was taken at 20 years old. And the only definitive part that really matters in the context of the crash and drugs is that drugs were found on Mackenzie's person when she was pulled out of the vehicle. They found a whole bag of shrooms on her person. Now, Rosie and Bubba are saying that they were under the impression, like I said, that this is a drug investigation. That's what they're telling us. Yes. The police document also notes that the detective did reach out to Bubba's college football coach to try to get Bubba to come in for questions after all of them canceled their interviews. So it does seem like.

[B]

What about Nina?

[A]

Nina's not really. Like, they don't really care about Nina.

[B]

She didn't do the interview?

[A]

No. Yeah.

[B]

Oh. What? That's weird. She was there.

[A]

She was, but I think she, like, barely knew, so I think Nina is Rosie's friend. Rosie and Mackenzie were the connection, and then Davion and Bubba were the connection. Pet parent guilt isn't something that's talked about much, but it is a feeling we all know well. When daily life gets in the way, it can feel impossible to measure up to our pet's unconditional love. But you're doing better than you think you are. And Hill's Pet Nutrition is here to help make this whole pet parenting thing easier. With science led nutrition to support their unique needs and lifelong health. My dog Tiger is on a no fly list. The one time we took him on a plane he was so sick with his stress and anxiety it made us realize that unless his life depended on it, there will be zero reason for him to ever fly again. And even though I know it's for his own health, leaving him while I'm traveling always makes me feel a little bit guilty or a lot of bit guilty. Thankfully, Hills helps me alleviate that guilt because I know I'm giving my pet nutrition that always measures up to their needs. You can feel confident that you're doing right by your pet and taking care of them with guilt free meals that they can't get enough of because you're only human. There's Hills Science does more ready to give more love than humanly possible. Find your pet's new favorite [e-mail] rotten that's hillspet.com rotten so many people are focused on where their money is today. Acorns is the financial wellness app that cares about where your money is going tomorrow. And with the Acorns potential screen, you can find out what your money is capable of. Acorns is easy. You can sign up in minutes and start automatically investing your spare money even if all you've got is spare change. Sign up now and Acorns will boost your new account with a $5 bonus. Investment join the over 14 million all time customers who have already saved and invested over $27 billion with Acorns. Head to acorns.com rotten or download the Acorns app to get started. Paid non client endorsement compensation provides incentive to positively promote Acorns tier 2 compensation provided potential subject to various factors such as customers account age and investment settings does not include Acorns fees. Results do not predict or represent the performance of any Acorns portfolio. Investment results will vary. Investing involves risk risks. Acorn Advisors LLC and SEC Registered Investment Advisor View important [e-mail] Rotten Mint mobile plans are only $15 per month. Wondering what's the catch? There isn't one. There are no gimmicks and no gotchas. Just unlimited talk, text and data, fast, reliable coverage on the nation's largest 5G network and an award winning care team that makes Mint Mobile a catch. When I switched to Mint, I was able to keep my same cell phone number, keep my physical phone. My data was moved for Me in an easy at home transfer. Literally nothing changed. Excep the fact that I was saving money each bill cycle. No need to mass text everyone in my contacts that I was getting a new phone number. No need to memorize 10 new digits. To get your new wireless plan for just 15 bucks a month, go to mint mobile.com rotten that's mintmobile.com rotten cut your wireless bill to 15 bucks a month at mint mobile.com rotten that's it. There's no catch. $45 upfront payment required equivalent to 15amonth new customers on first three month plan only. Speed slower above 40 gigabytes on unlimited plan. Additional taxes, fees and restrictions apply. See Mint Mobile for details else. Now, Bubba says the Netflix documentary, I think that from their original idea, the documentary involved too much, I guess, the drug talk, in a sense. And I could see it respectfully, why the families wouldn't want that out there. But I guess that was their initial direction with this case or with this documentary. And then somewhere down the line, edit changes had to be made or whatnot. And it went a completely different direction. So Bubba is saying, like he agrees with Rosie, that he was under the impression that, that this Netflix documentary was going to talk extensively about drugs, the drug investigation, the alleged drug investigation and all these things.

[B]

Oh, so in the doc it wasn't talked about?

[A]

Barely. Just like they were gonna maybe trip.

[B]

So everything you just said was not discussed.

[A]

Yeah. So they share other stories of why they thought it was a drug investigation. And again, you either believe them or you don't. It's entirely up to you. I actually have no stance on this matter, as I do think it's still kind of irrelevant to the crash itself. But because the Internet has been wanting to know why they didn't talk to the police, I guess this is their reasoning. So they state, Bubba says that the police were coming to his college to essentially ask about drugs. Again furthering his belief. He states that the police were not interested about the night in question, that they were not interested in the car crash, that they were interested in figuring out some sort of nefarious drug network that he, you know, it doesn't really exist. So he says, quote, after practice, it's the seventh game of the season, they called me up to the coach's office, which is at the top of the Don Drum stat. I go up there and they're like, so we've been getting reports, the dean of the college is getting reports that you're involved in a drug trafficking case back at home and that if you become a suspect and not a victim, we couldn't have that image on the team. Bubba says, I was flabbergasted from that. I was like, drug trafficking. I'm like, what the hell is going on? Because even at this point, anytime the police reached out to me, they would come to my dorm. And it was never about drugs. It was always about like, are you being intimidated not to talk to us? Is someone intimidating you not to talk to us about that night? Again, this is one of those things where I could not verify if the

[B]

school is telling him drug trafficking case involving you, they must gotten that from someone from the police, right?

[A]

Yes, but I can't verify that the school did say that to him. The only thing that I could verify is that the detective did reach out to his football coach.

[B]

Let's say if that is true, then what does that mean? Then that means potentially there could be investigating for something more.

[A]

I think think they. It could have been a dual investigation. I think they could have been running a homicide investigation. And then the DEA agent is in the line of questioning for a lot of these interviews because he could also be running his own investigation into maybe like a high school network of transfer of weed and illicit substances. So I could not verify that conversation. But like I said, I do know that there is mention in police reports that the detectives were reaching out to Bubba's football coach. And it seemed like they were repeatedly going to Bubba's college. And that is kind of noted. It did seem like they were trying to apply pressure to get him to talk, which isn't necessarily always a bad thing on the police's part, but that's just what I could verify. And as for the two officers talking about how Bubba told them, who's gonna intimidate me? I'm big dog. Right? That wasn't one of our questions, actually. Like, that was. That was not one of my questions. That was not one of our researchers questions. But it did come up naturally. And Bubba states, I simply told him, like, I wasn't being intimidated. And he's like, I'm like, no, bro. I'm like six foot two. Like, I'm not. I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna be intimid, threatening me, like, to not talk to the police. I think I said something along the lines of like, I'm big dog at home. Like, it was. He says, it wasn't meant in any way. It was more of just like, I'm the second biggest kid in our high school. The first one just went to the Detroit Lions this year in the draft, I was the second biggest in the school after him. So he was explaining to our researchers, like, when he said, I'm big dog, he wasn't trying to be like, I'm top dog. I'm the shit. Like, no one messes with me. He was like. It seemed more like he was trying to say, like.

[B]

Like you say I'm just.

[A]

I'm like a big dude. Like, I don't think. And he's trying to express to them he's not being intimidated. But again, you know, again, this is not information I can verify. He says he eventually chose to talk to the police because he was reassured it was not a drug trafficking case.

[B]

So at what point did he. Oh, you say it was October.

[A]

Yeah, around October.

[B]

I see, I see.

[A]

So the line of questioning would be about the crash. So that's when he goes in and he sits with the interview or the police case. Now, regardless, Rosie and Bubba state that they both spoke with the authorities, Rosie with the prosecutor, Bubba with the detective. And they state that their whole hesitancy came from the fact not because they were trying to help mackenzie, not because they were trying to cover up anything from that night, but because they state they believe that the police were investigating drug trafficking. Yeah. And Rosie states that she even received a phone call from a DEA agent after MacKenzie's arrest stating, I heard you're involved in a drug investigation from 2022. I couldn't verify that, obviously, but. And since we had Rosie and Bubba on, wanted to ask them all the questions that kept circulating on TikTok. I'm just going to tell you pretty much verbatim what they said. I'm going to try to take out as much of the rambling for clarity's sake, which, like our researchers did. They all agreed that there was some rambling on the call. Right. But these were their responses and of course they are going to advocate for themselves. So we did try to fact check as much as we could through the police reports, but like I said, when it's unverifiable, I'm just going to state that outright. About their friendship dynamic. They state that they have been hanging out with Davion for years since Bubba and Davion played high school football together. As for Mackenzie, Rosie just started hanging out with her and Dom, quote, just a few months prior to the accident. We were just random. Like, we just randomly started hanging out every day back to back. Next day, she would call me, like, what are you gonna do? What are you gonna do? And what are we gonna do. And so that's, you know, why I feel like I can speak from a point of like a lot of people want to say there's crazy Internet speculation and a lot of people say, how could you not know their relationship was so toxic? But personally, we just didn't really see that side of them. I mean, as I said, we only started hanging out with them in the months prior. So I, I, she's saying like I, I'm not like I didn't know them for years. And that was another thing online, a lot of people were saying things along the lines of, well, I mean, we are all bashing Rosie, but at least she's a ride or die best friend to mackenzie and we would all probably want a ride or die best friend. Rosie states that she actually is just like a recent friend with MacKenzie. She states that while they did hang out every day for a few months because they had gotten to know each other a few months before, the CR states, it's not like they're best friends. She states that she already has her best friends. She has her really close friend group and MacKenzie is new to the friend group. She states that she does not feel the need to cover up for her or anything. Rosie states that it just wouldn't make sense for her to lie and stand by mackenzie because they're not really best friends like that. Rosie states, it seems like the Internet is all accusing her of covering up for MacKenzie, but she states that she doesn't have a reason to cover up for mackenzie because they're not even best friends friends now in the FOIA file, I mean there's, I tried my best to verify. There is a little over 600 pages of text messages between MacKenzie and Rosie. We did read through all of it just to figure out what kind of friendship it was. It was kind of a bizarre friendship. So for example, July 6, 2022, Mackenzie texts Rosie, do you like matcha? Rosie responds, my mom's being really annoying and I have to go shopping with her to get food. I asked her for food money and she started arguing with me. Mackenzie responds, oh, damn, come next time. And also like, you post yourself in a bikini and like show your butt. But like, if I did that, my whole TikTok would be getting fucking banned. I'm so jealous. Yeah, I need to get money, bruh. I don't even know what I'm gonna do to get famous. Oh my God. I don't know why they do that to certain people. Dude, we're perfect duo to be famous. This is 25 days before the crash, Rosie tries to sympathize with MacKenzie about her TikTok that keeps getting banned. They banned, like, three of your accounts, I feel like. And literally like, we're gonna be on our model shit. MacKenzie sends Rosie a picture and says, this is what got removed. Moved. Rosie explains that she tried to send Mackenzie a TikTok, but they banned Mackenzie, so it's too late. Your account is there but no profile pic. And I can't DM. MacKenzie's freaking out, like, oh, my God, they took my profile pic. Should I go private? I hope they don't ban my whole account. That happened to me the other day and then it just went back to normal. MacKenzie will then send Rosie, I'm making a media kit. You gotta tell me if it's good. Side Note, this is MacKenzie's media kit, by the way. And she writes, my name is Kenzie Cherella. I'm a petite model from Cleveland, Ohio. I love to express my personality through fashion and photography. One of my goals on social media is to help people be themselves and embrace the style they love. I'm extremely body inclusive. I would love for brands to be more inclusive to the smaller sizes as well as the larger sizes. I'm extremely big on healthy living, clean brands, organic food. And then MacKenzie will just like, suddenly text Rosie, do you know you can order animal shit anonymously to people's houses? Like, when I say animal, I'm talking like elephant shit. Like that or lion. Seven hours later, Mackenzie is asking Rosie, how much do you make from TikTok? Rosie's like, Depends if I have a good month. Like, good videos. That month the Most was like 150. Sometimes it's like 40. Mackenzie's like, Dude, I'm jealous. I need to get in on that fund. I have $88 from going live. I want more. Oh, my God. I've never made anything going live, only from the creator fund. And so there's like, just like rants about TikTok, mainly MacKenzie complaining. She complains that someone reported her account for being under 14. She has Rosie fill out something that's gonna help confirm that she's not under 14. Rosie writes, okay, I filled it out and said, hella. About how you're an influencer, literally graduated high school, and you're being mass reported for being 13 when you're not even and none of your content violates anything and it's your job. Exclamation, exclamation, exclamation. Mackenzie writes, I love you so much. And bruh, tomorrow's gonna be be so fun. Yes. They better give you your fucking account. I'll fuck someone up. They better. I'm manifesting mackenzie complains literally. I don't even know how to get my followers back. Honestly. Just push out hella good content because they love you and new account tend to blow up. I'm so sad about this account. Fuck TikTok. MacKenzie is very nice to the people that she. To the people that have the things she wants. So for Rosie, it seems like it's the followers. Rosie had at that point, like 200,000 followers on TikTok and YouTube. MacKenzie never really got more than a few thousand. So her attitude towards Rosie seems vastly different from how she treats other people that she doesn't really want anything from. I mean, like, you saw the way that she was texting people and DMing people and just being a brat. She doesn't seem to show that side to Rosie. So I was kind of surprised by that in the 600 pages. I was just trying to figure out the depth of their friendship and it seems like they just like share weird ideas back and forth. MacKenzie will text Rosie, you should make a TikTok vlog of you tripping. Okay, this one I thought was a little weird.

[B]

What? Why?

[A]

Yeah, because exactly. MacKenzie has been complaining about how TikTok has been banning her account non stop. And then all of a sudden she's like, you should make a TikTok vlog of you tripping. Which is. I'm like, are you trying to sabotage. Like it was weird. Not that I'm like defending anyone, but like it's just like a weird kind of suggestion.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which feels sabotaging to me, but I don't know. And then she hits it with an LOL, to which Rosie responds, LMF. LMFAO. I want to so bad, but my mom has TikTok and I blocked her, but her weird ass would make another account count. Smh. I wish I could post like that too. My mom follows me too. And just some like random texts from MacKenzie that read, yeah, this Thursday, bitch, we're about to look bad as. And another one from MacKenzie. I feel like you're gonna be scared at my driving. We're the exact opposite. So this MacKenzie is picking up Rosie and Rosie is expressing how it's nice to be driven once because she's usually the one picking people up. And MacKenzie tells her, but like, I love to drive too, but I'm crazy though. And mackenzie is just kind of yapping. Another text says, I think I'm gonna make a YouTube, but I don't know what to record on or what, what videos to make later. They joke about tripping on shrooms at the carnival, which MacKenzie thinks is quote bro euphoria moment. Rosie says, no, literally. MacKenzie says, I'm excited. To summarize, nearly all 600 pages felt like variations of yes, you're so hot. No, I love you. No, you're the cutest. Fuck. Why is your mom being annoying? Your TikTok got banned. I'm so pissed for you. It felt like, I will say, not like a particularly deep friendship. There was no personal conversation. There was no like much relatability. Much of their friendship is based off of taking photos of each other. Mackenzie texts Rosie, that's what I'm saying. The pictures are going to be fire. I don't care if people are staring. If they're not talking about pictures, they're talking about social media. Rosie will text Mackenzie, bro, when you were banned yesterday, your Baby Cushy account was on my fip like three times. Every time I opened TikTok, MacKenzie responds, no way. Same with you. To be honest, your videos are all over my fip. And then Rosie would respond, oh my God, work. We're famous. Mackenzie says, I need to hit 100k. Yes you will. You should try scripting with that. Like when I was popping on YouTube, I was manifesting by writing every day. I have however many followers or subscribers or this video got this many views and it works like a charm, bruh. Keep manifesting. I'm manifesting my account back right now. Rosie's like, yes, I haven't scripted in so long, I feel like it works the best. Mackenzie's like, I would usually write on paper, then burn. And then Mackenzie informs Rosie that she's gonna take on the nearly impossible task of cooking for herself. She texts, I'm gonna try to make myself an egg. It's embarrassing, but I don't know how to do it. Lol. This is like kind of one of the more in depth conversations they have. Rosie responds, ew, not an egg to eat. I hate eggs. Yes. Lol. I like the gooey. Haha. I'm done with eggs, bro. I used to love them. True. Is that like vegan to you? Rosie says, I'm such a hater. Yes. Like I'm almost vegan if I didn't eat chew cheese. I only eat eggs if they're grass fed, free range, no hormones. Mackenzie says, though, I'm not gonna make them. I don't want to smell, I don't want you to smell when you come because I would hate that. And Rosie's like, hahaha. No, you're okay. Mackenzie says I'm weird as with smells. I'm good with smells. Dude. You can try sea moss. Oh my God, yes. Do you want Chipotle? I'll make Dom go get you some too. I'm okay. Bet.

[B]

So they never fought in the text. Like, you know how Mackenzie will crash out and.

[A]

No, and I think it's literally because. Well, here's me speculating. But I do think that Mackenzie is very kind to people who she thinks will help her get what she wants.

[B]

Yeah. Because she cares about herself.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's so interesting. So she's very polite and just supportive.

[A]

Yeah. Other than the only part where I was like weird was when Mackenzie was like, you should make a vlog of yourself. Tripping, tripping. It felt a little sabotagy after all of her rants about getting banned on TikTok for doing nothing. And then she's like, hey, violate community guidelines right now. It was just kind of weird. Okay.

[B]

And you think that's why Rosie response, you know, describes MacKenzie in that way is because of. That's kind of the friendship she has with.

[A]

Yes. I think it would be understandable to see where Rosie is coming from in how she describes. Describes her relationship with Mackenzie and how she specifically felt about Mackenzie. I think the part that people might have problems with for sure is the fact that you didn't know her that long and you had more of a surface level friendship. And yet it does seem like she has a lot of hope and faith in Mackenzie's that this was an accident. Like they don't 100% think it's an accident, at least from what they told our researchers in the sense of like, they're dead set. Like this was an accident. They're not like Mackenzie and Mackenzie's parents. They are more so they stayed on the side of. Yeah. I think it's completely understandable for Rosie to speak on her friendship with Mackenzie. And it does seem like Mackenzie was a very nice friend to Rosie to some degree, at least in the 600 page text message thread. But I think where people have a problem is when she uses this shorter friendship to kind of like a character judgment. Yes, exactly.

[B]

So I think you don't know Mackenzie well enough to.

[A]

And just because she was nice to you for five, five, six months doesn't mean that you can really wholeheartedly, ten toes down, talk about her character, I think, is what people are feeling and saying, I Think that's why, you know, there's like kind of the weird argument of people are saying, like, would it be better if they were best friends forever? You know, because then it's like you can kind of understand. It's like, maybe you grew up together and you're like, so this is your only friend? I don't know, but I wonder if

[B]

it's like long, long term friend. Like, then you can really see the pattern of someone. You're like, yeah, I can. I can see her doing that. Yeah, she's crazy.

[A]

Like, but then if you just know someone for like a short period and they're so nice to you, maybe. But yeah, that's the argument that people have online, which is like, you can have those feelings, but you can't really be a character witness. Also, side note, Rosie at one point is like complaining about TikTok, banning her randomly and then like unbanning her or whatever. And then she says, I don't understand their stupid ass app. Okay, this is Rosie. Mackenzie responds, oh, that's so weird. It's probably because it's run by Asians.

[B]

Mackenzie, yeah.

[A]

They rant about their boyfriends together. Rosie will text Mackenzie about Bubba, her boyfriend. We're fighting. This motherfucker is so annoying. Like, why am I even with him? Mackenzie's like, what do you do? Oh, we're still coming. But he's always fucking arguing. Like, shut the fuck up. Stop bringing stuff up that you know is about to start an argument. To which Mackenzie responds, remember, you're the top dog bitch. Tell him to shut the fuck up if he says anything when you're here. Yeah, period. So it doesn't seem like they talk in depth about their relationships. Like, these are very, like, no, you're the baddest bitch. You don't need him. Like, it's very. Okay, thanks.

[B]

They don't go in depth.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Now they also contemplate why their boyfriends are so bad at taking pictures. Mackenzie wonders, why are they like this? Rosie says, I'm better off with a tripod. MacKenzie also just rants about everyone, generally speaking. You know, she even sends Rosie this audio message where she says, quote, I'm just gonna send you this voice memo because it's easier. The second party we went to on the fourth, the it was like Strongsville popular people. Like, I don't even know it was open invite, like this big ass mansion. That's why I was like, you guys need to come because, like, somebody was asking about Bubba. And then I was like, I invited Rosie and Them, but I don't know what they're gonna do. Fudgeing Haley, you know, De pompei demagon. I don't know. Like, she's saying something. Okay, I can't really decipher. And all of them were there. Haley came up to me and was like. She's like, please don't hate me. Literally being like, don't hate me, don't hate me, don't hate me. And I was like, haley, you made a tick tock about me. Like, I seen it. And then she was, like, playing dumb. And I'm like, haley, I actually, like, have the tick tock. I have the tick tock. I literally showed her. And she's like, I'm gonna be real. I made it. I'm like, haley, I know you made it. That's weird. Like, only insecure people make fun of people. And I was like, we can set that beside us. Us. Whatever, you know, whatever. You're drunk. It's, like, cool. And she's like, we need to hang out, try to, like, be all cool with me. So even when she rants about people, it's not as, like, intense as how she does with other friends. So far from what I've seen, like, she's not saying, like, that stupid bitch needs to go back to Subway. Like, she's not really, you know, but it's just, like, weird. Mackenzie rants about how, quote, this person is making me so mad right now, driving 27 and a 35. That's about it. Like, there's not really much substance to their friendship. And you do with that information what you want. Will. Rosie tells Netflix, I genuinely do not think that this could have been on purpose, intentional, or planned. Like, it doesn't make sense to me. We were all friends. Rosie tells Netflix, I was with them every single day, and I wasn't, you know, there wasn't daily arguments. It wasn't like, anything crazy like that. Rosie states to our researchers. It's so weird because now I'm just seeing people online making fun of me for saying, oh, we had the best friend group. But it really was, like, a really chill vibe. And up until even that night, we were doing the stuff that we would normally do. Watching tv, watching movies, going outside, just talking, listening to music. It's like a lost art form, and nobody even does that anymore. And it was like we would do these wholesome things, and it just feels like a lot of the toxic relationship drama is kind of sweeping that up. Like, we somehow were involved in any of that or saw it and genuinely never saw anything like that. And if we ever did hear anybody threaten anybody or if they were arguing that night or if they were arguing about anything, we would be the first people to say that. I would not sit here and defend something or just lie about. About, you know, what now is a double homicide or about my friends losing their lives in general.

[B]

Also, she's saying that she actually doesn't know they have a toxic relationship.

[A]

Or. Okay, her thing is more so people are trying to break down why she's telling people that she did not witness a toxic relationship. But Rosie is saying, but I'm only speaking on what I witnessed when I was around them. But then she also acknowledges two things can be true that though she's saying, like, obviously, I didn't see those text messages. Like, she's saying, like, obviously, I don't have their phones.

[B]

Yeah. So all the info, like all the videos we've seen of Rosie talking about is she didn't know. Yes, basically. What.

[A]

But I don't know how she stands. I don't know if she's standing. I don't know how much of the text messages she's seen now. I don't know if she thinks that they had a toxic relationship or if this is a normal toxic relationship for high schoolers in her mind. I don't know know. Rosie states that the only nice responses that she really receives now after the Netflix documentary is like, okay, well, I guess you're a good friend, though, for keeping her secrets and defending her because you love her so much. And Rosie states that she is not doing that. She says, literally the whole online response is, every single person just thinks I'm lying or covering up something for her, and I would never, ever cover up a murder. That is insane.

[B]

So what. What made people think she's covering for Mackenzie again?

[A]

Is it the hesitancy to talk to the police? And. And it does seem that Rosie does not think that Mackenzie did this intentionally. And I think that makes people question Rosie because a lot of people have seen the FOIA file. A lot of people have heard from Dom's family members. They just don't see why Rosie could say that having such a shorter friendship with mackenzie. And then I guess people are also confused because they're like, okay, well, Rosie and Bubba were closer to Davie on. I will say that there are, like, two points in the text messages where Mackenzie complains about her relationship with Dom. But from judging by Rosie's responses, again, none of them are kind of taken seriously. Rosie does say that they had conversations in person. But I don't know. It's just like very. There's not a lot of depth. So I can see maybe why she's saying that she didn't see it at that time. I don't know. Summer is the perfect time to rethink what clothes you're reaching for every day. You want lighter fabrics, better materials, pieces that you feel good the moment that you put them on. That's where Quince comes in. They focus on high quality essentials. Think breathable linen, soft organic cotton, washable silk, but without the luxury markup. And it's not just clothing. Quince has really become a destination for elevated essentials across home, kitchen, bedding and beyond. Quince's European linen line has just the perfect summer closet essentials. I've recently been loving their 100 European linen pajama sets. They come in summary gingham, the quintessential stripes and neutrals lined with piping. I mean, I've been loving quints for a while now. Their Mongolian cashmere that starts at just 50 is a favorite. Quince has me dressed and put together during the day and now I have the perfect pajamas for summer nights as well. Elevate your summer wardrobe. Go to quince.com rotten for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's quince.com rotten for free Shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com rotten please hold your wait time is 1 billion minutes. Oof. Spending your whole day trying to get help is the worst. But Southern New Hampshire University? They'll treat you better. Their online students get unreal support from real people, people who can help with your application, check your papers for errors and answer literally any questions you have along the way. It's like SNHU actually wants you to succeed. Crazy, right? SNHU truly is chef's kiss. Get started at snhu. Edu Rotten. Picture this. It is the end of a long week. You're unwinding in the tub, listening to your favorite true crime podcast, and then chronic hives come back again in the middle of the episode. Like what a wet blanket looks like. Another spell of itchy, swollen, red or skin colored hives. If you have chronic spontaneous urticaria or csu, there may be a different treatment option. Worried about your chronic hives interrupting our next episode? Learn [e-mail] Rotten.

[B]

And it does sound like Mackenzie take everything twisted to her side and tells it that like this is what happened

[A]

versus what really happened? Of course. And Mackenzie is also kind of fickle. So, like, there will be one time where she's texting Rosie about how she got into a huge fight with Dom. And she's like, ranting about Dom, but it's like, very vague. It's like, oh, he's so dumb. Like, he's so blah, blah, blah, blah. And then Rosie's like, oh, no. And then Mackenzie will text, you want to come to Dom's? If you want, we can take Dabs. Which, like, why would anyone want to go there if they're fighting? So Rosie is like, lmao, it's okay. You don't want to come. Should I? Yeah, you can come. Okay. He lied to me, so I' ma smoke all his dabs. So then Rosie is like, haha, period. So it's like very like. It doesn't. Yeah. But again, the main reason we wanted to talk to Rosie and Bubba is to ask them what happened that night. I mean, there's no way that you can definitively know the truth, but there were two people that were there, and this is what they've had to say about that night in question. They state that MacKenzie and Dom were not fighting that night at Paul's, and they state, it's frustrating that the documentary painted it as if Rosie and Bubba were the only two others at the party gathering, but they're saying there's two other people, Paul and Nina. So I guess they're expressing to our researchers, like, what would all four of us gain out of, like, lying about them not fighting that night? They're like, it doesn't, like, make sense why people are like, no, they definitely fought that night. Like, they're. They're confused why nobody believes them when they say there was no fighting that night. Bubba says he was awake with the guys most of the night. Like, they were all on the couch. So it was Bubba, Davion, Dom, and Mackenzie. And they were just like, watching TV. MacKenzie was falling asleep. He says that. Oh, there was one thing that he mentioned, which is, like, right when Mackenzie, Davion and Dom arrive to Paul's house, within a little bit, Mackenzie and Dom leave briefly. So they go back to Dom's house, and Bubba says they were gone for like 15, 30 minutes because, quote, they all ate healthy. Like, they ate non gmo, so they would always have, like, special snacks. And they ended up having to go back home, like 10 minutes after they got there to grab their snacks, to grab popcorn and to grab. I think it was like blueberries or some shit. That's what he says. But then they ended up going to back to grab those separately. So they leave Davion.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And they went in the car and when they came back it was still perfectly fine. So he was like, yeah, they were gone for 15 minutes. But he doesn't think that they were fighting in that time because it didn't seem like they came back tense. Like it seemed like they were in a happy mood when they got back. But I guess his thing was, if Mackenzie had planned to kill Dom, why wouldn't she have done it on that drive? I guess is maybe the insinuation, because he's like, you know, that's a whole thing that's completely left out about that night. But again, like I said, a lot of netizens don't think it was like pre planned days in advance. It was more so like maybe an argument broke out in the car on the way home. Maybe an argument did not break out when they went to go grab snacks. So the next morning they wake up or. Well, Mackenzie wakes up. A lot of the others hadn't gone to sleep. Bubba and Davion have plans. Bubba says Davion was going to help him, quote, paint the bottom of my truck and paint it black and get all the rust off and everything. And we were gonna do that. And he was like, oh, I could just come back to your house so we could wake up and take do it. And I was like, I mean, that's fine with me. And then at the last moment, so he's supposed to go home with Bubba, sleep at Bubba's and then do it. But then at the last minute he's like, you know what, I'm just gonna go home, AKA Dom's shower, sleep, like we'll hit each other up maybe around noon. Mackenzie, Dom and Davion get into the car. The two don't make it a huge conversation online since the release of the documentary. And it's not necessarily what was said in the documentary, but people looking into the case. There have been conversations, like I said, from those police reports of other interviews, of friends, friends, just like hearsay, that Rosie stated to someone that she drove by the crash site that morning before the police were called. And whether she didn't see it or didn't call the police, like that's been like a huge conspiracy online, right? Our researchers asked Rosie and Bubba says, look, the police have video of Mackenzie's car turning onto Progress, okay, that turn. And if anybody else went that route, anybody they knew, anyone in the car, they would see it in camera. Like Bubba says, it's obvious from a logical standpoint that this is not true. And somehow the media is running with it, with it. So we kept pressing them on it because we're just like, well, we just want to know where this is coming from. And they state that there's a friend, a supposed friend, who had gone to the police and said that Rosie was super emotional and had made a comment about how she drove past them that morning on her way home from Paul's. So she also left Paul's, drove by the crash site. And, like, that's also making her even more emotional now that, you know, she knows they're dead. So they're explaining like, okay, okay, basically, and this is verified through the police interview, there's someone who went to the police and was like, you know, Rosie was mentioning how she was so emotional because she also left Paul's that morning and drove by the crash site on her way home. So, like, it's kind of up in the air, what that means. But it. A lot of people on the Internet took it with. She drove by the crash site. Like, she saw the car or could have seen the car. Maybe she didn't look out the window, but drove by that exact road where the car was crashed into the building. That's how everyone's taking it. And of course, a lot of people are spinning it in the more nefarious way and saying, like, she drove by, saw Mackenzie's car, and was like, holy, Mackenzie actually went through with it. So she doesn't call the cops, and she just keeps driving home. And then, because maybe she feels guilt, maybe she feels all these emotions. She mentions it at, like, one of the vigils, and it becomes the whole thing. It gets reported to the police. So we're like, we just need to know, where were you? Like, where was the. They pretty much, like, got a Google Maps explanation, gave it to the researchers. They're like, we live here. This is where Bubba lives. This is where Rosie lives. Like, they were giving the full breakdown of the entire town. Now, if we deduce the main points, Rosie had gotten up. So Rosie had slept. So she gets up and she's, like, gathering her stuff. She had gotten up to use the restroom. She's gathering her coloring books. And eventually her and Bubba are like, let's go. Like, we want to sleep in the bed. Like, let's go to Bubba's house. And they said that they were gonna go to Bubba's and they were gonna both sleep and wake up later around noon. Because remember, davion was like, oh, yeah, I'm gonna come help you with your car around noon.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So they both drove separately to Paul's. Bubba gets in his car, and Rosie gets in her car. Her whole thinking was, Bubba's parents are pretty strict, so they don't let her sleep over. But it's daytime, so, like, technically she can take naps. So, like, this is kind of like a nap. So then she drives to Bubba's house, and she states that when she gets there, Bubba's mom has Covid. So she's like, you know what? Maybe not smart for me. So forget it. I'm just gonna drive home. So she gets to bubba's and then decides she's gonna drive home. And the only way for her to drive home is using, really, the main road, which is Pearl, not progress. Pearl. Pearl is the main road. Like, this is where all the restaurants are. This is where the Starbucks is. Apparently, there's so much traffic on Pearl. But Pearl, she passes the entrance of progress where mackenzie had turned right. She passes the entrance. She does not go on to progress ever.

[B]

Got it?

[A]

That's what she says now. She passes the entrance, and she also, like, is saying, if I had. And I wasn't, like, talking to the police, I guess the argument is, like, the police would have known and they would have.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That would be a crazy detail.

[A]

Yeah. And there's, like, no mention of it anywhere. Right, right. She thinks that this rumor could have started because everyone was gathered at the crash site, like, 50 or 100 people after the car was taken. And. And there was flowers. It was like a vigil that was set up, and a lot of the high schoolers would just kind of hang out there because it was a way to grieve together and not alone. And she says, maybe somebody there heard that I drove down Pearl, and maybe it got mistranslated. And everybody there is just obviously, like, trying. I mean, there was just a bunch of rumors going around to everybody trying to speculate on what had happened. So she states that she never specifically spoke to the person that told the police this, but she thinks maybe that's how this whole story got started. Because I. I can see that. I could see Rosie being emotional and, like, mentioning, like, I was just driving down Pearl on the way home.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

And I passed the entrance, and then it just kind of. Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah, yeah. And this is less pertinent information, but I thought it was interesting. Okay. But Rosie told us that on the drive home from Bubba's. She's driving down the main road, passing the entrance of progress. Not on progress, but passing the entrance. And she said that she was getting really emotional. So the whole theme of the night at Paul's, and technically all of this was it was a graduation party, and they've been going to all these grad parties. She says, we're going to college soon. We were all locked in to go to different colleges. Me and Nina were going to a college that was like two and a half hours away. Bubba was going to a college that was two hours away. So it was just kind of a lot of stress. And then Kenzie and Dom weren't going to college, and neither was Davion, and our friend Paul was going somewhere else. So it was just like everybody was getting separated. So the whole theme of that night for us was just like everybody was getting separated. And, you know, we're going to college, kind of scared we're gonna leave home and we're gonna have to make new friends. So on my drive home, I'm literally reflecting on the fact that this city that I'm driving through, because as I said, you know, this is the main road. I have so many memories in this city. I'm passing by the carnival that we went to. I'm passing by all this stuff, and I'm literally, like, crying in the car.

[B]

Rosie's crying?

[A]

Yeah, that's what she says, right? I mean, this is obviously like an anecdotal story that is not relevant to the case, but she's just like, was giving us a lot of context. And she says, like, there was this beautiful sunrise and it felt like a warm summer morning, which I. That's the only thing I could fact check, which the sunrise and the time that she's driving home does check out. And she says, you know, I have all my windows down and I'm not even playing any music. And I'm just like, wow, this city isn't so bad. And I have a nice friend group now. But then also kind of sad because now we're all going to separate colleges and I have to try and find new friends in college. And she says, you know, I feel like when I was growing up, we're like, I hate the city. Everybody sucks here. Like, this place sucks. And then I finally had a moment where I was like, maybe it's not that bad. Like, maybe I'm gonna miss it here, here. And then I got home, I went to sleep, and I got woken up by a phone call from Bubba, and he was just like, Bawling his eyes out. And I couldn't even understand what he was saying. She mentions how she told this all to the Netflix documentary producers and they actually wanted to film a whole scene. So they were like, planning on doing a whole, like, a recreation of the sunrise moment where she's driving, right? But she says, I don't know how it all just ended up getting cut out. Side note, it seems that Bubba found out about the crash because Davion was. Had been staying with Bubba's for a little bit, and the head football coach had called Bubba's mom. Bubba was waiting for Davion. So he was actually outside in the driveway prepping his truck for Davion to come and to help with the truck. So he said that he was trying to make sure the lines were straight, doing all the prep work under the truck, and then, quote, that's when my mom came out and told me. And, yeah, that's is just a mess after that. Ultimately, Bubba said, states multiple times throughout this call. Mackenzie was not my friend. And I know this might sound harsh or it might come off as a bad way, but if she would have lost her life in that accident or some, like, really excruciating evidence came out and she got booked for, like, 30 years to life, and it was a harsher sentence than what she has now. It would not affect me in any way. I would not care. Mackenzie was not my friend. She was more of Rosie's friend. They always did their thing, like when we always hung out. I mean, I've had a handful of conversations with her. I was never her friend. Davion was the closest thing to a brother for me since him living with me. I own one of his football jerseys. He got buried in the other one. He was truly the closest thing to a blood brother to me. So my whole stance on this is I just want to know the truth, the reality of it, at least for me. I don't care how long she sits in jail. I don't care about any of that. What I care about is knowing the true story of knowing how they lost their lives. Rosie has. Oh, okay. Side note about. There was a lot of people thought that Rosie was doing the Netflix documentary for social media attention. And they do bring up her social media handles. And there's like, parts where Rosie is like, oh, yeah, when I met MacKenzie, I had 200,000 followers on YouTube, right? Rosie says she wanted the producers to not include any of her social media. She says that it was irrelevant to the case because it's not like they were doing videos together, and she's mainly on YouTube doing her fitness stuff. And that has nothing to do with mackenzie. So she said that she didn't want any of it on there. But then the producers, during the eight hours were asking her what she does for work. And then they would ask her, like, oh, how many followers did you have when you first met MacKenzie? And she says, but you have to understand, like, I sat down and they asked me all these things, and I just answered. I wasn't being careful with the questions I was answering. I was literally answering every question. There wasn't one question that I didn't answer, basically. So she's stating that she did not do the Netflix doc for Fame. She said that she specifically requested it not be included. And then they were like, asking her. So she was just saying answering. Bubba states that he has text messages with the documentary crew stating that Rosie's social media is not relevant. So he's also confirming, like, okay, we're not going to use her social media, right, because they're dating still. And so he's like, just checking in, like, Rosie wants to make sure. So it seems like he's saying that he has some sort of text messages with the documentary crew talking about how Rosie social media isn't relevant. I. I did not see that text message, but that's what he told us. Now, I do want to note that there are members of Dom and Davion's family that do not seem to appreciate what Rosie and Bubba have been saying, what they said in the Netflix documentary, and maybe things that have been said and done behind closed doors. I could imagine that they probably didn't appreciate maybe Bubba talking about the pendulum in the police interview. Like, I could see how that could be highly offensive to Davion's family as well. Rosie and Bubba state that they just want to know the truth of what happened. They expressed wishes that the trial could have been what they believed to be fair. They didn't necessarily think the trial was fair. They thought that MacKenzie's attorney competent. They didn't like the fact that the defense did not call in an expert. So there was no expert called in to testify that MacKenzie's pots could have played or couldn't have played a role. So they. I mean, the trial only lasted four days, so they just felt like they don't definitively feel like they know what happened in the car that night is how they state they feel. And while they do think that they would like a new trial, they also expressed like they know it would just open so many wounds for the victim's families. So, like, they. It seems like they get it. Rosie also says she feels like the families quote, took us originally canceling those interviews as really suspect. And she says, recently, I didn't even know this happened. But they put it in the evidence file that Davion's mom emailed the police and was like, Rosie made this TikTok about somebody betraying her. And I'm assuming it's about Bubba because he's cooperating with the police, remember? And she says, I had no idea they were just taking my random TikTok tiktoks. And I was following these TikTok trends. I had no idea that they connected the random videos and matched it up with me intimidating people to not speak with the police. I think she felt that way because she thought that I wasn't cooperating. Rosie says we definitely thinking back now, we should have just sat down and talked to the police the second everybody else did, because everybody says that somehow suspect. And we literally only canceled it because we really did not want to be involved in some big drug bust, especially when we have no credible knowledge. Obviously, Rosie being there for Halloween of 2022 and dressing up with MacKenzie as playboy Cardi doesn't necessarily make Dom and Davion's family want to be receptive either, you know, more receptive to what they have to say either, to which Rosie says. So in the documentary, Rosie, you know, there's this point where they show the Halloween picture and she's just like, it's Playboi Cardi. Anyone my age knows it's Playboi Cardi. So it's not really touched upon that. That was fucked up. So Rosie's just like, it's not a corpse, it's Playboi Cardi. Right. And so Rosie was saying, yeah, I mean, I think they immediately, the family labeled me as like, oh, you're her crazy best friend and don't hold anybody accountable. And you guys are going dressing as corpses or whatever, you know, a few months after. And the matter of fact about that is. And they edited down in the documentary to just like, oh, we just dressed as Playboi Cardi. But it was really like, no, like, we, no, we really shouldn't have done that. We shouldn't have done that. I was irresponsible. I don't know. We were in college and there's so many things that I would have done differently in hindsight, not knowing how this was all going to play out. But there is a part where she kind of tries to explain their thought process where she was like at this point, Mackenzie was trying to do a lot of things for Dom and Davion. So she was explaining like how they had all planned to go visit Rosie at her college for Halloween because Ohio University is known for having the craziest Halloween and that Dom loves Playboi Cardi. And there was like this explanation about it, which I feel like I did try my best to keep a neutral presentation thus far and this is where I would have to, to voice my very strong disagreement. I think it's good that Rosie realized that they definitely shouldn't have done that because it is, like she said, irresponsible. And they've all said that they believed that Halloween was a way to celebrate Dom and Davion's lives and that even Mackenzie going to the Kid Cudi concert was a way to celebrate Dom. Maybe that's truly how they felt in their hearts as it's happening. But I think the core issue with the Halloween and Kid Cudi and all of that is it's just insensitive. It doesn't, it doesn't matter who you say you're doing it for. She could have been bawling her eyes out the entire time at all of these events. I don't think it's the morally correct thing to do. I don't think many of us could ever be in Mackenzie's shoes and do something like that. They stayed off their personal observations. They do not believe this was an incident where Mackenzie pre planned an intentional murder plot. But they also state that even if it was some sort of freak accident or reckless driving, they both believe that prison time is still warranted. Rosie says at the end of the day, the prison time is unarguable and people do get arrested for killing people in their car, car in car accidents all the time. I mean, it's not like anybody should just get away scot free with nothing. She states that she thinks everyone just took it the complete opposite way and went crazy with the theories. But she says she thinks that there should be prison time but that they should maybe factor in that she was only 17 and lost her boyfriend and friend. Bubba states that the only thing that would make prison time questionable would be if they could absolutely prove that there was some medical incident. Which side note, I will say there were talks with our researchers and I did see a lot of people bring this up, including Steve Shurilla brings this in a recent interview that Dom's family were powerful in the area. Dom's mom is a Criminal defense attorney Christine Russo, and she did work for the prosecutor's office. And so she might know a lot of people. The judge that was presiding over the case, her last name is Russo. I don't think that there's any sort of, you know, neither do Rosie and Bubba. They don't think that there's any sort of familial relation because that would be crazy. Yeah, that would be crazy. Right. But I think that there are conversations of, like, how much, much sway did Christine Russo have in all of this? I don't know. They. A lot of people, including Rosie and Bubba, point out how Christine Russo was talking to the police in an interview. And she said something along the lines of like, I know Mackenzie's defense attorney. Like, he. I don't need to worry about him. Like, he's not a concern. I know his brother, like, and she's just saying, like, he's not a problem, he's not a problem. And some people have kind of interpreted this as like, he's not a problem. But because I know him, like, I know him, I'm going to make sure he's not a problem. I actually did not interpret it like that. I actually interpret it as she's clearly an analytical woman. She's a criminal defense attorney. I could see her trying to understand a lot of the. And there are defense attorneys who are problematic, who are problems, because they will go there and they will say some crazy shit and they'll try to pull out all the craziest. They'll do motion after motion after motion, like just drowning the whole case in just unnecessary paperwork. Like, I think it was meant so. More like that.

[B]

Yeah, Yeah.

[A]

I don't think it was like, I don't think she would ever say that to the police when it's about her son's life and death.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I will note that Bubba has voiced out again multiple times he could care less what happens to mackenzie. Rosie has stated that she does not think that Mackenzie is this evil monster and did not care about either of these boys or that she premeditated the whole thing or did it on purpose. Purpose, which. And this is what I've gathered from reading through every single page of the 30,000 page document of text messages between MacKenzie and Dom. And I only say this because there's really no better way for me to try to explain the feeling that I had reading those messages. Not that my feelings are important in this matter, but those messages felt more akin to a domestic violence situation where the relationship is so incredibly toxic and just the sheer Oppressive nature of Mackenzie's text messages to specifically Dom and only Dom, and how she speaks to him, to me, felt abusive to me. If I was in that relationship or my friend was in that relationship with someone like Mackenzie, I would be scared for them. But Mackenzie could be very well sweet to Rosie and Bubba and portrayed herself differently because that's also very typical in domestic violence situations. Not saying this is one, but with domestic violence, I mean, again, it doesn't always mean that she's hitting him or physically abusing him. But in these types of dynamics, from the text messages I saw, if I had to summarize the letter level of how it makes the reader feel suffocated, it feels reminiscent of an emotionally abusive relationship. And while the trial is another part that we're going to cover, I think the public opinion on this case, a lot of people, from what I've seen, they don't necessarily believe that Mackenzie went out and plotted this whole thing days in advance. In fact, a lot of people think that Mackenzie is likely too narcissistic to want to harm herself just to harm Dom, but rather, there could have been a fight that broke out in the car and in the escalation of rage or whatever emotion that could have come out in that moment. The crash was deliberate. That is how a lot of people feel. That is what they're saying. And I bring up DV not because I'm saying Mackenzie is a domestic violence abuser, but because in relationships, people will behave in ways and do things that they will never do with their friends. It is very, very rare that you have someone on trial for abusing, punching their partner, and the abuser's friends come out and say, oh, they did that to me. Which we will be doing a full episode, breaking down the entirety of the 30,000 pages of text messages so that you know what I'm talking about and you can come to your own conclusion. But I think that there could be a world where Rosie and Bubba did not see that side of Mackenzie at all and actually only saw a side to her that would make it hard for them to believe that she could be someone that could intentionally harm Dom. Just like how Rosie thinks that Natalie Shurilla is a really sweet woman, and I actually believe Rosie in that. Natalie Shrilla is probably very, very kind to Rosie. But Natalie Shrilla, by all accounts of the massive foia, the investigation, the way she conducts herself after Mackenzie's arrest, amongst a whole laundry list of other things, I think Natalie Sharilla is a completely incompetent parent. Who has to have, I think in my opinion has to some degree played a role in the upbringing of Mackenzie that has ultimately led to this and on a real level has probably played a role in the crime crash itself, whether it be loosely, indirectly or directly. Which Side note, she's the one that later states that Mackenzie has a medical condition that could cause her to blackout while driving. But she also got Mackenzie a license and a car. So it's a whole thing. Which brings me to my next point. I think that after the release of the Netflix documentary, Rosie and Bubba are easy to hate figures. In this case, there are parts of the interview that made it to the final cut. You could argue it's editing. You could argue regardless, they're the ones that said it. It does make it easy to hate them. From what's happened with the Netflix talk, I also don't think that they've made it easier for the families of Dom and Davion. Whether it was intentional or not, I think a lot of the things that they could have said and done could have really re traumatized or reheard or reopened wounds for both of the victims families. I think that they could have handled a lot of things differently. Whether we believe it or not, they state in their hearts that they were trying to do right by Dom and Davion and in hindsight they admit to doing some things that they could have done differently. But they tried. I think family members of Dom and Davion would rightfully disagree. But I also do think that instead of focusing on Bubba and Rosie, if you really want to debate the intentions of someone in this case other than Mackenzie, it's also her parents, Natalie and Steve Sharilla who actually played a huge meaningful role in all of this. And that is who we are going to cover in the next part. Stay tuned, let me know your thoughts and be safe and I'll see you in the next next one. Hey, I just Venmoed you for rent. Nice. Now I can instantly spend it whether I'm checking out online with Venmo or using a Venmo debit card. Say more. More.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

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[B]

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