A Star Wasn't Born w/ Justin Halpern

Summary

Scam Goddess: "A Star Wasn't Born" w/ Justin Halpern (June 9, 2026)

Episode Overview

In this lively and hilarious episode of Scam Goddess, host Laci Mosley welcomes acclaimed TV writer and producer Justin Halpern (Abbott Elementary, Harley Quinn, Sh*t My Dad Says) for his first visit to the “Con-gregation.” Together, they unravel the story of Mike Smith, a suburban dad who orchestrated a $10 million streaming fraud by manufacturing fake listeners and music—making him the first American to face criminal charges for such a scam. Along the way, Laci and Justin riff on tax accountants, the nature of love, the history of scams, and the absurdity of late-capitalist fraud, all in their signature playful, irreverent tone.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Scam, Scheme, or Real Thing? (04:02 – 10:52)

Laci quizzes Justin on whether common parts of adult life are scams, schemes, or legit:

• Tax Accountants:
  • Justin: "If you make over $5 million a year, it’s a scam." (04:45)
  • Both lament how tax strategy becomes a playground for the ultra-wealthy, but agree tax accountants are more real for regular people.
• Credit:
  • Justin: "Oh, that’s a scam. That’s a total scam. Because it just preys on people who can’t afford to pay off their bill every month." (06:43)
  • They joke about the 1980s being the golden era of cocaine-fueled illegitimate inventions—"anything invented in the 80s is a scam."
• Love:
  • Justin is sentimental: “Oh, real thing...I’ve been happily married and in real love for...16 years. And I 100% feel it’s a real thing.” (08:05)

2. Justin’s Personal Scam Story: Early Internet Advertising Shenanigans (10:57 – 15:01)

Justin confesses to being an unwitting participant in advertising fraud at dot-com era site Break.com, where porn site clickbait was used to juice ad views:

• Justin: “My job was to put that [Coca Cola] video up and then send it to the porn company...nobody’s gonna actually click on a Coca Cola ad. But they will if they think it’s a gang bang.” (11:48)
• Laci: "You were the original bot." (12:45)
• Both riff on the vulnerability of people in ‘certain moments’ as an underused demographic for advertising.

3. Hilarious Observations: Internet Culture & Porn Comments (19:04 – 21:01)

• Justin recounts a wholesome comment on a porn video: “Sometimes I think about this one comment I saw once...it just said, ‘Hey, great job.’” (20:10)
• Laci and Justin riff on the paradox that only the extremely productive and the extremely idle take time to comment on adult content.

4. Historic Hoodwinks: The Mike Smith Streaming Fraud (21:10 – 72:56)

The Backstory: Mike Smith’s Bizarre Career

• Suburban dad, urgent care owner, aspiring musician in tight shirts (24:47)
• After a divorce and midlife inspiration, Smith reinvents himself as a music mogul with help from "Hay," a notorious industry publicist [credited with manufacturing the Rihanna/Jay-Z rumor] (31:00).
• They launch an indie label, SMH Records (with actual industry execs!), and attempt to manufacture music fame through extravagantly bad albums and a rap reality competition show ("One Shot" on BET, 2016).

Music Video Madness (41:51 – 45:18)

• Auditory and visual highlights include "Lipstick" (a Kim Kardashian-themed suggestive track) and the even worse “Let’s Take it Naked.”
• Laci: "Not Dipstick being so outdated. It’s giving, like, ‘I know you want my pouch on your paddy whacker tonight.’” (44:10)

The Big Fraud: Streaming Bots, AI, and Millions Made (51:51 – 58:54)

• Mike creates 1,000s of email accounts, uses streaming bots, and eventually pivots to AI-generated "music" to create thousands of tracks, racking up fake royalties and Billboard chart hits (notably a jazz album that debuted at #1 in Vietnam).
• Justin: "This feels like I’ve turned a corner on this guy. I feel like this doesn’t seem like someone with a tiny penis to me at all." (52:56)
• Ultimately, Mike is busted by the FBI in 2024 after making $10M from music streams. He becomes the first person in the US criminally charged with streaming fraud.

Wider Context: Music Industry Scams (58:00 – 65:38)

• Laci: "Honestly, the music industry has so many scams going on... why is he any worse than anything else?" (56:49)
• Reflection on how streaming fraud affects actual musicians—robbing from the royalty pool, disproportionately harming smaller artists.

The Ugly Underbelly: Medical Fraud and More (66:46 – 69:09)

• Turns out, Mike was also scamming Medicare and Medicaid via his health businesses, facing lawsuits for unnecessary procedures and false claims.
• Laci: “This is why I always have a rule that I’m not gonna go see a doctor who’s also a jazz musician.” (68:02)
• Smith has since settled and faces up to 60 years if convicted.

5. Ethics & The Spirit of Scamming (72:02 – 73:10)

• Justin: “I generally don’t think you can scam up...like, if you’re scamming the music industry, is it really a scam if you’re scamming someone more powerful than you?” (72:04)
• Laci: “It’s really only a scam if you’re scamming down.” (72:56)

6. Memorable Quotes & Banter

• Laci (on the music video): "I know you want my lipstick on your dipstick. What?!" (42:21)
• Justin (on scam recovery): "He was just ahead of his time. He was just, like, a click too stupid." (70:34)
• Laci (on Spotify catching on): “Spotify is saying that they caught this early almost in a way that like, they were the fraud stoppers. But I feel like it was more that Spotify was like, we don’t like to give people money.” (60:45)
• On AI in music: “The only thing I wish he would have done is, like, not use AI to make the songs. We don’t need it, but...I wish he would have just made terrible songs all day long.” (70:35)

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Notable Segments & Timestamps

| Segment | Timestamps | Highlights | |----------------------------------------|-----------------|----------------------------------------------------| | Scam/Scheme/Real Thing? | 04:02–10:52 | Tax accountants, credit, and love discussion | | Justin’s Break.com Porn Ad Story | 10:57–15:01 | Ad scam via clickbait porn thumbnails | | Historic Hoodwinks: Mike Smith's Scam | 21:10–72:56 | Full scam breakdown, music video roasts, AI bots | | Dipstick Song Watch | 42:19–44:10 | Hilarious breakdown of “Lipstick” | | One Shot Reality Show | 47:14–51:47 | Rap competition on BET tied to Mike’s scam career | | Ethics of “Scamming Up” | 72:02–73:10 | Justin/Laci reflect on Robin Hood & victim dynamics |

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Final Thoughts & Plugs

• Justin Halpern’s novel, Get Lost, releases July 7—"fun, beach read," featuring a father-daughter scam hunt.
• Watch Abbott Elementary, Harley Quinn, and new episodes of Scam Goddess TV show on Hulu.
• Laci: “Get out there and stay licking them dipsticks!” (74:18)

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Episode Tone & Language

• Playful, irreverent, witty, culturally astute
• Plenty of banter, lighthearted raunch, and comedic analogies
• Keeps the focus on the absurdity and systems behind scams, rather than villainizing the people on the bottom rung

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[Stay schemin’, Congregation!]

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For listeners—this summary covers all the twists, jokes, and context of this week’s episode. You get the historic hustle, commentary on modern scams, industry insight, and a showcase of both Laci and Justin’s comic chemistry—no need to listen to all 75 minutes, unless you want every cackle and callback!

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Bone dry.

[A]

Um, hello? Who was that? I am your inner bosh. I'm sorry, what now? The feeling you get when you dismantle drips, eradicate moisture.

[B]

Some other tough words and stuff.

[A]

Lay waste to wetness.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Why didn't I think of that? Uh, I don't know.

[B]

Whatever. Like it's Droid. The more you bosh, the more you feel like a bosh.

[A]

Scams C. Robbery and fraud. Scam. Ca. Robbery and fraud. Scam Goddess. What's poppin, Congregation? It's your girl, Lacey Mosley, AKA Scam Goddess. Back with another installment about the podcast about robbery, fraud, and those who practice it. Sometimes we love them, sometimes we hate them. Will always laugh at them because this is a comedy show. But never the victims. Hey, congregation. What? Am I excited? Yes, thrilled. Thank you for the call and response. I am thrilled to have our guest today. He is a new member of the church. This is his first time at service, so please give him a warm welcome, even though he's probably already been welcomed into your homes and your lives for a long time. He is the hilarious Emmy winning co showrunner of Abbott Elementary. He co developed acclaimed animated series Harley Quinn. He gained initial fame from creating the Twitter feed and best selling book Shit My dad says Amen and is releasing a novel called Get Lost, a fast paced and hilarious thriller about a young woman who reluctantly teams up with her deadbeat dad to find her missing mom. When does he sleep? And he is a dad. Y' all know dads could be scams, but obviously Justin Halpert is not. And congregation, please get up out of your seats, stand up in your cars at the red light and welcome Justin Halpert to the show. Hello, Justin.

[B]

Hello. Thank you for having me. What an intro. Wow.

[A]

Thank you for being here.

[B]

I'm very excited to talk scams.

[A]

I'm. I'm really like trying to do intros as a metaphor in my own life for my own funeral. I hope someone does my intro to my funeral like this.

[B]

Wow, that would be. Yeah, that Would really be like an amped way to start a funeral. I feel like usually people go low, but I think pumping up a funeral.

[A]

I don't even want my casket to be there when people arrive. I want it to be announced who's dead. And then they roll out the casket with music.

[B]

Like the beginning of like a Lakers game where they're like, at five foot nine.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

At five foot nine, about to be six foot under. Lacy Moseley, you know?

[B]

Yeah, that's pretty great.

[A]

Like a little reel of my greatest hits.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe the lights go dark first and then.

[A]

Yeah, then we get some build up music.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But now I want to go to a funeral. Now I really want to. You're going to outlive me by about 30 years, but I still want to try.

[A]

Oh, who knows?

[B]

Who knows?

[A]

And Justin, you might need to be responsible for writing my intro. You're very good at writing, that much, is for sure. All the Emmys and accolades and shows that I watch and love.

[B]

So, yeah, I found the one thing I can do that was the whole

[A]

scam here was to get you here so you could write my. No. But I want to know about your relationship with scams. And lately on the show, I've been asking my guests their opinions, Their expert opinions on three random topics. And I want to know for each topic, Is it a scam to you? Is it a scheme to you? Or is it a real thing? So is it a scam, a scheme, or a real thing? The first one is tax accountants scam, scheme, or real thing? And I will define that. A scam is like, inarguably a grift. A scheme is a little scammy, but legitimate. And then a real thing obviously is a real thing.

[B]

I would say if you make over $5 million a year, it's a scam.

[A]

Ooh.

[B]

And then not the rich person getting scammed. It's. It's all of us, everyone else getting scammed. Oh, I knew where you were going under that. I'd say a real thing.

[A]

Oh, it is a scam when you get richer because then it's harder to tax you.

[B]

Yeah, it's impossible.

[A]

And the IRS is criminally underfunded. And like, when you get so rich that you could just send u haul trucks to the IRS and be like, try to find the needle in the haystack.

[B]

Yep. You send a thousand pages of documents, all reporting losses. That is a total scam.

[A]

I am so poor. Don't look at me on my yacht. I'm Poor.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

This is my poverty yacht. I'm so poor, I have to live on water.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

I can't even afford land.

[B]

Yeah. I'm always floating back and forth.

[A]

I have to be in Greece. There's nowhere else I can go.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because of my poverty.

[B]

Also, if you have to send your money to another country on one stop, then that means that you're a scam.

[A]

Honestly, a dream of mine.

[B]

For your money to live somewhere else.

[A]

Oh, yes. I'm trying to get to Switzerland. I'm definitely trying to get to the Caymans. I remember visiting the Cayman Islands, and I think that they're probably the least friendly tourist spot in the islands in that area. And I was always wondering why. And then I was like, oh. Cause they don't need tourism that bad. They have everyone hiding their money there. They were like, listen, little white girl, we not gonna braid your hair and put puka shells in it. We don't give a fuck.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

And I love that for them.

[B]

Yeah. They have no kids clubs there. There's no. Yeah, they don't give a shit.

[A]

Kids fuck your kids.

[B]

Yeah, that's right.

[A]

But not your kids, Justin.

[B]

No, mine too. Let's just.

[A]

Oh, my goodness. Okay, my next question for you. Scam scheme. A real thing. Justin. Credit.

[B]

Oh, that's a scam. That's a total scam. Because it just preys on people who can't afford to pay off their bill every month, and then they use all that money that they get, all those late fees and stuff to, you know, subsidize all the other bullshit they do. That's a scam.

[A]

Right. And it was invented in the 80s.

[B]

Anything invented in the 80s is a scam.

[A]

Anything invented in the 80s, you know, somebody was on cocaine when they made it.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And they're like, what about this numbers? We make numbers.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And those numbers decide who we give the houses to. Hey, everybody sounds great.

[B]

That's right. In the 80s, you did cocaine. You either created Die Hard or a scam. That's it.

[A]

I would rather create Die Hard, but maybe I would love also to make a scam.

[B]

Yeah. That's just true.

[A]

It might be the best time for scams. I mean, Madoff was doing well in the 80s, you know.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And he made off with everybody's money.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

So maybe I. I happen to agree with you on that for sure. The last question. Scam scheme. Real thing, love.

[B]

Oh, real thing. Oh, yeah, that's right. That's right. It's a real Thing doesn't mean we all get it, but it's a real thing.

[A]

Damn. Maybe you can't have none, but Justin over here saying, like, it's real. Y' all don't know about it, but I do.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Oh, that's beautiful. Why do you think so?

[B]

I've been happily married and in real love for. Well, I should know this if I'm happily married. 16 years.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And I 100% feel it's a real thing.

[A]

16 years.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

That is a long time.

[B]

It is a long time. It does feel like a long time. We were at a wedding and they do that thing where it's like, oh, if you've been on the. Been married more than five years, get off the dance floor. You know, to see. And they keep going up and up every year. And I was like, damn, we're one of the last ones here.

[A]

I actually love that. And perhaps if I ever trick someone into getting the government involved in a relationship with me, I will do that. Because I inadvertently actually did that for my friend Taylor Mishax. I was making cards for, like. I did this, like, whole wedding decoration in her trailer and stuff. Because while we were shooting Going Dutch the first season, she had to fly home, get married, and fly back. And so her husband came with her on the way back. But we obviously, you know, when you book a flight, you'll book a job. And sometimes I guess when you book a wedding, you'll book a job.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

And she was like, this venue is way too expensive. Y' all gonna have to move some stuff around so I could at least get. So they gave her, like, an extended weekend. So I decorated her trailer and got a bunch of, like, bridal stuff and gifts and things. But then when I asked people to sign cards, I had three different cards. There was one for the cast, there was one for the crew, and then there was one for anybody who had been married over 10 years.

[B]

And how many was that? Was that like a large section or was it. You're surprised to find not a ton

[A]

of it was, but it was funny. Cause I had to do what your friends did at their wedding where it's like, if you've been married for five years, get off the dance floor. I had to literally hold the card up to people and be like, hey, how long have you been married? Okay, sign this one, not that one. Mm. But then for, like, people who had long lasting marriages, like, sign this one with.

[B]

So were they signing or were they writing a little message Too.

[A]

They were writing a little message.

[B]

So what group wrote the best messages?

[A]

Oh, it was absolutely the people who had been over married over 10 years. Joe Morton wrote the best mess. Like, he's just a poet and a genius and a savant. He doesn't really watch tv, he just lives life.

[B]

That's shocking. I can't do that.

[A]

I can't either. I love tv.

[B]

Me too.

[A]

He's like doing falconry and I'm like, you sure you don't want this vpn? Cause even though we in Ireland, we can tell everybody we in New Jersey. So you can download these shows. Yeah, my bad. I did watch a lot of Abbott from New Jersey.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, that's right. Listen, any way we can get it?

[A]

Okay. I think it still counted as a stream.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, it counts. I think I still see something from it.

[A]

Oh, my goodness. Well, thank you. I love those opinions. Have you ever been scammed, Justin?

[B]

I'm sure many, many times I've been part of scams. Oh, yes, yes, I. Wow.

[A]

You jumped from victim to participant real quick.

[B]

I know, I know. I was sometimes. One time I used to work at an Internet company, this company called Break.com, which doesn't exist anymore. It's like a video sharing company, maybe, Remember? No. And yeah, that's probably better.

[A]

But you started by calling it an Internet company, which already told me it was a scam.

[B]

Yeah, right, right, right.

[A]

Dot com.

[B]

Yeah. And they would be like, coca Cola would like want to place their ad on the video page. And they would promise, they'd say, okay, you're going to get 100,000 views and you pay us money for those. A hundred thousand views guaranteed. But what we would do on our side is we would go to. We had to deal with this super nasty porn site. And on their site, super nasty porn is crazy. That's right.

[A]

Porn itself already sounds badass.

[B]

That's right. I felt necessary to clarify. That's what this porn site was. It wasn't just one of your mom and pop porn sites?

[A]

No, no, no, no, no.

[B]

One of your nice down the middle porn sites. This was nasty.

[A]

This wasn't your suburban porn site. This was super nasty.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

And so y' all had a deal with them?

[B]

Yeah. And so what we do is on their page, on their site, it would be like gang bang of four chicks and two. Like, whatever. And it'd have a thumbnail of that. But then when their users would click it, it'd be like, coca Cola, the brand, blah, blah, blah. And so. And Then it would. We'd get all these views, right? You'd get like a. Because nobody's gonna actually click on a Coca Cola ad. But they will if they think it's a gang bang. And so my job was to put that video up and then send it to the porn company.

[A]

Not the gang bang video, the Coca Cola.

[B]

I didn't put up the gang bang video. I was on the A side of that.

[A]

Wow. Justin, you were the original bot.

[B]

That's right. Yes.

[A]

That's kind of botting I can appreciate now. It's just random and they're just under everything and they're saying random stuff. I would appreciate being tricked out of. You know what if my super nasty porn affliction ended because of a Coca Cola?

[B]

You think we brought people to the

[A]

light because, ah, this is how I stopped doing super nasty porn watching.

[B]

I'm going to say they weren't holding that when they clicked the ad. They were holding something else. But it was. Yeah. So then actually the way we got caught. And by the way, it wasn't my idea. I was just pushing the buttons. But the way we got caught is the, the, the company was like, hey, how come people are only watching our ad for 0.004 seconds every time they clicked on it? Because people would click it. So see, it wasn't what they thought it was.

[A]

Then click and then they went back. They weren't, they weren't coke lover.

[B]

No, no. They were or they were, but not in that way.

[A]

But not in that way or in that moment.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, wow. I mean, but, but I think that they couldn't get upset about that because this to me, like it is scamming the, the, the nasty porn watchers. But for the company who paid for the advertisement, they got the views.

[B]

That's true.

[A]

I don't think you finish your session and then all of a sudden you're jonesing for an ice cold coke.

[B]

Maybe people are. Nobody's in a better spot to take in advertising than maybe the person who clicked on that ad. Like they're susceptible to anything in that moment. They're really open.

[A]

They are really open. And in more ways than one.

[B]

The jerk off demographic is really underutilized.

[A]

Honestly, if someone advertised to me while I had my cootie out. Yeah, that's, that's like memorable. That's a memorable experience. I'll never forget it because I'm very vulnerable in that moment. I'm going to remember everything.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You got your lotion and your tissue and you and you and, and What? Maybe you're in the bathroom hiding from your face. Adrenaline is up.

[B]

You're going to remember. Yeah. You're going to know. And then afterwards, you're going to want maybe a Coca Cola.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. So maybe you're right. You know, maybe it wasn't a scam. Maybe this all legit.

[A]

I mean, I think Break.com was. Was giving everybody a break.

[B]

They were, you know, until they went out of business.

[A]

But, yeah, I think we should bring them back.

[B]

It is the business model there for sure.

[A]

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[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I'm like, who is bonding over this? Who finishes whatever they're doing to themselves? And then it's like, I need to leave a comment.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I have thoughts.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. That I couldn't keep to myself, that I needed other people to know. Also, when you finish doing that, the ability to do anything usually is pretty tough. So the vagina. Right.

[A]

Which makes me think these are like, super type A people.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Who, like, maybe schedule their diddling in their day. And there's like, time to diddle. All right. Seven minutes out the window. Time for me to leave a response.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I really enjoyed this video. I thought we got great. To the point.

[B]

I think it's people on both ends of the productivity spectrum. It's the people who probably don't get anything done an entire day and the people who are like the CEOs of companies.

[A]

You're absolutely right. I think it's exactly that. It's how they always say that if you are miserable, you either have not enough money or way too much.

[B]

Yeah, that's right. Yeah. If you're leaving a comment on a porn video. Yeah. You're too much time. Or not enough.

[A]

Or not enough.

[B]

Yeah. Sometimes I think about this one comment I saw once on a porn video, and it just said, hey, great job.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

And I thought, wow, they. I like. I was like, they must think that the. The person in the porn went back and I guess read the comments.

[A]

They might have people look at their views and people, like, you know, want to make sure that they're so spreading, you know, the disseminating, the work, the products. Oh, my gosh, I sound like such a prude. But the work. The pornographic cinema.

[B]

Pornographic cinema, yes.

[A]

No, but I think that's lovely. You did say, Justin there, that love is not a scam. That was very sweet of them to say. Good job, guys.

[B]

You know, might have cheered up that person. They were having a tough day. They went and looked at the comment section of the porn that they're in. Yeah. You know what?

[A]

You guys get on Apple podcasts and leave me a good cheer. Five stars. Okay. Break.com isn't here anymore.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But if it was, I. I would advertise on it. I. I would love for it to be like, nasty sex binge before it. Scam goddess. And then maybe you would listen to the podcast afterwards. But let's get into my favorite segment here. Historic Hoodwinks. This is where I will regale Justin with a famous con caper scheme. Maybe It's a group of criminals, a single actor, a couple we don't know yet. And we'll get his opinions all. So today, keeping up on our dad theme, because we've talked about all the things that dads love.

[B]

Yeah, we got porn. And then I think something else.

[A]

Coca Cola. Love being tax accountants.

[B]

It really is a dad centric start to this.

[A]

Making up credit in the 80s. Definitely someone's father. So we're talking about a suburban dad and aspiring musician Mike Smith, who made $10 million by creating thousands of fake listeners. Was he also a break? A break dot com. Justin, was this you? No, no, I'm playing. I'm playing.

[B]

Wow. I was.

[A]

Were you Latino?

[B]

No, but I wish I could pull off that hat.

[A]

I don't know, Justin. It's giving. You might have had a tan and you was. Had some biceps.

[B]

That is the best I've ever looked. By the way, why every photo musician, they can never look at the camera. It's always, like, off into the distance.

[A]

Honestly, musicians are the only people who can get away with fedoras. It's still icky. It's still icky. But when a musician wears it, it's like, oh, are you Santana? Like, we'll let this happen. Other than that, stop wearing them. Especially if you're approaching people for threesomes. I told y', all, it's always a really beautiful woman who approaches me and a man in a fedora in the corner like, yes. And I'm like, no, her, sure. You know?

[B]

Well, that's how he's got to send her over.

[A]

Yeah, but also, he could not wear the fedora.

[B]

Yeah, but I feel like once you're into threesomes, you have to have some kind of hat. You can't. You can't just have your regular hairstyle.

[A]

But I feel like that's not the hat that convinces me you're good at threesomes.

[B]

I don't know why I'm defending this hypothetical guy. The threesomes. I'm not. But I'm bald, and I like hats.

[A]

I like hats, too. But I also love that he's posed in front of this graffiti wall holding his guitar, looking like he's midstrom. It's really giving. It's giving Jason Mraz. It's giving Jason Mraz. Yeah, I agree, Jess. It's also giving Jason Derulo. I feel like he could do a flip. Look at all that white he got on. You know he can do a flip.

[B]

Has he got a vest on, too?

[A]

Mm. A white vest over a white T shirt with white pants. Is that not Jason Derulo? Okay, I bet you we could do a flip. And the fedora stays on.

[B]

See, that's the kind of guy I want in a threesome.

[A]

Okay, okay, okay, now you're. Don't make me like that now. If I get into the situation, Justin, I'm going to call you like this. I didn't. I can't believe

[B]

happened. You did a flip right in front of me. Now all three of us are naked

[A]

and the hat was on. And I was like, okay, give me your hotel room key. I'll come. Okay, I'll be there. So this suburban and aspiring musician, Mike smith, he made $10 million by creating thousands of fake listeners to stream his also fake music so he could rake in the royalties. So Mike was a dad in his 40s who wore tight shirts and owned a chain of urgent care facilities.

[B]

Oh, man, that was not where I thought that was going. Wow.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Anybody? Anywhere but there.

[A]

Oh, you didn't think we're gonna go for.

[B]

I didn't think it was gonna go to urgent care. No. Tight shirts and also rescued dogs. Right?

[A]

Like, I. I don't know if I want tight shirts that I'm like, I think I have strip and then just the tightest shirted. Man.

[B]

This is such a specific kind of person in their 40s. Really, though, as a man in my 40s, you have to make the decision that you're never gonna wear anything super tight again. You have to.

[A]

I know you have a good bod.

[B]

I don't, but thank you.

[A]

I know you do some type of recreational sport. What is it?

[B]

No, I don't know. It mostly just looks like I have cancer, but I. But I don't. And I appreciate and support everyone who does, but I don't. But I look like I do. And so that's why I wouldn't wear it. That's why if something looks tight on me, it's simply just because I'm deathly skinny. But this man, I think he obviously works out probably no more than two days a week. But none of them are leg day.

[A]

No, no, no. You know those calves are skinty.

[B]

Yeah, they are. But I think he, like, feels good enough to try to wear that tight shirt. And I think as a guy in your 40s, you have to just transition out of this shirt.

[A]

I mean, there are people who accept that they're in their 40s and they hang out with people of their own age and their own ilk because they enjoy the camaraderie of talking about Things with people your own age. And like, my little sister moved to Los Angeles to go to grad school. And I realized, like. Cause I was like, oh, I was, I was going out of town again to shoot. Going Dutch in Ireland. I do that for like four months a year. And I was like, oh, I don't know anybody. Like, I need to find some friends for her because I'm gonna be gone and I don't want her to be alone. And so then I started thinking, like, who are my friends in their early to mid-20s? And I was like, I don't know anybody in their early to mid 20s. I literally had to ask friends and then be like, can your cousin. You wanna do a cousin date with my sister so they can meet? And they could, they could be friends. Like, I didn't know anybody. But that guy, that guy in that tight ass shirt, he knows all the people in their 20s and probably some club promoters still.

[B]

Yeah. And that's probably really problematic. I don't know that he's probably had one good interaction with one person in their 20s.

[A]

I don't know. Sometimes when I was in college there would be an old person and like there was this, this football player who. Ex football player who owned a chain of check cashing places.

[B]

Well, I see, I didn't think I was going there either. Wow.

[A]

And that's the same with him. He's a tight shirted man who owns some urgent care. So maybe that's the formula is you gotta have one thing that don't go with the other and then you stay in the pocket. And he was in his 50s, he would take us to the clubs, he would take us everywhere. And you know, one time he did trip and fall. And that's when I really realized how old he was. Because when he tripped and fell, like we were all out and drinking and stuff. But if it had been a younger person tripping and falling, I think we all would have laughed and been like, oh, bitch, get up. The gasp and the silence when this old man fell, we was like, oh my God, is he gonna die? Is he dead?

[B]

By the way, that was his nightmare because he would have felt so much better if everyone laughed. But the fact that you were seriously concerned about his health, that's what that. Nothing is more sobering than people recognizing

[A]

how old you are when you start tripping and people are concerned if you're okay and not making fun of you. Yeah, you turned a corner, you've turned a corner. And so, you know, he got the tight shirts on, he's got the urgent care. And this is when he decided to start self rising or self financing a rise to music stardom, because tight shirts and urgent care were not enough for him. So he lived in a big house in Charlotte, North Carolina, with his six kids and wife until that stopped inspiring him and he got a divorce.

[B]

I didn't know we had to be inspired to stay married.

[A]

I mean, you've been married for 16 years. I think you've been inspired.

[B]

I guess that's true.

[A]

You're right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And Mike said, I'm not inspired by my family no more. Y' all ain't got the Riz no more.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

They stopped wearing tight shirts. It's like, I'm outta here, you fruit of the little ass bitches. I can't be with you no more. So he reconnected with and married his college girlfriend, which reminded him how much he liked a jam session back in college.

[B]

You're describing the saddest man in the world.

[A]

He should have stayed with his family.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because he went and married somebody who encouraged his corniness. And I'm sure his friend in college, who is unmarried at this age, was like, you know what? He got them urgent cares. I'm gonna ignore the fact that his nipples are rock hard in every room we go into, because I need financial stability in a person of my own age. And then she was like, yeah, baby, get. Get back into jamming.

[B]

Ugh. Man, nothing.

[A]

Do the garage.

[B]

No one's ever been more divorced than this guy.

[A]

This is.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

That does feel like a divorced man's hobby.

[B]

Yeah. No one jams. But divorced dads, they're the only people who jam.

[A]

Divorced dads jam. And dads who have been married and, you know, for, like, 40 years, they put, like, together boats and bottles.

[B]

Yes. Yeah. And intricate train sets.

[A]

Intricate train sets.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yes. And that gives them the thrill up their leg that they need. So he knew how to play the guitar. Banjo, piano, drums, bass, mandolin, and the dulcimer. Wow.

[B]

I've never heard of that.

[A]

I don't know if I've heard that in my ear or heard of it at all. And he always thought that he could be a star. So this newly. Oh, God, Justin, don't laugh at him.

[B]

I'm sorry. Keep going.

[A]

He could be a star, Justin.

[B]

He could. You're right.

[A]

So this newly divorced boy used the money from his medical business to fail his music career because he thought treatment, treating people for ailments, that wasn't enough for the world. He said, fuck that. I actually need y'. All my music is gonna heal y' all even more. Yeah, even more.

[B]

Not my urgent care.

[A]

No, no, no, no.

[B]

That's gonna rack up the bills to pay for this.

[A]

He decided he was the Patch Adams of music. Say all y' all need is a little music. Y' all gonn. So Mike linked up with a music publicist named hey. Best known for promoting. Wait, what his name was hey. This is hey.

[B]

Yeah. That is absolutely. Hey.

[A]

He looks like. Hey.

[B]

Yeah. He looks like he's made of hay. Yeah.

[A]

Like, this is the straw man.

[B]

When has this guy ever been introduced into a story and things got better?

[A]

Why do I feel like I'm on, like, the wizard of Oz? Like, we've got Mike. He's Dorothy in the two tight shirts. We've got. Maybe he's given me, like, the Cowardly

[B]

Lion a little bit.

[A]

Cowardly lion or Scarecrow?

[B]

Yeah. Oh, yeah, you're right. Scarecrow. Little of both.

[A]

He's given Scarecrow as well. And Hay was best known for promoting a false rumor that Rihanna had hooked up with Jay Z to boost attention for her 2004 song Pon de Replay.

[B]

He is famous for that.

[A]

Yeah, he's a famous industry liar.

[B]

Wow, I didn't know that you could, like, is that a business?

[A]

I mean, what is Perez Hilton?

[B]

Oh, yeah, but. But this guy just did it once.

[A]

That's what TMZ used to be, and now they want to be real journalists.

[B]

Yeah, you're right.

[A]

TMZ knows if you're dead before you do.

[B]

I hope so.

[A]

We used to not trust them, and now when they pop up, I'm like,

[B]

now they're the most trusted. I'm like, I'll wait to see what TMZ says.

[A]

That's how you know our news outlets are fucked by the government. When you're like, I'll wait to see what TMZ says. And sadly, that is a real thing. In my brain, I kept seeing rumors that Erica Kirk was at Coachella, and I was like, mm, I'll wait to see if Tim Z has a video before I believe this. So SMH Records. Shaking my head is what that sounds like to me. But in this case, it's Mike. And, hey, I don't know what the S stands for. We'll find out. They started a music label called SMH Records and plan to work their way through the industry as producers, while also making Mike himself a star. Mike had the money to open the label, sign artists, and produce their albums because, remember, he left people who needed healthcare behind.

[B]

Yeah, sure. As we all do as a country.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

To make money being a star.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Yes. And this is SMH Records social media page.

[B]

It's pretty sparse.

[A]

Yeah. And y' all need to get my King Sway off of here. Okay. Get him off of here. Don't do my king like that, TI he belongs on this page. That makes sense to me. Is that. What's that old man's name? The light skinned one who's old. People are gonna get really mad about this. Not Mr. Worldwide.

[B]

Mr. Worldwide.

[A]

No, he's a old. Like a Motown crooner with light green eyes who had a weird sex album recently. But he's in his 80s.

[B]

Oh, damn.

[A]

I know. Somebody is screaming right now. Smokey Robinson.

[B]

Wait, he has a show here? He does.

[A]

Smokey Robinson has a show here?

[B]

It's a channel. Smokey's Soul something or other. Yeah. And he hosts a channel on SiriusXM. Wow. That's our co worker.

[A]

Y' all listen to Smokey Soul.

[B]

And we brought him up because we love him.

[A]

Yeah. And it might get weirdly horny, but don't. Don't worry about that.

[B]

There's not another way to get horny in your 80s. It's only weirdly horny.

[A]

Yeah. But I'm happy for them because I hope to be weirdly horny in my 80s. So SMH got a distribution deal with Capitol Records subsidiary, and a Universal Music executive left a senior vice president position to be their chief operating officer. So they got some real backing behind this.

[B]

And with these, like, meetings that they were taking with Hay and the other guy.

[A]

Yeah, Mike and Hay. And maybe S. Maybe it's. Is that S? We don't know who S is that S. So Mike and Hay made two albums together. One was called Fear of a Pink Planet.

[B]

Is. Is that about women?

[A]

Maybe. Yeah, maybe that would be a good incel bop.

[B]

That feels like a good incel. That's like a clavicular bop. Like, that's.

[A]

And it was inspired. Like, it was credited to this group called Pink Grenade, which also feels like men being afraid of. Like, what if a coochie was a bomb?

[B]

Well, what if it was a bomb?

[A]

That's what women leadership feels like to them.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, no. We have a coochie bomb, boss. Oh, no. And then they had another album called When Music Worlds Collide, which is not as catchy.

[B]

No, the other one was catchier.

[A]

Yeah. Fear of a Pink Planet. I might tune in.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But When Music Worlds Collide feels bad and accredited to Mike and Hay. And the Bay Area hip hop artist DJ King tickets.

[B]

So that's not one of the Bay Area hip hop artists I've heard of.

[A]

No, I have not heard of King taek.

[B]

It goes E40 and then DJ artists.

[A]

Then it goes DJ King Tech.

[B]

Yes. Those are the top two Bay Area artists.

[A]

I. I would throw it.

[B]

Oh, gosh. Too short.

[A]

Too short. And you, you can't forget what's his face with the pant. Hammer. MC Hammer.

[B]

Oh, that's. That's true. I think he certainly wouldn't forget it. Yeah.

[A]

No. And I'm scared of him. People don't know. Don't let them funny fool you. That man was a gangster.

[B]

Is that true?

[A]

Yes. And very feared and respected.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

You're being serious?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Look it up.

[A]

MC Hammer, was he. He was out here at Hammer time. But then everywhere else, they were like, it's the Hammer Run. Like, yeah.

[B]

That's like hearing, like, Mickey Mouse people up. Like, that's crazy. Wow.

[A]

It is comical. That's why I love that sketch in the Chappelle show where it was Wayne Brady. And he was like, it's Wayne Brady. And everybody's like, it's Wayne Brady run away. Like, wow.

[B]

I didn't know that.

[A]

So both of these albums had tons of features, including one from Parliament Funkadelic drummer Jerome Braley, and uncredited monologue from Johnny Depp on one song. Johnny Depp went on there and did a monologue.

[B]

Did he know he was doing it? Like, did they take it from a movie or. He actually went on and just did a monologue.

[A]

You know, sometimes in our careers, sometimes you just show up places and they tell you you're gonna get money, and then you just. You just do it. One time I was on camera, they were like, we'll give you $5,000 to open this ruler. And I was broke at the time. I don't know how I got this job. And I thought maybe they was gonna kill me when I went and. But I was like, gotta risk it. And I went and they just wanted me to comically open some very complicated science thing for a tech conference. So it's probably to be like, look at this hot dummy who can't understand this complicated ruler. Look at her, how dumb and hot and on TV she is, man. I was the only one who did it. Cecily Strong did it too. They did it.

[B]

You both opened. You both opened for this tech company?

[A]

Yeah, it was filmed. It only took 30 minutes.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And I don't know what they did with it.

[B]

I gotta get a new agent.

[A]

It's probably on nasty porn.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

I'm right in front of a Coke commercial right now.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Robbery. This podcast is supported by Ring with Ring. It's protected. Keep track of packages and see more at the front door with battery doorbell. Make sure your yard is safe at night with their outdoor cam plus that delivers a wide field of view and enhanced video clarity with retinal 2K video and upgrade to 4K cameras and doorbells featuring retinal vision that give you ultra clear footage and let you zoom in without losing important details. I love to order a package. I love the feeling in my stomach when something new in the mail. But we all know that it's scamming season four times a year. Yes, that's all year round. So having a ring protector doorbell keeps your packages safe because now the scammers do see the ring and they will let go of that thing and move on to the next house. Okay. And also what I love about it is for me personally, sometimes I get a food delivery driver who's not followed the instructions. They don't knock, they don't ring the doorbell. But you know it does always ring. Ring your door, your yard, your home with Ring. It's protected shop cameras, doorbells and more. Right [e-mail] Chime is changing the way people bank. With fee free banking built for you, no overdraft and monthly fees, thousands of fee free ATMs and members can benefit from up to $1,150 in annual rewards. With a Chime card you get 5% cash back in a category of your choice like gas, hello, groceries and savings faster with a 3.75% APY that's nine times higher than the national average. Chime is not just smarter banking, it is the most rewarding way to bank. Join the millions who are already banking fee free today. Head to chime.com goddess that's chime.com goddess it only takes a few minutes to sign up. Chime is a fine tech, not a bank. Banking services for Chime card provided by Chime's bank partners. Optional products and services may have fees or charges. Stated annual percentage yield and cash back for Chime prime only. No minimum balance required. For more information on APY rates go to chime.com disclosers nobody wants to work anymore. Okay, that's my best Kim K Vocal fry But Kim may be right in some respects. But according to the cnbc, nearly half of hiring managers say candidates enthusiasm about the job is the most important factor when considering them for a role so if you need to hire for Your business business, ZipRecruiter is the perfect place to separate candidates from who are really excited about the opportunity. And those who are like, I'mma just clock in and imma go home. And now you can try it for [e-mail] Goddess ZipRecruiter's new feature puts the most interested qualified candidates at the top of your list. No wonder ZipRecruiter is the number one rated hiring site based on G2. Use ZipRecruiter and find enthusiastic talent. Four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. And now you can try it for free at ziprecruiter.com goddess that's ziprecruiter.com goddess meet your match on ZipRecruiter and Fraud. The Avila brothers, songwriters and producers best known for their work with Usher, recorded one of his songs with Billy Ray Cyrus and Snoop Dogg. That makes sense to me. Cause Snoop Dogg just be doing anything.

[B]

Yeah. He'll do whatever. Yeah.

[A]

And so the song is called Lipstick. It's a song about Kim Kardashian and features Ashley Holmes, who was famous for being one of the Real Housewives of New Jersey. And let's just hear a little bit of lipstick. Jonathan Hay and Mike Smith. Oh, lipstick pink grenade.

[B]

Hey.

[A]

I hope my mom don't hear this song. I know you want my lipstick on your dipstick. What? Better than your stupid hoes? Mac on my face I'm rocking diamonds on my toes. They also doing foot fetish stuff.

[B]

There's a ton of foot fetish in this.

[A]

She got nothing. The way I turn you on. Oh, and she's licking a white phallus. Okay.

[B]

Wow, that's. Yeah. Is that what you did for the tech company?

[A]

I know you want your roller in my fool.

[B]

It's a little bit of the, like, lil mama lip gloss.

[A]

Yeah, my lip gloss is popping. Maybe that's what they were going for.

[B]

But it's all about sucking a dick.

[A]

Dipstick. Which.

[B]

Yeah. Which is like a. Nobody even says that. Where that's like, oh, yeah, 1940s dipstick. Like, that's. Nobody uses that. It's hilarious.

[A]

And it's meant to be grotesque, but it's actually kind of, like, funny.

[B]

Why is she stepping on lipstick over and over again?

[A]

Because she's gonna put it on her toes so she can put the toes on the dipstick.

[B]

Has a music video ever been made for less than.

[A]

They cut back to the shot several Times.

[B]

Yeah, there was. It's literally taking place in, like, one room. In one part of one room. Like, the other part of the room is probably, like, people in cubicles.

[A]

Like, it's right. And you're so right about Dipstick being so outdated. It's giving, like, I know you want my pouch on your paddy whacker tonight. Like, what are we doing and why?

[B]

So they wrote this?

[A]

I would hope so.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So now, if only Mike's music had been good, this system would have worked. We have another song that we wanna show you, Justin, if you're okay with it.

[B]

Please.

[A]

It's called let's Take it Naked. Maybe it's better the song is Crashing My computer.

[B]

Hold on. Here we go.

[A]

Okay, this starts with, due to our strong personal convictions, we wish to stress that this film in no way endorses a belief in the Illuminati.

[B]

I've never seen a warning like that before.

[A]

It's like the beginning of a VHS tape.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

Oh, it's her again. Okay. It's a lot of cocaine.

[B]

Yeah. So much cocaine.

[A]

But, like, not in the way that you would think people would do cocaine.

[B]

No, it's like he's doing cocaine with a crazy straw, though. Like a straw from a children's birthday. He grabbed to then do cocaine. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

To do cocaine.

[B]

It's like, come into Swensons and have our big Sunday straw.

[A]

We don't need to see any more of let's Take it Naked. It's actually crashing our computer, which makes sense. It's so bad, it's imploding things. So let's get to the rap reality competition show. You knew that was coming up next, right, Justin? Absolutely, Mike. And hey, have to.

[B]

Does the Zeus Network come up anywhere in this, Betty?

[A]

It's terrible for the world. Obviously, I've seen it.

[B]

I have to say, Quinta Brunson will not let me watch anything on the Zeus network. She's banned me from looking at it.

[A]

Yeah, you know what? And I appreciate that Quinta did that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, we both worked on a black lady sketch show. That's how we met. And she's protecting you from a gaze that only black people should see.

[B]

She said that I shouldn't see it.

[A]

It's shameful. And we don't need you to think about any of us that way. Too many way flying. And all they do is give them ladies tequila and the occasional Dorito and tell them to street fight. And I feel like now I'm selling it.

[B]

Yeah, you just did the worst job of not getting people to watch the Zeus network.

[A]

I'm gonna admit it. I do. I've seen the things, but for me, it's cathartic. Cause I was like, if my acting career ever or any of my performing careers went south, I feel like I could get on baddies. Yeah, I'd be okay.

[B]

Can you slap the shit out of someone?

[A]

Oh, that wouldn't be my role. I feel there's no one on that show who, like, it's, like, very prideful to, like, win a fight and stand on business.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I feel like I could sit on shenanigans and I could run away. Like, every fight would just be me running away. Like, no. And if they happen to catch me, I'd be like, ow, ow, my body, ow. I feel like that would be good for me. So the rap reality competition show. This is where Mike continues to pour money into his dreams. Even though these songs were objectively terrible and somewhat terrifying, so. And they don't even turn to be good bad, they're just bad.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So next, he fully self financed a rap reality competition show called One Shot. He made it himself with no network attached in 2014. And we have a little bit of the trailer of One Shot. I'm guessing that Eminem was popping and he was like, you only get one shot.

[B]

Yeah. We set up one stage

[A]

with one

[B]

chance to impress our celebrity judges, not a woman. Each week, MCs move on. One will go home with 100k and a record deal. The others just go home.

[A]

Sway, King Crooked and King Texas. Did that man break his neck?

[B]

Round one, undisputed king of the mic, DJ Khaled. This is start of them fulfilling three

[A]

eyes who will make their one shot count.

[B]

This is reality. This is our life.

[A]

One Shot premieres 27th September at 7 on BET. On BET. I knew I had heard of One Shot. God damn it. It got me.

[B]

By the way, that is a who's who of people who will do anything for money. That is like DJ Khaled. Yeah. DJ Khaled.

[A]

I feel like, Justin, when you're writing the eulogy for my funeral, we can definitely get DJ Khaled on the mic to say, we the best.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Or we was the best. Heavy on the was.

[B]

We could. Yes, we can get Ti there too.

[A]

Oh, for sure. You can die whenever you like. Yeah, we. Yep, yep, we got it. We got a whole lineup coming. So Mike and his main collaboration, Crooked Ting Keck and Sway Calloway. Oh, my God, Sway. They held these nationwide auditions and they got TI RZA, the Game, Tech9, Twista and DJ Khaled to do the guest hosting. Crooked says that they filmed nearly 80% of the show themselves and used that footage to create a sizzle reel and sold it to BET before completing the production. She bet was like, yes, we love these shenanigans. For the winner of one shot, they promised $100,000 in a deal with SMH Records.

[B]

Oh, God.

[A]

The coveted. So because he paid for it, Mike got seated at the judge's table. Though he's barely in the trailer, and it's often unclear why he's on the show at all. He wanted to be in front of the camera as well. There he is in the corner, not wearing his fedora, but definitely looking out of place.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, no, he does. I mean, that's a pretty motley crew.

[A]

But you know what? He probably took inspiration from Diddy because Diddy used to always be in his artist's music videos unnecessarily, and everyone had a problem with it. Like, that was the thing that Suge Knight talked about. He was like, if you don't want your producer in your music video, come to Death Row record. They knew he was a menace for a long time. So around the time the production on the show started, Mike and Hay got in a fight. Hayes started to suspect that his buddy's finances were not all in order. He and other SMH employees sent their business associates a 111 page document accusing Mike of financial mismanagement. Mike replied alled with one sentence. How would you reply, Justin?

[B]

Wow.

[A]

To your business partner who's now outed you to the entire company saying that you're mismanaging finances? What's one sentence that would just shut it all down?

[B]

I mean, did he reply with his bank statement?

[A]

Wow, Justin, you're a real class act. He said, you got a tiny penis.

[B]

Oh, well, that's the next best thing. Yeah, you got. I like. They call it a penis. You got a tiny penis.

[A]

His words for phalluses are interesting. Dipstick.

[B]

Dipstick Schlong. Like, this dude has never referred to a dick.

[A]

No. He's never sexted.

[B]

No. No. Or he has, but he's. It's ended very quickly.

[A]

I'd love to be the speculum in your pap smear. Like, I feel like it's like when we found out Prince Charles was calling Camilla, talking about, I'd love to be your tampon. It's giving that, like. Sir. What?

[B]

Check out my hard wean. Oh, wieners. Terrible. Yeah, that's right.

[A]

Wiener's Awful. So the show aired its only season shocker on BET in 2016, which feels too close to the present, even though it's 10 years ago. It didn't turn Mike into a star, but at least he made up with his friend. Hey. And they kept trying. So the friend just had it. Yeah, no, they made up.

[B]

Good. I'm glad.

[A]

He said you had a tiny penis. What?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. You had a. How do you think they had a real heart to heart after that?

[A]

Love is real.

[B]

See, Justin?

[A]

Love is real. So let's get to the fake listeners that sparked all of this. In 2017, Mike started to use fake email addresses to create bot accounts on streaming platforms that could play his music on repeat. Now he started to get some traction with the royalties. The bot account started running up the streams. At one point, he had 1040 accounts, each one streaming approximately 636 songs a day, with his music accruing about 661,440 streams a day. And the average royalty per stream was half a cent.

[B]

Whoa.

[A]

So, yeah, this is back. Yeah. So Mike estimated he was earning about 3,370 a day.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

So like $99,216 a month and over 1.2 million a year.

[B]

Damn.

[A]

Yeah. This is making me think differently about dips. Should we write a song?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Pattywhacker, yeah.

[B]

Pattywhackers, we have you stepping on lipstick.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Something in that area.

[B]

Yeah. This feels like I've turned a corner on this guy. I feel like this doesn't seem like someone with a tiny penis to me at all. No.

[A]

Or maybe.

[B]

Yeah. Or maybe the tiniest penis is busy to.

[A]

Yeah. He needs to distract from the penis.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's constantly calling to him, like, make more money.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, I'll get bigger. Yeah, I'll never be big. Make us my 20 as you can.

[A]

And then they'll think I'm big.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So between 2017 and 2024, he had as many as 10,000 active bot accounts streaming the music. 2018, he and his boy hey released Tiny penis. Hey released the jazz album. They've moved on to jazz. They love negro genres. Really? They're trying them all. They're like, black people have been very successful at this. We can't do hip hop. Let's try jazz. A Scooby bop bopidy. And it hit number one on the Billboard chart. Their jazz albums. What? Yeah. But the next week, it wasn't on the chart at all. There were no tweets or online comments about the songs. On the album, Hay looked at Spotify's dashboard for artists and saw that listeners appeared concentrated in faraway places like Vietnam.

[B]

Well, jazz is huge in Vietnam.

[A]

Oh, they love it in Vietnam. Scuba da ba ba ba ba ba Deepa Deep. Yes. That's how they won the war.

[B]

That is how they won the war. It was through jazz.

[A]

It was through jazz.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

That's what the movie La La Land is all about.

[B]

It's about how jazz won the Vietnam War. Yes. Yeah.

[A]

For the Vietnamese.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, that's right.

[A]

So that's when he started getting notices from distributors and companies that handled the licensing of indie artist music, flagging their music for streaming fraud. Meanwhile, Mike was celebrating, finally making it big. Cuz he had something on Billboard charts. They don't know how, but he did. And also it's the jazz Billboard charts. I feel like it's probably pretty easy to scoop.

[B]

It's like Branford Marsalis and no one else. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

And maybe like Miles Davis just keeps coming back off the charts.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, and then Mike, Bitches Brew just is constantly a hit, you know? Yeah. And then Mike, who? Everyone's like, mike. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it goes Miles Davis, Dizzy Gillespie. The greats. Yeah, the greats.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So Ella Fitzgerald, Mike and Mike. So Mike is celebrating, right. June of that year, he shared a photo of his Spotify stats on Instagram with 214,875 monthly listeners. And Mike loves to be specific. We've got his money down to the scent here. And he said he had more than 72,000 listeners on that specific day. And the caption was, that's crazy. And thanks to everyone who listened to listens. Truly grateful. Look how humble he is.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

He's so humble.

[B]

He's so humble.

[A]

He said, that's crazy.

[B]

Yeah. Well, you put in the work.

[A]

Yeah. That's not crime.

[B]

That's not crazy. Yeah.

[A]

Thank you for listening.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Bots. So fraud flags start popping up and Mike needed a new tactic to keep from getting caught. A billion fake streams for one song looked suspicious.

[B]

Sure. From Vietnam.

[A]

Yeah, From Vietnam, where there's like 4

[B]

million people there total.

[A]

Who love jazz.

[B]

Yeah. Who do love jazz. That's.

[A]

And they need to listen to it billions of times a day. So. But a fake. Billion fake stream spread across tens of thousands of songs is more difficult to detect. So artificial intelligence songs were still a new thing in 2018. And Mike got in early, working with the CEO of an AI music startup to create hundreds of thousands of fake songs to send to streamers. Once again, AI improving the plan.

[B]

Wow, he was really ahead of the game.

[A]

He really was. When it comes to crime, he was like, A.I. definitely a scam. Let me get involved and fast. So in 2024, Mike had made $10 million with this scheme, and that's when he finally got arrested by the FBI.

[B]

Dang. Flew too close to the sun.

[A]

Honestly, Fake. The industry, music industry, has so many scams going on.

[B]

I know. I'm like, why is he any worse than anything else?

[A]

And I would be on his side if he wasn't using AI you poisoning black people in Memphis to do Scooby bop bops from Vietnam. So we can't be serious. And now we. We have his mug shot here.

[B]

No fedora in the mug shot?

[A]

No. But he looks really alert.

[B]

Yeah, he does. He looks the most awake anyone's ever been.

[A]

This was quite the sobering experience for him because he's looking directly in the camera. It feels like the Mona Lisa of scams. Like, the eyes follow you around.

[B]

Yeah. Wow. That. Do you think they raided his house?

[A]

What were they gonna get? Probably the computers and stuff.

[B]

Yeah, maybe.

[A]

Oh, man.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And the AI songs have largely been scrubbed, but much of the music Mike released is under his own name and still wildly, like, available. The AI music startup isn't named in court documents, but it was probably booming. And that, finally, is how Mike Smith became a famous man, which is what he wanted from the start. So he got famous from being arrested for making AI music and making millions off of it.

[B]

Is he still in jail?

[A]

Well, he was arrested in 2024. Oh, yeah. So, you know, it's 2026. He made music history as the first person in the United States to face criminal charges tied to streaming fraud.

[B]

Who stole more music, him or Elvis?

[A]

Ooh, we gotta ask Drake. Mama Thornton. No, that's a ooh on the right side of history. Okay, thank you, Justin.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

You better be making a show with a black woman. That and know that Elvis was ripping off everything.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

He was a hound dog. But that was Big Mama. Honestly, I think Big Mama Thorne was the name that they gave her in Dream Girls. And that's not actually her name, but we all know where I'm getting with this. Yeah, but, yeah, so he was really thieving. Hardcore arrest documents say he fraudulently inflated his streams on platforms like Amazon Music, Apple music, Spotify, and YouTube Music. Poor guys. Poor all of them.

[B]

Think of the basics. Can anyone look out for YouTube?

[A]

Can anyone look out for Q Ball Jet? No shade.

[B]

Justin, listen. Any Kind of bald representation. I'll take it.

[A]

You got Professor X.

[B]

That's right. Yes. It's always good when Professor X is the first bald man. People think of the made up character. Think of a cool bald guy. Well, I can't think of any that are real. Let me go to Professor X.

[A]

Damn, you right. You right. I could have thought of a real bald guy. Yeah. My dads, they're bald.

[B]

Okay. That's something. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

And you're pulling it off. A lot of white people can't pull off bald.

[B]

Thank you. Yeah, I appreciate that.

[A]

It looks like you moisturize your head

[B]

a little bit too, you know, not as much as my wife would like, but some. Yeah, it's gotta do a better job.

[A]

I see a little light coming from the. Yeah, that's good. So there have been reports that Smith's music, Mike Smith, also popped up on SoundCloud. Pandora title. Now you got Beyonce.

[B]

You knew she'd make an appearance.

[A]

Honestly, Beyonce performed one of the songs. I want to hear one of the songs. Okay. Part four. Part three. No, Part three. Part three. Yeah, Part three. Give us some scam. AI so. And even boomplay, a popular streaming service in Africa. So in response to, like, Spotify said it's preventative measures, like, caught Smith early, minimizing the royalties. They paid out to just $60,000 for Smith's own music and the AI generated tracks. Now I love that Spotify is saying that they caught this early almost in a way that like, they were the fraud stoppers. But I feel like it was more that Spotify was like, we don't like to give people money, so we had to look into why we had to give him some.

[B]

That's what it was.

[A]

And stop that.

[B]

It was just red flags came up when they had to pay someone.

[A]

Yeah,

[B]

that's what it was. This has nothing to do with anything

[A]

other than that as a corporation and as corporations too, we can't be out here.

[B]

That's right. Somebody burst into someone's office and said, do you know we're paying someone like

[A]

a lot, like a wage.

[B]

Can somebody fucking stop this?

[A]

They're fucking living off this wage, bro. No, we gotta get after it.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Pandora also said that they paid out $1,500 in royalties to Smith robbing Pandora. We love them. It's. It's really quite easy to pull off this kind of scheme. You can look up videos on how to make fake music on YouTube and guides for creating bot listeners on Reddit. What's surprising is that Mike Smith is the only individual who has been caught for it. That might be because a lot of powerful businesses are also engaging in this kind of frau. Or at least benefiting from it. So there's really no reason to stop it. Mike must have pissed somebody off.

[B]

Yeah. I think it was. It just like, he didn't cut them in. It's the Mafia. It's like they didn't get their cut. It wasn't financially worth it for them.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So they went after him.

[A]

He should have just made some phone calls with some of these larger companies and made them in on the scheme.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Cause maybe this helped with quarterly reports.

[B]

Absolutely. He becomes the cfo.

[A]

Investors, like, are looking. They're like, look at our. We are in the black. And Ryan, billions of people in Thailand love our platform.

[B]

Number go up.

[A]

Number go up.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

That's probably why they're quiet about it. Number go up.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They don't care how. Number go up.

[A]

They don't care how.

[B]

Number go up who?

[A]

Number go up. Number go up.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

So the dow is at 50,000.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Why y' all worried about the war and food and the straight Hormuz and then people getting kidnapped?

[B]

All the streets, 1 50,000.

[A]

150,000. That means something to you?

[B]

We all know what that means.

[A]

We all know what that means. Every day I'm like, thinking about the Dow.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And if it's not at 50,000, I'm just.

[B]

I'm like, what's happening? Yeah.

[A]

Why am I even alive?

[B]

I don't even want to live in a world where the dow is under 50,000.

[A]

The ghetto.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Not everything else. No, no, no, no. No doubt. So streaming fraud. Some have argued that Mike Smith is actually the Robin Hood of streaming. Fr the little guy playing the same game the big labels play every day. I mean, ain't that why Drake's doing his label? Cause he said that they were streaming. They ain't like us. He said the label was running up the streams. He said, I know, because we did it with my songs. And they were like, how are you gonna sue about that? How you gonna sue when you was

[B]

like, yeah, when you're a part of the lawsuit.

[A]

Yeah, I know. Cause y' all did it to me. And I'm also been doing it to everybody else.

[B]

That's why I'm popular.

[A]

Wait, did I say no? Anyways, so label streamers and distributors and rights holders all make money on the royalty stream, whether the song and listeners are real or not. Damn. Do we all need to start making fake music.

[B]

Well, here's the thing, though, about calling him Robin Hood. There's another. The other part of Robinhood is that he gave the money to the poor.

[A]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Minor details.

[B]

Yeah. That part seems like it's missing.

[A]

But you know what? He was giving his music to the ear poor.

[B]

Oh, that's true. True. That's true for all the people who had to live in a world where. Because at that time, the dow wasn't at 50,000.

[A]

No.

[B]

So we were all leading to.

[A]

That's why he had to shut down his medical clinics.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Did he shut him down? I don't know, but it doesn't seem like.

[B]

Yeah, he's probably not also operating.

[A]

He must be getting this money from somewhere, so. But he wasn't there anymore to see him, obviously. So. In current music, like the current music economy landscape, subscription and ad dollars for music and streaming are pooled in one big pot. And royalty money is allocated based on each artist's share of the total streams. Bot streams generate money for whosever behind them and leave less in the royalty pool for others, which does not sound like Robin Hood to me. It sounds like you're robbing artists.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

You robbing the hood.

[B]

I was kind of with the scam until that part.

[A]

Yeah. Especially like smaller artists, they're already getting so little for the streams, like, so Spotify itself has been accused of doing this, Stacking their playlists with cheaply licensed music to rack up plays and take money out of the royalty pool. I'm gonna stop because every rap listen, before there was Spotify, before we had. What is the one that I'm thinking about that's like Orange Soundcloud. Before we had Spotify, before we had SoundCloud, we had rappers with CDs in the back of their trunks.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

So now maybe Spotify is just creating a space for the rappers with the CDs in the back of their trunks to get their music into the world.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, I remember, you know, walking down Hollywood Boulevard, people handing me their CDs.

[A]

Mm. I remember, like, a thing where we used to call people SoundCloud rappers.

[B]

Yeah, that's right.

[A]

Yeah. In a way, I deeply identify with that because I think starting an acting career is just like starting a rapper career. Like, we are SoundCloud rappers. I was trying to get people to come to my improv shows or watch my. Watch me in this show. I'm in it for 30 seconds at minute 1548. Don't miss it. Tonight on Fox.

[B]

Yeah, it's tough because they've given them this opportunity, but then they also pay them dog shit.

[A]

Yeah, but you know, Mike Smith was a true fraudster. Even the actual businesses he used to bankroll for his music label, reality show and fake bot streams. Oh, no. They were also a scam. And Justin, we're getting to the end. We're getting back to. To his medical businesses.

[B]

Does he end up in one of his own urgent cares?

[A]

I feel like if he did, he'd be like, get me out of here. No, get me out of here. All he got is tongue depressors and Q tips and nobody has a medical degree. Help. Well, the same year One Shot aired on bet, Mike and his company, Carolina Comprehensive Health Net. Sounds legit to me. Lots of words. Carolina, you know where you are.

[B]

Which is a place.

[A]

It's a place. And we can verify that. Comprehensive.

[B]

So they can do. They can do that.

[A]

Whatever you need.

[B]

Yeah, Health, which is being what you

[A]

want to go there to leave with.

[B]

Don't want to be sick.

[A]

No, you want health when you leave for sure.

[B]

And network, which is a lot of things together.

[A]

Things together.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

You need it.

[B]

Yeah. A comprehensive network.

[A]

They were accused of Medicare and Medicaid fraud in two separate lawsuits.

[B]

See, I didn't see that coming at all.

[A]

Whistleblowers at some of his clinics said that they were told to carry out tests and procedures that were not medically necessary and then submit false reimbursement claims.

[B]

See, this is why I always have a rule that I'm not gonna go see a doctor who's also a jazz musician.

[A]

I don't know. It might like. They can improvise.

[B]

You know what? That's true. It's the medications that they don't prescribe.

[A]

Scoop it back. Azithromycin. I don't know. It could be a thing. Thing. One of the two lawsuits claim that SMH records directly benefited from this fraud. Well, duh. By September 2015, Carolina Comprehensive Health Network. I was going to say Compromise Health Network, which is what it is now, had allegedly paid smh. So he's paying himself, Robin Peter, to pay Paul from his own businesses $150,000. In September of 20, Mike settled one of the fraud cases for $900,000, while the other one was dismissed. As for streaming fraud, Mike is out on bail and has pleaded not guilty. He could get up to 60 years in prison if convicted.

[B]

Wow, that feels like a bit much to me. 60 years.

[A]

Well, he's scheduled to be sentenced by a judge on July 29, 2026.

[B]

And that judge, Judge Branford Marsalis.

[A]

Oh, man. I hope that judge went to school at the Comprehensive University Network and that he doesn't face any jail time, because this is pretty creative. And when you think about it, like, yes, the artists are being harmed, but it's not like the music business saying harming them first. You know, that's like if you get robbed, that's like if your car gets the tires taken off of it and somebody comes in later and steals your air freshener, you know, it's like it

[B]

already wasn't a working car.

[A]

Yeah, we were more worried about the tires. So Smith. Mike. Mike Smith has also agreed to forfeit over $8 million in royalties he gained from using bots to stream, and he's gonna be paying that out from 2017 to 2024. And I bet you he's probably figured out how to get his fake AI stream so he can make the money to do so.

[B]

I'm. I. I think this guy and AI haven't seen the last of each other.

[A]

No, no. Instead of SMH, maybe it's S&P 500.

[B]

Yeah. He's ahead of his. That's right. He's just ahead of his time.

[A]

He is.

[B]

He was just, like, a click too stupid.

[A]

The only thing that I wish he would have done is, like, not use AI to make the songs. I think it's a complete waste. And. And we don't need it, but. And obviously we've covered on the show many times, so I'm not gonna hop on some soapbox at the end here, but I wish that he would have just made terrible songs all day long.

[B]

I mean, that's what everybody else does, right? Yeah. I wonder if it was just, like, the amount he needed to make in order to spread these streams across so many songs. And then finally he was just like, I can't make them fast enough.

[A]

He could have kept repeating, I want my lipstick on a dipstick.

[B]

That's true. The most remixed song of all time.

[A]

There's a jazz version.

[B]

It's great.

[A]

It's actually very classy. My Lipstick on Heels.

[B]

Wow. That's really good.

[A]

Lipstick.

[B]

Wow. I'm just floored.

[A]

It's Tuesday night. My mouth is right. I don't know. I feel like.

[B]

I feel like we put that up on Spotify and we see what happens.

[A]

I think we do. And we remix it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And we. And we also rap.

[B]

It does feel like AI Use is the real, like, shit thing he did. But, like, I mean, I don't think you, this is just a personal opinion. I, I, I generally am. Don't think you can scam up.

[A]

Whoa.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That is a huge bomb to drop at the end of this show.

[B]

I guess so. But I think it's like, like you just said earlier though, like, think about everything the music industry has done to performers. Like how, like, if you're scamming the music industry, is it really a scam if you're scamming someone more powerful than you?

[A]

So you do agree you can scam up.

[B]

I wouldn't consider it as, I mean in the technical term of scam maybe, but like in the spirit of scamming, I don't think it's a scam.

[A]

Wow, you just threw me on a roller coaster. At first I thought we were going to have to find fight and Justin, I was like, oh my God, I'm have to break his glasses, kick him a little bit.

[B]

That would be, you'd be right too.

[A]

I know that that's like a most ethereal way to say it. It's not a scam. I say scam up, but you're right, it's not a scam if you're scamming up. It's really only a scam if you're scamming down.

[B]

That's right. The power dynamics have to be taken into account.

[A]

Yes. I say that all the time, but I've never phrased it that way. And it really was a shocker. Sure, some, some people crash their cars. I'm sorry, y' all bill it to Justin's insurance. Yeah.

[B]

Which is a scam,

[A]

so. Yes, it is. But oh my goodness. Thank you so much for being here, Justin, and for offering so much.

[B]

Thank you so much for having me. This was so much fun.

[A]

And would you like to tell anyone where you can be found and where they can watch see read?

[B]

Yes. I have a novel coming out called Get Lost that comes out July 7th. I think it is a fun beach read. One of the characters is a bit.

[A]

Oh, I love a beach read.

[B]

Yeah, it's a fun kind of father daughter story. Father's a. Yeah. Kind of a big scammer, a little bit of a piece of shit. And him and his daughter have to find the missing mother.

[A]

I love that. I'm definitely going to be beach reading this.

[B]

Thank you. Yeah, I, I, I'm excited about it. And if, if you watch Abbott elementary,

[A]

if you watch Abbott, if you've heard

[B]

of it, if you watch it, please watch Abbott elementary and Harley, HBO Max. And that's all I got.

[A]

Yes, absolutely. And y', all, when you're taking Justin's book get lost to the beach, bring Scam Goddess as well. To the.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

I don't know if I'm a beach read. I might be more of a. A hospital waiting room read. You know, those wait times are long.

[B]

Yeah. My book you could read in, like.

[A]

Yeah, you get lost with some sand under your toes with Justin, and then when you get sunburned, you gotta go to urgency. Scammer Goddess. And you'll love it. You'll love it the entire way. Guys, you can watch Going Dutch streaming now on Hulu, new episodes on Thursdays, and you can watch the first season of Scam Goddess on Hulu as well. Get into that. I might have something else in store for y' all soon. Congregation, I want y' all to get out there and stay licking them dipsticks. Scam Goddess. Scam Goddess stars and is hosted by me, Lacey Moseley, AKA Scam Goddess. Our producer is Jessica Cisneros, and our audio engineer is Rich Garcia. Research for the show is conducted by Kate Doyle. Stay scheming.

[B]

Hi, I'm Jenny Slate, and believe it

[A]

or not, someone is allowing us to have a podcast.

[B]

I'm Gabe Leadman. I'm Max Silvestri, and we've been friends for 20 years. And we like to reach out to kind of get advice on how to live our lives. It's called I need you guys. Should I give my baby fresh vegetables?

[A]

Can I drink the water at the hospital?

[B]

My landlord plays the trombone and I can't ask him to stop.

[A]

You should make sure that you subscribe so that you never miss an episode. I need to go.

[B]

We are farmers, and we know a

[A]

DJ would never compromise on the bass drop. Get ready for the drop.

[B]

Get ready for the drop. Is that it?

[A]

If it's important, it's not worth compromising. With farmers, you can get quality and safety. Learn [e-mail] underwritten by Farmers, Truck or fire insurance exchanges, or affiliate products, not available in every state.