The Confederate Counterfeiter with Ashley Nicole Black

Summary

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Scam Goddess: "The Confederate Counterfeiter" with Ashley Nicole Black

Air Date: January 5, 2021
Host: Laci Mosley
Guest: Ashley Nicole Black

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Episode Overview

In this lively and hilarious episode of Scam Goddess, Laci Mosley welcomes comedian and writer Ashley Nicole Black ("A Black Lady Sketch Show," "Full Frontal with Samantha Bee") for an uproarious dive into scammers past and present. The episode blends personal scam experiences, listener stories, and an in-depth look at Samuel Curtis Upham, the notorious "Confederate Counterfeiter" whose fake Confederate money helped tank the Southern economy during the Civil War. Throughout, Laci and Ashley riff on everything from workplace dynamics to race, fraud, and the modern phenomenon of clout-hacking on social media.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Personal Scams, Frauds, and Working in Fraud Prevention

[03:26 – 09:18]

• Ashley shares she’s never been scammed but previously worked in fraud prevention, investigating claims for suspicious credit card activity.
• Most cases involved women calling about "weird charges"—often tracing back to relatives or romantic partners.
  • “Her man was cheating on her and using her credit card to take the other woman out.” – Ashley Nicole Black [04:15]
• Ashley was promoted from customer service to fraud prevention, having little patience for small talk but excelling at efficient call handling.
  • “You reward speed, I will give you fast phone calls, but what I’m not going to do is form a relationship with a customer.” – Ashley [05:38]
• Discussion of how scam detection often includes some basic online sleuthing—especially back when Facebook accounts were public.

2. Listener Letter: "The Cancer Jar Scam"

[09:19 – 18:33]

• Laci reads a listener email about running a small art gallery where an older artist collected "cancer donations” but turned out to be pocketing proceeds for herself.
• Ethical debate: Does being a real cancer survivor justify framing personal fundraising as a charitable cause?
  • “That is still unethical!” – Ashley Nicole Black [16:03]
• Both agree: The “donation jar” ruse is ethically shaky, even if GoFundMe didn’t yet exist, but acknowledge that lack of healthcare access shapes these kinds of scams.

3. Historic Hoodwinks: Samuel Curtis Upham, the Confederate Counterfeiter

[18:34 – 41:44]

The Setup

• Laci introduces Samuel Curtis Upham, who printed fake Confederate currency during the Civil War—parodying and undermining the South.
• Both Laci and Ashley revel in the idea of scamming racists/slave-owners, noting the historical irony and humor.
  • “Wait, he was making fake Confederate money? … Off top, I’m here for this.” – Ashley [19:45]
• Insight on the Confederacy: Many who fought for the South didn’t even own slaves, fighting for "the slim possibility of one day doing so.” [20:13]

The Scam

• Upham bought plate prints of Confederate bills from newspapers, mass-producing realistic fake currency.
• Ostensibly sold as “souvenirs” (marked “facsimile Confederate note”), but easily repurposed as real currency by trimming the identifying text.
• “He was selling it, quote-unquote, as merch. That’s hilarious.” – Ashley [33:41]

The Fallout

• Confederate leadership raged, criminalizing counterfeiting and putting a bounty on Upham’s head.
• Upham’s efforts injected millions in fake money into the Southern economy—a key contributor to Confederate inflation and economic collapse.
  • “Upham had done more damage to the Confederacy than General McClellan’s army had.” – Quoted by Mississippi senator Henry Foote [40:42]

Movie Pitch & Cultural Impact

• Ashley advocates for a movie about Upham: “I don’t often advocate for movies about white people, but we need this movie. This is a good movie.” [41:36]
• Joke about how Black actors only win Oscars in slave movies, and the dilemma of telling such stories.

4. Scamming in the Digital Age: Clout and Fake Fame

[43:56 – 55:36]

Clout Hackers and Fake Instagram Live App

• Discussion about Ethan Keiser, a TikToker who built an app that simulates having thousands of live viewers and comments—used to gain VIP club access and social perks.
  • “He made this app where you could get on—it basically was like Facebook, Instagram Live, except for it makes you look like you have thousands of viewers watching and commenting.” – Laci [52:25]
• The scam plays on urgency and celebrity culture: club hosts let him in for “exposure.”
• Both hosts note: This only works for certain people. “If a Black person couldn’t do it, it’s not a smart scam.” – Ashley [49:13]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Ashley (on being promoted out of customer service):
  “You could enjoy this. Like, this is my dream job. I love doing this. I love getting to connect with people. And I was like, sir, I don't know what to tell you. This is never gonna be my dream. I am here to answer the phone as many times as possible, get a paycheck and a prize at the end of the week.” [05:38]
• Laci (on Black representation in comedy institutions):
  “When you're in a wave of Black popularity, make as much money as you can, because the wave will go out, y'all.” [13:14]
• Ashley (on the absurdity of Confederate grievances):
  “But you, sir, are a scoundrel.” [38:12]
• Laci (on buying followers):
  “Because that’s the thing, people have been buying followers, like, since Methuselah.” [54:22]
• On Oscar chances:
  “All you have to do is have terrible hair in a slave movie, and the Oscar is yours.” – Ashley [42:13]

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Important Timestamps

• Fraud Prevention Stories: 03:26 – 09:18
• Listener Letter: "Cancer Jar Scam": 09:19 – 18:33
• Samuel Upham / Confederate Counterfeiter: 18:34 – 41:44
• Movie Pitch Segment: 41:44 – 43:01
• Clout & Fake IG Scams: 43:56 – 55:36

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Tone and Banter

The episode is uproarious, irreverent, and sharp, balancing historical insight and social commentary with smart, rapid-fire comedy. Laci and Ashley’s chemistry makes for honest, memorable storytelling in a safe, laughter-filled space for discussing serious topics like racism, fraud, and economic exploitation.

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Final Thoughts & Where to Find the Guest

• Ashley Nicole Black:
  • Twitter: @ashleyn1cole
  • “Don’t look at n2, n3, n4, or n5—those are all scammers pretending to be me.” [58:14]
• Laci Mosley:
  • IG/Twitter: @divalaci

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Signature Sign-off:

Laci: "Congregation, stay schemin'."

Transcript

[Laci Mosley]

Scams C. Robbery and fraud.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

Scam.

[Laci Mosley]

Cause robbery and fraud. Scam Goddess. What's poppin, Congregation? It's your girl, Lacey Mosley, AKA Scam Goddess. Do y' all like this ASMRS that I'm giving y'? All? Are y' all liking this? Like, would y' all pay me to eat shrimps on YouTube? Let me know. As always, I'm always super. What say with me? Yes. Excited for our guest. And today I'm really excited. This is like, I met her and I was like, I'm gonna make her be friends with me instantly. She is a talented American writer. Yes. I'm on her Wikipedia. You've seen her in the black lady sketch show. You've seen her full frontal with Samantha Bee. We have the queen, the incomparable, the Miss Ashley Nicole Black. Three names. That's how you know she's might. She might be a scammer.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

I knew you were on Wikipedia because only Wikipedia describes black people as Americans, and I'm here for it.

[Laci Mosley]

Lizzie, you know how you be having those random, like, celebrity roundup, like Internet places or something, like, where it's like, this is the celebrity and then this is their stats? Well, like, somebody sent me. I think it's made by bots. Somebody sent me one on Twitter and it was like, Lacey Mosley of the Caucasian ethnicity. She is from America. And it goes for. I was like, what? And they had a picture of our black ads, but they were like, she's definitely white. And I was like, ooh, yes. So I screenshot it and I use it from time to time.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

Well, there's, you know, there's those sites that say what your net worth is. And sometimes people are mad at you at the Internet. They'll be like, you're worth $7 million and you're blah, blah, blah. And literally, if you refresh the website, it'll say a different amount of money. I don't know how people don't know that these websites are a whole.

[Laci Mosley]

Yeah, see, that's a weird part of working in TV that I don't think I'll ever be comfortable with. And I'm gonna see how long I can hide all my assets. Cuz I hate that. They'll be like, Brad Pitt doing a new movie for 38 mil. I'm like, don't tell. You go get me robbed.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

Now Brad Pitt's family is calling him, asking to borrow money.

[Laci Mosley]

They're like, hey, yo, Brad. Congratulations on your many successes. It's me, Tommy Pitt. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

I have a business opportunity For.

[Laci Mosley]

And then you get in trouble, too, with, like, that's how we got. I keep it to Virgil's. When Virgil Abloh's rich ass donated. He donated $50 to a black Lives Matter cause. And everybody was like, virgil to public.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

Anonymous is on there. You can choose Anonymous when you donate to anything, right?

[Laci Mosley]

And that's what you should do if you're gonna give $50. Like, you definitely shouldn't post. You should not tell people. That's what Meek Mill just got in trouble for on Twitter, too. He was. There were some little beautiful, little black children on the corner slanging waters, scheming. And they were like, oh, will you buy this water for a dollar? And then they realized, this is Meek Mill. So they're like, oh, okay, we about to get this. Like, all right. And Mig was like, Here's $20. Kids. Don't spend it all in one place. There was, like, eight of them, and we're in a global pandemic. He's in a $400,000 car. The Internet dragged him.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

Yeah, he should have just went to Rite Aid and bought some water.

[Laci Mosley]

He really thought he was doing something with that 20. And the Internet girls were like, we hate it. So wait, do you have a relationship with scams? Have you ever been scammed? Do you consider yourself a scammer?

[Ashley Nicole Black]

No, but I actually. I've never fallen prey to a scam, but I used to work in fraud prevention, so my knowledge of scamming comes from hearing about it from ladies calling in and telling us these, like, long, elaborate stories and us being like, ma', am, that is not what happened.

[Laci Mosley]

I love that you work in fire prevention. I don't. I think that's what I work in as well, but it's not clear. It's yet to be.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

It was a crazy gig because it was like. It was a lot of women calling and being like, there's a weird charge on my credit card. And it was like, her daughter has stolen her credit card. Her man was cheating on her and using her credit card to take the other woman out. She was being scammed by some, like, date. She thought she was dating this man, and he was literally just buying shit on her credit card. This was constant, but it was always just like, a really sweet lady calling, being 100% sure that we had made a mistake. And then you do a little investigation, and you're like, well, all the packages are going to your house, ma'. Am. So somebody in your house is using your credit card.

[Laci Mosley]

Ashley, you love mess. So I feel like you Was probably getting on Facebook and being like, okay, let me look her up.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

First of all, I became a mess detective. I was so good at that shit. They promoted me because I started out working in customer service and I was, quote, unquote, bad at customer service. I reject that because.

[Laci Mosley]

Yeah, don't claim that, sis.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

I don't claim that because you would get prizes for whoever got through the most phone calls in a day.

[Laci Mosley]

Okay, so you were speed racing.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

I was speed racing. It was me and this guy Jose. We were number one and number two. Every week getting through a lot of phone calls, my boss calls me and I'll never forget this conversation as long as I live. And he's like, obviously, you're doing a really good job. You're always number one or number two in the department. But it seems like you're not really enjoying the job. You're not really, like, making friends with the customer. I was like, oh, I'm not going to do that.

[Laci Mosley]

Enjoying it.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

You reward speed. I will give you fast phone calls, but what I'm not going to do is form a relationship with a customer. And he was like, this. You could enjoy this. Like, this is my dream job. And I was like, what? He was like, yeah, this is my dream job. I love doing this. I love getting to connect with people. And I was like, sir, I don't know what to tell you. This is never gonna be my dream. I am here to answer the phone as many times as possible, get a paycheck and a prize at the end of the week. That's what I have for you. He could not deal with so much to the point that he promoted me out of his department into the fraud prevention where I talk to fraudsters all day instead of the nice, normal people wanted me to connect with.

[Laci Mosley]

This is. This is giving gifted and talented. You were like, I don't want to do, like, come on now. I'm giving you efficiency. Move me. Wait, what do they want you to do to be, like, making friends with them? Like, because don't they call you to complain? I feel like when I call customer service, it's like, hello. Like, it's like, to me, a good

[Ashley Nicole Black]

customer service experience is when I get what I needed or at least an answer. If you don't get what you want, at least get a quick note and get off the phone. But they really prided themselves on, like, having good conversations with people and, like, just chatting them up. That's not what I want. When I call customer service, either tell me yes or no and hang up the phone.

[Laci Mosley]

Damn. In that case, it's probably even worse. I saw a video at Starbucks of a kid doing the body yada yada dance like. And he was a barista and so many comments were like, oh, he's going to get fired. And then people who worked at Starbucks like, no, he's not. Like, people at Starbucks want their baristas to make relationships with their customers who come all the time.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

So I want to get my coffee and go, I have somewhere to be. Why else would I be drinking coffee?

[Laci Mosley]

You don't wanna make fraud tiktoks for the art for the fraud department. Girl, let me see you my latest video before we get off.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

Actually, I probably should have because women fall for the same scams over and over. We probably should have been advertising better. If this man says he love you and he's never met you and he wants your credit card number, he doesn't love you, honey. Don't give it to me.

[Laci Mosley]

Men a scam. We're just. Hi, I'm here to call about just in general. Damn though that's, that's interesting because romance fraud makes up a huge sector of scams and women are disproportionately targeted by men. Like online, overseas. But that's. Do you think any of them were lying though? Do you think people were calling and being like, somebody using my car?

[Ashley Nicole Black]

Oh, people did that all the time. But it was very obvious to tell. Like they'd be like, I don't know who bought this. And it's like, oh, you don't know who bought this dinner? But here's a picture of you on Facebook at the dinner mail. I know who bought it.

[Laci Mosley]

Ashley, why you at the computer with a magnifying glass?

[Ashley Nicole Black]

Listen, we would be in they business. This was also years ago when everyone was on Facebook and everyone's Facebook was just public. So it was just very easy to see all of everybody's business. I don't know how people do this job now because now people have gotten a little bit smarter just not having their shit out there, right.

[Laci Mosley]

I have three different Facebooks and I look like three different people in them. Cause I was getting discounts signing up for shit in college. So I just kept making them and then got into the real world. And you know, we used to connect on Facebook and so people would look my Facebook up and they'd be like, why is this bitch who is this a criminal? Do you still have a Facebook?

[Ashley Nicole Black]

No,

[Laci Mosley]

you don't want to see what your auntie doing.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

We have a family text Chat, which is good for that. So I can just have that without the, like, arguing with old improvisers, which is what Facebook turned into.

[Laci Mosley]

Oh, God, I would love to see those arguments from the archives. Well, let's get into it. Ashley, I'm gonna need you to provide me with a fake name for this listener letter.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

I'm gonna go with Brittany. That was the first name that popped into my mind.

[Laci Mosley]

Oh, yes. Free Britney. It's Britney bitch. So it's Britney Bitch says. Oh, and also, I should say this if you're new to the episodes. Hey, what's up? What's poppin? We do this first segment. It's called what's Hot in Fraud? And this is where I'm gonna read one of your listener. As always, snitch on your friends and [e-mail]. just make sure the scam is retired because we don't want to fuck up your bag. Okay, so Ashley's giving us the amazing name today of Brittney. Brittney and Brittany wrote in to say, just sharing an oldie but a goodie. Love the podcast. We love a throwback scam. Okay, give me a FUBU jersey scam. So she says this scam is one that happened to me a long, long time ago and has just come back after. Just come back to me after discovering scam goddess. Oh, okay. It rejogged a memory. Okay, we'll take it.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

You opened up a trauma.

[Laci Mosley]

Oh, no. I ain't trying to give Yalls traumas. So I, like, make a better help out here. So about 20 years ago, just out of college, I ran fledging. I ran a fledgling, a fledging art gallery. Why can't I read today? Fledgling, fledgling. There we go.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

One more L. And I was trying

[Laci Mosley]

to figure out where it went. Do we go to the left? Did it go to the right? What is a fledgling art gallery?

[Ashley Nicole Black]

I guess a little baby art gallery.

[Laci Mosley]

Oh, okay. Oh, like she means like. Oh, like it's kind of like floundering and fledgling. Okay. Yeah, I know words, y'.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

All.

[Laci Mosley]

I be doing word today. I don't know why. I just had a. I don't know what happened to me right now. So most artists were our recent art school graduate friends and other local art people. So they're like, the girls, you know, they got a shoebox. They got a rental space with four white walls, and they're like, we get the new art girls to come, and we get the struggling artists. And how they would pay for things is they would do suggested Donations at the bars. So that's how they pay for their rent. And any art sales that they made were, like, a bonus. So basically, we held our own art shows, and we could throw monthly free parties for all our friends. Wonderful. Sounds cute. So what's the scam, girl? So, Brittany, says one woman whose art we exhibited at the time was a bit older than the rest of us. She was more successful than the art school kids. I mean. Cause she's, you know, probably been in the game longer. And she has always asked that we make a donation jar or give a percentage of our art sales to cancer.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

Oh, no.

[Laci Mosley]

Yeah, to cancer in general. This is gonna. I think this.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

This was fun up until this sentence. I was like, okay, bar scam. I'm here for it. All businesses are a scam. They always make their money off the bar and whatever else. Except the improv is free, y'. All.

[Laci Mosley]

The improv was free. Oh, man, I gave out so much. Freeze. Improvs. I need to write them improvs off on my taxes.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

Yeah, you were doing improv so that they could sell money. It's just a bar with people doing improv. They're selling beers off of you doing

[Laci Mosley]

it properly, which, like, honestly probably sells them so much. You need to, like, drink when you're washing.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

Oh, wait.

[Laci Mosley]

Because you're. You're Second City. You're, like, true blue Second City, right?

[Ashley Nicole Black]

Yeah. But only because when I got to Second City, immediately they were like, do you want a scholarship? We need black people. Can you understudy? So I stayed there, and all the other places were like, black people. No, thank you.

[Chelsea Jacobson]

Right.

[Laci Mosley]

That happened to me at ucb, but not in the beginning. In ucb New York, it was like, black people. No, thank you. And then I was like, let me take my black ass to Los Angeles. And then I had just got there at the perfect time, and they were like, you Negro.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

Yeah, we go in waves right now. We're in a wave. When you're in a wave of black popularity, make as much money as you can, because the wave will go out, y'. All.

[Laci Mosley]

We got four years. This is our time to clean up. Ashley, you ain't never lied. Save. Save right now. Catch all the licks you can. Okay. Cause we might go back out of Vogue. Roseanne gonna pop her ass back up on tv. Ooh, child. And I'm gonna have to be Roseanne Black, Baby. Do you think I could be Roseanne Black Baby from All Grown Up?

[Ashley Nicole Black]

Oh, my gosh. Every show, they're so good. I honestly, I Admire the creativity of how these shows figure out how to get one black person on show. He was adopted. Her daddy's in the military. Like, any way they could find to have only one black person in the family. That's not how families typically work.

[Laci Mosley]

Right. My favorite one is this is Us, because I feel like this is Us is a black show that people don't know is a black show.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

Yeah. They hide a little black in between a white show.

[Laci Mosley]

Right. That's excellent. That's a good scam. You didn't even know you was watching a black people show. So. Yeah, you're right. It turn. Takes a little turn. I think it's gonna get better, though. But, yeah, so she says we need to donate to cancer in generals. Basically, you know, give the. Give the girls at cancer a coin, even though there's many specifics, but okay. So we're handling a stack of her cash from the cancer donations after one of the art shows. We had been doing this for several. I finally thought to ask what cancer charity was the money being donated to? Because that's the question we all want to know, but we don't want to be too nosy. That's why, Ashley, if you started a scholarship that was for you, what would it be named?

[Ashley Nicole Black]

Oh, well, it would be like, the black family scholarship, like you think you're giving to the black community. And it's my family.

[Laci Mosley]

I like that you go cut your people in, though.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

That's kind.

[Laci Mosley]

That didn't even occur to me to do. I was like, this would be for me. So she was anselling. Brittany was, you know, counting the money, and she was like, oh, baby, baby, where does this money go? And the seasoned art dealer who was collecting the money, she looked me right in my eyes as the cash exchanged hands and replied, it's for me. I'm a breast cancer survivor. Then she pocketed the money, and I thought, that changes everything for me. I don't know. Is this still unethical? Cause she did it.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

Did

[Laci Mosley]

you answered so quick. The quickness. It was the quickness for me. Question. I have a question with morals. Okay. Because so to wrap this up, it says, I think she did this all over town and everywhere. And she showed her art. And honestly, with the state of healthcare in the United States, good on her. She really was a cancer survivor, and that part wasn't a scam. Looking back on it, I just figured she crowdfunded for herself before crowdfunding was even started. So basically, she is like the first gofundme.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

Like, she the timing does change it a little bit for me, because my first thought was, you could make a GoFundMe. And I feel like if you made a GoFundMe, and even if you said, I'm a survivor, I'm not currently going through this, but I'm raising money for our medical bills, people would donate. So my thing was like, why would you do this instead of a GoFundMe? But if GoFundMe didn't exist yet, that does, right?

[Laci Mosley]

And I'm also of the mind. Cause I see what you're saying, like, tell the story. I'm also like, the simplest conclusion is usually the right one. So I don't wanna give people too much information. They start doing math. I feel like you gonna give me. I feel like if I give you a story, then your brain has to be like, is this story legit? Is this person really need money? Let me look at them. I don't know. She looked. Her hair all back. She look cute. Like, I don't want people to assess me based on that.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

That is true for cancer. People just give money. If you a more specific story, then people start asking questions, right?

[Laci Mosley]

They're like, why are you giving me so much detail? You had me at cancer. Oh, God. I don't mean that as a joke, y'.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

All.

[Laci Mosley]

That's not a joke at all. But, yeah, I don't think about it. Guys, I don't know if this is ethical or not. It's not. Ashley says no, so I'm gonna agree with her.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

It's not. But I will say the timing did change it for me. If GoFundMe didn't exist yet, who knows now? Maybe she has a GoFundMe now that exists. And truly, if she had just created GoFundMe, she would have made all kinds of money. You know what I mean? She was actually scamming too small.

[Laci Mosley]

See, I don't know, though. Cause I feel like if you're at an art show and it's just a jar that says, for cancer, then you're just like, okay, we gonna throw a couple coins in for cancer, and we gonna keep it moving. On GoFundMe, you gotta value, but not too much production value. Gotta have, like. I know there are just, like, weirdos who probably get on GoFundMe and look for, like, what stories are worthy of my donation.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

I bet I never thought of this, but I bet there are people who, like, specialize in that. Like, let me make your story marketable enough for GoFundMe, which is so Sad. But I bet that's the thing.

[Laci Mosley]

Yeah, Sean King does it. Allegedly. Allegedly. All right, guys, we're going to take a quick break for some non scam advertisements and we'll be be right back with historic hoodwinks scams. And we are back and it's time for my favorite segment of the show, Historic hoodwinks. This is where I will regale Ashley with a famous hoodwink scam or con artiste and we'll get her opinions all throughout. We'll see if she says they're ethical or not. I have a feeling the answer will be no. So today we're talking about the king of Confederate counterfeit or Samuel Curtis. Is his name Samuel Curtis Upham? Let me say his last name. So you know we got an O scam because Samuel Curtis, welcome to drunk history. So he was a first known counterfeiter of money of the Confederate side of the American Civil War. So oven was scamming the slave girls. Like I guess that's not.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

Wait, he was making fake confederate money?

[Laci Mosley]

Yes. So far.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

I'm here for this. I need to hear more about it. But just off it's off top, I'm here for this.

[Laci Mosley]

He was doing pro slavery scams on them. You know what I mean? It's like a Trump supporter scam. I'm for that. So yeah, he's scamming, you know, the racists which the Civil War always makes me not laugh. It's not funny. But I always chuckle to think at how the majority of the Confederate south didn't own slaves but just was out there dying for that.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

Yeah. Off the low possibility that a, one day maybe I'll get super rich and B, I'll be able to own other people. And just in case that happens, I want to keep my options open. Also, you know, the saying is like a fool is soon parted from his money. I feel like this is the same thing as like Trump right now is raising millions of dollars by telling people help me win the election that I already lost. And it's like you could turn on CNN any time of day and see that he lost. If instead of doing that you choose to send your hard earned money to Donald Trump for him to buy gold toilets with. God bless you.

[Laci Mosley]

Right? That's on you. That's on you a little bit. And also like you made me laugh thinking about someone who's an aspiring slave owner. Like they just had pictures of black people in they house. Like one day I'm gonna get me

[Ashley Nicole Black]

like wanting a Mustang or a Corvette or something. Oh, no.

[Laci Mosley]

Oh, no. And I'm going to name him Toby. No, no. That's weird. That was. It's very weird, y'. All. Weird and bad. My ancestors probably are just about to just come down and beat the fuck out of me.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

You said it was bad. Honestly, it's more like tragic to be an aspiring slave owner than it is to be a slave owner. Like, if you're a slave owner, you're doing something reprehensible and terrible, but you're getting something out of it. If you don't even own slaves, you're getting nothing out of this and you choose to help uphold it. It's very sad, right?

[Laci Mosley]

I feel like if you didn't own slaves, you should have been a hater and you should have been fighting for the North. Like, you should have been like, look at that man over there. He always got, like, 30 slaves with him.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

I wouldn't be fighting for that. I'd be on my couch, like, good luck, sir. Maybe your slaves will help you fight. Right?

[Laci Mosley]

And sadly, they had to. So. Damn. But yes. So back to the scammer who, so far, you're scamming the right ones. So he is said to have produced 12 different types of Confederate notes and postage stamps and sold upwards of 80,000 fake notes by May of 1862, which is a key contribution to the tanking of the Confederate economy. It was one of your own.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

That's amazing. Also, I feel like the Confederacy, like, didn't have their shit together. Like, the fact that he could come up with 12 different notes and people were like, this is probably money, because they didn't know what the note was, what the money was.

[Laci Mosley]

That's an excellent point.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

That's on you.

[Laci Mosley]

He was just like, I don't know. Today we put this, the President head on the corner. Like, I don't know. Like, look, the printed press broke my other model. So we just. We got new money now. That's so funny. Like, none of the money looks the same. It's. Oh, gosh, guys. So he was also doing postage stamps, which makes sense. So this is all like, May of 1862, which was a key contribution to the tanking of the Confederate Army. I said that. So at age 20, Upham left his parents farm in Vermont in hopes for finding jobs as a clerk in New York. He sounds like a carpetbagger.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

I mean, good on him going to get a job when he had this great scam going.

[Laci Mosley]

Right? Right. He was like, let me go down and see what the Jethros are doing. And Let me run. Let me start making money for them. So over the next few years, he had joined the Navy, traveled, got married, sailed to California. Why you gotta sail? How you sail to California? You got to go around the back. I'm just gonna sound dumb this whole episode. No, yeah, you totally can. So did you just do a circle around America?

[Ashley Nicole Black]

I mean, maybe that's faster if your other option was, like, riding a horse there.

[Laci Mosley]

Oh, you right. Yeah. Horse would be. I'm like, flight is six hours. Yeah, y' all might have got the cholera if y' all tried to pull up with the horsepower. I got the typhoid.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

You want to get the dysentery.

[Laci Mosley]

Imagine if dysentery came back.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

We're a minute away from that right now. People out here bragging about not wanting to give vaccines. It's gonna be Oregon Trail up in here any minute now.

[Laci Mosley]

Okay, I will say this. I'm not an anti vaxxer. I get my shots. But as. As a black who is very curious, I just want to see one person get it. Like, one person in front of me.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

I'm not gonna be first in line. Listen, vaccines are great. We should all get them. I'm not going to be first in line.

[Laci Mosley]

No, not first, but listen, I will be, like, in the same. Like, I think I need two weeks from the first person getting it that I know. And I'm like, they don't. Are they looking alive? Okay, okay, well, let me go get mine then.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

And I want the same one she got.

[Laci Mosley]

Right? I want exactly. No, I want what Samantha got. She told me on Facebook. I asked her. So. Oh, my goodness. It's so sad that that comes from just, like, the paranoia of black people in America with doctors. Cause they are mean to. Yeah.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

And people always say, like, well, you know, when they're excusing us. Historically black people. Historically, nothing black. Like, doctors treat us like shit. Right now, yesterday, tomorrow,

[Laci Mosley]

in the future. In the future.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

I went to the dermatologist one time. Now, to be fair, this is a very old dermatologist. I was shocked that this man was still working. And he was like, oh, there's just nothing we could do for black people. And I was like, I feel like that's not true. Like, maybe in 1940 when you went to doctor school, but today in 2015, I feel like lots of dermatologists work on black people.

[Laci Mosley]

He was like, back in my day, they had color dermatologists. Okay. You didn't bring that Queen Latifah shit over here. Oh, my God, girl, that's crazy. And he said that to you to your eyeballs, yes.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

And not even in, like, a mean way. He was just like, obviously, there's nothing that I, a dermatologist can do for you.

[Laci Mosley]

No, that makes. Okay, now that I think about it. I've had one experience like that I went to get hair lasered off, and at the time, they were like, we don't have lasers for black people. And I was like, so y' all just be telling people that, huh? Okay, so now y' all got. You sure you ain't got a laser in the back?

[Ashley Nicole Black]

I'm happy to leave. It's like. Like when you walk in the trailer and the hairdresser size and you're like, you know what? I'm happy to walk back out. It's okay. I don't want to be experimented on today.

[Laci Mosley]

And you deserve that. You are a queen, a working queen. I will say one note on that. I've learned that the makeup artists, they don't get upset when they see the black person that they can't do the makeup for. They try to lean in a little bit. I always get like, oh, my God, your skin's so beautiful. I barely have to do anything to it. I'm like, wait a minute.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

One time, a makeup artist was like, you brought your own makeup, right? And I was like, bitch, did you bring me some jokes?

[Laci Mosley]

Who's doing who's shown here? Damn. She hit you with the comic view. Damn, Ashley. Oh, my God.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

I didn't bring any makeup. I didn't bring my own lights and cameras either. What are we doing?

[Laci Mosley]

Cause they're so used to working black women. Cause we will bring our own makeup when we like. Oh, you know, you just want to hedge your bet just in case.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

A few wigs.

[Laci Mosley]

But not you expecting it. Not you here. Like, oh, girl, what are you doing in here? I know you got your own makeup.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

Get out.

[Laci Mosley]

Go.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

Let's not even play with each other.

[Laci Mosley]

I'm not even gonna waste your time. Okay? You knew when you was black that you shouldn't come in here.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

You knew damn well you were gonna get up out this chair, go fix your makeup in your trailer anyway.

[Laci Mosley]

So she's like, I love her being like that, though. That's how bold people feel comfortable saying shit to you. Ashley. I feel like you're like a vault of secrets.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

Yeah, I have this little chubby cheeks that people are like, she's safe. I could say any kind of shit to her.

[Laci Mosley]

Use it. Write all your secrets down. We've only got Four years for blacks, right? Now it's time to leverage them. So he moves around, right? He, you know, sails to California, participates in the Gold rush, which was just like the white people colonization race, which I love. So he. I don't love it, but, you know, it makes me laugh, in pain. So realized that he was not a good gold miner. And so he went actually for the physical gold rush, but people were going for land as well. So he went to actually get his little pan out and get in the creek.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

It was also scam central, right? So I'm sure he picked up a new scam while he was there, right?

[Laci Mosley]

And there's fool's gold, which was just like a rock with some shiny shit in it. So, you know, there was ripe for scams. So he eventually settled in Philadelphia and opened up a shop because he realized he was like, okay, the mining ain't for me, y'.

[Chelsea Jacobson]

All.

[Laci Mosley]

Y' all got that. So at the start of the Civil War, Upham began. I have to say his name like that. I'm sorry. Guys began marketing patriotic items to support the Union in novelty items mocking the Confederacy. So he said, merge.

[Chelsea Jacobson]

Yeah.

[Laci Mosley]

Can you imagine? War merch. What does that like?

[Ashley Nicole Black]

You almost have to appreciate the mind that are like, people are dying. How can I make money off of this?

[Laci Mosley]

Just like when we went to the Vietnam War, someone was out there just like, I gotta make peace signs. So many peace signs. I'm gonna sell these on the street. I guess it is a hustle. It's just. Okay. So he was making all these items, and, you know, he had something for everybody. One of them was like a card that depicted the head of Confederate President Jefferson Davis on the body of a jackass. So he was giving the girls jokes. On February 24, 1862, big news broke, and all over town, the people were getting their hands on the newspaper, the Philadelphia Inquirer. Upham's own store, a comb perfumery and stationery shop, couldn't keep up with the demand. You.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

That's too many things. That's too many things.

[Laci Mosley]

As I was reading it, I was like, there's some more ands here.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

He opened the first Target.

[Laci Mosley]

Oh, my God, he did. That's the first Target, bruh. You couldn't leave his store without perfumeries and all types of shit. Even though you came in there for apples, you was completely with some perfumery. I love it. So a bum stopped a customer purchasing the paper and asked what the fuss was over. It was about Grayback, the man who told him a picture of a $5 Confederate Brill was printed on the front page paper. It was the first time many northerners had seen one. So basically the girls were like, oh, my God, the Confederacy is really trying to pull away. They got. They starting to make their own coin. Look at this. We gonna put it in the paper. So they put a picture of money in the paper, which at the time, now doesn't seem like such a good idea.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

But this is probably how they learned you had to do stuff to learn you shouldn't do it.

[Laci Mosley]

It's like the first US dollar came out and it was like, look at everybody. We gonna print this on paper for everybody. Like, this is exactly how it look.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

This is the exact dimensions of what it looks like.

[Laci Mosley]

We literally stuck it to every paper. We just. So Upham grabbed the Inquirer to see for himself. The paper had made a strikingly detailed replica of the currency. I love Upham so much because he immediately went to robbery. He was like, let me go get that paper. So it was how the other side in the Civil War, now a year old, kept their economy flowing. Intrigued, he contacted the reporter who had written the story and learned the Inquirer had used a printing plate to strike the currency note for reproduction.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

Not them telling him how to do it.

[Laci Mosley]

Hey, it's me. Hey, Ashley. This the fire department, right? I got some questions. No.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

If somebody, not me, wanted to print

[Laci Mosley]

some money, but not me, though, you know what I mean? Like when people call. What. What stories do you believe the most? Just. Just wondering. I can't. So up obviously had an idea. If it worked, he would not only undermine the Confederate economy, but make himself a good bit of money in the process. So he said, I can be a hero and I can also get rich. So how the scam started, he offered to buy the plate from the reporter, then used it to run off 3,000 copies of the banknote printed on premium French paper. Why as a reporter, would you let somebody buy that from you?

[Ashley Nicole Black]

Well, it's like, this can't go wrong.

[Laci Mosley]

I mean, I guess if you don't know how to print money, you might as well make a coin. Giving it to somebody who does, that's fine. So because this was the real thing, it was so easily duplicated up, him decided to capitalize on the replica money. He also knew some people might take it upon themselves to use it as actual money. Okay, so, all right, nigga. Like, he was like, I'm making.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

He was selling it, quote unquote, as merch. That's hilarious.

[Laci Mosley]

Here's merch that's actually counterfeit money. Yeah. Here's your merch. I love that. I love that. He was like, no, but don't actually use it like that. So as a stop, please. But I did have it printed the most accurately. So as a form of insurance policy against any fraud claims, he added facsimile Confederate note to the bottom of each bill. Okay, so he told the girls they were fake of them. Sold the five dollar notes for a penny a piece beginning in March of 1862. He sold out of his initial print almost immediately. Another periodical, Frank Leslie's Illustrated Newspaper, had a plate for a ten dollar bill.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

Why?

[Laci Mosley]

The sales didn't want to win. Y' all started trying to make your own money. And then Northerners were like, hey, girls, could you send us a plate? We want to write about you in the Times.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

What?

[Laci Mosley]

So Upham bought that one too, and began running off larger notes for 5 cents apiece. He eventually got samples of the denominations by offering to buy them at a premium. By May, he was offering 14 different denominations along with Confederate stamps and other mementos of the rebellion. Why? Many proud Union allies bought them as collectibles. Newsboys sold them on the street for a modest profit. Others saw an opportunity. The bills made their way to the Confederate occupants, who bought them for 30 to 40 cents on the dollar. Some use the bills for cotton purchases. Then they would smuggle and make it back into the Union territory. So basically, people realized, let's just go down to Maryland, which they love to say they, the South. They're like the Mason Dixon line. They're like, let's dip a toe over to Mason Dixon and see if the girls. You could use some counterfeit coin. I think that's an excellent idea. And then they would smuggle cotton back. So the biggest sellers were the hundred dollar bills, which cost no more than a smaller denomination. So he was selling this for cheap. He was selling these bills to people for like 30, 40 cents, maybe a dollar. And then they were, what, how many multiplications?

[Ashley Nicole Black]

But I feel like that's part of the hustle, because if your thing is, oh, I'm just selling this as merchant, it makes sense, you know what I mean? Like, when you eventually get caught, you could be like, how would I think that something I sold them for 5 cents they were gonna use as $100 bill. Like, obviously it's only 5 cents because I thought it was merch.

[Laci Mosley]

Right? These are to commemorate, y'. All. Commemorate something that hasn't really took place yet. It's like, maybe there's gonna be a civil war, and the girls wanna remember it before it happened. So getting caught, that was excellent instincts on your part. Ashley wasn't being at all stealthy about his fraud. He was doing fraud in bright daylight. In addition to advertising them as amusement, he labeled each note with his name and mailing address. Of course not. You being like, but if you want some real ones, come on over. So he's putting his name and mailing address. Obviously, people are gonna tear off portions of the identifying bills as fakes and leave a perfectly serviceable banknote. That wasn't his fault. O. So he's also putting the print at the bottom that's like, this is for fun. Y' all don't use this for fraud. But back in the day, like, people didn't really care if you gave him, like, ripped up money, so they would just rip that off. That's an excellent idea. I feel like now you can't give people ripped up money, though.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

No. You're supposed to be able to, like, turn it back into the bank after it gets ripped up, like. But I just don't imagine a world where the bank teller is like, yes, I believe you. Here's $100.

[Laci Mosley]

Yeah. I feel like I've always just abided by the soda machine rule. I try to keep my dollars crisp enough to be able to go into the Coca Cola machine. So this is him getting caught. Continued. So of course people were faking with these bills and whatever. President Davis discovered this and deeply disapproved the fakes. And in the Confederate paper, the Richmond Daily Dispatch, accused the union of scoundrelism. I love that word. So they were being scoundrels. I didn't know that was, like, a theory, though.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

I truly. I mean, this is so modern, the idea that you're like, we own slaves. We own human people. We want to keep owning them, so we're killing a bunch of people to fight for the right to keep owning people. But you, sir, are a scoundrel.

[Laci Mosley]

I'm doing murders every day. But you, sir, you with your printing paper and your ink, a scoundrel. That's exactly what it is. Because I'm like, what? That's like the gaslighting. It's just so the Congress of the Confederacy criminalized counterfeiting so many seas into a defense punishable by death. And offered $10,000 if someone could deliver up them to a court, Confederate court, dead or alive. How you gonna be. Be like, bring him to court dead or alive for trial.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

We just want to try him it's very legal, what we want to do.

[Laci Mosley]

No, we'll still try him if he's dead. No, no, no, that's perfectly fine. Ain't no problem. Ain't no problem. As polarized as the nation was, the federal agents couldn't turn a blind eye to someone printing reams of money. Upham received a visit from the authorities who were concerned he was counterfeiting both Confederate and Union dollars. So the Union didn't pull up like, okay, but are you doing how many? You just doing them cuz them, but okay, just check. The case was turned over to the Secretary of War who dismissed the possibility of any wrongdoing when he found out that Upam was only targeting Southern notes. Legally, it was none of their concern.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

Yeah, you want to be your own country, be your own country. Then figure out how to extradite. That's what countries do.

[Laci Mosley]

They said, that's none of my business. Okay. And now I'm going to turn around, up them. If you're gone when I come, walk, turn back around. You know I can't do anything about that, so. Damage to the Confederacy. From March 1862 to August 1863, Upham figured out that he had put around $15 million worth of fake currency into circulation. As the war round down, Confederate states found themselves with a surplus of currency and an increasingly devalued dollar. This man might have helped win the. A pound of Tea cost $35 in Richmond, Virginia. Barrels of flour were going up for $1,000.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

And that's like a million dollars now. Like, that's crazy. People wouldn't be able to eat under that, right?

[Laci Mosley]

They're like just trying to figure out. They're like, how much money do people have and why is everybody. Money ripped at the bottom. So Mississippi senator Henry Foote said Upham had done more damage to the Confederacy than General McClellan's army had. When Upham died at the age of 66, he lived to.66 in 1885.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

Had all that money. He was living well.

[Laci Mosley]

He was buying the best health care. He said, give me all the leeches.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

Leeches and humors.

[Laci Mosley]

Is that turpentine? Throw it in the back.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

It was a rich rich, yes.

[Laci Mosley]

So he left an estate worth nearly $5,000. Much of it is presum presumed to come from his bursts of activity doing counterfeiting. Wow.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

We need the movie. I don't often advocate for movies about white people, but we need this movie. This is a good movie.

[Laci Mosley]

What if we Hamilton it, Ashley, and we do it and we be These people. No, we get canceled because we have to be the Confederate States, too.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

Yeah, I know.

[Laci Mosley]

Oh, man. Damn. You're right. But the movie's gonna be good. But we can't be in it.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

Well, we could, but it is our idea. So don't try to steal it. Don't try to steal it.

[Laci Mosley]

Actually, actually, we could be in the movie and that could be our one chance to get our Oscars. Because, you know, black people get Oscars from slave movies all the time.

[Chelsea Jacobson]

Yes.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

All you have to do is have terrible hair in a slave movie and the Oscar is yours.

[Laci Mosley]

Right? It can be a little bit. And let us see the pain.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

Cry a single tear.

[Laci Mosley]

Right after your whole family is like, murdered, you cry a single tear and they're like, oscar.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

Just the right amount of pain.

[Laci Mosley]

Like, I'm. I'm happy. Like, I. I feel her pain, but she's not making me. She's not making it weird for me. You know what I mean? Like, when I. When I go to the movies, I don't wanna.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

This movie probably already sold during this podcast. Like, while we're talking right now, somebody already bought it because they're like a movie from back then where a white man did something kind of good, right?

[Laci Mosley]

He's. He's the. He is a white savior. We found a legitimate one.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

One say less.

[Chelsea Jacobson]

For real,

[Laci Mosley]

bro. Write it up now. Let me get Brad Pitt on the line. Brad.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

It's not Tommy. Brad.

[Laci Mosley]

Callbacks. That's why I love a good comedian. Yes, a queen. Oh, gosh. Guys, we're going to take a quick break and then we have to come back for the saddest part of the show, which is where I have to let Ashley go. But not before we do scammer of the week. So come on back. Robbery and fraud. And we're back. Did you? Come on back? Did you?

[Ashley Nicole Black]

They're off selling the movie.

[Laci Mosley]

Damn it. We getting scared. Listen, I be getting scammed by my fans. I've talked about this before. I had fans get on TikTok and boldly use my voice to promote something that I started and make merch in the TikTok. And I had merch too. And I was seeing they merch more than I was seeing my mouth.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

No honor among scammers.

[Laci Mosley]

People were tagging me. And that's the thing is I can't be upset about it because it's what I have encouraged people to do. So I was like, on one hand, like 2020 was my idea. You stealing from me. I'm black owned.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

I am Black owned.

[Laci Mosley]

Actually, I don't know if I'm black owned, y'. All. I do technically work for a st with a studio, so maybe I'm not black. No, I'm black owned, y'.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

All. And.

[Laci Mosley]

And buy black this year and every year. But yeah, so I was like, getting tagged and stuff, and they'd be like, oh, girl, there go your merch. Yes. And I was like, oh, my God. Bumper stickers, like, all type of shit. I was like, I'm just gonna sit here and take my L and hold it.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

Congratulations.

[Laci Mosley]

Enjoy your little coin scammer, and you deserve it. What can I say? I can't run this show and then tell you not to rob me.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

Like, you have to do an expose on your own, so

[Laci Mosley]

I'm gonna have to do several. Geez. So scammer of the week. This is actually from a Tick Tock. So right about what we were just talking about, this is Tick Tocker. It's. I'm not gonna say his handle because I don't. I don't be knowing. These are children. You know, you get on Tick Tock, especially on Tick Tock, I'm like, are they 8 years old? Are they 85 years old?

[Ashley Nicole Black]

Well, once they do the contouring, everybody looks the same age. There's just no way to know.

[Laci Mosley]

That's so true. Have you ever. There's like an older white mom on TikTok who does all the hip hop dances. And like, yes, I. Sometimes I'm amused by her, but sometimes she be taking it too far. Like, I recently saw one where I can't remember what shirt she was wearing, but I was like, the shirt is giving me pause. And then she was singing about being. It was some rap song about being from the hood. And then all of a sudden, some Hennessy appears out of somewhere. And I was like, no, thank you.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

You know, it's a little bit on us because nobody gases people up better than black people. Yeah, that's something online. The other day, it was just like a little kid dancing or something. And it was just hundreds of comments from black people being like, look at

[Laci Mosley]

that go, you're amazing.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

Blah, blah, blah. And then people go too far because we gas em up too far.

[Laci Mosley]

You're right, we really do. And it'll be like any white person doing anything fun, we'd be like, okay, uncle. Yes, niece.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

That's what you call positive reinforcement.

[Laci Mosley]

Edges gathered. Okay? And we got a new phrase for it every week.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

We like, yes, white people are out here. Like, I can't do anything Right. It's like, yes, you can. If you dance on TikTok, we will celebrate you. Don't act like.

[Laci Mosley]

Don't act like we ain't never celebrated you. Right. That's the thing is, like, it's confusing. You're right about that. It's confusing to me that white people feel bad when black people talk about racism. I mean, you should feel bad because you're probably participating in some. But. But when it makes them upset, like, well, you're making us ashamed to be white. And it's like, are you kidding? Like, black people have been hyping white people up since the beginning of time.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

Yeah. If you season your food, we will celebrate you.

[Laci Mosley]

It's not difficult to do if you own garlic powder. We'll be like, yes, niece.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

Come on, Chef.

[Laci Mosley]

Okay. Emeril Lagasse. We see you, girl. I would eat over there. And we love inviting people to the cookout. So I'm like, come on, now. Even though I keep fighting with people on Twitter about the imagination cookout and how we're rescinding all invitations.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

Yeah, we. You have to put a moratorium and, you know, go back through the past invitations.

[Laci Mosley]

Cause I was just like, there's too many invitations flying everywhere.

[Chelsea Jacobson]

I mean,

[Laci Mosley]

it's too much. It's like, oh, this. We saw this white woman cornrow on TikTok. Now she's at the. Now she's at the cookout. I'm like, I don't know. So this is. And we'll bring this up. This is Tiktoker. I'm not gonna say his name, but we're gonna pull up his TikTok so you can can see it. So he built an app that resembles Facebook or Instagram Live, except it makes it look like you have thousands of viewers watching and commenting. He said he used the app to live his life like a celebrity. Wait, so can we click on Sam? Can you click on one of these videos? Because I want to see what he

[Chelsea Jacobson]

talking about, go through the money. And I told him I lost all this money while walking to the realtor's office. Can they, like, look on the security cameras and see if maybe I dropped it somewhere? Told me to sit down. And they went to the back room to look at the security cameras. And when they came back out, they asked me if I was still wearing that same shirt I currently had on. They change at any point. And was I Definitely here at 3:00pm I said, yes, I was definitely here at 3:00pmel. I remember everything. I remember waiting in line. I remember getting the Money. I remember everything she said. We just checked the security cameras and we don't even see you in this bank at all. Guys, I'm out of time. Link and follow for part two.

[Laci Mosley]

Okay, so I'm not going to click on part two because I want to drive you all crazy. But I think that he. His. His. In his TikTok is giving. Like, I talk about the subsector TikTok, that's called borrowing, where they just teach you how to steal shit, which I love. Like, there's so many fun ways to just borrow things. So he must be like a full time scammer because this isn't even the scam that we're talking about. Like, that was something that he was just giving tips on how to rob the bank.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

But I feel like, I mean. And you're the exact. To me, it's not a good scam. It's not a smart scam if a black person couldn't do it. If I walked in the bank and said, I've lost some money, could you check the security footage?

[Laci Mosley]

I'd be like, bitch, get out of here. What? You see them just mashing the silent alarm under the desk?

[Ashley Nicole Black]

There's no part two to that conversation. You're like, I walked into a bank and got them to do a bunch of unnecessary stuff for me. That's just what being white is. That's not a scam. That's not you coming up with a cool idea.

[Laci Mosley]

He said, hey, guys, I have this perfect scam for getting away from the police with your life. I know. Like, I tried. That's not gonna work for us.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

You're right.

[Chelsea Jacobson]

You're right.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

Centuries of privilege.

[Laci Mosley]

It's called the cop is my dad. Yeah, you're absolutely right. Like, we don't even need the other half because we know black people couldn't do it.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

I'm out.

[Laci Mosley]

I'm out.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

As soon as I talked to the bank manager.

[Laci Mosley]

What? I ain't never had anything in my life unless I was in there. Like, I have money for y'. All. I have something to offer. Nicole Byer and I were talking about this and how when we go to the doctors, call back to us talking about the doctor before. How, like, we'll, like, wear, like, some designer or something to try to be like, I'm an important black. Please don't kill me.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

Yes. I've never done that at the doctor, but I had a job at one time where I had to fly and, like, go straight. So normally, like, everybody. I dress for the airport in, like, sweat Something comfortable. But because I had to go straight from work, I would go to the airport in, like, my heels, you know, my whole work outfit or whatever. And all of a sudden people were so nice. And it's like, oh, black people have to be dressed to the nines to get damn good customer service. It's crazy.

[Laci Mosley]

I didn't know we were still in civil war. I mean, in civil rights rules, because that was.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

That's put on a three, three piece before you go to the grocery store.

[Laci Mosley]

I bet you people were in the war room with Martin Luther King, like, huh? He was like, all right, so this is what we're gonna do. We all gonna wear our best suit. Okay? Everybody go out to Mia's warehouse.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

What about the water hoses?

[Laci Mosley]

Martin, don't worry about all that. Don't worry about all that. All right.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

Your best suit.

[Laci Mosley]

What?

[Ashley Nicole Black]

Looks like getting bit by a police dog in my best suit. Martin.

[Laci Mosley]

They're like, martin, we can't run fast in these suits. I can't get away from these dogs when I'm wearing penny loafers.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

He's like, trust me, my suit has asphalt burn on it. What am I supposed to wear on Sunday?

[Laci Mosley]

Martin, we're in Georgia. It's hot. I can't keep wearing this three piece suit. Oh, gosh. I just really want to make the ancestors smile today.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

Probably looking down here at us like marching in yoga pants and tank tops, like, wow, things are better, right? Look how comfortable they are.

[Laci Mosley]

I'm mad. That's how far we've gotten is to just. We still protested, but now they get to be in comfort.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

We don't have to wear heels when we do it, right.

[Laci Mosley]

The women over here are giving their best kitten on these walks. I remember walking 12 miles and being like, in tennis shoes and being like, oh, my God, how are people doing this? And they were in the kitten heel. Oh, boy.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

Boy.

[Laci Mosley]

Best shout out to y'.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

All.

[Laci Mosley]

We love y'. All. So he said that he made this app. Remember we was talking about that guy? So he was talking about this tiktoker, right? So he made this app where you could get on like. It basically was like Facebook, Instagram Live, except for it makes you look like you have thousands of viewers watching and commenting. So he did this because he was like, I want to live like a celebrity. He then took his new clout to a Miami beach club where he met a woman and a couple of rich brothers who invited him to their two table, of course, because he was in Miami. And they were like, oh, you got Followers, like, so when one of the girls asked, why do you have so many followers? Trying to figure out if they rich or popping? He responded with, I never tell people in person who I am.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

If that worked, God bless her. If that worked on her.

[Laci Mosley]

This feels like another one of those scams that us as blacks could not get away with. So he took his fake IG Live for clout at the club when it was at max capacity. He then showed the host his phone with 49,000 viewers watching live, and the host said, we would love your shout out. I'll let you in the back. Wow.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

So, see, I was wondering, why live? Because, like, if the viewers on live don't match up to how many followers you have, but that actually makes sense because in the moment, this is like a classic scam in the moment, you're like, they're on live right now and you feel that urgency.

[Laci Mosley]

Right? It feels more legitimate than, like. Because that's the thing is, like, people have been buying followers, like, since Methuselah. So when we see a bunch of followers, like, I immediately go and click on one picture and I'll see, like, how many likes you're getting. Because if you're not getting a proportionate amount of likes, I think it's like 10% of your followers for each pose is, like, pretty high. So if I don't see that, I'm like, are these bots?

[Ashley Nicole Black]

Yeah.

[Laci Mosley]

So I think if you have bots that are like, pulling up live, you're right. That kind of disarms me because then I'm like, these people are active. Like, Jaleesa just said, oh, Ethan, you so fun. Oh, I wonder what the fake comments are. Because that was the thing of it too, is it was like, fake comments and fake viewers.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

So that'd be something that would work no matter what. So it's got to be just like, yes. It's just a lot of like. Like, it's just 49k people being like, yes, queen.

[Laci Mosley]

He just went and copy pasted all the black people under white people's dancing TikToks.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

Well, this tracks. Black people do love to gas people up, right?

[Laci Mosley]

It was like, yeah, okay, come on in. Yes. So he's like, come in to bed. So the club gave him and his friends VIP treatment and lots of and, like, free tables and stuff. He made a miniseries on TikTok called Clout Hackers, where he showed shows off his adventures and plugs his app, Parallel Live. So Parallel Live is the app that he has the fake Instagram Twitter thing to Go live on. Not Twitter. But I'm sure you'll be able to go live on Twitter soon. Can you imagine the chaos if people could go on Twitter live?

[Ashley Nicole Black]

I mean, I guess that's what Periscope was. And it was so chaotic to be. Periscope lasted like two weeks. People were like, we actually don't want this, right?

[Laci Mosley]

Like, this is bad for our health.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

Don't do this.

[Laci Mosley]

Just because we can't doesn't mean we should. But you have a very, like, active, funny Twitter. So I would. I would like to see you go live on Twitter.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

It would just see me napping. Like, I spent most of my time hanging out with my dog. And there are people who would watch that. Like, I joked that I was going to get my dog in OnlyFans. People were like, I would pay money to see exclusive pictures of your dog.

[Laci Mosley]

Drop the link, sis.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

She's naked, right? She's already naked. Just take the picture.

[Laci Mosley]

No, put her in some clothes first, maybe. Oh, no. Oh, Lord. But yeah. So actually, I am gonna give you guys this tiktoker's name in case you wanna go over to the page. It's Ethan Kesser. So that's I t S E T H A N K E I S E R. If you wanna see the rest of that robbery story, maybe you're a white man who looks like. Who could actually rob the bank. So maybe you should finish the story. Unfortunately, we could not. Oh, guys, that brings us to the saddest part of the show. This is where I have to let Ashley Nicole Black go with her three names.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

I learned a lot today. We got a new movie pitch. This was a good day, right?

[Laci Mosley]

Listen, Ashley's a very talented, hilarious writer, so you could still write this movie. Even though I guess we can't be in it. It can. Can you write me a good slave part? I want to be prestigious.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

Are there any things left to put in a movie that haven't been put in the 5 million other movies about slavery?

[Laci Mosley]

Oh, man. I'm thinking it had to be, like, a funny slave. You know, one.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

Oh, it had to be, because how else do you survive?

[Laci Mosley]

Like, there's a campfire at the end, and he was like. And massa was like. And I was like.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

And then the slave says something problematic, and the other slaves are like, great, now we can't sit around the campfire anymore because Jim had to be problematic.

[Laci Mosley]

Oh, my God. He went to. He took it too far. Oh, love it. All right, so, Ashley, we always ask, where do you want to Be found.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

Ooh, that's a great question. On Twitter, it's Ashley in one. C, O L E. I was not an early adopter. I got a bad screen name. But don't look at N2 or N3 or N4 or N5. Those are all scammers pretending to be me.

[Laci Mosley]

I'm N1.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

Yes.

[Laci Mosley]

You were saying that online that somebody's, like, pretending to be you, and then they're asking for money. What was happening?

[Ashley Nicole Black]

Yeah, yeah, because I always, you know, highlight charities or political campaigns and stuff like that. So some smart person was like, oh, I'll pretend to be Ashley. Just ask for money just for me.

[Laci Mosley]

I love that.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

Problem is that they can't spell. And I don't know what it is about going through all the trouble to make a scam and not using spell check, but that is what alerts you to most scams, right?

[Laci Mosley]

It's always like, it's I, friend, send money quick. Grandma sick. Love, friend, love. Like, you're like, wait, why? Why? Oh, that's hilarious, though. I. I do like that it's for charity, because I think I would feel a little insulted if people were making a lot of pages to thinking that you needed donations to yourself.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

Yeah, well, that's the thing. I'm like, why? I don't think anyone has actually given them money. But it's like, you have to know that I'm okay, guys.

[Laci Mosley]

Like, I don't know, y'. All. Ashley might could need our money.

[Ashley Nicole Black]

I don't know. I don't know what HBO's doing these days. Maybe she's not okay. Don't worry.

[Laci Mosley]

HBO's. They're paying the girls. But I like that. I like that thought for a moment. All right, guys. Well, as always, if you want to write into the show, snitch on your friends and family. Scamgottispodmail.com scam got us pod on all platforms. If you want to follow me and my shenanigans. D I V A L A C I Diva Lacey. On all platforms. Congregation, stay scheming. Scam Goddess. This has been an Earwolf production in association with Team Coco. Scam Goddess is starring me.

[Chelsea Jacobson]

Duh.

[Laci Mosley]

Scam Goddess, AKA Laci Mosley. Scam Goddess is produced by Chelsea Jacobson and engineered by Marina Faiz with research by Sherilyn Vera. Stay scheming.