The Impostrous Influencer with Jameela Jamil

Summary

Scam Goddess – "The Impostrous Influencer" with Jameela Jamil

Podcast: Scam Goddess
Host: Laci Mosley
Guest: Jameela Jamil
Original Release Date: March 31, 2020

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Episode Overview

This episode of Scam Goddess unpacks the world of influencer scams, digital grifting, and creative hustles with special guest Jameela Jamil. Host Laci Mosley and Jameela share personal scam stories, dissect notorious influencer cons—focusing on the infamous Caroline Calloway—and highlight the blurred lines between hustle and outright deceit in the social media age. The episode blends hilarious banter, sharp social commentary, and relatable tales of ambition and gullibility.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Personal Scam Origin Stories (01:20 – 05:05)

• Laci recalls unwittingly running a London theater at 19 after her boss abandoned the post. She jokes, “Honestly, probably scams, now that I think about it.” (01:27)
• Jameela confesses her own first scam: lying about her education and age to become an English teacher at 19:

  “I left school at 16… I used that accent and lied about which university I'd been to, lied about my age, and became an English teacher.” (02:32)

  • Her justification: “They should have done a background check on me. That's their fault.” (03:39)

2. Listener Letter: The Nude Blackmail Scam (05:06 – 09:59)

• A listener, “Light Skinned Keisha,” describes a coworker falling for a Tinder nude scam: after exchanging explicit photos, he’s threatened with police action by someone pretending to be the woman’s father, demanding hush money.
  • Laci: “Guys, this is the scam where you send nudes… then the father responds… and extorts money so they don't go to the police.” (09:22)
• Jameela relates a similar story involving video blackmail and emphasizes the danger of digital oversharing.

  “Dating scams are so scary… nudity is so scary. I don't have pictures of my tits on my Internet…” (11:27)

3. Dating App Catfishing and Emotional Manipulation (12:31 – 15:45)

• Jameela details a friend's catfishing hustle: using a model friend’s photos to attract women, then showing up himself at dates after the women believed they’d been stood up.
  • Laci calls out the scam’s emotional manipulativeness: “The only thing that gets me about that is it does feel a little stalkery… that's a bad guy move.” (15:13)
• Both hosts agree on the problematic, predatory nature of such scams but also recognize the ingenuity and effort involved.

4. HISTORIC HOODWINKS – The Caroline Calloway Saga (15:56 – 43:53)

Who is Caroline Calloway? (16:00 – 18:09)

• Laci introduces Caroline Calloway, an influencer known for elaborate Instagram storytelling, outsized creativity workshops, and an imploding book deal plagued by over-promises and under-delivery.
  • “Caroline made a friend… Natalie Beach… who wrote this article about her in 'The Cut'…” (16:50)

Influencer Labor and Manufactured Persona (19:26 – 20:27)

• The duo reflects on the manufactured nature of influencer life.
  • Jameela: “It's an amazing amount… They are their own publicist, they are their own agent… it's wild.” (20:04)
  • Laci: “If your friend is not taking 50 photos on rapid flash and different angles, get you a new friend.” (20:33)

The Book Deal and the Uncredited Co-Author (23:14 – 26:43)

• Caroline and Natalie, high on Adderall, co-wrote two-thirds of a book for which Caroline got a $375,000 advance; Natalie negotiated a 35% share—yet received no official credit.
  • Laci skewers their informal, haphazard business arrangement: “This is a crackhead deal. Don't sign crackhead deals.” (25:43)

Workshop Fiasco: The "One-Woman Fyre Fest" (27:12 – 43:53)

• Caroline pivots to selling $165 “creativity workshops” without securing venues or content—promising homemade salads, flower crown secrets, and personal letters.
  • “She promised homemade care packages… 1,200 mason jars… didn't understand how big that was…” (29:57)
  • With logistical failures mounting, attendees got generic experiences and frequent refunds.
• Ultimate “secret” to flower crowns: “She would clip it [a flower] in the hair and… whisper… ‘the secret to flower crafts is there is no secret.’” (33:16)

Social Commentary on White Womanhood and Scams (38:34 – 41:24)

• Laci and Jameela highlight the social dynamics that let certain scams persist:
  • Laci: “If I was a white woman, I would be doing my fair share of scams off of just white womanhood…” (38:51)
• Jameela remarks on the audacity and the lack of accountability:
  • “How did she not get sued by the first publisher, I have no idea. She's whimsical. She's going straight to the Bad Place.” (43:41)

Caroline's Shameless Rebranding (41:04 – 43:25)

• Caroline now leans into her scammer reputation, announcing forthcoming books titled "Scammer":

  “The antidote to shame is exposure. Going on pre-sale on my scamiversary this January.” (41:24)

• Both hosts marvel at how infamy feeds the influencer economy.

5. Scammer of the Week: Psychic Grifts and Self-Scams (46:00 – 56:45)

• Laci and Jameela discuss the classic “cursed family” psychic scam, wherein a fortune-teller extorted $71,000 from a client “to banish a demon from her daughter,” collecting lavish goods and cash under false spiritual pretenses.
• On psychic exploitation, Jameela relays her own experience:

  “They prey on women who aren’t happy with their love life… ‘there’s a curse on you…’ It would cost $1,000 to $12,000 to lift it… if you don’t, you’ll die alone.” (47:44–48:21)

• Jameela confesses a self-scam: spending $17,000 during a lonely, codeine-fueled year on premium phone lines to psychics and sex workers.

  “There are people, there are sex workers and psychics out there who have really intimate knowledge of my life that I don’t remember telling them. Isn’t that embarrassing?” (55:42)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Lying to Get Ahead:

“No one can. You already got the accent. I love an accent. As a scammer.”
— Laci Mosley (00:56)

On White Woman Scamming:

“If I was a white woman, I would be doing my fair share of scams off of just white womanhood. …Trip and fall damsel, cutting the line; the whimsy scam!”
— Laci Mosley (38:51)

On the Absurdity of Calloway’s Flower Crown “Secret”:

“She would clip a few flowers… pose for a photo… then whisper into each guest's ear, ‘the secret to flower crafts is there is no secret.’”
— Laci Mosley (33:16)

On Influencer Labor:

“It's an amazing amount that they are their own publicist… manager… it's wild.”
— Jameela Jamil (20:04)

On Shameless Scamming:

“How did it end? She was like, the demon is almost out of your daughter. But you know, I am gonna need a dish rack.”
— Laci Mosley, on the psychic scammer (50:33)

On Being Scammed by Herself:

“I fucking scammed myself.”
— Jameela Jamil (56:06)

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Important Segment Timestamps

• Scammer and Hustler Origin Stories: 01:20 – 05:05
• Listener Letter: Sext & Blackmail Scam: 05:06 – 09:59
• Catfishing Pickup Artist – Bar Scam: 12:31 – 15:45
• Historic Hoodwinks: Caroline Calloway Explainer: 15:56 – 43:53
• Scammer of the Week: Psychic Grifts: 46:00 – 56:45
• Jameela’s Self-Scam Confession: 54:25 – 56:45

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Episode Vibe & Takeaways

Scam Goddess shines at the intersection of hilarious storytelling and sharp social critique. Laci and Jameela dissect scams both major and petty, showing how much of influencer culture is performance and misinformation. The episode blends empathy for the hustlers with clear-eyed recognition of who gets away with what, and why.

Final advice from Laci:
“If you gotta put a crystal in your booty hole every day to feel good, do it.”

And as always:
“Stay schemin’!”

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Follow Scam Goddess for more episodes at [@scamgoddesspod] on social & check out Jameela’s I Weigh Podcast for more thought-provoking comedy!

Transcript

[A]

Scams C. Robbery and Frauds. Scams. CA Robbery and fraud. Scam Goddess. What's poppin, Congregation? It's your girl, Lacey Mosley, AKA Scam Goddess. And we're back for another installment of. Yes. Scam Goddess. I named the show after me. Guys, I am so excited for our guest today. She is a queen. Like, she came in and the energy just changed in the whole studio. Honey, we got Ms. Jamila Jamil. You've seen her on the Good Place. You've seen her on all the things. You've seen her on all of the Internet. Oh, God. A woke queen. Hello, Jamila. How are you?

[B]

Hi. I'm all right. How are you? Thanks for having me.

[A]

Thank you for being here. Yes, sis. And looking all cute, too, honey. Y' all can't hear how cute can y' all hear how cute she look? Y' all can.

[B]

No one can.

[A]

You can't. You already got the accent. I love an accent. As a scammer.

[B]

I love your accent.

[A]

What part of the UK are you from?

[B]

I'm from London.

[A]

Ah, yeah. Wait, where in London?

[B]

Notting Hill. The most London part of London.

[A]

She cute. Okay. I live there.

[B]

I moved there because of the film.

[A]

Really?

[B]

No, literally, I moved there cause of the film.

[A]

It's so cute there.

[B]

So cute.

[A]

I love the. They have that market, right? Like that Portobello. Yes, I love the Portobello market. I lived there for a few months. Not Notting Hill. I lived in Ealing, which is, like, outside, but we would train into London every day and, like, work and shit.

[B]

Why were you.

[A]

You know, honestly, probably scams, now that I think about it. I went as a study abroad for like four months, but it turned into scams.

[B]

Oh, great.

[A]

Yeah, I ran a theater there.

[B]

Oh, my God, I love this. You'll catch me if you can.

[A]

Yeah. I was 19.

[B]

Is that your favorite film?

[A]

No, but it is up there. You know what I mean? I found some scammers a little more impressive than Leonardo in that movie. But I did enjoy that one.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But no. So I lived there and I operated a theater because I was 19 at the time. And the woman who ran the theater was, like, really obsessed with marrying her boyfriend, who I guess was like in a class above her or something like that. And eventually she just stopped coming to work and she just gave me the keys and just would not come.

[B]

So as a teenager, you were running a theater?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Jesus.

[A]

It was very fun.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

A little stressful. You know, sometimes people come calling for bill payment and things and I was like, I Don't know how to.

[B]

Were you genuinely scamming at that time?

[A]

Um, I didn't know that I was, but I think that I was.

[B]

I was 19 when I pulled my first scam.

[A]

Oh, what was that?

[B]

I. Oh, I got. I lied about becoming. Well, no, I wanted to become an English teacher and I lied that I had an education, but I didn't. I left school at 16. I got hit by a car and, like, broke in. I got hit by one car into another car, broke my back and didn't have any education. But I have this accent that makes me sound like I have an education.

[A]

You do sound.

[B]

And you are very smart. No, I'm not. I'm really not. Just the accent. And so I used that accent and lied about which university I'd been to, lied about my age and became an English teacher. A fucking English teacher. I was responsible with other people's minds and education.

[A]

Now, was this in America?

[B]

In England?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

That's even Beverage Street.

[A]

Oh, that's fancy.

[B]

It was wild. And so it kicked off my career. And it was there that I was, like, hanging out with all these other teachers who were all in their 30s and 40s who were twice my age. I was in a pub and that's where a producer discovered me. And I ended up getting a job on television. But I like, totally, like, illegal. I think what I did.

[A]

I don't know. I don't know about.

[B]

They should have done a background check on me. That's not my fault. That's their fault.

[A]

Yeah, but you weren't a criminal. You just didn't have the degree. And if the kids.

[B]

I did a little lie.

[A]

Were the kids learning some things?

[B]

Maybe they didn't come there to learn. But, you know, everyone. There's a lot of foul language that I think a lot of people have inherited from me. But, yeah, no, I was about 19 when I started my sort of pathological lying.

[A]

I love that. I love a scam origin story. And also that means that you were supposed to be there. That all was a hustle, kismet. Hell, yeah. And that's all we do in this industry, especially as hustles. And I'm sure every kid who got blessed to learn English from you is like, oh, my God. Jamila Jamil was my English teacher. They probably so happy about that.

[B]

I don't know. We'll see. I would think their parents are thrilled.

[A]

Now, can they read? I don't know.

[B]

I don't know. I shouldn't have done it. I don't know what the Fuck I was doing. I just knew that I didn't want to go back to school. I would have done anything. I would have lied.

[A]

You went back to school, though?

[B]

No.

[A]

Didn't you teach at school?

[B]

Well, I went back to school to teach, but I've never learned anything. I don't know. I don't read. I don't know anything. I just have this accent.

[A]

I find this so hard to believe. Jamila is a good scammer. I've read things that you posted online. You definitely read, and you are definitely.

[B]

I don't read. I read essays sometimes, but I can't read a book. I have no attention span. I'm a scumbag. I'm a trash filled scumbag. It actually feels really good to just say this out loud and get this off my desk. I'm so fucking tired of pretending that I know anything. It's good to be here with you. Thank you for this moment.

[A]

This is a safe space. Yes, sis. Well, speaking of. Speaking of scams, was that a bad segue? Y' all don't tell me. Okay, I'm tired of y' all tweeting me notes about this show. You hear me? All right, so, guys, what's hot and fried? I'm gonna tell Jamila. Actually, we have a listener letter. And I'm gonna call her Light Skinned Keisha. And for those of you who know who Light Skin Keisha is, you're welcome. It's a band. But Light Skin Keisha says, dear Scam goddess, love the show. It's the highlight of my week. Okay, I'm not gonna read all that, but thank you. This story. Okay, so this is a story that I swore I would never tell anyone. Oh, but you already tell it, sis. Okay, spill it. But I think you'll appreciate. And I'm gonna break my promise. And I don't think the person listens to your show anyway. And that's his loss. Well, damn, sis. Read o. I used to work with this guy whose sole purpose in life seemed to be to try to get attention from girls on Tinder at bars, so then he could brag about his exploits at work. Okay. Likely trying to compensate for the fact that he was a dead ringer from Stinky from. Hey, Arnold. Damn. Oh, you don't like this, man. He had a method where he would swipe right on every single person on Tinder because in his mind, this would allow him the maximum number of matches and thus have the best chance of getting someone. Okay, I've heard a lot of guys do that. Yeah, like, they'll just swipe right on every.

[B]

They don't even look at the screens. My friends don't even look at the screens. Just throwing out a wide net.

[A]

I mean, honestly, relation. Love is a numbers game.

[B]

Yeah, I agree.

[A]

I treat it like the casino. I'm like, okay, I only need to be at the table for an hour, and in 15 minutes, I'm gonna get hot. I used to not date at all. I didn't date for seven years. And my mom was like, you should probably start dating people.

[B]

How old were you?

[A]

I'm 28.

[B]

No, how old were you?

[A]

Oh, where was I When you weren't dating till now?

[B]

So 21 to 20.

[A]

So 21 to 28? Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

I mean, I didn't have my first kiss till I was 21, so I feel like it's okay to just move at your own pace. Why did you not date?

[A]

Cause I was busy.

[B]

Fair.

[A]

I was trying to get to the money.

[B]

Well, look at where you are now. That's it. You were dating the money.

[A]

Fair. But now I'm like, I need someone that I can love and also maybe would be my assistant.

[B]

Oh, God, you know what? You're so hot. I actually think you could find this in this town. Truly, it's outrageous. Wait.

[A]

Oh, Jamil, you don't have to tell us, but are you dating around?

[B]

I'm dating. I'm dating. But I've been with the same person for five years.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

Are happy. And so, yeah, I'm off the market. Thank God. Cuz I have, like.

[A]

Oh, the market is bad, honey.

[B]

I just, like, I don't have the. The skills sexually, romantically. I just can't be out there.

[A]

It's a lot, honestly, truly. And like, this guy is the main reason I'm concerned. Like, he's swiping right on everybody.

[B]

So what does she do?

[A]

So she says, an important thing to note is that I seem to have earned a reputation, probably from all the shady I did in my past. Okay, sis, rid yourself. That I'm the person you call for advice if you happen to find yourself wrapped up in some shady or need a shady fav. Okay, so you're the better call Saul about your friends. I love it. Fair. Okay, so she says, I had a reputation for not being a snitch, which. And I'm ruining it right now. Okay. Says, let's get to the story. I'm skipping a lot of this. He was texting with a girl he met on Tinder, and they got to sexting naturally. You know, A plus B equals D. And eventually she sent nudes. So he sent some nudes in return because that's the hospitable thing to do, right? And every guy is sending nudes. I feel like you don't even have to take a fresh nude if you're a man. You just out here got him, Right? I hope y' all taking better nudes than you used to. Okay, no dirty bathroom, you know, maybe no.

[B]

Underneath angle with the veins. We don't want to see that.

[A]

No. And add a pen cap for scales.

[B]

Yeah, I just don't want. I don't want it.

[A]

Yeah. No. Ooh, no. Yeah. You gotta make sure it's manscaped. Y' all don't be sending the rough stuff or at least going to edit nap. It's too many airbrushes out here. Throw a little filter on your balls.

[B]

Okay, well, Facetune. Dicktune.

[A]

We should invent Dicktune. We need to make dicktune. We could make so much money.

[B]

We would make so much money also. Everyone would benefit from that. Obviously, I'm against Photoshop, but not in this instance.

[A]

But only, like, it only enhanced. Like, I don't know. See, because I'm. Now I worry. Like, you send it in hand stick, and then you get there and you see the real one, and it's not.

[B]

It's false advertising. Okay. All right. So. Okay, so what does she do?

[A]

So they're sending nudes. A few exchanges after this, he gets a text from the girl's father or stepfather. Oh, my God. Guys, I have talked about this scam before it came back. I should have skimmed this further. Okay, guys, this is the scam where you send nudes to a woman. Guys, we've talked about this. And then the father, in quotes, responds to the nudes and says, you're sending these to an underage girl and then extorts money from you so that they don't go to the police.

[B]

I've heard about this sort of thing. A friend of mine recently went through something like this where he. He got a message on Facebook messenger from a woman, and she looked really hot in her profile picture. And she was just like, hi, I'm friends with a friend of yours. I. You're really cute. I want to. I would love to connect with you. And so they start messaging with each other, and things heat up very quickly. And then she's like, I really want to do a FaceTime phone call with you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So he's like, okay. So he agrees to the FaceTime phone call. He Opens up the window of it opens when the call goes through and she's there like furiously masturbating on camera. Like right at the, like, legs akimbo open, masturbating at the camera, almost about to orgasm.

[A]

Did she answer, ask where he was and no.

[B]

And she was just like, exactly no. And so he was like, well, shit, I guess it would be rude to just leave her hanging. So he, you know, starts masturbating back at her. Okay, yeah, this is someone I know, by the way. So I was masturbating back at her and then suddenly the camera swerves from her onto this guy and he's like, that's it. We have a video of you masturbating and we're going to send this video to all of your people in your contact list unless you go to the bank and Wire 1000 DOL to me right now.

[A]

So even on FaceTime, they're getting people

[B]

FaceTime and Facebook is where they come in and they like, you know, because you can reach anyone on Facebook.

[A]

That's so true.

[B]

Yeah. Dating scams are so scary. And this nudity is so scary. I don't have pictures of my tits on my Internet because I. Yeah, I just worried that it would just get out there. Anything I had taken back in the past, I stand by those photographs. Like, I sent those pictures because my tits look good. Damn it. You know?

[A]

Yeah, that's a blessing. Honestly, like, nudes of me younger will always be like, I won't mind if a tit pig. But I actually don't take nudes. I've always been really weird about it because I've been nervous about them being shared. A guy asked some guy on tv, the TV actors, I'm one of them and I'm still like, God. He was like, send me news. And he's like semi famous. And I sent him a picture of my face and I drew a stick sexy body on the bottom.

[B]

Amazing.

[A]

And the body was sexy. I was like, now you go ahead and have you some fun with this figure body, but I ain't sending you my titties. I don't know what you think this is, sir.

[B]

No, I. Well, yeah, I've been in long term relationships.

[A]

That's different.

[B]

20s. No, no. But also, therefore, like, they're gonna see you later, right? What are you doing?

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

There's no point.

[A]

And also, this is casual. Like, come on, dude, I like it good.

[B]

Dating scam. I got one other dating scam. I know, yeah. Can I tell you about it?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So this Is again, someone I know. I know because I am a scumbag. I know other scumbags. So there's this guy that I am friends with for some reason, loosely friends with who, what he does. He's not traditionally attractive, you know, by. By society standards. And he has a friend who's a male model, but who's married with a wife. And so he was like, listen, I need a Facebook account to tie my Tinder account to you are handsome and taken. So it's a waste of your face. So can I use your profile to attach to my Tinder so I can at least engage women in conversations because they won't even swipe right on me ever. So his friend agreed.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

He started using this guy's face and the friend never thought it would go anywhere. And he starts to suddenly get loads of matches. So he starts to charm and get to know these women because this guy is funny and he's smart. As often the people who are the most rejected can be right, do the work. They can't rely on their face. Listen, they have great personalities. They're often very good at cunnilingo, you know, you never know.

[A]

Yeah, you gotta put in the work.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

I once dated a man who looked like a pit bull and boy, he had other skills.

[B]

Yeah. Some of the best kisses I've ever kissed were the people who didn't look like they'd be good kisses. Wonderful. Anyway, so I. So he go, what he does is he gets to know women very well and they develop these amazing comrade, like sort of back and forth and they start to develop kind of a relationship over the Internet. And what he does is he arranges to meet them. He does this again and again and again. He arranges to meet them and at the same bar. And he sits at the bar while they sit at a table and they're waiting for the male model to turn up.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And after about 25 minutes, obviously he's not showing.

[A]

This is starting to feel like with his kids.

[B]

I know. And so he waits until they feel completely stood up because obviously his friend isn't coming. His friend's away with his wife, they feel stood up. So their self esteem is dropping with every minute that goes by that they're being stood up. And so what he'll do is after about 20 minutes, when it looks like she's about to leave, he'll approach her and be like, hey, sorry, are you sitting on your own? Do you mind if I join you? And then sits down and already knows everything about them and charms the shit out of them. So then they are like just start kind of falling for him because this is what this. You. You've been rejected by this one man. This other man turns up who's in awe of you because he's less attractive than you, I guess. And he seems to have so much in common with you.

[A]

It's like a film pickup artist.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh my God.

[B]

And it works. And he gets sex that way. I haven't seen him in years, but I heard that he was doing that. And I was like, there's a. It's disgraceful. But there's a tiny part of me that respects the hustle. There's a lot of legwork.

[A]

That is a lot of work. The only thing that gets me about that is it does feel a little stalkery.

[B]

It's disgusting. Yeah, he's disgusting. He's a pig.

[A]

He's preying on people. And I wanna think he's a nice guy and he's just like. But I don't know if he is. That seems like a bad guy move.

[B]

Maybe this is why I don't see him anymore. But. Creepy fucking thing to do, isn't it? Why do people doing this to each other all the time?

[A]

Hell yeah.

[B]

How genius to wait till someone's self esteem has dropped and then swoop in,

[A]

get sadder and sadder. You watch them on the cosmo and they on the fourth sip.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh no.

[B]

That's so awful.

[A]

That's tragic.

[B]

Anyway, sorry.

[A]

Wow, that's a real scam. That's an even better scam than what was called in. Cause we've actually already talked about that. Damn, girl. So listen, the next time you get stood up, if a gentleman comes around and he seems too familiar, he has

[B]

the same favorite movie as you.

[A]

Run. Run. S Run away. Because he set you up. Yes. All right, guys, we'll be back after a break from some non scam advertisements scams. Guys. And we're back. And it's time for my favorite segment of this show, guys. Historic Hoodwinks. So this is where I will regale Jamila with a very historic hoodwink. And I'll get her opinions. And guys, you have been tweeting me about this for a long time. And I know I took a long time to give it to you, but sometimes I good things you just have to wait. Caroline Calloway. So I asked Jamila earlier if she knew who Caroline was and she said no, she doesn't know who Caroline is. So this is gonna be fun. So Caroline is a 28 year old Instagram influencer with over 700,000 followers. She is a self described writer, art historian and teacher. She's first became Internet famous for long captions chronicling misadventures as an American undergrad at Cambridge University and was later known for mysterious dissolution of her big book deal Last January. She created a creativity worksh which was billed as a tutorial to architect a life that feels full, genuine, rich and beautiful. But the event ended up being compared to a one woman fire fest. So Caroline made a friend in creative nonfiction workshops at nyu. Her name is Natalie. So Natalie is the friend who wrote this article about her in the Cut. And this is a really popular article. And this is when I first started hearing about this scam and her name is Natalie Beach. I think Natalie is obsessed with Caroline and kind of just willingly wants to wear.

[B]

Caroline is a lamp.

[A]

Yeah. So I don't think she got scammed, but you can decide for yourself and the listeners can too.

[B]

Did I just say she wants to wear her as a lamp?

[A]

Yeah, and it worked for me.

[B]

Okay, well, no, I appreciate your rolled with it.

[A]

I did. I was like, okay, then maybe that's what I'm saying.

[B]

I really haven't slept. Go on.

[A]

I'm not in Hill, you know.

[B]

Okay, so Natalie's a freak, Caroline's an asshole. Keep going.

[A]

That's a perfect summer section. So Caroline's always dreamed of being a writer and saw Instagram as a good platform to share her life story. Because, you know, Instagram, Instagram captions, that's basically like writing a book, right?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah, we've all written a book by now.

[B]

Oh God. I've done some terrible end of the decade ones last year that I just want to delete.

[A]

Woo. I mean, I think my book is mostly comprised of Drake lyrics, but I'mma still call it an Instagram book. I'mma make a coffee table for you hoes. I got y'. All. So Caroline's account was called Adventure Grams and the tag was you can have an adventure anywhere if you're curious. Okay, sis. I like the branding. So the girls became very close friends. And that December, for her 21st birthday, Natalie gave Caroline a gift. Three dinner plates stamped with the Yale crest. When Caroline unwrapped them, she broke into tears, which I was like, huh? Why, sis, you didn't go to Yale. But later that winter, Caroline nonchalantly informed Natalie that the Yale plates had been stolen out of her apartment along with her graduation ring. Okay, so Natalie says she thought the girl was lying to her, but didn't call her out on it. And then a few weeks later, she saw her wearing her graduation ring, but didn't mention it. Okay, this is a weird lie.

[B]

This is very strange.

[A]

The gifts you gave me were stolen from my apartment. Like this seems like somebody who just enjoys lying, because what's the point to

[B]

this lie if you're gonna go all out, Go full Kim. Kim in Paris. Not to say that was a lie, but, like, that would be the kind of story.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Do you know what I mean?

[A]

Yeah. Don't do, like. But I guess if you're a liar, you gotta start warming up. You gotta practice, like, everything else.

[B]

Start slow. Yeah. Start small.

[A]

Little lies.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

If you're used to me lying, how do you know when I'm telling the truth?

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Yes. So Caroline's Instagram, they go on this, like, Italian vacation, and that summer, they leave their hotel in the morning, and Caroline would pack several outfits so that she could pose for days worth of photos in one afternoon. Which I've heard of Instagram influencers doing this. Because, like, if you wear the same outfit, even if you go to a bunch of different places, like, bitch, we already saw that outfit. So we need some new fashions.

[B]

God.

[A]

Okay, so she's traveling around.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

That's why I don't get mad at Instagram influencers, because people get mad at. And they're like, you know, you don't have a real job. But I'm like, do you know how much work it takes to pretend a life?

[B]

Oh, it's amazing. It's an amazing amount that they are their own publicist. They are their own agent, their own manager. It's wild.

[A]

Their own assistant, their own writer. Yes. So they do this and they're. Natalie was instructed to find Caroline's best angles and keep the shadow out of the frame, which. That's real photography. Like, if you got a real good Instagram friend, like, I should never see their shadow in your photo.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yes. And every Instagram friend, like, if your friend is not taking 50 photos on rapid flash and different angles, like, get you a new friend.

[B]

I've never done any of this.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I am shocked. You always be looking so cute in your photos.

[B]

I don't really think I. I don't think I do. Normally, I'm just swearing at someone on my Instagram. That's it. It's just I photograph tweets in which I'm being belligerent to someone else. I need to up my Instagram game.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I feel like I've seen my Boyfriend takes genuinely horrendous photographs of me.

[A]

I feel like that's every man six foot six.

[B]

It's just the top of my head and nothing else. And the top of my head looks specifically like a cat's anus. I don't know what it is. I don't know what it is.

[A]

You've seen the top of your head a lot too.

[B]

Yeah, because he fucking photographs it all the time. It's the angle that I see. Anyway. Go on, go on. Okay, so Caroline, the asshole, what's she doing?

[A]

Yes. So Caroline is satisfied. So she takes all these photos until Caroline's satisfied with the shot. Then they hurry back to the hotel, connect with the wifi, and they brainstorm the caption together. So this is what they're doing for a whole summer in Italy.

[B]

Ugh, so dull, right? But I guess, what a dry holiday for Natalie.

[A]

Natalie was soaking this shit up. And that's how you know Caroline was a charismatic bitch. I told y', all, if you're gonna be a scammer, you gotta have a great personality. You know what I mean? Something to distract the people with so they end up missing their flight back to the U.S. but Caroline saved the day because she spoke a little Italian and she pretty cried in front of the airport staff. And then she sat cross legged on the floor in Milan with her parents credit card fanned in front of her. So basically she had all the credit cards out and they put a lid on the cab capital and put a little on the Discover and put it on the MasterCard. So Natalie offered to spend the summer editing Caroline's Instagram post to pay her back because Caroline like paid for their flights back. So when the summer ended, Natalie returned to NYU for her final semester and Caroline flew to Cambridge University to restart her first semester. In 2015, Natalie began receiving texts from friends along the lines of, hey, have you seen this Caroline story? Is your Caroline friend? Is she famous now? Caroline got an age. So this is like the earlier days of Instagram, right? So like when 90,000 followers was considered to be like probably a lot, you know, I mean like 90,000 now is like a medium level like influencer, which like now brands are targeting micro influencers. So if you have like 30k or

[B]

up, they'll like this story about Caroline that's going around.

[A]

So the story is, is that they know like basically everyone who follows Natalie on Instagram maybe also follows Caroline. And now they're seeing like her followers are growing. Now she's around 90,000, 100,000 followers, which at the time was, like, a lot.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So they're texting Natalie and they're like, oh, your friend, she's famous. So now Caroline got an agent who has the same agent who represents fat Jewish Kat Marnell. And we didn't know at the time, but also Donald Trump.

[B]

Lovely.

[A]

Donald Trump has an Instagram agent.

[B]

That's great. Oh, this man, he's a Twitter agent.

[A]

Oh, God. Truly, truly. He needs a filter.

[B]

Take that man's phone away.

[A]

So it's been ages since they last spoke at this point. And Natalie reached out to Caroline via email, and she says, you must be so happy with that. 90,000 followers and counting. I feel strange being an onlooker. No response from Caroline. Then she emails her again. Wanna bounce ideas off me? Let me know I'm here for you.

[B]

Thirsty?

[A]

Ooh, very. And then the third email. Yo, get back to me, girl. I just wanna check in and be your ally and do some planning.

[B]

She wants to fuck Natalie. I think she definitely. Natalie wants to fuck Caroline.

[A]

Natalie wants to fuck Caroline. Cause the first one is, like, kind of cute. Like, oh, girl, I see you out here popping what's good response. The second was like, hey, girl, you know, I could really help you out if you need some help or anything. Would you need something for me? No response. Next one. Hey, I mean, I'm not trying to be thirsty or nothing, but, you know, I could help you out, though. I could really be your ally. Do you need anybody to clean your home?

[B]

Oh, bless her.

[A]

So eventually Caroline called her back and she said she was back in New York and her book was due after the weekend and she needed Natalie's help.

[B]

No.

[A]

Yes. So they wrote dozens of pages through the night. They wrote about Caroline's New York, Sweden, love triangle and European adventures. They were also high on Adderall. So they got high on Adderall and wrote a book. Do you think that would be a good book?

[B]

No. Maybe. I don't know. I've had friends who've left with a double first from university on Adderall.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, like, that was a big college drive.

[B]

It really depends on how talented Natalie is, because it just makes you. It's the same talent at speed.

[A]

Right? Exactly. And then you're probably.

[B]

She writes this book for her.

[A]

Yes. So. And Caroline also got this Adderall from a doctor that she paid cash for in Washington Square park, just to note. So around hour 35, Caroline officially asked Natalie to come on as a paid editor. And she asked what a fair percentage. Natalie suggested 35% of the fee or, you know, I guess, like the advance. So Caroline agreed to this. Natalie's involvement is uncredited still to this day, so she never credited her. Duh. I mean, y' all made a deal on Adderall in the living room at probably, like, 2:00am she was like, hey, girl, up. Okay. So it's really fun. We're really writing this book. It's really good. Okay, girl. I think you should actually come on and be an editor, girl. Yeah, no, I think that'd be a great idea, girl. How much money you want? I don't know, 25%, 35%? Is that a lot?

[B]

Is that half?

[A]

That's not half. All right. Ah, come on. Like, what kind of deal is this, y'?

[B]

All?

[A]

This is a crackhead deal. Don't sign crackhead deals. So the book publisher agreed to pay Caroline $375,000 in advance.

[B]

Damn.

[A]

For this book. So when Caroline went back to Cambridge, she told her friends that she was having a tough time and wasn't sure if she was gonna be able to finish the book at all. So Natalie comes in and tries to help her and finishes, like, two thirds of the book, but Caroline don't like the book anyway. Caroline does not finish this book, which is not shocking at all. And so she goes to Instagram and tries to make a statement out of this, saying that she didn't want make a book that was all about men and sexual exploitations and that as a feminist, she. She didn't stand by the publishers of this book. Oh, my God.

[B]

Bullshitting nightmare, right?

[A]

So she basically turned her skating away and not making this book into feminism. You gotta love it. So her publisher asked her to return over $100,000. I don't know if Caroline had it. She seems like she got an Adderall problem. She really likes furniture, I guess. So after this falls apart, I guess she has to pay the publisher back, like, $100,000. She decides to come up with something called the Creativity Workshop. Do we think this is gonna be a legitimate workshop?

[B]

Not judging by everything else she's done. Absolute bullshitter. Oh, God.

[A]

So Caroline temporarily gave up on the book. Okay, we know that. And focused on a new project. A creativity workshop.

[B]

I met someone the other day who told me that they were a creative catalyst as their job.

[A]

Stop.

[B]

That's just a fucking social work social worker that. You're a social climber. You're just a fucking social climber. That's all that that is.

[A]

Now, can that be a profession? Anything can be money.

[B]

Anything can in Los Angeles. Anything can be a profession. A creative fucking catalyst. That's just someone who introduces other famous people to other famous people.

[A]

Yo, but that's a. The branding is strong there. Were they good at creative catalysts?

[B]

I don't fucking know. But this is just madness.

[A]

Did you have a talk?

[B]

I mean, I was a fake teacher, wasn't I? So.

[A]

Yeah, but that's better.

[B]

Even getting the part on the Good Place, they were like, have you ever acted before? And I was like, mm, yeah.

[A]

But you have you acted like a teacher?

[B]

Well, yes. I'd also done some theatre in England when I was six at my school. So I didn't tell them the details of that. I just said I'd been on stage in England, technically. True. When Mike Scher asked me, he was like, can you improv? I was like, mm, See what I just did? Yep, yep, I'd improv right there. I began my improv career with him in that moment.

[A]

You said yes.

[B]

And so I can't really judge this woman, but oh my God, she also takes ages to do a scam. So where are we at now with these creative workshops?

[A]

So she got Instagram followers, but yeah, no, she didn't finish that book. So now she's doing the creative workshops. Yeah, she says that the girls are supposed to come over, eat homemade salads together on the floor of a venue and learn the secret to flower crowns and have inspiring creative kill me camaraderie.

[B]

I want to know there's no attack on white people, but is this a white person?

[A]

You know this is a white woman.

[B]

Okay, fine.

[A]

This is dripping in caucasity.

[B]

Yeah, this is.

[A]

This is a black woman. Any woman of color would have never gotten this far. Are you kidding me? I wish we could flower crown. The secret to flower crown. Do you notice it, girl?

[B]

Someone would have shoved a flower crown up my asshole if I tried to do this. Okay, keep going.

[A]

I would have been taken to jail immediately.

[B]

Yeah, flower crown. Okay, so flower crown.

[A]

Yes. So the secret to flower crowns. Which we will find out in a moment. Moment. So she's charging. How much you want to think she's charging for this workshop?

[B]

Oh, God. $15.

[A]

1 65.

[B]

Jesus Christ. Oh my God, this is so stressful. I'm sweating.

[A]

So she hadn't booked any venues or planned any logistics for how to provide the food, but she's already advertised this on her gram, honey. Cuz she's visualized. She's a manifestor. Okay, so she promised homemade care packages for each attendee that would include a mason jar. Come on now, if you're living your best Instagram life and you ain't got no Mason jars, like, what are you doing?

[B]

Who even are you? What kind of animal you are?

[A]

Nasty bitch. Get a Mason jar with a packet of wildflower seeds, a notebook, and a personal letter in response to an email that attendees could opt to send her. So she ordered 1200 mason jars and Jordan, can we get a photo? So Caroline took a photo of the 1200 mason jars she ordered because she didn't understand how much 1200 Mason jars was. So the photo on the right there that says, no, I've made a terrible error. Is a huge crate of Mason jars. Oh, my God. That she said she was gonna put salads in. And this is, like, a huge. Like, I'm trying to think of what, sis? Okay, first of all, Caroline, I don't know what, you thought 1200 Mason jars was gonna come in a tampon box, sis. Like, that's a lot of jars. Like, this is like. Like, I'm trying to give y'. All. It's like, the size of, like, a love seat, but, like, a box. Like, several boxes also says, you could have saved the money that you spent on these Mason jars and just catered the food.

[B]

Like, I just gotten someone to ghost write your book. Okay, go on.

[A]

So days before the first event in New York City, she told fans that she couldn't write the personal letters as promised because she got too many letters. So instead. Instead, she offered to make time to talk to each attendee at the event and take pictures in a photo booth together. And she offered to respond to each email with an emoji that let you know she read it.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Imagine you sending a letter to Caroline, and you're like, hey, Caroline, I've been so inspired by your Instagram recently. My mother was hit by a bus, and we've been underground and lots of medical bills. And, you know, you inspire me every day. And then the response is, like, smiley with my tongue out. Yeah, it's an eggplant. She sends you back a peach. You're like, I don't know what to make of this.

[B]

Who buys into this stuff?

[A]

The girls. The 53% are lovely white women out there who. This is a safe space to probably talk about how they voted for Trump. Over. Over.

[B]

Over.

[A]

Oat milk and flour crowns.

[B]

Jesus Christ. Okay. Also, don't. Hey, hey, hey. Oat milk is wonderful.

[A]

See, Caroline might have got you.

[B]

Y. She found her way in a cloud flower crown there. Okay, go on.

[A]

So instead of giving everyone a Flower crown as a favor. Now, remember, she built the whole workshop

[B]

on what did she give them? A used tampon. Like, where are we at now?

[A]

So she clipped a few flowers into their hair, and they posed for a photo. Then she would snatch them out and put them on the next guest.

[B]

Oh, wow. Who's playing this woman in the movie of her stupid fucking life?

[A]

Hopefully me.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Which would make zero sense, but I want to be involved. No. So she. She would clip it in the hair and be like, all right, 1, 2, 3, smile. All right, bitch, give me that back. And then when they took the photos, she would whisper into each guest's ear, the secret to flower crafts is there is no secret. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. You came in for the secret. And the secret is she used the fight club.

[B]

Yeah. This is ridiculous.

[A]

Also, like, she must just have energy. You know how some people just have vibes. Because I'm like, yo, she's a idiot.

[B]

So it must be something. It must be really beautiful or character.

[A]

She's like the. She's like an average white woman woman. She's like, wait, so how did this.

[B]

I don't understand how this has happened now.

[A]

This is what I do understand about this scam.

[B]

It's like, she's like, but these are stupid replacements. She's a fucking idiot. Look how much. Look how many jars she ordered.

[A]

So I'm gonna get a picture of Caroline up for you, Jamila, so you can see her. She's a cute girl. She's not like, overly skinny or overly enhanced by any, you know, plastic surgery or anything like that. She's like a regular white woman.

[B]

Is this her?

[A]

That's not her.

[B]

No.

[A]

Google Caroline Cowie. So she's like, to me, attainable. Because, you know, if you look at, like, Kylie Jenner on Instagram, you might be like, oh, you're out Lambo to match your everyday outfit. Like, that's not a life that I may be able to achieve. You know what I mean? Like, I'm not going to be able

[B]

to go get micro influencer life.

[A]

Yeah. I'm not gonna be able to go get the ass that. That, you know, you got shot up in your booty. But this girl, I could be Caroline Calloway. And I feel like that's what women think because look at her.

[B]

Next girl.

[A]

Next girl next door.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So girl next door. But then living.

[B]

She does have a butter wouldn't melt kind of face, doesn't she as well? Yeah.

[A]

And it looks like, if this girl can live this fabulous life, then why Can't I? So let me follow her and let me go to her workshop so I can also be like. She's like the supreme of the basic.

[B]

I was gonna say the basic bitch boss. Yeah, the queen bee.

[A]

Yeah, she is the queen bee. Basic. That's what it is. I get it. So Andrea park was an attendee, and she says she went half ironically. You know, you went cuz you wanted that flower crown and that secret and that oat milk. Don't lie.

[B]

And no one's spending $160 for irony in their 20s.

[A]

Yeah, no, that's expensive. You know, listen to Atlantis Moret. That's free irony. Like, it's like, nobody going to do this. So she's says she went and Calloway clipped the flower in her hair and whispered the secret thing. And then she said that the rest of the event was pretty okay. She said they didn't get everything that they paid for, but she was fine with it. And so the events got worse. The event in Washington, D.C. caroline had her mother, who lives nearby, make salads for everyone after she realized how unpleasant it was to saute vegetables for 50 people. People, girl,

[B]

I hate this woman. If I ever see her, I'm going to beat her ass.

[A]

She was like, I was going to cook. And then I started cooking, and I was like, oh, this is dumb. You got to cook to cook. I thought I was just going to manifest cooked vegetables. What? She also planned events in Boston and Philadelphia. But after booking an event space in Brooklyn, New York, which I'm guessing was probably very expensive.

[B]

Very expensive.

[A]

She posted a poll on Instagram asking if Boston and Philly fans would be okay with coming to the Brooklyn space instead.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So she was like, hey, y', all, I know you bought a ticket for Boston and also for Philly as well, but would y' all mind actually take buying a bus ticket and coming to New York for your event?

[B]

Jesus.

[A]

And the crazy thing is, is that this.

[B]

That's what, $200?

[A]

Hey, you had 165 for creativity. You probably got another 200 for the U.S. also, maybe someplace throw up.

[B]

Gone.

[A]

So the response to the poll had people saying, like, this is our space. Or yes, people were down for this scam. I love it. The New York event showed a room full of seemingly young white women. No shock there. And the first hour was coffee hour, where Caroline was not present. No shock there either. In response to the online scrutiny, she started to refund some of the tickets. She said, I wanted to create an experience that would be my perfect weekend Day with cozy acoustic music and a plant filled space. If I had known how hard it was, I never would have tried. How can you be mad at this woman?

[B]

I'm so mad at this woman. I've worked so hard my whole life. Yeah, I've lied, but I've turned up and fucking delivered. I didn't say I could act. And then, I mean, was I great? I don't know. You were great. You know, I remembered my fucking lines, didn't I? I showed up every day.

[A]

You were fantastic, Jamila. And that's the difference is like, everybody does a little scheming and scamming sometimes in life to get to the place that they want to be, especially in our industry, because there's no clear. It's not like we become doctors where we like go do residency and then we go.

[B]

Like, that's a lie to get in because like, that's just not built for us.

[A]

You gotta come in, you gotta put your pussy on the table and act like you don't want anything from anybody and lie. It's just a part of it. But this, the difference is like we, we still came afterwards and maybe we

[B]

brought at least some of the dads

[A]

the talent and, you know, the things that they wanted anyway. Whereas Caroline was like, look, guys, I didn't know that when I said I was gonna do things, I actually had to do them. And that has been very stressful for me.

[B]

Was she wealthy?

[A]

No, she's like a middle class woman, but I love that.

[B]

Does she have like some sort of dysphoria? You know, like Rachel Doziel, like the sort of like dysphoria where she thinks. Thinks she's like Ivanka Trump. Do you know what I mean? Like, born into an amazing lineage, has no work ethic. Like, what was her life? I mean, how do you end up like that? What kind of fucking terrible parenting?

[A]

Honestly, I want to say that this is when. Because if I was a white woman, I would be doing my fair share of scams off of just white womanhood. It's just there's so much out there to get.

[B]

What would be your favorite white woman scam?

[A]

So I would definitely be doing like the trip and fall damsel, you know, trying to, trying to get some trip and fall suits going wherever I could. I would definitely be doing like the, I don't know, scam where you just like skip everybody in line. Cause you're like, what? There was a line.

[B]

I don't know, My whiteness has blinded me.

[A]

What? Which I do that one sometimes. Anyway, and I did it in Mexico, and some very angry white people got mad at me, but I held my place. Okay, look, Trump is president. I skip everybody in line, but, you know, like, just light little white women. This whimsy scam.

[B]

How long did this shit go on for?

[A]

It sounds like, oh, honey, it's still going on.

[B]

So this was like, she's still out

[A]

2015 when it started, honey. And I ain't even got to Caroline today because this is still out here.

[B]

Please.

[A]

Yeah, we're pretty much at the end of her. But I will say that I think that this comes from, like, you know, white women and other white women aspiring to live these carefree lives. And she took advantage of that. And I think the thing I love about her most is, like, she's never pretending or blaming it on anybody else. She's just simply being like, I don't know. I didn't know when you did things, you had to work. What?

[B]

So where is she? Not she not in jail.

[A]

Oh, no, honey. She is out in these streets. And on these. You can follow her on Instagram. Caroline now posts prolific stories, dozens per day, with long blocks of text documenting her life in New York City. She posted a meme on Instagram December with the caption, for many years, the number one reason I was still in my book deal is that I hadn't checked my email since 2015.

[B]

Oh, wow. So she is kind of a creative genius, isn't she?

[A]

She's brilliant. She said so I never signed the cancellation contract. Now my reason is that all the bad press has made my life story more valuable than ever. Life is weird.

[B]

She has 719,000 followers and count.

[A]

Counting.

[B]

And it's called. Her book is called Scammer.

[A]

Yes. So now she's coming out with two books. One is called. And we were like. And the other one is titled Scammer. And the caption reads, the antidote to shame is exposure going on pre sale on my scamiversary this January.

[B]

Oh, she is kind of brilliant.

[A]

She's a Jamie. And honestly, like, just being like a kind of cute, whimsical white woman. Like, why not let that be your lifestyle? Oh, my God. Like, the Kardashians are just.

[B]

What in the name of Kardashians?

[A]

They get paid to be Kardashians. Why can't she get paid to be a basic whimsical white woman?

[B]

Well, because she's a thief. They at least turn up with all the basic shit that they promise. You know what I mean? I mean, no. Then again, There was Kylie's lip kit. Yeah.

[A]

And then they also do steal they stuff from people.

[B]

That's true. I've only just started hearing about this. That young black designers, they rip off their designs and then. Then they accuse other people of ripping off their designs.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And it's like lawsuits against them. Right, Kardashians.

[A]

It wasn't enough that y' all stole our faces and our asses and our hairstyles? Like, come on, now you got to steal. You gotta actually steal the design from the little black girl, too. Like, damn. And they have, like, Chloe's, like, good American. There's tons of scandals of, like, where they've been in litigation, where smaller designers, like, they're taking. Taking it, like, stitch by stitch. Like, Chloe would order it and be like, oh, that's cute, sis. Send me 12 of those to my house. And then she'd be like, y' all rip these apart and make them.

[B]

Holy. I didn't know that.

[A]

Ordering them directly from the designer.

[B]

I obviously have the very public dispute with them over diet and detox teas, where they're just like laxatives that don't make you lose weight. That in itself, like, that product is just insane.

[A]

Yeah. Any fit tea, guys? It's. It's a shit tea, okay?

[B]

You'll just shit fire for three days, and then you won't shit again. And then you'll need more because you've got some more shitting of fire to do. And that's just it. And then eventually your asshole falls out of your body. Yeah.

[A]

Keep your booty holes, y'. All. There's better.

[B]

Don't give it to the Kardashians.

[A]

Don't give your booty ho to the Kardashians. You know what? I will give my booty ho to the Kardashians. I actually sold my booty holder, Kim K, last week. You know, you don't need a booty hole to live that. That's a myth. It's a scam. No. Guys, shout out to Caroline Calloway. I don't think I dislike her.

[B]

I dislike her. I dislike her. Cause her scams are boring and annoying. I think she's fucking uncreative and she

[A]

might be a little boring. I mean, this.

[B]

I don't even know if she's really gonna finish these two books, even. I think this is just another scam.

[A]

She's gotta finish one of them.

[B]

She's not gonna finish anything. How she didn't get sued by the first publisher, I have no idea. Cause she's whimsical she's going straight to the Bad Place. To hell she goes.

[A]

Oh, no, she's going to the Bad Place.

[B]

Damn.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Adios, Caroline.

[A]

You heard it here first.

[B]

Going on rot. All right, guys, she's following me.

[A]

Oh, my God, she's following me on Instagram. I'm leaving. Meanwhile, you over here giving inspiration to Caroline.

[B]

I've said terrible things on this podcast, but I stand by them. I don't like any of this, mate. I think you're. You know what, Caroline? If you're listening, because you follow, I think you're a bad guy. I don't like what you did. I don't like what you did to Natalie. Although Natalie, you know, Natalie would give her booty hole to you.

[A]

Natalie gave her booty hole to Caroline a long time ago.

[B]

Ugh. What a bellend.

[A]

Oh, God. Oh, wow. We've never had a Ja rule.

[B]

Doesn't seem that bad anymore.

[A]

Ja rule was fun. You know, where would I be without Jewel?

[B]

Very fun for Fyre Festival. At least you got sandwich. That's more than Caroline.

[A]

Sandwich was.

[B]

No. Okay, fair enough.

[A]

You know, at least, Caroline, you only gotta go to Brooklyn. You don't gotta go to the Bahamas and live in a FEMA tent.

[B]

I definitely feel better about all of my scams.

[A]

Yeah, no, your scams are.

[B]

I delivered.

[A]

They're not even scams. You were just opening doors for yourself. That's called creating opportunity. That's called opportunity Catalyst acumen.

[B]

Oh, thank you. An opportunity catalyst. Is that what we're calling ourselves now?

[A]

Yes. Just like you had a social catalyst.

[B]

You and me, we're gonna start Dictune Dicktune. Yes. That's what's gonna happen. That's our scam.

[A]

Let's do it again.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

All right, guys, we'll be back after the break. Robbery and fraud.

[B]

All right, guys.

[A]

And we're back. And I'm here with Caroline Calloway's number one fan, Jamila Charlotte.

[B]

Jesus, it's so stressful that she follows me. What does that say about me that says bad things about me?

[A]

Is Jamila Caroline's inspiration?

[B]

Oh, fuck off. That's the rudest thing anyone's ever said to me.

[A]

Yeah, tweet at me and tell me I'm me. Let's get.

[B]

Jesus Christ.

[A]

I'm sorry. I'm weak. Oh, that made me weak.

[B]

I wonder who else is following me. This. You know what? I just. I need to change my ways. I take the. I take the blame.

[A]

Keep it up. Keep it up.

[B]

I take the blame.

[A]

So, guys, we're back with our last segment, Scammer of the Week. It's always the saddest part, cuz after this, I have to let Jamila go. But guys, Scammer, I've had a lovely time. I've had a lovely time with you, man. Police. Police arrest a palm reader for stealing over $70,000 from a client on December 17th. Somerset Police. And this is December 17th, 2019. Somerset Police launched into an investigation over a person named Racy Milanovic. Now, my name is Lacy. This person's name is Racy. Now, I feel like if your name is Racy, like, I would already be on high alert.

[B]

Yeah, that's.

[A]

That's a scammer name. She was 37, seasoned. I love it. After. Probably been doing the scam for a little bit after a resident reported that she was tricked into giving her large sums of money. Milanovich. Sorry, sis, let me put some respect on your name. Milanovic operated Tracy's psychic palm reader. That's the name of the place. So her name is Racy. The psychic place she running is called Tracy Psychic palm reader.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

You gotta have a alias if you're gonna be a good scammer. Oh, which Caroline, by the way? Her real name was Caroline Gottshaw, not Caroline Calloway. Just in case y' all want to Google her government. So she also had a scammer name. So she's running this back to Tracy, running this palm reader place out of Somerset, Massachusetts. I can't imagine that there's many palm reader places in Somerset, Massachusetts, Massachusetts. I feel like you probably got the

[B]

market share corner the market.

[A]

Yeah. Because in la, I can literally walk down the street.

[B]

You can't walk five minutes without saying,

[A]

and it's like 20 palm read. And like, have you ever gone into the psychic and got one done?

[B]

Yeah, once. And then they do the whole thing of like, oh. Because, you know, they prey on predominantly women who aren't happy with their love life or their family life or with the way that they look. And they're like, oh, you see you. You could be so happy. But the problem is there's a curse on you. And it would cost 1,000 to $12,000 to lift it. Now, I mean, I'm not even charging you for my time. This is just the stones I would have to buy. But, you know, if you don't lift this curse, then you're gonna die alone and look bad and your family's all gonna die. Cobwebs will probably scam. It's a fucking lie. I walked straight out of there. But Christ, it's so scary.

[A]

So someone has propositioned you with the. We gotta get this hex off your puts. And.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Wow, that's a. That's a good one. Because I feel like they look at your hand, like. Oh, yeah, I'm looking at your lifeline. Okay. I'm seeing a lot of cobwebs. That is definitely on your vagina.

[B]

I took my hexed pussy right out of there and made peace with her.

[A]

Hey, you did it for free.

[B]

Got a boyfriend. She was wrong.

[A]

She was absolutely wrong. And this is. That's. It's interesting that you say that because that's pretty much what Tracy is doing over here.

[B]

Oh, that's the scam. That's what everyone does. Go on.

[A]

So Milanovic found she stole approximately $71,000 from the victim. And the reason that she did this was because she convinced the victim that her daughter was possessed by a demon and that cash and household items were needed in order to banish the spirit from her daughter.

[B]

How did these people sleep at night? Okay, go on.

[A]

So she said, hey, sis, we figured it out. Your daughter. There's a demon Beelzebub all up in your daughter. Okay, what I need is an IKEA rug. You know the one that's like, tesselated. I need that rug.

[B]

Oh, my God. So she decorated her house lowest of

[A]

key, like she was. She was asking for.

[B]

Oh, Caroline's not that bad.

[A]

Like, literally. Towels, bedding. She said, if I'm going to get rid of this demon, I need a thousand count.

[B]

How the fuck did she buy for $71,000? A sofa, a bed, a new house.

[A]

I feel like she must have got a deposit on her.

[B]

She must have a whole apartment. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

So she used this family to furnish and buy a condo. I love the audacity of, like, I'm gonna get money from you and I can't just buy a condo. I also am gonna have you furnish it.

[B]

See, I like this woman. Cause she's thorough.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Do you know what I mean? Caroline half assed it.

[A]

She truly did. I'm like, where is it? She really didn't commit.

[B]

Like, it wasn't just like, just. How dare she? What a waste of fucking time. She's a scammer again.

[A]

I think you're right about that. Caroline doesn't even have ambition as a scam.

[B]

She doesn't really have a plan. Like, she just. She doesn't even have work ethic in the scam. This woman knows what she fucking wants. She's Going after it. She's abusing a mother's love for her child.

[A]

Like she's doing it.

[B]

She's a sociopath all the way. Okay, so how did it end?

[A]

She was like, the demon is almost out of your daughter. But you know, I am gonna need a dish rack. Yeah, like that's really gonna take the demon out.

[B]

Yep. Some Cristal, some really expensive foods. I'm gonna need rack a one year supply of whole foods.

[A]

Yes. To furnish this. This is how we keep the demon away.

[B]

A really good dildo. The good one.

[A]

Yeah. Not the one with the batteries.

[B]

Yeah, the Bluetooth one.

[A]

I need to be able to listen to Maxwell while I Exactly. Masturbate in the to.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I want sound. Surround sound, underwaterproof dildo. That's what's on going to take Otherwise your daughter, she got she out here. So she ends up getting property over $250 by trick and then larceny for $1,200. Intimidation of a witness. Which racy. Did you. Did you go try to shake them down after they reported you? It seems like she might have been like the demon is coming back. She was like, if you take this to court, then the demon definitely going to take your daughter away.

[B]

Oh my God.

[A]

So anyone who believes that they may have been victimized by Milanovic is asked the Somerset police officer Donald Comeier. Guys. And that number is 508-679-2138.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You could call the cops on racy or did you have a good time? Think about if you had a good time.

[B]

No one had a good time. Nobody had a good time.

[A]

Are you sure?

[B]

I haven't had a good time listening about this woman. It's such a regular scam. But $71,000, that's a what is.

[A]

So her daughter must have at least been bad. She must have been a bad kid.

[B]

She probably just had too much sugar.

[A]

Something was wrong with her daughter. Because what otherwise why would you believe this? Also like, you and your daughter need to go to therapy. If you think.

[B]

Can you imagine how pissed you'd be with your daughter that she cost you $71,000 because of her bad behavior?

[A]

I mean, but I feel like y' all didn't try no other methods. He was just like, nah, we we really working on this demon thing. I was like, no one was like a child behavior psychologist or. Or you know, exercise.

[B]

This woman with me was like, you mother's gonna die if you don't give me this $12,000 or something like that. And I was like, no, no, she's not. And then the next day my mother had like a heart issue and had to go to hospital. And I was like. For a split second I was a bit like, oh no. Because I was like 20. I was like, what if this is real? But I just was too cheap.

[A]

You think she was over there throwing them chicken balls?

[B]

I was like, she'll be fine. My mother will be fine. She was, yeah, yeah.

[A]

But also like, this is sad, but like all of us have mortality. Like, what do you mean? Like somebody's gonna die, Everybody's gonna die.

[B]

I know.

[A]

Oh, I didn't know psychics were doing this. I thought they were just selling you crystals and putting yonis in your. I didn't know they was doing all this.

[B]

No, they. And they use the scariest thing that could possibly happen to you to, to threaten you into it. It's really amazing.

[A]

I thought that this, I thought more psychic work was just fun scams.

[B]

No, this has gone dark.

[A]

It has.

[B]

This is, this is like.

[A]

This is not normally what happens.

[B]

I feel sad.

[A]

I don't know if I feel sad.

[B]

I need a hug.

[A]

I'll give you a hug. But I don't know if I quite feel sad. But I do feel like, guys, if you're going to see a psychic, which I'm not going to tell you not to, cuz I personally love being scammed sometimes. I called the psychic, the psychic high line the other day. California psychics.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Cuz I just wanted to have a good time and they. I just wanted to see if they could tell me anything that I felt like was interesting by me giving as little information as possible. So she was like, oh, what's your life like? I was like, it's good. She was like, okay, how's home? And I was like, it's a home. Like I literally was trying to give her the least amount of information to see if like anything. Cause I don't know. I don't know if I believe in this stuff. I believe in whatever makes you feel good. You know what I mean? If you gotta put a crystal in your booty hole every day to feel good, do it.

[B]

Should I say something embarrassing?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

When I was very sick with pneumonia for like a year pretty much when I was about 26. And I was also having a complete nervous breakdown. And so I was given codeine all the time, which in England is much easier to get hold of.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So essentially making my. No, no. Codeine is like what you put in

[A]

sort of cough syrup.

[B]

Cough syrup wrapper juice. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Lean.

[A]

Yes. Clean as.

[B]

So the children. Yeah, exactly. So I. So I would take it and I would. It would completely change my personality. I would completely black out. I would be awake, but I would never remember it in the morning. So at the end of this year, I got this phone bill for like 17. $17,000. I was like, how the. Do I have a phone bill? So I called up the company and I was like, you have been scamming me. This is an outrage. No one has a $17,000.

[A]

Are you calling God?

[B]

Yeah. And then they told me I've been calling these X directory numbers. So I'd been calling like hookers and psychics in the middle of the night just because I wanted to chat. And I knew that they would talk to me because it was, you know, by the minute. So they were just listening to me ramble on about my life and I just. I was just lonely in the middle of the night. Codeine makes me really chatty. And I spent $17,000 on, on. On sex workers and, and psychics.

[A]

$17,000.

[B]

$17,000 on. I think it was predominantly, probably psychics, but there are people, there are sex workers and psychics out there who have, who have like really intimate knowledge of my life that I don't remember telling them. Isn't that embarrassing? $17,000. I was in so much debt at the end of that.

[A]

Honestly, that is less embarrassing.

[B]

I scammed my fucking self.

[A]

It's more awestruck. Like, I'm like, wow, what a way to spend money.

[B]

No, I've never touched codeine ever again. Now I'm still paying off that bill.

[A]

It's good to know that. Damn. Now I'm thinking about all the time I spend on the phone with my friends for free. I need to get in there to the phone business.

[B]

Oh, you do?

[A]

I'm gonna start taking a credit card. When my friends call me.

[B]

Do it. You'll make so much, you make $17,000 in a year.

[A]

So it was like over the course of a full year. Yeah, okay, that's. That's still not reasonable. I'm like, I would have maybe like.

[B]

My phone bill now is $60 a month. Like, that's. It's insane.

[A]

Yeah, that's like a lifetime of phone bill. Jamila.

[B]

I fucking scammed myself.

[A]

Listen, I'm proud of you. And shout out, shout out to those workers who know everything about Jamila Feeling now. Christ, make them sign an NDA. You gotta call all the hot luck.

[B]

Too late. Everyone can blackmail me. They record those things as well.

[A]

No, they record then. I did not know that, y'. All.

[B]

Someone has a video of me being like. And so, yeah, I feel. I. I don't know.

[A]

It's probably all like that. They're probably. We can't do anything with this.

[B]

Okay, it is what it is.

[A]

Y' all stop confessing y' all murders to Ms. Cleo because they recording that. Yeah, that's. That's the scam of the week right there. Don't confess y murders no more on these highlights because they. They are recording. Guys, that has been an episode of Scam Goddess. As always, you can email your scams into us if they're retired, please. If they're not retired, I don't want to fuck up your bag. Scamgoddesspod. Gmail.com also can find us @scamgodesspod on the Instagrams and the Twitter. And as always, you can find me at D I V A L A C I Diva Lacey on all platforms. And, Jamila, where would you like to be found? That's what I ask people.

[B]

Well, I have a podcast. It's called the Iway Podcast with Jameela Jamil. It's on this very network. Yes, it will your sister. And it's a podcast about my I Weigh movement. It's about mental health. It's about shame. It's funny, it's stupid, it's sad. It's me.

[A]

Oh, I love it. Yes, yes, yes. So listen to that, guys. And then anywhere else you'd like to

[B]

be found, you can find me on Instagram. Caroline Calloway is following me, so I must be pretty good. It's amiliajamil official, and I'm on Twitter. I'm very rowdy. I'm annoying. I get shit wrong. I'm mistakes. But I always say sorry.

[A]

Yes, listen, we all do. I love it. All right, guys, stay scheming. I damn goddamn.