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- [00:01]
Dan Savage
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- [00:50]
Sarah
You're listening to After Action Report at Savage.
- [00:56]
Dan Savage
After Action Report. Welcome to After Action Report where I talk with Savage Lovecast listeners who've tried something new about that new thing they tried this week. Sarah joins me to tell me all about the three way always she just had. So what is a three way always? Listen and learn, Sarah. Welcome to After Action Report.
- [01:16]
Sarah
Thanks for having me.
- [01:17]
Dan Savage
So before we get down to what you got up to, tell us just a little bit about yourself, something you're comfortable sharing.
- [01:23]
Sarah
Yeah, sure. I'm a midlife woman in a state on the east coast. I am single and. And dating and. Yeah, let's go for it.
- [01:33]
Dan Savage
So what is it that you did? What's the new thing you tried?
- [01:35]
Sarah
Yeah, I had an MMF threesome.
- [01:38]
Dan Savage
An MMF threesome. And in your email to us, you described it as an all sides threesome or an always threesome. What is it that you meant?
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Sarah
I think I said all directions.
- [01:46]
Dan Savage
All directions.
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Sarah
Like everyone was involved with each other.
- [01:50]
Dan Savage
So it wasn't two guys terrified that they might bump dicks out of threesome with a woman kind of staying as far orbiting her like a couple of planets and staying as far away from each other as they possibly while still having sex with this woman at the same time. These were two guys who were down to fuck, not just you, but also each other a little bit.
- [02:09]
Sarah
Absolutely. Yep. Absolutely.
- [02:11]
Dan Savage
And this was new for you?
- [02:12]
Sarah
Yep, it was. Yeah.
- [02:14]
Dan Savage
Was it your first threesome?
- [02:15]
Sarah
It was not. I had had some threesomes where there were like three women when I was younger and then more recently a man and two women.
- [02:23]
Dan Savage
Okay, so set the scene. Who are these players? Who are these guys? Introduce us to the dudes.
- [02:28]
Sarah
Totally. So I'm actually kind of dating both of them independently, J. Someone with whom I would say I have a more emotional connection with as well as a sexual connection. We, you know, meet each other's families, we go to social events, the kind of conventional performance. And then M is the other one. He describes himself as bisexual, but he really means that he's truly bisexual but homoromantic. So he doesn't really want an emotional connection with women. I mean, sorry, a romantic emotional connection. I would say that it's the most successful friends with benefits I've ever had, because the terms are really clear and
- [03:03]
Dan Savage
there's an emotional connection there. But what he does. To say that you don't want an emotional connection does not mean you can't connect emotionally with somebody on that level. You don't want a romantic, intimate, ongoing that thing. You don't want that thing, or you're not capable of having that thing.
- [03:17]
Sarah
Yeah, the care is as friends, and everyone's on the same level. Whereas with Jay, there is more kind of emotional romance to it. And I should say that Jay identifies as heteroflexible.
- [03:28]
Dan Savage
All right, so whose idea was the threesome? Did you propose it to them? Did one of them propose it to you? How did it come into come to happen?
- [03:35]
Sarah
Yeah, it was my idea. So kind of knowing that Em is bisexual and knowing kind of who he is attracted to, I realized that Jay fit the bill in terms of physicality and stuff. And then I also knew through just my relationship with Jay, that he was kind of interested in, like, playing with a dick, trying it on for size. And of course, I knew that I was like, totally open to all of this. And so I had independent conversations with each of them about their interest, their limits. You know, I shared photos with each of their permission. Like, consent is so important to all of us. And so I shared photos to be like, what do you think about this guy? You know, and then we talked really specifically about kind of acts. So, for example, it was very clearly state like, it was clear that none of the three of us were interested in, like, whatever the, like, gold medal DP is because M doesn't like anal with women. And frankly, neither J nor I are really into it anyway. And so that was like, immediately clear.
- [04:40]
Dan Savage
DP is a spectrum double penetration. Some people think Eiffel Tower is DP because there's a dick in your butt or your pussy and a dick in your mouth. Other people define it as two dicks in one orifice. But of course, with CIS women, it can be one in the vagina and one in the rectum. Can also.
- [04:57]
Sarah
No one was interested in that.
- [04:59]
Dan Savage
No one was interested in that. All right, so they're down. You set it up. You show them pictures of each other. You know them both well enough to know that they might click sexually. How did it come together? How do you make the date? Where's the big night gonna go down?
- [05:15]
Sarah
Yeah, I mean, so the big night, first of all, has a lot to do with scheduling because, like, two of three of us are parents. Two of three of us work out of town a lot. You know what I mean? So it's just, like, legitimate.
- [05:25]
Dan Savage
Oh, I know what you mean. I know.
- [05:27]
Sarah
You know, so the scene was kind of set, and the idea was that Jay and I, who spend a lot of time together anyway, would, like, romantic time, would just kind of be here and, like, hang in the. In the entryway. And then whenever Em showed up, we would all kind of talk and chat. And then I should say, Jay asked me how I wanted it to go. Like, he's very invested in my consent and leadership and everything. Not leadership in, like, a female led relationship, but, like, in my empowerment. I want to say yes. Oh. And what I said to Jay is, maybe the three of us can chat. And then at some point, I'm just going to remove myself and say, like, I'm going to go to this other area of the residence and. And you two can spend some time together and you can decide if one or two of you is coming my direction. Hopefully not. Zero. I would certainly hope that someone.
- [06:16]
Dan Savage
They didn't run off with each other and get married. You never heard from them ever again.
- [06:19]
Sarah
Right, Right. Exactly. And so that happened. And so Em got here, the three of us hung out a little bit, actually. Hilarious. Em got here and it was like. I don't mean to say that they were like, bro y. I do want to say that they're both directional, like, pretty serious athletes, one of them on ice. And so, like, my biggest F in this whole fucking thing was to not name our group chat, heated collaboration or
- [06:41]
Dan Savage
something, because that was ribaldry.
- [06:44]
Sarah
Right, Exactly. But so he got here, they kind of, like, it was kind of adorable to watch them be like, hey, man, nice to meet you. You know, like, shaking hands. Like, totally. Like a social event. Em immediately spotted some snacks that I've been having on the table. And he's like, who eats pistachios? And I was like, I do. He's like, shit, I am allergic to tree nuts. And I was like, well, lucky for you, we don't even make out because you don't like women romantically. So, like, I think if you're cool with it, you know, so good. Laughs and then I just said, I'm going to go to this other area of the house and maybe just, like, chillax a little bit. You guys do your thing. And then whoever wants to join me is welcome.
- [07:20]
Dan Savage
So what thing did they do while you were off in the other part of the house? Did they break the ice with each other physically before they joined you?
- [07:27]
Sarah
Oh, such a great question. I cannot say if I know the answer to that, because I wasn't watching, but I was listening, and it was just conversational. It was mostly conversational. I should say that Jay, the heteroflexible guy, is not particularly interested in kissing men. It was actually kind of very, like, evenly matched, like, in terms of, like, Em doesn't like to kiss women. Jay doesn't like to kiss men. So there was, like, a kind of order of operations, I guess I can
- [07:52]
Dan Savage
see it's not quite symmetry, but there's a kind of geometry at work here where Jay wants to kiss you. Yes, but Em doesn't want to kiss you. But M might want to kiss Jay, but Jay doesn't want to kiss M. So there are certain limitations imposed on everyone that had to be borne in mind so that Em didn't go in for a kiss from Jay, because it would have been established that J doesn't. Cowboys don't kiss. They used to say among gay men in the 70s, gay men who are like, fine getting their asses fucked, fine sucking a dick, but didn't want to kiss because that was gay. I remember those guys.
- [08:28]
Sarah
I should say it's not for homophobic reasons. He's kissed men before. It's just not his thing.
- [08:32]
Dan Savage
Yeah, yeah. I don't think it has to be necessarily homophobic.
- [08:35]
Sarah
They join me. So Jay is like. And, you know, I was wearing, like, an outfit I knew they'd both like. And so Jay was like, I kind of like to spank you a little bit. And I was like, cool, because that's something we do. And Em was like, I'd like to watch. And I was like, great. And so that began. And then almost immediately, like, Em jumps in, and he's like, on my breasts, and he's, like, getting involved. And I'm like, okay, let's kind of rearrange kind of where we're at specifically to have more horizontal space. And so we go to another area and create more horizontal space. And I mean, immediately, like, took off her clothes and started fucking in all directions. So, like, I definitely experienced PIV with both of them. Definitely did oral with both of them. Definitely Eiffel towered with both of them. And then at some other point, they each, respectively were, you know, sucking each other's cocks and everything. And then, like, we broke. You know, we took, like, a break, and there was, like, a lot of, like, chatting and laughing and, like, just normal hanging out. And then we, like, went back at it and for another round, and then everyone was kind of spent, and I was like, hey, who would like to put your comfy clothes back on? And I'm going to order pizza and we can watch stupid tv. And, like, that was a unanimous delight. And so we did that. We literally, like, turned on the TV in our pajamas and ate pizza and left.
- [09:53]
Dan Savage
Did everybody get off? Did everybody come?
- [09:56]
Sarah
Yeah. Yeah, everybody did. I should say that I had an unexpected sense of performance anxiety. So they both were interested in each other. They also were very interested in making me the center of attention, which I appreciate deeply because I have, like, a little bit of an exhibitionist streak. Like, I don't need to be, like, out in public, but I definitely get off on my partner, like, watching me come. And I think that I. I mean, I did, but getting there, there was a little bit of, like, oh, that's a lot of observation.
- [10:25]
Dan Savage
Double the eyes. It's interesting that you say that, because when people talk about performance anxiety, it's almost always in reference to men or people who are assigned mal at birth. Can't get hard. But performance anxiety is something that a CIS woman or a woman can experience where there's a little bit of a tripwire that throws you out of the moment, and it can be a little harder to focus and get off. And so it's nice to hear you acknowledge that. It's nice to hear a woman talk about preferencing. So I think that'll be a comfort to a lot of guys out there who think that's just a guy thing. It's not.
- [10:58]
Sarah
Thank you. Thank you. And I should say that I have been using Prozac a little bit lately for, you know, in the last year and a half for just some anxiety. And I'm aware that that's really changed my orgasm. And so I, like, didn't sweat it. I just kind of knew that that has often also kind of softened some things. And so I just, you know, like, everyone was very gentle and, like, we got me there. No problem.
- [11:21]
Dan Savage
Okay. I got to know because I got to ask because of J, your regular partner, M, the bi guy who doesn't kiss women. Where did they come? Did they come with each other? Did they give each other orgasms or was it the focus back to you when it was time for the guys to get off?
- [11:38]
Sarah
I would love to tell you that I remember that specifically.
- [11:41]
Dan Savage
Oh, that's what I would put in my diary. Dear diary. That's the first thing I would have written down that night.
- [11:45]
Sarah
No, no, actually, I'll tell you the first thing I wrote down that night in my dear diary. So, like, Jay and I are in midlife. Like, we're both midlife humans. And he's lived a life of being extremely physically fit due to his job. And he's feeling a little self conscious about, you know, a little paunchy, you know, whatever. Like, I think he's hot as fuck and he has like a great dick. Like, and I'm just supposed to take
- [12:09]
Dan Savage
your word for that?
- [12:10]
Sarah
Dick. Well, I'm gonna and I will.
- [12:13]
Dan Savage
I am actually. I am just supposed to take your word for that. And I'm going to.
- [12:17]
Sarah
Thank you. But more importantly, Em was like, dude, you have a great cock. And I know that having the affirmation of this younger man who fucks plenty of men was probably really amazing. So speaking of insecurities and all these
- [12:35]
Dan Savage
things, I have two questions. I always say that don't have a three way. If you can't handle that moment, that it's a two way and you're not one of the two. Because it's always this brief time in three ways where there's this rolling around and two people will click and catch a groove for a second and you're outside it. And if you can't imagine yourself at that moment enjoying watching and being outside it and then figuring out where you dive back in or they're going to at some point pull you back in. And you just have to be confident of that. You can even say that in advance. I know that at some point it might become a two way for any combination of the three of us as a twosome. And that's fine. Everybody at some point remember to pull the third back in. Did it become a two way?
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Sarah
I mean, minorly here and there, but I think that because both of them are interested in watching, no one ever thought about it that way. And I'm gonna like go out on a limb and say something a little like, like controversial and probably not like the kind of feminist that I want to be. But I have found more of that challenge with two women and one man. I think, like when I did like a three woman thing, it was cool. Like that. No problem. This Cool like that. I think there. I think unfortunately there is something socialized or whatever about like two. And I should say, like, I think of myself as kind of somewhere between heteroflexible and queer. And I think that, like, for, especially for like, like real, real, like het women, like straight women, like, there's some kind of fucking. And maybe this is true about like an
- [14:10]
Dan Savage
center of attention during a.
- [14:11]
Sarah
Maybe. I don'. I don't know. So I want to be really, like, gentle and blame that on society and like, the way we force competition between, like, people who are of like, identities. Whether it's like two cishet women, two cishet men who also have homophobia throw in. But I would just say that, like, for me, part of the beauty of like a three way that has any queerness associated with it is, I think probably more often, maybe not always, but at least in my experience, watching his participation and like, championing his participation is part of it.
- [14:42]
Dan Savage
So I have to ask New York magazine out with a big cover story about all these women into heated rivalry. You brought it up first, so I don't feel bad that we're going there. Broaching the hr running to hr, I should say. And like, all these women out there, CIS women, queer women who are like, really into, like, watching two guys fuck, really into mm romance, really love heated rivalry and. And other shows like it that are out there. What was it like? This is the first time you've been in the room when two men were sucking each other's cocks. How was that for you?
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Sarah
It was hot. You know, like, it was. It was hot for me because I knew how into it they were.
- [15:22]
Dan Savage
So it wouldn't have been hot for you if they were just doing for you. And they were both crying while they did it and being traumatized or, like,
- [15:29]
Sarah
performative the way that, like, performative lesbian shit for men is so obvious and,
- [15:35]
Dan Savage
like, so not fucking hot.
- [15:38]
Sarah
No, no. But they were both really into it. And, like, I caught both of their glances at different points while they were, like, giving each other blowjobs. And I loved it. And I also really valued the trust that they felt in me in particular, Jay. Like, that was so I felt really special.
- [15:54]
Dan Savage
Look, Ma, I'm on top of the world, but I've been in that space with somebody who's doing something new that I helped facilitate or set up or I was a part of, and they're like, really? It's a bungee jump. And you catch their eye and they look at you like, holy fucking shit. Yeah, look at me. Look at what I'm doing. Look at me and mom on top of the world. And it's magic to be a part of that.
- [16:17]
Sarah
Yeah. Like, I'm very nurturing. I kind of describe myself as like a very earnest bottom. That's kind of like my role. Like, the idea of being like, what is it called? Like, bratty is so far into me. And I actually named our original group chat the hostess with the Mostest, because I really did feel that way. I was like, lucky me, you know,
- [16:35]
Dan Savage
you were the hostess with the mostest dick in that night. Sarah, would you do this again? Are you gonna do this again? Jay and Em both in your life?
- [16:43]
Sarah
We are already scheduling. It's all schedules, man. We're excited about next time.
- [16:50]
Dan Savage
Sarah, thank you so much for coming in After Action Report. And it was a good experience and I'm glad to hear it.
- [16:56]
Sarah
Definitely.
- [16:57]
Dan Savage
You know, I hope Jay and Em have both expressed their gratitude to you for making this happen for them.
- [17:04]
Sarah
Absolutely. There's been lots of after action kind of chatter and titillation and yeah, we're psyched for next time.
- [17:12]
Dan Savage
Sarah, thanks so much.
- [17:13]
Sarah
Thank you. Bye.
- [17:15]
Dan Savage
Thank you for sharing, Sarah. So glad that three Way always went so well. All right, if you have something you tried recently that you want to tell me and my listeners about, if you want to debrief and decompress with me here on the show, write it up and send it to us at Qavage Love. And you might be my guest on a future after action report. All right. We will have a new After Action report out for you all next Friday. After Action Report.