The Crooked Carpet Cleaner w/ Ronnie Adrian (Fraud Friday)

Summary

Scam Goddess: "The Crooked Carpet Cleaner" w/ Ronnie Adrian (Fraud Friday)

Podcast: Scam Goddess
Host: Laci Mosley
Guest: Ronnie Adrian
Date: May 15, 2026

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Episode Overview

This Fraud Friday episode uncovers the wild true-con tale of Barry Minkow, the infamous "crooked carpet cleaner" behind one of the largest one-man Ponzi schemes in American history. Host Laci Mosley ("the Scam Goddess") and comedian guest Ronnie Adrian gleefully dissect Minkow’s rise from child telemarketer to multimillionaire (and pastor!), eventually running everything from check-kiting scams to a front for laundering drug profits. The duo blend deep scam analysis, personal confessionals, and hilarious riffing to remind listeners: “the best scammers are the persistent ones that never know when to quit.”

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Key Segments & Insights

1. "What's Hot in Fraud?" - Listener Scam Confession

[02:22–13:13]

• Featured listener scam: “Tina Marie” shares a classic food scam—claiming missing items from fast food orders to score free meals during college. The tale escalates as Tina tries the same on a more mom-and-pop custard shop… and gets called out.
• Laci’s Fraud Wisdom:
  • “When you realize there’s an opportunity for scamming, just gotta take advantage.” (03:08)
  • “If you’re a good scammer, know when to stop or to move on to a new type of scam. You have to have a diverse portfolio as a scammer.” (08:39)
• Ronnie’s Take: “That being the ending of her scam, like, oh, it’s getting too hot, I gotta stop… I think you probably could have kept going if you wanted to.” (08:20)
• Comic Interlude:
  • Laci and Ronnie joke about the lengths Tina went for her “husband’s” Oreo milkshake, inventing a whole backstory and wedding ring for her custard con.

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2. Historic Hoodwinks: The Saga of Barry Minkow & ZZZZ Best

[15:34–74:33]

Who Is Barry Minkow?

[15:54–20:34]

• Began working (illegally) as a telemarketer at 9, started carpet-cleaning biz ZZZZ Best at 15.
• Laci: “This is some Steve Jobs shit. Didn’t Steve start his shit in the garage?”
• Early troubles: Minkow pulls “post-dated check” scams, sells grandma’s jewelry, fakes break-ins—anything for startup capital.

The Rise of ZZZZ Best (A.K.A. The Audacious Ponzi)

[22:25–33:03]

• Expands into “insurance restoration”—a fake division, using forged documents with help from crooked insurance adjuster Tom Padgett.
• Ronnie: “For a $100 million scam, you gotta look in the mirror. I should’ve known!”
• ZZZZ Best’s carpet cleaning side is legitimate enough to win “high marks for quality,” giving cover for the fake insurance gigs.
• 1986: ZZZZ Best goes public, Minkow retains 53% control, IPOs on the Nasdaq—no one visits the “sites” (just mailboxes!).
• “He launched a massive television advertising campaign portraying ZZZZ Best as a carpet cleaner that Southern Californians could trust. Now, technically, you could trust the carpet cleaning…” (39:34)

The Downfall: Busted by a Petty Customer

[39:04–47:57]

• A homemaker Minkow defrauded for only a few hundred dollars hunts down other victims and delivers a diary to the LA Times.
• Laci: “If you ever hear this phrase in your life—I got time—you better fix whatever that situation is, and immediately.” (42:13)
• Her investigation exposes the non-existent restoration jobs and lack of licenses for large projects.
• Massive press coverage and investigations follow; ZZZZ Best collapses as investors panic.

Money Laundering, RICO, and Sentencing

[49:33–59:07]

• Police raids reveal the insurance restoration side was a front for laundering organized crime profits.
• ZZZZ Best insiders indicted on a laundry list of charges: racketeering, securities fraud, money laundering, embezzlement, mail fraud, tax evasion, and bank fraud.
• Minkow’s sentence: 25 years in prison, $26 million restitution. (But he serves only 7.)

Barry’s “Redemption” and More Scamming

[59:07–74:33]

• Barry becomes a born-again Christian & pastor after early release.
• Starts the “Fraud Discovery Institute” as a government fraud-buster.
• Laci: “So you became a snitch when you found Jesus?... If thy neighbor do crime, none of thy business!” (62:32)
• Minkow pivots to making money as an anti-fraud expert and soon faces insider trading charges—he just can’t quit!
• Diagnosed with an epic list of mental/behavioral disorders (including migraines)—which he tries to use as partial legal defense.
• Even as a pastor, keeps doing scams: opening unauthorized credit cards in church members’ names, stealing donation money, and pitching scammy “redemption” movie investments.

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3. Streamer of the Week – Bruce Bagley, the Academic Money Launderer

[75:06–77:31]

• Professor Bagley, an international crime expert, is arrested for laundering millions out of Venezuela while skimming commission for himself.
• Laci: “Maybe we need to be looking at these experts because you know how to do it… you get to learn how much technology the government actually has and what they.”
• Ronnie: “To be on the inside, being like, ‘I won’t get caught’—and also they trust me. No, that’s not…”

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Notable Quotes & Comic Highlights

• Laci: “Scamming is real, Ronnie.” (33:03)
• Ronnie: “This is so much work to be like… to go public, set this walkthrough, audition actors… why don’t you do something real?” (32:36)
• On 1980s scamming: “A beautiful time to scam! No internet, no FaceTime. If it’s in San Fernando and you’re operating in LA, I can just bring the books to you—and also books that are cooked.” (34:43)
• On church fraud:
  • Laci: “He was applying for credit cards in church members’ names… leading his flock into bad investments. When you preaching, you getting up like: ‘The Lord hath told me that gold is up…’” (68:41)
• On endless scamming: “Can’t stop. Won’t stop. Yeah, until they take me to jail, I can’t stop. Won’t stop.” (73:43)

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Key Timestamps

• [02:22] – Listener scam confession (“Tina Marie” food fraud)
• [15:34] – Historic Hoodwinks segment kicks off
• [18:04] – Introduction to Barry Minkow and ZZZZ Best origins
• [24:08] – Check-kiting explained, early business pains
• [29:12] – Ponzi scheme goes public, massive risk-taking
• [39:34] – ZZZZ Best’s public image vs. reality
• [42:13] – The homemaker’s investigation “with time”
• [49:33] – Collapse, raids, and criminal revelations
• [59:07] – “Redemption” arc: Barry as pastor, snitch, and anti-fraud consultant
• [68:41] – Church scams and ridiculous pastor grifts
• [75:06] – Streamer of the Week: Professor Bruce Bagley’s academic laundering

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Episode Takeaways

• Big message: Scammers often don’t know when to quit—greed and ego are their undoing.
• Fraud can scale from the drive-thru to Wall Street—but the essential techniques (persistence, boldness, opportunism) stay the same.
• Expert scammers rarely reform. “Once a scammer, always a scammer.” Even redemption can be another hustle.
• Never underestimate a petty person with time and a phone book. They can change the course of scam history.

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Listen if you love:

• Comedic true crime that spotlights fraud rather than violence
• Deep dives into 1980s Wall Street excess
• Church and nonprofit scams
• Buddy-cop style riffing on the world's most colorful con men

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As the Scam Goddess says: Stay schemin’!

Transcript

[Lacey Mosley]

What's a booster? Somebody that steal clothes from a store and sell at a discount price. It's like community service.

[Ronnie Adrian]

I Love Boosters is the must see movie of the summer. Starring Peke Palmer and Demi Moore in a crazy heist comedy set in the cutthroat fashion world.

[Lacey Mosley]

The Velvet Gang, they're boosting from my stores.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Critics are hailing I Love Boosters as wildly hilarious and outrageous, provocative and really fun.

[Lacey Mosley]

Come on, let's take all of it.

[Ronnie Adrian]

I Love Boosters.

[Commercial/Announcer]

Rated r. In theaters May 22nd.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Get tickets now.

[Commercial/Announcer]

America's best network just got bigger. Switch to T Mobile today and get built in benefits the other guys leave out. Plus our five year price guarantee. And now T Mobile is available in US Cellular stores. Best mobile network based on analysis by Oogle of Speedtest Intelligence data 2H 2025. Bigger network. The combination of T Mobile's and US cellular network footprints will enhance the T Mobile network's coverage price guarantee on talk text and data exclusions like taxes and fees apply. See t mobile.com for details.

[Lacey Mosley]

What's poppin, congregation? It's your girl, Lacey Mosley, AKA Scam Goddess. Welcome to an episode of Fraud Fridays where we release older episodes from the Scam Goddess vault. That's right, Fraud Fridays is where we bring back your favorite episodes from behind the Paywall. Enjoy this episode from behind the Paywall. And as always, stay scheming. Scams, Cough. Robbery and Frau. Scams C. Robbery and Fraud. Scam Goddess. Welcome back, congregation, to another edition of Scam Goddess. It's me, your girl, Lacy Mosley, AKA Scam Goddess. And I'm here with. Oh, gosh, I'm so excited, guys. I know I say that every week, but I really am excited, and this is gonna be a fascinating episode for sure. I'm here with. Oh, my God, Ronnie Adrian. Yes. I had to do that.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Yeah. What's up, everybody? Not the person who actually makes the beats, by the way. I want y' all to be like, oh, shit, she got him on there.

[Lacey Mosley]

I got. Oh, my God, Ronnie on the show. No, just go with it, Ronnie. Go with the scam.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

Oh, man. All right. So how the show works is I start with a segment called what's Hot and Fraud? Which is where we warn our listeners about what's hot and fraud, or we give them tips for scams. Guys, if you have any scams that you've retired, hit us [e-mail], but only if they're retired, because remember, say it with Me. We don't want to fuck up your back. All right. Wonderful. Yeah. So this scam comes from. What am I going to name this person?

[Ronnie Adrian]

Person.

[Lacey Mosley]

Okay. I'm gonna call you Tina Marie. Like the singer?

[Ronnie Adrian]

Like the singer, yes. Yeah. Okay.

[Lacey Mosley]

Portuguese Love. Okay.

[Ronnie Adrian]

And that's the song that you sing.

[Lacey Mosley]

That's one of my favorite Tina Marie songs.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Okay. All right.

[Lacey Mosley]

I supposed to do square biz.

[Ronnie Adrian]

I mean, that's a choice. Maybe you could do the line from Fire and Desire.

[Lacey Mosley]

If you a real Tina Marie fan, then you know about Portuguese Love. Okay.

[Ronnie Adrian]

All right.

[Lacey Mosley]

Okay. Tweet me if you know about Portuguese Love.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Oh, man, I can't wait to see those four tweets.

[Lacey Mosley]

Right? Oh, you so rude. Don't disrespect Tina like that. Put some respect on Tina name. So Tina says, hi, Lacey. I wanted to write to tell you about a scam I pulled off numerous times in college. I was super broke and love to eat. Don't we all? Don't we all love to eat? I do it every day. Yeah, I try to, but also wanted to spend my small income and nights out at the bar. So she was like, these coins are for 99 bananas. Captain Morgan. What's the other? Ratchet collar drinks? Fucking fireball.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

What's some other terrible shit that I ingested in college? Ooh, Four Locos. I had a friend who would make four loco margaritas. And this is before they regulated Four Locos. This is when it was killing people. So it was like a Four Loko ice margarita mix and tequila.

[Ronnie Adrian]

God, that's crazy.

[Lacey Mosley]

Why?

[Ronnie Adrian]

That's too much.

[Lacey Mosley]

That's horrible.

[Ronnie Adrian]

That's too much. I remember my friends. Cause I don't drink. But all my friends, like, once we discovered alcohol, like, at the end of high school and into college age, everybody when they would drink, I was like, oh, man, all my friends suck drunk. You know, Like. And I just remember being like, oh, okay. Like. And it'll be funny up until a point. Cause, you know, like, it's always funny with your friends, but it's to the point where it's like, all right, now you're getting annoying, you know? So, yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

Oh, no. Me and my friends were the funnest drunk people ever. And I didn't really drink a lot. I didn't drink in high school. I didn't. I drank in college, but not really until, like, my sophomore year. And we would drink, like, on the weekend if there was a party. Like, we were fricking nerds. But we had some wild Ass times.

[Ronnie Adrian]

I mean, Lacy, you had wild times now.

[Lacey Mosley]

What are you talking about? I mean. No, the times now. The times now are pretty wild. Okay, I'm not like.

[Ronnie Adrian]

You hung it up.

[Lacey Mosley]

No, no, no, no. I actually picked it up. I picked it up.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Now Lacey's still in the game. LeBron James, 17.

[Lacey Mosley]

I am not the LeBron James of drinking.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Don't do that. Ain't missed a step.

[Lacey Mosley]

I hate you so much. All right, so obviously, Ronnie and I have known each other for a while. Okay? So she was trying to spend her coins on that drink, honey. Understandable. I once went through a fast food drive thru and they forgot to put a burger in my bag. So I told them, and they gave me a new burger, no questions asked. A light bulb went off. Oh, I love it. What do we take. What do we say about scams, guys? Opportunity. And when you realize that there's an opportunity for scamming, just gotta take advantage.

[Ronnie Adrian]

And that's the whole saying. I thought you about to stop at opportunity. I was about to be like, okay, opportunity.

[Lacey Mosley]

I mean, truly, it is opportunity, but

[Ronnie Adrian]

you can say that about anything. Anyway, go ahead.

[Lacey Mosley]

So I started going to all these fast food places, and I would say something like, hey, I was just here, and you guys forgot to put blank in my back. And it worked. And every damn time. One time I did get caught, though, it was at a frozen custard place. Okay, see, that's why Tina got a little bit crazy.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Tina got a little bit overzealous.

[Lacey Mosley]

Don't get greedy, y'.

[Ronnie Adrian]

All.

[Lacey Mosley]

Okay, Stick to the drive throughs, girl. Now you pulling up at the soft serve show. You pulling up at a. What's a custard place? I can't even think of one. Yogurt land. Yeah. You trying to go to yogurt land with the scam. That's too much. Also, yogurt land is a place where you can just get free shit anyway. You get a little baby cup, get two of them joints, and you just go over there and eat all the yolk you want.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Okay, I don't. Okay. I mean, that's. Hey, I'm just saying. I'm on scam goddess, y'.

[Lacey Mosley]

All. So. So she says she tried at a frozen custard place. She said she called and told them that her husband had forgot to get her Oreo milkshake. Could I come down and get it? She said I wasn't married, though. But I thought saying husband would sound more believable, I guess. You know what? It does sound more believable.

[Ronnie Adrian]

I mean, yeah, that sounds good.

[Lacey Mosley]

Husband. When you say husband, that sounds like financial security. That sounds like you don't need to steal a milkshake from yogurt land.

[Ronnie Adrian]

And also, like, men are dumb. So they're like, oh, and your husband, of course, they always do that.

[Lacey Mosley]

Right.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Okay. Men be forgetful. Yeah, they be forgetful as hell, right?

[Lacey Mosley]

So she said, I even went as far as to put a ring on my finger to further the scam. I love you so much, Deana Marie. You are putting on costumes to steal a milkshake, sis.

[Ronnie Adrian]

This is good. This is good.

[Lacey Mosley]

She said the manager said that he'd been there all day and never got an order for an Oreo shake. So he said he didn't think the order came through. I got the feeling he was on to me. I was like, oh, well, maybe he forgot to order it. But I was too scared. So she said once she had the pushback, she got too nervous to do it anymore. Love the pie. Been telling everybody about Theron. Oh, thank you so much. Very nice things at the end. All right, Tina Marie, what do you think about this?

[Ronnie Adrian]

I mean, I love that the fact, like, generally, like, he was onto the scam probably the way it sounds and it's a custard place. So he probably was very nice about it. But that being like, the ending of her scam, like, oh, no, this is. Oh, it's too getting too hot. I gotta stop. It's getting too hot now. It's like. I think you probably could have kept going if you wanted to.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah, you could just keep going to drive throughs. Boo. Just go to drive throughs. But see, that's what happens when you scam is, like, when something gets good, you start trying to push it further. And if you're a good scammer, know when to stop or to move on to a new type of scam. You know what I mean? Like, you have to have a diverse portfolio as a scammer. You can't just have one thing in your bag because you'll exhaust it.

[Ronnie Adrian]

So you saying that Tina Marie, she had her food scam, but she should have upgraded to something else, or is it still have to deal with food?

[Lacey Mosley]

I think that she could have kept scamming food. She just needed to move into it. Like, so basically she could have kept scamming food. She also maybe could have scammed drinks. What if she started going to the bar and, like, ordering, like, a cocktail and then being like, this is nasty. And, like, bring, like, a little bottle of water, fill it back up after she drank it. I haven't tried that, but that seems like it would be a decent scam. I used to bartend. I would just throw the drink out and make you another one.

[Ronnie Adrian]

I mean, and two drinks for free. Lacey giving you free game right now? She giving y' all free game to try.

[Lacey Mosley]

But Tamarie, I think if she had kept doing the drive thru, she would have been fine. But I think she got too bold with it. Like, you going to. You calling a custard place. You are calling a custard place. Put it on a wedding ring, driving down there. And also, I think this would have worked May. I don't know if it worked if it was a woman either.

[Ronnie Adrian]

I mean, well, what the. The manager.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Okay, well, maybe. But at the same time, if she called and asked them, hey, my husband left, you know, whatever. The Oreo shake. Yeah, can I come down and get it? And somebody had to be like, yeah, you know what I mean? Somebody had to be like, yeah, okay. For her to be like, all right, I'm take the trip. So rather somebody said it, and then rather they was like, I'll let the manager handle it. Or the manager was there, and he was like, I just want to see this person's face. I want to see. I want to see if they got a trustworthy face.

[Lacey Mosley]

So the manager's either a huge hater and very petty and was like, yeah, come on down. Yeah, we got your husband's milkshake. We sure do. Get on down here. I'll hand spin it again. And then he got down there and was like, look here, bitch,

[Ronnie Adrian]

I'm on to you, truly. If he did that, I'm giving him points. If he was like, oh, hell yeah. Come on down and get this milkshake. This Oreo milkshake. Hung up the phone and was like, I ain't had no Oreo milkshake all day. I'm about to flame this bitch.

[Lacey Mosley]

I feel like it must have been a slow day in the yogurt shop, because otherwise it truly doesn't make any sense. Because also, she says she was scared in this moment. Why would you be scared? Just be like, oh, maybe he just forgot it. He lied and told me he got it. Like, that's not a weird thing.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Yeah, like, what even happened afterwards? Cause then she had to go like, oh, he. She probably forgot to order it. And then she. Then, to cover her own lot, had to be like, all right, well, let me get one. Or just be like, he must have forgot to order it. Well, I ain't hungry for it no more, you know? Like, how you get out of that?

[Lacey Mosley]

Cause also, why didn't he come back? Why didn't the husband come back?

[Ronnie Adrian]

Yeah. Manager looking out the window like, oh, so is your husband in the car or is this you?

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah, the manager was asking too many questions. She was like, yeah, so what does your husband look like? How tall about is your husband? Does he have a beard? Show me a picture. No, it sounds like this manager was petty. Yeah, because he could have just. Come on. Now. That milk costs you what? It costs you nothing. Cause you the manager.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Hey, man, it's a custard place. They probably, like. They not like a big corporation like McDonald's or, like Burger King or something. So they like. We keep inventory of our custard and we know. Oh, if I. If I fucking turn this milkshake machine on right now, that's fucking 40 cents out the door.

[Lacey Mosley]

Imagine a custom place that keeps inventory of every single ounce of custard. Like, you come into work and they're like, hey, Tim, can you come in here? Can you come in here real quick?

[Ronnie Adrian]

Tim? Yeah, what's up?

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah, step off the floor. Take your apron off.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Oh, take it off.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Okay. I'll just keep it right here. Cause I gotta get back out there.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah, that's the thing, Tim. We're not gonna allow you back out there.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Why not? What's happening? You need me back here in the back or something?

[Lacey Mosley]

No. We've been tracking every time that you work here and every shift. We are three and a half ounces short of custard when you leave.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Now, that's impossible.

[Lacey Mosley]

No, no, no. We are.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Okay, first of all, how y' all

[Lacey Mosley]

even know that we measure okay?

[Ronnie Adrian]

I don't think.

[Lacey Mosley]

Okay, this is a hard time. So we're a small business. It's a small economy.

[Ronnie Adrian]

I get that. But it ain't me. I don't look.

[Commercial/Announcer]

I don't do.

[Lacey Mosley]

I don't know. You look like. You look like you eat three and a half ounces of custard a day.

[Commercial/Announcer]

I don't.

[Ronnie Adrian]

I don't do heavy custard pores. And I don't even touch the stuff when I'm off work. If I'm off work and I want custard, I come right up here and I buy it. I don't even get the. I don't even get the employee discount.

[Lacey Mosley]

I don't know. I feel like you're getting high on our supply.

[Ronnie Adrian]

No, never. Never that. Never that. He's sweating Sweating custard out his fucking purse.

[Lacey Mosley]

Right?

[Ronnie Adrian]

Never that. Not me.

[Lacey Mosley]

Like that's very petty. But you know what? Shout out to you, Tina Marie for getting away with it as long as you did.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

Scams.

[Commercial/Announcer]

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[Lacey Mosley]

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[Commercial/Announcer]

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[Ronnie Adrian]

Hey, everyone.

[Lacey Mosley]

Check out this guy and his bird. What is this, your first date?

[Ronnie Adrian]

Oh, no.

[Commercial/Announcer]

We help people customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual. Together.

[Lacey Mosley]

We're married.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Me to a human, him to a bird.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah, the bird looks out of your league.

[Commercial/Announcer]

Anyways, get a'@libertymutual.com or with your local agent.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty.

[Lacey Mosley]

And it's time for, you know what? My favorite segment of this podcast, His Historic Hoodwinks. I am going to regale Mr. Ronnie Adrian with a historic tale of fraud and chicanery, and we're gonna get his opinions on it throughout.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Okay. All right. This is a historic one, huh?

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah. Okay, so. And actually, this is a bit of an older one. Well, I say older, but it's, like, 1987. So, you know, sometimes we do really recent ones, like, you know, that happen this year or whatever. It's depends. Okay, so this is about Barry J. Minkow, who is a former businessman, pastor, and convicted felon. And I mean, I just love that pastor's in there, because I think that. I mean, I call this show Scam Goddess. My mom says I'm too sacrilegious. I am a Christian. I do love God, and I need to have that recorded on this podcast so that I can show God when I get up to the gate. Like, look, I know I did a lot of bad shit, but you really

[Ronnie Adrian]

think that, like, if you like God. Hold on. Before you try to condemn me, throw these headphones on and listen to an episode of my podcast real quick. And when you say, I love God, and then he hear the rest of the podcast, you gonna be like, you know what? Thank you for saying, just because you said that part, you up in here. They'll be like, yeah, but what about all.

[Lacey Mosley]

That's literally how the Bible works. They say you can just come back and be like, my bad. I love God. And then it's all done.

[Ronnie Adrian]

I think that has to be the end, though. Like, I think it's like, you have to, like, repent. Like, yeah, my bad. I love God. And then be like, all right, cool. I can't do no. Oh, fuck. Shit. I gotta, like. And then, like, you know, like. Cause they gotta be like, no, you have to start all over again.

[Lacey Mosley]

It's very clear.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Okay. You know, everybody on their deathbed is like, I love Jesus Christ, my Lord and Savior. Now get me alone. Don't make me do anything. And they just sit in the bed and they just die.

[Lacey Mosley]

They say, leave me alone.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Leave me alone. I want no more rationale.

[Lacey Mosley]

Don't make me sin.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Don't make me sin.

[Lacey Mosley]

He's like, don't bring that sexy nurse in here. Don't bring nobody who gonna make me sin. I'm fresh.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Don't make me sin.

[Lacey Mosley]

That's why the pastor come at the last rites, and it's like, you are the last person I see. Family, get out.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Yeah, don't make me sin. Don't bring that sexy nurse in here.

[Lacey Mosley]

Look, you gotta stay fresh to death. All right, so while in high school, he founded zzz. Okay, so it's four Z's and then the word best and it's pronounced Z best, which sounds like a modern day, like cough syrup rapper. They all have the letters in their names.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Modern day cough syrup rappers.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yes.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Okay.

[Lacey Mosley]

That's what I'm calling them. I feel so bad for those poor

[Ronnie Adrian]

babies who's just give me one example of trippy red. Okay, all right, all right. You know, pretty perfect.

[Lacey Mosley]

They literally sing about cough syrup in everything. I want them. I hope they stop. So an immensely successful carpet cleaning company. So Z best is a carpet cleaning company. I don't know how I'm supposed to know that they clean carpet. It is not in the title.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Yeah, if it's that many Z's, I would think like, it's some sort of like, oh, this is something that's gonna help me sleep.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah, I'm thinking like a mattress. Yeah. I'm not thinking carpet cleaning. I love it.

[Ronnie Adrian]

I'm be hella that. You show up my place like, hell y then really, really tired and they come in and start looking at my floor. I'm like, what you doing?

[Lacey Mosley]

Right? No, I don't sleep on the floor. They're like, no, we're here for the carpet. Carpet is a scam.

[Ronnie Adrian]

How?

[Lacey Mosley]

Because when you get it, then you got to maintain it. Like, just get wood anyway. However, it was actually a front to attract investment for a massive Ponzi scheme. So Z Best, the carpet cleaning company was a front to attract investment for a massive Ponzi scheme. It collapsed in 1987, costing investors and lenders a hundred million dollars. One of the largest investment frauds ever perpetrated by a single person, as well as one of the largest accounting frauds in history. My mans was in here cooking these books like they were stir fry, okay? Like, sir nigga had to walk on the books. Just a flick of the wrist on the books. A hundred million dollars.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Okay, that's a lot. That's a lot. That's a lot for a carpet cleaning company.

[Lacey Mosley]

I don't know what carpet cleaning company, you know?

[Ronnie Adrian]

Yeah, like, I mean, I get that this is a scam, but at some of those, like, for a hunt.

[Lacey Mosley]

I know, I know.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Some of you gotta be like, they gotta look. You gotta look in the mirror. Like, sometimes you gotta look at a scam and be like, this is my fault. Yeah, come on. I should have known.

[Lacey Mosley]

Like, if the from Empire show up at my house called Empire today. If they show up to my house, talking about, look, we gonna give you $100 million. I'm gonna be like, empire, you ain't clean nary enough carpets to have a hundred million dollars.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Not no way.

[Lacey Mosley]

There's no way ain't enough carpet in America for y' all to have $100 million. So Minkow was born in Inglewood, California, to a Jewish family and was raised in San Fernando Valley.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Okay.

[Lacey Mosley]

When he was nine years old. I love that he's from Inglewood.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Yeah, that's.

[Lacey Mosley]

Love it.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Beautiful, Beautiful.

[Lacey Mosley]

His mother got him a job as a telemarketer with a carpet cleaning business where she worked. So I'm gonna say that, mom, this is your fault. Your major son is scammer. And yeah, for some reason, I got a Brooklyn accent right now. You got your son a job at 9 years old? That's mad illegal. Like, my baby boy was supposed to be in school. Okay, and you got him calling. This is a joke on my TV show Florida Girls, where there's a calling center and there's an eight year old, and she's like, can I verify your credit card information? It's literally a joke on the show that I do and was doing this at nine years old.

[Ronnie Adrian]

I mean, but, Lacey, keep in mind, it's a different time.

[Lacey Mosley]

It's 1987.

[Ronnie Adrian]

That's when the scam was. Oh, you know what I'm saying? But like, before that, when he's nine years old, we don't know how old he was when he did the scam.

[Lacey Mosley]

Right. So this might be, like, in the, what, 60s? How old is Barry J. Make off? Yeah, we'll find out. So he was working as a telemarketer for a carpet cleaning business.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Okay, that's a pretty. I mean, I can understand, like, being the sweet boy at the grocery store or something, but yeah, that kind of job at 9 years old, a little

[Lacey Mosley]

bit much call people. And also, this is where I think the scam was born, because telemarketing is a scam in itself. And then carpet. So these are his two fields of. In, like, an industry since 9 years old. So he knows them well. I. I get it. So by the age of 15, while a sophomore at Cleveland High School, Minkow started Z Best. So he started this when he was 15 years old.

[Ronnie Adrian]

What year was this?

[Lacey Mosley]

Let me see. We got to figure out his age first. He was born in 66, so 1975. He was nine years old. Okay, okay, so that makes sense. In 1975, you're nine years old. That makes a lot of sense that you might be working at a call center. And no one would think that. That's bizarre.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Yeah, it's the 70s, man.

[Lacey Mosley]

Right. So at 15 years of age, he was a sophomore at Cleveland High School. And this is when he started ZZZZ best.

[Ronnie Adrian]

So that's like what, 81, 82 then.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah, you keep doing that quick math for me, real quick maths. In his parents garage with and 4 phones. My nigga got employees at 15. This is some Steve Jobs shit. Like didn't Steve start his shit in the garage? Or at least Bill Gates did.

[Ronnie Adrian]

I mean everybody do.

[Lacey Mosley]

Everybody started.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Everybody got in the garage.

[Lacey Mosley]

In the garage.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Yeah. And Barry Minkoff is no different.

[Lacey Mosley]

I started scams in the garage too.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Yeah, exactly. Scam.

[Lacey Mosley]

That's what you gotta.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Yeah, that's what he looks for when he goes up to Steve Jobs or when he went up to Bill Gates. He's like, yeah, I started scams in the garage too. Like they do the same thing. We all out here scamming them.

[Lacey Mosley]

Huh?

[Ronnie Adrian]

Right?

[Lacey Mosley]

I mean, low key Apple is scamminism was Bill Gates. So at first Minkow struggled to meet basic expenses. He was plagued by customer complaints of demand for payment from suppliers, and at times he found it difficult to make payroll. Faced with a shortage of operating capital, he financed his business via check kidding, stealing and selling his grandmother's jewelry, staging break ins at his offices and running fraudulent credit card charges. So this is when he's a bit older, because I'm like, he's not doing this at 15. So check kidding. If you don't know what that is, I don't. For our seasoned scammers, they probably know, but check kidding is a form of check fraud involving taking advantage of the float to make use of non existent funds. So in my culture, at least in my family, this was called a post dated check. And you'd be like, cash this in two weeks.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Got it.

[Lacey Mosley]

Because the money's not in there yet.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Okay.

[Lacey Mosley]

So basically in this way, instead of being used as a negotiable instrument, check checks are misused as a form of unauthorized credit. Basically meaning like here's a piece of paper that says I'm gonna pay you money, but actually I don't have the money and I'm gonna get the services that I need from you immediately. And you are not gonna get the money at all. I can't even believe checks were a thing. Check checks feel crazy. You can still write people checks. I'm talking personalized checks. Obviously, businesses are writing checks to everyone every day, but a personalized check just feels insane. I wanna grocery store and pay with a personalized check.

[Ronnie Adrian]

I mean, you can.

[Lacey Mosley]

Can you?

[Ronnie Adrian]

Yeah, I mean. I mean, it's so rare. Yeah, I. I worked at a. I worked at a Bed, Bath and Beyond, and for the longest time, I was there to. When checks was like a normal thing until when it started to transition out. And then it was rather like cash and card. I want people play with card. But it would be so jarring when somebody then, in the wild west of now, this new age, would just pull out a check. You're like, oh, how does it work again? Like, you know, like, it was just so crazy. And they don't like. And the thing about it is, most people who pay with checks don't give a shit about time or anybody behind.

[Lacey Mosley]

Of course not, because they're paying with a fucking piece of paper. That's crazy.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Every now and then somebody would be like, all right, cool. They already have it already got the name on the joint just ready for you to tell them what the amount. What the amount is not these people. You be like, all right, so your amount is this. And be like, it's what?

[Lacey Mosley]

It's what? Okay. And you said 37 cents.

[Ronnie Adrian]

I mean, shit, Lacy, you already writing right now. But they gotta pull out their purse first.

[Commercial/Announcer]

They gotta.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Okay, cool. They'll go grab and they get their check. All right.

[Lacey Mosley]

Like, they didn't know they were gonna pay me the check.

[Ronnie Adrian]

It's like you knew. It's like, oh, okay. Then you just see people behind them, just inpatient, looking around for other registers. Like, nope, just mine.

[Lacey Mosley]

Oh, my God. I wanna write hot checks. This feels like such a fun time. So this is obviously like when Minkoff's business had expanded. Cause, like, they talk in the beginning about him being 15 and working in the garage, but he's gotten older.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Yeah, I was definitely like.

[Lacey Mosley]

Cause I was like, it jumped really quickly. So he's gotten older, expanded his business. So soon after Minkov expanded into. He branched into the insurance restoration business. So now he's got the carpet cleaning company, he's got the insurance restoration business, which insurance itself is a fucking scam industry. So. Makes sense with the help of Tom Padgett. Tom Padgett sounds like a fraudster.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Wait, let me. Let me just. To get this right. So at this point when he started in this new thing, is this before or after the 87 when he broke it?

[Lacey Mosley]

No, this is all before 87. In 87, it collapsed. Okay, so he's like, this is all so.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Yeah, I mean, so truly, I mean even if this is still all later, this dude, it's like if 87, he was like what, 21. So like within this time he's still like 15 to 20 years old range. That's still like, I don't know. That's big business for a teenage kid. That's big business.

[Lacey Mosley]

He was quite young during all of this, which is crazy. But you know what, he started scamming at 9. So he's actually been in the industry for over 10 years. Tis true.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Tis true.

[Lacey Mosley]

So with the help of Tom Padgett, an insurance claims adjuster, Minkow forged numerous documents claiming that ZZZ Best was involved in several restoration projects. Padgett and Minkow formed a fake company, Interstate Appraisal Services, which helped them to get loans from banks allowing to expand across Southern California. So while most Ponzi schemes are based in like non existent businesses, Z's Best carpet cleaning division was real and won high marks for its quality. So they would actually clean carpet and so they could kind of keep the scheme up with that. However, it's Insurance Restoration division, which to me this doesn't make any sense. Like y' all are cleaning carpet and then y' all also have an insurance restoration. What? Uh huh. I mean, but you know what, Paul Mitchell makes hair products and he sells patrons. So that makes no sense.

[Ronnie Adrian]

I mean, I mean you gotta have, look, like you said earlier, you gotta have your hands in multiple scams.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yes, but they were not a part of the same company. But okay, so they decided to go public with this shit, which is crazy because they know it's a Ponzi scheme. And Ponzi schemes which we talked about. Oh, I haven't really said episode yet. So Ponzi schemes, the way they work is like people give you money, you keep their money and then when somebody else like gives you money and somebody else that you already have money from, ask for money back, you just keep recycling and giving people the same pot of money, but they're actually, you're not making any profit, you're just taking money from someone and giving it to someone else to make them feel like you've made a profit. So that's what he's doing. So he goes public with the business. Minkow took the company public in 1986, which is collapsed in 1987. So here later, like why would you go public with this?

[Ronnie Adrian]

I don't even.

[Lacey Mosley]

This is the Audacity. See, this is just like when our girl Tina Marie called the yogurt land. Like, you doing too much.

[Ronnie Adrian]

First of all, we have to give her a do. She didn't call yogurt land. That makes it sound so basic. She called a custard place.

[Lacey Mosley]

Okay, which could have been yogurt land.

[Ronnie Adrian]

No, yogurt is yogurt. Custard is different.

[Lacey Mosley]

No, it's not.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Yes, it is. Custard is like that stuff that you put in, like, donuts and stuff.

[Lacey Mosley]

Stuff. No, it's not.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Yes, it is. I have.

[Lacey Mosley]

That's a type of custard. But custard is like ice cream. That's why she was getting an Oreo milkshake. You know what? I'm not doing this with you. Yeah, I mean, tweet us and tell us it's custard. Frozen yogurt. So Mo Min Cow took the company public in 1986, garnering a spot on the NASDAQ. Bruh. This is risky. So the account who. The accountant who audited the company before it went public did not visit the insurance restoration sites himself. Had he done so, he would have discovered that they were just mailboxes located throughout San Fernando Valley. So they basically, there's no real company there. Minkow retained 53% of controlling interest, making him an instant millionaire. Going public seemingly offered him a way to cover up his fraudulent activities. So the downfall comes when accountants wanted to inspect the company's operations. Minkow borrowed fake offices for a tour of the interstate appraisal services and used an incomplete building to present a fake restoration job. So he rented some offices. Did he hire actors? Like, I feel like you have to hire actors because you don't have employees for these offices, because these offices are fake. They're mailboxes.

[Ronnie Adrian]

This is what loses me with, like, big, huge scams like this, where it is, like, what's the end goal here? Like, because I get it if it's like, well, I'm be scamming, but I'm scamming simply because I want to just live the luxury. This is luxurious lifestyle and have, like, millions and da, da, da. But it's so funny because it's one thing to be like, I'm scamming right now in the beginning, you know, because you gotta be able to get your weight up. And then by the time I'll catch up, you know, da, da, da. So therefore, my business will be legit, you know, whatever. But it's another thing to be like, man, I'm scamming. And I'm always be scamming you thinking, like, don't you know you're gonna get caught?

[Lacey Mosley]

Like, I mean, for some people, career scammers, and I think they think, like, maybe they won't get caught, or maybe by the time they get caught, they'll be too old to care. Like, Bernie Madoff was, like, oldest shit when he got caught. He lived a good life.

[Ronnie Adrian]

But was he scamming the whole time?

[Lacey Mosley]

Yes, he really was.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Damn.

[Lacey Mosley]

So he probably just thought, you know, I'm gonna keep running it up. But. But I get what you're saying, though, because it's like when rappers sell crack. Like, when. Soon as their rap careers get off, they stop selling crack. It's not like you see Jay Z on the corner, like, still selling.

[Ronnie Adrian]

I'm done with the crack. Like, I was doing the crack so I could be a rapper. Like, so that's what I was after. When I was done selling crack, I gotta go to the studio. Cause I didn't have no fire.

[Lacey Mosley]

But Jay Z was just, like, really passionate about selling crack and just, like, continued to sell crack.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Yeah, like, that's. But that's crazy. These people are so passionate about it. Like, this seems like so much work, like, to be like. Like, it's so much work to be like, I gotta go. I gotta fucking set this thing up. All right, cool. Gotta set this walkthrough. We gotta go. Gotta audition these actors.

[Lacey Mosley]

I gotta stage shotgun.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

This is the kind of job you get on backstage.

[Ronnie Adrian]

So you gonna be the person that's. You're gonna be happy to be about this place. And let me just see how you.

[Lacey Mosley]

Okay, all right, all right. You're the mail guy. So you're gonna be pushing this card around. I want you to come by. I want you to have a lot of mail on the card. Okay. Okay.

[Ronnie Adrian]

You really. So you look like you haven't ever done mail before. You know, we're gonna call you. We're gonna call you back. Got a couple more auditions. You got a couple auditions for this part? It's like, this is crazy. Like, this is so crazy. Like, you're always having to, like, write fraudulent checks and do all this stuff and then get. It's like such a. Like, that's. The scammer. Lifestyle is so crazy. Cause it's like, so much work for what? Like, if you had this. If you had this of type of, like, mind, it was like, why don't you do something real?

[Lacey Mosley]

Because this is real. Scamming is real. Ronnie.

[Ronnie Adrian]

I get this. Like, I get the idea of, like, you know what? I'm gonna go to the grocery. I'm gonna go to a grocery store, be like, yo, this apple. I don't know, like. Or even what Tina Marie did. But when it's like, all right, I'm on this big platform, and you gotta spend so much brain energy, like, all right, so I'm gonna go public. I'm gonna do this. It's like, you know, you can spend that so much time, like, actually thinking of something that's legit.

[Lacey Mosley]

Well, the weird thing is that ZZZ Best was a legitimate, profitable company. Like, if he had just stopped there instead of using it to create a Ponzi scheme. But for all we know, he could have been laundering money. You know what I mean? And when you start laundering money to a certain extent, you do become, like, a public figure, because if you get too much money, everybody's looking at you. You know what I mean? It just gets hot. I mean, he obviously had enough money to rent out buildings for fake tours and show a fake restoration job.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Who says renting out. He probably told him people being like, all right, if I can borrow this building for a couple hours, I'll clean all the carpets in here for free.

[Lacey Mosley]

ZZZZ Best will clean these carpets for the rest of your fucking life. Okay? Just give me 35 minutes and call

[Ronnie Adrian]

me the CEO for the rest of my life. As long as we're a company, we'll clean these carpets.

[Lacey Mosley]

I'll clean your carpets, your mama carpets, your cousin carpets.

[Ronnie Adrian]

But he ain't doing it. That's the whole point. He. And that's what's going. That's the scam. Cause then he go like. And then his partner was like, oh, well, we really gonna do that? He's like, I'm not gonna do that shit. I was telling him that so I can get this spot. He can clean this.

[Lacey Mosley]

Dude, no, you gotta do it, because otherwise he might out you.

[Ronnie Adrian]

How you gonna out you? Who you gonna find? He gotta find people to out him, I guess. This is 1987. This ain't Twitter age. Oh. You know what I mean?

[Lacey Mosley]

You can't just tweet.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Yeah, you can't.

[Lacey Mosley]

This is also a beautiful time to scam.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

Because you can't Tweet. You can't FaceTime. Like, you have to manually, literally go places to inspect them. So if it's in San Fernando and we're operating in Los Angeles and you're doing the accounting, I can just bring the books to you. And also books that are cooked. Like, if you. If you got. If you Cooking with the right flavor. And I'm telling you, Barry was the Emeril of books. Okay, Was it nobody Emeril Lagasse cooking books better than him. So it's like, what do you compare it to? Like. Yeah, yeah. So you're right. There is like the time period also is preventing, like, presenting challenges for him to get caught, which is beautiful.

[Ronnie Adrian]

I mean, we live in an age where like now everybody's just. I think everybody's so much more bold now. And I say that just because they know that there are so many ways for them to get caught and they still do shit, you know, Like.

[Lacey Mosley]

And that's what I love.

[Ronnie Adrian]

You know what I mean? Like, you can't. How you gonna have. You can't have like two families? Like two, three families now. Cause at some point it's being like, I'm gonna catch a.

[Lacey Mosley]

You gonna catch a Facebook poll.

[Ronnie Adrian]

You know what I mean?

[Lacey Mosley]

You're gonna be in the back of the back.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Then like. Like back then people as late as like, what? 99 people was like, man, I can just do whatever. I got a family in Phoenix. Then I come home in Los Angeles. And nobody would never attack the street.

[Lacey Mosley]

They would have them on the same street.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Like, this shit is crazy.

[Lacey Mosley]

And you're so right about that because, like, there was literally someone did a Yelp review that went viral about a restaurant and they took a photo of like their food or some crazy situation in the restaurant. And then someone commented under the Yelp review and was like, thank you so much for writing the scathing review. Because my husband's in the back of this photo with another woman and I just caught him and it's like, not fake.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Oh, shit.

[Lacey Mosley]

So like, you can't even be cheating out here.

[Ronnie Adrian]

I'll be cheating in the dark. You gotta be like, I wanna take you to this fancy place, this restaurant in the dark. You know, we better make a picnic

[Lacey Mosley]

in the woods at midnight at 3am

[Ronnie Adrian]

always listening for signs. Hold on. What's that? What's that?

[Lacey Mosley]

What's that? Why do we always have to meet by flashlight?

[Ronnie Adrian]

I just want a picture. Angela. Angela, that's you. Angela.

[Lacey Mosley]

Angela.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Oh, okay. Okay. We good? We good. Who's Angela? Nothing. I'm just. I don't know. It's just a name that I yell.

[Lacey Mosley]

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[Lacey Mosley]

Ask your doctor about eglis and visit eglis.lilly.com or call 1-800-lilyrx or 1-800-545-5979.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same Premium Wireless for $15 a month plan that I've been enjoying. It's not just for celebrities. So do like I did and have one of your assistant's assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today. I'm told it's super easy to [e-mail]

[Lacey Mosley]

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[Ronnie Adrian]

Last week you didn't even know her name.

[Lacey Mosley]

Sometimes people sneak up on you. Friendship. This is the most absolutely unhinged planet and I'm obsessed with it and self discovery on and off the ice. It's scary telling the world something I'm not ready for it to know. Oh, and it's pretty steamy. This is the part where I tell you all the things I want to

[Ronnie Adrian]

do to you off campus is now

[Commercial/Announcer]

streaming on Prime Video

[Lacey Mosley]

and fraud. So Minkow became the youngest person to lead the company through an ipo, which an IPO is an initial public offer. This means that the company is offering its shares for sale to the public so you can buy into this company, which is partially fake buildings. So Minkow launched a massive television advertisement. Minkoff was trying to get.

[Ronnie Adrian]

This is so. Come on, Lacey. This is so much. This is too much. This dude was doing the most.

[Lacey Mosley]

The confidence of this man. I love him so much. He launched a massive television advertising campaign portraying Z Bell Best as a carpet cleaner that Southern Californians could trust. Now, technically, you could trust the carpet cleaning. So by February 1987, ZZZ Best was trading at $18 a share on the NASDAQ. That's pretty good. Valuing the company at 280 million of them things.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Whoa.

[Lacey Mosley]

Minkow's stake was worth a hundred million. So he has like almost half of it. That's crazy. Then almost as rapidly as Z Best rose, it fell due to the credit card fraud several years earlier. Minkow blamed the fraudulent charges on immoral contractors and another employee and paid back most of the victims. So remember back in the day, he was running scan, he was writing hot checks, he was doing credit card fraud. He was selling his nana's jewelry, honey. Like, but you know what? After I saw the Titanic, like, sell your nana's jewelry because she threw that stone in the ocean, I said, jump in there and get that back. What's wrong with you? And also, you murdered Jack. So why are you trying to throw some jewelry down there? For my. He didn't want to get on. She was like, there's no room. She should have offered. She was so raggedy. So, yeah, sell your grandma jewelry. Honestly, that the Titanic really ruined it for Grandma's. After that, I stopped fucking with grandma. So he paid the women, or not the women, but the people back for, you know, the fraudulent charges on the credit card things that he had done. However, he had not paid back a homemaker who had been overcharged a few hundred dollars. Okay, let's see how this weighs in. So Minkow ignored the woman's request to pay her back. So the woman tracked down several other o. You cannot scam somebody with time, guys. All a petty if. If you ever hear this phrase in your life, I got time. You better fix whatever that situation is and immediately. Because when people have time and they are petty, they will ruin you.

[Ronnie Adrian]

I bet you this woman was like older too. Like, because I'm pretty sure, like, he probably was like, oh, if I scam these old ass people trying to work, I'm like, yo, yeah, here's, you know, I do the carpet.

[Lacey Mosley]

He's been doing grandma scams for a while. He robbed his grandma.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Yeah. So he's like, what to call it. And this old woman was like, they don't know how I do my due diligence, right?

[Lacey Mosley]

He was like, I don't even pay my own granny back. Like, if Memaw can't get the coins back, bitch, like, you're out of luck.

[Ronnie Adrian]

He like, well, Meemaw ain't me. So I'm gonna see you. I'm see you again. Don't worry. I'm gonna be over to see you. Don't worry about that.

[Lacey Mosley]

So this woman tracked down several other people who had been defrauded by Minkow and gave a diary of her findings to the Los Angeles Times. I remember this is the 80s.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Like, what's super crazy about this is being like this. Cause we even understand about time. Like today, once again, so different. Like, in order for her, she had to do so much legwork to find these things.

[Lacey Mosley]

She had to use a phone book.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Probably this is. She did. She did that thing.

[Lacey Mosley]

A thick phone book.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Like, this ain't like, right now. Where you be like, all right, I'm going to couple people DMs. I see. I've seen a couple people comment and

[Lacey Mosley]

just be like, yo, tweet me. If this also happened to you.

[Ronnie Adrian]

I'm going to eclipse to college. I'm going to see people who also making comments on. Yep, I'm going to hit them up like, yo, you got a problem. Da, da, da. So on and so forth. Like, this woman had to be like, all right, I'm starting from scratch.

[Lacey Mosley]

So she said, give me the. What was it called? The Bell. The. What's the phone book called? It's called the Saltin Bell. Yeah. So she had to go get the White Pages and the Yellow Pages.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Man, I wish they had a name for it.

[Lacey Mosley]

And shut up. I can't think of the name of the phone book. It was something with a bell in it. Y' all tweet me names of phone books. I only saw a phone book as a child. Okay, but. So she had to get the phone book. And then I don't even know how the fuck you find people who have been affected by the company.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Exactly. Where you even start?

[Lacey Mosley]

Robo Dot?

[Ronnie Adrian]

Where you even start?

[Lacey Mosley]

Like, are you just like, hey, hello?

[Ronnie Adrian]

I mean. Cause that. That means, like, even then, you gotta get, like, some sort of person to give you information, to give you leads, to go contact people.

[Lacey Mosley]

She had to get leads.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Yeah. So it's like, who you. Where do you start from? With this? But she was like, is she, like,

[Lacey Mosley]

waiting outside of the ZZZ Best Company every day. Like with like sandwiches and like just paper scattered everywhere and like binoculars and

[Ronnie Adrian]

seeing people storming out, being like, okay, that person look mad. They look mad.

[Lacey Mosley]

Okay, okay, I'm gonna get them.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Let me go. Let me go see what's going on. Like, this is crazy for a few hundred bucks. She was like, oh my gosh, she really needed that money. Rather she needed that money or it's a principal thing.

[Lacey Mosley]

I think it was a principality. It was the principalities of the issue. Because if you have this much time, like you did not need that money. So then she writes a diary. Sis is out here. You know, most people are writing about their emotions and their diary.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Her.

[Lacey Mosley]

She was in here like March 24, 1987. I still haven't seen a dime from Z Best. I called and he told me to off old lady everybody.

[Ronnie Adrian]

It sounds like those really, really like old southern bells. Like the gentleman hasn't called the late lady. Why, why you sound this old?

[Lacey Mosley]

I was trying to give you like Morgan Freeman, Shawshank Redemption voiceover. I've been waiting outside of the Zzz Best carpet.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Now.

[Lacey Mosley]

ZZZZ Best is for eight hours every day. Sometimes Fred comes by and brings me a sandwich.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Minkow went out to a nice restaurant. All

[Lacey Mosley]

she's following him.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Is he spending my money? I think, is he spending my money?

[Lacey Mosley]

Definitely, probably.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Don't worry, I'm gonna get that back. I'm gonna get that back.

[Lacey Mosley]

I hope that she was stalking him. I hope she was like, okay, when I give it to the Los Angeles Times, I'll rip out the pages about me stalking him, but I'll leave everything else.

[Ronnie Adrian]

There's a lot of pages in this book that's ripped out. Yeah, don't worry about those. They don't matter.

[Lacey Mosley]

So this is later that day at a press conference. A reporter denoted another bomb. She had evidence that the Sacramento project didn't exist and that Z Best did not have a contractor's license required for large scale restoration work. So she found out that the building that they showed them wasn't real and wasn't theirs. And she also found out that they didn't even fucking bother to go get the permits to do the fake job that they don't do. Damn scam.

[Ronnie Adrian]

I mean, he did so much work in other areas and then just slipped up on the, on the, on the, on the small detail, the details. This is the details thing, Barry.

[Lacey Mosley]

You gotta have a secretary of scam. You gotta have somebody who's like, you know what you need? You have to hire a hater, you have to hire a hater, but they need to love you, and you need to pay them well.

[Ronnie Adrian]

So who they hating on in this scenario?

[Lacey Mosley]

Everybody else.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Okay?

[Lacey Mosley]

Because here's the thing about haters and small and small people who are petty and small, like. Like, they'll notice details like that. That's like a hater's gonna zoom in on every Instagram photo you post and check the walls and the corners to make sure that you haven't distorted the image. You know what I mean? And if you got somebody like that on your team, then check the walls. Oh, my God, they be doing that. Khloe Kardashian had to take down a picture because somebody zoomed in and was, why this piece of tile bent like this? And that's why you need to have a hater friend. And you send it to your hater friend first and you say, does this look good? And they'll be like, oh, nah, bitch. I could clearly see that this wooden bar from the banister has been warped, so you gonna have to make your booty normal size again.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Oh, my God.

[Lacey Mosley]

But he ain't had nobody like that.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Water walls look like this.

[Lacey Mosley]

So to calm nervous investors, Minkow issued a press release touting record profits and revenues, which. Sir. Okay. I mean, we have no way to prove that.

[Ronnie Adrian]

I mean, that's the way to go, though.

[Lacey Mosley]

That feels very Donald Trump to me. Like, we made a lot of money. Yeah.

[Ronnie Adrian]

I mean, record profits. And you see, he's the president.

[Lacey Mosley]

The most money ever.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Obviously, that goofy shit work. Like, you just tell people some. Like, some people gonna be like, I don't know. But other people will be like, shut up. He said, we made money. We gonna see that soon. Yeah, don't worry about it. You're gonna get that soon.

[Lacey Mosley]

It's so crazy to me that so many white people are so mistrusting of black people and will scrutinize everything we say. But then you could just say crazy, wild, vague shit, and they'll be like,

[Ronnie Adrian]

okay, yeah, don't flinch. You can't flinch, like, even in the face of, like, so much factuals. Like, that's the thing about Trump. I'll give it to him. He don't flinch. Like, he'll. You put shit, like, right in front of his face being like, nigga, this yours Own this. He's like, nah, not me. I would never do that. Then he'll move, then he'll. Then he'll change the subject. Also, why would I ever write on paper like this? Why Would I? You know, it's like, God damn. You're like, damn. Maybe he right. Like, hold on. Is we wrong about. About this? Like, don't flinch. Never will flinch.

[Lacey Mosley]

Oh, God. Oo. So July 2nd, Meow abruptly resigned for health reasons. By this time, his company stock had dropped by 81%. So I'm hoping that Meow has started selling off them shares. You know what I mean? Before, when he retired. Oh, and he retired. So I wonder if when he retired, he was like, let me get my shares of the company.

[Ronnie Adrian]

I mean, truly, we. Once again, we have to put this in perspective. Like, truly, this dude is up there giving press conferences, probably looking like a teenage boy. He is very young, right? So, like, this ain't some old man where you go like, oh, okay, cool. We can have a trust him. Like, it's like you looking at somebody being like, man, I mean, this is.

[Lacey Mosley]

Well, we didn't have high def, though. Ain't nobody have high def back then.

[Ronnie Adrian]

I mean, but I'm sure this dude still looked like, you know, like a scrappy dude in a fucking oversized suit.

[Lacey Mosley]

Don't worry, he looked like Little Rascals. Like he was two people standing on

[Ronnie Adrian]

top of each other. Yeah, they're looking crazy. Trying to tell the people, like, don't worry about it. Your money safe. It's like, how you know, you 21 years old, like, you don't know shit.

[Lacey Mosley]

And he said, health reasons. You were very young for health reasons. Okay? So two days later, the Los Angeles Pizza.

[Ronnie Adrian]

The Los Angeles Pizza Pizza department, the lapd.

[Lacey Mosley]

Man, fuck the lapd. Two days later, the LAPD raided Z's best headquarters and Minkow's home and found evidence that the company was being used to launder drug profits for organized crime, which I pretty much suspected in the beginning. So basically, the restoration company that they had no permits for, that was a shell company. So there's like a ton of different ways to launder money, and it's all very complicated. And sometimes we Google how to launder money. There's like.

[Ronnie Adrian]

I mean, not now, though. We just wrote off the dome. This is right off Lacey's dome right now.

[Lacey Mosley]

No, I googled out a laundry money because, like, layering, then there's placement, and then there's integration. And that's super fucking vague, but it's because you can do it in lots of different ways. So in this particular way, my man's Barry was using his fake company, the one that did restorations with no permits and no buildings, as a shell company. So it was just A front. So basically, all the drug money that was coming in, he could clean by saying that they were profits from this fake company that did not actually do anything. It only existed on paper and mailboxes. Because, remember, this is really the auditor's fault. But who audited my man's before they went public because he ain't want to drive to San Fernando Valley. So he never discovered that it was just mailboxes.

[Ronnie Adrian]

This is tight. So. So. So for all you do boys out there listening to this scam, this scam got his podcast, right? You out there making it. You out there on the streets trying to feed your family, making your dough. Nobly, of course. And it's not for flossing. It's for you. You gotta feed your family. And so you make. So you got a ton of. And it's like, all right, well, I. I gotta be able to learn this. So get your homie, get him to give like a. Like a car cleaning business. Like a. You know, like, that's what we love. That's. We love that shit. That interior joints. And we do that. That shit ain't real. We know it ain't real, but.

[Lacey Mosley]

Oh, my God, what if every car cleaning business is a drug front?

[Ronnie Adrian]

Oh.

[Lacey Mosley]

Cause we know Laundromats are.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Yeah. I mean, what if every car cleaning business. I mean, not every, but I would, like 70% of them probably are, you know, 70.

[Lacey Mosley]

I'm gonna say the same for laundromats. My old LA owned a laundromat and he was very chill about when my roommates would pay their rent. And I was like, that's. Cause he don't need that money. And he was always in Mako. He was always in Mako. So, you know, we put the facts together.

[Ronnie Adrian]

That's right.

[Lacey Mosley]

I mean, and that's why I loved him. I think that's why we got along, is. Cause we were both scammers. And we knew it.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Hey, game, peak game. Give me the money when you can.

[Lacey Mosley]

Also, he was so nice that I'm like, he definitely murdering people. Cause everybody thinks murderers are probably like these grim, scary people. I think it's the people who look gentle and, you know, and they're gen. Cause it's like, I'm good to you till you're not of use to me anymore. Until you cross me.

[Ronnie Adrian]

I can see that.

[Lacey Mosley]

I could so see my last landlord just being like, all right, man, it was nice working with you. We don't need your services anymore. And then he just leaves. And the guy's like, murder the Guy

[Ronnie Adrian]

that's like,

[Lacey Mosley]

I see that this is crazy.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Also, I also would love to point out the fact that when I and Lacy said it, she was like, yeah, that's why he didn't trip with my roommates didn't pay their bills on time. Like, she didn't throw herself in there. She was like, I always pay mine on time. She didn't want to throw herself in there. She know she was late. You know, you've been late.

[Lacey Mosley]

She wasn't, you know, you've been late. The reason that we didn't get evicted, when one of my roommates, and this is the reason I live alone, she like didn't pay her rent for three months while I was shooting. And I came back and I was like, I want to upgrade the apartment because I came back with a little money. And my landlord was like, oh yeah, we could totally do that, but first you have to pay the rent. And I was like, wait, what? He was like, first you got to pay the rent. He was like, yeah, I was actually about to evict you guys. He sent me the paper forms of how my roommates had. Because we sent it all individually how they had neglect. They had been late on rent for like two years. And then like, we're really pushing it now. We're like doing like multiple months without paying rent.

[Ronnie Adrian]

I mean, first of all, that's a good ass landlord because you know, most of the time if it's being like, all right, cool. I see that y' all three people,

[Lacey Mosley]

that's why I thought he was.

[Ronnie Adrian]

But y' all gonna be paying, y' all gonna have to give it to me all at once.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah.

[Ronnie Adrian]

And I'm not gonna be like going to you for yours and you for yours and you for yours.

[Lacey Mosley]

Right.

[Ronnie Adrian]

So that man, he was really. Damn it, that's really nice.

[Lacey Mosley]

He was so sweet. But obviously I think that's cuz he had other business to attend to. He was like, I gotta go back.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Yeah, he probably had ultim old other tenant places, other landlords, businesses.

[Lacey Mosley]

He had shell companies and books to cook. You know, he had other going on.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Yeah, he was over there going to LA Cordon Blue, trying to get his book.

[Lacey Mosley]

His.

[Ronnie Adrian]

His books cooking going on, right?

[Lacey Mosley]

Oh yeah. He says like a certified like three Michelin star book cook. That's what I. That's one of my goals. So yeah, of course they. The police are up on it. So. Minkow and 10 other ZZZ best insiders were indicted by Los Angeles Federal Grand Jury January 1988 on 54 counts of racketeering, securities fraud, and money laundering. Ooh, and embezzlement. Wait a minute. Also mail fraud. Don't stop the beat now. Tax evasion. Ooh. And also bank fraud.

[Ronnie Adrian]

He was doing a lot. He was doing a lot.

[Lacey Mosley]

They hit him with the. They hit him with everything.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Yeah, he did. They was like, we ain't letting none of your things slide. Every last one of them.

[Lacey Mosley]

Also, though, if you have 10 people who are implicated in this crime, I'm a little disappointed that they. None of them thought to get you a contract, like a fake contract for your fake company. Like, nobody thought to make your fake company whole. Y' all couldn't build one building.

[Ronnie Adrian]

I bet you, like, you couldn't restore

[Lacey Mosley]

one joint just for the culture.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Well, he the head, so I'm pretty sure, like, everybody. I'm pretty sure he probably ripped off them as well. Probably, like, less like they got to eat and shit. But, like, they was like, damn, I ain't even. You know what I'm saying? Like, he probably was also doing them dirty. Cause he like the man.

[Lacey Mosley]

I feel like if you have a sous chef in your kitchen and they see you cooking the books, like, your sous chef has to learn to cook as well. Like, when you go on vacation, like, the sous chef gotta run the restaurant still.

[Ronnie Adrian]

I mean, I think you can know if it's like. I think you gotta look at the time that everybody, like, you know, if everybody got lesser times, that means that.

[Lacey Mosley]

So let's see. So on December 14, he was found guilty on all of them things.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Oh, shock.

[Lacey Mosley]

They came in and they said, racketeering, guilty. Security is fraud. Guilty. Money laundering, guilty. Embezzlement, guilty. Mail fraud, jail time, tax evasion.

[Ronnie Adrian]

And every time they would. He like, standing there, they're like, okay, but not this one, though. Damn. All right, what's the next one? Damn. Okay. All right. Oh, y' all can't get me on this one. No, y' all ain't got no. Damn.

[Lacey Mosley]

They're like, bank fried. Get the cuffs like, they gave. They threw the book at my man's.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Yeah, dude, they threw the phone book. Yeah, but they threw the phone book, whatever that is. The bell. They threw the Southern Bell phone book at the man.

[Lacey Mosley]

So in March 1989, he was sentenced to 25 years in prison, placed on five years probation, and ordered to. To pay 26 million of them things in restitution. Now he was worth a hundred million. He did retire, right? Two days before he got arrested. I wonder if he had pulled. If he had liquidated his stocks. I wonder how much money he had. We don't know. And he got 25 years, bruh. You know, life is wild. Amber fucking Geiger got five fucking years for shooting a man in his own goddamn home. But this man got 25 years in prison because he plagued y' all m.

[Ronnie Adrian]

I mean, but to be fair to the situations, he probably played a bunch of white people.

[Lacey Mosley]

You're right.

[Ronnie Adrian]

You know what I mean? If Amber Gaga walked up in that house and shot a nice Mr. Rogers, like, white man, you know what I mean?

[Lacey Mosley]

While he was putting. He was changing his sweater and he

[Ronnie Adrian]

was putting on one shoe, you know what I mean? Like, she probably would have. I don't know.

[Lacey Mosley]

She would have got more time.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Yeah, she probably would have got at least 10.

[Lacey Mosley]

And she definitely would have got no hugs from the family. I'm not gonna answer this.

[Ronnie Adrian]

That's not what the scammers want to hear.

[Lacey Mosley]

They don't want to hear that. And, you know, that's dark. That's dark. We try to keep it light. But I am just like, this sentence seems heavy. And he is white. I'm abdicating for him.

[Ronnie Adrian]

I mean, he got 25 years, but I'm pretty sure 25's too heavy. He probably didn't do them. He probably wouldn't do all 25.

[Lacey Mosley]

I hope not. Or I hope it was at, like, a really nice prison with, like, a golf course, massages, and acupuncture.

[Ronnie Adrian]

I mean, if I know my man's Minkow, don't worry. He was living good up in there. He was doing okay.

[Lacey Mosley]

Also, he's young as hell, so he's gonna probably not serve all 25. He'll probably get out in his late 30s, early 40s.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

He'll still have a full life.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Yeah, he was doing. He was doing all right in there. He was. Every now and then, get some filet mignon to come in there. He was scamming in jail. He knew how. He know how.

[Lacey Mosley]

So I'm sure he just got some money tucked away in some offshores.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Oh, come on. He has to.

[Lacey Mosley]

But what's crazy is also, like, he was laundering for a drug front, but they didn't murk him.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Probably because he didn't rat. That's probably why he went to college. Like, when you don't rat, you alone?

[Lacey Mosley]

Very. You a real one?

[Ronnie Adrian]

Yeah. Okay. All right. You didn't say nothing, huh? Okay. All right. I know a guy. I know a guy in jail that can probably watch over you. Go see Fell Fat Tony. He'll be able to tell you.

[Lacey Mosley]

So while in prison, Minkow had become a born again Christian. Hallelujah. During his prison stay, he became involved in a Christian ministry, completing coursework through Liberty University School's lifelong learning. All right. After Min Cow's early release from prison in 1995, like, we. Yeah, he didn't do that time.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Not at all. That ain't even close.

[Lacey Mosley]

Wait a minute. He went to court in 1988, bro, he did seven years.

[Ronnie Adrian]

He didn't even do hair. He wasn't.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah, he's still spry.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Yeah, he. He was hella good. He was like, I'm still. I ain't even 30 yet. Like, I'm out here balling. I ain't even 30 yet. Look at me.

[Lacey Mosley]

So then he goes to work as a pastor of evangelism at a church at Rocky Peak in Chatsworth, California.

[Ronnie Adrian]

All right, now hold on. Before you continue to read, I just want to point out the fact I right now am waiting for this other you to drop. I don't trust it. I don't trust it.

[Lacey Mosley]

You don't think he really found out?

[Ronnie Adrian]

I don't trust it.

[Lacey Mosley]

You think he went in there, he was like, God, is that you?

[Ronnie Adrian]

He was like, oh, this a. It's a new hustle. Okay.

[Lacey Mosley]

We all know the church is a fantastic hustle.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Some of them are.

[Lacey Mosley]

Some of them now. But some are good churches. I'll keep. If I don't say that, my mom will get mad at me, cuz she's sick of my. She's one of her churchgoing friends. Listen to me being like. She's like, I raised you.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

So in 1997, he became the pastor of Bible church in San Diego.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Community Bible Church.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah. All right. And also in 1995, he wrote a firsthand account of Z Best Scam. Clean Sweep. That's what the book is called. And all of the. He should have just called it Z Best Scam.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Like Clean Sweep. I was like, but it's carpet, though.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah. That don't make no sense.

[Ronnie Adrian]

If it was horrible, you do that.

[Lacey Mosley]

You know what, though? Clean Sweep sounds better as, like a scam marketing book. Because I didn't know about ZZZ Best. I probably wouldn't pick that shit. I didn't know what I was reading.

[Ronnie Adrian]

I just mean that Clean Sweep, it sounds tight until you get to the logistics of you being like, oh, that shit don't even make no sense. It's not even close. You don't sleep the carpet.

[Lacey Mosley]

Clean vacuum.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Yeah, I know. I get it. It works perfectly but when you think about it, it's like, oh, this shit don't even go.

[Lacey Mosley]

Suction.

[Ronnie Adrian]

It didn't sound tight.

[Lacey Mosley]

That sounds like a Zane book, like an erotic novel. Suction.

[Ronnie Adrian]

I laid her down on the dirty ass carpet.

[Lacey Mosley]

All right, all right, sir. So all of the book's proceeds went to repaying his victims.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Oh, okay. Yeah, because obviously he didn't have that money. I don't know. I don't got the money offshore. He don't got the money.

[Lacey Mosley]

So soon after his arrival, a church member. So this is when he starts the community Bible church. Soon after his arrival, a church member asked him to look into a money management firm in nearby Orange County. Suspecting that something was amiss, Minkow alerted federal authorities who discovered it was a 300 million dollar pyramid system scheme. Wait a minute, Barry. So you became a snitch when you found Jesus? I be reading a good book. And it don't say nothing about snitching. It say, love thy neighbor.

[Ronnie Adrian]

I get that.

[Lacey Mosley]

If thy neighbor doing do crime, none of thy business.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Okay, well, but also think about like this. He could be like, all right, this time to get back in their good graces, I'mma snitch on these cats. Get them in my gr. Like, like, hey, damn, look at that.

[Lacey Mosley]

Wipe some of that restitution out.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Like, come on, man. Like, I just told him this thing. Like, yeah, y' all can trust me.

[Lacey Mosley]

And then you are so right.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Laying the groundwork to take advantage of him later.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yes.

[Ronnie Adrian]

I mean, he could be smart. Let's see. Let's see, Barry. Let's see.

[Lacey Mosley]

So this was the beginning of a fraud discovery institute, a for profit investigation firm, which eventually transpired. I'm not even gonna say that I'm gonna save the last part. So he basically starts a business where he is detecting fraud for the government because he has done fraud.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Not.

[Lacey Mosley]

Oh, okay, right. So he soon attracted the attention of the media and began appearing on TV as a fraud expert. Several Wall street investors liked what they saw and they sent him enough money to go after bigger targets. So now the people he scammed on Wall street are like, giving him money to go find other scammers. So Minkow claimed to have uncovered a billion dollars worth of fraud over the years. Minkow almost always held a position in stocks on which he reported, however, stated that while his lawyers advised him the practice was legal, it was probably unethical. So now he's like kind of getting into ethics and he's getting into like money laundering, drug fronts, businesses like this. So several Companies have sued Minkow for making false accusations against them and most of which have been settled outta court. So he probably raked up like a bag snitching on companies. Then some companies was like, we not even doing fraud, bruh.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Bruh, we over here, we legit over here, bruh. This is crazy.

[Lacey Mosley]

Probably snitched on every laundry company, company he ever saw. Anytime he drove past a washing pole,

[Ronnie Adrian]

he called the feds. Yeah, this don't look good over here.

[Lacey Mosley]

And he was probably right 70% of the time. So some of the Washington Posts were like, damn, we not actually doing crime. So one month after Minkow learned that he was the subject of a criminal investigation, he announced to his attorney that he was pleading guilty on one count of insider trading. So remember he was going to figure out companies like if they were doing fraud, checking their books, things like that. Also he had specific stock intel because that's on what he was basically reporting the most because his fraud, even though it had to do with money laundering with his shell company. He also defrauded Wall street, the nasdaq and so he's basically going and specifically looking at stocks. So he was using this information while he was fraud detecting to do insider trading. He couldn't stop doing crime.

[Ronnie Adrian]

He couldn't, he couldn't. I mean this was a, a lower scale. Like cuz he definitely like oh okay, like this one. He probably was like this is so damn easy. Like they throwing this right into my lap, right?

[Lacey Mosley]

They're literally paying me to come in here, look at inside information and then I can go use it.

[Ronnie Adrian]

I ain't gotta hire no, I ain't gotta hire no fake company. I ain't gotta make no commercials.

[Lacey Mosley]

I don't have to get on bagsthitch.com and craigslist and Backpage. I don't have to do mail fraud.

[Ronnie Adrian]

I don't gotta get like 10 of my homies in this. I can just. It's just, this is just me. This is tight.

[Lacey Mosley]

This is fantastic.

[Ronnie Adrian]

This is crazy.

[Lacey Mosley]

So me Kau claims not to know at the time that he was breaking the law, which is my favorite excuse. He said, oh, you mean I can't go look at a company's reports and stocks and then use that information to purchase said stocks.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Oh man, this is the first time hearing about this.

[Lacey Mosley]

Also, he's still pretty young so maybe people will believe him.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

In a pre sentencing evaluation, Mekow was diagnosed as having antisocial personality disorder. Disorder narciss. Wait, this is a long list. So Minkow was diagnosed with having Antisocial personality disorder, narcissistic personality disorder, attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, anxiety disorder, opioid dependence, anabolic steroid abuse. Okay. And he was diagnosed with migraine headaches. Okay, sorry, Barry. The headaches is really what everything else on here. I hate mental health shaming. I think these are all legitimate. I know they are. But you go tell the judge you had headaches and that's why you did insider training.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Like, you don't understand.

[Lacey Mosley]

Like, it's just the et cetera wasn't working, so I had to start insider trading.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Have you, Judge, have you ever had a bad migraine? Like, I got them all the time. Like, I can't even.

[Lacey Mosley]

And that's why I have to break the law.

[Ronnie Adrian]

I have to break the law. Health stuff ain't easy. It ain't easy. I could get into health care.

[Lacey Mosley]

Like, what? So two months later, it emerged that officials within the church had accused Minkov of running a fraud discovery institute with church funds applying for credit cards in the name of church members.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Is he still doing. Is he still patron at this time, by the way? All right, okay, Barry. All right. They got to find this stuff and also be like, all right, but I gotta get this sermon. I gotta get the sermon pop up for Sunday. All right, Barry. Okay.

[Lacey Mosley]

Man, you are a busy man, Mary.

[Ronnie Adrian]

At your, at your community Bible church. That's not even. They know the denomination. It's like, what church is this? It's a Bible church.

[Lacey Mosley]

You know, they trying to get everybody's money.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Yeah, he like, man, I, I, I don't. Nobody, whoever. Baptist Presbyterian, like the Bible.

[Lacey Mosley]

We ain't doing no denomination.

[Ronnie Adrian]

You like the Bible?

[Lacey Mosley]

He said, we're not even non denominational. Okay. We just all denominational.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Y' all believe Jesus. Jesus is Lord. Come on in, Come on in.

[Lacey Mosley]

We got something fun. So he was still running the church at the time and applying. What was really sending me is that he was applying for credit cards in church members names. That's why he was doing that. Yes. And he was leading his flock into bad investments. Sir. So when you preaching on Sunday, are you getting up like, hello, everyone. Thank you. Thank y' all so much for coming out here today. The Lord hath told me that gold is up.

[Ronnie Adrian]

King Midas.

[Lacey Mosley]

Like, is this Ernest and Young or is this a church?

[Ronnie Adrian]

I don't even, like, honestly, I don't even believe. I don't believe he wrote it. Ever Wrote a sermon. I would say I believe he probably went to other churches, like night churches or like a church on a Wednesday. And then stole everybody sermon and then just went to church and gave them that.

[Lacey Mosley]

You're right.

[Ronnie Adrian]

I would believe that 100%.

[Lacey Mosley]

So one woman says that Minkof asked her for $300,000 purportedly to help finance a movie about his redemption. Sir, if my pastor ever asked me for $300,000. Hey, Sam, do you mind saying after church?

[Ronnie Adrian]

Yeah, yeah. What's going on?

[Lacey Mosley]

Hey, hey, hey.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Hey. How you doing? Hey, Pastor. Hey, great ser, by the way.

[Lacey Mosley]

Oh, thank you so much.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Sounds so fresh. Fresh and original.

[Lacey Mosley]

Absolutely. You know, I've been noticing that you. You look real blessed these days. Oh, are those Balenciagas?

[Ronnie Adrian]

Oh, yes, these. Oh, yes, of course. These are. It's been a hard.

[Lacey Mosley]

And that's a Rolex watch.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Yeah, my grandma died and like, she left me with a lot of money. I didn't realize she had as much money as she did. And, you know, I've been spurging just a little bit to kind of make myself feel bad.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah. The Lord taketh and the Lord giveth. And the Lord instructed ye to giveth as well.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I gave elections.

[Lacey Mosley]

Did you tithe?

[Ronnie Adrian]

Yeah, I gave elections.

[Lacey Mosley]

Did you give 10% of your grace grandma's money?

[Ronnie Adrian]

I wouldn't say 10 pastors, but I gave more than I usually get.

[Lacey Mosley]

Let's do 10. But how about we give it to me. Is it as an investment in a blessing?

[Ronnie Adrian]

An investment for what?

[Lacey Mosley]

Pastor, you will help me anoint the silver screens of this great nation.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Oh, okay. How much money?

[Lacey Mosley]

$300,000.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Okay, Pastor, I got to be honest. I know a little bit about movies. That movie about to be trash then $300. 300? That's not enough to make a good movie. You talking about shot on the iPhone in the 90s? Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

Okay, so he admitted to embezzling over $3 million in donations to community Bible church. Why is he asking for $300,000 if he's embezzled 3 million, what is he spending his money on?

[Ronnie Adrian]

I mean, that's the thing I'm learning about business stuff. And like, guess what? When you even have money, you don't spend your own money. Like you. You spend other. You spend like the banks money other. He. Like. I don't spend my own money. I don't. The rules to this. I've been scamming since I was nine years old. I know the rules to this.

[Lacey Mosley]

He has been scamming since he was 9. So he opened unorth unauthorized bank accounts on the church's behalf, forged signatures on the church's checks. Diverted money from church accounts to his personal use and charged unauthorized personal experiences on church credit cards.

[Ronnie Adrian]

This dude just stop.

[Lacey Mosley]

Massages on Jesus, cars on Jesus. Put everything on Jesus. Among his victims were a widower who gave $75,000 to fund a supposed hospital in Sudan to honor his wife after she died of cancer, and a woman who gave Minkoff $300,000 that would have otherwise gone to help raise her teenage granddaughter.

[Ronnie Adrian]

This dude really sold somebody, yo, give me some money, and I'm. And I'm gonna go build a hospital in the Sudan. I feel like this nigga just turned the globe and was like, the Sudan. That's what I'm gonna say. The Sudan.

[Lacey Mosley]

A place I know you'll never fucking go.

[Ronnie Adrian]

You ain't never going to the Sudan. Oh, my God.

[Lacey Mosley]

So that's sad. He did it for his late wife, so I feel bad for him.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Yeah. Oh, he.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah, that's so sad.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Yeah. No jokes on you, my man. I'm sorry about that, man. Sorry for your loss. Sorry for your loss.

[Lacey Mosley]

Okay, so in June 2014, Minkow reached an agreement with the federal prosecutors that called for him to pay $3.4 million in restitution, again on top of his $26 million restitution. So he. The book must not have done that well because it did not not pay off his 26mil. As a result of his last sentence, Minkow was released June 6, 2019. My man's just got out. Oh, T. Glizzy. First day out. So it looks like they may be doing a film adaptation.

[Ronnie Adrian]

I mean, this is all interesting.

[Lacey Mosley]

And actually, they did so following his release, it was cancelled. Like, so they were going to actually do a film adaptation.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Okay.

[Lacey Mosley]

And it was canceled when he got arrested. So then the film was retitled Con man, and the original title was Minkow. And it was. Was a. It was released in March 2018. Con Man.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Con Man. And it's about him, though.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Huh?

[Lacey Mosley]

Everybody go out, watch Con Man.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Go watch Con Man.

[Lacey Mosley]

It's probably on Amazon.

[Ronnie Adrian]

I mean, Netflix. I don't know. This is so interesting and compelling. Like, and he got all them diseases and all that stuff. Like, so it's just. Just like. I can feel like he just like, yeah, I can see that. The notion that he just like, look, man, I scammed once, and I just can't stop at that. I can't stop scamming. I'm. I'm gonna keep going. I'm gonna keep. I'm gonna put credit cards in people names. I'm gonna ask people for Money that I shouldn't be asking. I'm gonna be doing all this on top of the fact that I'm getting. I'm getting the bag also doing the fraud shit. Like, but I can't stop getting money. Like, if people gonna give me this money, I can't stop taking it from them.

[Lacey Mosley]

Can't stop. Won't stop.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Yeah. Until they take me to jail, I can't stop. Won't stop till they send me to jail.

[Lacey Mosley]

And then they keep letting him out. He went. He did a bid this time, though, because he got out in 2019. So he did a bid.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Yeah. And I guarantee you right now, like, he like, you know what, man? I can't scamming again. Yeah, exactly. They already thinking. He like, all right, man, what's a scam? That's not going to get me in jail? You know, I'm just. I know what I'm going to do. I'm going start. I'm going to start going and scamming food. Getting this free food first. Well, let me go in here. First of all, I'm hungry. Let me go to this McDonald's real quick and tell them they didn't get my McChicken sandwich.

[Lacey Mosley]

Oh, he's gonna start. He's gonna go all the way down to Tina.

[Ronnie Adrian]

He gonna go down. Yeah, he gonna go to Tina Reeve.

[Lacey Mosley]

I was gonna say he'll start washing cars.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Barry ain't gonna.

[Lacey Mosley]

Cause he can clean money with that, too.

[Ronnie Adrian]

He ain't washing cars. He already. He gonna figure out a way to, like, get in on somebody else's car washing business. Like, hey, you know what? I can really help you expand your business. I'm really good at this.

[Lacey Mosley]

Into crime.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Yeah. And they.

[Lacey Mosley]

You like crime? All right, guys. Oh, I hate this part. And I have to let Ronnie go know. Yeah, it's been wonderful.

[Ronnie Adrian]

This has really been very interesting. I learned a lot. And I think I want to go home and try to read more up on money laundering. Not to do it.

[Lacey Mosley]

I am, too.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Not to do it. But just to be honest, just to

[Lacey Mosley]

know the specifics of each type of money laundering, just to know.

[Ronnie Adrian]

It's crazy. You watch so many. I've seen so many movies where that is a crime that people are accused of. And I'm just like, yeah, okay, cool. But you really don't really know the intricacies of it.

[Lacey Mosley]

No, they're not putting it out there. I gotta get on the dark web. So the scammers. The streamer of the week is Bruce Badgley. This is the segment of the show, where we honor one charlatan that's really worthy of our praise. And this week, it's Bruce Bradley. A university professor seen as an expert on organized crimes and the drug trade has been arrested for allegedly laundering millions of dollars. Really stayed on theme with this episode. So he was an expert, but then he also was doing the laundering. So the professor of international relations at the University of Miami is accused of helping launder $300 million of dirty money from Venezuela while skimming about 300,000 for himself. Other reports say that the total involved is 2.5 million, which he's accused of receiving from bank accounts in Switzerland. Always scammy to have a Swiss bank account, and they were the proceeds of bribery and embezzlement in Venezuela. So the U.S. attorney said in a statement that Badgley, who was held on Monday and retained about 10% as commission. He's charged with two counts of money laundering and one count of conspiracy to commit money laundering. Badgley is 73 and considered one of the foremost experts in the field. He wrote the 2015 book Drug Trafficking, Organized Crime, and Violence in Today's America. The academic has previously worked and consulted with the FBI as well as the US State Department and the dea. So maybe we need to be looking at these experts because you know how to do it. I mean, also, I think that's dope, because you could give the government just enough tea, but you don't have to give them all the teachers the tricks. You save the new for yourself. And then also, you get to learn how much technology the government actually has and what they.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Yeah, I mean, that's a crate. Like, to be on the inside. Like, that's also a form of boldness, to be on the inside, being like, all right, cool. And I'm scamming on the inside of me. I'm like, and this is so foolproof. I can't. I won't get caught. And also, they trust me. Like, how do they. Like, no, that's not.

[Lacey Mosley]

They'll never even be looking into you while they're like, oh, man. Bruce showed up today looking real clean. Is he driving a Rolls Royce? I thought he was a professor. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm tenured.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Yeah. I'm 10. I'm old. I've been living saving money for a long time.

[Lacey Mosley]

I saved my money my whole life.

[Ronnie Adrian]

My whole life. I thought I was splurge. Finally, you know what else I'm gonna do with it? It's like, all right, bro.

[Lacey Mosley]

I feel like at 73, if he helped y' all catch all these people. Y' all can't make him go to jail for this. Like, let my man's go.

[Ronnie Adrian]

I mean, yeah, he probably. That's what he probably thought, too. He probably. Probably pulled up in the room being like, bruce, they can do this to us.

[Lacey Mosley]

Bruce, they fucking know him. They come like, oh, Mike. Bruce. Like, you know how they got him, too? They probably didn't even, like, arrest him. They were just like, let's just let him show up for work today. Let's let him show up to work today. Bruce, you're going to have to give us your key card.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Why? What happened?

[Lacey Mosley]

I'm getting fired. No, you're going to federal prison.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Oh, that don't sound right.

[Commercial/Announcer]

Right.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Why? No, I didn't do that.

[Lacey Mosley]

No, look, I investigated myself. I definitely didn't do that.

[Ronnie Adrian]

I investigated myself. I investigated myself. I came out clean. I investigated myself, and I came out clean.

[Lacey Mosley]

Oh, man. Ronnie, this has been fantastic.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Yeah, this is a really interesting and enlightening show.

[Lacey Mosley]

I don't know if you're being sincere.

[Ronnie Adrian]

I really am. I am. I was literally. I didn't know what this was, and I came into this and then was like, oh, okay. This is very interesting.

[Lacey Mosley]

Well, Ronnie, where do you want be found?

[Ronnie Adrian]

Oh, I guess you can find me on the Gram Bones, Adrian. I'm also on Twitter, but who cares? I'm never on it. Oh, yeah, I perform at the Upright Citizens Brigade Theater. UCB Theater. I got a show there every Saturday, 10:30, and every second Friday at 10:30.

[Lacey Mosley]

And what are the names of those shows?

[Ronnie Adrian]

One is called Make It Hot with My Team White Women. And the other one, Saturdays, is Let's Party with the the Dragons.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yes. All right, guys. And as always, you can find [e-mail], send us your scams. Make sure they're retired. Or if you've been scammed and you want to share, please let us know. We also love sharing that with the congregation. Guys, you can find our podcast at Scam Goddess Pod on Twitter and on Instagram. And you can find me at D I V A L A C I Diva Lacy on all platforms. All right, congregation, stay scared, scheming.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Hey, I'm Paul Scheer.

[Lacey Mosley]

I'm June Diane Rayfield.

[Ronnie Adrian]

And I'm Jason Mantzoukas.

[Commercial/Announcer]

And we're the hosts of how did this Get Made?

[Ronnie Adrian]

A comedy podcast where we deconstruct, make

[Commercial/Announcer]

fun of, and celebrate the best worst movies ever made.

[Ronnie Adrian]

Have you ever seen a movie that's so bad that it's actually good. That's what we're talking about.

[Lacey Mosley]

From blockbuster franchises and made for TV

[Commercial/Announcer]

romances to bonkers 80s action flicks and obscure sci fi musicals, we cover it all.

[Ronnie Adrian]

You can find. How did this get made? Wherever you get your podcasts. And don't forget to follow the show

[Commercial/Announcer]

so you never miss an episode. Idiot.

[Lacey Mosley]

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