Run the Numbers – Inside Grab: How a Super App Transformed Southeast Asia

Host: CJ Gustafson
Guest: Peter Oey, CFO of Grab
Date: February 20, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the business model and meteoric rise of Grab, Southeast Asia’s leading super app, with its CFO, Peter Oey. Host CJ Gustafson explores how Grab has evolved from a ride-hailing startup in Malaysia to a multifaceted platform offering everything from transport to financial services. They discuss why the super app model has thrived in Southeast Asia, the challenges (and impossibility) of replicating it in the West, the “layer cake” strategy of fintech, cross-selling in Grab’s ecosystem, and Southeast Asia’s untapped potential as a global tech hub. The conversation is practical, energetic, and full of actionable insights for operators and founders interested in international expansion, business models, and fintech.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Origins and Evolution of Grab

• Solving for Safety: Grab started 13 years ago in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, initially to make transportation safer—especially for women—where taxis and public transport felt risky ([06:32-08:30]).
• Ride-Hailing to Super App: After six years of focusing purely on ride-hailing (often competing with Uber), Grab’s acquisition of Uber’s Southeast Asian operations became the turning point ([00:00], [10:14]). It allowed consolidation under a single tech stack, opening the door to food delivery (GrabFood) and, eventually, a suite of other services.

“Scale is really important because it drives efficiency. …We didn’t build different tech stacks — to drive this efficiency and leverage, we just added more products into this particular app that we have, the multi apps. So you have mini apps within an app.”
— Peter Oey ([10:14])

• Super App Defined: Grab today includes ride-hailing (cars, bikes, party buses, shuttles), delivery (food, groceries, pharmacy, courier), digital payments (GrabPay), insurance, lending, and banking—all in one app.
  “[Think] Uber plus DoorDash plus PayPal plus SoFi, kind of all in one app, right? Not four apps, all in one.”
  — Peter Oey ([09:12])

2. Why the Super App Model Works in Southeast Asia

• Localization: Success comes from methodical, city-by-city adaptation to local needs, contrasting to the more global, cookie-cutter approach of Western peers ([11:44]).

• Scale & Impact:

  • 8 countries, 700 cities
  • 6 million drivers, 6 million merchants
  • 42 million monthly transacting users, ~10 million transactions daily ([13:41])

• Demographics:

  • Southeast Asia population: 660 million—half under 30 years old ([14:14])
  • Mobile-first mindset: Most users skipped the PC/web phase, jumping directly to smartphones.

“Half of Southeast Asian population [is] under the age of 30. …They’re actually quite digital savvy…People just lived on phones from the get go.”
— Peter Oey ([14:27])

• Behavioral Contrast with the West:
  Western consumers are used to fragmented, single-function apps and have entrenched web/PC/mobile habits, making supersized consolidation much harder ([16:02]).

“People are just so used to having this fragmented suite of apps…Also, the tech stack was built for one or two products at max at the end of the day…”
— Peter Oey ([16:02])

3. Fintech and the Layer Cake Strategy

• Fintech as Flywheel:
  Grab begins by digitizing payments (GrabPay), then layers lending (to drivers, merchants, and consumers) based on unique data—enabling underbanked individuals and making both customers and service providers more loyal to the platform ([19:33]-[22:22]).

“For example, we lend money to drivers. …Because we know these drivers, they're on our platform, we know how much they earn. I’m willing to actually underwrite them and able to give them some loans to help them…We do the same for merchants…”
— Peter Oey ([19:33])

“[Our] first foray into fintech…was digital payments—trying to get Southeast Asians to move from cash to cashless…Covid…really accelerated the cashless in Southeast Asia.”
— Peter Oey ([23:22])

• Still a Cash Society: Even now, about a third of transactions are in cash ([23:36]).
• Layer Cake Approach: Payments → Lending → Insurance/Banking → More advanced services ([23:22]-[25:01]).

4. Monthly Transacting Users (MTU) and Ecosystem Cross-Selling

• Importance of MTU:
  42 million MTU is “like the entire population of Spain using your app monthly.” The goal is to get each user to adopt multiple services—building loyalty and increasing their lifetime value ([25:01]).

• Cross-Sell in Action:

  • ~2/3 of MTUs use two or three products ([25:26])
  • Subscription models (akin to DashPass/Uber One) drive frequency and basket size.
  • Entry may start at food, mobility, or payments, but cross-sell drives expansion.

“All the cross selling opportunities happens…We started to cross sell also between food and grocery. Now we are also starting to do cross selling between food to mobility and mobility to food…”
— Peter Oey ([27:35])

• Dual-Side Ecosystem:
  Drivers and merchants are also platform consumers—e.g., a driver might use Grab for both work (driving, deliveries) and personal activities (ordering food, taking rides) ([29:01]).

“These drivers are both doing passenger and also are doing all the other forms of deliveries…The throughput of these drivers in a day is maximized and that enables them to earn more also…”
— Peter Oey ([29:01])

5. Advertising: The Next Growth Frontier

• Ad Revenue Opportunities:
  Currently ~1.6% of delivery GMV vs. 2%+ for DoorDash or 3%+ for Instacart ([30:54]).
• Growth Potential:
  Food and grocery delivery are key segments for future advertising-led monetization, especially with targeted FMCG ads.

6. Southeast Asia as a Growing Tech Innovation Hub

• Talent Boom:
  Stronger homegrown and returning diaspora tech talent, not just in Singapore but increasingly in Indonesia, Vietnam, Malaysia, and Thailand ([32:43]).

  “If you compare five, ten years to where we are today, the talent pool in Southeast Asia, especially in tech, has just gone much, much better. …The tech scene is actually now more and more becoming a really growing sector…”
  — Peter Oey ([33:40])

• Advice for Western Expansion:

  • Start with one city/country and localize deeply.
  • Singapore is a common entry point due to English usage and business-friendliness, but Indonesia and Malaysia are also strong options.
  • Product-market fit must be repeated for every country ([35:46]).

  “What you do in one country may not work in another Southeast Asian country…Go in there, say: ‘Okay, what are the behaviors? How do people interact?’…You need to adapt.”
  — Peter Oey ([36:39])

7. Driving Economic Impact

• Empowering the Marginalized:

  • Many drivers and merchants were part of the informal economy; Grab provides a bridge to stable income, financial services, and digital upskilling.
  • During COVID, Grab rapidly onboarded offline small merchants so they could survive via digital orders ([37:34], [39:43]).

  “A good portion of our drivers were from the informal economy. Like, we are their first kind of job that they've got. …We do a lot of retraining for drivers to upskill…We help merchants digitize.”
  — Peter Oey ([37:34])

• Merchant Success Story:
  Peter shares the example of a pizza shop that started on Grab, expanded to 8-10 locations, and eventually went public ([40:51]).

8. Proprietary Technology as a Competitive Moat

• Mapping:
  Grab created their own hyper-localized mapping system via crowdsourcing with their 6 million drivers—indispensable due to convoluted, ever-changing roads, and indoor routing needs ([41:53]).

  “We mapped Southeast Asia…And the way we did it was through crowdsourcing. …We put cameras on [our drivers]…We built our own map…Being very localized is a competitive moat now.”
  — Peter Oey ([41:53], [45:11])

• Other Tech:
  Payment stack and fraud prevention tools are built in-house; third-party solutions were insufficient for the region’s complexity and risk.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the value of scale and localization:
  “Scale is really important because it drives efficiency. …We started to add other products, but it’s all one tech stack.”
  — Peter Oey ([10:14])

• Explaining Southeast Asia’s mobile-first leap:
  “Most of these Asians skipped the web…People just lived on phones from the get go.”
  — Peter Oey ([14:27])

• Why the super app model faces challenges in the West:
  “The tech stack was built for more about monolithic or one product…It’s a combination of those things that makes it harder for the US to move to more of a super app concept.”
  — Peter Oey ([16:02])

• On fintech’s network effect:
  “It’s actually a network effect…Their retention is up and productivity is up. So it's a real win-win for both sides.”
  — Peter Oey ([22:22])

• Advice for US companies entering SEA:
  “Really localize your product. …What you do though in that one country may not work in another Southeast Asian country.”
  — Peter Oey ([36:39])

• Mission focus:
  “Our mission is to drive Southeast Asia forward. …How do we empower Southeast Asians, especially the marginalized?”
  — Peter Oey ([37:34])

• On building a moat:
  “It’s not easy to replicate what we did from a tech perspective, from a localization perspective. …It’s taken 13 years for us to get to where we are today.”
  — Peter Oey ([45:11])

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Origin story & business model: [06:32]-[09:12]
• Super app evolution and Uber acquisition: [00:00], [10:14]
• Localization & scale: [11:44]-[14:14]
• SEA’s digital & youth advantage: [14:14]-[15:10]
• Why super apps struggle in the West: [16:02]
• Fintech flywheel, lending, and digital payments: [19:33]-[23:22]
• Cash vs. cashless: [23:36]-[25:01]
• Monthly transacting users & cross-selling: [25:01]-[29:01]
• Advertising revenue opportunity: [30:54]
• SEA as a tech hub: [32:43]-[36:39]
• Advice to Western companies: [35:46]-[36:39]
• Driving economic activity & merchant digitization: [37:34]-[40:51]
• Proprietary mapping & localization moat: [41:53]-[45:11]

Tone & Takeaways

The episode is energetic, practical, and peppered with real-world operator wisdom and playful banter. Peter Oey brings contagious passion for building both technology and communities, offering a playbook for successfully layering products, creating network effects, and scaling across ultra-diverse geographies.
CJ’s curiosity and financial operator’s lens bring out actionable lessons: whether you're a startup CFO, a founder eyeing new markets, or anyone wanting to understand how digital platforms can empower millions—and generate outsized returns.

“Our mission is to drive Southeast Asia forward ... We still have a long way to go. We always say we only serve 1 in 20 Southeast Asians and we can do much more.”
— Peter Oey ([39:43])