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- [00:00]
Dan Savage
You're listening to the Savage Lovecast, Dan Savage's sex and relationship show for grown ups. If you're under 18, get out of here, youngin.
- [00:09]
If you're stuck in a relationship quandary, or if you're looking for sexual harmony, well, there's nothing you can't ask
- [00:23]
Dr. Rachel Gelman
on the Savage Lovecast.
- [00:27]
Dan Savage
I'm reading an interesting study right now about something that's come up on the show. The connection, if any, between traumatic sexual experiences early in life and an interest later in life in kink. If it were a normal week around here, I might have talked about it at the top of the show. I mean, I kind of am talking about it right now at the top of the show. What I mean is I would have talked about this study at greater length at the top of the show, barring a breaking sex scandal about GOP dudes with huge balloon boobs or dick pics sending congressional staff harassing Democratic creeps. But I gotta be brief this week as I am on the road. But I will definitely talk about this study another time. Might invite the authors to come on the show and talk with me if you're interested in reading it. In the meantime, look for childhood sexual abuse, adult attachment styles and involvement in BDSM practices and adult intimate relationships. Lead author Maga Selleck published in Behavioral Sciences and yes, we will put a link in the show notes Anyway, instead of a full blown intro this week, you're going to get a plug for an event that I am doing. I'm very excited about this. I should have told you about it weeks ago, hell, months ago so you would have more notice in case you wanted to join me in New York City at Sessions Live May 15th and 16th at Pioneer Works in Brooklyn. Sessions Live is Esther Perel's big annual training conference for mental health professionals, relationship experts and as Esther puts it all curious minds. You, you don't have to be a pro to go to Sessions Live and get so much out of it. You just have to be interested, as I think we all are. At least all listeners of my show are in human relationships. The theme for Sessions Live this year, cultivating aliveness, desire and its disruptions. Big names in psychotherapy and psychology and sexology will be speaking Alexandra Solomon, Malika Bomick, Zach Taylor and some names that will be familiar to Savage Lovecast listeners, like sex researcher Justin Leigh Miller and LGBTQ family advocate Diana Adams. There will be Shibari artists and sound artists at Sessions Live and one sex advice columnist and podcaster who will be struggling all weekend with a really bad case of imposter syndrome. It's especially exciting and real honor to be invited to appear at Sessions Live this year as 2026 marks the 20th anniversary of the publication of Esther Perel's amazing book about sex and long term relationships, Mating in Captivity, the book I've been talking about and citing and recommending on this show since this show launched roughly 20 years ago now. I haven't done a live event in a while. The pandemic put my introversion into overdrive. Basically, only Esther Perel an invite from Esther Perel could get me out of my podcasting hidey hole and all the way to New York City. So if you never got to see me Live if, say, you missed our live Christmas lovecast extravaganza in Seattle, where I literally restaged the Crucifixion at Christmas in a bid to get people to stop trying to make Christmas sexy and embrace Easter as the horny Christian holiday. Now is your chance to see me and a bunch of other amazing people live. Quick digression, quick point of order, quick point of personal privilege. Easter is so much sexier than Christmas. This has nothing to do with Sessions Live or anything else, but I gotta get it off my chest again. Easter's got Roman soldiers, bondage impact play, dramatic confrontations at dinner parties. If you like Real Housewives, you are going to love the Last Supper. And Easter's also got death, which is not how anyone wants their Friday night play date to end. But turns out only a flesh wound Jesus gets better, so no harm, no foul. Christmas, on the other hand, what's Christmas got an underage girl carrying the child of a much older and much more powerful man to term under circumstances where her consent could not be granted in any meaningful sense. Ew. Black Christmas is gross. Easter. Easter is hot. Anyway, back to Sessions Live. If you are in New York City May 15th and 16th and you can get to New York City, you can come see me live. And much more impressively, you can come see Esther Perel live and Justin Leh Miller and Katie Bird and Justin Garcia and Ruth Cohn. All of us in conversation with each other and with Esther Perel. The full rundown, all the speakers, all the sessions, all the events can be found at sessionslive2026esterperrell.com in person. Tickets for the full two days of events, which include lunch on both days, are $895 lunch in Red Hood, Brooklyn. That'll set you back about $300. So it's kind of a steal virtual tickets. Streaming tickets are available for $175, but I can get you a deal. You can get $100 off in person tickets by using the code Savage100 or $50 off virtual tickets by using the code Savage50 when you buy your tickets at sessionslive2026estherperrell.com it's going to be an amazing weekend there in person, if you can. All right, coming up on this week's show, a unicorn had her boundaries violated and wonders how to tell the guy what she's feeling about that. Also, a man in a moldy house asks how to properly dry his fleshlight. We have two guests, count them, two guests on this week's show for you. On the Micro and Magnum pelvic floor specialist Dr. Rachel Gelman returns to offer some advice to a woman who lost sexual function, lost all feeling in her bits after falling off a trapeze. What she was doing on that trapeze will amaze you. It is a cautionary tale for us all. And on the Magnum, I chat with comedian Connor Janda about a problematic term once popular with boomer and Gen X homos. What do millennial and Gen Z gays that Connor Janda speaks for? What do they call that girl who only has gay friends and hangs out in gay bars? Not what we called them 30, 40 years ago. That's on the Magnum. If you want to hear my conversation with Connor Janda and get all the extras and perks that comes with being a magn. Become a Magnum sub right now. Become one of my subs right now at Savage Love. Subscribe all right, on to your first question.
- [06:34]
This episode of the Lovecast is brought to you by the good folks at Squarespace. They make it easy to build a beautiful website, blog or online store. Head on over to squarespace.com savage for a free trial and when you're ready to launch, use the offer Code savage to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.
- [06:52]
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- [07:19]
Caller 1 (Monogamy Question)
Hi Dan, my question is about etiquette. I know I've heard you talk before about the reasonable expectation of monogamy. Anyway, I'm seeing this guy and I like him But I've also been talking to other people and I feel like that's normal and should be expected. But I know I've talked to boys I've been dating in the past and mentioned other boys and, and they've acted like, appalled. And it's like, okay, like, if you're on the apps, it's not like you only can talk to one person at a time, right? You have to, like, spread your, you know, attention and then kind of cull the field and then keep doing that and then hopefully you wind up with maybe somebody that you want to be one on one. But it just seems like an unrealistic expectation. So, like, at what point are they entitled to think that it's, you know, like a monogamous situation? I don't know. Can you please help me understand? Thank you.
- [08:29]
Dan Savage
Oh my God. Has the monogamous insanity as the micro cheating, micro infidelity horseshit reached into chit chatting with people you haven't met yet on dating apps? That seems to be what your question is. If you're talking to somebody on a dating app, is it reasonable for them to expect that you are only talking to them? No, of course not. It is entirely unreasonable for somebody chit chatting with a stranger whose photos they liked that they saw on a dating app to think that they're the only one in the world that this person is talking to, that you are having a monogamous exchange of text messages or DMS with a complete stranger, someone you haven't met yet. Yeah, that is unreasonable. Monogamy is, for now, probably forever, for always, at least for straight people, a reasonable expectation. I think it should be opt in like it is for gay people. I think it should be a conversation that a couple has. I think it should be an active choice and not a default setting. But fact is, in straight relationships, when they get serious, monogamous is what people expect the relationship will be or is. And so if you aren't monogamous, if you have other partners, if you're poly, even on, if you're having a long exchange with somebody on a dating app, I do think that you have a duty to inform them that you are with other people or not monogamous because the danger is, or the thing you want to avoid doing is leveraging someone else's reasonable expectations to your advantage when it comes to dating. So if somebody, some guy gets on a regular dating app and he happens to have a wife and he doesn't disclose that other people, women who may find his ad may be interested in him and may make the investment of time and effort and energy and chatting with him and swapping pictures and messages and meeting up with him. They may have the entirely reasonable expectation that that man is single, because most men engaged in that kinds of behavior are single. And he would that guy, our hypothetical guy, if he were married to somebody else, he would be leveraging these other women's reasonable expectations to his advantage and winning the time, attention, affection, and maybe get the pussy of women who wouldn't give it to him otherwise if they'd known. Which incentivizes, for some men, not telling. Which is why that's a shitty thing to do. It's a shitty thing to leverage other people's reasonable expectations to your advantage, and people shouldn't do that. That's not your question. Your question is you have to be monogamous to somebody you just met on a dating app. And the answer to that is no. No. It's a normal thing for you to be talking to more than one person, chatting with more than one person, even dating more than one person, a normal thing to do. It's also normal for a person not to want to be reminded that the person they just started seeing or dating is talking to or perhaps dating other people or might be or is actually doing it, and you proactively disclosing that to someone. You're not the only person I'm talking to. That's unnecessary because they shouldn't assume they're the only person that you're talking to. And if you proactively offer that up, it kind of signals bad judgment. You should know, and they can know, and they should just assume that you're talking to more than one person, and you should know that no one wants to be reminded of that fact, necessarily. And it would be unnecessary for you to go out of your way to remind them of something that they should know, should assume, but probably don't want to think about. And in a relationship, if you've reached the dating and fucking and dinner and sleepover stage and you haven't had the conversation about being exclusive and there are other people, a time may come where you have a DTR conversation, somebody's going to initiate to define the relationship conversation, and you may need to disclose that you're dating other people at that point, but you don't need to proactively disclose that in advance, necessarily. Another thing that people may not want to be reminded of, because even though they should assume that someone that they're seeing casually is seeing them casually, if that person only has eyes for you and you are still thinking about it, still playing the field, still comparing and contrasting them with other potential mates, you telling them before they've asked or you've had the DTR conversation. And even in the DTR conversation, you don't necessarily have to disclose that you've dated other people in the three months or four months before you had the DTR conversation. You can have the DTR conversation and if they want to be exclusive, you can agree to exclusivity and then end your situationships with other people that you were seeing and not necessarily have to tell them about it until after the wedding. I think I covered all the bases there. Good luck.
- [13:39]
Caller 1 (Monogamy Question)
Hi Dan, I have a flashlight and I think it's good fun, but I'm finding I'm not using it as much as I would like to because of the cleaning problem, or in specific the drying problem. It's pretty easy to rinse out in the shower and wash it out there, so that's not really my issue. My issue is letting it dry because I live in an apartment that stuff doesn't dry. I have a mildew problem in some rooms and it is not conducive to drying things like microbiologically. Ideally, a flashlight would be like left on a clothesline or windowsill where it gets sunlight, lots of air, dries out quickly and can just be left there and picked up. For example, the Hitachi Magic Wand in my house lives next to the bed and remains plugged in. And I'm just wishing the flashlight could be that convenient, but it's not. And I was wondering what other people who use flashlights do to let them dry out so it's not sitting somewhere drying out for days or scrubbing a silicon out with a towel paint mistakenly, which is frankly not worth the time. And I'd just rather use my hand than have to do that every time.
- [14:47]
Dan Savage
I think your bigger worry, the thing you should really be more concerned about is that you live in a moldy, mildewy house or an apartment. Dude, get out. Get out before the spores get you. Before you get last of us by whatever's growing, the black mold that's growing on your walls or in your shower. As for your Fleshlight, huh? I went to Fleshlight's website and they sell little racks that you can hang the interior sleeve that you remove from your Fleshlight, the soft squishy silicone part that feels good against your dick, the thing that you fuck, you can remove that. And they have these little basically cutie pie, little fleshlight hangery things. So you can hang your Fleshlight in a dry place, maybe not your bathroom, maybe there's a dry place somewhere in your house you can hang the sleeve to dry between uses. But my God, like I can think of a MacGyver solution for this that's really simple and I'm surprised it hasn't occurred to you already. Do you own a hair dryer? If you don't, you can get one for like 15 bucks. And there is a room temperature or cool air setting on most hair dryers and you can point one end of it at the larger end, the business end of your Fleshlight, and blow cool air through your Fleshlight to completely dry it out. And actually I thought of that before I went to Fleshlight's website and read all about care and cleaning of flashlights and they're now selling a little fake ersatz basically hair dryer. They are selling a product for someone in your particular situation to dry your particular well loved, well used, often blown in Fleshlights interior sleeve, which is just a little air circulator. But you don't need to bow down to big pocket pussies capitalistic efforts to exploit you in your predicament. You can just use the hairdryer that you may or most likely already have and dry out your flashlight and then you can pack your bags and move out of your moldy, mildewy apartment before the black mold crawling up your walls crawls up your ass. Dude, dude. That's your bigger problem, not your damp Fleshlight, your damp apartment.
- [17:19]
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- [18:35]
Caller 2 (Trapeze Injury)
Hi Dan, I am a 35 year old lesbian living in the Pacific Northwest. When I was 20 I fell off a trapeze directly onto my ass and I would not recommend that. Over the decade or so I have dealt with the leg pain and the butt pain, but what remains is some is sexual dysfunction. Ever since the accident, I have not been able to orgasm easily. As I get older it is getting worse and worse and harder and harder. Things I have tried include pt, pelvic pt, massage. I have gotten lidocaine injections in my butt. But it is really hard to get a doctor to be concerned about or to address the sexual dysfunction things feel. My clitoris feels numb, my labiad feels numb and I am kind of out of ideas of what else to do. I have another appointment with a pelvic floor physical therapist. This will be the third one that I've seen and I am just calling to see if you, a medical guest or your listeners have literally any other ideas for what I could try. If there's any sensitizing creams or somebody has a miracle PT move that they did. It would just be so good to be able to come easily again.
- [19:59]
Dan Savage
Joining me to help tackle this question, my go to expert on all things pelvic floor, Dr. Rachel Gelman, owner of Pelvic Wellness and Physical Therapy in San Francisco. She's been working with and helping patients for more than a decade and she is a regular guest here on The Savage Lovecast. Dr. Gelman, thank you for coming back.
- [20:14]
Dr. Rachel Gelman
Thank you so much and as always you can call me Rachel. Dan.
- [20:17]
Dan Savage
Thank you Rachel. She's the caller. She's been to one pelvic floor specialist, she's about to see another. I've gotten a third online to help give her some advice. Obviously our go to advice here see a pelvic floor specialist has already been taken. Have you heard of a case like this? Is there a Hail Mary pass? Is there a miracle out there that she just hasn't found out about yet? Where is her Lord's? Where's her pilgrimage site?
- [20:42]
Dr. Rachel Gelman
Yeah, I wish, you know. So first of all, I think it's great she's seen another pelvic floor PT and I have seen this before.
- [20:49]
Dan Savage
You've seen somebody fall so hard on her ass that her labia and clitoris were numb for 15 years. You've seen that before.
- [20:57]
Dr. Rachel Gelman
I've seen maybe not exactly 15 years, but I've seen people who've had some sort of trauma, a fall, an injury, maybe they gave birth, something happened, and now they have numbness, whether it's in their clitoris, their labia, their vagina, their penis, and they have some sort of sexual dysfunction. So it's. She's not alone in that experience. And that means she's also not alone in having doctors who aren't listening and you're kind of dismissing, which I think is such bullshit. And it makes me very angry on behalf of this patient that she's having to deal with that. But that on the flip side, there, unfortunately there is not going to be like a Hail Mary per se, but I think there are a lot of that she could look into to help figure out what's going on and treat it. Because there are a lot of sexual health specialists out there. So my first recommendation is like, definitely to see this other pelvic floor specialist because, you know, we all have different ways we go about treating. We have different approaches. And given the nature of her injury, I'd be curious if people have actually looked at like her tailbone as well as her sacrum, because that is where the nerves exit out of that part of the body and they travel to the area of her numbness. So the clitoris, the labia. So I'd be wondering, like, is there some sort of restriction going on internally or externally that's impairing mobility of the nerves as well as looking at the muscles that attach there. But I would also be encouraging her to try to find. There's a couple different websites I hope you'll link to, but one is the International Society for the Study of Women's Sexual Health. And that would be a great resource for her to go and try to find a doctor who could maybe do some more imaging and talk to her about some other options to hopefully address what's going on.
- [22:52]
Dan Savage
I just want to pause here to acknowledge the people out there who believe in creationism and intelligent design. Just the fact that the nerves that go directly to our junk, to the labia, the clitoris, the penis, and exit out our tailbone, which just seems to make them so vulnerable to a fall on your ass injury, damaging, denting, impairing those nerves, and yet more evidence that there is no intelligent designer, because no intelligent designer would do that to us.
- [23:24]
Dr. Rachel Gelman
They're a little higher than the tailbone, but because the tailbone is so closely attached to the sacrum, it's like such an interconnected area. And it's such a small area, and there's so many different pieces to the puzzle that I would need to ask this person so many more questions to be able to give her, you know, a really good, solid recommendation. But I'd be wanting to look. First thing I'd be thinking is, like, what does her tailbone feel like? What's going on at the sacrum? What's going on with those sacral nerves? Which. The running joke to remember these nerves was always s 2, 3, 4. Keeps the penis off the floor. These muscle or these nerves go to the clitoris and the penis. So whenever I hear numbness dysfunction at the clitoris, my. My mind goes to those nerves. But that's where I'm like, having her find some sort of physician, sexual medicine specialist who can look really at the nerves there and determine, like, does she need. I mean, she had the lidocaine injections, but there's so many other interventions I could think of that might be beneficial. I don't know if there's a nerve that's like, literally being impinged and someone needs to go in and, like, dissect it out so it has more room
- [24:33]
Dan Savage
to move, so she may need surgery.
- [24:37]
Dr. Rachel Gelman
I mean, I don't know. But I would just be thinking like, hey, I don't. I mean, as a pt, my brain is never. We want to try to avoid surgery, But I would just be thinking like, hey, what else could be going on? If you've explored these more conservative approaches, like PT and you're not seeing improvement? That's when I think, like, okay, we need to move on to looking at other interventions. Is that a medication we do? You know, there's tons of different medications out there that might be able to help. Does she need a different type of injection? You know, lidocaine, great. But, like, is there something else that needs to be done? You know, then we move into, like, surgery being the last resort. But that's kind of what I think about when I hear numbness. I'm thinking like, well, is a nerve impinged somewhere? And someone needs to go in and get that nerve moving.
- [25:24]
Dan Savage
So let's talk quickly about doctors who don't take questions around sexual pleasure seriously. I assume the caller is so well spoken. I assume she's been a good advocate for herself in these doctor's offices and encountered doctors who were disappointing. But I've often talked to a lot of people who tried to raise an issue around sexual health, sexual pleasure, and the doctor was just like, awkward or a Little negative. And the person relating the story to me would say they just shut down, that they just picked up on the sex negativity or the discomfort or the shame, and they couldn't advocate for themselves. They couldn't grab the doctor by the figurative shoulders and shake them and say, you have to take this seriously. What should you do? How can you best advocate for yourself in the moment? Because we hear about sex, negative sex, shaming, doctors all the time. What would your advice be to this call or anybody else out there who's raising an issue around sexual pleasure, sexual health, sexual function, and the doctor treats it as not important or not worthy of his or her time? How do you confront that as a patient?
- [26:37]
Dr. Rachel Gelman
Yeah, it's hard. It's really hard. Because I agree. I think there is something when you're in that kind of dynamic, which is a little bit of a power dynamic. Right. Like, it becomes really hard to advocate when the person in charge, per se, is being like, well, that's not something I can help you with. Or there's dismissiveness. You know, I've experienced it when I've been a patient, having to, you know, it's very hard to advocate, even for myself, even though I'm in this space. So I get it, and I think it's really hard to do. I think, you know, my recommendation, which I know can't be done by everyone because there is a privilege to it, is trying to bring another person with you to the appointments. Because I do think having another person present to help advocate for you, but, you know, obviously that's not possible for everyone. So even having someone on the phone, phone, like, while you're in the office, I think is another option of having this, like, third person who can speak up and be like, hey, wait a minute, like, she's saying this. This is important.
- [27:35]
Dan Savage
Bulldozing her. You need to listen. This matters.
- [27:39]
Dr. Rachel Gelman
Yeah, but recognize, you know, I think at the end of the day, like, trying your best to, like, say, if you have to be alone, saying, like, I want this documented that I requested help, and you're saying you can't help me or you won't help me. And also know, even though there are doctors who may behave this way, which, again, it makes me so upset when I hear this. There are so many of us who are here to help. And so, you know, try to not get discouraged, even though it's really, really challenging, and just know that you can find someone out there who is able to help. They may, you know, you may have to do a virtual or A phone call with them. But we do exist and we do want to help you. So just keep that in mind, you know, because I do think it's hard, and I think you just have to try your best, and I think trying to have a buddy who can go with you, but at the end of the day saying to them, like, hey, I. I'm telling you this. I want it documented that I've communicated this concern and you're telling me no, or you're saying, that's not a thing.
- [28:46]
Dan Savage
Whatever it is, it's really shitty to be shamed or shut down by an authority figure like a doctor. It happened to me once when I was a teenager. I kept going to my pediatrician. It was the 80s. Friends were dying, and every bump, everything. I kept going to my pediatrician. And he finally. And I was still seeing a pediatrician. That's how long ago it was. And he asked me, what's going on? Why are you here? And I looked at him and he's one of the first people I came out to. And I was like, I'm gay and I don't want to die. And he looked at me and said, don't be gay. And, like, it was really hard for me to. The next time I had to talk to a doctor.
- [29:20]
Dr. Rachel Gelman
Yeah.
- [29:22]
Dan Savage
About something related to my health and my sexuality. It took me like, a decade to get over that. So I feel you when you talk about dealing with these sex shaming doctors.
- [29:34]
Dr. Rachel Gelman
Yeah.
- [29:35]
Dan Savage
And I'm sure Rachel's heart goes out to you. My heart goes out to you. You want to come easily again. And orgasms are getting harder and harder to achieve. And, man, we both want you to get the help that you deserve. And if there's any listeners out there who went through this who have the Hail Mary pass recommendations, please send them to us via text via Savage Love askdan. Any final thoughts for the caller? Except that we agree that don't go on a trapeze when you're recovering from a lesbian breakup. I think that's advice we can all get behind.
- [30:07]
Dr. Rachel Gelman
Yeah, I mean, I think, like I said, I would really encourage her to look at the International Society for Women's Sexual Health and see if she can find a sexual medicine provider either near her or. Like I said, so many of us know how hard it is to find someone locally. So even if you can do, like, a virtual or a phone consult, most of us all offer that. And we can always say, like, okay, you're located here. Let me see who I know there. So, like, we have a network and we really want to help people. So I think that's the biggest thing I would encourage is trying to reach out to someone because it sounds like, you know, she's doing pt, which is great. But I'd be curious having her see another type of specialist to kind of determine what else could be going on and some other ways to get her, you know, back to having the orgasm she wants and deserves.
- [31:00]
Dan Savage
Dr. Rachel Gelman, owner of Pelvic Wellness and Physical Therapy and sf thank you so much for joining us today and helping this caller out. Really appreciate you sharing your expertise and wisdom with my listeners so generously, of course.
- [31:13]
Dr. Rachel Gelman
Anytime.
- [31:14]
Dan Savage
This episode is brought to you by Helix Sleep. True story. We sometimes have very special guest stars at our place. Both of our boyfriends are very special guest stars who became series regulars before becoming co stars. Anyway, a new very special guest star who is also a listener came down the other day. I was already in the kitchen and looked at me and said oh my God. Everything you say on your show about your mattresses is true. Yeah, it is true. Helix Sleep makes the best mattresses. We love our Helix mattresses. We have them in every bedroom of our house. We love our Helix mattresses almost as much or maybe even a little more than we love our guest stars. With Helix, you take a sleep quiz that makes buying a mattress easy. It matches you with the perfect mattress based on your personal preferences and sleep needs. We have the Midnight Lux so much, as does my husband, as do our very special guest stars. Helix delivers your mattress right to your door with free shipping in the US and they offer seamless returns and exchanges. The Happy with Helix guarantee offers a risk free customer first experience designed to ensure you are completely satisfied with your new mattress and you will be just like our very special guest star was. They also offer a 120 night sleep trial and limited lifetime warranty. And get this just for you, just for my listeners, right now you get 20% off site wide. Now is the time to invest in your coziness and impress your next very special guest star. Go to helixsleep.com savage for 20% off site wide. Make sure you enter Savage Lovecast into the post purchase survey so they know that we sent you again. Helix sleep.com savage 20% off right now sitewide.
- [33:09]
Caller 3 (Consent Violation)
Hi Dan, I'm a 42 year old pansexual intersex woman from Nevada. I have a difficult question about consent and sexual assault. I've looked all over the Internet to find suggestions for what to say to someone who violated your Consent if you're trying to talk to them about it. So we can assume they're receptive and remorseful, etc. Etc. But most of what the Internet provides is how to talk to or survive, not a perpetrator. I've been dating a married couple for a couple of months. They hope to find a unicorn for a third. And guess what? It me they have been exquisite. They understand why I'm cautious about opening up to them because I have a history of persecution and assault. But this couple takes their time with me. Whenever they want to try something, they ask first. And even when in the middle of it, they ask, is this okay? Are you sure? It's honestly been a healing experience. The one thing I told them multiple times is forever off limits is anal player penetration. Recently, I was playing with the husband alone. Oh, we were trying new things as usual. We clarified my hard limit, but plays fine. As long as it's the hills, not the valleys, you know? Except then we're playing and guess what? He poked my asshole with his dick and asked if that was okay. I went home and texted him the next day. He was remorseful, but was he? Because he said I stopped when you said to stop. I'm furious at that response because I told him no from the beginning. Told him no over multiple conversations. Told him no in that exact social encounter. I'm meeting with him to talk in a very public place with lots of people, cameras and security. I've thought a lot about what to say to him, but I feel kind of helpless. I really only see two options. Either he can admit he did know better and tried anyway, or he can say he didn't understand and reveal he has terrible judgment regarding boundaries and consent. Either way, the answer is that I don't and cannot trust him today. But can I ever trust him again? What should I say to him? And what could he possibly say to me to indicate this is worth working through?
- [35:12]
Dan Savage
So before this one, on one session with the husband from this couple, you clarified your hard limits. No butt stuff. Well, not entirely. No butt stuff. You said cheeks are fine. I think you said the hills are okay, just not the valley. So if he wants to touch your cheeks or touch your butt, he can touch your butt, but he can't go anywhere near your hole. And you clarified that to him and that this was a hard limit. And then I listened to this over and over again because I couldn't quite understand what you said. He either poked your asshole with his dick or probed your asshole with his dick, but he got near your butthole in what I assume was a perpendicular way. Or got his dick into your ass crack and violated your hard limit, violated your consent, ignored your boundary. But he asked. He asked again. Sounds like he asked before penetration, but yeah, it wasn't okay of him to ask under those circumstances. In that moment, you had already said no. He shouldn't have put you in a position where you felt pressured. Not the pressure of his dick poking your asshole, but pressured maybe not to ruin the vibe. And sometimes that's why a person might consent in the moment to something they told the person they're having sex with they weren't into or up for. They specifically said they didn't want. And then, you know, things are happening and it's hot and both people are enjoying themselves. And then the person who was told whatever it was, know about whatever it was, will ask again. And they know, when they ask again, they know that they're putting you on the spot. And you're going to feel pressured not to ruin the vibe by reiterating your no. And so maybe they'll get a yes this time, which is why someone asks again in the moment like that. And it's not okay. It's really not okay. People should not fucking do that. The only person who should be able to put something on the menu that was specifically removed from the menu is the person who specifically removed that thing from the menu. The only person who should be able to ask, hey, do you want the frog legs? Is the person who told you, we're not having frog legs, and that wasn't him. Caller, you say that he has terrible judgment regarding boundaries and consent. You say, I cannot trust him again. And then your question for me is, how can I trust him again or can I trust him again? Listen to your gut. Why have coffee with this person in a public place with cameras present? Like, if you feel like you need other people around and security cam footage that could be subpoenaed, you obviously don't feel safe with this person. You're saying that you are worried that this person, even in a public place, even with other people around, might. Might sexually assault you again or attempt to, which is why you need the backup, the belts of the other people present and the suspenders of the security cam footage. Yeah. Don't meet up for coffee with this guy. Don't let him wheedle his way back into your affections or back into your bed. If this is how you feel. You need people around, you need security camera footage. You don't feel safe with him. He shat the fucking bed in a way that it cannot be unshat. And that's all you have to communicate to him. Look. And you can do that via text. You can just say, look, that was not okay. I don't feel safe with you anymore and I don't want to see you again. And then he'll have to. Hopefully now he'll have to. But hopefully he will realize that the behavior that he engaged in cost him something that he enjoyed and valued. The sex he was having with you, the connection that he had with you, that's gone. Because he, in the moment, had to do the shitty thing and ask again, ask for the frog legs to be put back on the fucking menu. And he shouldn't have done that. And maybe you refusing to ever see him again will help him understand just how shitty a thing that was for him to do. Oh, yeah, he needs to get that through his thick skull. And you need to listen to yourself. Listen to yourself when you say he has terrible judgment regarding boundaries and consent and you cannot trust him without me telling you that you said that. You are telling you that. So you should not be meeting up with him again in public or anywhere else. This episode of the Savage Lovecast is brought to you by Soaking Wet by VB Health. Your vagina works hard and you should reward her with the gift of juicy joy. Soaking Wet is packed with the good stuff. It has probiotics, prebiotics, and the kind of vitamins that are beneficial for vaginas. 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- [41:17]
Caller 4 (Sexless Marriage)
Hi Dan, Nancy and the tech savvy youth. This is a straight male, late 50s, in a fairly sexless marriage. We've been together for nearly 38 years through thick and thin and all sorts of lovely and horrible things. But my spouse is a survivor of childhood sexual abuse and that combined with a medical condition and now menopause sexual intimacy is really infrequent and particularly PIV is difficult for her. Not that we limit ourselves to PIV as sex. She rarely feels an urge and often says sex is never really on her mind. We go many months without sexual intimacy, let alone just a passionate kiss. But I love her deeply, dearly, and absolutely forever. Yet I'm lonely for sexual intimacy. This is not new. Our relationship has had this dynamic for a very long time. And there have been many times in my past I sought out extramarital sexual companionship, but could never quite follow through other than a couple kisses. We have each been through therapy and been through couples therapy, but I'm. I'm just done with that. Our three beautiful kids have moved on now and I have more time now, but I'm not getting any younger. My spouse means well, but she is fairly conservative when it comes to sexual relationships. She grew up in a very conservative Christian family and I'm challenged and somewhat fearful to suggest an ethical, non monogamous relationship or alternative. Am I stuck wishing that I had the balls or ovaries to grow old with a polyamorous marriage? Or do I just risk losing this one person whom I love more than anything else?
- [43:18]
Dan Savage
There are lots of stages in a relationship where two people might not be on the same page at the same time. One person's ready to say I love you, the other person isn't quite there yet. One person's ready to move in, the other person isn't quite to cohabitation yet. One person's ready to get married, the other isn't ready to propose. One person's ready to have kids, the other isn't ready yet or not sure they'll ever be ready to have kids. And we have scripts basically for what to do in all of those circumstances, which is essentially wait. You're ready to say I love you, they're not. Give it time, don't give it the rest of your life. You're ready to say I love you. They're never ready to say it back, ever. Yeah, you give that maybe six months, maybe a year on the outside, on the far outside. And if they're not there yet, you end the relationship and you go find somebody that you can fall in love with who can say I love you back. Same with moving in, same with getting married. Same with having kids. Not on the same page about having kids. If kids are absolutely crucial to you, you give that person time to come to a decision. And when they come to a decision, you get to make your Move. And if they don't want kids and you do, well, you end that relationship after having given them some time. I wish we had a better script for that situation. A lot of couples find themselves in after 25, 30, 35, your case, almost 38 years. We are not on the same page about sex anymore. You're still interested in being intimate, being sexual. You would ideally like to be intimate and sexual with your wife. And she's done with sex. She's got a complicated history with sex. She's a survivor of sexual abuse. She's from a conservative family. And now menopause has tanked what little libido she may have had or may have been able to salvage out from under all of that in the first place. And she is done. And this is the one, perhaps circumstance in a relationship where you can't just give it time. That's not going to change. Your wife in six months or a year isn't going to become not a survivor of sexual abuse or someone not from a family that was very conservative and up about sex and passed that conservative up about sexedness onto her. And she's not going to exit menopause. And so this is unlikely to change with the passage of time. So you're going to have to accept that your sex life is over too, because it's over for her, because she's done, you're done. Or you're gonna have to do what you need to do in order to stay married and stay sane. I really have been getting a lot of pushback lately from listeners about me being too quick to tell someone to do what they need to do in order to stay married and stay sane. But I think this is yours is an example where that is. Cheating is maybe the least worst option for all involved. Going to your wife and asking for permission to get sex elsewhere to seek sex outside the relationship, which will eat time and money and emotional energy that your wife may worry about being asked to spare and will introduce risk into your relationship. You know, you're in your 50s, you're not dead, you're not that old. You could, if you got out there and began to meet women and did what I think straight men of your age of all ages need to do to make women feel safe being intimate and sexual with them, which is make a certain emotional investment in them. There's a risk there for your wife that she may not be comfortable with because if you're seeking sex without paying for it, you will be having a relationship or relationships with other women and going to Your wife and survivor sexual abuse, shitty family in menopause, probably already feels terrible about being done with sex and the problems that's introduced into your relationship or into her marriage. And you going to her and saying, okay, I would like permission could make her feel even worse about something she probably already feels terrible about, but can manage if it's not front of mind to put out of her mind. And you coming to her and saying, I would like to have an open relationship, I want to do the ethically non monogamous thing here and have your permission. Yeah, she's going to feel terrible about that. And then she may be worried or paranoid or upset every time you're out of her sight and she doesn't know where the you are because that could mean you're off having coffee with some other woman who might want to fuck the shit out of you. Really does sound like you love your wife. You could be a good candidate for your sex life is over two and you get to explore solo sex for the next 25, 35 years until your actuarial table gets flipped. But you know, I'm past my 50s, I wouldn't have taken that advice in my mid-50s. Sex was then and still is very important to me. And I just can't cavalierly tells somebody else that their sex life is or should be over because their partner is done. So yeah, everybody knows where I'm gonna land here. Do what you need to do in order to stay married and stay sane. I think you should think about if you can swing it, paying for it, finding a sex worker that you like and respect and becoming a regular, good and trusted client. People do have relationships with sex workers where there's trust, safety and eventually a history. And yeah, you are paying for it as a transactional relationship. But think of all the people out there who's who are close friends with their lawyers or their accountants or other people that have come into their orbit because they were meeting a need, providing a professional service. So if you don't want to risk the emotional entanglement that might come with having to make the emotional investment in another woman so she's comfortable being sexual with you, a woman you aren't hiring. You might want to think about something a little more transactional. You might want to think about hiring a pro. Could be less complicated for you, less complicating, less draining, not just of your balls, but of your time and emotional energy. But it would present perhaps less of a risk to your wife. Not that your wife, I think, needs to know about it. Sometimes sparing is caring, and I think this is one of those times. All right, time for listener feedback. First up, a few comments listeners left in the comment thread about last week's show says bgn Guess I'm not really into dom sub play because I just couldn't understand why the woman with two doms didn't just lie about when she came last. I'll play along with the DS stuff in the moment and I will say whatever someone wants to hear on the phone. But at the end of the session, cops and Robbers is over. Dave D. Cawley also had some advice for the caller with two doms giving her conflicting orders. Level this up, get them in contact with each other and they can periodically conspire to destroy. You just pretend to stray, of course, by giving you conflicting directives. Then you have the dilemma of which one you are going to disobey and having to choose between preset punishments. Or they don't give you notice of what the punishment is, but then decide together what the punishment will be after you've disobeyed one of them. I love this idea, Dave, but hey, not all dommes like to team up on a sub. If the caller is lucky, hers will jump at this. But some doms are vampires who like to hunt alone, says Melissa, longtime listener over 15 years who usually agrees with nearly everything Dan says. But I had to jump into the comment thread this week for the first time because I completely disagree with Dan's take on the lesbian and the cologne. I don't think it's weird at all for her to go to the other kid's dad and ask him what he's wearing. Why do people insist on making things weird? If I was her, melissa goes on, I would just say to him, hey, what cologne do you use? It smells great and I would love to get it for my wife as a gift. The whole for my wife as a gift thing should clear up any issues or worries that she has about him thinking she's hitting on him. And if he still thinks she's hitting on him after that, then that's his problem. All right, thank you, Melissa. Thank you for jumping into the comments. And hey, you win your first comment. And I am reading it here on the Savage Lovecast. And on top of that, conceding the point to you, you are right, I am wrong. If you've got something to say about something I said on this week's show and you want to make sure you're heard like Melissa was just heard, go to Savage Love and jump into the comment thread. We do play a few comment calls at the end of every episode, but we can't play them all. So something you gotta get off your chest. Say it in the comments. And now, Savage love listeners who left voicemails on our answering machine about last week's show. A few of them get to have the last word on this week's show. Hi Dan, I loved yours and Doc Chocolate's answer on the porn scene STI situation. And I just wanted to add that it's important not to start blaming if an STI or when an STI happens. It is still a risk and it's better to prepare and realize that an STI is almost certainly going to happen. If you're not monogamous, prepare for it now and don't blame when you blame and make it a big terrible thing. People are more likely to avoid testing or delay testing and just try and ignore symptoms and that causes an increase
- [53:32]
Caller 1 (Monogamy Question)
in the risk of STIs.
- [53:35]
Dan Savage
Recognize that it's just like getting a cold. It's probably going to happen. Take precautions and get treatment quickly.
- [53:44]
Dr. Rachel Gelman
Hey Dan. Okay, I have been screaming while you were answering the question from the woman who is one year postpartum and her libido has not returned. I thought your response was very compassionate and very kind, but was obviously coming from a man. Because what I wanted to say to this woman is, are you breastfeeding? When you breastfeed, your body produces prolactin. Prolactin encourages the production of progesterone, and progesterone is the hormone that kills your libido and makes you feel like an ugly troll under a bridge and makes
- [54:21]
Caller 2 (Trapeze Injury)
you not want to have sex at all.
- [54:23]
Dr. Rachel Gelman
What I want to say to this woman, as someone who is herself me right now, 11 months postpartum, is when you stop breastfeeding, your progesterone will drop,
- [54:35]
Caller 2 (Trapeze Injury)
your prolactin will drop, and your libido will return.
- [54:38]
Dr. Rachel Gelman
I promise.
- [54:39]
Caller 2 (Trapeze Injury)
Babe, if you're breastfeeding, it's time to stop.
- [54:42]
Dr. Rachel Gelman
Stop breastfeeding. Your baby is healthy. Drop that prolactin. Drop that progesterone. Your estrogen will spike and you will be ready to jump on it.
- [54:53]
Listener Commenter (Fragrance Comment)
This is for the woman in episode 1015 who's noticing another parent's fragrance at the daycare pickup. And I just want to offer that I don't think the man is wearing fragrance to the daycare pickup because he wants anyone who senses it to want to fuck him. That's not what fragrance is for. If fragrance people are just enjoying another lovely sensory experience and I almost guarantee you that if you notice it in a non sexual way, he'll appreciate the compliment and be happy to share what it is. Just like if an article of clothing that he was wearing and it's just way simpler than Dan is offering. It's not awkward at all. You just say hey, something smells really nice when I pass by you. Is that your fragrance? Can I ask what you're wearing? I'm curious about it. That's it, that's it. You introduced yourself. You make a new friend act like you're complimenting his outfit choice and want to know where he bought it. That's it.
- [55:51]
Dan Savage
And we are going to leave it there. Got a sex problem? Got a relationship question? Got a comment for us? Go to Savage Love Askdan to record and upload your question or your comment directly onto our website. Or you can send us a voicemail at Qavage Love. Or you can call us at 206-30-2064 and leave us a message on our answering machine. And hey, if you tried something new and you want to share all the dirty details with me and my listeners, send an email to Qavage Love. Let us know what you tried and you might be my next guest on After Action Report. Tired of the same old porn? Ready for something that actually leaves you wanting more? Porn that makes you think, makes you laugh and sometimes makes you hide behind the couch? Stream Hump, the best dirty little film festival in the world right now in the comfort of your own living room. Go to humpfilmfest.com for all the details and if you are in Nashville, White Center, Burlington, Baltimore or Brooklyn this weekend you can see Hump in a theater like God intended us to watch porn with Strangers in the dark. Go to humphilmfest.com right now for Showtime theater locations to watch the trailer and to get tickets to a screening or to strange extreme hump in your own home. Follow me at bluesky@dansavage, follow me on Instagram at Dan Savage, follow Connor Janda on Instagram at Conor Janda and check out Boys Club Comedy on Instagram and YouTube at Boys Club Comedy, the comedy series Connor created with his fellow stand up comic and best friend and previous Lovecast guest Nico Carney. The Savage Love cast is produced every week by Nancy Hartunian and me and Nancy and the tech savvy at Risk. We will all be back at you next week with an installment of the Savage Lovecast. Thank you for downloading. This episode of the Savage Lovecast is brought to you by Load Boost by VB Health. Load Boost is a supplement designed to improve the taste, the volume, and the overall health of your semen. If you're already putting in the work, why not make your performance unforgettable? Made in the usa, NSF certified and produced in an FDA registered facility. Thousands of guys across 50 states and 45 countries swear by loadboost if you want bigger finishes and better reviews from your audiences. If you want better taste, better mouthfeel, go to loadboost.com today and use code savage for 10% off. Or click the link in this week's episode description. That's loadboost.com and use offer Code Savage.