Fields of Deceit and Cons w/ Andy Richter

Summary

Scam Goddess – "Fields of Deceit and Cons" w/ Andy Richter

Podcast: Scam Goddess (Earwolf)
Host: Laci Mosley
Guest: Andy Richter
Release Date: October 21, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this lively and hilarious episode, Laci Mosley welcomes comedian and television personality Andy Richter for a deep (and deeply funny) dive into the world of scams—from their personal brushes with fraud to a wild, true historic scam involving multi-million dollar tomato and strawberry crop insurance fraud. The conversation weaves personal anecdotes, sharp comedic banter, and thoughtful reflections on systemic issues, showing both the comedic and tragic sides of scams and those who perpetrate them.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Welcoming Andy Richter and Canine Icebreakers (00:00–06:44)

• Laci gives Andy a raucous introduction, calling him an icon and listing his credits.
• Andy riffs on being humbled by the realities of dog ownership:

  "When I'm picking up dog shit, I don't feel like an icon." — Andy Richter (02:43)

• Both share about their dogs, advocating for rescue over buying pets, and expose a "youthening" scam at some shelters (shelters shaving years off dogs’ ages to make them more adoptable).

2. Scam Experiences: Texts, Calls, and the Relentless Scam Economy (06:44–15:25)

• Andy shares about frequent scam texts from the Philippines regarding "Easy Pass" tolls; Laci commiserates about scam fatigue:

  "I'm getting at least 10 phone calls a day from scammers… at this point, we gotta fight. Meet me in the parking lot!" — Laci Mosley (08:01)

• Andy recounts almost falling for a refund scam during COVID—revealing classic tactics: urgency, legitimacy through seeded personal details, and attempts to gain access to his computer and bank account. He manages to back out before losing money.

  "You're getting got because they're calling right after something real...When people call you, it’s a little different. It’s a little more urgent." — Laci Mosley (11:09)

3. Utility Bills and "In-Person" Scams (13:26–15:26)

• Andy tells a harrowing story of a struggling actor friend who fell victim to a fake "utility bill" scam that required an in-person cashier's check payment at a legit-looking office—revealing the scam's sophistication and targeting of vulnerable people.
• Their take: police are apathetic about white-collar scams but quick to respond to protests or visible events:

  "God forbid you do some real police work. It was like, no, the Black people are right outside.” — Laci Mosley (15:09)

4. Subscription, Return, and Membership Scams in Daily Life (19:21–26:44)

• Laci and Andy rail against manipulative store return policies (e.g. 11-day or 8-day returns that trick you into missing the window); they recommend setting reminders for returns/cancellations (20:00).
• The pain of inescapable subscription services: Laci hates clothing subscriptions that are hard to quit; Andy is similarly frustrated by a trampoline park membership that seems "impossible to cancel."

  "You have to go down and say, 'Take me off...!' Even while I'm doing [the membership] I'm thinking, they're just counting on people forgetting!" — Andy Richter (25:01)

• Laci's riff on hard-to-cancel subscriptions:

  "They make it really difficult… you gotta write a handwritten letter, send pictures of an obituary, do all this stuff to get out of it!" — Laci Mosley (23:24)

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Main Segment: Historic Hoodwinks – The Tomato Crop Insurance Scam (27:03–69:13)

Story Summary & Key Moments

27:03–38:36: Setting the Scene

• Laci recounts the tale of Robert and Vicki Warren, Eastern US tomato farmers who, from 1997–2003, orchestrated the largest crop insurance scam in US history, totaling over $9 million.
• Their methods: falsifying paperwork, faking crop losses, and forging documents with liquid paper ("whiteout"), PVC pipes, and copy machines.

38:49–53:53: The Scam Deepens—Strawberries, Fake Hail, and More

• The Warrens escalate their scam by not only exaggerating losses but physically staging disasters—buying bags of ice and mothballs to mimic hail damage on their tomato plants, and taking photos to "prove" crop loss.

  "They picked up wooden tomato stakes and attacked the plants...to simulate the damage the hail would attack. Because you know how hail be attacking the plant, in July, in a clear sky." — Laci Mosley (52:24)

• Farmhand Bobby Chambers testifies:

  "The way we did it, we was down taking pictures out this row, and then we just stood behind it and threw the ice up. Over to me, it looked like a hail storm." — Bobby Chambers, as relayed by Laci (51:25)

53:53–69:13: Collapse, Investigation, and More Crimes

• Insurance agents and adjusters were complicit, with one testifying his supervisor told him to lie for the Warrens.
• The US Department of Agriculture prosecuted—Warrens forfeit $7.3M and pay $9.15M in restitution, serving six years each. But the crime spree doesn’t stop:
• Post-prison, Robert Warren hides restitution money by making $9,000 deposits (just under the $10k threshold that triggers IRS review), using cold, foil-wrapped, musty-smelling bills kept in PVC pipes underground.
• Laci and Andy discuss the ethics and real effectiveness of “restitution” as a punishment, agreeing that prison should be a deterrent, but wrestling with the critique of mass incarceration and profit incentives of the penal system.

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Notable Quotes & Banter

• On the scam economy:
  "Scamming is so predatory now, it’s such an onslaught, I can’t imagine what it feels like to be someone else." — Laci Mosley (11:46)

• On ‘historic hoodwinkers’:
  "For six years, Robert and Vicki had been running a $9 million crop insurance scheme, the biggest farm fraud in the history of the US—and this is 90s $9 million. That was $9 million. Was $9 million." — Laci Mosley (30:08)

• On subscription services:
  "We don’t need to subscribe to clothes." — Laci Mosley (24:10)

• On victim-blaming (and paper straws):
  "I still hate that turtle to this goddamn day. That turtle with the straw in his snout. But you never saw the turtle?" — Laci Mosley (45:30)

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Laci & Andy’s Takeaways – Scams, Consequences, and the System

• The episode blends sharp comedic asides with real observations on the structures that enable scams—from banking loopholes, to subscription traps, policing priorities, and federal insurance policies.
• Andy draws a line between restitution and real deterrence—questioning both the effectiveness and ethics of criminal justice responses.
• Laci calls out hypocrisy in government and business, peppering the episode with quips about how scam prevention often falls hardest on the little guy, while big institutions suffer little consequence for their own misdeeds.

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Key Timestamps for Notable Segments

• 00:00–06:44: Introduction and dog chat
• 07:20–15:26: Current scam stories and scam fatigue
• 19:21–26:44: Subscriptions, return policies, and everyday scams
• 27:03–69:13: Historic Hoodwinks: The Largest US Crop Insurance Scam
  • 30:06: $9 million fraud revelation
  • 51:25: The “fake hailstorm” scam details
  • 56:08: Insurance agents and company complicity exposed
  • 62:29: The foil-wrapped, buried cash post-prison scheme

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Where to Find Andy Richter

• Podcast: The Three Questions
• Radio: SiriusXM’s "Andy Richter Calling"
• TV: An unnamed upcoming television show (details embargoed, but "you may see me shaking my ass.")

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Closing Notes

• Laci encourages listeners to check out photos of this episode’s scams on Instagram (@scamgoddesspod) and follow her (@divalaci). She also reminds fans to support her book and watch Scam Goddess and Going Dutch on Hulu.

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Episode Vibe

Fast-paced, irreverently funny, and sneakily insightful, this episode is a perfect Scam Goddess microcosm: an expert blend of scam breakdowns, personal stories, exposés of structural hypocrisy, and congenial, unfiltered comedy. Laci and Andy are in top form—keeping the "Con-gregation" laughing and learning.

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As Laci always says, "Stay schemin’—don’t get convicted, have conviction!" (69:20)

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Hi, Lacy. That's so nice.

[A]

It's so true.

[B]

Oh, it's very nice. You know, it's like, you know, when I'm picking up dog shit, I don't feel like an icon. So it's always. It's nice to hear, but it does feel like that doesn't really feel. You know what I mean?

[A]

I love that your dog is keeping you humble.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Are you making.

[B]

There's two of them. There's two of them.

[A]

But you are gonna pick up our poops, Mr. Starman.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Exactly. You ain't at the set right now. You ain't at the studio right now.

[B]

No. Nobody cares.

[A]

You at the dog park. I love. They're like, now you my bitch. What kind of dogs do you have?

[B]

I have two. I have a one. I have very comically different one's 125 pounds. She's like great Pyrenees border collie and German shepherd. She's a big hairy guard dog. And then we have a seven pound poodle mix who's hilarious.

[A]

And really, do we get along together?

[B]

Oh, they love each other. They love each other. And like, they're. Yeah, they're great. And the little one is just so. She's just Joy, you know, she's just Joy in a dog and I, and we fostered a few dogs, some just to foster, some as kind of like a test run, which I highly recommend. Well, first of all, don't buy a dog, rescue a dog. There's too many dogs in the world.

[A]

Yeah. In California you can. You're only supposed to, I think, rescue dogs. Right.

[B]

I don't. Well, I think you can buy one.

[A]

For a different state.

[B]

Yeah, you. Well, no, but I think there's still people here that breed dogs.

[A]

Yeah, that's true.

[B]

I thought there's no pet stores. It's just pet stores.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

You can't buy dogs in stores anymore because that's where the pep, the puppy mills were.

[A]

Oh, they were feeding them to the. To the dog store, which hurt.

[B]

You know, it's like, it used to be fun to go to the Beverly center and see the puppies in the pet store. But that's like, can't do that anymore.

[A]

Now I go to Larchmont and I feel like they're trying to scam me with those dogs. Cause, like, I'll walk by and they'll like, have a couple of them out on a leash. And I know they know to run up to you?

[B]

Oh, you mean like the rescues? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

They run up to you looking all cute and undamaged. Yes, they were.

[B]

Like, I wasn't in any cockpit charm training before they take him out on the larch mud.

[A]

And I learned from my friend who does a lot of animal rescue that a lot of shelters will actually take like two years off the dog's actual age because nobody wants like a old dog. So they'll like youthen up the dog a little bit.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

And I was like, really? That's wild. And I know that's not happening everywhere, but I know it's happening some places for sure.

[B]

It's strange too, because there are people who want to have senior dogs. Like, I've known so many people that they'll just go get like a seven year old dog and, you know, keep it till it dies and then go get another seven year old dog.

[A]

I guess in la there's a big commodity for young hot dogs. Okay.

[B]

Yeah, that's right. That's right. Because you never know if one of them might turn into an influencer.

[A]

Oh, listen. Okay. People are making a lot of money off their dogs. I can't believe it. Yeah, you don't have an Instagram for your dog yet. Your dog needs to start earning. Keep it. Can't just be a freeloader in your house just eating free food.

[B]

It would be too humiliating. Like, I'm not making enough money with showbiz that if my dog started to make more than me, you'd be jealous. I would. It would be her. I couldn't take it, you know, and then she'd probably get emancipated and, you know, and I wouldn't see dime one.

[A]

You come home and her doggy bed is by the door with all her toys and he's like, sorry, pookie.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. And then like Keanu Reeves picks her up on a motorcycle.

[A]

I know. Motorcyclist crazy. She's in a dog bed holding Keanu Reeves. Yeah, but then you got to give your dog County Reeves, though. He's great.

[B]

Yeah. That okay that he comes to your door.

[A]

Right?

[B]

I should have picked somebody else. Like, I don't know.

[A]

And John Wick.

[B]

Sandoval.

[A]

Yeah, Tom Sandoval. We don't want him having your dog.

[B]

Right, right.

[A]

But Mr. John Wick, you got to give up the dog. Yeah, yeah. Like, hold on, let me get her collar and things. She loves wet food, Right. Can I visit her?

[B]

No. I don't have to worry about you avenging her because that's what you do, John Wick.

[A]

Andy, are you going to avenge her?

[B]

No. I mean, maybe if he kills her. I guess that's sort of the thing. Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Keanu would never. Wow. I hope your dog doesn't hear this podcast. But I also do stream this for your dogs in the other room. Y', all. We want those dreams, but we do already. We kind of got into a scammy conversation talking about pet adoption a little bit, but what is your relationship with scams right now? Have you been scammed recently? Did you know any scams that have been run? Are there any scams that are just, like, really catching your eye? And the zeitgeist? It could literally be anything.

[B]

Well, I don't know why it is, and I'm not. And I'm not the only one, but somebody in the Philippines really wants to rip me off through my Easy Pass. Okay, you know the thing.

[A]

Have you been getting those texts? Yeah. You didn't pay a toll, and all.

[B]

You got to do is, like, look up the country code. It's like, the Philippines. Yeah. It's like, I don't think we've outsourced.

[A]

Easy Pass to the Philippines. You didn't know? And now they text you.

[B]

Right, Right.

[A]

Yeah. It's all in Manila.

[B]

They got to get in touch with us.

[A]

Big warehouse of people just on smartphones.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know if I told before, but there was a. I did almost get. And I'm embarrassed by it.

[A]

Don't be embarrassed. This is the place. Shame for you.

[B]

I know, but. But you know what I mean. I mean, have you ever, like, gotten too far into. And you're like, wait a minute, I'm being scammed? And why the fuck did I not know that before now? Has that ever happened to you?

[A]

I mean, yeah, in specific ways, but it was kind of like a different person was scamming me with a service. So, like, headshots or something like that?

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

But, like, when it comes to, like, a scam, I can usually sense it out pretty early. My issue is that I want to take it, too. But that's not to say that I haven't seen some wild scams or gotten pretty close to falling for something, but the clickable Internet links. Honestly, I'm getting a little fatigued with scamming right now, which is crazy, because I'm scam goddess. But I'm glad I can tell you this, Andy, that I am getting at least 10 phone calls a day from scammers. It's. I'm getting voicemails. I'm getting text messages. I'm getting emails flooded. And, like, my professional email, which I don't even put out publicly. And it is getting to the point where I just. Like, they come at 5am that's when they. So pissed off. I've blocked so many numbers, and I'm just like, all right, scammers, leave me the fuck alone. Like, at this point, we gotta fight. Like, meet me in the parking lot. Like, if you want this money, I'm gonna pop this trunk and get my bat out, and let's see who wins.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, it's wild, but. So you're getting the Manila situation. They're texting you, telling you about the easy pass.

[B]

Well, no, there was. There was one point.

[A]

Something else, right?

[B]

Yeah, there was one point a few years ago. It was actually. It was during COVID because I was home, and I think they woke me up with a phone call. And it was something. I don't remember. It had a legit tie into, like, something that I was buying or something. You know, they always had. There's like, that little thing, and this guy's talking to me, and he's like, telling me they're going to give me a refund for something. And. And he's. And he asked, like, you know, go to log into this thing so that I can see your hard drive to see where it is. And I was like, oh, okay. And then looking. And like, two seconds after I figured out it, I was like, what the fuck? What are you, a grandpa? Like, what is going on? But I did. And he was looking at my computer, and he's like, okay, now we need to have. Well, they did something. They were like, oh, no, we were going to refund you $240, but we put two zeros on. So it's $24,000 or something like that, right? And I was like, oh, what? And then they're like, we need to get into. You know, we need you to access your bank.

[A]

So she was like, 23. Yeah.

[B]

And I just. And by that point, I just was like, all it took was. I said, you know what? I'm gonna need a number to call you back. And I said. Cause I have to call some people first. And he just went click and was done.

[A]

You know what's interesting is, is that they were calling you after a person, like a purchase you had made recently, which kind of like, legitimized it a little bit more. Which is why I understand why you would go forward. Like, well, I did just buy this. And, like, okay, if there's. You know what I mean? And they're on the phone with you, so there's a bigger sense of urgency, like, when you. That's why the scammers who send me the emails can't ever really get me because, like, I can check for grammar. I can check the email address. You know what I mean? Like, Amazon ain't never hit me up with Amazon with a 0 and an O. You know, Hotmail is not where the IRS will contact you. So it's like, when you're reading those, you can find a lot of spots, but when people call you, it's a little different. It's a little more urgent.

[B]

Right. I just don't ever answer the phone unless I know who it is. I just don't ever answer the phone.

[A]

But you work so much on sets and stuff. Like, do you have, like, a burner number for production people or. No. Well, then, like, you do have to answer some numbers. You don't know sometimes, right?

[B]

Yeah. But I mean, if it. If that does happen, somebody will leave a message, and I'll check, you know.

[A]

I'll check if there.

[B]

If I think there's something, you know, like, in the air, like, I might be getting a call about something, they might leave a message, and then I can, you know, immediately call them back.

[A]

That's smart. I think we all got to just start sending things to voicemail and then hoping that other person texts. And then we'll be like, oh, okay, it's you if you don't know the number. Because it's getting. It's getting. It's so predatory now, and it's such an onslaught that I can't imagine what it feels like to be someone else. Like, just like a person who doesn't, like, think about scams and stuff like that. Like, you could get got so easily. And also this one was one of those give a little to get a lot. Like, oh, we gave you too much money. We need you to send some back. And also, like, I have never seen a company want to give you your money back. So anytime a company connects with me and they're like, oh, we have a refund for you, or, oh, you got overcharged. I'm like, this isn't real. Corporations will keep all my money. Even if I make an accidental rental purchase, they will keep it. And, oh, you noticed that we took your money. Oh, that's crazy. So you want it back? Yeah. That's gonna take six to eight business months.

[B]

And I'm like, I paid you Months.

[A]

I paid you in 30 seconds. Yeah, yeah. We gotta do the processing, the shipping, the handling. The handling of the shipping.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You get it?

[B]

Yeah, yeah. A friend of mine. This is. This is. This one is so, so evil friend of mine. Who's it like? A struggling actor. You know, he's been an actor his whole life, but it's, you know, it's. It's a struggle. There's lots of history. And so he was behind on his utility bill, and, you know, he's like, gonna pay the bill, but he gets a call one morning, and it's dm, whatever you call it, dwp. And they're like, you have to pay this now. It's gone too far. You need to come and you need to give us, you know, at least half of it or something. Or pay the full amount.

[A]

Since when the DoP talking about put.

[B]

Something on it, they were like. They, like, you have to do this now because we're, you know, you have to come down to this office. He's scared and he's. First of all, he's embarrassed that he's that far. You know, it's like you feel like shit when you. When you're behind on your bills. They give him a number, an address. He goes down. It has signage. It's like. And there's like a debt, you know, he said. It seems. It seems kind of like it's. They just moved in, but it's still. They have signage. Signage. They have a receptionist. They have all this stuff. He goes in and has given. Gives them a cashier's check for, I don't know, like 1500 bucks, finds out that it's completely a scam.

[A]

Oh, no.

[B]

And the part that's really. Because he went to the police about it.

[A]

Okay, good.

[B]

And the police are like, yeah, this has been happening. And he says they told him, like, that place, they'll be gone from there tomorrow. Like, they're in a different place. But they actually have you come down and physically give them a cashier's check. And it's all people who are worried about losing their fucking electricity.

[A]

And you're preying on the, like, most vulnerable of the community.

[B]

And it's gotta be somebody at the power company going, here's a list of people who are delinquent getting the pink bills, you know? And it's just. I just think, like, God damn.

[A]

And the police are just like, oh, yeah, this has been happening. Police, sir. This is actually what we give you tax money for. Hell, you mean? Oh, it's been happening. Anytime the black people want to congregate for a peaceful rally, y' all out here beating us with sticks and shit. But then as soon as we, like, can you do some police work? We're like, oh, yeah, we heard about that. Let us know if you get any leads.

[B]

The black people are easy to find.

[A]

Yeah, they're right there. They're right there. The scammers, not as easy.

[B]

Not so easy.

[A]

No, no, no, no, no.

[B]

Good luck finding that person at the power company that's giving away people's names.

[A]

God forbid you do some real police work. It was like, no, the black people are right outside.

[B]

I can stand through my window. Listen.

[A]

But the scammer, I don't know who that is. You know, that's a lot more man hours. You want us to do stuff for the society?

[B]

Oh, that's crazy.

[A]

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[B]

It's also really smart, too, that they're getting a cashier's check because you can't stop that.

[A]

You can't stop a cashier's check.

[B]

You cannot stop. Yeah, it's done. And, and that's, that's why you lose one.

[A]

It's really bad. It's like, yeah, you can only put it back in your bank if you have the cashier's check. Yeah.

[B]

Because if you could, like, if you paid your utilities with a credit card, then you could, you know, if you get scammed from that, you can.

[A]

Yeah, that's a credit card.

[B]

Unless you get the miles. I try and pay as much stuff as I can with credit cards just to get miles. And yeah, it's like, it's. It's like the one sort of silver lining in the cloud of paying too much for everything, you know?

[A]

You know what I've also hated is like, return policies now. Like, they'll give you a return policy at a store and it'll be like, okay, bring it back in 11 days or you can't return it. It's like, what is 11 days like? They get very close to two weeks. Just close enough that you forget. That's not.

[B]

Yeah, I wonder what that is.

[A]

Yeah. 12 day return policies. I've seen that a lot. Eight day return.

[B]

There must be some Sort of like.

[A]

It's like a mental gymnastics of if you hear something that sounds close to a week or close to two weeks, but it.

[B]

Oh, you think that's what it is?

[A]

Yeah, I think people forget.

[B]

See, I just was wondering if it's like, based somehow on how long it takes credit cards to post or something, you know, I don't know.

[A]

No, I think.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

If you get a free trial on something on any app or. Or buy something that, you know, you know, you might not use. Definitely. Like, ask for the return policy and put the date, like the day before or two days before in your calendar is an alarm so that you can cancel that service or return that item beforehand.

[B]

I was in New York city for about 12 days working on something, a guest spot on a show. Had a number of days off, sort of sprinkled throughout. And I was using the City Bikes and I found like, you join the City Bike Club or whatever, and then.

[A]

You don't got a club.

[B]

There's like this $4 charge every time you get a City Bike out. And if you join and it had a free 15 day wait period. So, like, all right, sure, I'll sign up for Citi Bike. And then on the drive to the airport on my way home, I canceled it. And I felt very clever.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because I saved. You know, it's probably by the time. Because I used to sit those. Do you ever use those City Bikes in New York City?

[A]

Okay, so the last one I. I kind of stole by accident.

[B]

Oh, well, that happened.

[A]

I mean, I felt bad, though, because I didn't know the person who left the bike would get charged for the bike. But it was pride. And I just saw a bike and, you know, it was time for me to be gay and do things like be gay, do crime. Yeah. And that's when I learned that you can. For the listeners out there, I don't have any DUIs, but just know you can get a DUI on a bike.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Yeah. I did not know that.

[B]

It has wheels, y'.

[A]

All. So if you're at a festival, don't try that at. Don't try that. Okay. Next to it. Put it down.

[B]

That's on the person, too. That just, like left a city bike sitting somewhere. You got to expect it.

[A]

But for all I know, maybe they went to the bathroom, but maybe they're trying to find a bathroom or maybe they're talking to their friends. I don't know. I felt bad. I didn't know that, like, the City Bike, if it doesn't get returned, you get charged. Yeah, I didn't know about that. Yeah. But I've city biked before. It feels very dangerous to me in New York.

[B]

I just really liked it. And especially because in New York now they have the ebikes, which is like, I'm like, okay.

[A]

At this point, it's giving car. Like they be in the road.

[B]

Like it's a little motorcycle, but it's easier, you know, I was. They, they put me up in Brooklyn and. And just to get around Brooklyn, you know, instead of like calling for a lift that would cost $30 to go from Greenpoint to Williamsburg to watch a movie, it's like, get on an E bike and wee, you know, and just ride down the waterfront. Down. You know, it was really. And it was summertime and it was, you know, sundown a couple of times. It was really nice. I really liked him.

[A]

I would do it if I had better balance. I feel like you have good balance then if you like E bikes and city bikes and stuff. I feel like I'm just going to take one wrong lean and then it's.

[B]

I'm a skid mark, you know, it is nerve wracking. You do have to like, get over the hump of, oh, cars are everywhere and they're going everywhere. And this bike lane seems to be more of a suggestion than an actual lane that's being respected by anybody but me.

[A]

So.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

You know, I hate that they had a subscription service for it, though. If I was riding every day and I lived in New York, maybe. But like, I'm. I'm starting to really hate subscription services for things that shouldn't be subscriptions. I hate clothing subscription services. I can't even say it. Like, why am I subscribing to subscription services? Many, many.

[B]

That's crazy.

[A]

I won't list them, but many. And it, it annoys me. They're like, oh, do they get this.

[B]

Do they send you clothes without.

[A]

Well, you go to the store and I went into an athletic store if, you know, you know, and they had like a steep, steep discount. So I was like, I'm just gonna get a bunch of athletic clothes right now and then cut off the service when I get home. But they make it really difficult to do. Like you have to go on their website, you know, write the right pen, a handwritten letter, like send pictures of an obituary. Like, gotta do all this stuff to get out of it.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Um, and some clothing brands have been sued for this. But yeah, they were like, oh, this top and bottom is A hundred dollars if you don't. If you're not a member. But if you're a member, it's half off and it's only 50. Or it' like even lower than that. They'd be like two for 20. But if you're not a member, two for 80 million.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. So it's, it's a nice little scam, but I'm like, we don't need to subscribe to clothes.

[B]

Wow. And it's a fee that you have to pay every month for the privilege of.

[A]

The privilege of having cheaper clothes because you're going to need so many leggings your whole life that this makes sense.

[B]

Yeah, See, I don't, I don't buy enough clothes anymore.

[A]

I just figured out what site I'm talking about. No, but I'm part of one. You just realized you're part of one, Jess? No, I realized that I forgot to skip this month and they're gonna chart. No, our producer just, just realized she's a part of one of those clothing, those clothing traps and she forgot to skip the payment.

[B]

I lately have been having. And you know, I know this is a different, a different kind of business, but the membership that we have to the trampoline park in Alhambra is impossible to cancel. And they get you too, because you go in and it's like the first time you like, it's $35.

[A]

Andy, how much jumping were you planning to do?

[B]

I got a five year old.

[A]

You go and you, you know, get them tired.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. It's like a hamster wheel for a human, you know?

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But the first time you go, it's like it's $33 to come in, but only 35 to join. And then you can come back as much as you want. You know, on weekdays, not on weekends stuff. I'm like, okay, all right, sure, I'll do that. I'll do the 35. And even while I'm doing it, I'm thinking like. Cause they're just counting on people forgetting that they've signed up for the trampoline park in Alhambra. And I have tried. I gotta go the fuck down there and say, take me off of you, because I've tried, I've climbed.

[A]

And you better get your jumps in. You better just get your jumps in. It's like a gang. They gotta jump you out. I don't jump in. I jump you out.

[B]

It's not even for me. Like, I can't. It's my daughter's, you know, it's Her. It's connected to her. So I. When I go, I can't even jump. I have to. Have to pay money to jump. No, that's.

[A]

Oh, that's wild. You're paying for all the jumps and the hops.

[B]

You can't have. You get a separate wristband and that. You know, it's just like I'm a parent. Yeah, this is. That's a non jumping wristband.

[A]

You know, I wonder if we can get your daughter to do something so that y' all are banned and then they have to cut off the thing. Right. Like maybe she just brings like a milkshake and like jumps with it.

[B]

Yeah. Or smokes, you know, just get on. Get on the drunk dribble cigarette.

[A]

Like you can't. Ma', am, you cannot come here anymore. Like, great. Can you cancel our membership?

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

She immediately is like, perfect. Cancel.

[B]

Other kids are Andy Richter. Other kids are like, I want to smoke too. That looks cool.

[A]

That looks so fun. Mommy, can I have a cigarette? Yes. Well, let's get into my favorite segment here, Andy. Historic Hoodwinks. This is where I will regale Andy with a famous con caper. Group of criminals will get his opinions all throughout. Andy. This is the only safe space to interrupt a woman. So really cherish it.

[B]

All right, I will.

[A]

So today we're going back a little bit in time. Between 1997 and 2003, the most successful tomato farmers on the eastern seaboard swindled the government out of 9 million before investors discovered that the B in their BLT stood for bullshit. So tomato farmers. Cool. In the late 90s, RNV Warren Farms was the largest vine ripened tomato grower in the eastern U.S. employing about 200 people. Okay. And I wonder what those people look like, period. Period.

[B]

They probably look like Mario and Luigi, right?

[A]

Stop playing with the tomato. I love that we make of the tomato.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. So it was run by Robert and Vicki Warren, a middle aged married couple who seemed like typical down home farmers. At one point, they owned 26 farms in three states, including North Carolina, South Carolina and Tennessee. Then in 2003, the basement of their modest. In the basement of their modest farmhouse, Department of Agricult investigators found liquid eraser bottles, copy machines, PVC pipes, and tens of thousands of forged documents.

[B]

What is it? All those things? Liquid eraser and PVC pipes?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Are they making disappearing bombs?

[A]

Right. At first I was like, it's giving murder a little bit, but now it's kind of actually giving. Like maybe we're like, okay, how does it all work? Together.

[B]

How does it all?

[A]

Copy machines, PVC pipes and. But they have forged dock, so maybe they're lifting the ink off of.

[B]

Maybe liquid eraser means like liquid paper. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

I hope it doesn't mean liquid paper, because if y' all were lifting it with liquid paper, then, baby, like, how are y' all getting away with this?

[B]

I love it. It's just.

[A]

It's real down home.

[B]

Yeah, it's real down home kind of feel.

[A]

You're right. And copy machines. So if it's the 90s and I put a little of that paper white on, and then I run it through the copy machine, then rewrite on top of it after it's dried properly, otherwise it's gonna get all. You know, I get a little thicker.

[B]

Mm.

[A]

I don't know these things, but okay. I can see what's happening here.

[B]

So by liquid eraser bottle, they mean whiteout.

[A]

We don't know. We don't know why. Liquid eraser.

[B]

Yeah. I don't know what that. That seems to be like, you know, that's like they're trying to use a non trademark.

[A]

Yeah, let's look up liquid eraser.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because I would think it would be white out.

[B]

It must be. Yeah, it must be liquid paper or whiteout, which are the two brand names. And they won't use that, you know.

[A]

Right. No free ads in the press.

[B]

It's wired out. Yeah, pretty much. Yeah. They were manipulating paperwork.

[A]

Yeah. And then copying it so you couldn't. Obviously it's a 90s copier machine. It's not gonna be like ours today. So you probably couldn't tell that it was whited up. Oh, somebody had a very steady hand. You gotta keep that line underneath. Black.

[B]

Yeah, you gotta.

[A]

So for six years, Robert and Vicki had been running a $9 million crop insurance scheme. The biggest farm fraud in the history of the U.S. wow. And this is 90s 9 million. So that was 9 million. Was 9 million. Okay. Nowadays, 9 million. I mean, it's still a lot of money, but it's not what it was in the 90s.

[B]

It's nothing. Nine million.

[A]

That's my walking around money. Now, please. You renting when you got 9 million?

[B]

That's what my closing subscriptions cost.

[A]

Right. Truly likely. So in 1996, before they embarked on a life of crime, Robert and Vicki lived in a brick ranch style home with a pickup truck in the driveway in western North Carolina. Their buyers knew the Warren farms produced big yields of high quality tomatoes. Everything was going great. So they were living legit. They were working legit.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I don't know why it's important for us to know. They got a pickup truck in their driveway. But I guess they're folksy.

[B]

I guess. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah.

[A]

So in 1997, they bought crop insurance and all of a sudden their tomato harvest started to take a hit, or so they said. So when they started getting that good insurance, they were like, oh, no, the pests. All of our asides didn't work on the pests. Yeah, yeah, we have less tomatoes. I don't know. A bear came and ate all our shit.

[B]

Aphids.

[A]

So many aphids.

[B]

So many aphids.

[A]

You wouldn't believe it was a swarm.

[B]

Yeah, they came up from the border.

[A]

We need to deport the A fees.

[B]

We need to do something.

[A]

No, no, no. Robbery.

[B]

Hey, I'm Paul Scheer.

[A]

I'm June Diane Rayfield.

[B]

And I'm Jason Mantzoukas. And we're the hosts of how did this Get Made? A comedy podcast where we deconstruct, make fun of and celebrate the best worst movies ever made. Have you ever seen a movie that's so bad that it's actually good? That's what we're talking about.

[A]

From blockbuster franchises and made for TV.

[B]

Romances to bonkers 80s action flicks and obscure sci fi musicals, we cover it all. You can find. How did this get made? Wherever you get your podcasts and don't forget to follow the show so you never miss an episode. Idiot. Netcredit is here to say yes to a personal loan or line of credit. When other lenders say no, apply in minutes and get a decision as soon as the same day. If approved, applications are typically funded the next next business day or sooner. Loans offered by NetCredit or lending partner banks and serviced by Netcredit Applications subject to review and approval. Learn [e-mail] partners. NetCredit credit to the people It's Cybersecurity awareness month and LifeLock is here with tips to help protect your identity. Use strong passwords, set up multi factor authentication and report phishing system scams. And for comprehensive identity protection, Lifelock is your best choice. Lifelock alerts you to suspicious uses of your personal information and also fixes identity theft. Guaranteed or your money back. Stay smart, stay safe and stay protected. With a 30 day free [e-mail] specialoffer.

[A]

Terms apply and fraud. In 1997, Robert planted his farm in in Spartanburg, South Carolina. He told the El Ross Insurance Company that he planted on April 15th the date allowed under his policy. In reality, he planted between April 4 and April 12. Later, he filed a claim for cold weather damage in April and May and collected 157, $712,000 in crop insurance. So he planted earlier than what he said. So he got the crop popping and then harvested it and was like, oh, no, my crops, they froze in April because it's so cold in South. Is it cold in South Carolina in April?

[B]

In wintertime in the interior and in.

[A]

The summer is April. Winter.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. I bet you still get freezes which can kill a tomato plant. That's true.

[A]

That's true. So they also reported remarkably minimal yields on several farms. So they basically saying, we're not making no money on some of these farms that we got. These farms are broke. So on the Spartanburg farm, they claimed a harvest of 9,862 boxes of fresh tomatoes. The actual harvest was seven. The actual harvest was 78, 670 boxes.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

They said they did nine. They did. They basically did almost 10 times the amount that they reported. And they pocketed nearly $150,000.

[B]

See, that's just. You're dumb. Like, you pocket 25 grand. Don't make it so obvious. You know what I mean?

[A]

Or maybe don't file an insurance claim every year.

[B]

There. Yeah, I mean, there's. There's the don't do it school of thought.

[A]

Like, you got to do a little insurance fraud as a treat.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. You can't be doing it lying by tenfold or eight, nine. Fold. That's crazy.

[A]

No. So for their 10 farms in 1997, the Warrens claimed losses on five. They received $644,000 in crop insurance or premium credits for their scheme. So I know the crop insurance company got to be tired at this point because it's.

[B]

Yeah, they. It's got to race red flags because.

[A]

Insurance doesn't want to give you your money anyway. You could pay your whole life and get sick on, you know, like in your 80s. And they'll be like, oh, actually, we're going to cancel your policy.

[B]

It makes me. It makes me curious, too, as to like, how does the crop insurance thing work? Like, they just take your word for it. I planted a bunch of corn and I don't know, something killed it. Give me some money. Like, they're just like, oh, okay.

[A]

I would imagine there's a claims adjuster because they did lie about winning. They plot, they dropped the seeds. What are farmer words? When they planted, they lied about it. So they must have had to harvest before the claims adjuster came. Yeah. And if they filed on the 15th and they harvest on the 12th, that gives them plenty of time to, I guess, for the adjuster to come. So they hadn't actually lost anything. Right. They were still producing the same tomatoes and selling them out the back door. Additional profit on top of the insurance gambit. Right. So they ran the same scheme in 1998, dramatically lowering lowered overall harvest numbers, fudged figures between fields, and netted $1 million in insurance money. Then they decided to go big cuz 1 million wasn't big enough. Also, they're selling the surplus of tomatoes that they didn't claim out the back door. What does a backdoor tomato deal look like, Andy?

[B]

It's at night. I don't know. How would I know?

[A]

I feel like you've done a backdoor tomato deal once or twice. Seems like a little caprese.

[B]

Listen, I've never. I would only. I only buy tomatoes from registered tomato vendors. I would never buy my tomatoes on the street.

[A]

You don't know. They might have been black market tomatoes that you were getting. Okay, you know, how are we supposed to trace that?

[B]

Yeah, there's no way to know.

[A]

Okay? I mean, look, there's some really nice stores out there, and I'm sure they're getting them nice tomatoes from somewhere. So. So by 1999, the Warren had 20 farms, and they claimed losses on 18 of them using forage, chemical receipts, sales figures, surveyor l. Surveyor letters, acreage reports, planting dates. Like fudging the planting days, which we already saw. Payroll records. They were fudging that too. And these people ain't on the payroll. Invoices, manifests, and more like literally any document you could fake, they were faking it.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Like, some of these, I'm like, did you even really need to fake this?

[B]

Yeah, that. It's almost like at a point, it's like it's a compulsive disorder or something.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know what I mean? Because it's like, especially too, if they're like, where's this money going if they're living in this modest ranch house?

[A]

Right?

[B]

I mean, does the. Does the pickup truck turn into a monster truck? Is that the tip off that they get? That's the Gravedigger. That's the famous monster truck. Yeah.

[A]

And the. The. The license plate is like, tomato.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Insurance fraud.

[A]

Oh, that's too many letters. Okay, just make it frd. Okay. Yeah.

[B]

I N, S, F, R, D. Just make it BMT. Black market tomatoes.

[A]

Yes. Oh, BMT is good. Yes. So they claimed 512,000 tomato boxes in 1999. So they. I guess some of this money was going into expansion because they did buy more farms. They just claimed that those farms weren't working very well.

[B]

Because that's the business thing. If you're not making money, you buy more businesses that don't make money. That's. They teach that in business school.

[A]

I learned it.

[B]

Yeah. It's really a smart way to do it.

[A]

It is. Especially if you want to do insurance bribe, which they also teach in business school. Yeah. I gotta take the classes and be like, so how. If I were to do this, how would I stop someone from doing it?

[B]

What are the signs I need to know.

[A]

Yeah. Could you list everything that someone would do to do insurance for us so I can keep an eye out?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've got it. Yeah.

[A]

Just.

[B]

What are the. What are the markers?

[A]

Like, you have to learn a lot of that if you work in insur. And we can use those skills on both sides of the coin.

[B]

There's always that. You know, it's like every casino, it's like the people that they hire to stop the cheaters are former cheaters. And I'm. And I'm sure that the IRS has tax cheats.

[A]

Oh, yeah. The government does it all the time. They'll let you out early if you can tell them how you defrauded them.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Or hackers. Same thing.

[A]

Yeah. Big for hackers. Yeah. I don't know, though. If I was a really good hacker, I'm not working for Uncle Sam. Well, I guess they got you under a bind because they caught you, so now you got to go.

[B]

Absolutely. Yeah.

[A]

That's true. So their 1999 haul was $3.8 million in insurance money. That was an insurance money. It's not even their haul for, like, legitimate backdoor tomato in the alley at night in a trench coat sales.

[B]

Right.

[A]

This is just insurance fraud. So this all comes from private insurance companies and is later reimbursed by the federal government. So the private insurance company, I could see them not looking that hard because.

[B]

They know they're gonna get the money.

[A]

Ain't gonna be sure this is a scam. So they was like, look, Uncle Sam got us, so we ain't even gonna. What y' all say? No tomatoes this year from all 20 farms. That's crazy. How much y' all need? 12 million. At no point. Nobody's like, maybe I should get out of this business. No. Insurance adjuster called and was like, hey, hey, guys.

[B]

Maybe corn.

[A]

Hey, the Warren family. Yeah, maybe corn. Maybe corn. Have you guys thought about grapes?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

Something sturdy like pumpkins.

[A]

Or maybe not. Maybe that's an option. We just don't farm anymore. They're like, no, no, no. So in 2000, they had 26 farms and doubled down with the tomato and strawberry fraud. Now we got strawberries in the mix.

[B]

Oh, no. Leave strawberries alone.

[A]

Nope. Strawberries are involved now, Ms. Shortcake. Count your days. You're going to jail, babes.

[B]

I mean, tomatoes, you know, tomatoes are very sort of ethically challenged. They're just a very. Of the. All of the fruits and vegetables, they are the scammiest schemingist. Everyone knows that.

[A]

Yeah. Because tomatoes be out here pretending to be a vegetable every day, and it's like, you're a fruit. Like you already lying to me.

[B]

Precisely.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But strawberries, they. They've done that no harm to anyone.

[A]

They didn't deserve this.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So this payout that they got in 2000 from the 26 farms was $2,254,000.

[B]

Jesus.

[A]

And so, on Independence Day of 2001, start out to the 4th of July, the Warrens pulled their biggest fraud yet. That year, they had switched insurance companies to Fireman's fund and added a new farm in Cock County, Tennessee. So now I don't know why y' all switching insurance companies, because if it ain't broke, keep scamming it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But okay, as usual, they faked production records for the property, pretended to have grown the tomatoes.

[B]

Wait a minute. You know what? They probably did. I bet you the premiums from the company that they were already scamming, they're probably like, these premiums are too high. Like, they're charging us too much for ripping them off. We need to find someone with that charges us less for ripping them off.

[A]

I love that mentality. They're like, trying to save money on the money they're stealing.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

They're like, how dare you charge me to put them out there?

[B]

Right, Right.

[A]

Yeah. Ain't no robbery taxes.

[B]

And I've also. I've also been thinking, like, I wonder who they voted for. There's that one.

[A]

Oh, we. And then.

[B]

And then also, too. I wonder how they feel about people on welfare. You know, that's. There's so much. That's. There's so much of that among the farm world. Like, you know, these people soaking up all the benefits.

[A]

Like, which is wild. They were so hardcore. If my point wasn't Clear earlier. Like, farmers are really hardcore about voting for that man. And deportation, mass deportation. And now when they realize, like the people who they employ are afraid to come to work, they're like, wait, wait, wait, not like that, not like that. Like, let me have my employees. But I don't know any other browns on the street. Any brown. It could be any race. It could be any race. But not, not my employees. I love them.

[B]

Somebody with a tan, you know, just. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Someone who just got back from the Bahamas.

[B]

Well, tanned person like them.

[A]

No, it's so, so ridiculous and hypocritical and also like, you know, like, people who work on farms provide a service that is so immeasurable. It's like, don't. Don't we all need food to live?

[B]

Yeah, but there's lots of. There is lots of welfare for farming and like, like a lot of subsidies for corn so that they grow way too much corn than what is necessary.

[A]

Yep. And then destroy it.

[B]

And then they either destroy it or they like strong arm people to make ethanol, like corn fuel, you know, and just things like that. Or corn syrup, you know, like, it's.

[A]

It's wild when you learn, like, the food pyramid was a scam that was just made by like people in the agriculture industry.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Or all those commercials that used to be like, got milk? They were really trying to get you to just buy milk and then be like, oh, milk so good for your bones. So good. Do you want brittle ass bones? But then you better get your brittle ass over and get some milk. And it's like, that's not the only way to get vitamin D, guys.

[B]

And that's milk.

[A]

Yeah, but it was a conspiracy. But I thought they were just trying to make me be more healthy. That's why if you see something online and it's like, now we've Learned that eating 10 eggs a day can improve your lifespan. And then like a month later it'll be like, eggs are bad for your heart, for the cholesterol. And it's like there's someone propagating this whole thing. And I don't even think about it because those that are under the guise of health, I'm like, oh, that's just the government trying to help us be healthy. No, they're trying to offload shit on us.

[B]

Yes. And you don't even need to worry about any of that because the planet is ruined. Ruined. So, you know. Yeah. Easy come, easy go.

[A]

Yo, my Uncle Jeffrey, he's from the south. And sometimes like my southern relatives may have like, Some differences of opinions when it comes to, like, the environment and things like that. So I kind of hold my breath if we get to a more progressive conversation. And that's not all of them. It's just a handful.

[B]

A few of them. You just bite your tongue just because you're like, let's just get out of this.

[A]

I'll take you to test. If you're talking crazy, I'm not gonna let some bullshit and some bigotry slide. But if it's something where I'm like, neither of us is gonna fix this, I going to let that go. But if you got hate in your heart, I'm going have to walk you down.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

But so we were talking, we got on the subject of climate change, I think, because our straws came and they were just like the saddest paper straws. And you know how they just go limp in your mouth after a while. And I'm like, if we going to crack down on that, can we also crack down on, like, I go, if I buy anything from a luxury store, they send me home with 50 reams of paper and six boxes. I mean, I feel like y' all could just put the shoe in the bag. Like, if everybody don't do their part, if I got to suck on a limp straw, y' all don't have to have all this paper. But I digress. So I was talking to him and I was like, oh, yeah, this paper straw. I was like, oh, that fucking turtle. I still hate that turtle to this goddamn day. That turtle with the straw in his snout. And then after that, they were like, everybody has to have paper straws. But I have beef with that turtle. But you never saw the turtle.

[B]

No, I did, but your uncle's saying.

[A]

This about the turtle.

[B]

No, you're saying this.

[A]

I'm saying this.

[B]

And then this is really blaming the victim, though.

[A]

No, no, that turtle needs to be blamed.

[B]

That turtle knew what it was doing.

[A]

Franklin's bitch ass needs to come outside.

[B]

That turtle was at a hardcore punk show.

[A]

Turtles lived for like a hundred years.

[B]

He did that to a child.

[A]

Was not pressed that straw. But fine, whatever. But I was like, but you know what? We gotta save the planet. We gotta do right by the planet. So I'm gonna stuck on this paper. Whatever. And he was like, yeah, I mean, climate change to me is just like. And I was like, holding, like, bated breath. He was like, climate change, that's just, to me, like, well, I mean, it's all gonna be over. What are we fighting for? Like, let's just party and have fun with the time that we got. And I was like, what?

[B]

Until we all get boiled alive.

[A]

Not the night Al. I thought he was gonna be like, client change is fake. He was like, no, very real. Let's just turn up with this. The last.

[B]

Too late. We fucked up.

[A]

He was like, earth had a good run. We were having a time. Earth had a good run. Is crazy. You giving up?

[B]

You giving up?

[A]

Okay, okay. I'm like, I'm still trying. I'm gonna suck on the paper. But he was like, nah, let's just give up. It was so funny. I was dead. But anyways, back to these people. So they switched their insurance company, right? They were like, I really think it's what you said.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like the premiums.

[B]

Lower premiums.

[A]

Lower premiums for our crime. And so they switched companies and now they're with the workplace. Yeah.

[B]

Firemen.

[A]

Firemen, yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Which.

[A]

Why is the fire. Oh, why is the fireman involved? Why are they in it? Wait, I want to find things. Yeah, Fireman's fund. I don't understand why the fireman's is involved, but okay, so as usual, they faked their everything, pretending to have grown tomatoes on the ground. Since 1991 created a full decade of forged documents with notarized lease agreements, false testimony from a real. Now we got a realtor involved.

[B]

Okay, not realtors.

[A]

Listen, realtors, like, there are realtors who really are talented at realty and like, getting you a great property or home that you love. And then there's realtors who were scamming and doing other shit, and then they were like, what can I do next? Get my real estate lights, you know? So you have those some realtors in New York when they're showing you apartments for rent, I'm like, bro, you ain't no realtor. Like, you are a dude that they hired to just hang out at the building and let us see it.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

You don't know shit about this place.

[B]

The open doors.

[A]

Yeah. Literally. He's like, yeah. So you see here? You got cabinets. Yeah. Over here we got. We got this. This is one of the bedrooms. Is this. Is this the main bedroom? It's one of them. It's. Yeah.

[B]

One of my favorite little. Little real estate scams that ever happened was when my ex wife and I, we moved to New York and we were looking for an apartment. A guy and like, an agent shows us one, and as we. We're going up the stairs, this couple is coming down the stairs and they're like, we really love it. It's really great. And then he shows it to us. And it was, you know, okay or anything, but we didn't pull the trigger. On was in our neighborhood. And like a day later, I was walking by there, that same couple was waiting. They were plants that, like, walked out. They were, like, waiting. And I saw. Saw the realtor coming up with another client, and they're like, we love it. You know, it's fantastic. Yeah.

[A]

Over asking, right? Yeah. No. So they also had, you know, their fake planting dates, their fake spraying records, bogus Harvard harvest records, false diagrams detailing a fantasy irrigation system that they wanted to make. Fantasy Irrigation, 2001, they stepped they up, okay? They got on Microsoft Paint and they said, let's make a fantasy. Then, you know, they probably got on power Points, you know, and they made a fantasy. And they had hundreds of fake invoices. So once they got crop insurance in place, The Warren planted 252 acres of tomatoes, but had actually only planted 5 acres. So what you mean? So when they got the insurance in place, they planted 252 acres of tomatoes, but had actually only planted 5 acres. I'm gonna let you guess which acreage is accurate. So on July 4th, their brand. On the 4th of July. Excuse me. Their brand new farm was devastated by a freak hailstorm. On a day with clear blue skies, the farm employees purchased bags of ice and mothballs from the grocery store through a load of tomato plants. I'm sorry. Through the loads around the tomato plants and snapped photos of the hailstones falling from the sky with a disposable camera. So you know how. How hail be. It looks like mothballs. And it definitely happens on the Fourth of July.

[B]

And so Fourth of July.

[A]

Fourth of July. Excuse me. Oh, my God. Thank you for correcting me. According to Bobby Chambers, who ran the farm in Tennessee. Do we have a photo of Barb? Bobby. Bobby said. Bobby said. The way we did it, we was down taking pictures out this row, and then we just stood behind it and threw the ice up. Over to me, it looked like a hail storm.

[B]

In broad daylight.

[A]

Yeah, in broad daylight. No rain inside. Listen, we don't got Photoshop that good right now. Right now it's 2001. Everybody ain't got. Can't, you know, can't afford to take it.

[B]

There's no. There's a. There's like. I mean, y' all could even have.

[A]

Somebody throw the ice on Bobby.

[B]

And look at. There's a driveway behind where there's. There's no.

[A]

There's no, there's no hail.

[B]

There's no hail over here.

[A]

Y' all gotta put the fake hail everywhere.

[B]

Yeah. It's not destroying the. The stuff in behind. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

It's like, we ain't harvested that yet. So the hail didn't hit it. The hail didn't want that. Like, what is this?

[B]

What got him caught? Please tell me that this. This photo scam is like, please.

[A]

So basically, he. He's telling y. Everybody, wait, look. He said to me, it looked like a hail storm to me. It don't. Bobby. Bobby. It don't look like a hail storm to me. Bobby Chambers. Then they picked up wooden tomato stakes and acted. Or attacked the plants. So they picked up wooden tomato stakes and attacked the plants.

[B]

Right. To simulate the damage the hail that the hail would attack.

[A]

Because you know how hail be attacking the plant. Yes. In July in a clear sky.

[B]

Hates tomatoes.

[A]

Yes. And definitely doesn't look like ice that Bobby threw up in the air real quick. He's like, take the picture on three. On three.

[B]

And it's amazing how well hail can target tomatoes from the sky. Like, doesn't really fall around the the area, just right on the tomatoes.

[A]

And you know when you need to file an insurance claim for hell, it's important to go out in the actual hail and take pictures with the hail hailing on you.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

You don't wait till it's over.

[B]

Every farm has tons of disposable cameras, just in case, so.

[A]

Oh, no. I hate. I have to read this. This is. This is also Baby Chambers. They had one Mexican who did all the beaten. He beat 16,000 of them. He just go through there and knock the leaves off of them.

[B]

Bobby said, yeah, that Mexican love beating tomatoes.

[A]

He's like, I don't need no help. I'll beat all the tomatoes.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

So to replant 252 acres of tomatoes, the Warren Scott $98,000 in 2001 for over 17 farms. They received for over the 17 farms, they received $1 million from the Fireman's fund and claimed they were owed an additional $3.8 million. That's when the U.S. department of Agriculture finally started an investigation. That's when it wasn't the hail photos. It was that they came back again and they were like, you know what? Actually, this time we want 3.8 million. Like, you already made so many million greedy. Before the 3.8, they were probably at around 5.8 million. So why? Why?

[B]

I don't know. Just greedy maybe. Or who knows? Maybe they had, like, Maybe there's some gambling thing going on. You know, sometimes that happens.

[A]

They gotta clean up automatically. Mothballs. That's at least a meal.

[B]

Oh, absolutely. And life is, you know, in rural western North Carolina, life is very expensive.

[A]

Oh, so expensive. Expensive as hell. So the USDA official estimate of about 5% of crop insurance payouts each year go to phony claims. That's pretty low, in my opinion. About the same proportion found in other types of insurance. The farmers buys an insurance policy that provides partial coverage, usually 50 to 60% for the crop that he expects to raise. So that's why they started upping the crops that they wanted to raise, because then they could also up the amount of insurance money that they received, even though they were lying and foraging about these crops. So the insurance agent sells him the policy. The loss adjuster is dispatched to inspect the field. If the farmer claims a disaster, if the disaster is confirmed, the crop insurance comes, right? And you get a check. And then the U.S. treasury, which guarantees the risk farm insurance, often reimburses the insurance company. So the Warrens were stealing the government's money. And we realized that a long time. And you really can't steal from the government. They can only steal from us. It's a one way theft street, Right, Right. You try to take from Uncle Sam, he gonna get your ass. He gonna be like, we want you in prison.

[B]

Yep. You need to know that.

[A]

So the insurance companies weren't dumb, though. They were in on it. And we kind of had a hunch about that too because when we found out the government was running it back, it's like, yeah, right, right. Yeah, y' all got millions of acres and we definitely gonna get y' all that billion.

[B]

Sure was too bad about your tomatoes.

[A]

Everything thing looks real hellish up here.

[B]

Oh, yeah, sure. They. They look pretty ruined over there.

[A]

The claims adjuster comes out, he gets in one of the photos, they throw ice up on there. Yeah, yeah. Looks like hell to me. So insurance agent George CER coached the warrants in detail about how to perpetuate the fraud.

[B]

Oh, oh, and we were saying earlier.

[A]

Oh my gosh. That insider knowledge, if you have it from the insurance company. Look at us, G. Geniuses then. Adjuster Thomas Jeffrey Marsh testified that his supervisor at the insurance company instructed him to lie on crop damage forms for the Warrens. It took federal prosecutors three years to unravel the Warren scheme. He charged the Warrens as well as two of their employees, an insurance agent and an insurance adjuster with participating in extensive scheme to defraud The Federal Crop Insurance Corporation. So this is the federal prosecutor who charged them. Robert's attorney said it's fine for the government to issue sentencing memoranda and make Robert Warren appear to be the Saddam Hussein of crop insurance, but he's not. The Saddam Hussein of crop Insurance is crazy.

[B]

2001.

[A]

Not Osama bin Kroppen.

[B]

Yeah. The Jeffrey Dahmer of tomatoes. He's not that at all.

[A]

Oh, oh, it is 2001. So remember like, Saddam Hussein was a really popular name.

[B]

Yeah, he was hot then.

[A]

Yeah. A lot of babies named Saddam here. So Bobby Chambers testified for the government and got two years probation. And honestly, the way that Bobby Chambers speaks, get at me at probation. He know it's not what he do.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

He was throwing ice in there, talking about, look, look at him. That's a simpleton if I've ever seen one.

[B]

It weren't my fault.

[A]

Right. He was like, all I did is throw the ice in the air like they told me to.

[B]

Let's just do. I'm a good German.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I do as I was.

[A]

We threw the ice up in the earth and I picked some tomatoes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yes. I. Okay, Bobby, I. It's okay. You can be free. I hope you and your. Your Mexican friend are both free. I hope the Mexican man was not charged. Seeing as we don't have his name. I hope he was not charged. Cuz he didn't do nothing but what he was assigned to do at the job house.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

If I go to the job house and they like whack on these plants, I'd be like, okay, anything else is above my pay grade.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Okay. I'm just plant whack. That's what I do here. So Bobby testified for the government. Right. And Robert and Vicki took a plea deal and agreed to forfeit $7.3 million and pay 9.15 million in restitution to the USDA. They both got six years in prison, but that wasn't the end of their criminal activity. Lord Jesus. We're gonna wrap it up with the rest of their crimes. But I do wanna stay here, Andy. I don't know. I have a question for you. Do you think that the government should have put them in prison or should the government have made them like actually repay them with real crops?

[B]

No, put them in prison.

[A]

Okay. Because I just think like restitution, it. You always get like a huge restitution like that where it never gets paid back.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

I'm like, at least they could pay it back in tomato Right, but.

[B]

Yeah, but. No, but you gotta. You gotta. You know, the whole idea is to deincentivize the crime. And if, you know, and if other scammy farmers were seeing like, oh, well, they just made him grow tomatoes, like legit, we might as well try and over the government and we might not get caught if we're not as brazen as these people.

[A]

But I feel like a lot of people who do especially like farmers or anybody doing their passion, like, I feel like you only start scamming one if you're just like. That's in your nature. But I think a. I say maybe it's like 60, 40. I think that 60% of people who get into scamming, like, they kind of of just like need the money, are fine with the risks. And then there's like a 40% who are like, I love crime and this is what I'm gonna do.

[B]

And I don't. And I'm a sociopath and I don't have any. Yeah, I don't. I don't really care about other people.

[A]

But the government steals from us all the time. The Pentagon can't account for trillions of dollars.

[B]

Well, it's also messy too, because as I'm sitting here saying like, no, put him in prison, it's like. I don't know, you know, because it's like there's too many goddamn people in prison as it is. But it is. But I don't know what to do. How do you stop people, People from tomato scams? You know, it's like, what? Deincentivize. That kind of thing. And I don't. I don't know, you know, I feel.

[A]

Like an ankle monitor and having to work their own crops and stuff for six years. At least we're all getting food out of it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know what I mean?

[B]

Well, yeah, Government work farms make them actually grow the tomatoes.

[A]

Take it back. I take it back because that would quickly turn into more slavery for me. We already have so much. No, no, no.

[B]

I'll take you around the run. No, no, I will not everyone growing tomatoes. No.

[A]

Then I'm gonna be like, yeah, if you steal a car, you gotta make license plates. Oops. They're already doing that in prison. No, no, no, no. Terrible idea. What happened to me? What happened to. Oh, my God. Get out of me, capitalist man.

[B]

Oh, no, get the.

[A]

Wait, I gotta say. Agent here. Oh, what was that? The man got me for a second.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I said Uncle Sam too many times, and he appeared like. Yeah. He came on my shoulder I said his name too many times. He said, we want you. And I was like, okay, all right.

[B]

I like to be wanted.

[A]

I do love to be wanted. So we're gonna just run through some more of the crimes they did real quick. So.

[B]

And this is after.

[A]

Yes, after. Shortly after his release, Robert, the husband in this scheme, embarked on a scheme to evade currency reporting laws by making a series of cash bank deposits of less than $10,000.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

So he was avoiding them getting the tax because the deposit was less than 10. And it started while he was serving probation in a halfway house. Now you are in the halfway house, you halfway out of jail and you one foot back in. So that's two feet.

[B]

Fish gotta swim.

[A]

So he owed the government millions of dollars. Right. In forfeiture money. So he was attempting to hide the cash that he did have because he didn't want to pay the government back. Of course. So he deposited more than 200,000 at RBC bank after his release from prison in November 2012. An amount small enough to avoid having the transactions reported under the Bank securities act or Bank Secrecy act, banks are required to file, you know, to the internal new. They have to tell the irs, like oh, they getting money. And the IRS is like word, let's call them. Yeah. And he was like, I'm not going to tell the irs. I don't want them to know I'm getting money. So.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yes. And I, I do really hate that about the IRS and the banks, cuz they're like, oh, you got money. Okay, yeah, we got to tell somebody.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And if you ever need to like withdraw a large amount of cash, woo. The bank will be like, no, come back on Thursday. Oh no, Thursdays we close at 9am like they did not want to give you your money.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So bank records show that Robert deposited $208,000 over five months. Why not just live your life? Cash. There's so many, like you can pay cash for your rent. So many places. You could like get a little one of those like little debit cards and put cash on it. Prepaid for online purchases for. Why am I trying to help you?

[B]

I don't know. I don't have the mind of a tomato baron.

[A]

I don't either.

[B]

Tomato gang.

[A]

So he had asked the teller how much he could deposit without the bank having to file a report once. And the teller told him that's why everything he did was didn't exceed $9,000.

[B]

Is that what it is? It's nine grand now? Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

So as long as it's under 10k.

[B]

Yeah. 89.99. Yeah. Every time.

[A]

89.999. But I love the teller being like, not like, well, so what do you mean by that? The teller's like, yeah. No, so under 9,000. You Gucci?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You want some deposit slips? And if you come in on a Friday at the end of the month, we ain't gonna check that till Monday. So you could do a double Dr.

[B]

Right? And also go look it up at the library. Because if you're asking a teller that, you're. You're basically telling the teller, hey, I want to scam. You know, like, okay.

[A]

But the job, the teller's job is telling. I think she's just telling to the customers. I don't know if she's telling the government.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, but I mean, if I. If that was a question, I wanted to know because I wanted to hide money. I would. I would find out then. Just like walking into the mix.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Hello. I was wondering, if I was going to do something nefarious, what cash level would I have to stay under?

[A]

Oh, sir, please take my pen.

[B]

I'm not going to do that. Of course.

[A]

Take that pen with the chain and just write down the nefariousness. Just write and then slip it under the glass.

[B]

89.99.99. Perfect.

[A]

Oh, yes.

[B]

See you tomorrow.

[A]

Yep, see you tomorrow. Now this is great. Yes. Come in and do your crime. Sir, you have a great day. Thank you for banking with us. Thank you for doing crime with us. We appreciate it.

[B]

No, please do come again.

[A]

Crime again. Okay, so wrapping this up, a bank manager told an IRS investigator she witnessed Warren, this is Robert, making deposits of older $20 bills that were rubber banded, wrapped in aluminum foil, and freezing cold. No, the bank manager, the Taylor told it. The teller was like, why this money so ice cold? I would be like, my assets were frozen and now they thawed.

[B]

Also, dummy, ding dong, take them out of the freezer the night before. Jesus Christ. Like you can't be bothered to unwrap the foil.

[A]

It's like if you make counterfeit money and you give it to people. Hot off the press.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Smell the ink, right?

[A]

It smudged a little bit when I held it. No, no, no, no, no, no. That's from the government. It was in my back pocket right.

[B]

Out of the oven.

[A]

I keep all my money in my crotch area, so that's all it was. It's just crotch dollars.

[B]

It's just moist.

[A]

Oh, no. Moist. Yeah. He was tripping. And older $20 bills don't keep going to the same bank branch then. Cause yeah, there are. There's so many newer 20s in circulation that that might catch somebody's eye. So sometimes the cash, he cash Warren deposited smelled stale and musty. Not you was bringing in the stanking ass cash. Yeah, you better febreze that cash before you bring it in. That's why the tellers got tired of him.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

They were getting hot wet stanky ass cash.

[B]

Right? Well it sounds like he was hot hiding like while they were stealing the government money before they got caught, they were hiding money. Yeah, hiding it in a freezer. But the musty. I wonder if that's like. I don't know if there was buried money. If it was in a mattress.

[A]

You're supposed to keep your. Your hidden money like pristine and in like a chest.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

No, this sounds like it was given freezer. But then like.

[B]

Like the cocaine, you know down in, in Colombia they would like bail pallets of money and then bury it and it would come, you know, like they'd wrap it in plastic enough.

[A]

It was literally dirty money.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Oh, but it was clean. Cause they wrapped it in plastic.

[B]

It was completely wrapped in plastic. Yeah, you see footage of it. It's like unbelievable how much money that they. Well they just had to get rid of so much cash.

[A]

Where is his Saran Wrap?

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

He was using aluminum foil. This is such a husband thing to do of like you definitely grew up as a young boy and never did any chores. Don't know how to do your own laundry. Like how have no cooking skills. If your wife tell you to put away the spaghetti, you put the whole pot it was cooked in in the fridge. It's giving that activity if you.

[B]

Well but also to be fair too, Saran Wrap does not hold up well in the freezer. Not as well as foil.

[A]

That's I guess. Is that true?

[B]

I think yeah. Yeah.

[A]

I mean maybe not a freezer if it's gonna have stuff in it and have mildew or turn the freezer off. I don't know what to tell you, but I definitely know that now these bank tellers would have let you live if you had this sketchy ass deposits going on. But the money wasn't stanking rusty wet. Yeah, no. If I'm a bank teller and I gotta come in every day and count the money and it's my hands are touching money all the time. Money's already dirty enough. You got nasty booty money.

[B]

Like no, just Febreze it.

[A]

Yeah, Febreze the money or Lysol the money. That kills the germs, and the germs kill the odor. We're trying to help you. So when the USDA investigation started in 2001, Robert began burying stacks of $20 bills wrapped in aluminum fo, then cloth bags, then stuffed in PVC pipes. This is where the PVC came in, which made them invisible to metal detectors. That's why he started depositing when he got out of prison. A judge ruled the crime was a violation of his release on the previous conviction, and he was sentenced to 29 more months in prison. PVC pipes is so smart. You couldn't have been smarter with the aluminum situation. You put this in the ground, the ground is wet.

[B]

Well, if you seal a PVC pipe, it's not going to get in there. If you put it, you know, if you end cap it and. And, And. And glue it. Yeah, I mean, they're water pipes, so they're watertight. You know, they run through your house and they don't leak. So. Yeah, no, that's good. It's good to know it's the money. I think all your listeners should, like, file that away for if they ever need to hide something, bury PVC pipes.

[A]

Well, regardless, he did successfully hide the money until he started bringing all that wet money places. Yeah, yeah. Goodness, Robert. And your wife, what was her name? Cause, Robert, it seems like you were doing most of the crime. I'm glad you got a lesser sentence here because you were really out here.

[B]

Her name was Shirley.

[A]

Let's call her Shirley. No, her name is Vicki.

[B]

Vicky.

[A]

Her name's Vicky. But I'm glad that Vicki doesn't seem to be involved in those specific shenanigans.

[B]

Convicty.

[A]

Congrats. That was beautiful, Andi. And on that note, yes, we have reached the end of the podcast.

[B]

Oh, well, thank you for having me.

[A]

Thank you for being here. You're fantastic. We always ask, where would you like to be found? Anything you want to plug?

[B]

Well, I have a podcast called the Three Questions, and I also do a Sirius XM radio show on Wednesdays. Andy Richter calling, which is a lot of fun, very silly, and I'm going to be involved in a television show coming up that I've been told I can't say, but if you are watching television, you may see me.

[A]

Yes. If they haven't already answers, you may.

[B]

See me shaking my ass. Let's just put it like that.

[A]

Okay. Yes, we love to see. We're gonna love to see it.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. And as always, Congregation, you can find all the photos of these farms and these manufactured hail storms at Scam Got his pod on Instagram if you want to chat with me. Scam got his pod on Twitter if you want to follow me and my shenanigans. D I V A L A C I Diva Lacey on all platforms. My book is available now where books are sold and where audiobooks are sold. All the episodes of Scam Got a Season 1 are now airing on Hulu, and all the episodes of Going Dutch are airing now on Hulu as well. And we are currently shooting season two of that show. And y' all. Seriously. Okay, if you want to do something nice for a black lady today, get on your podcast app and like and subscribe and leave a nice review of how much you love me. Okay. And I'm. Maybe I'll start reading these reviews on the show. Y' all can't be writing nothing crazy, but, you know, I might read the review.

[B]

I don't know, read the comments.

[A]

Yeah, I might read it on the show. Maybe I'll read some. No, I'm not even gonna say that, but okay, Congregation, I want y' all to get out there, stay convicting. Don't get convicted, though. Have conviction. Scam Goddess stars and is hosted by me, Lacey Mosley, AKA Scam Goddess. Our producer is Jessica Cisneros, and our audio engineer is Rich Garcia. Research for the show is conducted by Kate Doyle. Stay scheming.

[B]

Explore the world's hidden wonders on the Atlas Obscura podcast. A village in India where everyone's name is a song. A boiling river in the Amazon. A spacecraft cemetery in the middle of the ocean. Every day, the Atlas Obscura podcast will blow your mind in 15 minutes. You can find it on the SiriusXM app Pandora or wherever you get your podcasts. And don't forget to follow the show so you never miss an episode.

[A]

The search for truth never ends. Introducing June's Journey, a hidden object mobile game with a captivating story. Connect with friends, explore the roaring twenties and enjoy thrilling activities and challenges while supporting environmental causes. The adventure continues with our Immersive Travel Travels feature. Explore distant cultures and engage in exciting experiences. There's always something new to discover.

[B]

Are you ready?

[A]

Download June's Journey now on Android or iOS.