The Fraudulent Fashion Founder w/ Margaret Cho

Summary

Scam Goddess – "The Fraudulent Fashion Founder" w/ Margaret Cho

Podcast: Scam Goddess
Host: Laci Mosley
Guest: Margaret Cho
Date: March 17, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode of Scam Goddess dives into the jaw-dropping story of fashion tech founder Christine Hunsicker, dubbed the "Bernie Madoff of fashion." Host Laci Mosley and returning guest, comedy legend Margaret Cho, break down Hunsicker's meteoric rise and even more outrageous fall, exposing a $350 million scam that duped big-name investors and shook the retail tech world. The discussion weaves in personal scam stories, reflections on shame and belief in fraud, and why the modern world is a playground for con artists.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Scam Stories & Opening Banter

• Margaret Cho’s Recent Brush with a "Wrong Number" Text Scam

  • Margaret recounts mistakenly giving her number to a supposed celebrity in her DMs, only to be contacted by a scammer instead ([02:33-03:41]).
  • She reflects on how frequently she receives phishing texts—possibly because she was previously scammed when buying a cat online during the pandemic ([03:57-04:49]).
  • Quote:
    “I think I’m on a register where people are like, she’s an easy mark.”
    — Margaret Cho ([04:23])

• Laci’s Experience Investigating Scammers

  • Laci shares her attempts to engage phishing scammers to see what their "end game" is and notes their strategies for targeting lonely or vulnerable people ([05:33-06:35]).

Scam Tactics: Fear & Shame

• Scammers prey on people’s fear and shame, particularly around sextortion and personal information leaks ([08:23-09:59]).

• Quote:
  “One of the biggest currencies in scams is fear and shame. Especially because shame is like the next step of fear.”
  — Laci Mosley ([09:00])

• Margaret and Laci agree: refusing to let fear and shame take hold is key to scam resistance ([10:09]).

Main Scam Breakdown: Christine Hunsicker, Fashion Founder

Early Career Hustle

• Christine’s background: Pennsylvania upbringing, Princeton grad, field hockey player, medieval studies minor ([13:34-13:54]).
• Rose quickly in tech startups, including Right Media (sold to Yahoo for $850M in 2007) and Drop IO (sold to Facebook for $10M) ([14:23-15:14]).

Building Gwinnie Bee

• Founded Gwinnie Bee, a clothing rental subscription for women sizes 10–32, aiming to increase plus-size fashion accessibility ([16:28-17:45]).
• Positive take:
  Laci and Margaret highlight the real need for inclusive, convenient plus-size fashion, praising Gwinnie Bee’s original business model ([16:28-17:45]).
• Quote:
  “It’s hard to find plus sizes that are cute…this is a good idea.”
  — Margaret Cho ([17:21])

Into the Weeds: Tech Pivot & The Castle Scam

• Christine pivoted: rebranded Gwinnie Bee as CaaStle ("clothing as a service"), providing backend rental tech for big brands like Express and Ralph Lauren ([21:02-23:35]).
• The business model—powering retail subscriptions—was praised for cutting fashion waste and offering a solution to fast fashion’s environmental toll ([23:29-23:54]).

The Scam Unravels

• Massive deception: Christine produced fake financial statements, audits, and bank records—claiming hundreds of millions in cash, operating profits, and looming IPOs ([25:26-27:27]).

• Quote:
  “She gave these investors falsely inflated income statements, fake audited financial statements, fictitious bank account records, and sham corporate records…”
  — Laci Mosley ([26:08])

• Actual numbers were drastically lower than reported:

  • Claimed $24 million profit in Q2 2023—actual was less than $30,000
  • Claimed $200 million cash—actual was under $200,000 ([27:00-27:27]).

• Christine forged board signatures to raise $20M more ([28:17-28:34]).

• She set up a shell company (P180) to funnel money back to CaaStle—a classic "robbing Peter to pay Paul" move ([28:45-29:21]).

• Money mysteriously disappeared from new investors’ accounts, some directly wired to Christine’s personal account ([30:38-32:20]).

The Fallout

• Investors only discovered the scam after a money manager couldn’t access company audits ([34:03-34:21]).
• Directors, including “Google parent company” exec John Hennessy, quietly resigned; whistle wasn’t blown to avoid public shame ([34:22-35:08]).
• Christine admitted to the board she’d run a Ponzi operation, but investors were left in the dark until the very end ([35:09-36:00]).
• She was finally forced out in early 2025; the company went bankrupt in June 2025, and she was charged with multiple counts of fraud ([38:11-39:16]).
• Out on $1M bail; as of the episode, not sentenced ([39:44-40:30]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On scammer psychology:
  “They want [victims] to WhatsApp, to Signal. Never go to a second location—that works for phones as well.”
  — Laci Mosley ([07:08])

• On tech founder mythmaking:
  “If somebody tried to put you on 40 under 40 or your publicist does…you’re going to jail. There’s a pipeline!”
  — Laci Mosley ([18:43])

• On the scale of Christine’s lying:
  “She was just like, add some zeros to that.”
  — Laci Mosley ([27:27])

• On the consequences of shame:
  “There’s nothing worse to a rich person than realizing that they’re not as smart as they thought they were.”
  — Laci Mosley ([35:08])

• On scammer resilience:
  “Honestly, I don’t want her to go to prison just because of the people she stole from. Peter Thiel can still—I don’t care.”
  — Laci Mosley ([40:35])

• On public belief in con artistry:
  “It’s pretty amazing how much we’ll empower the liars because we want to believe.”
  — Margaret Cho ([41:33])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Introduction & Margaret’s Scam Story: 02:18–05:33
• Fear, Shame, and Scammer Psychology: 08:23–10:09
• Christine Hunsicker’s Rise in Tech: 13:34–16:28
• Gwinnie Bee & Inclusion in Fashion: 16:28–17:45
• Castle, Retail Tech Pivot, and Environmental Hopes: 21:02–23:54
• Lies, Fake Financials, and Forgeries: 25:26–29:21
• The Discovery and Board Fallout: 34:03–36:00
• Charges and Aftermath: 38:11–40:30
• Ethics and Empathy for Scammers: 41:01–41:56
• Con-gregation Closing Thoughts: 42:03–43:32

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Tone & Chemistry

• Laci and Margaret blend sharp, playful banter with incisive critique, making the story both hilarious and revealing.
• Their comedic rapport shines, especially when riffing on scam culture (like "never go to a second location"), plus side tangents on fashion, cat scams, and shady tech investments.
• The tone oscillates between “true con” amazement and genuine social critique—especially around the consequences of scams and what makes us fall for them.

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Conclusion

A lively, laugh-out-loud yet eye-opening examination of how even "good ideas" can become massive frauds in the hands of a bold con artist—and how shame and belief keep the scam economy thriving. Plus, some cathartic shade thrown at billionaires and a reminder: if something looks too good to be true, it probably is.

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For more Margaret Cho:

• Tour dates: margaretcho.com
• Instagram: @margaretcho
• TikTok: @theMargaretCho

For Laci Mosley:

• Tour dates: LiveNation for Scam Goddess
• TV show: Scam Goddess on Hulu
• Book: Scam Goddess (hardcover/audiobook available)

Laci's final advice:
"Get out there and stay schemin’!"

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Transcript

[A]

Scams, Robbery and fraud. Scam. Cause robbery and fraud. What's poppin? Congregation? It's your girl, Lacey Mosley, AKA Scam Goddess, back with another installment of the comedy podcast all about Robbery, Fraud and those who practice it. Sometimes we love them, sometimes we hate them. We will find out in congregation. We have a returning member of the congregation back here today, a standup comedian, actress, and musician on the show. You've seen her on All American girl, 30 Rock, will Trent, fire island, all her amazing standup comedy specials, and so much more. She has an album out now called Lucky Gift. You can listen to that right after this episode. Congregation. Okay. She got some hymns for the church.

[B]

I know.

[A]

That's right. And you can catch her live on her choligarchy stage. Stand Up Comedy tour happening now through August. Yes.

[B]

Come on.

[A]

Chola Gharkry. An icon, a comedy legend. She is. Congregation, please stand up out of your pews, your seats, your cars, and welcome Margaret Cho back to the show. Hi, Margaret.

[B]

Hi. I love you. Thank you.

[A]

Yes. Loving. More. So happy that you're back.

[B]

I'm so grateful to be back.

[A]

I. This is random, but. And I know it's like an old thing that you did, and you're always popping and moving and shaking, but Your arc on 30 Rock was one of my favorite random bits ever. And I watched 30 Rock a lot, like, over. Because I just think it's a show with just so many, like, AK 47 rounds of jokes and Kim Jong Un.

[B]

Oh, thank you. Thank you. It's like. Yeah, it's like a comfort show for a lot of people. Like, it's one of those things that you kind of want to watch before you're going to sleep because it's like, you know, we need things that are comforting, and we need things that are. We know are funny from a simpler time. So. But thank you.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

That was a lot of fun to do.

[A]

Yes. It's iconic. I've always wanted to do something like that where, like, people can watch it for years and years to come. You know what I mean? Because, like, there's so many jokes. Every time I watch it again, I find something new and funny about you, about everyone. And so it's very. It's very.

[B]

Yeah, everybody's so funny. It's a really. It was a really fun thing to do.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

Thank you for. For bringing all this talent to the world. We appreciate it. Now, I have to ask you, Margaret, like, since we've spoken, you know, what has your relationship with Scams been? Have there Been any that have been quite titillating to you or has anything happened to you? It could literally be anything.

[B]

So this is very rare. I actually jumped into the DMs of a very famous person who I wanted to date. And I've never done this, but we started talking, and I gave them my phone number, and then I got a text right away, but it didn't seem like it was from that person. It was, hi, I'm so glad that I have your number, and I just want to see what you're doing. And it didn't sound like the same person. And I was like, this is not the same, and I didn't want to go in the DMs. Did you text me? Like, I didn't want to say anything like that. Like, I just was like, I just let it sit on it. And then I waited for a day because I thought it was one of those texts, like, you know, hey, we're supposed to go golfing. Or, you know, like, those weird things, like, okay, I'll meet you at the doctor's office. You know, those things. And it sounded like one of those. But I also had just given this person in my DMs my number. So I did. I. It was so awkward. So I, like, waited a day, and then finally I wrote back, and I'm like, is this the person that I was talking to? And they're like, no, it's Roberta. And then it was a picture of, like, a beautiful Asian woman.

[A]

Oh, Lord Jesus.

[B]

And it was like, one of those. And I was, like, so angry. So the movie star didn't work out, But I was so mad that the timing was that I thought it was that person.

[A]

So was this a chance where the scammer just kind of got, like, some kismet luck and it was a coincidence?

[B]

Yes, total coincidence. Total coincidence. But I actually get those things pretty often. Like those weird phishing texts, like, this is the doctor speaking and you have an appointment, or we're supposed to meet up and play golf, or, hey, mom, dad, is this your number still? Like, I get so many of those. And I think it's because I got scammed before a few years ago during the pandemic when I tried to buy a cat online.

[A]

I remember you telling me about that.

[B]

Yeah. When I tried to buy a cat online. So I think I'm on a register where people are like, she's an easy mark.

[A]

She's easy to call our numbers. Like the data breach. I'm. I'm fully convinced I'm putting on my tin hat. But I'm fully convinced that those data breaches are literally just companies selling our information and then acting like, oh, my God, we don't know who did it. But just so you know, like, we. We gave them everything. Once you bought that, you know, Toyota Camry, like, what do you mean?

[B]

You're right. You're totally right, because that's. That's exactly what they've been doing. But it's like, I've just been breached so many times because I refuse to change my number. I don't really know how to do anything. Like, I'm very, like, lax on stuff, so I definitely. And I've been to GAM before, and, you know that cat scam got me for a couple of thousand dollars?

[A]

Yeah, I remember that one. Ouch. Everyone wanted a pet. Everyone wanted someone to cuddle. We were all indoors. It's like. It's one of the nastiest scams to do.

[B]

It's like, people just want connection for a little animal. And showing me all these cute pictures of kitties. And so it was just very. It was rough. So I think. But, you know, when you get marked as, like, somebody who can be conned, they never want to let you go.

[A]

Oh, no. Once they think they can get you once, they're going to spin the block again and again. And I feel like with this situation, it's unique because this is one of the scams that I haven't ever gotten to the end game of. Like, when you talked about the, like, oh, I'm your mom, or, oh, the doctor. I've gotten the golfing one a lot. Or it's like, hey, girl, like, you're late for lunch. And I'm like, I don't know who this is. And they're like, oh, it's me, so. And so then they send a picture, and it's always some conventionally attractive, you know, like, East European woman. And I try to keep it going. Like, I've tried a couple times. The next time, I'm not going to fail because I got a little too cocky. And I was, like, talking back to the person. I was like, oh, girl. Like, I don't know you, but you seem cool. Like, we should link up. Like, we should go for whatever. Whatever. I got pretty far in the conversation because I'm trying to figure out, what do you want? Yeah, what do you want? And so I was so excited because I got pretty far that I put a screenshot on my Instagram story, and I was like, y', all, I'm Getting close. As soon as I put that screenshot up, they were like, oh, nevermind, this is the wrong person. And they stopped talking to me. And I'm like, fuck, they must be watching my stories. This is somebody who somehow has gotten my information. I was like, damn.

[B]

They, they put it together. They, they, they, they were like, this is too easy. Because what they want is somebody that's old, who's lonely, who's vulnerable, that they can build a relationship with. I mean, that's basically they're just looking for an entry into conversation where they can either talk you into doing some kind of bitcoin crypto investment scam or, or something to that effect.

[A]

Like, they want to take you to WhatsApp. They want to take you to Signal. They definitely, like, never go to a second location that, that works for phones as well. If we don't, we have an iPhone bookie. Like, we're not going to WhatsApp.

[B]

We're not going to WhatsApp. We're Not Going to Signal. We're not going to telegram. No, there's no. It is exactly like that's where they kill you in the second location. So we have to be very, very aware. But I think they're just looking for people who are lonely. They don't like it when people actually actively try to waste their time.

[A]

You know, now they're offended. I'm like, you trying to waste my

[B]

money aware of it. Yeah, they're aware of it.

[A]

And the thing too is that I feel like when you said the part about like, you don't change your passwords or you don't change your number, like, I absolutely understand that. And for those people out there who are, you know, doing what Margaret Chell's doing, who are part of the choligarchy, you know, tickets right now, y', all, I think that it's not a bad thing to operate that way. Just know that if a scammer emails you or reaches out to you and is like, hey, I have your password, or, hey, I have your number. Hey, I know where you live, or da, da, da. If they had enough information to take anything from you, they wouldn't reach out to you, right? So don't get scared. Don't engage. I've had people send me photos of myself and we're like, well, I know this is you and I'm going to expose you. I don't respond to that email because, bitch, if you was going, okay, do it. Waste your time, bitch, I don't give a fuck. I look good in that picture. And it's not either. I'm like, I don't give a damn.

[B]

Like, I mean, who cares? Like, it's like, that's. That's what's really sad is when people really get stuck with fear and they're like, so afraid that their friends and family are going to find out about certain things or whatever. And it's just, that's a. That's a whole nother level of scandal. That's like sextortion or extortion where it's really. That's really evil. And that's unfortunately the reality for a lot of, like, teenagers now have to deal with that kind of stuff, which I think. I mean, I'm just so glad that I'm sort of like, numb to it and I don't really care. But, yeah, people can get. You can get done with that kind of stuff.

[A]

Yeah. Because I mean, that's one of the biggest currencies in scams is fear and shame. Yeah, shame. Especially because shame is like the next step of fear. You know what I mean? So it's like fear is the root, but shame is like the mask. It's like the fear is that you're gonna be embarrassed.

[B]

So. Right.

[A]

I absolutely understand people want to cover that up. But that's how a lot of scammers continue to get away with things is

[B]

because that's how they operate. It's their ammunition. And it's really. I mean, that's really sad. But yeah, the fact that that exists and is such a big industry. They make billions of dollars and I

[A]

mean, look at our president. Look at all these mocking people still hanging on. And it's simply because they're so ashamed to say that they got got and that they were foolish. And then there's some people who are just like, look, I want the world to burn. Like, I didn't get what I was promised in the white contract, so all the browns gotta die. You know, you got those people, but then you also have the people who are like, no, I believe in him. They don't know what the fuck he stands for or what the fuck he's doing, but they're just like, I don't wanna be proven a fool. I'm too ashamed.

[B]

They're too ashamed. It's just. They're embarrassed. It's a sunk cost fallacy. They bought into it so much. They bought so much Trump merch and they can't go back. Yeah.

[A]

And also, I don't know why they didn't realize when the president kept selling their merch once he was in office. Like, bro, this is a gr. I had one Obama T shirt, and I wore it. Oh, I had two. Cause they was cute. It was two little different ones. Because the first was for both elections, for one for different elections. Because the first election I couldn't vote. And then the second I could. But I, like, block walked and phone banked and did whatever I could.

[B]

That's great.

[A]

The first one. But, like, I had those two T shirts. I don't know where those shirts are. Like, I would wear one to work out every now and then. But, like, why are y' all wearing merch? Like, y' all going to his concert every day? Like, you don't think that's strange? You don't think that's strange? He always. He got a gold shoe for y'. All. He got a card. He got earrings, Bitcoin. You don't think it's weird? He's slanging like. Like, imagine if you were in the White House and the president was like, bruhman from Martin. And he just opened his trench coat and he was like, hey, y', all, the president got all this stuff for y', all, which I want 2 for 5, 5 for 30. Like, what are we doing?

[B]

But he's such a scammer. It's like, he scammed. Yeah, he scammed so much.

[A]

But the shame of it all is, like, really what I wanted to, like, link in with. And I'm sorry that it didn't work out. Like, what? You shooting your shot. But, I mean, you got a response, though.

[B]

Okay, I did. I did. We had it. We had a nice conversation. And it's just. Was the first time I had ever done that. But that's why I just got got by the scammer, because it was the timing.

[A]

Yeah, they got lucky.

[B]

They got really lucky. And I could have just fallen in, but it's. It's good. It's good that it didn't work out. I mean, I just really expect scams. I listen to your podcast so much and watch your TV show so much that I just. I think everything's a scam, which is really. You're educating the people.

[A]

We.

[B]

Now we're in the congregation, we think everything is a scam. So we're always looking out for ourselves.

[A]

Yeah. And I think in some way, everything can be a scam. It doesn't mean everything is a scam, but everything can be a scam. Which I don't want people to be, like, pessimistic or, like, scared, but I think having that mentality exactly what you just said, Margaret, like, I love that that's what you took from it. Because that mentality keeps you safe. Because the people who think it could never happen to me, that's who it happens to. Because you see all these red flags. You're like, it could never happen to me. It could never happen to me. And it's like, no, baby, it's happening to you right now. And because you refuse to believe it would, you're gonna wake up one day. And it did.

[B]

Exactly. Exactly. Sc.

[A]

Let's get into our historic hoodwink today. Today we're gonna be talking about fashion CEO Christine Hunsicker, aka the Bernie Madoff of fashion. Yes. Christine wasted $350 million of investor money, lied about her company's net worth, and when at the company found out, they left her in charge for months. So once they busted her, they were like, well, okay, so she is giving fashion. Christine's got it. She is.

[B]

She's very. She's also very stock photography. She is.

[A]

It's very, very.

[B]

It's giving very stock photographer. Like, stock photography.

[A]

Yes, you're absolutely right. Like, this could definitely be like a LensCrafters commercial. Like, I could go into, like, a. An eye doctor, and they would have her photo up. I don't think those glasses have prescription, but.

[B]

No, but it is very. Like, I, you know, I need some. I need a 2020 vision. And I, you know, it's very like an ad she's giving me.

[A]

Barista at a local cafe. Employee of the month.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, definitely, definitely.

[A]

So the hunt sticker. Proxy. So Christine was born in Pennsylvania. Okay. Shout out to PA and went to Princeton. Okay. Where she played field hockey and learned German for her medieval studies minor. All of this is adding this photo. I'm seeing Princeton. I'm seeing field hockey. I'm seeing medieval studies. Cuz. Ma', am, what was you gonna do with that? This, like 2007, but okay, sure. So one of her early jobs was a project manager for Right Media, an online advertising startup in New York. She was promoted to president before Right Media was sold to Yahoo for $850 million in 2007. Now, Yahoo. See, y' all made a lot of bad financial decisions. Cause I never even knew about Right Media. I don't think they deserve 850 million of your dollars. No. Never seen this logo in my life.

[B]

No, no.

[A]

Yeah, Yahoo made a lot of poor decisions. I mean, they're still hanging on. I know I still have my email over there for spam.

[B]

That's good. That's good.

[A]

And anytime I sign up for, like, a clothing land, you know, and they're like, we want to sign up for a discount. I'm like, oh, yeah, here's my Yahoo.

[B]

Oh, that's a good idea. That's smart.

[A]

So after taking a year off to get Scuba certified, this lady just be doing anything.

[B]

She's busy. Yeah.

[A]

She took a job at another tech startup called Drop IO, an online file sharing service that was purchased by Facebook for $10 million in 2010. Why wasn't I just making up tech stuff with boring logos in the early 2000s?

[B]

Because that's what everybody was doing. They were just buying it up.

[A]

The girls were buying it up.

[B]

Yeah, they were spending money on that.

[A]

Like, Mark Zuckerbooty bought this. Like, I've never seen this on Facebook.

[B]

Never dripped a drop.

[A]

Oh, this was genius, man. We should have just been buying up domains in 2000. What were we doing? I should have got what Danica Pancher told us. She said, go on, go, daddy. Get these. Get these domains. And I played. So she got Scuba certified, right? She got Drop IO sells that to Mark Zuckerberg's. And Zuckerberg had really only bought it because he wanted to hire one of their employees, Sam Lesson. The rest of the company shut down and the employees were laid off. So this was a vanity purchase. So Sam was like, if you want to get me, you got to get my company. Love how this works for people. In 2011, Christine finally launched her own startup. And this was called Gwinnie B, a subscription service renting everyday clothes to women sizes 10 to 32. For a monthly fee, you could get a few items of clothing sent to you with a prepaid return package. So when you sent those items back, your next batch would ship. And Gwynny B. Would take care of the washing, dry cleaning of all the stuff that you returned. They also had a size advisor tool, which would recommend a size to pick, like, from each brand. And Christina hit the jackpot again. Honestly, Christine got hella ideas.

[B]

This is actually a good idea, though. I mean, it's hard, you know, especially like mid size or plus size. It's hard to find those basics that you like. It's also hard to go out to, you know, shopping and stuff like that,

[A]

because in the store, they only carry up to a certain size. A lot of people don't have the, you know, they don't go blonde. The plus size.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Or plus size to them is like a 14. And that's where they stop and it's like, yeah. So if you can't buy it in the store. It's hard to find online. Sourcing it all together at one place. And at least from what I'm looking at at the website right here, the outfits and stuff, especially for the time. This is like early 2000s. This is what the girls were wearing. You know what I mean? The jean jackets, the. Even those, like, tops with the kind of like pre. Like, what would you call that little V that you knit at the top with the flower? Emborn.

[B]

Yeah. Or, you know, they've got a cold shoulder.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

They're gonna give you a cold shoulder. Like, they're always gonna have a cold shoulder. I don't know what that is, but. Yeah, like, the whole thing about it is it's hard to find plus sizes that are cute, that are. If you want to change up your look that often, it's nice. I mean, I think that it's nice for, you know, to. For people who are the. The size to feel like, oh, I'm being accommodated. I'm being sold to. This is good. This is a good idea.

[A]

Especially because of our demos in America, a lot of people are plus size, and then their. Their clothing is treated like an afterthought. And it's. I have some plus size friends who somewhere in the industry are always talking about. They were like, I don't understand why they think that plus size people want to wear a cheetah print all the time. I don't understand why they think we need ruffles. They love to put a ruffle on it. A cheetah print. Like you said, an exp. Shoulder. Like, we'll let you show a little top of the shoulder, girl. That's all you get. That's all you get now. Yeah, like, so. So this is a genius idea to me. Damn, girl. Why you have to go into crime? You doing something good for the community. So Project Runway fashion startup. So this is when Christine. Christine, she becomes a. Yeah, she becomes a rising star in the fashion world. She was on Crain's New York business 40 under 40 list. And what I tell you about them list, if somebody tried to put you on the list or if your publicist tried to put you on 40 under 40. 30 under 30. You're going to jail. You're going to jail. Just look up the pipeline. Don't do it.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

So she. She got on the 40 under 40 list and was one of Inc's most impressive women entrepreneurs and was recognized by the National Retail Federation as a pioneer shaping the future of retail I agree with all of this. In 2016, she appeared as a judge on Project Runway Fashion startup. Okay. She was over there with Heidi and them. Oh, wow. Yes. And wait, is that Nigel? Zoom in on that photo. Oh, no, that's another white man. But okay, so this is the. The more fashion Runway startup business. This is like the. The shark tank of fashion.

[B]

Oh, okay. Yeah. Huh.

[A]

Because none of these people look like models. No shade. It's just like, you know how high looks.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So, yeah, so she's on there like the shark tank for clothes. Interestingly, the other investors and judges on the show decided Christine had the best poker face because she was good at saying one thing backstage and doing another on camera. So Christine was on top of the world. Gwynny B worked well. Her users enjoyed it, and so, of course, it was time to make a change. I wonder what they mean by poker face. Let's see.

[B]

Carrie has an amazing poker face, but Rebecca, she doesn't let you in on what she's thinking about.

[A]

I'd have to say Christine had the best poker face.

[B]

The best poker face is Christine. You never know what she's thinking. Sometimes she's quiet and you think she's completely disinterested. And then she surprises us all by baking the biggest investment.

[A]

Who had the best poker face? Obviously me. She surprised us.

[B]

We would talk a little bit in our boardroom.

[A]

We would speak off camera, and then I would come on and do something completely different than what I had just committed to. She would come out and surprise us. We realized that we've got to be

[B]

a little more careful. Careful. And less candid in the boardroom.

[A]

So this is giving me, like, a little bit of shade of like, we all made a decision of what we were going to put in investment wise. And, like, she was like, yeah, tell me how your idea. Tell me your idea. What's your idea? Yeah. That's crazy. I'm thinking the same as you. I'm thinking the same as you. I like what you thinking. And then she get out there and be like, I want it all.

[B]

Totally, totally.

[A]

It's getting unscrupulous.

[B]

It's very unscrupulous. It's very unscrupulous.

[A]

It was giving, like, how can we say that she's untrustworthy? Like, what?

[B]

She's cutthroat. She wants the money. That's all she cares about.

[A]

Right. They was all basically saying, like, yeah, Christine be lying to us. Christine lied to us every day.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

If Christine talking, she lying.

[B]

Mm.

[A]

But we love that. We love that. I was like, ooh, I gotta start stepping up my lie game. No. Okay. So I don't know why, if things are working, don't keep expanding on these things and working on these things. But clearly she's a serial entrepreneur, which is my loving type title for scammers who have to keep moving into other fields. So she starts something called Castle with two A's. She rebranded Gwynneby as Castle. Instead of being a subscription clothing rental company, it would be the tech that helped existing brands run their own subscription services. Christine called it clothing as a service or cast. Okay. And that's why she renamed the business Castle. Castle was supposed to manage all aspects of the service for retail partners, from consumer facing websites to the cleaning and shipping of garments to custom service. Retailers like Express or Ralph Lauren would pay Castle a per user per month fee to run their rental services. Each retailer would set their own monthly subscription rate to like from 49.95 to $160 a month for three or four items. Christine and Castle was like, it was like a high growth private company doing bofo business for like Express, Ralph Lauren and Taylor Banana Republic. Vince. And they were providing retail rental technology behind the scenes. But customers would never know Castle was involved. So basically she realized that with Gwenny B. She had made all the infrastructure to do this like rental clothing type situation. Then she was like, well, why am I doing this for one company when I get my hands up in everybody business and the consumer doesn't even need to know, so they keep the, to keep their brand equity and I get to get my coins. And this kind of reminds me of like, I don't know if this is a secret, but you know, when you get styled for an event or something, sometimes you decide you want to purchase the look because you like the look and you want to have it in your closet. But other times there are certain stores that your stylist can go to pull things for you to wear and then they're dry cleaned and they're returned and you pay a certain percentage of the whole price but you don't pay for the whole thing because you're not going to keep it. Because sometimes when you photograph something that's dead or I've, you know, worn some outfits, outfits that are so extravagant that I'm like, where am I going wear this again, you know.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

So it's like that, but for the average everyday consumer, which I think is pretty cool. And I think that saves on waste.

[B]

Yeah. And it's, it's better in the long Run. So then fast fashion just becomes actually just slow fashion. Everybody's fashion. So, you know, it doesn't have that, like, disposability factor. There's like, a bunch of different people wearing it per season. I think it's a good idea, I mean, for like, just the climate change of it all.

[A]

Yeah. So it doesn't end up in a landfill or on a barge or, you know, some seals.

[B]

There's positive aspects to it. Yeah.

[A]

Tied up in some fashion nova in the ocean. Like, the seals are tired of wearing Teemu. Okay. No, they don't want to do it. No more robbery and fraud. So her revenue projections for 24 or 2024 and 2025 were 793 million DOL and $1 billion. And she said that clothing as a service, like, as a company, had hundreds of millions in cash on hand as of the mid, like, 2024s. So these kinds of numbers got her a $350 million venture capital, like, investment from, you know, VCs, including Peter Thiel. You know, notorious great guy Peter Thiel. Who says. Who says that? I'm not sure. We need humanity no more.

[B]

Look at her. Oh, I'm not sure we don't need Ms. Peter.

[A]

She needs to go. Like, if we don't be so sick of her. I'm so sick of her. You should start. Why don't you lead the way, Peter? In the End of Humanity, you start, and then we gonna come after you. We're gonna be in line. We're gonna be in line, but just you jump first and then we go. Yeah. Elon's frenemy and backer of the steroid Olympics, which we've covered on this show. But, you know, getting this money. Christine was lying. So now that I know where the money is coming from,

[B]

I don't feel so bad. No, I don't feel so bad about it. It's fine.

[A]

So according to a number of lawsuits that led to bankruptcy and probably the demise of the whole company. Castle, Christine led investors, or Christine lied to investors. From February 2019 up until now, the company was actually not working. And she just pretended that it was. I mean, a lot of companies do that.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Like, do we think Arby's is really working? Who's. Who's going to Arby's? Is it a drug friend?

[B]

People who love roast beef, But I think, you know, it. I think roast beef is not really working either. I mean, who's really going to go dying on a roast beef hill?

[A]

I mean, I don't Know who eats roast beef every day with their homegirls?

[B]

Yeah, I don't know.

[A]

Yeah, you're right. The roast beef industry and Arby's. What kind of clues you all got going on? What, are y' all transferring in that beef? Yes, because you know the FDA ain't opening that beef up. Trying to get a taste. What kind of drugs are y' all smuggling into the. Into the country? We know. So she gave these investors falsely inflated income statements, fake audited financial statements, fictitious bank account records, and sham corporate records, which I think is pretty interesting that you could do that up until today, because that's like an old school Bernie Madoff where they were literally cooking the books.

[B]

Yeah. That's incredible.

[A]

So she was doing sham bank statements in the 2000 and twenties.

[B]

Yeah. That's pretty bold.

[A]

Props. She told one investor in August of 2023 that Castle reported an operating profit of nearly $24 million in the second quarter of 2023, when its operating profit in that quarter was actually less than $30,000.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

For the year overall.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

The company was operating at a loss of $80 million. At a loss. In the written like girl, the lies. One fake bank account screenshot which Christine showed an investor showed that castle had nearly $200 million in available cash. At the time, they actually had less than $200,000.

[B]

Uh huh.

[A]

So she was just like, add some zeros to that.

[B]

Just add. That's all she did. Not even that really creative. She just added a couple of zeros. That's so great.

[A]

It really is. Because now I think about falsifying a bank statement if everything else looks legit. And all you did was just go and added one little zero.

[B]

That's all.

[A]

Move a comma.

[B]

Easy. Classy.

[A]

Classy. So fake financial supported Christine's story that Cassel was about to go public and get bought by a bigger company. In 2023, she was confronted over providing an investor with a fake audit. And she claimed it was a one time error. You know how that one time you give somebody a fake audit?

[B]

Yeah. Everybody makes mistakes, you know, it happens. Yeah.

[A]

One time you give them a fake audit and you like oops, whoop dee doo, and then it's gonna be real the next time.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

So in 2024, she forged a board director's signature to raise more than $20 million for the company. So now she's forging signatures. I mean, maybe all these side quests that she took are really paying off. I don't know where the medieval studies is Happening. But maybe it's, like, in subterfuge or just, like, adding.

[B]

Maybe they did that in the middle, like, ages is just add zero. Did they have zeros then, or they just got made? No, they had zeros.

[A]

They had zeros then. Yeah.

[B]

So she.

[A]

That's how she learned how to, like, fuck with the coffers and, you know, make it seem like the king had coin when the king was broke. So she made more than $275 million from misinformed investments before forming another company called P180 in 2024. But P180 only existed to infuse Castle with more cash before its investors could discover the fraud. So she was like, y' all get involved in P180. This is my new thing. And then she was basically robbing Peter to pay Paul. Oh, okay. I don't even know what P180 does, but it does sound like they're gonna turn it around.

[B]

It sounds like that really hard workout. Remember that hard workout, P90X. Yeah. I thought that's what it was.

[A]

Y' all do. That was really hard. It was hard as fuck. Is that Sean? Oh, Shawn.

[B]

It was also insanity. It was similar to insanity.

[A]

Yeah, it was similar. Insanity. One of them was Shawn, or what was his name? Shawn. Something like that. Shaun T. My favorite thing about Shaun T. Was Shaun T. Was very gay. But Shaun T. Wanted to keep his market, and so I think he thought he had to pretend to be straight. But it was so funny because. Cause we knew he was gay.

[B]

Yeah. You could just see it. You could feel it.

[A]

But he would always be trying to play up his heterosexuality while he was working. Oh, yeah, ladies. Ooh.

[B]

Yeah. Oh.

[A]

And I was like, sean, look at his family. They're so.

[B]

I love them.

[A]

They're beautiful. Everybody knows you're gay. The men, the women, we don't care. The workout is killing us.

[B]

It's fine.

[A]

It's great.

[B]

It was a hard workout.

[A]

It was hard as hell. And honestly, like, I feel like even straight men know that if you really want that great gym body, your instructor's gonna be a gay man.

[B]

Yes. You have to. You have to go to the homosexual world.

[A]

Yes. Because they take the body seriously.

[B]

That's right. That's right.

[A]

Yes. So Brendan Hoffman was a seasoned fashion executive who previously led companies like Vince and Wolverine Worldwide. He launched the company P1 80, inspired by a meeting with Christine. She told him Castle was a thriving business with a subscriber base in the hundreds of thousands. Proprietary technology, and reported $1.4 billion in, like, a valuation. So after Brendan formed the company and gave Castle a 25% stake in it, he noticed unauthorized fund transfers from its accounts, including $1.4 million and $500,000 withdrawn in June of 2024, then $950,000 and $450,000 withdrawn in July of 2024, and two transfers totaling $1.3 million wired to Christine's personal account in January of 2025. She was using the money to cover losses and make it look like her company still had money to spend. So the Brendan guy who came in, and he was the one who developed this P180 inspired by Christine, he was like, okay, I'm gonna give you all this coin. We're gonna open this bank account. Christine was like, thank you so much. This is so wonderful. Brandon, now don't. You don't need to look at the bank accounts no more because. Ma', am, what do you mean? You took one point. You took $1.4 million and $500,000 in June. Then in July of that same year, you took $950,000 and $450,000. You took. You took all that money in two months and thought he wasn't gonna notice.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

And then by January 2025, you had took another 1.3 million, and you just thought he wasn't gonna notice?

[B]

No, no.

[A]

Like, what? Christine was bold as hell.

[B]

Well, it's less than she's been taking from everybody else. Like, it's actually less. So it does seem like a little bit to her.

[A]

That's true. Cause you're. Yeah, you're right. In the grand scheme, like, 350 million. If I'm working with 350 million, then I'm like, 1.4. That's like a little. It's like 1400.

[B]

It's like the change that falls in between the couch cushions. It's really not that much.

[A]

Yeah, you're not gonna notice. 1.4. No, you're not gonna notice. 2.7. You're not gonna. Like. So this is the long process of her getting kicked out. We're getting to her getting caught and her getting out also. Can we just stop for a second and look at Brendan? He was the one who created P180. Brendan. He kind of gives me, like, rube vibes. Like, remember, Christine's got the poker face. Right? Right?

[B]

Yes. Yes.

[A]

This guy, to me, has the opposite of a poker face.

[B]

Yeah, he's definitely. You know, he's got a lot of people going, hey, you know what? You're late for golf. I thought you were going to meet me on the golf course. He's got a lot of people like that in his DMs and on his phone.

[A]

He's got. Yeah, he's got, like, please like me face. He's got like, I got money from Daddy and I'm trying to be a big businessman. And so. So I'm in tech, but, like, clearly not his gifts. Like, I. There's no way that I believe this man made all his money on his own. Like, he's not a bootstrapper. Like, he's trying to keep up with. He's, like, reminding me from, like, was it who was the brother in Secession, the older one who kept trying to run for president and shit?

[B]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[A]

He's got that energy of just like, he's spending Daddy's money and trying to be a big, successful man. Oh, what a rude.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

So the long process of getting kicked out. So Christine, in late 2024, a money manager who worked at Castle, that worked for, like, an investor at Castle, tried to double check the company's past audits and wasn't able to. Not a 404 clicked on the page and was, like, not found.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

He started asking more questions and brought it to the company's board of directors. The board included John Hennessy, the former president of Stanford University and a current director of goog, Google parent company Alphabet. Soon after, Hennessy quietly quit the board and was replaced. So Hennessy said something, right? And there's nothing worse to a rich person than realizing that they're not as smart as they thought they were and that you can get rich without necessarily being the most highly intelligent person. So instead of Hennessy being like, this bitch stole all my money. She stole all the money. He was like, I'm gonna quietly resign. Here are my shares back to St. Bart's I go like, why didn't you just blow the whistle? Because he didn't want to be ashamed.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So sometime during this transition, an investigation was launched, and Christine apparently admitted to the board what she had done. She said, okay, look, I've been running a little. A little. Little Ponzi, just like a tiny Charles, you know?

[B]

Oh.

[A]

And so investors were never told about the board transition, the investigation, or the fraud. So she told the board, hey, this is what I did. I've been stealing, I've been robbing, and I've been, you know, crime. And they're like, okay, let's keep this in their hush. Let's not tell any of the Investors. Honestly, I'm on board. We don't need to warn Peter Thiel.

[B]

No, no.

[A]

We need Peter off the planet. Okay.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

So many of these board members did hear from Christine, who somehow still had her job and was still asking them for more money. So she was like, oh, well, since I still work here, can I have some more money? The audacity.

[B]

It's really amazing. It's amazing.

[A]

Like, what would you do in this situation if you're caught? You say, I, I did it.

[B]

I would say, I. At this point, I would say, I did. Look, I, I made a mistake and I did it. And what can I do to make it right instead of, oh, can I have some more money? Like that is where you show your whiteness. Like, that's really. That's mighty white of, of her.

[A]

Mighty white. It's pretty palm colored. But also, maybe she was trying to get the money to make it right. Maybe she was still.

[B]

Maybe, Maybe that. That's true. That's true. But how do you make it right at that point like that? I mean, it's like, really, where you

[A]

gonna come up with 350 million? You need more than that actually.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

I mean, it's giving me like a gambling mentality, you know, like when people lose a lot of money and they keep going to the ATM because they're like, I just need to hit and I'll be back up.

[B]

I know. Maybe that's what got her into this. The Adrian adrenaline of like, okay, keeping it all going, like keeping the bruise going.

[A]

Cause she had a successful company with Gwenny Gwynne and Pooh Gwynnethang. When was Gwenny.

[B]

So she didn't know she had been successful. And she sort of identifies as successful too. Like that's her identity, you know, and so that's why she thinks that this is possible.

[A]

And I bet you being in those types of rooms and like everyone's looking for their own type of currency when it comes to power. So let's say you don't have a lot of money. You can be very religious and piety can give you power. You know, let's say you're, you're. You also don't have a lot of money, but you're very beautiful. Being beautiful can give you tons of currency in this world. Let's say you're kind of fugly, but you own a Fortune 500. You know, there's rooms that you're going to walk into and they're gonna be, oh, chip, oh, there goes ship old bail bag. You Know, like. And so I feel like in the fashion industry, like no shade, but she wasn't gonna be giving all that. That's why she was on the fashion for the behind the scenes people. But in. But in this world, like, they don't care what you look like. It's like, how much money do you have? What's you. What's your, you know, debt ratio? I don't know. What's your roi? Like, these are their turn on words. And so.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you know, in other. In other lanes, it's like, what are your follower counts? And that's your power in those spaces. So I could see her being addicted to that.

[B]

Of course. Of course.

[A]

But you know, so she asking for a woman still big. Christine was forced to resign from Castle's board in December 2024 and formally resigned as chief executive in March of 2025. That's when the company finally told shareholders what was going on. I find it quite interesting that they let her resign before they told the shareholders because it. Christine would be an excellent scapegoat for all of this. Right.

[B]

Well, she's to blame for all of this. I mean, she, you know, that's who should. They should bring in. I mean, that's who they should blame because it is her fault.

[A]

Yeah, but what does she have on them? Because I've never seen men not throw a woman under the bus. Yeah, they'll do it for less. They'll do it for fun.

[B]

Yeah, for sure. For sure.

[A]

They be like, oh, I just. I tripped the lady and threw her under the bus this morning. I didn't know her. I don't know. She was a lady. Like, I can't believe they just let her go like this. So Castle filed for Chapter 7 bankruptcy in June of 2025, leaving investors with worthless shares. Oh, look at her. A looking shame that whatever she was doing, all this crime really sucked the life out of her. Cuz Christine don't look like she used to.

[B]

No. She doesn't look like a stock photo anymore.

[A]

No.

[B]

She's all just. Yeah, she's sad. It's bummed. She's bummed.

[A]

She looks stressed. She looks like she was stressing every day. She looked. She bite her nails in her sleep. She wake up screaming. Yes, that's how she wake up every morning. I need some coffee. Like it's just the norm. So she's been charged with fraud, aggravated identity theft, and false statements. If you don't know what aggravated identity theft is, it's one of my favorite terms. It's like Basically, when, like, remember, she forged some board member signatures and stuff.

[B]

Right.

[A]

That's aggravated identity theft. Okay.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And so she was released on a million dollars bail after pleading not guilty to scamming investors out of $300 million in what would be one of the biggest startup frauds of all time. As a condition of her bail, she is not allowed to contact any former employees or investors. Now, they did say any former. They didn't say she couldn't start up a new tech company, did she? I don't know. That is. That is as much as we have so far. This is an ongoing case, so she has not been sentenced or char. You know, she's been charged. She hasn't been sentenced for anything yet. So she's currently out on bail, and I don't know what she's doing. They should have said she don't have. She can't have no access to wi fi because clearly the Internet is where this lady gets in trouble.

[B]

Right. Right. I don't know. I wonder what happens. Like, you know, she gonna go to prison. We'll see.

[A]

I mean, honestly, I don't want her to go to prison just because of the people that she stole from. Peter Thiel can still. I don't care.

[B]

Yeah. Who cares?

[A]

I feel bad for the employees, the furloughed employees. I feel bad for them. I hope they got a good little cute little check while they could, but everybody else. Yeah, they can get in the bin.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Where would you rate this scam as far as, like, ethical unethical? Do you like Christine?

[B]

I kind of like her. I kind of like her. I like her in the same way that I like Elizabeth Holmes. Like, I'm like, you know what? The amount of, like, you know, the people you're getting money from, all those things, like, I. I agree with the people that she's ripping off. Like, yeah, they deserve it. And also, you know, it is the. The sheer audacity is kind of a wonder. Like, it's just. It's pretty amazing how much we'll empower the liars because we want to believe.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, we just are. We have an addiction to believe. Leaving, you know, really do.

[A]

I mean, the one thing I will say about Elizabeth Holmes is this gets buried a lot, is that she did try to run some of those, like, tiny thing blood tests on real cancer patients. And that, to me, was so up. And they did not get any justice or any money. So that's the only reason that I'm like her. But.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Everything else she did with the Investors and the black turtlenecks. I'm like, right on, sis. Like, totally. That's fine.

[B]

That's totally fine. Yeah, she totally ate that. It's really funny. Like, it's like, yeah, that's totally fine.

[A]

But saying that people want to believe, I think that is so beautiful because I see that every single day. It's like we form these parasocial relationships. And I joke about that all the time with this podcast because I want y' all to form a parasocial relationship with me now. Don't show up at my house when I'm done, you know, but we can be besties on the phone. Like, we can chat while you on your drive. What y' all talking about right now? Uh huh. Girl.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Traffic is crazy right now, ain't it? I know, I know. What's your baby doing? Put the podcast on in one room for the baby to listen to and then put it on in the other room so I can get more streams. Aw, that's cute.

[B]

That's so cute.

[A]

That kind of thing I understand, but I'm very honest about it. But I feel like with celebrities and celebrity culture, we get to this place where we have invested kind of a little bit of our personalities into these people. And so when they start doing something that is inappropriate or wrong, it's very hard for us to believe it. I mean, in business especially, like, it's. You can say the same thing. It's like, I want to believe that this is going to be the next big company. I want to believe that I'm invested in the next bitcoin. I want to believe that I'm on the ground floor of something because I want to, you know, have that success. So I'm gonna say, christine, girl, I'm on your side. And I know you were indicted. And we're waiting, we're waiting for this trial. Cause I need to see. But I'm praying for you. I hope that you don't have to go to a white collar jail because I don't wanna see you in there to playing tennis with Lizzie. I wanna see you free. Just because you scammed Peter Thiel. Like, I don't know, that's Robin Hood.

[B]

And that. Yeah, I think that is Robin Hood.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Good for her.

[A]

Good for her.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

All right, well, we always ask at the end of this podcast, Margaret, where would you like people to find you? Social media, obviously. Your tour, like, let the girls know.

[B]

People can find me. I'm on tour and I. You can get tickets on margaretcho.com. i'm on Instagram @margaretcho and I'm on TikTok at the Margaret Cho.

[A]

Yes. And y', all, I'm also going on tour with Live Nation, so you can get those tickets on livenation.com as Scam Goddess starting in the spring. And then, yeah, watch my TV show Scam Guys still on Hulu right now, y'. All. And then the book Scam Guys, you can get it on audio, you can get a paper or hard cover. And then that's where I be plugging everything. Going Dutch. Yes, on Fox. You can watch that. Thursdays, 9:30 Pacific. I should know these things. But yeah, going Dutch on Fox where I also kind of play as cameras. So get into the things and congregation. I want y' all to get out there and I want you to stay. Don't stop Christining. Okay, hold on to that Scheming. Yeah.

[B]

Beautiful

[A]

fake goddess. Bang, fraud and fuck. Peter Teal. Scam Goddess. Scam Goddess stars and is hosted by me, Lacey Mosley, AKA Scam Goddess. Our producer is Jessica Cisnam and our audio engineer is Rich Garcia. Research for the show is conducted by Kate Doyle. Stay Scheming.