Fraud Friday: Lady Gangsters: The Forty Elephants w/ Aida Rodriguez

Summary

Scam Goddess Podcast Episode Summary

Episode Title: Fraud Friday: Lady Gangsters: The Forty Elephants w/ Aida Rodriguez
Release Date: February 14, 2025
Hosts: Laci Mosley (Scam Goddess) and guest Aida Rodriguez
Platform: Earwolf & Laci Mosley

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Introduction

In this exciting episode of Scam Goddess, host Laci Mosley welcomes comedian, writer, and actor Aida Rodriguez to delve into the intriguing world of historical fraud and crime. The episode, titled "Fraud Friday: Lady Gangsters: The Forty Elephants," explores the notorious all-female gang that ruled the streets of London in the early 20th century. The conversation seamlessly blends humor with deep insights into the socio-economic factors that influenced such criminal activities.

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Race, Scams, and Societal Context

The episode kicks off with a poignant discussion on the intersection of race and scamming. Aida Rodriguez offers a nuanced perspective, highlighting how systemic oppression and lack of resources often push marginalized communities toward fraudulent activities as a means of survival.

Aida Rodriguez [03:08]: "I think that some scams are good for society... they keep their foot on black and brown people's necks."

Laci echoes these sentiments, sharing personal anecdotes about her experiences with racial dynamics in the realm of comedy and podcasts.

Laci Mosley [04:37]: "We can all do more. But do that at the very least."

This segment emphasizes the broader implications of fraud within oppressed communities, framing it not merely as criminality but as a response to systemic barriers.

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What's Hot and Fried: Modern-Day Scams

Transitioning from historical to contemporary, the hosts tackle a listener-submitted scam letter about the "Who's Who Executive Professional Honors Edition" — a dubious award that solicits personal information under false pretenses.

Laci Mosley [05:29]: "Daniel says... they keep your phone number, cell, email, specialty, and signature. Now, what are they going to do with all this information?"

Aida elaborates on the dangers of such scams, explaining how personal data facilitates identity theft and financial exploitation.

Aida Rodriguez [15:29]: "They can get in and they can get you."

The discussion underscores the importance of vigilance against unsolicited requests for personal information, highlighting the evolving tactics of modern scammers.

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Historic Hoodwinks: The Forty Elephants

The heart of the episode lies in the "Historic Hoodwinks" segment, where Laci and Aida delve deep into the history of The Forty Elephants, London's first documented all-female gang formed in the late 19th century. Their exploration covers the gang's origins, operations, and eventual decline.

Origins and Leadership

Formed in 1873, with roots tracing back to the 1700s, The Forty Elephants emerged from the male-dominated Elephant and Castle gang. Under the leadership of Mary Carr, and later Alice Diamond, the gang specialized in thefts targeting clothing and jewelry stores.

Laci Mosley [26:40]: "Mary, Carr... she was a forager of bonds."

Criminal Techniques

The gang employed sophisticated methods, such as the decoy technique and the ringer method, to execute their heists with precision. Their ability to dress elegantly and blend into high-class environments allowed them to outsmart store staff and evade capture consistently.

Laci Mosley [39:05]: "They'd be dripped down... Grabbing all they can."

Aida adds a modern twist to their tactics, comparing them to contemporary heist movies like Ocean’s Eleven.

Internal Dynamics and Code

The Forty Elephants operated with a stringent Hoisters Code, ensuring loyalty and mutual support among members. This code included provisions for caring for imprisoned members' families and providing alibis, fostering a tight-knit sisterhood within the gang.

Laci Mosley [44:27]: "Alice was out here for the streets. For real."

Downfall and Legacy

Internal conflicts, particularly over personal relationships, led to violent clashes such as the Lambeth Riot in 1925, resulting in the imprisonment of key members like Alice Diamond. Despite these setbacks, the gang persisted under new leadership until their decline in the late 20th century.

Aida Rodriguez [51:03]: "They kept this shit going for like a century."

The hosts reflect on the gang's impact, noting their significant role in London's criminal history and their portrayal as both empowered figures and societal outlaws.

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Scammer of the Week: Pernell Anthony Jones Jr.

Concluding the episode, Laci introduces "Scammer of the Week," spotlighting Pernell Anthony Jones Jr., who orchestrated a sophisticated lost luggage scam accumulating over $300,000 through fraudulent claims.

Laci Mosley [53:45]: "He was arrested again in March 2020 while trying to pick up a reimbursement check."

Aida critiques the severe penalties for non-violent crimes, questioning the justice system's focus on financial fraud over more violent offenses.

Aida Rodriguez [54:49]: "And, you know, you get in trouble more for messing with their money than you do with killing people, raping people, molesting children."

They debate the disproportionate consequences of financial crimes and advocate for rehabilitation over long-term incarceration.

Laci Mosley [55:09]: "Put this man free."

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Closing Remarks and Future Endeavors

In their final exchange, Aida shares her aspirations beyond the podcast, emphasizing her HBO Max special "Fighting Words" and her commitment to fostering opportunities for other women of color in comedy.

Aida Rodriguez [56:17]: "It's my mantra... Stay scheming."

Laci encourages listeners to engage with the podcast across platforms and promotes upcoming merchandise.

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Notable Quotes

• Aida Rodriguez [03:08]: "I think that some scams are good for society... they keep their foot on black and brown people's necks."
• Laci Mosley [05:29]: "What are they going to do with all this information?"
• Aida Rodriguez [15:29]: "They can get in and they can get you."
• Laci Mosley [44:27]: "Alice was out here for the streets. For real."
• Aida Rodriguez [54:49]: "And you get in trouble more for messing with their money than you do with killing people, raping people, molesting children."
• Laci Mosley [55:09]: "Put this man free."

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Conclusion

This episode of Scam Goddess masterfully intertwines historical narratives with contemporary issues surrounding fraud and systemic oppression. Through engaging dialogue and sharp humor, Laci Mosley and Aida Rodriguez shed light on the enduring impact of scams and the socio-economic factors that perpetuate them. Whether exploring the legendary Forty Elephants or dissecting modern scams, the hosts provide listeners with a comprehensive understanding of the intricate dance between crime and society.

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Stay Connected:
Find Scam Goddess on all podcast platforms at scamgodispod. Follow Laci Mosley on TikTok and join the "Con-gregation" to stay updated on upcoming episodes and merchandise.

Stay Scheming!

Transcript

[Lacey Mosley]

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[Ida Rodriguez]

Make your own stir fry.

[Lacey Mosley]

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[Ida Rodriguez]

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[Lacey Mosley]

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[Lacey Mosley]

What's poppin Congregation? It's ya Girl Lacey Mosley, AKA Scam Goddess. Welcome to an episode of Fraud Fridays where we release older episodes from the Scam Goddess Balt. That's right, Fraud Fridays is where back your favorite episodes from behind the Paywall. Enjoy this episode from behind the Paywall. And as always, stay scheming. Scams C. Robbery and Fraud. Scam CA Robbery and Fraud. Scam Goddess. What's poppin Congregation? It's ya girl Lacey Mosley, AKA Scam Goddess. And we're back with another installment of Scam Goddess, the podcast all about robbery and fraud and those who participate in them. Sometimes we love them, sometimes we hate them. We'll see. As always, guys, I'm very. Yes. Excited. I am excited for today's guest. Okay. We be out here hunting them down, getting them, you know, scamming them to get on the podcast. And when we get comedy queens like this, I just get real hype, y'all. Today we have a comedian, a writer, an actor. Actor. Her first hour long comedy special, Fighting Words is out now on HBO Max right now. Fighting Words. Get into it. She's also developing a half hour comedy based on her life and HBO Max as well. The girl's about to be all over HBO and the Max congregation. Please welcome Ida Rodriguez.

[Ida Rodriguez]

Hey, I love that intro. Can I re. Can I just take that recording with me so that I can. When I'm on the road? I can just play your intro for me. That's the most respect I've gotten in a long time.

[Lacey Mosley]

Oh, no, girl, you about to get it all. You about to get all the flowers. I know. I wish I had someone playing the intro for me when I walked into places because people don't know who I am. I'm like, I wish I wish they know who you are. I wish I could tell them like, y'all, this is me. I walk in, I got a boombox like, Radio Raheem.

[Ida Rodriguez]

I love Radio Raheem. Rest in peace. He was the best.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yes, yes. Okay, so I. I want to. I want to get you on the show for a minute. I'm very excited that you're here. I do have to ask you. And you can answer this however you want, given the statute of limitations. You know, don't. Don't fuck up your b. Like, do you like scams? Like, what's your relationship with scams? Do you hate them? Have you ever been scammed? Ever participated in scam lawfully? You could share like, anything. It could be anything.

[Ida Rodriguez]

So I'm gonna tell you right now, I think that some scams are good for society, and I'll tell you why. You know, here we go. They gonna say, here she go talking about race. But the reality of it is that white supremacy is real. It is the cousin of capitalism. And a lot of times, why our black and brown people resort to scams is because they lack resources. And sometimes it doesn't even the playing field. But at least it puts a win in the bucket for people who have been systemically oppressed. And so I'm not mad at people who get over on these, you know, corporations and organizations. They keep their foot on black and brown people's necks. So don't me, playa, because I'm not. I ain't going back and forth with you about, you know, the inadequacies of people of color.

[Lacey Mosley]

Absolutely. No, listen, they get it on this podcast. They. They know. After a while, they were like, oh, she gonna talk about race. That's my scam. We gonna do comedy on this podcast. I'm gonna talk to you a little bit about race and the plight of the black community. I recently got someone leaving a review that was like, hey, this is me doing my bit of reparations for the day by leaving a black queen a nice review on Apple Podcast. You're not supposed to write that part on Apple Podcast. You're not supposed to be like, this is me doing my job as a white.

[Ida Rodriguez]

That's funny, though.

[Lacey Mosley]

It is. It's very funny. But I was like, you know, you have to write that on the actual Apple reviews. Okay? I mean that. Listen, do, rate and subscribe, okay? And tell a friend that is some activism for the day. But you can do more. We can all do more, but do that at the very least.

[Ida Rodriguez]

Yes, yes, absolutely. Go and Go do it right now and do some creative writing. Write an amazing stellar review.

[Lacey Mosley]

Right. Well, let's get into our first segment here. What's Hot and Fried? This is where we warn our listeners about scams that are popping on the streets. And more often than not these days, you guys know we just get your listener letters. As always, snitch on your friends and family@scamus podmail.com. just make sure your scam is retired, because we don't want to. What? Yes. Fuck up your bag. Amen. You already brought up kind of corporate scamming and stuff. So we have a listener letter today, actually, that is adjacent to that. So I need a fake name. It could be anything. We don't care about gender.

[Ida Rodriguez]

Let's call up Daniel.

[Lacey Mosley]

Daniel. Damn. Daniel. All right. Daniel says, long time listener, first time submitter. I love when y'all do that. Like, long time listener, first time caller. Like, I don't know why it makes me laugh, but I got this. Facts. Facts. Where they still doing them at? Facts. You mean the one with the buttons and the number and then your phone got to be off, and then the Internet got to be on? Facts, Max. Facts. No printer. The worst. The worst lyric Omarion has ever said.

[Ida Rodriguez]

Omarion is trending right now.

[Lacey Mosley]

Oh, yes, he is. Because of the omicron variant. And it's so funny to me. I saw a tweet that was like, yeah, yeah, if you get that, Omarion, they say it's gonna be an ice box where your heart used to be. Like, I saw that.

[Ida Rodriguez]

I love black Twitter, boy.

[Lacey Mosley]

Right? Light Twitter goes up. They said, y'all better wash your hands before you touch. I was like, yes, Omarion deserves this. Get your flowers, even if it's through a pandemic, you know, look, I'm ready for all the variants to probate. We about to get the whole Greek Alphabet, and we just gotta be ready, you know, I'm sure the Sigmas will pull up, like, every sorority fraternity. You know, we'll have a pie, we'll have a 80pi variant. You know, it's just gonna happen. So I hope we can all just get vaccinated and boosted and stay out of each other's faces and just be here. How come nobody told us how pandemics ended? Because, you know, you hear about smallpox, you hear about rubella, you hear about scarlet fever, but nobody was ever just like, okay, Ms. Scarlett is out of here, Y'all back to the pub. Like, we don't. No one ever talks about how they.

[Ida Rodriguez]

Ended, because all the People who would document it died.

[Lacey Mosley]

Damn.

[Ida Rodriguez]

Sorry. That's the dark comedian in me.

[Lacey Mosley]

We love it.

[Ida Rodriguez]

But that's real, though. Like, that's true, though. That's true.

[Lacey Mosley]

Nobody ever was like. And then Tuesday, January 9, 1822, it was over. Like, nobody ever. Nobody ever tells us when it was over.

[Ida Rodriguez]

That's absolutely right, though.

[Lacey Mosley]

And I'm like, I'm trying to look at history and follow history. And I'm like, well, I don't know what's gonna happen to us. We might just be here, bro. This is so unfair. I'm already a millennial and then I gotta live through a pandemic. This ain't fair.

[Ida Rodriguez]

You see, I'm like. I'm like the emoji. I'm thinking about this. Like, that's absolutely right. I'm gonna do some research on it. I need hope. I need some hope, right?

[Lacey Mosley]

World bomb at. We need some hope. We probably somewhere with Richard Branson on a yacht. And you know what? Love that for him. Leave us behind, King. Peace out, King. We understand. So they get a fax at their workplace and it says that this fax came into my work's non public fax number. So this is the fax number on the low, low. This the burner facts. Okay. This is the. This the flip phone facts. Cool, cool, cool. So it says that I find it hilarious that scammers send out faxes like this just hoping that some dumb business or grandma will respond with the information. Don't be calling people's eye boy. Let's be d. But I know they just lonely, so just made my day and wanted to let y'all laugh at it too. It's like a who's who scam from high school, except for it's a covet. Awards. Love your show. Okay. On some nice things. Yes, yes. Okay. The COVID Awards. What? Okay, so it says who's who, and then it says, in executives and professionals, free nominations. So you can nominate someone at your job for free for the who's who of COVID Awards. Stay with me here. The letter says, greetings. Okay. We love a. We love a nice salutation. They said grand rising from the fax machine. Okay. It's my pleasure to inform you that you have been considered for the inclusion of the 2021 who's who executive Professional Honors Edition. This is a registry dedicated to the first responders and victims of COVID 19. Recognition of this kind is an honor shared by thousands of carefully selected executives professionals throughout North America each year. What you mean each year? We Had a pandemic for two years.

[Ida Rodriguez]

Not even two yet. It'll be two in March, right?

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah. Yeah. We getting close. Yeah, I think you're right. Two in March. So how many years have y'all been giving out this award?

[Ida Rodriguez]

Because.

[Lacey Mosley]

The math. Not math. Then Covid ain't been here that long. What else do you know? You know something else that Trump knew that he didn't tell us? So, upon final confirmation and verification, you will be listed among the most accomplished professionals in the who's who Executive and Professionals Honor Edition. What kind of executives? What kind of professionals? This is the most vague language I've ever seen.

[Ida Rodriguez]

This went to a fax machine that is centered in front of all of the cubicles or in the. And they're like, you are the executives. That's really fun. Wow.

[Lacey Mosley]

Like, what is that even? What is an exec like, executive. We talk a CEO, cfo. What kind of executive? Also, what is the honor? Are we going to be in a newspaper? We're going to be in Voyage magazine, which. I told you I was a scam. Stop giving Voyage all your friends personal emails and information to have a fake article honoring you. Stop it.

[Ida Rodriguez]

I'm so glad you said it. I'm so. They got me before, but it was, like, 20. Like, I would say 2017, 2016.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah, see, that was when we didn't know it was a scam. And I was like, sure, I'll give up my personal contact list of emails for an article that I'm gonna write myself with many grammatical errors, and I'm gonna post it on my Instagram. Like, look, y'all, they. They talk about your girl.

[Ida Rodriguez]

That's hysterical. Hysterical because it's true.

[Lacey Mosley]

They giving your girl accolades. Okay, see, I am an actress. Says this website. They emailed me because they. My friend gave me up.

[Ida Rodriguez]

That is so fun. Oh, my God.

[Lacey Mosley]

You know, it's still happening.

[Ida Rodriguez]

I know. I was gonna say, I just. I know someone who just posted, and.

[Lacey Mosley]

I'm like, look, y'all, it's getting written up in articles and stuff, especially if you're an entertainment. Even if you're not. Like, you know, there's so many articles. Like, one of my aunts is about to be in Dallas Black Women CEOs magazine, and it's legit, and they're taking photos of her, and they're doing all this stuff. Like, I know that feels good to be recognized and feel like you having a little moment of fame. I get it. But if you got to orchestrate the whole moment of fame yourself, you might as well just wrote a blog if they, if they hit you up and say, hey girl, we honoring you. Yeah. The ceremony gonna be at your house. We will need you to provide snacks and accoutrements.

[Ida Rodriguez]

Go ahead and tell it. Go ahead and tell it.

[Lacey Mosley]

Make sure your camera battery is charged up so you can take videos of us presenting the award that you will need to purchase from Party City. Like, what is this? Wait a minute.

[Ida Rodriguez]

Yeah, that's. It's too funny, but it's too true. Wow.

[Lacey Mosley]

And so I just. This is so fascinating because I'm trying to understand what they're after. It says for accuracy and publication deadlines, please return your application form to us immediately because space is limited. What's immediately? There's no deadline. You just said fast. Fast is relative.

[Ida Rodriguez]

That's the voyage of, of that is the voyage of the business world. Like they really, they really tried it.

[Lacey Mosley]

And they said it as a fax because that was supposed to make it more legit, I guess. It says there is on all caps and it's bold. There is no cost to be included. On behalf of our chairman of the board, we wish you continued success. Who is the chairman of the board? Giuseppe Castellano.

[Ida Rodriguez]

Let's.

[Lacey Mosley]

So what they want is your name, your company name, title, years of service. That was your company website, complete address, phone number, cell, email, specialty and signature. Now what are they going to do with all this information? Is that enough to scam somebody?

[Ida Rodriguez]

They're going to sell it, right? I'm looking up Giuseppe Castellano on LinkedIn.

[Lacey Mosley]

Not on LinkedIn.

[Ida Rodriguez]

Well, that's where. Right. That's an executive, right?

[Lacey Mosley]

That's where he would be, right?

[Ida Rodriguez]

Nowhere to be found.

[Lacey Mosley]

Oh, Lord, Giuseppe.

[Ida Rodriguez]

That ain't even. There ain't even a Giuseppe Castellano, period. Because you know, there is a Giuseppe. There's. It doesn't even exist.

[Lacey Mosley]

Wow. Giuseppe, wow. You couldn't even come up with a name if somebody actually already had. You could have been Mike Hart. You know how many Mike Hart's there are on LinkedIn? Could have been anybody.

[Ida Rodriguez]

Castellano was an Italian general who negotiated the armistice between Italy and Allied armed forces.

[Lacey Mosley]

Oh, what year was that? That would explain why he faxing like he's faxing from the dead.

[Ida Rodriguez]

1943.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah, he faxing from the great beyond. Okay, Giuseppe. Wow. I mean, look guys, when anybody tries to tell you that they're giving you something and they don't want anything in return but your personal information, that sounds like a return to me. Like also like they didn't even say how the award is presented, where it's located. They didn't even list off any winners from previous years. They didn't even say what the criteria was or when it was due.

[Ida Rodriguez]

That's a scam for sure.

[Lacey Mosley]

They said, whenever you could get it to us, we'll take your information. Actually, whenever, like.

[Ida Rodriguez]

And, you know, I learned from a friend of mine who's a federal agent that all people who do identity theft need sometimes is an email address or a phone number connected to your bank account. And they're in.

[Lacey Mosley]

Wow.

[Ida Rodriguez]

So email addresses and phone numbers. And he told me, never have your phone number that's connected to your bank account on your Facebook or your IG account, because they can get in and they can get you.

[Lacey Mosley]

Okay. So that makes so much sense to me because Instagram and Facebook want to have all of your personal information anyway. And they're constantly asking for your phone number. They do not need your phone number. If you want to instant message somebody on Facebook or DM them on Facebook, your cell phone number does not have to be involved in that. And they will keep prompting it, like, oh, two factor security, safety. When in reality, if somebody gets access to your Instagram, which people can do, but just by you clicking a link in a dm, they could potentially have everything they need to rob you 100%.

[Ida Rodriguez]

And they do.

[Lacey Mosley]

They do.

[Ida Rodriguez]

He got got.

[Lacey Mosley]

They.

[Ida Rodriguez]

This guy said, I'm in and I have access to your bank account. He said, I have access to all of your stuff, your icloud. So if you don't give me X amount of dollars, I will out your pictures. And he ended up negotiating with the guy and gave him some money. But I was like, what kind of pictures you got on your phone? You know?

[Lacey Mosley]

Right? That's how, you know you take away too many booty hole flicks. If you immediately were like, let's broker this situation. Okay, so these are my terms. This is what I'm willing to give. Like, you went immediately into the blackmail. Also, I don't believe in blackmail because I'm telling y'all, like, if you black if unless you are getting blackmailed and there's a singular CD ROM that can't be copied that you're buying back from somebody, then the information is still there. That person could have screenshot all your photos. They could still have access to your cloud. The cloud is amorphous. Nobody knows how it works.

[Ida Rodriguez]

That's absolutely correct. And for me, it's like, if I'm a go down, I'm a burn My own house down. That's why I tell all my business in my comedy, because I'm like, I'm about to let y'all do that to me. I do it myself.

[Lacey Mosley]

I just cancel herself.

[Ida Rodriguez]

I burn myself down. Like, I'm not. I'm not giving anybody the satisfaction of doing that to me. I'll let you know everything you need to know. Yeah, I did it.

[Lacey Mosley]

All right? And listen, that's. That's also another way to absolve yourself. But in this case, I think, guys, if you come to a situation where someone is trying to blackmail you, maybe just wait it out, wait a little bit, you know what I mean? Because, like, what's the worst they're doing? They're gonna leak your photos. This is a lot of work for them not to get any money.

[Ida Rodriguez]

Yes, I agree with you.

[Lacey Mosley]

So if you just wait, they might just move on to the next target, and you might be good. You might just be able to get out of it. So that's my advice on that situation. Now, don't quote me. Don't try to sue me. Don't have me having a call for my abogado fund, because it's several best bus benches around here that I could call. Okay, So I. I will see you in court now. But guys, as always, don't volunteer your information, guy. Don't. Just don't give it up. Don't give it up. So much of our information is already out there in the world. Nobody needs anymore, especially not from them damn facts. Effects.

[Ida Rodriguez]

Absolutely. And if you have a phone number, that's why that Google Voice number is so important, because you have your regular number that's connected to your bank accounts and your personal information. And then you give all the you don't trust and know that Google Voice number that's not connected to anything that has to do with your financial information.

[Lacey Mosley]

I need to do that just career wise. Let's get to the point where I just. I get really frustrated when people are texting me and calling me that I'm like, how the hell do you have my number? Like, I want to keep my number. And it just gets really frustrating. Like, people like, oh, congratulations, I don't know who you are. We have not spoken in 15 years. Why the hell are you texting me? Like, stop. So it's time for me to get that Google Voice. Also, just being on sets like, you know, that means that any random person who's working on that set could potentially just get your phone number from a call sheet. And I'm like, I'm over this.

[Ida Rodriguez]

Yeah. And you know, you have. I'm sure you have survivor's remorse, which I have too, because I don't change my number because I don't want people to say, oh, she changed.

[Lacey Mosley]

Right?

[Ida Rodriguez]

But then I got somebody calling me saying, hey, you want to do comedy at the Chicken Shack at such and such. You know, I got, I got $47 in a two piece for you.

[Lacey Mosley]

And I'm like.

[Ida Rodriguez]

And then you say, no. Oh, you think you better than. And I'm like, I never did comedy for two. A two piece. And why I gotta do it now? It's just, it's. You have to change your number is my point. Like, for the community.

[Lacey Mosley]

For the community. How you gonna turn your back on the community at the Chickasha?

[Ida Rodriguez]

We need you. And you know what? I fight for the community every day, but I done been robbed in the community a few times.

[Lacey Mosley]

Listen, the community will also rob you. Okay? Listen, we trying to raise money to get the community center back together, but you know, they also trying to catch a lick. They might take the tires off your cars while you're out there. Like, we hopeful, hopeful for today. That's the community song facts. You know what's so funny? I always think about this when, you know, people of color, black actors, Latino actors, like, you name it, get awards or big accolades. They're always like, so what does this mean to you in the community? Like, they don't ever ask white people, like, they're never like Scarlett Johansson, what does this mean to you in the community? You know, but for us, it's gotta be like, it's an everyday. So what you tell at the car wash? I know they watch it right now looking all very proud, you know, hey, I love.

[Ida Rodriguez]

That is a bit. That is so funny though. I, I never thought about that, but I have, like, I think subconsciously, but you're absolutely right. There's never an implication for all white people. You know, like, there's never. It's never like, how is Poland dealing right now?

[Lacey Mosley]

What do you want to say to the folks back home in New Haven, Connecticut? What do you want to say to them? What do you want to say to them in Martha's Vineyard? Let them know you put them on the map. Put Martha on the map.

[Ida Rodriguez]

That is so funny.

[Lacey Mosley]

You ever hear white people out here talking about area codes like this?

[Ida Rodriguez]

And even the poor, like, poor white people like Hillary Swank that became famous. Not even them. They're not even like, oh, what does this mean for the homeless community? Like, or the unhoused community.

[Lacey Mosley]

Nothing, nothing, nothing. They're just like, you're white. You should get things.

[Ida Rodriguez]

Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

Now you a brown. A person who we all notoriously know should not get things. How. How does this motivate you to inspire other people who should not get things to also get things?

[Ida Rodriguez]

Yo, that's just like, facts on facts on facts.

[Lacey Mosley]

It just makes me laugh so hard because I'm like, what does this question even be? It's so loaded. Like, why do I have to represent the entire black race? But. But Scarlett gets to be Asian. Like, help me understand.

[Ida Rodriguez]

But that's why we gotta flip the script. So when they ask us, they're like, hey, what does this mean for your community? And I'm like, you mean, like people who scored really high on the sat? I want those people to know, right?

[Lacey Mosley]

That these beautiful people. I want beautiful people to know.

[Ida Rodriguez]

Yes, I would do that. I'd be like, you know, there was an all in vain. Now, I did use the word ostentatious in this last project.

[Lacey Mosley]

Right? I'm very well read now. I think if somebody asks me about the community now, I'm gonna start just immediately talking about the white community. I'm like, look, I just want, you know, when Hillary Duff wakes up, for her to be proud of me and everything that we did, I want Taylor Swift to know that I'm gonna hold it down.

[Ida Rodriguez]

You know what I mean? And I'm out here snatching scarves left.

[Lacey Mosley]

And right, left and right. We go get your. We go get your scarf back, Taylor. Okay, I watched that, and that was actually. What is it called? Forever in Time of Wrinkling Wine at the moment. So I know people are screaming at their devices right now. It was all good. Till it wasn't. I'm close.

[Ida Rodriguez]

No, I'm looking it up.

[Lacey Mosley]

It was all a dream. I used to read Word up magazine.

[Ida Rodriguez]

All too well.

[Lacey Mosley]

All too well. Okay, there we go. See, I was close. I was close, guys.

[Ida Rodriguez]

You know, I pulled up Taylor Swift, and 10 minute song came up. That's the number one search for Taylor Swift.

[Lacey Mosley]

And it was good. I watched them whole 10 minutes, and it was that, listen, if y'all don't know about Tay Tay, learn about Tay Tay. And I know that people say, like, oh, well, she only dated him for three months. But as somebody who has encountered a narcissistic personality who I only talked to for, like, nine days, I was like, damn, that really did a number on me.

[Ida Rodriguez]

It does. So three months.

[Lacey Mosley]

That's a lot. And it was like, Textbook, like narcissists are a scam and they don't have a very good playbook. So if you watch that 10 minute Taylor Swift video, you'll probably know everything you need to know about a gaslitic narcissistic older man. Cause he was saying everything that I've ever heard from an old nigga.

[Ida Rodriguez]

Like, but, but tell the truth. If you saw Nightcrawler, you would not be like, I'mma date him. Yeah, you saw Method all over that.

[Lacey Mosley]

I was like, it's coming from his soul, y'all.

[Ida Rodriguez]

What were you. What are we doing? I'm like, I feel like the Ms. J GIF. Like, what are we doing?

[Lacey Mosley]

What are we doing?

[Ida Rodriguez]

What are we doing? Are you crazy? Make it make sense.

[Lacey Mosley]

There's some people who play evil a little well, and you got to just heed that and, and, and know that. I don't know, Jake. It's none of my business, but I do like that piece of art. Complete tangent, guys. We're gonna take a quick break for some non scam advertisements and we'll be back with my favorite part of the show, Historic Hoodwinks. It's February, y'all. The sexiest months of all the months. And feeling sexy is supposed to be fun. Whether you have a significant other or not, you can still enjoy. Adore me. Because flirty, playful lingerie bras and more that are all about what gets you excited. Adormi offers extended sizing across a wide variety of thoughtfully designed styles. And look, you don't have to just get in there and get the sexy lingerie or the corsets. They also have supportive swimwear, pajamas and activewear. They have it all. But I have like this cute set that has like this red bow that goes around it and like under boob, which is like really hot right now. And I was like, okay. And with sets starting as low as $19.99, you can feel sexy even if you're on a budget. New customers can get a bra and panties set for as low as $19.95. So take this as a sign to order yourself a new bra or maybe even some new crotchless panties. Head to adoreme.com now to shop for more than just lingerie in over 67 sizes.

[Target Ad Voice]

Celebrate Black History Month with the Rap and Hip hop Pre Game station presented by Target. And celebrate black creators with the Target Black History Month collection. Because the more we come together, the more we create together. Launch Rap and Hip Hop Pre Game now brought to you by Target Cons.

[Lacey Mosley]

And we are Back. And it's time for my favorite segment of the show, Historic Hoodwinks. This is where I will regale our amazing guest today with a famous group of cons. Criminals. You know, maybe we like them, maybe we hate them. We'll see. So at the turn of the 20th century and the height of the growing women's liberation movement, an all women gang of thieves and con women took London by storm for the greater part of the 1900s. And they called themselves the 40 elephants. Were these like the original Delta Sigma Thetas? I'm gonna get in trouble for that.

[Ida Rodriguez]

Oh, that's cute, though. No, that's cute.

[Lacey Mosley]

Also. I love that during women's liberation, they were like, yes, more female criminals. That's what we talk about. Why not diversity and crime? I love this. So London's first documented all female game formed in 1873 through records. Though the records suggest earlier sex had been in operation since the 1700s out of the women who had worked as accomplices for the Elephant and Castle gangsters, a male dominated mob. So basically, they branched off of the other gangsters and they were like, we going to be the 40 elephants and we just going to get rid of the men. Which I think is great. When you're doing crime, you really don't need to have any men involved.

[Ida Rodriguez]

No. You know, it's funny. And that's where the Republican party started. I. I am fascinated by this actually.

[Lacey Mosley]

Wait, they drip down, though. Can we talk about the drip?

[Ida Rodriguez]

The drip for show? Look at this, look at this.

[Lacey Mosley]

These top hats. Like, she. Does this have a monocle? What is. Wait, what is this attached to the buttons on the. I don't even know if there's a vest. This is.

[Ida Rodriguez]

This one right here. Looks like Jared Leto.

[Lacey Mosley]

Oh, my goodness. Stop. That is the most accurate. Ready? Wow. These are some baddies. But also, like, how are y'all doing crime dressed like this? You can't run fast in these suits. No, this must be some like white collar moonshine kind of crime. Because you can't get nowhere quick in all that drip. And it's loud too. They gonna hear you coming. They had all types of jewels and hanging off of them. So in many ways, the 40 elephants began similarly to the suffragette movement of the time. But instead of fighting for the right to vote and also keeping down black and brown people. Yeah, Susan Anthony, we don't with you. But instead of fighting for the right to vote, they fought for financial independence, particularly from the men of Elephant and Castle. Only the women were allowed to be members. And they were almost all excuse exclusively from a working class background. Their name was due to two factors that they all lived around. Elephant and Castle pub in South Park. And when they left the shops with stolen goods under their clothes, their sheer volume made them look like elephants. So they was like, we live near this area and then also we steal so much under our clothes that we look like elephants. How are they fitting anything under them suits? You saw how tight them suits were?

[Ida Rodriguez]

Yeah, they were fitted. They were fitted and they were layered though. But still that.

[Lacey Mosley]

That seems it was even like express men's. Like that's how tight the suit was.

[Ida Rodriguez]

Yeah, I think so. And you know, like, if you think about this, during suffrage movement and women's liberation, where white women were exploiting black women and who knows who was actually carrying the stuff.

[Lacey Mosley]

True, true. Big facts, Big facts. And I think they were doing most of their own looting here. This is also in the uk where I guess they weren't as bad. But we know.

[Ida Rodriguez]

I believe they were doing the looting, but I feel like in terms of transporting stuff and I'm sure they had some support from women of color. They just. They just didn't get the credit for it.

[Lacey Mosley]

Of course, always there's always a black woman somewhere in the back. There's always a person of color somewhere in the back doing things. So the 40 elephants were known for stealing clothes and jewelry to fence them for far less than what they were worth in order to distribute the earnings amongst their community and provide for their families. They earned far more than they could ever otherwise hope to as women in the late 19th century. So they said, look, if y'all not gonna pay us fairly, if y'all not gonna pay us 100 on the dollar that you paying a man, and we gonna have to just take it. I mean, kind of seems like it was still a part of the liberation movement to me. Equal pay robbery. So they'd also con their way into wealthy houses as housemaids, only to loot their employers houses. Wow. So they. They should. They was like, why Isabella only shining the gold every day? She hasn't washed the basins in months. Every time I see her, she's shining a piece of gold.

[Ida Rodriguez]

I love it. Do it, Isabella.

[Lacey Mosley]

Isabella ain't clean. Nary a baseboard. Ain't washing. Never. Ain't washed the oven. Never. Is that even though double negatives? Never wash the oven? Never cleaned the baseboard, never washed a pot literally was just in there. She was like, is this a fabric egg? It's duh. It's dusty. Let Me give it a wash. All she does is wash up. Like, I love this for them. Love this for them. So Mary Carr, the First queen, the 40 elephants. First queen was Mary Carr, a woman born into, like, international thievery. And she was a forager of bonds. Okay. By the time she was 14, she had theft conventions and by 1873, was notorious for pulling successful heists. Mary's expertise was in hoisting. I love that because it just means stealing. But it sounds like. Like, way cuter. Like when people say, I relieve them of their belongings, like, that's stylish.

[Ida Rodriguez]

I love it. I. Let me tell you. You know what word I love? Gaffel. Oh, I love gaffel means, like. I think it means scam. Like, hustled. She gaffled him. Like, I love that word.

[Lacey Mosley]

I haven't heard that word.

[Ida Rodriguez]

I like that.

[Lacey Mosley]

Gaffel. Learn something new every day. See, this is what happens when you represent your community of SAT Prep. Love it. So Mary's experience was in hoisting, stealing goods and then reselling them through fences. And by 1903, she had gained international notoriety and continued running the gang until her suspected death in 1916. I love if they don't even know if she died. They were just like, we think she died. I don't know. We ain't hear from her no more. So Alice diamond succeeded Mary as the Queen of the 40 elephants in 1916 at the age of 20. Wow, that's real young to be the queen. Like, Mary Alice was born into, like, a workhouse and criminal parents. I love that. Keep it in the family. Oh, okay. So she looked like she was ready for crime. She's giving crime queen. She's got this coat on. Is that wool? Is that black wool? Black sheep.

[Ida Rodriguez]

And look at the neck, the necklace, the hat.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah, she was dripped down. I love this, cuz, like, all of these criminals look fantastic. Look like they smell good. Which for that time period, we knew everybody's thing. So I'm here for it. That's all I can think about in old movies. Like, when I see, like, a movie and it's like in the 1700s or the 1800s or even game of Thrones and they start kissing. I'm like, oh, I know it's stank in there.

[Ida Rodriguez]

That is absolutely.

[Lacey Mosley]

They start having sex. I'm like, I know everybody just had a yeast infection every day. This is just disgusting. All I can think about. I can't think about them kissing without thinking about, like, nasty yuck mouth.

[Ida Rodriguez]

Mouth.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah.

[Ida Rodriguez]

They didn't have the, you know, they didn't have the. The essentials, right?

[Lacey Mosley]

Or the oils or the soap. I just. I think about it all the time. I don't know why I can't. I can't even get out of it.

[Ida Rodriguez]

This is like lavender on top of musk funk. Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

Then they used to wear. Put poppies in their pockets. They were like, oh, we stank. We just go put some flowers in our pocket.

[Ida Rodriguez]

That's hysterical, though.

[Lacey Mosley]

That's where that pocket full of posies comes from. Because they had the plague and they was stanking because they was dying to the place. So they put some pop posies in their pockets to try to smell good.

[Ida Rodriguez]

I'm like, writing jokes down as I go because I think this is the funniest I ever heard in my life.

[Lacey Mosley]

I literally. Ooh, I'm so glad I was born. Post shower, post. Like, we can wash our asses and our legs and some people choose not to, but I. Everyone love it.

[Ida Rodriguez]

You said our legs.

[Lacey Mosley]

Some of us. Some of us. The leg community. Those of us who wash our legs in the community. That's the community I do all my work for. That's why I'm gonna shout out when I win an Oscar. This one's for people who watch they leg and my mama and God.

[Ida Rodriguez]

Yeah, right?

[Lacey Mosley]

So damn. For a woman like Alice, born into the lowest classes, her future held few choices all. In all likelihood, she would become a servant or a laundress or marry into poverty or have countless children and own nothing. Her only other options were suicide and an increasingly frequent resort for women with no support or prostitution and another, you know, very popular career choice or crime. So those were her options. Now, what was suicide first?

[Ida Rodriguez]

That was the time, right?

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah, that's the time. But, like, just like economics, like, you were born into this world, you didn't ask to be born, but you're born at a lower station to the point where your options are so few. And it's not even like we can act like that's something that doesn't. Doesn't exist to this very day. You know, when Singapore was over and I talked about this on a previous episode, Singapore said they're gonna treat their, you know, people in their country like Americans and make them pay for health care. I was like, oh. Or when Germany was running those ads talking about for 10 cents a day, you could help an American child eat. And it's like, those are. That seems hilarious because of how we purport ourselves, but America's the ghetto, and all those things are true.

[Ida Rodriguez]

Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

And it's still bad.

[Ida Rodriguez]

It is. And, you know, the fact that. The fact that we have this exceptionalism complex is so, like, interesting to me because it's like, based on what do you think we're the best?

[Lacey Mosley]

Based on what?

[Ida Rodriguez]

Based on what? I would love to hear the explanation of the military. Nah, nah.

[Lacey Mosley]

Because we be losing them wars we be going into, y'all know we'd be losing them, right?

[Ida Rodriguez]

Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

Like, you know, we lost Vietnam. Like, you know, we lost Iraq. I don't think we won it either.

[Ida Rodriguez]

And the thing is that you. If you. Not to diss the military, but I do military tours when I do comedy. And I remember, like, that's where I learned how to do the Soulja Boy was when I was on tour in Korea. Because everybody that was there at this base was 17, 18, 19 years old. People who come from the black and brown communities who couldn't afford to go to college, who were hustled into believing that if they joined the military, they would get college money later. And I know that that happens for some people, but for many it doesn't. And so it was just like, if you look at the military, you're like, oh, these are children. They are risking their lives. Some of them are going to be deployed into active combat and coming back to the struggle.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah. Which is so, so heartbreaking because at that time in your life, your brain is not fully developed. None of us should have been signing for student loans at that age. Like, like, hey, little 18 year old, you ready to get saddled with debt for the rest of your life? You don't even know what that means. Hey, little 18 year old, you ready to go across this, you know, overseas and see some stuff that's gonna fuck you up forever and possibly take your life? We don't know what that means at that age. And they know that. It's so predatory. That's what gets on my nerves about America. I'm like. Because it's not even about the people. Like, the people who join the military. Like, they. A lot of them don't have choices. A lot of them do it because they are patriotic or they do want to help people they do want to help. The country is no shade to the people who join the military. It's just the construct of this whole fucking country of how we spend our money and how we take pride when it's like, how are you going to be trying to flex on the whole world when we have children who are starving? How are we supposed to be the best? And other Countries raising money for us. How is it to be the best? Other countries are threatening to treat their citizens like we get treated. That's not good.

[Ida Rodriguez]

And they're making fun of us because of our leadership. They're like, I remember I was in Israel, and my driver was laughing at me because he was like, the guy from the Apprentice is your president. And he just busted out laughing. And I was like, well, damn.

[Lacey Mosley]

Like, yeah, I didn't put him there.

[Ida Rodriguez]

You know what I mean? But it's just. It's really interesting how we do really have this complex.

[Lacey Mosley]

It's embarrassing over here. I just be like, all right, well, I'm ashamed. Well, whatever. But, you know, so these are the circumstances for Alice. So her options were few. So obviously, Alice chose crime because lucky for her, she was already a notoriously talented thief by the time she was 17. Standing at 5ft 9 inches tall with a full figure, Alice was also a physical match for most men in London. London at the time, earning her the name for wearing the diamond rings. Knuckle dusters, AKA brass knuckles. So she was out here fighting dudes with brass knuckles on and robbing them. Wow.

[Ida Rodriguez]

Alice, let's go.

[Lacey Mosley]

Feminine icon, okay. Under Alice's formidable leadership, the gang grew larger and more successful than ever before. She began recognizing the gang into separate cells, which allowed for simultaneous robberies to occur in various parts of the city. Dividing the people police's attention and catching shopkeepers by surprise. Alice also began institute. Oh yeah, Come on. Divide and conquer. Instituting a new style for the elephants. Known that dressing in expensive, trendy attire, decked out with secret flaps and pockets increased their chances for success. Under Alice, the gang used several techniques to conduct their crime, sometimes even using Alice's notoriety to their benefit. So these are the. The techniques that they will use. They'd be dripped down. Drip too hard. One technique was the decoy, when a group would enter the department store together with Alice. While the staff was watching Alice every move, her accomplice was behind them, stuffing armfuls of clothes under their dresses or passing items down the line quickly so the women could claim they never touched anything. So they knew Alice was a thief. I love that Alice had a reputation for being a thief, but they didn't put her in jail. They were just like, here, go Alice again. You know, she be robbing us. Like, that was fine.

[Ida Rodriguez]

I love it. Must be nice, right?

[Lacey Mosley]

Right. You just had to watch her real good, guys. If you see Alice come in the store, just make sure you're watching her because you know she's a huge crime thief. Like, nobody gonna do nothing about it. They just gonna be like, we'll be vigilant.

[Ida Rodriguez]

What a What beautiful. What a. What an amazing opportunity to be. To just be yourself in a time where. You know what I mean? Like, that's the epitome of being able to be yourself.

[Lacey Mosley]

What a privilege that gives me, like, Dora the Explorer. Like, Swiper, stop swiping. They was just like, all we can do is just tell them to stop. Stop stealing. You couldn't lock Swiper up. They're like, swipe a nose. Swipe. And he like, all right, I guess not tomorrow.

[Ida Rodriguez]

Like, that's hilarious.

[Lacey Mosley]

Like, they didn't have. They didn't have any consequences for Alice. Love this for her. So for the jewelry thefts, they employed the ringer method, where one gang would ask to examine an expensive brooch or necklace. Because, remember, these are white ladies dressed to the tens and the nines. So, you know, people aren't assuming that they're gonna rob them. They would study it, and then they would decline buying it. With a finely honed memory. She would then have a forager make the exact imitation from paste and glass and then come back with an accomplice who would ask to see the item again and switch it for the fake under the assistant's nose. So they was doing Ocean's 11 in 18.

[Ida Rodriguez]

Yeah, they were. That sounds like fun, though. It sounds like, what a time to be alive, you know?

[Lacey Mosley]

Right? Come on, ocean's 1800s. Come on, Caspian. See, Cons.

[Ida Rodriguez]

I love this.

[Lacey Mosley]

So if the women were ever caught, they had built up an arsenal of men that they had seduced and blackmailed to get out of the hands of the law. Wow. They was working on all firing on all cylinders, they said. And then we got some hoes over here that we seduced, and they don't break us out. So Alice was such a talented con that once, when she was being questioned outside about a jewelry theft, she managed to get rid of the evidence by slipping the stolen bracelet into the detective detective's pocket. Wow. Then she was like, so you stole it? You stole it.

[Ida Rodriguez]

That's great. That's pretty amazing.

[Lacey Mosley]

So when she couldn't charm her way out of a tough situation, alice and the 40 elephants had no qualms about using violence against the police, and their brutality was continuously underestimated.

[Ida Rodriguez]

Doesn't that make you say wow, though? Like, that made me flinch just as a woman of color. Like a. You know, just thinking about that, I'm like, damn. Like, you know what?

[Lacey Mosley]

A. I've never heard those words in that order. Violence against the police. I've never. That. That. I've never pieced those words together in my mind. Police brutality. Yes. Police violence. Sure. Violence against the police. Like, they were like, all right, well, if we came, we can't trick them. We gotta beat them. Y'all get out here. Put your brass knuckles on, ladies. It's time to beat up the boobies. Like what?

[Ida Rodriguez]

I love it. I love it. I just. I don't. I mean, this makes me proud.

[Lacey Mosley]

Like a woman. Like women doing this. This is wild. When answering questions during one of her numerous court appearances for beating a policeman. Why does she keep getting to go back to court? What happened to jail? You know what? I love it. Alice said police forces are set up by governments to stop others for getting a share of what they've got. Well, she ain't lying.

[Ida Rodriguez]

She's not.

[Lacey Mosley]

This is my Susan B. Anthony, Alice. I feel like I fuck with her more than Susan B. I could ever. So she's not wrong. They're here to protect property. After a successful day of stealing, they'd ride up to their favorite glamorous hotel to party with friends and charm the staff of before doing it all over again the next day. Living the life they had once dreamt about. Alice's downfall. We get into the end of this. As a part of her firm leadership of the gang, Alice created the Hoisters Code. Okay, we love a G code. Which outlined the democratic rules and expectations of the gang, including the expectation for the gang to care for the family members of imprisoned thieves and for the women to always provide alibis for each other. Wow. Come on. Come on. About a G Code. Hoisters Code. That's what I'm talking about.

[Ida Rodriguez]

She said, I'm writing that down. Oysters code.

[Lacey Mosley]

And this is right. That's very classy way of saying G code. And I love this. Alice was out here for the streets. For real. For real. This is why women should lead all gangs and the government. Like she's talking about. She got a 401k plan. They got severance for when you in prison. You know they're giving out alibis like hotcakes. I love this robbery.

[Target Ad Voice]

Celebrate Black History Month with the rap and hip hop Pre Game station presented by Target. And celebrate black creators with the Target Black History Month collection. Because the more we come together, the more we create together. Launch rap and hip hop Pre Game now. Brought to you by Target, now streaming on Hulu.

[Lacey Mosley]

A wicked true crime. It was a kidnapping, torture Case, a.

[Ida Rodriguez]

Crime of greed and cruelty. The men tortured the victim by beating.

[Lacey Mosley]

Tasing, and burning him. But it didn't end there. And this is where it gets really horrible. The guy was cutting off my roommate's penis. It was like a bad dream. This crime was horrific. He's a psychopath. Wicked game. Devil in the Desert.

[Ida Rodriguez]

This was a story about greed, sadism, evil.

[Lacey Mosley]

Now streaming only on Hulu and fraud. Alice also codified an expectation of absolute loyalty that was punishable by ridicule or beating when disobeyed. Okay, now riddle me this Alice ridicule. So you just get cussed out if you're not loyal? What kind of ridicule are we talking about?

[Ida Rodriguez]

No, they said, didn't they? No physical. No physical beatdowns, she said.

[Lacey Mosley]

Or beating.

[Ida Rodriguez]

Mm.

[Lacey Mosley]

So I'm like, is there some offenses that could just get you cussed out or. I feel like they probably all were beating. So with the rules, the gang essentially became a thieves union with exceptionally good benefits. And as strict as the thieves rules were, they created a tight sisterhood. One of Alice's closest allies in the 40 elephants was Maggie Hughes, whose husband Alfie was one of their best fences. So Alfie was out here selling all the loot that they got. In comparison to Alice's tall stature and relatively measured leadership, Maggie, named Babyface, was 4ft, 11 inches of psychotic, drunken rage.

[Ida Rodriguez]

Sorry, that is.

[Lacey Mosley]

What a. What a description. Oh, she do look like she. She look like she wild. Look at her face. That's the face of somebody who. I don't give a. She said, if you don't give a damn, I don't give a. That's what that face is saying.

[Ida Rodriguez]

Yeah. That Napoleon complex is gender neutral, right?

[Lacey Mosley]

She. Maggie's living on the wish factor. Even in this photo, she wishes somebody would.

[Ida Rodriguez]

I know.

[Lacey Mosley]

She wished the photographer would. Maggie, I love it. I also just love, like, a little. Just, like, angry person. Like, that's. I love that for us. Maggie also drove a Ford V8 car with a periscope on the roof so she could spot police before they saw her. Wow. As the gang grew too big, Alice became too obsessed with controlling it. Members were forbidden from doing anything against her wishes, including marrying men that she did not approve of. Wow. I mean, honestly, I'm not against Alice on that. Because you married a wrong man, you might take the whole gang down.

[Ida Rodriguez]

Absolutely. You will take the whole man. What might you. Absolutely 100% will.

[Lacey Mosley]

Do you know how men ruin things? That's like their favorite pastime ruining stuff.

[Ida Rodriguez]

They ruining it that's what they did to society, right?

[Lacey Mosley]

Alice was like, nah, you know, you're ruining it. You're not going to bring this man in here. You're ruining it. Like, I'm not mad at her. I honestly don't think that that's too ridiculous. Come on. This is fortified crime. In 1925, a member that had become pregnant defied Alice and married, which enraged Alice. Alice. After drinking into a rage, Alice and Maggie led a brutal attack against the newlyweds. That's so violent. It was known as the Lambeth Riot. Dang. For her role as an instigator, Alice was sentenced to 18 months in prison. Maggie, who incited the riot, got 21 months. By the time Alice was freed, a new queen had taken over. Wow. See? Dang. So she was pregnant. Y'all beat up the pregnant lady and her man. I mean, she did tell her not to get married. I don't. I don't know what you do with that.

[Ida Rodriguez]

There are rules to this.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah, right? There's rules and there's levels to this. Well, guys, we're. We're rounding this out. The end of an era. Lily and Rose Kendall took over the gang while Alice was in prison. Known as the Bob haired bandit because of her short fringe and side curls, she specialized in smash and grab raids. Okay, so she reckless. Like, they were over here, like, examining stuff, doing the oceans. 1811. She over here just punching a hole in the glass and. And grabbing all they can. That's messy.

[Ida Rodriguez]

No, I just want to say because that was the terminology used. And I just want to say because I come from my. I grew up in Miami, and the smash and grab thing has always been framed as a black thing from the ghetto, from the hoods of the inner city. And I'm just relieved to know that, as usual, Karen been doing this. Karen been doing this.

[Lacey Mosley]

Karen took her S curl and her flapper dress right on down the Cartier and threw a brick through that bitch.

[Ida Rodriguez]

That's right. So don't put that on us. We learned it from y'all.

[Lacey Mosley]

Right, Cardi B. You thought she was the first one looking, like. Caught our lick. She was, like, looking like we caught a lick. We break the windows. It's so sick.

[Ida Rodriguez]

I love it.

[Lacey Mosley]

I love it. I love it. And I love that she got cute before the robbery. I love that these bitches was beating they faces and getting their finger waved together and then going off, trotting off, popping about to rob a bank.

[Ida Rodriguez]

Let's go do it. I love it.

[Lacey Mosley]

And you gotta look Cute too. So Lillian had been a daring getaway driver and used her skills and car to smack through windows of jewelry stores. Now she driving through the jewelry store. Wow. She turned the jewelry store into a McDonald's.

[Ida Rodriguez]

She just gonna drive through that part. That's innovation.

[Lacey Mosley]

Oh, I love it. So she did this at, like, Cartier to rob them and make a swift getaway. Upon being released from prison, Alice turned to a career of managing a brothel while still continued to be the godmother to aspiring young thieves. During World War II, she refused to evacuate London and eventually died at in 1952, age 55, from multiple sclerosis. One of her proteges, Shirley Pitts, became the Queen of the 40 elephants in the 1960s. Pitt's operation was a similar scale, that of her mentor. Due to both changing fashions, making it harder. Harder to steal and increase security, and declining membership, they kind of started falling off. Eventually, they disbanded upon Pitt's death in 1992. 1992. What? Wow. They kept this shit going for like a century.

[Ida Rodriguez]

And who is this? Wait, wait, who is this?

[Lacey Mosley]

So this woman. This is Shirley Pitts, who took over after homegirl Lillian smash and grab was gone.

[Ida Rodriguez]

All right, Lillian smash and grab.

[Lacey Mosley]

So once smash and grab dipped, then we have Shirley Pitts. But in 1992, the activity is declining. Wow. Like, this is 1992, and they were still running this kind of crime. Crime. By the time Pitt's passing, the 40 elephants were more of a folk legend than an active threat. Still, the 40 elephants remain one of the most successful and longest lasting criminal organizations in the English history due to Mary Carr and Alice Diamond's ruthless and unmatched leadership. It doesn't even sound like they were really killing people. They was just beating people up. This seems like a very chill gang. It's like, we'll beat your ass, but that's pretty much it. We won't kill you.

[Ida Rodriguez]

Well, no, you know, all that violence and stuff. No offense, but respectfully, it's really more of a man thing. Women don't tend to be as violent as men. And when they resort to violence, it's usually reactionary. Because of men.

[Lacey Mosley]

Right. It's never. It's rarely that. They're just like. That's why our shows are always called, like, why Women Kill and stuff like that. But then men's shows would just be like, a murderer making a murderer. Y'all know this guy, he did murders. Like, it's never like, there's no explanation. A crime time of passion. Like, it's just be like, you know how men be.

[Ida Rodriguez]

And it's like, no. No disrespect to the men, because I know that some men will. There are some women who are problematic and violent. Absolutely. But historically, y'all got that right.

[Lacey Mosley]

Like, we. She managed to do it with brass knuckles.

[Ida Rodriguez]

It's your brand.

[Lacey Mosley]

Their brand is violence. They know it. They know it. It. It's time for the end of the show. Scammer of the week. This is where we honor one charlatan who's worthy of our praise. Or maybe not. We don't know yet. We'll see. Scammer of the week today is Pernell. Oh, I like that name. PERNELL Anthony Jones Jr. Too many names. I know you a scammer. PERNELL Anthony Jones Jr. He was 31, and he's pleaded guilty in a lost luggage scam that resulted in over $300,000 worth of fraudulent claims. Beginning in 2015, Jones flew on several airlines using false identity. When he arrived at the destination, he falsely alleged that his bags were lost and requested compensation. Through the scheme, Jones submitted more than 180 false claims and requested more than $550,000 in reimbursement. April 7, 2018, Jones was arrested at Dallas Love Field Airport. Shout out to Dallas. While trying to go through security screening with his 36 fake driver's licenses and 47 credit cards under fictitious names. You can't bring all your identities with you when you travel.

[Ida Rodriguez]

Oh, what you gonna do when you.

[Lacey Mosley]

Get to tsa and they're like, man ID You? Like, hold on, on, hold on. I gotta match it up with the pass. One second, one second. John.

[Ida Rodriguez]

No, pick one.

[Lacey Mosley]

Latrice. Hold on, hold on. I gotta alphabetize. Let me get to the J's. Like, what? Why are you bringing all your IDs? This is messy. I don't like how messy this is, but I am proud of you. He was arrested again in March 2020 while trying to pick up a reimbursement check at the Lewis Armstrong International Airport. If convicted, Jones faces as long as 20 years in prison and a $250,000 fine for each kind of conspiracy and mail fraud. Mail fraud. How they get you but 20 years in prison because he faked some stolen luggage.

[Ida Rodriguez]

And, you know, you get in trouble more for messing with their money than you do with killing people, raping people, molesting children. If you look at, like, people who've committed counterfeit, you know, who make counterfeit money. When you mess with that money, you get there, the consequences are far more great than when you do with other human beings. And I think that is surreal.

[Lacey Mosley]

And Ida, that's like, what's so insulting to me too, is how expensive prison is. So now we're gonna put somebody, a non violent offender, literally somebody who filled out some forms illegally, in jail for up to 20 years. And taxpayers are gonna pay for that. Who's getting scammed here? Me.

[Ida Rodriguez]

That's right. Right.

[Lacey Mosley]

Let this man go free.

[Ida Rodriguez]

Yeah. Put him in a rehabilitation program. You know what's funny is like, you see the. There was a show about counterfeit money, and they had one of the former scammers do a documentary. And now he works at banks and educating people on scams and on educating the banks on counterfeit money. So I'm like, you know, do that with us too. Put us in the positions where we. You. This is a. This is something that can be used to your benefit, that help us educate your employees on scams instead of putting us away for. In prison forever.

[Lacey Mosley]

Exactly. Just so you can get free labor. That's what it's all about is slavery. Because otherwise, why are these people in jail? Especially if they have all of these skills and their savants. I'm like, per, now at least he could be down doing billing and coding at the local doctor's office. He's very proficient in filling out forms. Clearly. Like, we could find some other uses for his skills.

[Ida Rodriguez]

We don't.

[Lacey Mosley]

We don't need to put him in the jail. Well, that brings us to the end of another episode of Scam Goddess. Guys. So, Ida, we always ask, where do you want to be found? Where would you like to be found?

[Ida Rodriguez]

Well, right now, ideally, I'd like to be found on hbo. Max, check out Fighting Words. That first and foremost, it's important for my special to do well because it will create opportunities for other women of color, other black women in comedy. Ideally, that's what I wanted to do, is just bust that door open to create a way for other people, not just me. And then you can find me on Instagram and Twitter at Funny Aida and send me something positive or instructional, something important. Correct me, but don't come at me because I don't respond to foolishness. I don't battle rap with bitter balls on the Internet.

[Lacey Mosley]

Wow, what a statement. I don't battle rap with bitter balls. I love that.

[Ida Rodriguez]

It's my mantra.

[Lacey Mosley]

And I love that for you. I'm the same way. If you come at me with negativity. I know that works for some people. They'll dunk on you and retweet you and, like, tell you off. I'm not going to do it. No free clout. Talk to me nice or I'm not even going to block you because I don't want you to feel seen. I'm a mute. You. You'll never even know.

[Ida Rodriguez]

That's the. That's the death. That's the kiss of death. The. I'm a. I'm a mute you. And you don't even know that. I'm not. Even though you. You doing all your sub tweeting and all of that, and I'm like. I don't even see it.

[Lacey Mosley]

You talking to yourself. You talking to yourself. Okay, guys, as always, you can find us at scamgodispod on all platforms. If you wanna see all the photos of all of these bad bitches. Drip too hard. Okay. Robbing these banks in style and fashion. You know, getting the outfit tailored before they rob the bank.

[Ida Rodriguez]

Cute.

[Lacey Mosley]

Love it. Love that for them. If you want to email us with your scams, just make sure they're retired so we don't fuck up your bags. Scamguyspodmail.com if you want to find me on all platforms. D I V A L A c I d Valacy on all platforms except for TikTok, which is Lacey Mosley. Congregation, get after that merch, y'all. Get the merch while it lasts. I'm about to go into redesign and I swear I am. It's not a scam.

[Ida Rodriguez]

All right?

[Lacey Mosley]

Congregation, Stay scheming. Scam Goddess. This has been an Earwolf production in association with Team Coco. Scam Goddess stars and is hosted by me, Lacey Mosley, AKA Scam Goddess. It's produced by Judith Cargbo, engineered by Marina Paiz and researched by Kalen Brandt. Stay scheming. This has been a Team Coco production in association with Earwolf.

[Ida Rodriguez]

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