The Crooked Carpet Cleaner with Ronnie Adrian

Summary

Scam Goddess: "The Crooked Carpet Cleaner" with Ronnie Adrian

Release Date: February 4, 2020
Host: Laci Mosley
Guest: Ronnie Adrian

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Episode Overview

This episode of Scam Goddess is a deep-dive into the wild career (and ongoing shenanigans) of scam artist Barry J. Minkow, a.k.a. the “crooked carpet cleaner.” Host Laci Mosley and comedian Ronnie Adrian take the congregation on a hilarious ride through Minkow’s jaw-dropping Ponzi schemes, scams in fast food drive-thrus, money laundering, and the wild world of fraud—all while riffing on the audacity of scammers, the importance of knowing when to quit, and the fumbled ethics of “reformed” crooks.

The episode flows through:

• "What's Hot in Fraud?" listener-scam story
• The main scammer profile: Barry Minkow & ZZZZ Best
• Tangents on scamming, laundering, pettiness, and the sheer boldness of criminals
• A closing nod to a new “Scammer of the Week”
  All with a tone that's irreverently funny, improvisational, and full of quick-witted banter.

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What's Hot in Fraud?

Listener Scam: Tina Marie's Free Drive-Thru Meals
[00:59-09:42]

• Laci reads a scam tip from a listener, “Tina Marie,” who conned fast food chains in college to get free food by lying that items were missing from her order.
• She pushed her luck at a frozen custard place—putting on a ring and pretending her “husband” forgot her Oreo shake—but the manager caught on, ending her scam career.
• Both hosts share college drinking stories and riff on the audacity (and logistics) of pulling off petty scams.

Notable Quote:
"Laci: 'What do we say about scams, guys? Opportunity...and when you realize there’s an opportunity for scamming, gotta take advantage.'" — [04:36]

Ronnie on when to quit:
“You gotta have a diverse portfolio as a scammer. You can't just have one thing in your bag because you'll exhaust it.” — [07:16]

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Historic Hoodwink: Barry J. Minkow and ZZZZ Best

[12:12–68:03]

Childhood Origins of a Crook

• Born 1966, Minkow started as a telemarketer for a carpet cleaning company at age 9 (!). Laci and Ronnie joke about the legality and inspiration such an early job provides for a future criminal.
• By 15, Minkow started ZZZZ Best—ostensibly a carpet cleaning business—out of his parent's garage, with multiple phone lines.

Quote:

“Telemarketing is a scam in itself. And then carpet…so these are his two fields of, in like, an industry since 9 years old. So he knows them well. I get it.” — Laci [18:06]

The Ponzi Machine—ZZZZ Best

• The company started legit, but soon Minkow used check-kiting, credit card fraud, stealing family jewelry, and staging break-ins to finance business shortfalls.
• He created a fake firm (Interstate Appraisal Services) with an insider, Tom Padgett, to forge documents for bogus insurance restorations.
• Important Point: The carpet cleaning was real; the “insurance restoration” business—a big part of the scam—was fake.

Quote:

"My man's was in here cooking these books like they were stir fry, okay?" — Laci [16:02]
“Sometimes you gotta look at the scam and be like, this is my fault. Come on. I should have known.” — Ronnie [16:17]

Audacity: From Scam to IPO

• In 1986, Minkow took ZZZZ Best public on NASDAQ (while still a Ponzi scheme), making himself an instant millionaire on paper—its market cap hit $280 million.
• Auditors didn’t inspect the operations; “restoration sites” were just rented mailboxes and empty buildings staged for fake tours.

Quote:

"Laci: 'This is the audacity. See, this is just like when our girl Tina Marie called the yogurt land. You doing too much.'" — [25:33]

Collapse, Takedown & Investigative Pettiness

• A small-dollar overcharge to a persistent homemaker led her to investigate Minkow; she delivered a diary of his fraud to the L.A. Times.
• Laci and Ronnie riff on the detective work required before the internet, comparing it to Yelp and social media sleuthing today.

Quote:

"If you ever hear this phrase in your life, life, I got time—you better fix whatever that situation is and immediately." — Laci [36:19]

Legal Reckoning

• When journalists revealed ZZZZ Best’s projects (and contractor’s license) were fake, Minkow tried to stem panic with fake “record profit” press releases.
• He resigned “for health reasons,” but was soon raided by the LAPD, leading to grand jury indictments for racketeering, securities fraud, money laundering, embezzlement, mail fraud, tax evasion, and more (54 counts).
• Sentenced to 25 years but served only 7; ordered to pay $26 million in restitution.

Quote:

“They hit him with the—they hit him with everything.” — Ronnie [50:00]

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Act II: Minkow’s Supposed Redemption

[54:04–68:03]

• After prison, becomes a "born again" Christian pastor; launches the Fraud Discovery Institute, snitching on other fraudsters (sometimes while holding financial positions in the same stocks).
• Gets caught—again—for insider trading and running scams within his church, including opening lines of credit in members’ names and embezzling millions.
• Admitted to a laundry list (pun intended) of mental health and addiction diagnoses; each played as a comic riff by Laci and Ronnie.
• Latest scam involved conning parishioners for phony charity schemes and “movie about his redemption.”
• Film adaptation of his life, Con Man, released in 2018.

Quotes:

"Laci: 'He couldn’t stop doing crime.'” [59:37]
“If people are going to give me this money, I can't stop taking it from them. Can't stop, won't stop.” — Ronnie [68:03]

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Thematic Tangents & Banter Highlights

• On the attraction of scamming:
  “Like, it’s so much work to be, like, I gotta set this thing up...You can spend that much time thinking of something legit.” — Ronnie [29:24] Laci: "Because this is real. Scamming is real, Ronnie." [29:46]

• On laundering businesses:
  “What if every car cleaning business is a drug front? ...I’m gonna say the same for laundromats.” — [46:41]

• On the need for haters:
  “You have to have a hater friend. And you send it to your hater friend first and you say, does this look good?” — Laci [42:17]

---

Scammer of the Week: Bruce Bagley

[69:26–72:14]

• Laci honors Bruce Bagley, a university professor and expert on organized crime arrested for laundering $2.5–$300 million for Venezuelan officials, while skimming $300,000 for himself—all while consulting for the FBI, State Dept., and DEA.
• Discussion on how “experts” end up perpetrating the very things they’re supposed to study.

Notable Quote:

“Maybe we need to be looking at these experts, because if you know how to do it...you could give the government just enough tea, but you don’t have to give them all the tricks.” — Laci [70:44]

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “The scammer lifestyle is so crazy. Cause it’s, like, so much work for what? ...If you had this type of mind, why don’t you do something real?” — Ronnie [29:24]
• “Scamming is real, Ronnie.” — Laci [29:46]
• “All of the book’s proceeds went to repaying his victims.” — Laci, on Minkow’s Clean Sweep memoir [56:13]
• “If my pastor ever asked me for $300,000...That movie about to be trash, then, $300? That’s not enough to make a good movie!” — Ronnie [64:39]

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Episode Structure and Timestamps

| Segment | Topic/Story | Key Time | |---------|-------------|----------| | What's Hot in Fraud? | Listener's food scam (Tina Marie) | 00:59–09:42 | | Historic Hoodwinks | Barry Minkow & ZZZZ Best long-scam | 12:12–68:03 | | Scammer of the Week | Professor Bruce Bagley | 69:26–72:14 |

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Conclusion & Tone

The episode is a comedic, no-holds-barred exploration of the life and recurring crimes of Barry Minkow, blending true crime with improv, commentary on ethical gray areas, and real-life lessons: namely, know when to quit your scams, don’t get greedy, and never underestimate the power of a persistent petty person with time.

Final sendoff:
Laci urges listeners to send in their (retired!) scams and reminds the audience:
“As always, congregation — stay schemin’!”

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For more laughs and detailed scam breakdowns, check out the full episode wherever you get your podcasts!

Transcript

[A]

Scams C. Robbery and Frauds. Scams cos. Robbery and fraud. Scam Goddess. Welcome back, congregation, to another edition of Scam Goddess. It's me, your girl, Laci Moseley, AKA Scammer Goddess, And I'm here with. Oh, gosh, I'm so excited, guys. I know I say that every week, but I really am excited, and this is gonna be a fascinating episode for sure. I'm here with. Oh, my God, Ronnie. Adrienne. Yes. I had to do that.

[B]

Yeah. What's up, everybody? Not the person who actually makes the beats, by the way. I want y' all to be like, oh, shit, she got him on there.

[A]

I got. Oh, my God. Ronnie on the show. No, just go with it, Ronnie. Go with the scam.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, man. All right, so how the show works is I start with a segment called what's Hot and Fraud? Which is where we warn our listeners about what's hot and fraud, or we give them tips for scams. Guys, if you have any scams that you've retired, hit us [e-mail], but only if they're retired, because remember, say it with me. We don't want to fuck up your back. All right, Wonderful. Yeah. So this scam comes from. What am I going to name this person? Okay, I'm going to call you Tina Marie. Like the singer?

[B]

Like the singer.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah. Okay.

[A]

Portuguese Love.

[B]

Okay. And that's the song that you sing.

[A]

That's one of my favorite Tina Marie songs. Okay.

[B]

All right.

[A]

We're supposed to do square biz.

[B]

I mean, that's a choice. Maybe you could have did a line from Fire and Desire.

[A]

If you're a real Tina Marie fan, then you know about Portuguese Love.

[B]

Okay. All right.

[A]

Okay. Tweet me if you know about Portuguese Love.

[B]

Oh, man, I can't wait to see those four tweets. Right?

[A]

Oh, you so rude. Don't disrespect Tina like that. Put some respect on Tina name. So Tina says, hi, Lacy, I wanted to write to tell you about a scam I pulled off numerous times in college. I was super broke and love to eat. Don't we all? Don't we all love to eat? I do it every day.

[B]

Yeah, I try to, so.

[A]

But also wanted to spend my small income and nights out at the bar. So she was like, these coins are for 99 bananas. Captain Morgan. What's the other? Ratchet collar drinks. Fucking fireball.

[B]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

What's some other terrible shit that I ingested in college? Ooh, four Locos. I had a friend who would make four loco margaritas. And this is before they regulated four Locos. This is when it was killing people. So Four Loko ice margarita mix and tequila.

[B]

God, that's crazy.

[A]

What?

[B]

That's too much.

[A]

That's horrible.

[B]

Too much. I remember my friends because I don't drink. All my friends, like, once we discovered alcohol, like, at the end of high school and into, like, college age, everybody, when they would drink, I was like, oh, man, all my friends suck drunk. Like, you know, like, and. And I just remember being like, oh, okay. Like, and it'll be funny up until a point. Cause, you know, like, it's always funny with your friends, but it's to the point where it's like, all right, now you're getting annoying, you know? So. Yeah.

[A]

Oh, no. Me and my friends were the funnest drunk people ever. And I didn't really drink a lot. I didn't drink in high school. I drank in college, but not really until, like, my sophomore year. And we would drink, like, on the weekend if there was a party. Like, we were fricking nerds. But we had some wild ass times.

[B]

I mean, Lacy, you had wild times now. What you talking about?

[A]

I mean. No, the times now. The times now are pretty wild.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

I was like, you hung it up? No, no, no, no. I actually picked it up. I picked it up.

[B]

Now. Lacey's still in the game. LeBron James. 17 years. Still strong. Going strong.

[A]

I am not the LeBron James of drinking.

[B]

Don't do that. Ain't missed a step.

[A]

I hate you so much. All right, so obviously Ronnie and I have known each other for a while, okay? So she was trying to spend her coins on that drink, honey. Understandable. I once went through Drive through and they forgot to put a burger in my bag. So I told them, and they gave me a new burger, no questions asked. A light bulb went off. Oh, I love it. What do we tell you? What do we say about scams, guys? Opportunity. And when you realize that there's an opportunity for scamming, it's gotta take advantage.

[B]

And that's the whole saying. I thought you about to stop at opportunity. I was about to be like, okay, opportunity.

[A]

I mean, truly, it is opportunity, but

[B]

you can say that about anything. Anyway, go ahead.

[A]

So I started going to all these fast food places, and I would say something like, hey, I was just here and you guys forgot to put blank in my bag. And it worked every damn time. One time I did get caught, though, it was at a frozen custard place. Okay, see, that's why Tina got a little bit crazy.

[B]

Tina got a little bit overzealous.

[A]

Don't get greedy, y'.

[B]

All.

[A]

Okay? Stick to the drive throughs, girl. Now, you pulling up at the soft search, or you pulling up at a. What's a custard place? I can't even. Yogurt land. Yeah, you trying to go to yogurt land with the scam. That's too much. Also, yogurt land is a place where you can just get free shit anyway. You get a little baby cup, get two of them joints, and you just go over there, eat all the yogurt you want.

[B]

Okay, I don't. Okay. I mean, that's. Hey, I'm just saying. I'm on scam goddess, y'.

[A]

All. So. So she says she tried at a frozen custard place. She said she called and told them that her husband had forgot to get her Oreo milkshake. Could I come down and get it? She said I wasn't marri, but I thought saying husband would sound more believable, I guess. You know what? It does sound more believable.

[B]

I mean. Yeah, that sounds good.

[A]

Husband. When you say husband, that sounds like financial security. That sounds like you don't need to steal a milkshake from yogurt land.

[B]

And also, like, men are dumb, so they like. Oh, and your husband, of course, they always do that. Right. Okay. Men be forgetful. Yeah, they be forgetful as hell, right?

[A]

So she said. I even went as far as to put a ring on my finger to further the scam. I love you so much, Deena Marie. You are putting on costumes to steal a milkshake, Sis.

[B]

This is good, this is good, this is good.

[A]

She said the manager said that he'd been there all day and never got an order for an Oreo shake. So he said he didn't think the order came through. I got the feeling he was on to me. I was like, oh, well, maybe he forgot to order it, but I was too scared. So she said once she had the pushback, she got too nervous to do it anymore. Love the pod. I've been telling everybody about therapy. Oh, thank you so much. Very nice things at the end. All right, Tina Marie, what do you think about this?

[B]

Um, I mean, I love that the fact, like, generally, like, he was onto the scam, probably the way it sounds, and it's a custard place, so he probably was very nice about it. But that being, like, the ending of her scam, like, oh, no, this is. Oh, it's getting too hot. I gotta stop. It's getting too hot now. I think you probably could have kept going if you wanted to.

[A]

Yeah, you could just keep going to drive throughs, Boo. Just go to drive throughs, like. But see, that's what happens when you scam is, like, when something gets good, you start trying to push it further. And if you're a good scammer, you know when to stop or to move on to a new type of scam. You know what I mean? Like, you have to have a diverse portfolio as a scammer. You can't just have one thing in your bag because you'll exhaust it.

[B]

So you saying that Tina Marie, she had her food scam, but she should have upgraded to something else, or is it still have to deal with food?

[A]

I think that she could have kept scamming food. She just needed to move into, like, so basically, she could have kept scamming food. She also maybe could have scammed drinks. What if she started going to the bar and, like, ordering, like, a cocktail and then being like, this is nasty, and, like, bring, like, a little bottle of water to fill it back up after she drank it? I haven't tried that, but that seems like it would be a decent scam. I used to bartend. I would just throw the drink out and make you another one.

[B]

Hmm.

[A]

I mean, and two drinks for free.

[B]

Lacey giving you free game right now. She giving y' all free game to try.

[A]

But T. Marie, I. I think if she had kept doing the drive through, she would have been fine, but I think she got too bold with it. Like, you going to. You calling a custard place. You were calling a custard place, put it on a wedding ring, driving down there. And also, I think this would have worked. Maybe. I don't know if it worked, if it was a woman either.

[B]

I mean. Well, what? The. The manager?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay, well, maybe. But at the same time, if she called and asked them, hey, my husband left, you know, whatever. The Oreo shake. Yeah, can I come down and get it? And somebody had to be like, yeah, right. You know what I mean? Somebody had to be like, yeah, okay, for her to be like, all right, I'm gonna take the trip. So rather somebody said it, and then rather they was like, all right, I'll let the manager handle it. Or the manager was there. He was like, I just want to see this person face. I want to see. I want to see if I can. If they got a trustworthy face.

[A]

So the manager's either a huge Hater and very petty. And was like, yeah, come on down. Yeah, we got your husband's milkshake. We sure do. Get on down here. I'll hand spin it again. And then he got down there and was like, look here, bitch,

[B]

I'm on to you, truly. If he did that, I'm giving him points. If he was like, oh, hell yeah. Come on down and get this milkshake, this Oreo milkshake. Hung up the phone and was like, I ain't had no Oreo milkshake all day. I'm about to flame this bitch.

[A]

I feel like it must have been a slow day in the yogurt shop, because otherwise it truly doesn't make any sense. Because also, she says she was scared in this moment. Why would you be scared? Just be like, oh, maybe he just forgot it. He lied and told me he got it. Like, that's not a weird thing.

[B]

Yeah, like, what even happened afterwards? Cause then she had to go like, oh, he forgot to order it. And then she. Then, to cover her own lot, had to be like, all right, well, let me get one. Or just be like, he must have forgot to order it. Well, I ain't hungry for it no more. You know? Like, how you get out of that?

[A]

Cause also, why didn't he come back? Why did the husband come back?

[B]

Yeah, manager looking out the window like, oh, so is your husband in the car or is this you?

[A]

Yeah, the manager was asking too many questions. He was like, yeah, so what does your husband look like? How tall about is your husband? Does he have a beard? Show me a picture. No, it sounds like this manager was petty because he could have just. Come on now. That milk costs you what? It costs you nothing. Cause you the manager.

[B]

Hey, man, it's a custard place. They probably, like. They not like a big corporation like McDonald's or, like Burger King or something. So they like. We keep inventory of our custard. We know. Oh, if I fucking turn this milkshake machine on right now, that's fucking 40 cents out the door.

[A]

Imagine a custom place that keeps inventory of every single ounce of custard. Like, you come into work and they're like, hey, Tim, can you come in here? Can you come in here real quick? Tim?

[B]

Yeah, what's up?

[A]

Yeah, step off the floor. Take your apron off.

[B]

Oh, take it off.

[A]

Yeah, okay.

[B]

I'll just keep it right here. Cause I gotta get back out there.

[A]

Yeah, that's the thing, Tim. We're not gonna allow you back out there.

[B]

Why not? What's happening? You need me back here in the back or something?

[A]

No. We've been tracking every time that you work here and every shift. We are three and a half ounces short of custard when you leave.

[B]

Now, that's impossible.

[A]

No, no, no. We are.

[B]

Okay, first of all, how y' all

[A]

even know that we measure okay?

[B]

I don't think.

[A]

Okay, this is a hard times. We're a small business. It's a small economy.

[B]

I get that. But it ain't me. I don't look. I don't do.

[A]

I don't know. You look like. You look like you eat three and a half ounces of custard a day.

[B]

I don't. I don't do heavy custard pores. And I don't even touch the stuff when I'm off work. If I'm off work and I want custard, I come right up here and I buy it. I don't even get the. I don't even get the employee discount.

[A]

I don't know. I feel like you're getting high on our supply.

[B]

No, never. Never that. Never that. He's sweating. Sweating custard out of his right. Never that. Not me.

[A]

Like, that's very petty. But you know what? Shout out to you, Tina Marie, for getting away with it as long as you did.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Scams C. And it's time for. You know what? My favorite segment of this podcast. Historic Hoodwinks. I am going to regale Mr. Ronnie Adrian with a historic tale of fraud and chicanery, and we're gonna get his opinions on it throughout.

[B]

Okay. All right. This is a historic one, huh? Yeah.

[A]

Okay, so. And actually, this is a bit of an older one. Well, I say older, but it's like 1987. So, you know, sometimes we do really recent ones, like, you know, that happened this year or whatever. It just depends. Okay, so this is about Barry J. Minkow, who was a former businessman, pastor, and convicted felon. And I just love that pastor's in there, because I think that. I mean, I call the show Scam Goddess. My mom says I'm too sacrilegious. I, a Christian, I do love God. And I need to have that recorded on this podcast so that I can show God when I get up to the gate. Like, look, I know I did a

[B]

lot of bad shit, but you really think that? Like, if you like God. Hold on. Before you try to condemn me, throw your headphones on and let's do an episode of my podcast real quick. And when you say I love God, and they hear the Rest of the podcast, you're going to be like, you know what? Thank you for saying, just because you said that part, you up in here. They're going to be like, yeah, but what about all.

[A]

That's literally how the Bible works. They say you can just come back and be like, my bad, I love God. And then it's all.

[B]

I think that has to be the end, though. Like, I think it's like, you have to, like, repent. Like, yeah, my bad. I love God. And then be like, all right, cool. I can't do no more. Fuck shit. I gotta, like. And then like, you know, like. Cause they gotta be like, no, you have to start all over again.

[A]

Very clear.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

You know, that's not.

[B]

That's why everybody on their deathbed is like, I love Jesus Christ, my Lord and Savior. Now get me alone. Don't make me do anything. And they just sit in the bed and they just die.

[A]

They say, leave me alone.

[B]

Leave me alone. I want no more rationale.

[A]

Don't make me sin.

[B]

Don't make me sin.

[A]

He's like, don't bring that sexy nurse in here. Don't bring nobody who gonna make me sin. I'm fresh.

[B]

Don't make me sin.

[A]

That's why the pastor come at the last rites. And he's like, you are the last person I see. Family, get out.

[B]

Don't make me sin. Don't bring that sexy nursing in here.

[A]

Look, you gotta stay fresh to death. All right? So while in high school, he founded zzz. Okay? So it's four Z's, and then the word best, and it's pronounced Z best, which sounds like a modern day, like, cough syrup wrapper. They all have the. The letters in their names.

[B]

Modern day cough syrup rapper.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

That's what I'm calling them.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I feel so bad for those four babies who's.

[B]

Just give me one example of Trippy Red. Okay. All right, all right. You know, pretty perfect.

[A]

They literally sing about cough syrup in every. Pretty perfect. I want them. I hope they stop. So an immensely successful carpet cleaning company. So ZBE is a carpet cleaning company. I don't know how I'm supposed to know that they clean carpet. It is not in the title.

[B]

Yeah. If it's that many Z's. I don't think, like, it's some sort of, like, oh, this is something that's gonna help me sleep.

[A]

Yeah, I'm thinking like a mattress.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. I'm not thinking carpet cleaning. I love it.

[B]

I'm be hella that you show up my Place like, hey, I just been really, really tired. And they come in and start looking at my floor. I'm like, what you doing?

[A]

Right? No, I don't sleep on the floor. They're like, no, we're here for the carpet. Carpet is a scam because when you get it, then you got to maintain it. Like, just get wood anyway. However, it was actually a front to attract investment for a massive Ponzi scheme. So ZZZ Best, the carpet cleaning company, was a front to attract investment for a massive Ponzi scheme. It collapsed in 1987, costing investors and lenders a hundred million dollars. One of the largest investment frauds ever perpetrated by a single person, as well as one of the largest accounting frauds in history. My man's was in here cooking these books like they were stir fry, okay? Like, sir nigga had to walk on the books. Just a flick of the wrist on the books. A hundred million dollars.

[B]

Okay, that's a lot. That's a lot. That's a lot for a carpet cleaning company.

[A]

I don't know what carpet cleaning company, you know?

[B]

Yeah, like, I mean, I get that this is a scam, but. And some of those, like for a hunt.

[A]

I know, I know.

[B]

Some of these people gotta be like, they gotta look. You gotta look in the mirror. Like, sometimes you gotta look at the scam and be like, this is my fault, come on. I should have known.

[A]

Like, if the from Empire show up at my house, call Empire today. If they showed to my house, talking about, look, we gonna give you $100 million. I'm like, Empire, you ain't cleaned nary enough carpets to have a hundred million.

[B]

Not no way.

[A]

There's no way. Ain't enough carpet in America for y' all to have $100 million. So. Minkow was born in Inglewood, California to a Jewish family and was raised in San Fernando Valley.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

When he was nine years old. I love that he's from Inglewood.

[B]

Yeah, that's love it. Beautiful, beautiful.

[A]

When he was his mother got him a job as a telemarketer with a carpet cleaning business where she worked. So I'm gonna say that, mom, this is your fault. Your major son a scammer. And yeah, for some reason I got a Brooklyn accent right now. You got your son a job at 9 years old? That's mad illegal. Like, my baby boy was supposed to be in school, okay? And you got him calling. This is a joke on my TV show Florida Girls, where there's a calling center and there's an eight year old and she's like, can I verify your credit card information? It's literally a joke on the show that I do. And he doing this at nine years old.

[B]

I mean, but Lacey, keep in mind, it's a different time.

[A]

It's 1987.

[B]

That's when the scam was. Oh, you know what I'm saying? But like, before that, when he's nine years old, we don't know how old he was when he did the scam.

[A]

Right. So this might be like in the, what, 60s? How old is. How old is Barry J. Make off? Yeah, we'll find out. So he was working as a telemarketer for a carbon cleaning business.

[B]

Okay, that's a pretty. I mean, I can understand like, being the sweet boy at the grocery store or something, but yeah, that kind of job at 9 years old is a little bit much.

[A]

Call people. And also, this is where I think the scam was born, because telemarketing is a scam in itself. And then carpet. So these are his two fields of. In like an industry since 9 years old. So he knows them well. I. I get it. So by the age of 15, while a sophomore at Cleveland High School, Minkow started Z Best. So he started this when he was 15 years old.

[B]

And what year was this?

[A]

Let me see. We got to figure out his age first. He was born in 66, so 1975. He was nine years old. Okay, okay, so that makes sense. In 1975, you're nine years old. That makes a lot of sense that you might be working at a call center. And no one would think that. That's bizarre.

[B]

Yeah, it's the 70s, man.

[A]

Right. So at 15 years of age, he was a sophomore at Cleveland High School. And this is when he started ZZZ best.

[B]

So that's like, what, 81, 82 then.

[A]

Yeah. You keep doing that quick math for me.

[B]

Real quick maths.

[A]

In his parents garage with 3 and 4 phones. My nigga got employees at 15. This is some Steve Jobs shit. Like, didn't Steve start his shit in the garage? Or at least Bill Gates did.

[B]

I mean, everybody do.

[A]

Everybody started.

[B]

Everybody got in the garage. In the garage. Yeah. And Barry Minkoff is no different.

[A]

I started scams in the garage, too.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. Scam.

[A]

That's what you gotta.

[B]

Yeah, that's what he looks for when he goes up to Steve Jobs or when he went up to Bill Gates. He's like, yeah, I started scams in the garage too. Like, they do the same thing, right? We all out here scamming them, huh? Right.

[A]

I mean low key Apple is scamming us, so Bill Gates. So at first, Minkow struggled to meet basic expenses. He was plagued by customer complaints of demand for payment from suppliers. And at times he found it difficult to make payroll. Faced with a shortage of operating capital, he financed his business via check kidding, stealing and selling his grandmother's jewelry, staging break ins at his offices and running fraudulent credit card charges. So this is when he's a bit older, because I'm like, he's not doing this at 15. So check kidding. If you don't know what that is, I don't. For our seasoned scammers, they probably know. But check kidding is a form of check fraud involving taking advantage of the float to make use of non existent funds. So in my culture, at least in my family, this was called a post dated check. And you'd be like, cash this in

[B]

two weeks, got it.

[A]

Because the money's not in there yet.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So basically in this way, instead of being used as a negotiable instrument, check checks are misused as a form of unauthorized credit. Basically meaning like here's a piece of paper that says I'm going to pay you money, but actually I don't have the money and I'm going to get the services that I need from you immediately and you are not going to get the money at all. I can't even believe checks were a thing. Checks feel crazy. You can still write people checks. I'm talking personalized checks. Obviously businesses are writing checks to everyone every day, but a personalized check just feels insane. I want to go to the grocery store and pay with a personalized check.

[B]

I mean you can, can you? Yeah, I mean, I mean it's so rare. Yeah. I, I worked at a, I, I worked at a Bed Bath and Beyond and for the longest time I was there to when checks was like a normal thing until when it started to transition out and then it was rather like cash and card. I want people play with card. But it would be so jarring when somebody then in the wild west of now, this new age would just pull out a check. You're like, oh shit, how does it work again? Like, you know, like it was just so crazy. And they don't like. And the thing about it is most people who pay with checks don't give a shit about time or anybody behind them.

[A]

Of course not. Cause they're paying with a fucking piece of paper. That's crazy.

[B]

Every now and then somebody will be like, all right, cool, they already have it. Already got the name on the joint just ready for you to tell them what the amount, what the amount is not these people. You be like, all right, so your amount is this. And be like, it's what?

[A]

It's what? Okay, and you said 37 cents.

[B]

I mean, shit, Lacy, you already writing right now. But they gotta pull out their purse first. They gotta. Okay, cool. They'll go grabbing. They get their checkbook. All right.

[A]

Like, they didn't know they were gonna pay with a check.

[B]

It's like you knew. It's like, oh, okay. Then you just see people behind them, just inpatient, looking around for other registers. Like, nope, just mine.

[A]

Oh, my God. I wanna write hot checks. This feels like such a fun time. So this is obviously like when Minkoff's business had expanded. Cause they talk in the beginning about him being 15 and working in the garage, but he's gotten older.

[B]

Yeah, I was definitely like.

[A]

Cause I was like, it jumped really quickly. So he's gotten older, expanded his business. So soon after Minkov expanded into, he branched into the insurance restoration business. So now he's got the carpet cleaning company, he's got the insurance restoration business, which insurance itself is a fucking scam industry. So. Makes sense. With the help of Tom Padgett. Tom Padgett sounds like a fraudster.

[B]

Wait, let me, let me just. To get this right. So at this point, when he started in this new thing, is this before or after the 87, when he broke it?

[A]

No, this is all before 87. In 87, it collapsed.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So he's like, this is all so.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, so truly, I mean, even if this is still all later, this dude, it's like if 87, he was like, what, 21. So like within this time, he's still like 15 to 20 years old range. That's still like, I don't know. That's big business for a teenage kid. That's big business.

[A]

He was quite young during all of this, which is crazy. But you know what? He started scamming at 9. So he's actually been in the industry for over 10 years.

[B]

Tis true. Tis true.

[A]

So with the help of Tom Padgett, an insurance claims adjuster, Minkow forged numerous documents claiming that ZZZ Best was involved in several restoration projects. Padgett and Minkow formed a fake company, Interstate Appraisal Services, which helped them to get loans from banks, allowing him to expand across Southern California. So while most Ponzi schemes are based in like, non existent businesses, Z's Best carpet cleaning division was real and won high marks for its quality. So they would actually clean carpet. And so they could kind of keep the scheme up with that. However, it's insurance restoration division, which to me, this doesn't make any sense. Like, y' all are cleaning carpet and then y' all also have an insurance restoration. What? Uh huh. I mean, but you know what? Paul Mitchell makes hair products and he sells patrons, so that makes no sense.

[B]

I mean. I mean, you gotta have. Look, like you said earlier, you gotta have your hands in multiple scams.

[A]

Yes, but they were not a part of the same company. But. Okay, so they decided to go public with this shit, which is crazy because they know it's a Ponzi scheme. And Ponzi schemes, which we've talked about. Oh, I haven't really said episode yet. So Ponzi schemes, the way they work is like, people get you money, you keep their money, and then when somebody else, like, gives you money and someone else that you already have money from ask for money back. You just keep recycling and giving people the same pot of money, but they're actually. You're not making any profit. You're just taking money from someone and giving it to someone else to make them feel like you've made a profit. So that's what he's doing. So he goes public with the business. Minkow took the company public in 1986, which is collapsed in 1987. So you're like. Like, why would you go public with this?

[B]

I don't even.

[A]

This is the audacity. See, this is just like when our girl Tina Marie called the yogurt land. Like, you doing too much.

[B]

First of all, we have to give her a do. She didn't call yogurt land. That makes it sound so basic. She called a custard place.

[A]

Okay, which could have been yogurt land.

[B]

No, yogurt is yogurt. Custard is different.

[A]

No, it's not.

[B]

Yes, it is. Custard is like that stuff that you put in, like, donuts and stuff.

[A]

No, it's not. Yes, it is.

[B]

I have.

[A]

That's a type of custard. But custard is like ice cream. That's why she was getting an Oreo milkshake. You know what? I'm not doing this with you. Yeah, I mean, tweet us and tell us it's custard. Frozen yogurt. So Minkow took the company public in 1986, garnering a spot on the NASDAQ. Bruh. This is risky. So the account. Who. The accountant who audited the company before it went public did not Visit the insurance restoration sites himself. Had he done so, he would have discovered that they were just mailboxes located throughout San Fernando Valley. So they basically, there's no real company there. Minkow retained 53% of controlling interest, making him an instant millionaire. Going public seemingly offered him a way to cover up his fraudulent activities. So the downfall comes when accountants wanted to inspect the company's operations. Minkow borrowed fake offices for a tour of the interstate appraisal services and used an incomplete building to present a fake restoration job. So he rented some offices. Did he hire actors, too? Like, I feel like you have to hire actors because you don't have employees for these offices because these offices are fake. They're mailboxes.

[B]

This is what loses me with, like, big, huge scams like this. Where it is, like, what's the end goal here? Like, because I get it if it's like, well, I'm going be scamming, But I'm scamming simply because I want to just live the luxury. This is luxurious lifestyle and have, like, millions and da, da, da. But it's so funny because it's one thing to be like, I'm scamming right now in the beginning, you know, because you gotta be able to get your weight up. And then by the time I catch up, you know, da, da, da. So therefore, my business will be legit, you know, whatever. But it's another thing to be like, man, I'm scamming. And I' ma always be scamming you, thinking, like, don't you know you're gonna get caught?

[A]

Like, I mean, for some career scammers, and I think they think, like, maybe they won't get caught, or maybe by the time they get caught, they'll be too old to care. Like, Bernie Madoff was, like, oldest shit when he got caught. He lived a good life.

[B]

But was he scamming the whole time?

[A]

Yes, he really was.

[B]

Damn.

[A]

So he probably just thought, you know, I'm gonna keep running it up. But. But I get what you're saying, though, because it's like when rappers sell crack, like, when soon as their rap careers get off, they stop selling crack. It's not like you see Jay Z on the corner, like, still selling crack.

[B]

I'm done with the crack. Like, I was doing the crack so I could be a rapper. Like, so that's what I was after. When I was done selling crack, I got to go to the studio because I didn't have more fire.

[A]

But Jay Z was just, like, really passionate about selling crack and just, like, Continued to sell crack.

[B]

Yeah. Like, it's. But that's crazy. These people are so passionate about it. Like, this seems like so much work, like, to be like. Like, it's so much work to be like, I gotta go. I gotta set this thing up. All right, cool. Gotta set this walkthrough. Gotta go backstage.

[A]

Shotgun. This is the kind of job you

[B]

get on backstage, so you gonna be the person that's. You're gonna be happy to be about this place. And let me just see how you. Okay. All right.

[A]

All right. You're the mail guy. So you're gonna be pushing this card around. I want you to come by. I want you to have a lot of mail on the cart. Okay? Okay.

[B]

You really. So you look like you haven't ever done mail before. You know, we're gonna call you. We gonna call you back. Got a couple more auditions. You got a couple auditions for this part? It's like, this is crazy. This is so crazy. Like, you're always having to, like, write fraudulent checks and do all this stuff and then get. It's like, such a. Like, that's. The scammer lifestyle is so crazy. Cause it's, like, so much work for what? Like, if you had this. If you had this of. Type of, like, mind, it was like, why don't you do something real? You know?

[A]

Because this is real. Scamming is real. Ronnie.

[B]

I get this. Like, I get the idea of, like, you know what? I'm gonna go to the grocery. I'm gonna go to a grocery store, be like, yo, this apple. I don't know, like. Or even what Tina Marie did. But when it's like, all right, I'm on this big platform, and you gotta spend so much brain energy, like, all right, so I'm gonna go public. I'm gonna do this. It's like, you know, you can spend that so much time, like, actually thinking of something that's legit.

[A]

Well, the weird thing is that ZZZ Best was a legitimate, profitable company. Like, if he had just stopped there instead of using it to create a Ponzi scheme. But for all we know, he could have been laundering money. You know what I mean? And when you start laundering money, to a certain extent, you do become, like, a public figure, because if you get too much money, everybody's looking at you. You know what I mean? It just gets hot. I mean, he obviously had enough money to rent out buildings for fake tours and show a fake restoration job.

[B]

Who says rent? He probably told him people being like, all right, if I can borrow this building for a couple hours. I'll clean all the carpets in here for free.

[A]

Zzzz. Best will clean these carpets for the rest of your fucking life.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

Just give me 35 minutes and call

[B]

me the CEO for the rest of my life. As long as we're a company, we'll clean these carpets.

[A]

I'll clean your carpets, your mama carpets, your cousin carpets.

[B]

But he ain't doing it. That's the whole point. He. And that's what's going. That's the scam. Cause then he go like. And then his partner was like, oh, you really gonna do that? He ain't gonna do that shit. I was telling him that so I can get this spot. You can clean the dude.

[A]

No, you gotta do it, because otherwise he might out you.

[B]

How you gonna out you? Who are you gonna find? He gotta find people to out him, I guess. This is 1987. This ain't Twitter age. Oh. You know what I mean?

[A]

You can't just tweet.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You can't. This is also a beautiful time to scam.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because you can't Tweet. You can't FaceTime. Like, you have to manually, literally go places to inspect them. So if it's in San Fernando and we're operating in Los Angeles and you're doing the accounting, I can just bring the books to you. And also books that are cooked. Like, if you. If you got. If you cooking with the right flavor. And I'm telling you, Barry was the Emeril of books. Okay. Wasn't nobody Emeril Lagasse books better than him. So it's like, what do you compare it to? Like, yeah, so you're right. There is, like, the time period also is preventing, like, presenting challenges for him to get caught, which is beautiful.

[B]

I mean, we live in an age where, like, now everybody's just. I think everybody's so much more bold now. And I say that just because they know that there are so many ways for them to get caught. And they still do shit, you know? Like.

[A]

And that's what I love.

[B]

You know what I mean? Like, you can't. You can't. You gonna have. You can't have, like, two families, like, two, three families now. Cause at some point, it's being like, I'm gonna catch it.

[A]

You gonna catch someone's Facebook poll.

[B]

You know what I mean?

[A]

You're gonna be in the back of the.

[B]

Back then. Back then people as late as, like, what, 99 people was like, man, I can just do whatever. I got a family in Phoenix Then I come home in Los Angeles, they would have them on, and nobody was never attacked.

[A]

They would have them on the same street.

[B]

Like, this shit is crazy.

[A]

And you're so right about that because, like, there was literally someone did a Yelp review that went viral about a restaurant, and they took a photo of, like, their food or some crazy situation in the restaurant. And then someone commented under the Yelp review and was like, thank you so much for writing the scathing review. Because my husband's in the back of this photo with another woman, and I just caught him. And it's like, not fake.

[B]

Oh, shit.

[A]

So, like, you can't even be cheating out here.

[B]

I'd be cheating in the dark. You gotta be like, I wanna take you to this fancy place, this restaurant in the dark.

[A]

You know, we better make a picnic in the woods.

[B]

At midnight at 3am always listening for signs. Hold on. What's that?

[A]

What's that? What's that? Why do we always have to meet by flashlight?

[B]

I just want a picture. Angela. Angela, that's you. Angela.

[A]

Angela.

[B]

Oh, okay. Okay. We good?

[A]

We good?

[B]

Who's Angela? Nothing. I'm just. I don't know. It's just a name that I yell.

[A]

Just a name that I yell. Insane. Robbery and fraud. So Minkow became the youngest person to lead the company through an ipo, which. An IPO is an initial public offering. This means that the company is offering its shares for sale to the public. So you can buy into this company, which is partially fake buildings. So Minkow launched a massive television advertisement Minkoff was trying to get.

[B]

Kid, this is so. Come on. Lazy. This is so much. This is too much. This dude was doing the most.

[A]

The confidence of this man. I love him so much. He launched a massive television advertising campaign portraying ZZZZ Best as a carpet cleaner that Southern Californians could trust. Now, technically, trust the carpet cleaning. So by February 1987, ZZZ Best was trading at $18 a share on the NASDAQ. That's pretty good. Valuing the company at 280 million of them things. Whoa. Minkow's stake was worth a hundred million. So he has, like, almost half of it. That's crazy. Then almost as rapidly as Z Best rose, it fell due to the credit card fraud several years earlier. Minkow blamed the fraudulent charges on Immor and another employee and paid back most of the victims. So remember back in the day, he was running scam. He was writing hot checks. He was doing credit card fraud. He was selling his nana's jewelry, honey, like, but you know What? After I saw the Titanic, like, sell your nana's jewelry because she threw that stone in the ocean. I said, bitch, you better jump in there and get that shit back. What's wrong with you? And also, you murdered Jack. So why you trying to throw some jewelry down there for my man?

[B]

He didn't want to get on. He didn't want to get on. He did what?

[A]

Want to get on. She was like, there's no room. She should have offered. She was so raggedy. So, yeah, sell your grandma jewelry. Honestly, that the Titanic really ruined it for grandmas. After that, I stopped with grandmas. So he paid the women, or not the women, but the people back for, you know, the fraudulent charges and the credit card things that he had done. However, he had not paid back a homemaker who had been overcharged a few hundred dollars. Okay, let's see how this weighs in. So Minkow ignored the woman's request to pay her back. So the woman tracked down several other. Oh, You cannot scam somebody with time, guys. All a petty. If. If you ever hear this phrase in your life, life, I got time. You better fix whatever that situation is and immediately. Because when people have time and they are petty, they will ruin you.

[B]

I bet you this woman was like, older too. Like, because I'm pretty sure, like, he probably was like, oh, if I scam these old ass people trying to work, they're like, yo, yeah, here's, you know, I'll do the carpet.

[A]

And he's been doing grandma scams for a while. He robbed his grandma.

[B]

Yeah. So he's like, what you call it? And it's. They don't know how I do my due diligence.

[A]

He was like, I don't even pay my own granny back. Like, if Meemaw can't get the coins back, bitch, like, you're out of luck.

[B]

He's like, well, Meemaw ain't me, so I'm gonna see you. I' ma see you again. Don't worry. I'm gonna be over to see you. Don't worry about that.

[A]

So this woman tracked down several other people who had been defrauded by Minkow and gave a diary of her findings to the Los Angeles Times. I remember this is the 80s.

[B]

Like, what's super crazy about this is being like this. Cause we even understand about time. Like today, once again, so different. Like, in order for her, she had to do so much legwork to find these things.

[A]

She had to use a phone book, probably.

[B]

This is like, she did that thing,

[A]

a thick phone book.

[B]

Like, this ain't, like, right now where you'd be like, all right, I'm going to a couple people. DMs. I seen, you know, I seen a

[A]

couple people comment and just be like, yo, tweet me if this also happened to you.

[B]

I'm going to call it. I'm going to see people who also making comments on. Yep, I'm gonna hit them up like, yo, you got a problem? Da, da, da. So and so forth. Like, this woman had to be like, all right, I'm starting from scratch.

[A]

So she said, give me the. What was it called? The bell. The. Was it. What's the phone book called? It's called the something bell. Yeah. So she had to go get the white pages and the yellow Pages.

[B]

Man, I wish I had a name for it.

[A]

And I can't think of the name of the phone book. It was something with a bell in it. Y' all tweet me names of phone book. I only saw a phone book as a child. Okay, but. So she had to get the phone book. And then. I don't even know how the fuck you find people who have been affected by the company.

[B]

Exactly where you even start. Robo died where you even start.

[A]

Are you just like, hey, hello.

[B]

I mean. Cause that means, like, even then you gotta get, like, some sort of person to give you information, to give you leads, to go contact people.

[A]

She had to get leads.

[B]

Yeah. So it's like, where do you start from? With this. But she was like, is she, like,

[A]

waiting outside of the Zzz Best Company every day, like, with, like, sandwiches and, like, just paper scattered everywhere and, like,

[B]

binoculars, seeing people storming out, being like, okay, that person look mad. They look mad.

[A]

Okay, okay, I'm gonna get them.

[B]

Let me go. Let me go see what's going on. Like, this is crazy for a few hundred bucks. She was like, oh, my gosh. She really needed that money. Rather she needed that money or it's a principal thing.

[A]

I think it was a principality. It was the principalities of the issue. Because if you have this much time, like, you did not need that money.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So. So then she writes a diary. Sis is out here. You know, most people are writing about their emotions and their diary.

[B]

Not her.

[A]

She was in here, like, March 24, 1987. I still haven't seen a dime from Z. Best. I called and he told me to fuck off. Old lady, everybody.

[B]

It sounds like those really, really, like, old Southern belles, like the gentleman. Why you sound this old?

[A]

I was trying to give you, like, Morgan Freeman's Shawshank Redemption Voiceover I've been waiting outside of the Zzz Best carpet.

[B]

Now.

[A]

Zzzz Best is for eight hours every day. Sometimes Fred comes by and brings me a sandwich.

[B]

Meankow went out to a nice restaurant. Odd.

[A]

She's following him,

[B]

I think. Is he spending my money?

[A]

Definitely.

[B]

Probably. Don't worry, I'mma get that back. I'mma get that back.

[A]

I hope that she was stalking him. I hope she was like, okay, when I give it to the Los Angeles Times, I'll rip out the pages about me stalking him, but I'll leave everything else.

[B]

It's a lot of pages in this book that's ripped out. You don't worry about those. They don't matter.

[A]

So this is later that day at a press conference, a reporter denoted another bombshell. She had evidence that the Sacramento project didn't exist and that Zzz Best did not have a contractor's license required for large scale restoration work. So she found out that the building that they showed them wasn't real and wasn't theirs. And she also found out that they didn't even fucking bother to go get the permits to do the fake job that they don't do. Damn.

[B]

I mean, he did so much work in other areas and then just slipped up on the, on the, on the, on the small detail, the details. This is the details thing, Barry.

[A]

You gotta have a secretary of scam. You gotta have somebody who's like, you know what you need? You have to hire a hater. You have to hire a hater, but they need to love you and you need to pay them well.

[B]

So who they hating on in this scenario?

[A]

Everybody else.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Because here's the thing about haters and small. And small people who are petty and small, like, like, they'll notice details like that. That's like a hater's going to zoom in on every Instagram photo you post and check the walls and the corners to make sure that you haven't distorted the image. You know what I mean? And if you got somebody like that on your team, then check the walls. Oh, my God, they be doing that. Khloe Kardashian had to take down a picture because somebody zoomed in and was like, why this piece of tile bent like this? And that's why you need to have a hater friend. And you send it to your hater friend first and you say, does this look good? And they'll be like, oh, nah, bitch. I could clearly see that this wooden bar from the banister has been warped. So you're gonna have to make your booty normal size again.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

But he ain't had nobody like that.

[B]

Water walls look like this.

[A]

So to calm nervous investors, Minkow issued a press release touting record profits and revenues, which. Sir. Okay. I mean, we have no way to prove that.

[B]

I mean, that's the way to go, though.

[A]

That feels very Donald Trump to me. Like, we made a lot of money.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, record profits. And you see, he's the president.

[A]

The most money ever.

[B]

Obviously, that goofy shit work. Like, you just tell people some. Like, some people gonna be like, I don't know. But other people will be like, shut up. He said, we made money. We gonna see that soon. Yeah, don't worry about it. You gonna get that soon.

[A]

It's so crazy to me that so many white people are so mistrusting of black people and will scrutinize everything we say. But then you could just say crazy, wild, vague shit, and they'll be like,

[B]

okay, yeah, don't flinch. You can't flinch. Like, even in the face of, like, so much factuals. Like, that's the thing about Trump. I'll give it to him. He don't flinch. Like, he'll. You put shit, like, right in front of his face being like, nigga, this yours? Own this? He's like, no, not me. I would never do that. Then he'll move. Then he'll. Then he changed the subject. Also, why would I ever write on paper like this? Why would I? You know? It's like, God damn. You're like, damn, Maybe he right. Like, hold on. Is we wrong about this? Like, don't flinch. Never will flinch.

[A]

Oh, God.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

So July 2nd, Mikao abruptly resigned for health reasons. By this time, his company stock had dropped by 81%. So I'm hoping that Mikao had started selling off them shares. You know what I mean? Before, when he retired. Oh, and he retired. So I wonder if when he retired, he was like, let me get my shares of the company.

[B]

I mean, truly, we. Once again, we have to put this in perspective. Like, truly, this dude is up there giving press conferences, probably looking like a teenage boy. He is very young, right? So, like, this ain't some old man. Where you go, like, oh, okay, cool. We can trust him. Like, it's like you looking at somebody being like, man, I mean, this is.

[A]

But they wouldn't have high def, though. Ain't nobody have high def back then.

[B]

I mean, but I'm sure this dude still looked like, you know, like a scrappy dude in a Fucking oversized suit. Don't worry, don't worry.

[A]

Little rascals. Like, he was two people standing on

[B]

top of each other. They looking crazy, trying to tell the people, like, don't worry about it. Your money, savings. Like, how you know, you 21 years old, like you don't know shit.

[A]

And he said, health reasons. You were very young for health reasons. Okay? So two days later, the Los Angeles Pizza.

[B]

The Los Angeles Pizza Pizza Department, the lapd.

[A]

Man, fuck the lapd. Two days later, the LAPD raided Z's best headquarters and Minkow's home and found evidence that the company was being used to launder drug profits for organizations. Organized crime, which I pretty much suspected in the beginning. So basically, the restoration company that they had no permits for, that was a shell company. So there's like a ton of different ways to launder money, and it's all very complicated. And sometimes we Google how to launder money. There's like.

[B]

I mean, not now though. We just write off the dome. Let's find out Lacey's dome right now.

[A]

No, I googled out a launder money because there's like layering the. There's placement and then there's integration. And that's super fucking vague, but it's because you can do it in lots of different ways. So in this particular way, my man's Barry was using his fake company, the one that did restorations with no permits and no buildings, as a shell company. So it was just a front. So basically, all the drug money that was coming in, he could clean by saying that they were profits from this fake company that did not actually do anything. It only existed on paper and mailboxes. Because remember the. This is really the auditor's faul. But who audited my man's before they went public because he ain't wanna drive to San Fernando Valley. So he never discovered that it was just mailboxes.

[B]

This is tight. So. So. So for all you do boys out there listening to this scam, this scam got his podcast, right? You out there making it. You out there on the streets trying to feed your family, making your dough. Nobly, of course, it's not for flossing. It's for you. You gotta feed your family. And so you make it so you got a ton of dough. And it's like, all right, well, I gotta be able to learn. So get your homie, get him to give like a. Like a car cleaning business. Like a. You know, like, that's what we love. That's. We love that shit. That interior joints and we do that. That shit ain't real. We know it ain't real, but.

[A]

Oh, my God. What if every car cleaning business is a drug front?

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

Because we know laundromats are.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, what if every car cleaning business. I mean, not every, but I would. What, like 70% of them probably are, you know, 70.

[A]

I'm gonna say the same for laundromats. My old Lance owned a Laundromat, and he was very chill about when my roommates would pay their rent. And I was like, that's cause he don't need that money. And he was always in Mako. He was always in Mako. So, you know, we put the facts in.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

I mean, and that's why I loved him. I think that's why we got along, is. Cause we were both scammers, and we knew it.

[B]

Hey, game, peak game. Give me the money when you can.

[A]

Also, he was so nice that I'm like, he definitely murdering people. Cause everybody thinks murderers are probably, like, these grim, scary people. I think it's the people who look gentle and sweet, you know, and they're gen. Cause it's like, I'm good to you till you're not of use to me anymore. Until you cross me.

[B]

I can see that.

[A]

I could so see my last landlord just being like, all right, man, it was nice working with you. We don't need your services anymore. And then he just leaves, and the guy's like, murder the guy.

[B]

That's like,

[A]

I see that.

[B]

This is crazy. Also, I also would love to point out the fact that when, like, Lacey said it, she was like, yeah, that's why he didn't trip when my roommates didn't pay their bills on time. Like, she didn't throw herself in there. She was like, I always pay mine on time. She didn't want to throw herself in there. She know she was late. You know, you've been late.

[A]

I wasn't.

[B]

You know, you've been late.

[A]

The reason that we didn't get evicted, when one of my roommates. And this is the reason I live alone, she, like, didn't pay a rent for three months while I was shooting. And I came back, and I was like, I want to upgrade the apartment because I came back with a little money. And my landlord was like, oh, yeah, we could totally do that, but first you have to pay the rent. And I was like, wait, what? He was like, first you got to pay the rent. He was like, yeah, I was actually about to evict you guys. He sent me the paper forms of how my roommates had. Because we sent it all individually how they had neglect. They had been late on rent for like two years. And then like, we're really pushing it now. We're like doing like multiple months without paying rent.

[B]

I mean, first of all, that's a good ass landlord because, you know, most of the time, if it's being like, all right, cool. I see that y' all three people. That's why I thought he was. But y' all gonna be paying. Y' all gonna have to give it to me all at once. And I'm not gonna be like, going to you for yours and you for yours and you for yours.

[A]

Right?

[B]

So, I mean, he was really. Damn, that's great. Really nice.

[A]

He was so sweet. But obviously, I think that's cuz he had other business to attend to. He was like, I got to go back.

[B]

Yeah, he probably had some old. Other tenant places, other land businesses.

[A]

He had shell companies and. And books to cook. You know, he had other going on.

[B]

Yeah, he was over there going to LA Cordon Blue, trying to get his book.

[A]

His.

[B]

His books cooking going on, right?

[A]

Oh, yeah, He. It's like a certified, like three Michelin star book cook. That's what I. That's one of my goals. So, yeah, of course they. The police are up on it. So. Minkow and 10 other ZZZ best insiders were indicted by Los Angeles Federal Grand Jury January 1988 on 54 counts of racketeering, securities fraud and money laundering. Ooh. And embezzlement. Wait a minute. Also mail fraud. Don't stop to beat now. Tax evasion.

[B]

Ooh.

[A]

And also bank fraud.

[B]

He was doing a lot. He was doing a lot.

[A]

They hit him with the. They hit him with everything.

[B]

Yeah, he did. They was like, we ain't letting none of your things slide. Every last one of them.

[A]

Also, though, if you have 10 people who are implicated in this crime, I'm a little disappointed that they. None of them thought to get you a contract, like a fake contract for your fake company. Like, nobody thought to make your fake company whole. Y' all couldn't build one building.

[B]

I bet you, like, you couldn't restore

[A]

one joint just for the culture.

[B]

Well, he the head, so I'm pretty sure like everybody. I'm pretty sure he probably ripped off them as well. Probably like less like they got to eat and shit, but like, they was like, damn, I ain't even. You know what I'm saying? Like, he probably was also doing them dirty. Cause he like the man.

[A]

I feel like if you have a sous chef in your kitchen and they see you cooking the books, like, your sous chef has to learn to cook as well. Like, when you go on vacation, like, the sous chef gotta run the restaurant still.

[B]

I mean, I think you can know if it's like. I think you gotta look at the time that everybody got, like, you know, if everybody got lesser times, that means that.

[A]

So let's see. So on December 14, he was found guilty on all of them things.

[B]

Oh, shock.

[A]

They came in and they said, racketeering, guilty. Securities fraud, guilty. Money laundering, guilty. Embezzlement, guilty. Mail fraud, Jail time, tax evasion.

[B]

And every time they voted, he like, standing there, they're like, okay, but not this one, though.

[A]

Damn.

[B]

All right, what's the next one? Dam. Okay. All right. Oh, y' all can't get me on this one. No, y' all ain't got no. Damn.

[A]

They were like, bank fried. Get the cuffs like they gave. They threw the book at my man's.

[B]

Yeah, dude, they threw the phone book. Yeah. By the way, they threw the phone book, whatever that is. The bell. They threw the Southern Bell phone book at my man's.

[A]

So in March 1989, he was sentenced to 25 years in prison, placed on five years probation, and ordered to pay 20, 26 million of them things in restitution. Now, he was worth a hundred million. He did retire, right? Two days before he got arrested. I wonder if he had pulled. If he had liquidated his stocks. I wonder how much money he had. We don't know. And he got 25 years, bruh. You know, life is wild. Amber fucking Geiger got five fucking years for shooting a man in his own goddamn home. But this man got 25 years in prison because. Because he played y'. All. Mm.

[B]

I mean, but to be fair to the situations, he probably played a bunch of white people.

[A]

You're right.

[B]

You know what I mean? If Amber Gaga walked up in that house and shot A Nice. A Mr. Rogers, like, white man, you know what I mean?

[A]

While he was putting. He was changing his sweater and he

[B]

was putting on one shoe, you know what I mean? Like, she probably would have. I don't know.

[A]

She would have got more time.

[B]

Yeah, she probably would have got at least 10.

[A]

And she definitely wouldn't got no hugs from the family. I'm not getting into this.

[B]

That's not what the scammers want to hear.

[A]

They don't want to hear that. They don't want to hear that. And we know that's dark. That's dark. We try to keep it light. But I am just saying, like, this sentence seems heavy. And he is white. I'm abdicating for him.

[B]

I mean, he got 25 years, but

[A]

I'm pretty sure he's 25's too heavy.

[B]

He probably didn't do them. He probably wouldn't do all 25.

[A]

I hope not. Or I hope it was at like a really nice prison with like a golf course, massages, and acupuncture.

[B]

I mean, if I know my man's Minkow, don't worry. He was living good up in there. He was doing okay.

[A]

Also, he's young as hell, so he's gonna probably not serve all 25. He'll probably get out in his 30s, early 40s. Yeah, he'll still have a full life.

[B]

Yeah, he was doing. He, he, he was doing all right in there. He every now and then get some filet mignon to come in there. He was scamming in jail. He knew how he.

[A]

So I'm sure he just got some money tucked away in some offshores.

[B]

Oh, come on. He has to.

[A]

But what's crazy is also like, he was laundering for a drug front. But they didn't murk him.

[B]

Probably cuz he didn't rat. That's probably why he went to college. Like, when you don't rat, they tend to leave you alone.

[A]

Very. You a real one?

[B]

Yeah. Okay.

[A]

All right.

[B]

You didn't say nothing, huh? All right. I know a guy. I know a guy in jail that can probably watch over you. Fat Tony. He'll be able to tell you.

[A]

So. While in prison, Minkow had become a born again Christian. Hallelujah. During his prison stay, he became involved in a Christian ministry, completing coursework through Liberty University School's lifelong learning.

[B]

All right.

[A]

After Minkow's early release from prison in 1995, like, we. Yeah, he didn't do that time.

[B]

Not at all. That ain't even close. They didn't even have.

[A]

Wait a minute. He went to court. Court in 1988, bro, he did seven years.

[B]

He didn't even do half. He wasn't.

[A]

Yeah, he's still spry.

[B]

Yeah, he, he's hella good. He was like, I'm still. I ain't even 30 yet. Like, I'm out here balling. I ain't even 30 yet. Look at me.

[A]

So then he goes to work as a pastor of evangelism at a church at Rocky Peak in Chatsworth, California.

[B]

All right, now hold on. Before you continue to read, I just want to point out the Fact, I right now am waiting for this other shoe to drop. I don't trust it. I don't trust it, man.

[A]

You don't think he really found out?

[B]

I don't trust it.

[A]

You think he went. He was like, God, is that you?

[B]

He was like, oh, that's a. It's a new hustle. Okay.

[A]

We all know the church is a fantastic hustle.

[B]

Some of them are.

[A]

Some of them now. But some are good churches. I'll keep. If I don't say that, my mom will get mad at me. Some are good cuz she's sick of my. She's looking more church going friends listening to me, being like. She's like, I raised you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So in 1997, he became the pastor of Community Bible Church in San Diego.

[B]

Community Bible Church.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

All right.

[A]

And also in 1995, he wrote a firsthand account of Z best scam. Clean Sweep. That's what the book is called. And all of the. He should have just called it Z Best Scam.

[B]

Like Clean Sweep. I was like, but it's carpet though.

[A]

Yeah. That don't make no sense.

[B]

If it was hardwood, you do that.

[A]

You know what, though? Clean Sweep sounds better as like a scam marketing book. Because I didn't know about ZZZ Best. I probably wouldn't pick that shit. I didn't know what I was reading.

[B]

I just mean that Clean Sweep, it sounds tight. Until you get to the logistics of you being like, oh, that shit don't even make no sense. It's not even close. Like you'll sweep the carpet clean.

[A]

Vacuum.

[B]

Yeah, I know. I get it. It works perfectly. But when you think about. It's like, oh, this don't even go.

[A]

Suction.

[B]

It didn't sound tight.

[A]

That sounds like a Zane book, like an erotic novel. Suction.

[B]

I laid her down on the dirty ass carpet.

[A]

All right, all right, sir. So all of the book's proceeds went to repaying his victims.

[B]

Okay. Yeah. Because obviously he didn't have that money. I don't know. I don't got the money.

[A]

Offshore.

[B]

He don't got the money.

[A]

So soon after his arrival, a church member. So this is when he starts the Community Bible Church. Soon after his arrival, a church member asked him to look into a money management firm in nearby Orange County. Suspecting that something was amiss, Minkow alerted federal authorities who discovered it was a $300 million pyramid scheme. Wait a minute, Barry. So you became a snitch when you found Jesus? I be reading a good book and it don't say nothing about Snitching it say, love thy neighbor.

[B]

I get that.

[A]

If thy neighbor doing doth do crime, none of thy business.

[B]

Okay, well, but also think about it like this. He could be like, all right, this time I'm gonna get back in their good graces. I'mma snitch on these cats, get them in my grave.

[A]

Like, hey, damn, look at some of that restitution.

[B]

Like, come on, man. Like, I just told him this thing. Like, yeah, y' all can trust me.

[A]

And you are so right.

[B]

Laying the groundwork to take advantage of him later.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I mean, he could be smart. Let's see. Let's see, Barry. Let's see.

[A]

So this was the beginning of a fraud discovery institute, a for profit investigation firm, which eventually transpired. I'm not even gonna say that. I'm gonna save the last part. So he basically starts a business where he is detecting fraud for the government because he has done fraud.

[B]

No.

[A]

Okay, right. So he soon attracted the attention of the media and began appearing on TV as a fraud expert. Several Wall street investors liked what they saw, and they sent him enough money to go after bigger targets. So now the people he scammed on Wall street are like, giving him money to go find other scammers. So Minkow claimed to have uncovered a billion dollars worth of fraud over the years. Minkow almost always held a position in stocks on which he reported, however, stated that while his lawyers advised him the practice was legal, it was probably unethical. So now he's like, kind of getting into ethics and he's getting into like money laundering, drug fronts, businesses like this. So several companies have sued Minkow for making false accusations against them, and most of which have been settled outta court. So he probably raked up like a bag snitching on companies. Then some companies was like, we not even doing fraud, bruh.

[B]

Bruh, we over here, we legit over here, bruh. This is crazy.

[A]

Probably snitched on every laundry company, company he ever saw. Anytime he drove past a washing pole,

[B]

he called the feds. Yeah, this one look good over here.

[A]

And he was probably right 70% of the time. So some of the washing phones were like, damn, we not actually doing crime. So one month after Minkow learned that he was the subject of a criminal investigation, he announced to his attorney that he was pleading guilty on one count of insider trading. So remember, he was going to be figure out companies, like, if they were doing fraud, checking their books, things like that. Also, he had specific stock intel because that's on what he was basically reporting the most because his fraud, even though it had to do with money laundering with his like shell company. He also defrauded like Wall street, the nasdaq. And so he's basically going in specifically looking at stocks. So he was using this information while he was fraud detecting to do insider trading. He couldn't stop doing crime.

[B]

He couldn't, he couldn't. I mean this was a, a lower scale. Like, cuz he definitely like, oh, okay, like this one, he probably was like, this is so damn easy. Like they throwing this right into my lap, right?

[A]

They're literally paying me to come in here, look at inside information and then I can go use it.

[B]

I ain't gotta hire no. I ain't gotta hire no fake company. I ain't gotta make no commercials.

[A]

I don't have to get on backstitch.com and craigslist and Backpage. I don't have to do mail fraud.

[B]

I don't gotta get like 10 of my homies in this. I can just. It's just. This is tight.

[A]

This is fantastic.

[B]

This is crazy.

[A]

So me Kau claims not to know at the time that he was breaking the law, which is my favorite excuse. He said, oh, you mean I can't go look at a company's reports and stocks and then use that information to purchase said stocks?

[B]

Oh man, this is the first time hearing about this.

[A]

Also, he's still pretty young, so maybe people will believe him.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

In a pre sentencing evaluation, Meekow was diagnosed as having antisocial personality disorder disorder narciss. Wait, this is a long list. So Minkow was diagnosed with having antisocial personality disorder, narcissistic personality disorder, attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, anxiety disorder, opioid dependence, anabolic steroid abuse. Okay. And he was diagnosed with migraine headaches. Okay, sorry, Barry. The headaches is really what everything else on here. I hate mental health shaming. I think these are all legitimate. I know they are. But you go tell the judge you had headaches and that's why you did insider trading.

[B]

Like, I don't understand.

[A]

Like, it's just the et cetera wasn't working so I had to start insider trading.

[B]

Have you, judge, have you ever had a bad migraine? Like, I got them all the time. Like I can't even.

[A]

And that's why I have to break the law.

[B]

I have to break the law. I. Health, health stuff ain't easy. It ain't easy. I could get into health care.

[A]

Like, what? So two months later, it emerged that officials within the church had accused Minkov of running a Fraud Discovery institute with church funds applying for credit cards in the name of church members.

[B]

Is he still doing, Is he still pastoring at this time, by the way? All right, okay, Barry. All right. They got to find this stuff and then also be like, all right, but I gotta get this sermon. I gotta get this sermon popping for Sunday. All right, Barry. Okay, Barry.

[A]

Man, you are a busy man, Barry.

[B]

At your, at your community Bible church. That's not even a denomination. It's like, what church is this? It's a Bible church.

[A]

They trying to get everybody's money.

[B]

Yeah, he like, man, I, I, I don't nobody, whoever Baptist.

[A]

Do you like the Bible? We ain't doing no denomination.

[B]

You like the Bible?

[A]

He said, we're not even non denominational. Okay. We just all denominations original.

[B]

Y' all believe Jesus is Lord. Come on in. Come on in.

[A]

We got something funny. So he was still running the church at the time and applying. What was really sending me is that he was applying for credit cards in church members names. That's why he was doing that. Yes. And he was leading his flock into bad investments. Sir, so when you preaching on Sunday, are you getting up like, hello, everyone. Thank you. Thank y' all so much for coming out here today. The Lord hath told me that gold is up.

[B]

King Midas.

[A]

Like, is this Ernest and Young or is this a church?

[B]

I don't even, like, honestly, I don't even believe. I don't believe he wrote it. Ever wrote a sermon. I would say I believe he probably went to other churches, like night churches or like a church on a Wednesday and it stole somebody sermon and it just went to church and gave to that.

[A]

You're right.

[B]

I would believe that 100%.

[A]

So one woman says that Minkov asked her for $300,000 purportedly to help finance a movie about his redemption. Sir, if my pastor ever asked me for $300,000. Hey, S. Do you mind saying after church?

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

What's going on? Hey, hey, hey, hey.

[B]

You doing. Hey, Pastor. Hey, great sermon, by the way.

[A]

Oh, thank you so much.

[B]

Sounds so fresh. Original.

[A]

Absolutely. You know, I've been noticing that you, you look real blessed these days. Oh, are those Balenciagas?

[B]

Oh, yes, these. Oh, yes, of course. These are. It's been a hard rush.

[A]

Watch.

[B]

Yeah, my grandma died and like, she left me with a lot of money. I didn't realize she had as much money as she did. And, you know, I've been spurging just a little bit to kind of make myself feel bad.

[A]

Yeah, the Lord. The Lord taketh and the Lord giveth. And the Lord instructed ye to giveth as well.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I gave elections.

[A]

Did you tithe?

[B]

Yeah, I gave election.

[A]

Did you give 10% of your grass grandma's money?

[B]

I wouldn't say 10, Pastor, but I gave more than I usually get.

[A]

Let's do 10%. But how about we give it to me. Is it as an investment in a blessing.

[B]

An investment for what, Pastor, you will

[A]

help me anoint the silver screens of this great nation.

[B]

Oh, okay. How much money?

[A]

$300,000.

[B]

Okay. Past. I got to be honest. I know a little bit about movies. That movie about to be trash, then. $300. $300? That's not enough to make a good movie. You talking about shot on the iPhone in the 90s? Yeah.

[A]

Okay, so he admitted to embezzling over $3 million in donations to Community Bible Church. Why is he asking for $300,000? If he's embezzled 3 million, what is he spending his money on?

[B]

I mean, that's the thing I'm learning about business stuff. And, like, guess what? When you even have money, you don't spend your own money like you. You spend other. You spend, like, the bank's money. So that's why he like, I don't spend my own money. I know the rules to this. I've been scamming since I was nine years old. I know the rules to this.

[A]

He has been scamming since he was 9. So he opened unorth unauthorized bank accounts on the church's behalf, forged signatures on the church's checks, diverted money from church accounts to his personal use, and charged unauthorized personal experiences on church credit cards.

[B]

This dude just stop.

[A]

Massages on Jesus, cars on Jesus, put everything on Jesus. Among his victims were a widower who gave $75,000 to fund a supposed. Supposed hospital in Sudan to honor his wife after she died of cancer, and a woman who gave Minkoff $300,000 that would have otherwise gone to help raise her teenage granddaughter.

[B]

This dude really sold somebody. Yo, give me some money, and I'm. And it's gonna. I'm gonna go build a hospital in the Sudan. I feel like this nigga just turned the globe and was like, the Sudan. That's what I'm gonna say. The Sudan.

[A]

A place I know you'll never.

[B]

You ain't never going to the Sudan. Oh, my God.

[A]

So that's sad. He did it for his late wife, so I feel bad for him.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, he. Yeah.

[A]

That's so sad.

[B]

Yeah. No jokes on you, my man. I'm sorry about that, man. Sorry for your loss. Sorry for your loss.

[A]

Okay. So in June 2014, Minkow reached an agreement with the federal prosecutors that called for him to pay $3.4 million in restitution, again on top of his $26 million restitution. So he. The book must not have done that well because it did not pay off his 26mil. As a result of his last sentence, Minkow was released June 6, 2019. My man's just got out. Oh, t. Glizzy first day out. So it looks like they may be doing a film adaptation.

[B]

I mean, this is all interesting.

[A]

And actually, they did so following his release, it was canceled. Like, so they were going to actually do a film adaptation, and it was canceled when he got arrested. So then the film was retitled Con man, and the original title was Minkow. And it was a. It was released in March 2018. Con Man.

[B]

Con Man. And it's about him, though.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Huh?

[A]

Everybody go out, watch Con.

[B]

Go watch Con Man.

[A]

Probably on Amazon.

[B]

I mean, Netflix. I don't know. This is so interesting and compelling. Like, and he got all them diseases and all that stuff. Like, so it's just like, I can feel like he just like, Yeah, I can see that. The notion that he just like, look, I scammed once, and I just. I just can't stop at that. I can't stop scamming. I'mma keep going. I'mma keep. I'mma put credit cards in people's names. I'm going ask people for money that I shouldn't be asking. I don't be doing all this on top of the fact that I'm getting the bag, also doing the fraud shit. But I can't stop getting money. Like, if people going to give me this money, I can't stop taking it from them.

[A]

Can't stop. Won't stop.

[B]

Yeah. Until they take me to jail. I can't stop. Won't stop until they send me to jail.

[A]

And then they keep letting him out. He did a bid this time, though, because he got out in 2019 team. So he did a bit.

[B]

Yeah. And I guarantee you right now, like, he like, you know what, man? Yeah, exactly. They already think he's like, all right, man, what's a scam that's not gonna get me in jail? You know, I'm gonna just. I know what I'm doing. I'm gonna start. I'm gonna start going scamming food, getting this free food first. Well, let me go in here. First of all, I'm Hungry. Let me go to this McDonald's real quick and tell them they didn't get my McChicken sandwich.

[A]

Oh, he's gonna start. He's gonna go all the way down.

[B]

Yeah, he gonna go to Tina.

[A]

I was gonna say he'll start washing cars. Cause he can clean money with that too.

[B]

He ain't washing cars. He already gonna figure out a way to like, get in on somebody else's car washing business. Like, hey, you know what? I can really help you expand your business. I'm really good at this.

[A]

Into crime.

[B]

Yeah. And they.

[A]

You like crime? All right, guys. Oh, I hate this part. And I have to let Ronnie go. Yeah, it's been wonderful.

[B]

This has really been very interesting. I learned a lot and I think too. And I think I wanna go home and try to read more up on money laundry. Not to do it.

[A]

I am too.

[B]

Not to. To do it. But just to be.

[A]

Just to know the specifics of each type of money laundering. Just to know.

[B]

It's crazy. You watch so many. I've seen so many movies where that is a crime that people are accused of, and I'm just like, yeah, okay, cool. But you really don't really know the int. Intricacies of it.

[A]

No, they're not putting it out there. I got to get on the dark web. So the scammer of the week is Bruce Badgley. This is the segment of the show where we honor one charlatan that's really worthy of our praise. And this week it's Bruce Bradley, a university professor seen as an expert organized crimes and the drug trade has been arrested for allegedly laundering millions of dollars. Really stayed on theme with this episode. So he was an expert, but then he also was doing the laundering. So the professor of international relations at the University of Miami is accused of helping launder $300 million of dirty money from Venezuela while skimming about 300,000 for himself. Other reports say that the total involved is 2.5 million, which he's accused of receiving from bank accounts in Sweden. Switzerland. Always scammy to have a Swiss bank account. And they were the proceeds of bribery and embezzlement in Venezuela. So the U.S. attorney said in a statement that Badgley, who was held on Monday and retained about 10% as commission. He's charged with two counts of money laundering and one count of conspiracy to commit money laundering. Badgley is 73 and considered one of the foremost experts in the field. He wrote the 2015 book Drug Trafficking, Organized Crime and Violence in Today's America. The academic has previously Worked and consulted with the FBI, as well as the US State Department and the dea. So maybe we need to be looking at these experts, because if you know how to do it, I mean, also, I think that's dope, because you could give the government just enough tea, but you don't have to give them all the tricks. You save the new shit for yourself. And then also, you get to learn how to. Much technology the government actually has.

[B]

And what they. Yeah, I mean, that's a crate. Like, to be on the inside. Like, that's also a form of boldness, to be on the inside, being like, all right, cool. And I'm scamming on the inside of me. I'm like, and this is so f. I can't. I won't get caught. And also, they trust me. Like, how do they. Like, no, that's not.

[A]

They'll never even be looking into you while they're like, oh, man. Bruce showed up today looking real clean. Is he driving a roller? I thought he was a professor. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm tenured.

[B]

Yeah, I'm tenured. I'm old. I've been living saving money for a long time.

[A]

I saved my money my whole life.

[B]

My whole life. I thought I was splurge. Finally, you know what else I'm gonna do with it? It's like, all right, Bruce.

[A]

I feel like at 73, if he helped y' all catch all these people, y' all can't make him go to jail for this. Like, let my man's go.

[B]

I mean, yeah, he probably. That's what he probably thought, too. He probably put him in the room being like, bruce, they can do this to us.

[A]

Bruce, they fucking know him.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, my. Bruce. You know how they got him, too? They probably didn't even arrest him. They was just like, let's just let him show up for work today. Let's let him show up to work today. Bruce, you're gonna have to give us your key card.

[B]

Why? What happened?

[A]

I'm getting fired. No, you're going to federal prison.

[B]

Oh, that don't sound right. Why? No, I didn't do that.

[A]

No, look, I investigated myself. I definitely didn't do that.

[B]

I investigated myself. I investigated myself. I came out clean. I investigated myself and I came.

[A]

I. Oh, man. Ronnie, this has been fantastic.

[B]

Yeah, this is a really interesting and enlightening show.

[A]

I don't know if you're being sincere.

[B]

I really am. I am. I was literally. I didn't know what this was. And I came into this and then was like, oh, okay, this is very interesting.

[A]

Well, Ronnie, where do you want to be found?

[B]

Oh, I guess you can find me on the Gram Bones, Adrian. I'm also on Twitter, but who cares? I'm never on it. Oh, yeah, I perform at the Upright citizens brigade theater. UCP. I got a show there every Saturday, 10:30, and every second Friday at 10:30.

[A]

And what are the names of those shows?

[B]

One is called Make It Hot with My Team, White Women, and the other one, Saturdays, is Let's Party with the Dragons.

[A]

Yes. All right, guys. And as always, you can find [e-mail], send us your scams. Make sure they're retired, or if you've been scammed and you want to share, please let us know. We also love sharing that with the congregation. Guys, you can find our our podcast at Scam Goddess Pod on Twitter and on Instagram. And you can find me at D I V A L A C I Diva Lacey on all platforms. All right, congregation, stay scheming.