The Deutschland Duper with Rhea Butcher

Summary

Scam Goddess Podcast Summary

Episode: The Deutschland Duper with Rhea Butcher

Release Date: December 15, 2020
Host: Laci Mosley
Guest: Rhea Butcher

---

Overview

This episode of Scam Goddess dives into one of history's wildest art scams—masterminded by the infamous German art forger Wolfgang Beltracchi. Host Laci Mosley and comedian/actor Rhea Butcher mix their trademark humor with sharp insights as they unpack a true con so elaborate it sucked in the world’s top museums, celebrities like Steve Martin, and a parade of art “experts.” The show also features listener scams (including a childhood poetry contest grift), musings on contest culture, and a current scam where TikTok creators and banking info collide. With authentic tangents, contagious laughter, and real talk about art, crime, and culture, this episode is an engaging ride for scam aficionados and newcomers alike.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Pandemic Coping and Comedy Catch-up

[00:00 – 09:59]

• Laci and Rhea banter about surviving the pandemic, social distancing, and LA-style escapes like Joshua Tree and Palm Springs.
• Both reflect on the weirdness of noticing animal patterns during lockdown and relate funny, personal squirrel stories.
• Rhea shares experiences with casual ("micro") scams and muses about being both a scammer and a victim:
  • "I've been both." (Rhea Butcher, 05:18)
  • Rhea recounts how her aunt’s identity was stolen in the 1980s and how that tale fed a childhood fascination with scams.

Improv, Comedy, and Cults

[08:50 – 10:00]

• The duo joke about the cult-like nature of improv comedy.
• Laci ribs on how improv classes and shows mirror cult structures, but “without the mandatory sex with the founder.”

What’s Hot and Fraught: Listener Scam – The "Kathy" Poetry Contest

[10:04 – 16:43]

• Laci introduces a listener-submitted scam (Kathy) involving a poetry contest that required a $200 fee to "publish" a winning poem.
  • Rhea: "Publishing fees, it's not a thing." (16:00)
• Insights on how the allure of contests is built on the universal need for validation, and how scammers prey on ambition—especially in young, hopeful writers.
• Discussion about how becoming wise to scams is a rite of passage, subverting the innocence of childhood.

Historic Hoodwinks: Wolfgang Beltracchi, Art Forger Extraordinaire

[17:43 – 54:28]

Wolfgang's Backstory and Method

• Wolfgang Beltracchi (born Wolfgang Fischer) learned art copying from his father; shocked him at 14 by painting a convincing Picasso.
• Lived a nomadic, bohemian life across Europe, mixing artistic experimentation with selling fakes and originals.
  • Commentary on how most successful scammers are genuinely skilled:
    • "That's the thing about scammers... most of them would actually be very talented in the fields that they've chose to scam in. But instead they choose lies." (24:25)
• Married Helene—who became his partner in crime—creating a believable backstory of art inheritance via faked photos and elaborate storytelling.
  • Laci: "She comes in and she's like, 'I'm a white woman and I've inherited goods. As a white woman, this is plausible. Don’t look into me.'" (32:26)

The Scam

• Forged hundreds of paintings passed off as lost works of modern masters.

• Built credibility with detailed “provenance,” including doctored black-and-white photos printed on “pre-war” paper.

• Successfully fooled major art experts and institutions.

  • "The production value. This is like a movie." (33:17)

• Auction houses sold his fakes for millions. Even comedian Steve Martin unknowingly spent $860,000 on a Beltracchi fake.

  • "That's a lot of money. Laci, a lot of people have a lot of money." (45:00)

• Their luck ran out when a buyer requested a scientific certificate of authenticity, unveiling that their pigments contained titanium white—a chemical not available in 1914.

  Key Moment:

  • "In a laboratory, chemists decided that the work contained a pigment, titanium white, that did not exist in 1914." (42:51)

The Fallout

• Authorities found more fakes via forensic analysis (and coffee/tea-aged labels).
• Daughter was tasked with destroying computer evidence (not typewriters—this was recent!).
• In court, Beltracchi admitted everything with little remorse:
  • "He attacked the greed and arrogance of the art market and admitted that the deception had been great fun." (48:55)
• Laci draws comparisons to Anna Delvey’s infamous “I am not a good person” courtroom declaration:
  • "That kind of reckless honesty with yourself... I love it." (52:49)
• Sentenced to 6 (Wolfgang) and 4 (Helene) years, much of it served only in nighttime confinement if gainfully employed. Released early for good behavior.
  • Rhea: "These two white people got prison sentences, and then all they had to do was promise to go get a job, and then they didn’t have to go. That’s also fucked up." (54:52)

Scammer of the Week: TikTok Creator Fund Scam

[55:44 – 60:31]

• A father lost $3,000 after his daughter responded to a TikTok message about making money via followers, giving away his bank information.
• Laci and Rhea debate the legitimacy of creator fund payouts and warn artists and creators to always vet “too good to be true” offers.
  • "No one will ever reach out to you on TikTok and be like, ooh, time for you to have money. No one will do that." (58:23)
• Lesson: Talk to others and verify before giving out personal information:
  • Rhea: "Slow down and talk to somebody else before you do any of this stuff. Verify your sources to the best of your ability." (60:11)
  • Laci: "Say it out loud, hear yourself and be like... was that wild?" (61:17)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• On being a "pan scammer":

  • Laci: "I'm bi. I'm a scammer and a mark, right?" (05:19)
  • Rhea: "You're a pan scammer. Pan scamule." (05:22)

• On contests and validation:

  • Laci: "Contests are a scam, y'all, because that's the thing about being alive as a human being: you want validation, you want recognition. And so we all love a contest." (12:20)

• On the absurdity of art forgeries and museums:

  • Laci: "Museums just be like, this—all the shit we stole. That's literally museums." (19:16)

• On forensic art authentication:

  • Rhea: "Isn't it like another person who inspects the art and they, like, actually scientifically look at the thing? ... Forensics." (39:43)
  • Laci: "In a laboratory, chemists decided that the work contained a pigment, titanium white, that did not exist in 1914." (42:51)

• On justice for scammers vs. the rich:

  • Laci: "If you trick rich people, you will go down." (53:14)

• On learning from scams:

  • Laci: "Just question the means. Take a second, think about things. ... Phone a friend, do a 50/50, eliminate some possibilities." (61:11)

---

Highlights and Running Jokes

• Laci regularly pokes fun at her inability to pronounce European names or art terms.
• Rhea and Laci riff on the similarities between improv comedy and cults, the “chaotic” nature of the art world, and the universal hunger for validation.
• Extended asides about how youth, ambition, and even basic trust are often what scammers prey upon.
• Laci’s sharp commentary on the justice system, class, and who actually faces consequences for “white collar” crimes.
• Repeated references to burning and tea-staining papers as scammer "aging" techniques.

---

Guest Info & Plugs

• Rhea Butcher:
  • Standup album: “Pull Yourself Up By Your Bootleg” (Look for digital release on A Special Thing Records)
  • Podcast: Three Swings (baseball and more)
  • TV: Good Trouble (recurring role)
  • Socials: @RheaButcher

---

Takeaways for Listeners

• Art is both a playground for authenticity and a magnet for scams—the boundaries get fuzzy, especially with big egos and big money involved.
• Scams almost always succeed by tapping into basic human needs: validation, recognition, and a sense of specialness.
• Always slow down, verify, and "say it out loud" before you trust, invest, or send info to anyone online.
• A good scam story—told with warmth, wit, and a touch of scandal—has value even after all the paint dries.

---

Scam Goddess sign-off:
Stay schemin’, Congrgation!

Transcript

[A]

Scams C. Robbery and fraud. Scam. Cause robbery and fraud. What's poppin, Congregation? It's your girl, Scam Goddess, AKA Lacy Mosley. And we're back for another installment of Scam Goddess. And if you've been here before, then you know what we do at the top. I always say I am so. What I am. Yeah, I am very excited, very excited for this guest and I really am. I never lie to you guys if I'm not excited. I'll tell you. Listen, I. It's. It's been a whirlwind. We were having a time in Pandemic, you know, and what I want you to know about this guest is one, they are very fucking funny. They do stand up. They're amaz. And they have a special coming out. Put your. Put your post notifications on, you know, get your Google alerts set, honey. For pull yourself up by your bootleg, which is already a very funny title. We have Rhea Butcher.

[B]

Hi. What's up, Lacy?

[A]

I love that we pretend that we haven't talked and talking for like 20 minutes before this.

[B]

I know. Oh, it's so great to be here. I'm so glad you're excited because I'm excited.

[A]

I'm excited to see you. I'm trying. I'm in the studio, guys, by myself, social distancing, doing a zoom and I'm trying to, like, position myself where the microphone is going. Yeah.

[B]

I'm trying to get some eye contact and stuff. It's tough with microphones. It's tough with microphones.

[A]

It is. Where. Where are you in the world, Rhea?

[B]

I'm in Los Angeles right now.

[A]

That's what I thought.

[B]

Inside my home in Los Angeles. I haven't. I went to San Diego. Like, I drove down to San Diego twice during the Pandemic. That's pretty much the only place. I went to Joshua Tree once.

[A]

Like, okay, you did all the LA things. That's. I, I also do. I went to Palm Springs, which feels like a very privileged LA thing to do. Like, oh, we're in a pandemic. Let's go, you know, get in a tiny.

[B]

Let's get a dip in the pool. Yeah, for sure. It is and it isn't. You know, it is and it isn't.

[A]

Right. It's necessary. Look, mental health trash.

[B]

You gotta do what you gotta do. Sometimes you just gotta get in the car and drive and look at other stuff. You know, I have a very small apartment. I gotta go look at some other things.

[A]

I've been looking at stuff so much I've been looking at so much stuff. I. I know. The squirrel thing. Yeah. The squirrels outside my home, like, I. They have patterns, and I've realized them, and I'm like, oh, my mom.

[B]

You're, like, squirrel tracking now.

[A]

I am. My mom actually visited before the pandemic, and she told me that the squirrels were violent, and I was like, what? She was like, I saw them biting each other in the tree, and I was like, wow.

[B]

I mean, they are pretty intense. I have, like, in my. I have a very tiny little backyard, but a backyard nonetheless. And there are squirrels that hang out back there, and they. Yeah, it's a huge flex. It's a.

[A]

In Los Angeles, it is. You got backyard?

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

You got front yard and backyard.

[B]

Yeah, it's a retaining wall, and then there's dirt, and then, you know, whatever.

[A]

Okay, Classy. Classy.

[B]

But these squirrels come back, and they literally. Lacy. Were bringing zesty crackers back there and opening the package and eating them in our backyard. They're having, like, a picnic in my backyard. They don't know it's a pandemic. They're just living their lives.

[A]

Listen, nature is healing, okay? Nature was like, fuck y'.

[B]

All.

[A]

We run this hoe. And I'm happy for them. I actually, before we get into it, I went. I've been hiking a lot. That's been my coping mechanism. And I didn't realize how close I lived to Griffith, because I didn't realize that I've been, like, a slave to work for four years since the whole time I've lived here. And I had never been to Echo Park Lake. Yeah, dude. I went on a walk with a bunch of comedian friends, and I was like, ooh, they got swans. This is cute. They were like, have you never been here? You should have definitely been here before. And I was like, no. They're like, you don't got no man to take you out. I was like, no. So I was hiking at Griffith Park. I like going to the observatory. You can hike up to it. And I didn't realize that nature is still nature. So I was coming down, listening to some Beyonce, and the sun was definitely setting, and I was like, oh, yes, girl. We having a good time. And then some. I don't know if they were deer or coyotes, so I call them coyote deer because I don't know what they were, but it was three of them. And they came up under the brush, and they crossed the trail, and I had to hide behind a rock because I was like, yeah, I can't die. By coyote. That's embarrassing.

[B]

You don't want it? Not in 2020. There's so many other ways. You know, like, to die by Coyote in 2020 is just like underselling.

[A]

I imagine my family like, damn, them coyotes got like, what? Nobody should die like that. That's embarrassing.

[B]

Nobody?

[A]

Nobody. If your family died by coyote, I'm sorry, but it's just. It's truly embarrassing to me. Rhea, what's your relationship with scams? Like? Have you ever been scammed? Do you consider yourself a scammer or a mark? Like we like everyone. We.

[B]

Well, I've been both.

[A]

I'm bi. I'm a scammer and a mark. Right.

[B]

You're a pan scammer. You pan.

[A]

I am pan Samuel. Pan scamule. I am.

[B]

I mean, I feel like I've definitely, like. I would say I've micro scammed, you know, gotten my way into things or like gotten free tickets or something. You know what I mean? Like that.

[A]

Oh, wait, what's the way that you got yourself into something?

[B]

Well, now that I think about it, like, my friend was really the one who was doing like, I went to Pitchfork a bunch of years ago and they used to have like these giveaways and she figured out a way to like, sort of like, not necessarily scam because it wasn't like lying, but just like get hella VIP passes, you know, like every time. Like, she figured out the game, like the rules of the game. And so we just kind of like scammed adjacent our way into the VIP section, you know?

[A]

I like that.

[B]

But I also like the, the one that came to mind when you asked me this first was when I was a kid, um, my aunt, she had her identity stolen by her roommate.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

Like fully. And so this was like in the 80s. And like, I mean, I think that shit was. It's always happening, you know, but like, it. It became like a thing, I feel like kind of later.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And we all like, learned about it, you know. And I used to ask my mom to tell me the story. I'm making air quotes when I'm saying that, because it. She told me about it when I. I don't know if. If everybody did this. I don't think I'm unique. But there's this time as a kid where you just want to hear the same story over and over and over and over again. Even if it's like boring. It's like a weird developmental stage. And I, like, would have my mom tell me that story, and it was, it was legit. Like, well, she pretended to be your aunt at the bank and got money and then started getting mail, and then she took her identity and your aunt had to get it back. And that was, like, the end of the story. And I would be like, tell me the story again. And, like, I just want to hear that over and over again.

[A]

Ria, I feel like you were putting on your Law and Order SVU hat and trying to interrogate your mom. I feel like this was you being like, I want more details. You, like, tell me the story again, but different this time.

[B]

But give me more.

[A]

I.

[B]

Are you sure? Like, tell me time stamps and things, you know, and where were you during all, you know, that kind of stuff.

[A]

Right. Did you also steal the identity? We want to know. Inquiring minds want to know. I. The 80s were such a good time for scams.

[B]

Oh, they really were. I mean, do you remember the movies Mannequin? What a scam that was.

[A]

Listen. And I loved it. And I loved Me too. Ghost with where everybody. Why was everybody's computer in green? Like, why was all the writing in green? I don't know.

[B]

Clicky, clacky. Lacey. I recently watched this. That at the beginning of the pandemic. Or maybe not. I can't remember a time anymore, but I hadn't seen it since I was a kid. Like, I loved it when I was a kid, you know? And it was also, like, just everywhere. It was a huge, huge moment, you know, Like, Whoopi's, like, she made her, you know, just a huge celebrity.

[A]

Yeah. She was like, you in danger, girl. And every and all the girls, and it was just like, we were in danger.

[B]

And I remember it being like, a comedy, because I think as a kid, I really, like, was attracted to, like, Whoopi in the movie. Right. And then watching it again, I was like, oh, this is like, a really. It's so cheesy. But it's also like, I was crying real tears, like, true tears at the end of that movie. Like, everybody's so good at it. It's so cheesy. But it's also, like, so. I don't know. It's emotional. Maybe I was just highly emotional because of the pandemic.

[A]

No, no, you were. You were perfectly in the right place. It reminds me of improv. Like, improv is the stupidest form of comedy, and it's the one that I've dedicated my life to. And I do stand up, which is my dirty little secret, but I do a lot of improv and impro. All about all of us. Showing up and being like, look, this is stupid, but we're gonna commit.

[B]

Like, we're all, like, a good time.

[A]

Let's do it. We're in a cult. It's a cool cult. Because, like, there's other, you know. Look, improv's a cult. You pay people to teach you it. You pay people to perform. It's a cult. But the difference between it and, like, Nexium is, like, they're never in my improv career. Was there a white man who came out of the shadows and was like, it's time to have sex with me? Like, that never happened. So I was like, this is. I like this cult. It's a cool cult.

[B]

Well, Lacey, you got lucky then, because I. That's been some people's experience of improv.

[A]

Unfortunately, I feel like, how dare you try to have sex with me when we do an improv. I just feel like I couldn't even

[B]

take that for the stage.

[A]

You better do some object work.

[B]

You're trying to. Yeah.

[A]

You trying to literally touch me? No.

[B]

Don't you literally touch me.

[A]

Oh, goodness. Well, let's get into it.

[B]

Let's do it.

[A]

Our first segment, what's hot and Fraught? So this is where we warn our listeners and our congregation. I love you guys. You're mean to me. I want to say that. Congregation, you are very mean, and I still love you. I've trained you to be this way. So it's my fault. And this is where we warn our listeners about current scams or we get a listener letter where you snitch on your friends and family. And as always, guys, you can do [e-mail]. snitch on your friends and. But make sure the scams are tired because we don't want to fuck up your bag.

[B]

Get.

[A]

Get all the things that you can. So today I need. Rhea, I need you to give me a name for this person. I think they identify as female.

[B]

Okay. Kathy.

[A]

Oh, Kathy. I love a Kathy.

[B]

That's the first thing that came to my mind.

[A]

I love a Kathy. I have an Aunt Kathy who, like, is, like, one of those nice people who wills you into doing stuff you don't want to do. That's how I ended up on Thanksgiving. Zoom. Because Aunt Kathy was like, we're. You need to get on. And I love my family because there's no one who can make me more humble than the Mosleys. Cause Chile, when I tell you they ain't never laughed at none of my jokes. Stone faced. And I Love it.

[B]

Big old silence.

[A]

I need that. I need humility.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So Kathy says, I'm right in your holiness. Don't call me that, Kathy. Don't call me that. To tell you about the first time I was ever scammed, which started my lifelong fascination with scams and grifts of all kind. I like that. Since I was in sixth grade, around the year 2000, and absolutely convinced that I was going to be a famous writer one day. You can't be capping.

[B]

Go ahead.

[A]

I mainly wrote terrible poetry and fantasy stories. When I say fantasy like that. One day I saw an ad for a poetry contest and decided to submit an entry. I got a letter back saying that I was a finalist and all I had to do to get my poem published was pay a $200 publishing fe.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

They're like, congratulations, girl, you won. We need 200.

[B]

Yeah, give us some money first, and then we'll be fine.

[A]

Contests are a scam, y', all, because that's the thing about being alive as a human being, is you want validation, you want recognition. And so we all love a contest. We. We get excited for a medal and an award.

[B]

I want to be a winner.

[A]

I want to be a winner, and

[B]

so give me my trophy.

[A]

I just want to know who has the ambition to realize, like, I'm gonna start contests. Like, that's gonna be my career. I'm gonna make winners also. Who's the.

[B]

Like, if you're not, like. Let me just pose this question. If you're not starting contests as a grift and you are just genuinely a contest starter, what's up with you? That's like, the person that I want to meet, you know, who's like, yeah, no, no, I just want to provide opportunity for people to win. Like, what?

[A]

Yeah, and mostly for people to lose, because that's like, the best contest is the one. You know, the Nobel Prize is the ones where the girls don't really get to win, you know, and it's like, oh, I won after so many people lost. So it is. It's a chaotic. Is it lawful evil baby?

[B]

Sure. Yeah.

[A]

It just feels chaotic. So she says, I was a baby, and I didn't really know how much that money cost.

[B]

Oh, figuratively a baby. She's. She's not literally saying she was a baby.

[A]

Well, she was saying at the time she was a baby.

[B]

Yeah, but not an actual.

[A]

No, a literal infant baby. Kathy.

[B]

That's your first problem.

[A]

That's why she got recognized. They were like, infants can write poetry. Yeah.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So she Said I didn't really know how much 200 was, but I sure knew that I didn't have it. It was almost Christmas time, so I figured I would ask my mom if this could be my Christmas gift.

[B]

A, you know,

[A]

not you making scams. Your Christmas gift. Listen, I tweeted this earlier and it got a lot of responses, which turned out to be trauma.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

But like, how this.

[B]

It almost always is, right?

[A]

How did. How did Santa Claus get ruined for you? And my answer was my grandmother told me straight to my face. She was like, I ain't let no old white man take credit for my work.

[B]

I'm Santa Claus.

[A]

And I was like, okay, well, that's that. And a lot of people told me they cried or they felt found their mother's handwriting and were like, I know what's happening. I do think it's fun that we lie to children.

[B]

Yeah, why not?

[A]

You know, give them trust issues early.

[B]

Yeah. Give them something to think about for the rest of their lives.

[A]

I love how they find out. It's so indicative of your personality. Like, some people told me they were like, hanging out, out by the stairs watching their parents, you know, wrapped the presents. And like, I was like, oh, so you was a whole spy? Some people were like, I saw a Santa tracker on tv and I was like, that nigga can't get to my house in time. So you're Liam Neeson. Okay.

[B]

Right. You have a special set of skills,

[A]

watching TV and tracking Santa Claus. So I love it. So she's about to make her Christmas a scam. She says. A few hours later, my mom and grandma sat me down and explained. Explain to like, the scam to me. I was crushed and embarrassed, but I got over it. It got me thinking about how grown ups people who actually had the 200 to spend could get fooled by this. And why is this even legal to be a scam? So I agree with you, Kathy. I'm sorry. And I'm also glad that your mom and your grandma are true scammers who are like, why are we sending 200 for them to publish something that people will buy? Girl, no.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. That's not a thing. Publishing fees, it's not a thing.

[A]

That's the whole reason you have a publisher. Is they supposed to pay the fees?

[B]

They pay the fees.

[A]

That's how they make the money. Like these, these, you know, middlemen, companies. That's their whole job is to be in the middle.

[B]

If there's like an entry fee for a contest, it's up top, you know, And it's like under $50, you know.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So, like, if you enter a thing and then they want you to pay, that's always when I'm like, no, thank you. You know?

[A]

Right. Because the entropy up top does make sense. Because it's like, okay, we gotta pay somebody to read these hoes. Like, somebody transparent, right? But if it's like, oh, you won, now give us money.

[B]

Yeah, now give us money. Like, no, no, no, no, no.

[A]

It's shady.

[B]

But also it's like getting on the prices, right? And getting to the, like, showcase showdown. And then they're like, okay, so it's like $1500 to claim your prize. And you're like, wait, what a minute. What a minute. That's not a phrase. But, you know, what a minute.

[A]

I like, what a minute. What a minute. What a minute. No, we need what for a minute?

[B]

What? What, what, what, What?

[A]

And on that note, we're going to take a break for some non scam advertisements, scams, cons. And we are back and it's time for my favorite part of this show, Historic Hoodwinks. This is where I'm going to regale Ria with a historic hoodwink. And we're going to get their opinions and their thoughts the whole way out. And let's just see what shakes out. I'm excited. So today we're talking about Wolfgang Bella tracky.

[B]

I love this already because I feel like Lacy, it's already a callback to your coyote issue. Just a Wolfgang coming for you.

[A]

Yes. And it's a Wolfgang Beltracky. Shout out to.

[B]

That sounds like a Santa tracker. Like, what's happening here? This is like, I don't know, the conversation we've already had. I know, I know. This is like a person's name, but it feels like a weird. Like somebody wrote this name based on what they heard us talking about.

[A]

Right? It really does.

[B]

18 minutes.

[A]

Also, like the audacity of your parents to name you Wolfgang. Like, you have to just have some nerve to name your kid Wolfgang. And now I feel like I need to name my children.

[B]

That's Eddie Van Halen's kid's name is Wolfgang Van Halen. Can you imagine?

[A]

Audacity. Audacity.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's how you know Liz. They were like, look, I'm so famous. My kid will never have to work in life. I will name them.

[B]

They'll never have to work in life.

[A]

Apple and Wolfgang. That's what you do when you're rich. He's very rich. So he's a German art Forager, an artist who has admitted to forging hundreds of paintings in the international art scam, netting millions of euros. I always say art is a scam. I feel like it's just like comedy, just having the audacity to think that, like, oh, I make good things with my hands. I will sell them for money. It's just like me being like, oh, I have good thoughts with my brain. I will sell them for money. Like, it's dumb and it's audacious of us, but also, I feel like there's a lot of money laundering that happens in art. You know, you go to Art Basel,

[B]

a lot of pillaging,

[A]

you know, a lot. Museums just be like, this. All the shit we stole. That's literally museums. They'd be like, we shot. We stole all this from. Y' all want to see innocent glass on display?

[B]

And they're like, pay 15. Pay us your entry fee.

[A]

Also donate, because it's class. You want to see the.

[B]

You want to see the human bodies that we stole from where they. They wanted to be left for the rest of eternity. That's going to be another $40.

[A]

Why are we always digging up people? It's like, dug up your granny and was like, oh, look at these pearls she got on. You would be offended. You'd be like, this is wrong. So upset.

[B]

And I. I will say this, I am upset. Like, that there was a recent mummy opening, and everybody was like, oh, my God, 2020, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I just was like, I don't think I saw it for the first time, but that time I saw it in a way that I maybe hadn't seen it before, because, like, you know, raised in this thing, raised in colonial, raised in all of it, you know, mummies are quite literally shoved in your face all the time as, like, a kid. It's like mummies and dinosaurs, you know, like, they're just very into it. And to really go like, wait a minute, this is like. This is a person. This. This is literally a person. This is not like a sculpture. It's not a painting. It's not a representation of a person. There's a person in there, and people are like, oh, open it up. Like, it's so creepy.

[A]

Why would you do that?

[B]

We are such weird animals.

[A]

Stop digging people up. It's weird. Stop digging people up. It's weird. And, yeah, you're right.

[B]

Time capsule. There's not like, you know, the NBA Dream Team basketball cards in there and a penny and, like, a newspaper. It's a person.

[A]

We're Learning about history. And it's like, no, you just want to drive tourism up. Like, this is weird. Put these niggas back in the ground. Like, what's happening? That's where they went.

[B]

They were done.

[A]

Also, like, how long. How long until. Because, like, people like to say exhume. They give us language to be like, this is okay, because they're not going to be like, digging up this dead nigga. That's rude. Then when we exhumed them. And how long before you can be exhumed? You know, because obviously, if you have a few.

[B]

What's the time frame?

[A]

Yeah, like, if it. Is it 50 years? Is it 100 years?

[B]

I think it's actually, like, this is just my opinion. I don't really. I think it's actually once. Once the shovel leaves, then when a new shovel comes back, that's exhumed. Like, that's. That's what I think. But I don't know. I'm not the expert, but that is chaotic.

[A]

It's like we can dig anybody up.

[B]

And we will, we will, we shall.

[A]

Oh, those. Those actually are my favorite robbers, though. The grave robbers.

[B]

Grave robbers, yeah.

[A]

It's a lot of work.

[B]

The grave robber barons, you mean?

[A]

Like, this is so disgusting. I'm like, they had to dig through six feet of dirt to try to get maybe a watch. Like, let them live. So Wolfgang. I'm not gonna say his last name anymore. Y' all are gonna drag me. Anyway, so Wolfgang, whose original name was Wolfgang Fisher. Oh, so he changed his name to this. Okay, so he was born in 1951 in West Central Germany. Okay.

[B]

Oh, I thought this dude was like a. I thought we were talking like an 1887 dude here.

[A]

I thought we was olden times.

[B]

This is a Contemporary dude, right?

[A]

1951 Ain't that long ago.

[B]

That's modern.

[A]

So his father was a house PA Painter and restorer of churches who supplemented his income by producing cheap copies of Rembrandts. I love that. I love that. He was like, yeah, I paint houses also. I'll page you a fake Rembrandt. We do. We're diverse. So Wolfgang inherited his dad's skill with a brush and took it to a new level. At 14, he astonished his father by painting a Picasso that was really passable in a single day. A mother and child from the blue period. In quotes, adding to his, like, original flourish, fishes. Okay, so during the 1970s and early 80s, young Wolfgang Fisher led a nomadic life. Nomadic, yeah. Life of a scammer.

[B]

Gotta move around, Gotta move around. Keep it fresh.

[A]

You need to ask people how many times they've moved, okay? Like, whenever you get a new apartment, they're like, how many times have you moved? Like, tell us your last three landlords, and do they like you, girl? And you need to ask that of your spouses, because if they're moving a lot, they might be scamming. Like, why do you need to move so much?

[B]

Why you got to move around markets, right?

[A]

Like, you're moving a lot and we're concerned. So he spent a year and a half on a beach in Morocco and lived in a commune in Spain. He drifted around Barcelona, London, Paris, buying, selling paintings at antique markets. He lived on a houseboat in Amsterdam where he put his psychedelic light shows up at a Paradiso nightclub. This man is giving chaos. And, yeah, I love it. I feel like he's moving.

[B]

He was also, like, doing his own thing, you know? It's like. It's like at any moment, he could have just like, gone after his own career as an artist. You know what I mean? Like, at any moment could just, like, pursue making things, you know, creating things as opposed to, like, mimicking things.

[A]

That's the thing about scammers, though, is that most of them would actually be very talented in the fields that they've chose to scam in. But instead they choose lies. Like, no, we like lies and we choose lies.

[B]

I mean, it is easier.

[A]

I don't know if it's easier. It's very stress inducing to constantly be worried that you're being found out.

[B]

Like, yeah, but. Well, I mean, but you're not lying at the level that they're lying.

[A]

That's true. I mean, you're right. I'm not there.

[B]

There's a certain amount that you can spin yourself around in a web of lies that you're like, this is the truth, you know? Like, I think at least. I don't know. I don't think.

[A]

I mean, I say that all the time to people. Like, the truth is what you believe it is. If you say something enough, it becomes the truth. And I know that's what it is, but damn, he's just moving all the time. I think he was probably getting found out, too. Cause, like, you get found out, you move like you're a liar. You're like, yeah, okay, my U Haul's out front. Thanks.

[B]

Yeah, gotta go.

[A]

Beep, beep. Had a good time. This was cute. Bye. Bye. So Wolfgang had a partner in crime. So he met his partner Helena in an editing trailer. Her boss at the time was Funding a documentary for him. Why are you doing documentaries? Wolfgang, what's going on?

[B]

Diversifying that portfolio.

[A]

He was just painting and buying painting. Now you're doing okay. So they married and he took her last name. Very Zoe Saldana. Sure. Very Zoe Saldana. I like that. Whoever I marry will take my last name. We're gonna be most ghostly forever. So. No, I like that for you. So Helenine. Helenine. Why can't I say her name? Helena.

[B]

I love it.

[A]

H E L E N E. Is that Helen?

[B]

It might be Helene. I don't know Helene.

[A]

Is it Helene Collins? Like. Yes. Colin's British, so I'm gonna. I'm gonna rely on that. Okay. So, Helene, we're gonna go.

[B]

Sure. Yeah. You're crushing it. It.

[A]

Rhea, I'm leaving.

[B]

Bye. Bye.

[A]

I'm getting my things and I'm going. So they were at his home, and she noticed the paintings of a number of famous 20th century artists hanging on the wall. I asked him, this is Helen. She says, are all these actually real? And he said, they are mine. I made them.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Okay. That didn't answer my question, but okay. And I said, so you're an art counterfeiter? And he said, exactly. That's my work. That's my metier. Okay.

[B]

Wow. Yeah.

[A]

See?

[B]

Convinced that that's, like, the thing, you know? I mean, it is a real thing. He's doing it.

[A]

I mean, you can make a career out of anything. And I talk about that all the time. You can make.

[B]

I mean, that's capitalism, baby. You can make a career out of anything. You just, like, you create the supply and then you make a demand. You know what I mean? Or you find the demand and you're like, I can make this supply, I think.

[A]

Right?

[B]

It's like, that's the whole. It's like. I mean, I don't know how economics works at all, but I need to

[A]

come to your TED Talk because that was just. That was excellent.

[B]

That's pretty much it.

[A]

I don't know what you said, but I liked it.

[B]

I mean, it's always. They're always talking about how it's supply and demand, and it's like, no, man, they create the demand and then we figure out the supply. That's. That's. That's how it works, you know? Which is why I don't like it.

[A]

I love it. I love it.

[B]

You love capitalism. Things I like.

[A]

I love capitalism. Racism, glasses, the cops. I love the cops.

[B]

Gotta love the cops.

[A]

Oh, but cops are the best.

[B]

Cops are the best. Anybody that clips this out. Like, we are 100% kidding.

[A]

Yes, please. Oh, God. I may have to edit that out of the show. Everyone knows I don't like the cops. They know it. Although I'm. I'm teetering because I'm getting to a point where I'm like, maybe I should, like, get one of those blue lives. Thin blue line, like, American flag stickers for my car.

[B]

Huh?

[A]

When I get pulled over.

[B]

So they'll leave you alone. Yeah.

[A]

I mean, dude, that's why people put

[B]

that on there, you know, like, when I was growing. I don't know if this is the case anymore, but. But I remember people getting, like, the FOP sticker. Speaking of scams, like, the. Do you know what I'm talking about? FOP stands for Fraternal Order of Police. So it's like, not the union. It's like their own little, you know. Yeah. On top.

[A]

Like, police.

[B]

Police. Yeah. It's also fop, which is very funny. But, like, you could. You could donate money, and then you would get that sticker, and you put it on your windshield. And that was like, my dad, somebody told me they were like, people get those so they don't get pulled over. They don't get tickets.

[A]

Yeah, I've heard.

[B]

And now it's just, like, evolved into this, like. I mean, it's just grown and morphed and turned.

[A]

I've heard of the idea of that, because I know on another podcast, Miles Gray was telling me that they used to give out, like, little plaques that you could put around your. Your. What are they called? License plate.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So you could put a little plaque around your license plate. That was like, I give money to the popo. And then, like, won't pull. I love you, daddy Popo. And I love you. You wouldn't get pulled over. And so.

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

That's why, as a scammer, I'm like, it's so much cheaper to not donate to the police and just get a thin blue line sticker and hope that that works.

[B]

295. That might do it.

[A]

Listen, I get pulled over, I'm like, I love racism. I hate being a woman.

[B]

Hate myself. Don't give me a ticket.

[A]

The blacks, I hate them. I am one. But I also hate them. Is this working? I'll do anything. I'll do anything to stay alive. Oh, God. How did we get on this tangent? So it's my fault. It's truly my fault.

[B]

So I think I brought up the FOP stickers. So I take as much responsibility, and

[A]

I appreciate that from you like, Please lay on the sword with me.

[B]

I will.

[A]

Let's lay together. Oh, let's cuddle on the sword. Sure.

[B]

Sword play.

[A]

Oh, I like that. So, so shortly after this revelation, Wolfgang asked Helene. God, I can't say her name. To become an accomplice. So he was like, helena, Helene, Helen, whatever, y' all know, the girl was like, are you a scammer? And he was like, yes, I am. I absolutely am. I love robbery. And then he was like, would you like to join me, Sis? Like, would you like to join me? And she was like, maybe. So soon afterwards she noticed that Limpert's a high end auction house in Colleen. There's so many things I can't say in this episode. God. That they had a painting for sale, early 20th century, like French cubist George Balmer. And I remember French cubism. I remember learning about that in school. It was popping. So they settled on 20,000 Deutsch marks, about $12,000 in our money. It was a modest amount, but as the mark, the art market, like heated up the value. So sword for this painting, a few years later, it sold at an auction in New York for $1 million. So this feels like they were kind of combining legitimate purchases and also bootlegging, which I like, I like a lot. Three years later, Helene introduced the art world to a collection that she claimed she had inherited recently from a deceased industrialist grandfather. So that's where Helen comes in. That is helpful. Like, this scam requires a show. So to break it down, you've got Wolfgang, who is a bootlegger. He knows how to bootleg the paintings. He knows how to make the girls think it's real. And then he's got this white woman and she comes in and she's like, I'm white. I'm a white woman and I've inherited goods as a white woman. This is plausible. Don't look into me.

[B]

And they won't, of course, because she's a white lady. Why would you look into that?

[A]

I bet she's glamorous. She's giving me glamour.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I can't even say her name.

[B]

She wears gloves, you know, like elbow length gloves.

[A]

Right. For no reason. During the day it's 90 degrees out and sis has got gloves on and they're like, she's not sweating. This is so impressive.

[B]

I believe everything she says.

[A]

I believe everything she says. And I love her. So I'm into this. So she comes in and she's like, I got this collection. My grandfather died. Buy from me. So the game, credibility. Wolfgang Staged a black and white photograph of Helen impersonating her grandmother. Posed in front of several paintings from this collection.

[B]

Wow. Wow.

[A]

The production value.

[B]

This is like a movie. Like they made a movie, you know,

[A]

you gonna be your own grandma. We gonna take some photos of you.

[B]

This is like Back to the Future part two or something, you know, I love it.

[A]

I love the production value. This is wonderful. So the photo was slightly out of focus and printed on pre war developing paper. So that's how they get away with this too. Because it's like, okay, we're gonna make this hole a little blurry and we're gonna print it on some parchment. Okay. We're gonna give the girls parchment and we're gonna put it in the oven so it's gonna look extra.

[B]

Gonna burn it on the stove like it's a pirate's map.

[A]

I'm gonna get my lighter out and we're gonna burn the edges. Happens to old photos that get burned on the edges.

[B]

Get burnt on the edges. They're like a pop tart.

[A]

Why did we decide that for old photos? We all collectively decided like if it's a old photo, it's got to be burnt on the edges. Cuz everybody in the past had a little fire happening, honey.

[B]

Everybody's just toasting photos, just keeping them warm.

[A]

And we've all collectively decided that's what's like. Yep, put a little tea on it. Cuz also they going to be brown. That's what old happens. It's brown.

[B]

Put tea on the there and if you want, you can write a message in lemon juice and then people will read it later. If you hold it over a toaster.

[A]

That's real. Oh, okay. Like why did we decide this?

[B]

So what a collective decision we made.

[A]

We did. And we all agree every movie we're like old chi burnt. Yes.

[B]

So looks old.

[A]

Looks old to me. So Werner Spies, the former director of modern art museum at the Pompadour. God, there are so many words I can't say in here. Center in Paris, made a pilgrimage to the couple's home so that he could inspect the painting. So basically the big bad bitch of painting, the guy who also is a scammer. Because here's the thing, there's certain careers that you go into because you wild like handwriting experts. The fuck?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like you just decided that you know how to read handwriting better than everybody else. That's a scam. That's a scam. Yeah, like you were like, oh, they didn't dot the I the same way. It's Me, the handwriting expert. I'm in court. I, Solomon, swear to tell the truth and the whole truth. Me, the handwriting expert. Like the. So you decided your whole career was gonna be art decider? He was like, no, I decide what's art.

[B]

I decide. I am God, the arrogance. I make these choices.

[A]

Yeah, the arrogance of it all.

[B]

So maybe that's who decided that old photos are burnt up on the edges. Maybe he was the. The art decider for photos.

[A]

I think you're right.

[B]

Agreed with it.

[A]

I think you're right. And we all just. That's the thing as a person. It's exhausting to be. And sometimes you just want people to tell you what to do.

[B]

Just tell me what to think.

[A]

And so you're like, oh, tell me what to be. This man said that this is art. Okay, I. I'm just gonna believe that. It's too much time, too much critical thinking to go anywhere else. So he comes in, he took one look and was overcome with excitement by Helen's painting collection. He declared that there was no doubt that they were authentic. Him, a man. Wow. And so the painting was sold to an art dealer for about 1.8 million euros.

[B]

What?

[A]

$2.3 million. Every time I think about other money, I feel disrespected as an American. I've never truly been more embarrassed than when I went to London to live there for three months, and I gave them my money at the exchange and they gave me money back. And I said, wait a minute, I didn't give you rupees. I. I didn't give you pesos. What's going on?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I was like, this is half of what I gave you. They were like, the dollars a week. I was like, oh, my God.

[B]

And you were like, how dare you?

[A]

How dare you? I'm American.

[B]

I was like, this is the only currency that exists.

[A]

It's the best money.

[B]

They were like, we invented money.

[A]

I said, get this dirty ass money out of here.

[B]

Did they hold it like this with just two fingers?

[A]

Right. They didn't want to touch it. Like, we hate you. We hate you. And I was truly embarrassed. I was America's trash. And that's when I learned. That's when I first got woke to us being trash. Like, oh, so getting caught.

[B]

Oh, here it is. Third act.

[A]

That makes me sad. So basically, Helene's sister brought another painting to the auction house. House. So now she got her sister involved. She was like, it's a family affair.

[B]

Getting that circle too big. That's the problem. You get too many people in the crew. And then you got leaks. You got leaks and problems.

[A]

I don't know because like in this scam you kind of need other people. Because you can't just be a person who has inherited so much expensive art. Like, people are gonna start looking at you funny after, you know, you come to the auction house, everybody. 12 times, 20 people have died. No, no, this time my great, great cousin died. My great great cousin. It's a big family and he also had Picassos. He did. All my family did.

[B]

We all love art.

[A]

My great, great, great niece. I. I hear how that doesn't make sense, but she died. My. She died. And she was old, but she was my niece and she had art. So it's like, yeah, you got to kind of get other people involved. Cuz you can't keep doing that. So then this art sells for like 2.8 million euros, which is like $3.6 million. And it's the highest price ever paid for the work by a German expressionist. So the girls are going to talk, you know, especially the German girls, They're going to be like, wait a minute, we did it. Like, yay. And so then unexpectedly, the buyer demanded that Lynn Pertz provide a certificate of. Of authenticity.

[B]

How was this not lacy? How did they get this far? I mean, obviously there was that dude who was willing to come look and then just go like, so it looks good to me

[A]

who just shows up

[B]

and it's like, yep, looks good to me. And then it just leaves. But like, how, how is, how did it take this long for like. I would like a certificate of authenticity, please.

[A]

What is a certificate of authenticity anyway? What is that?

[B]

Isn't it like another person who inspects the art and they like actually scientifically look at the thing. They don't mean nothing. I know, I know, but it's like, well, it's like. What's the word? Forensics.

[A]

Oh, they test the paint. They see how old the paint is.

[B]

Yeah, that kind of stuff.

[A]

Like they oxidize it a little bit. They like, there's that.

[B]

And then I feel like they also do like actual research and they like, like they, they like look up information from people to authent.

[A]

You have authenticated the certificate of authenticity for me that now I believe, now I believe they need to work.

[B]

I watch a lot of American pickers, so this is where I've gotten that information from. Okay.

[A]

Yes. I've always wanted to go on an antique rose show and just pull up and be like, they're like, what are you showing? I'M like, me, I'm the antique. I'm a product of slavery. So look, I'm the antique. How much? So just make everyone uncomfortable.

[B]

Super. Just a bunch of white people, very uncomfortable.

[A]

Just like, ah, like, well, you priced that spoon now. Now, me, I was bought and sold. So let's talk about how much.

[B]

What's the price now? How about the inflation?

[A]

Yeah, I think I should be worth more now for sure. Like, just make them so uncomfortable.

[B]

Damn, dude, that's. Have you ever written that as a sketch? That's a great sketch.

[A]

I have so many what I call Dave Chappelle sketches in my head that I'm like, I want to write, but I'm also like, will white people be laughing at me? And then will this destroy the culture? So I just don't. I just say them on this podcast.

[B]

Yes, save them.

[A]

Which I'm like, don't. No one listen. But they are listening.

[B]

So I get it. I get it. Work it out, you know, Work it out.

[A]

So he was like, I want the authentication girls. And they were like, so this prompted a scientific. And. Oh, you see, you said scientific before we even got to it. Ria, you said this.

[B]

Look at that.

[A]

They. This prompted a scientific investigation that determined that the painting and the two others were counterfeit.

[B]

Yep. Forensics.

[A]

We hate to see it in a laboratory. Chemist. See. Oh, damn. Are you art? Do you work at art?

[B]

No, but I mean, I did go to art school, so I kind of knew about it.

[A]

Okay, see, I knew. I knew it was something. You went to art school. Cause I'm like, you knew too much. I didn't tell Ria about this before. And they have guessed everything. I guessed a lot. And this is also firm proof that I don't read these beforehand. And you know that I told you guys. Yes. I want to be on the ride with you. I don't want to. Yeah, I want to be here with you.

[B]

It's more fun.

[A]

It is. So this prompted a scientific investigation that determined that the paintings were counterfeit. Right. In a laboratory, chemists decided that the work contained a pigment, titanium white, that did not exist in 1914.

[B]

There you go. That's what I'm talking about. How. That's what I'm.

[A]

Literally didn't exist in 19.

[B]

Wow. Oh, my God. Wow. I thought all the white is just writing itself. Lazy.

[A]

I'm a white that didn't exist in 1914. Oh. So that's what I say when I get pulled over. So when. When the two. Within two weeks, 15 more paintings with fraudulent flechem. I hate my life. There's so many words I can't pronounce in here. So basically, within two weeks, 15 more paintings with fraudulent white painting appeared. They were like, let's test all the paintings. And they were like, oh, all the girls are fake.

[B]

Oh, no, they're all bad.

[A]

So one was the Forest. Duh. And Steve Martin actually participated in this scam. Our beloved Steve Martin.

[B]

These Steve Martin.

[A]

These Steve Martin from those movies that I can't remember right now. But the jerk, the ones with all the kids. He had all the kids in the movie.

[B]

Oh, yeah. Eight is enough Biggers doesn't something else I can't remember. It's a remake, right? I all Father of the bride now, right?

[A]

Father of the bride and me and so many kids.

[B]

Like, I don't know.

[A]

I don't know what the movie is.

[B]

What is that damn movie?

[A]

I can't think of. I gave my semen out so much. The movie. I don't know what it's called.

[B]

Cheaper by the Dozen.

[A]

Cheaper by the Dozen. So it wasn't. I nutted so many times.

[B]

Oh, God.

[A]

I get dragged on the show all the time for not remembering movies like Gifted Hands, which I called Baby Tiny Hands for so long. So I'm trash. It's fine. So Steve Martin, the real Steve Martin, he paid $860,000 in 2004 for a counterfeit painting called Landscape with Horse.

[B]

Whoa.

[A]

What a flex.

[B]

That's a lot of money.

[A]

We give Steve Martin too much money.

[B]

Yeah, dude, that's a lot of money. Lacey, a lot of people have a lot of money.

[A]

They have too much money. It's time for us to go and act like the repo man. As a country, we need to repo the money.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We gave Jeff Bezos too much money. How? You still the richest and you got divorced and she took half. You still the richest. That's too much money.

[B]

Like, I've got all the money still.

[A]

Like, we just. I'm sorry. We need to repo the money. We need to. I don't know what happened to the Bastille Days when we, you know, storm we being the French, storm the bestie, and we're like, no, give us our back, but we don't want to do that anymore. And personally, I know as black who has protested a lot during this pandemic, I realized in myself that I was trying to bargain. We got to 12 miles in on the Black Lives Matter protest, and I was like, did we reach freedom? Did we get it? No, we ain't Got nothing. We just. We just did this, and nobody. Okay, well, can we bargain? I was like, maybe I just don't pay taxes to the police because they gonna kill me. So maybe I just. They give me a discount. No, Like, I. I shouldn't.

[B]

I mean, we got to get something, you know?

[A]

Like, I couldn't lead the revolution if there was a civil war, which I was very scared might actually happen with this Trump presidency. I can't be shooting people. I'mma hand out water. It's on the corner.

[B]

Yeah, dude, but that's a noble thing,

[A]

you know, I like, Y' all need a tourniquet. Y' all need a snack. I got Gatorade.

[B]

Like, I got granola bars. Anybody hungry? Yes.

[A]

Okay, look, we all need to take a break from killing whitey.

[B]

Here's some hand sanitizer, a little bit of water, and some fruit snacks.

[A]

I'm not gonna actually be in the race war. I can't do that. I'm scared.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So how did I get on this tangent? Oh, Steve Martin.

[B]

Yeah, it makes perfect sense.

[A]

It adds up. So Steve Martin, he bought this ridiculously expensive painting. That's a man with a hors. Cute. So that painting is also fake. So Steve. Sorry. They also found out that the labels he found had been artificially aged with. Do you want to guess? Rhea?

[B]

Burning oven with tea and burning tea is correct.

[A]

Coffee and tea.

[B]

Coffee and tea. Nice.

[A]

Wow. Why are we so right about this? So they had aged these labels. They were like, put some tea on it. The girls love tea. They love tea. They know it's old when there's tea. So they also. The investigators also eavesdropped on a conversation between Wolfgang and his son Manuel. Then 22, sounding calm, Wolfgang told his son to destroy two computers filled with evidence. I love that.

[B]

I love that. I keep forgetting that this is very recent, right?

[A]

Because I'm like, computers.

[B]

I'm like, oh, right. This is not from the 40s.

[A]

This is like, now I do, too, because I'm like, computers. Somebody computer. Steve Martin. He's still alive.

[B]

Don't you mean typewriters? Throw out those typewriters with all the counterfeit information in them, Right?

[A]

Throw out those handwritten letters with the ink pen with the quill. Like, burn the quill letters.

[B]

Burn your quills.

[A]

I wish I could have wrote with a quill. I have terrible handwriting, but I feel like writing with a quill feels fancy. So random thought, jail time. In a long, rambling, theatrical confession, Wolfgang described his youthful indulgences as drugs and rock and Roll. He attacked the greed and arrogance of the art market and admitted that the deception had been and great fun.

[B]

What a fun time.

[A]

I love when a scammer will just be like, it was fun. I'd do it again.

[B]

It was fun. Yeah. Can I ask you a question? Like, you just said, you're bad with movies, but have you seen the movie can youn Ever Forgive Me? Mm, mm, mm. That's about counterfeit, too. It's really good.

[A]

Oh, wait, I have seen it. That's the one where she write the.

[B]

The letter.

[A]

That movie was boring.

[B]

I liked it a lot. I won't disagree with you that it was boring, but I liked it.

[A]

I was like, y' all really got me right? Reading.

[B]

Watching somebody write a letter over and

[A]

over and over again, over and over and over again. They were like, oh, she's got different paper. Ooh, look at this paper. Ooh, scary.

[B]

I did, like, when she had to break out of the library with a piece of paper, which was kind of cool.

[A]

It was very British. I was like, this is British. Like, y' all be liking boring stuff. The crown is boring. Okay. And will I watch it? Absolutely.

[B]

Is it boring?

[A]

For sure. I watched a scene where they were cleaning the chair, and they. Then they were brushing this chair so hard. And I. At one point, I realized. I was like, how long have they been cleaning this chair? And how long have I been watching? Right?

[B]

What have I. How did I get here?

[A]

How did I get here? They brushing the chair. I'm like, you missed a spot. Who.

[B]

Who are you?

[A]

The whole episode is, she need to get a tutor. The whole episode is flatware and I'm watching.

[B]

She needs the tutor. See? To tutor. That's funny.

[A]

Even watching, like, because it's supposed to be based in truth. And then googling and being like, oh, what was the tea like? What were the girls really doing? I was like, the whole scandal was like, he had some sex. Sex.

[B]

That's always what it is.

[A]

He has some consensual sex. That's a scandal.

[B]

What? Like, which scandal are you talking about? Is that Charles or what? I haven't watched this.

[A]

No, it's the one where Prince Charles. No, no, Prince Philip was getting his back rubbed. I'm gonna tell it. Very ghostly. He was getting his back rubbed by this. Who's like a chiropractor. And he was like, I do all the girls backs. I do the famous bags. I'm here. And then he. And then after he got his back rubbed and his neck. Neck tweaked, he was like, thank you so much. And the chiropractor was like, you want to come to my parties? Also, I'm a painter. I'll be painting. You want to come? And he was like, okay, Alex, I'll pull up. And then they have him in a photo, but it's just the back of his head. And everybody's like, is that you? And he's like, no, that's not me. But they like that look like your shoulders. Anyway, the guy gets in the scandal because he was living with some sex workers, which, like, sex work, not a scandal. Like, come on. It's old as metusola. Let's get over this. It's weird. It's all weird. It's giving weird. And then. Then the guy was like, I'm so disgraced. The neck guy. He was like, I got to kill myself. And then he killed himself. And then they found paintings of him, of Prince Philip in his house. And they were like, philip, why you got these paintings in here? Was you over there that he painted you? What?

[B]

Oh, my God. A bunch of repressed billionaires.

[A]

That's all it is.

[B]

I was like, this repressed billionaire.

[A]

Y' all are all just repressed. What's happening? This is not a scandal.

[B]

Live your life. Go walk around. We caught her.

[A]

We caught him being human. We caught him being human, and we put it on the news.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Oh, I love it here. Oh, jail time. And. Oh. Oh. I went on this tangent, and I remember why I did. I just want to shout out Anna Delvey, which is the first episode of the show. At the end of that episode, there is a quote from her in the courtroom where she says, I am not a good person. And it's my favorite quote of anyone I've ever heard. Like, that kind of honesty, reckless honesty with yourself, of being like, I'm not a good person, and just being fine with it.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

I love it. So. I love. I love that Wolfgang was like. It was fun. We had a good time. There were drinks.

[B]

It worked. Until it didn't.

[A]

Right? And I love it for him. So in return for admitting to court to have forged 14 paintings. Why you gotta go to jail for this? This.

[B]

This is.

[A]

No one should go to jail for fortune art. It's dumb.

[B]

I know.

[A]

Also, we pay for jail. That's your taxpayer dollars for.

[B]

Nobody should really go to jail. But that's a whole nother podcast, right?

[A]

Abolish the prisons. But also, like, at least the dumb sentences. Like, that's the thing about rich people is if you trick rich people, you will Go down. We've talked about that with Rudy. Rudy was the guy who foraged all the wine. Said it was old wine, but he was just cooking it like it was stir fry in his kitchen. Wow. He also burnt things and put tea on them to make them look old.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And he went to jail for it. And I'm like, no, we should have helped that nigga open a winery. He was good at wine, put it to good use.

[B]

Yeah. This guy should be teaching people how to paint.

[A]

Right. He's an excellent artist. Excellent. What are we doing? So he admitted that he foraged all these. And Wolfgang and his wife Helene Helena. Hee hee hee, hee, ho, ho. He, he, he. That's her name. They received J time of just six and four years, respectively. Providing that they remain gainfully employed, they will be. Wait, no. They will be confined to prison only a night. So basically, they got six and four years. And they were like, well, if you keep a job, we just won't make you to go to jail at all. Which is what should happen.

[B]

Well, I mean, I'm. I'm also feeling feelings about that. You know what I mean? It's like, look, Lacy, we contain multitudes. You know? Like, I can a be like, yes, abolish prisons. But wait a minute. These two white people got prison sentences, and then all they had to do was promise to go get a job, and then they didn't have to go. That's also fucked up.

[A]

That's my kind of fucked up. Listen, that's too much.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

I thought Felicity Huffman got too much time, and I talked about it on abc. I think that she should have paid restitution that went directly to college funds for marginalized children. She should not have gone to jail on our dime. I don't want to see a white woman in jail. I mean, I don't want to see any woman in jail, especially not black people or whatever. Right? But I was like, no, get this white woman out of there. She don't belong there. So it's a light punishment for a crime of this magnitude. And they were released earlier than expected for good behavior. And I love it. They shouldn't have gone to jail in the first place, so I'm not gonna be mad at it. Oh, guys, I'm so sad because we're going to an ad break. Not because I don't love ads. I love ads. But because when we come back, it's gonna be the end of the show.

[B]

It is.

[A]

See you guys in a second. Robbery and fraud. And we are back and yes, it's that tragic time where I have to let Rhea go.

[B]

Yeah, you gotta let me go.

[A]

I have to let you go.

[B]

If you love something, let it go. Yeah. Know. Yeah.

[A]

See, I don't agree with that. If you love something, hold it tight. Squeeze the life out of it.

[B]

Hold it tight till it dies.

[A]

Until it dies. I'm leaving. Oh, gosh. So today's scammer of the week is a TikTok creator. So a Lincoln man lost $3,000 after his daughter scammed through TikTok. So Lincoln Police reported one scam through the social app TikTok where a man lost three. The man reported that his bank called him and said that he owed the money because his daughter's account was overdrawn. How you. How you overdrawn on TikTok? They got money on.

[B]

I think that's where the scam lies, Lacey.

[A]

I know they had money on there. What's happening? So his 15 year old daughter said that she had received a message on TikTok saying that she had gained enough followers to start making money. So to receive the money, she gave her father's banking information through the. Yeah.

[B]

Oh, no.

[A]

This is not how money works. People don't. If. First of all, we live in America. Nobody wants to pay you for anything. No one.

[B]

They do not.

[A]

No one wants to pay you for your work. If they can get your work for free, they will. They will never reach out to you and say, hey, here's money, girl.

[B]

Hey, you did it. Here's the money for the thing you didn't sign up to do.

[A]

And especially as an artist. And that's the thing about being an artist that people don't realize is like, people think our lives are glamorous and like, everyone bonds and loves us. No, being an artist is part doing art and part fighting everyone.

[B]

Yeah, pretty much.

[A]

And fighting nicely. You gotta fight with a smile.

[B]

You gotta stay kind.

[A]

No heart emoji blindness. That's being an artist. Because no one wants to pay you. Everyone wants to hoe you. Everyone wants to hoe you out.

[B]

They really do.

[A]

And you do it in the beginning. We all do it. We're like, I guess I gotta put on my boots today and get hoed. Because it's what's happening. And then you get to a point where you work so much or you get older and you're like, wait a minute, wait, you should pay me for

[B]

this or I'm not gonna do it anymore.

[A]

Right. I used to just do shit for free. Cause people ask nicely, like, what yeah. Yes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I hate it here. So no one will ever reach out to you on TikTok and be like, ooh, time for you to have money. No one will do that.

[B]

Yeah, time for you to have money. Give us your bank account information.

[A]

You know, for the money.

[B]

You're not. I'm not gonna give you mine. You give me yours and then we'll see.

[A]

You should have known. So she sold her father up the river, gave his banking information. By the time they realized what had happened, the girl had spent a thousand dollars and an unknown person had taken $2,000 from her account. This August, TikTok launched a one billion dollar TikTok Creator Fund to support and reward creators for the time and dedication they put into creating entertaining, inspiring, and doing uplifting content for the TikTok community. So far, tens and thousands of dollars have been sent to us creators. So this actually was a thing.

[B]

Oh, weird. Wow, look at us.

[A]

Wow,

[B]

look at us being kind of wrong.

[A]

So I love this show. I want to be wrong and I want to be loud. Loud and wrong. So through the app, creators will be able to transfer funds from the creator fund to their LinkedIn payment method. And at the end of the month, each creator will be able to withdraw their earned funds. Okay.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So I understand why you fell for this. Because TikTok actually did a real thing that was this.

[B]

I'm wrong. I mean, that makes sense. Okay, I take it back.

[A]

I don't take it back. I meant it. So, guys, I don't know what the lesson is here, because technically, TikTok was giving people money.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

I think here's what my lesson is. If I can give one, it's slow down and talk to somebody else before you do any of this stuff. Yeah. Because verify your sources to the best of your ability if you can.

[A]

I felt like that was a read, Ria, to me. Like, can you read something before you come on this damn show?

[B]

No, no, no, no, no. It was a read of TikTok only. It's only this scam whatsoever.

[A]

I caught some. I caught some straight bullets off that read. And I'm.

[B]

I never read. I have a podcast that people listen

[A]

to, like Michael Jordan, I take it.

[B]

And I literally. And I took that personally. I never read those things. And I feel you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I never read my notes because I'm like, I want to be on the. And then I'm like, what? I can't. What? And I have to take it again.

[A]

There's so many live. What's in this Episode and shout out to my engineer, Marina Priest, because I'm Girl, I'm so sorry for all the editing you're going to have to do. What I do want to say to wrap this up is.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

TikTok had a real thing thing where they're giving creators money. Okay, cool. Did those creators have to give their daddy banking info? No.

[B]

No, probably not.

[A]

Just question the means. Take a second, think about things. Maybe say it out loud. I've started saying that's what I'm saying because that's what I've been saying. Lacey, you hear some wild shit. Say it out loud, hear yourself and be like, was that wild?

[B]

Yeah. Get it out of your brain and get it into the world a little bit.

[A]

Right? Call a friend. You know, phone a friend.

[B]

Call a friend, ask somebody's opinion about it.

[A]

Take the millionaire rules, Phone a friend, do a 50 50, eliminate some possibilities and pick it up. There is no third one. See, that was Muskie.

[B]

I thought there was a third one. Look at me. Huh? I thought there was.

[A]

Wait, you mean I'm millionaire?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, there is. It's phone a friend.

[B]

50, 50, 50. Oh, and then the audience poll.

[A]

Yes, yes. Which. I've never seen that one.

[B]

Yeah. No, no, no, no. We're both like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You don't know what you're talking about either.

[A]

The audience. Right. Oh, goodness. We've reached the end of the episode.

[B]

And what a, what a journey it's been, Lacy.

[A]

It's been wild. Truly. One of the other episodes filled with me being like, Marina, help, help.

[B]

Take it again.

[A]

And ho, ho, ho. The name I could never pronounce. Pronounce.

[B]

Yep, yep. She was great. It was wonderful to meet her.

[A]

Wonderful.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Sorry to all the Helens out there. And the Helenas. And the Helenes. And the Helenes. Okay. We always ask on this podcast, where do you want to be found?

[B]

Oh, that's a great question. I don't even know if I have an answer to that. Well, I mean, I have, you know, Instagram and Twitter and all those things and I always changing my relationship to them. But yeah, I have a podcast, it's called Three Swings. It's on a little bit of a, like winter break right now, but I'm gonna do a couple episodes here and there. And, oh, I'm also on the TV show Good Trouble pretty regularly, which is fun. I play a non binary stand up comic on that show, so it's a big stretch of my ability, but it's really about that.

[A]

I love Zuri I love Drew. I love Michael. They're all wonderful people.

[B]

Zuri is, like, the only person out of that crew that you just mentioned that I've really gotten to talk to. It's. What's so funny about that show is, like, it's such a big ensemble that, like, there's not a ton of crossover. So it's literally like, I ran into Zuri at Crafty, and she was like, I'm done. And I was like, I just got here, and that was like, it.

[A]

Oh, she's wonderful. And Sherry. I love Sherry cola.

[B]

Yeah, Sherry's the greatest. Yeah. It's such a great show, full of JoJo.

[A]

I know you've probably met Josh because you guys have done some scenes together. Like, oh, how do I know so many people on Good Trouble that I'm like, I love these people so much. That show's wonderful. It's a wonderful show.

[B]

So check that out. It's really wonderful. And, yeah, like I said, putting out a little record in the next month or so on a special thing records called pull yourself up by your bootleg. It's just all digital, so you can get it on there. And, yeah, check it out. Not an intended record to put out, but we're doing it because who knows? Thanks. I was like, didn't know what to call it, and then I just thought of that, and I was like, sounds good.

[A]

Oh, it's so good. Oh, wonderful, guys. All those things. Follow the things. Look, Rhea, all the things is out here doing it. They are very funny and fantastic, as you can see from this episode. So, as always, snitch on your friends and family. Scamgoddesspodmail.com if you want to follow me and my shenanigans. Scam Goddess pod on all platforms. If you want to follow me personally, that makes me laugh. D I V A L A C I Diva Lacey. On all platforms. Congregation Stay scheming. Scam Goddess. This has been an Earwolf production in association with Team Coco. Scam Goddess is starring me. Duh. Scam Goddess, AKA Lacy Moseley. Scam Goddess is produced by Chelsea Jacobson and engineered by Marina Paiz with research by Sherlyn Vera. Stay scheming.