Smooth Criminal Tanya Smith w/ Margaret Cho

Summary

Scam Goddess Episode Summary: "Smooth Criminal Tanya Smith" with Margaret Cho

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Episode Overview

In this electrifying episode of Scam Goddess, host Laci Mosley teams up with the legendary comedian and actress Margaret Cho to delve into the intricate world of fraud and scams. Titled "Smooth Criminal Tanya Smith," the episode offers a captivating blend of comedy, true crime insights, and historical con artist tales. Listeners are taken on a rollercoaster journey through Tanya Smith's elaborate wire fraud schemes, all while enjoying the witty banter between Laci and Margaret.

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Guest Introduction: Margaret Cho

Timestamp: [02:25]

Laci Mosley warmly welcomes Margaret Cho to the show, highlighting her impressive accolades:

Laci Mosley: "She's currently touring on her Live and Livid Standup tour and tickets for new 2025 dates are on sale right now. Plus, her new music album Lucky Gift will be released on February 14th of 2025."
Timestamp: [02:17]

Margaret Cho expresses her excitement and pride in joining the Scam Goddess congregation:

Margaret Cho: "Thank you. I'm such a longtime listener, longtime congregation. I love you, Scam Goddess. I'm so proud to be able to be on it."
Timestamp: [02:25]

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Discussion Points

Mariah Carey and Valentine's Day Album

Timestamp: [03:21]

Laci and Margaret dive into Mariah Carey's dominance of the Christmas season and transition into Margaret's upcoming Valentine's Day album, Lucky Gift. They discuss the commercialization of holidays and the importance of self-love:

Margaret Cho: "My album is all about love and loving yourself. So it's like, maybe Valentine's Day can be, you can be your own Valentine."
Timestamp: [03:59]

Laci Mosley: "Even if you have a partner, you can still be your own Valentine."
Timestamp: [04:02]

Personal Experiences with Scams

Timestamp: [10:31]

Margaret shares her personal encounters with scams, including a story about being scammed into buying gift cards online during the pandemic:

Margaret Cho: "I tried to buy this cat online and they're like, 'Do you have Zelle?' Can you just 'attack'?"
Timestamp: [17:47]

Margaret Cho: "I ended up losing like $2,000. The cat never came."
Timestamp: [17:18]

Laci elaborates on the red flags in such scams, emphasizing the urgency and unconventional payment methods:

Laci Mosley: "They rushed you, too. That's a part of scamming is the urgency."
Timestamp: [19:11]

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Historic Hoodwinks: The Story of Tanya Smith

Timestamp: [23:49]

In the Historic Hoodwinks segment, Laci and Margaret unravel the intricate tale of Tanya Smith, a mastermind behind a $40 million wire fraud scam that eluded the FBI for decades.

Early Life and Motivation

Timestamp: [27:02]

Tanya Smith grew up in North Minneapolis with her parents, five siblings, and a Doberman named Black Power. Inspired by legendary musician Prince, Tanya developed a keen sense for money and fraud from a young age.

Margaret Cho: "She was homies with friends like Prince. That's incredible."
Timestamp: [29:37]

Scamming Techniques

Timestamp: [34:04]

Tanya's scamming prowess was evident as she impersonated bank employees to manipulate security protocols:

Laci Mosley: "She would call up an elite private school and rave about her bright daughters to get them accepted. That's her scamming methods."
Timestamp: [34:35]

Tanya evolved her schemes from helping friends with utility bills to orchestrating large-scale bank fraud:

Laci Mosley: "She could impersonate bank employees to set up wire transfers of up to $5,000."
Timestamp: [35:34]

FBI Interactions and Trials

Timestamp: [44:13]

Despite her elaborate schemes, Tanya's interactions with the FBI were hampered by biases and skepticism:

Laci Mosley: "They knew she couldn't be the mastermind and wanted to find the real guy."
Timestamp: [44:38]

Tanya's absurd defense during her first trial leveraged her identical twin sister, leading to her acquittal:

Laci Mosley: "She argued that it could have been her fugitive twin sister committing the crimes."
Timestamp: [50:55]

Prison and Escape

Timestamp: [56:00]

After serving a portion of her 24-year sentence, Tanya executed a daring escape by disguising herself and walking out of prison:

Laci Mosley: "She dressed up as a lawyer and simply walked out."
Timestamp: [55:57]

Her escape showcased her confidence and meticulous planning, further cementing her status as a legendary con artist.

Aftermath and Memoir

Timestamp: [57:00]

Post-escape, Tanya continues her life of luxury and repurposes her scamming skills to secure a literary agent for her memoir, Never Saw Me Coming:

Margaret Cho: "You can be anything you want, including a criminal."
Timestamp: [68:14]

Laci and Margaret humorously speculate on Tanya's current endeavors, blending admiration with comedic disbelief.

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Listener Letters

Timestamp: [60:07]

In the listener letter segment, "Derek" shares his (semi-harmless) scams involving buying broken phones on eBay and his cousin's Walmart gift card fraud. Laci and Margaret engage in playful banter, highlighting the often thin line between petty scams and genuine criminal activities.

Derek: "I bought broken phones on eBay and used a hidden warranty exchange program to get new ones. Then, I sold them for profit."
Timestamp: [61:21]

Margaret Cho: "That's nice. That's a nice thing."
Timestamp: [63:06]

The segment underscores the show's blend of humor with serious discussions about fraud.

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Conclusion and Final Thoughts

As the episode wraps up, Laci Mosley and Margaret Cho reflect on the multifaceted nature of scams, the human elements behind them, and the societal perceptions of fraudsters. They encourage listeners to stay vigilant and informed, blending insightful commentary with their signature comedic styles.

Laci Mosley: "Stop waiting for tomorrow. Don't wait. We don't know how much time we have."
Timestamp: [68:14]

Margaret Cho: "Never try to buy gift cards in the middle of the night. Say no."
Timestamp: [67:57]

The episode concludes with festive New Year wishes, leaving listeners both entertained and enlightened.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Margaret Cho on Self-Love:

  "You can be your own Valentine. That would be the best."
  Timestamp: [03:59]

• Laci on Handling Scams:

  "If something feels off, listen to your body. Your nervous system knows."
  Timestamp: [20:05]

• Margaret Cho on Tanya's Intelligence:

  "How incredible that is, that is like genius level."
  Timestamp: [37:19]

• Laci on Tanya's Trial Defense:

  "Using a twin to get acquitted? That's brilliant."
  Timestamp: [50:58]

• Final Encouragement:

  "Don't wait. We don't know how much time we have."
  Timestamp: [68:14]

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Final Remarks

"Smooth Criminal Tanya Smith" stands out as a testament to the Scam Goddess podcast's ability to intertwine humor with true crime storytelling. With the vibrant participation of Margaret Cho, the episode not only entertains but also educates listeners on the complexities of fraud and the human stories behind them. Whether you're a longtime fan or a new listener, this episode offers valuable insights wrapped in comedic brilliance.

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Stay Scheming!

Join the Scam Goddess "Con-gregation" every Tuesday for new episodes and catch classic episodes re-released every Friday. Don't miss the premiere of the Scam Goddess TV show on Freeform and Hulu on January 15th, 2025!

Transcript

[Lacey Mosley]

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[Margaret Cho]

Dad, I'm broke and I need a place to stay until I figure out.

[Unknown]

What the rest of my life looks like. So a couple of days when his.

[Lacey Mosley]

Daughter moves back in.

[Unknown]

The last time you walked out that.

[Margaret Cho]

Door, he looked back at me and.

[Lacey Mosley]

Gave me a double bird.

[Margaret Cho]

I was 18. The double bird was how I ended all our conversations. The wheels come off. Can we try to talk to each other like rational adults?

[Unknown]

Have you watched the news lately?

[Margaret Cho]

That's not a thing anymore. New Wednesdays, 8, 7 Central on ABC.

[Lacey Mosley]

And stream on Hulu.

[Unknown]

Scams Robbery and fraud. Scam Car robbery and fraud. Scam Goddess was popping. Congregation Happy New Year. New Year, New me, New Year, New scheme. Yes. Congregation y'all already know I'm what? Yes, excited. But I'm also incredibly lucky to be joined by one of the greats I'm talking about a true pioneer. She was named one of Rolling Stones 50 Best Standup Comics of all time. And CNN chose her as one of the 50 people who changed American comedy. And I agree. She's currently touring the on her Live and Livid Standup tour and tickets for new 2025 dates are on sale right now. Plus, her new music album Lucky Gift will be released on February 14th of 2025. But you can listen to the album's title track right now. Get into the single. Yes, I am talking about the one, the only, the Queen herself, Margaret Cho. Margaret, welcome to the show.

[Margaret Cho]

Thank you. I'm such a longtime listener, longtime congregation. I love you. I show. I'm so proud to be able to be on it. And I'm so glad we finally got to make it happen.

[Unknown]

I'm so glad we got to make this happen. And we were talking about this a little bit before we started. We had some little technicalities, y'all. But like, Margot was like, oh, I think I Should be a deacon. I feel like we have to have a better title. I feel like it's like, first lady of the church. You know what I mean?

[Margaret Cho]

Like, I am so in it. I'm in the front pew. I like. I like deacon because deacon is, like, very, like, it's kind of official, but it's still in the congregation. You're still, like, definitely holding it down. I'm so excited for you. I'm so excited about the show, and I'm so excited about you, and I love that we get to talk, and this is so exciting. So great.

[Unknown]

Margaret said, I'm not taking all first lady responsibilities. I am a deacon without the money. I got my white gloves. Okay.

[Margaret Cho]

So perfect.

[Unknown]

I love it. I love it. And I really wanted to, like, hone in because we were talking a little bit about your new music album, Lucky Gift, and It's coming out February 14th, and I was saying, like, okay, I don't think anybody owns Valentine's Day. Like, Mariah Carey owns Christmas. So this really could be an opportunity.

[Margaret Cho]

Well, you know, and also, people have such complicated feelings about Valentine's Day. Like, when they feel, like, lonely or any of those feels, like, where I don't have a partner, can I still celebrate? And like, mine, my album is all about love and loving yourself. So it's like, maybe Valentine's Day can be. You can be your own Valentine. Like, that would be the best.

[Unknown]

You can always. Even if you have a partner, you can still be your own Valentine.

[Margaret Cho]

You should be. You should be.

[Unknown]

Get yourself something. Even if you got a boo, they get you something, too. Double gifts.

[Margaret Cho]

All. All that it means is, like, we just celebrate love in all of its forms and self. Love has to be in there as well. But Mariah has been, like, really scamming everybody for, like, the house. Like, she kind of, like, came in, but who was before, Like, Bing Crosby? We didn't have, like, a legitimate, like, Christmas celebrity before.

[Unknown]

And I feel like the Christmas songs before that were popping were a little, like, consenty, problematic. Wasn't there that one that was, like, cold outside. Yeah, baby, it's cold outside, where she was like, I want to leave.

[Margaret Cho]

Like, she's just trying to get up.

[Unknown]

He was like, you. I locked the doors. Please let me go. Like, yeah.

[Margaret Cho]

He won't stop saying it. It's cold outside. It's cold outside. Like, and that's just so. It is so sa. In a song.

[Unknown]

And it's like, my good sis has a coat. Babes let her go outside. She want to be outside right so. And I know they've kind of revamped the lyrics since. And that incensed some people. They're like, that's tradition. I'm like, there's a lot of things that were tradition guys that we had to get rid of. Okay.

[Margaret Cho]

That we have to stop doing. But that song is definitely a problem. And so I think Mariah has definitely sort of turned the focus onto just her. But I really do think it's the outfit. She looks so cute as that Mrs. Claus with the circle skirt. It's a skater outfit, but it's also perfect for her. So I think she. I don't know, she cracked her Kibbe code. You know, the Kibbe body system.

[Unknown]

Yes.

[Margaret Cho]

And, like, figured out what she should, like, be wearing. And so I think then she realized, oh, I'm branded by Christmas already by my body, so I'm gonna work it out in this music.

[Unknown]

She said, I got a Christmas body. She said, baby, I'm stacked like a tree. Come on.

[Margaret Cho]

She's perfect.

[Unknown]

Yes. And you know what? You're so right about her cornering that market. And, like, Mariah's our queen, so, you know, this is all just. But, like, it is kind of a scam because she really does own it, and we all believe that she owns it. And I feel like she's starting to get defrosted earlier and earlier every year, because I remember it used to be, like, the end of November, like, you know, right after Thanksgiving. Traditionally, a lot of people put up their Christmas trees, if that's what you celebrate, you know, Festivus for the rest of us, Hanukkah, you know, Kwanzaa. But if you celebrate Christmas, you put your tree up usually right after Thanksgiving. And that was when she used to defrost. I feel like she's defrosting earlier and earlier now.

[Margaret Cho]

You're right. You're right. Now. It's actually. I've noticed a difference where it started right after Halloween or even before Halloween that people are going to talk about. I think that we just want to get her out and maybe just put her on the counter. Not necessarily put her in a, you know, a warm bath.

[Unknown]

We just want to get her, like, on the shelf.

[Margaret Cho]

Yes, exactly.

[Unknown]

I'm just like, mariah, I don't think you can push it back anymore. We can't get into, like, August defrost. We can't get into June and March. Like, come on now. Come on now. As soon as you just have.

[Margaret Cho]

Every year round, year round.

[Unknown]

And I think that's why the song works, is you Hear it for like two weeks nonstop. And then you don't hear it for the other 50 weeks of the year. So then you reset. So then when you have to hear it nonstop, you're like, oh, yeah, dude, this is Christmas time. Like, yes.

[Margaret Cho]

Yeah. I wish that, like, you know, people could have seen this is what would have happened with Mariah. I met Mariah Carey. This is so weird, but I met her in like 1990, and I was at a party given by my then manager, Sandy Gallen, who is like, well managed, like Michael Jackson and all these people. And she was there and she was mad and she was like, stand. And she was talking about how she was gonna beat a bitch's ass. Like, she was. And she was talking to me like, I didn't know who she was talking about. She's like, this bitch is obsessed with me. She's at every party. If I see her, I. I'm gonna beat her ass. I'm gonna beat her ass. And I was like, I don't know who this is, but I'm just here to. I'm like, okay. And then somebody came up and gave Mariah a cassette tape. And it was the mix of her latest album, which I don't even know which album that was. And she was like, oh. And she was like, oh, this is my new album. This is my new album. She was just looking at the cassette tape and I just was staring at her. I didn't know what to do. Like, it was a weird thing where when somebody clearly is so famous and talking to you and you don't know how to handle it. Also, I just gotten really high on the beach with Stephen Dorff. So I was. This is such a 90s.

[Unknown]

What a time I wish I could.

[Margaret Cho]

Have would time travel and go back then and say, you know what you were gonna one day you wanna be today, you wanna beat a bitch's ass and you wanna play this cassette tape of your new album. But in a few years, you will be the Queen of Christmas.

[Unknown]

You will own Christmas, okay? They will think of you before Jesus in.

[Margaret Cho]

You won't ever have to beat a bitch's ass. And all of this old media will be streaming and you won't need any of the. You know, you won't need a pencil for your cassette tape ever again.

[Unknown]

Right? You won't even own something to play a cassette tape. You won't be able to find it.

[Margaret Cho]

No. I wonder whose ass she wanted to beat. I guess we could ask her now, but I'm not.

[Unknown]

I'll tell you my guest off the air. Because I don't want to deal with that lady no more on this podcast, but.

[Margaret Cho]

Oh, I think I know what you're talking about. We are thinking of the same question.

[Unknown]

We might be thinking. Yeah, we definitely are. But. But yes. So. So, Margaret Cho, you gotta own Valentine's Day. I love this. I also love that this is universal love. It's like, love thy neighbor, love yourself, love your partner, if you have one, love your life, you know, love the planet. Look, I feel like we can get real broad with just the love. And I love that we wanna be.

[Margaret Cho]

That we need to love the planet, because the planet definitely needs love more than anything else. But it's like, you know, it's just we put so much onus on, like, we have to find that partner. We have to find that. And the songs. The song Lucky Gift is about falling in love with a person, but that was a situationship that didn't work out. But even if the situation didn't work out, the song can still be a hit. So I'm still going with it.

[Unknown]

I love it. Look, somebody else's situation. It could be inspiring.

[Margaret Cho]

Yeah, it could be inspiring.

[Unknown]

Or not inspiring. Maybe they listen to it and they're like, I don't feel as much love as Margaret is singing in this song, so I'mma leave my boo.

[Margaret Cho]

Right. Use it for so many different ways.

[Unknown]

I love it. Multifaceted, multipurpose.

[Margaret Cho]

Yes.

[Unknown]

So, Margaret, we always ask on this show, what is your relationship with scams? Do you love them? Do you hate them? Have you been scammed? Have you run any that are past the statute of limitations? It could literally be anything.

[Margaret Cho]

Thank you. Well, I have three for you. But very briefly, they really. Two of them directly relate to your show. So one is there. I was a presenter at the Grammys. It was the pre show Grammys. When White sun won the Grammy. Hari G won from the last episode, White Sun. The Kundalini Scammers. Yes, with Guru Jagat. So the guy that was sort of masterminding it for her, Hari Jiwan, he won the Grammy with White Son, the band. Then I saw them walk up and take the Grammy and I was like, that is so weird. I guess they won it for, like, new age or spiritual music everywhere.

[Unknown]

Kettle chips, Grammys, Yogi tea.

[Margaret Cho]

Everywhere, everywhere. They were like, very, very. Talk about multifaceted love. Multifaceted money. Multi scam. Multifaceted scams. Multi level scams.

[Unknown]

Yes.

[Margaret Cho]

I saw them in person and saw them win the Grammy in person. And then the second thing is Sean King slid into my DMs.

[Unknown]

Oh, Lord, oh, Lord, oh, Lord.

[Margaret Cho]

This was, like, way many years ago.

[Unknown]

Was he selling sweatshirts? What did he.

[Margaret Cho]

He. I was following him, and I didn't really know much about him. I didn't know about you, actually. I didn't know. I knew who he was, but I didn't know, like, the extent. Yeah, but I was. When I was listening to you guys talk about him, it was. So when you were all your. Your. I mean, all of the. Like, Talcum X is probably my favorite, but they were all really, really good names. And he just slid in my dms, and he's like, hey, really, really glad to see you here. Oh, Lord.

[Unknown]

I sort of did see you on Instagram. He was really glad to see you.

[Margaret Cho]

On Instagram and that I was following him, I guess.

[Unknown]

Oh, okay. So I bet you he did that to all his, like, celebrity. Like, if any celebrity followed, he probably was right in their DMs, trying to make a connection. And look, I used to follow Shawn King back in the day, too. So I do want to make that clear. Before I honestly, like, was radicalized by Melina Abdullah and, like, people who created Black Lives Matter, who I had worked, you know, like, whatever they asked me to do online or whatever, they would DM me and be like, we're doing this on Twitter. We're meeting here. We're at, you know, whatever. And, like, I started to learn about him from them. And then Ashley put up this whole TED Talk on her Patreon, and I was already seeing articles pop up. And then that's when I grabbed her and I. We did our research, and that's when I really started to unravel how insane, you know, his. His record is. So I didn't know either in the beginning. A lot of people don't. I don't. You know?

[Margaret Cho]

No, but it's such a. It's such a weird one. Like, he's such a. It's such a weird. I don't think he's on there anymore.

[Unknown]

No, I don't think he's on Instagram banned.

[Margaret Cho]

I think he's gone.

[Unknown]

Which I don't necessarily think was. It's. It's complicated for me because he was disseminating information that people, you know, were not gonna go find on their own. People are lazy these days. They ain't doing their own research. So, you know, it's not that he wasn't sharing, like, factual information. It was that he was profiting off of it under the guise of helping the people who were marginalized or the people who were in these, like, dire situations, and it's like, where did the money go? And why is it in your. And why is it going to your bank account? Those were the things that we had issue with. But wait, so he DM'd you? He said, I'm glad to see you here, Queen.

[Margaret Cho]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

And, like, kind of like.

[Margaret Cho]

And I was like, I didn't really know what to say about it. Like, and I kind of just forgot about it. But it was a weird, like, thing of, like, an acknowledgement. Like, oh, it's just, you know, thank you for being a fan. Like, kind of the thing weird. But I was, like, excited, because that is so funny, you know, thinking about his story and then listening to your podcasts on him, which is just. I mean, it was just so illuminating and so interesting.

[Unknown]

He has me blocked.

[Margaret Cho]

Oh, yeah. I try to be blocked now.

[Unknown]

No, no. Somebody has to be over there looking. I got a burner if I need. When I needed to, like, see what was going on and what thing, you know? Yeah, but. So you didn't respond?

[Margaret Cho]

No, no, I didn't really know how to. So I didn't. I didn't follow up.

[Unknown]

You, like, yeah, hello, King Kang.

[Margaret Cho]

Yeah, I might have hearted it, I think, if I had that option at that point, but I didn't really know. Like, sometimes I don't know how to handle it when somebody's, like, talking to me. Like, I'm not sure exactly what. What I should do, but that was. That was a funny way.

[Unknown]

That's so cute, Margaret. You're an icon. Like, you could, like. I'm sure they feel the same way talking to you. So I will say, like, Sean King reminds me a lot of Caroline Calloway and the way that they grift where it's like, they're taking people's money in the promise of maybe a sweatshirt or, you know, under the guise of charity and philanthropy or furthering their business, like, you know, the North Star, which was that failed newspaper where he didn't pay nobody and didn't get nobody no news, but was still taking monthly contributions well after, you know, he had shuttered the doors, so. But then when these things come to light, both of them are always like, oh, no, I thought I could do something. And then I realized I couldn't. My bad, y'all. But it's not. I'll return the money. It's not.

[Margaret Cho]

No.

[Unknown]

You know, there's no, like, real jail time. It's like, they're kind of like, in the gray area of the legal system. So they get to continue to grift because they're not doing something so egregious that the courts are coming after them. And what I do love about them both is that they can't be stopped. They won't stop. They will find any and everything to get attention or to find a way. You know, Shaun King is now Asalama Faikum. He's become a Muslim now, and he's trying to grift over at the mosque, you know.

[Margaret Cho]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Unknown]

They praying five times a day. He's scamming five times away.

[Margaret Cho]

You know, like, they find. They find their another. Another audience and that needs the information. What he is good is he's good at, like, farming information and finding out things that maybe you wouldn't necessarily be able to, like, just aggregate. Yeah. It's an aggregator, and so it's. It's helpful. But at the same time, there, he's not siphoning resources to them.

[Unknown]

No.

[Margaret Cho]

He's just giving you the information and then keeping all the money.

[Unknown]

Exactly.

[Margaret Cho]

Which Allegedly.

[Unknown]

Allegedly.

[Margaret Cho]

I mean, who knows? Who knows?

[Unknown]

But, Margaret, you said you had a third scam, and I want to get it before we go to historic hoodwings.

[Margaret Cho]

Oh, the third scam is I did get scammed during the pandemic because I was trying to get a cat online. And first of all, when you get scammed, when you. Yes, I was trying to buy a cat online. When you get scammed. The thing is, I was trying to do something wrong, like I was trying to buy a cat, which you should not buy animals, first of all. You should adopt them from a shelter. I was already wrong.

[Unknown]

No, no. I mean, look, can we just say the true thing? That sometimes them adopted animals be having a lot of trauma, and then, you know, sometimes you want a fresh one. I didn't say that. I did not say that.

[Margaret Cho]

It's like I was already, you know, doing something that I knew was not right. But that's why they get. Why they get you with the scams, because you think you're getting one over on somebody so you're less likely to be discerning because you're already being dishonest in your intention.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Margaret Cho]

And that was my fault. So I. I tried to buy this cat online and they're like, oh, yeah, yeah. You know, and then they rushed me into the purchase so fast, and they were like, well, you can't use a credit card. Do you have Zelle? Can you just attack? And I go, I don't know what Zell is. And then they were like, well, you got to do it right now. Well, you got to do it right now. You got to do it right now. And so I was running out in the middle of the night to buy gift cards, Amazon gift cards at the cbs. And, like, every point of, like, I was so nervous doing it, like. Cause I was like, this. There's something wrong with this. And I was.

[Unknown]

This 2020. What year was this?

[Margaret Cho]

This was in 2020?

[Unknown]

Yes. Okay.

[Margaret Cho]

I was so nervous and shaking when I was trying to take a photograph of the coat after I scratched the thing that I couldn't get a clear photo.

[Unknown]

Your hands were like, no, my hands.

[Margaret Cho]

Were shaking, like, don't do it. But I mad. I took, like, 10 photos, and I couldn't get the numbers to. But they ended up, like, being able to cash in the cards. And I. You know, the cat, of course, never came. And when I called to find out where the cat was, they said, well, you have to also buy a carrier that's special, and it's $1,000, and you have to buy more cards to do it. So I ended up losing, like, $2,000. I didn't even. And then it was like, on a Sunday. And I told my accountant the next day, and they're like, this is a scam.

[Unknown]

Oh, my goodness.

[Margaret Cho]

I was just. But I knew it the whole time because I was like, my heart was racing. Like, it was like I was buying drugs, which I don't do anymore, but.

[Unknown]

And they rushed you, too. That's a part of scamming is the urgency. So you don't have time to think about why they need gift cards for a cat and, like, why they can't. Why can't you just hand over the cat to me? And. But also, like, it was 2020, and I think everybody's mental health, like, just with everything that was going on and the dangers, like, we all made some decisions. We all made some decisions that we wouldn't have made if it wasn't 2020, so. Right.

[Margaret Cho]

But I was already wrong because I was trying to buy a cat where you should just adopt them from the shelter, which I know now, and I have rescue cat now. But it's like a very, you know, like, when you're already wrong, then you go into it thinking, oh, well, I'm. You know, I'm gonna get away with this.

[Unknown]

Was it a kitten?

[Margaret Cho]

It was a kitten.

[Unknown]

Oh, was it cute pictures? Was there a cute picture?

[Margaret Cho]

Really cute pictures. And, like, I just. I just fell for it. And like, you know, when I tried to get the money back or, you know, tried to, they were all gone. Like, everything was all gone. So it's definitely scam. So they got the money, but I got the education. And don't ever do that. Don't ever go to the middle of the night to the CVS and buy a bunch of gift cards.

[Unknown]

I mean, your, your heart rate was telling you that something was wrong. Your hands shaking were being like, don't do this. And so it's like sometimes you gotta pause and listen to your body because when something feels like a good choice, you typically, your nervous system isn't reacting that way. But also, they were already asking for weird means of payment. Like, wire transfers can't be reversed. Zell, like, is like, we've never seen this person before. You sure? And then they be like, okay, if you hit this button, we out of it, we been it, we not in it, we not gonna get that money back. Like, so they wanted methods of transaction that absolutely could not be disputed.

[Margaret Cho]

Right?

[Unknown]

So, you know, that was shady of them also. That's shady of them too, because they got way too much money for a cat. They could have easily went and go, grabbed you a cat from anywhere and did the right thing. So, so crazy.

[Margaret Cho]

Fuck that. So it's like there's so many things, but it was like I every, like my limbic system, everything in my body was telling me, don't do it. Everything was telling me, don't do it. Like, everything part of it, you know, and, and the fact that I'm talking to them in the middle of the night on a Sunday, like when this is supposed to be a business transaction, like, it's like so crazy. But, you know, I learned my lesson and then I joined the AARP after that so that they have a big whole scam network thing where you can, like, look out for scams that are happening to older people nowadays. And so it's a very, very good thing.

[Unknown]

I don't feel like you're. I feel like you're scamming the aarp.

[Margaret Cho]

You.

[Unknown]

You not supposed to be in there yet.

[Margaret Cho]

I'm 56. Fairly.

[Unknown]

Yeah. You scare me. You're not supposed to be in there. Yeah, but I'm glad that you are if they're giving you some, some deals and some tips.

[Margaret Cho]

Yes. Thank you. Thank you.

[Lacey Mosley]

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[Unknown]

Look, y'all, I might be an expert in scams, but I am not an expert in everything, okay? And that's why I love acorns. Because they will recommend a diversified portfolio that fits you and your money goals. Don't we all have money goals? I know we all making money moves. You don't need to be rich. Acorn lets you invest with the spare money you've got right now. You can start with $5 or even just your spare change. You don't need to feel like financial wellness is impossible because it's not. Acorns gives you small, simple steps to get you and your money on track. Basically, Acorns does the hard part so you can give your money a chance to grow. I actually use acorns and I love it. And sometimes I forget that it's there. And I'll go look and I'll be like, ooh, money. But then I'll leave the money alone because that's what investment is about. Head to acorns.com goddess or download the Acorns app to start saving and investing for your future. Today, paid non client endorsement compensation provides incentive to positively promote Acorns Tier 2 compensation provided investing involves risk. Acorn Advisors LLC and SEC registered investment advisor. View important disclosures at acorns.com/ Goddess we are going to transition to my favorite segment here, Historic Hoodwinks. This is where I will regale Margaret with a famous con cape. A group of criminals, singular actor. Maybe we love them, maybe we hate them. We will see. So, Margaret, are you ready?

[Margaret Cho]

I'm ready.

[Unknown]

Okay, so today we're going to be talking about a young black woman named Tanya Smith, which. That name already sounds so generic, and I love that for her. Who is Tanya Smith? I want to know. So she pulled off a $40 million wire fraud scam that takes the FBI decades to nail down. She started out stealing money to help needy friends and family. But eventually she used her dough to live a life of luxury. Okay, look at a queen. Look at this pose.

[Margaret Cho]

Yeah, beautiful. Look at those nails.

[Unknown]

It's giving picture day. It's giving opulence. Is that a fireplace in the background that has, like, marble around it?

[Margaret Cho]

It's very. Yeah, it's very opulent. You know, TV's like really low, so it's like very. Like, it's sensible, it's comfortable, it's warm.

[Unknown]

She also has good taste. You know how some people just are supposed to be rich? Like, look at that little vase she has in the back. It's like, just like a. A muted, like, stone color. And this plant looks like it's thriving. No crispy edges. Alive.

[Margaret Cho]

Yeah. No crispy edges. And that thing looks. It looks like it's, like, got, like, texture to it. So it's not shiny. Like, not shiny vase. Like, it's not cheap. It's not HomeGoods.

[Unknown]

Like, she's like, oh, no, it's not home goods, honey. Which. I love a HomeGoods moment.

[Margaret Cho]

No, I do too. But she's very curated. She's giving.

[Unknown]

Yes, it's giving. Like, she had an interior decorator or she knows where the girls go to get the things. Yeah, it's giving. Goop.

[Margaret Cho]

It's really goop. It's really. She's really lovely. Yes.

[Unknown]

And I love that. You're right. And her makeup is hitting, like, the contour, like, the. The eyebrow, like. Yes. The wig. The wig could be a little better, but, you know, it's.

[Margaret Cho]

Yeah. I mean, you know, but everything else is so good. Like, everything else is so manicured that I think the wig is. I mean, I'm not sure.

[Unknown]

It could be her stay at home wig, for all we know. They just came over and she just threw it on and was like, y'all want to take a little picture of me?

[Margaret Cho]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Unknown]

It's not bad, y'all, though. Don't, don't, don't, and don't. It's not the wig that you wear when you're trying to get a rich, old white man. It's not that kind of wig. Okay. It's still human hair. So I love that for her, a protective style, a queen. So I also love that she started stealing money to help friends and family. She was like, I don't got it. Yeah, but let me see if someone does.

[Margaret Cho]

Yeah. I mean, there's a kind of a Robin Hood aspect to that, which I think is really. It's really lovely.

[Unknown]

Now, I do want to say that most of the story is coming directly from the scammer herself. And Tonya's memoir, Never Saw Me Coming. Ooh. So, you know, she's telling us what she saw, and you can believe your eyes or not see.

[Margaret Cho]

I love it when they tell their own story. Like, it's, like, very. That's very Anna Delvey to me. Like, make your story the same scam.

[Unknown]

Calling your memoir Never Saw Me Coming. I know that's right. Queen. Okay.

[Margaret Cho]

I love that. I love that. That's really the genius part of it is that When a scammer can also scam. This the intellectual property of the scam.

[Unknown]

Yeah, she's. This is her ip, y'all. Y'all go pick up. Never saw me coming. I think I'm about to pick it up after this because I need to know.

[Margaret Cho]

Yeah, I need that. Yeah, I need that.

[Unknown]

So the origins of a scammer. Tanya Smith grew up in. In north Minneapolis with her parents and her five siblings, including an identical twin sister, Taryn, and the family dog, a Doberman named Black Power. Okay, y'all better have a dog named Black Power. This is.

[Margaret Cho]

Oh, sweet. Beautiful.

[Unknown]

This is beautiful. That's a big ass dog.

[Margaret Cho]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

I would be afraid of that kind of dog. Could have you ever had that kind of dog or been around that kind of dog?

[Margaret Cho]

I have, I have. They're beautiful. My. Mine were always a little bit more shaggy, not as sleek. But I do love. I love a dog called Black Power. That's so sweet and beautiful.

[Unknown]

I also just imagine, you know, black people talk to their dogs like they're just like other people in the household. They're like, black Power.

[Margaret Cho]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Get off that couch. Black Power. Go get my slippers. I told you. Black Power. Oh, gosh, I love it.

[Margaret Cho]

Yeah. So cute.

[Unknown]

But we also love to name their dog stuff, like Darren and. And Michelle.

[Margaret Cho]

Oh, Michelle is a good one. That's so cute.

[Unknown]

It's like, are you supposed to make your dog, like, spot or something? And they'd be like, ye parents, get over here. Time for kibble. So love this. Very black. Very into it. Also, having a twin, I feel like already predisposes you to scams. If I have somebody who looks like me. Oh, we're doing all the sister sisters.

[Margaret Cho]

Oh, I mean, there's you. There's got to be like a body switch. Like the switcheroo. You've got to, like. There's so much potential for scams because it's like a scam on the. The system of the body. Like, you get. You just made another one, Right. So you definitely have so many opportunities. Why not?

[Unknown]

If you're twins and you're not co valedictorian, y'all fucked up the bag. Cause look, one of y'all is bound to be good at the maths and the sciences, and the other one got the humanities. And then when it's time for y'all to do hard tests, you just switch.

[Margaret Cho]

Yeah, Right. So smart.

[Unknown]

Yes. So they were comfortable. Right. And you can see this neighborhood looks very nice. There's trees. The house behind her looks very cute. She's got on a nice coat. Dog looks very well groomed. Like you said, Margaret, that that dog is going to a groomer or they daddy taking it, you know, to the shed and giving it a fade. Oh, and I love it. So Tanya says she learned the value of money from her dad's rich friends. Fun fact, One of the kids Tanya and her siblings played with in her neighborhood was legendary musician. I'mma let you guess. Minneapolis Prince. Yes. Wow. She was homies with friends.

[Margaret Cho]

That's incredible.

[Unknown]

I love this woman already. Princess. The reason my walls are these colors is because I was trying to paint my place like the Purple Rain album. So, like all of the out, like all of the public spaces are like this periwinkle and all of the inside spaces, like the rooms and stuff are this pink. Now it was supposed to be a lighter lilac. Nobody told me paint dries darker than the swatch. And they unfortunately came out like a much deeper pink. But that was my inspiration, is I wanted it to look like Purple Rain. I love Prince.

[Margaret Cho]

I love it. I love Prince too. I love Prince too. But that's incredible. Wow.

[Unknown]

Right? That was her. That's her playmate. Okay. I know. That's right. So in 1972, 12 year old Tanya developed a huge crush on Olympian swimmer Mark Spitz, who won seven gold medals in the Munich Games that year. Now, okay, she had a crush on him. Look at the Olympic swimsuit. Fit back in the day. My goodness.

[Margaret Cho]

I do like it. It's very evil Knievel. It's like, I love how like the gold medals are very kind of like medallion.

[Unknown]

Yeah, they look like chains.

[Margaret Cho]

The gold chains from like the era. It's very disco.

[Unknown]

It is very disco because they don't have that like little ribbony shit that we have now. Like the whole thing is gold. The Olympics done cheaped out. Because this looks way more quality than what the girls are getting today.

[Margaret Cho]

No, it's very fancy.

[Unknown]

Also, I love the swims. Like they had the girl swimming naked.

[Margaret Cho]

Like very skimpy.

[Unknown]

Yes.

[Margaret Cho]

And no swim cap. Well, I guess because this is a photo shoot. So it's not. They're not in the pool, but this is cute.

[Unknown]

Yeah, I guess I was for maximum aerodynamicness, but yeah, I saw this man at the Olympics. I might be looking at him too. So Tanya said I was gonna find him by any means necessary. And I did a queen. Through dedicated research, Tanya found Mark's phone number, called him, and actually got to talk to her crush on the phone.

[Margaret Cho]

Wow.

[Unknown]

A motivated queen. She.

[Margaret Cho]

I Love that. I love that. Good for her.

[Unknown]

Right? And I don't even know how many phone books she probably had to go through.

[Margaret Cho]

Well, and Spitz is kind of a. I mean, it is like a. Like a German name, I think it's kind of probably pretty common. So you would have to call a lot of Spitzes.

[Unknown]

Like, how many times does she had to put. Hello, Mark? No. Okay, y'all have a good day, Mark. Okay, y'all enjoy dinner. Like, how many times. There's not the Internet at this time. Like, she's having. She's a hard worker.

[Margaret Cho]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

So Mark told her he was engaged to be married, which she accepted. But the thrill of finding people's phone numbers took hold of her, and she set her sights on her neck crush, Michael Jackson.

[Margaret Cho]

Oh, interesting. Okay.

[Unknown]

So she found a number she thought corresponded to Michael, but his dad, Joe Jackson, was the one who picked up the phone, and he apparently gave her an earful.

[Margaret Cho]

Oh, no.

[Unknown]

Honestly, that would make me feel closer to Michael. Cause, you know, Joe Jackson was cussing.

[Margaret Cho]

Out them kids left and right all the time. Oh, I hate him. He's so mean.

[Unknown]

He was. And it's like, would they have been as great if he wasn't whooping on them in between sets, or could they have been just as great without him whooping on them? We'll never know.

[Margaret Cho]

I think they could have just. They could have been just as great. I think that they would have been happier. You know, they would have been happier.

[Unknown]

And I think that the fallacy of that is, like, once you become successful, you start to attribute the traumas that happen to you as a part of the success. Success. And it's like, maybe that didn't. That wasn't necessary.

[Margaret Cho]

Yeah. I feel like they were so talented and so, like, universally talented in so many different ways that I think it's just they were very lucky to be, you know, imbued with that talent. And then they had the motivation to practice because he was. Joe was such a, you know, taskmaster. But the abuse is just so scary. Like, the. The lore of it doesn't mean that it necessarily needed to happen. Like, I agree. I just think they could have had happier lives.

[Unknown]

Yeah. Because when I think of, like. Like, you know, Nepo babies, which I can't even call her Nepo baby, but, you know, Nepo icons like Jamie Lee Curtis. I doubt her parents was whooping on her being, like, act good. Act better. You know, like, and she turned out to be amazing and so talented. So I don't know if it's Necessary. I don't think it is.

[Margaret Cho]

I don't know. I don't think so.

[Unknown]

But. But also, it's very iconic to get cussed out by Joe Jackson. It's like you're a part of the Jackson 5. You were the sixth one.

[Margaret Cho]

Exactly.

[Unknown]

You were next to rebuild Tanya. You were next to Reby, and I love that for you.

[Margaret Cho]

Oh.

[Unknown]

So Tanya realized the phone was a powerful tool to get things she wanted and that she could use the phone calls to do more than just chase her teenage crushes. On one of her first fraudulent phone calls, she impersonated her parents. She called up an elite private school in Minnesota and raved about how her bright daughters would be an asset to the school. The end result, both her and Taryn, her twin, got accepted. I don't think that's bad.

[Margaret Cho]

No, there's nothing bad about that. That's great.

[Unknown]

She scammed her way to higher education.

[Margaret Cho]

You know, she's just improving her station, and that's. I think it's admirable. I think it's good. I think. Why not?

[Unknown]

Good.

[Margaret Cho]

Good for her.

[Unknown]

And also, I like that she was a little boy crazy, and then she was like, okay, why am I wasting my. My. My true talents on boys? Like, let me move on to education and, like, getting the bag.

[Margaret Cho]

I like that.

[Unknown]

Yes. So Tanya's Robin Hood days. Tanya calls this next era of her phone scamming career her Robin Hood days. Since she claims she was scamming for a good cause, to get her neighbors out of utility bills and overdue mortgages. Tanya says she voided or delayed utility bills for her friends and neighbors at least three, 300 times.

[Margaret Cho]

Mm.

[Unknown]

Just by calling the utility company and being good on the phone. And I don't know what that means. I don't know. I mean, this is a different time. So she just got on the phone, was like, yeah. I don't think that they should have to pay. I'm their advocate.

[Margaret Cho]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

What about $0? Let's talk about $0. Like what? What do you say?

[Margaret Cho]

What a wonderful thing to have on your side. You know, What a great resource to tap into. I mean, I think that a lot of times these companies are, like, overcharging and, like, scamming, so they already know they're guilty and wrong, so they'll, you know, get talked out of something because they already know they've already got gotten over on so many other people. So I think this is. She's a hero.

[Unknown]

I love it. I think she found the right employee who was fed up over there at Southwestern Bell or wherever, and they helped her out. I love that. So around the same time, Tonya took her phone scams to a new level and began defrauding banks to give money to people in need. She would call one bank branch and pretend to be an employee at another branch of the same bank. Then, through smooth talking, she'd get them to reveal the security code word of the day, which was a pre Internet way to verify you had clearance to set up wire transfers. Once Tanya had the code word of the day, she would call the wire department and set up a transfer from bank reserves to any account she wanted in amounts up to $5,000.

[Margaret Cho]

Genius, that. Now it's like a genius level. Yeah, that's genius.

[Unknown]

How did you even think of this, Tanya?

[Margaret Cho]

That's so. I mean, it's so smart. It's like, I. I mean, I don't even know how any of these financial institutions work or back then, like, how incredible that is. That. That is like. Yeah, that's. I think that's beautiful.

[Unknown]

And I love. She probably just call him like, yeah, girl, it's me at Wells Fargo Minneapolis West. Mm. I'm on my lunch break, girl. Mm. So I got somebody trying to transfer, and I'm on my lunch break, but I said I would do a chat. You know how it is. Yep. Yep.

[Margaret Cho]

Mm.

[Unknown]

Gary over here getting on our nerves. He sure is. Chad. He over there in the corner. Anyways, girl, what's the word of the day? Cause Gary lazy ass out there cheating on his wife again. Yep, you said it. Mm. Like, what was saying?

[Margaret Cho]

I mean, I think that's. It is like that. It's just like. Like, you know, being in the dailiness of it, like using the sort of, like, circumstance of the moment, charming somebody who you're, you know, working with, or you're using the jargon of that workplace already. You know, it's all the stuff, like, so many different things coming into play. But I love it. I love it for her.

[Unknown]

Yeah. She's like, I done so many deposits today, child. My hand is cramping, but I'll do this one more, child. I'm gonna leave early today, okay? Cause Jimmy. Yeah, Jimmy and Tina got baseball, so I'm gonna have to leave early anyway. So what's that CO word? Like, I thought, no, she.

[Margaret Cho]

So good.

[Unknown]

So she even got one bank to send her grandmother $5,000, but her grandmother assumed it was a bank error and didn't touch the money. That's. See, that's a civil rights grandmother.

[Margaret Cho]

Yeah, yeah.

[Unknown]

She said, y'all not gonna get me.

[Margaret Cho]

No, see, I would never be that. I would never be that principled. I can't. I couldn't.

[Unknown]

I'm like, you made an error. I thought I. I thought I made that money. Y'all need to fix that on your own. But they actually can prosecute you if you spend into your account as a bank error, which I think is because, like, that's it. Sound like a blessing to me.

[Margaret Cho]

It is.

[Unknown]

Like, is this the money insured? Call the FDA, the D& the I.

[Margaret Cho]

And the C. Yeah, you should be able to keep that money, right?

[Unknown]

Don't call me. Call the fdic. Okay? Because this is my money now. But the grandmother, she was like, I marched with Dr. Kang. Y'all not gonna get me. No, no, no. So next, Tanya decided to try getting inside access to bank servers. And so let's listen to her telling the Times radio how she conned a bank into giving her one of their computers. Well, no, they didn't send me the computer. I went and picked it up. Okay. I called and pretended I was at another branch, and our computer broke down, and I needed a computer, and they believed I was from the other branch. And I went there. She had it waiting for me downstairs in the basement. And she let security know that I was coming. And I asked a friend to accompany me. And we went down to the bank, and we picked up the computer, we pushed it out on a cart, put it in the car, and brought it to my house.

[Margaret Cho]

I mean, again, I mean, was that not a single bit of concern that you were, you know, pretending to be someone else? You were committing fraud. You were impersonating a staff, a member of staff, to the point where someone in a bank just willingly handed over a computer. Was there. Was there ever a flash of. Of conscience, I suppose I'm asking.

[Unknown]

Conscience? No, I know that's right. Conscious. For the banks.

[Margaret Cho]

I know. For the banks.

[Unknown]

Think about the baby banks. Please, please, please. Because the banks are always thinking about me. Conscious.

[Margaret Cho]

I know. She's so confident. It's like the confidence thing.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Margaret Cho]

Like, when you are able to be that confident in your own story, then you can get other people to be confident in it as well.

[Unknown]

And just hearing her speak, I get an even better picture of how she was doing this, because she's eloquent. Her cadence is very calm. It seems like she's very careful with her words. And she did the scammer thing of create the facade even further by she didn't come unaccompanied Right. It's like both of us are coming from this branch. Yeah, I don't know anybody at this branch. And yeah, they rolled it out on a cart. They weren't in any rush. Loaded it into the car very slowly. Probably signed off on some documents with some fake name. And we're like, thank you so much. This is, yeah, fantastic.

[Margaret Cho]

I love it. She's. She's amazing. She's amazing.

[Unknown]

She's amazing. I am in awe. I'm a fan. So with access to a bank's computer, her more virtuous Robin Hood days became a thing of the past. Instead of sending money to bank accounts of real people in need, she began sending money to bank accounts she opened under fake names. Tanya then hired a team of runners to withdraw the cash from accounts in person. At first, Tonya knew these people personally, but as her operation grew, she began to hire runners through intermediaries. So then she was like, I gotta keep my hands clean. I'll never touch dope.

[Margaret Cho]

That's smart. That's really smart.

[Unknown]

So she's running a crime syndicate at this point.

[Margaret Cho]

Yeah, yeah.

[Unknown]

And unfortunately, one of her runners got detained by the cops and ratted out Tonya to try to get out of trouble. Now that's the thing about runners is, like, they're lower level. They're not getting paid as much. And I don't think Tonya's doing murder. So they don't have any fear on the side of turning Tonya in.

[Margaret Cho]

But that's also like, where you just got too big for your riches in a sense. Like, you got, like, very way too confident in your own story and that you could just keep on growing. I mean, it was working until then, but that, like, if she had maybe kept it to a smaller level, but she wouldn't have made as much money.

[Unknown]

But I'm also like, I don't think you need to be the CEO of fraud. I think fraud is a small business and that's where people get messed up. Up.

[Margaret Cho]

Yeah, yeah, that's right. That's right.

[Unknown]

Fraud should never be, you know, I mean, it's already on the stock market. I mean, look at our healthcare system. But fraud should never be like a corporate level thing.

[Margaret Cho]

Yeah, it's gone too far. It's already gone too far.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

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[Unknown]

It out.

[Lacey Mosley]

For the place. You've put down roots. Trust. Amica Home Insurance. Amica empathy is our best policy.

[Unknown]

And fraud. So two white male cops and two white male FBI agents brought Tanya in for interrogation. They told Tanya they knew she couldn't actually be the mastermind of a crime this smart, and they wanted to find out who was in charge. One agent said, this is no small time heist. This guy is a genius.

[Margaret Cho]

See, that's. So. That makes me mad. But also, it works in her favor because now she's just gotta, like, pretend that she's working on a guy and, like, that he gets away.

[Unknown]

Racism is sexism for the win.

[Margaret Cho]

Yeah. She's gonna use that to her advantage because she's gonna turn state's evidence on him on a reduced sentence. Or to go. To be acquitted. To go free. That's what I'm hoping.

[Unknown]

Right. That's what I'm hoping, too. I hope she was like, y'all are absolutely right. I hope she put on the best, like, slave what she had. Like, give me 12 years.

[Margaret Cho]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Yalls is absolutely right. I was forced to do this by a very smart white man with a full head of hair. He did this to me and my family. Like, I don't feel like I would have been.

[Margaret Cho]

I hope.

[Unknown]

I would. Like, he got blue eyes. His name was Chad. Chadderson Washington iii.

[Margaret Cho]

Yes, yes.

[Unknown]

And he was so tall, above, averagely tall of a white man. Like, please, like, play into it. Play into their.

[Margaret Cho]

I wish. I hope, I hope, I hope she did it.

[Unknown]

But listen, that made Tanya mad. So mad that she confessed, telling them, I am in charge. You'd think this was the end of the road for Tonya, right? Because she was like, I did this. Okay. This is black women in stem. Black women in criminal activities. Okay.

[Margaret Cho]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

And she says, I'm in charge, Right? And you'd think like, okay, lock her up. She confessed, but the FBI didn't believe her.

[Margaret Cho]

Oh, no. Oh, wow.

[Unknown]

They assumed she was lying to protect that very tall white man. Chad. Chad, yeah. Who was really in charge, right? So they let her go.

[Margaret Cho]

Good for her. Good for her.

[Unknown]

Queen shit. Now, listen, Tonya, why you let your ego get the best of you? You should have just been like, yeah, I've never seen him before, though. It's like, have y'all seen that movie Charlie's Angels, he just calls me on the telephone and tells me to do crime.

[Margaret Cho]

That's right. So good. Please.

[Unknown]

So according to Tanya, the FBI's response inspired her to up her game.

[Margaret Cho]

Oh.

[Unknown]

In her book, she wrote, that's when everything changed for me. They hit my soul. I grew up in this household where I was told I could be anything I wanted to be, including a criminal. And for someone to tell you that you couldn't be who you are because of the color of your skin. Come on and speak on it, Tanya. I realized I had to fight for other women, not just for me. I said to myself, I'm gonna show them exactly what black women can do. I know. That's right. And we can do crime and will.

[Margaret Cho]

That's right. Yes.

[Unknown]

I mean, you know, some would argue that. That when they say you can be anything you want to be, that it shouldn't be, like, low key, a bank robber. But I argue, no. I agree. Yes. Included. Included. Yeah, if that's what you want.

[Margaret Cho]

Well, it takes a lot of skill. It takes a lot of skill. It takes a lot of planning. It takes a lot of forethought and, you know, a lot of moxie, a lot of confidence.

[Unknown]

They didn't even search her house. The F, the B, and the. I chose racism so hard. I'm sure they were busy putting crack into black neighborhoods or something, but they chose racism so hard that they didn't even search this woman's house. They would have found a bank computer.

[Margaret Cho]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Unknown]

I love her. So after her interrogation, Tanya began living a life of luxury. Okay, see, that's what I'm talking about. Live that soft life with the money she stole. She bought cars, including a Rolls Royce, and expensive jewels. She even bought a $50,000 diamond ring, which the jewel hesitated to hand over to the black man who was working for her. They don't even want to take our money.

[Margaret Cho]

That's crazy.

[Unknown]

Like, you can come in with money and people. I've experienced this on Rodeo, and, like, I'll go in to a store where I'm picking up jewelry that I've. Or I'm just getting it cleaned at Cartier or something, and they're, like, you know, like, hesitant or, like. Or they start asking you what you do for a living, and then I just start to troll. I'm like, I'm a. I work in insurance. I work at accounts payable. Like, I tell them anything. Cause I'm like, what? It happens to me on airplanes in first class. People assume I'm with whoever. Whatever rapper is closest to me. It's happened multiple times. I was on the airplane, and they were like, I was trying to get my food. Cause I took a little nap. And of course, you know, on a red eye, if you take a nap, baby, they're not giving you anything. Cause the red eye, they're. They're chilling.

[Margaret Cho]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

And I was like, oh, I took a little nap. Can I get my food? And they're like, oh, my God, we're so sorry. Are you Young Jeezy's girlfriend? And I was like, no. He was sitting behind me. And they're like, oh, well, what do you do? I was like, accounts payable. Like, what the. Enough to be here. Mind your business.

[Margaret Cho]

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. That's so insane.

[Unknown]

I was at Sony, and I had a meeting with Seth Rogen's company. This was years ago. And I was getting a. They were like, oh, we're taking everybody to the meeting. And Kid Cudi was in the waiting room with me too, with his entourage. And they were like, oh, hey, we're taking everybody. So I'm thinking they're taking me to the separate place. Cause I'm obviously not going where Kid Cudi's going. And they were like, oh, no, you can follow this way. And I was like, oh, I'm not. I'm not with him. Oh, oh, okay. Like, they don't assume black people can have anything. And then they're like, if you do have it, where did you get it? And how do we stop that?

[Margaret Cho]

Yeah, that's the word. That's so disgusting, Truly.

[Unknown]

But I love that she was thriving. So in 1985, Tanya was arrested. Okay. For wire fraud. At her trial, she argued with what sounded like an absurd defense. She said that there was no way for prosecutors to prove that she had committed the crimes because it could have been her fugitive twin sister, Taryn. And there was no way to tell the two apart on the phone. Her defense worked, and Tonya was acquitted.

[Margaret Cho]

Wow.

[Unknown]

So she did use the twin thing. I said, she did.

[Margaret Cho]

Finally. Finally.

[Unknown]

Twin, where have you been?

[Margaret Cho]

Where have you been? Nobody knows you Knows me like you.

[Unknown]

Do Nobody gets me acquitted quite like you yes, I'm living. So two years later, Tanya got caught again when a runner got cold feet while withdrawing $160,000 at a Caesar's palace casino in Las Vegas. The runner told casino staff that a girl named Tanya had asked him to pick up the money. Now, Tanya, why are you still using your real name? We gotta get some aliases, baby girl. Yeah, your ego's too strong. You want people to know it's Tanya. Like, it's giving Game of Thrones. Like, tell her it was me. Tanya, we don't gotta know it's you. Why do you need so much credit? She was like, no, I'm a criminal icon.

[Margaret Cho]

Yes.

[Unknown]

She was like, I want my flowers.

[Margaret Cho]

She is, though.

[Unknown]

She's like, I want awards. We are giving you our award today, Tanya. We're giving you your award as a criminal icon.

[Margaret Cho]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

So I understand the runner getting nervous at Caesar's palace because casinos are not on the up and up. And if you start winning too much best believe, baby, those dealers will start changing faster. People will start walking away around the drink. Girlies are going to try to push drinks on you real fast. And then eventually, like, the. The men in the cheap suits will start hovering. So if you're trying to pull out 160k. Oh, the mob is looking.

[Margaret Cho]

Yeah, Yeah. I mean, it's like, already. They're already scamming everybody. Casinos are such a scam. So they're, like, already on the alert for people scamming them.

[Unknown]

Yeah, because they're like, we're robbers, so.

[Margaret Cho]

Yeah. So we should know.

[Unknown]

We know when people robbing. That's what we do.

[Margaret Cho]

Exactly. That's what we do.

[Unknown]

They were like, twin. So. So this time, she and her sister now age 26. These women are the Forbes 30 under 30. And we know the Forbes 30 under 30 took prison pipeline is strong.

[Margaret Cho]

It's already a scam. Yes.

[Unknown]

Look it up, y'all. Forbes 30 under 30 and see how many of them have gone to prison.

[Margaret Cho]

So many.

[Unknown]

So many. So they're 26. They were both found guilty. They said, you know what, sister, sister, we're gonna put y'all. Both of y'all asses in jail.

[Margaret Cho]

Sister, sister, sister.

[Unknown]

Okay, this way we don't have to worry. So, fun fact. The second trial featured the first use in a federal court of a voice identification expert who listened to secretly taped conversations and testified that both Tanya and Taryn had been making the fraudulent calls. Now, here's what I want to say about a voice identification expert. That sound like some bullshit to me. And I think we need a retrial. Handwriting experts, anything that's just like. Like brazen like that. How do you become an expert in that?

[Margaret Cho]

You don't know. They don't know. That's just bullshit.

[Unknown]

Yeah, you hear better than us.

[Margaret Cho]

That's get out of my face.

[Unknown]

That's something white people invented so they could put some people in jail. They said we can't get her. Y'all come. What? What? Can we come up? A voice, a voice expert. Call Craig down at Southwest the Bell and see if he want to be an expert. Cuz he been on the phone for 10 years, so he probably know, like, what. How do you get good at that? That. Be serious.

[Margaret Cho]

That's not. That's not a thing. It's not real.

[Unknown]

It's not real at all. Okay. If that's real, Seth McFarland could be out here getting away with all types of crimes. Okay. Be serious. So Tanya was sentenced to 24 years in prison for defrauding banks in 11 states. Look at. Come on, girl.

[Margaret Cho]

Oh, wow.

[Unknown]

That's her in prison.

[Margaret Cho]

She's so cute.

[Unknown]

She's so cute. And I love that she was still cute in prison. She said, you know, I had to do it to him. And I love that prison got a step and repeat with a little background.

[Margaret Cho]

Yeah, that's cute.

[Unknown]

That's sweet. Okay, because listen, when people are incarcerated, there's still people. And I hate how us as a society treat people who are in prison like they are slaves. One, like working for slave wages and like they're not human beings who don't have loved ones in real lives and who don't deserve a modicum of joy. Now, there's some people who need to be under the jail getting BBB every day for the. That they did. But, you know, Tanya was just out here robbing a little, doing a little robbery. Just like a taste a scos.

[Margaret Cho]

Not a lot. Not a lot lot, not enough. Not enough 20 mil.

[Unknown]

But you know, who's counting?

[Margaret Cho]

Whatever.

[Unknown]

And you know, some of that went out to payroll for the runners. Some of that went family and friends. Rolls Royce got a cut. Yeah, they not making Rolls Royce get her money back.

[Margaret Cho]

She was so smart about it too. It's like, why can't. Why she should be applauded for that, which I think she is now. But that's good.

[Unknown]

Honestly, she should have been an asset. If someone is so good at this, this is the type of person you don't put in jail. You don't put a great mind like this in prison. You hire them for the FBI because clearly y'all dumb masses are dumb.

[Margaret Cho]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

So even though Tanya was sentenced to 24 years, she only served.

[Margaret Cho]

Guess I want to say five years.

[Unknown]

Two.

[Margaret Cho]

Good for her. Yes, good for her.

[Unknown]

Not because she was released early, but because one day she dressed up as a lawyer and simply walked out.

[Margaret Cho]

Good.

[Unknown]

See?

[Margaret Cho]

Oh, what a hero. He just left.

[Unknown]

Iconic. She Said I'm done with jail. This was cute. Had a great time. Took some great photos. I've had enough. I'm gonna release myself on my own recognizance. Okay.

[Margaret Cho]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

So how did she pull off her vanishing act? An accomplice on the outside got her a briefcase, heels, makeup up, a suit, and glasses. She ran to the admin building after the usual 4pm prisoner count where she got changed. So she was accounted for that day. With her hair up and glasses on, she strolled up to the exit gate and waved to the guard. Believing her disguise, he lifted the gate and she walked out. So I don't know if the guard believed her disguise or he with Tanya.

[Margaret Cho]

Maybe a little bit of both. Who knows?

[Unknown]

Or maybe the guard half face blindness or thought all black women look alike. I don't know. But some glasses and a suit worked for her.

[Margaret Cho]

It worked for her. I'm so glad.

[Unknown]

So Tanya enjoyed life on the outside for nine months before being recaptured. This time, she stayed incarcerated until her actual release date in 1999. She was partying like it was 1999. Prince wrote that for her. What if Prince wrote party like it's 1999 for Tanya because she was getting out of prison?

[Margaret Cho]

That would be great. I. I think about that. I'm. I'm reframing that in my mind. That's why she wrote it. I. I think that's for her.

[Unknown]

I think so.

[Margaret Cho]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

So now, at age 64, Tanya lives a quiet suburban life in Los Angeles. In Los Angeles.

[Margaret Cho]

Oh, she's right here.

[Unknown]

Tanya, where you at, girl? I want to go to your house. It looks nice.

[Margaret Cho]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

She used the same phone number research tactics from her early scamming days to secure a literary agent for her recent memoir. Some have suggested Tanya could be exaggerating the scale of her crimes to inflate book sales. But that's exactly what you'd expect from a true scammer, her former attorney, Barry Voss said. Could she do this to sell her book? Yeah, but did she make a lot of money? Yeah. Millions.

[Margaret Cho]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Y'all need to stop playing on my girl Tanya's name. She told y'all she confessed to the FBI. She was so mad that y'all thought she didn't do this. And I'm gonna say her book name again. It's called Never saw me Coming. Y'all pick that up. Because I want to see everything. Where? The comings and goings.

[Margaret Cho]

Yeah. I love her. I mean, I think this is, like, a great. She's a hero. I. I love that. She got to do this. And I love that she wrote a book about it. Yes.

[Unknown]

And I love that she, you know, she did her bid. I don't love that. But that she got out in time because she was so young when she went in, that she still gets to live a life.

[Margaret Cho]

Right. Exactly.

[Unknown]

Like they didn't scam her out of all of her livelihood, which I really appreciate because Tanya's an icon and she needs to be outside.

[Margaret Cho]

She needs. Yes, that's right.

[Unknown]

Wow. So I'm pretty sure on where you stand then, which is that we're both like, Tanya.

[Margaret Cho]

I'm a fan. I want to go to her workshop, if she has one. I think it would be great to spend a weekend of building community with her. I think she's a genius.

[Unknown]

Building community. Margaret, if I find out you running this workshop for Tanya, this special guest, Tanya Smith, that would be.

[Margaret Cho]

So it. Wouldn't that be the best weekend? We could have, like, gift baskets with, you know, and then we have to.

[Unknown]

Be playing lucky gifts. We have to have the DJ on the ones that she's playing Lucky gift with the cd. Like.

[Margaret Cho]

Yeah, you know, vinyl.

[Unknown]

We got vinyl. Yes.

[Margaret Cho]

And we, you know, we could have a brunch. It would be really good.

[Unknown]

We definitely have to have a brunch. And I need to know how she's keeping her plants so healthy. So I would love, like, a botany kind of course. Like, I feel like it could be an all day intensive workshop with lots of different things. You could do yoga, you know, everything. I want to know how to.

[Margaret Cho]

I want. I want her to give a guided meditation with her voice, like her famous voice guiding us through all of these scams and, like, making so much money along the way. That would be so genius.

[Unknown]

Yes. Breathe in, robbery, Exhale, fraud. Yes.

[Margaret Cho]

That's so good.

[Unknown]

We need Margaret. That brings us to our last segment of the show. We have not gotten to this in a little while, so I know the listeners are really going to appreciate this episode. We're going to keep it a little brief, but we are going to do a listener letter. As always, y'all snitch on your friends, family, and your enemies at scam [e-mail]. just make sure your scam is retired because we don't want to.

[Margaret Cho]

What?

[Unknown]

Yes. Fuck up your bag. Okay. Like, they try to fuck up Tanya's. She kept getting it back and I love that for her. So this person actually did put their pronouns. So, Margaret, if you could just give me he, him, his sounding fake name.

[Margaret Cho]

Derek. Who the dog. From somebody else's house.

[Unknown]

Derek. Love it. Love it. So Derek, Derek says I have two scams. Mine. I always like to have the newest phone and the coolest phone. But was never rich. In college and law school my scam was harmless, I think in parentheses. But I bought broken phones on ebay for cheap, basically free. And then it says AT and T had a little known warranty exchange program where you call a number and give them the ESN and they replace the phone for free if it's new enough to be under warranty. I got the newest hottest phones. And since I live in a city that has the main shipping hub for a large logistics company, my new phone sometimes showed up the same day. I then sold the new phones online for profit after I was tired of it or wanted to. New phone. I mean that's.

[Margaret Cho]

I mean you know what harmless like harmless Victimless crime. Victimless crime.

[Unknown]

I'm into it. So now I like it. Now Derek is snitching on his cousin. Okay, did say friends, family, yourself and your enemies.

[Margaret Cho]

Right.

[Unknown]

So Derek says my cousin. My cousin is Sl. Was a drug dealer. So how you is. And SL was.

[Margaret Cho]

I think he was. Is. Is still. He used to be and is still now.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Margaret Cho]

Or he. He's been doing it for.

[Unknown]

So couldn't we just go with is?

[Margaret Cho]

Yeah, I think so.

[Unknown]

Cuz is. Slash was. Was like he's not but he is.

[Margaret Cho]

Uh huh.

[Unknown]

He was. But he. He continues to be.

[Margaret Cho]

He was but he still is. Yeah.

[Unknown]

I love it. So my cousin is. Slash was a drug dealer. Part of his hustle however was to use self checkout at a Walmart to purchase big ticket items then return them for. Gotta do a call back here to you Margot with your cat gift cards. He was using self checkout at the Walmart to purchase big ticket items then return them for Walmart gift cards.

[Margaret Cho]

Yeah, it's it. Those gift cards are really. They should be. They who? Nobody ever gives them for gifts.

[Unknown]

I do.

[Margaret Cho]

Nobody ever gets. Oh you do? That's good for wrap gifts.

[Unknown]

Anybody who touches me, like my hair, my makeup people, my costume people. Like I'll give them $5 a day on a. A gift card.

[Margaret Cho]

That's nice. That's a nice thing.

[Unknown]

Because I don't know what they want but it'll be like, you know, it'll be like a. One of those credit card gift cards. So you could use it anywhere. Yeah, yeah. Because like cash feels weird and you know. Gift card, you know.

[Margaret Cho]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

So I use them not for crime. Am I the only one Using gift cards not for crime. Is that what's happening?

[Margaret Cho]

I don't know. Because they're so, they're so frequently used for crime, it seems like that's. I've never, I've never received a gift card, so I guess, I don't know.

[Unknown]

I feel, I feel like anybody buying a Darden gift card can't be using that for crime. Like that shit is for like Red Lobster and like, you know, Olive Garden.

[Margaret Cho]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Is the lobster still open? I feel like they gonna close the lobster.

[Margaret Cho]

I think they're, they're like slowly starting to close them out.

[Unknown]

That's so sad.

[Margaret Cho]

That's such a good place.

[Unknown]

The cheddar bay biscuit was so delicious. So delicious. What happened to them?

[Margaret Cho]

I don't know. I think that they, people were eating too much shrimp or the all you can eat shrimp.

[Unknown]

Oh, you know, in America you really can't do all you can eat like that.

[Margaret Cho]

No, you can't take advantage of it like that.

[Unknown]

It's not Europe. Like in Europe you say all you can eat. They'd be like, one plate, please.

[Margaret Cho]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

In America they're like, we're taking this home. We're putting shrimp in our pockets. Like we have a problem. So he was, you know, making these purchases of the big ticket items and then purchasing these Walmart gift cards. He would also recruit younger kids and teens as well as all family members to also return things for Walmart Gift cards. Cards. The cards were upwards of $1,000 each and he would then sell them to people for $400 cash. I passed on each offer to join the syndicate, but it seemed like a good idea on the brokest days anyway. He's since been banned from every Walmart in America after they uncovered the scam. Who knew they could do that? Being banned from every Walmart in America is crazy.

[Margaret Cho]

I, I think that would probably be like, very debilitating for, for if you live in like a, an area where that's the only store around.

[Unknown]

I haven't been to a Walmart in years. They don't have them in la.

[Margaret Cho]

No.

[Unknown]

Jessica, one of our producers says that there is one in Burbank now.

[Margaret Cho]

Oh, okay.

[Unknown]

I don't want Walmarts here. I don't, I don't know if I need them.

[Margaret Cho]

I don't either, but maybe we do.

[Unknown]

Maybe we do because Target lost they damn mind.

[Margaret Cho]

I almost never go to Target either. So I don't know. Like, it's, I think it's shady when a store has everything.

[Unknown]

Target sponsor the show. I'm Gonna to go back to Target.

[Margaret Cho]

They.

[Unknown]

They stopped going because everything was $5 million. Every time you got to the register, it was like playing the game of roulette. Like, I came in for so much space.

[Margaret Cho]

I only wanted one thing, and then I have so much stuff. So I think it's shady because they just, like, make you want to buy everything, and I think that's not good.

[Unknown]

It's so bright in there. Everything is so colorful. And they actually do train their staff to be quiet. So you're kind of alone with your thoughts. Thoughts. And then your thoughts. The intrusive buying thoughts are like, you need three diffusers.

[Margaret Cho]

Like, yes.

[Unknown]

Darkest positive show. But that brings us to the end of a fantastic episode. Margaret, thank you so much for being here. I'm really. Oh, this is such a treat.

[Margaret Cho]

Such a treat. Thank you. I'm so excited. I love you. This is great.

[Unknown]

Yes. I love you too. And we always ask at the end of the podcast, where would you like to be found? Anything you want to plug? Places that people can find you that you want them to find you? All of that.

[Margaret Cho]

Yes. Stream my. My single Lucky gift everywhere. And the album's out on Valentine's Day. People can find tickets in my show [e-mail] and I'm on Instagram at Margaret underscore Cho. And I'm now on Blue Sky Margaret show at bluesky.

[Unknown]

Yes. Get into Margaret choir. She's icon, legend. The moment, all the moments. So this was such a huge, huge day on the podcast for us. And thank you. If you want to watch me on in, come on. It's January. Y'all gotta just watch and listen to me all month. I'm so sorry, but this my month. I don't know. I'm gonna take January. I sing a song about January. Just the whole month of January. Nobody's singing about January. You know, they singing about December. Did you love me in December? I could do something with January, I think. January 2nd going through Dutch on Fox. January 15th, scam goddess on Freeform. Next day on hulu on the 16th. You got the visuals. I gave them to you. Oh, God. I got to keep going. Scam Goddess book available everywhere in stores. For those of you international looking for a bookstore, I will let you know when we start rolling that out. I promise. I have to end this podcast. Join me, Margaret Webb. Let's leave some scam resolutions. I'm scam illusions.

[Margaret Cho]

Never, never try to. If any anybody tries to get you to go buy gift cards in the middle of the night, say no no.

[Unknown]

Even in the middle of the day.

[Margaret Cho]

Don't in the anytime.

[Unknown]

Only buy gift cards when you want to. Send your friends to Red Lobster.

[Margaret Cho]

That's right.

[Unknown]

Okay. Before it closes.

[Margaret Cho]

That's right.

[Unknown]

I'm going to say, don't scam yourself out of your dreams.

[Margaret Cho]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Stop waiting for tomorrow. I know we always do New Year's resolutions, but I say a resolution any time of the year. I had a resolution on December 8th. You can have them whenever you want. So it doesn't just have to be New Year's Eve, but you can have whatever you want. Don't wait. We don't know how much time we have, guys. I would also say, get out there and get yours. Okay? Ask for that raise. If anybody tries to get you to do more work and they're not giving you more money, just be like, hey, that was. I would love to do more work. When y'all get that money, call me. Scam your way to your dreams, and y'all be like, tanya, be a confidence artist. Okay. You may not feel like you belong where you are, but if you pretend long enough, trust me, it'll sink in. Okay? You can be anything you want, including a criminal.

[Margaret Cho]

That's right. Beautiful.

[Unknown]

Yes. So, happy Scam New Year. Happy. What did we say it was like? Auld lang syne.

[Margaret Cho]

May all acquaintance be forgotten and never brought to mind. And I don't know any of the other words.

[Unknown]

All acquittals be brought.

[Margaret Cho]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

All right, congregation, happy New Year. See ya. Scam Goddess. This has been an Earwolf production in association with Team Coco. Scam Goddess stars and is host, me, Lacey Mosley, AKA Scam Goddess. Our producer is Scott Sonny, and our audio engineer is Rich Garcia. Research for the show is done by Kate Doyle. Stay scheming.

[Lacey Mosley]

Netcredit is here to say yes to a personal loan or line of credit. When other lenders say no, apply in minutes and get a decision as soon as the same day. If approved, applications are typically funded the next business day or sooner. Loans offered by NetCredit or lending partner banks and serviced by Netcredit. Applications subject to review and approval. Learn [e-mail] partners. NetCredit credit to the people. Every day, our world gets a little more connected, but a little further apart. But then there are moments that remind us to be more human.

[Unknown]

Thank you for calling Amica Insurance.

[Margaret Cho]

Hey, I was just in an accident.

[Unknown]

Don't worry, we'll get you taken care of.

[Lacey Mosley]

At Amica, we understand that looking out for each other isn't new or groundbreaking. It's human amica. Empathy is our best policy.