After Action Report #22

Summary

Savage Lovecast: After Action Report #22 – March 27, 2026

Episode Overview

In this installment of the Savage Lovecast’s “After Action Report,” host Dan Savage talks with a listener, Tom, who shares his firsthand account of participating in a consensual non-consent (CNC) kidnapping scene at a private kink event in the Netherlands. The episode dives into the emotional dynamics, logistics, ethical considerations, and aftermath of orchestrating such an intense fantasy scenario for another couple.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Introducing Tom and Setting the Scene

• Tom’s Background
  • A 45-year-old man living in Canada, originally from the Netherlands
  • Emphasizes his wholesome side: he has twin boys and a positive relationship with his ex-wife and current girlfriend, both of whom support his kinky adventures
  • Quote [01:46]:
    Tom: “On my way to Holland... I got a message from both her [ex-wife] as well as from my current Canadian girlfriend to wish me an awesome time and have the most sexy time at this kink event I was headed to.”
• The Invitation
  • Tom is asked months in advance by a man (the boyfriend of a woman he hasn't yet met) to help execute her fantasy CNC kidnapping at an upcoming private Dutch kink event.

Consent, Communication, and Due Diligence

• Critical Consent Check [04:50]
  • Dan Savage raises ethical concerns:
    Dan: “How do you make sure if you can’t talk to the 'victim'... that this is consensual non-consent and they are interested in being kidnapped?”
  • Tom’s Response:
    • Relied on trust recommendations from his lover, who is friends with the couple.
    • Insisted on meeting and spending time together before agreeing:
      Tom [05:20]: “If I didn’t get along with these people, or I was like, does she really want it? ... I was ready to bail.”
    • Observed the couple’s communication, intelligence, and play style before proceeding.
    • Notably, Tom had rented a white van—“perfect for a gym kidnapping scene”—but was ready to pull out if things felt off.

Planning and Execution of the Kidnapping Scene

• Logistics & Preparations

  • The event was held in a bungalow park rented out to avoid alarming outsiders.
  • The setting included role-appropriate props: black "Friday the 13th" masks, a white van, zip ties, etc.
  • While on a volunteer perimeter walk with the “victim,” the prearranged time and location for the kidnapping were chosen.
  • Dan: “Wouldn’t arranging to have it happen at a kink event... be a bit of a tell?”
    Tom: It’s a compromise for safety and spontaneity.

• The Actual Scene [08:54]

  • Tom and the woman’s boyfriend leap from behind a van and chase down the “victim.”
  • Quote [08:54]:
    Tom: “As soon as she saw us, she turned around and started running. He tackles her to the ground. ... And this is such a beautiful moment because it’s quite violent... but from her face... her going, he, he, he, he, he. It was super wholesome.”
  • The woman cooperates enough for safe restraint but plays her terrified part.
  • Tom pins her legs, zip ties her, and they “throw her in the van.”
  • Dan jokes about the paradoxical violence, comparing it to children’s games like “cops and robbers.”

• Transport and Hostage Setup [10:47]

  • They drive around to disorient her, pounding aggressive Berlin techno in the van (Dan’s “hard no” for himself).
  • The cabin living room is turned into a mock “hostage” area, with bright lights and a fake ransom video for added realism.
  • Tom bows out, leaving the couple to play out the rest, noting the scene was more intense than he’d expected.

Aftermath & “After Action” Reflections

• Catharsis and Emotional Impact

  • Tom observes the aftermath:
    Tom [13:04]: “This couple comes walking out of our cabin. They’re holding hands, they’re almost skipping. Her makeup is running down her face, her eyes are bloodshot, she looks totally frazzled.”
    • When Tom’s partner asks, “Did you cry?” the woman nods and beams, “Uh huh. I did.”
    • Crying was an agreed-upon goal for cathartic release.

• Tom’s Feelings About the Experience

  • Tom [14:16]: “This is my jam... I love doing new things... curating or creating experiences for people, something I really enjoy doing. ... The white van is a really nice touch, so I enjoy that.”
  • He would help orchestrate a similar scene in the future—perhaps less aggressively if for a partner of his own.
  • Tom remains more comfortable as the dominant/kidnapper, not the kidnapped:
    Tom [16:36]: “I think I lean more dominance. ... If I had to be kidnapped, it would have to be by a bunch of dudes. But as soon as there’s women, then I would want to be dominant.”

Kink Community & Event Details

• Setting Exclusivity
  • The Dutch event is very private, invite-only, and intentionally un-Googleable to protect participants.
  • High standards for invitation lead to a high-quality, respectful crowd.

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On Group Bonding & Consent [06:50]:
  Tom: “The ebb and flow of participation was really natural. Communication was strong. They were super smart. ... All signs pointed... these people, like, know what they’re doing.”

• On Paradoxical Wholesomeness in Kink [09:04]:
  Tom: “And this is such a beautiful moment because—it’s quite violent—more violent than I had expected. But ... her going, ‘he, he, he, he, he,’... It was playful, it was wholesome, it was super fucked up and yet it was great.”

• Host Dan Savage’s Caution & Humor [12:39]:
  Dan: “If anyone is out there arranging a CNC kidnapping scene for me right now, pumping German hard techno is a hard limit. That’s a no for me in the van. I just want some Vicki Carr or some Frank Sinatra.”

• On Emotional Aftermath [13:04]:
  Tom: “Her makeup is running down her face, her eyes are bloodshot, she looks totally frazzled... she just nods with a huge smile... I did [cry]. And apparently that had been like an agreed upon goal.”

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:29 – 02:09: Introducing Tom and his supportive ex-wife and girlfriend
• 02:14 – 05:20: Invitation to participate in CNC, consent checks and party logistics
• 06:50 – 08:21: Bonding, chemistry check, and scene planning
• 08:54 – 11:29: The kidnapping scene in detail (chase, restraint, transport)
• 13:04 – 13:52: Emotional aftermath for the couple (“Did you cry?”)
• 14:16 – 15:08: Tom’s personal reflections on his role and the experience
• 15:28 – 16:21: The secrecy and exclusivity of the Dutch kink event
• 16:36 – 16:51: Tom on his dominant leanings and who he’d allow to “kidnap” him

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Summary Takeaways

• Communication, trust, and vetting are crucial in any CNC scene, especially when dealing with new partners and such intense fantasies.
• Roleplay can be surprisingly wholesome even when the script is “fucked up”; adult “cops and robbers” carries a sense of play and catharsis.
• Setting, logistics, and safety measures are as important as any fantasy element in ethical kink.
• Community matters—high standards for event invitees facilitate both fun and safety.
• Emotional catharsis (like crying) can be a positive goal in BDSM play if safely negotiated.
• Personal boundaries and hard limits (techno or otherwise!) matter and should be respected—with room for humor and self-reflection.

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For listeners looking to understand the reality and complexity behind CNC fantasies, this episode provides a candid, detailed, and warm-hearted account—blending practical advice, ethical caution, and genuine delight in exploring new experiences.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Thanks for having me.

[A]

You have a crazy story to share, but before we get to it, before we get to the down to what you got up to, I want to know just a little bit about you. Who is Tom?

[B]

Tom is a 45 year old male living in Canada. I'm originally from the Netherlands.

[A]

Okay, can you give us one wholesome detail? Because your story's wild and I want like a little bit of contrast cause we contain multitudes. I do crazy sex stuff but then I get up early and bake an apple cake for my family.

[B]

I have twin boys and a wonderful ex wife. And just to give you an idea of how awesome she is, on my way to Holland where the story took place, Flying there I got a message from both her as well as from my current Canadian girlfriend to wish me an awesome time and have the most sexy time at this Skink event I was headed to. That's how awesome my ex wife and my girlfriend are.

[A]

Oh, okay, great. So what is it that you did that you wanted to talk about?

[B]

I got asked if I could help facilitate a CNC kidnapping scene.

[A]

CNC Consensual non consent kidnapping scene. So I'm going to infer that there's somebody out there who always wanted to be kidnapped and they empowered someone to set it in motion for them, correct?

[B]

Yes. This was a couple that I was going to be sharing a cabin with at the Skink event in Holland. I actually hadn't met them before, but I was going there with a Dutch lover, and they were her friends. The guy of the couple reached out to me a couple of months before the event. Like, hey, I know we haven't met yet, but my girlfriend really wants to do a CNC kidnapping. Would you be interested in helping me with that? Now, I had in the past considered with a different girlfriend, considered organizing a CNC kidnapping. The one thing we could never figure out was, where can we do this without somebody walking their dog, seeing a woman get dragged into a van, and them calling 91 1? And so we never could really make that happen. I guess you could go to, like, some far remote logging road or something, but it kind of removes the spontaneity of it. So, yeah, when you asked, I was like, this event is at a. Like, a bungalow park. They rent out the whole thing. So if a bunch of people see that happen, there'll be other gangsters. They'll probably shrug their shoulders and go, good for her. So I was like, that got me excited. On the other hand, I hadn't met these two people yet, so that got me a little reserved. So I was like, hey, well, why don't we meet at the event, see how we jive, and if we have chemistry and I feel good about it, then, yeah, let's make that happen. Totally.

[A]

So she didn't know that he had reached out to you?

[B]

No.

[A]

She participated participating in this?

[B]

No, she did not know this was gonna happen.

[A]

Okay. So seems to me that somebody who's told their partner that they might be. That they're interested, not might be that they really want to be kidnapped sometime in a CNC scene, if you drove that person out on a remote logging road, they might figure out it's about to happen.

[B]

Exactly. Yes.

[A]

Right. You want to grab them off the street. You want to make them think you want dinner.

[B]

Yes, exactly.

[A]

You're leaving a party and they're, like, snatched.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

But wouldn't arranging to have it happen at a kink event for the kink to happen when you're already at the kink event? Isn't that a little bit of a tell too? Were they expecting it as a possibility?

[B]

I don't know if she was expecting it as a possibility there specifically. I mean, obviously, as we'll get to, like, as soon as it started happening, she. She wasn't wondering, oh, who might these people be? It was pretty obvious, obviously. But at the end of the day, you're fulfilling a fantasy, and there's gonna be some compromises. I gu it's like you say, it's grown ups playing cops and robbers. And that became really apparent through this whole thing.

[A]

Okay, If I was approached by somebody and they asked me if I would participate in a CNC kidnapping scene because I'm a catastrophist with a bad case of worst case scenario disorder, I would be worried that maybe I've been enlisted in a real kidnapping under the guise of this is a CNC kidnapping scene. How do you do your screw diligence there? How do you make sure if you can't talk to the victim, the person who's about to be kidnapped, then it'll tip them off. How do you make sure that this is consensual non consent that they are interested in being kidnapped?

[B]

Yeah. So for starters, these two people were close friends to my Dutch lover. I trusted her opinion of them and she spoke very highly of them. But then more importantly, I, when he first sent me the message I specifically wrote to him, I was like, hey, let's, let's meet at the event. We're going to share a cabin together. We're going to spend the whole night together. Who might, who knows what might be happening between the four of us in that cabin all night long in the living room, if you will. That's probably going to be a good opportunity to get to know each other. And then let's play by ear the next day. So I needed to rent a car once I got to Holland to get all our gear to the event. So I did already rent a white van. A nondescript white van with a sliding door. It was perfect for a gym. Yeah, it was perfect. She didn't like, the woman didn't know that either. But I was still totally ready to bail, like if I didn't get along with these people. Or I was like, does she really want it? Does she not want it? I don't really know. Then I was ready to. I was like, yeah, this is not a good. It's not working for me. But what happened on Friday night was like we spent a whole night together. First of all, these two were so cute together. They've been together for two and a half years. They were so in love. But then also the way they were having sex, I guess evolved is the word. They were clearly very good at it, but they were great communicators. The four of us had sex quickly. It didn't take long for this to become a group thing. Super organic. Like the ebb and flow of participation was really natural. Communication was strong. They were super Smart. So all signs pointed. It was like, okay, these people, like, know what they're doing.

[A]

So, okay, so set the scene for me. You're going to kidnap this woman who you've already had sex with. You're at the cabin you're staying at. Do you just kidnap her and drive her in circles and then bring her back to the cabin where you've already fucked? Or did you take her to a different location where then she was held hostage until. How did it. What, the plan?

[B]

Yeah. So at the event, there was volunteer shifts for people to walk around the property. Like two people every hour to make sure there was no, like, normies accidentally entering the event and. And seeing things they shouldn't be seeing. So my lover and the woman, they had signed up for a shift. It was like the 3pm shift, I think. So they were going to walk around and that was kind of our opportunity because they were going to be somewhere on this. On this bungalow park. So the guy then transformed the living room into what I can only describe as what it would look like if it was a hostage situation. There was a sheet hanging from the wall and then a really bright light. Apparently he had written this letter that he had to read out loud in front of a camera. He was going to film the whole thing. So he transformed the living room. And then we dressed in fully dark clothes. He had These Friday the 13th masks in black to wear as disguises. And then we jumped in a car and we kind of drove around and we kind of knew what path they were going to follow. So then we parked the van on the side of the road, climbed out and waited behind the van until we saw the two women approach.

[A]

One of the truisms about bondage is that when you read bondage porn, you'll read things like, oh, suddenly I was in handcuffs, or I was wrestled into bondage. And the reality of bondage is you have to cooperate to get into bondage, unless there's somebody pointing a gun at you, which is not a scene I would be interested in, or most people would be interested in. Like, so you jump out to kidnap this woman. Does she resist or does she cooperate? Because, I mean, it's sort of a paradox here. To be kidnapped is to be taken against your will. But she wants to be kidnapped.

[B]

She wants to be 100%. So I would say she was about 100ft away from the car still when the two of us jumped out from the car and ran towards her. And, like, I kind of left the guy mostly in control because I wanted to Sort of calibrate, like, how violent is this gonna be? Right? As soon as she saw us, she turned around and started running. He tackles her to the ground. And then I get closer and he pushes her into the grass. Kind of muddy grass. It just rained the night before, which is perfect because her clothes are like covered in grass streaks. I'm pinning her legs down. But. And this is such a beautiful moment because it's, it's quite violent. Like more violent than I had expected, but from her face kind of muffled into the ground here. And the juxtaposition between what we're doing is really fucked up. And her going, he, he, he, he. He was super wholesome. Like I had not expected wholesomeness to come out of this situation. So he puts zip ties around her. I keep putting her legs down. And then we both pick her up and we throw her in the van again, like it was not gentle.

[A]

And your girlfriend at this moment just took off running the other direction?

[B]

No, she was watching the whole thing, like just standing there, loving it, soaking it up. She's like, this is fantastic.

[A]

I love the hehehe. Like, it sounds like violence. It also sounds like, I don't know, tackle or tag.

[B]

Almost like literally in that moment, Cops and Roberts from your podcast came immediately popped to mind. And what I also found interesting, like I'm not a role playing guy. Like I can enjoy some kinky stuff, but I'm not a role playing guy. And I would have thought that hearing hehehe would have ruined it entirely, but it didn't. It was wonderful. It was wonderful. It was playful, it was wholesome, it was super fucked up and yet it was great. So yeah, it was a real eye opener for me.

[A]

So you carry her to the van and then.

[B]

So we threw her in the back of the van and then he jumped in the van with her. We had rigged up some rope so we could sort of tie her to the side of the van. Then I jumped in the front. He had given me this track of this like super aggressive Berlin speed metal edm, like just pounding techno. And I drove off and I'm like driving around for a while, taking some speed bumps, doing a couple of U turns, going around the roundabout a couple times until we pull back up in front of our cabin. And then I jumped out and slid the door open and we pulled her up, pulled her out of the car, walked into the cabin and we threw her on the mattress in the living room. And that's when I high uphished him and then I basically left.

[A]

So they fupped. He held her for ransom. It wasn't your scene, right. And it wasn't for your lover, but you were a cog in the wheel of this machine. Where did it take them?

[B]

So he gave me a few details. So he told me about the ransom note that, that she had to read. He kept the mask on the entire time. She was also masked and hooded. Hooded, I should say. At some point he took the hood off because he wanted to insert things in her face. Quite violently, I might say. And I happened to notice because. So I left. But after about 15 minutes, I had to pop back in to grab some stuff from the bathroom for another costume I was doing. And I basically caught a few glimpses. Those two were going to town. Like, holy, like. And like that was definitely a moment where I was like, if I had not seen those two interact the day before, I would have maybe, do I need to call the police? Because these two are really going at it. Yeah, it was very aggressive, very committed. Yeah, it's something that, like that, like. And I've, I've done some fairly, not extreme, but I've done kinky stuff and BDSM and thumbs up stuff. But yeah, the way those two were going to town was phenomenal or scary.

[A]

I just want to interject here that if anyone is out there arranging a CNC kidnapping scene for me right now, pumping German hard techno is a hard limit. That's a no for me in the van. I just want some Vicky Carr or some Frank Sinatra. So how did it feel for you? How was it for you? I assume since you guys were staying with them, you and your partner, that you talked with them afterwards, you got their after action report about how it was for her.

[B]

Oh, so the after was fantastic because. So me and my lover, we kind of wandered off and started walking to some other cabins in the nearby area and talking to some of our other people that were attending. And then I would say about an hour later, this couple comes walking out of our cabin. They're holding hands, they're almost skipping. Her makeup is running down her face, her eyes are bloodshot, she looks totally frazzled. And then my lover walks up to her and she says, did you cry? And this girl who's just been completely ravaged, she just nods with a huge smile on her face and goes, uh huh. I did. And apparently that had been like an agreed upon goals of theirs. Like he is, he was supposed to go until she would cry, which again blew my mind. But they pulled that off. I'm so happy these two found Each other.

[A]

Catharsis, man. Like, it is something that people can seek out through bdsm, hardcore sex play. So you know how it was for them. How was it for you? Being like a part of this experience, helping to make what was so desired by her and good for them and good for her, and so tremendously emotionally moving for her. You helped make that happen. What was that for you?

[B]

This is my jam. Like, I. Yeah, this made me so happy to be able to be a part of it. It was a new experience to me. I love doing new things. I also love, I guess hosting is the word, like, but hosting in the broader sense that it was like curating or creating experience for people. Something I really enjoy doing. This was. I'm so happy that I got to be a part of that. The other thing is because four years ago I had a girlfriend that we were really deep into the details on how we could orchestrate the CNC kidnapping. I had always been kind of as a. Not a bucket list item, but I was like, ah, that would be fun sometime. I think it is a neat fantasy that people might have if I ever would do it again. Yeah, I would do it again if I would help facilitate somebody else. I could even see, like, if I was dating somebody that really was into it and having that happen to herself, I would happily orchestrate one. It would be less abusive slash aggressive, I guess. But the white van is a really nice touch, so I enjoy that.

[A]

Did your partner look at you and look at what an amazing time she had and say, well, while we have this white van.

[B]

No, that wasn't discussed actually, but she might probably be into that. This is a lover who lives in Holland, so we only see each other like two or three times a year, tops. She would probably also enjoy that, actually. Yeah. Who knows?

[A]

Okay. I'm sure people are going to have questions about, okay, there's some place in Holland where hot, kinky straight people go and have like, take over a forest full of bungalows and have crazy kinky experiences. Is this a place that people can know about? Is this a private organization?

[B]

I've actually been told by the organizers too. Like, this is super under wraps, which is like, it's big. It was like over 100 people, but it's invite only. I guess I only got to hear about it through this Dutch lover that I met. You won't, like, you can search the name online. You won't find it because I told my ex wife I was going to this event. It's called such and so. And she immediately went Googling. She's like, that event doesn't exist. I'm like, I know.

[A]

Okay. But it's not a sinister secret. It's not like the.

[B]

No, it's just a super. I think their bar is really high, and it showed, like, the quality of people was phenomenal.

[A]

Okay. And I guess that's it. Thank you so much, Tom, for coming on.

[B]

My pleasure.

[A]

And sharing your story. One last question. Would you ever want to be the victim of the kidnapping if there was another CNC kidnapping scene? Or you just want to be the kidnapper? You're a kidnapping top.

[B]

I think I lean more dominance. Typically. Yeah. Yeah. Although, interestingly, I guess if I had to be kidnapped, it would have to be by a bunch of dudes. But if as soon as there's women, then I would want to be dominant. That's a whole other topic.

[A]

All right, Tom, thank you so much for coming on After Action Report.

[B]

My pleasure. Thank you.

[A]

Thank you, Tom. I'm very glad and very relieved to hear that it all went so well for you and your willing captive. Turning fear into a cathartic erotic experience. I'm here for it. Also been there, done that. Maybe I should be a guest on a future installment of Africa After Action Report that somebody else gets to host. If you have a story that you're brave enough to tell, write your pitch and send it to us at Q at Savage Love. And maybe you will be our next guest or maybe our next host here on After Action Report. After Action Report.