The Fraudulent Fashion Founder w/ Margaret Cho

Summary

Scam Goddess with Laci Mosley

Episode Title: The Fraudulent Fashion Founder w/ Margaret Cho
Guest: Margaret Cho
Date: March 24, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Laci Mosley is joined by comedy legend Margaret Cho to dig into the rise and fall of Christine Hunsicker—dubbed “the Bernie Madoff of Fashion.” The duo unpacks Hunsicker’s journey from promising tech entrepreneur to masterminding one of the largest startup frauds in recent years, targeting investors for hundreds of millions of dollars with fake financials, phantom profits, and brazen scams. The conversation balances hilarious banter, sharp insights on scam psychology, and nuanced perspectives on victimhood and audacity in scam culture.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Opening Banter & Personal Scam Stories

[01:00 - 10:22]

• Margaret’s Recent Brush With Scams:
  • Margaret details how she slid into a celebrity’s DMs, gave her number, and immediately received a suspicious text from “Roberta,” a phishing scam.
    • “I waited a day, then wrote ‘Is this the person I was talking to?’ And they’re like ‘No, it’s Roberta.’ And then it was a picture of a beautiful Asian woman.” - Margaret [04:17]
  • Both discuss the proliferation of social engineering scams via generic “wrong number” texts, phishing, and pandemic-era pet adoption scams.
  • Laci encourages listeners to resist fear tactics:
    • “If scammers had enough information to take anything from you, they wouldn’t reach out. Don’t get scared. Don’t engage.” - Laci [09:06]
• Shame, Fear, and the Power They Hold:
  • The scam economy runs on fear and, more deeply, shame. They discuss sextortion, “fear currency,” and why so many victims remain silent.
  • “Shame is the next step of fear… That’s how scammers continue to get away with things.” - Laci [10:00]
• Political Scams & Sunk Cost Fallacy:
  • Laci and Margaret riff on people’s unwillingness to admit being duped (with Trump merch as a comic focal point) and the psychology of “buying in.”

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The Scammer: Christine Hunsicker’s Fashion Fraud

[15:05 - 41:00]

Hunsicker’s Background and Rise

• Early Career: Christine’s path: Princeton grad → project manager at Right Media (sold to Yahoo for $850M) → Drop.io (bought by Facebook for $10M for a single hire).
  • “Why wasn’t I just making up tech stuff with boring logos in the early 2000s?” - Laci [18:40]
• Gwynnie Bee’s Launch:
  • Pioneered plus-size clothing rental subscription, serving women’s sizes 10–32, with customized sizing advice and easy returns.
    • “This is actually a good idea… It’s hard to find plus sizes that are cute.” - Margaret [20:20]
• Industry Recognition:
  • Featured on “40 Under 40” lists, Project Runway: Fashion Startup judge.
  • Both hosts mock the “founder pipeline to jail” reflected in such accolades.
    • “If your publicist tries to put you on a 40 Under 40… you’re going to jail. There’s a pipeline!” - Laci [22:36]
  • Noted for having a killer “poker face” (saying one thing backstage and doing another in deals) [23:52].

From Fashion Rental to Tech Unicorn—And the Pivot to Crime

• Rebranding & the Castle Era:
  • Gwynnie Bee became “Castle”—a SaaS “Clothing as a Service,” facilitating clothing rentals for mainstream retailers, thus white-labeling the tech for brands like Express, Ralph Lauren, and Banana Republic.
    • “She realized she built all the infrastructure, then said: Why do one company when I can get my hands in everybody’s business?” - Laci [25:00]
• Positive Aspects:
  • The sustainability and access angle: rental clothing reduces waste and provides options for underserved plus-size consumers.
• Venture Capital Floodgates:
  • Hunsicker claimed massive revenues—$793M projected for 2024, $1B for 2025—and claimed to be flush with cash, attracting $350M from VCs including Peter Thiel.
    • “Now that I know where the money is coming from, I’m not really… I don’t feel so bad about it!” - Laci [32:02], re: Thiel.

The Fraud Exposed

• The Scheme:
  • Provided investors with fraudulent financials, fake audits, sham bank statements (claiming $200M in cash when there was less than $200K), and forged corporate records.
    • “She was just like, ‘Add some zeros to that.’ That’s all she did—just added a couple of zeros!” - Margaret [34:06]
  • Falsified profits ($24M claimed in a quarter that actually yielded <$30K).
  • Forged signatures (aggravated ID theft) to raise money.
• Ponzi Moves:
  • Created P180 to funnel more capital to Castle, covering up shortfalls—a classic robbing-Peter-to-pay-Paul maneuver.
    • “P180 only existed to infuse Castle with more cash before investors could discover the fraud.” - Laci [35:58]
• Brazen Transfers:
  • Stole millions from new investors, including direct wire transfers to her personal accounts.
    • “You took all that money in two months and thought he wasn’t gonna notice?” - Laci [38:57]
• Comically Obvious Red Flags:
  • Board members (including ex-Stanford prez and Google director) quietly resigned when suspicious, failing to warn shareholders.
    • “There’s nothing worse to a rich person than realizing they’re not as smart as they thought they were.” - Laci [41:45]
  • After Hunsicker confessed, she was kept in place for a time and—audaciously—continued fundraising.
    • “The audacity… would you do in this situation? If you’re caught, you say ‘I did it.’ But she still asked for more money.” - Laci [42:37], Margaret [42:41]

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Ethics, Outcomes & Scam Psychology

[45:08 - 50:06]

• Aftermath:
  • Castle filed for bankruptcy, investors’ shares went to zero, Hunsicker looked physically and emotionally worn out in recent appearances.
  • “She looks like she was stressing every day. She bite her nails in her sleep, she wake up screaming.” - Laci [45:53]
• Charges:
  • Charged with fraud, aggravated identity theft, false statements. Out on $1 million bail, prohibited from contacting former employees or investors.
    • “They should have said she can’t have no access to WiFi, because that’s where this lady gets into trouble!” - Laci [47:07]
• Ethical Playbook:
  • Discussion of whether Hunsicker’s scam is admirable or unethical, especially given the investors she targeted.
    • “I kind of like her… The sheer audacity is kind of a wonder… how much we’ll empower liars because we want to believe.” – Margaret [47:38]
    • “Christine, girl, I’m on your side. I know you were indicted… but I hope you don’t have to go to white-collar jail—because you scammed Peter Thiel. That’s Robin Hood!” - Laci [49:53]
• Why Do People Fall For Scams?
  • The power of wanting to believe, investment in celebrity personalities, the psychology of sunk costs, and systemic shame.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Fear is the root, but shame is like the mask. It’s the fear you’re gonna be embarrassed.” – Laci Mosley [10:00]
• “They [scammers] want somebody that’s old, lonely, vulnerable… they can talk into doing some kind of bitcoin, crypto investment scam.” – Margaret Cho [07:36]
• “If Christine is talking, she’s lying—but we love that. Ooh, I gotta step up my lie game. No!” – Laci Mosley [25:00]
• “There’s a pipeline: If your publicist puts you on a 40 Under 40 list, you’re going to jail. Just look up the pipeline—don’t do it.” – Laci Mosley [22:36]
• “The sheer audacity is kind of a wonder… because we want to believe.” – Margaret Cho [47:38]
• “Christine, girl, I’m on your side… because you scammed Peter Thiel. That’s Robin Hood.” – Laci Mosley [49:53]

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Segment Timestamps (Skip Ad Sections)

• [01:00] – Show open, introduction of Margaret Cho
• [03:18] – Margaret’s personal scam stories
• [05:20] – The proliferation of digital/text scams and phishing
• [09:06] – Dealing with scammer intimidation
• [10:00] – The psychology of shame and fear in scams
• [15:05] – Transition to the historic scam: Christine Hunsicker intro
• [18:40] – Hunsicker’s tech background and Gwynnie Bee launch
• [20:20] – Discussion of inclusivity in fashion rental and market need
• [23:10] – TV fame, “poker face,” and Project Runway: Fashion Startup
• [24:47] – Pivot to B2B model: Castle and “clothing as a service”
• [32:01] – VC funding, Peter Thiel, and scale of the fraud
• [33:40] – Mechanics of the fraud: fake statements, audits, lavish claims
• [35:58] – The P180 side company and money shuffling
• [38:52] – Direct theft from co-founder/investors
• [41:45] – Suspicious board resignations, the psychology of shame
• [45:08] – Company collapse, bankruptcy, and Hunsicker’s fate
• [47:38] – The ethics and psychology behind the scam
• [49:53] – Reflections: admiration for the scammer, Robin Hood framing
• [50:20] – Where to find Margaret Cho and Laci Mosley’s projects

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Conclusion

Laci and Margaret blend comedy and critical thinking to illuminate Christine Hunsicker’s wild ride as a fraudulent fashion founder—revealing the deep social, systemic, and psychological currents that make massive scams possible in tech and business. Their witty, honest analysis leaves listeners entertained and, perhaps, a little more skeptical of the “next big thing.”

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Stay schemin’, congregation!

Transcript

[Lacy Mosley]

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[Lacy Mosley]

Scams, robbery and fraud. Scam, car robbery and fraud. What's poppin? Congregation it's your girl, Lacey Mosley, AKA Scam Goddess, back with another installment of the comedy podcast all about robbery, fraud and those who practice it. Sometimes we love them, sometimes we hate them. We along the way in congregation. We have a returning member of the congregation back here today, a standup comedian, actress and musician on the show. You've seen her on all American girl, 30 Rock, will tremp, fire island, all her amazing standup comedy specials, and so much more. She has an album out now called Lucky Gift. You can listen to that right after this episode. Congregation. Okay. She got some hymns for the church. I know. That's right. And you can catch her live on her choligarchy stage Stand up comedy tour happening now through August. Yes. Come on. Chola Gharkry. An icon, a comedy legend. She is. Congregation, please stand up out of your pews, your seats, your cars, and welcome Margaret Cho back to the show. Hi, Margaret. Hi.

[Margaret Cho]

I love you. Thank you.

[Lacy Mosley]

Yes. Loving more. So happy that you're back.

[Margaret Cho]

I'm so grateful to be back.

[Lacy Mosley]

I. This is random, but. And I know it's like an old thing that you did and you're always popping and moving and shaking, but Your arc on 30 Rock was one of my favorite random bits ever. And I watched 30 Rock a lot, like over because I just think it's a show with just so many like AK 47 rounds of jokes and Kim Jong un.

[Margaret Cho]

Oh, thank you. Thank you.

[Lacy Mosley]

It's like.

[Margaret Cho]

Yeah, it's like a comfort show for A lot of people, it's one of those things that you kind of want to watch before you're going to sleep, because it's like, you know, we need things that are comforting, and we need things that are. We know are funny from a simpler time. So. But thank you. Thank you. That was a lot of fun to do.

[Lacy Mosley]

Yes. It's iconic. I've always wanted to do something like that where, like, people can watch it for years and years to come. You know what I mean? Because, like, there's so many jokes. Every time I watch it again, I find something new and funny about you, about everyone. And so it's very. It's very.

[Margaret Cho]

Yeah, everybody's so funny. It's a really. It was a really fun thing to do.

[Lacy Mosley]

Yes.

[Margaret Cho]

Thank you.

[Lacy Mosley]

Thank you for. For bringing all this talent to the world. We appreciate it. Now, I have to ask you, Margaret, like, since we've spoken, you know, what has your relationship with scams been? Have there been any that have been quite titillating to you, or has anything happened to you? It could literally be anything.

[Margaret Cho]

So this is very rare. I actually jumped into the DMs of a very famous person who I wanted to date. And I've never done this, but we started talking, and I gave them my phone number, and then I got a text right away, but it didn't seem like it was from that person. It was, hi, I'm so glad that I have your number, and I just want to see what you're doing. And it didn't sound like the same person. And I was like, this is not to say. And I didn't want to go in the DMs. Did you text me? Like, I didn't want to say anything like that. Like, I just was like. I just let it sit on it. And then I waited for a day because I thought it was one of those texts, like, you know, hey, we're supposed to go golfing, or, you know,

[Lacy Mosley]

like, those weird things, like, okay, I'll

[Margaret Cho]

meet you at the doctor's office. You know, those things. And it sounded like one of those. But I also had just given this person in my DMs my number. So I did. It was so awkward. So I, like, waited a day, and then finally I wrote back, and I'm like, is this the person that I was talking to? And they're like, no, it's Roberta. And then it was a picture of, like, a beautiful Asian woman.

[Lacy Mosley]

Oh, Lord Jesus.

[Margaret Cho]

And it was like, one of those. And I was, like, so angry. So the movie Star didn't work out, but I was so mad that the timing was that I thought it was that person.

[Lacy Mosley]

So was this a chance where the scammer just kind of got, like, some kismet luck and it was a coincidence?

[Margaret Cho]

Yes, total coincidence. Total coincidence. But I actually get those things pretty often. Like those weird phishing texts, like, this is the doctor speaking and you have an appointment, or we're supposed to meet up and play golf, or, hey, mom, dad, is this your number still? Like, I get so many of those. And I think it's because I got scammed before. A few years ago during the pandemic when I tried to buy a cat online.

[Lacy Mosley]

I remember you telling me about that.

[Margaret Cho]

Yeah. When I tried to buy a cat online. So I think I'm on a register where people are like, she's an easy mark.

[Lacy Mosley]

She's easy to call our numbers. Like the data breach. I'm. I'm fully convinced I'm putting on my tin hat, but I'm fully convinced that those data breaches are literally just companies selling our information and then acting like, oh, my God, we don't know who did it. But just so you know, like, we. We gave them everything. Once you bought that, you know, Toyota Camry, like, what do you mean?

[Margaret Cho]

You're right. You're totally right. Because that's. That's exactly what they've been doing. But it's like, I've just been breached so many times because I refuse to change my number. I don't really know how to do anything. Like, I'm very, like, lax on stuff. So I definitely. And I've been to GAM before. And, you know that cat scam got me for a couple of thousand dollars.

[Lacy Mosley]

Yeah, I remember that one. Ouch. Everyone wanted a pet. Everyone wanted someone to cuddle. We were all indoors. It's like. It's one of the nastiest scams to do.

[Margaret Cho]

It's like people just want connection for a little animal. And showing me all these cute pictures of kitties, and so it was just very. It was rough. So I think. But, you know, when you get marked as, like, somebody who can be conned, they never wanna let you go.

[Lacy Mosley]

Oh, no. Once they think they can get you once, they're gonna spin the block again and again. And I feel like with this situation, it's unique because this is one of the scams that I haven't ever gotten to the end game of. Like, when you talked about the, like, oh, I'm your mom, or oh, the doctor. I've gotten the Golfing one a lot. Or it's like, hey, girl, like, you're late for lunch. And I'm like, I don't know who this is. And they're like, oh, it's me. So? And so then they send a picture, and it's always some conventionally attractive, you know, like, East European woman. And I try to keep it going. Like, I've tried a couple times. The next time I'm not gonna fail because I got a little too cocky. And I was like, talking back to the person. I was like, oh, girl. Like, I don't know you, but you seem cool. Like, we should link up. Like, we should golf or whatever. Whatever. I got pretty far in the conversation. Cause I'm trying to figure out, what do you want? Yeah, what do you want? What do you want? And so I was so excited because I got pretty far that I put a screenshot on my Instagram story, and I was like, y', all, I'm getting close. As soon as I put that screenshot up, they were like, oh, nevermind. This is the wrong person. And they stopped talking to me. And I'm like, fuck, they be watching my stories. This is somebody who somehow has gotten my information. I was like, damn. They.

[Margaret Cho]

They put it together. They, they, they. They were like, this is too easy. Because what they want is somebody that's old, who's lonely, who's vulnerable, that they can build a relationship with. I mean, that's basically, they're just looking for an entry into conversation where they can either talk you into doing some kind of bitcoin crypto investment scam or something to that effect.

[Lacy Mosley]

Like, they want to take you to WhatsApp. They want to take you to Signal. They definitely, like, never go to a second location. That works for phones as well. If we're on the iPhone, we have an iPhone bookie. Like, we're not going to WhatsApp.

[Margaret Cho]

We're not going to WhatsApp. We're Not Going to Signal. We're not going to telegram. No, it is exactly like, that's where they kill you in the second location. So we have to be very, very aware. But I think they're just looking for people who are lonely. They don't like it when people actually actively try to waste their time.

[Lacy Mosley]

You know, now they're offended. I'm like, you trying to waste my money?

[Margaret Cho]

Aware of it. Yeah, they're aware of it.

[Lacy Mosley]

And the thing, too, is that I feel like when you said the part about, like, you don't change your passwords or you don't change your number. Like, I absolutely understand that. And for those people out there who are, you know, doing what Margaret Chell's doing, who are part of the choligarchy, you know, tickets right now, y'. All. I think that it's not a bad thing to operate that way. Just know that if a scammer emails you or reaches out to you and is like, hey, I have your password, or, hey, I have your number. Hey, I know where you live, or that are. If they had enough information to take anything from you, they wouldn't reach out to you.

[Margaret Cho]

Right.

[Lacy Mosley]

So don't get scared. Don't engage. I've had people send me photos of myself, and we're like, I know this is you, and I'm going to expose you. I don't respond to that email because, bitch, if you were going, okay, do it. Waste your time.

[Margaret Cho]

Do it.

[Lacy Mosley]

Bitch, I don't give a fuck. I look good in that picture. And it's not nude either. I'm like, I don't give a damn. Like, I mean, who cares?

[Margaret Cho]

Like, it's like, that's. That's what's really sad is when people really get stuck with fear and they're, like, so afraid that their friends and family are going to find out about certain things or whatever. And it's just. That's a. That's a whole nother level of scam. That's like sextortion or extortion, where it's really. That's really evil. And that's unfortunately the reality for a lot of, like, teenagers now have to deal with that kind of stuff, which I think. I mean, I'm just so glad that I'm sort of, like, numb to it and I don't really care. But, yeah, people can get. You can get done with that kind of stuff.

[Lacy Mosley]

Yeah. Cause I mean, that's one of the biggest currencies in scams is fear and shame. Yeah, shame, especially because shame is like the next step of fear. You know what I mean? So it's like, fear is the root, but shame is like the mask. It's like the fear is that you're gonna be embarrassed.

[Margaret Cho]

So. Right.

[Lacy Mosley]

I absolutely understand people want to cover that up, but that's how a lot of scammers continue to get away with things, is because that's how they operate.

[Margaret Cho]

It's their ammunition. And it's really. I mean, that's really sad. But, yeah, the fact that that exists and is such a big industry, they make billions of dollars, and I mean, look at our president.

[Lacy Mosley]

Look at all These mocking people still hanging on. And it's simply because they're so ashamed to say that they got got and that they were foolish. And then there's some people who are just like, look, I want the world to burn. Like, I didn't get what I was promised in the white contract, so all the browns gotta die. You know, you got those people. But then you also have the people who are like, no, I believe in him. They don't know what the fuck he stands for or what the fuck he's doing, but they're just like, I don't wanna be proven a fool. I'm too ashamed.

[Margaret Cho]

They're too ashamed. It's just. They're embarrassed. It's a sunk cost fallacy. They bought into it so much. They bought so much Trump merch, and they can't go back.

[Lacy Mosley]

Yeah. And also, I don't know why they didn't realize when the president kept selling their merch once he was in office. Like, bro, this is a gr. I had one Obama T shirt and I wore it. Oh, I had two. Cause they was cute. It was two little different ones. Because the first for both elections, for one for different elections. Because the first election I couldn't vote, and then the second I could, but I, like, block walked and phone banked and did whatever I could.

[Margaret Cho]

That's great.

[Lacy Mosley]

The first one. But, like, I had those two T shirts. I don't know where those shirts are. Like, I would wear one to work out every now and then. But, like, why are y' all wearing merch? Like, y' all going to his concert every day? Like, you don't think that's strange? You don't think that's strange? He always. He got a gold shoe for y'. All. He got a card. He got earrings, Bitcoin. You don't think it's weird? He's slanging like. Like, imagine if you were in the White House and the president was like, bruhman from Martin, and he just opened his trench coat and he was like, hey, y'.

[Margaret Cho]

All.

[Lacy Mosley]

The president got all this stuff for y', all, which I want 2 for 5, 5 for 30. Like, what are we doing?

[Margaret Cho]

But, you know, he's such a scammer. It's like he scammed. Yeah, he scammed so much.

[Lacy Mosley]

But the shame of it all is, like, really what I wanted to, like, link in with. And I'm sorry that it didn't work out. What you shooting your shot. But, I mean, you got a response, though.

[Margaret Cho]

Okay, I did. I did. We had it. We had a Nice conversation. And it's just. Was the first time I had ever done that. But that's why I just got got by the scammer, because it was the timing.

[Lacy Mosley]

Yeah, they got lucky.

[Margaret Cho]

They got really lucky. And I could have just fallen in, but it's. It's good. It's good that it didn't work out. I mean, I just really expect scams. I listen to your podcast so much and watch your TV show so much that I just. I think everything's a scam, which is really. You're educating the people.

[Lacy Mosley]

We.

[Margaret Cho]

Now we're in the congregation, we think everything is a scam. So we're always looking out for ourselves.

[Lacy Mosley]

Yeah. And I think in some way, everything can be a scam. It doesn't mean everything is a scam, but everything can be a scam. Which I don't want people to be, like, pessimistic or, like, scared, but I think having that mentality. Exactly what you just said, Margaret. Like, I love that that's what you took from it. Because that mentality keeps you safe. Because the people who think it could never happen to me, that's who it happens to. Because you see all these red flags. You're like, it could never happen to me. It could never happen to me. And it's like, no, baby, it's happening to you right now. And because you refuse to believe it would, you're gonna wake up one day and it did.

[Margaret Cho]

Exactly. Exactly. Sc

[Lacy Mosley]

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[Lacy Mosley]

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[Margaret Cho]

She's also very stock photography. She is.

[Lacy Mosley]

It's very, very.

[Margaret Cho]

It's giving very stock photographer. Like stock photography.

[Lacy Mosley]

Yes, you're absolutely right. Like, this could definitely be, like, a LensCrafters commercial. Like, I could go into, like, a. An eye doctor, and they would have her photo up. I don't think those glasses have prescription, but.

[Margaret Cho]

No, but it is very, like, you know, I need some. I need a 2020 vision, and I. You know, it's very, like, an ad she's giving me.

[Lacy Mosley]

Barista at a local cafe. Employee of the month.

[Margaret Cho]

Yeah, yeah, definitely. Definitely.

[Lacy Mosley]

So the Hunsicker proxy. So Christine was born in Pennsylvania. Okay. Shout out to PA and went to Princeton. Okay. Where she played field hockey and learned German for her medieval studies minor. All of this is adding up with this photo. I'm seeing Princeton. I'm seeing field hockey. I'm seeing medieval studies. Because, ma', am, what was you gonna do with that? This, like, 2007, but okay, sure. So one of her early jobs was a project manager for Right Media, an online advertising startup in New York. She was promoted to president before Right Media was sold to Yahoo for $850 million in 2007. Now, Yahoo. See, y' all made a lot of bad financial decisions, because I never even knew about Right Media. I don't think they deserved 850 million of your dollars. No. Never seen this logo in my life.

[Margaret Cho]

No, no.

[Lacy Mosley]

Yeah, Yahoo made a lot of poor decisions. I mean, they're still hanging on. I know. I still have my email over there for spam.

[Margaret Cho]

That's good. That's good.

[Lacy Mosley]

And anytime I sign up for, like, a clothing land, you know, and they're like, we want to sign up for a discount. I'm like, oh, yeah, here's my Yahoo.

[Margaret Cho]

Oh, that's a good idea. That's smart.

[Lacy Mosley]

So after taking a year off to get Scuba certified, this lady just be doing anything.

[Margaret Cho]

She's busy. Yeah.

[Lacy Mosley]

She took a job at another tech startup called Drop, an online file sharing service that was purchased by Facebook for $10 million in 2010. Why wasn't I just making up tech stuff with boring logos in the early 2000s?

[Margaret Cho]

Because that's what everybody was doing. They were just buying.

[Lacy Mosley]

The girls were buying it up.

[Margaret Cho]

Yeah, they were spending money on that.

[Lacy Mosley]

Like, Mark Zuckerbooty bought this. Like, I've never seen this on Facebook. Never dripped or drop. Oh, this was genius, man. We should have just been buying up domains in 2000. What were we doing? I should have got what Danica Pancher told us. She said, go on, godaddy, get these. Get these domains. And I played. So she got Scuba certified, right? She got Drop IO, sells that to Mark Zuckerbergs and Zuckerberg had really only bought it because he wanted to hire one of their employees, Sam Lesson. The rest of the company shut down and the employees were laid off. So this was a vanity purchase. So Sam was like, if you want to get me, you got to get my company. Love how this works for people. In 2011, Christine finally launched her own startup. And this was called Gwynne B, a subscription service renting everyday clothes to women sizes 10 to 32. For a monthly fee, you could get a few items of clothing sent to you with a prepaid return package. So when you sent those items back, your next batch would ship. And Gwynnie B. Would take care of the washing, dry cleaning of all the stuff that you returned. They also had a size advisor tool which would recommend a size to pick, like, from each brand. And Christina hit the jackpot again. Honestly, Christina got hella ideas.

[Margaret Cho]

This is actually a good idea, though. I mean, it's hard, you know, especially like mid size or plus size. It's hard to find those basics that you like. It's also hard to go out, you know, shopping and stuff like that because

[Lacy Mosley]

in the store they only carry up to a certain size. A lot of people don't have the, you know, they don't go blind. The plus size.

[Margaret Cho]

Yeah.

[Lacy Mosley]

Or plus size to them is like a 14, and that's where they stop. And it's like. Yeah. So if you can't buy it in the store, it's hard to find online. Sourcing it all together at one place. And at least from what I'm looking at at the website right here, the outfits and stuff, especially for the time. This is like early 2000s. This is what the girls were wearing. You know what I mean? The jean jackets, the. Even those, like, tops with the kind of like, like pre. Like what would you call that little bean that you knit at the top with the flower? Emborn.

[Margaret Cho]

Yeah. Or you know, they've got a cold shoulder. Yeah, they're gonna give you a cold shoulder. Like, they're always gonna have a cold shoulder. I don't know what that is, but yeah, like the. The whole thing about it is it's hard to find plus sizes that are cute that are. If you want to change up your look that often, it's nice. I mean, I think that it's. It's nice for, you know, two for people who are the size to feel like, oh, I'm being accommodated, I'm being sold to. This is good. This is a good idea.

[Lacy Mosley]

Especially because of our demos in America. A lot of people are plus size and then their clothing is treated like an afterthought. And I have some plus sized friends who somewhere in the industry who are always talking about, they were like, I don't understand why they think that plus size people want to wear cheetah print all the time. I don't understand why they think we need ruffles. They love to put a ruffle on it. A cheetah print. Like you said, an exposed shoulder. They're like, we'll let you show a little top of the shoulder. Shoulder, girl. That's all you get. That's all you get now. Yeah, like so. So this is a genius idea to me. Damn, girl. Why you have to go into crime? You doing something good for the community. So Project Runway fashion startup. So this is when Christine. Christine, she becomes a. Yeah, she becomes a rising star in the fashion world. She was on Crain's New York business 40 under 40 list. And what I tell you about them list, if. If somebody tried to put you on the list or if your publicist tried to put you on a 40 under 40, 30 and a 30, you're going to jail. You're jail. Just look up the pipeline. Don't do it.

[Margaret Cho]

That's right.

[Lacy Mosley]

So she. She got on the 40 under 40 list and was one of Ink's most impressive women entrepreneurs and was recognized by the National Retail Federation as a pioneer shaping the future of retail. I agree with all of this. In 2016, she appeared as a judge on Project Runway Fashion Startup. Okay. She was over there with Heidi and them. Oh, wow. Yes. And wait, is that Nash? Zoom in on that photo. Oh, no, that's another white man. But okay, so this is the. The more Fashion Runway startup business. This is like the. The shark tank of fashion.

[Margaret Cho]

Oh, okay. Yeah.

[Lacy Mosley]

Huh. Because none of these people look like models. No shade. It's just like, you know how high looks. Yeah. So, yeah, so she's on there like the shark tank for clothes. Interestingly, the other investors and judges on the show decided Christine had the best poker face because she was good at saying one thing backstage and doing another on camera. So Christine was on top of the world. Gwenny B. Worked well. Her users enjoyed it, and so, of course, it was time to make a change. I wonder what they mean by poker face. Let's see.

[Margaret Cho]

Gary has an amazing poker face, but Rebecca, she doesn't let you in on what she's thinking about.

[Lacy Mosley]

I'd have to say Christina, the best poker face.

[Margaret Cho]

The best poker face is Christine. You never know what she's thinking. Sometimes she's quiet and you think she's completely disinterested. And then she surprises us all by

[Lacy Mosley]

baking the biggest investment. Who had the best poker face? Obviously me. She surprised us. We would talk a little bit in our boardroom. We would speak off camera, and then I would come on and do something completely different than what I had just committed to. She would come out and surprise us. We realized that we've got to be

[Margaret Cho]

a little more careful and less candid in the boardroom.

[Lacy Mosley]

So this is giving me like a little bit of shade of like, we all made a decision of what we were going to put in investment wise. And like, she was like, yeah, tell me how your idea, Tell me your idea. What's your idea? Yeah, that's crazy. I'm thinking the same as you. I'm thinking the same as you. I. I like what you thinking. And then she get out there and be like, I want it all.

[Margaret Cho]

Totally, totally.

[Lacy Mosley]

It's getting unscrupulous.

[Margaret Cho]

It's very unscrupulous. It's very unscrupulous.

[Lacy Mosley]

It was giving, like, how can we say that she's untrustworthy? Like what?

[Margaret Cho]

She's cutthroat. She wants the money. That's all she cares about.

[Lacy Mosley]

Right. They was all basically saying, like, yeah, Christine be lying to us. Christine lie to us every day.

[Margaret Cho]

Totally.

[Lacy Mosley]

If Christine talking, she lying. But we love that. We love that. I was like, ooh, I gotta start stepping up my lie game. No. Okay. So I don't know why, if things are working, don't keep expanding on these things and working on these things. But clearly she's a serial entrepreneur, which is my loving title for scammers who have to keep moving into other fields. So she starts something called Castle with two A's. She rebranded Gwynneby as Castle. Instead of being a subscription clothing rental company, it would be the tech that helped existing brands run their own subscription services. Christine called it clothing as a service or cast. Okay. And that's why she renamed the business Castle. Castle was supposed to manage all aspects of the service for retail partners, from consumer facing websites to the cleaning and shipping of garments to custom service retailers like Express or Ralph Lauren would pay Castle a per user per month fee to run their rental services. Each retailer would set their own monthly subscription rate to like, from 49.95 to $160 a month for three or four items. Christine and Castle was like, it was like a high growth private company doing bofo business for like Express, Ralph Lauren and Taylor Banana Republic Vince. And they were providing retail rental technology behind the scenes, but customers would never know Castle was involved. So basically, she realized that with Gwenny B. She had made all the infrastructure to do this, like, rental clothing type situation. Then she was like, well, why am I doing this? For one company, when I get my hands up in air, my business and the consumer doesn't even need to know, so they keep the. To keep their brand equity and I get to get my coins. And this kind of reminds me of, like, I don't know if this is a secret, but, you know, when you get styled for an event or something, sometimes you decide you want to purchase the look because you like the look and you want to have it in your closet. But other times, there are certain stores that your stylist can go to pull things for you to wear, and then they're dry cleaned and they're returned, and you pay a certain percentage of the whole price, but you don't pay for the whole thing because you're not going to keep it. Because sometimes when you photograph something that's dead or I've, you know, worn some outfits, outfits that are so extravagant that I'm like, where am I going wear this again? Yeah. You know.

[Margaret Cho]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Lacy Mosley]

So it's like that, but for the average everyday consumer, which I think is pretty cool. And I think that saves on waste.

[Margaret Cho]

Yeah. And it's. It's better in the long run. So then fast fashion just becomes actually just slow fashion. Everybody's fashion. So, you know, it doesn't have that, like, disposability factor. There's like a bunch of different people wearing it per season. I think it's a good idea, I mean, for like, just the climate change of it all.

[Lacy Mosley]

Yeah. So it doesn't end up in a landfill or on a barge or, you know, some seals, Positive aspects to it. Yeah. Tied up in some fashion nova in the ocean. Like, you know, the seals are tired of wearing teemu. No. Okay.

[Margaret Cho]

No.

[Lacy Mosley]

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[Lacy Mosley]

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[Lacy Mosley]

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[Lacy Mosley]

They accept Discover at Renaissance fairs. Yeah, they do here.

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[Lacy Mosley]

With the times.

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[Lacy Mosley]

So her revenue projections for 24 or 2024 and 2025 were 793 million, $1 billion. And she said that clothing, as a service, like, as a company, had hundreds of millions in cash on mid, like, 2,024. So these kinds of numbers got her a $350 million venture capital, like, investment from, you know, VCs, including Peter Thiel. You know, notorious great guy Peter Thiel. Who says. Who says that? I'm not sure we need humanity no more.

[Margaret Cho]

Look at her. Oh, I'm not sure we don't need Ms. Peter Thiel.

[Lacy Mosley]

She needs to go, like, if we humanity.

[Margaret Cho]

She's so sick of her.

[Lacy Mosley]

I'm so sick of her. You should start. Why don't you lead the way, Peter? In the end of humanity, you start, we gonna come after you. We're gonna be in line. We're gonna be in line, but just you jump first, and then we go. Yeah. Elon's frenemy and backer of the Steroid Olympics, which we've covered on this show. But, you know, getting this money. Christine was lying. So now that I know where the money is coming from, I'm not really.

[Margaret Cho]

I don't feel so bad. No.

[Lacy Mosley]

I don't feel so bad about it.

[Margaret Cho]

It's fine.

[Lacy Mosley]

So according to a number of lawsuits that led to bankruptcy and probably the demise of the whole company. Castle. Christ. Or Christine lied to investors. From February 2019 up until now, the company was actually not working, and she just pretended that it was. I mean, a lot of companies do that.

[Margaret Cho]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Lacy Mosley]

Like, do we think Arby's is really working? Who's. Who's going to Arby's? Is it a drug friend?

[Margaret Cho]

People who love roast beef. But I think, you know, I think roast beef is not really working either. I mean, who's really going to go dying on a roast beef hill?

[Lacy Mosley]

I mean, I don't know who eats roast beef every day with their homegirls?

[Margaret Cho]

Yeah.

[Lacy Mosley]

I don't know. Yeah, you're right. The roast beef industry and Arby's wig. What kind of collusion y' all got going on? What, are y' all transferring in that beef?

[Margaret Cho]

Yes.

[Lacy Mosley]

Cause, you know, the FDA ain't opening that beef up, trying to get a taste. What kind of drugs are y' all smuggling into the. Into the country? We know. So she gave these investors falsely inflated income statements, fake audited financial statements, fictitious bank account records, and sham corporate records, which I think is pretty interesting that you could do that. That up until today. Because that's like a old school Bernie Madoff where they were literally cooking the books.

[Margaret Cho]

Yeah. That's incredible.

[Lacy Mosley]

So she was doing sham bank statements in the 2000s?

[Margaret Cho]

Yeah. That's pretty bold.

[Lacy Mosley]

Props. She told one investor in August of 2023 that Castle reported an operating profit of nearly $24 million in the second quarter of 2023, when its operating profit in that quarter was actually less than $30,000. Oh, wow. For the year overall.

[Margaret Cho]

Oh, my God.

[Lacy Mosley]

The company was operating at a loss of $80 million. At a loss. In the written like girl, the lies. One fake bank account screenshot which Christine showed an investor showed that castle had nearly $200 million in available cash. At the time. They actually had less than $200,000.

[Margaret Cho]

Uh huh.

[Lacy Mosley]

So she was just like, add some zeros to that.

[Margaret Cho]

Just add. That's all she did. That's that really creative. She just added a couple of zeros. That's so great.

[Lacy Mosley]

It really is. Because now I think about falsifying a bank statement if everything else looks legit and all you did was just go in there and add one little zero.

[Margaret Cho]

That's all.

[Lacy Mosley]

Move a move a comma, Classy. Classy. So Fake Financial supported Christine's story that Castle was about to go public and get bought by a bigger company in 2023. She was confronted over providing an investor with a fake audit. And she claimed it was a one time error. You know how that one time you give somebody a f. Yeah. Everybody makes mistakes.

[Margaret Cho]

You know, it happens.

[Lacy Mosley]

Yeah. One time you give them a fake audit and you like, oops, whoop de doo. And then it's gonna be real the next time.

[Margaret Cho]

Yeah, yeah.

[Lacy Mosley]

So in 2024, she forged a board director's signature to raise more than $20 million for the company. So now she's forging signatures. Mm. I mean, maybe all these side quests that she took are really paying off. I don't know where the medieval studies is happening, but maybe it's like in

[Margaret Cho]

subterfuge or just like adding. Maybe they did that in the middle, like ages is just add zeros. Did they have zeros then or they just got made? No, they had zeros. They had zeros.

[Lacy Mosley]

They had zeros then. Yeah. So that's how she learned how to like fuck with the coffers and, you know, make it seem like the king had coin when the king was broke. So she made more than $275 million from misinformed investments before forming another company called P180 in 2024. But P180 only existed to inf castle with more cash before its investors could discover the fraud. So she was like, y' all get involved in P180. This is my new thing. And then she was basically robbing Peter to pay Paul. Okay, I don't even know what P180 does, but it does sound like they're gonna turn it around.

[Margaret Cho]

It sounds like that. That. That really hard workout. Remember that?

[Lacy Mosley]

Hard workout, P90X.

[Margaret Cho]

Yeah, I thought that's what it was, y'.

[Lacy Mosley]

All.

[Margaret Cho]

Really hard.

[Lacy Mosley]

It was hard as fuck. Is that Sean? Oh, Shawn.

[Margaret Cho]

It was also insanity. It was similar to insanity.

[Lacy Mosley]

Yeah, it was similar to insanity. One of them was Shaun King, or what was his name? Shaun. Something like that. Shaun T. My favorite thing about Shaun T was Shaun T was very gay. But Shaun T Wanted to keep his market, and so I think he thought he had to pretend to be straight. But it was so funny because we knew he was gay, but he was.

[Margaret Cho]

Yeah, you could just see it. You could feel it.

[Lacy Mosley]

But he would always be trying to play up his heterosexuality while he was working out. Oh, yeah, ladies. Ooh, yeah. Ooh, she's shanty. And I was like, sean, look at the family. They're so cute.

[Margaret Cho]

I love them.

[Lacy Mosley]

They're beautiful. Everybody knows you're gay. The men, the women, we don't care. The workout is killing us.

[Margaret Cho]

It's fine.

[Lacy Mosley]

It's great.

[Margaret Cho]

It was a hard workout.

[Lacy Mosley]

It was hard as hell. And honestly, like, I feel like even straight men know that if you really want that great gym body, your instructor's gonna be a gamer.

[Margaret Cho]

Yes. You have to. You have to go to the. The homosexual world.

[Lacy Mosley]

Yes. Because they take the body seriously.

[Margaret Cho]

That's right. That's right.

[Lacy Mosley]

Yes. So Brendan Hoffman was a seasoned fashion executive who previously led companies like Vince and Wolverine Worldwide. He launched the company P1 80, inspired by a meeting with Christine. She told him Castle was a thriving business with a subscriber base in the hundreds of thousands, proprietary technology, and reported 1.4 billion DOL in, like, a valuation. So after Brendan formed the company and gave Castle a 25% stake in it, he noticed unauthorized fund transfers from his bank accounts, including $1.4 million and $500,000 withdrawn in June of 2024. Then $950,000 and $450,000 withdrawn in July of 2024. And two transfers totaling $1.3 million wired to Christine's personal account in January of 2025. She was using the money to cover losses and make it. It look like her company still had money to spend. So the Brendan guy who came in, and he was the one who developed this P180 inspired by Christine. He was like, okay, I'll give you all this coin. We're going to open his bank account. Christine was like, thank you so much. This is so wonderful. Brandon, now don't. You don't need to look at the bank accounts no more because. Ma', am, what do you mean? You took one point. You took 1.4 million and $500,000 in June. Then in July of that same year, you took $950,000. At $450,000, you took. You took all that money in two months and thought he wasn't gonna notice?

[Margaret Cho]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Lacy Mosley]

And then by January 2025, you had took another 1.3 million, and you just thought he wasn't gonna notice?

[Margaret Cho]

No, no.

[Lacy Mosley]

Like, what? Christine was bold as hell.

[Margaret Cho]

Well, it's less than she's been taking from everybody else. Like, it's actually less. So it does seem like a little bit to her.

[Lacy Mosley]

That's true. Because, yeah, you're right. In the grand scheme, like, 350 million. If I'm working with 350 million, then I'm like, 1.4. That's like a little. It's like 1400.

[Margaret Cho]

It's like the change that falls in between the couch cushions. It's really not that much.

[Lacy Mosley]

Yeah, you're not going to notice 1.4. No, you're not going to notice 2.7. You're not going to, like. So this is a long process of her getting kicked out. We're getting to her getting caught and her getting out also. Can we just stop for a second and look at me, Brendan. He was the one who created P180, Brendan. He kind of gives me, like, rube vibes. Like, remember, Christine's got the poker face, right?

[Margaret Cho]

Yes. Yes.

[Lacy Mosley]

This guy, to me, has the opposite of a poker face.

[Margaret Cho]

Yeah, he's definitely, you know, he's got a lot of people going, hey, you know what? You're late for golf. I thought you were going to meet me on the golf course. He's got a lot of people like that in his DMs and on his phone.

[Lacy Mosley]

He's got. Yeah, he's got, like, please, like me face. He's got like, I got money from daddy, and I'm trying to be a big businessman, and so I'm in tech, but, like, clearly not his gifts. Like, I. There's no way that I believe this man made all his Money on his own. Like, he's not a bootstrapper. Like, he's trying to keep up with. He's, like, reminding me from, like, was it who was the brother in secession, the older one who kept trying to run for president and shit?

[Margaret Cho]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Lacy Mosley]

He's got that energy of just like, he's spending daddy's money and trying to be a big, successful man. Oh, what a rube.

[Margaret Cho]

Oh.

[Lacy Mosley]

So the long process of getting kicked out. So Christine, in late 2024, a money manager who worked at Castle, that worked for, like, an investor at Castle, tried to double check the company's past audits and wasn't able to. Not a 404 clicked on the page and was, like, not found. Uh oh. He started asking more questions and brought it to the company's board of directors. The board included John Hennessy, the former president of Stanford University and a current director of Google parent company Alphabet. Soon after, Hennessy quietly quit the board and was replaced. So Hennessy said, mm, hmm. Something right? And there's nothing worse to a rich person than realizing that they're not as smart as they thought they were and that you can get rich without necessarily being the most highly intelligent person. So instead of Hennessy being like, this bitch stole all our money. She stole all the money. He was like, I'm gonna quietly resign. Here are my shares back to St. Bart's I go, like, why didn't you just blow the whistle? Because he didn't want to be ashamed.

[Margaret Cho]

Yeah.

[Lacy Mosley]

So sometime during this transition, an investigation was launched, and Christine apparently admitted to the board what she had done. She said, okay, look, I've been running a little. A little. Little Ponzi. Just like a tiny chocolate Charles, you know?

[Margaret Cho]

No.

[Lacy Mosley]

And so investors were never told about the board transition, the investigation, or the fraud. So she told the board, hey, this is what I did. I've been stealing, I've been robbing, and I've been, you know, criming. And they're like, okay, let's keep this in their hush. Let's not tell any of the investors. Honestly, I'm on board. We don't need to warn Peter Thiel.

[Margaret Cho]

No, no.

[Lacy Mosley]

Like, we need Peter off the planet. Okay.

[Margaret Cho]

Yeah, yeah.

[Lacy Mosley]

So many of these board members did hear from Christine, who somehow still had her job and was still asking them for more money. So she was like, oh, well, since I still work here, can I have some more money? The audacity.

[Margaret Cho]

It's really amazing. It's amazing.

[Lacy Mosley]

Like, what would you do in this situation if you're Caught you say I, I did it.

[Margaret Cho]

I would say at this point, I would say I did. Look, I, I made a mistake and I did it and what can I do to make it right Instead of oh, can I have some more money? Like that is where you show your wife. Like that's really, that's mighty white of, of her.

[Lacy Mosley]

Mighty white. It's pretty palm colored. But also maybe she was trying to get that money to make it right. Maybe she was still.

[Margaret Cho]

Maybe, Maybe that's true. That's true. But how do you make it right at that point like that?

[Lacy Mosley]

I mean it's like really, where you gonna come up with 350 million? You need more than that actually. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean it's giving me like a gambling mentality. You know, like when people lose a lot of money and they keep going to the ATM cause they're like, I just need a hit and I'll be back up.

[Margaret Cho]

I got no. Maybe that's what got her into this. The adrenaline of like, okay, keeping it all like going, like keeping the bruise going.

[Lacy Mosley]

Cause she had a successful company with Gwenny Gwynne Poole Gwynnethang. When was Gwynny.

[Margaret Cho]

But she did know she had been successful and she sort of identifies as successful too. Like that's her identity, you know. And so that's why she thinks that this is possible.

[Lacy Mosley]

And I bet you being in those types of rooms and like everyone's looking for their own type of currency when it comes to power. So let's say you don't have a lot of money. You can be very religious and piety can give you power. You know, let's say you're, you also don't have a lot of money, but you're very beautiful. Being beautiful can give you tons of currency in this world. Let's say you're kind of fugly, but you own a Fortune 500. You know, there's rooms that you're going to walk into and they're going to be, oh chip. Oh, they're going to ship all money off, you know, like so I feel like in the fashion industry, like no shade. But she wasn't gonna be giving all that. That's why she was on the fashion for the behind the scenes people. But in, but in this world, like they don't care what you look like. It's like how much money do you have? What's you, what's your, you know, debt ratio? I don't know, what's your roi? Like these are their turn on words. And so yeah, and you know, in other. In other lanes, it's like, what are your follower counts? And that's your power in those spaces. So I could see her being addicted to.

[Margaret Cho]

Of course. Of course.

[Lacy Mosley]

But, you know, so she asking for a woman still. Big. Christine was forced to resign from Cassell's board in December 2024 and formally resigned as chief executive in March of 2025. That's when the company finally told shareholders what was going on. I find it quite interesting that they let her resign before they told the shareholders, because it seems like Christine would be an excellent scapegoat for all of this.

[Margaret Cho]

Right? Well, she's to blame for all of this. I mean, she. You know, that's who should. They should bring in. I mean, that's who they should blame because it is her fault.

[Lacy Mosley]

Yeah, but what does she have on. On them? Because I've never seen men not throw a woman under the bus. Yeah, they'll do it for less. They'll do it for fun.

[Margaret Cho]

Yeah, for sure. For sure.

[Lacy Mosley]

They'll be like, oh, I just. I tripped the lady and threw her under the bus this morning. I didn't know her. I don't know. She was a lady. Like, I can't believe they just let her go like this. So Castle filed for Chapter 7 bankruptcy in June of 2025, leaving investors with worthless shares. Oh, look at her. No looking. Shame that whatever she was doing, all this crime, really sucked the life out of her. Because Christine don't look like she used to.

[Commercial Announcer]

To.

[Margaret Cho]

No. She doesn't look like a stock photo anymore.

[Lacy Mosley]

No.

[Margaret Cho]

It's all just. Yeah, she's sad. It's bummed. She's bummed.

[Lacy Mosley]

She looks stressed. She looks like she was stressing every day. She. Look, she bite her nails in her sleep. She wake up screaming. Yes, that's how she wake up every morning. I need some coffee. Like, it's just the norm. So she's been charged with fraud, aggravated identity theft, and false statements. If you don't know what aggravated identity theft is, it's one of my favorite terms. It's like, basically when, like, remember, she forged some board member signatures and stuff.

[Margaret Cho]

Right?

[Lacy Mosley]

That's aggravated identity theft.

[Margaret Cho]

Okay.

[Lacy Mosley]

And so she was released on a million dollars bail after pleading not guilty to scamming investors out of $300 million in what would be one of the biggest startup frauds of all time. As a condition of her bail, she is not allowed to contact any former employees or investors. Now, they did say any former. They didn't say she couldn't start up A new tech company.

[Margaret Cho]

Did she?

[Lacy Mosley]

I don't know. That is. That is as much as we have so far. This is an ongoing case, so she has not been sentenced or charged. You know, okay. She's been formally charged. She hasn't been sentenced or anything yet. So she's currently out on bail, and I don't know what she's doing. They should have said she don't have. She can't have no access to wi fi because clearly the Internet is where this lady gets in trouble.

[Margaret Cho]

Right. Right. I don't know. I wonder what happens. Like, you know, is she going to go to prison?

[Lacy Mosley]

Most of. I mean, honestly, I don't want her to go to prison just because of the people that she stole from. Peter Thiel can suck it.

[Margaret Cho]

Yeah. Who cares?

[Lacy Mosley]

I feel bad for the employees, the furloughed employees. I feel bad for them. I hope they got a good little cute little check while they could. But everybody else. Yeah, they can get in the bin.

[Margaret Cho]

Yeah.

[Lacy Mosley]

Where would you rate this scam as far as, like, ethical, unethical? Do you like Christine?

[Margaret Cho]

I kind of like her. I kind of like her. I like her in the same way that I like Elizabeth Holmes. Like, I'm like, you know what, the amount of lying, you know, the people you're getting money from, all those things. Like, I agree with the people that she's ripping off. Like, yeah, they deserve it. And also, you know, it is. The sheer audacity is kind of a wonder. Like, it's just. It's pretty amazing how. How much we'll empower the liars. Because we want to believe.

[Lacy Mosley]

Yeah.

[Margaret Cho]

You know, we just are. We have an addiction to believing, you

[Lacy Mosley]

know, we really do. I mean, the one thing I will say about Elizabeth Holmes is this gets buried a lot, is that she did try to run some of those, like, tiny thing blood tests on real cancer patients. And that, to me, was so fucked up. And they did not get any justice or any money. So that's the only reason that I'm like her. But everything else she did with the investors and the black turtlenecks, I was like, right on, sis. Like, totally. That's fine.

[Margaret Cho]

That's totally fine. Yeah, she totally ate that. It's really funny. Like, it's like, yeah, that's totally fine.

[Lacy Mosley]

But seeing that people want to believe, I think that is so beautiful because I see that every single day. It's like we form these parasocial relationships, and I joke about that all the time with this podcast because I want y' all to form a parasocial relationship with me now, don't show up at my house, but I'm done, you know, but we could be besties on the phone. Like, we can chat while you on your drive. What y' all talking about right now? Uh huh, girl. Yeah, traffic is crazy right now, ain't it? Oh, I know, I know. What's your baby doing? Put the podcast on in one room for the baby to listen to and then put it on in the other room so I can get some more streams. Aw, that's crazy.

[Margaret Cho]

That's so cute.

[Lacy Mosley]

That kind of thing I understand, but I'm very honest about it. But I feel like with celebrities and celebrity culture, we get to this place where we have invested kind of a little bit of our personalities into these people. And so when they start doing something that is inappropriate or wrong, it's very hard for us to believe it. I mean, in business especially, like, can say the same thing. It's like, I want to believe that this is going to be the next big company. I want to believe that I'm invested in the next bitcoin. I want to believe that I'm on the ground floor of something because I want to, you know, have that success. So I'm going to say, Christine, girl, I'm on your side. And I know you were indicted. And we're waiting, we're waiting for this trial because I need to see, but I'm praying for you. I hope that you don't have to go to white collar jail because I don't want to see you in there to playing tennis with Lizzy. I want to see you free just because you scammed Peter Thiel like, I don't know. That's Robin Hood. Yeah.

[Margaret Cho]

And that, yeah, I think that is Robin Hood. Yeah. Good for her.

[Lacy Mosley]

Good for her.

[Commercial Voice]

Yes.

[Lacy Mosley]

All right, well, we always ask at the end of this podcast, Margaret, where would you like people to find you? Social media, obviously, your tour, like, let the girls know.

[Margaret Cho]

People can find me. I'm on tour and I. You can get tickets on margaretcho.com I'm on Instagram @margaretcho and I'm on TikTok @theMargaretcho.

[Lacy Mosley]

Yes. And y', all, I'm also going on tour with Live Nation, so you can get those tickets on livenations. Com as Scam Goddess starting in the spring. And then, yeah, watch my TV show, Scam God is still on Hulu right now, y'. All. And then the book, Scam Goddess, you can get it on audio, you can get it paper or hard cover. And then that's where I be plugging everything. Going Dutch. Yes, on Fox. You can watch that Thursday, it's 9:30 Pacific. I should know these things. But yeah, going Dutch on Fox where I also kind of play as scammers. I'll get into the of things and congregation. I want y' all to get out there and I want you to stay. Don't stop Christining. Okay, hold on to that Scheming. Yeah.

[Margaret Cho]

Beautiful.

[Lacy Mosley]

F Goditz. Bang. Fraud and Peter Teal. Scamp Goddess stars and is hosted by me, Lacy Mosley, AK AKA Scam Goddess. Our producer is Jessica Cisneros and our audio engineer is Rich Garcia. Research for the show is conducted by Kate Doyle. Stay Scheming.

[Commercial Announcer]

And Doug, there's nowhere I wouldn't go to help someone customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual.

[Lacy Mosley]

Even if it means sitting front row

[Margaret Cho]

at a comedy show.

[Lacy Mosley]

Hey everyone. Check out this guy and his bird.

[Margaret Cho]

What is this your first date?

[Lacy Mosley]

Oh, no. We help people customize and save on

[Commercial Announcer]

car insurance with Liberty Mutual together.

[Margaret Cho]

We're married. Me to a human, him to a bird.

[Lacy Mosley]

Yeah, the bird looks out of your league. Anyways, only pay for what you [e-mail] Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty.

[Commercial Voice]

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