Fraud Friday: Saints & Scammers: The Tammy Faye and Jim Bakker Story w/ Sarah Marshall

Summary

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Scam Goddess – Fraud Friday: Saints & Scammers: The Tammy Faye and Jim Bakker Story

Host: Laci Mosley
Guest: Sarah Marshall (host of "You're Wrong About")
Date: September 26, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode of Scam Goddess dives into the infamous televangelist power couple, Tammy Faye and Jim Bakker, chronicling their rise from humble puppet ministry beginnings to building a sprawling religious empire—complete with its own theme park—before scandal, fraud, and hubris brought it crashing down. With guest Sarah Marshall, journalist and host of "You're Wrong About," Laci and Sarah dissect the scams, scandals, and spectacular downfalls, all served with biting wit and cultural commentary.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Scams as the American DNA

[02:24–07:09]

• Sarah Marshall reflects on America's relationship with scams, referencing the “fake” ownership of the New York Islanders and tying it to a broader American tradition of pretending to have money or legitimacy to pull off elaborate deceptions.
  • "Scams like, to know scams is to know America. So, like, I'm an American. I love scams." — Sarah [04:40]
• Laci links these thoughts to the foundation of the country, calling Manifest Destiny a scam— “God told us to rob everybody.”
• They riff on the regularity and normalization of being "a little bit scammed," especially in modern life.

Listener Scam Story: The Taxi Receipt Hustle

[07:09–13:46]

• Listener “Felicity Porter” shares a scam from working at a big law firm: abusing the taxi reimbursement system with blank receipts and cash, netting about $6,000 over three years.
• Laci and Sarah approve as “stealing from the man,” expressing that systems exploiting workers deserve a little payback.
  • “It was a scam that they were working you so damn hard in the first place. So I’m glad you got your coins one way or the other.” — Laci [12:02]
  • “That’s Scam University. That’s long enough to get a degree in scam.” — Sarah [12:42]

Why Do We View Some Scams as Harmless, Even Noble?

[13:46–14:21]

• Discussion turns to how minor, non-greedy scams are often sustainable, unlike dramatic rises and falls captured in movies.

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Historic Hoodwinks: The Rise and Fall of Tammy Faye & Jim Bakker

[18:33–54:43]

Origins and Ambitions

[19:21–29:52]

• Tammy Faye and Jim Bakker began with a traveling puppet ministry before landing on the Christian Broadcast Network (CBN).

• The puppet show’s success led to “Jim and Tammy and Their Friends: Songs and Stories”—delightfully simplistic TV naming conventions.

  • “This just really expresses how low a bar there was for entertainment at this point in America.” — Sarah [31:14]

• Jim Bakker famously claimed:

  • “It's not listed in the Bible, but my spiritual gift, my specific calling from God is to be a television talk show host.” — Narrated by Laci [32:27]
  • Sarah and Laci lampoon televangelist logic: God conveniently tells people to do what they already want.

PTL Club & Heritage USA: Mega-Ministry, Mega-Money

[34:29–43:07]

• Bakker founded the Praise the Lord (PTL) satellite network in Charlotte, which became a televangelist juggernaut.
• On-air, the Bakkers promoted prosperity gospel—send money to the ministry; God will bless you.
  • “Give us all your money and then God will make you rich like us.” — Laci [35:56]
• Excesses mounted:
  • Acquisition of 2,300 acres to build a Christian theme park, Heritage USA, featuring water parks, the world’s largest Wendy’s, and Jerusalem marketplace replicas.
  • “One thing we know about Jesus is that he needs a satellite dish to be able to hear you.” — Sarah [35:18]
• Heritage USA commercials were unintentionally hilarious and, at the end, overtly racist (an out-of-place Middle Eastern “sheik” on a camel).
  • “They had finished doing the ad and then they were like, oh, we forgot to put in the racism.” — Sarah [39:00]

Greed, Overreach, & Internal Collapse

[41:17–44:54]

• “Lifetime partnerships” sold for $1,000 promised hotel stays that exceeded the facility’s actual capacity (oversold well past 100%)—clearly unsustainable.
• Massive donations (~$158 million in the 1980s) flowed in, funding lavish lives: air-conditioned dog houses, mansions, and excess for PTL’s top brass.
• Volunteers (guests) at the park did free labor.

The Sex Scandal, Hush Money, and Financial Ruin

[44:54–51:58]

• Shockwaves hit when it was revealed Jim Bakker used $279,000 in ministry funds to pay hush money to Jessica Hahn, a 21-year-old secretary he assaulted.

  • “It was never reported as an assault. It was reported as an affair, but...it’s like, no, actually he committed fraud, a lot of it, and then happened to be unveiled for being accused of a sex crime.” — Sarah [54:50]

• Jerry Falwell stepped in, ousted the Bakkers, and made things messier with rumors and deeper investigations into PTL’s finances.

• Jim charged with mail fraud, wire fraud, conspiracy—sentenced to 45 years, later reduced to just 8. Tammy Faye was not indicted.

Aftermath & Legacy

[52:28–54:43]

• Tammy divorces Jim while he’s in prison, remarries someone who later goes to prison for bankruptcy fraud. Sarah and Laci joke about Tammy’s “type.”
  • “Everyone I love goes to jail.” — Laci [53:26]
• Jim is paroled, quickly returns to TV with a new wife and ministry, pivoting to selling fake COVID cures.
  • “Can’t keep a good man down—or a bad one. Just can’t keep a man down.” — Laci [56:43]

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Scammer of the Week: Joel Osteen & the Cash in the Wall

[57:00–62:17]

• Story of a plumber who found 500 envelopes of cash in a wall at Joel Osteen’s Lakewood Church, likely tied to a suspicious $600,000 "burglary" years earlier.
• Laci notes how quick Osteen’s church was to claim insurance while the true source/use of the cash was never proven.
  • “Maybe God wants us to put money in our plumbing systems. That's not for me to say.” — Laci [59:22]
• Both hosts compare megachurches' flashy culture to mob movies—everyone's in on the “rules of the game.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the origins of U.S. scams:

  • "Manifest Destiny is literally them being like, God told us to rob everybody. No, he actually did. I got a parchment paper from God.” — Laci [05:03]

• On prosperity gospel logic:

  • "Give me this dollar to give to God and then God will give you back ten dollars." — Sarah [35:56]
  • "Live by faith, not by sight that we stealing. Don't live by that. Don't look at that. Don't look at us. Give us the money and have faith..." — Laci [36:04]

• On televangelists and TV as calling:

  • “It's not listed in the Bible, but my spiritual gift, my specific calling from God is to be a television talk show host.” — Jim Bakker (quoted by Laci) [32:27]

• On theme park excess:

  • “It was intended to be the world’s largest Wendy’s.” — Laci [40:11]

• On recurring scammer redemption stories:

  • “Can’t keep a good man down—or a bad one...” — Laci [56:43]

• On televangelists’ “mob” culture:

  • "No, God is just using me through this gun. I am a vessel. I'm a vessel for your murder. No, I'm just...You just about to do a little meet and greet with Jesus.” — Laci [61:39]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Timestamp | |-----------------------------------------------|------------| | Guest Introduction & Scam Philosophy | 02:00–07:09| | Listener Scam Story (Taxi Receipts) | 07:09–13:46| | Historic Hoodwinks - Bakker Backstory | 18:33–29:52| | Rise of PTL Club & Heritage USA | 34:29–43:07| | Overselling Partnerships & Theme Park Absurdity| 41:17–44:54| | Scandal, Sex Crime, Falwell Takeover | 44:54–51:58| | Prison, Divorce, Return to TV | 52:28–54:43| | Scammer of the Week (Joel Osteen) | 57:00–62:17|

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Tone & Style

Laci and Sarah approach the tale with a blend of incisive satire and historical curiosity, never losing sight of the dark absurdities at play, but finding humor in everything from puppet ministries to the logistics of televangelist theme park rides.

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Where to Find The Hosts

• Sarah Marshall: "You're Wrong About", "You Are Good", Twitter @yourewrongabout, @aregoodpod [62:17]
• Laci Mosley: @divalaci on all platforms, plus roles on iCarly, Black Lady Sketch Show, Kenan [62:32]

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Summary Takeaway

This episode lampoons the American obsession with charisma, spectacle, and the idea that with just enough pageantry (and a bit of paper forgery), anyone can manifest absolute power—from hockey teams to ministries to whole theme parks. The story of Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker is less a morality tale than a mirror for America’s enduring faith in big promises, easy money, and the redemptive arc—so long as you can land back on TV.

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As always: Stay schemin’!

Transcript

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So your hair feels more clean and it has added volume and texture. It's great on your hair and easy on your wallet. Buy Batiste Dry shampoo online or in store at your nearest retailer. What's poppin, Congregation? It's your girl, Lacey Mosley, AKA Scam Goddess. Welcome to an episode of Fraud Fridays where we release older episodes from the Scam Goddess vault. That's right. Fraud Fridays is where we bring back your favorite episodes, the Paywall.

[B]

Enjoy this episode from behind the Paywall.

[A]

And as always, stay scheming.

[B]

Scams cops, robbery and fraud. Scam cars. Robbery and fraud. Scam Goddess.

[A]

What's poppin, Congregation?

[B]

We're back in another joyous day. That's Scams has made. How y' all doing? Come on. Parasocial relationship. Oh, good for y'. All. Oh, damn, I hate to hear that. Ooh, you down bad, sis. All right, well, hopefully it's all good news. While you talk to your headphones or your radio. Today we have guys. What? Am I excited? Yes. You know, I am. I'm very. I'm very. I know. I always. I always, like, try to really amp it up each time, but I always love the guests that we Get. And this is such a great guest. Huge get. Y' all already know the girl, but I'm still gonna introduce her. Today we have the amazing journalist and podcast host on the show. She hosts the popular podcast, you're wrong about, where she does deep dives into events, people, or phenomenons that have been miscast in the public imagination. She also co hosts the you are good podcast alongside Alex Steed. Congregation, please welcome Sarah Marshall on the show. You won't be forgetting this. Sarah Marshall.

[C]

Honey.

[B]

Sarah, how are you? Hi.

[C]

I'm so great. I feel like the people are really. I feel like I can see the people that are listening to this. I normally can't see them, but I can see them right now. Hello.

[B]

That probably scares them. They actually probably. They don't want to be found.

[C]

You look great. You look great.

[B]

Yeah, you all look so good. Look, I'm trying to be, like, the trash blues clues. Like, I want to be Tabitha Brown, but like a criminal.

[C]

That's what we mean.

[B]

I'll encourage you to be your worst self, sis. To be. But I always have to ask Sarah, what's your relationship with scams? Have you ever been scammed? Do you like them? Do you hate them? It could be anything.

[C]

I love this question. If I have been significantly scammed, I don't know about it. I feel as if I assume from living on the Internet, the way a lot of people do, that we're all getting just a little bit scammed a couple times a year at this point. But that question made me think of how, in the fall of 2016, I watched this ESPN documentary about this guy who fraudulently bought the New York Islanders. He made this fake paperwork that made it look like he had more money than he did.

[B]

Love that.

[C]

And so he illegally owned the Islanders, the hockey team, for, like, a few months, I think, and then it caught up with him, and he went to federal prison. But a. He did a better job of fake owning the Islanders than their recent actual owners had done. Like, he kind of saved the team.

[B]

Right. Were the girls winning? Was the merch sales up? Like, were they Islanders? Is that hockey? It's hockey, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Were the pucks doing his thing?

[C]

They were struggling, and he negotiated a good TV deal for them. And I remember at the time, you know, this is around when Trump is campaigning, and I was just like, I'm noticing that, like, pretending to have money can achieve exactly the same results as actually having money, and that's very interesting. And I feel like I've. Maybe that was when I realized And I think a lot of people realize that scams like, to know scams is to know America. So, like, I'm an American. I love scams. I want to know more about them.

[B]

We were born into scams. This whole country. Manifest Destiny is literally them being like, God told us to rob everybody. No, he actually did. Just I got a parchment paper from God and he said, manifest Destiny. He said, let's rob everybody and steal the country. Yeah, True.

[C]

Forged paperwork. Classic. So you can get the islanders, you can get a continent, whatever you want.

[B]

I also love Manifest Destiny because it's not like they were like, oh, America's gonna be heart shaped. Or like, oh, there's like a vision. It's like, what the fuck does America even look like? It's all janky. We got Florida little penis hanging off like it's not even cute. So it's like they just lied and stole everything. It's not even like it made some beautiful circle or some kind of symbolic shape.

[C]

No, it's like when you stay too long in the buffet and then you get back to the table and you're like, these things, they took too much stuff and none of it goes together, right?

[B]

We all gotta go to Golden Corral and manifest our destinies. I love that for us. You know what's crazy about this hockey thing that you're telling me? I feel like, especially if the team was doing better, you know what I mean? Like, the hockey's hockey and the pucks are pucking. I don't know hockey. The dudes are fighting. You know, it's a good fight happening. You know, they sliding around in their church shoes and beating each other with the sticks if it's cute. And they getting ratings and they have a great TV deal. I feel like it's more embarrassing to come out and be like, okay, so we let this guy complete and own part of this hockey team. Like, I feel like you just gotta close the door and handle that one indoors.

[C]

Long island style.

[B]

Yes, Long island style. I feel like, I don't know, y' all have a fisticuffs. You demote him, maybe he stays on in some kind of leadership position. Give the man a check. Obviously, he was talented. He just had the resources. So he made.

[C]

I'm still waiting for the Scorsese movie about this. Yeah.

[B]

Oh, goodness. The Scorsese movie will have tons of cocaine and women naked for no reason. And I'm ready to go on the rink. Somehow there would just be naked women skating on ice. And it's like this don't this never happened.

[C]

There you go, Marty. You haven't done that yet, as far as I know.

[B]

Well, no, that's dope. I admire people who think of stuff like that. I mean, money's fake. It's all on paper.

[C]

It's all.

[B]

You know what I mean? It's rarely tangible, so why not, you know, not mad at it at all. Well, let's get into our first segment here. What's hot in fraud? This is where we warn our listeners about popping scams on the street. As always, snitch on your friends and family. Just make sure your scam is retired. And scamgottispodmail.com. i just need a fake name for this person. Sarah, we don't care about gender.

[C]

Hmm. Felicity Porter.

[B]

Oh, Felicity. Love that. Oh, poor Felicity. She got scammed out of an acting career. I wonder who that hairstylist was who cut her hair. Cause I feel like you gotta go back into great clips, Felicity, and fight them.

[C]

I need an oral history of that. Cause, Yeah, I don't know where exactly the buck stops, but that. I mean, talk about money lost.

[B]

You should do that. All you're wrong about. Because I need to know what happened.

[C]

And some people don't even know about that. And it was Such a moment, 1999.

[B]

And, like, she could have just got a weave. Like, why don't we just let Felicity get a weave? Everybody was like, no, bitch, we know, right?

[C]

They could have said it was a dream, but they kept. No, they kept going.

[B]

Yeah, I think they thought we would get over it. And we had just so little to focus on at that time.

[C]

America's still not over it.

[B]

We aren't. We actually are still kind of mad. Like, Felicity, drop your barber's address so we can fight them. We will fight them for you, girl.

[C]

Okay. Oh, yeah.

[B]

So Felicity says, I'm surprised no one has ever wrote in about this scheme. Probably because they don't want to fuck up their bags. See, and I tell y' all not to fuck your bags up, but I'm not about that life anymore, so here goes. So you just gonna ruin it for everybody because you're not about that life no more?

[C]

Mmm.

[B]

Felicity sounded just like the show. I worked as a paralegal in a big law firm. This is in quotes. AKA Pays well. But they work you to death and expect money will solve any issue you have, including them treating you like dog shit. Ooh. I was working 12 to 14 hour days and on weekends and holidays for the last three years there. Wow. 12 to 14 hour days at law doing paralegal work. That just means you're just typing all day, right? Like emailing, typing. Yeah.

[C]

You're being a little brain in a jar for, like, 95% of that, I bet.

[B]

Filing, using sticky notes. That sounds terrible. So she's working these really long hours. 12 to 14 hours a day and on weekends and on holidays. Damn, sis, I'm so sorry. The ball was dropping. And you was in your office, like, online sign and just typing. That's so unfortunate.

[C]

Into her own slipper.

[B]

Oh, tragic. So the firm had a policy that if he worked past 7pm or before 7am they would reimburse the cost of a taxi. And by the way, the firm made like, $4 billion in one year, but they can't give. Okay, this person is definitely black. By the way, the firm made $4 billion one year, but they can't give a hoe. A firm credit card. So basically, she's like, y' all made all this money. Like, why do I have to write these invoices to get these cars? Like, this is disrespectful. So I worked past 7pm every day. So eventually I came up with a way to get some extra coin. I would pay for the taxis and cash and ask for a paper receipt from the driver. The receipts were blank, so you could put in any fare or tip that you wanted. And sometimes the drivers would just give me a stack of the blank receipts. I know that's right. They better help you do crime.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

This is making me feel better about New York taxi drivers because I used to be beefing with them. Like, when Uber, you know, wiped them off the face of the earth, practically everybody was like, this is so sad. These people have medallions. They spend millions of dollars. They work their whole life for these cabs. I was like, fuck them cabs. I'm black, and I'd have been hit by so many cars. And they were all cabs. I've hit been hit by several cabs. And then if I trip now, they're.

[C]

Redeeming themselves maybe a tiny little bit.

[B]

Right? This is making me feel better about them because I. I was beefing with the whole cab industry for a long time because they didn't want to pick me up because I was black. They also didn't want to pick me up because I was going to Brooklyn. Probably more the Brooklyn thing than the black thing. I won't lie.

[C]

You know, they just hate making money, I guess.

[B]

Yeah. You used to have a trick cab driver. Sometimes I have my white friend's hail cab. And then I get in and be like, gotcha, bitch. So, you know, taxis, okay. Y' all are making a cuter name for yourselves. So it was pretty easy to get home on public transit. So I would leave at 7pm Take the train, and pocket the money for the taxi home. Or when I needed more receipts, I would take a taxi. And then when I submitted the receipt, I would add a few more dollars to the receipt. I would say, over three years, I probably pocketed around $6,000. She said, in that same amount of time, did probably $3 million worth of work that that firm got paid for. Plus, lawyers are a scam anyway. So I don't feel too bad as a woman of color who face microaggressions from a bunch of rich white men and the firm defends the corporations and exploit the environment. She was like, basically like, y' all evil.

[C]

Fuck y'.

[B]

All. And, Felicity, you're right. Like, I'm glad that you got your little scam off. It was a scam that they were working you so damn hard in the first place. So I'm glad you got your coins one way or the other. Six grand, like an extra bonus. That's not bad. Three years, though, Felicity, I feel like you should have ran the bag up a little more. Like, be like, oh, yeah, this taxi was $400. Where did you go? Connecticut.

[C]

Had to courier some paperwork over. Had to be done, right?

[B]

Where did you tell them you lived? I feel like you told them you lived too close. I'd have been like, yeah, y' all know I live in Coney Island, y'.

[C]

All.

[B]

Y' all live in Maryland.

[C]

Feels like you're. You're. You know, you're trying not to be too extravagant with it and get caught. But also, you've got a nice. I mean, that's Scam University. That's a whole. You know, that's long enough to get a degree in scam. And I. I mean, I think that if you are working for a company that's making this much money and that's exploiting you as a worker, then they are, pardon the expression, asking for it, right?

[B]

And I know. I absolutely agree with you also love Scam University. I am stealing that from you. It is now my intellectual property. Everybody remember that different. Remember how I had said, put it on my honey?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Remember how I said it first? This there. Marina, when you edit this make backwards so that I could steal that? No, but you're absolutely right. It's kind of like the system is a scam. You Know we gotta get over when we can. And also, I gotta say, you're a great scammer, Felicity. Cause you didn't get greedy. You didn't get caught, and then you left. Now, I would have gotten a little greedier. I definitely would have told him, I live in Florida and I need to ride home. I need a ride home every night from New York to Florida.

[C]

Or just for Thanksgiving a couple times. Just the three days in traffic. Yeah.

[B]

I ain't tell y' all I live in West Palm Beach. Yeah. I be commuting every day.

[C]

And also, like, this is. I mean, this makes me think of how in all the great scam movies, which, again, are, you know, a lot of them by Scorsese, it's always this arc of, like, we got good at what we were doing, but we got too greedy and we rose and then we fell. And I feel like there's all kinds of quieter scams being committed all over the world that are just gonna ride it out peacefully because nobody's thinking too big.

[B]

Right?

[C]

It's really beautiful.

[B]

It's the same thing that I always think this is kind of dark, which is not what we normally do on this podcast. But I always think, like, when I see those aged up photos of missing people from, like the 70s and stuff, and they're like, he would be 92 now. And we drew his face. Actually, when do they stop drawing? Cause I know they'll age you up. You go missing at 5, and they'll be like, oh, he would be 30 or something. But when are they like, okay, let's just give up.

[C]

Maybe they stop when they're like 50. They're like, you know what? He's on his own. No hand holding in this country. But yeah, you can't go to the bathroom at Walmart without seeing those.

[B]

And damn, you can't even get like. Back in the day, used to be able to get some good press if you were missing. Like, we would do retweets on Twitter, but back in the day, the girls would put you on the milk cartons. Like, you would be on border farms. Like, nowadays. I can't imagine if I picked up some oat milk and it was just like a little girl on the back. I'd be like, oh, it sounds very bizarre. I heard.

[C]

I think I remember that they stopped doing that because they were like, you know, the positive outcomes didn't balance the fact that it was freaking out kids so much. The real result was everyone got to be scared, which is how things go a lot here, right?

[B]

Now we have the Internet, so we can obviously all the time.

[C]

Why outsource that to Milk? And we have a whole technology for it. Milk gets to be free from that.

[B]

Right fear right at your fingertips. It's called a phone scam.

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[B]

And it's time for my favorite part. Historic Hoodwings. I am going to put a content warning on this episode just to let you guys know. Content warning. There is a mention of sexual assault in this story. We'll flag when that exactly comes up for everyone. All right, so from the mid-1970s until the late 1980s, televangelist power couple Tammy Faye and Jimmy Baker ran an empire with a massive audience. Sarah, I already know you know about this. So together they built their ministry, which grew from a puppet show to a satellite network. At one point, they even built the third most visited theme park in the United States. But with that much money involved, it couldn't last forever. So I love that they took a puppet show about Jesus.

[C]

Mm. And then naturally. I mean, what naturally follows from that if not a theme park?

[B]

A theme park. Right. Like, I hope that they have, like a Jesus theme rise. Like, I want to get on the burning bush. That sounds fun. That sounds.

[C]

Yeah. Like an exciting ride, especially at the end. Yeah. And the idea of recreating holy places that they're gonna. That it's both classic Americana and also a recreation of Jerusalem for people in the Carolinas.

[B]

Like a long ride where they part in the Red Sea.

[C]

See, I have no idea if they did that, but they should have done that. They definitely had water park type features. I feel like there's a part of me that when I was younger and snobbier would have been like, oh, that's just so tacky and terrible. And part of me now is like, that's beautiful. That's probably one of the better things they did.

[B]

Right. And look, I'm a voyeur, so I would go just to see what they're doing. It's like, can I play games in the arcade? It's like, who's Mary's baby daddy? Like, we don't know. It's like, clues, I guess. Who? Like, what? Like, what are y' all doing over there? And I hope it's all Jesus related, because that would be very fun for me.

[C]

I was really sad, actually, because for years I really wanted to go to the Holy Land Experience, which is a more recent Bible themed theme park in Orlando. And I think they closed within the last couple years, but they had guys playing Jesus and just walking around doing Jesus stuff. I guess you could still find these people and talk to them because any kind of good looking young actor in Orlando, there's a good chance he played Jesus for a while. But what effect does that have on you as a young performer?

[B]

Rippling abs. They made Jesus so sexy. Even that was always something that weirded me out. When I'm not Catholic. I'm Baptist, so we have crosses, but we don't have, like, crucifixes. Like, we don't have in our churches. Like, Jesus, like, laying up there with the loin cloth with the rippling abs, right? And I'm like, why they make him so sassy? I mean, I guess we wouldn't want to worship him if he was, like, ugly, but I just feel like he's a little too horny to. For us to be a church.

[C]

That's a really great question. And why is it also that he's sexy and in pain? And you could potentially spend thousands of hours of your young life being like, look at that sexy, in pain man who's saving me from sin.

[B]

Right? It's like, why does he have a bulge? And, like, why are all the nails, like, cutely placed?

[C]

Why is he always hot? Why does he always have a hot face?

[B]

I don't get it. And it's, like, the thickest hair. Anyway. Before I go to hair.

[C]

Anyway, moving on from.

[B]

I'm just saying, baby, know what? You said Jesus didn't need to be sexy, but it's okay. Whatever works, guys. So about the Bakers. Tammy Faye Lavallee was born in International falls, Minnesota, in 1942. Wow. Gee. Oh. 1942 to Pentecostal preacher parents. I didn't know she was born in the 40s. That just feels wild, right?

[C]

I mean, so is Stevie Nicks, while we're on the subject.

[B]

Oh, and we got a picture of Tammy. Tammy Lavallee up right now. Okay. Those eyebrows, they're giving early 2000s. Like, it's like five hairs in a line. And I love that for her.

[C]

She was like, maybe the big person who carried that look over between, like, the 1930s and 2003. She carried it in her hands.

[B]

And she also. She's got that short haircut. It's not quite a Karen. It's given. I have a little more fun than a Karen. But it is like that. It's like a name for that, right? It's like, I don't call the manager. I just complain to you. I would take up a lot of your time. And I love that part.

[C]

Just the hair of, like, I wanted larger shrimp. I expected these shrimp to be bigger.

[B]

Right? She's the one who leaves a Yelp review in his life. Like, the food is good, but the portions are very small. Yes. She wants Larger portions. But she's not going to call the police on you.

[C]

Okay. Cute. Good for her.

[B]

So Jim Baker was born in 1940 and grew up in Muskegon. Muskegon.

[C]

I think it's Muskegon, so.

[B]

Muskegon, Michigan. Tammy Faye and Jim met in 1960 as students at North Central Bible College in Minneapolis, Minnesota. Oh, all right. Come on. Bible college. I can't pay to go to Bible college. Like, church is free.

[C]

Isn't that a lot of hours, potentially? It's like, how many more hours do you need? Yeah, good point.

[B]

And I just give the church my 10%. I don't ask them what they gonna do with it. The building fund for the building. That never happens. Like, look, I'm. Mind my business. I'm gonna start my own church. So I don't wanna know what y' all doing with the money.

[C]

You start with puppets and then you work your way up.

[B]

Yeah, I didn't know. That's how you start the church. You start with puppets.

[C]

It just day one, One puppet, day two, two puppets, day three, church.

[B]

And do we think these are like Pinocchio style puppets? Like, where you have on the little string, like a. What is that?

[C]

They're little hand puppets.

[B]

Like Sesame Street.

[C]

Yeah, they're like. Yeah, kind of like the very early Jim Henson, I guess, is what. It's a little bit like, you know, the Martians on Sesame street, the Menomina guys. It's a little bit like that. Yeah, they're cute little hand puppets, and they're just like. There's some good footage of them. I recommend these puppets. Puppets are hard sell these days, but I like them.

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[C]

Elmo does want to talk about God and the miracle of the rock that could eat the cookie.

[B]

Right? Elmo says, you're going to hell. Well, oh, my God. I would love that. Oh, my God. That whole rock discourse. Listen, I'm about to start watching Sesame street again because that shit was better than Real Housewives. I was like, ellen, Elmo is out here dragging the girls.

[A]

He was like, nah, Rocco.

[B]

He's like, tell Elmo how he gonna eat the cookie. He is not alive. It was like, damn, Elmo's had it with us in our shit.

[C]

This is like the moment Elmo lost it. Elmo decided to clean that a hard rain was gonna fall on Sesame Street.

[B]

Zoey is gaslighting him. She should have let him have that cookie. I couldn't believe that shit. I was like, zoe, let's fight. Let's fight. Okay, meet me at Great Clips Cause I'm also gonna kill two birds with one Rocco and beat Felicity's fucking hairstyle.

[C]

Meet me behind Maria's fix it shop and we will see hands.

[B]

Tell Oscar to get out that trash can. We all joking. So for their first date, Jim invited Tammy Faye to attend church with him. And at the end of it, he told her, tammy Lavalley, I have loved you ever since the minute I saw you walk into school.

[C]

Sweet thang.

[B]

I added the sweet thang before asking her to marry him. How our first day gonna be church? That's so cheap, bitch. Is it Liz gonna be on communion? Can I get a wafer and a sip of wine? Like, what is this? That's so ghetto. He better did your ties for you. When they pass the collection plate, he better have paid twice, because I be damned.

[C]

Like, let's go Dutch on this collection plate, Tammy.

[B]

Right? No. You've given for both of us today, okay? He gave his only son. You given ours for both of us, okay? Please. Ghetto. So a year after their marriage, the couple dropped out of school to pursue their dreams of creating a ministry. From there, they began traveling and singing evangelist. That's such a wild, like, look, I'm an actor, you know. You work in entertainment as well. You're also a journalist. You write, like, I guess these are careers that. I don't know. Writing that seems like a career that a lot of people go after. And it doesn't seem that weird. A lot of people have English degrees even if they don't use them. But I feel like the acting and the podcasting side, that's just like, kind of weird shit that we were like, yeah, I'm do this for money, right?

[C]

Leave me alone, Mom. You don't understand technology.

[B]

Yeah, I'm gonna talk into a microphone in a room by myself, and people will pay me for it.

[C]

It's like, okay, sweetie. I feel like we might have missed a shot somewhere back, right?

[B]

I don't know about Sarah, y'. All. She said she gonna talk into her computer by herself, and that's how she gonna pay all her bills.

[C]

I don't know, y', all who foresaw that working out. Although I guess this is kind of similar because this is like, the beginning of TV being an important medium. So for them to be like, we're going to talk to all of America at once. Everyone would just be like, what? No, you're not right?

[B]

I mean, I guess it's like doing stand up. It was like, we taking Jesus on the road.

[C]

This is the Jesus farewell tour.

[B]

He's not coming back.

[C]

Yeah, I think it's funny. I mean, I guess it's a way to feel, if you're a true believer, to feel like you're not being super ambitious or kind of doing something that calls on you doing a good job because you're like, it's the Holy Spirit flowing through me. I'm just a vessel for all of the holy stuff I'm bringing all around America. But in real, if you take that out of the equation, which I'm not going to pass judgement on, whether that was there or not, then, like, you're just going from down from town to town, talking about God to people and trying to make a living that way. It's very ballsy.

[B]

Extremely. It's like y' all were like, jesus.

[A]

The world tour, you know, like.

[C]

And also it's selling a product that everyone already has.

[B]

Right? We all do know. And the Bible is free. It's in most hotel room suites. Like, if you want a free Bible, you can get it. Like, you can definitely get yourself a free Bible. And it's like, that's the part, I feel like, where they brought in the singing. Cause it's like, okay, but it's also gonna be a concert, y'. All. Like, we got a percussionist, we got a gay musician leader that we won't tell that he's gay. And we're gonna.

[C]

It's guys you've never seen before.

[B]

Okay, are y' all ready to throw it in a circle for Jesus? Okay. Throw that anointing in a circle. So, you know, they're basically like, let's take Jesus on the road. And they both thought, yeah, this is a good idea. By 1966, their ministry had expanded to puppet Min to a puppet ministry hosted on Pat Robinson's Christian Broadcast Network. So now they're on somebody's tv. Okay, you were right about the puppets. And we'll post this in the episode. You know, we'll post it on scamdazpod's Instagram so you guys can see the puppets as well. But you were right. They're the puppets where you stick the hand up the butt. And the puppets are kinda giving quality. And, like, it's an alligator, a dog, another dog, and a little white girl. These are the puppets. I'm trying to figure out what kind of stories they telling.

[C]

I also love this looks like an album, and I love the idea. This just, like, really expresses how low a bar there was for entertainment at this point in America. It's an album where you hear puppets singing which is obviously very meaningful because it's an album, so they couldn't. The puppet needs to be there in the studio. Right. It's not like you can just have someone singing in a voice.

[B]

Well, they're on the broadcast network, so. Right. This is visual. Also, I love the naming of this. Man, I wish I had been around for TV around this time. Cause this is just the laziest. They named the show Jim and Tammy and Their Friends. Songs and Stories.

[C]

They're not gonna overthink this one. You lose half the battles in overthinking. Just. What's my name? What's your name? All right, good.

[B]

Now, we have shows like Yellowjacket. And I'm like, oh, Yellowjacket. Is that about bees and like. Nah, it's a bunch of girls gonna eat each other in the woods. What? Why is the name Yellowjacket girl? I don't know. It gets the people going. Okay. The show's called Euphoria. It's just a bunch of sad kids doing heroines. What? It's called Euphoria. Why? What a simpler time, Jimmy. Tammy and their Friends. Songs of stories. We know what we gonna get. So they are on the Christian Broadcast Network. However, Jim had broader ambitions and was quoted saying, it's not listed in the Bible, but my spiritual gift, my specific calling from God is to be a television talk show host. Amen, Jim.

[C]

The problem with someone saying that God told them to do something is that you can't say that he didn't.

[B]

Right. It's giving. Manifest destiny. Jim was like, God had told me. He texted. He told me I'm supposed to be on TV now.

[C]

You know the thing I most want in the world as a person? Yeah. God's into it. I just heard.

[B]

So, yep, God told me he wanted me to invent Tesla and use up all the world's resources and kind of go to space. Eli, nobody told you that? No, God told me that.

[C]

I was surprised God was into it, but, like, who am I to say no? So.

[B]

Yep, here we go.

[C]

We're doing it.

[B]

Robbery.

[F]

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[E]

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[C]

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[B]

So eventually, Jim got his wish and went on to co host the 700 Club with Pat. The beginning of the beginning of PTL. In 1974, after two children, the Bakers moved to Charlotte, North Carolina, where Jim founded the Praise the Lord PTL satellite network. Dad, you gotta have cable to praise the Lord. Like, I can't do that with an antenna.

[C]

They gotta go into space.

[B]

I gotta get Comcast to praise the Lord. Okay, so the program hosted prominent ministers, discussed current affairs, showcased popular Christian musicians and featured guests such as former US President Ronald Reagan and WR early leader of the Black Panther Party, Eldridge Cleaver. Wow, they was really covering the gamut. You know us, lax. We do love some Jesus, you know, Come on. Representation, inclusivity.

[C]

One thing we know about Jesus is that he needs a satellite dish to be able to hear you. Famously hard of hearing, right?

[B]

It's like, come on now. So in order to fund the massive enterprise and buy airtime, the Bakers hosted telethons asking viewers to sign up for monthly pledges to become PTL club partners. Tammy, Jim showcase their flashy lifestyle as an example of what viewers may achieve if they bought enough into the PTL ministry and preached that God rewards faith and heavy tithing with financial blessings. Give us all your money and then God will make you rich like us.

[C]

You following it makes total sense, right? Like, give me this dollar to give to God and then God will give you back $10.

[B]

And God is all about, look, live by faith, not by sight that we stealing. Don't live by that. Don't look at that. Don't look at us. Give us the money and have faith that you gonna get some. Wow. Love this. The show's ratings soon vaulted higher and higher and yielded even greater financial returns. But by the mid-1980s, the Bakers had amassed a multimillion dollar empire. Woo. Heritage USA gonna keep plowing through the income from their satellite network, allowed the Baker. Why do you want to say it's. They have two K's. It's B a K. K, E, R, S. And I keep want to say barkers or like, it just feels racist to have that many K's in this name, right? I don't.

[C]

I'm like trying to figure out where that came from because I guess maybe I've seen that spelling somewhere.

[B]

It feels like there was three K's and then the girls were like, okay, well, the KKK is out, y'. All. Like, we should probably add the K's, the extra K's. And they were like, okay, we'll take one out.

[C]

Let's keep one extra. Yeah, let's keep the extra. It makes it a little special. Yeah, right?

[B]

The Bakers with two K's, it's just. Okay. So they use the money from their satellite Jesus network to purchase a total of 2,300 acres of land for a new venture. A 500 room hotel and water park complex they called Heritage USA. We have a video of a commercial. Ooh. And this video comes with a side of racism. Wow. See that extra K, I wasn't wrong. And everybody knows on the show I do not read these beforehand. I do, like, submit. And you know, I work with Kaylin, our researcher. But I try to be surprised like you guys. I want to be along for the ride. So I think it's very fun that we just were like the KKK and Bakers and now we got to get a racism commercial. Ooh. Love a racism ad. Play it. Let's see what is happening. Who is shaking this car?

[C]

Very strong child in there.

[B]

Pause for one second. I'm gonna. I just wanna describe a little bit of this to you guys. We'll like post.

[C]

There's so much going on on Instagram.

[B]

There's so much going on. So the first scene was a station wagon that definitely four dudes were like shaking back and forth. I don't know, to give it movement. Don't understand that. They were like, we can't afford to turn the car on. Or like, like maybe this is before sound got really good and they did it bootleg. But they were like, just shake the car. That'll make it look like it's on. Because you know how cars just be shaking like they in an earthquake. And then they said something about Heritage usa. What did they say? Did you hear that, Sarah? I think.

[C]

How far to Heritage usa? Which way? Heritage usa.

[B]

Okay. All right, let's continue.

[E]

How to get to Heritage usa?

[B]

It's also a lake. Okay, now there's a camel. Oh, boy.

[C]

They had finished doing the ad and then they were like, oh, we forgot to put in the racism that we.

[B]

Just put the racism in post. Just add them in post. We don't got time. Yeah, the corn shaking dudes went home. They was tired. So at the end, there's just like a man who appears to be like a sheik, but he's on a camel and he's got an accent. And I don't know if it's his real accent or if that is a white man in tan or. I can't tell you.

[C]

He looks like a guy who was like, in an earlier part of the ad and they just had him double up roles.

[B]

Also, all the white people were in cars and then they just had a man pull up on a camel.

[C]

What was he gonna buy there for that matter? I guess they have water. Got him some water for his.

[B]

I don't even understand. But, you know, it was the 80s.

[C]

So, like, we can't make an ad for a theme park without taking a generalized dig at the Middle East. It would be unpatriotic, Right?

[B]

It was so unnecessary at the end for no reason. Oh, I love it. So the park's attractions included a shop that replicated the experience of shopping in a Jerusalem marketplace.

[C]

King's dream. Doing chores in ancient Jerusalem.

[B]

It was intended to be the world's largest Wendy's. What?

[C]

That's pretty beautiful.

[B]

A passion play depicting the life and death of Jesus Christ with the aid of a light show special effects. Yeah, I love that. You're gonna go see the death of Jesus and you gotta sign a waiver making sure that you don't have epilepsy first. Like, what? A light show? What? So in 1986, it added a $12 million water park that included the world's largest wave pool, with plans to also install a life size replica of Jerusalem as it was in Jesus day, which would have been about like 0.7 square miles. Okay, were they baptizing this wave pool too? I feel like if I'm going to the water park, I should also be able to just throw in a free baptismal.

[C]

You know, I don't see why not. I mean, if we pay a little.

[B]

Extra $15, I should get a souvenir cup and a baptism. I just feel like that's fair.

[C]

Oh, yeah, and a coupon for a medium fries.

[B]

This is a pretty big park, and this is like one of those fake beaches that you'll see at water parks where you can walk in and it's shallow at first and then deep and, you know, usually body temperature and just fuel up everyone's urine. That's what it's giving love that for them. One of their large missteps was that they sold PTL Lifetime Partnerships for $1,000, which came with an annual three night stay at the Heritage Grand Hotel. So many partnerships were sold. They amounted to more than 100% capacity of the hotel at any time. So they were like, oh, if you gave us coins, remember, because you're in PTL, then we'll give you $1,000 stay that'll also have three nights at the Grand Heritage Hotel. So basically, they couldn't make money off of the water park because they had let their disciples hook it up all the time. So many partnerships were sold that they couldn't actually have anybody else to come. So over three years, followers contributed $158 million. This is the 80s, so almost a billion dollars today. In addition to the hotel, Heritage USA also included an extensive campground, RV park, timeshares, mid range luxury hotels, condominiums, all types of stuff. Park guests were also encouraged to spend part of their vacation time volunteering for the ministry.

[C]

Not quite a full Scientology, but they're. They're edging their way over there.

[B]

At.

[C]

Least, at least with them.

[B]

They're like, you can, you can ride the log water slide, the Moses part, the Red Sea, but also we do need you to pick up some trash in his name.

[C]

It's like, yeah, you like going to Disney World? Well, try working at Disney World. Can't have one without the other. Makes it more fun.

[B]

It's godly. It's only godly. Y' all gotta plunge three toilets for every ride. Okay? It's only right. So this saved the ministry thousands of dollars, obviously, which would be spent on ventures in the future. So the rift. While the Bakers were busy growing their massive, lucrative empire in private, they were growing apart. Jim poured all of his energy into building the PTL network, while Tammy Faye, though a powerhouse co host herself, felt alone at home with no help for Jim to like, look after the kids. So now Jim is just like, I got Jesus business. And he's like, but it's little Timmy's softball game. He was like, he's still hitting it off a T. I don't give a fuck about Timmy.

[C]

Both slides don't build themselves, you know, right?

[B]

Making all this Jesus juice me. He didn't want to help lord. So in 1987, the Charlotte observer published an expose revealing Jim Bakker had sexually assaulted Jessica Hahn, a 21 year old church secretary from Long island, more than six years earlier. So this finally comes out. Jim used like $279,000 of PTL funds to buy Jessica's silence. But in the following years, never admitted, despite evidence in Jessica's account that the sex was non consensual. So he's out here being a dirty, bad man. Jim admitted to both the affair. It's not an affair, bro. Like, that's not how affairs work. And hush money. And reluctantly stepped down from his position at ptl, handing temporary control over to televangelist Jerry Falwell. Once at the helm, Falwell discovered that PTL was deeply in debt, bleeding 2 million a month. Jim. So Jim, who's out here being a nasty man, and you're not even running the business, right? Like, and you're a bad father.

[C]

Think this was going to go, giving someone temporary control of your business, right?

[B]

Like, of course they're going to do some forensic accounting. Amen.

[C]

Yeah. So take it over and don't look into it too closely.

[B]

You are now the face of this. Don't open the file cabinet, okay? Just. Just. Just say what we told you to say. Don't ask no questions. Amen. Gonna ask some questions, bro. So this guy is just a. Look, he's just bad at life. Like, Jim, you're a bad person, you're a bad father, and you're a bad business person, which is the least important of the three things I listed, which is why it was last, but still, like, damn, you not good at nothing.

[C]

Bad taste in sweaters, too. I gotta say. This is a sweater era. And no drill. What that was about.

[B]

No drip. He had no drip. You're right about that. So working with other evangelists, Falwell proceeded to fan the flames of the controversy and open a broader inquiry into the growing list of moral and financial misdeeds within ptl. So he took it over and was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll take it over. Falwell. What a foreboding last name. I'm gonna make it fall. Good. So he went in and he got to digging. At a press conference in May 1987, Falwell said that the Bakers were no longer fit to lead PTL and accused Jim Baker of being secretly gay. Falwell was very homophobic. All right, Falwell, I was on your side until I guess none of you are gonna be good.

[C]

These clashes of the titans get confusing at times, don't they?

[B]

Like, Falwell has morals, but also he's homophobic. So not that many morals.

[C]

Sometimes nobody wins, right?

[B]

Everyone's bad. So the controversy put even more scrutiny on the couple and their expensive lifestyle, which included Heritage usa excessive amenities, their mansions and their air conditioned dog house.

[C]

Damn.

[B]

Air conditioned dog house. So the dogs are living better.

[C]

I will defend the air conditioned dog house. I want all humans to have air conditioning first. But if you're going to have to live in a hot climate, fine. Got an air conditioned dog house. If you're scamming money from believers, then that's one of probably the least annoying things you can spend it on. Do they have huskies?

[B]

Like, the huskies not supposed to be in the heat, right?

[C]

I don't know what they have, but, like, if it's for the comfort of dogs, then I am for it.

[B]

Y' all got sleigh dogs. Like, you know, that's the one thing.

[C]

Heritage USA is missing, is to go get around, buy dog sled like Jesus would have if he could.

[B]

But, you know, Jesus had a bobsled. Did he say that? He did? I didn't read that part of the.

[C]

Bible, but I finished early, too.

[B]

You finished early? Like, no. There's so much Bible left. The pages are very thin.

[C]

There's so much good stuff left.

[B]

The pages are very thin. Like, why is the Bible not thicker? It's not the power. It's like. It's like see through. If you, like, open the page, it's like, very thin. So Jerry Falwell zooming down the Heritage USA water slide in a suit celebrating the baker ousted. So we have a.

[C]

We have a photo that's such an amazing picture.

[B]

So this is Jerry. Jerry came in. He's the homophobe who decided he was gonna be cleaning up the act of ptl. And for some reason, he's fully in a suit, like a full suit, sliding down a water slide. Is this a baptism? Well, good question.

[C]

I feel like this is the biggest depression mood I've ever seen. But that can't be what he's going for because I don't think think you're allowed to acknowledge the existence of depression if you're Jerry Falwell.

[B]

Right?

[C]

But sometimes I feel like going down a water slide in all my clothes. I'll say that. Take me to a dying water park and let me go down in my clothes. Thank you.

[B]

I don't know what he thought he was giving, but it's very strange. So it was also revealed that the ministry had raised more than double the money needed for a new hotel called Heritage Towers. The hotel had not been completed, and yet more money was being solicited. So the building fund donated money has also been diverted to other Things including high salaries and generous bonuses for the Bakers and the PTL board members. In public, Tammy Faye stood by Jim. She stood beside him. She said, that's my man, and I'm a stand beside him. But in 1988, he was indicted on eight counts of mail fraud. I told y' all about mail fraud. Guys don't do crime in the mail. It's the pettiest way for the government to catch you. Like, Uncle Sam would be like, okay, you did do six murders, but we don't got enough DNA for that. But, bitch, you licked the stamp, so you're going down. Like, what? Don't do mail fraud, y'. All. If you gonna do it, don't do it in the mail. Cause that's how they gonna get you.

[C]

This is what mothers should tell their children. Just, like, don't chew the gum you find under the tables. And don't do mail fraud. And don't pull girls hair.

[B]

These are all just pillars of life, things we should all know, okay? If you need to deliver something, go door to door, get on foot, get a bite, get a car, take a taxi from work and charge your job $1,500. But don't do mail fraud. So he was indicted on eight counts of mail fraud, 15 counts of wire fraud, and one count of conspiracy. He was sentenced to 45 years in federal prison, which was later reduced to eight. Damn. That's a real reduction. Who did you pay off, Jen?

[C]

Oh, so many people, right?

[B]

Tammy Faye was not indicted. They let her go. So here's the aftermath, guys. We're getting to the end of. Three years later, Tammy Faye initiated her divorce, stating how cruel it would have been for me to have waited until he walked through those prison doors, happy and filled with dreams and plans for Jimmy and Tammy. Huh? So that's her quote. I'm trying to read it one more time for y'. All. She said how cruel it would have been for me to have waited until he walked through those prison doors, happy and filled with dreams and plans for Jimmy and Tammy. So. So he was already in jail, and she was like, okay, well, I'm gonna file for divorce. I don't get it, sis. Like, so you just waited till he was marinated in jail a little bit.

[C]

And then you're like, that's an amazing way to try and put a positive spin on divorcing someone in the middle of their being in prison. Like, I think you have to do what you gotta do, and sometimes you gotta divorce your spouse who's in prison.

[B]

But so Is she saying what?

[C]

Doesn't mean that's the best outcome. Yeah, she's saying, like, it would have been worse if I divorced him as soon as he got out. Because then he would be thinking that a bright future was ahead, but I would be taking it away. And it's. I just think that probably divorcing someone mid prison has to be the worst time to divorce them. And that's okay.

[B]

Yeah. Like, definitely get your divorce on, sis. Like, definitely do it. But you're trying to reframe it. Like, okay, but what if I had divorced him when he left prison? Then he would be sad because he, he would have been right, you know, like, he would have been carving the days into the wall, you know, waiting for.

[C]

So you can see that actually this was the best. This was the ideal time to get divorced.

[B]

Yeah. Like mid prison sentence, three years in.

[C]

Y' all see, but you're most hopeless. That's the best.

[B]

I was like, what? So a year after Tammy Fay married Ro Messinger, who helped build much of Heritage usa, so now she done married somebody else that she was probably seeing around the church, you know, like, they would be looking at each other's eyes as they, like, opened up all the offering envelopes, I imagine.

[C]

So I guess, like from across the.

[B]

Water park, he would hand her like a wafer when they were having communion. He would hold on a little too long, leave their fingertips would touch, you know, like. So now she'd have married somebody to church, so. However, in 1994, Rose was convicted of bankruptcy fraud and served 27 months in prison. Damn. All your booze going to jail, Tammy.

[C]

Yeah, she's got a type.

[B]

And it's convicted criminal. And also, like Tammy, you were very close to these crimes, sis. So are you making these men do the dead? Because I feel like, yeah, I think.

[C]

We all know who's. Who's passing down the orders.

[B]

And it's God, Tammy. It's giving drama always follows me. It's giving convictions. Just follow me. Like, everybody I love goes to jail.

[C]

They just love Jesus so much that they just go right to jail.

[B]

Right. I'm gonna need you not to have.

[C]

That's too much loving Jesus, if that's how you're doing it.

[B]

She's like, oh, boo, when is your indictment? No, I got an outfit already. Like, what? How often are you going to court in support. Curious. So Tammy Faye remained married to Messener until her death in 2007 at age 65 following an 11 year battle with colon cancer. Paroled in 1994, Jim returned to Christian Broadcasting in 2003. No, he didn't come back from jail. It was like, first day out, like, I'm going back to Christian broadcasting.

[C]

I'm already divorced. So it's time to get back on tv. Don't have to worry about getting divorced. Worked out great.

[B]

He got on TV and said, they tried to kill your favorite bitch. Everybody open to the Book of John. What? Wow. They was like, remember when Jesus was in that tomb for three days? That's basically what they did to me. And now I'm out. Like, what? This is okay? And they let you do this? Wow. So he had the Jim Baker show co hosting alongside his second wife, Lori, who he married in 1998. Guys, that is the story of Jim and Tammy Baker. They don't sound like great people. It's getting bad. But I do like the puppets aspect. That was.

[C]

You gotta have puppets.

[B]

You know, the natural involvement from puppets to fraud.

[C]

I think what I always. What I found interesting about this, learning the facts about it, is that I always heard it when I was growing up, up secondhand as like, well, it was never reported as an assault. It was reported as an affair, but it was like Jim Baker had an affair and then she brought him down and it's like, no, actually he committed fraud, a lot of it. And then happened to be unveiled for being accused of a sex crime at the same time. But it's like, no, like, guys don't get taken down for that in America. Don't be silly. It was the fraud.

[B]

To this day, they don't get taken down for it. Like, I will never defend Ghislaine Maxwell and this is in no way a defense of her, but I find it very odd that she is the one who's going away for all of this. Obviously, Jeffrey Epstein, the whole situation, like, maybe murder, maybe suicide, we don't know. The girls will never know. It's giving B613 though. But who did she traffic all of these women to? Y' all just gonna be like, oh, she going to jail for trafficking. Where did. Where did they stop? Where did they go?

[C]

Right?

[B]

Like, we're not gonna look into that. We're just like, nah.

[C]

Was that a two person conspiracy or were there more people? It seems like it would take more people.

[B]

Like, she took them to nowhere. She took them to no one. Like, she took them to someone. And that feels like also a part of the crime.

[C]

Feels right.

[B]

Feels like also crime. But no, we protect powerful men. And that's why, you know, Tammy's gone and. And Jim got back on TV and got a new wife. Like, that's trash.

[C]

And I just was selling fake Covid cures or fake Covid defense. I mean, that's like, who isn't at this point in time? But yeah, that is really. There's something very telling about the fact that he just, like, bounced right back. He's just doing what he did before. It's fine.

[B]

Can't keep a good man down or a bad one. Just can't keep a man down.

[C]

You cannot. Try as you might.

[B]

Try as you might. He had a 45 year jail sentence and somehow it became eight.

[C]

Like, that became, I'm on TV again.

[B]

Right. And then they just welcomed him back and they're like, oh, he had an affair. No, that's not actually what happened. Like, that's a strong reband. That's a real pivot. That's not what happened. It's time for scammer of the week. This is where we highlight a charlatan. Maybe we love him, maybe we hate him like Jim and Tammy. Who knows? So today we're talking about. We're keeping it on theme here. We're keeping it on brand. So the discovery of a plumber made this past December in a wall behind a toilet has people questioning if Joel Osteen's megachurch Lakewood Church. Come on, Texas. Has been involved in fraud. The plumber, Justin Cauley, was removing a toilet at Austin's Texas church when he discovered about 500 envelopes filled with money in the wall. No, the amount of money. Money was not disclosed. So we still don't know how much money it was. And Joel Austin is also, you know, a TV pastor who's out here with the whips and the drips, you know, suits always tailored, cars always custom for Jesus. And I'll never forget, and I've talked about this on the podcast before, there was a hurricane in Houston and they were like, hey, Joel, can you open the doors up to your church because the girls are in need. And he was like, o, no.

[C]

No room at the end. So sorry.

[B]

Bye.

[C]

Bye.

[B]

God actually had told me he don't want y' all to be up in here. Yeah, neither.

[C]

God says so many conflicting things. It's interesting.

[B]

He said, help yourself. He said, God said, you gotta pick us up about your own bootstraps. I don't think God said that, Joel. No, he did.

[C]

There's a day's end by the airport and you're welcome to use it. It doesn't sound very godly to me, but that's what I heard.

[B]

God said, Motel 6 will leave the light on for you. So I don't know what y' all want me to do. Okay, like, trifling. Police believe these envelopes are related to a 2014 burglary where more than $600,000 in cash and checks were taken from the church's safe by an unknown person who's yet to be discovered since. So he, not him, doing a fake robbery on himself and then hiding the money in the church.

[C]

I mean, I'm not like, what do I know? But, boy, does that make sense if you have more money than you know what to do with and you don't want it to get taxed, Right?

[B]

And look, this is all. This is just what the facts are from these articles. Allegedly. Allegedly. I don't know what actually happened. Maybe God wants us to put money in our plumbing systems. That's not for me to say. Okay. They're like, you know, Joe spends a lot of time in the bathroom after we do tithes and offering. Like, he said he got ibs, but I don't know. His IBS only flare up when the cash come around, so I'm just confused. So back in 2014, the church released a statement saying the funds were fully insured, and we're working with the insurance company to restore the. The stolen funds to the church. Oh, the funds were insured. Cute. How convenient. The church was allowed to keep the discovered envelopes as they had been found on their property. The nonprofit organization Crime Stoppers gave Kali a check for $20,000 for alerting the church to his discovery, Part of the initial reward for information relating to the 2014 burglary as well. So I will say, Kali, I'm glad that Crime Stoppers gave you a coin, because if I was in there working on a pipe, and all of a sudden, I just see a lot of cash. That plumbing bag gonna get a little heavy. He left all of his tools in the bathroom, but his bag was full. You know, you can get new ones, right?

[C]

You have the best tools in the world now.

[B]

But also, Kali, you probably did the right thing, because anybody who's got money hidden behind a wall, that's not somebody you want to steal from. That's giving crime crime. It feels like there might be repercussions, like, real repercussions to you stealing from them. Like, I'm not gonna do that.

[C]

These characters, they don't play around. I feel like it feels not so different from mob movie world, where everyone is dressed as flashy as possible and there's kind of rules of etiquette, but everyone kind of agrees what they're in it for, right?

[B]

And instead of doing mob hits, they smiting people. Like, God told me to smite you. I'm like, you have a.45. That's a 9 millimeter with a laser pointer. Yeah, God told me how to smite you. No, this is murder.

[C]

It's a smite master deluxe. And yeah, here we go.

[B]

No, God is just using me through this gun. I am a vessel. I'm a vessel for your murder. No, I'm just. You gonna meet him. That's all. You just about to do a little meet and greet with Jesus.

[C]

They call me the angel maker.

[B]

Look, God is up there signing autographs every day. And you first in line like, no. Oh, God.

[C]

This is the gangster movie we need. This is what we need.

[B]

We do. But, Sarah, thank you so much for being on the show. We always ask on this podcast, where do you want people to find you? Anything you want to. To see? Any social medias? It could be whatever.

[C]

Yeah, Please find me at you're wrongabout and are good. Those are on Twitter. Are goodpod and you're wrongabout. And that's definitely enough places.

[B]

Enjoy those. I love it. That's definitely enough places, guys. As always, if you want to see the photos and videos. Scam got his pod. On all platforms. I'll post it on Instagram for sure. If you want to find me. D I V A L A C Diva Lacey. On all platforms. All the first season by Carly is streaming right now. We're about to finish season two. I don't have an air date. I'll tell you when we do all of the Black lady schedule. Season two is streaming right now, if you want to see that. Also Kenan. I'm on Kenan fourth episode. And trust me, watch it because the twist is fun and it will be fun for you guys without me spoiling anything. All right, congregation, stay scheming. Scam Goddess stars and is hosted by me, Lacey Mosley, AKA Scam Goddess. It's produced by Judith Kargbo, engineered by Marina Paiz, and researched by Kalen Brandt. Stay scheming.

[D]

This has been a Team Coco production in association with earw.

[F]

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[B]

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[F]

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[D]

Adam Pally here. And I'm John Gabris. We're a couple actors and best friends who you may know as the host of the TV show 101 Places to Party before youe Die. Now we're bringing you a comedic look at health and wellness with our new show, Staying Alive. We'll have guests like our friend, actor Jerry O', Connell, ketamine therapist Dr. Stephen Radowitz, Paul Scheer, Ego Wodem, Gillian Bell, Dr. Dolittle. Staying alive with John Gabris and Adam Pali is out right now. Get them a week early and ad free with Sirius XM Podcast plus on Apple Podcasts.