Fraud Friday: Fraud van Gogh w/ Jonathan Van Ness

Summary

Scam Goddess Podcast Summary

Episode: Fraud Friday: Fraud van Gogh (w/ Jonathan Van Ness)
Release Date: January 10, 2025
Host: Laci Mosley (Scam Goddess)
Guest: Jonathan Van Ness
Duration: Approximately 58 minutes

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1. Introduction & Guest Welcome (00:00 - 02:44)

The episode kicks off with Laci Mosley, aka Scam Goddess, introducing the show and welcoming Jonathan Van Ness as the guest. Laci sets the stage for "Fraud Fridays," a segment dedicated to revisiting classic scam stories from the podcast's archives. Jonathan brings his vibrant energy to the conversation, expressing excitement about the episode and teasing the deep dive into historical scams.

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2. Kat Dennings’ Glamour Shots Scam (02:44 - 08:55)

Key Discussion:
Kat Dennings shares her personal experience working at Glamour Shots in the mid-2000s. She describes her role as a front-line employee tasked with attracting customers to the Glamour Shots booth in the Mall of America. Kat reveals the deceptive tactics used by the company to upsell customers into expensive packages, ultimately leading them to take out loans to afford services they didn't need.

Notable Quotes:

• Kat Dennings (05:30): "I had to stand in front of the Glamour Shots and flag walkers by to be like, would you like to get your glamour shots today?"
• Jonathan Van Ness (08:03): "It's a scam. Like having someone refinance their home for some photos."

Kat elaborates on how her commission was minimal compared to the exorbitant prices customers were charged, highlighting the manipulative sales strategies employed by Glamour Shots.

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3. Breaking Down the Glamour Shots Scam (08:55 - 16:09)

Key Discussion:
The conversation deepens as Jonathan and Kat dissect the Glamour Shots scam. They discuss the unethical practices, such as selling life-sized cutouts and unnecessary dental work, which forced customers into financial distress. Kat expresses her regret over participating in the scam and emphasizes the importance of ethical practices in sales.

Notable Quotes:

• Kat Dennings (06:54): "They gave them some clicking teeth, honey, to. And they really, like, they just really gave them a full transformation."
• Jonathan Van Ness (12:27): "Like door to door only fans is amazing to me. I want that. I want to be a part of that."

Kat also shares an amusing anecdote about enforcing dress codes at Glamour Shots, illustrating the rigid and dehumanizing work environment.

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4. Historic Hoodwinks: The Keane Art Fraud (16:09 - 51:23)

Key Discussion:
Jonathan introduces the "Historic Hoodwinks" segment, focusing on the infamous art fraud involving Walter and Margaret Keane, famously portrayed in the film Big Eyes. This historical deep dive uncovers how Walter Keane fraudulently took credit for his wife Margaret's artwork, which featured distinctive big-eyed children.

Notable Quotes:

• Jonathan Van Ness (26:45): "Walter Keene's Big Eye paintings could be found on postcards at every grocery store and pharmacy in the 1960s."
• Kat Dennings (33:28): "I can't believe I predicted the paint off, you guys. I didn't even know that."

The discussion covers the origin of the Keane scam, detailing how Walter exploited societal and gender norms of the time to pass off his wife's talent as his own. They delve into the abusive dynamics of their marriage, Walter's eventual downfall, and Margaret's fight for recognition, culminating in their iconic court paint-off where Margaret ultimately exposed the deceit.

Notable Insights:

• The scam thrived in a period when women had limited autonomy, allowing Walter to manipulate and control the narrative around their artwork.
• Margaret's resilience and eventual triumph highlighted the importance of perseverance and truth in overcoming fraud.

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5. Scammer of the Week: Tina Kumar’s Credit Card Scam (51:23 - 54:24)

Key Discussion:
In the "Scammer of the Week" segment, Jonathan presents a contemporary scam where Tina Kumar's credit card account was fraudulently associated with 70 different individuals. This unusual and large-scale fraud raised questions about security loopholes within Chase Bank's credit system.

Notable Quotes:

• Jonathan Van Ness (52:52): "So, Tina, I don't think that you're this, you guys scammed here like you're not the scammer of the week."
• Kat Dennings (53:01): "So what the hell was that about?"

They speculate on the nature of the scam, considering possibilities of insider involvement and systemic failures within the banking institution that allowed such a breach to occur without immediate red flags.

Notable Insights:

• The case underscores the importance of vigilant monitoring of financial statements.
• It highlights the evolving complexity of scams in the digital age, where large-scale identity fraud can impact numerous unsuspecting victims simultaneously.

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6. Conclusion & Promotions (54:24 - 58:27)

The episode winds down with final thoughts from Jonathan and Kat, reiterating the importance of staying informed and vigilant against scams. They briefly mention upcoming projects and encourage listeners to follow their respective ventures.

Notable Quotes:

• Jonathan Van Ness (56:08): "Congregation, Stay scheming. Scam Goddess."
• Kat Dennings (58:19): "Have you ever seen a movie that's so bad that it's actually good? Eh? That's what we're talking about."

Listeners are reminded to visit the Scam Goddess website for more information and to engage with the podcast community via email for reporting scams.

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Key Takeaways:

• Ethical Awareness: Kat Dennings' account of working at Glamour Shots serves as a cautionary tale about unethical sales practices and the importance of integrity in business.
• Historical Fraud: The Keane art fraud illustrates how societal norms and personal relationships can be manipulated to perpetrate large-scale scams, emphasizing the need for transparency and accountability.
• Modern Scams: Tina Kumar’s credit card fraud highlights the vulnerabilities in banking systems and the necessity for robust security measures to protect consumer information.
• Vigilance: Across all segments, the episode stresses the importance of being proactive in identifying and reporting fraudulent activities to safeguard personal and financial well-being.

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Final Thoughts:

This episode of Scam Goddess masterfully intertwines personal anecdotes with historical and modern fraud cases, offering listeners a comprehensive look into the world of scams. With engaging dialogue, insightful analysis, and a touch of humor from Jonathan Van Ness, the podcast delivers both entertainment and valuable lessons on fraud prevention.

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Stay Scheming!
If you have experienced a scam or have information to share, contact the Scam Goddess community at [e-mail].

Transcript

[Lacey Mosley]

ABC Tim Allen and Kat Dennings star in the new family comedy Shifting Gears.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Dad, I'm broke and I need a place to stay until I figure out what the rest of my life looks like. So a couple of days when his.

[Lacey Mosley]

Daughter moves back in.

[Kat Dennings]

The last time you walked out that door, you looked back at me and gave me a double bird.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

I was 18. The double bird was how I ended all our conversations.

[Lacey Mosley]

The wheels come off.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Can we try to talk to each other like rational adults?

[Kat Dennings]

Have you watched the news lately? That's not a thing anymore.

[Lacey Mosley]

New Wednesdays, 8, 7 Central on ABC and stream on Hulu.

[Kat Dennings]

When living with cancer, it's important to be informed and know what to expect. But finding the right information can feel overwhelming. That's why understandcancertogether.com is here to help. We've gathered practical information and resources based on where you are in your cancer journey so that you can focus on the important conversations and decisions of today. UnderstandCancerTogether.com helping you navigate life with cancer one moment at a time.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

What's poppin Congregation? It's your girl, Lacey Mosley, AKA Scam Goddess. Welcome to an episode of Fraud Fridays where we release older episodes from the Scam Goddess vault. That's right, Fraud Fridays is where we bring back your favorite episodes from behind the Paywall. Enjoy this episode from behind the Paywall. And as always, stay. Stay Scheming Goddess. What's poppin Congregation? It's your girl, Lacey Mosley, AKA Scam Goddess. Back with another installment of Scam Goddess, the podcast that celebrates robbery fraud. Well, most of it. And the people participate. Guys, I'm very. What? Yes, I'm extremely excited for today's guest. This is a huge get. I feel like I scammed them. You know, you gotta stalk a little bit every now and then. You gotta be in a bush every now and then in the middle of the night to get an amazing podcast guest. And I'm willing to do that for you all. Okay, today we have an Emmy nominated television personality, comedian, best selling author, podcaster, hair stylist and hair care innovator. Check out their Earwolf podcast and Netflix show at the same damn time. Getting curious with Jonathan Van Ness and also Queer Eye. Don't forget to check out their hair Care Line, JVNhair, and their new book entitled Love that Observations from a Gorgeously Queer Life. Congregation, please welcome Jonathan Van Ness to the show.

[Kat Dennings]

Jonathan, hi. Thanks for having me. I just had this daydream when you were doing that intro that like wouldn't that be really funny if when I started talking, I had, like, a really straight man voice. All of a sudden they were like, wait, who is this? I was like, hel, thanks for having me. That was. That's as close to a straight man voice as I can do. I can't really do it.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Did it go, like, kind of Italian? You're like, hello, thanks for having me.

[Kat Dennings]

Hello. I don't know what it is. I don't know who I am. Yeah. I don't know. Lacey. Yeah. By, like, Bernie Sanders is a straight man. I don't know. I don't know. Who is that?

[Jonathan Van Ness]

I know that was. It was a very. I love that, though. I love the. I feel like if anybody is aggressively straight, it's probably a New Jersey accent or, like, a Boston accent. Yes, those accents.

[Kat Dennings]

Yes. Northeastern.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Right. But wait, I have to say. So, Jonathan, you have a lot of jobs, and normally, to me, that indicates we might have, like, maybe a scammer or at least somebody who enjoys a scam on our hands. Because you have several employments.

[Kat Dennings]

I do have several employments. I. I don't know about, like, a scam that, like, I. Well, okay. When I think, well, you haven't even gotten there yet. But I was, like, really racking my brain for scams, and I do feel like I did take part in one that I feel bad about sometimes.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Okay, listen, we all. We all stray. We all have to do what we have to do.

[Kat Dennings]

But I only did it for, like, for, like, seven days.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Okay, so now I'm super curious what I have to say before we get into that. Congratulations on your Emmy nomination again for Queer. That's amazing.

[Kat Dennings]

Thank you.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

That is so amazing. I'm so excited for you.

[Kat Dennings]

I know. I can't believe it.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

I mean, who's out here making the girls cry more than this is us. You.

[Kat Dennings]

They're snub. I can't believe Mandy Moore didn't get a fucking nomination.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

I heard it was because of you.

[Kat Dennings]

No, we're not even up for the same thing.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

I know. I'm messing with you, but. But, no, but that's amazing. So, yeah, you're right into it. What is your relationship with Scams Jack?

[Kat Dennings]

First of all, I'm, like, so gullible that I, like, thought you were, like, dead serious. I was like, no, no, no. Because, you know, she's, like, the lead actress where I was like, you're so sweet. I was like, you're like, no, I.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Love Walk to Remember. I remember that.

[Kat Dennings]

Oh, it was really good. I cried. Her fringe Actually, her bangs made me cry in that movie. That fringe was like, what. Like, what were we going through in that era anyway?

[Jonathan Van Ness]

She was going through a lot. That's why she had the bang.

[Kat Dennings]

She was. Yeah, she was and she really was. But this is really shameful for me to admit, but I worked at Glamour Shots for a whole week, and I did. And it was before I went into hair school and I had the worst job. I had to be the person in the front of the Glamour Shots. Like, I was in the Mall of America, honey. Not the Mall of America. The Mall of America.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Now, is that the big one?

[Kat Dennings]

The big one.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Okay.

[Kat Dennings]

And. And I had to stand in front of the. The thing and I had to like, flag walkers by to be like, would you like to get your glamour shots today? Like, you get your hair and makeup. You get like a full glam situation. Like, we got clothes coming in. So that was my only job. Like, once I got them in that and then I went on to the next. Right. Like, I didn't. Like, I didn't do anything for them, like, throughout the process. Right.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

So you disappear. So you roped them in.

[Kat Dennings]

I disappear. I rope them in. And these really sweet ladies who said they were sisters, but I believe them to be a lesbian couple, you know, because this was like 2004 or. No, it was 2005. It was like a different era, you know?

[Jonathan Van Ness]

But if you're a lesbian couple, would you just be like you besties? Like, that's what we do in the black community. You got that one auntie who always bring her roommate. And they always wearing white linen. But I haven't heard of saying we're sisters. Like, why sister make it out?

[Kat Dennings]

I feel like they were like, yeah, they were like, this is my sister. And. But then they wouldn't really dislike. But they ended up they. Because the whole thing was. Is that like. And I learned this. I wonder if Glamour Shots is still in business. Whatever. Maybe we bleep glamour shots like Beatrix Kiddo. But like. Or maybe we don't put them on blast because this is fucked up. So basically, they sell you, like, the biggest bundle first and then like, walk you down from there, right?

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Yeah.

[Kat Dennings]

So these little. These, you know, ladies, they had like six teeth between both of them and they gave them little flippers, honey. So they gave them like, they had some, like, little fake things.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Gave you teeth.

[Kat Dennings]

They gave them some clicking teeth, honey, to. And they really, like, they just really gave them a full transformation. And then they sold them a package that had like, life size Cutouts, like, all of these things. They had to go to the bank in the Mall of America to remortgage their trailer, honey. I got, like, an $800 commission. They sold them, like, an $8,000 package where they had to go, like, take out a dang loan. And they did. Like, they did. And so then when they left, they were like, you just made $800? And I was like, what? They had to remort, like. And so then, like, two days later, there was a company meeting, honey. And, like, the general manager was in, like. Or like the district manager, right? And you're supposed to wear black or white, right? But I wore this stunning black and white turtleneck that was like the snow on TV would be like, you know, so, like, the TV goes like, black and white. You know, I wore that. I was like, that is like little black and white, like, thread. It was gorgeous. And this fudgeing heterosexual man got in my face and was like, do you not know the meaning of black and white?

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Do you not what you're wearing?

[Kat Dennings]

No, I'm sorry. Do you not. You're so right. Black or white? He said black or white because he had Michael Jackson.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Black was that.

[Kat Dennings]

And so he was like, you have to go buy a new shirt if you want to work here. And I was like, okay. And so then I just left. I just, like, walked out, never went back. I was like, I'll be back in 10 minutes. And then I just left. So I left the scam early. I was there for a good seven days. I got, like, one, like, $890 paycheck, and then I never went back. Darling. I couldn't stand it.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Darling. Okay, see, I can tell you're super sweet because this is just you being employed, which is a scam, technically, but. But the fact that you were like, oh, this is just so horrible. Like, you teed it up like, you go tell me you were out here, I don't know, playing three card Monty or stealing from elderly people and.

[Kat Dennings]

Oh, no, I didn't do that. What. What is like. I mean, I know.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

I love this because it is a scam. Like having someone refinance their home for some photos. Okay, do they at least get to take the fake teeth with them? Because then it's like they got a new dental job.

[Kat Dennings]

But they were like. They were like. They were like glued on flippers. They were like these, like, teeth you had to, like, glue. They were just like. It was like a retainer that teeth on the outside where the top was pink and the Bottom were white things, and you put glue in there, and you just, like, clicked it into whatever was in there. They were, like, temporary, like flippers.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

I love the glamour shots. Was like, oh, yeah, we doing dental work, too. We do braces. We come to glamour shots. We do acrylic tee. So apparently there's, like, five stores still. Like, still five glamour shots around. So you can y'all go get y'all. Why y'all going to the dentist? You can get your teeth did at glamour shots.

[Kat Dennings]

Glamour shots. They really are doing the most. You know, I have to say they did great hair and makeup. I mean, they were giving you. And before 2005, I mean, everybody who was anybody had a glamour shots.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Honey, I got my BBL at glamour shots. They doing it all. Oh, Brazilian butt lift. They doing it all over there, which I want both times.

[Kat Dennings]

Really? They really are. What else is like, a skip? Oh, bleach and tones are a scam. Like bleach. Like, bleach and tones are a scam. I feel like I like, because people come into the salon, like, wanting a bleach and tone, and you're like, girl, that's like Photoshop, and, like, it's Photoshop and it's extra extensions, and their roots are yellow, but they Photoshopped it white. Like, her hair doesn't look like that.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Like, they Photoshop hair. Okay, see, I know they Photoshop here, where they, like, put pieces, because, you know, when I do Photoshop color, they'll put your face on another body.

[Kat Dennings]

Oh, yeah. Density. They'll Photoshop everything. So, like, every color. Like, yes. So short story. Yes. So when you bring, like, a picture of a magazine into your hairdresser, you're like, I want this. What I would say to people is like, well, what part do you want to start with? Because there's $10,000 of Photoshop, there's $5,000 of extension that Glamour team taught or charge. I don't need.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

But, Jonathan, you're not doing glamour hair. You're not giving a permanent Photoshop when they leave the hair salon.

[Kat Dennings]

I mean, people sometimes just have, like, really big expectations, honey. Like, really big expectations. Like, I'm a hairdresser. I'm not a plastic surgeon. I'm not a doctor miracle worker. I'm not. I'm a colorist, which is a artist. Okay, I'm an artist. I'm not a doctor.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Right, you're an artist. Yes.

[Kat Dennings]

I.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

It was interesting to me about that couple because I. Now I'm thinking about them so fondly. These sisters are they really cute.

[Kat Dennings]

They were.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

What did they do with these cutouts?

[Kat Dennings]

You know, I was wondering that. I was wondering that when I heard the story. I was like, where are they going to put that? But I mean they got like hundreds of wallet size, like you know, sheets and sheets of sheets of like the wallet cutouts and like eight by tens and like life size cutouts. They got like, like trays. Like trays with like the pic. Like they got everything you could get.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Like put it on a T shirt, put it on a pillow, panties.

[Kat Dennings]

Give me the max. Give me the max.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

We want a couch with our photos on it. I love this. What if they started a business? It's giving business. Like they took these glamour shots and their new dental work and hair and clothes and maybe they started a business.

[Kat Dennings]

They did like a before only fans. Like it was like, like, like early 2000.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Like door to door only fans.

[Kat Dennings]

Yes, door to door only fans. Can I interest you in this like cardboard cutout? But it wasn't that sexy because they were very, you know, very.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Yeah, y'all having dinner.

[Kat Dennings]

And those outfits and those outfits that we. That they left in that or that they work. They didn't leave in them. But their outfits. They would have scared somebody. There was boas, there was cowboy hats.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Were your local. Probably lesbians. But maybe sisters. And we just want to know if you wanted some personalized photos of us. Like a subscription. We come to your house every Thursday during dinner and give you glamour shots of us. Like a door to door only fans is amazing to me. Like I want that. I want to be a part of that.

[Kat Dennings]

And maybe it was safe back then to do that. I don't know. You know?

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Yeah, you can't door to door only fans anymore. You can barely cut coat knives. Which was already weird.

[Kat Dennings]

Couldn't do it in 2005 either. Or like I don't think you could ever really safely door to door, you know, it's like, I mean look, the.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Girlies are still door into dooring. They definitely were in 2005. It's how you do it now. I don't understand but I love that. I love that for them. I hope that they started a beautiful scam business to together. That is my prayer. But guys, we're gonna take a quick break for some non scam advertisements. We'll be back with our next segment. What is hot and fraud scams, y'all. We made it. We made it through another holiday season. And personally, I think it's time for us to treat ourselves and y'all know when I want to treat myself then I'm going to quince cuz I can treat myself without hurting my poor poor bank account. All quince Items are priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands because they partner directly with top factories to cut the and the middleman. And we love that. And of course they use premium fabrics and finishes for that luxury feel in every single piece. And right now I am obsessed with the organic heavyweight fleece. I just got it in the concord and in the tan. Like sometimes I talk about quints like a family member. It's wild because it's so cozy on my body. That is why I love quints. Treat yourself this winter without the luxury price tag. Go to quince.com goddess for 365 day returns plus free Shipp on your order. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com goddess to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quints.com goddess ABC Wednesdays, Tim Allen and.

[Lacey Mosley]

Kat Dennings star in the new family comedy Shifting Gears.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Dad, I'm broke and I need a place to stay until I figure out what the rest of my life looks like. So a couple of days.

[Lacey Mosley]

I love it when his daughter moves back in.

[Kat Dennings]

The last time you walked out that door, you looked back at me and gave me a double bird.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

I was 18.

[Kat Dennings]

The double bir bird was how I.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Ended all our conversations.

[Lacey Mosley]

The wheels come off.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Can we try to talk to each.

[Kat Dennings]

Other like rational adults?

[Lacey Mosley]

If you watch the news lately, that's.

[Kat Dennings]

Not a thing anymore.

[Lacey Mosley]

New Wednesdays, 8.7Central on ABC and stream on Hulu.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

And we're back. And it's time for what's Hot Infrared. This is where we warn our listeners about the scams that are popping in the streets. And more often than not these days, we get a letter from you guys. As always, snitch on your friends and [e-mail] just make sure the scam is retired because we don't want to what? Yes, fuck up your bag. Amen.

[Kat Dennings]

So, oh, I thought you were gonna say like become implicated in a crime.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Oh yeah, fuck up your bag. That's essentially what being implicated in a crime is. The police come in and they fuck up the bag or yeah, yeah, I.

[Kat Dennings]

Don'T wanna have to go testify. You know, that wasn't my email. You know.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Listen, also like I delete some of these cause I'm like, oh, this is a crimey crime. Like I can't be involved in this I never saw this. But today we're talking about something light, which I think is cute because, Jonathan, you're scammed. You're try scam is so light and cute and I love that you felt bad. But I also love these ladies and I hope that they're somewhere doing amazing with their glued teeth.

[Kat Dennings]

Yeah, they were like 50. And they're. They're totally alive. They're 100% alive. Unless like they felt like a tragic.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Unless they died. They're totally alive. Unless they died. But they definitely.

[Kat Dennings]

I bet they didn't.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

No, I know that they're out there living. They did.

[Kat Dennings]

Where are they? I hope they're okay. Please be okay.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Lord Jesus.

[Kat Dennings]

Lesbian Sisters.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

You know this song? This song?

[Kat Dennings]

It's my song.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Let's record it. Do it for Pride next year.

[Kat Dennings]

Okay.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Let's be okay.

[Kat Dennings]

Mix on it. Lesbian Sisters.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

I love it. Beautiful. So I need a fake name for this person. We don't care about gender on this podcast.

[Kat Dennings]

Vladislava.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Vladislava.

[Kat Dennings]

Vladislava. She's got a heart of gold. Her name is Vladislava and she is your person.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

So Vladislava says, hey girl, this is some bullshit and I feel bad. What a first sentence. Vladislava.

[Kat Dennings]

I love Vladislava's take on like American. Like she's so. Like she already gets it. Like she already gets all the terms. I love her.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

I only did it once. I was hanging out with this low life friend of mine in high school and at the food court in the Mile, she said to get a free meal, I should take a piece of my own hair and put it in the FR&Teriyaki dish that I had been eating at the end of my meal. So what? I love this vatislava. Cause you threw your friend under the bus. You did it. You said, I was hanging out with this low down, dirty skank bitch and she told me to do crime. Like, how you gonna put it all on your friend? Your friend was trying to get you a free meal. Your friend sounds benevolent and caring. Why you gotta call her low down? I don't like that Botislava.

[Kat Dennings]

I really needed a well placed skank. Like, I haven't heard someone say skank in like too long. That was like such a good word. And it need. I'm really glad it needs to come.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

It's comical. It's like calling somebody a goofy bitch. It's just funny. Okay.

[Kat Dennings]

So good. And it's like, not like I don't think it has any, like really fucked up. Like, it's just Like a good, like it's like a good word.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

It hits the ear, right too, like hussy, you know, you call somebody a hussy.

[Kat Dennings]

Did you say skank, bitch? Is that what you. Yeah, that's that really. That feels nice.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

It flows the way it flows off the tongue. And so I have this. Not with a little dance. I wish I could see Jonathan. He hit the shoulders. He hit him with the shoulders. I love it. But so also chicken teriyaki in the food court mall is a very specific memory for me. You worked in the Mall of America, so I would imagine that has to be too because you know, they'd be standing out there with the chicken on the stick getting the girls hooked.

[Kat Dennings]

I was an Auntie Ann's pretzel person. Those pretzels really, really do it for me.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

They do it for me too. The cinnamon sugar, even the pizza one. Like I can bust down on a auntie. I love auntie and her aunts, actually. Oh my God. Wow. So the first job that I ever had in New York, like professional performer job was a non union Auntie Ann's commercial for pretzel day. And I got the job. I auditioned in my apartment. I did self tape off backstage.com, which is low key, a scam. But also like if you just starting out, get involved, why not? See, you might get murdered or you might get, you might be backstage or you might be in a back alley. But, but you know, you gotta take that risk. So I like put the video camera on and like you were supposed to dance with a bag of pretzels. Now I don't dance with snacks no more because I'm black and I, I should have realized I shouldn't be dancing with, with products, you know, but at the time I'm trying to get my career off the ground. So I was out dancing with this bag. Just dance my heart out. And then I got the job. $250 Auntie Ann's press a day. My black ass dancing with pretzels. If I know where the pictures are, I will post these on the Instagram. But yeah, I used to be slanging them.

[Kat Dennings]

I have to tell you something really funny. We were doing a Queer Eye shoot the other day and our hero is this like really, really, really sweet, sweet black man who, I don't want to say too much, I can't give it away, but he's like at an ltr, you know, with his wifey. And we were looking at their kitchen and I was like looking at their kitchen table and I was like, oh, my God. Like, remember that show mad about YouTub? And then Karamo looked at me and he was like, honey, we're black. We don't watch that shit. And I was like. And I was like, no, I'm usually good about that thing. Like, dumb stuff like that. But I was just gonna say they fucked up.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

That's not dumb. Some black people watch Mad about you. He have to do you like that. He didn't have to do you think.

[Kat Dennings]

You think that that's true?

[Jonathan Van Ness]

He plays you. He plays you. Because I watched Mad about yout and Dharma and Greg and you know, I love me some tossed salad and scrambled eggs going again. He had to do you like that. Okay, Better, Lacy.

[Kat Dennings]

Because I was like, I don't think that like a lot of people. I mean, she won like five epis in a row. I'm sure. Why people watch Mad about You too.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Yeah, some of us was mad about her. You know, I just love that you could.

[Kat Dennings]

Or I just love that they fucked on that kitchen table so much. That's all I was trying to say. I just thought that was nice that a married couple would still want each other so much that they would throw the stuff off their kitchen table and fuck right there. That was so cute.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

I thought, that's sexy. I didn't even know that people really did that in real life. I thought that was just a movie thing where like, you know, in a movie when they have a sex scene and it's always like the straight couple, they, they. They pick the. The man picks the woman up and then they just start knocking everything off the counter and then they humping on the wall and then they on the floor and it just beat like the house looks like it went through a tornado afterwards. And I'm like, is anybody really having sex like that?

[Kat Dennings]

We don't do that. Cause our stuff is too cute. Like our, our, our. Our little like chotchky things on the counter. It's like all of it's way too cute. I do like being like firmly yet non violently picked up and pressed upon a wall. But like on. Yeah, I do like that.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

But I think it's even my good eggshell. Yeah, not on my.

[Kat Dennings]

It's even better when they're like enough to realize not fuck anything up. And it's like just on some drywall.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

You know, you got touch up paint dick. Do you have touch up paint dick? That's what I need to know.

[Kat Dennings]

Wait, what was the scam?

[Jonathan Van Ness]

So, the scam. So the scam is. Is that Vladislava is putting hair in her teriyaki, you know? Cause they used to slang the teriyaki on the block. On the mall block, they, like, get one of these toothpicks. Get into it.

[Kat Dennings]

It does.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Yeah. In your mouth, and I used to love that. I feel like they don't do that anymore. Everything is gone. You know, it's all gone.

[Kat Dennings]

We can't do samples anymore with COVID But, yes, they can do samples.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

I feel like they stopped because it was a good excuse to save some money when they know I want to suck on some chicken teriyaki in the mall while I'm at the Victoria's Secret. That's not right. Okay. Also, shout out to Adam Conover. Adam ruins everything. If you stay in a hotel. And then we're back on track. If you stay in a hotel, get room service. Because, you know, we're still kind of in the deep in the COVID situation. And so a lot of hotels have scaled back on room service, and they'll say, like, just call if you want it. And you think you're being a good person because you're like, oh, I'm not having the room clean, and I'm saving people from exposure or something. No, they're doing that so they can save money on not having to pay housekeepers. And the less that y'all call for room service, the less housekeepers that they have to hire, which leaves a lot of these people out of work. So if you're in a hotel, the right thing to do is call the girlies and be like, yes, I would like my towels and whatnot every day and let it happen so that they can have job security and stop taking.

[Kat Dennings]

Like, 20 minutes to get this coffee up here. Like, you need to hire more people, you know?

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Yeah, they're trying to skip out because they're like, oh, y'all, it's us, Mr. Hilton. We down bad and sad with the COVID So we only got four people on staff. Are y'all cool with not having no new towels? How many times can you wipe your ass with the same towel? Have you thought about that? Greta Thunberg would say, your whole stay.

[Kat Dennings]

Do you do stand up? Cause I need to come to your show. Like, you do it because you need to be doing it. Yeah, you are just. This is like, I've never had so much fun on a podcast, but that particular scam is giving me. I feel like they watch Heartbreakers. I feel like they were just really watching Jennifer Love Hewitt and Sigourney Weaver, like, live their Best lives.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

But it's such a cute, innocent thing. So I'm gonna say, vladislava, you shouldn't feel as bad about this as you do. She says so, you know, she putting the hair in there, and then at the end of her meal, she would bring it up to the people and show them the hair, and they would refund her the cost of the meal. It wasn't that cool of me. And that friend laughed and says, she does it all the time. And that's that me up. I didn't feel good about it. I was probably only 16 or 17. But if you're really broke as hell and need some food, I don't know. Just something I thought of. Love the show. Boo. Okay, Bodislava, are you a cancer? Like, what is your sign? Because it's giving. Like, you are so cute, girl. If you were broke and you needed your money more than the teriyaki man did, then go ahead and get your money back for that teriyaki bowl. Because they was giving out the teriyaki on the stick. They don't gave out the equivalent of like 50 of them bowls all day at the mall. I know. I took 10 samples. I walked away with a tray.

[Kat Dennings]

Yes. And it's not like the people that work there were getting paid commission.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Right. It's not like they're like, I can't feed my family because Bodislava stole another teriyaki bowl.

[Kat Dennings]

Meanwhile, you're gonna have, like, some manager of, like, that place. Like, actually, our sales numbers do get us bonuses. And so Vladislava did rat buck us. You know what I'm saying?

[Jonathan Van Ness]

We actually hate that bitch. And could you tell us where she lives? We're getting an angry mob together. All right, well, Vladislava, I think you're a good. You're a good person. And also, I think your friend is a good person. I think you need to call that friend and apologize because they was just trying to help you get involved in some crime.

[Kat Dennings]

Yes.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

And there's nothing wrong. I love a friend who gets me involved in some crimes. So, guys, we're gonna take another quick break for some non scam advertisements. And we'll be back with my favorite part of the show. Historic Hoodwinks Robbery.

[Lacey Mosley]

Prepare for the crime and investigation event of the new year with the premiere of two groundbreaking new series on A and E. Each week, hit the streets of the Big Easy with a dedicated team of detectives as they search for answers and justice in the gripping new series Homicide New Orleans. Then join an elite Mexican task force in their pursuit of American fugitives hiding south of the border in Fugitive Hunters Mexico homicide squad, New Orleans. New episode Thursdays at 9, followed by a new Fugitive Hunters Mexico at 10. Part of a crime and investigation event only on A and E. Watch now on the A and E app. Hey, I'm Paul Scheer.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

I'm June Diane Rayfield.

[Kat Dennings]

And I'm Jason Manzoukas.

[Lacey Mosley]

And we're the hosts of how did this Get Made? A comedy podcast where we deconstruct, make fun of and celebrate the best worst movies ever made.

[Kat Dennings]

Have you ever seen a movie that's so bad that it's actually good? Eh, that's what we're talking about.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

From blockbuster franchises and made for TV.

[Kat Dennings]

Romances to bonkers 80s action flicks and.

[Lacey Mosley]

Obscure sci fi musicals, we cover it all.

[Kat Dennings]

You can find. How did this get made? Wherever you get your podcasts and don't forget to follow the show so you never miss an episode. Idiot.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

And fraud. And we're back at. And it's time for my favorite part of the show, Historic hoodwinks. This is where I will regale Jonathan with a famous con caper group of criminals. And we'll figure out if we like them, if we hate them. We never know, right? I'm really excited for this because we have a rule. We always say this rule up top when we have amazing celebrities with huge followings. The scam is always a dead person. So that way no one can. I can't. I'm not responsible if a poltergeist comes for you, Jonathan. Now that's out of my.

[Kat Dennings]

I am waiting on bated breath for this scam.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Yes. So we do a note up top here because we don't scam our journalists. Much of the research from the story came From John Ronson's 2014 the Guardian article, the Big Eye Children, the extraordinary story of epic Art fraud. So, guys, we always put those links in the footnotes if you want to go read some more. Check it out. Educate yourself. The more you know. Okay, There is a content warning up top here too. This discussion. There's a discussion of emotional abuse in the story. So if perhaps this is not the day for that for you now you know. But you guys know I. We treat everything with care. We try not to get it too sad over here. Okay? We're true fun crime. Okay? So let's go. Walter Keene's Big Eye paintings could be found on postcards at every grocery store and pharmacy in the 1960s. Famous actors were patrons of his art and he gained fame as the creator of Melancholic Big Eyed Children. But no one knew his secret, one that only he and his wife, Margaret Keane knew. Okay, do we have a picture of one of these pieces of art with the big ey? Oh, so he was, like, doing, like, little anime babies. Wowers. Is this recent?

[Kat Dennings]

What's the secret? It was in the 60s. What was it? Well, he would.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

That he could draw. Well, no, there's. There's definitely a secret here, but nobody knew what it was at the time. So this is homeboy posing with a canvas. Giving artists. That's giving artists.

[Kat Dennings]

To me, it is giving artists, but it's also, like, giving me, like, after watching Morbid or listening to Morbid so much and just, like, watching all these, like, true crime documentaries, like, I don't know what the scam is. So my brain goes to pedophile. But you said that it was a fun crime thing, so it could be a pedophile.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Yeah, no, we do not cover.

[Kat Dennings]

We don't do pedophiles. What's his problem? What are you doing? What. What do you. What do you fuck up? I've been listening to too much Morbid.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Why are you so anxious right now?

[Kat Dennings]

Cause what's his problem with the babies that got eyes? And he's like a white man.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

So what?

[Kat Dennings]

What's he doing?

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Yo, we know we live in a crazy world where we're like a white. A straight white man drawing babies. We like, what's going on? We need to investigate. No, it has nothing to do with that. So in 1946, Walter Keane was in Berlin traveling to Europe to learn how to be a painter. According to his memoir, he found himself staring at the heartbreaking big eyed children fighting over food. Victims of the aftermath of the war, he would later recall. As if goaded by a kind of frantic despair, I sketched these dirty, ragged little victims of war with their bruised, lacerated minds and bodies and their matted hair and running noses.

[Kat Dennings]

Walter, this is giving survivors of war or something, you know?

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Yeah, Walter, this is giving. Like, you see people who need help, and you pull out your camera phone and start making the video so you can go viral. Because, like, if you see these children, I understand. Like, art, it definitely spreads. You know, art can be a political statement, and a lot of times is. And so maybe you can share these images with the world who may not realize the consequences of war that men love to do. Right, I get that, but I'm also like, did you help them at all? Did you get them some food? Or did you just sketch while they fought for the bread? I don't know. Just the way that he wrote it, I'm like, it's royal.

[Kat Dennings]

So he ripped it off like someone had already made these babies. And he stole the art?

[Jonathan Van Ness]

No. So he. At this time, all we know is that he saw the kids. He started painting the kids. He saw little Oliver Twist and was like, we.

[Kat Dennings]

I just wanna know why he's a swindler. Honey, what did he do?

[Jonathan Van Ness]

We're gonna get there.

[Kat Dennings]

Oh, my God.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

I have never had a guest this impatient. But the energy is so amazing that I love it. Everyone's gonna love it.

[Kat Dennings]

I'm dying to hear this story.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

So 15 years later, he found a purpose for his art. The recent invention of the American suburb gave many homemakers an earnest need to cover their blank walls. So when the girls were prosperous, the boomers who got houses for like $15 and a coca Cola, you know, they needed art in their houses. So we have a photo of a piece of art that he did and people are starting to like buy these right now. Personally, I don't know if I would want this sad ass photo in my house. Like, what do you want this above your coffee maker? Like just the saddest little baby? No, I do.

[Kat Dennings]

Like, I like the texture on the stair. It's just so saddy kids. And also when you said big eyed babies, I thought they were gonna be more like precious moments. Which are like, cute, right?

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Precious. He was like, let's do precious moments.

[Kat Dennings]

But emo creepy. Yes.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

What if all the precious moments were depressed? Like, what?

[Kat Dennings]

Yes, it's actually kind of Yoshitomo Nara, this Japanese artist who draws these like really big eyed creepy babies. But it's like this guy is doing like a less cool version of Yashitomonara.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Yeah, I feel like there's a place for this. I would look at it in an art exhibit, but I don't know if I want this in my house. Like, I'm not trying to wake up and see it. Just like the saddest baby when I wake up.

[Kat Dennings]

I like the cat, though I will say I like that cat.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Oh yeah, the cat is cute. If we could just crop the cat, I would maybe do the cat.

[Kat Dennings]

Yeah, the cat's nice.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Minnie chose Walter's melancholic big eyed children to put on their walls. So this is the 60s, everybody getting a house for $2. And they're like, we need paintings, we need art. So this is like before Ross probably. So people weren't buying. They r that Ross. They're like, what are we going? Where are we going to get it? Oh, sad babies. That's the move. Put them in our houses. So despite his melancholic subjects, Walter was known as a charming womanizer whose love of women only matched his love for himself. I don't know if Charmin and Womanizer should be in the same sentence. And they definitely shouldn't be consecutive like that. I feel like she's charming about a womanizer.

[Kat Dennings]

Well. Cause they do it at first, you know, they do it for you, but then they all of a sudden you're like, oh, no, you're a piece of shit. But at first they feel.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

At first it's all like. And then it's nicer. Then they start nazing you.

[Kat Dennings]

Yes. I hate a. You know, a nice person.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Like, I'm not trying to get nice. That's. That's terrible.

[Kat Dennings]

Can't you be nice?

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Right? Be nice. Don't be nice. I don't want to be nice. So meeting Margaret, according to Walter. So he's a big bachelor. He's just drawing sad babies and fucking. That's his whole life. Draw a sad baby, you know, pull another girl, you know, that's his life, right? So according to Walter, his first meeting with a woman who would become his wife took place outside an outdoor art exhibit in San Francisco in 1955, so. San Francisco, 1955. Very cool. He was still an unknown artist waiting for recognition. In his memoir, he said Margaret's first words to him were, I love your paintings. You are the greatest artist I've ever seen. You are also the most handsome.

[Kat Dennings]

Liar.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

That was her first words to you. She walked up and was like, hi. No, there's not even a hi. Her first words are, I love your paintings. You are the greatest artist I've ever seen. You are also the most handsome. You have big dick energy. Like, it's like that. She said all that? Not even, hi, my name is Margaret. Nothing else. She just. Okay, okay, maybe she did.

[Kat Dennings]

I wanted her. And when you were recapping it, I wanted it to be like. And I'm into anal, right?

[Jonathan Van Ness]

And I'm into anal. And I love cooking breakfast and lunch and dinner. And my passion is getting shit stains out of men's underwear when they don't wipe properly. Like. Like what? Like, who is this woman?

[Kat Dennings]

I cannot even.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Vacuuming makes me come. Do you want to?

[Kat Dennings]

I do feel like for queer couples or like men who have sex with men couples or like non binary people. Just. Or just. It's actually not because it's just like, when you're really into anal sex, I feel like you clean your butt better because you are terrified of your partner. Like, you just never would want them to see that because it's like they. That's like their. That's their playground is like your butthole. So, like, you don't want to be leaving skin marks anywhere because it's like, that's their playground. And you don't want you to know that your playground has shit in it.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

And I wish that everyone playground has shit in it. I wish that everyone would just do that because it's just the. Like, we should all just be clean all of the time. But yeah, no, that's like mortifying painting. But. But I will say I was in Hawaii and I had a Jackie toilet.

[Kat Dennings]

Sorry, but you were so right. That is like, wow. You really just made me realize something. I was like, only wanting to keep my asshole right for someone else. And, like, not for me, but not for you. And that fucked up.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Like, think about the confidence that you have walking out with a clean tan.

[Kat Dennings]

Yes, a clean tan. Just being like, you could eat me out right now and I would put. Feel so confident and why was I waiting? That is so fucking. I need Karamo. I need to go on Queer Eye. Like, I need the other fab four to, like, why have I. That is.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Wow, Lacey.

[Kat Dennings]

Wow. Do it for you. I would say do it for you.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Fleet for you. I'm coming out with a brand of fleets. I'm coming out with a line of fleets. Guys.

[Kat Dennings]

It's like kind of like a cleaner, like, reusable one than balloons. It's like, not. It's like, it's like, cleaner or. Ooh. Or. You know what we really need is someone to come out with, like, a cleansing solution for the inside of your things. Like, if.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Oh, like, so you can like, keep. So it's like reusable. Like the diva cup, where you can, like, reuse it and wash it.

[Kat Dennings]

Do they have reusable ones? But it's like, I.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

No one wants to deal with that. Yeah.

[Kat Dennings]

You know, it's like, I want. But it's like. But like plastic. Like, why does the environment have to suffer? Like, for our.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Once. Once a turtle has a. The fleet sucking its nose, they'll. They'll get wise.

[Kat Dennings]

Honestly, it already probably happens all.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Oh, my God.

[Kat Dennings]

No, it really does. And that's why we have to make douche cleansing solution. Like, cleansing solution for reusable douches. Lazy. And that is really important.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Okay, listen, it is it is also like, I, I feel like all of my reps would be like, this is such a weird pivot, but I want to come out with like an affordable Japanese toilet. Because that Japanese toilet, I was in Hawaii, I was sitting on it.

[Kat Dennings]

It's warm.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Every time you sit on it, the bidet is bideting. And like, I, like, I feel like I started it and I just shot off the toilet. It was. I don't want to be this like.

[Kat Dennings]

Out of touch celebrity, but after I got back from Japan, I got them all from my house. So I have. When you walk in, like, it sits up. Like when you walk in the room, it says, are you ready? It's always warm. This one. When I was in Japan, Donald Trump was in office, obviously, right.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Oh, God.

[Kat Dennings]

And I was like. And I used to get up at like 3:30 in the morning when we were filming Queer in Japan so I could go figure skating at like 4:30 in the morning. Because to go that early to be ready in case we were shooting, it's like. Cuz TV shows, they're so like worried about like when you live your life. So you have to like live your life like before they want to live, you know.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Yeah.

[Kat Dennings]

So I was just like, oh my.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

God, like a puppet. They're like, little meat puppet. We need you here early. Yeah.

[Kat Dennings]

And so I'm. I'm going to go do figure skating because I'll be so depressed if I don't. But I was reading about like that they were maybe gonna. They were thinking about like investigating Trump Jr. And I forgot that I turned the bidet on. So I was reading this like Newsweek article about like potentially like Ivanka and Donald Trump Jr. Like, getting investigated.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Yeah.

[Kat Dennings]

And I. And then there's like warm water was like just cleansing my asshole as I was reading this and I just had this huge smile on my face. And then I realized that I've been sitting there for like 10 minutes reading this article, just getting like this warm water blown up my ass.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Oh my God, what a spiritual experience. We're like, I'm reading the best news.

[Kat Dennings]

And getting my tank cleansed. Like you guys, if you haven't experienced that, it really is like, it's next level.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

You got it. Yeah. We got to make it more accessible.

[Kat Dennings]

$100 lacy, like that thing. It was like $1 and you just have to get a task rabbit to like install it. And you too can have like a.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Japanese toys are like $20,000.

[Kat Dennings]

No, girl, you. It's like a $100 thing that like Goes you, like, take your lid off and you replace your. You. You just take. You screw off the American part, and then you just. And it plugs in, and you too. It girl. It will blow dry your asshole and your vagina and your taint. It'll blow dry your privates. It. It blow dries, it cleanses. You can set it for front back.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

I didn't know that you could get it without buying the whole full, like, toilet pack.

[Kat Dennings]

Lady, I only have the top part, and it is for you. And maybe that's the universal reason that I did this podcast today with you, is that, like, you needed to know that they were at your fingertips.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

And now you know. Yes. Now they're at my booty tips. Thank you so much. I'm so excited. So. So, you know, Walter's saying that basically Margaret walked up to him and was like, you the baddest man. You the best. Right? Right. Later that night, he remembers that Margaret told him, you are the greatest lover in the world, Walter. Now, why you? I want to meet somebody and be like, I knew that this was my husband or my wife. They were like, you are so sexy, and you have the most beautiful man. Like, what is this? Like, all these compliments to yourself. What about your wife? You didn't notice if you knew that you were going to marry her when you met her. You're not talking about her smile that could light up a room. You not talking about her like, she had no way about her. It's just about how nice she was to you and how much you would have shit. Okay, Walter. It's giving conceit. Okay. They married soon after that first meeting, and he went on to have an incredibly successful career as an artist. So Margaret's account. This is how Margaret says it went down. So that's how Walter said. Walter said. Margaret came up and was like, oh, my God. You are the most talented artist with, like, the. The most delicious penis I've ever had in my life. And your paintings change my whole world. And I would like to work for you as a wife. Now, let's see what Margaret said happened. Margaret says it's a little different. She said. In the mid-1950s, Walter spent most of his time at a San Francisco beatnik club, the Hungry Eye. Famous comedians including Larry, Bruce and Bill Cosby. Oh. Performed on stage while he sold his Big Eye children paintings in front of the club. Now, if people are coming to a space to laugh, like you, outside, like, y'all want some paintings of the saddest children you've ever Seen ravaged by war. Before you go laugh at a nast man and another man. I guess this is a good strategy. One night, Margaret went to the club with him. He told her to sit in the corner while he conducted business. But when someone asked her, do you paint too? She realized that he was there to sell paintings. Her paintings. For the first year of their marriage, unbeknownst to her, Walter had been taking credit for her big eyed children. In actuality, Walter King couldn't paint to save his life.

[Kat Dennings]

So then what happened?

[Jonathan Van Ness]

So let's. Can you pull up that photo with Walter with that paint again? Cause it was giving prop. It was giving, like, look at me paint. Is it giving Bob Ross, y'all. Is it. Does it look like I painted this? He's not a painter.

[Kat Dennings]

So they get married and then he just took credit for her work?

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Yes, he was stealing her. So in his account. And the reason we did this. Thank you, Kalen, for burying the lead. Is Walter was telling everybody on the street, all the girls that, like, he's this talented artist. And when he said he met his wife, he was like, my wife was like, oh, my God, you are such a good painter and a good lover and you have the most money and the best dick and everything in the world. When in reality, he met this woman and realized that she was a great painter and then started selling her art as his own.

[Kat Dennings]

And then she went to that theater after dating him for a year and saw him selling her art.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

So these are the first years of their marriage. So while they're married now, he's like, oh, come to the comedy club. And then didn't realize that what he had. She's like, what you got in that bag? Don't worry about that. Don't worry about that. Just come to the comedy club. Be cute. And so she didn't realize that he's over there slanging her art and pretending that it's his. The secret.

[Kat Dennings]

What'd she do?

[Jonathan Van Ness]

So Margaret confronted him as soon as she found out and told him to stop. Walter tried to explain. Explain it first. We need the money. People are more likely to buy a painting if they think that they're talking to the artist. People don't want to think I can't paint and need to have my wife paint. People already think I painted the big eyes. And if suddenly I say it was you, it'll be confusing and people will start suing us. So he was like, come on, everybody already thinks I'm the painter now. We don't want to mess that up. For everybody and for us. Like, he basically gave her a bunch of excuses as to why he should be able to continue to pass off her art as his zone. He was like, we need the money, baby. Who gonna pay the light bill if I don't plagiarize your work?

[Kat Dennings]

So then what happened?

[Jonathan Van Ness]

So his solution was to have Margaret teach him how to paint big eyed children so he could take credit only for her ideas and not for her actual work. So now he's like, okay, well, teach me how to do it and then you won't. I won't be stealing from you anymore. So she tried to teach him, which Margaret, why don't you just get a divorce, child? And he failed. He might have been the best lover in the world because, Margaret, why are you staying? Did he have like a huge.

[Kat Dennings]

Really?

[Jonathan Van Ness]

He had touch up paint dick. That's what he's giving. So Margaret said, and when he couldn't do it, it was always my fault. You're not teaching me right. I could do it if you had more patience. I was really trying, but it was just impossible. No, you can't teach talent. Like, you can hone talent, but you can't teach somebody to have a skill that they don't have. Margaret wanted to leave, but she said she had no way to support herself or her daughter. Well, Margaret, you got your paintings, okay? So she went along with it, the supportive wife to her genius husband. Now, we do have to remember this is like the early 60s, 50s, so women, you know, barely had autonomy, didn't have any access to money, were essentially still property. And so she couldn't leave her husband. She had to let him keep scamming Walter's thriving career. By the early 1960s, keen prints and postcards were selling in the millions. Margaret, of course, saw none of the money, but she continued to paint and the family moved into a big, luxurious house. Walters took the opportunity to throw massive celebrity attention, attended parties while Margaret continued to paint 16 hours a day. He got his wife in a sweatshop in the basement, painted pictures while he upstairs being Great Gatsby, throwing scarves and yucking it up with celebrities.

[Kat Dennings]

I can't.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

They like Mar.

[Kat Dennings]

I can't with it.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

I just imagine. I just imagine he's like talking to people about his art. You hear like a. And they're like, what's, what's that, Walter? Oh, no, don't, don't worry about that. Don't, don't, don't worry about that. That's just my dog downstairs. What you need, Margaret? Sir? Can I have some more paint? Like I just imagine her like Oliver Twist in the basement, just painting all day.

[Kat Dennings]

So how does it end?

[Jonathan Van Ness]

So not even the house staff were aware of what she was doing with her day, her relationship also because they were so rich. Right. So her relationship changed with Walter and did the freedom as well. So the relationship, the freedom that she used to have, now she's basically an indentured painting servant to her husband, which is horrible. According to Martin. Margaret, the door was always locked, the curtains closed. When Walter wasn't home, he'd usually call every hour to make sure that I hadn't gone out. So this is abusive. He is now locking this woman up. It's like flowers in the attic, but it's the painter in the attic making the paintings. So the unhappy marriage then became more domineering and abusive while Walter lived a lush party life. And Margaret stayed locked inside painting away. Despite his many affairs, Walter didn't allow Margaret to have any friends and even abused her beloved Chihuahua so much that they had to give it away. Walter, you are a nasty man. You are a horrible person. So he threatened that if she ever told their secret, he'd have his mafia friends 86 her. Meanwhile, he continued pressuring her into working day and night to create bigger and bigger works. Eventually, Margaret created a masterwork called Tomorrow Forever. It depicted hundreds of sad looking big eyed children standing in a line that stretches across the horizon.

[Kat Dennings]

That is so fucking chilling knowing what she was going through while creating all of these paintings.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

And it depicted like all of these sad children. Right. The organizers of the 1964 World Fair hung it up in their Pavilion of Education. So later Walter wrote in his memoir that his dead grandmother told him in a vision that Michelangelo has put your name up for nomination as member of our inner circle, saying that your masterwork, Tomorrow Forever will live in the hearts and minds of men as his work would. Like the Sistine Chapel. So this is in his memoir. He was like my grandma came back to me in a dream and told me that Michelangelo and them inducted me into the bad bitch painted hall of Fame and that I'm just like the Sistine Chapel.

[Kat Dennings]

He must have been doing a ton of drugs.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Yeah, it's giving, it's giving like delusions.

[Kat Dennings]

Of like self grandeur. It's giving LSD with coke. It's giving major uppers. It's giving like delusional uppers.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

And despite the heaven sent message from Michelangelo, art critic John Kennedy described the piece as tasteless hack work, contains about 100 children and hints is about 100 times as bad as the average keen. Damn. Now, y'all don't gotta be panning this. This woman was making the art she's trying. So the world fair promptly took it down, which made Walter furious. Margaret was also hurt, as her children were personal expressions of her own feelings that she could never voice. Voice. Because she's actually the children in the painting. And I think if they knew the meaning, that it wasn't this, like, egotistical who made it, and it was actually this woman who feels the same thing as the children, they probably would have been more so sad, you know, empathetic of the artwork. And, you know, it's. Art is subjective, so the truth comes out. After 10 years of marriage, eight of them spent in misery, Margaret and Walter divorced. Still, Margaret promised that she'd continue to paint for Walter. Now, Margaret, why, girl, you down bad? It says, stop painting for this man. Put the brush down. No more strokes.

[Kat Dennings]

No more strokes.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

But after 20 to 30 more paintings, she finally had had enough. 20 to 30 is. I feel like a breaking point, sis, if I get it. She wanted to tell the truth. In October 1970, Margaret told a reporter from the UPI everything. Walter rampaged against Margaret and her claims. He denied all her claims that she was a true artist and swore that the big eyes were his. He also called Margaret a boozing sex starve psychopath who he once discovered having sex with several parking lot attendants.

[Kat Dennings]

So then did they do a draw off on national television or something?

[Jonathan Van Ness]

That's what needs to happen. I would have been like, okay, let's. Let's do a draw off. Let's see who can draw. Also, like, this is such a specific thing to say that your wife did that. I'm like, this is all projection. You had sex with several parking lot attendants.

[Kat Dennings]

You didn't. Yeah, 100%.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Also a boozing sex star psychopath. That sounds like you too. This sounds like you were just.

[Kat Dennings]

But he wasn't sex starved because he was like a sex glutton.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

But if you. If you're a glutton, then you're constantly starved, right?

[Kat Dennings]

Oh, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. So you just have to have all the time. So then what happened?

[Jonathan Van Ness]

So having most lost almost entirely all of his credibility, Walter moved into a shack in La Jolla, California, where he fell into deep alcohol abuse. Now, what's crazy to me is, like, you have millions of dollars, right? You spent all of that money, and now you have to live in a shack.

[Kat Dennings]

Shack probably.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Like, it's given, like, y'all just Play the life like a mash game. Like, you had the mansion, now you in the shack. What? So his story grew to include that Margaret was in a league with the Jehovah Witnesses who were out to get him. Okay? The few reporters that were still interested in Walter ran his stories. So Margaret sued him during the trial. The judge challenged them both to a paint off in the middle of court in front of everybody. Oh, my God, Jonathan, you were right. They had a paint off in court.

[Kat Dennings]

And so then what happened?

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Can you imagine being on this jury? And it's like, okay, now they about to do the paint off.

[Kat Dennings]

I can't believe I predicted the paint off, you guys. I didn't even know that. So that's what happened.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

So they were judged on how they painted a child with big eyes. Margaret painted hers in 53 minutes because, remember, she was down there cranking them out like on the assembly line. Walter said he couldn't because he had a sore shoulder. You got a painting injury. Okay. She won the case. Of course. He was like, oh, my shoulder. I pulled my paint. This my good painting. Shoulder, shoulder. Oh, can't do it. What, sir? Margaret was awarded $4 million, which she never saw because Walter had pissed their fortune away. By the 70s, the big eyed children fell out of popularity and occasionally even to mockery. Walter died in 2000, several years after giving up drinking. Margaret found God with the Jehovah Witnesses. She moved to Hawaii and the tone of her paintings became more cheerful with her big eyed children swimming in tropical seas with the fish. She can be seen in a camp of the 2014 Tim Burton film Big Eyes, based on her story. Margaret Keene passed on June 26, 2022 at the age of 94. Okay, I'm glad that Margaret got to live a second life and live to 94. Okay.

[Kat Dennings]

Yeah, successful. Did it get successful later?

[Jonathan Van Ness]

I don't know about that. But she did end up, you know, in a Tim Burton film. So she got some Tim Burton coins.

[Kat Dennings]

God, poor thing. What a life.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Oh, Margaret. Oh, she's so cute.

[Kat Dennings]

Plus, she didn't get to celebrate birthdays and stuff.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

She was down bad and said, sorry, Margaret. The times were tough for women back then as they are now. Ain't that crazy? But, guys, it's time for our last, our saddest segment of the show, because it's the last one where eventually I'm gonna have to let Jonathan go. It's time for Scammer of the week. So Scammer of the Week is where we honor one charlatan who's worthy of our praise. Or maybe not. We'll see. Today we're talking about. About. Let's see. While pre approved credit cards often pop up in mailboxes, one day a woman opened her mailbox to find a stack of 70 Chase bank credit cards waiting for her. What? The cards were issued to 70 completely different strangers, all on Tina Kumar's account. Somehow, Chase bank never raised a red flag when 70 names were added to one woman's account. That was particularly concerning when each envelope contained two cards with two different names and her account number. When she called the number on the back, suddenly all 70 cards were activated. When Tina finally was able to get a hold of customer service, they said someone logged into her account and added 70 names all at once. The bank immediately closed the account and issued her a new card, along with a promise that the manager would call her back. But the call never came. And no explanation was given as to why 70 users could have been added to Tina's account. But no one was noticing.

[Kat Dennings]

So what the hell was that about?

[Jonathan Van Ness]

So, Tina, I don't think that you're this, you guys scammed here like you're not the scammer of the week. There's some mysterious person out there who got away with adding 70 names to your credit card account.

[Kat Dennings]

That makes me think of this article I just read about this kid who stole like $14 million of Bitcoin. And he did it by like part. Part of what taught him about like hacking and stuff was like he would hack people's like, like phone accounts, but he would get employees from like Sprint and Verizon and AT&T because he needed someone from the inside to like flip their stuff. So he would like go offer like $5,000 or $4,000 because they weren't making that much money anyway. And he would just like find someone that was like down to clown with the scam and he would get into all these. But interesting. I feel like that must have been like. That sounds like an inside job, like someone from the bank. And that's why the manager isn't reaching out, because there's someone from inside the bank that did that.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Yeah, it's giving internal. It's giving like internal investigation. And they didn't want it to get out.

[Kat Dennings]

70 accounts in one fell swooping like, get out of here.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

No, it would definitely have pinged some flags. So it's giving like somebody a chase ran up a bag real quick and got out 70 cards. Why did you have them come? I mean, look, big, big banking industry has Scammed us over and over and over again. So I don't even know if I'm mad at the 70 card scammer on the other side especially. Cause I feel bad for money back in their credit.

[Kat Dennings]

It's their credit. It's those other 70 people. Oh, but I. Well, I don't know. I can't. It's too many scams. I can't even think about it.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Right. I mean, but guys, it's always just another way for us to remember, like check your cards. You're never too big to sign your own checks. Check, check your bank statements because people will charge you, they will try to get over on you. I always say if you go to the hospital and you build to your insurance, even if you built your insurance, get an itemized because you'll be surprised when stuff just starts falling off of that hospital bill because they put all kind of cotton swabs, job fees, band aid fees, you know, opening and closing, the curtain fee, you know, and you can get that stuff taken off. So you just have to really be vigilant out here because everybody's trying to do crime. Crime is very popping. It's very sexy in the zeitgeist right now.

[Kat Dennings]

It really is. It's very 2022. It really is. It is.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

It's a moment. Crime is having a moment. Okay. And it's. I don't think it's going away. I think that scams. She is the moment. They are the moment.

[Kat Dennings]

She is the moment. They really are. Scams are plenty queen.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Yes, the baddest bitch. But guys, that brings us to the end of a fantastic episode. Jonathan, you have the best energy. This is so wild.

[Kat Dennings]

Thank you so much for having me. I had so much fun.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

We always ask on this podcast, where would you like to be found?

[Kat Dennings]

Oh, where would I like to be found?

[Jonathan Van Ness]

So any socials? Anything you want to plug?

[Kat Dennings]

I was like on a beach in the Caribbean probably. No, it's like. Yeah, at jvn, you can follow our my podcast. At Curious jvn, we're doing the most over there. It's all about curiosity and just kind of like figuring out the world around us. Like, how do we get so up but like with some fun and yeah, at JVN Hair, we're doing a lot over there, although. So at jvn, at Curious jvn, at JVN Hair, we're doing all the stuff. And thanks for having me on.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Yes. And Jonathan, you are very curious. So if y'all want to hear more of his curiosity because he was so curious on this podcast, y'all. Get into his show, get into these books, get into this hair. You have fantastic hair.

[Kat Dennings]

Thank you.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

You just have the best.

[Kat Dennings]

I gave you a little bun today because it's like really hot in nola, but sometimes it is really good.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

And I love a hair stylist who has nice hair because I trust them more. Like, you know what I mean? Like, shout out to the bald hair stylist. I know that's we don't always get a choice in being bald, but it's just something about a hairstylist with gray hair that I'm like, I trust you. Like, put your hands in my hair. You get it?

[Kat Dennings]

Any day, anytime.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Oh, yes. And guys, as always, you can find [e-mail] if you want to snitch on your friends and family, you can find me at D I V H Lac I Diva Lacey on all platforms. If you'd like to follow the show and see all the photos and extra information and shenanigans. Scam got his pod on all platforms. Guys, I'm pretty sure I can announce this. Maybe I'll have to take it out, but season three of iCarly is happening, y'all. So I will be back on your television scream doing my normal crimes. Also, Lopez v. Lopez, you know, so we're out here, we're doing TV crimes, we're doing the audio crimes. I got y'all wherever you want to see me. Congregation, Stay scheming. Scam Goddess. This has been an Earwolf production in association with Team Coco. Scam Goddess stars and is hosted by me, Lacey Mosley, AKA Scam Goddess. It's produced by Judith Kargbo, engineered by Marina Paiz and researched by Kalen Brandt. Stay scheming.

[Lacey Mosley]

This has been a Team Coco production.

[Kat Dennings]

In association investigation with Earwolf.

[Lacey Mosley]

Prepare for the crime and investigation event of the new year with the premiere of A&E's gripping new series Homicide Squad New Orleans. Each week hit the streets of the Big Easy with a dedicated team of detectives as they investigate some of the most harrowing homicides in a never ending fight to keep their city safe. Join them in the relentless pursuit of justice in a new episode of Homicide Squad New Orleans. Thursdays at 9, part of a crime and investigation event only on A and E. Watch now on the A and D app. Hey, I'm Paul Scheer.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

I'm June Diane Rayfield.

[Kat Dennings]

And I'm Jason Manzoukis.

[Lacey Mosley]

And we're the hosts of how did this get Made? A comedy podcast where we deconstruct, make fun of, and celebrate the best worst movies ever made.

[Kat Dennings]

Have you ever seen a movie that's so bad that it's actually good? Eh? That's what we're talking about.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

From blockbuster franchises and made for TV.

[Kat Dennings]

Romances to bonkers 80s action flicks and.

[Lacey Mosley]

Obscure sci fi musicals, we cover it all.

[Kat Dennings]

You can find. How did this get made? Wherever you get your podcast podcasts. And don't forget to follow the show so you never miss an episode. Idiot.