Fraud Friday: The Famed Forger w/ Eliot Glazer

Summary

Scam Goddess Podcast Summary Episode: Fraud Friday: The Famed Forger w/ Eliot Glazer Release Date: June 6, 2025

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Introduction of Guest

In this episode of Scam Goddess, host Laci Mosley welcomes comedian and writer Eliot Glazer to discuss fraud, scams, and historical capers. Laci introduces Eliot with enthusiasm, highlighting his work on season two of iCarly and his comedic prowess.

Laci Mosley [02:31]: "I really am excited for today's episode because I have done his podcast. This man is so funny."

Discussion on Relationships and Divorce

Before delving into the main topic, Laci and Eliot engage in a light-hearted conversation about relationships and the often tumultuous nature of divorce. They humorously explore the concept of "kitchen supply divorce," emphasizing a preference for amicable separations over contentious battles.

Laci Mosley [03:40]: "You can't be marrying those sexy broke men. Sexy broke men know what they're doing."

Eliot Glazer [04:15]: "Divorce makes people ugly. When the coins are in play, honey."

Deep Dive: The Famed Forger - Lee Israel

The core of the episode focuses on Lee Israel, an author turned one of the greatest literary forgers. Laci narrates Lee's journey from a successful writer to a scam artist who fabricated hundreds of authentic-looking letters from famous historical figures.

Lee Israel's Forgeries

Lee Israel exploited her writing skills to create convincing forgeries of letters from notable personalities like Noel Coward and Dorothy Parker. She meticulously researched each figure, mimicking their tone and style to deceive autograph dealers and collectors.

Laci Mosley [26:18]: "Her skills as a biographer and a researcher gave her a near-perfect ability to mimic the tone of authors she was impersonating."

Eliot Glazer [37:32]: "That's a lot of work for that much."

Techniques and Deception

Lee's methods involved using period-appropriate typewriters, vintage paper, and authentic signatures to enhance the credibility of her forgeries. She even rented storage lockers to organize her tools, further demonstrating her commitment to the scam.

Laci Mosley [38:05]: "She really did her research. Like, she was like, what kind of typewriter would they have?"

Downfall and Legal Consequences

Lee's scheme began to unravel when discrepancies in her forged letters raised suspicions. An autograph dealer discovered inconsistencies that led to her exposure. Despite her elaborate efforts, Lee eventually faced legal repercussions, including house arrest and probation.

Laci Mosley [52:33]: "She pleaded guilty to one count of conspiracy to transport stolen property across state lines for profit in 1993 and was sentenced to six months house arrest with five years probation."

Eliot Glazer [56:51]: "It was a gas."

Scam of the Week: Corrupt Legal and Medical Fraud

In the Scam of the Week segment, Laci and Eliot highlight a significant scam involving corrupt doctors and lawyers who exploited unhoused individuals in a multi-million-dollar trip-and-fall scheme from 2013 to 2018.

Scheme Details

The fraudsters convinced desperate individuals to fake accidents, such as tripping and falling, to file lawsuits claiming negligence against property owners. These false claims resulted in over $20 million in lawsuit settlements.

Laci Mosley [58:15]: "The scheme generated over $20 million in lawsuit settlements from convincing desperate individuals who feigned to trip and fall."

Exploitation of Vulnerable Populations

The perpetrators primarily targeted unhoused and impoverished individuals, using their desperation to manipulate them into participating in the scam without offering any financial benefits in return.

Laci Mosley [62:14]: "You’re preying on people's desperation. These people don't have any money."

Legal Actions and Arrests

Authorities arrested several lawyers and doctors involved in the scam, charging them with multiple counts of conspiracy to commit wire fraud and mail fraud. The podcast emphasizes the ethical breaches and the exploitation of vulnerable populations.

Laci Mosley [58:36]: "Charges against the lawyers and doctors involved include multiple counts of conspiracy to commit wire fraud, mail fraud."

Conclusion

Laci and Eliot wrap up the episode by reflecting on the nature of scams and the importance of vigilance against fraudulent schemes. They encourage listeners to stay informed and cautious to avoid falling victim to such deceitful practices.

Laci Mosley [63:26]: "Stay scheming."

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Notable Quotes

• Laci Mosley [05:00]: "No, I have a lot of friends who've been divorced. Like, kind of a millennial thing."

• Eliot Glazer [07:17]: "I just want to feel the warmth and joy of speaking my love into reality in front of my friends."

• Laci Mosley [11:35]: "It's almost infallible. Log wives."

• Eliot Glazer [12:17]: "Tying that into religion is brilliantly, brilliantly manipulative."

• Laci Mosley [43:45]: "Blackmailers are honestly the boldest scammers because I would never blackmail anybody for anything."

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Insights and Conclusions

This episode of Scam Goddess provides a compelling exploration of historical and contemporary scams, blending humor with critical analysis. By dissecting Lee Israel's intricate forgery operations and the modern legal-medical fraud scheme, Laci and Eliot shed light on the complexities of fraud and its impact on individuals and communities. The discussions underscore the importance of ethical practices and the need for awareness to combat deceptive schemes effectively.

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Stay connected with Scam Goddess:

• Podcast: Scam Goddess Pod
• Social Media: @ScamGoddessPod
• Contact: [e-mail]

Produced by Judith Kargbo, engineered by Marina Paiz, and researched by Kalen Brandt.

Transcript

[Lacey Mosley]

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[Elliot Glaser]

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[Lacey Mosley]

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[Elliot Glaser]

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[Lacey Mosley]

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[Elliot Glaser]

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[Lacey Mosley]

Discount or combo. See it for details. What's Poppin, Congregation? It's your girl, Lacey Mosley, AKA Scam Goddess. Welcome to an episode of Fraud Fridays where we release older episodes from the Scam Goddess vault. That's right, Fraud Fridays is where we bring back your favorite episodes from behind the Paywall. Enjoy this episode from behind the Paywall and as always, stay scheming.

[Elliot Glaser]

Scams.

[Lacey Mosley]

Robbery and Frauds. Scam. Cause Robbery and Fraud. Scam Goddess. What's poppin, Congregation? It's your girl, Lacy Mosley, AKA Scam Goddess. And we're back for another edition of Scam Goddess. And what? Yes, very. What? Yes, Excited. Excited for today's because I really am. I have done his podcast. Okay, I this man is so funny. I recently have had the pleasure to realize that he will be writing words for me. He is an actor. He's an amazing comedian and writer and he's currently writing on season two of iCarly. So, guys, congregation, please welcome Elliot Glaser.

[Elliot Glaser]

Thank you.

[Lacey Mosley]

What is that podcast called? Why is this not on here?

[Elliot Glaser]

It's called you're making it worse.

[Lacey Mosley]

You're making it worse. It's a really funny podcast. I had a really great time with you guys so thank you. Yes, yes.

[Elliot Glaser]

Appreciate it. Yeah. No, you made it just fine.

[Lacey Mosley]

Come on. Just fine. Fine, fine, fine. Yeah. That's for the merry heads in the crowd. All right, Elliot, we probably gonna get sued. Mary. I hear her boots stomping towards my door right now.

[Elliot Glaser]

Is she. Does she have. Is she litigious?

[Lacey Mosley]

I don't know. Probably not as much. You know, one of her husbands scammed her and ran off with a lot of her clothes.

[Elliot Glaser]

Oh, my God. That's right. Oh, my God. Poor Mary.

[Lacey Mosley]

You can't be marrying those sexy broke man. Sexy broke men know what they doing. Just like sexy broke women. You can't do that.

[Elliot Glaser]

I love her so much.

[Lacey Mosley]

Y' all gotta be equally broke. If y' all both broke, that's great. We're talking split at the end of the day, like the hunt's ketchup bottle in the. In the. In the fridge. It's maybe mustard. You know, who's. Who's gonna get that. That one egg skillet? You know the skill. You can fry one egg. Like, who's gonna get that? You know, like, that's the kind of divorce I want. I don't want a divorce.

[Elliot Glaser]

Where it's like, you want kitchen supply divorce?

[Lacey Mosley]

Yes. Kitchen supply divorce. Nobody want no mansion divorce. Nobody want no damn. Who go get the boat? Like, who go get the baby? Half off the baby? No.

[Elliot Glaser]

That's really scary stuff, though. Like, I'm. I feel like everybody is, like, the child of divorce, you know, at least in, like, the 90s and on every. Like, divorce is so common, but I can't imagine that it's, like, any less painful for anybody, any couple to have to actually go through, like, break. Like, breakups destroy me. If a breakup destroys me. I can't even imagine the idea of, like, going through lawyers. Like, I don't. It just. It's wild.

[Lacey Mosley]

It's crazy to me, and it brings out the worst in people. Like, divorce makes people ugly. When the coins are in play, honey. The assets are getting hidden. You know, people are coming after everything you've ever made. Like, that's. That's a little too much for me. I will say the only divorce that I've been a part of. I'm not gonna get, like, too specific with this, because it ain't y' all business, but it was very chill. I just remember putting on some overalls, and then I just never saw Mr. Tim again. And that was cool.

[Elliot Glaser]

That's great. That's great. You weren't too. It wasn't too traumatic for you?

[Lacey Mosley]

No. No, I was like, bye, see y' all.

[Elliot Glaser]

Yeah, see, in my head, it would be, like, just a form of. I mean, I'm honestly, I'm just basing on everything I've seen on, like, the Good Wife and the Good Fight. So I'm just basing it on Christine Baranski. But. But, you know, it sounds. It just sounds torturous.

[Lacey Mosley]

No, I have a lot of friends who've been divorced. Like, kind of a millennial thing. Like, that first marriage hits a little too young.

[Elliot Glaser]

Yeah, yeah, that's right.

[Lacey Mosley]

You try to do what your mom and your daddy told you to do, then you're like, wait a damn minute. I don't want to be with your ass.

[Elliot Glaser]

I don't feel like I know too many divorced people, but maybe that's, like, also a straight. I think that's probably more of a straighter thing, you know, divorced. Whereas the gays aren't getting divorced. I don't know. I feel like gay divorce is. Is a thing, but it's not as prevalent as straight, obviously. Like, the. The.

[Lacey Mosley]

Cause I feel like after Prop 8 passed, the girls were probably getting a little too excited, and, you know, they overcorrected the court. Everybody was lit at the courthouse. You know, they went to the Abbey, then they went to the LA County Courthouse, you know, after, like, seven mimosas. And then, you know.

[Elliot Glaser]

Yes. Yeah, it definitely popped off. If you were looking to be committed, guys were like, what? No, no, no, no. Not interested.

[Lacey Mosley]

All right, okay. Well, that's true. Like, the culture's a little different when it comes to commitment, for sure. Honestly, better. Like.

[Elliot Glaser]

But I'm all about it. I'm all about domesticating and, you know.

[Lacey Mosley]

Oh, are you?

[Elliot Glaser]

I am, yes. I very much want that. Yes. Yes.

[Lacey Mosley]

You trying to. You trying to be wife. You try to be a kept man. You try to be husband.

[Elliot Glaser]

Absolutely.

[Lacey Mosley]

You trying to get the government involved in your love life.

[Elliot Glaser]

That's right. I just want the paper.

[Lacey Mosley]

Right. That's the thing.

[Elliot Glaser]

I just want to certify.

[Lacey Mosley]

I. And honestly, I don't really fuck with the government, so marriage is becoming less and less appealing. I'm like, so now we've been boning a lot, and now we're gonna get the government involved. I feel like.

[Elliot Glaser]

I get. I get that argument. I really do. I get that argument, and I understand that the part of me that wants. That craves, like, domesticated marriage is, like, steeped in, like, pilgrims and shit, you know, I'm like, I have shame, bitch.

[Lacey Mosley]

I love you. Call Uncle Sam.

[Elliot Glaser]

That's right. Uncle Sam.

[Lacey Mosley]

Call Uncle Sam. He gotta get involved. Cause we in love. I don't know. I feel like I just want the party, you know?

[Elliot Glaser]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I want the party, too, because you.

[Lacey Mosley]

Get to have a whole weekend. You get to make people fly out, get hotels, spend money on dresses, matches, swimsuits. They gotta buy your penis straws. They got, you know, everything. And you get to basically run them for. For a short period of time, you know, own them.

[Elliot Glaser]

Yeah, I just want something. I don't even care about the party. I just want to be like, I'm very, like. I want to feel. I'm very, like, deep about it. I want to feel the warmth and joy of, like, speaking my love into reality in front of my friends. And, like, it's very romantic to me, even though I feel like it's all steeped in. In creepy traditions and, like, deep, deep, deep white supremacy.

[Lacey Mosley]

Oh, yeah, for sure.

[Elliot Glaser]

Without a doubt.

[Lacey Mosley]

Owning a woman, as everything is.

[Elliot Glaser]

Yes, exactly.

[Lacey Mosley]

Boy, oh, boy. Okay, so, Elliot, I have to ask you, like, what's your relationship with scams? Have you ever been scammed? Like, have you run a scam? Do you hate scams? Do you like them? It could literally be anything.

[Elliot Glaser]

I'm not. I haven't been a scammer myself, but this might be pretty basic. But I am interested in the MLMs of it all. I think MLMs are fascinating. And my favorite scam in thinking about it for the podcast was the Psychic Friends Network. I don't know if you. It was like, Dionne Warwick.

[Lacey Mosley]

Oh, Lord, don't bring sis Dion of here. Listen, me and her niece follow each other now, child.

[Elliot Glaser]

Oh, Lord.

[Lacey Mosley]

Miss Dionne shout out to Dion. She still gets shit for that. And she be coming back. Yes. Dion's very active on Twitter.

[Elliot Glaser]

Oh, I love her on Twitter.

[Lacey Mosley]

I feel bad for saying Dion, Ms. Dion. I can't do that to my auntie. Respect.

[Elliot Glaser]

It's fair. You gotta be the stranger.

[Lacey Mosley]

But, okay, so tell me about that. Like, why does that intrigue you?

[Elliot Glaser]

I just think it's, like, what a wild moment. I mean, between, like, the Psychic Friends Network and then also the, like, televangelists of that era, the scammers, like Jim Baker, Tammy Baker, like, the televangelists who got, like, the connection between Dionne Warwick and, like, psychics and psychic friends and also, like, these televangelists getting you to send money their way. Like, all of it is so odd to me. And like, Miracle Spring one. That's right. It just seems like such a clear scam. And I can't believe so many people fell for it.

[Lacey Mosley]

Well, I think that in our country, because we know the government is just gonna. Us. And we know that, you know, there's really no safety net. We're all on the tightrope, and at the bottom, it's just flames. There's no net. I think that people really rely on hope or, like, having some kind of feeling of positivity when all the. Because the math ain't never math in America, ever.

[Elliot Glaser]

You're right.

[Lacey Mosley]

You know, so at a certain point, you gotta just be like, I don't know, magic Jesus Christ. That's right.

[Elliot Glaser]

That's. That's the. Literally, like. That's how my therapist has put it. He said, like, you know, the idea of, like, faith and religion and people relying on it, it's a way to make sense of life. And, like, if you don't have that, then you can. You could. If you don't have that or you don't have the ability to sit with that, then all you have is hopelessness.

[Lacey Mosley]

And that's harder to sit with.

[Elliot Glaser]

And that's harder to sit with.

[Lacey Mosley]

I am a Christian. I. You know, my mother would drag me if I didn't say something about me just saying, Jesus and his chocolates. But, you know, he could put them shits on and come back, you know, it's like, it's time, girl. Do you see what's happening? Like, pull up, you know? But I think the reason that I'm really religious is because otherwise, where is the hope?

[Elliot Glaser]

Yes.

[Lacey Mosley]

You know, like, I don't necessarily believe everything in the Bible is factual. However, you know, how do you get up every morning and get your ass out of bed when life is just pointless, you know?

[Elliot Glaser]

Right. Yes.

[Lacey Mosley]

And it may not be religion. It might be, you know, Prozac, however. Prozac. But it might be Will Bruton. It might be, you know, whatever the girls need for you. It might be running. It might be, you know, doing something that gives you hope and a sense of purpose, whatever that is. So.

[Elliot Glaser]

But I think there's a difference between, like, having faith and using religion as a way to, like, give a, like, course. Give your life a course and a trajectory. But then you look at people like Jim Tammy Baker, and. And it's like the idea of mixing. Using religion as a way to just take money from people is so. So deeply dark and the darkest of scams.

[Lacey Mosley]

But it's also brilliant because.

[Elliot Glaser]

Brilliant, yes.

[Lacey Mosley]

It's almost infallible. Log wives. Because, you know, everyone hopes to be In a financial situation where they don't have to worry about where the next meal is coming from, where rent is coming from. So if you see people who are steeped in religion and they become rich, that almost becomes life affirming of, like, if I live my life for God, maybe I'm gonna have coins like Tammy and them too.

[Elliot Glaser]

Yes, yes. You know, I think the idea is, like, I think everybody, especially in America, thinks that they're, like, almost like, it's. It's. It's almost trumpy the idea that, like, just like, him or just like the bakers or something, they're. You're on the precipice of being super wealthy. And, like, tying that into religion is brilliantly, brilliantly manipulative.

[Lacey Mosley]

Who is that Houston megachurch white guy, Joe Austin. Joel Osteen, perfect example. Man's got mansions on mansions. Man is dripped down. Drip too hard. Okay, swag. Okay. Ragu. Swagu. And, you know, people follow him because they believe. Like, oh, this man must be brilliant. Like, look at what he's done with the. Just the help of God. God and all of our coins. But then when, you know, they had those hurricanes in Houston and they had those floods, he closed the doors of his church when people were like, people could be housed in here. They could be refuge. That's a fundamental of religion is, like, it's supposed to be about charity. That's the reason that churches don't pay taxes. Even though I'm like, sis, what are y' all giving back? Like, put it on the ledger. I went to a great church that we definitely gave back. My pastor wrote a recommendation letter for me for college. Mind you, our congregation was like, thousands of people. Like, he was really like, shout out to Reverend Joshua Shiloh, missionary. But, like, that's not every pastor. Like, when he was supposed to open the doors, he closed them.

[Elliot Glaser]

It was like, yeah. I mean, that's the height of hypocrisy.

[Lacey Mosley]

It's like, here's the church, here's the steeple. Joel was like, no people.

[Elliot Glaser]

I just think there's, like. I mean, I think there is a clear divide between people who are. Who practice religion, like your pastor. Like, people who are in it for the right reasons, and then the people who can use it and manipulate it against their own followers. Like, that is the part that's just like, Jimmy Swaggart or, like, I don't know, Jerry Falwell or there's. I forget the name.

[Lacey Mosley]

You know, a lot of the girls.

[Elliot Glaser]

You know, I love them. I love them.

[Lacey Mosley]

Names.

[Elliot Glaser]

Okay, well, there's one of them who likes. Who's famous for, like, not just using mis. Misappropriating like, the finances, but actually bragging about how, like, Jesus gave him his private jet and, like, people continue to give him money.

[Lacey Mosley]

It's like, I don't know if Jesus gave. I think it was us. We just tithed, right? We sent offerings. I don't know if that was you. I think it was us.

[Elliot Glaser]

But that's to your point. But that. To your point, like, it's like people giving him money because he's, like, proven that there's wealth is like a. It's just a very American thing to think that if you follow, you're going to get the same thing, right?

[Lacey Mosley]

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[Elliot Glaser]

Okay, I'll give you the name Oliver.

[Lacey Mosley]

Oliver. May I have some more pork? It just takes me right to Oliver Twist. So, guys, so Oliver says, love the show. Oh, some nice stuff. I'm reading it, but I don't ever read it on the show. I don't know why. I just like. It's nice for me, though. I like to read what y' all say. So it says, I just wanted to share an interesting scam that happened at an antique mall on the West Coast. The mall is a large building where antique dealers can rent or buy a space in which to sell items. And I'm one of the dealers there. Some years ago, there was a guy who sold vintage porcelain and metal signs as well as car memorabilia. He had some very expensive signs, like a big gasoline station sign, Sinclair, Essos, etc. And other car signs like Cadillac, Hudson, Ford, etc. These types of signs are highly collectible and people buy them like crazy, even though the prices are typically hundreds or thousands of dollars. He was selling a ton of old signs, or at least signs that appear to be authentic. However, the staff at the antiques mall started getting complaints from customers that the signs were identical to reproduction signs that are new but made to look vintage. I guess there was a subtle thing that I can't identify, but like there was a difference between the true antique sign and the one that were made to look old. The staff asked the dealer to write on his tags that these signs were reproductions and if he did not, they were going to kick him out of the space. This went on for months. The dealer insisted the signs were real and refused. When even presented with evidence, he eventually took the signs and left them all, never admitting that he was in the wrong. So she said she wanted to share this with the listeners because there's a quite a bit of scamming that goes on in the antique and collectibles world, and buyers should really Be careful to check out items at antique stores and carefully make sure that they're really old. Valuable pieces are not just some vintage look or reproduction item in China. Sometimes it's really hard to tell the difference. As a dealer myself, I never claim something is authentic unless I know that it is. Let the buyer beware.

[Elliot Glaser]

So.

[Lacey Mosley]

I'm of two minds here. One mind. Don't, you know, you shouldn't be trying to pass off, you know, you putting tea on it, you putting it in the oven, you. You, you know, putting a little dust on it, you know, to. To make it look old, but also like vintage. Collecting always kind of weirds me out as a black person because it's like, you want stuff from an olden time and those times for black people. Like, there's a joke that Quinton Brunson wrote on buzzfeed forever ago that was like, they're like a white person was like, if y' all could go back in time, like, where would you go? And she was like, the future, bitch. I'm black. Well, I won't. I don't want to go back to yesterday. It's bad.

[Elliot Glaser]

Like, right when people talk nostalgically about, like, the past or like the good old days, it's like, yeah, for you, it was. For you. It would have been good for you, not for anybody else.

[Lacey Mosley]

It's weird. It's like a clear indication that you have no awareness of anybody else' human experience but your own. Like, I don't want to see an old school water fountain that just reminds me of my people getting hoes or having to walk through the back. You know how many people probably got some vintage, like, colors only signs?

[Elliot Glaser]

And that's a. Well, that's a real. That's a real thing. Like those. That niche of like, creepy, weird, old, like, racist paraphernalia is so scary. I mean, I remember in college going to a friend's house and it was like upstate, and they were like normal people. Like, I thought like normal liberal people. And in like my friend's kitchen, I saw the. Like, I don't. It was like those dolls that. Those like, statues that were like blackface basically. You know, those that like, art style. And I was like, why do you have that in your home? It was so terrifying to me. And I wanted, you know, it was like, yikes. It just freaked me the fuck out. I'm like, what do you want that for?

[Lacey Mosley]

Like your ancestors, you're like, watch over me, racist. Keep my bridge. Like, I don't. It's just like the chances of you getting something that is old, that wasn't either stolen or owned by people who are super up is so rare.

[Elliot Glaser]

Yes.

[Lacey Mosley]

That's why I always thought the Antiques Roadshow was so interesting. It's like, oh, my grandmother had this in the 1800s. I'm like, can I show up to the 1800s and be like. Or to the Antique Roadshow and be like. Like, hi, I am also an antique. People own me and my family. Like, what? What?

[Elliot Glaser]

Yeah, it's a real. The nostalgia can get real creepy real quickly.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah. And look, if you like to collect old, like, live your life. Do you. I'm not passing no judgment, but for me, it just gets a little weird sometimes.

[Elliot Glaser]

What do you feel about, like. Like, not antiquing, but, like, what about, like, thrift. Thrift store clothes.

[Lacey Mosley]

See, that's different for me because it's. It's kind of eco friendly to thrifts rather than just purchasing new things all the time. You know, you mix and match. Yeah, I do thrift. I do love to thrift. I always say, go to the expensive neighborhoods and thrift because the girls are, you know, throwing out the better things there. Yes. So, you know, I. It's. That's what I'm saying. Like, I can't completely pass judgment. I don't know who owned, you know, the vintage Chanel espadrilles I found. I don't know, maybe a bad lady, you know, maybe a bad man, maybe a bad person, you know, but, you know, so there's, like. There's like, kind of like windows for all of that. So I'm definitely not passing judgment on it. I am like. Like this. I am curious also. Like, this woman, or, you know, I think she identifies as woman, but Oliver, as we've called her, she said they threatened him. They were like, we don't think your pieces are real. Like, can you least write that they're not? Or, da, da, da. Antiquing people must be real nice, because it sounds like y' all were like, you have to do this or leave. And he was like, no. And y' all like, ugh, fine. And they all back to your, you know, old china sets and just let him live for a little while.

[Elliot Glaser]

Yeah, I don't really. I don't know what that. Like, I don't really understand the joy of deducing how old something is.

[Lacey Mosley]

Like.

[Elliot Glaser]

Like, who cares? I mean, who care? Who cares?

[Lacey Mosley]

I.

[Elliot Glaser]

That maybe that's narcissistic, but I'm just. I don't really get it, I guess, unless you're like, hunting for treasure, you know, it's like, who. I don't know. I guess I get heirlooms, but. But other people's old stuff. I don't want it.

[Lacey Mosley]

Right. At least if it's your grannies, you're like, oh, this is Grandma or Great Grandma P. Pop, you know, like, okay, I get that it has some familial root, but you're just like, this was some old dude in Kansas, and now I got all his tin cups. Why? Why do you want that?

[Elliot Glaser]

I don't want that. I am also, like, very averse to, like, dust. I just. When I think of, like, vintage stuff and antiquing, I just think of dust and, like, sneezing and sinus infection, and I just. I, I'm not. I'm out. I'm out.

[Lacey Mosley]

You know, I, I, I. It's each his own. You know, if you like some old out there, we're not. We gonna. We're not gonna throw shade on your old collector. You like to collect. Oh, good for you. You know, you got, though, that.

[Elliot Glaser]

That is. To me, that's depressing. Fake. Old.

[Lacey Mosley]

I mean, is it fake if you don't know it's fake?

[Elliot Glaser]

I don't know. I'm thinking of stuff like, it's real to you.

[Lacey Mosley]

It's old to you.

[Elliot Glaser]

Yeah. I don't know if my mom, like. My mom has decent. No, she has good taste. But, like, there's. There's some stuff where I'm like, no, like, don't. Don't get something that, like, clearly is, you know, was made in a. In a factory. But they're trying to make it look like, rustic. I can't handle. That's very suburban. But, like, I just can't stomach that.

[Lacey Mosley]

I mean, I'm from Texas, so that's like, everything. Yeah, we love to make something rustic. We love to put some rust on some new shit and be like, like, you know, So, I mean, I get it, but, you know, whatever y' all, like, whatever you like. Okay. I know TI Ain't gonna knock on the door because it's problematic. Up ass. Got too much legal stuff going on. So my favorite segment, Historic Hoodwinks, where I am going to Regale Elliot with a famous con or caper. We're gonna get his opinions all throughout. Maybe we like the guy. Maybe we hate him. We don't know yet. Maybe it's group criminals and, you know, it's cute. A little boy band of miscreants. We don't know. So Lee Israel was an author turned One of the greatest literary foragers of our time. So we're already talking about foraging and we're already talking about fake. So why not continue needing a change of career? She fabricated hundreds of fake letters. Okay, so this is that movie that Melissa Cartman. Yes, and honestly, a little boring.

[Elliot Glaser]

I didn't watch it. I saw the preview or the trailer and was like, this looks boring.

[Lacey Mosley]

It was like, oh, she writing letters. Oh, I want you to write these letters. Oh, a thrill like fake letters. Oh, and people want these fake letters. Why are y' all in people business? What you want? They let they not talking to you. They don't address to you. They're not for you. Why are you buying these letters?

[Elliot Glaser]

Oh, what a way. I mean, truly. Like, what a dusty waste.

[Lacey Mosley]

And that's why I love this, because I'm like, yes, girl, you better like rob the nosy people who want other people's letters. Okay. Postage was never assigned to you. Okay, so she fabricated hundreds of fake letters from famous figures of the past and for years evaded even the most scrupulous dealers. Her memoir, can you ever forgive me question mark, Became the source of the inspiration in 2018 film that was with Melissa McCarthy. So about Lee. Lee was born in a Jewish family in 1939 in Brooklyn. She graduated with a bachelor's degree from Brooklyn College in 1961. Lee found some success. Okay, this is Lee. Okay, Lee.

[Elliot Glaser]

Oh, okay.

[Lacey Mosley]

She's this polka dot shirt. This like. Her hands look very tired from foraging. Like knuckles swollen, like digits are giving foragery. She been writing all her life.

[Elliot Glaser]

Spindly fingers, right?

[Lacey Mosley]

Like she gotta work out. Them hands are strong. Cause she been writing these letters. So Lee found some success as a freelance writer in the 60s and 70s, working for publications as the New York Times and Soap Opera Digest. What a different, very different. In 1967, she profiled Katharine Hepburn for Esquire shortly after the death of Spencer Tracy, Hepburn's great love. Lee later sold Hepburn's tear soaked letter about Tracy for $250. However, she found her greatest success writing biographies. Later in the 70s and 80s, she wrote about the lives of actresses Tallulah Bankhead and journalist Dorothy Killigan, and later of which made the New York Times bestseller list in 1980. However, her third book found much less success. So she was like, the girls aren't reading my books anymore. A little desperation to do something.

[Elliot Glaser]

Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

So in 1983, the publishing company Macmillan handed Lee in advance for an unauthorized biography. Tell all about cosmetics magnet estate Estee Lauder. I was about to say Estee Lauderay. So now she's about to do this for Estee Lauder. Lauder caught wind that Lee was writing the book and offered her money to drop it. Damn. Estee Lauder hiding.

[Elliot Glaser]

That's Paola.

[Lacey Mosley]

You know, maybe. Maybe she's born with it. Maybe Estee Lauder got murders, you know? What are y' all hiding? I'm confused. Like, that's quick. They got wind and somebody was writing a book, and instead of being like, oh, they gonna write a book about us, up our, you know, viewership, up our visibility, they were like, please stop right now.

[Elliot Glaser]

Yeah. And they pay. And if they offered her money, like, that's serious.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah. They were like, please, look, we gonna. We'll give you this money or we will have to kill you like all the other people we killed before. That we cannot have in the press.

[Elliot Glaser]

Oh, my God. And she got an advance for it too. I mean, that means it was maybe. I guess it was gonna, like, get some dirt on Estee Lauder, I would guess.

[Lacey Mosley]

So Estee Lauder wrote their own memoir before hers could get out, which is also a way that they interfered. Cause they were like, oh, this is the one from us. Wow. So who y' all gonna believe? Her, that random lady or us?

[Elliot Glaser]

Right?

[Lacey Mosley]

Here's a memoir with a little bit of tea. And I guess, you know, who's gonna buy two Estee Lauder memoirs? I watched both Fyre Fest documentaries, but I don't know if I'm buying two Estee Lauder memoirs.

[Elliot Glaser]

Yeah, who? I mean, I didn't know anybody would care in the first place, but maybe. Maybe she's, you know, maybe she is born with it. I don't know. Who's to say?

[Lacey Mosley]

You know, that's Maybelline. They're like, you better not write shit about us.

[Elliot Glaser]

I know.

[Lacey Mosley]

So as a result, Lee was forced. So she rushed. It didn't work out. A lot of interference in her memoir. Can you ever forgive me? Lee said, I had never known anything but up in my career. I regarded with pity and disdain the short sleeved wage slaves who worked in offices. I had no reason to believe life would get anything but better.

[Elliot Glaser]

She just thought that about life.

[Lacey Mosley]

That is the most privileged. I know.

[Elliot Glaser]

I'm like, okay.

[Lacey Mosley]

She said I was born winning, and I would look out at the pores on the street. And I was like, that could never be me. Are we supposed to, like, feel sad for you?

[Elliot Glaser]

Yeah. I'm like, okay. And. And.

[Lacey Mosley]

What is. I just don't know what that was supposed to Evoke what that sentence was supposed to evoke out of me.

[Elliot Glaser]

I'm guessing she wanted you. She wants to, like, get, you know, sort of get you to empathize with the fact that she's about to pull a scam because she was bored with life.

[Lacey Mosley]

Wow. And look, Elliot can't even see these notes. And literally the next sentences. The failure, according to Lee, was the catalyst that led her to become a mastermind of criminal forgery.

[Elliot Glaser]

Oh, wow. That's what did it. I wonder if she still got that. That. That advance, though. I'm fascinated about, like, a book advance. Like, how much do you think one gets for a big book like that? Especially when it fails? Like, was it even worth it? She. Was she unhirable?

[Lacey Mosley]

Like, I don't know. I feel like, you know, publishing companies, like, she had had some good books behind her and then obviously a flop, and then this one was supposed to pop. And as they got in the way of that, she probably should have just negotiated a deal with them. They're a big company. I would be like, okay, y' all at least got a quadruple this advance or something.

[Elliot Glaser]

Yeah, I mean, clearly she wasn't like some sort of, you know, she wasn't following, like, journalistic ethics if her next move was to. If she was refused the bribe, but her next move was to. To full pull a full blown. Full blown scam.

[Lacey Mosley]

Right. She said, look, I refuse the bribe. Then I started robbing people. You know, you see how it works, right? Y' all follow me. Y' all tracking. Okay, so the highlight of Lee Israel's career after Estelle autobiography failure. Lee's life collapsed around her. She already had the reputation of being an alcoholic and difficult to deal with, and recent events certainly didn't help. So I will say that I don't like alcoholic and difficult to deal with being in the same sentence. Like, there's a lot of very nice alcoholics, a lot of people who are wonderful people who are in recover. So that's from the article. But they were just saying, like, she was hard to deal with. So she went on welfare, and sue became surrounded by bills, and she had a sick cat, Doris. See, and she was unable to even pay a $40 vet bill. That's the thing. Like, I love my cat, but, like, what animals getting sick, That's. That's dark.

[Elliot Glaser]

It is expensive. It's expensive.

[Lacey Mosley]

Like, shout out to y' all, taking care of y' all animals, getting them a new hip, you know, getting them hard, getting them a new paw.

[Elliot Glaser]

It's hard That's.

[Lacey Mosley]

And I know it's because you love them and, you know, but when I have donated to friends who, you know, were comedians and, like, were like, I gotta pay the surgery bill for my dog. And I completely understand, because I'm like, Like, sheesh.

[Elliot Glaser]

I mean, we love them, we love.

[Lacey Mosley]

Our fur babies, but it's not a real baby. So then you're like, damn, I'm over here shelling out of these medical bills.

[Elliot Glaser]

I know it's hard. That's why. I mean, that's. That's why you have to choose. I think you have to choose carefully. And I will tell you that after 11 years with my wonderful dog Atticus, who passed in 2020.

[Lacey Mosley]

Oh, I'm sorry.

[Elliot Glaser]

No, it's okay. But the bills really added up and I had to think long and hard before I got another one. And that's why I got insurance. And that's why I got insurance, honestly, because it just. Yeah, yeah, but there's not. I wouldn't have refused. That's the pro. That's the thing. I don't know what I would have refused to pay for Atticus's health unless it was like, you know, terminal or something. That was unnecessary. But it's hard to say no. It's hard to say no to that.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah, like, if you wanted a BBL or something, like, you didn't have to do that. But.

[Elliot Glaser]

Right, right, right, right.

[Lacey Mosley]

But, but, but in all seriousness, like, y' all be nice to your vets. I have a friend who's a vet. They have a very high suicide rate. Like, if. If your pet dies, it's. It's most likely not the vet's fault. Like, you can't go in there and rail on the vet. Okay. They doing the best they can to save your. Your fur babies. Okay. Just a psa, the more you know. So back to lee. But in 1990, several years after the Lauder fiasco, Lee found a solution of sorts. Lee told NPR in a two days 2008 interview, it happened incrementally, like most of most evil things do. I don't know if I'll call faking letters evil, but I don't think it's evil.

[Elliot Glaser]

Okay.

[Lacey Mosley]

I went to the library. Oh, the beginning of crime, the library. And I was given a bunch of letters which I should not have been given in a non secure area. Okay. Yeah, because they're letters. Like, whoever's working at the library ain't making enough money to give a. About you looking at some letters. They're like, here you go. Go off like I'm going back to my, you know, desk to tell people to shh and get coffee. So she took a few Fanny Br. Bryce letters, stuck them in her sneakers and sold them to a bookstore called Agra C on the east side of Manhattan. Quick context on Fanny Bryce. She was a 1920s and 30s American comedian. Illustrated song model. What is an illustrated song model? I don't know what that.

[Elliot Glaser]

Illustrated song model.

[Lacey Mosley]

That's three words that I've never seen in a sentence together.

[Elliot Glaser]

Yeah, those don't work.

[Lacey Mosley]

She drew songs. She was a model for songs. They drew her while they played the bops.

[Elliot Glaser]

Is song capitalized.

[Lacey Mosley]

And so she was also a singer, theater and film actress who made stage, radio and film appearances. She was also the subject of the musical Funny Girl.

[Elliot Glaser]

Funny Girl. Yeah, that's right. That's Barbara Choice.

[Lacey Mosley]

Wow. You know.

[Elliot Glaser]

I haven't seen it.

[Lacey Mosley]

It's so sexless. Where they're like, damn, this actually is funny. Let's write a musical about her. Because she the only one. You know, women aren't funny. We gotta write musical about her. It's undeniable. So she sold letters for $40 a piece. For the first time in a long time. I had some jingle in my jeans. She said, okay, well, I'll write there. Now I think you want a little more than a jingle. I think you need a rustle of paper, but okay, jingle, we'll take it. Lee felt no guilt about the theft as the letters were from the realm of the dead. Doris and I were alive. True. After she sold a few letters, she discovered that she could increase their value if she improved the content. So she pulled out an old typewriter. And after the yours, Fanny Brice signature of a couple letters, she added a few sentences as a P.S. so she first started with just like seasoning the letter so it was still a real letter. But she went and she, she put some Larry's on it, you know, she dipped it in some mumbo sauce and, and gave it to the girl, us. So I want like, I want to know what these PS's are. It's like P S. I am very horny. Like, what's this that's making the letter so spicy?

[Elliot Glaser]

Yeah, right. Still funny.

[Lacey Mosley]

P S. I had a eight some last night. It was fun. Like what? What is making the letter tastier, I wonder? So what was before a forty dollar letter she would sell for fifty to a hundred dollars a pop. After a time, Lee stopped selling letters. Realized she had the power and ability to just forge creations of her own. So then she was like, well, buying these BO letters and just seasoning. I'm gonna get out here, right, Mom?

[Elliot Glaser]

She's gonna make her own.

[Lacey Mosley]

Her skills as a biographer and a researcher gave her a near perfect ability to mimic the tone of authors that she was impersonating. Prominent figures of the past became fictionalized characters for her to mold on her typewriter. To add additional authenticity to her forgies, Lee purchased other secondhand typewriters, tore out vintage paper from the backs of period journals and libraries, and typed them on them. Them. And she scoured old publications for published letters from her subjects to mine. Idiosyncrasies and signatures.

[Elliot Glaser]

Wow. That. That's a full blown scam. Pulling out papers from books in libraries. Like, that's real. That's some real effort. He's pulling out papers from books in libraries.

[Lacey Mosley]

Oh. Ow. J up the whole Dewey decibel system.

[Elliot Glaser]

Oh, my God.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah. Get out pieces of paper. They're like, oh, do you want to take that one, Lee? You gonna rent that? Oh, no, no, no. I got everything I need.

[Elliot Glaser]

Also, like, by the way, go to an art supply store, get some paper. Get some, like, old paper, you know, like, you don't need to rip them out from the library. But I love that all her crime happens in library.

[Lacey Mosley]

If you're fixing the paper for acidity and stuff.

[Elliot Glaser]

Oh, yes.

[Lacey Mosley]

Then it's not gonna be as good as an old book. She's gotta go get the old shit.

[Elliot Glaser]

You're right, you're right, you're right.

[Lacey Mosley]

You know. Yeah. She could have poured some tea on it and put it in the oven, but it's not gonna, you know.

[Elliot Glaser]

Yeah. Is that the way to do it? You put tea on? Is that. That's a thing, right?

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah. I mean, if you were in seventh grade.

[Elliot Glaser]

Right, Right.

[Lacey Mosley]

But this, I'm like, you know, I think that was good. I. I like that. Change is always happening. But no matter what changes in five years, there's one thing that will stay the same. The price of your Internet. With the Xfinity five year price guarantee, you get five years of the most reliable WI fi with our best equipment included for a price that stays exactly the same. Restrictions apply. New residential customers only. Taxes and fees extra. And subject to change. Most reliable WI Fi based on Open Signal Awards USA Fixed Broadband Experience Report August 2024.

[Elliot Glaser]

Hi, Zoe Saldana. Welcome to T Mobile.

[Lacey Mosley]

Here's your new iPhone 16 Pro on us. Thanks. And here's my old phone to transfer. You don't need a trade in when you switch to T Mobile. We'll give you a new iPhone 16 Pro. Plus we'll help you pay off your.

[Elliot Glaser]

Old Phone up to 800 bucks and.

[Lacey Mosley]

You still get to keep it. There's always a trade in. Not right now. @ T Mobile. I feel like I have to give you something in return for karma. That's okay. I don't really have much in my purse. Oh, let's see. Hand sanitizer. It's lavender.

[Elliot Glaser]

I'm good. Seriously.

[Lacey Mosley]

Let me check this pocket. Oh, mints. Really, I'm fine. Oh, I have rain reasons. I'm a mom. Wait, wait one sec. I've got cupcakes in the car.

[Elliot Glaser]

It's our best iPhone offer ever. Switch to T Mobile. Get a new iPhone 16 Pro with Apple Intelligence on us. No trade in needed. We'll even pay off your phone up to 800 bucks with 24 monthly bill credits.

[Lacey Mosley]

New in line, 100 plus a month.

[Elliot Glaser]

On experience beyond Finance Agreement 999.99 and.

[Lacey Mosley]

Qualifying ported for well qualified plus tax.

[Elliot Glaser]

And 10 connection charge payout via virtual prepaid funnel of 15 days credits and.

[Lacey Mosley]

And balance due if you pay off early or cancel CT mobile.com and fraud. So she ended up acquiring so many typewriters that she had to rent out a storage locker to store them as well as label them with names such as Humphrey Bogart and Noel Coward as a reminder of which to use. So she really did her research. Like she was like, what kind of typewriter would they have? What would the J's look like? What would the L's look like? Does it scroll all the way when you hit it? Like she. She really. I mean, she was working hard for 40, $50. Yeah, sis, you need to upgrade.

[Elliot Glaser]

That is a lot of work for that much. Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

So when she went to Byers, Lee touted a story about a dead cousin who left her a large number of letters. The autograph dealers were spectacularly incurious. So the content of the letters was interesting enough to have considerable value, but mundane enough not to attract the attention attention of suspicious scholars. Over a period of three years, Lee forged over 400 letters.

[Elliot Glaser]

Wow.

[Lacey Mosley]

So also tying back thematically in this episode to the beginning too much homosexuality caused problems.

[Elliot Glaser]

Jesus. That's where it all starts. That's where it all starts.

[Lacey Mosley]

When does it not? So Lee's Noel Coward letters were some of her most popular and convincing work. But these were the letters that began the beginning to the end. No Coward contacts. No. Coward was a gay English playwright, composer during director, actor and singer known for his wit and Flamboyance. And his plays included Private Lives and Blythe Spirit, which is one of my favorite plays. I played Madame McCarty.

[Elliot Glaser]

Ooh.

[Lacey Mosley]

In competition theater in Texas.

[Elliot Glaser]

Love it.

[Lacey Mosley]

And I won best actress. Okay. So you know I love me some. I see Angel Lansbury. Shout out. Wow. I guess it's my theater nerds coming out. This has never happened. Happen. So Lee said it was a very good coward. It was better coward than coward. Coward didn't have to be coward. I had to be coward and a half. That's what she said. Several of Lee's letters were even published. And so you call yourself better than all cowardices. Nobody else said this. Well, if she says it, it's giving Kanye. It's like, I'm the greatest. You know, I had to be greater than the great. Okay, so several of these letters were even published in the Letters of Noel Coward in Tours in 2007, over a decade after Lee was caught for her crime. So they were like, these are still cute. Like, we'll publish them. However, she became a little too bold with cowards nods to homosexuality and the casualness of the language he used during the time period when homosexuality was a jailable offense. Okay, so Leigh herself is also a queer woman. She's gay, so she may have dipped a toe a little too deep.

[Elliot Glaser]

Just ask a friend. Lee. Ask a friend.

[Lacey Mosley]

Hey, y' all, it's me. No coward. I saw a young gent at the pub. My ass pulsated. Like, wait, like, how far did you go? How far did you go?

[Elliot Glaser]

But she went. She went. She went there.

[Lacey Mosley]

So this put buyers on high alert. And soon after, a dealer found an acronistic seal on several Dorothy Parker letters that he bought from Lee. He contacted lee and demanded $5,000 in exchange for not testifying against her in front of a grand jury. So he's also a scammer. He was like, bitch, I know these letters are fake, but we could keep the. Like, we keep this on the low.

[Elliot Glaser]

Wow.

[Lacey Mosley]

For the. The low price of $5,000.

[Elliot Glaser]

Wow.

[Lacey Mosley]

And here's the thing about bribes. You can't ever let anybody bribe you, because once you start the bribe, when does the bribe end?

[Elliot Glaser]

Right. How? You can't guarantee that a secret lasts forever.

[Lacey Mosley]

Like, they might next time they eat another 5k, be like, hey, girl, it's me again, your briber. Hope you're having a good Tuesday.

[Elliot Glaser]

Picking up where we left off with bribes. Right.

[Lacey Mosley]

So, yeah, actually, my AC broke, and the heating and repair man said it's gonna be a smoot smooth 8000. I got H Vac.

[Elliot Glaser]

So, yeah, I don't think blackmail is, like, a clean beginning and end, you know, it's not finite.

[Lacey Mosley]

No.

[Elliot Glaser]

When does it end?

[Lacey Mosley]

And people who blackmail. Folks, here's the thing. The only way to do blackmail, in my opinion, is if you have a physical piece of evidence that you are willing to trade for the monetary amount. That way, both of y' all are at peace. There's no copies. All of this. That. However, I just think if you try to blackmail people, some people would be like, well, I guess I gotta kill you now. Like.

[Elliot Glaser]

But also, don't. But also, if you're blackmailing somebody with some sort of object that can in some way or form be replicated, then you never really know that yours is the only copy. And that's why I never buy that in, like. I never really buy that in, like, movies and stuff where it's like, this is. This is the. You promises. The last, only copy. Yes, I promise. Okay. The end.

[Lacey Mosley]

Thanks so much. That's it.

[Elliot Glaser]

No, that just can't work that way. It's forever. I'd be in fear for the rest of my life.

[Lacey Mosley]

Blackmailers are honestly the boldest scammers because I would never blackmail anybody for anything. Because my fear is they're gonna be like, well, all right. Get the A. Like, we gotta go do a murder. Like.

[Elliot Glaser]

Right, right.

[Lacey Mosley]

That's the only way to end blackmail.

[Elliot Glaser]

Yeah. To make you. To make you keep you quiet forever.

[Lacey Mosley]

Forever. Girl, have you sleeping. Snoozing with the catfish. Sleeping with the. With the goddamn crabs and lobsters.

[Elliot Glaser]

Blackmail is forever. It just is.

[Lacey Mosley]

Diamonds are forever. Blackmail is forever. Like, no, no, don't do it. So with such threats, Lee stopped fabricating fictional letters, though she did not end her 4G career. Okay, you got a pivot. Good scammer. She went back to stealing.

[Elliot Glaser]

Oh, my God. From what? Oh, my God. This woman in the library.

[Lacey Mosley]

So this time, institutions such as Yale, Harvard, Princeton, and the New York Public Library, she went in there and started ganking them, which was, like, the hottest spots, too.

[Elliot Glaser]

They got the best literary spots.

[Lacey Mosley]

They got the best loot.

[Elliot Glaser]

Yeah. Well, you think she would, like, fly under the radar? At least try.

[Lacey Mosley]

So she'd go in, examine letters, and figure out how to create the perfect forges of them. Then she'd go home, create her replica, and return to the. Replace the real letter with her fake. An old bartending acquaintance named Jack Hawk. Then fenced the letters for Lee. She later discovered Hawk was keeping more than his fair share. Another contributing factor to Lee eventually getting caught. Okay. Of course, Jack was keeping more than his fair share. What do you think this is? He's the middleman.

[Elliot Glaser]

Of course. That's right. Right.

[Lacey Mosley]

You met him in a bar, sis. You met somebody in a bar. Y' all have some whiskey needs. And you say, hey, do you want to help me do robbery? What do you think? If he said absolutely yes, he's gonna rob you. He's not your cousin. He's not the homie.

[Elliot Glaser]

Like, oh, my God.

[Lacey Mosley]

He's not your husband. We could be like, jack, what did you. What you bring home tonight?

[Elliot Glaser]

Like, oh, my God, it's true. Yeah. Oh, God. Wild.

[Lacey Mosley]

So still the scheme struggled on until David H. Lawrence Hurst, an author and. Or, excuse me, an autograph dealer in New York, discovered that an Ernest Hemingway letter he had been sold was actually a part of a Columbia University collection. So here's the thing about old stuff. You know, Tiffany diamond. Like, let's get, you know, all the things. All these collections are things that have been looted. And then you put it in a museum. You're like, look at what I stole. And I put it in a nice box, and it's got good lighting, and it's going to stay preserved. Y' all come in here and pay a nominal fee to take a picture next to the thing that I stacked soul cuz. Like, how could you own something that somebody else made? And they're gone.

[Elliot Glaser]

Yeah, well, why do you want that?

[Lacey Mosley]

Because you got good girls in to. To take a look at it. Look, I went and looked at Mona Lisa's old little ass, and I was like, this is it. This is it for real?

[Elliot Glaser]

Yeah. That was small. That is a smaller piece than you'd expect.

[Lacey Mosley]

It's small as hell and dusty. Okay.

[Elliot Glaser]

Yeah, it. Yeah, but that. Yeah, that's the thing about museums. It's like, there are museums that are really fun and thoughtful and. And, like, engaging in a different way and not even talking about, like, avant garde art or experimental art. It's just like, the way a museum lays. It can be laid out, and then there's just, like. There's just parts of the Natural History Museum in New York that are dusty. It's just dusty and old, and it's like, who cares?

[Lacey Mosley]

And so much of it is theft. They'd be like, this came from the tribes of. Give it back to the tribes. What you mean this came from. Y' all stole it. That's. That's the favorite scammer word of. Of old. You know, colonious thieves discovered. We discovered this in the hands of a brown person, and we yanked it away from them. Like, what are you talking about? Y' all didn't discover this? Like, like, and when does discovery end? I think I would be less upset with discovery if I could go next door to my neighbor's apartment and discover some of that. Like, when. When do we say discovery ends?

[Elliot Glaser]

I don't know if there's a point.

[Lacey Mosley]

Do I have to dig it up? Do they have to be dead? Do they have to be old? Can I go to the nursing home and discover, you know, your aunties pearls? Like, where. Where does it. When does discovery stop in theft end or, you know, theft?

[Elliot Glaser]

Things just show up somehow. They just show up, right?

[Lacey Mosley]

Like, I'll put your. I'll put your chanel bag in a glass box and keep it in good lighting. Can I discover it now? I would love to discover things Cheaper. Cheaper than buying. So from there, the FBI finally caught up to Lee and her associate and were able to uncover more of her forgeries. The F, the B, and the I were. Look, sometimes we have episodes where the FBI gets involved. Like our coupon episode that recently came out, and I'm like, FBI, Y' all don't got more important things to do?

[Elliot Glaser]

This. You're staking out libraries again. It all just goes back to libraries for me.

[Lacey Mosley]

You sticking out libraries, post offices, like, McDonald's with my coins, with my tax money, right? Like, y' all better be diffusing a bomb somewhere. What? We got too many people in the FBI. If y' all got enough agents to go out here, start looking at some paper, right?

[Elliot Glaser]

Going after her. Going after her.

[Lacey Mosley]

Like, what. What is this? How does this help anyone? Like, oh, you got paper that wasn't real. Oh, you got wine that was fake. Like the Rudy Kirk canal scam. Like, wine, paper, coupons. Why?

[Elliot Glaser]

Yeah, it's like. I mean, it's. What do they call it? White collar crimes?

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah.

[Elliot Glaser]

Is that a white collar crime?

[Lacey Mosley]

Yes. Defund the FBI. Y' all got too much money and too many resources. If this is what y' all doing with y' all goddamn time. I thought y' all was, like, olivia Pope is scammed. I thought y' all was supposed to be B613. I thought y' all supposed to be stopping global terrorism or something. Y' all over here looking at paper.

[Elliot Glaser]

It's a library.

[Lacey Mosley]

Y' all at the library. Like. Like, instead of getting a card at the city library, y' all flash the FBI badge. We here on official business. What? It's a library? Yeah. They got Too much time on their hand. I. What, y' all staking out Barnes and Noble? This is ghetto, though. So the FBI gets involved. They have to be in the eye. And they finally catch up to Lee and her associate. I guess they probably went to the bar down the street.

[Elliot Glaser]

Yeah, right.

[Lacey Mosley]

And they were able to uncover her forageries as well as return the real letters to their proper homes. Proper homes again, Another.

[Elliot Glaser]

More libraries.

[Lacey Mosley]

So she pleaded guilty to one count. Like, honestly, like, she rewrote the letter so it's not like I couldn't read what it said. Like, what else are you horny for? You think some dead skin cells of Noel Coward on it. Like, you don't rub it on your nipples. Like, what? If you could read the letter, you could read the letter. Who cares, right? It's like a textbook. You know how many things in the textbook are copied? Well, one are lies and also are copied from original documents. I've never touched the real Declaration of Independence, nor do I want to. Have I read the yes, because you had to. And I was never like, oh, wish I could rub myself on this. The real one. I want to see John Hancock in person.

[Elliot Glaser]

What cares?

[Lacey Mosley]

Like, what does that do for you? Yeah, Boring. So she pleaded guilty to one count of conspiracy to transport stolen property across state lines for profit in 1993 and was sentenced to six month house arrest with five years probation.

[Elliot Glaser]

You say? What'd you say? House arrest.

[Lacey Mosley]

Six months house arrest. Which I'm glad that they didn't. I'm house arrest still cost the city money, but I'm glad that they didn't and put her in jail because that costs us even more money. But also, like, what is this probation entailed? You have to do community service. Are you not allowed at libraries anymore? They got a picture of your face up, you know, at the New York.

[Elliot Glaser]

Even made money off the movie.

[Lacey Mosley]

She must have, because she sold the book. She wrote the book.

[Elliot Glaser]

Oh, okay.

[Lacey Mosley]

So she probably had to sell the rights.

[Elliot Glaser]

So she probably spent house arrest writing the book. That. So she only made money. Money.

[Lacey Mosley]

I love that for her. I hope that's what she did.

[Elliot Glaser]

Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

So in addition to the probation, Lee was also barred from many libraries. SIS can't get elaborate.

[Elliot Glaser]

Ultimate punishment.

[Lacey Mosley]

They said. Reading is fundamental, but not for you. You never go flip a page again. You're not gonna have the joy of smelling a book that's been in so many people's homes. You're never gonna feel that soft plastic on the outside of the book. That's keeping it intact. You'll never know these joys again. Can she go to Barnes and Nobles?

[Elliot Glaser]

Go to a bookstore?

[Lacey Mosley]

It's also the Internet. Is she banned on Kindle sources?

[Elliot Glaser]

Yeah, right.

[Lacey Mosley]

She can't buy a Kindle.

[Elliot Glaser]

She can't use the Nook.

[Lacey Mosley]

It was our prime. Was like, log off. You have none of these books. So after a sentencing, she went to work as a copy editor for Scholastic. So she still got jobs?

[Elliot Glaser]

Jobs, jobs. She still got jobs. Wow.

[Lacey Mosley]

I mean, she's talented. She's obviously a very good writer and a good scammer. Right. And so in 2008, I'm sure scholastics isn't like, let's check into your history as a book thief. They don't give a. You know, they just trying to make that book fair coin. Did you ever go to a book fair? Did you have that in school?

[Elliot Glaser]

Yeah, I think we had.

[Lacey Mosley]

I loved the book fair. My mom would give me cash. I go in there, ball out on some Junie B. Jones, you know? Yeah, I loved a book fair by a ruler that I never mentioned by.

[Elliot Glaser]

Like, weren't those, like, thrown by the, like, Scholastic, Right? Like the book publisher? Yeah, those were fun.

[Lacey Mosley]

It was a scam. They were like, let. We'll give y' all cut. Let us set up in y' all school and get these books for these. These little babies. And I fell for it. Cause you also got to get out of class. And that was, like, the real allure of the book fair. We were like, oh, we get to skip class. I'd be in there looking at every book like, highlights. Don't mind if I do. I tried to stay out of class as long as possible. So, I mean, okay, so Lee wrote in her memoir, the forged letters were larky and fun and totally cool. They weren't cool, girl. They were probably fun for you, but none of this is cool. It's very boring.

[Elliot Glaser]

Not cool. No.

[Lacey Mosley]

I'm snoozing. I'm hitting snooze. I still consider the letters to be my best work. I was better writer as a forager than I'd ever been as a writer. Okay, so you were like a cover band for old people letters.

[Elliot Glaser]

You found her niche.

[Lacey Mosley]

Very specific niche, yes. In 2014, Lee Israel died of complications from melanoma, a cancer of plasma cells or. I'm sorry, that's myeloma. Excuse me. At age 75, her obituary, the lead FBI investigator on her case, Carl Burrell, called. Called Brilliant. Did she write her own joint? That was her final piece. She, like, wrote her own. She was like, Obituary. A bad queen of the typewriters. Like, I love it. And also, like, FBI, y' all was. Why are you reading her obituary?

[Elliot Glaser]

Yeah, what are you. What are you doing there?

[Lacey Mosley]

Y' all were. Y' all were really obsessed. Just boring. So. Though many of her fakes have been recovered, the F3 in the eye admits that many are likely still in circulation.

[Elliot Glaser]

Very spooky.

[Lacey Mosley]

Very spooky.

[Elliot Glaser]

Very spooky.

[Lacey Mosley]

Okay, Lee. Good for you, I guess. Child.

[Elliot Glaser]

And she pulled it off. And she didn't get punished.

[Lacey Mosley]

She probably would have got away with it, too, if it wasn't for that pesky bar. Jack.

[Elliot Glaser]

That's right.

[Lacey Mosley]

I imagine Jack going into the bookstore, like, lit off, like, six beers and seven whiskey shots. Yeah, I got. I got a letter for you guys. And they're like, okay, Jack. And he's like, yeah, I got this for my cousin. He was friends with George Abraham. Excuse me. When Lincoln. Washington. Anyway, they like to have anal sex. Y' all want it?

[Elliot Glaser]

Wow.

[Lacey Mosley]

Like, what? All right, Lee, you know, if it was fun for you, then I'm happy for you.

[Elliot Glaser]

It was a gas.

[Lacey Mosley]

And it's time for Scammer of the Week. This is where we highlight one honorary charlatan. Group of thieves, you know, band of miscreants. We don't know. Maybe, like, maybe we hate them. Let's see. So, Scam of the Week is about people who were busted by the authorities in a racket involving corrupt doctors and lawyers using hundreds of unhoused individuals in a 31 million trip and fall scheme that ran from January 2013 to April of 2018. Five years.

[Elliot Glaser]

Wow.

[Lacey Mosley]

The scheme generated over $20 million in lawsuit settlements from convincing desperate individuals who feign to trip and fall like they did faked trip and fall. Accidentally, two lawyers and two doctors were charged in the Manhattan federal court for part of the scam that involved convincing people to undergo needless surgeries in order to boost the value of lawsuits.

[Elliot Glaser]

Wow.

[Lacey Mosley]

Seeking compensation for fake accidents.

[Elliot Glaser]

Ooh, Yikes.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yikes.

[Elliot Glaser]

Unnecessary.

[Lacey Mosley]

One of the lawyers, Mark Ellis.

[Elliot Glaser]

Terrifying.

[Lacey Mosley]

He was 49. And the doctor, Andrew Dowd, 45, and Sadie Ribeiro, 51, have been arrested and are awaiting court appearances. Another Lawyer, George Constantine, 58, is expected to surrender soon. So he just. Chilling. They, like, he said he gonna come in on the. On the fifth. He just gets to decide. He got some surgeries on the book, so, you know, Kobe really had a hospital back. We just. He gonna. He. He gonna come.

[Elliot Glaser]

He'll be there eventually.

[Lacey Mosley]

I want this privilege. Like, I thought when it was time for you go to jail. The girls just came and got you. Like, I get to jail. Listen, I'm running a little bit late for jail.

[Elliot Glaser]

I'm performing another unnecessary surgery today.

[Lacey Mosley]

I'm gonna probably be there in, like, 20 or 30 days.

[Elliot Glaser]

I need some Runway.

[Lacey Mosley]

It's a lot of traffic out here, so I'm. I'm just, you know, running late for jail. Constantine reportedly collected more than $5 million in legal fees, while Dowd, an orthopedic surgeon, earned $9,500 per surgery and performed hundreds of knee and shoulder surgeries on fall victim parents patients. Now, if you're getting an unnecessary surgery, are they. Are they at least giving you some bionic. Like, some. Are they. Like, we're gonna add a couple plates in your knees just to get it popping or some extra cushion? Like, what are you doing in this surgery?

[Elliot Glaser]

Are you cutting on the scary part? What could be going on there? We're talking bones, right?

[Lacey Mosley]

Is it like you just put them under anesthesia and then you give them a little scar and put some stitches on? Like, what? What? And also, I'm still concerned with these unhoused people. Like, are they a part of this? Are they getting coin from it? Because.

[Elliot Glaser]

So guess is, no.

[Lacey Mosley]

Participants in the scheme recruited more than 400 people to either claim they had fallen where no accident occurred or to deliberately fall at New York City locations where they could claim there were cracks in the concrete, sidewalks, potholes, or unsecured cellar doors, which. Those things do exist in New York.

[Elliot Glaser]

They do. That's right.

[Lacey Mosley]

Right. So lawyers then filed suits claiming the owners were at fault for negligence. So now they're going after business owners. The individuals recruited to act as victims were almost entire, like, entirely unhoused or extremely poor people, and would often ask for food when they appeared for meetings with their lawyer. Oh, no. They wanted food.

[Elliot Glaser]

Oh, no.

[Lacey Mosley]

Charges against the lawyers and doctors involved include multiple counts of conspiracy to commit wire fraud, mail fraud. Each count carries a maximum sentence of 20 years in prison. Y' all belong under the jail. And I don't even believe in the. The carcel system. You. I could have maybe. I could have maybe empathized if the unhoused or the poor people were getting a major cut of this money.

[Elliot Glaser]

Yes.

[Lacey Mosley]

But instead, y' all going out here not even really offering a Subway sandwich or. Or a sweetie meal from McDonald's, and these people are tripping and falling and doing your dirty work work, and you're not even breaking them off some coin. Like, if y' all are making millions of dollars a few thousand, $100,000 could be life changing for these people. And y' all not gonna give them a cut.

[Elliot Glaser]

And these scammers are already making money as doctors and lawyers, right?

[Lacey Mosley]

Y' all already are in lucrative careers. And, like, that's what bothers me about this. Y' all already really privileged. Like, yeah, it costs a lot of money to go through medical school, residency, malpractice insurance, all that. Lawyer, you know, go to law school, etc, you know. Yeah, but you're still making way more money than these people. You're exploiting them and you're not even paying them.

[Elliot Glaser]

Yeah, that's. That's insane. That's actually nuts.

[Lacey Mosley]

I don't have anything here about the unhoused people or the poor people being charged. So, you know, there might be a follow up. Maybe I'll drop it on the Instagram, but I hope that they're not being charged, especially because they didn't get anything out of this. They were pawns in Yalls greedy ass, fucked up scheme.

[Elliot Glaser]

Damn, it's messed up.

[Lacey Mosley]

That's really fucked up. And y' all doing unauthorized surgeries, unnecessary surgeries.

[Elliot Glaser]

So messed up. I mean, the idea of, like, getting together to plan this out and put the scam together and then go making people go under the knife, like, what? And you know it's fake. What? What? Like, what a waste. And again, I'm just like, why waste your time doing this? Like, how much. How much money could you be making? How much more money could you be making with this scam than what you're already making as doctors and lawyers and.

[Lacey Mosley]

You'Re preying on people's desperation. These people don't have any money. And, like, obviously none of them thought of blackmail.

[Elliot Glaser]

Obviously.

[Lacey Mosley]

Because, I mean, it's a risky sport. But I'm just. I'm flummoxed. That's that. I. I'm not for this scam. The scam sucks. You guys suck. But, guys, that is our episode. We always ask Elliot, what do you want to be fat found?

[Elliot Glaser]

Where do I want to be found? Like, on the Internet or like, in the world?

[Lacey Mosley]

On the Internet, if you want to be found in the world. But, like, you know, you can follow.

[Elliot Glaser]

Me at Elliott Glazer on all platforms.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah.

[Elliot Glaser]

And watch iCarly Season 2 when it comes out.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yes, because he's in the room. Boo. And also your podcast, it's called you're making it worse.

[Elliot Glaser]

That's right.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yes. You're making it worse. Guys, get into it. It's a really great podcast. I had a lot of fun doing it. Guys. As always, always snitch on your friends and family at Scam Goddess Pod gmail dot com. Just make sure your scam is retired. We don't want to what? Yes. Up your bag if you want to follow us on all platforms. Scam Goddess Pod if you want to see the photos and things that we're talking about. Maybe I'll even post the picture of me with the Mona Lisa. It's sad. And if you want to follow me D I V A L A C I D Valacy on all platforms Guys. Pod Swag the merch is cute. Get into it. Go on there. SL Scam Goddess and as always guys, if you like the podcast, give us five stars. It's free, it's free to do and it's great for me. And tell a friend congregation. Stay scheming. Scam Goddess this has been an Earwolf production in association with Team Coco. Scam got us stars and is hosted by me, Lacey Moseley, AKA Scam Goddess. It's produced by Judith Kargbo, engineered by Marina Paiz and researched by Kalen Brandt. Stay scheming. Change is always happening. But no matter what changes in five years, there's one thing that will the same the price of your Internet. With the Xfinity five year price guarantee, you get five years of the most reliable WI fi with our best equipment included for a price that stays exactly the same. Restrictions apply. New residential customers only. Taxes and fees extra and subject to change. Most reliable WI Fi based on Open Signal Awards USA Fixed Broadband Experience Report August 2024.

[Elliot Glaser]

Meet Flip.

[Lacey Mosley]

She's one half of a Flip Flop. That's me who got left behind at Celebration Key, Carnival's exclusive parents paradise in Grand Bahama. I chose to stay here. It really is paradise.

[Elliot Glaser]

So now Flip spends her time lounging on the beach, swimming in the lagoon and eating.

[Lacey Mosley]

The only thing more impressive than my appetite are all the dining options. Yeah. Have you tried food service to your cabana? Ooh, yum. Flip. Where'd she go? Book your cruise. Vacation to Carnival Celebration Key. A paradise you'll want to lose yourself in. Ships registry the Bahamas, in Panama.