Holy Hypocrites & CON-version Crooks w/ Tan France

Summary

Scam Goddess – "Holy Hypocrites & CON-version Crooks" w/ Tan France (June 30, 2026)

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Episode Overview

This episode of Scam Goddess, hosted by Laci Mosley, features first-time guest Tan France (of "Queer Eye," "Honorable Gays," "Next in Fashion," and more). Together they offer hilarious, incisive commentary on scammers, hypocrisy, and the con artists within homophobic religious and political circles—particularly those who rail against LGBTQ+ rights, only to be revealed as closeted and perpetrating worse crimes. The conversation spans from self-care scams to the deeply damaging fraud of “conversion therapy,” blending comedy, serious critique, and plenty of tea.

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Key Segments & Topics

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1. Guest Introduction & Banter

[01:30–06:38]

• Laci welcomes Tan France, listing his TV credits and poking fun at his youthful appearance and style evolution.
• Fun chat about hair dye, fake humility, and the universal crisis of impulse bangs.
  • Tan France (03:44): "I know my skin's tight. I'm 43 and it looks pretty darn good. And I've now got weirdly blonde hair, but it's a very full head of hair, so I know I've got that going for me."
  • Laci Mosley (06:12): "Life gets hard. And sometimes a girl needs blinders, okay? She needs something right in front of her eyes."

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2. Segment: Is It A Scam, Scheme, or Real Thing?

[06:38–36:36]

Laci presents Tan with three cultural phenomena to judge as scams, schemes, or real things:

A. Multi-Step Skincare Routines

[07:27–14:46]

• Tan is fiercely pro–multi-step routine, but agrees with Laci that it can cross into scam territory when skincare brands and facialists overpromise based on genetics and upselling products.
  • Tan (08:16): "Five is basic. If you're not doing the five basic and you've got problem skin, like, that's your problem, not mine."
• Both discuss the allure and likely over-hype of devices like red light masks and steamers; Tan calls out the upselling at facial appointments as the real scam.
  • Laci (10:01): "At one point I think I had like a 12 step skincare routine... And my skin started to react and was like, girl, girl."
  • Tan (12:21): "Also, I think that LED red light might also be a scam."
• Discussion closes with the reminder that diet, gut health, and genetics play big roles—products are only part of the equation.

B. Fast Fashion & Dupes

[15:45–22:36]

• Tan, as a former designer, decries big brands and fast fashion companies for copying smaller creatives—calls it a “duo” scam (hurting both designer and customer).
  • Tan (17:19): "That's a scam because you're fucking with my money...there's people aren't just buying my shit now because mine's slightly more expensive than your shitty quality version."
• Laci agrees that small designer ripoffs are a scam, but recognizes that making high style accessible (eg. via Steve Madden) is arguably a “scheme,” not the customer’s fault.
  • Laci (18:56): "Scamming up like that, that doesn't bother me because the rich company is still getting their consumers... But...being a small creator and then them taking from...now, that's where it gets very scammy for me."
• Both bemoan designer "distressed" trends, the price of fashion “looking like you fell in a bin at Goodwill,” and exalt resourcefulness over label-chasing.

C. Free Trials (Streaming, Apps, etc.)

[30:48–36:36]

• Universally denounced as a scam, especially when credit card details are required and cancellations are hard to track or hidden.
  • Tan (31:24): "It's a total scam...they always want your credit card details. Always."
  • Laci (32:18): "Go in there, look at subscriptions and see what you're subscribed to and look down the list because you'd be surprised something might still be charging you."
• Pro tips: set reminders, check for recurring charges, use a spam email for sign-ups.
• Anecdote: Laci’s classic “Type B” chaos story about losing her car keys, proving the challenges of reminders and organization.

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3. Main Event: Historic Hoodwinks – Hypocrites, Conversion Therapy, and Closet Scams

[36:36–86:50]

A. Content Warning:

[37:11]

• Laci prefaces this section: the segment triggers involve sexual misconduct with a minor (details not dwelled on or described). Main focus is on the hypocrisy and fraud of so-called “ex-gay” activists.

B. Alan Chambers (Exodus International)

[38:24–61:48]

• Alan Chambers, former head of “ex-gay” ministry Exodus International, was arrested for soliciting an undercover officer posing as a minor. Had built a career around “gay cure” fraud and repression.
  • Laci (42:32): "They love to put an international after it...Christians are, we're the absolute worst when it comes to like spreading religion. Like nobody asked you to convert them. Like stay at home..."
  • Tan (43:04): "Their slogan was Change is possible. That's not very inspiring."
• Both hosts discuss how these groups prey on vulnerable people, with slogans like “Change is Possible” and wild “therapies” (from prayer to castration).
• Tan jokes about conversion therapy camps as (tragically) the only place “everyone’s gay.”
  • Tan (51:04): "As a kid I thought, whoa, I want to go to one of those cause everyone's gay and I'm probably going to meet my husband."
• “Conversion therapy” is labeled as consumer fraud after a New Jersey court case: people leave just as gay as they arrived.
  • Laci (53:12): "It's legally considered consumer fraud because you're not getting what you pay for. You leave just as gay as you can."
• Tan fantasizes about joining a class-action suit for refunds ("I am still gay! Give me my money back!")—again hitting home the absurdity and damage of the scam.

C. Exodus International Founders

[62:26]

• The two founders, Michael Bussee and Gary Cooper, eventually divorced their wives and entered a relationship with each other, later issuing apologies for their involvement in anti-gay policies.
  • Laci (63:45): "They left the group to be in a relationship with each other in 1979."
• Laci rails against the pattern of white men projecting personal pain onto the world.
  • Laci (64:09): "I am so exhausted with a white man's personal problem, Their own self doubt or self hatred...having to become the world's problem."

D. Other Anti-Gay Hypocrites: Gallery of Historic Frauds

[67:18–84:44]

• Dr. George Riekers: Paid as an “expert” to keep gay people from adopting, caught vacationing with a male escort from rentboy.com, claims the escort was for “carrying luggage.”
  • Tan (68:22): "Did anyone look at his hard drive...did they find kitty porn on there? Ding, ding, ding."
  • Laci (69:43): "You know how you gotta go on rental boy.com Europe and then they carry your luggage bag."
• Richard 'Dick' Curtis: Washington state legislator who crusaded against rights for queer people, then was caught hiring a male escort and refusing to pay.
  • Laci (73:58): "And after which Richard. Dick. Excuse me, Dick. Fell asleep. The escort said Dick agreed to pay him $1,000 for the sex and then reneged on the deal."
  • Tan (75:54): "Why are you in politics? That's like me trying to pretend I'm straight with the job that I do. People would find out in a heartbeat."
• Both call out the performative entertainment value of politics and how closeted queers migrate toward it; “DC is Hollywood for ugly people.”
• Ted Haggard: Mega-church preacher, viciously anti-gay, got caught with meth and a male sex worker (2006), and again in 2022. Commentary on “mega-church” as scam corporations.
  • Laci (79:02): "Once the church gets to the word mega...if I can't leave, it's a corporation. And shake my pastor's hand...this is too large of a...it's literally just a corporation."

E. General Discussion: Bigotry, Projection, and Community Harm

• Riffing on why bigots’ obsessions are usually about their own repressed issues.
• Misogynist and white male entitlement called out repeatedly as root cause for suffering inflicted on others.
• Strong consensus: outed hypocrites are not owed a “homecoming” in the queer community.
  • Laci (77:29): "You can live in the truth and maybe find you some bigoted homosexuals to hang out with, but I don't want to see you at Pride. You have a nasty spirit."

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4. Closing Segment: Final Thoughts & Plugs

[86:42–87:51]

• Laci thanks Tan for his candidness, "gossip," and wit. Tan plugs "Honorable Gays" on YouTube.
• Laci promotes Scam Goddess (podcast & book), and encourages listeners: "Get out there and stay out of the closet!"

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Tan France (31:24): "If you're asking for any of my details, even just my email, because you're going to bombard my email... If you're not asking for anything in return, you're just like, enjoy this for a week, bitch. I'm like, oh, you're a real one. But no one's ever doing that."
• Laci Mosley (38:55): "If you're anti abortion, if you're anti gay... I don't know where y' all find time to hate. Okay, I gotta do my laundry. I don't got time to be a bigot."
• Laci Mosley (53:12): "It's legally considered consumer fraud because you're not getting what you pay for. You leave just as gay as you came in."
• Tan France (84:16): "That's my biggest gripe. Don't hate on your own fucking community. Don't make it worse for people just because it's bad for you."
• Laci Mosley (86:22): "If you go back, be closeted, please be in an enclosed space with the door closed alone. How you gonna be outside bothering people for that freedom?"

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Timestamps | |------------------------------------------------|--------------------| | Guest intro and banter | 01:30–06:38 | | Is It A Scam / Multi-step Skincare | 07:27–14:46 | | Fast fashion/dupes | 15:45–22:36 | | Free trials/subscriptions | 30:48–36:36 | | Historic Hoodwinks intro | 36:36–38:24 | | Alan Chambers / Exodus International | 38:24–61:48 | | Exodus founders' romance | 62:26–66:21 | | Dr. George Riekers and the rentboy scandal | 67:18–71:54 | | Richard “Dick” Curtis legislator sex worker | 72:22–77:24 | | Ted Haggard (Mega-church meth/sex scandal) | 78:03–85:16 | | Final thoughts and plugs | 86:42–87:51 |

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Tone & Takeaways

The episode weaves Laci and Tan's signature humor and self-deprecation with sharp, righteous anger at hypocrisy, systematized homophobia, and the damage done by closet cases in power. They maintain a strong, affirming stance for queer listeners, offering both cathartic laughter and communal solidarity. The underlying message: the truth (and reality of one’s identity) always emerges; collective resilience is its own form of scam-busting.

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Host: Laci Mosley

Guest: Tan France

Main lesson: Bigots projecting their own issues onto society are the ultimate scam, but their comeuppance—and the exposure of hypocrites—can unite and empower the scammed. Stay out of the closet and stay scheming!

Transcript

[Lacey Mosley]

Okay, mom, for my dorm, I'm thinking Coquette meets Poet Core.

[Tan France]

That sounds like a vibe.

[Lacey Mosley]

What do you need and where do we get it?

[Tan France]

Target.

[Lacey Mosley]

I already have everything on my mood board. A comforter, pillows, and a super cute floral lamp. So you probably need a rug to tie it all together. Omg. They have the perfect CMPC rug. Cmpc. Coquette meets Poet Core. Oh, okay. In that case, let's rtt. Yeah, let's run to Target. You're getting it. Find your dorm, inspiration and everything you need at Target.

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[Ad Voice 2]

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[Ad Voice 1]

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[Lacey Mosley]

Scam cause robbery and fraud Scam Cause Robbery and fraud Scam Goddess what's poppin? Congregation, it's your girl, Lacey Mosley, AKA Scam Goddess, back with another episode of the comedy podcast all about robbery fraud and those who practice it. Sometimes we love them, sometimes we hate them along the way. But guests, you already know why I call y' all guests at this point, y' all are guests on the show as much as y' all comment and send messages and DMs and emails. And I appreciate that. Congregation, y' all know I'm very. What? Yes, Excited, thrilled. Elated for our first time guest today. You may have seen him on Honorable Gays where he alongside Rob Anderson and Eric Sedenio, Judge Messi, Reddit drama. And you certainly have heard and seen him on Queer Eye. Next in fashion, Deli boys, heads will roll, Princess power and so much more Congregation, please welcome first timer, and certainly hopefully not the last Tan friends to the show. Hi, Tan.

[Tan France]

Hi, love. How are ya?

[Lacey Mosley]

I'm doing great.

[Tan France]

That was a gorgeous intro.

[Lacey Mosley]

Thank you. We like to give the girls our flowers, okay? And I've been watching you on TV forever, so it's so lovely to chat with you in person.

[Tan France]

I've got a feeling. I joined TV when you were three because that skin, skin's making you look like you're a child. And I know, I know you are. You're very young. I've only been on TV for 10 years. I just need you to know I'm not that old.

[Lacey Mosley]

Being on TV for 10 years is like, I mean, well, you started when you were a zygote, you know what I mean? They took you out of the womb and they said, this face television. Okay? So tan is a baby.

[Tan France]

That's not true. If the audience is listening, you don't know what I look like. Just Google it and you'll see. That's not true. I had a face for radio.

[Lacey Mosley]

No, no, absolutely not. But we love the humility. We love a little fake, humble moment. Okay? You know, you're giving the girls hope that maybe one day they'll have skin like tan. Okay? They'll have that full, luscious head of hair.

[Tan France]

I will say this. I know my skin's tight. I'm 43 and it looks pretty darn good. And I've now got weirdly blonde hair, but it's a very full head of hair, so I know I've got that going for me.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yes. And tan, this is also not a concerning blonde. Sometimes, like when my homeboys will go blonde, I'd be like, is something going on in your life? Like, it's just like a very wide known thing.

[Tan France]

In certain gay communities.

[Lacey Mosley]

If you see somebody dye their hair bleach blonde, you'd be like, what happened to you?

[Tan France]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mine's a gray blonde. Mine's like, oh, was he naturally blonde? The answer is no. South Asians are not naturally blonde.

[Lacey Mosley]

You are now, okay? Boxware, boxwear. It's like women with bangs. If one of our homegirls cuts their bangs, we're like, what ha? What did he do? What did she do? What's going on.

[Tan France]

I need you to know that straight girls will always ask their gay friends. And let me tell you, the gays have told you enough. Don't do it. They look great for a little while, but you're gonna cry to us when it's not looking good. When they're grown out, it's every like. It's. It's textbook three.

[Lacey Mosley]

We're gonna do it anyway.

[Tan France]

Insufferable. That's the one issue I think the gays have with their female friends. We love our feet. I love my girls. I'm a girl's gay. 100% that you've got two different kinds of gays. You got a gay sky and a girl's gay. I have a girl's gay. But I will say the one gripe I have with my girls is, stop asking me about those damn bangs because you've learned your lesson or you should have learned your lesson. Our friend group is big, and every one of you, I've told, don't get bangs because you're gonna come crying to me in six months time. You just are.

[Lacey Mosley]

I. I always say, girl, they got clip in bangs now. You don't have to learn like we did back in the day. Okay? I am on Real Housewives of New York with bangs that I cut myself looking like what I've been through. Okay, well, yeah, one of those.

[Tan France]

One of those what? I don't know. Internet, like vine girls who cut their ban and let us all see you cut your bangs and you made the fucking mistake of doing it too short.

[Lacey Mosley]

Okay, no, see, I learned from them. I learned from them. I was on the other end of the camera and I was like, okay, so I got to twist the hair and I got to bring it past my brows and cut it here. Because when you curl it, it's going to be like ba bam. Otherwise you're going to get that. One time, Beyonce had that one bang that was like above her eyebrows. You know what? She could do it because it was fashion.

[Tan France]

Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

On the streets.

[Tan France]

I don't know when people are going to learn. Like, have we not seen enough of those videos to know why are you pulling your hair down to cut bangs? Also, why are you quitting your own bangs?

[Lacey Mosley]

Because I had a bang feeling. I can't have a bang feeling tan. Okay? Life. Life gets hard. And sometimes a girl needs blinders, okay? She needs something right in front of her eyes.

[Tan France]

That's fine. Looking at this.

[Lacey Mosley]

I need bangs.

[Tan France]

You're saying right in front of your eyes. That's fine. If they're in front of your eyes, you're doing great. But if they are closer to your natural hairline than they should be, that is a problem, that is a deal breaker.

[Lacey Mosley]

You've now turned that into teenage hairs. They're not baby hairs. Quite. They're not adult hairs. These are teenage hairs that you have on your forehead.

[Tan France]

Yeah, it's rough.

[Lacey Mosley]

Oh, it's rough. But you know what? It's a rite of passage. It's a rite of passage. And speaking of rites and passages, this is the worst segue I've ever done. But on the show Tan, we love to get our guests opinions. In the segment that I call is it a scam? A scam or a real thing? So I'm gonna ask you about three different subjects, and you let me know if you feel like it's a scam, which would be something that should absolutely be illegal or is. Is it a scheme where it feels scammy? Sometimes, yeah, it's shady. It sometimes it could work out, but it's shady. You know, it's like an alleyway. Maybe down. You go down the alleyway and you do get that faux furkin bag in Chinatown. Or maybe you go down there, you get hit in the head with a lead pipe. You don't know.

[Tan France]

Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

And then a real thing is something that we think legitimately belongs in society.

[Tan France]

Great. Okay, we should see more of. Yes. Okay.

[Lacey Mosley]

My first one for you, just to keep on the skin, because we were talking about this beautiful skin that you have. Tan multi step skincare routines. Are they a scam scheme or a real thing? So by that I mean, like when you wash your face at night, you got the toner, the retinol, the serum, the vitamin C, the water moisturizer. You're using Gua Sha. You got the. Do I seem too familiar with this?

[Tan France]

Lacey, I've got a feeling that you're about to come for me so hard because I am. I am that person that does all of that. And I don't think it's a scam. I think it's. What's the last one? Real one. Like, everyone should be doing it. Why you? Why are you not doing. If you're not doing a. At least a five step routine morning and night. At least five.

[Lacey Mosley]

What are your five? Tan, what are your five?

[Tan France]

Okay, I'm talking about. But like, fuck me, five is basic. Wash your face. Wash your face.

[Lacey Mosley]

Okay. I don't think washing counts. I think everybody should wash.

[Tan France]

I know some dirty bitches that don't. So that has to be on. So it has to be one. So wash your face with some kind of cleanser and then the basics. Toner, serum, moisturizer, extra moisturizer. You've got some kind of peptide would be so nice. I mean, at least a retinol and then you moisturize. So that's basic five. But then you've got those, those nights like twice a week where you want to do a face mask. You want to do an LED red mask. Oh, my gosh. What else do I want to do? Sometimes I want to do a lip plumper whilst I sleep and keep that lip plumping mask on. There's so much that you could do five Basic. If you're not doing the five basic and you've got problem skin, like, that's your problem, not mine.

[Lacey Mosley]

Oh, that's a word. Okay. I kind of skew into. I can be a scheme. Unfortunately, I could rattle off all those products, Tam, because obviously I have them here. Here's where it comes a little scheme to me. I have a. I have the red light mask and I have the collar that goes on your neck and your upper.

[Tan France]

I like to do that shit chest

[Lacey Mosley]

to keep them, you know, looking as fresh as possible.

[Tan France]

Not creepy. Yeah, but.

[Lacey Mosley]

And I have the one that. Like the, the esthetician. Esthetician recommends it. But my issue is, is that every time I facial and I, I leave with several products. And at one point I think I had like a 12 step skincare routine.

[Tan France]

Too much?

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah, it was too much. And my skin started to react and was like, girl, girl. And here's my, here's why. I think it might be a scheme tan, though. Like, tan. I love that you use these products. I use these products too. But genetics has so much to do with what your skin looks like. And I feel like people with your type of skin are always the ones in the commercials splashing water on their face, out the sink, in the whole bathroom. And then we all start thinking we're gonna have skin like tan if we buy the whole line. And I think that's a little scheme.

[Ad Voice 1]

Okay.

[Tan France]

You know, you are absolutely. No, no. Okay. That's not even just a bit skimmy, that's a bit scammy. Okay. If we're really going to work on the definition. Here's my issue is if you're going for a facial, I think the scam is getting you to buy those products that you use at the facial. Because that facial shit that they do, like when you go to somewhere nice for a facial, they're not Just using basic fucking products. Like they've got. They've got tools. Like, they've got, like, proper tools. Don't tell me that I'll be able to keep this up with these. As you said, 12 products at home. Get the fuck out of here. I know you. No, I know I can't. And so that's the scam. I never buy the product from the facial place. I will get the facial done and then I will still use my products. My facial is just for like a spruce before a big event. I can't do it maybe once every three or four months. It's not a regular thing. And definitely don't fall for the scam of buy this shit because you're going to be able to do it at home. No, there's no way you're getting this look at home.

[Lacey Mosley]

Oh, my gosh. I fully fell for that scam. I. I have a facial steamer. Like, you name it, I got it for the face.

[Tan France]

Oh, you're crazy. Sorry, We. We should have established that earlier.

[Lacey Mosley]

I'm sorry, Sam. We didn't tell you that in the pre interview.

[Tan France]

That was absolutely. Nobody warned me of that. Oh, shit. Yeah, Yeah. I can't help crazy like that. I. I ain't a therapist,

[Lacey Mosley]

y'. All. I'm being attacked. Congregation, help

[Tan France]

Esteem. What the are you using a steamer for?

[Lacey Mosley]

To open the pores.

[Tan France]

Get out of it. Get out of it. No, you. You were scammed. I bet that was expensive too, wasn't it?

[Lacey Mosley]

You know, it was along with my LED red light and everything else.

[Tan France]

Also, I think that LED red light might also be a scam.

[Lacey Mosley]

You have to get the right one. There's some that don'. Have enough frequency to actually give you the collagen booze.

[Tan France]

Oh, you drank the Kool Aid. Well done. I will say that there are a lot of, like, derms, like dermatologists on Insta who will do the review of all the shit that we use and say whether it's good or not. They all do say the red light mask is good. But you're right, if you get the right one, I might not have the right one. I just waited till someone gifted it. So it might not be the best one.

[Lacey Mosley]

I mean, it might be good.

[Tan France]

It might be good. It's fine. I think there's. It's one of those things that we think is working because it's modern technology, but it really isn't.

[Lacey Mosley]

It does sometimes feel a little bit like a placebo. But what I will say is that it involuntarily Gives me some relaxation time. Because when I have that mask on, I look like Jason Voorhees, and I have to just, like, at least sit still for 20 minutes. So maybe I'm just regulating my nervous system and pretending that my skin is getting better from.

[Tan France]

No, no, no. Regulating your nervous system might be helping your skin.

[Lacey Mosley]

Oh, it actually does. Stress acne is real. That's the whole scam of it all.

[Tan France]

That's so really, you don't need that. You just need to put some earphones in and some kind of relaxation mode, and you're absolutely fine. Yeah, don't spend the money on the red light mask. I don't think it makes that much of a difference.

[Lacey Mosley]

I don't either. But I will say, like, there's certain things in your skincare routine that can help with your skin, but also, it is genetics. And it's also diet, guys.

[Tan France]

Diet's a huge one for me.

[Lacey Mosley]

Gut health.

[Tan France]

I know you didn't ask the question, but I'm going to tell you anyway. I did warn you. I talk a lot. I don't drink soda. I eat really healthy. I try not to eat as you chug your soda. Well done. This is water.

[Lacey Mosley]

This is water, Tam. Oh, my goodness.

[Tan France]

And I always have drunk a shocking amount of water since I was a teenager. I had really bad skin as a teen, and so my mom was like, drink a lot of water. Stop with the soda, stop with the fried food, and you'll be great. And it's amazing what it does. So before you invest in that red light mask, that's going to cost you hundreds and hundreds. Maybe just put the Diet Coke away.

[Lacey Mosley]

Put the Diet Coke away. Lay off the alcohol, and get those good gut health foods. It's good for your mental health as well.

[Tan France]

Pickles, pickles, pickles. I know this is going to sound so ludicrous, but a lot of pickles are very good for you fermented foods.

[Lacey Mosley]

Kimchi. Get you some arugula. Get you some of them leafy greens. Bookie.

[Tan France]

It's the reason why those Japanese kids are looking so damn good. Like, they eat so much fermented shit. Yeah. Oh, my God.

[Lacey Mosley]

Tan. Should we make, like, the Korean skin diet? Have they made it yet?

[Tan France]

No, they haven't, but let's bomb. Have you been? Have you been Seoul?

[Lacey Mosley]

Not yet, but it's on my list.

[Tan France]

It's on my list. I just haven't.

[Lacey Mosley]

I want the fried chicken there, too. Because black American soldiers introduced Korean people to frying chicken during the war, and then Korean people took that Shit and ran with a Korean fried chicken.

[Tan France]

They made it even crispier.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah, it is crispier.

[Tan France]

I know. I would love to join you in that. But I don't eat meat. But I love that for you. I love that for you.

[Lacey Mosley]

I'll see you a bit.

[Tan France]

Thank you so much. I do like to watch people eat, so I will happily watch you eat that food.

[Lacey Mosley]

I'm also. I do like a mukbang too.

[Tan France]

I do love a mukbang.

[Lacey Mosley]

So your final bonus for multi step skincare routine. Real thing scheme. Okay.

[Tan France]

Okay.

[Lacey Mosley]

Lighter. Yeah. Real thing scheme is real thing slash scheme. I agree with you there.

[Tan France]

Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

Okay, what about this one? Scam scheme or real thing? Tan fast fashion slash dupes. So what I mean by that is like when something comes out, you know, on a Runway or we see it at a Met or we see it on an actress or it's in a popular television show and then a brand like a Sheen or a Teemu remakes it or even a Steve Madden because Steve Madden loves, you know. So do we think that's a scam, a scheme or a real thing?

[Tan France]

I'm gonna say scam, but my perspective is different from yours.

[Lacey Mosley]

Okay, let me hear, let me hear.

[Tan France]

Okay, we might have. I'm gonna plead my case and you can tell me whether you think it's a scam, scheme or real.

[Lacey Mosley]

Okay.

[Tan France]

So I was a designer. I. I guess once a designer, always a designer. So I was a designer and I used to make women's. That's how I started my career. And I had brands that made women's wear. And I would design something called private label where I would design a full collection. Nordstrom, Target Forever 21 would come and look at that collection and say, okay, can you make this for our store in this color and this print which I would have available? Yep, sure. And then I'm going to put your label in it. But then what I found was a bunch of companies would then knock off my product. So I was the designer. They would knock off my product. Product. And they would then sell it for less and sell a heck of a lot more. As far as I'm concerned. That's a scam because you're fucking with my money. Yeah, like you, you like you fully with my money. Like there's people aren't just buying my shit now because mine's slightly more expensive than your shitty quality version.

[Lacey Mosley]

Right.

[Tan France]

And so I see it as a scam, but I think I only see it as a scam because I was at the top of that pyramid. If I were the Shein or the team or even the customer, I'd be like, now I'm getting a bargain, like I'm getting a deal. So that's the real one.

[Lacey Mosley]

Okay.

[Tan France]

I, so you're gonna have to give me your opinion.

[Lacey Mosley]

So I agree with you about stealing from artists when it comes to their, like their intellectual property. And unfortunately it's the wild wild west when it comes to like clothing in, in general because like everything that's been made has been made before. So making something that's kind of of similar to somebody else's work, that it's more affordable and probably extremely lower quality is not obviously not a new thing and not technically illegal. Yeah, but when it comes to like hardworking artists, like I remember the big scandal about like Kim Kardashian's like, or not Kim, but Khloe Kardashian's clothing line had a lot of dupes of smaller designers, but they had like physical receipts and evidence of the company. I don't know if I knew about this, but the company, good American, like ordering things from smaller designers and then, you know, picking them apart and then making them for their brand.

[Tan France]

Sure, sure, sure.

[Lacey Mosley]

So I don't, I don't agree with the intellectual property theft and that to me is definitely a scam. I lean towards scam scheme because there have been so many times that I was in a, in a high, in college or high school wearing a Steve mat and dupe of a Manolo. I had no idea. I was just like, oh, cute shoe. But I had no idea. Steve was like, hold my beer. Lvmh, I'm a man.

[Tan France]

I agree with that. I don't think you, the customer is ever the problem. Like they're not the scam. Scam, right. They're not the scam at all. They're not even the scheme. They're the real one. They want the thing for less money. I absolutely agree that the customer is the real one, but the, the company that's knocking out, knocking off the designer is the scam. It's a duo. And I don't know if you asked for a duo, but it's a fucking duo. Two things can be true.

[Lacey Mosley]

Two things can be true. I think tan you've, you've unlocked our first duo and I think that you are absolutely right. Especially because I look at like a Steve Madden going for like a high end corporation and giving something accessible to the, the girls on the cul de sac who also want to be fashion girlies. You know, the girls you Know, in the apartment complexes, I'm in an apartment, you know what I mean? We ain't got the mansion, so maybe we're not buying the $30,000 boot. But you know, if Steve Madden got the same looking boot, I can still give 30,000 without spending that. Right?

[Tan France]

Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

So scamming up like that, that doesn't bother me because the rich company is still getting. They're. They're getting their consumers who are not going to step foot and see Madden. You know what I mean? It's a. And vice versa. But I think what you're talking about tan being a small creator and then them taking from now, that's where it gets very scammy for me.

[Tan France]

And that's the most common. Just so you know, that is the most common where they're taking from the small creator because they're like, no one knows this bitch. Like, who cares? Like, no, that's. That bitch is living. Yeah, that's.

[Lacey Mosley]

That bitch is living.

[Tan France]

Also. What I'm also going to position this. Sorry, this is not meant to be a psa, but I will say we love it though. Also, you don't need the dupe of that fancy thing I've always said. I'm going to say it again. If you can't dress well cheaply, you can't dress well.

[Lacey Mosley]

Oh, period.

[Tan France]

You don't need that knockoff of that Louis Vuitton thing. Create something. I used to create my own shit all the time when I was in high school. I was broke. I came from a poor family, really poor family. I didn't have money until I was in my mid to late 20s and I'm talking about even a bit of money into my mid to late 20s. And so I was broke as a joke. I created shit like be unique. Like you don't need to have that same thing that everyone else has got if you can't afford it. I think that sometimes not having the funds makes you so much more creative and stylish. I walk around the streets of New York looking at these kids. I know they can't afford shit. Can tell the students, but they look more creative and stylish than any fancy bitch I see on the Upper west side. Upper west side?

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah. Expensive doesn't equal chic. And I definitely had to learn that also. You're right. But sometimes the less resources you have, the more creative you are. And then. And you can sometimes see the difference between like someone who grew up and is in our industry and didn't have as much and someone who grew up in the industry who came from everything, like, our brains just work a little differently because we're a little bit more resourceful because we had to be agreed, agreed, agreed. Yeah. So I'm, I'm definitely on the same page with you on that. Although I will say this, what pisses me off and I think y' all getting scammed out there is young people or younger than me people, because we're young people. I'm so tired of seeing y' all look like y' all fell in a bin at Goodwill. And then I find out that every piece on you is a high label fashion thing. Like, I know it's kitschy sometimes to get something that's like ripped up or whatever from a designer, like, it's like they're like, wink at that. But I'm like, girl, if you don't take yourself down to a thrift store and get that outfit and it'll be prob better made because this wasn't whipped together in these rat raggedy ass factories,

[Tan France]

but the crap that they're giving them now. But every time I see Balenciaga or

[Lacey Mosley]

Vetmont, that's what I was thinking about.

[Tan France]

I'm like, I could have found that in the trash behind an Arby's.

[Lacey Mosley]

Now they gonna drag me because they know I stay in a speed sneaker.

[Tan France]

Fine. Still, they may have one or two things that are nice, but yeah, the majority of it, I'm like, you just saw a homeless person on the street and knocked off that person's look knock

[Lacey Mosley]

out they whole look look.

[Tan France]

That whole fucking look.

[Lacey Mosley]

That's wild as hell. Yeah, okay. Yeah, I agree with you. I agree with you. I will say this though. Shout out to the products. I know we're just talking about skincare. If you girlies want to get into a step routine and you don't want to spend a ton of money local drugstores. I read somewhere that like ELF is really good about waiting until a patent has to release their like, ingredients. And as soon as they do, ELF will make a dupe of that same ingredients, way less expensive. And so you can be doing your La Mer routine with less expensive products and, you know, get you a little five step. And this is for men too. I don't care if you date men, women, if you're pan, whatever. I don't know who put the scam propaganda out there for straight men that being hygienic was unattractive to women. But if I see a man who smells good and his skin is glowing and his nails are manicured, I immediately like, ooh, ooh, scams. Oh, it is summertime. And if you live in the US the living might not be easy, but that is no reason for your wardrobe not to be. Summer is a perfect time to rethink what your clothes are giving for every single day. And that's why you guys know I love quints. I can't tell y' all how many times I've podcasted on this podcast talking about quints while wearing quints, including right now I have on the overalls. And y' all know I like to leave one shoulder off. Cutie cute quints. Focus on high quality essentials. Think breathable linen, soft, organic cotton, washable silk, but without the luxury markup. And it's like a rare balance where everything feels elevated but it's still easy. And y' all know I am very hard on clothes. And when I tell y' all I can put my Quinn stuff in the washer and the girl comes out just like she came out of the package. And I need this. Y' all know I'm childish. Quint has become my destination for elevated essentials that really make me look like I'm living quiet luxury and like I didn't put my makeup on in the car ride over at every red light. Okay? And that's what I need from Quince. Elevate your summer wardrobe. Go to quince.com goddess for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q U I n c e.com goddess for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quints.com goddess mint mobile plans are only $15 per month. Wondering what's the catch? There isn't one. There are no gimmicks, no gotchas, just unlimited talk, text and data facts, reliable coverage on the nation's largest 5G network and award winning care team. Okay, that makes Mint Mobile a catch. That's why I love switching to Mint Mobile. They have high speed service that covers the country. Meaning I can get my texts, my emails, my phone calls even while I'm out and about in these streets. Mint has my back. To get your new wireless plan for just 15 bucks a month, go to mintmobile.com goddess that's mintmobile.com God cut your wireless bill to 15 bucks a month at mintmobile.com goddess that's it. There's no catch. $45 upfront payment required. Equivalent to $15 a month. New customers on first three month plan only. Speed slower above 40 GB on unlimited plan. Additional Taxes, fees and restrictions apply. See Mint Mobile for details. Chime is changing the way people bank. With fee free banking built for you, no overdraft and monthly fees. Thousands of of fee free ATMs and members can benefit from up to $1,150 in annual rewards. With a Chime card, you get 5% cash back in a category of your choice like gas, hello, groceries and savings that grow faster. With a 3.75% APY that's nine times higher than the national average. Chime is not just smarter banking. It is the most rewarding way to bank. Join the millions who are all already banking fee free today. Head to chime.com goddess that's chime.com goddess it only takes a few minutes to sign up. Chime is a fine tech, not a bank. Banking services for Chime Card provided by Chimes Bank Partners. Optional products and services may have fees or charges. Stated annual percentage yield and cash back for Chime prime only. No minimum balance required. For more information on APY rates, go to Chime.com disclosure losers.

[Tan France]

How Gross can I be? Can I be disgusting on your podcast? Lacey?

[Lacey Mosley]

Yes, everyone.

[Tan France]

Thank you so much. You know, Europe, you just unlocked something that I've been dying to talk about, but I've never ever said publicly because it's disgusting. Oh God, no. I'm sorry everyone who's listening? I'm so sorry. This shows you who I really am. I've just. They edit me to make me seem chic on tv. There's nothing chic about me. You are so. No, nothing she about me. I have thought this so many times. I've said this to my girlfriends. You want a man who takes care of himself. Sorry, I'm gonna get really disgusting. You do not want that man putting his hands. Fingers on you or disgusting part in you.

[Lacey Mosley]

In you.

[Tan France]

If those fingers are not taken care of. You want to make sure that he, if you come, you can't see that he's done at least the most basic skincare routine and that his hands are clean, washed after every toilet use. Perfectly manicured. Not. I don't need a polish. I just need it to be clean. You don't need that shit in you. You do not need that man's hands in you. And I know you're like, I want a real man. Do you also want a disease in your vagina? Because you're going to get it with that real man.

[Lacey Mosley]

You get a real. You'll get a real yeast infection.

[Tan France]

Yeah, he's going to make you real, real.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah. I absolutely agree. And I think straight men listen to other straight men too often about what women want. And I' like, baby, and this is gonna tie into our whole episode, but I'm like, baby, you trying to impress the wrong people, and you need. Might need to discover why you trying to impress them. Because the first thing I look at on a man and I'm pansexual. So men and women, I don't. I really don't have to worry about women. But first thing I look at on a man is his hands.

[Tan France]

Yep. I want to know it's not the

[Lacey Mosley]

muscles that you juiced up. It's not all that protein that you got to get your traps. I'm not looking at your delts. I'm looking at your hands.

[Tan France]

I'm gonna tell you something that is coming to. There's. There's something that I'm about to say that's going to make me seem very, very harsh. I don't think I'm harsh. I just think I'm honest. So I'm very British, which means we're a little more forward. There was a man. This was in the Delta Lounge. It's called the Sky Club. Wasn't too long ago, there was a man who used the restroom. And it wasn't one of those restrooms where there are, like, restrooms within the restroom where they've got their own sink. It was just stalls. Just stalls. This guy had very clear, really dropped a deuce, came out, came out and walked right past me as I was stood in the mirror washing my hands. And I saw him, and he was like, hey. Because he knew who I was, was like, hey. He walked out, went to some girl. Don't know who the woman was, but I'm assuming it's somebody that he was romantically involved with. And as I walked out, I saw him with her, and they were both staring as if. Oh, hand pants. Can we say hi? And so I walked over and I said, I'm so sorry to say this, but he just used the bathroom and didn't wash his hands. Enjoy the rest of your meal. Because I would want some bitch to do me that same solid thinking. You ain't putting your hands on me, bitch. You are not putting your fingers in me without fucking washing your hands first, you dirty bastard. I'm a girl's girl.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yes, you are a girl's girl. No mile half for him. Okay. Like, wash your hands also dirty last. The double embarrassment of being. Being a fan of your work, Ted. And then be like, oh, my God, Dan's. Approaching us. And then you think you about to get you a little selfie. You got to get that photo where you point into the celebrity and the celebrity's like, hey, baby, he got hella, hella fecal germs on your head. Okay. Don't share no finger foods with bookie. Okay. Got the dookie hands.

[Tan France]

Okay. Typically I'm always smiley and I would never do it, but I just watched this poor girl. I just thought, you two are in. You are intertwined find like that boy's gonna try and touch you soon. Dirty bastard. Dirty bastard. That's community.

[Lacey Mosley]

We, we shout out to community. I love that for both of us. And our last scam scheme, a real thing before we get into the hoodwink here is free trials go on. So, you know, if you sign up for subscription service, let's say, you know, it could be a streaming service. It could be like they said, what, credit card. Any apps on your phone. Yeah. Where they give you a free trial. You know, you want that, that face editing app because you trying to snatch up that face of that body. You want the extra Pro plus airbrush or camera, whatever, and they give you that free trial. Do you think that's a scam scheme or a real thing?

[Tan France]

It's a total scam. How do we not have we not seen that? If they don't take your credit card details, that's just a real one.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah.

[Tan France]

Give me that free thing for a week. I would love that free thing for a week. But if you're asking for any of my details, even just my email, because you're going to bombard my email.

[Lacey Mosley]

Oh, yeah.

[Tan France]

With a bunch of offers and whatever. If you are not asking for anything in return, you're just like, enjoy this for a week, bitch. I'm like, oh, you're a real one. But no one's ever doing that. They always want your credit card details. Always. And you know, you know we're all way too busy to cancel a membership after a week. You were never going to remember that. No, I know that people say, well, you could just put a reminder in your phone, bitch, get the fuck out of here. I'm putting a reminder in my phone about a trial membership being over. It's not going to happen, happen. You know that I'm gonna have to pay at least a month. You cheeky bastards. You know what you do? And it's a scam. It's a scam. It's a scam.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yep. I recommend if you have an iPhone, I don't know what it is on Android, I think it's just like the App Store as well. But like go in there, look at subscriptions and see what you're subscribed to and look down the list because you'd be surprised something might still be charging you. There's also reputable ways to go through your bank to see how many prescription or subscriptions are coming out of your account monthly. I recently did that and started canceling. Hella shit. But there's a PayPal.

[Tan France]

I've had a PayPal membership tip for about 15 years and I know it comes out of my account but I have no idea how to stop.

[Lacey Mosley]

It's one of the hardest. I have subscriptions that go to PayPal and PayPal won't even line up your subscriptions for you. You have to go through the payment things that are being like extracted. Sometimes your Apple apps won't even show you all that subscriptions that you have. You really have to do some forensic research to see who start nickel and diming you. I also recommend having a fake spam email. I have an email from Yahoo. That's where all of my clothing accounts, all of the things go to for the advertisements might want the discount or I may want to send all my receipts there but I don't want them in my real work or personal email. So everybody, you need an email. I used to call it like a, like a porn sign up email. You need an email that ain't like serious.

[Tan France]

I think you're a Taipei bitch like me.

[Lacey Mosley]

I don't know.

[Tan France]

You're a Taipei girl. Now that sounds very Taipei to me. And we're crazy in the best way.

[Lacey Mosley]

I might have some, some type A tendencies floating around, but I'm very type B baby tan. Get to know your girl. Okay. Day I lose everything.

[Tan France]

Really?

[Lacey Mosley]

Oh yes. I literally this week I had a flat tire and so luckily I just got my car detailed and across the street there was a place that sold tires. So I go and I get a new tire and the guy's like okay, your tire, your car is ready to go. So I get in my car and I drive away and I have a push to start. So you have to have the keys in the car to like start the car. So I start the car, I drive away, I'm driving home, I'm on the freeway, whatever. I stop to the bank to deposit some and stuff. I'm trying to park my car at the bank and lock it and I'm like where are my keys? I just saw my car detailed, right? So it's very clean. So I'm looking around the car. I'm like, did I drop them? Did they fall through the seat? I got my phone, flashlight. I'm like looking everywhere. I'm like, where the hell did I put my keys? And my car doesn't run without the keys. So I turn it off, turn it back on, it's still running. I'm like, where the fuck are these keys? Tell me why. I finally get out of the car and I notice that the keys have slipped in between the window and the front trunk trunk of my car. So I drove on the freeway with my keys sitting outside of my car.

[Tan France]

That's insane.

[Lacey Mosley]

The mechanic who changed my tire put my keys on top of my car and I just drove away.

[Tan France]

That's insane. I can't believe it worked. Mine has to basically be on the push button for it to work. That's insane that yours worked outside the car. Why?

[Lacey Mosley]

You know where the window shield wipers are? It slid into that pocket. And so I was on the freeway with my keys willy nilly outside of the car.

[Tan France]

How the fuck did you find those? I would never have thought to look there. That is wild.

[Lacey Mosley]

Because I'm type B and I was like, where? What's the equivalent of something in the refrigerator?

[Tan France]

No, no, no. That's type A. Bullshit. Because you knew where to look. I never would have thought of that. Wild.

[Lacey Mosley]

No. I only know because of shenanigans. Once you find your remote control in your refrigerator, once you know what's going on in your life, you know, you know yourself, you gotta look at unexp.

[Tan France]

That's fair, that's fair, that's fair.

[Lacey Mosley]

But yes, free trials, guys. Just use the app for what you need it for and then immediately cancel it right then and there. Now, a few apps and things will only let you do that a couple of times before they're like, oh, no, girl, you. You locked in now.

[Tan France]

Yeah, But I do think they know you're the scammer. Yes. And they need to be the scammer. They can't have you scamming.

[Lacey Mosley]

You're not robbing us, we robbing you. What do you think this is?

[Ad Voice 1]

Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

Becomes a spider man be. Yeah, no, I completely agree with you. But I do think if you don't use an app very often and you just need it for a very specific, go ahead and get that free trial and then immediately, once you're done, 100% do it.

[Tan France]

But you're gonna have to find a way. I just haven't because I'm too lazy of a person to find a way to remind yourself. Otherwise you're fucked for a long time. They're gonna charge you a lot.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Do it right then in the moment. Use the app and then immediately delete it. Unless you think you're gonna use it and then I'm, I guess, giving people their money.

[Tan France]

Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yes. Well, those were amazing revelations, Tan. Thank you so much. I've learned. So and about the teams. Now we're gonna get into the main event of the episode. This is called Historic Hoodwinks. This is why we were Gail Tan with a famous con caper group of criminals we don't know yet. Maybe we love them, maybe we hate them, but for sure, we will laugh at them, but never at the victims, because there should be no shame around getting scammed. Life is a scam. We're all getting got at some point. Okay. And hopefully this will prevent us from getting scammed.

[Tan France]

That's right.

[Lacey Mosley]

So before we start, I do want to give a content warning up here. You know, we like to lead with love, life and crime over here, not get too d. But the topical story that triggers this roundup does involve soliciting sex with a minor. We won't be getting into details there, but just so you know, we don't want to re trigger or re traumatize anyone. You all know how this podcast goes, but in the subsequent list of scammers, we try to curate out the more disturbing crimes. So if you're interested in those types of things, like, you know, the links are always in our footnotes, but we're going to keep it scam related here. Just want to let y' all know. Okay, so here we go. Historic Hoodwinks Today, Tan. We're talking about Alan Chambers. First, the former Gay Cure minister who was arrested for soliciting sex with an underage boy has joined a long, historic list of anti gay activists who later came out or were outed as gay. We do not condone outing. Even if, like, it's a really vicious scammer on this podcast, that's still your choice. I will say. Say, as a gay, I don't condone outing, but I'm not a purist when it comes to getting my lick back.

[Tan France]

So I don't even know what lick back means. What does that mean?

[Lacey Mosley]

So, like, getting your lick back means, like, if someone were to, like, hit you, right, they. They hit. They hit you with a lick, right? Like, a lick can be a robbery. Like, you. You catch a lick Like. Which means, like, you go rob people, so people might get their lick back. Like, revenge, basically. Getting your lick back. It can be physical. It also can be like, I'm robbing you. Or it can be like, oh, you talk shit about me. I'm a. I'm gonna put your shit on the street.

[Tan France]

Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

So it's just getting your revenge. I think you said revenge.

[Tan France]

No, I'm gonna. No, I like lick back, and I'm gonna start using it. Go.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah, get your lick bag. Absolutely. But I'm saying that because, I'm sorry. If you're anti abortion, if you're anti gay, which, to me, personally, I don't know why you and other people's business. Mind your own. Mind your own. There's so much business for you. Don't mind. I am so bogged down by the minutia of life every single day. I don't know where y' all find time to hate. Okay, I gotta do my laundry. I don't got time to be a bigot.

[Tan France]

Like, same. So.

[Lacey Mosley]

But so when they are gay, I. Which I don't like to label them all as closeted homosexuals because I think that's also negative. To be like, oh, someone's homophobic all of a sudden. Like, they must be gay. Like, they're not synonymous. But when you got too much interest in the business, I'm like, why you over here?

[Tan France]

So much press. Protesting too hard. Yeah. Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

So Alan grew up in a Southern Baptist church in the 1970s and 80s where he felt ashamed for his secret attraction to men. Makes sense. Southern Baptist. They don't let you dance.

[Tan France]

Nope.

[Lacey Mosley]

They don't let you drink. I don't think they. Like, I'm from the South. I'm a missionary Baptist. I don't think that they let you. You got to wear skirts to church. I don't think you can wear makeup. I don't think you can have alcohol at your wedding if you real Southern.

[Tan France]

Whoa.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah. It's like footloose over there.

[Tan France]

I thought all Christians except the Mormons were allowed to drink. Wow.

[Lacey Mosley]

They. They got some strictness if you're a real Southern Baptist. So Allan claimed to overcome his gayness. He said he was delivered.

[Tan France]

Yeah. So many.

[Lacey Mosley]

And became the president of Exodus International, one of the largest conservative Christian ministries. They love to put an international after it because that's one thing. Like, I don't think any religion is better than another, and that includes choosing not to believe. I think it's a casino. Put your money on whatever you want to. Put your Money on me personally, I got a little coin on every religion. You know, if it's, if it's Buddhism, I'm get up there and I'm going to be like Buddha, what's good? You know, if it's reincarnation, I'm going to be like, can I be a rich lady's dog?

[Tan France]

I show everyone respect because you never know how it's going to end.

[Lacey Mosley]

You never know. Allah, I'm du Allah. What's up? We here too.

[Tan France]

That's right, that's right, that's right.

[Lacey Mosley]

If I get up, there's Judaism. I still believed in God.

[Tan France]

Jesus.

[Lacey Mosley]

Is he around here?

[Tan France]

Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

If it's Christ, I was with Jesus as well. That was his son. Whatever it is, I'm a scammer. I'm trying to get in. Whatever up there, I want to be inside same. So. But I will say that Christians are, we're the absolute worst when it comes to like spreading religion. Like nobody asked you to convert them. Like stay at home in Judaism. You got to go knock on their door. You got to be like, hey, hey, can I.

[Tan France]

The Christians really do love missionary work.

[Lacey Mosley]

That's cuz it's all about capitalism and owning things. That's why priests can't marry because they don't want no land from the church going to any other lineage. That's where it comes from. It's not religious.

[Tan France]

It is wild that they rad. You go all over the world. I'm like, just stay where you are.

[Lacey Mosley]

Just stay where you at.

[Tan France]

Nobody at locally. No.

[Lacey Mosley]

Also, also I think you are doubting God if you got to go spread the gospel because why you think God can't get over there and, and get a bush burning?

[Tan France]

He asked you to do that 100%.

[Lacey Mosley]

So. But of course he's involved in this, right? Allan is. He's the president and he addressed the subject of homosexuality from 2001 to 2013. The followers believe that same sex attractions were sinful and should be either forcefully changed or just repressed forever.

[Tan France]

Yes.

[Lacey Mosley]

And that it was better to manage your temptations. We've seen this before, so well.

[Tan France]

Oh, do that. Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

Just don't be who you are.

[Tan France]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Be a completely different person. Lie your whole life.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah, but right. Oh, God made you in his image, but like he said, put some of the files behind a paywall.

[Tan France]

That's right. That's right. Yep.

[Lacey Mosley]

So for a time, Exodus International promoted the Gay Cure, a conversion therapy and pseudoscientific practice of trying to change a person's sexual orientation. Gender identity or gender expression to align with their heterosexual and cisgendered norms. And their slogan was Change is possible. That's not very inspiring.

[Tan France]

In parentheses. Just kidding. Or trickty bitch. Or trickty bitch. Or no, it ain't. Or any of the above. Because it's bullshit. Abso. Oh, my God, I love the changes Possible. Is it. Was it for you? Because I hear you still sucking dick behind closed doors.

[Lacey Mosley]

Is it? Yeah, you just changed locations. We saw you in the park, babes.

[Tan France]

Is it possible you're just hiding it from people? That ain't changed. You just get better secrets.

[Lacey Mosley]

And also, one thing I do find hilarious about bigots is they never have any good messaging, any good comedy, any good fashions. Like, you couldn't come up with a better slogan than change as possible. What about pray the gay away? No gay today. Gay. No way.

[Tan France]

Yeah, man. Make it more entertaining.

[Lacey Mosley]

I was gay yesterday, but not today. But not today. Put that ass in the past. Come on, give me something.

[Tan France]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Something sassier. God, it's always a real fucking snooze fest. That makes you think, why would I want to go there? Like, wouldn't you want to attend somewhere fun to be? Like. Yeah, they get it. They want to pray the getaway.

[Lacey Mosley]

Y' all not even making straightness look fun. Yeah, I think that's the biggest gripe that biggest have with pride is that one. Pride is actively political because being queer has been a political statement because it was politicized and we've been persecuted. So it is supposed to be a political statement celebration. It's not about sex. It's about the light, the right to exist as a human being.

[Ad Voice 1]

And.

[Lacey Mosley]

But what bigots see and take away from it is just like, everybody's dressed so well. Is that glitter? They got the best music. They dancing. Why everybody got abs?

[Tan France]

Why do they see this now? Yes. Yeah, yeah. Like, try letting go of it, and you might be happy, too. Yes, they do look like they're having fun. Try it. You might leave this fucking group and no longer be the present, you miserable.

[Lacey Mosley]

Because every celebration of heterosexuality is quite.

[Tan France]

Oh, snooze fest. I mean, you're talking about the Republican National Convention.

[Ad Voice 2]

Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

Right.

[Tan France]

It's real stuff. However, they're loving that grinder.

[Lacey Mosley]

They do that grinder be on fire anytime.

[Tan France]

Republicans together. Okay.

[Lacey Mosley]

They're busy.

[Tan France]

Okay.

[Lacey Mosley]

I'm sure the app has to keep track of just, like, Republican national events and be like, we need more data.

[Tan France]

They do. No, no, legitimately. The. The guy did, like, some talk recently, and said it's amazing how much manpower we have to put in to the surrounding areas of wherever that convention is, because we know it's going to be fucking next level. It's their busiest time of the year. And I just think, hey, you guys, the calls coming from inside the house, maybe stop bitching about the rest of us and focus on yourselves. You're the problem, not us.

[Lacey Mosley]

And also, I feel like at this point it would just be better for all of the queer, you know, whatever you are on the spectrum, people to come out in politics and be like, yeah, everything's cool, we all doing it. And then just let that be. That I feel like fighting against it is making it so much harder.

[Tan France]

It's insane. It's insane. And I think, look, I don't agree with your politics, but you can still be that political party and suck a dick. That's fine. It's fine. No one's going to judge you.

[Lacey Mosley]

Not for that. Okay, I will judge our politics. Everything else, but. Everything else.

[Tan France]

Yeah, everything else, but no one's going to judge you for something. Just enjoy it.

[Lacey Mosley]

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[Tan France]

You're just. I can tell you there is zero scientific evidence. Yes, there's scientific evidence. It clear it's not possible but go on.

[Lacey Mosley]

So conversion therapy is under consumer fraud by the way. It is where it belongs. And the Supreme Court recently turned over some conversion therapy policies in Colorado which we do not like to see. But it's a scam and it should be an outlawed medical practice. Okay, so like it's not the term that doctors use because it's not really therapy when they talk about conversion therapy. And it can involve lots of methods from prayer to electroshock therapy, brain surgery, exorcisms, castration, Hypnosis and a 12 step program called Homosexuals Anonymous.

[Tan France]

Get the out of here Now.

[Lacey Mosley]

I've always wondered, especially in the camps that take on man male men of any ilk, these conversion camps, aren't you just rounding up a bunch of gay men and the woods.

[Tan France]

Do you know what cuz I feel

[Lacey Mosley]

like where I'm gonna find my husband.

[Tan France]

Do you know what? This is so controversial to say. But I'm not talking about the extreme ones. I'm talking about the ones that were just chit chat like the, like the I've got air quotes everyone. The therapy ones. I'm like, wait, if they're just trying to talk the gay away or pray the gay away, as a kid I thought, whoa, I want to go to one of those cuz everyone's gay and I'm probably going to meet my husband. Like where better to go now if you are forced to go to those shocking and it's a trauma that I can only imagine.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah.

[Tan France]

But if it's one of those where it's just like a chitchat and you have the choice to go, I'm like,

[Lacey Mosley]

yeah, yeah, if it's voluntary, I might want to dip a toe just to see what's going on.

[Tan France]

I just want to see the ones

[Lacey Mosley]

where they ship you away, your parents sign you away. Obviously those are, they're all horrific. They're all horrific. But I would be interested to see who's showing up voluntarily for these meetings.

[Tan France]

But if there was like a local church, I live in Salt Lake City, Utah. If there was a local church down the Street. That said, do you want to come and talk about what it looks like to maybe pray the gay away of like. Yep, I do.

[Lacey Mosley]

Don't they have that one show in Utah about the Mormons who are married to the gay man?

[Tan France]

Yes, but that is not actually the show. The show is called Secret Lives of Mormon Wives. And those men aren't. I don't think they're out.

[Lacey Mosley]

No. But they call it ssa, Same Sex Attraction. Like, it's a disease. And then they'd be like, I have ssa, but I. I'm in a straight life. And I'm like, sorry, I feel bad for you.

[Tan France]

To be fair, I don't think they've ever said that on that show. But a lot of people assume that those husbands are homosexual. I love how you're just out here fully outing these bad ones.

[Lacey Mosley]

It came across too clear to me on screen, so I was like, we're all in Koreans, right?

[Tan France]

Same. I know.

[Lacey Mosley]

And unfortunately, the ones that we're talking about, they all tend to skew to the cruel, unusual, and human torture. They are banned and camped. Canada, Brazil, Ecuador, Spain, Germany, France, Malta, and New Zealand. However, in the US it's still legal in many states. That's why I brought up Colorado, even for young people. But it's legally considered consumer fraud because you're not getting what you pay for. You leave just as gay as you can.

[Tan France]

That's right.

[Lacey Mosley]

And this came from a 2015 court case in New Jersey. So they brought all the way to the court, and I want to know who went to a lawyer and was like, I am still gay. I want my money back.

[Ad Voice 1]

Oh.

[Tan France]

However, that is so the kind of petty shit I would have done back in the day if I to have been sent to any of those. If I had paid to try and get the gay away. I'm like, I know it's not possible, but then I'm gonna sue these bitches.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah, right. I'm on the same page. I feel like I would be like, bitch, I just saw Tessa Thompson, and the loins was loining. Give me my money back. Give me my money.

[Tan France]

Especially if I knew that it was just one of those voluntary ones, I would pay knowing that I was gonna sue if I was broke. If I was broke, I'd be like, yeah, okay, I know what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna get rich quick. I'm gonna go to that thing, I'm gonna give them my money, and then I'm gonna sue them, because it's not possible.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yep. I'm Coming back to court with a girlfriend and a neck brace and I want my money today. That's how we scam them back. Sue them.

[Tan France]

Amen.

[Lacey Mosley]

So back to Allan. Allan married a woman named Alan's our Exodus International gay president. So. So Alan married a woman named Leslie and adopted two children. He wrote three books including My Exodus from Fear to Grace, God's Grace and the Homosexual Next Door.

[Tan France]

The Homosexual Next Door.

[Lacey Mosley]

God, this is, this is a full title. God's Grace and the Homosexual Next Door Door Colon. Reaching the heart of the gay men and women in your world. Now, why you got to go bother the gay people? What you mean they next door, you got to go bother them. He wrote a whole book on bothering gay people. Please be serious.

[Tan France]

Whoever his wife is, his friends and family, they could have at least look.

[Lacey Mosley]

This is her wife. This is his wife. That's Leslie.

[Tan France]

I see Leslie.

[Lacey Mosley]

I drives a Subaru and she loves making canoes in the backyard. Backyard.

[Tan France]

I know it's hot.

[Lacey Mosley]

This is lavender if I've ever seen lavender. I can smell the lavender. Marriage through screen.

[Tan France]

I could smell the lavender too.

[Lacey Mosley]

And they adopted kids. They ain't never bumped ugly.

[Tan France]

No, no, she never wanted to that stay away from me. I, I'm, I'm a little concerned that no one said to him, obviously his friends hate him. None of his friends said, you know what, love, you might want to reconsider that title. That's a long ass title. No one's to going to read that.

[Lacey Mosley]

Also reaching the heart. Why do you have to reach the heart of them? And I think that's because he want to hang out with his community. That's why he's so involved. He was like, how can I be with the gay community but also have the Christian bigot still on my side?

[Tan France]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

Okay, I'll go over there and admonish them. I know I have to go to the abbey because I need to tell

[Tan France]

the G what they're doing is wrong.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yes. I tip the Go Go dancer because I want him to come down and pray with me in the beat.

[Tan France]

Sorry, I'm sucking, I'm sucking up the Go Go D. I'm just doing that so they understand how wrong it is. I want them to see how wrong this is.

[Lacey Mosley]

Once you have sex with a straight person, you become straight too. That's what I'm doing for the community.

[Tan France]

That's right. That's right.

[Lacey Mosley]

And the last book title here, speaking of long ones Tan, here's another one. Leaving Homosexuality Colon. A Practical Guide for Men and women looking for a way out.

[Tan France]

I don't think you should have said looking for a. A way out. They're out.

[Lacey Mosley]

They're fully out. They're looking for a way in.

[Tan France]

You're looking for a way out. They're not looking for a way out. You're looking for a way out, sir. Oh, that poor bastard.

[Lacey Mosley]

Right? You're looking for a way out of the. The bigoted Christianity that you're a part of.

[Tan France]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're looking for a way out of the closet. You just have the strength to do it. So you're pretending you're not gay at all.

[Lacey Mosley]

A way out of what? Can we please stop acting like the gay community is having welcome parties? We are not trying to convert anyone. We're not like, oh, you came over here, you was gay. Don't leave anybody. There's no way out. Just stop. Stop having sex with same sex people. You're out. What do you mean?

[Tan France]

Also a way out of what? Joy, happiness. I think authenticity, self expression.

[Lacey Mosley]

Like what?

[Tan France]

A way out of what? Yeah, when you come out. Yeah, almost every. I don't think I've ever met one person who's like, you know, I wish I were back in the closet. I feel less free. Get the out of here. Get the out of here. Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

No. Said no one ever to go be in a snooty or suppressive place where everyone's judging you constantly and you can't be yourself. No one has ever been like, let's walk into that.

[Tan France]

Yeah, no one's looking for that. So, no, they don't need a way out. They're perfectly happy once they're out.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah. No. Do you want to join this prison way back in the closet? Come on in. It's terrible.

[Tan France]

It's like he wrote that title for himself. Poor bastard. But also evil bastard. What an evil bastard.

[Lacey Mosley]

Cuz like, you could have just enjoyed your life, but instead you're so miserable, you're hell bent on making others miserable so you can get that company. So in 2011, Exodus International released an iPhone app. I hope they had a subscription. A little free trial.

[Tan France]

Free trial? Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

Promoting the idea that homosexuality can be cured. It was later removed from the app store. What am I supposed to do on Pray to gay away? Like, every time I get a gay feeling, I get on the app.

[Tan France]

Oh, no.

[Lacey Mosley]

In your area.

[Tan France]

Run, Run.

[Lacey Mosley]

Like, what is this? In 2012, Allen backtracked on conversion therapy and stopped using the term gay cure, admitting that the methods usually didn't work. And in 2013, Exodus International dissolved completely. So he did give this up, which I'm.

[Tan France]

However, I need to pause you. He said usually doesn't work. How many times did. You're using the word usually wrong. Tell me how many fucking times times it worked. How many times did you convert somebody from gay to straight? Give me the exact numbers.

[Lacey Mosley]

I feel like the usually was for him to give himself some kind of, you know, absolution.

[Tan France]

Yeah, yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

Absolve himself rather.

[Tan France]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

So he know it's never, but he, he can't say never. He was doing it for like three years.

[Tan France]

It was his whole life. Yeah, it was his whole life. It was his entire personality. It's all he got.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah, he was doing it longer than that, I think about a decade. So. So Alan never changed his public beliefs though that, you know, this is not in the Bible, which like y' all don't read the Bible because there's a lot of stuff in there that if we did it, y' all would be dismayed.

[Tan France]

I love when people. So this side note, I love them. I'm gonna say Americans, even though American, American Christians will talk about other religions as if they're so damaging. Like have you seen what it says in the Quran? I'm like, it says basically the same thing in the Bible. How stupid. Stupid iu.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah. Most of us who are smart know that a lot of those allegories, we're not gonna actually do them. My dad didn't try to sell me off, you know, for the family, you know, like there's a ton of things in there that we don't want to do. Okay.

[Tan France]

Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

So he was arrested Allen in Florida May after a months long sting operation in which he was messaging an undercover detective posing as a 14 year old boy. He was using Snapchat, telegram text and he did send a. A picture of his penile at one point. So not only was Al for a fraud, for promoting a belief system that one he does not adhere to and who absolutely does not work, but he was also doing this solicitation of a minor. I'm so glad that the person that he was soliciting was an undercover cop and that it was a sting. I love a Chris Hansen moment because then the actual children aren't getting involved, but we're getting your nasty ass off the streets, period. Sit down with your wine coolers, bitch. You're going to jail tonight. Love it.

[Tan France]

He should really have really written more books about how to stop being a pedophile as opposed to a gay person because that's the major issue we've got

[Lacey Mosley]

here, sir, because these are two separate things.

[Tan France]

Yeah, massively two separate things.

[Lacey Mosley]

One of them is normal and beautiful, the other one is a fucking crime and disgusting.

[Tan France]

And that's exactly like you're focusing on the thing that's not an issue whatsoever as opposed to you being a fucking dirty bastard. Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

Nobody is welcoming pedos into their community with open arms as they should not be. Okay? That's what you need to worry about. So with these alleged crimes, Allen joins a long line of historic hypocrites, anti gay activists who have turned out to be the very thing that they were trying to outlaw. You were too hyper fixated on it, like why do you care? Also, I'm not even worried about the. You being a bigot is not at the top of the list. Now you trying to harm children is at the very, very top of the list. Put your ass under the prison and don't try to claim that it has anything to do with homosexuality because you did that weird on your own. Okay?

[Tan France]

And I know I shouldn't encourage this, but they're going to treat you real right in prison, darling.

[Lacey Mosley]

You might actually like I, I hope for it to be consensual, but maybe that's where you need to be so you can be your living your truth. But actually if they find out what's on your jacket, and a jacket is basically I, I got some, you know, I got some criminals I be chatting with. A jacket in prison is basically like your medical forms, what you're in for, all of that. If you don't tell people what you are in for, prison for, you don't have to worry. The guards will either tell the guy out or you, they'll get your jacket and then they going to start whooping on your ass for harming women and children.

[Tan France]

So that's what you deserve, especially with children. I'm like, yeah, get the bastard.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yep, get them. So Exodus founders ended up marrying each other, right? So the two people who founded it, who. So remember Allen was the president. Yes, he's the creep who went to prison and. But the founders of Exodus International, which was the principle, right, that gay attraction could be cured, they ended up marrying each other. Michael Bousay and Gary Cooper, not the actor from the western movies, a different guy. Met while working on a crisis hotline at Melodyland Christian Center. An evangelical Christian chur. They were both married. Gary has two children while Michael was soon to be a father. And both identified as former homosexuals who had been cured. Together they founded Exodus International that Allen's creep ass was the president of, which was the largest ex gay organization and they intended to turn gay people straight. They were popular speakers on the evangelical circuit. Their families vacationed together.

[Tan France]

Sure they did.

[Lacey Mosley]

Families vacation together. I'm sure y' all did a lot of boys time. Left the wives with the kids and went and had boys time. And they moved their families into the same apartment complex. Gary and Michael's wives were best friends.

[Tan France]

Of course they are. They left.

[Lacey Mosley]

They left the group to be in a relationship with each other in 1979. They divorced their wives and participated in a commitment ceremony in 1982. And they lived together until Gary's death in 1991. In 2000. In 2007, Michael issued an apology for his involvement in promoting orientation change through Exodus. So Michael did come back and apologize.

[Tan France]

Yes.

[Lacey Mosley]

But here's my thing. And this, this goes across men of any sexual orientation. You know what? I'm just gonna have to maybe attribute this to whiteness first. But I'm gonna start with white men. I am so exhausted with a white man's personal problem, Their own self doubt or self hatred, their own inconvenience, their own issue having to become the world's problem. It is one of the biggest plagues that has been around for centuries is. I mean, we're dealing with it right now in Los Angeles with Spencer Pratt. That weird ass bitch ass white man's house burned down and he handled fire insurance. So now I gotta deal with him for six months.

[Tan France]

Do you know what's fucking crazy? Crazy though. People fall for it every time. Stupid. Are you. Look what happened the last time we fell for some clown. He's now running our country. Yes.

[Lacey Mosley]

Donald Trump didn't get enough hugs from his dad and his weird. His weird looking ass family. And they only gave him a little tiny one million dollar loan to start off his grifting scheme.

[Tan France]

I know.

[Lacey Mosley]

And, and the left, the liberals, the cool people never let him sit at the table or give him no casino gambling licenses. And now the whole world has to. To suffer.

[Tan France]

That's right. And we didn't learn a lesson. Even in California didn't learn their lesson. And now they're propping up. Oh, Spencer Pratt. I need you to know Pratt means something else in England. Do you know what Pratt means in England?

[Lacey Mosley]

No, but I would love to, so I can use it.

[Tan France]

Pratt basically means you're a dick. It just means a. A hole. Absolute Pratt. Like it's usually a guy and it's like that tool that. A hole that every Circle's got, every community's got the fucking A hole. That's what a Pratt is. Of course. His name, Spencer fucking Pratt.

[Lacey Mosley]

Accurate name, perfect name.

[Tan France]

Right?

[Lacey Mosley]

On me. Yeah, I mean, I guess this apology is out there. At least he took the opportunity to apologize. But at the same time, you spent most of your life with your loved one trying to ruin other people's lives. And I don't know if I'm sorry is going to help with that.

[Tan France]

I'm going to say this, which is shocking. Brace yourself. Back in the day, I know it was a lot harder for them to be who they are naturally in the 70s, 80s, 90s. So I understand that it's hard. However, that didn't mean that you had to go and take that and use it against your own people. I understand it was hard, but even an apology now isn't really going to cut it. You could have just dealt with your own shit and not inflicted pain on others.

[Lacey Mosley]

And unfortunately hurt people. Hurt people. But white men do it on a much larger scale. It's not just their families that they're hurting. Um, they're also going to reach out into the communities and try to hurt others. If they're an ambitious hurt person, oh, we're all in for a world of trouble. They get up every day and that's why they open their eyes. It's like, how can I inflict pain on others today? That is my life.

[Tan France]

I can't be the only, I can't be the only afflicted one. Somebody else is going to be punished.

[Lacey Mosley]

I always say those types of people, if you can't look in a mirror, baby, they looking out the window. Which I got going on.

[Tan France]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

I can't face myself. I'm all in your shit. Okay, so now let's move on to Dr. George Rikers. So in the year 2000, the state of Florida, a lot of Florida going

[Tan France]

on here, I mean that can't be a surprise to any of us.

[Lacey Mosley]

Florida is so embarrassing. Like truly. In the year 2000, the state of Florida hired Dr. George Rickers, which perfect last name because you wrecking shit. To defend the state's ban on adoption by gay couples. Arkansas hired him for the same job in 2004 and he did it again in Florida in 2007. He was a professor of neuropsych psychiatry at the University of South Carolina and our ordained Baptist minister and he co founded the Family Research Council. I mean, I guess like this makes sense to me because I be at the gay club on Saturday and sometimes the church on Sunday. It does feel like I'm in the what just has more rules. So he was an officer and scientific adviser for the national association of Research and Therapist Therapy of Homosexuality.

[Tan France]

Can I stop you for a second? I feel like I know where the story's gonna end, but I just need to ask, did anyone look at his hard drive and did they find kitty porn on there? Ding, ding, ding. Yeah, always the fucking case, Mark. Always a fucking gay. Sorry to jump the shark. Please continue on.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yep. Because he was trying to ban gay people from adopting children, remember?

[Tan France]

Of course. Yes. Yeah, of course he is.

[Lacey Mosley]

Where's he thoughts coming from? So he said the gay parents were a danger to their children. So it was shocking. No out to us that he was caught coming home from a European vacation with a male escort named Lucian, who he found on rentboy.com in 2010.

[Tan France]

Shocker.

[Lacey Mosley]

What the hell is rentboy.com and why the hell has the government not shut that down? I just feel like the government in general should just be searching online sketchy ass titles for websites and, and going straight to those people's IP addresses in their homes. Like, please be serious.

[Tan France]

We can track American citizens for fucking any random bit of shit. Like we're always being tracked, yet we can't find these. Do you know why? Well, I was about to say because the people who, who, who would be

[Lacey Mosley]

tracking them are like involved.

[Tan France]

Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

So at first George said he hired the man to carry his luggage because he just had surgery. You know how you gotta go on rental boy.com Europe and then they carry your luggage bag.

[Tan France]

I always have prostitutes with me because I find difficult carrying my bag. So yeah, I always.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah, they don't have nobody who works at TSA who does that. Don't worry about that. You can't hire like a car company. No, no, no, no.

[Tan France]

Poor old guy.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah, yeah. So he said he wasn't able to lift anything. I feel like he was lifting something.

[Tan France]

George.

[Lacey Mosley]

He also tried to explain himself with a Facebook post. He says I deliberately spend time with sinners with the loving goal of trying to help them. Remember we said that's why they do it, so they can be around the people they want to be around.

[Tan France]

That's right.

[Lacey Mosley]

He resigned from NARTH and hasn't been hired as an anti gay expert with witnessed since then.

[Tan France]

So something doesn't seem right. How's he not an expert on this?

[Lacey Mosley]

He is an expert on it, but like not for the reasons that they wanted him to. And so as far as we know, there's no involvement with any. Like the escort was of age it seems. I'm not getting any flags there, but I'm sorry. Rentaboy.com sounds like, sounds like you involved in this stuff that she was talking about. And I would argue that a queer gay couple or lesbian couple wanting to adopt are going to be some of the most loving families. Because if they can't conceive and they really want a child, they want that child.

[Tan France]

That wasn't an accident. I know many a straight couple who've had an accident and I know a lot of shitty straight parents. A lot of shitty straight parents. Whenever I hear that argument, I get it constantly, constantly online. Oh, those poor boys are yours. I'm like, watch how I raise my kids and watch how beautiful I am with my kids. And I see you with yours and I'm going to watch out for your neighbor's daughter, you dirty bastard.

[Lacey Mosley]

Right? Because they, they, they still, there's still the straight adage of like, oh, boys are easier than girls. I'm like, yeah, because you don't raise them. And then they become our problem. Like, how are y' all raising kids? And then they're always like, oh, queer people, gay people want to put their agenda onto our kids. And it's like, you're the one asking your 4 year old if they have a girlfriend.

[Tan France]

Uh huh.

[Lacey Mosley]

After they get leave, you know, preschool.

[Tan France]

Yeah, yeah. Like who's doing it with every one of these people? Just like with this fuckwit, every one of these people. I'm like, show me your fucking hard drive. Show me your fucking hard drive. If you're thinking about what I'm doing to my kids, I want to know what's on your hard drive. You dare?

[Lacey Mosley]

Because what makes you jump in your logic to that being the immediate thing that these people would do? And a lot of times we're projecting our own thought process onto other people. That's why the Internet is just so insufferable now. Oh yeah, you know, know the famous meme that's like, oh, someone says I love pancakes. And then, and someone's in the comments like, so why do you hate waffles? Yeah, yeah, that's a whole different sentence. Oh yeah, you think about waffles. I'm talking about pancakes.

[Tan France]

Absolutely.

[Lacey Mosley]

We have two more before we get out of here. Richard Curtis. So Dick Curtis. Richard Curtis, Republican, Washington state legislator.

[Tan France]

Oh, I thought you meant the director. I was like, what?

[Lacey Mosley]

You actually, I was literally about to say not the director.

[Tan France]

I was going to say he's the nicest Guy. I love that guy.

[Lacey Mosley]

No, Rick Curtis is great. We're gonna call him Dick Curtis. We're not gonna put no shade on Rick Curtis's name. Okay.

[Tan France]

Richard Curtis is wonderful. Thank you so much.

[Lacey Mosley]

He's wonderful.

[Tan France]

Dick Curtis is who we talk about doing.

[Lacey Mosley]

Dick Curtis, the legislator. Okay. He repeatedly voted against gay rights measures in his state. He voted in 2005 and 2006 against the bill that granted civil rights protections to gays and lesbians. And in 2007 voted against a bill that created domestic partnership for same sex couples. The same year he was in Spokane for a retreat to the discuss the upcoming legislative session. However, he went to the Hollywood erotic boutique on October 26 and met an escort named Cody who accompanied him to the Davenport Tower Hotel.

[Tan France]

Let me guess.

[Ad Voice 1]

He.

[Tan France]

It's just because he's such a good Christian, he wants to read the Bible to this person and tell them that this was a sin. And I'm going to help you get back onto the straight.

[Lacey Mosley]

Had to go to the hotel because, you know, hotels have the Bible.

[Tan France]

Could find the Bible.

[Lacey Mosley]

That was the only place he could find the Bible. At 3:30am yeah. In the drawer. So they could have you a popular reading Samaritan.

[Tan France]

What a good Samaritan. I bet his parents are proud.

[Lacey Mosley]

So they arrived at 3:30am you know, to read the Bible. They had sex. So you can show what you're not

[Tan France]

supposed to be doing. Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

And after which Richard. Dick. Excuse me, Dick. Fell asleep. The escort said Dick agreed to pay him $1,000 for the sex and then reneged on the deal. Not you. Stealing. You're stealing also.

[Tan France]

I know this is harsh, but when you look like that. Everyone I'm looking at a picture. When you look like that, you need to offer more than $1,000 for that boy to have sex with you.

[Ad Voice 2]

Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

For anybody to have sex with you with that matter. Like your. Your lips are giving. Like more like it's giving extra when they pull the drawer out on Law and Order. Like it's. Are you alive, sir?

[Tan France]

Y.

[Lacey Mosley]

Because your lips aren't. Tell your lips that they. They need circulation because they're not getting it. You imagine them little crusties on your. You with that. That 70s porn stash. This is a community service. You owe him a lot more than $1,000. Buy Cody a home.

[Tan France]

Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

And some eye wash or something. You know, like. I don't know.

[Tan France]

Wow.

[Lacey Mosley]

I would have eyes closed. Just not. I could o. Dissociation top 10, baby. That face. Please. When Dick decided that he was going to not Pay the escort. Dick. Call the police now. You gonna call the police on the escort, you Dick? We need to whip your ass. Dick claimed that he wasn't gay and accused Cody of extortion, but later told prosecutors he wanted the charges dropped. Dick resigned his seat in 2007. So, you know, if you work in politics, I would imagine your rapport with law enforcement is probably stronger than the average person he's calling his dogs out on Cody for. I don't think that prostitution or sex work should be illegal. It's one of the oldest professions, if not the oldest. It should be protected, and it be. Should be safe.

[Tan France]

Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

Because it's going to happen regardless. I say it all the time. If men had coochie, it'd be on the stock market.

[Tan France]

Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

So, like, that, to me, is not the issue. The issue is, like, you didn't pay this man for their services.

[Tan France]

Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

And then you tried to incarcerate this person. On top of that. You suck.

[Tan France]

Insane. However, how. Not just you suck, you're so fucking stupid. Like, you've drawn attention to this. How dumb are you? Also all these fucking idiots in politics. I'm like, if you are a closeted homosexual. Homosexual, why are you in politics? That's like me trying to pretend I'm straight with the job that I do. People would find out in a heartbeat, you idiot. There are more eyes on you. Why would you do that? That's so dumb. Fox, man.

[Lacey Mosley]

Here's my theory. So I think many, many, many people who are on my side of the camera in Hollywood, whether you know it or not, and I know some for sure. Again, not outing, are on the spectrum of some kind of homosexuality, whether it be bi, pan, you know, gay, straight, gay, you know, lesbian, even asexual. They're on there, right?

[Tan France]

Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

And they love entertainment because maybe we. Like. That's a stereotype that I'm not gonna refute, is that. Give me a moment. I will perform. Now, a lot of people in our industry tend to be more conventionally attractive. I call DC Politics Hollywood for ugly. People. Like, you still want to be a pageant girl.

[Tan France]

You still want to give speech.

[Lacey Mosley]

You want cameras. You want the paparazzi following you up the Capitol steps. You want to get on the floor and give your sassy speech. And so how can you do that but still be closeted? You go to D.C. and they don't care about how you look. They care about how much power you amass.

[Tan France]

So do you know what? That's a really fair read. Okay, I'll take that Right So I'm like.

[Lacey Mosley]

I'm like. He was like, how can I be

[Ad Voice 1]

one of the girls?

[Lacey Mosley]

But the girls don't know.

[Tan France]

But.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah, but some of the girls know. The girls I pay.

[Tan France]

No.

[Lacey Mosley]

The girls I pay.

[Tan France]

No.

[Lacey Mosley]

But honestly, I don't think our community has to be that welcoming either, because I. I don't, for one, think that Dick should be living in his truth. In our community, you can live in the truth and maybe find you some bigoted homosexuals to hang out with, but I don't want to see you at Pride. You have a nasty spirit. You calling the police on sex workers. You got nothing to stay away from the community.

[Tan France]

Yeah. You've got nothing to be proud of. Don't come to.

[Lacey Mosley]

No, no, you. You find you some evil homosexuals to hang out with, you're right there on the. On the Senate floor.

[Tan France]

You all hate each other. You'll hate yourselves. It's fine.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah, hang out with Lindy Graham. We know.

[Ad Voice 1]

It's us.

[Tan France]

Yes, yes.

[Lacey Mosley]

You got it.

[Tan France]

Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

And the last one we have here with a beautiful last name to match. We've got some good ones, Pratt. Now, we know that's a piece of shit that works. We've got Ted Haggard. Haggard is a great last name.

[Tan France]

Oh, please, have got a picture. Is he Haggard?

[Lacey Mosley]

I really. Yes. Can we get Ted Hacker?

[Tan France]

Oh, ding, ding, ding.

[Lacey Mosley]

Very haggard.

[Tan France]

Good for him.

[Lacey Mosley]

Oh, why is his hairline running towards me but leaving the size behind?

[Tan France]

He looks like a cough. He's got the mouth of a cough.

[Lacey Mosley]

That's. Yeah. Also, somebody with this kind of bone structure really should never make, like, get this close to a camera.

[Tan France]

Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

Because this feels like a threat. Sir, I'm calling the police.

[Tan France]

Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Is he. Is he a. A preacher man? He looks like, you know.

[Lacey Mosley]

You know he is. Look at that suit. Evangelical leader.

[Tan France]

Really? I was about to say evangelical leader, but I didn't want to call out.

[Lacey Mosley]

No, that's evangelical soup.

[Tan France]

I knew it. Me. That was. Wow. I can't believe how good I am at this game. Wow.

[Lacey Mosley]

You really are. Name that scammer, and where do they were?

[Tan France]

Wow.

[Lacey Mosley]

10 out of 10. Ted Haggard was the leader of a 14,000 member new life Mega church in Colorado Springs and was campaigning against legalizing same sex marriage when his gay sex scandal broke in 2006. I personally do. I'm not. Once the church gets to the word mega, like when mega is in front of a church, that, to me, is no longer a community center.

[Tan France]

Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

If I can't leave, it's a corporation. And Shake my pastor's hand.

[Tan France]

Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

This is too large of a. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Tan France]

No, no. It's literally just a corporation.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah, I understand opening many satellite churches and maybe bringing up other people. And a lot of churches do that black way. The church is dead in that person's community. But once we get to MEGA and they pass in the credit card swiper for ties and offering, we've gone a step too far.

[Tan France]

Agreed, agreed. No, no. It's literally. You're just going to work on a Sunday. Like, this is my job. I'm going to work. I pay these people. This is a job I pay for.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah. And. And for me, I'm like, how much community outreach are you doing? Where is the benevolence offering?

[Tan France]

Oh, wait, sorry, sorry. That's. I can answer that. Zero. Zilch. Couldn't give a fuck.

[Lacey Mosley]

Ask for statements. I think that's something that churches should start to do. There should be like an auditing, you know, why would you. Where the community can come and see where the money that they've given has gone.

[Tan France]

Disagree. If you've chosen to join that corporation, that money's gone. More fool you. More fool if you've decided to join that MEGA church and listen to that person who's sprouting, spouting hate on that pulpit. More fool you. You don't get a right to look at that statement. He can buy all those Bentley he wants because you've given him your money.

[Lacey Mosley]

If it's big at church, if it's a church where they're trying to claim that they're doing good. But if you go into bigger church babes, you're in the scam. You're in the scam. I don't care if they tell you, take your money and use it for anything.

[Tan France]

Exactly. They're telling you that they want us to not get married and they want us to burn up the stake, get the out of here, give them any money and just do what they can, do what they want with it. It's not your right to ask what. And if you get upset that they're using their money, your money, for. For them mentally. Huh? You gave them your money. They were scammed. Yeah, yeah. You wanted them to talk hate on that pulpit, not take care of people, not be kind to people, not do what Jesus did. So, yeah, you're right. Absolutely. You don't need. You don't need a statement. Get the out of here.

[Lacey Mosley]

And I hope if it ever comes time for you to need the church's help, I hope you See who they really are. There was a girl on TikTok who did like, a viral TikTok where she called a lot of churches asking for formula.

[Tan France]

Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

And all the Christian churches were like, I don't know what to do, girl. I don't know how to help you, girl. Da, da, da. She called some strip clubs, and the strippers showed out and showed up.

[Tan France]

I know someone in my life right now who reached out to a church. I'm in Utah. We've got a lot of Mormon churches here, and the Mormon churches are usually wonderful. But she reached out, and she gives 10% tithing every paycheck. 10% goes out of her account. And she needed help. Didn't help her. No one helped her. I thought, there you are, young lady. There you are.

[Lacey Mosley]

At that point, you got to bring the. The 10% that's coming out of your check receipts to the service and act the fool. I will go to FedEx. Kinko. I would print that shit out big as hell. I would go right up in the tabernacle, and I'm like, is this God's will? Because I thought we were supposed to be helping. And I've done my part, and nobody has done theirs. I bring a camera, I bring YouTubers and a ring light. We going viral, like, because the hypocrisy is wild. That money is supposed to go to the community. I mean, we talked about this on this podcast earlier or, you know, years ago. But, Joel, Austin, when there was this huge, like, hurricanes in Houston, closed the doors to the church. When people were displaced from their homes and everything was flooding. That is what the church is for. That's why you don't pay taxes.

[Tan France]

Taxes, yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

You supposed to be out.

[Tan France]

Absolutely.

[Lacey Mosley]

But instead, y' all want to be out here hurting people. Too busy hurting people. So Ted was forced to resign after his sex scandal as the president of the politically powerful national association of Evangelicals after admitting that he had bought meth from and had a sexual encounter with a gay sex worker.

[Tan France]

Whoo.

[Lacey Mosley]

So meth is the. That's a little cherry on top. Is like, not only were you.

[Tan France]

He's enjoying his life.

[Lacey Mosley]

You were enjoying your life. He was having a good little circuit.

[Tan France]

Okay.

[Lacey Mosley]

Okay, sir, We. We jumped with the math. But he's been married to his wife Gail since 1978, and they have five children. In 2022, he was accused of the same things. Yes. Again, using meth and having same sex relationships at his new church, St. James Church in Colorado Springs. So he didn't last learned his lesson. He Moved churches. He said, I'm not gay no more. Y' all don't go over to Colorado Springs and ask them nothing about me, Okay?

[Tan France]

I got gay over here. I was. I was only gay over there.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah.

[Tan France]

I've gone to conversion therapy. It really works.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah. Honestly, moving out of the city made me not gay no more. The city was making me gay. And so then when I left, I was like, ooh, delivered.

[Tan France]

Yeah. Really has that effect on people. Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

And he got caught again in 2022. So imagine. This is what I always think, too, if people get a dui. It's rare that someone gets a DUI and it's their first time driving intoxicated. Right? Like, everyone's going to say that because they don't want to say, like, man, I've been driving great as fuck. I've been driving great. All great.

[Tan France]

Usually so good at this.

[Lacey Mosley]

Right? I'm a great drunk driver. No one's going to say that. They're going to say, this is my first time. I only had a couple drinks. I was on an empty stomach, sleep. You know, like, they're going to say this. It's just a natural human condition and getting into why it's so embarrassing and sad and dangerous, and hopefully if you have one out there, like, you understood there was a mistake and no one got hurt, and you move on with your life. Things happen.

[Tan France]

We all do it again. Learn that lesson.

[Lacey Mosley]

Don't do it again. And if you have been driving and you know you was lit when you got home, if you come into your parking garage and. Or on the street and your. Your car parked a little crazy in the morning, let that be your lesson before you harm yourself or somebody else on the road. That's your dui. I know, I know you done parked your car. The wheels wasn't looking sober, huh? But the same thing for me goes with this situation of him getting caught again, you know, using meth and. And having, you know, sex with a. A male sex worker is. I bet you the two times you got caught were not the two times you didn't.

[Tan France]

100%. Are you kidding me? He. This is one in 100. He just got caught.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah. I feel like the girls know you on Back Page. I feel like the girls know you on all that on the. The grinders. Yes. And so the scam today and to end our Pride month, on a highlight note, is that one truth always comes to light eventually. And two, like, these type of bigots still exist today, and they're still down low still. I mean, we're still. See, I mean, Kristi Gnomes husband has a whole. You know, he likes to cosplay with titties and shit like that. And a sex worker outed him. I don't think normal people, if you have a fetish, I don't think there's anything against that. It's that the people who come out and openly preach against the things I

[Tan France]

was going to say, that the people who fight against their own community, yet they are doing those things. They are the issue. That's my biggest gripe. I'm like, don't hate on your own fucking community. Don't make it worse for people just because it's bad for you.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah. And I mean, the term closet itself means that you are in an enclosed space with the door closed alone.

[Tan France]

Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

If you go back, be closeted, please be in an enclosed space with the door closed alone. How you gonna be outside bothering people for that freedom?

[Tan France]

Just because you're jealous of that freedom?

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah, exactly. Because you're so mad that you can't live in your truth, but you still want to hang around the girls.

[Tan France]

Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

But you want to pretend you hate us.

[Tan France]

Yeah. 100%.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yes. Oh, my gosh, Tan, you have had so many amazing opinions, thoughts, stories. This was such a blast chatting with you today.

[Tan France]

I've looked at this lady. Thanks so much. I could gossip all day.

[Lacey Mosley]

I know. I just want to chat with you. See, we always ask at the end of the show, where would you like to be found? Anything you want to promote socials. It could be whatever, because the congregation is going to want to find you. They're nice.

[Tan France]

The only thing I want you to check out is honorable gays. It's basically me doing this, but about. Well, I was about to say about other people's lives. This was about other people's lives. I just give my very unfiltered opinion and everything. Everyone else's lives, it's on honorable gaze on YouTube. You'd love it. Love it.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yes. I mean, listen, you got. You got a little sample, a little taste right now, Tan. Okay. I know that fully unhinged tan. I cannot even wait to tap in myself. So thank you for giving us some honorable gays at the end of Pride. We love it. Yes. Tap into honorable gays, y'.

[Tan France]

All.

[Lacey Mosley]

Scam Goddess. The television show is on Hulu right now. You can watch all the episodes. It might be some. I might be cooking something up, y'. All. So you might want to watch all them episodes. Also, you can get my book Scam Goddess anywhere books are sold or the audiobook anywhere you want to put it. Ears and it is me narrating that book y'.

[Ad Voice 1]

All.

[Lacey Mosley]

So get into my lore and see revolving scams and leave us a review on Apple Reviews. If you love us, do something nice for some queer people at the end of Pride month or and for some as people of color you can hit two two minorities in one three. I'm a woman. You get three three for one on Apple podcast. Go ahead and leave us five stars and a review. We appreciate it and congregation. I want I want you to get out there and stay out of the closet.

[Tan France]

Out of the closet.

[Lacey Mosley]

Pray the gay to stay Scam Goddess Scam Goddess stars and is hosted by me, Lacey Mosley, AKA Scam Goddess. Our producer is Jessica Cisneros and our audio engineer is Rich Garcia. Research for the show is conducted by Kate Doyle.

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[Lacey Mosley]

Hey everyone, it's Kelly Ripa and season four of let's Talk Off Camera is here. No glam, no script, just real conversations, honest stories and plans. Plenty of laughs. Every week we're bringing you candid conversations, behind the scenes stories and the kind of unfiltered talk you only get off camera with guests like Oprah, Kate Hudson, Nikki Glaser, and more. You never know where the conversation will go. Catch new episodes of let's Talk off camera. Wherever you get your podcasts.