Fraud Friday: The Pristine Ponzi Scheme w/ Matt Walsh

Summary

Podcast Summary: Scam Goddess

Episode Title: Fraud Friday: The Pristine Ponzi Scheme w/ Matt Walsh
Host: Laci Mosley
Guest: Matt Walsh (Veep, UCB co-founder)
Release Date: January 23, 2026

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Episode Overview

This “Fraud Friday” episode of Scam Goddess is a re-release of a classic the fans loved, diving into the infamous Bernie Madoff Ponzi scheme (“the Pristine Ponzi”) with guest Matt Walsh. It’s a lively, hilarious exploration of one of history’s most notorious financial scams as Laci and Matt break down the mechanics, impact, and the very culture of scamming, riff with personal stories about gambling and fake IDs, and take comedic detours through pop culture and family dynamics. The episode also features a “Scammer of the Week” segment where a gutsy teen impersonates a state senator.

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Sections & Timestamps

1. Opening Banter and Scamming Mindset
2. Hot n’ Fraud: The Fake ID Email
3. Historic Hoodwinks: The Bernie Madoff Ponzi Scheme
   • Ponzi Schemes 101
   • Bernie Madoff’s Background & Methods
   • The Family, The Cover-Up, & The Collapse
4. Scammer of the Week: Senator for a Day
5. Notable Quotes & Moments
6. Key Takeaways

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1. Opening Banter & Scamming Mindset (01:00–11:00)

• Laci welcomes Matt Walsh (creator of UCB, actor from Veep).
• Matt jokes about his intro:

  “That's a great intro. That's a little shorter next time, but that's a really good intro.” (02:10 — Matt Walsh)

• They riff about aliases and the paradox of being obvious about your intentions as a scammer (Scam Goddess as an open “alias”), and the psychology of enjoying scams.
• Matt shares a story of being “suckered” by a friend into a bogus gambling strategy in Atlantic City:

  “Within three minutes, that money was gone...but our fool, he convinced me.” (03:18 — Matt Walsh)

• Laci shares gambling wisdom learned from her father, emphasizes the “house always wins,” and why “leaving” is the best casino scam protection:

  “The key to winning in any CAS is to leave.” (06:35 — Laci Mosley)

Side Note

• Extended riffing on casinos, poker, and how the allure of “winning” (and delusion of skill) fuels both personal and mass-scale scams.
• Pop culture tangent about people watching sports and esports, with Laci’s story of being shocked by a DJ Mustard set that was just him opening a laptop (09:06–10:07).

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2. Hot n’ Fraud: The Fake ID Email (11:00–18:50)

• Listener “B” writes in about a high school fake ID scam.
  • Ordered in bulk (11 IDs for $180 each) from “fakeid.com” via a wire transfer to Hong Kong.
  • IDs delayed—group believes they’ve been swindled, but most IDs do come weeks later.
  • Later, the site is “hacked” and money is rerouted to an actual scammer; later buyers get nothing.
  • Moral: You can’t go to police when you’re scammed for an illegal purchase.
• Matt and Laci humorously debate whether you could try a chargeback with a bank for a crime (“Your bank don’t gotta know you was doing crime, right?” —12:21, Laci).
• Laci’s own fake ID saga: purchased in bulk, only worked once before being exposed by scanner tech (15:19), resorted to nostril-flaring to impersonate a friend.

“I got it snatched from me the second time. Then I had to just start using a friend’s ID who looked like me. Actually, we didn’t look alike… I’d flare my nostrils…” (17:33 — Laci Mosley)

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3. Historic Hoodwinks: The Bernie Madoff Ponzi Scheme (20:50–66:25)

Ponzi Schemes 101 (21:54–26:05)

• What is a Ponzi Scheme?
  • Named after Charles Ponzi, who promised 50% returns in 90 days—“90 days is such a great scammer amount of time” (22:23, Laci).
  • Central operator pays old investors with new investors’ money.
  • “The addiction is the first win”—Matt asks about psychology:

    “He does that once to you, right? He makes you believe it’s gonna work. And that’s where the addiction is…?” (24:09 — Matt Walsh)

  • Transparency deliberately vague to keep suspicion low and buy time.

Bernie Madoff’s Background & Methods (29:48–32:32)

• Madoff started with $5,000 (from lifeguarding and sprinkler installs) + $50,000 from in-laws, founded Bernard L. Madoff Investment Securities.
• By 1980s, handled over 5% of NYSE trades.
• Employed family extensively.
• NOTABLE SCAM: Falsified SEC reports by refrigerating freshly printed (still-warm) fake documents so they’d feel “aged” when the SEC did surprise audits:

  “They would put documents in the fridge...so they would cool down before they gave them.” (32:05 — Laci Mosley)

The Family, The Cover-Up, & The Collapse (46:55–66:25)

• Madoff confesses to sons:

  • Both sons claim ignorance and turn him in (Laci skeptical: “There’s no way in hell that they didn’t know that their dad was doing crime.” —47:34).
  • Clip played of Andrew Madoff on “doing the right thing”:

    "Knowing the right thing to do and then knowing how to do it are two totally different things." (47:59 — Andrew Madoff, via Laci)

  • Laci and Matt analyze: Sons likely complicit, legal advice steered the self-reporting.
  • CFO Frank DePascali sings to feds, sharing books-in-fridge trick and other cover-ups; dies of cancer before sentencing (53:41).
  • Madoff pleads guilty with no plea deal, receives 150 years in prison (58:13).

• Cultural Sidebars:

  • Why the scam lasted so long (institutional trust, opulence, family insularity).
  • Madoff’s clients included Steven Spielberg, Kevin Bacon, Kyra Sedgwick, NY Mets owner Fred Wilpon.
  • Laci’s argument: Most institutions, even government, are scams (e.g., “The Parking Authority is a scam organization.” —41:43).
  • What happens to seized assets? Little restitution for most victims; often a symbolic gesture.

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4. Scammer of the Week: Senator for a Day (66:25–73:00)

18-year-old Isaiah Atkins impersonated an Ohio state senator:

• Pulled up to a school with two “aides,” presented as if he’d replaced the real senator, gave a talk.
• Real senator appears weeks later—scam revealed.
• Claimed (after arrest) it was “to expose security risks in small town schools.” Laci and Matt both skeptical of this cover story.
• Critique falls on staff for not double-checking and the government teacher for not catching obvious red flags.

“You are a US government teacher, sis. She needs to be fired. Frankly, she’s the one who needs to be facing some charges.” (69:56 — Laci Mosley)

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5. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Casino Scams:

  “The house always wins… the key to winning in any CAS is to leave.” (06:35 — Laci Mosley)

• On Being a Call Person:

  “I'm not gonna street whore myself. I will pick someone up at a cocktail.” (04:52 — Matt Walsh)

• On Bulk Fake IDs:

  “Honestly, it’s the capitalist way and I appreciate it.” (16:20 — Laci Mosley)

• On Ethics & Crime:

  “If you can scam into your 70s and not get caught until your 70s, that’s beautiful.” (22:18 — Laci Mosley)

• On Laws Being Scams:

  “Laws are a scam. You know what I mean? Like, there were laws that said that I couldn’t be in here with you, Matt. Scam, scam, laws, laws.” (42:58 — Laci Mosley)

• Financial Industry Parallels:

  “If you bundle subprime mortgages, you’re a scam artist.” (16:38 — Matt Walsh)

• On Family Loyalty in Scams:

  “We should always know that you’re looking at a scam when they’re surrounded by their family, because those are people that they have, one: spat out and made and manipulated for their entire life.” (44:45 — Laci Mosley)

• On Snitching:

  “Snitching is easy. Look at Takashi. He’s snitching on people that we didn’t even ask for!” (48:28 — Laci Mosley)

• On Prison Sentences for Money Crimes:

  “It’s insane that he was gonna face 125 years for stealing people’s money. That feels excessive.” (53:50 — Laci Mosley)

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6. Key Takeaways

• Scams are everywhere: Both grand and small-scale, from casino gaming myths to global Ponzi schemes.
• Ponzi mechanics & psychology: Big returns lure in both wealthy and ordinary folks, especially if you see “proof” up front.
• Trust nobody—especially family-run scams: Madoff kept it “in the family”; all denied knowledge, but the podcast casts doubt on their innocence.
• Cover-up ingenuity: The “hot docs in the fridge” trick for the SEC is a standout illustration of practical scam chicanery.
• Victim restitution is rare: Seized assets rarely make victims whole—especially in high-profile, diffuse scams.
• Scams need structure: Even fraudulent businesses mimic legitimate corporate bureaucracy (aides, fake family jobs, elaborate documentation).
• The entertainment of fraud: The comedic take shows scams are not just criminal but culturally resonant, shaping everything from church raffles to government organizations.
• Vigilance is critical: Be skeptical, double-check institutions, and don’t assume defenses are in place just because someone sounds “official.”

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Episode Closing

• Plugs:
  • Matt Walsh: Instagram @mrmattwalsh, upcoming miniseries “Finding Marcus Tron.”
  • Laci Mosley (@divalaci): Invites listeners to share scam stories.
• End Motto:

  “Stay schemin', congregation!”

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For Listeners New to “Scam Goddess”

This episode is a fast, insightful, genuinely funny take on scams—fresh and classic alike. Laci and her guest combine personal anecdotes, in-depth research, and pop culture rants to make crime accessible and illuminating. Expect to leave not just laughing, but with sharper scam detection skills—plus at least one new story about putting fake IDs in a fridge.

Transcript

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[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Oh, could this vintage store be any cuter? Right. And the best part, they accept Discover. Except Discover in a little place like this? I don't think so, Jennifer. Oh yeah, huh? Discover's accepted where I like to shop. Come on, baby. Get with the times. Right. So we shouldn't get the parachute pants. These are making a comeback, I think.

[Commercial Announcer]

Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide. Based on the February 2025 Nielsen report.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

What's poppin? Congregation it's your girl, Lacey Mosley, AKA Scam Goddess. Welcome to an episode of Fraud Fridays where we release older episodes from the Scam Goddess vault. That's right, Fraud Fridays is where we bring back your favorite episodes from behind the Paywall. Enjoy this episode from behind the Paywall. And as always, stay scheming. Scams cos. Robbery and frauds. Scams, robbery and fraud. Congregation welcome to another episode of Scam Goddess. Guys, I'm so excited about our guest today. He is just a comedy giant and I am so excited to have him here. Guys, I have Mr. Matt Walsh. You've probably seen him on Veep. You've probably seen on so many other things. Also, he's one of the creators of the comedy theater that I came out of, ucb. So this man has done a lot for me and he's also just hilarious and I'm so happy to have him here. Hi, Matt.

[Matt Walsh]

That's a great intro. That's a little shorter next time, but that's a really good intro.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Honestly. Could be longer. Cody, pull up the IMDb. No, let's read every credit.

[Matt Walsh]

Punish someone with their IMDb. It's a pleasure to be here, Scam Goddess. What do I call you on this show? Just so I don't.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

We were talking about names earlier. Icy name. Yeah, I'm Lacy.

[Matt Walsh]

Lacy, yeah.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Yeah.

[Matt Walsh]

Just Lacy.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Yeah. The scammers know. I told everyone, like, you should have an alias if you're a scammer. Unfortunately, my alias is like super obvious. I feel like if I call myself Scam Goddess, people know what's about to happen.

[Matt Walsh]

Right.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

But I think that's fair. I can still scam you. You think you know what's gonna happen, but you're right.

[Matt Walsh]

Like when the medicine show came into town, or like, you knew there was something magic about it, but he still would scam people.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Exactly.

[Matt Walsh]

Do you know what I mean?

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Yeah. I pride myself in people feeling good after I've scammed them. Like, oh, man, that was fun.

[Matt Walsh]

It's the allure, money.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

But I had a good time.

[Matt Walsh]

It's the allure of winning, you know, or like, being smarter than the game.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Right. That.

[Matt Walsh]

That suckers people. And I have a Atlantic City story that I. My friend convinced me you could guaranteed win at roulette. And we brought $300 down.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Okay.

[Matt Walsh]

And within three minutes, that money was gone. But our. But heart. But our fool, he convinced me. My buddy Bill, he's like, you just, like, bet 20, red. If it's not red, you go 40 that way, you know, because eventually red's going to come up. It's never more likely. Like, you're just doubling down.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Yeah.

[Matt Walsh]

So if you bet 20, you lost. Lost 20. Okay. Now to make that up, you bet 40 and say you lose that 40, no big deal. You now pay 60 on the ride, and you're eventually going to hit black and win somehow.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Okay, that sounds.

[Matt Walsh]

That was truly what I was convinced of and how it relates to your show, hopefully, is that I'm a sucker because I thought my friend knew of a thing that would win.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Did he, like, tell you that would.

[Matt Walsh]

Win money in Atlantic City? Yes. Or a friend.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Come on. I saw George Clooney do this in a movie. Like, what is this? Who is his friend?

[Matt Walsh]

He's an actor. No, we're not really close anymore.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

You left him in Atlantic City. Like, truly. I don't know what happened to him after Atlantic City.

[Matt Walsh]

No, we had a. We had a. Atlantic City's not a fun place to be with no money at, like, late at night, waiting at a bus station.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Yeah. You know, that's why they always keep the hoochie clothes at the casinos. When you lose, you might have to go turn some tricks so you can get home.

[Matt Walsh]

Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

You know, go in there and get your little banana hammock. Mat. Get out on the block.

[Matt Walsh]

Get out there and work.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Get on the block, mat. Well, you got to earn your way back.

[Matt Walsh]

If I'm doing that, I'm going to like, whatever the Four Seasons is of Atlantic City.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

I like that. You are very.

[Matt Walsh]

I'm not gonna street whore myself.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Exactly. You're not a $20 hustle.

[Matt Walsh]

I will pick someone up at a cocktail.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Yes, exactly.

[Matt Walsh]

I would be a call person.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

They slide the room key over all of that. Yeah, yeah.

[Matt Walsh]

See, class ass.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

You fucking on 100 thread count sheets. 300 thread count sheets. Okay, I get it. That's where I would give my ass away, too. I'm on one today. I'm sorry. Y. Oh, man.

[Matt Walsh]

Get home. Only to get home. The agreement was. It's to get home.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Yeah.

[Matt Walsh]

You have no money, and you're trying to get home.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

And, you know, every night you trying to get home. Theoretically, every night you go to your home where you house your body. So, you know, technically, I'm always trying to get home. You know, I definitely think that this counts as a scam. I mean, casinos in general are huge scams. Like, the allure is like, you'll go in and you'll win big. I learned from my dad how to gamble at 16. And I only play craps, and I'm really good at playing craps.

[Matt Walsh]

You understand the game.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Yeah, I understand the game. I understand what bets are really sexy, but really are bad odds. And the house wins a lot. Like, anytime you see anybody who goes in and plays the field, they don't know what the fuck they're doing. Field is the worst bet in the house. You will win large amounts, but then you will lose them immediately.

[Matt Walsh]

What does a field bet means?

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

So a field bet means if a number like, 2, 5. No, 2, 3, 12. Craps. So 2 and 12 pay double on the field. A yo. 11. Like, all these numbers, basically, that are kind of low, averaging, like, hitting on the dice. If they hit, they'll pay you double.

[Matt Walsh]

If you hit and you ride that bet for one roll.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Yeah.

[Matt Walsh]

Okay. And it usually loses, right?

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Yeah, it usually loses. Comes down after every roll.

[Matt Walsh]

Okay.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

But people will play it and, like, they'll hit a bit when the table's cold, because those numbers aren't good. Those aren't numbers that are actual, like, place bets. But when the table's hot, you're just gonna lose all that money again. But the key to, like, winning in any CAS is to leave, like, people start having fun, and that's when you lose your money. And also, don't play with people who look like they really need to win. Like, I go to a casino, I take out money, and then I look at that money, I say, this money's gone. This money's for fun. And then I play with it, and if it's gone, but I don't lose I'll play. I'll win back what I made, then have fun with the rest.

[Matt Walsh]

And then I played open table. Like, I'm not a good poker player, but I played open table in Vegas one weekend or something a night, and I just ended up, like, my style just ended up being, like, grinding it out. Just, like, grinding out. And I probably made, like, 12 bucks over, like, three or four hours.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

But you were having fun.

[Matt Walsh]

No, I wasn't.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

No fun.

[Matt Walsh]

I wasn't.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Why was it. Was it were the other poker.

[Matt Walsh]

Because I think it's a game I'm not good at. And the only way for me to not lose money is to play just, like, hard on great cards and then just ride like. Do you know what I mean? I don't think I'll ever be really good at poker. I can't read the faces. I can't.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Yeah, you got to be able to scam people and count cards and be lucky and get a good hand.

[Matt Walsh]

Yes. And I can. I. There was a time where I actually enjoyed, like, watching it. A brief time where you watch the first time, like, World Series Poker, and you see guys playing and you see someone with a hand, and you see that guy just playing it so real or something like that. Like, oh, that's. That's really good. It's good acting or just nothing. More than likely. It's nothing. Like, if you're the Unabomber, you have your hood up. You've had the same face the whole time.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Right.

[Matt Walsh]

But you see someone, like, look up and I don't know that part of it. It was interesting to me.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

I remember watching poker too, and I thought it was wild that we. What a scam for us to all have a televised event where we just watch people play cards.

[Matt Walsh]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

We watch you play cards. I mean, that's technically sports. We watch you kick a ball.

[Matt Walsh]

I know. And now it's video sports. Now people go to arenas to watch people play video sports.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Yes. Twitch is like, a huge thing where people are watching other people play video games. I think that is absolutely insane. And I'm trying to get involved.

[Matt Walsh]

My oldest boy was, like, telling me. He's like, it's no different than, like, football. Like, you're watching football on TV and that's on a screen, and I'm like, somehow it is, but.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Right. I think it is. I think that that's a generational thing that sometimes even bothers me. I went to a Made in America concert, and DJ Mustard was there, and DJ Mustard, like, he does the little, like, Mustard on that beat in front of, like, all his beats. And he's pretty popular. And he was doing a set at Made in America. So I go to the set, and I kid you not. He opens his MacBook and the crowd goes wild. People were screaming when this man opened his computer. And I looked around and I was like, what the fuck is. Are you telling me? We came over here. I thought he was gonna have some turntables. I thought he was at least gonna do a little Scritchy Scratchy or something. Like, he really came over here with a laptop. And we about to hit. Watch this nigga press play. I can't believe it. I can't believe it. And I love it. I want to get involved. I'm trying to figure out, if people watch me play video games poorly, could that be entertaining? Because I can't play them.

[Matt Walsh]

Well, if you were entertaining vocally, like, if you were saying funny shit.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

If I just.

[Matt Walsh]

People would watch you running into the wall.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

I couldn't figure out how to get him from stop running into the wall. But for, like, three hours.

[Matt Walsh]

Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting because a lot of the understanding of culture, they get. They get it through parody, if you know what I mean. There'll be. Somebody will reference Jaws while they're watching a Minecraft game happen. And they'll be like, I'm like, the shark. They'll make a Shark Jaws joke or something like, dad, what's that Jaws about?

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Oh, wow. Your son doesn't know what Jaws.

[Matt Walsh]

Well, now he does. He was obsessed with sharks for a while.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

That's very funny that now he's, like, totally into Jaws. We're gonna get started with the first segment. Cause this has been real tangential, and I love it. Which is hot and fraud. So hot and fried. Matt, this is a moment where I talk to the listeners out there, the congregation, about scams. Cause I don't want my congregation to get scammed by anybody but me. You know what I mean? If it's my scam, please participate. I need that. But anybody else, you know, we try to prevent it.

[Matt Walsh]

Yeah. Take care of each other, right?

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Exactly. Exactly. This scam comes from my girl B. She asked to be called B. And I understand, because when you're doing fraud, you know, you don't need your government name out there. But B says, hi, Lacey, I have an old scam for you. When I was in high school, about eight or nine years ago, I decided I needed a fake id. Not sure how to go about it. I asked one of the rich girls in My grade one of only people who I knew had one and how she got hers. And she told me about a website called fakeid.com, which is pretty obvious. Yeah, you would think, like a government official or somebody would look that up and be like, huh, maybe we should look into fakeid.com. sounds suspicious. Yeah, but I love that the name is so obvious. You know, you got to be able to find.

[Matt Walsh]

That's how you find it. They probably have good lawyers. They're like, come at us, right? What are we doing illegally?

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Yeah. What are you talking about? Yeah, we call our website fake ID, but that doesn't mean we're making fake IDs. We make music. What do they do? They're like, we make affordable trash bags.

[Matt Walsh]

We reclaim medical waste.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

These are all great fronts. So I was so surprised that they used this website to order IDs, but my dumb ass was like, okay, these are her words. After looking up the website, the deal was two fake IDs for $200, and if you ordered 10 or more, it was 180 for both. All we had to do was send over a Word document with our desired ID information, take an ID photo with a plain background, and wire the money using Western Union to Hong Kong. Easy, right? So being a very broke high schooler, I was like, I need that discount. So I have to find nine other people to join me. Naturally, my best friend was in, and it was actually surprisingly easy to find nine other people to join. So we officially had to order of 11 fake IDs at $180 each. So they wired 1980 to someone in Hong Kong. They were told it would take one to two months for it to arrive. After two months, I was concerned that they were not going to arrive. We all realized we were out of luck and lost 180 each, and there was nothing that we could do about it. A couple weeks later, they said, oh, I guess we couldn't call the police and be like, we were swindled out of buying our fake IDs. That's the thing about doing crime is like, there's no protections like there are.

[Matt Walsh]

For, you know, criminality.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Yeah, yeah. For legitimate things. You can't be like, hey, this guy didn't mail me my acid on the dark web.

[Matt Walsh]

Right.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

But I wonder if you could call your bank, though. I feel like you could call your bank. Your bank don't gotta know that you was doing crime. Right.

[Matt Walsh]

Well, if it's a Western. So you would go, oh, well, they.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Wired it, right, Right. See, that's the Thing about wires.

[Matt Walsh]

Real money. Yeah, yeah, That's Western Union is like real money, right?

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Yeah. And we've talked a lot about the show and how wire transfers are basically one of just, like, the fundamentals of scamming, because it's instant money, you can't get it back and there's no recompense. And that's how you want your money when you're a scammer.

[Matt Walsh]

Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

So a couple weeks later, she said that her friend texted her and the IDs actually came and they were real fake IDs. And she said they worked for a long time. And then other kids who decided not to get in on this scheme with her, they immediately were jealous and went out and spent like $4,000 getting these same fake IDs. Unfortunately, fakeid.com was hacked, and so all the money was rerouted to someone who was not making any IDs. So then the scam no longer worked. I had a fake ID.

[Matt Walsh]

Wow, that's a fascinating story.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

I ordered a fake ID online. So I used fakeids.com. yeah, I did. It was a Pennsylvania ID because I went to school in Pittsburgh and it only worked for one night because.

[Matt Walsh]

What do you mean?

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Because somebody. I guess we all.

[Matt Walsh]

They gave you one that had one day till expiration.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

I had one night. I'm out in town with.

[Matt Walsh]

It expires. You want it or not?

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

They said I had to go back to the dmv. I said, I can't.

[Matt Walsh]

That's a good premise for a movie. You can drink like you're 21, but only for one night. Go.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Then your ID expired. I think that's actually a movie that's going to be coming out.

[Matt Walsh]

Is it?

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Yeah. I read a script that sounds just like that, but I think it was because a bunch of us ordered them at the same time, like kind of in this fashion. I think there was a discount if you bought a bunch of them, you know, if you buy your. In bulk. In bulk, which is how I like to buy my fake government documents and both. So I did have two of them. The first one got taken the second night that I tried to go out with it because every. Because they scanned. That was a big deal.

[Matt Walsh]

Like, you want to ask you what year this was?

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

This was. I say, 1919. It was 2011.

[Matt Walsh]

So these people, you gave them information to make a fake id, right?

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

I did.

[Matt Walsh]

And none of your accounts, like, you didn't get your identity stolen as a result?

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

No, because I didn't give him anything real.

[Matt Walsh]

Nothing was real.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Yeah.

[Matt Walsh]

Okay.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Because you don't like. They make up your driver's license number. You don't need to give them anything other than the address.

[Matt Walsh]

You want it to go to a credit card number.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

I'm trying to remember how we paid. I didn't pay. That's what it was. I just took the photo and then somebody else had arranged to order the IDs and I sent my money via whatever app we were using at the time. I think we were just. I think it was back then we just got cash out of the atm. It was a crazy time.

[Matt Walsh]

Well, it's, it's interesting to bundle. To bundle anything like that. Like to bundle. To bundle fake IDs and then move them that way.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Honestly, it's the capitalist way and I appreciate it. It was.

[Matt Walsh]

I had a guy, I had a guy I worked with at a restaurant. He. I saw him like eight years later and he was. I'm like, what are you doing? He's like, oh, I'm moving. I bundle car loans and then I move them to other institutions, financial institutions.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

That sounds like a scam.

[Matt Walsh]

That was his living. It might be a scam. That loan consolidation, it's eventually going to deflate. You're right. In value. You're right. Maybe it is like a. I guess. So if you bundle subprime mortgages, you're a scam artist.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Right. Because these are also depreciating values. So like. Yeah, I mean, look, we all knew that that's how the housing market. Woo. But.

[Matt Walsh]

But they're all. With each individual contract is legitimate paper. Like they're not buying like cocaine.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Right?

[Matt Walsh]

Right.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

They're buying like they might be. It's a possibility. I will say though, like, we all got found out because some. There was like a. Like a construction error. What's the word I'm looking for? Like a default or something. In all of the cards. And it was the same on every id. They all like were missing some specific thing or they were flashing this blue light on it. And because we all bought these in bulk, we all had the same kind of malfunct.

[Matt Walsh]

Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

So I got it snatched from me the second time. Then I had to just start using a friend's ID who looked like me. Actually, we didn't look alike. She had like a bigger like nostrils. So when I would use her id, I would show up to the club and I'd flare my nostrils out like this. I'd be like, hello. And I would just hold my nose out like this. It worked every time.

[Matt Walsh]

Well, you also have an attitude when you make that face like, can we finish this?

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Right? I'm old. Why was my mom like, oh, you need a fake ID? You can use mine. I was like, you are 20 years older than me or 21 years older than me. Where am I gonna go talk about? I'm 49, like. Like, sis.

[Matt Walsh]

She was gonna give it up, though. When you were 19?

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

When I was 20, yeah.

[Matt Walsh]

Oh, wow.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Right? Isn't that crazy?

[Matt Walsh]

That's a cool mom, I think.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

I didn't drink in high school. Like, I didn't get to go anywhere. So I think in college she was like, you can go drink.

[Matt Walsh]

Shake up your heels.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Yeah, Yeah, a little bit. The first time I ever got drunk was with my parents. I once got so drunk with my mom that I woke up in bed with my parents. It's not how it sounds. Like, I woke up in the corner of the bed and was like, what the fuck happened?

[Matt Walsh]

Hammered.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Hammered, hammered. And I was like, this is not okay. And my mom was like, I was trying to give you a cool compress, but you were being very mean to me. My mom can drink me under a table.

[Matt Walsh]

Oh, that's funny.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Oh, gosh. Scams. What's poppin, congregation? Okay, I'm coming at y' all hot because we need to debunk some things about Plan B emergency contraception, right? Now, listen, Plan B is not an abortion pill. It's safe, effective backup birth control you take after unprotected sex to prevent pregnancy before it starts. And are y' all ready for the inside tea? It works by temporarily delaying ovulation and it will not impact your future fertility. Because some days, who knows, someday you might want a little unemployed person in your house. Follow Plan B on insta at Plan B. One step. Use as directed.

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[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

It's 2026 and, you know, January 1st. That's. That's too early to get to our goals. Like, we gotta ease into the goals of the new year, right? Like, if you want to stick to a workout, you know, get a mean friend who likes to jog with you way too fast. It's hard to find people who are good at what they do. It's like you're hiring. How can you find the best people all the different roles in your team? Easy. ZipRecruiter. And right now you can try it for free. ZipRecruiter's matching technology works fast to find top talent so you don't waste time or money. You can find out right away how many job seekers in your area are qualified for roles. With ZipRecruiter advanced resume database, you can instantly unlock top candidates contact info. No wonder ZipRecruiter is the number one rated hiring site based on G2. Let ZipRecruiter help you find the best people for all your roles. 4 out of 5 employers who host on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. See for yourself. Just go to this exclusive web address right now to try ZipRecruiter for free. ZipRecruiter.com Goddess Again, that's ZipRecruiter.com Goddess ZipRecruiter. The smartest way to hire. Y' all know it's time for my favorite segment of this show, Historic Hoodwinks. This is where I regale your boy Matt Walsh with a historic H. We just get his commentary, opinions and feelings along the way. So today, guys, this is a super popular one that I know you all know about. A king, incarcerated king. Mr. Bernard Lawrence Madoff. AKA Bernie Madoff. AKA Bernie MadOff. With all your money.

[Matt Walsh]

Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Yes. He's an American financier. I'm going to put that in quotes. Financier who executed the largest Ponzi scheme in history, defrauding thousands of investors out of tens of billions of dollars over the course of 17 years and possibly longer. And I would think longer. Career scammer. If you can scam into your 70s and not get caught until your 70s, that's beautiful.

[Matt Walsh]

Yeah. That person has game. You're right.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

I don't understand why they weren't giving him a lifetime achievement award.

[Matt Walsh]

Like scamming.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Yeah. I'm sorry. If you get that far, like, we're all dumb and you deserve the world. I'm not mad at it, so. But you know, you're scamming rich people, so they are definitely going to get you back. I'm just gonna tell you guys out there how Ponzi schemes work, just so we're all on the same page. So the name originated with Charles Ponzi, who promised 50 returns on investments in only 90 days. I feel like, 90 days is such a great scammer amount of time. Like, if you get on any. If you're up late at night and you see any commercial for anything, they'd be like, oh, it's only three installments of 49.9. You know what I mean? Like, 90 days is just enough time where you'll pay something consistently before you start feeling, like, robbed. You know what I mean? Like 90 days, I give you my money, I'd be like, okay, I'm gonna get it back in three months. Okay, that's. That seems acceptable. Four months, though. No, no, I'm angry. I want my money back. So Ponzi schemes are run by a central operator who uses the money from new incoming investors to pay off promised returns to owed them ones. So basically, you take money from people. You say, in 90 days, it's about to be lit. You about to have I'm a double your coin, right? But you have to keep doing this because technically you're just taking money from other people and then giving it to other people. And then you can you skim a little off the top for yourself. So to avoid having too many investors reclaiming their profits, Ponzi schemes encourage them to stay in the game to earn even more money. So it's like, oh, you thought these three months was lit? You wait until you try 10 years. So investing strategies are vague.

[Matt Walsh]

And so can I ask a question? So nobody walks away after the first. Like, if you have a Ponzi guy and he says, give me 5 million and in six months you'll have 10 million, right?

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Yeah.

[Matt Walsh]

He does that once to you, right? He makes you believe it's gonna work. And that's where the addiction is, that how it works. So after 10, I could have literally. Or they one could find another person to invest their money with.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Right? So if you get it on a Ponzi scheme early and you actually get the returns on your investment and decide to de invest then, or divest rather, then you actually would win on that scam. But the whole point is, is that he gives you back half of what you invested as a profit, and then he still has the money that you invested technically in your brain, but really he just gave you half your money back, right?

[Matt Walsh]

Yeah, it's an inch. Because you're seeing like, if I give you 5 million and you say, aren't they more likely to say, okay, but you got to be in for a couple years, they might show you a profit at six months, they might show your bank account and say, look, check Your bank account today, there's 10 million there. That's no. Or. Or the money was real. Do you know what I mean?

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Yeah.

[Matt Walsh]

And then they take it. But now there's another thing. If you give me that 10, now, we're going to turn it into 20. So then he takes your whatever, maybe get you in for another five more there.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Yeah, no, it's exactly how it works. So it's like, okay. And then when he's getting other people to invest, he's just taking that money. Like, let's say you want to divest a little bit, or you want to see some of your returns, and you want to actually take some of your returns. He will take the money that he just got from somebody else and give it to you.

[Matt Walsh]

Right.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

So there was never.

[Matt Walsh]

There's diminishing resources. And, yeah, if I'm a member, it's not like an amway scam in that. Now, my job is to recruit other people into the Ponzi. There's usually only one Ponzi. One person at the center of a Ponzi. Right.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

And investing strategies are vague or secretive, which schemers claim is to protect their business. So if you have these investing strategies that are making millions, you don't have to tell anybody what they are, because the natural assumption is that if you shared it, other people would do it, and then it would become less valuable. And even though these people aren't now working for the scam, it's not like herbalife, where now you're like, oh, come on, y' all invest in Bertie. Ma paid off. But you know how money is. You know how rich people are like, you know, you got some coins. Bad. Bad. Got some coins, honey. So, you know when y' all be at the meetings and at the functions and, you know, the illuminati meetings, and they'd be like, oh, you know, I just made like a. A 50 return on an investment in 90 days. You are kind of doing the work for him because you're a rich person telling other rich people how they can get rich, which he has celebrities involved.

[Matt Walsh]

But you're not profiting. Like, if I bring three of my friends into the ponzi, I don't see any more money.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Absolutely not. But that doesn't matter because that's, like a status thing. Like, people are doing that for status because, like, Kyra sedgwick was giving him coin. Kevin Bacon was giving him points. I said, damn, Kevin Bacon. We all six degrees away from Kevin bacon and the scam, honey. And New York mets owner Was giving him coins. Fred Wilpon. So, like, oh, Steven Spielberg, come on now. You know, like, these are prominent names. Like, you know, you go into the black tie events and Steve. And talking about. Yeah, I'm Bernie, Just listen. I'm invest. Steve Silver made the Color Purple. Like, who are we giving our money to?

[Matt Walsh]

I feel bad for anyone, though, who got lost their, like, money. You do if they're. If they're zeroed out or something? Yeah, I do. I. Because nobody. I don't know. Even I feel bad for rich people. Not for. Not for rich people.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Wow. I feel bad for rich people.

[Matt Walsh]

There's the full quote.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

There's a pull quote of this entire show. Mad Waltz feels bad, but for rich people.

[Matt Walsh]

If you're a 10 millionaire, say you're a 10 millionaire and Bernie Madoff took all your money, and that was, like, your retirement for you and your wife, and now you got nothing.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

But why would you give him $10 million? That's like. That's too much.

[Matt Walsh]

I think you get suckered in. I think you get suckered in. Maybe you go in for a million at first, and you're like, here's a million next year. Let me show you the returns after year one. Do you want to come in for two? And then you're a dad.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Did you get taken by Bernie Madoff?

[Matt Walsh]

I didn't.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Is this your story?

[Matt Walsh]

I did not, no.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

I don't know, Matt. It started to sound very specific. He's like, I mean, what if you're a guy, you know, I'm doing an average. Named Matt. You know, what if. What if, you know, in between shooting Veep, you were like, I want to double my millions. And then you meet Bernie at an Oscar party, and then Steven Spielberg says that he's a cool guy.

[Matt Walsh]

So I am unfortunately easy prey for, like. Like a scam person.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Yeah.

[Matt Walsh]

Because I don't understand. No, I have, like, someone who helps me plan, you know, so I don't lose all the money or whatever. Like, I'm not good at money.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

But do you watch that person?

[Matt Walsh]

I trust that person. Yeah. Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

I trust nobody.

[Matt Walsh]

Yeah, well, you're smart, too. You're smart.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

I mean, as long as you're, like, overseeing. My mom was always like, you're never big enough to not sign your own chicks. And I was like, okay.

[Matt Walsh]

Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Sometimes I do let people deposit checks into my bank account, though, so I should probably look at those.

[Matt Walsh]

But think of the time you free from your life by not, like, monitoring, like, every single.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Yeah, but then sometimes you get Rihanna'd Rihanna's money manager was managing her money poorly. And by managing, I mean, she was managing to steal a lot of it.

[Matt Walsh]

Really.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Yeah. Stole a lot of her money. Like, almost bankrupted her. Yeah.

[Matt Walsh]

Grandpa doesn't know these things. Sorry, I apologize to your fans.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Right. No, but yeah. So Bernie Madoff did this whole Ponzi scheme, and he did it for at least 17 years, possibly longer. So he was born April 29 in 1938 in Queens, New York. New York is such a beautiful place for scams. I would call New York, like, specifically Brooklyn, the silicone valley of scamming. Like, that's where all the innovation happens.

[Matt Walsh]

That's where the newest high immigrant class, too, sort of. Yeah. Scam knowledge is coming out in the old world.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

And I love an old world scam. I love an old world wine, and I love an old world scam. Yeah, an old fashioned grift still gets me. So he used $5,000 he earned from lifeguarding and installing sprinkler systems to found his investment company. This man is a genius. Madoff borrowed an additional $50,000 from his in laws, which, like yalls in laws just be having $50,000. Like, I ain't ever borrowed $50,000. Body like, you know what I mean? Privilege. And. Oh, and this is his in law. So he also means he married a woman with a bag. Like, who knows? He might have married his wife. Like, oh, you, your family got some coin? Okay, we gonna. We're gonna get married. Because obviously Bernie's family ain't have no coin. He was installing sprinkler systems and lifeguarding, so he had to marry up. So he married him with a real baddie. And he and Ruth founded an investment firm called Bernard L. Madoff Investment securities llc. Where is Ruth's name in this? She didn't brought all the money into this. And it's literally called Bernard L. Like, where my name at? It should be Ruth and Bernard. Bernard and Ruth.

[Matt Walsh]

Right. If that was a cancer center, it would be Ruth and Bernard.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Right. It should be Bernard and Ruth's Money llc. Like, I want to be involved. So by the end of the 1980s, his firm was handling more than 5% of the trade volume in the New York Stock Exchange, which is huge.

[Matt Walsh]

That's banana.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

That's insane.

[Matt Walsh]

That's bananas. Five percent for one. One firm. That's crazy.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Yeah. So he had gotten his hands in everybody's pocket, and this is like the 1980s. So he's probably like in his 40s at this point. Yeah. So Bernie Employed his brother Peter. He employed his daughter Shana Madoff, and his sons Andrew and Mark. When Bernie Madoff started, basically, he was flying under the radar because he was falsifying SEC reports. And this is something that I thought was very funny. And how he falses, like, falsifies documents. So they would put documents in the fridge. Because sometimes. Sometimes the SEC would pop up on you. Like, they just pull up like. Like the health inspectors. Like, hey, y', all, we here. Let us see them docs. You know what I mean? Like, bust them docs out.

[Matt Walsh]

They can just do that. Surprise, audit.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Surprise. Let me get them docs.

[Matt Walsh]

Got it.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

So they would pull up and surprise. And they would quickly start falsifying documents. And because they were printing them out fresh, they would be warm. So they would put them in the fridge so that they would cool down before they gave them to the FC or whatever.

[Matt Walsh]

Yeah. Wow, that's smart. So they were up all night cooking the books.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Literally.

[Matt Walsh]

Literally cooking the books.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

And then they had to cool the books down.

[Matt Walsh]

Wow.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Cause they were hot.

[Matt Walsh]

And that's back when the books were on paper.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Now the books are not exactly. Now they're so digital, so you can't really do that. But back when you literally were cooking books, the books would be too hot. Hot to the church.

[Matt Walsh]

Somebody told me there was a story about these soldiers new in Israel. They knew when the British guys were coming because they'd say, let us know when you're coming. Cause we'll have the beer cold. But they were, like, making bullets in the basement of the place that they.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Yeah, y', all wait till we had a beer. Nice and cold for y' all want some burgers? Y' all want pretzels? We know y' all love pretzels.

[Matt Walsh]

Just tell us so you're coming by Friday. Got it. Beer will be cold.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Tight. Thank you. And bullets will be hot. Yeah, that's very funny. Yeah, you can, like, bait people like that. But this apparently worked. Like, they would just be refrigerating the books and they'd come out. I'm like, aren't the books cold then? Are they too cold? They're like, we keep it cold in our office. No women work here, you know, Men love cold offices. That's the patriarchy cold comedy rooms, too, right? So he started his own market maker firm in 1960 and helped launch Nasdaq Stark Market, which feels like a. A conflict of interest. Like, how can you help someone launch the NASDAQ when you're, like, holding 5% of the share? Okay, so he sat on the board of the national association of Security Dealers and advised the Security and Exchange Commission on trading securities. So the scammer was advising the organization.

[Matt Walsh]

Was he now already scamming?

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Oh, he had been scamming.

[Matt Walsh]

He's been scamming the whole way in.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Yes. So this is like later in his career. This is like when he's.

[Matt Walsh]

How many years into scamming is he at this point? Would you. You guess, being crooked, let's say.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Honestly, I think he was crooked from the time he started installing those water sprinklers. I bet you Bernie can't swim. And he was a lifeguard that just never got in the water. He probably just putting a little sunscreen on his nose. I bet you never saved a life. And I bet you that whoever got their sprinkler systems installed by Bernie, that.

[Matt Walsh]

Grass died or they were burned in a fire. And those sprinklers were supposed to put out that fire, right?

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Oh, Lord Jesus. Then it's like, this is our Bernie Madoff edition. The smoke alarm didn't go off. Bernie didn't install the sprinklers right. Then the dad died. I love that show. That show is a scam. I've never seen somebody scam a death harder than this is Us.

[Matt Walsh]

I don't watch that one. I'm sorry.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Oh, okay. So I don't watch.

[Matt Walsh]

It's very emotional, right?

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Yeah. And I'm like, who wants to cry every Tuesday at 9? Like, this is too much.

[Matt Walsh]

It is a lot, right?

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Like, I can't have a scheduled cry every week. But the scam is on. That show is like, the dad dies. And that's like, something that is not a spoiler. But how the scam works is the dad is like a series regular on the show. Like, the dad works every night on the damn show because they do all these flashbacks. And the flashbacks be like, oh, man. Here are some clothes from the dad dying that we gotta take home from the police department. So sad. The next episode is like, it's my birthday, but my daddy dead. They use the death in, like, every sad moment of a death, which is real in real life. Like, it's not ever just the funeral. It's always like, little tiny moments afterwards. But I've never seen somebody milk a death so hard. They'd be like, that's the smoke detector that didn't go off, and that's why the dad died.

[Matt Walsh]

Like, zoom in on it and that'll go throughout. How many seasons now is it?

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

It's been years. Couple seasons of Just that. Yeah. And it works every single time.

[Matt Walsh]

Has a dad appeared in flashback?

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Oh, hell yeah. Hell yeah. He all over them flashbacks and like sometimes the dad be dead and it'll be like they sneak attack you with it. Like they go into the grocery store and it's like, the dad loved this meat. You gotta get sad again. I'm like, damn. So I personally don't watch this, but the episodes that I have seen, I was like, this is too much. How y' all gonna milk a death for 10 seasons? You know what I mean? That's a lot. They haven't killed anybody else that I know of. No. Maybe they killed the other dad now. Fresh dad, new dad to be sad about. I don't watch the show. People are gonna really kick my ass. Have opinions about things that I like.

[Matt Walsh]

You going to get in trouble.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

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[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

All the restaurants are in real danger and whatever it is, it's closing in. It started with just a few lost hairs here and there, but now more and more of us are disappearing every day. But listen, we think we have a plan. A way to stop the shedding. Pantene abundant and strong. Go now. It's not too late. Pantene abundant and Strong. It's a three step system that reduces hair loss by 85%. Only the strongest will survive the shedding and fraud. So Madoff claimed to use the investment strategy called split STR conversion, which is an actual trading strategy. But instead he simply deposited clients funds into a single Chase bank account that he used to pay existed clients who wanted to cash out. So this is what we talked about when we explained Ponzi got it. So federal prosecutors said Chase should have known it would being used to commit fraud. And they charged the bank with two felony counts for failing to maintain adequate controls. Do you think Chase knew and just was like there's billions of dollars in our bank. Like who gives a fuck?

[Matt Walsh]

I was more going to. Why are you? That's like you're, you're constantly, you constantly need new income to keep the secret from getting out.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Yeah.

[Matt Walsh]

So you're constantly hustling and raising more capital to give to people because you're also building this lifestyle. Right. I'm sure you had tons of opulence, real estate and. Yeah, yeah. I don't know.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

You're tired just thinking about doing the scam.

[Matt Walsh]

Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Kind of like when you're a career scammer, this is your profession. So staying ahead of your scam is your full time job. You know what I mean? You gotta have lots of refrigerators for cooling papers gotta have.

[Matt Walsh]

Right, right. Like he didn't deliver the newspapers. When he had the paper out, he would just dump them in the empty lot.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Oh for sure.

[Matt Walsh]

He would never throw them out.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

No one was getting the newspaper. Absolutely not. So he's having a struggle to keep up with this scam. And I think that that's an amazing profession. Like your whole job is just staying ahead lies and schemes. The only thing that's bad is the stress that comes with that because if you lose your job, you can just go get another job. You know what I mean? But like if your scam falls apart, you going to jail. So that's like a lot of pressure. But I feel like that's also the pressure that CEOs feel, but I don't think they.

[Matt Walsh]

I don't think he thinks about jail, has no fear. Like, to him it's only about raising capital to keep the lie quiet. And it's bananas. I don't know. Like, seems like singular focus. Like, because it's such. It's so woven into the fabric of your life. Like, are any moments where he seemingly was having joy with someone, is he distracted by the.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

I think you're getting high on it. I think that part of this reason scams are so fun is because it is.

[Matt Walsh]

You're pulling it off.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Yeah. And so I think that he's probably having the time of his life.

[Matt Walsh]

Thank you for explaining this stuff. This is helpful. I really understand.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

And also, I feel like when you're a career scammer, you don't look at your scam as a scam anymore. It's a profession to you. Because truly everything is a scam.

[Matt Walsh]

You hold it with respect. Almost like, this is what I do.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Like, the Parking Authority is a scam organization. Like, you just gonna make me give you money because I put my car somewhere you told me not to. Like, that's a scam. That's not a real organization. You know what I mean?

[Matt Walsh]

And so that is a real. But that is a real organization.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Yeah, because we said so. We could stop saying so, and then it no longer would be.

[Matt Walsh]

But then everything's a scam, right?

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Yes, everything is a scam. So that's.

[Matt Walsh]

No, but scam implies the word. My connotation for the word scam implies some criminality or some hoodwinkery where someone is being duped out of something that they're not completely aw aware of. Like, you can get a. If you give someone a shitty loan, that's a scam. Scamming them. But like, if I give you a loan, that's like 2%. Let's say it's 2%. It's not. It's not great. But it's sort of what the real market is and you sort of are able to pay it. I'm not in the business. Even though I respect the concept of money and digital transfers, like, that's a scam. But like, in that context, isn't that like a real thing and not a scam? Nah, it's a scam.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Cause think about it. I give $93 to the parking authority. What does that $93 go? I don't know. I still got potholes.

[Matt Walsh]

Well, the money probably goes.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Where'd it go?

[Matt Walsh]

The money probably goes to some City account.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

But we don't know, and truly, we don't know what they're doing with it. But because it's a scam. You give the DMV 400 every year for what? To verify your plates that were already verified. What they doing with that? Money. Money making more of those little paper things that you pull out with the numbers on them. It's all a scam. So I just think that certain scams we've all accepted are rules. Laws are a scam. You know what I mean? Like, there were laws that said that I couldn't be in here with you, Matt. Scam, scam, laws, laws. Locked up a lot of black people for selling weed, and now we got weed, Apple stores. So it's like, I understand that you could feel like what you're doing is actually legitimate and also maybe helping people, because technically what he's doing is just like, if you need some money, I took some money from over here and I gave it to you. If you need some money, I did the same. The only issue was, is that in 2008, the housing market plummeted, and that affected everybody. So that's.

[Matt Walsh]

And everybody needed their money, and Bernie never had the money.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

So really, it's George Bush's fault that Bernie Sanders went to jail.

[Matt Walsh]

Bernie Sanders.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Bernie Sanders.

[Matt Walsh]

They look alike. Come on. Old white man.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Old white man named Bernie that Bernie Madoff went to jail, technically, really Bill Clinton's fault, because Bill Clinton is who deregulated the banking industry, and that's how we got here with this whole thing. Anyway, so getting caught, Bernie employed his brother Peter, Peter's daughter Shana Manoff, and his two sons, Eric and Mark, which I talked about earlier. So he kept it in the family. He kept it close. Because basically, Bernie probably got, like, the Trump.

[Matt Walsh]

Like Trump's criminality. He keeps it in the family. He travels with his circus of criminals.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

And we should always know that you're looking at a scam when they're surrounded by their family, because those are people that they have won, like, spat out and made and manipulated for their entire life. So those are the people that they can trust the most.

[Matt Walsh]

Good soldiers.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

I feel like Bernie was probably running, like, the white empire, like, every day. Like, his family was having drama and, like, oh, who's gonna steal the company? Like, that's what I love about the show empire is that they have no research assistant, so they had to keep everything very vague and just say the company, because they don't have any actual insight into what happens in business. So they're just like, I saw Fred out back. He was trying to steal the company. Him and Tim went to dinner last night. I think they were talking about the company. I love it. It's so vague. So I feel like Bernie's family, there probably was so much drama and so many things I want to know about. I'm sure that there's a movie there.

[Matt Walsh]

I caught some of the. The Robert De Niro portrayal of him on the. I think they did like a miniseries of Bernie Madoff. And the way he was playing him, I only saw like one of the episodes. It's a couple. But he was playing him sort of like this guy who was organizing his son's wedding and like freaking out about the china and barking at the help. But that was like one piece of the story that I happened to look into. So I guess if you're super wealthy and like you get to be live like a king, then you get to be an asshole about your. Your collections of things, your cars, your homes, your. Your spas, your vacations, your hotel rooms. Like, I bet they take great delight in like shitting on people. Oh, I'm sure that don't give them exactly what they want.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Right. And also being rich is, I'm sure, very exhausting because living opulently is a lot of work. Work, you know, I mean, you can't just call an Uber. You have to have your car service and like you have to hire people to maintain your richness. So Bernie confessed to his sons who work at his firm that he and they claim they were not aware of the scheme. They said he confessed. Hey, guys, I've been running a Ponzi scheme. He was like, mark, Andrew, get in here. Hey guys, I've been running the Ponzi scheme. And they were like, what? All this money that came out of nowhere, not legitimate. This is what they claim. So Andrew turns his father in the next day. Which I was like, what? Like, you drop dime on your daddy? I'm so confused.

[Matt Walsh]

Well, that makes me think that it's real. That, that, that their awareness or at least that would make me think that. Oh my God. That that is an argument for it probably was dropped the day before.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Like, sounds made up to me.

[Matt Walsh]

It does.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Like, first of all, there's no way in hell that they didn't know that their dad was doing crime. They were too close to the crimes. They definitely knew that this was a crime. I feel like he was about to get in trouble. So they dropped dime on him. But he kept his family and his wife out of it. They had to have known. There's a link of Andrew Madoff talking about turning his father in.

[Matt Walsh]

We knew that we couldn't live with this information and not do something about it. And we knew we needed to speak to an attorney and we knew that that was going to lead to us turning him in, but we didn't know how to do that. You know, knowing the right thing to do and then knowing how to do it are two totally different things. And we needed help. You so think he's lying his head off?

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Absolutely. First of all, what you mean you don't know how to snitch?

[Matt Walsh]

I feel like a goody two shoes or something. I kind of believe that.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Oh, I don't believe that guy at all. First of all, snitching is easy. Look at Takashi. He's snitching on people that he like, we didn't even ask for. He's snitching on everybody. He's like also somebody double parked outside so let me get a license plate. Like he snitched on everybody. Snitching is easy. You just go down to the police house. House. That's what I call it.

[Matt Walsh]

Precinct.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Yeah, you go down to the police house, the precinct as you call it, that police house works and you drop dime on your dad. Like it's very easy. I think that they went to a lawyer cuz they were like we are heavily implicated in this and how do we snitch?

[Matt Walsh]

In a way advised by their lawyer.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Yeah, exactly.

[Matt Walsh]

We didn't know how to do this.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Also it was going to come out because after the market collapsed people wanted their money. And when people ask for their money and you say I don't have it, people are going to start looking like h probably a crime.

[Matt Walsh]

So, so there's no. So just let me just start interrupt you but there's no world where you believe that these kids who are inside the business and the brother, like I feel like the brother might have known but I feel like the kids who like grew up when their dad before he started the NASDAQ and like they weren't even in the business yet. There's no world where he could have kept because he obviously fooled the world. His father was fooling the world for 17 years that we know of, of the, the insanity that was built upon, you know, imminent collapse at any given moment. There's no world where those kids certainly in this moment especially could be truthfully saying like we didn't know that it was this deep, that it was this huge.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Absolutely not. Absolutely not. They're too close to it. You don't work for a company and not know that the company is a scam. You just don't. Like I worked for so many companies.

[Matt Walsh]

Yeah, you're probably right. It's financials too. You're right.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Yeah. And I figured out scams at every company I've worked at. I used to, man, I used to wait tables and I learned the manager's codes and then I would just do all the manager's job for them because they'd be drunk and coked out. This was in the Hamptons. So I became the manager and I could have literally been stealing money. I wasn't, cuz I'm not a thief. But I had all the codes. Like if there's a scam to be had, people will figure it out.

[Matt Walsh]

Right, right.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

It's just human nature. Like if something is weird or flawed, you're kind of like, hmm, this isn't adding up. Like they definitely knew. Definitely. I would put money on it.

[Matt Walsh]

Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

And I think that that's why they went to talk to lawyers beforehand, because they had to figure out what was gonna be like, what they should actually say and what they shouldn't say.

[Matt Walsh]

Well, they're rich people too. They're always gonna bring a lawyer with them at this point in their lives.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Right, Right.

[Matt Walsh]

Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

But I think the reason that Bernie Madoff had them drop dive on him is because he wanted to absolve his family from any guilt. He probably didn't want to take down his family with him, him. So he had them all pretend that they didn't know, but they knew. So we knew. We couldn't live with this information and not do something about it. That's what Andrew Madoff said. And poor Andrew, he died of lymphoma. And I find like stress, like, you know how like Everybody in the O.J. case, like died of like cancer. It's like, you know what I mean? Will you be real stressed out?

[Matt Walsh]

Evil manifests itself and stress about evil gives you cancer.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Well, I think you have to be somebody who cares to stress.

[Matt Walsh]

You know what I mean?

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Like Donald Trump live forever because somebody doesn't.

[Matt Walsh]

He has no guilt.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Yeah. So. So I think you have to. If you have guilt or stress like that, you know, manifests. So it says that's, that's what Andrew Madoff said of Bernard Madoff when he was talking about his decision to go to the FBI. You know, he couldn't live with it anymore. He admitted to investigators that he had lost $50 billion of his investments or his investors money. Bernie Madoff has always claimed he acted alone, but federal prosecutors thought that that couldn't possibly be true. And so did I. Doing so would require testimony from a True Insider. Frank DePascali fit the bill perfectly. So Frank De Pascali was Ban Madoff's chief financial officer and right hand man. So this man definitely knew about the scandal. He pleaded guilty to 10 felony counts in 2009 and proceeded to sing like a canary. DePasqual told stories including he was basically like the white collar Tekashi 69. He told him that he they would produce stacks of false records for SEC examiners.

[Matt Walsh]

And then he told them put them in the cold.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Told him about the refrigerated trick, which I think is an excellent trick. I don't know if we had to start reviewing that.

[Matt Walsh]

Yeah, that's like counterfeit. Like counterfeiters probably do. If you gotta use the money fast, you gotta cool it off.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Cool it real quick.

[Matt Walsh]

Print that money and cool it off. We need to use it today.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Right? He also. We like, why are these bills hot? It was real hot in my car. He also recounted how he and the other officers tossed the stack around the office like a football to make it appear to be worn. So they would. They would take the books and throw them back and forth at each other. Like, yeah, yeah, these are real old books. I'm like, well, did you put it in the oven? Try to make it turn brown a little bit? Like how old the book's supposed to look by the time you get them, they're like, look like they were written in the 1960s or not even. Like, I don't know. It's. This is insane. So they would throw this around the office like a football. But the faced up to 125 years in prison for his own crimes. But he died of lung cancer in 2015, four months before his schedule sentence. Sing.

[Matt Walsh]

Wow.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

I think that's a great way to go out. You know what I mean? You die before you go.

[Matt Walsh]

He got lucky. Only thing good about his dying.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Yeah.

[Matt Walsh]

He didn't have to go to jail.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Right.

[Matt Walsh]

Wow.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Also, it's insane that he was gonna face 125 years for stealing people's money. That feels excessive.

[Matt Walsh]

Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

That's too long. Like money stealing, now murder. But I know people are murdering people who are getting way less time. That's gonna crazy.

[Matt Walsh]

Yeah. These kids totally knew.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Absolutely.

[Matt Walsh]

Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

They were probably throwing. Because if you see like the office.

[Matt Walsh]

You see your chief financial officer hucking back and forth. A big old Library sized accounting register for the year. You're like, what?

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

What?

[Matt Walsh]

What do we do here?

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

What is Fred doing? Why do we have to throw the books around before the end?

[Matt Walsh]

Pascal, why do we put the annual reports in the refrigerator?

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Yo, who took my beef stroganoff out the fridge? The fridge is just full of paperwork now, man. It's expired. Y' all have fish. I know y' all don't like when I heat up the fish in the office, but damn, like, there's no way. You walk around this office and people are doing this crazy. I watched the Wolf of Wall street and I thought, like, offices probably were pretty insane, you know, before, like, HR and like, regulations and rules. So I'm sure people were doing some wild in the office plays.

[Matt Walsh]

Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

So maybe you could pass it.

[Matt Walsh]

I don't know. Or was there ever, like, a legit. Like, does someone like that have, like a legit art store? Just randomly say no, like, for real, like, it's just its own company. I don't know anything about Bernie Madoff. I do sort of, but not really what he owned. Did he have businesses that just were their own thing that, like, you would give Fredo a restaurant in the mafia family, Right? You give Fredo the restaurant, let Fredo run the restaurant.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Let him.

[Matt Walsh]

Let him end his days managing the restaurant.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Yeah, I get what you're saying. He might have had some legitimate businesses up front.

[Matt Walsh]

Sort of, yeah.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

But I feel like it's weird to have all your kids work for you and not have them working close to you, because those are the people you can probably trust the most. Like, look at Fred DePiscali. He done told all the secrets. He didn't talk about the fridge, about the SEC catch. Like, he told everything.

[Matt Walsh]

So what happened to the kids? Did they get prosecuted?

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

So they did not get prosecuted.

[Matt Walsh]

What?

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

December 11, 2008, Madoff is arrested on one count of securities fraud. Then he's released on a $10 million bail. December17, Madoff is placed on house arrest, which, like, when you live in a mansion, what is house arrest? That sounds so nice. March 12, 2009, Madoff pleads guilty to 11 felony charges, including money laundering, perjury, false filings with the sec, and fraud. There is no deal with the government associated with the guilty police. So he didn't even get the hookup because, like, when you're the ringleader, we don't need anything. Right. We're looking for you. Other people would get a deal, but not you.

[Matt Walsh]

Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

So March 20, 2000, an appeal court rules that Madoff will remain in jail until sentencing April 1, which is real trash. Like he had to like, stay in jail. That's wild. He's pretty old, too. Federal marshals seized Madoff's yacht, a smaller boat, and one of his homes in Florida as court ordered seizures of the financiers assets start to begin. So now, now the government's just taking all this back. Now what happens when the government seizes something is it just goes to auction.

[Matt Walsh]

I would think they have to auction it because the government doesn't need a mansion in Palm Beach, Florida.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Right. I mean, now they probably would. Trump would use a mansion in Trump. You know what?

[Matt Walsh]

Mar A Lago Trump owns everything.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

That's so crazy. And you know what a scam is, is that he really has used the presidency. He shows up to people's weddings at Mar A Lago and like, does surprise photo ops with them and stuff. So people will book this place hoping that he's going to show up and be at their wedding.

[Matt Walsh]

That he's that low class, shitty of a person.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Yeah, like you are this current president of Maradu.

[Matt Walsh]

Let me, let me go say hi to the folks at the steakhouse. Come on.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Trump is a true scammer. Like, how you gonna be doing club appearances? You the president, go back to work, bruh. He literally does club appearances. I cannot take it. I feel like that was like, oh, and tonight, Donald Trump in battle service. Like, what?

[Matt Walsh]

We got a terrific new property in Tahiti I just want to tell you about.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Right?

[Matt Walsh]

He's like, no, he's never more happy than making a pitch for another way to make money for his family, real estate holdings, whatever.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Which is just. It's crazy that we just letting him get this money grab. Like, nobody's ever taken the presidency as a bigger money grab than Donald Trump. Yeah, he's getting in every way possible.

[Matt Walsh]

Yeah. And he's scamming constantly to keep it, keep it together. Maybe we'll get him.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

I mean, honestly, at some point I will have to do a Donald Trump scam goddess episode because he is a true scammer. Now I can't praise him because. Because he's a garbage human, but man, oh man, does he scam. April 1, 2009. Federal marshal seized the yacht, the smaller boat, all of these things. June 29, 2009. Madoff is sentenced to 150 years in prison. Copy that, July 14. Madoff arrives at Butner Federal Correction Complex in North Carolina to begin serving his sentence. And in October 2, 2009, a $199 million lawsuit filed against Madoff's son, his brother Pete Madoff, his niece, Shayna Madoff. So basically, the whole family, like, they pulled up at the family reunion. They're like, we're serving you. We're serving you. You are served. You are also served.

[Matt Walsh]

Like, was that a independent. Was that a government lawsuit or. Those were independent lawsuits.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

These are independent lawsuits.

[Matt Walsh]

So private citizens were suing them or Kevin Bacon, people like that.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Nobody puts Baby in a corner, jk. That's not Kevin Bacon. But, you know, they were served. Yeah, J. Yeah, Kevin Bacon got footloose on them hoes. You know what I mean? He was. Kevin Baker was probably at home dancing real aggressively outside in the rain. And, you know, because he got scammed by Bernie Madoff. So after he finished dancing by himself, he went and he filed a lawsuit. So Madoff's wife and high school sweetheart, Ruth. Ruth truly is the beginning of all these scams, because, remember, Bernie got that loan from Ruth's parents. Yeah.

[Matt Walsh]

Bernie married into money. Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

So Ruth was never implicated in her husband's crimes, even though I'm sure Ruth was back there. Season in them books, honey. Like, just giving them all types of flavor, you know? Them books probably taste like Old Bay. Books have never been cooked better. Like, oh, these books taste good. Like crime. So, you know, she was probably involved, but she agreed to forfeit $75 million in assets that were held in her name, including the couple's Upper east side apartment. Damn. Not the big apartment in the sky. The settlement with the federal prosecutors left her with $2.5 million, which she reportedly allows her to leave a comparatively modest life in old Greenwich, Connecticut.

[Matt Walsh]

She had more money than that. There was more money somewhere.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Hell, yeah. Come on, now. Islands, Ruth, islands. Everybody's keeping their money in islands, Right? I. I guarantee she has so, so much more money. She's probably a scammer, too. Look, scammers. No scammers. She married a scammer and stayed married to him for. For, like, 50, 60 years.

[Matt Walsh]

Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Dark facts. The family lost their fortune, friends, and reputation. Because that's the other thing is, like, now they can't even pull up to the yacht club no more. Well, one, the yacht's gone, right? So they can't pull up. But even if they walked up to the yacht club, everybody's gonna be whispering about them because they did, like, the most horrible thing you can do to other rich people. Which is?

[Matt Walsh]

Well, I think they tell them you're not a yacht member and you're not a yacht club member. That's what rich people would do. They would just kick them out.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

They would take away the membership, their privileges.

[Matt Walsh]

Yeah, the country club.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

And they would stop talking to them. They'd be like Paxton, Garson. What are Orson, you know, other rich names. Like, like we. We can't talk to you anymore, Mark. Andrew.

[Matt Walsh]

No, it's not even that. They don't. Rich people don't even talk to each other. They just like get out of their car and go to their locker and then they play golf by themselves and then they get back in their car.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Car. That's it.

[Matt Walsh]

I don't think back in country club life. Yeah. Doesn't.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

It's not that nice. Are you a country club member?

[Matt Walsh]

I'm not. My dad was when. When we were kids, briefly.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

My dad was too.

[Matt Walsh]

Yeah, I like golf, but country club life I don't necessarily like at all.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

I liked it, but I didn't like the nicer ones. It's all cuz the nicer ones didn't have golf carts. Cuz that's like not a thing at nice golf clubs. And I was like, I'm not about to actually physically caddy for you. This is slavery. I'm not doing this. I was like, when you had the cart, it was cute. I would drive around, around that was lit. But now Carrie. No, no, no, no. But so I guess you're right. So. Yeah, it's like Langston and Orson just don't talk to them anymore.

[Matt Walsh]

Yeah. I'm.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

I'm sure they walk into a room and then it just fills with whispers.

[Matt Walsh]

I wonder if like it's interesting because they're all at the same private schools too.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Yeah. Kids are so like really ruin their.

[Matt Walsh]

Lives to cancer on the. Well, healthy culture.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

And then 2010, Mark, the eldest son, unfortunately committed suicide on the second anniversary of his father's arrest.

[Matt Walsh]

So he went first or lymphoma son went first.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

He went first. And then Andrew died of lymphoma September 3, 2014.

[Matt Walsh]

Oh.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

So, yeah, it was a rough time for the kids afterwards. And like I said, Bernie had many high profile victims, including director Steven Spielberg, actors Kevin Bacon, Kyra Sedgwick, and the New York Mets owner Fred Wilp.

[Matt Walsh]

Punk.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Which I feel like when you start getting famous, people involved, like, it's just. It's a rap. 2008, Madoff controlled billions of investments. In 2013, he earned $40 per month doing prison labor. Talk about a pay cut.

[Matt Walsh]

And is he still with us? Yes, he's still in Carolina.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Yeah.

[Matt Walsh]

Wow.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

And it says that 16,519 investors have filed claims against Madam. Now, I think that if you.

[Matt Walsh]

Well, shouldn't the government liquidate that mansion and create a fund for victims?

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

I feel like that's not.

[Matt Walsh]

Government works. They don't do that. They'll just turn it. They'll just sell it to Wells Fargo.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

There's never any restitution. And I always think that's fucked about. The government, too, is like, I don't think that Felicity Huffman should have gone to jail for two weeks for, you know, trying to scam the college thing. I think she should have paid half a million dollars, and it should have been a scholarship for underprivileged students who need that money. Like, what. What do we get out of seeing a beautiful white lady go to jail? What do we get out of.

[Matt Walsh]

That creates the. The myth that even rich people have to pay.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

But it's not even paying. That's not even equal was having these damn meetings, talking about, well, you know, I'm just spending time with my family before I go away. I'm like. Which I know you probably went away longer shooting one of them TV shows, sis. Like, you going away for two weeks. Two weeks.

[Matt Walsh]

Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

And like, there are black people in jail way longer for doing the same thing. But I don't know, it's just. I'm just like. I feel like there's a different way that could actually be restorative justice than us just putting you in jail for show.

[Matt Walsh]

So if you had. Had. Say, they liquidated $500 million worth of assets. That's not. I don't know. Those people have art and stuff where what would you. You would just create a fund for. What would you do?

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

See, that's the hard part, because then it's like all these people are owed money from Bernie, so I guess the money should go to them. I don't know how this works. But also, like, if you're one of 16,000 people who got ripped off by Bernie, Mad, I think you got charges to the gift game. I don't know if you gonna get that money back. I think you really just gotta charge it to the game, especially the people with lower amounts of money that. Look, I gave Bernie $1,000 in 2002, and when I'm gonna get it back. No, ma', am, we're not. We're not gonna give you back your money. Let it go.

[Matt Walsh]

House. House wins. House wins.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Yeah. Yeah, Exactly. Like Atlantic City. Y' all gonna have to get out here and get your banana hammocks. Or if you classy Like Matt is you going down to the Ritz Carlton and you sit at the bar.

[Matt Walsh]

Atlantic City has whatever.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

The nicest, I don't know, the nicest thing in Atlanta. A Cheesecake Factory.

[Matt Walsh]

No, you gotta go to the bar. That's Four Seasons.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Like, okay.

[Matt Walsh]

Do you know what I mean? If you're gonna.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

So like a. A Continental Marriott.

[Matt Walsh]

Is that a nice one? Yeah, those are decent.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

The Hilton Garden.

[Matt Walsh]

No, that's low. That's too low. That's too low. I mean, Four Seasons would be the minimum. Mandarin.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Do they.

[Matt Walsh]

I'd hang out at the Mandarin of.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Four Seasons in Atlanta.

[Matt Walsh]

I don't know.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Okay, they have a Mandarin though, right?

[Matt Walsh]

They probably do, right? Yeah, those are nice.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

So you go, you put on your nicest banana hammock and bow tie. You can go make long eye contact with people at the bar. Okay? That's the only way you can get your money back. And Bernie made off because he made off with it. We've reached our last segment of the show.

[Matt Walsh]

Uh.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Oh, yes, sorry, Scammer of the week. And this is just a segment where I highlight a infamous scammer or, you know, maybe a little known scammer who I just really think is worthy of our praise. So this week's scammer of the week is 18 year old Isaiah Atkins, who became a fake state senator to give paid speeches at high schools. Adkins claimed to be newly elected state senator who had been appointed to replace Republican senator Dave Burke. He has since been charged with telecommunications fraud and impersonation of a peace officer. When Atkins showed up to school, he said he was there to fill. He said he was there to fill in for Burke as a guest speaker for a social studies class at Mohawk High School. Atkins pulled up to the small town high school in northern Ohio with a driver's and two aides.

[Matt Walsh]

So to pose as a senator or congressman.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

To pose as a senator.

[Matt Walsh]

As a senator. State senator, yes. Not a federal. Not a federal state senator. Okay.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

And what I love about this is like, you know, people don't read. People don't know that much about their politics, especially if we're talking local, you know what I mean? And also I love that this is a scam with props. I love props. And he came with a driver, an.

[Matt Walsh]

Ensemble, like a posse of actors.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Yeah. If he had come by himself, I would be like, this is bizarre. I don't believe you. But if you come with three other hired actors, I don't know.

[Matt Walsh]

Aids, aids.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

I'm believing it. Get them, get them a little wired. Earpiece. I'm into it.

[Matt Walsh]

Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

You know you can get that at Radio Shack. So many fraud utensils you can buy at Radio Shack and also at Staples. They're necessary. And Kinko's. These are necessary places for fraudsters. I'm sure anytime you step in one of those stores, just know somebody's in there buying things for crime.

[Matt Walsh]

Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Just know. So. So. Kit. Ken Radcliffe, the superintendent for the school, said in the statement, the presentation, although not polished, was one that someone might expect from a young, inexperienced, newly appointed senator. The real Sen. Had planned to speak in mid January, but a US government teacher at the school received a call from 18 year old Atkins, who allegedly claimed that Burke had become ill and resigned. So, and this is like present day. I'm trying to find the year that this happened. Cody, can you grab me the year that this happened? Because I truly need to understand why somebody called you and told you that the senator was ill and.

[Matt Walsh]

And could not resigned. Senator was ill and resigned. So now.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

So he called her and was like, hey, what's up? It's me, Isaiah. I'm calling because Senator Burke actually, you know, he got a bad call and he decided to quit. Senator ring. So I'm going to be filling in for him. I. What? This lie doesn't even sound that plausible. What? They. What the hell? So at Atkins had been named the senator's replacement. Because that's how senators work. They just get a replacement pro tem. So he said he would visit in Burke's place, but needed to move up the date. Now I need you to also realize that this is a US government teacher. That he called and told the teacher that the senator was sick and he was gonna be the replacement senator. Cuz that's how government works. You are a US government teacher, sis. She needs to be fired. Frankly, she's the one who needs to be facing some charges.

[Matt Walsh]

She didn't stiff it out.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

You're teaching kids about US government and literally somebody called you and told you the most.

[Matt Walsh]

She should have sniffed it out there.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Yeah, I don't even think she should have sniffed. That's right in your face.

[Matt Walsh]

Yeah, I agree.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

He could have basically just called and be like, hey, I'm lying. Hey, I'm about to tell you some lies real quick. You cool? Administer said that Senator Atkins arrived Dec. 15 and showed his real identification and gave a presentation. Why did he want to do this so badly?

[Matt Walsh]

Was he getting paid or.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

No, he must have been getting paid.

[Matt Walsh]

No, Senator can't get paid. Maybe, probably not. So just to Pose as a senator, I guess.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

So when the real Senator Burke showed up for his scheduled presentation January 14, school administrators and students discovered that they had been duped. He must have been getting paid.

[Matt Walsh]

So it came and went.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Yeah.

[Matt Walsh]

So days later, the real senator showed up.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

And he's 18 years old also. So he's an 18 year old senator. Says he. So when Atkins said that his intention was to expose security risks in small town schools. These, these.

[Matt Walsh]

Come on.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

He said these country schools think it can't happen to them. I was duping to prove a point that these kinds of things can happen. They could have easily googled me. And they did it. Authorities said Atkins was arrested after they were alerted of the incident by the state Senate. Burke, the real senator, called it an extremely elaborate scheme. I'm saying that too. Like, what did you get out of this? He.

[Matt Walsh]

So I guess my question is when he's. He's saying I'm proving a point. That security at small town schools isn't tight. Yeah, but what a baloney excuse. Or is that really. It does explain does, but it's also.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Like, how did you get these other two people to come play aids in this car? Like, what is wrong with you?

[Matt Walsh]

That is true.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

This is a weird thing to do. It's like, hey, y', all, do y' all want to come drive me down to this country school? Yeah, it's about seven miles. It's about seven hours away. Look, country school. And then y' all be pretending to be my aides. Why? Why?

[Matt Walsh]

Yeah, and I gotta. It's also stupidity on the inside too, because. Because like, there's got to been some follow up calls when that second senator showed up. Like, the front office is, okay, I'm coming by Friday, don't forget. And then he shows up. And that's when they sniffed out they'd been scammed. But not until then. Like, whoever's getting those calls to schedule these events. Do you know what I mean? There's two senators scheduling events at this school, right?

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

You don't have a calendar.

[Matt Walsh]

You weren't like, oh, reception or whatever. Like, it's a school. So it's like, I'm Senator One. I'd like to do it on December 14th. Great. Senator. Okay, make sure we'll call back a week before. Or not. Second senator also talking, same person. Hey, just Want to know December 20th is still on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you know what I mean?

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Yeah. You are the senator with a different name. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. Look, teachers are underpaid and overworked, okay? They were just like, I don't know.

[Matt Walsh]

Sure, sure.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

You're both the senator. Who cares who gets shit?

[Matt Walsh]

I got kids screaming.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Right? We just want to break from the kids. You got to watch them for 30 minutes while you give them this speech.

[Matt Walsh]

That's true.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Like, I just need a smoke break. I don't care. I don't care who comes in here. I'm the senator. We're all the senator. Who gives a fuck? I love it. So shout out to Isaiah. I don't understand this scam, but I appreciate your dedication to pulling it off, truly. All right, guys, we've reached the end of the episode. I can't believe it.

[Matt Walsh]

Wow. Time flu.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

You were amazing.

[Matt Walsh]

Did I do do good?

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

You did fantastic. Fantastic.

[Matt Walsh]

I just want to make greatest hits.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

I just want to make greatest of greatest. This is like now, season two.

[Matt Walsh]

Season one. Are we season one?

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

We're still season one right now.

[Matt Walsh]

Season one.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

This will be like the now of SK Now. That's what I'm talking about. Scams. And then like number one song mat wash. Got it. Yes. Where do you want to be found? I asked people where they want to be found.

[Matt Walsh]

I guess I have an Instagram. I do. Mr. Matt Walsh.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Mr. Matt.

[Matt Walsh]

That's pretty simple. Yeah, I occasionally do it. Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Yes. Okay. Any shows, Anything you want to plug.

[Matt Walsh]

Okay. February 2020. I'm working with Scripps and we're dropping Finding Marcus Tron, which is a six or seven part podcast series miniseries about a documentary filmmaker.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Yes.

[Matt Walsh]

Whose archive was discovered later in life. Like he was no longer around.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

It's very funny.

[Matt Walsh]

I think it is.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

It's very funny. I can see pieces of it. It's super funny. Oh, good. And guys, you can always find me at D I V A L A C I Divalacy on all platforms. If you want to email in any scams that you've retired or times that you've been scammed, please share them with [e-mail] you can find us at scamgodesspod on Twitter, on Instagram and Bitcoin. All right, guys. Congregation segregation. Stay scheming.

[Matt Walsh]

Hey, I'm Paul Scheer.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

I'm June Diane Rayfield. And I'm Jason Manzoukis.

[Matt Walsh]

And we're the hosts of how did this Get Made? A comedy podcast where we deconstruct, make fun of, and celebrate the best worst movies ever made.

[Commercial Announcer]

Have you ever seen a movie that's so bad that it's actually good?

[Matt Walsh]

That's what we're talking about.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

From blockbuster franchises and made for TV.

[Matt Walsh]

Romances to bonkers 80s action flicks and obscure sci fi musicals, we cover it all.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

You can find. How did this get made? Wherever you get your podcast podcasts, and don't forget to follow the show so.

[Matt Walsh]

You never miss an episode.

[Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Idiot.

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