Fraud Friday: The Queen of Cons w/ Miranda Cosgrove & Nathan Kress

Summary

Scam Goddess Podcast Episode Summary

Episode Title: Fraud Friday: The Queen of Cons w/ Miranda Cosgrove & Nathan Kress
Release Date: January 17, 2025

Overview
In this engaging episode of Scam Goddess, host Laci Mosley is joined by special guests Miranda Cosgrove and Nathan Kress to delve into the fascinating world of cons and fraud. Titled "Fraud Friday: The Queen of Cons," the episode combines humor with in-depth discussions on both contemporary scams and historical fraud schemes, providing listeners with both entertainment and insightful analysis.

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Introduction of Guests

The episode opens with a light-hearted introduction of the guests, Miranda Cosgrove and Nathan Kress. Both former child models and actors known for their roles in popular TV shows like iCarly, they bring a relatable and humorous perspective to the conversation.

Notable Quotes:

• Laci Mosley [02:50]: "Is this good, girl? Is that y'all like that respond?"
• Miranda Cosgrove [03:00]: "I did some Kmart ads."

---

Personal Views on Scams

Laci, Miranda, and Nathan share their personal relationships with scams, revealing a mix of fascination and frustration. Laci expresses a "deep, dark, masochistic" interest in the creativity and confidence scammers possess, while Nathan emphasizes his support for "scamming up" (targeting corporations) versus harming individuals.

Notable Quotes:

• Laci Mosley [06:20]: "I have a very conflicting relationship with scams because I'm so fascinated by them."
• Nathan Kress [07:15]: "If you're scamming up, I love that. If you're harming people, though, I'm absolutely on your side."

---

"What's Hot and Fraud" Segment

In this segment, the hosts discuss current scam trends and share amusing anecdotes about fraudulent activities they've encountered or invented.

Student Fraud Story: Nathan recounts a clever scam orchestrated by a first grader who manipulated a classroom ticket system to win excessive prizes by erasing others' names and adding his own. This story highlights how even the youngest individuals can exhibit cunning behavior akin to seasoned scammers.

Notable Quotes:

• Nathan Kress [14:49]: "I don't know. It's giving Naomi Campbell. It's giving Miranda Kerr."
• Miranda Cosgrove [13:00]: "Mary Ellen."

---

"Historic Hoodwinks" Segment: The Story of Cassie Chadwick

The centerpiece of the episode is the detailed exploration of Cassie Chadwick, a notorious historical scammer from the early 1900s. Cassie, also known as Betty Bigley and Madame Maria Rosa, employed various aliases and sophisticated tactics to defraud banks and wealthy individuals, amassing over $32 million in today's currency.

Key Points:

• Multiple Identities: Cassie used half a dozen different names to reinvent herself and evade detection.
• Savvy Fraud Techniques: She pioneered check fraud by writing checks for amounts exceeding her purchases and requesting cash back, a tactic reminiscent of modern-day scams.
• Charismatic Deception: Cassie's confidence and charm allowed her to manipulate bankers and secure substantial loans without raising suspicion initially.
• Downfall: Despite her ingenious methods, Cassie's schemes eventually led to her conviction and imprisonment after defrauding the Citizen National Bank of Oberlin.

Notable Quotes:

• Laci Mosley [27:02]: "A woman named Cassie Chadwick... she had new names all the time, which I love. Reinvent yourself."
• Nathan Kress [31:19]: "She was definitely an innovator, a pioneer."
• Miranda Cosgrove [37:17]: "You're a rich lady."

---

"Scammer of the Week" Segment: Florida Man's Unclaimed Property Fraud

In the final segment, the hosts shift focus to a contemporary scam involving Alvaro Abiru, a Florida man charged with 114 counts of fraud. Alvaro exploited the state's unclaimed property system by using fake names and forged documents to wrongfully claim over $2 million in property.

Key Points:

• Methodology: Alvaro filed multiple claims using fictitious identities and deceived the system into releasing funds meant for genuinely unclaimed properties.
• Impact: His actions not only drained state resources but also highlighted vulnerabilities in unclaimed property programs that scammers can exploit.

Notable Quotes:

• Laci Mosley [78:20]: "He was born in the wrong time. He should have ended up with Cassie's daddy."
• Nathan Kress [78:32]: "So he would file claims and then deposit the money received into any of his many bank accounts for his fake companies."

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Conclusion

The episode wraps up with the hosts reflecting on the cunning nature of scammers, both historical and modern. They emphasize the importance of staying vigilant and informed to protect oneself from falling victim to such fraudulent schemes. Laci reminds listeners to "stay schemin'," encapsulating the podcast's blend of humor and insightful commentary on the world of scams.

Notable Quotes:

• Laci Mosley [88:35]: "Stay scheming."
• Nathan Kress [84:58]: "Stay Chadwicking. Bye Bye. Scam Goddess."

---

Takeaways:

• Scam Goddess effectively combines comedy with educational content, making the exploration of fraud intriguing and entertaining.
• Understanding historical scams like Cassie Chadwick's provides valuable lessons on the evolution of fraudulent tactics.
• Modern scams, such as the unclaimed property fraud, demonstrate that the art of deception remains as relevant as ever.

For those interested in the lighter side of true crime and the mechanics behind various cons, this episode offers a perfect blend of humor, storytelling, and critical analysis.

Transcript

[Lacey Mosley]

When it comes to live tv, Sling puts you in charge so you can pick the live sports, news and entertainment channels you actually want. You can Save hundreds on TV with Sling. Plus, pause your subscription when your QB has a season ending injury and still get 500 channels for free with Sling Freestream. Choose and customize your channel lineup or watch for free. Visit sling.com to learn more and get started. ABC Wednesdays. Tim Allen and Kat Dennings star in the new family comedy Shifting Gears.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

Dad, I'm broke and I need a place to stay until I figure out what the rest of my life looks like.

[Lacey Mosley]

So a couple of days when his daughter moves back in. The last time you walked out that door, you looked back at me and gave me a double bird.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

I was 18.

[Lacey Mosley]

The double bird was how I ended all our conversations. The wheels come off.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

Can we try to talk to each other like rational adults?

[Lacey Mosley]

Have you watched the news lately? That's not a thing anymore. New Wednesdays, 8, 7 Central on ABC and stream on Hulu.

[Nathan Kress]

What's poppin Congregation? It's YA girl, Lacey Mosley, AKA Scam Goddess. Welcome to an episode of Fraud Fridays where we release older episodes from the Scam Goddess vault. That's right, Fraud Fridays is where we bring back your favorite episodes from behind the Paywall. Enjoy this episode from behind the Paywall. And as always, stay scheming. Scams Ca. Scam. Ca. Robbery and fraud. Scam Goddess. What's poppin Congregation? It's your girl, Lacey Mosley, AKA Scam Goddess. And we're back with another installment of Scam Goddess, the podcast all about robbery, fraud, cons those who practice it. Sometimes we love them, sometimes we hate them. We will see. Y'all like this raspy voice. I'm trying to give y'all something different. Is this good girl? Is that y'all like that respond? Yeah, okay. You know, we got a parasocial relationship. Guys, I'm very. What? Yes. Very excited. I'm extremely excited. Guys, the scams continue. Finally, scams people that I've wanted on this podcast for a long time, and they're friends and their cast mates, and I'm gonna stop talking like this now. I'm sorry. That's all you get. When I was sick, y'all were saying that my voice was sexy, which was really fucked up of y'all, but I was trying to replicate it. Guys, today we have two amazing guests on the show. Our first guest is an actor, director, and former child model who currently plays.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

How did that get in there?

[Lacey Mosley]

Whoa, wait, hold on.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

Did you send that to her?

[Lacey Mosley]

I did not.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

Did you want that in there?

[Lacey Mosley]

This was not.

[Nathan Kress]

When I read it, I was like, okay, well, that's what you want.

[Lacey Mosley]

Nathan, I did one print ad for a yeast infection medication. Okay? That doesn't make me a model.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

A male model.

[Nathan Kress]

Former child. Male model.

[Lacey Mosley]

Finger painting in a stranger's lap for a yeast infection medication. That does not qualify me. I redact.

[Nathan Kress]

I don't know. It's giving Naomi Campbell. It's giving Miranda Kerr. I don't know. A former child model, and he currently plays Freddie Benson on icarly. Nathan Kress and our other amazing guests, my homie and actress, a producer, and plays Carly Shay on icarly. Miranda Kaz girl, a former child model.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

I did some Kmart ads.

[Nathan Kress]

I was about to say two former child models.

[Lacey Mosley]

That's right. That's right. We're both in the same boat.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

It's kind of sad, though. Cause we're not models now.

[Lacey Mosley]

Not even remotely.

[Nathan Kress]

I think that's what's disrespectful, is the child the worst child.

[Lacey Mosley]

You were cute and very photographable when you were a child. But as soon as you grew up.

[Nathan Kress]

Oh, we both lost it.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yep. We had the spark and it fizzled.

[Nathan Kress]

Two former child models down on their luck.

[Lacey Mosley]

Former child models had to settle for a TV show.

[Nathan Kress]

Congregation, please welcome Nathan Kress and Miranda Cosgrove to the show. You already know that here are the two former child models. The hottest babies you've ever seen.

[Lacey Mosley]

My bowl cut was on such point around that phase.

[Nathan Kress]

I'm just gonna say I believe it. I believe it. I've seen a lot of photos of you as a child. Both of you are in so many memes that are used to this day all the time. And it's very funny to me. The one. I'm sorry, Nathan. I'm sure you probably hate this meme.

[Lacey Mosley]

I do. I guarantee you I already know I do.

[Nathan Kress]

The one where Nathan's holding the camera as a child in the original icarly, you know, shooting. But they, like, edited it with Photoshop into the Kim K. Ray J sex date. So it looks like he's filming them.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

Like he was the one.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah, there's that. There's also me doing bin Laden, like, filming a bin Laden propaganda video. And then there's one where I'm on my laptop just studiously working, sitting at a table next to bin Laden.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

Why did he keep sticking you as bin Laden?

[Lacey Mosley]

I don't know. Who had it in their mind to assimilate Freddie Benson and Bin Laden, but I don't think Mrs. Benson would have allowed such a thing.

[Nathan Kress]

No, not as one where I'm with.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

Biggie Smalls, I think, and I'm smoking pot and I'm like, nine.

[Nathan Kress]

They loved him. Nine.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

Oh, my gosh.

[Nathan Kress]

Former child weed model with Biggie Smalls.

[Lacey Mosley]

I also love the one that's Die Carly, the video game where it's you, like, gleefully holding a gun out to people, like an action adventure game.

[Nathan Kress]

And I like the one that's like.

[Lacey Mosley]

It's.

[Nathan Kress]

The gun's very close to the camera, and she's smiling. Oh, my goodness. Y'all are wild. Y'all need to stop. These are human beings. Stop putting Freddie with bin Laden. He don't know him. Um, okay, so this is a podcast all about scams and fraud, and either of you can go first. Like, what's your relationship with scams? It can be a scam story. You can just tell me if you hate scams or you love them. It could be anything.

[Lacey Mosley]

Very.

[Nathan Kress]

No pressure show.

[Lacey Mosley]

For me, personally, I have a very conflicting relationship with scams because I. I'm so fascinated by them. I love them in a deep, dark, masochistic way because the mindset of a scammer is so interesting to me. The creativity that it takes and the confidence that they have to have to pull this stuff off. I don't have that brain. So when I hear about people who do these things, it's very interesting to me, and I kind of love it. But at the same time, it also triggers a massive justice complex in me where I get really mad about it because I don't like people getting, you know.

[Nathan Kress]

You like justice?

[Lacey Mosley]

I like justice.

[Nathan Kress]

I love it. I love when someone comes on and likes justice because this is not the place for that. No, it absolutely is. We love a viewpoint that's like, we like some justice, and maybe we'll see some, maybe we won't maybe. But I. I'm the type that. I'm like, okay, well, if you're scamming up, if you're scamming corporations, I love that.

[Lacey Mosley]

That's okay.

[Nathan Kress]

Yeah. If you're harming people, though, I'm absolutely on your side of. Like, if they're poor people, marginalized people, people who are really like, you know, you're ruining their lives, that. That upsets me because I'm like, come on, don't scam down. Scam up.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah. You know, but I love a. I love a corporate espionage kind of scam those.

[Nathan Kress]

You know, you like a Ocean's Eleven.

[Lacey Mosley]

Like, I'll watch that documentary. I'll support that narrative.

[Nathan Kress]

Nathan is like the Robin Hood follower. Nathan literally comes to set early and he orders his breakfast the night before.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

So he doesn't cause any trouble.

[Lacey Mosley]

I don't want to bog down crafty. In the morning, I'll be pulling up the set.

[Nathan Kress]

Like, I know how to be the perfect amount of late where it's like, it's not gonna throw anything off. No one's gonna notice on set. I'm not gonna disrespect our crew and things like that, but if you call me in and I look at the call sheet and I'm like, wait a minute. I got a little more time than what they giving me. I'm gonna take it. I moved three minutes away from Paramount so that if I overslept, which happened once.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

You'd still be there in three minutes.

[Nathan Kress]

Yep. One time I overslept, got a phone call from our ad and he was like, oh, where are you? And I was like, oh, I'm in bed. And he was like, need to be at work. And I was like, oh, okay. I took a shower, like, got ready, did everything. I was in work. At work in 12 minutes.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

Wow, that's amazing.

[Lacey Mosley]

Good for you. I mean, wow. Yeah. See, my problem is I'm too far away for that. I have to leave.

[Nathan Kress]

Yeah, you got a plan?

[Lacey Mosley]

Cuz California's always on fire. You never know when the trap comes down.

[Nathan Kress]

You be driving from San Francisco every day. So you got a plane.

[Lacey Mosley]

I need that high speed bullet train real bad to span the right.

[Nathan Kress]

Where's all our infrastructure? America. The ghetto.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

The scams that I'm the most into but also dislike the most are like love scams. Like when people do stuff on apps like Tinder, Swindler. That really got me. Like, I couldn't stop watching it, but I was furious. I just hate the thought of somebody going on an app and, like, pretending they're something they totally aren't.

[Nathan Kress]

Absolutely your safe space. How dare you do this to me on Bumble. I sent you a prompt.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

Not like that. I've also been. I was telling Nathan I've been swindled before by a grandmother. Oh, yes, this grandma. I think I've told you before. She was a very young grandmother and she had a motorcycle. And I was friends with her daughter. When I went to pick her daughter up one day, she rolled the motorcycle out to the front yard. And while I was waiting for her daughter to come out, I was like, oh, what's going on? Because she was Shining it up. And she was like, I'm just really sad. And I was like, why? Like, what's happening? And she was like, well, like, this motorcycle is my pride and joy. And she was like, but I have to sell it. And she was like, I went on Craigslist and the person's gonna be here any minute to take her away. And I was like, I love that.

[Nathan Kress]

She did a whole performance. She was like, oh, Miranda's coming. Wheel the bike out. Yeah, give me that polish.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

Start polishing. She was so sad. And I was just like, oh, my God, that's horrible. Like, she was like, yeah, but she's like, I need the $3,000. She was like, you gotta do what you gotta do. And I was just kinda like, okay. And then I could tell, like she was hoping I would offer.

[Nathan Kress]

I mean, that's why she was specific. She was like, yeah, it's crazy. She was wiping the motorcycle with no rags. She's just moving her hand in circles in front of it. She's like, yeah, it's crazy. I gotta shine it up. Cause I don't have $3,000.68.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

But I didn't do anything. And then later I just felt really weird, like I could. Something was off. And then like a week later, she was like, literally going around on the motorcycle. And I was in my car and I saw her.

[Nathan Kress]

Damn. She was like, if only I knew a former child model that I could get $3,000.68 from.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

That is a good scam, though, to just like wheel your motorcycle out. Like, what if every time someone came over to your house, like, no matter who it was, you just wheeled your motorcycle out and you got out the shining spray and you started.

[Nathan Kress]

I wouldn't be surprised if she had done that to more than one of people. Like, I don't think, Granny, I don't think you should be cleaning that with Windex. I feel like she also. Why are you cleaning it with it?

[Lacey Mosley]

She probably just does it on a sliding scale too. When she knows who's coming over. If it's a former child model, yeah, you're getting four figure sums. But if it's just one of the friends coming over, they only need like $300, you know?

[Nathan Kress]

Is she like shining a lime scooter? Then she takes down the stakes.

[Lacey Mosley]

My pride and joy. My baby.

[Nathan Kress]

How will I get around town as a grandmother without my scooter? Oh, man, I love that. I feel like you guys have been famous for a very long time. So I think that you're very ripe for Scams Think people might see you and think, you know, dollar signs in their eyes. You know, Scams.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah. I think that's why you generally have to have a mindset of just everyone is sus. So you kind of have to.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

When you're still making bank from a yeast infection.

[Nathan Kress]

Exactly.

[Lacey Mosley]

I'm still getting those residuals from that one magazine. And you gotta protect.

[Nathan Kress]

You never know.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

You can't trust anyone.

[Lacey Mosley]

That's my nest egg right there. I can't let. I can't let that be compromised.

[Nathan Kress]

That's when Nathan really blew up. Like, we know you, Monistat. Yeah, yeah, that's me.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

That's me.

[Lacey Mosley]

I still have the overalls.

[Nathan Kress]

Oh, I love those for you both. Well, let's get into our first segment here. What's Hot and Fraud? This is where we warn our listeners about popping scams in the zeitgeist. Or more often than not, we get a letter from you guys out there. As always, snitch on your friends and family. Scamgodesspodma. Just make sure your scam is retired, because we don't want to. What? Yes. Fuck up your bag. Amen. Miranda and Nathan. I need a fake name for this person. We don't care about gender. Could be anything.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

Mary Ellen.

[Lacey Mosley]

How classy.

[Nathan Kress]

Ooh, I love that. Because it's so old and timey that it's gonna fit perfectly into this episode. Mary Ellen. Oh, Mary Ellen. I feel like. Are babies named Mary? When you have a baby named Mary, can you call them Mary? Like. Like when they adult name?

[Lacey Mosley]

Well, all baby names become adult names.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

I know, but certain names, they're not baby child.

[Lacey Mosley]

Like, they're just meant to be for an adult. Yeah, I get what you're like.

[Nathan Kress]

If your name is Kiki, when you become an adult, you're going to have to try to find something more adult than that. Like, no, your name is Kiki on the birth certificate. No, no, no, no. I'm 25 now. It's Catherine. We just were changing the name. We can't be Kiki anymore. It's like a lot of family members of mine have lil in front of their names still. Like, we call them, like, oh.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

And the people take it away and.

[Nathan Kress]

They'Re grown adults and they're like, yeah, it's Lil Darrel.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

What name would have you picked? Nathan? Maybe yours would be better.

[Lacey Mosley]

Well, see, I was gonna go. I was gonna go Brunhilde, which is like far, far.

[Nathan Kress]

I guess it'd be like Django Unchained, but it's like a German name. Brunhilda.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

You can decide. Lacy. Which name is the winner?

[Nathan Kress]

Both of them are Mary Ellen or Broomhilda. They're both pretty good. Maybe I give them four names. So Mary Ellen Broomhilda says, oh, there's a lot of nice. You know what? I'm gonna read this just because of your profession. Says, I think you're 10 out of 10. And the most delightful. The scam I have to share is one that I caught one of my first graders doing. I'm a teacher. Shout out to the teachers. Really shout out to y'all, man. Like, I don't know how y'all do it. I'm not dealing with nobody's unemployed spawn all day. And it ain't mouthy. They got attitude and lip and it's like, you don't pay no bills. How dare you?

[Lacey Mosley]

I literally had to tell my 4 year old that the other day. He's like, I'm young. Yep, you can slam the door when it's your house.

[Nathan Kress]

You ain't paying no door bills in here.

[Lacey Mosley]

That's right.

[Nathan Kress]

You ain't got no WD40 money.

[Lacey Mosley]

You're not gonna send the repairman out for that crack in that door that you made.

[Nathan Kress]

Exactly.

[Lacey Mosley]

Those four year olds need to know.

[Nathan Kress]

They do. I love that. That's your version of, like, what Black people call McDonald's money. Like, when we were kids, like, we'd always want to go to McDonald's. And I don't know why. This is a universal black experience. We were like, let's go to McDonald's. And then our parents would be like, you got McDonald's money? Of course I don't. I'm unemployed. But I love it being like, you got door slamming money. I don't think you do.

[Lacey Mosley]

That's a solid core door child.

[Nathan Kress]

Right? These doors are expensive. What you're doing. I love that so much. So Mary Ellen Brumhilda says, in my class, my students earn tickets in various ways. So you gotta fucking compensate these children. Like, well, I gotta pay you for a free education.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

Like for bad behavior or like for good?

[Nathan Kress]

No, like for good. That's a ticket. Like, you're gonna find a ticket. Like the police.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

When I was little, I had to pull my card. Did you ever do that?

[Lacey Mosley]

Ye.

[Nathan Kress]

Yes.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

And it's like getting a ticket kind of. I mean, you have to pull the card and then eventually it gets to red and then you're done.

[Lacey Mosley]

Oh, you're just.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

You might as well just.

[Lacey Mosley]

That goose is over.

[Nathan Kress]

You know what? That I don't Think was exception. They didn't factor in like children who were meant to be entertainers or people who were not like the most like self. Like, okay. We had something at our elementary school called self managers. And self managers got these gold badges that they could wear around and they would have like little pizza parties like every. And I always wanted to be a self manager, but you had to have good grades and you couldn't get your card pulled a lot. So I would have good grades, but I would be getting my card pulled all the time because I'd be talking cash in class. And for some reason at this school and we all wear uniforms. There were a lot of Russian kids and all the Russian kids were self managers.

[Lacey Mosley]

Odd.

[Nathan Kress]

A government who I don't know. But they were all self managers. And I was always so envy of this. I was like, man, Anya got. She is self manager.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

How did you become one? How did you like, what did you have to do to get it?

[Nathan Kress]

Be quiet and get good grades. And I could get good grades, but I couldn't be quiet.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

I feel like a self manager would need to have confidence and be loud.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah, right.

[Nathan Kress]

I manage it myself. So.

[Lacey Mosley]

Showing leadership qualities, managing others.

[Nathan Kress]

Exactly. Mary Ellen Broomhilda is giving out these tickets. Positive reinforcement, Miranda. Not ticketed. They write their names on them and at the end of the day we do a drawing with those tickets. We always choose two names and those two students get to choose a prize from my prize box. Man, I miss being a kid because we used to be delighted by the most basic ass shit. Like a fucking racer. That smell good? Yep. I'm like, ooh, a pencil.

[Lacey Mosley]

But it's got cinnamon on it.

[Nathan Kress]

When are we gonna get our mesothelioma commercial? Which I think is gonna be like. If you or a loved one has smelled a magic sniff marker, you may be entitled to damages. I know that was doing something to us for sure. And I was sniffing them all. I love the grape one.

[Lacey Mosley]

Ah, the best.

[Nathan Kress]

Why do you need to sniff a pen or a marker? Like, that's insane.

[Lacey Mosley]

And I don't get they. You can't sniff any of the other markers. So why are there only certain markers you can't sniff?

[Nathan Kress]

Honestly, a gateway drug. Because then, you know, I start sniffing permanent markers. You get a little high out.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah. Then you get the white out. You know, it's a slippery slope.

[Nathan Kress]

Just a paint huffing. That's the gateway to paint huffing. As you got magic markers for children. So they get something from the prize box. Last week I noticed one student had been winning an uncanny amount of times. Like, Homie was getting a prize eight out of nine days in a row. And I should have caught it earlier, but I've been having health issues, and it's the end of the year, and you know how it goes. I know absolutely how it goes. And also, you a teacher. You gotta be out here being a. You gotta be a teacher. You gotta be like, martial law. You gotta. It's just. It's an insane position that this country has put our educators in, and they don't pay them well enough. I'm like, I'm glad y'all not in here shaking the kids and pinching them under their arms. I be pinching out the kids. The little, tiny little. Do it right when. No I can see it at all. So shout out to you. But. So anyway, she's like, I didn't notice that this was happening. Anyways, I investigated a little bit and noticed that on the tickets that had this student's name, you could faintly see an erased name underneath it. I asked the student about it, and they were like, every day when you put my ticket in the jar, I would take a few tickets out and erase whoever's name was on it and then write my own.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

He just gave himself up. It's like he was so proud. Like, you know in movies when the villain just starts talking for a long time about what they did, and you're wondering, like, why is the villain talking for 15 minutes?

[Nathan Kress]

These are details we didn't ask for. These are crimes we didn't. You're like, yeah, 10 years ago, I robbed another bank. It was like, nobody asked about that. You don't have to. Just proud. He was like, yeah, I took a few out. But think about it. If he only took a few out and left some, his odds are still pretty good. This teacher must not have been shaking up the ticket bowl. He was just sprinkling them on top.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

Was the teacher impressed? What did the teacher do?

[Nathan Kress]

It says, honestly, for a first grader, this is the equivalent of Ocean's eleven heist. Because they are just very bad liars and never sneaky. So props to this kid. But I did have to remove all the tickets that had their name on it in the jars so they couldn't keep winning prizes. So basically what he was doing was stacking the deck, because they get these tickets for being good, and then the tickets accumulate.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

So he was doing something evil, but he was getting the tickets for being good. Cause she thought he was being good. And then he was also writing his.

[Lacey Mosley]

Name on all the con.

[Nathan Kress]

Little by little, every day, he was stacking the deck. Cause he's adding more tickets every single time. Cause he's erasing people's names. So think of, like, a big jar. And then every time you get good tickets, she reaches into the same jar. And you have better chances of winning if you're better behaved.

[Lacey Mosley]

I'm just trying to figure out, genius that is, when is he getting them back into the jar? Cause he's got to take them out. He's got to take them away. He's got to go erase him. Put his name back on it. These kids, where's he finding that time?

[Nathan Kress]

There was a viral tweet about his that she was like, I took a phone away from a child in my class. And then I turned around and she had the phone again, and she was on it. And she was like, how did you get this phone? And she was like, you and my mama love a little drawer. And, like, went back to her phone. Y'all love a little drawer chat. I just went into the drawer and got it back.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

Just opened the drawer up.

[Nathan Kress]

I love that, though. I love when kids are criminals. I love it. Cause you can tell early on if a kid's gonna be a criminal a few ways. You can. How if they open up a lemonade stand. Any kid who's trying to make money.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

I had a lemonade stand multiple times as a child.

[Lacey Mosley]

You're just a scam waiting to happen. Taking time by.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

I'm a good lemonade stand. What child model Money isn't what people think it is.

[Nathan Kress]

Now you're having to open your small business after your child modeling career. This will tell. So we gotta pivot Now. I'm a child model who sells lemonade.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

Lemonade on the street corner.

[Nathan Kress]

Now, what kind of lemonade were you slanging?

[Miranda Cosgrove]

My mom helped me make it. It was homemade lemonade, which nowadays I feel like nobody would buy because they'd.

[Nathan Kress]

Be scared to get Covid right or anything. Cause it's like, man, the good old days when you could leave your doors unlocked and buy unmarked lemonade on the street.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

I remember how excited I was because my across street neighbor, they were doing construction, and I knew all the construction workers were gonna be there one day.

[Nathan Kress]

Oh, you are a scammer, friend. You were like, ooh. And today is hot. 89 degrees. Oh, yeah. Y'all gonna be parked split up a.

[Lacey Mosley]

A little easy up right over there. So they could stand in line in the shade and get their ice cold lemonade.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

Put out the catalog that I had the picture in from the child modeling to draw them in actually. That's creepy.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah, I don't know.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

Nevermind.

[Lacey Mosley]

Not totally sure about that part.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

That doesn't work.

[Nathan Kress]

I was following him. I love that you're just trying to. You're like just whatever we can do to advertise this lemonade. I love it. I love it. I think you could put out a sign that's like struggling former child model.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

That would have been good.

[Nathan Kress]

Please buy lemon sugar water. Help us struggle child model. Well, guys, we're going to take a quick break for some non scam advertisements. We'll be right back with my favorite part of the show, historic Hoodwinks scam. Look y'all, I might be an expert in scams, but I am not an expert in everything, okay? And that's why I love Acorns because they will recommend a diversified portfolio that fits you and your money goals. Don't we all have money goals? I know we all making money moves. You don't need to be rich. Acorn lets you invest with the spare money you've got right now. You can start start with $5 or even just your spare change. You don't need to feel like financial wellness is impossible because it's not. Acorns gives you small, simple steps to get you and your money on track. Basically, Acorns does the hard part so you can give your money a chance to grow. I actually use Acorns and I love it. And sometimes I forget that it's there and I'll go look and I'll be like ooh, money. But then I'll leave the money alone because that's what investment is about. Head to acorns.com goddess or download the Acorns app to start saving and investing for your future. Today, paid non client endorsement compensation provides incentive to positively promote Acorns Tier 2 compensation provided investing involves risk. Acorn Advisors LLC and SEC registered investment advisor. View important [e-mail] Goddess y'all, we made it. We made it through another holiday season. And personally I think it's time for us to treat ourselves. And y'all know when I want to treat myself that I'm going to quince cuz I can treat myself without hurting my poor, poor bank account. All quint Items are priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands because they partner directly with top factories to cut the cost and the middleman. And we love that. And of course they use premium fabrics and finishes for that luxury feel in every single piece and right now, I am obsessed with the organic heavyweight fleece. I just got it in the Concord and in the tan. Like, sometimes I talk about quints like a family member. It's wild because it's so cozy on my body. That is why I love quince. Treat yourself this winter without the luxury price tag. Go to quints.com goddess for 365 day returns plus free shipping on your order. That's Q-U-I-N c e.com goddess to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com and we are back. And it's time for historic hoodwinks. This is when I will regale our two former child models, Nathan and Miranda, with a hoodwink. I don't know. I think it's gonna stick. Now this is what you're known for. Now I need to see this Monistat commercial.

[Lacey Mosley]

My mom's got the clipping somewhere. I'm sure I'll pull it out.

[Nathan Kress]

She's proud. Oh, yeah, she's proud. Listen, ladies, begin. Yeast infections. You was a feminist.

[Lacey Mosley]

That's right. Before your time, I was a pioneer.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

Child male model feminist.

[Lacey Mosley]

That's right.

[Nathan Kress]

So we're just adding. We're just gonna keep adding a lot.

[Lacey Mosley]

Of hyphenates to my resume, to my title.

[Nathan Kress]

So historic handlings. I'll regale you with a famous con or caper, and we'll just get your opinions all throughout. Both of my guests are very famous. And so we have a rule after an incident that if you know, you know that we only talk dead people. Famous people. So that no one will tweet you and then show their nudes for deciding not to sell the book that they got pre order money from. If you know, you know. So today we're getting into like, right before the 20th century.

[Lacey Mosley]

Ooh, deep dive.

[Nathan Kress]

Okay, so like, Mary Ellen and also Broomhilda were very fun, like educators that we were going back in time. So there's a woman named Cassie Chadwick, and so that was her name to some, and then she had half a dozen other names to others. So, you know, she was like, she had new names all the time, which I love. Reinvent yourself. If you have four names, you're a scammer. Like, if your parents give you four names, you have no choice but to do crime. Truly, Cassie used charm and other goodwill and maybe even clairvoyance to con banks and merchants out of hundreds of thousands of dollars. And this is olden time. Hundreds of thousands.

[Lacey Mosley]

That's a good bit.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

That's Millions.

[Nathan Kress]

Yeah, yeah. Inflation as our money gets less valuable every. It's very sad. Like somebody pointed out that like, not in our state, but in a lot of states in America, the gas in California has risen to above the minimum wage. Like the national minimum.

[Lacey Mosley]

Oh, wow.

[Nathan Kress]

Yeah, it's like 789. So it's more than the minimum.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yikes. Well, that's a problem.

[Nathan Kress]

Yeah, you know, we got a lot of problems. We got a lot of problems. We just kind of all out here on supplements, advice, you know. It's literally the line from our show. So Elizabeth Betty Bigley. So that's Cassie Chadwick. This is her first name, the one someone else gave her. This is her. This is Elizabeth up here in 1904. She must have had that good money. Cause how did you get photos in 1904? She probably had to sit for like four hours.

[Lacey Mosley]

Truly, she had time on her hands.

[Nathan Kress]

That's why nobody smiled back in the day in olden time photos. Cause they had to sit for so long.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

It would hurt.

[Nathan Kress]

Yeah, it would hurt. So they all just was like staring. She got the accoutrement though. That's a lot of clothing. I could not have been in the olden times because like, how do you even have like a clicky, like a frisky session where you gotta take off several petticoats maybe?

[Lacey Mosley]

It's just the hoop is so big, you know, it's like outwardly.

[Nathan Kress]

And that shoulder stuff too.

[Lacey Mosley]

Well, that's true. Those shoulder quickies, you know.

[Nathan Kress]

Yeah.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

She doesn't really look like a scammer. I'm not just a scammer.

[Nathan Kress]

See, and I think that's why it worked out for her. Cause she was giving like Lyle by Fighting Citizen.

[Lacey Mosley]

She's letting the sleeves do the work.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

She just looks very like simple together.

[Nathan Kress]

Miranda, you like her too much? Like I love her outfit. She looks very simple.

[Lacey Mosley]

Scammers love a scammer. And after the lemonade thing. I'm sorry.

[Nathan Kress]

Yeah, we know that Miranda.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

Takes one to know one, right?

[Nathan Kress]

That's why she didn't get scammed by Granny Motorcycle. She was like, ah, ah, Granny Motorcycle. I've been on these streets. Spotted it polishing lemons in front of the construction site. You ain't fooling me. So at the age of 14, she opened a bank account in Ontario bank and used a forged letter of inheritance stating an uncle had died and left her a sum of money. And back in the day, like if you had a piece of paper and it looked good enough, like who's gonna Check you, boo. We ain't had no Google. Like who you know, you just asked around. Yeah, like that's it.

[Lacey Mosley]

If your writing's fancy enough, that's pretty much all you need, right?

[Nathan Kress]

You got good penmanship. That was their version of Photoshop. So every few months she was arrested, but released on grounds of insan and warned to never do it again. And this is something I've noticed cause like, she was born in 1857. And something I've noticed about the turn of the century is like, this was a time when if women were too smart, they'd be like, she's a witch. Or they'd be like, she's crazy. Put her in the laundry bin or put her in that place where we make them all do laundry cause they're whores. Like these were things that existed. And so back then, the only benefit of being a woman was there was like a good amount of sexism around. Like, women be crazy. So you could just get arrested for doing hella crimes and be like, I.

[Lacey Mosley]

Be crazy, but I promise I won't do it again.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

I'll do it again.

[Nathan Kress]

I'll never do it again.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

I'm not crazy anymore.

[Nathan Kress]

I was on my period.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

I'm a witch.

[Nathan Kress]

You just admit to a witch so you get outta stuff. So several years later, at the age of 22, Betty devised what would become her trademark scam. Using expensive letterhead and fictitious names of an Ontario lawyer, Betty sent herself a letter stating that a philanthropist had died and left her an inheritance of $15,000. In today's money, that's about $300,000.

[Lacey Mosley]

Okay.

[Nathan Kress]

She then had business cards made so that she could announce her new wealth. I love it. Like a costume. She's got a business card.

[Lacey Mosley]

And she was so confident, she announced her new wealth.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

So what would the business card say? Like, I just broke a million.

[Nathan Kress]

Betty Bigley, rich person, rich lady. She said, my bank of vagina is overflowing. I mean, you know, I guess that's what you did when you were rich back in the day. You got some cars printed out and be like, I'm rich now. It's me, I'm rich, I love it. I don't know, I get some cards. No, I'll never get those cards ever. So Betty's plan was simple. She would go into shops, write a check for a larger sum than her purchase, then she'd ask for the cash difference back. And this is like, she basically pioneered the check fraud scam, you know, where like, people would be like, websites would be like, oh, do you wanna be a secret shopper? And then, like, you sign up and they send you a check for more money than they're like, oh, we sent you $200 extra. Deposit the check, send us 200 back, and you keep the rest. And then the check bounces after like, three or four days. But you've already sent the money, right? She was doing that wow. In the early 1900s.

[Lacey Mosley]

Oh, man. So was she, like, the first. Was. Is this, like, the first one, right? Is she the mastermind of that whole thing?

[Nathan Kress]

Yeah, she's definitely an innovator, a pioneer.

[Lacey Mosley]

Scammy godmother of check fraud.

[Nathan Kress]

So if she was ever questioned if she could afford her purchases, she'd simply produce her calling card stating that she was an heiress.

[Lacey Mosley]

Not to worry, good sir. As you can see, I am clearly a rich person.

[Nathan Kress]

Look at my card. It's just rich.

[Lacey Mosley]

You can clearly see where it is embossed.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

Isn't it so funny to imagine her printing out the cards before she did the scam? Getting all the cards ready, like, oh, yeah. Waiting for the money to come in.

[Nathan Kress]

It's like, oh, yeah, these look. These look good. I love that for her. Y'all gotta print out cards after this. Go to FedEx Kinko's. When we finish, get your former child model cards.

[Lacey Mosley]

Do you think whatever the guy was at the version of Kinko's that she had these made was going, I don't know about this. This seems a little odd to me. But, you know, she's paying me. So here's your rich person card.

[Nathan Kress]

It must have been the culture. I mean, think about it. Probably up until what, like the late 90s we would see in movies and TV shows, like, Rich people would be like, here's my card. But that was the thing. If you had business cards, we were like, you fancy? And now that I think about it, when I first started acting, I had headshots. And I also had business cards with my face on them.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

What did they say? Just your name.

[Nathan Kress]

They said Lacey Mosley. Rich person.

[Lacey Mosley]

Future rich person.

[Nathan Kress]

Call me now. Like Ms. Cleo. You call Ms. Cleo and then call me later. Call me after. Oh, man.

[Lacey Mosley]

Give me a job.

[Nathan Kress]

So I get it. Damn, I forgot I had business cards. I really do be doing crime. Wow. Wow, sirs.

[Lacey Mosley]

But I'm sure it made a difference, though, because as soon as you get in an audition, you get handed a business card that's like an automatic. Oh, oh, oh.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

Like you know who you're dealing with.

[Lacey Mosley]

You sit up and pay attention to a Woman who walks in with a business card, in addition to that, you.

[Nathan Kress]

Got to flick it at em too.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah, you gotta get that throw in.

[Nathan Kress]

Yeah, that too. You put it between your fingers and you flick it at em. Everyone at home, hold up a peace sign, turn it sideways, and then close your fingers and then flick it. That's how you flick the business card at people. Gotta hit em in the eye.

[Lacey Mosley]

Slides right across the desk. Just boom. Fancy, right there.

[Nathan Kress]

I love this for her. A short while after our scammer Cassie, I'm just gonna call her Cassie. Cause she has a lot of names. And now they're calling her Betty. And I'm like, who is Betty? But it's Elizabeth. Betty Bigley. She got a lot of names. So Cassie Chadwick, she spent her time, like, chasing her sister around. So she basically followed her sister when her sister got married and was like, oh, y'all going to Cleveland. Y'all married. Like, I'm also gonna be with y' in addition to in your home. Which seems normal.

[Lacey Mosley]

Normal.

[Nathan Kress]

While staying with them, Betty spent her time appraising the furnishings of her sister's house and used them as collateral to arrange for a bank loan.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

During her sister's wedding?

[Nathan Kress]

No, during. That would be also hilarious. Imagine being at a wedding and your shit getting reposted.

[Lacey Mosley]

Gone by the time you get back to Peru.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

That's not what you said. It wasn't during the wedding.

[Nathan Kress]

So after her wedding with this man in Cleveland, Betty was like, who is Cassie Chadwick? She was like, oh, I'm about to move in with y'all. Like, y'all married and I'mma be in here with y'all. And then she lived with them. And she was like, ooh, the furniture.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

Oh. So she started figuring out all the furniture prices while she lived there.

[Nathan Kress]

She was like, is this mahogany? She started appraising it all and used it as collateral for a bank loan. Upon discovering Cassie's newest scheme, her sister's husband kicked her out. So when she found out, Cassie, we have lost a lot of silver spoons. And she's like, I didn't steal them. Here's my business card. I'm a rich person.

[Lacey Mosley]

I don't need to steal them. I'm already independently rich.

[Nathan Kress]

Look at these business cards. Come on now.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

So the husband got her out. The husband was onto her.

[Nathan Kress]

Yeah. So her. So basically, her stepbrother in law, it was like, what is that called? Brother in law? Brother in law. I'm not married. You can tell. I don't know the terms. What's it called my sister baby daddy. So at this point, it was 1882. Betty, Elizabeth, Cassie Chadwick, all the same name. If I say a name and it's female pronouns, it's Cassie. Just go with it, y'all. Like, it's too many names. She was 25, and she had a few marriage prospects. Cause, you know, you was right, Miranda. She was looking cute. She was giving the job even.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

You're a rich lady.

[Nathan Kress]

Listen, the doors open up. No, they don't.

[Lacey Mosley]

She's in the clientele.

[Nathan Kress]

Honestly, I think the more money you make as a woman, the harder it is to do. Yeah, I'm gonna start pretending to be bored. I'm gonna show up in rags on dates. Be like, I need you, sir. Save me.

[Lacey Mosley]

Just evoke something in them. You know, it's the perfect plan.

[Nathan Kress]

We're gonna go to, like, the most basic restaurant.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

You're like, wow. You're like at Olive Garden. Or like, wow.

[Lacey Mosley]

Unlimited breadsticks.

[Nathan Kress]

Wow.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

You go to a buffet.

[Nathan Kress]

Like, I can keep going. They have so many clean plates. I can have another. I just gotta start being Oliver Twist on dates. Lisa, may I have some more? They bring water to the table. I'm like, oh, it's cold. I never have water cold. Excuse me, waiter. How do you make the water cold?

[Lacey Mosley]

What devices do you have in the back that allows the water to be less than room temperature?

[Nathan Kress]

This is insane. There's not even any ice cubes in it. How is it cold? I just don't know what refrigeration is. So, Betty, Elizabeth Chadwick, she's 25. I'm gonna try to stay with Elizabeth Chadwick so I don't drive y'all crazy. She's 25. She a bad bitch in the streets. Everybody wanna marry her, get her hand. And 25 was kind of older in the game. Cause remember, this is when people was dying at they Jesus year. Like, so, you know, the girls were dying, so the clock was ticking.

[Lacey Mosley]

25. She's. She's just about at the end of her rope.

[Nathan Kress]

Yeah. Yeah. This will call a spinster. When I read Diane Keaton's book, she said that at her time, when she was coming up and she learned Meisner from Sydney Meisner, like, you know, like a different time. She was like, yeah, if you didn't make it in the acting business by 25, you were washed up.

[Lacey Mosley]

I was like, oh, my God. Oh, no.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

It's over for you at 25, Diane.

[Nathan Kress]

This is stressful. I'm like, I should have gave y'all some more time. But. So she's 25. She a bad bitch. She gotta get married right now. It was in this new neighborhood. Cause she got a new apartment, right? She got kicked out, so she got her own apartment. She rented a flat, claimed she was a widow. Introduced herself as clairvoyant Madame Lydia Deveret.

[Lacey Mosley]

Oh, now we're getting into it.

[Nathan Kress]

Yeah, she was the first Ms. Cleo. Call me Now. She opened her clairvoyant shop using the bank loan she obtained with her sister's furniture.

[Lacey Mosley]

So he couldn't even stop her before it. The furniture was gone. And only then did he realize, oh, she's got to go.

[Nathan Kress]

Bank of vagina. America pulled up and was like, no, we're gonna be taking that. No, here's our paperwork. This is a lie. How you gonna do your sister like this? You are trash. So in this new neighborhood, as a clairvoyant under her new name, this is when she met Dr. Wallace S. Springsteen. Betty and Dr. Springsteen were married a year later. But when the local paper printed an announcement of the couple's union, several furious merchants, including Betty's sister, showed up at the door demanding to be repaid. So this is, like, a small town, right? The local paper, printing press comes out, and they were like, this bitch got married. What'd she stay at? And I imagine, like, what do you think it would be like to organize, like, a pitchfork mob? Like, how do you tell the girls? Like, we get your pitchforks. Girls, we're doing a mob. Get in. Girls, we're doing an angry mob.

[Lacey Mosley]

It's that time of the year. We're gonna sharpen those pitchforks, right?

[Nathan Kress]

Who's got their pitchforks? Okay, you got that? Okay, Dave, A shovel. Okay. It's not as good as a pitchfork, but we'll take. Just keep sticking it in the air, looking angry. Who's got the fire? Okay. Yeah, like, how long in an angry mob? Cause, you know, this is like the olden times. So they either had to walk with the angry mob or maybe take a horse to her.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

Does anger, like, wear off after a while? Like, do you think they held it in until they got close to, like, the scene?

[Nathan Kress]

How do you stay angry for that long? Is there, like, a cheerleader? Cause, like, that is what happens when you protest. Like, they have people who come to protest who have drums and they do, like, beats.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

They hype you up.

[Nathan Kress]

And they hype you up. Cause you're marching for, like, sometimes one Black Lives Matter protest. That I did. We marched for 12 miles, and we got to the 12th mile, and I was like, okay, so did we get the freedom? They were like, nah, we did it. It's like, okay, so we just go home. All right, see y'all next week. How long we gonna do this? I'm like, it's been 70 years. I gotta come back out here. This is very ghetto.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

12 miles. That's a lot.

[Nathan Kress]

Yes. We marched from Pan Pacific park to Beverly Hills.

[Lacey Mosley]

Wow.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

Did you Uber back home?

[Nathan Kress]

I did. Which doesn't feel as inspiring as marching all the way back. But they have.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

After 12 miles, you're allowed to.

[Lacey Mosley]

I think you get a pass at that point.

[Nathan Kress]

But the thing is, is, like, they have people to hype you up. Cause you're right, Miranda. Like, in 12 miles, you know, you're disciplined.

[Lacey Mosley]

Maybe it's not so bad, guys.

[Nathan Kress]

I mean, have we tried dodging the bullet slave?

[Miranda Cosgrove]

Oh, my God.

[Lacey Mosley]

I was thinking more in the context of Cassie, in that. I was thinking more. It's just furniture. But.

[Nathan Kress]

I'm still on the verge. They have people who beat the drums, and, like, you know, they have. Oh, this is, like, not even a chant. It's just like, say her name. So say her name is like, a phrase that came about, like, during Black Lives Matter for, like, black women who have been slain by the police. And it's like, say her name, Breonna Taylor. Say her name, Breonna Taylor. And somebody would be, like, beating drums so that we're all on beat and I guess hyped up and walking a lot of miles in the sun. And I noticed. It actually really made me smile. I noticed when in June 2020, there were so many more white people at these protests than ever before because everybody was offbeat.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

Sorry, why is something off?

[Nathan Kress]

Because the Protest is, like, 50,000, 100,000 people at this point. And so there's points in the line where there aren't black people spread out enough that we can control the chant and keep everybody upbeat. So then we had white people being like, what's her name? Breonna Taylor. It's like, what's her name? That's not.

[Lacey Mosley]

It doesn't have the same snappy, what's her name? What's her name?

[Nathan Kress]

Why we out here?

[Lacey Mosley]

Who we mad about?

[Nathan Kress]

Oh, no, Amanda, to your point, like, yeah, who keeps the angry mob hyped up?

[Miranda Cosgrove]

You think there was, like, a hype man for an angry mob back then?

[Lacey Mosley]

If we're talking that, there's got to be someone with a fife at that point. We are so mad. You know, there has to.

[Nathan Kress]

Don't lose it. They're burning her business cards in there. But she. I also imagine whoever has to hold the fire in an angry mob, like, don't. That's just a burnout. Like a match. They'll get out.

[Lacey Mosley]

It's a lot of pressure.

[Nathan Kress]

It's the hardest job.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

Burning their reds in their hands.

[Nathan Kress]

Like, who are we almost there because y'all, this is fire. About the. Ooh. It's about.

[Lacey Mosley]

Does anybody else want to take this for a little bit? Like, maybe like a half mile?

[Nathan Kress]

It's getting a little hot. I'm singed. Scared.

[Lacey Mosley]

Hey, I'm Paul Scheer.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

I'm June Diane Rayfield.

[Lacey Mosley]

And I'm Jason Manzoukas. And we're the hosts of how did this Get Made?

[Nathan Kress]

A comedy podcast where we deconstruct, make.

[Lacey Mosley]

Fun of, and celebrate the best, best worst movies ever made. Have you ever seen a movie that's so bad that it's actually good? That's what we're talking about.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

From blockbuster franchises and made for TV.

[Lacey Mosley]

Romances to bonkers 80s action flicks and obscure sci fi musicals, we cover it all. You can find. How did this get made? Wherever you get your podcasts and don't forget to follow the show so you never miss an episode. Idiot. In a world of dry eye, there's a long lasting solution that can save the day. Presenting sustain complete preservation. Its unique formula gives 8 hours of relief from the common symptoms of dry eye. Sustain complete. Open your eyes to lasting relief.

[Nathan Kress]

So, yes, they get their angry mobs together and like, kidding, girls, let's go, girls. We doing a mob. And so they pull up on Cassie and her new husband. So fearing his own credit because he's a doctor, right, Dr. Springsteen paid his wife's debt. The marriage lasted 12 days. Come on, Kim K. Only 12 days? Yes, he paid her debt. Cause he didn't want to be embarrassed. But then he was like, all right, I gotta get away from you, you scammer. But she was like, thanks. That's all I really needed.

[Lacey Mosley]

A good deal for her.

[Nathan Kress]

So with the divorce, this is when Betty, you know, had renamed herself again. Now she is Madame Maria Rosa.

[Lacey Mosley]

Mm.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

The names keep getting more fabulous.

[Nathan Kress]

They do. Madame Maria Rosa. Sounds like she got some money. I would believe her business card. So she traveled to Pennsylvania and she continued to hone her SK skills as a scam. And one of her scams included impressing locals by pretending to be the niece of Civil War Union general William Tecumseh Sherman. I don't even know who that is.

[Lacey Mosley]

Wow.

[Nathan Kress]

She would also pretend to be seriously ill. One witness reported that through a trick of extracting blood from her gums, she led persons to believe that she was suffering from a hemorrhage.

[Lacey Mosley]

What's that? So she would just, like, cut up her gums on a regular basis, Just.

[Nathan Kress]

Start stabbing up her gums and then.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

Letting the blood run out into the street. Start screaming, yo.

[Nathan Kress]

It's wild to me that that worked in that time, because if you bleeding out the mouth, I'm staying away from you.

[Lacey Mosley]

Right?

[Miranda Cosgrove]

What would she get out of doing that? Why would people give her money for that?

[Lacey Mosley]

I don't know.

[Nathan Kress]

Treatment, Kindness. The locals took pity on Madame Marie and raised funds to loan her travel back to Cleveland.

[Lacey Mosley]

Oh, no.

[Nathan Kress]

She was like, I gotta get hemorrhage surgery. I need to train ticket. She's a bad lady. So when they wrote several weeks later, like, for repayment, they would receive letters saying that Madame Marie had died. Now, listen, she was bleeding out the mouth. So in the olden times, if you was bleeding out of any organism 25.

[Lacey Mosley]

She was approaching that time, you know.

[Nathan Kress]

Life was finna be over for her. Modern medicine. I feel like if you bleeding out the mouth, I'd be like, yeah, she probably did die. Like, honestly, if you had a nosebleed, I'd be like, yeah, she probably did die. It was that time you could probably die of nosebleed. How embarrassing. Probably I died of nosebleed. So she was telling everybody that Madame Marie had died. One final touch, Cassie wrote another tender tribute to Madame Marie. So then, as a, like, little razzle dazzle, she wrote a obituary for her former self.

[Lacey Mosley]

Wow. Classy.

[Nathan Kress]

I think everyone should write their own obituaries. Like, why do we let our families write our obituaries? I need to do that before I d. I'm gonna do that tonight. Lacey was a bad bitch. Loved by all.

[Lacey Mosley]

That's all that needs to be said.

[Nathan Kress]

So sexy. Too sexy to die.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

She drove her car on the freeway. Everybody stared.

[Nathan Kress]

Oh, they did. I don't know why. Miranda, that reminds me of you and your car. I've never seen anyone more responsible about a car in my life. The amount of times I've texted Miranda and be like, oh, where you at? And she's like, I'm at the car wash.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

I love cleaning my car. I just got a special vacuum from Target. Like, a special one that, like, fits in between all the little, like, tiny areas that, like, a normal vacuum couldn't fit.

[Lacey Mosley]

You could probably have someone do that. I don't know if you need to have the Vacuum.

[Nathan Kress]

That's what's wild about it. It's like you go to the car wash and then you look over this Miranda Cosgrove with a tiny vacuum that.

[Lacey Mosley]

She brought from home.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

I actually, when I go to the car wash, I always vac my car first myself for, like, 30 minutes. And then it goes through, and then I take it home and I vacuum it more with my special vacuum at my house.

[Lacey Mosley]

I don't think I ever want to get in your car. I'm too scared to mess it up.

[Nathan Kress]

This is too much vacuuming.

[Lacey Mosley]

I got Cheerios and crumbs everywhere, actually.

[Nathan Kress]

Yeah, I need to know. I don't even have kids. I'm the child. And my car is. There's like, several boxes in my car right now. Emily will tell you. There's so much stuff in my car. And every now and then she's like, lacey, we should take some things out. We should remove some things. Like, I don't know if you. I don't know if you've ever seen that. Like, it was probably some, like, viral video. I can't remember who made it. Sorry. But it was like, someone tries to get into this woman's car and she's like, oh, I'm sorry. Like, I just gotta move this out of the passenger seat. And she, like, moves something, and it's like, you know, some papers or something. And then she moves like, a neutral bullet. And then she moves, like, a vacuum cleaner. There's like, all this stuff inside that's me. And Miranda's the exact opposite. Just, like, sucking up every crumb.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

You should put me on the job. Call me over. I'll bring my vacuum.

[Lacey Mosley]

You guys are a match made in heaven.

[Nathan Kress]

Truly.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

Let me know.

[Nathan Kress]

Amanda gave me a vacuum for my birthday. This woman loves vacuums for her 30th birthday.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

Got you a vacuum.

[Nathan Kress]

I love that vacuum.

[Lacey Mosley]

I did.

[Nathan Kress]

It's good. It's a quality vacuum. Oh, yeah, I'm playing. It's a Dyson.

[Lacey Mosley]

That's the vacuum then. Now I know you love her. That's how you know. Oh, my God.

[Nathan Kress]

Wait, are you wearing the necklace that I gave you as a wrap at the first season? Oh, my God. I've been wearing it.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

I wore it for the special day on the pod.

[Nathan Kress]

Aw. I gave her that necklace and I bought one, too. And I was like, this is probably the gayest present I've ever given anyone. It's so cute, though. Sorry. I was like, magic heart necklace. She reports me to hr she's like, something's going on here. This woman.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

What if you had one too, Nathan?

[Lacey Mosley]

I know. I wish I did.

[Nathan Kress]

Oh, Nathan, I need to get you a matching heart necklace.

[Lacey Mosley]

We could have all shown up today.

[Nathan Kress]

If we could have got Jerry in a matching heart necklace, that would have been hilarious.

[Lacey Mosley]

Maybe we could get one where it's broken in four pieces.

[Nathan Kress]

You know, I've never seen a heart broken in four.

[Lacey Mosley]

I haven't either.

[Nathan Kress]

We're going to see the booty side of the heart. It's just like a C, a little. You got the V?

[Lacey Mosley]

Yep.

[Nathan Kress]

Oh, wow.

[Lacey Mosley]

But then when you put us all together, we are complete. Aw, it's brilliant.

[Nathan Kress]

That's your new idea? You gotta get out there, Pandora.

[Lacey Mosley]

Call me. I got a charm for you.

[Nathan Kress]

Listen, that's how you know Nathan got a wife. He know about Pandora. That's the biggest scam is, like, husbands. Just, like, getting one bracelet and then being like, every year, like, happy anniversary, baby. Here's a new little charm for that bracelet that I got you.

[Lacey Mosley]

Little extra jingle.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

Little tiny charm.

[Nathan Kress]

Little tiny jingle. Little teeny biggest scam of all. You can keep giving somebody the same gift. It's like, this is us. Where they kept letting us reenact the same death. They were like, it's the dad. Oh, he died in a fire. This time we zooming in on a smoke alarm. This time we zooming in on a crock pot that started the fire. This time we're driving home and they got the little clothes from the dead dad. And it's about the dead dad again. Anyway, I need to not bitter about it at all. I'm doing terrible on time. Okay, so back to the story. I know y'all want to kill me. So at this point, Cassie Chadwick is Madame Marie Rosa. She married two of her clients. So she remembers she was doing, like, make em ups, like psychic visions. So then she married two of her clients because she told her clients, like, she was like, oh, you know, I see you, like, getting married and I see you with, like. She would give them premonitions that they were supposed to be with her and they would believe her.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

Oh, did she marry them both at the same time?

[Nathan Kress]

No. So she married one and then she married the other next.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah, I don't feel super bad for them. That seems a little. I mean, I just feel like you're gonna.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

I feel bad. It's a love scam. It's one of those scams we're hitting.

[Nathan Kress]

Back on the app scams that Miranda don't play with.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

Safe.

[Nathan Kress]

No one's safe.

[Lacey Mosley]

I wonder if there's any psychics out there who are signed up for dating apps who just say, I had a vision, and you and I are gonna be together. And if that's ever worked, I feel.

[Nathan Kress]

Like it has to worked for Cassie.

[Lacey Mosley]

You know?

[Nathan Kress]

It did. So the first one was a short marriage to a farmer outside of Cleveland. Obviously, he wasn't gonna have a bag. Oh, my God.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

It was real love. That was the only time she was really in love.

[Nathan Kress]

You believe.

[Lacey Mosley]

You know, that must have been it.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

That's it. Because why did she marry a farmer? That doesn't go with the rest of her scamming.

[Nathan Kress]

I mean, maybe she thought he had some cows and some eieio money.

[Lacey Mosley]

Maybe she thought she was gonna get the whole farm.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

And then she loved him. And it was for a short time. It's like she tried to follow her heart for the first time in her life.

[Nathan Kress]

I love that you've given us such a whimsical. You were definitely a Cassie stand. You're like, well, I like how she looks. She look nice. She was following her heart. Well, yeah. She married a farmer, and unfortunately, he bought the farm and died. So then she had another premonition. So Hoover, the other. He died in 1888 and left Cassie an estate worth $50,000. So basically $1.5 million in today's money. She had a good premonition. She was like, oh, you are very rich. Ooh, my sisters are tingling. Did you have a grandp? Yes. I knew that. She's in the room right now, and she said, we supposed to get married. I love this. So getting caught. Betty then moved to Toledo and reassumed the identity of Madame Lydia Devier. So she went back to one of her old names, and she's still a clairvoyant, but she knew the girls knew her as Madame de Vere in Cleveland. So she was like, I gotta go back to Madame de Vier. And one of her clients was a man named Joseph Lamb, who paid Betty $10,000 to serve as his financial adv as well as to do any favors that she asked. Okay. Betty employed Lamb in her schemes by forging promissory notes for several thousand dollars and telling him to cash it at his bank utilizing his excellent reputation. So she knew in Cleveland, the girls knew that she was a robber. She was like, I can't go to the bank. Around not allowed there anymore.

[Lacey Mosley]

They've got that little photograph up on the wall. Someone dupes.

[Nathan Kress]

I feel like they went to the horse, like in the horse and buggy to the Bank. And then she was like, I'mma wait in the car. I feed the horses. I'm on poop duty. I make sure I get the horse poop up. You go in there and cash it, though. Oh, Cassie was a bad bitch. Well, so he also cashed several more checks after totaling about $40,000 all in all, which, with inflation, 15,000 was around, what, $300,000. So this is like about a million dollars or, you know. So Betty was convicted of forgery, sentenced to nine and a half years in state penitentiary. While in prison, this is Cassie. You know Betty. Y'all know she continued to act as a clairvoyant. So in jail, she was like, I see myself getting out.

[Lacey Mosley]

Please don't tell me she convinced the guard that that was true.

[Nathan Kress]

I see you letting me out, reaching.

[Lacey Mosley]

Into that pocket and grabbing those keys. I see it. I see it so clearly.

[Nathan Kress]

I hope she was having visions. Like Raven Simone, when she just. Like.

[Lacey Mosley]

He'S just sitting there.

[Nathan Kress]

What's happening? No, I'm having a vision. That's me being free right now. I love this for her. So while in prison, she's still being a clairvoyant. So eventually, she pleaded remorse to Governor William McKinley. Eventually, he signed the papers for her release three and a half years into her. So I'm sure she was like, I'm so sorry. I'm a woman. We's crazy.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

I'm a witch.

[Nathan Kress]

I think with the psychic things, she could really lock down. I'm a witch. They'd be like, okay, we get it. We do get it. Okay. She was the first. Like, that's so Raven. Like, Raymond Savone. You stole her whole bag. So once she got out of the jail, Betty, Cassie, you know, all of her names. Mary Ellen, Lydia, Boomhy, Hilda. So she once got out of jail, her and her son moved into Dr. Chadwick's residence on Millionaire Row, a row of palatial estates on the aristocratic street in the city.

[Lacey Mosley]

Ooh, look at that.

[Nathan Kress]

Given gilded age.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

Oh, wow. Oh, it's beautiful.

[Lacey Mosley]

Stunning.

[Nathan Kress]

Randall's like, I live there. I go buy that home in Cleveland on Millionaire Row. I mean, let's give it Cleveland Millionaire. I guess.

[Lacey Mosley]

I guess. Yes. I guess that's how the millionaires lived.

[Nathan Kress]

Rural millionaires.

[Lacey Mosley]

Maybe it's got that flushing toilet, you know?

[Nathan Kress]

Ooh.

[Lacey Mosley]

Like, maybe it's all about the internals.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

Wait, how did she afford it? I didn't understand.

[Nathan Kress]

So she afforded it because her second husband, Hoover, had died and left 50 grand, she still had to go to.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

Jail for three of the nine years. But then she moved on to millionaires.

[Nathan Kress]

Yeah. Cause she stole 40,000 more dollars. And then they was like, you gotta go to jail now. And then when she got out, I guess she. She still has some coin.

[Lacey Mosley]

So was the God. Wow. Huh? Wow.

[Nathan Kress]

Oh, there it is. Oh, this is the whole row. Okay. It's giving millionaire. When you see the whole row. When I saw that one house, I was like, I don't know. It's giving a thousand heir.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yes.

[Nathan Kress]

Give a hundred heir. I'm a $10 heir. You know, we've all been a $10, a hundred heir. Not these two. Since they were child modeling.

[Lacey Mosley]

Not since that child modeling money.

[Nathan Kress]

The money's only going up.

[Lacey Mosley]

I was a hundred air like that. I was born a hundred air.

[Nathan Kress]

Born with a what? A plastic spoon in your mouth? Oh, my God. Hefty could never. So according to one acquaintance. Oh. And so like on a quick thing about millionaire row, it's a very aristocratic street in the city. And she quickly started spending large amounts of Dr. Chadwick's money in an attempt to enter the circle of the wealthy elite families that made up Cleveland. Families included the Rockefellers and U.S. senators.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

She made it, guys.

[Lacey Mosley]

Wow. She did it.

[Nathan Kress]

You really went forever, Randy. Like, I just wanted to win. She had true love. He died. She had to start scamming again. Like, this is a notebook.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

I've spun this whole story in my head.

[Nathan Kress]

I love it. So according to one acquaintance, if a thing didn't cost enough to suit her, she would order. Order it and throw it away. Oh, this kills Nathan.

[Lacey Mosley]

Oh, it hurts.

[Nathan Kress]

Probably the most responsible with money at this table. I think you're definitely close. Y'all might be tied. Actually, you're both pretty responsible with money. I'm trash.

[Lacey Mosley]

It makes me feel a little bit.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

Ill. Why would she throw it away?

[Nathan Kress]

Cause she was trying to show people. Like, this is an acquaintance saying this. So people are pulling up to her crib and she's like, ugh. A Faberge egg and red gob. She's trying to show people got it. And I guess that was how you flex is like you threw all your nice stuff in the.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

In the trash.

[Lacey Mosley]

How great would it be to be a person who just walks around at about 2:00 in the morning on Millionaire Row and just kind of grabs up all the stuff that rich people throw out. Cause it's not expensive enough.

[Nathan Kress]

Right.

[Lacey Mosley]

You could have a really nice little operation there.

[Nathan Kress]

I think a scam equivalent of that. Guys out there is like, go to Goodwills in really Expensive neighborhoods. Because a lot of times rich people want the tax write off of just, like, tossing away, like, a bunch of nice clothes and stuff. Cause they don't want to. You can find some, like, designer pieces. You can find some nice stuff if you, like, go in the nice areas. If you go to the Goodwill in the hood, you're gonna get hood Goodwill. But if you go to Goodwill in Beverly Hills, get Beverly Hills Goodwill if you like thrifting. I'm just saying that's the equivalent of Cassie throwing out her Faberge eggs. And you just outside and you catch it, like, thanks, ma'am.

[Lacey Mosley]

All right.

[Nathan Kress]

The neighbors were suspicious and kept away from Cassie. Little did anyone know, she had already begun her biggest scam yet. So they stayed away from her. You know how they'll be like, old money, new money. So Cassie was like, new money. They didn't know where her coins came from. So they were like, we don't. We don't associate with her. And, I mean, they were right. She was doing fry. But. So in 1903, she orchestrated an elaborate ruse to spread a rumor that she was the illegitimate daughter of the wealthy steel magnate Andrew Carnegie. Oh, if you don't know about Andrew Carnegie. I went to Pitt. So, like, Carnegie Mellon was right up the street. I performed at Carnegie Hall. Like, you know, he got a lot of stuff in Pittsburgh, and Pittsburgh is very close to Cleveland, Ohio. So, you know, she was like, oh, I'm actually. That's my uncle. Ashley is Andrew Carnegie. She let it slip to an acquaintance that daddy would send her large sums of money and had built her a large inheritance out of guilt. So she found the messiest person she knew and was like, don't tell nobody, girl.

[Lacey Mosley]

This is just between you and me.

[Nathan Kress]

You and me? Sh.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

Why do I feel like I should do it now? You and me, I, like, had to do it.

[Nathan Kress]

Why is it threatening when you do? It was in a horror movie. You and me. You and Full Smeagol. We were whispering.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

I had to take it a notch higher.

[Nathan Kress]

Do you guys have gossipy friends? Is there anybody in your friend group that, you know, you can't tell the full story or that you might, like, use to leak some information?

[Miranda Cosgrove]

Information.

[Lacey Mosley]

I generally just don't say anything. I'll just.

[Nathan Kress]

Why is it your mom.

[Lacey Mosley]

Your mom's got all the hot dogs.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

There's info I don't want out there. And I tell my mom, everyone will know by morning. Can't hold it in.

[Nathan Kress]

I love that. I don't know. Like, I, like, use gossip. I'll tell. Like, everybody knows all my business and everybody's business that I know, but it's like, one person, and she's in Jersey, my best friend. And, like, she's never out. Like, she's not gonna tell anybody. She's. She doesn't know anybody. So I gossip to her, but I don't have any. Like, there are people that I know that I can't tell anything. Like, I feel like I would be talking and, like, mid talk, they're, like, tweeting it.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

They're, like, typing it while you're talking.

[Nathan Kress]

I'm like, are you on Voice to Text?

[Lacey Mosley]

No, no, no. Wait a second. What is it? Go back, Go back.

[Nathan Kress]

Talk closer to the mic. You know, we get typos if you're not close to the mic, because Voice to Text loves a typo. If you ever want to sound drunk without being drunk, use Voice to Text. So many times, typos. So, you know, so she tells her messy friend, like, don't tell nobody, but I'm very rich. And so her reputation about her wealth allowed Betty, Cassie, everybody to begin a sort of Ponzi scheme with bank loans. So she would take out several loans and use them to pay off each other. So, like, using one credit card to pay off another credit card. She was also able to convince bankers and other wealthy community members to loan her money from their business and personal accounts, raking in over a million dollars total, which today would be over 32 million million.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

So this lady is an evil genius.

[Nathan Kress]

Yes.

[Lacey Mosley]

Wow.

[Nathan Kress]

Because she finally figured out you can't just straight up rob the bank. You gotta, like, rob Peter to pay Paul. So then eventually everybody thinks that they're getting paid back, or enough people think that they got their money back, that your reputation won't be ruined.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah. Word can't get around.

[Nathan Kress]

Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

Oh, wow.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

She got better as the years went by.

[Lacey Mosley]

I know. She really stepped up. Yeah. $15,000. Making it up to a million.

[Nathan Kress]

And isn't it so that people will give you money when they think you're rich, but they won't give you money when they think you're poor? And it's like, if you're rich, why you need my money?

[Lacey Mosley]

Right.

[Nathan Kress]

Because you got money over there. I thought you had money over there. What do you need my money for over here?

[Lacey Mosley]

Right, right.

[Nathan Kress]

That's how it works.

[Lacey Mosley]

It's. Oh, it's investing. Don't worry. It's totally. It's totally legit.

[Nathan Kress]

I mean, when Elon said that he wanted to buy Twitter, like, he used Tesla stocks As collateral, he took out credit for millions of dollars. And they're like, yeah, we'll give you millions of dollars to buy Twitter. Cause you're old and sad. Parts of it I hate, but parts of it I love. I want to be depressed and buy.

[Lacey Mosley]

Twitter when there's just nothing left to do.

[Nathan Kress]

Right now, I buy shoes. I'm like, I want to be sad one day. I'm like, hello, Jack. Jack. I call him through tears. Hey, Jack, I'm going through it. Can I have. Can I buy Twitter real quick? Crazy. Love it and hate it. So the jig was eventually up, and Betty was jailed again. Betty, Cassie, Cassie. Brenda's so sad when Cassie goes to jail.

[Lacey Mosley]

It's not such a bad thing when the person defrauds, the people go to jail.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

She tried so hard.

[Lacey Mosley]

She just put in so much effort. Darn it.

[Nathan Kress]

I love the motivational spirit. Miranda. She's like, oh, no. She was working so hard at crime. I thought she was gonna be successful at robbery. This is so sad. So she was. She was jailed after several bankers that had lent most of their personal fortunes realized she never intended to pay them back. Duh. What did you even lend it to her for? Vibes? What would you. Was she opening a business? I don't understand. I don't know.

[Lacey Mosley]

I'm always curious what the conversations really have to be. Like, how do you just convince that many people all in a row to give you that much money?

[Nathan Kress]

I think you have to come at it like, you don't really think it's that much money. Cause that gives people the confidence. Like, if I was like, yo, Nathan, let me hold $300. I'll give it right back. I don't got no cash. You know, you would be. I think that's more convincing than, Nathan, I really need $300. Right? Like, I really. If you just please, would I promise I'll pay you back? I'll do anything. You know, one of those sounds like, you got it. It's like, if we go to a restaurant or somewhere, and it's like, oh, I left my wallet at home. I'll venmo you. Like, we. None of us would be like, will you. You know, we wouldn't be like, let me get my QR code out right now.

[Lacey Mosley]

Can you do it before we leave?

[Nathan Kress]

Before I run my card? You venmo me right now. I need to see the money. But, you know, like, we wouldn't care. So it's like, if you're talking to other rich people, then once you start making you start to forget how much money is worth. Which is the problem that we have with people who are insanely rich and hoarding wealth is like, they don't under. They don't know what a banana costs or like a gallon of milk. They don't know. You know what I mean? Like, sometimes $10,000 can feel like a hundred dollars if you're making enough money. So she was probably just like, I don't know, you know, throw me a little meal or whatever. Yeah, you know how I do. I'm Cassie. You know I'm good for it. My daddy. My daddy got it. Andrew Carnegie, you know him. You know my daddy. God, he got all the money in the world in his hands. Okay, don't worry. So one bank, Citizen national bank of Oberlin, ended up bankrupted after it had lent her $800,000. And this is olden time.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

She bankrupted a bank.

[Nathan Kress]

Yes.

[Lacey Mosley]

Single handedly.

[Nathan Kress]

You bankrupt a bank. Bank is right in that. In bankrupt. That's supposed to be how you bankrupt a bank. Bank. Imagine going to your bank and you have money at that bank and they done loaned it to this bad Cassie. You. You go in and take out your little coins and they're like, ashley, we closing the doors. You go to. The bank's got a close.

[Lacey Mosley]

They just hand out Cassie's card. Be like, your money's at this address. You're gonna need to go to Cassie's house.

[Nathan Kress]

Right?

[Lacey Mosley]

She has all of the money.

[Nathan Kress]

Her card says rich. So we hope that you get. We can't. We can't tell you that's actually so deeply irresponsible like of a bank. Because the bank loaned her essentially other people's money. Because that's what banks do. They hold your money. They don't want you to spend it. They want to be able to give your money to somebody else as a loan and then charge interest on it so they can make more money.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

So she took everyone's money.

[Nathan Kress]

She took everybody's money.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

Why would. How can you convince a bank to give all the money to only you?

[Lacey Mosley]

I don't know. Where is that manager? Who's the guy? Who's the guy who looked at that balance sheet and said, huh? Well, there's nothing in the vault. And we gave it all to one person. I think, I think there's something wrong here.

[Nathan Kress]

You go in the vault where all the gold and money supposed to be. It's just a janitor sweeping like. Yeah, we ain't had nothing in here.

[Lacey Mosley]

Much sticky note on the table, right? I'm totally good for it.

[Nathan Kress]

I owe you one bank. That's crazy. So it wasn't until Betty. Cassie denied all connection with Andrew Carnegie that they realized that that was a lie too. So she had been tell. She was like this. My. This my daddy, he love me, but I'm a bastard. She had a whole spicy story, Game.

[Lacey Mosley]

Of Thrones in it, right?

[Nathan Kress]

This reminds me of like Arnold Schwarzenegger because, you know, he had that wife with his housekeeper. I mean, that baby with that wife. I said he had that wife with his housekeeper. Child need to go to bed. He had that baby with his housekeeper. So, you know, scandal. I love a scandal. So in 1905, we're getting to the end of this, guys. In 1905, Cassie Chadwick, she was found guilty of conspiracy to defraud a national bank and conspiracy against the government, and was sentenced to 10 years in prison.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

That's it? That's all she had?

[Lacey Mosley]

That is light.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

Cause by now she's like 30 something.

[Nathan Kress]

We got a mugshot up here.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

Oh, no, she's not 30.

[Nathan Kress]

She's like, yeah, she was.

[Lacey Mosley]

No, that might be what 30 looked like back then. I'm not sure. Those were harder times.

[Nathan Kress]

They were. They were much harder. Wait, Cassie, you skipping elderly?

[Miranda Cosgrove]

You know what's weird? She looks harder when she was younger. Like, she looks like she softened up a bit in her old age.

[Nathan Kress]

But you know what? She was richer when she got arrested because she stole the equivalent of $32 million. So she living good.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

She's been living the good life.

[Nathan Kress]

She eating good.

[Lacey Mosley]

She was moisturizing for sure.

[Nathan Kress]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

That's why she was able to crack a smile.

[Nathan Kress]

Yeah, she probably could live through a cold. She probably had that good.

[Lacey Mosley]

Scurvy free all year round, baby.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

Don't tell me she died in jail, did she?

[Nathan Kress]

Miranda is so invested. She's like, did she find love again? Prison love. I'll take it.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

Give me something.

[Lacey Mosley]

Has Nicholas Sparks adapted this story yet?

[Nathan Kress]

Come on, give me. So Andrew Carnegie himself attended the trial that just to see her face, just.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

To see his bastard child.

[Nathan Kress]

If he intended, I would've been like.

[Lacey Mosley]

Daddy, that was your one last hope right there.

[Nathan Kress]

They didn't have DNA tests. And you can't tell me Andrew Carnegie, the steel millionaire, wasn't out here fucking. Come on now. It's a chance, it's a light chance that they sent her mama away to one of them laundry places.

[Lacey Mosley]

The horse who had sex, they could have. At least she could have shaved off several years off that sentence by just leaning into the dad thing saying, see, he came, right? That's the evidence.

[Nathan Kress]

No, we're absolutely right. She should have. If the second he stepped into court, I would have been like, daddy, Papa, I forgive you. I forgive you. Thank you for coming. I knew you'd come. I knew you'd come. Make it seem like you're in on it. And I point to him and be like, he got it, he good, we good for it. And just like you try to run out the door, what they gonna do? Oh, gosh. But yeah. So he pulled up and was like, I gotta see this woman's face who've been lying. So according to him, the whole thing could have been avoided if anyone had asked him, stating, why have I not signed a note in the last 30 years? Like he was saying, like everyone knew about this rumor, talked about it amongst each other behind his back all the time. Like basically Andrew would walk into the room, everybody would be like, oh, hello, what's up? Hello, Andrew. They like, yeah, he was sleeping with this woman and they sent her away to the Looney B cuz she had a baby. And that's a cash. Oh, Andrew. Yeah, what's up? No, we got you a seat right here. Sit down.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah, you were just talking about money. Money, money, money.

[Nathan Kress]

You want some loaves and fishes? Yeah. No, we got you. Is that too far back? I guess that's biblical.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

Loaves and fishes.

[Lacey Mosley]

How old was Andrew Carnegie?

[Nathan Kress]

40 years old. No, in the 1900s. What were they eating?

[Miranda Cosgrove]

What were they eating?

[Nathan Kress]

I have no clue. I don't know. Grapes. You always see that in olden time.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

Before rich people with grapes.

[Nathan Kress]

Yeah, rich people definitely had grapes.

[Lacey Mosley]

You know rich people with their grapes.

[Nathan Kress]

Oh, they love the grapes.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

Fermented or fed grapes near grapes. Holding grapes.

[Nathan Kress]

What was that a thing? Bowls with grapes.

[Lacey Mosley]

Someone holding a grape over their face.

[Nathan Kress]

Slowly lowering it down. Mo grapes.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

Like grapes licking a grape. It was really weird back then.

[Nathan Kress]

It was a real flex. If you didn't have no grapes, are you even rich?

[Lacey Mosley]

Big grape was killing it back then.

[Nathan Kress]

Big grape energy. On October 10, 1907, Cassie Chadwick died on her birthday. I'm sorry, Miranda. At age 50. Did she live pretty long?

[Lacey Mosley]

Oh my gosh.

[Nathan Kress]

That was a 50 year old in a prison cell. A so luxurious it rivaled Al Capone's. What?

[Miranda Cosgrove]

So her prison cell was amazing?

[Nathan Kress]

Yes. I guess they didn't try to seize her assets. Maybe that was before the F. The B and the I decided they were the repo man. Cause now they come back and get all your shit. If you Break the law, they be like, all right, Miranda, we'll be taking that necklace. You can also come up off that shirt.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

In the olden days you were allowed to bring your, your belongings to your cell.

[Nathan Kress]

Like they could like pay, you know, Cause a prison is for profit, so they could like pay put money on your books or like give you accoutre bone.

[Lacey Mosley]

You paid in points for the upgrade to business class.

[Nathan Kress]

Because when rich people go to jail, they be having Xboxes, they be having the best food, they not eating ramen and making jail laffy taffy on TikTok. They living good man.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

So even if you stole the money to get rich, you could use the money to live a better life.

[Lacey Mosley]

They defrauded the government, but the government is going to allow you to stay in jail in really kush setup with the government that you defrauded from them.

[Nathan Kress]

I think that at that point they weren't hip the government, cuz the government is a scam. And I think they started realizing like, oh yeah, we're the government, we could just rob them back and at least get some of the money back. And it's never gonna go to who actually got robbed. We just go take it and sell it at an auction and keep it for government money.

[Lacey Mosley]

Right?

[Nathan Kress]

That's like literally what raids are like when police like do no knock warrants, which is why we don't want them anymore. It's literally so that they can pull up on gang bangers and hopefully come up on a bunch of cash. And like, there's no way to account for how much cash these gang bangers have. So they turn in some, but they pocket a lot, you know what I mean? It's like they're basically. It's like they're like Black Friday at Walmart. You know, they show up at 5am, they knock the doors down, they fight everybody and they steal as much as they can. But at this point, the government did. I don't know if this like they didn't get enough restitution from this woman, but obviously she was living lavish, man. Which I.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

They could live with that ending.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah, I think that's a satisfactory Miranda Cosgrove resolution to.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

She didn't have it all. She was in jail, she did some time for the bad stuff.

[Lacey Mosley]

She said she still had some.

[Nathan Kress]

This is before the times where the government would be like, Miranda, we're using your hand over the little vacuum. That could be little vacuum, anything.

[Lacey Mosley]

But that.

[Nathan Kress]

That's literally the thing that she's like holding on to, like fighting with the FBI. No, you can take everything. Everything. But not my baby vacuum.

[Lacey Mosley]

That's part of her plea deal for sure. I'll plead guilty to everything. Just let me go to jail with my vacuum.

[Nathan Kress]

Miranda. They took the car though. You don't even need the baby vacuum.

[Lacey Mosley]

It's for the corners of the cell. It gets into all those cracks and crevices.

[Nathan Kress]

Raider's in jail with a baby vacuum.

[Lacey Mosley]

The world's most meticulous jail cell you've ever seen in your life.

[Nathan Kress]

Frothing and fraud. And we're back, and it's time for scammer of the week. Last tiniest segment of the show before I. I let these icons go. This has been so fun. I feel like we're like back at work again, which is.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

I know.

[Lacey Mosley]

I feel like we're on lunch break right now, right?

[Nathan Kress]

We had some good lunch breaks. So. A Florida man was charged with 114 counts of various fraud after he was caught in an alleged decades long scheme to defraud Florida State's division of unclaimed property. So you know how, like, if you don't cash a check or like you don't get a check, like there's a website you can go on and see if you have checks that never got to you or didn't come to your house, and then if you put in your information, they'll mail you the checks like, and you can cash them.

[Lacey Mosley]

Right.

[Nathan Kress]

So they have sort of like those kinds of things for like unclaimed property too. So Alvaro Abiru, 38, claimed more than $2 million worth of property.

[Lacey Mosley]

Wow.

[Nathan Kress]

Come on, Alvaro.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

He was born in the wrong time. He should have ended up with Cassie's daddy.

[Lacey Mosley]

They could have been great together.

[Nathan Kress]

Alvaro is kind of cute. He gives our own property.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah, that smile says, trust me, it's giving landlord.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

He doesn't really look like a criminal or anything.

[Nathan Kress]

No, I would give him the property also. If it's unclaimed, then why can't he claim it?

[Lacey Mosley]

Right?

[Nathan Kress]

This country was like what was claimed by people when people were living here. And then Christopher Columbus and the rest of the colonizers was like, we gonna claim it again? Like, come on now. What's the statute on colonizing? We need to define that. Why could you do that? In the 1800s, you could go stick a flag somewhere and be like, this is mine now. Like, we did that shit to the moon. It's like, can I own the moon? Like, why you get to own the moon? This don't seem fair.

[Lacey Mosley]

If an astronaut can go up and Claim the moon. I can go to a state's unclaimed property program and just say, look, no one else is gonna take it, right? I'll take your junk off your hands. I'm doing you a favor.

[Nathan Kress]

Unclaimed, right? That sounds like, available to me. Free. Open.

[Lacey Mosley]

We're looking at a lost and found right now, right?

[Nathan Kress]

And everybody knows after a while that a lost and found, you can get in there and just take what you want.

[Lacey Mosley]

That's right. If you go back by, you've gone four times, and it's still there.

[Nathan Kress]

Wait. I mean, exactly. Wait. That's actually surprising to me, Nathan, because I feel like you'd be the one who just, like, leave it in there.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

Forever and be like, they might come back someday.

[Lacey Mosley]

I know that. That is what I would do.

[Nathan Kress]

Writing letters and look at postage. Like, one day they'll find this North Face hoodie.

[Lacey Mosley]

I was just trying to. I was trying to sound cool. That's totally what I would do.

[Nathan Kress]

Oh, you are cool, Nathan. It's okay to follow rules. Somebody has to. Yeah, if nobody follows rules, then I have. I can't break them. I need everybody to follow the rules.

[Lacey Mosley]

So I don't have to, you know? Division.

[Nathan Kress]

So the division of unclaimed property is responsible for holding onto and facilitating the return of valuables to Floridians who may have forgotten about it, like old bank accounts or abandoned safe deposit boxes. Wow. So he's getting, like, the money money. So Alvaro often used fake names and the names of dead people to forge documents in order to wrongly claim unclaimed property. I'm sorry. If you're dead, then, like, it's not yours anymore. You are dead. I can't own anything when I'm dead. What am I supposed to do when I'm dead?

[Lacey Mosley]

Right. That I don't. I'm feeling less and less like he's close to doing a public service. He's helping the state save on stories, storage costs is what I'm hearing.

[Nathan Kress]

Right. And also, like, if it's unclaimed, you're just gonna let it sit there. Valuable resources and not let someone use them?

[Lacey Mosley]

Reduce, reuse, recycle. He's trying to save the planet from the dead people's stuff.

[Nathan Kress]

Is he? Greta Gerwig. That's not her. That's the lady from the movie. Huh? Greta Thunberg.

[Lacey Mosley]

Greta. Carol.

[Nathan Kress]

Y'all be sounding dumb out here sometimes. Greta Toneberg. Y'all know what I'm talking about.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah.

[Nathan Kress]

So he first started this scam in April of 1999, and he was not caught until March of 2020. He would file claims and then deposit the money received into any of his many bank accounts for his fake companies. He had been released on $178,000 bond, which obviously he got. Well, he got 2 million at least, so obviously he got 178,000. Free this man. Free Alvaro. Like, what are we gonna put him in jail for? Jail costs taxpayers money. You telling me I gotta pay money for him claiming dead people's things?

[Lacey Mosley]

Right?

[Nathan Kress]

Like, we should all claim dead people's things. They should just hand that shit out.

[Lacey Mosley]

I mean, what did they do to grave robbers back in the day? This is just.

[Nathan Kress]

I mean, they did try to give. If they caught them, they would put them in jail. Oh, yeah. Cause you said it. Essentially, it's a grave robbery.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah, well, yeah, but.

[Nathan Kress]

But also, like, you're dead. Like, how you gonna. When I go to court, like, who is it the people versus? Or is it like the dead dude versus me? Like, he dead.

[Lacey Mosley]

Maybe the ghost comes and just sits at the desk and is like, I object.

[Nathan Kress]

Ghost v. Robber. Right? Like, if you. I'm sorry. If you get buried in some gold and whatnot, you know, we gonna have to rob you. This seems fair.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

Why do you think the family members don't claim the stuff?

[Lacey Mosley]

Maybe they just don't know.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

Yeah, you never knew.

[Nathan Kress]

Sometimes they're not close to people. Like, you might have a distant uncle.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

Who, like you, you haven't talked to in a really long time.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah.

[Nathan Kress]

So that's the lesson to all of us. Get in contact with all your distant relatives.

[Lacey Mosley]

Relatives, you never know who's dead and loaded.

[Nathan Kress]

Call up your great uncle Marvin and ask if he has any property or.

[Lacey Mosley]

If he has any plans to die anytime soon.

[Nathan Kress]

How you feeling about life, Uncle Marvin? Good.

[Lacey Mosley]

Do you intend to remain unmarried and childless for the foreseeable future? And so your assets will be available at the time of your death if.

[Nathan Kress]

You were to rate life from one to five, with one being the worst and five being the best. Where you. How long you wanna stay alive? Well, guys, that brings us to the end of a very fun episode. Thank you guys so much for coming and being here with Nonsense. We always ask on this podcast, where would you like to be found? Anything you wanna promote? Anywhere you want to be found.

[Lacey Mosley]

That's such a deep question.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

Where would you like to be found? I was taking it on a deep level too. I thought you meant, like, when you died, where would you. I was like, this is such a weird way to wrap up the episode.

[Lacey Mosley]

It gets so dark.

[Nathan Kress]

So where would she like to be buried?

[Lacey Mosley]

Where would your body, if you were gonna be discovered anywhere? What cool location would your dead body, your corpse, want to be shown?

[Miranda Cosgrove]

Like, all these things were going through my head.

[Lacey Mosley]

I was thinking like the La Brea Tar Pits or something cool, you know?

[Nathan Kress]

You have a specific thing in mind, Nathan? I don't know.

[Lacey Mosley]

It seemed cool.

[Nathan Kress]

I feel like that was too quick.

[Lacey Mosley]

Former child model Nathan Crash was discovered at the La Brea Trail Tar Pits.

[Nathan Kress]

Okay, that headline kind of hit, right?

[Lacey Mosley]

Come on. That's old Hollywood, baby.

[Nathan Kress]

That is old Hollywood. Okay, that's kind of cute. Okay, where would you actually be found? No, no, no, no.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

But like former child model Miranda Cosgrove found at Disneyland.

[Lacey Mosley]

That's accurate.

[Nathan Kress]

Yeah, it is.

[Lacey Mosley]

Statistically, you probably wouldn't.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

Shelter is exactly where you her vacuuming her Prius. I don't know.

[Nathan Kress]

That was never the question. I want to make that clear.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

Okay. I want people to watch the last episode of the show. Is this going to air before that?

[Nathan Kress]

It's going to air as it's streaming.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

Okay, awesome. So the whole second season would be nice.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yes. That's where we can gonna go big. I. Carly.

[Nathan Kress]

One episode.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

Just one episode. Please.

[Nathan Kress]

Please, baby.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

Just the finale episode. You don't even have to know what's going on.

[Nathan Kress]

No, you gotta Cassie Chadwick this. Act like you're ask him to watch everything from the original to some reboot.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

To the most recent episode.

[Lacey Mosley]

Gonna get those numbers up. Okay. And then what about social medias for you?

[Miranda Cosgrove]

Oh, I have an Instagram.

[Lacey Mosley]

What?

[Miranda Cosgrove]

I do. Yeah, not a lot of people have that.

[Nathan Kress]

Whoa.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

And it's under my name, Miranda Cosgrove.

[Nathan Kress]

Yes. If you wanna see some pictures of her in that clean car, you can see em. How about you treat.

[Lacey Mosley]

My social is for me. Twitter and Instagram. Nathan Kress. And then my podcast, Radioactive Dads is on Idobe Radio every Wednesday at 3pm Pacific, 6pm Eastern, or anywhere you get your podcasts. Yeah, me and my buddy just talk about being dads and shoot the breeze.

[Nathan Kress]

Isn't that so great? Nathan's such a great dad, Such a fantastic dad. Doing my best with the cutest kids. I mean, London's clearly the better part, obviously, 100%, but you're doing a lot.

[Lacey Mosley]

The best that I can. And London is doing everything else to fill in all of the places where I just am, you know?

[Nathan Kress]

Nathan, you're exceptional. Even to regular terms, you're a great dad. But also, like, if you ever worry, the bar is on the floor in Los Angeles. When you drive around, there are billboards that are like, take time to be a dad. Have you seen your child? Talk to them today.

[Lacey Mosley]

Sing them a song, read them a.

[Nathan Kress]

Book, hug your son. These are advertisements. That's why you see Coca Cola. You see Paramount plus, and you just see, like, do your job. Have you played catch with your son.

[Lacey Mosley]

In the last year?

[Nathan Kress]

And you never see those for women. It's never, like, take time to be a mom. Like, it's just expected. But dads are like, please don't. Like, when you left the house, go back there.

[Lacey Mosley]

I wonder if a dad's driving along the street and sees a billboard and goes, oh, shoot. That's right. Oh, dang it. I forgot to be a dad today. Doggone it.

[Nathan Kress]

Damn it. I got a Siri. Make sure. Put a reminder in my calendar to be a dad. I got y'all. No. And, guys, as always, you can snitch on your friends and family. Just hit up the podcast and Scam got his pot of gp gmail.com. just make sure your scam is retired because we don't want to fuck up your back, y'all. I love the dms. I love the tweets. I will engage with y'all. But if you're dming me your scam, it's not gonna get right on the show. So go ahead and hit copy paste and email it to the podcast, please. I'm not gonna open up, but I do respond to comments. And then, guys, if you wanna follow me and my shenanigans, D I V A L A C I Divalacy on all platforms. All of season two of iCarly is streaming now on Paramount plus get into it. Yes. Congress. Segregation. Stay. Cassie ing or Betty ing Broomhilding?

[Lacey Mosley]

Madame Marie.

[Nathan Kress]

Madame Marie devereauing.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

Was there a Lydia?

[Nathan Kress]

Yeah, there was a Madame Lydia.

[Lacey Mosley]

Inc. Lydia Devereaux. Marie Rosa.

[Nathan Kress]

Rosa. Yeah. Madame Marie Rosa Devereaux. Lydia ing.

[Lacey Mosley]

You got a lot of things to choose from. You can ing just about anybody you want at this point.

[Nathan Kress]

Stay Chadwicking. Bye Bye. Scam Goddess. This has been an Earwolf production in association with Team Coco. Scam Goddess stars and is hosted by me, Lacey Mosley, AKA Scam Goddess. It's produced by Judith Kargbo, engineered by Marina Paiz and researched by Kalen Brandt. Stay scheming.

[Lacey Mosley]

This has been a Team Coco production.

[Nathan Kress]

In association with Earwolf.

[Lacey Mosley]

Hey, I'm Paul Scheer.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

I'm June Diane Rayfield.

[Lacey Mosley]

And I'm Jason Manzoukas. And we're the hosts of how did this Get Made? A comedy podcast where we deconstruct, make fun of, and celebrate the best worst movies ever made. Have you ever seen a movie that's so bad that it's actually good? That's what we're talking about.

[Miranda Cosgrove]

From blockbuster franchises and made for TV.

[Lacey Mosley]

Romances to bonkers 80s action flicks and obscure sci fi musicals, we cover it all. You can find how did this Get Made? Wherever you get your podcasts and don't forget to follow the show so you never miss an episode. Idiot. In a world of dry eye, there's a long lasting solution that can save the day. Presenting Sustain Complete Preservative Free. Its unique formula gives 8 hours of relief from the common symptoms of dry eye. Sustain Complete Open your eyes to lasting relief.