The Multilevel Marketing Mom with Lizz Adams

Summary

Scam Goddess — "The Multilevel Marketing Mom" (with Lizz Adams)

Podcast: Scam Goddess
Host: Laci Mosley
Guest: Lizz Adams (comedian, actress, beauty influencer)
Release Date: April 21, 2020

---

Episode Overview

This lively episode of Scam Goddess, hosted by Laci Mosley with guest Lizz Adams, dives deep into the world of multi-level marketing (MLM) scams—especially those targeting moms and women. Combining personal anecdotes, historic scams, and sharp comedic banter, Laci and Lizz break down how MLMs operate, why they're so hard to shut down, and the unique scams perpetrated both by corporations and enterprising individuals looking to 'beat the system.' The show also features funny digressions into influencer culture, Instagram scams, and a wild scammer-of-the-week segment.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Influencer Life & Instagram Scams

• Laci and Lizz open the episode swapping stories about pretending to be beauty influencers to score free products at events.
• They discuss public backlash against influencers and whether "influencer" is itself a scam job.
  • Quote (Lizz, 01:21): "I don't love the term influencer because it is so loaded, but I got a bunch of creepy dudes following me on Instagram. And sometimes brands give me stuff or pay me money to post things."
• Instagram's removal of likes is dissected:
  • The hosts suspect it's less about mental health and more about tightening control over ad revenue.
  • Quote (Laci, 06:46): "They want you to pay for promoted posts...Instagram's on that scam."
• Fake followers, fake likes, and social-proofs scams are explored, and how the Instagram algorithm manipulates user experience for profit.

2. Listener Scam: Pizza Hut Schemes

• Listener "Tino" shares his DIY Pizza Hut scams during his time as a delivery driver in the early 2000s:
  • Selling discarded buffet pizzas to skaters for cash.
  • Clipping coupons from door hangers to create fake $5 “tips” via the manager, convincing corporate the coupons worked.
  • Quote (Laci, 12:27): "While not taking advantage of my locally owned store. Cause they're reimbursed for Every coupon."
• Laci and Lizz praise harmless "fuck corporate" scams targeting big chains, joking about targeting Papa John's next.

3. Historic Hoodwink: The Multilevel Marketing Scam

The Charles Givens MLM

• The main deep-dive centers on the origins and operations of a major 1980s MLM scam by "wealth guru" Charles Givens.
  • His seminars promised secrets to wealth for escalating buy-in fees.
  • Laci and Lizz break down the cult-ish appeal, branding rebrands ("multi-level marketing" = pyramid scheme), and scams that target financial vulnerability.
  • Quote (Laci, 18:34): "If you're vulnerable financially, there are a lot of ways and means for people to exploit you. ... The despo meter. How desperate are you?"
• The guest reads from the perspective of a person whose parents both scammed and were scammed by the Givens scheme—piggybacking on official events to route commissions to themselves.
  • Memorable moment (25:09): The parents place their own ads back-to-back with Givens' so that callers become "their" leads. "I'm gonna go with the number I heard last."

MLMs as Cults and Family Disasters

• Discussion on the cult-like nature of MLM communities—social status, belonging, endless upselling, even family kids hired as "payroll" for tax write-offs.
• Emotional and financial devastation recounted: lost savings, ruined marriages, and devastating “advice” (like a man dying after cancelling life insurance).

4. MLM Catastrophes: Real-World Cases

• Laci & Lizz read off real stories from MLM victims:
  • Cleaning products ("chemical-free" claims) send a kid to the hospital (35:55).
  • Quote (Lizz, 35:47): "That's like Parenting 101. ... Children are crazy."
  • LuLaRoe’s poor victims spend thousands on unsellable ugly leggings—creating financial ruin and even divorce (39:00).
  • General overview of MLM structures, “uplines” and “downlines,” and the scam of blind inventory.

5. Recognizing and Resisting MLMs

• Recitation of the most notorious MLMs: Amway, Herbalife, Monat, Nerium, LuLaRoe, Rodan & Fields, Doterra, It Works, etc.

  • Quote (Laci, 44:48): "These names ... they all sound like drugs to help you get it up."

• MLMs’ continued existence is attributed to massive lobbying and regulatory loopholes.

  • Quote (Lizz, 48:57): "There are multi-level marketing company lobbyists in Congress ... Our government is corrupt and they're supporting these companies."

• Practical tips to avoid MLM scams: beware the use of "toxins," don’t pay upfront to join anything, always google for scam warnings:

  • Quote (Laci, 51:47): "So if someone says the word toxins and can't name anything specific, they are trying to swindle you."

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Child Scams (19:02):
  "The first paycheck I ever received was from a multi-level marketing scheme. The employer, my mom, who'd hired an 11-year-old me as a tax write off. Ooh, shout out to your mom a scammer." – Laci

• On MLMs as a Pyramid Scheme (15:40):
  "Multi level is a motherfucking pyramid. This is just a rebrand. And scheme is the marketing." – Laci

• On MLM “Uplines” & “Downlines” (34:52):
  "The way that MLMs work is you get into it and then you're incentivized to recruit other people. ... If the way that you make money is through recruiting more than through product sales, that's a pyramid scheme." – Lizz

• On Government Corruption (48:57):
  "There are multi-level marketing company lobbyists in Congress ... Our government is corrupt and they're supporting these companies which is why they're not getting shut down even though they're super predatory." – Lizz

• On Amway Odds (49:51): "The Amway failure rate stands at 99%."

---

Scam Tips & Red Flags (51:46 – 54:40)

• Don't trust vague "toxin removal" claims—ask for specifics.
• Never pay upfront to "join" a business or agency.
• Always Google the company or recruiter—scammed victims will have posted warnings.

---

Scammer of the Week (55:16+)

Dontrell Scott — The Powerade Bandit in a Wig

• Known for robbing banks in a series of different wigs and leaving a Powerade on the counter.
• Famous catchphrase: "This is a robbery."
• Laci and Lizz delight in the absurdity and style of his 16 mugshots, each in a different "struggle wig."
• Quote (Laci, 59:08): "'You are robbed.' No, no, no, that's past tense... I'll never get this right."
• Quote (Lizz, 61:29): "Some of these are good wigs. These are not just like Halloween store wigs."

---

Important Timestamps

• Influencer culture discourse: 01:00 – 06:32
• Instagram algorithm/fake followers: 06:32 – 08:22
• Listener Tino’s Pizza Hut scam: 09:02 – 14:18
• Historic Hoodwink (Charles Givens MLM): 14:59 – 34:06
• Real-life MLM horror stories: 34:06 – 44:02
• List of MLM brands & how to spot scams: 44:02 – 54:40
• Scammer of the Week (Dontrell Scott): 55:16 – 62:50
• Wrap-up and Liz’s handle scam: 62:59 – End

---

Episode Tone & Closing

True to Scam Goddess style, the episode is high-energy, irreverent, and full of authentic banter. Laci and Lizz speak in a blend of comedy, truth-telling, and empathy for scam victims—and a gentle admiration for harmless corporate subversion.

Closing Mantra:
"Stay scheming, congregation!"

---

For more scammy stories or to submit your own (especially those targeting Papa John’s), listeners are encouraged to contact Scam Goddess via social or email.

Transcript

[A]

Scams C, robbery and fraud. Scams C, robbery and fraud. What is up, congregation? It's your girl, Lacey Mosley, AKA Scam Goddess. And we're back every week, honey. Y' all know how it goes. I'm super excited because I have one of my friends in the building clothing. She's an actress. You can catch her in the next season of Dead to Me on Netflix, which is pretty much all about scams that show. And also you can follow her on Instagram at Liz party. She is a beauty influencer. Liz, Adam.

[B]

Hi. Hi. Hello.

[A]

I've actually gone to a beauty influencer party with you.

[B]

We scammed hard that night.

[A]

We did. I pretended I was a beauty influencer.

[B]

We got a really good grab bag. A lot of good merch.

[A]

Lot of good merch. Like, fully sized products, too. I was like, yes, I'll share this with my many beauty followers.

[B]

I mean, that's the only reason to become an influencer is for the free stuff, right?

[A]

Although I will say there's so much hate for influencers right now, and people think it's a scam job. But as someone who does scam jobs, I'm gonna say that it's not.

[B]

I mean, it is actually a lot of work. People very much underestimate how much work goes into crafting the perfect Instagram post. Right. But I also don't take myself that serious. I don't love the term influencer because it is so loaded, but I got a bunch of creepy dudes following me on Instagram. And sometimes brands give me stuff or pay me money to post things. And we all do basically all it is, you know, we all have a.

[A]

I love my creepy Instagram man following.

[B]

Oh, they are the most loyal following.

[A]

The most loyal. Honey.

[B]

Every photo, they're like, so sexy beautiful. And I'm like, thank you.

[A]

Not so sexy beautiful.

[B]

It never makes sense. The grammar's always terrible. But you know what?

[A]

We know the sentiment, which is love. It's love, you know? Cause, like, I don't know, we record these in advance. They're evergreen. But currently, I won't share the date with you. But there is some talk about destroying or not destroying. I say destroying because generally my loaded opinion, the likes. But the likes. Taking the likes off the gram has been, like, a big thing for a while. And here's my issue with it. When I look in the comments, it's all the haters in the comments, like, oh, well, now these fucking Instagramers won't be able to have pay rent. Why don't you Want them to be able to pay rent, bitch. Like, let's stop acting like we ain't seen some on Instagram or seen some on a fucking blog and been like, I want to do that. And then you go and do that. And that's some shit you never even would have fucking known about if somebody hadn't posted about the shit. Like, we all get joy from it. And it's always the motherfuckers who don't get no likes anyway. Like, I'm sorry, you posted a picture that was a bad angle of you on a platoon boat or whatever the fuck, and it got one like. Like, that's not my fault.

[B]

I definitely see both sides to it because there are, like, studies that say that social media, Instagram in particular, especially for young people, makes them depressed and sad. Especially if they're, like, comparing how many likes they get to, like, the cool kids at school or whatever.

[A]

Young people was already depressed and sad. Being young is a fucking scam.

[B]

That's true. Young people are going to be sad no matter what, right?

[A]

Because when you're young, you never know how fucking hot you are. You don't. You don't know that you should be out here running scams and games on all these niggas. I got lucky. My mom told me. She was like, you got to realize, like, if you. If you really knew how beautiful you were, you would be a monster.

[B]

And I was like, mine is the opposite. I'm thought I was way hotter than I was when I was young, when I was, like, in high school, and I look back on pictures and I was like, oh, my God, I thought I was such hot shit.

[A]

But you were, though. Cause, like, you also gotta realize, like, the timing, like, you're around all these other kids who are just as awkward in their awkward phases as you are. And you was the cute one, so you were the hot one. You know what I mean? I don't know.

[B]

It's levels to me. I'll show you some pictures. I wasn't that cute.

[A]

It's levels to this shit. But I will say that I think kids were already fucking depressed. We don't know how hot we are. We don't realize that one day you're gonna have to pay bills. We don't understand that. We live, most of us, not all kids, you know, some of y' all had job and shit shout out to y', all, but most of us, you know, we're getting a free roof over our head meal.

[B]

Congratulations.

[A]

Three times a day.

[B]

Congratulations, you have jobs.

[A]

Congrats, well, you know, shout out to work ethic. You know what I mean? We all don't. Everybody has a different story. That's true. But I think that maybe it is making people a little more depressed. I could see that just, like, going

[B]

on, I think just that comparison, or I think it's like, we all show only our best faces on social media,

[A]

except for some people. Don't you gotta follow some sad people, balance it out.

[B]

Yeah, but then it's like, sometimes with the sad people, they get too sad. You gotta find the Goldilocks zone of being a real human on Instagram.

[A]

I like unhinged people. I follow unhinged people on Instagram that I know just in my personal life

[B]

that are just super messy, girl.

[A]

And we have it full, like, out here, like, and bitch. Another thing. Let me tell y' all about to, like, go out.

[B]

I mean, I do live other people's drama. I live for other people's drama.

[A]

So good.

[B]

As long as it doesn't touch my, like, nearby vicinity, then I'm very happy, too.

[A]

Yeah, these are, like, acquaintances from college or acquaintances from high school. People that if they came to la, they'd know not to ask to hang out with me. Like, you know. But we follow each other on Instagram. Cause I want to see the message. I want it.

[B]

Oh, that's good.

[A]

Yeah. But so I just want you guys to know that the reason that Instagram is purporting that they're taking away likes is because they're saying, like, oh, we want to make sure that people can have a positive experience on here. And we want to stop cyberbullying. We also want to start shit posting, where people are just posting things that they know are going to garner attention that are offensive or racist or homophobic or, you know, xenophobic or whatever. But that's not true.

[B]

I mean, you can still see how many likes you get.

[A]

Yeah, but I think the reason that they're doing this is because advertisers target specific influencers based on their like count. Because you can't do it based on followers. Cause you can buy followers.

[B]

Well, you can buy likes, too.

[A]

Yeah, that's true. That's true. That's a real scam. You can buy them both, but you can tell when. Right? They are very cheap.

[B]

Actually, it's like three bucks for 500 likes or something. Crazy.

[A]

When I started my Instagram page for comedy, I considered buying some followers or some likes, and I went and looked it up, and I was like, there's

[B]

no shame in the game. As far as I'm concerned, as long as everybody likes, like, knows what's going on and you're not taking yourself too seriously. I'm just like. But you do what you gotta do.

[A]

You can tell that it's.

[B]

You can always tell. Especially if it's like someone who has like 20,000 followers and they get like 100 likes, then you're like, hmm, some may end up.

[A]

Cause the ratio is that you're supposed to get 20% of your followings likes on each post.

[B]

No, that's high. I would say 10%.

[A]

Really? Maybe it is 10. Maybe it is 10. Yeah. And then if it's a good post, you might get upwards of that. But it is low.

[B]

I mean, these days. And the reason everyone's been complaining about Instagram in general is cause the algorithm has changed and it's been slashing likes a lot. And what people are saying is it's because they want to get people to pay for promoted posts. Yes, because Instagram's trying to make that money too. Instagram's on that scam.

[A]

And that's exactly why this is happening. Because they want you to pay for promoted posts. They want you. And like, now there's promoted posts in your stories as well. They change all the algorithms so that the people that they want you to see on the Explore page come up first. Like, it's all about them making more money and taking control away from the users. Because before it was like, you know, some people were getting 10 cents a, like on a post. You know, that all changes with this infrastructure. So it's like, fuck Facebook. Fuck Mark Zuckerberg and his head, his serial killer haircut. And his eyes that don't blink is

[B]

so upsetting to me. There are a lot of things that are upsetting about that man.

[A]

I've never seen the back of his eyelids. I don't know what it looks like. Then the eyes always open.

[B]

He looks like a lizard person for sure. Like, he. He'd be a good candidate for, you know, if. If lizard people were a real thing.

[A]

I feel like he married his wife and he was just like, teach me how to be human. Like, his wife's whole job is just like instructing him on how to be a human being.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

He's like, I have everything else going for me.

[B]

Hello, wife. Would you like to make sex with your human husband?

[A]

And the eyes, he's like, oh, my God. Imagine those eyes on top of you, just never closed. No.

[B]

Oh, no, I don't want to. Everyone strike that from your Memories.

[A]

Remember it. That's what I. Honestly, I'll look at a dating app and I'll be laying on my back. And that's why.

[B]

And you imagine that.

[A]

I imagine them on top of me and sometimes I'm like, ah. And then I'm like. And I swipe. No, no. Yeah, you gotta know, you gotta look.

[B]

I mean, I guess that's proactive. That's proactive, yes. Thinking into the future.

[A]

All right, guys, that wasn't even the first segment. I know this is what happens when my friends come in is I go on tangents. But let's get into it. What's hot and fraud. So this is where we warn our listeners about scams that are afoot. Because we don't want you to get scammed on the show unless it involves us. Like, if you have a scam that you'd like to promote. Yeah, I have a scam. Do it.

[B]

Yeah. Like follow my Instagram and, you know, send me free things.

[A]

Wonderful. This makes sense.

[B]

Brands listening. Hi, I'm available.

[A]

Right. Available to post for you. Yes. In the most earnest way possible. Like, definitely telling the truth about every brand that I represent. Of course, I actually do try to only rep brands that I like though.

[B]

Yeah, same.

[A]

But so this what's hot and fried actually comes from a listener. I'm gonna call you Tino.

[B]

Tino.

[A]

Tino.

[B]

Love it.

[A]

It's not his name, but that's what I'm gonna call him.

[B]

It's a good name.

[A]

Okay, so the background is from 2 to 2005. I worked at a Pizza Hut as a delivery driver in a small town. One of the ones with like a buffet and dining area is like a good one. As a driver, we're tasked with like distributing coupon door hangers during our regular slow hours. One of the coupons on the hangar was a $5 off delivery coupon. So I just wanna say I know kind of Pizza Hut that he's talking about. Cause the last time I was at this Pizza Hut, Michael Jackson had just died. I don't know why this is such a significant memory to me. It was two. Michael Jackson had died. And me and my sister had just gotten out of school. My mom took us to Pizza Hut to mourn. To mourn. Michael Jackson.

[B]

To mourn Michael Jackson. We didn't know about him yet.

[A]

Listen. We had knew about the little boys. We just knew about off the wall. We didn't know. Listen. I was a smart child, so I feel like I probably had my suspicions, but we. So I was sad. We went to the Pizza Hut.

[B]

Good.

[A]

So I know what kind of Pizza Hut this is. Like, they got the little bridge. They have the little cheat, the cheesy sticks, and then they have, like, the cinnamon sticks that you stick in the cream frosting.

[B]

Yeah, that's good.

[A]

Delicious. So I know what he's talking about. So he said, scam part one. I love the third parts.

[B]

Ooh.

[A]

I would take the discarded buffet pizza during the aforementioned downtime, and I would sell it to skater boys at the skate park for cheap. Like $5, $10 a box. I said. He said, see you later, boy. I'm buying counterfeit pizza.

[B]

This person's name, Avril Lavigne. Tell me the truth.

[A]

Avril got her start slanging pizza at the skate park. He was like, hey, you done with that half pike? You want this pizza? You don't know where it came from. Also, it's not a full circle. He was probably putting the pieces back together.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. This one is special because it has all the flavors.

[A]

I like this because, one, I'm down for food not being wasted.

[B]

Yeah, that's true. That's not actually that terrible. That's not a terrible.

[A]

And the pizza's probably not bad. It's just kids sitting under a heat,

[B]

so eat anything, Right?

[A]

Exactly. And also, this pizza's not bad. We all done had cold pizza from the night before or some shit like that. Like, this is fine. So. And I love that he's selling it for five to ten dollars a box, which is pure profit. Yeah, because he stole it. Scam part two. This was. This was a little more like ingenuity.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I would clip the door hanger coupons, specifically the $5 off delivery ones. Then after a cash tip or no tip delivery, I'd bring back one of those coupons and say that the customer forgot to mention it on the original order. My manager would then alter the order and pull $5 from the till and give it to me as a tip.

[B]

Really? Yes. That is a scam.

[A]

Right? I love that. The manager didn't want to cut. He wasn't like, I take 250, you take 250. Because I feel like we could have made a good amount of change just doing that alone. So he said the prestige. This had the added benefit of making corporate yum brands think that door hanger coupons worked.

[B]

So because he was scamming the corporation, he was scamming Pizza Hut in general

[A]

from the top down. And while not taking advantage of my locally owned store. Cause they're reimbursed for Every coupon. I have made a lot of money off of this homegrown scam and never felt bad about it for one second. Anyway, cool podcast. Fuck corporate Tino. You got it. Fuck corporate. Fuck corporate Tino, you're a king. We. I'm standing right now, as I do the podcast.

[B]

We have no choice.

[A]

We have no choice but to stand. I like this because it's simple.

[B]

It's damn the man save the empire right now.

[A]

Right? There's no way to really get caught with this because even if he keeps redeeming these $5 coupons, the corporation wants them to be redeemed because it says that this is how we're drawing business. Our advertisement is working, and the manager was the one who gave him the $5 from the till. So it ain't even like he went and stole the $5. And what we gonna do? Knock on the door and be like, excuse me, hey, I'm from Pizza Hut up the street. I just wanna know, did you get a door hanger for $5 off?

[B]

Leave my home, please.

[A]

You're not gonna tell me I got on a red shirt.

[B]

I'm gonna call the police.

[A]

I'm doing an investigation. Like, no one's gonna look into this.

[B]

No, that's never gonna happen.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I think small scams add up over time, and those are the most efficient scams because that's when people don't miss $5 here and there.

[A]

Right? Exactly. And also, this wasn't anybody's $5. It was a discount. Right. I mean, honestly, the only way that this scam could be better for me is that if it was happening to Papa John's.

[B]

Oh, yes.

[A]

Fuck Papa John's and that racist ass sweet ass pizza. Fuck y'.

[B]

All.

[A]

That garlic sauce is kind of good. But listen, we can get that anywhere.

[B]

That's true. Okay, that's true. That's garlic sauces.

[A]

So if you work at Papa John's and they giving out coupons. Gone. Scam bag.

[B]

Scam.

[A]

Scams. Popping.

[B]

We give you permission. Use the scam. Papa John.

[A]

Them. All right. Them. All right, guys. We'll be back after a break with some non scam advertisements scams. All right, guys. And we are back. This is my favorite segment of the show. Ooh, Historic hoodwinks. It's where I will regale you, Liz, with a hoodwink that you may or may not be familiar with. In this case, you are familiar with this because you were the one who sent me this article link, which is awesome. We did a little more research in Some different sectors. So we got some information that I'm sure still might surprise you. Maybe not. Okay, let's give it.

[B]

Give it to me. Give it to me.

[A]

So this is the multi level marketing scam.

[B]

I have a feeling right now this is going to be a controversial episode. Because this.

[A]

So many of these exist.

[B]

Oh my gosh. They're everywhere.

[A]

And some of them, it's like there is some kind of benefit. Maybe, but they're low key cults.

[B]

Well, they're pyramid schemes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Is what they are.

[A]

But they're sexier.

[B]

A little sexier. Yeah.

[A]

They're like better branding.

[B]

Like mlm. That's true. Right?

[A]

They already have a name. Yeah.

[B]

Multilingual scheme in the name.

[A]

It doesn't.

[B]

It's not like, hey, join my scheme.

[A]

Yeah. Cause pyramid scheme, it's all in the title.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

It said it's a pyramid and it's a scheme.

[B]

Mm.

[A]

But multi level marketing is. First of all, multi level is a motherfucking pyramid. This is just a rebrand.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And scheme is the marketing. You scheme on people to marketing.

[B]

Sounds sexy. You know, it sounds like, oh, it's official.

[A]

You know, honestly, anytime I'm on a dating app, I don't know, I keep bringing up dating apps, but I think I'm like really on the hunt right now. And I see somebody got a marketing job, I'd be like, marketing? You ain't got a real job. People say they're an advertisement. That ain't no real job.

[B]

Just professional.

[A]

Right. Just tell me what your job is.

[B]

I used to work in marketing. Marketing is actually what I tell.

[A]

It's such a broad phrase.

[B]

It's what I tell strangers when I don't want to tell them I'm an actress. They ask me what I do when I say marketing because I want to tell them what I do.

[A]

I have a degree in marketing.

[B]

I did communications, technically.

[A]

I don't want to tell them what I do either. Like, because when you tell people what you do as an actor, then either.

[B]

Have they seen you in anything? Yeah.

[A]

First of all, bitch, if you seen me, you would have knew you had saw me. We wouldn't have this conversation. Ho. Like, you don't. You obviously don't. I'm not famous, so leave me alone. Alone. I hate it. It's like you got. L. Hold on, let me pull my IMDb, I guess, child. All right.

[B]

You want to. Especially when you first start and you're like, I did like a web series that my friend wrote. It's on YouTube. You can find Also I did a, a commercial for dog food. And like right.

[A]

Literally like, do you have, do you like Purina One? Do moms like you choose gym, like because they maybe you've seen me. I hate that. And we live in la, so it happens a lot. And especially like on dates. Like men are so jaded. I remember going on a date a few years back and I wasn't really acting professionally at the time, but I just moved to Los Angeles and was taking classes at ucb and I went on a date with this guy and he was a financial analyst at a bank.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

He was 35.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I have a marketing degree, so I went to business school. I know that at 35, if you're a fucking financial analyst, no shade if y' all are. But that means you have made no movement.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

In this, in the bank, in the corporate ladder at all either that you started real, real fucking late. And so. But he's trying to flex on me this whole time, like, so how's this working out? So. So you wait tables, huh? Like, this is so like shitty. Yeah. So marketing, we gotta say marketing.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

This is actually from someone speaking in first person about their own experience as being a child in a multi level marketing. So it says I'm telling the story today not because it has anything to do with early retirement, but because I'm financially processing all these years later how the experience colored the ways that I think about money and those who give financial advice and perhaps my worldview overall. If you're born in a scam or a cult, I could imagine that shifted how you think about people. If you're vulnerable financially, there are a lot of ways and means for people to exploit you. We say it all the time. The despo meter. How desperate are you?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know what I mean? If you got a little coin in the bank, you're not as likely to, you know, give up your Social Security and a pin for that's.

[B]

Yeah, that's what they prey on. They're like, do you need money?

[A]

Right.

[B]

I can give you money.

[A]

And you're like, okay.

[B]

I guess so.

[A]

The first paycheck I ever received was from a multi level marketing scheme. The employer, my mom, who'd hired an 11 year old me as a tax write off. Ooh, shout out to your mom a scammer.

[B]

That's a different level of scam when you're scamming your own children. Like all those parents that steal their kids Social Security numbers and stuff. That's trash. That's so messed up.

[A]

I feel For y', all, if your mom or your daddy ruined your credit, ooh, put em in a home. But yeah, so you never know. Put em in a home, I don't know, maybe pinch em a little bit when they're old. If they ruined your credit, pinch em a lot. Okay. And then make em feel crazy. Gaslight em after you pinch em and be like, mama, I told you, that's

[B]

all that you had elder abuse. That's what we're advocating here. Advocating here.

[A]

But only if your parents ruined your credit.

[B]

Only if they ruined your credit.

[A]

Yeah, okay. And you don't gotta do a lot saying pension. You know, like things they'll live, you know, give them their medication. But under the arms is very sensitive. All right, so she put her on as a tax write off one of the secrets to wealth in this program she'd been sucked into. And now she's selling it for a living. So her mother was like doing the secrets to wealth program. Now she's out here, you know, each one reach one, you can tell three people. That's how the pyramid schemes work. So spoiler, she not now nor ever was wealthy as a result of living by this program. Of course not. When I was in elementary school in the 80s and my parents marriage was still amiable, they attended a seminar by a best selling author and self appointed wealth guru, Charles Givens, a mustachioed Floridian. Oop, Florida.

[B]

Mustachioed Floridian is the best way to describe a man, truly.

[A]

And I know exactly what this man looks like now. Yeah, he's a little sweaty always, you know, but he's got on a suit. It's cheap though.

[B]

He's inside, the air conditioning's on, but he is sweaty. It's a little dewy, just. Just a little always.

[A]

And so he promised to share the many tax loopholes he had discovered that could make an ordinary person a millionaire if you paid several hundred dollars and later a few thousand dollars to attend his seminar and become a member of his organization.

[B]

Oh, boy.

[A]

Wow. So one, he starts off low. He's like, okay, it's a couple hundred dollars. Yeah, a couple thousand dollars if you really invest. And I mean, honestly, I would believe this though, because I'm assuming this man is white. Can we look up this man and see if Charles Givens is white? But I'm assuming that he's a rich white man. And I do believe that rich white people know, we all know that they know how to get out of paying taxes.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

So this seems legitimate to me so far. I'M like, it's a rich white man about to tell us how he's evading taxes. Because then I will be sitting in this damn seminar because I'm paying all my taxes right now. And I'm up. I'm giving the government everything they owed. And it's upsetting.

[B]

It's too much.

[A]

I hate it. I asked my accountant, I said, can we get around this? He said, no, it's the law. I said, I gotta fire your ass. I need Better Call Saul. Shady lawyer.

[B]

Yeah, I used to have an accountant that was real shady. But now we're paying back taxes.

[A]

Look behind you. That's Charles J. Givens.

[B]

Oh, he. Oh, my God. Damn.

[A]

He looks exactly like we thought he would.

[B]

In my mind, he was a little more overweight, but, oh, no, I didn't

[A]

think he was gonna be overweight. He got the hair with the. First of all, he got the hair with the part. He's got a thick head of hair. You know, it looks like a winner. He looks like a quintessential rich white man who has evaded every tax.

[B]

And that mustache is like a cop mustache, too. It's, like, very thick and very, like, political.

[A]

It says, I enjoy racism, but it's like, I'm not at the Klan rally, but I don't.

[B]

But I don't mind it. It's okay, right?

[A]

It's like, look, you'll never catch me there. But, hey, the work they do benefits me. So he has some books I'm gonna read off his book titles. One is called Super Self Doubling your Personal Effectiveness. Another one is called wealth without Risk. That's not a thing, Charles.

[B]

Wealth Without Risk.

[A]

I don't think anything good comes without a little bit of risk, Charles. So Charles Givens has another one that's called Financial Self Defense. What does that even mean? He says, how to win the fight for Financial Freedom.

[B]

These are great titles. I'm not gonna lie. That's where he puts the marketing in mlm.

[A]

And he is marketing. And they also look like self help books. Like, if she's on the book, there's a lot of writing.

[B]

The kind of shit that's free to rent on Amazon, Kindle. All these kind of books are always free to get on your Kindle.

[A]

Yeah. So it's understandable how this would be appealing. And then also he's on these books.

[B]

So

[A]

my parents found this information that they learned compelling and motivating and went home and made some changes to their finances and taxes as a result. So they went to one seminar and then they were like, yes, life changing. A few weeks later, they got a call from someone in the Charles Givens organization who asked if they'd be interested in helping spread the word about the program. I wasn't interested. My dad told me recently it seemed a little bit like a multi level marketing scheme. It was not like an MLM scheme. It was. Was a multi level marketing spoiler. But my dad later realized there was what looked like to him, a loophole in their system. So the dad is already a scammer.

[B]

Everybody, everyone involved in this story is a scammer. Yeah.

[A]

Because if you're pulling up to the joint, you're looking for a way to scam the system. You're not about to just be out here doing old fashioned hard work. And to be quite honest, a lot of successful people are fucking scammers.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Because that old fashioned bootstrap shit, that's a fucking lie. It is. You know what I mean? So get out here and get your con on. So get your con on. Get your con on. Get your con on.

[B]

Get your cun on.

[A]

Yes. So he sees this loophole in the system, and they didn't prohibit piggybacking off of the organization's own marketing. So basically, he goes to this event and he's like, instead of trying to be like Charles, maybe I could just be Charles. Okay, I'm fucking with it. I'm fucking with it.

[B]

All right. I'm following so far.

[A]

So the pyramid scheme journey. So my parents began their pyramid scheme journey by following where seminars would be held, calling the TV stations in those markets to find out if the organization was running ads, and then placing their own ads immediately after the official ads.

[B]

Oh, my gosh.

[A]

With their phone number to call for more info about the seminar. No, this is brilliant.

[B]

That is so crazy.

[A]

Imagine if you're looking at an ad and it's like, Charles Givens Financial freedom workshop, call 877-592-today. And then the ad right after, it's like, Charles Givens again. That number is 214-995-6672. I'm gonna go with the number I heard last.

[B]

That first number we gave you was wrong. Here's the better one to call.

[A]

Actually, if you're really interested and would like discount, call the other number.

[B]

This is the cheaper number. You'll pay a little less.

[A]

Brilliant.

[B]

I buy it. They're like, I'm calling that number right now.

[A]

Right? I'm calling it.

[B]

Give me my landline.

[A]

Give me my landline. Pull the cord over here. Oh, my Gosh, that's so brilliant. So they collected the names and turned them in. And if any of those people showed up to the seminar, my parents got the commission. They said, so my dad.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

So my dad says he didn't want to push the program, which he did not actually think anyone could do, but just wanted to get a cut of the fees paid by those already interested in attending. So they were basically being like, sending their own ad out and then saying, like, these are the numbers that we collected. Give us commission on the numbers. So you're still going to Charles Givens workshop, but if you call our number, we gonna get a cut of your feet.

[B]

That's brilliant.

[A]

Like, it's just. Oh, God. Gorgeous. So, of course, at the time, there was heavy pressure to attend ever more seminars and buy every new program themselves. And our house had gradually filled with slick cases full of VHS taps, VHS tapes of the wealth guru himself sharing his secrets. It quickly became clear to me that this felt more like financial advice to them. So now she's like, okay, I thought we were scamming the scammers, but y' all seem to also still be buying into the scam.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Givens was clearly a motivational pitch man. Selling a whole lifestyle, promising anyone could be their best if they tried to achieve it. As my parents marriage went south, my mom took sole possession of the work. And she was thinking bigger. Oh, we'd spend even.

[B]

She's the mastermind. This is the same mom that like.

[A]

Like, put her daughter on the taxes. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. So she's been this whole time. I feel like she's been the mastermind behind all these things.

[A]

Although I will say that dad had a good call.

[B]

He took initiative. He took initiative for sure.

[A]

Yeah, so says that we would spend evenings and weekends going to bookstores in town and putting postage paid response cards into every book by Charles Givens.

[B]

Oh, my gosh. This is like.

[A]

This is wild.

[B]

This is like grassroots scam, right?

[A]

Like, y' all gotta be like, mom, how many more Barnes and Nobles today?

[B]

Oh, my gosh.

[A]

Come on. I just want to go to bed.

[B]

This is so wild.

[A]

Look, Mommy's got a few more Barnes and Nobles to hit. Okay, now you do the dance that I told you to distract the people at the bookstore while I put these cards in. Okay?

[B]

Oh, my gosh.

[A]

I love it. So she began to do the actual multi level part of this thing, recruiting others to work below her so she get a portion of all their sales. We'd attend the given seminars all over the Midwest and set up A table at outside of them encouraging people to sign up to sell the program. So this is not like givens told them to start this table. They're leeching themselves onto an already established multi level marketing scheme.

[B]

Wow. Why haven't I thought of that, right?

[A]

I'm like, maybe I need to be herbalife adjacent. Yeah, we're herbaliving, honey. Okay.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Yeah, this herbalife. But we not trying to make herbalife your life. We trying to make herbaliving. Okay, Call this number after all the herbalife commercial. This other number, this the one you want to cop? So all of that work gave my parents, and later my mom, some modest but steady income. And my mom often ranked on the list of top performers for the organization when they posted quarterly. Of course she did. And she relished this, right? And it motivated her more than actual money. So now she's getting a little bit of power and status. And people want status. They want to walk into a room and, you know, be like, everybody wants

[B]

to hear that they're the best at whatever they're doing, right? Even if it's scamming. You're the best scammer ever.

[A]

It's like, thank you so much.

[B]

Yeah, she scammed scam awards.

[A]

45,000 families this year.

[B]

No.

[A]

Yeah, she's the best.

[B]

No.

[A]

Yeah, a lot of them are bankrupt. Some of them are dead.

[B]

Oh, she's amazing.

[A]

She got every last penny until they died. So, like, yeah, I could get that. I could get the allure. So she says, it sent my mom. The scam organization, Charles' sent me and my mom on a free cruise we went when I was in eighth grade. And on it, I tasted my first alcohol, Bought for me by a much older man.

[B]

Ew.

[A]

Okay. I don't know why this isn't here, but nothing else happened. Nothing else bad happened. Just like, she got somebody, an old creeper, a drink, but that's it. That's it. There's no bad story there. But she just said, an old creep bought me a drink. I don't know why she felt like she needed to include that. Eighth grade.

[B]

How old are you in eighth grade?

[A]

Thirteen. That's. Now, listen, I did illegal shit on cruise ships, but. Cause it's international water.

[B]

I was just gonna say, it doesn't matter if you're on a ship, right?

[A]

That's true. I was gambling, though. Yeah, I was gambling, but creepy old.

[B]

Of course you were.

[A]

Yeah, it was so fun. They never checked my id. They let me gamble. I made a lot of money, at least for a 16 year old.

[B]

When I was 16, I grew up around Detroit. And so we would go to Canada all the time. Cause the drinking age in Ontario is 19 and spoil. Like you probably haven't figured this out just from listening for me. Cause I have a white ass name, but I am Asian.

[A]

And I have a white name too. So I'm constantly being like, I'm black, I'm Asian.

[B]

The photo, I'm Asian. I know I sound like I just popped off the Mayflower Elizabeth Adams over here. But I am very Asian. And so when I was 16, I had my other Korean girlfriend's ID who was 19. And because everyone's racist and thinks Asian looks alike, so they just didn't look twice. So I was 19. Yeah, sometimes it helps, you know, you gotta scam the racist. And that's what I was all about

[A]

I've talked about on this podcast. So I had this girl's ID and she had a way bigger nose than I did. And I would just show it to people and flare my nostrils. That shit worked every time.

[B]

Flare your nostrils.

[A]

Sometimes racism's really just. They help.

[B]

Oh my God.

[A]

Like you can't tell black people.

[B]

They're like, wait a minute, this doesn't look like you. Oh, wait, now it does.

[A]

Oh, wait, hold on, hold on.

[B]

Oh, you got those big nose holes. I see you.

[A]

Yeah, checks out. You're black, you're a woman. Big nose hole.

[B]

Nose holes. I think that's what people should call nostrils from now on. Just truly nose holes. That's where it sounds.

[A]

Could be like, it sounds erotic to me.

[B]

I don't know why. I'm really into those.

[A]

Nose holes.

[B]

Nose holes.

[A]

I'm so sorry about this, guys. So the cruise was also where I played my first slot machine and won my first money in gambling. Makes sense. That's what I did on cruises.

[B]

You have a lot in common.

[A]

So when we went to those seminars, especially on the cruise, we were always around these people that I now recognize as Lost Soul.

[B]

Oh, so dramatic.

[A]

Those who got in deep were clearly seeking something. And being a member of the organization felt like belonging to something big and important. Yeah, so that's like the culty aspect of it.

[B]

So culty.

[A]

My dad insists that they made enough off the organization to justify the effort and expense. Which is different from most participants in multi level marketing schemes who spend more than they earn and are continually pressured to buy things to get started or to move up. Which is true. True. Like normally they make buy the products yourself.

[B]

You're gonna change your life. You just need to spend $5,000 first. But then I swear you're gonna change

[A]

your life, like immediately after you write the check and it cashes.

[B]

Then you're gonna be about to be lit. Yeah, you know, but first, pay me.

[A]

Robbery and fraud. So some of the stories of people who later su are kind of heartbreaking. The woman whose husband died after canceling his life insurance to save money at the behest of Givens.

[B]

So that man was like, hey, I got an idea. Why don't you cancel your life insurance policy to save some money? And then he died.

[A]

But here's the thing. That's not bad for the man. That's bad for the woman. I know.

[B]

Poor woman.

[A]

That mean? When he died, she was left holding the bag.

[B]

Probably all his debt too.

[A]

Oh, that's rough. I don't like the scare. I'm gonna say it now. I do like the scam we've been talking about though, which is the scammers who leeched onto the scam.

[B]

Right? I like them, but the mustachioed Floridian.

[A]

Oh, fuck him. Fuck him, Fuck him.

[B]

And his mustache he wrote in on.

[A]

So someone said I fell for it. Non toxic cleaning and no chemicals. My kids got into a spray bottle fight and my oldest got sprayed with a diluted blue diamond from Norwex. The allergic reaction was over the top.

[B]

I'm sorry. My kids got into a spray bottle fight with cleaning supplies.

[A]

So I guess this is like another MLM. So now we're kind of just talking general MLMs. The first one though, is from Gibbons. Okay. But this one, like, so it says my upline had to give me detailed directions on how to find ingredients to share with the doctor. I demanded that the upline. Okay, so upline is supposed to be like someone who's up the chain of years.

[B]

Yeah. So the way that MLMs work is you get into it and then you're incentivized to recruit other people. And that's how pyramid schemes are actually defined by, like the ftc, by if the way that you make money is through recruiting more than through product sales. And so MLMs, like the really bad ones, say you recruit three people and then they recruit three people and then all those three people recruit. So it goes on and on and on until you're at the top of the pyramid and you make commission out of all the inventory that all these salespeople, or they're called, I think, distributors. Distributors are buying from buying. And then you're considered the upline. If you're like you've recruited someone you're the upline, right?

[A]

And they're the downline.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Okay, so that makes perfect sense here. So apparently this is like a chemical free, like whatever kind of product

[B]

says

[A]

why your kids get in a spray bottle fight.

[B]

I mean, lock that shit away. That's like Parenting 101. I'm sorry, we are judging this parenting, but.

[A]

But you know what? I'm not going to judge this parenting because kids are fucking dumb. You kids would be like, bleach fight. What are y' all doing?

[B]

What's this Poison?

[A]

Let's eat it. Literally, like, I remember, I'll never forget, I almost had a heart attack. I think I told my mom about this. I don't know if I did.

[B]

She gonna find out now.

[A]

She gonna find out now. It don't matter. Cause my sister's alive. But I babysat my sister all of her youth. And it's crazy cause I had nannies. And then when my sister was born, they're like, we don't want you to get pregnant. So watch. Your sister affects all this stuff. And so I came into the bedroom and I think I went to like get something out of the oven or something real quick in the kitchen. I come into the bedroom and I think my sister may have been two at the time. And there was a spilled bottle of Advil in front of her and she was licking the coating off of the pillow. I called poison control. I literally freaked the fuck out. And like she hadn't eaten any of them. Thank God. This bitch.

[B]

What up? You know, only a two year old would do this. Children are crazy. I used to work at a preschool when I was in college and truly my job was just to keep all the children from killing themselves. Yeah, that's literally how to do anything.

[A]

Don't let them kill themselves constantly.

[B]

Like, think I'll jump off this, you know, four story balcony. What do you think, mom?

[A]

And you're like, no, right? When I was a kid, we jumped off of our balcony in our house. We moved a couch to the wall so that it would be right underneath where the balcony was. And then we all just jumped off of this like 12, 14 foot balcony. Why? Cause children are dumb. And my mom saw footprints on the wall that were so high up. And she was like, how the fuck are there footprints up there? And I was like, oh, I don't know, mama. You know, ask the cleaning lady child. I don't know. He's gonna find out now. But that's what we were doing. So kids are fucking dumb. So I get this But. But the kids got really, really sick. And when she did the upline and she called the upline, and she was like, what are the chemicals? Cause I need to tell the doctor. They were like, ooh, actually, it's not chemical free. It's actually chemical full.

[B]

Chemical full.

[A]

It's chemical full. So your kid might die. Oh, no. And then another MLM scheme says it nearly caused me to get divorced. So this is Larue. Larue markets their products to customers.

[B]

LuLaRoe or L' Ro Row. LuLaRo.

[A]

LuLaRoe.

[B]

Lu Roro.

[A]

I can't even say that shit.

[B]

Lularoe. This.

[A]

That's how you.

[B]

These are the, like.

[A]

So it's supposed to be like Lululemon, but they Lularo.

[B]

Yeah, shorter, you know, I hate everybody. I hate everybody.

[A]

No, we not Lululemon. We Lularo.

[B]

Well, they're not, like, workout ones. They're like fashion leggings. So they've got crazy prints all over.

[A]

Yeah, they do have crazy prints. I'm like, what am I looking at? Mad hatter pants.

[B]

They're big in the. So they're big in, like, middle America, Midwest, you know?

[A]

Okay. They look like trash. Y' all. Give that up. So they market their products to customers like a garage sale. So you had better buy it when you see it, because if you don' gone before you know it. And it's addictive.

[B]

Addictive.

[A]

And it creates, like, a culture of friends that you're buying them from.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I'm not well off, but I spent an excess of 5,000 to $8,000 over the last three to four years buying shoddy clothing. I bought right into their BS story. That was helping the small business succeed. My first purchase of pair of leggings, they were really soft, and I was hooked. I bought the items, won items, traded, sold. This bitch was on Lulu Larue all the time. It just came up automatically in her search. Like, did you mean Lulu? Yes, girl, you know where I'm going. And she said she searched for her own unicorn skirt for weeks. I spent so much time and money on Lularu, and it caused me to get divorced.

[B]

Ooh, Ooh, honey, I feel like there were also. I don't think the leggings were the problem.

[A]

Honey, if you were a victim of this scam, sweetie, your husband was like, babe, are you gonna make dinner tonight?

[B]

She's like, I got leggings.

[A]

Okay, baby, I'm horny. Can you get off the leggings site? But once. Can we have sex?

[B]

I'm looking for my unicorn skirt. That's crazy, sweetheart. So the thing about Lulu, Lulu Ro is like, okay, so I'm very into MLMs. I think they're very fascinating. I think that it is like a total cult like appeal because they target vulnerable women in particular who are stay at home moms or you know, there's like, they're single, single income family. But like they want to do something to help.

[A]

They need a little thrill up they leg.

[B]

Well, it's not even thrill. They target like the good intentions of women. And so women who want to help their family and then they prey on that and they're like, you can help your family. You can reach financial independence. You know, like, your husband doesn't have to work so hard. You can take care of your kids. You can have a kid.

[A]

There's also a control thing that I think you're bringing up. That's great. Which I forget about that when I lived in Texas, all of the women in my neighborhood, except for my mother, really didn't work.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so that was like always a big brag. Cause all the men would be like, our wives don't work. But then when you don't work, you have way less financial control over what happens in the house. You have allowance, you want a little

[B]

spending money of your own. You know, you don't have to ask your like, you know, working partner.

[A]

You want to be able to leave that nigga whenever you want.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

That's what it's about. You gotta be able to up and leave. You gotta keep your body tight so you can go get you a new man. And you gotta have enough change in the bank so you can leave his ass.

[B]

Truly. So the Lularoe like model is, if you're one of their distributors, they make you buy like a certain amount of inventory, but it's blind inventory, meaning that like you don't get to pick, so you get like a random assortment. And some of the leggings are so ugly, like Cody Google Ugly Lularoe and bring them up. Because some of them are fucking crazy.

[A]

I can believe that.

[B]

And it's really hard to get rid of that stock if it's like really ugly. Some of them are cute. Sure. And those are, are the ones you sell out of. But if you have stock left over from like your ugly leggings that nobody wants to get, you still have to keep getting more in order to like maintain your status, that you reach in somehow.

[A]

So now you're sitting with inventory that won't move.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And you're having to bulk up. And when you're bulking up, you don't know if you're purchasing something that's going to be sellable or if you're purchasing something that's going to also go into that pile of stuff that's not moving.

[B]

Yes. So that it's like such a scam on all these poor women that were just trying to make a living or trying to help their families. Right.

[A]

Oh, my God in heaven. These ugly.

[B]

Right? Like some of them are.

[A]

Now that's how. That one with the teal and the blue, like that's cute. That probably make your booty look fat. Damn, these are some ugly. Like, come on now. What is on those? Hold on.

[B]

Is that a clown one? Go back. Was that clown.

[A]

Was that a clown one? Oh, who want clowns on their ass? We already got men. That's enough. That's too many clowns on my ass right now.

[B]

This is just a. My leggings are just pictures of my ex boyfriend.

[A]

Clowns on my ass.

[B]

So they really. They really do, though. They prey on these poor women. They have all this inventory left over. They've taken out lines of credit in order to afford all of this. And then what happened with Lularoe in particular is there were so many women that were being recruited and like, that's math. You know, you run out of people to recruit after a certain amount of time. And then also the market statue is so flooded with people who sell them. And so now like, you've got a million places to buy them. So you don't buy them from just

[A]

now you have to price your stuff competitively.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Now you gotta undercut other people who are already in the scam with you.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Oh, my gosh.

[B]

So Lularoe actually it like, I think they just laid off like a bunch of factory workers, actually, people who were not involved in the scam. They were just like employees receiving paychecks. And that's really shitty for them. And because they, like, I think they kept getting. I think there was a class action lawsuit against them actually from all these people that were fucked by this pyramid scheme system.

[A]

So now we're going to read off some pyramid schemes, guys.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. This is for your scam knowledge or scam warnings. So we talk about Lularoe, Lulu, La rowe, women's apparel, Roden and fields. Skin care.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Advocare. That's for dieting. Herbalife.

[B]

That's a big one.

[A]

That's for nutrition. That's a big one. Nerium. That's for skincare. Monat that's for hair care.

[B]

Oh, that's the one that had people's hair falling out, right?

[A]

Damn. No, can I just say, like, these names. Monat, Nerium, they all sound like drugs

[B]

to help you get it up.

[A]

Ev don't care. They really do. Because, you know, drugs for, like, women, when their periods get. They're always just, like, women's names, like Julissa and Lauralissa and, you know, like, Jane and June.

[B]

And, like, I think mine is Nikki, actually.

[A]

Right. It's always a woman's name. I just think about being at brunch, and I'm like, oh, my God, y'. All. Don't invite Julissa. You know that he'll drink too much. Okay, listen, listen here. What was mine? There was Juneel. I remember Juneel.

[B]

Cause it's like. That's like, oh, yeah, my Aunt Flo's visiting this month. Like, all the euphemisms you used for describing your lady things, I gotta tell you.

[A]

Take my bestie. Oralissa.

[B]

Oralissa.

[A]

So Monat, hair care and then jeunesse, which is skincare. It works. Which is for fat loss.

[B]

It works.

[A]

This one's gonna hurt, you guys. Doterra. Essential oils.

[B]

Oh, essential oils. Well, okay, so the essential oils one, too, is, like, people are always claiming that they do all these miraculous things. Like, I dabbed a little bit of essential oil on my wrist, and it cured my cancer.

[A]

Like, no, that modern medicine probably did.

[B]

And good vibes. Don't forget about the good vibes.

[A]

I want to start selling, like, something called, like, healthy cocaine.

[B]

A working title. Working title.

[A]

Yeah. I'll get it. I'll get it. Right? But I think I sometimes will, like, huff mint essential oil, and it wakes me up.

[B]

Lacy.

[A]

I'm not huffing it. I just put it on my wrist, and I smell it, and it invigorates me.

[B]

I mean, all these things are, like. They're starting with a thing that is good or helpful, and then they're taking it too far, you know? Like, sure, essential oils are cool. Like, lavender's supposed to calm you and stuff, but.

[A]

But mint. Like, smelling mint really does wake me up a little bit. So I'm just saying it might wake other people up.

[B]

Healthy cocaine.

[A]

You guys, don't steal my idea.

[B]

Don't take this idea. She's gonna trademark this. Healthy cocaine by the hc. Coming at you.

[A]

You're right. I do need a different title. But I'm gonna. I'm working on it. It's in workshops in beta. Yeah. Amway.

[B]

Oh, Amway's a big One.

[A]

Yeah. And they branched out. They got health, they got beauty, they got home care. Like Scamway is out here. Scamway, Scamway.

[B]

I've never even thought of that. That's so funny. Let's play this.

[A]

So just so you guys know, these are things that exist and they are multi level marketing schemes. And even if you like the products, just know that the way that the business is set up it is to con you.

[B]

It's super predatory the way the business models are. And sometimes there are good things like Rodan Fields has like this eyelash serum that's apparently amazing. And like sure, sometimes the products work right, but sometimes I don't.

[A]

And Then there's also 10 shocking facts about multi level marketing schemes. And I'm just going to let you guys know a couple of these because like this is like if this industry was so illegal it would not still be able to exist. Right? You think it would.

[B]

Well, here's the thing. Okay, I'm a, I'm going to tell you something. There is, there are multi level marketing company lobbyists in Congress. And so that is part of the reason why the FTC has such a hard time actually taking these things down. They start with. So one of the ones you listed, Nerium, I think was that was a skincare company, I think. Or was it. Well one of them on the list was, was taken down by the FTC because they made really like ridiculous claims that it cured like Alzheimer's and stuff like that. And so that's where you can get it if you're making false claims like that that like medically are disproven. And so I think the FTC is

[A]

trying to take down.

[B]

This is me just conjecture here, so don't quote me. I don't know anything about government either.

[A]

But no one does.

[B]

No one does.

[A]

It's a scam.

[B]

Government is totally a scam, you guys. But they can get them on stuff like that. But like since there are lobbyists and there are people in Congress, there's like one congressman that used to be like the head of. He like used to work for one of those big companies for a long time for like 10 years or something like that. And so like it's corrupt. Our government is corrupt and they're supporting these companies which is why they're not getting shut down even though they're super predatory.

[A]

Right. And that makes sense because there's so many things like, I mean we always talk about the NRA which is one of the biggest scammiest organizations ever. And they have all of our government in their pockets and that's why we gotta worry about getting shot when we go to see a movie, you know. So it's just really kind of fudged. So there's a few. So there are legal loopholes that allow these scams to exist. And basically, MLM is almost identical to a pyramid scheme. But the emphasis on selling products rather than recruiting members keeps it from being classified as a pyramid scheme. Also, MLMs are unsustainable, which makes sense because like you were saying before, even with like Lulu Larue, like once you have once, it's too lulu. Once. Once it's saturated, it's hard to maintain. Amway has almost a hilarious rate of failure. The Amway failure rate stands at 99%.

[B]

Oh no.

[A]

There is a 1% chance that you will go into Amway.

[B]

You're. You have better odds just gambling, right?

[A]

Just get buy tickets every week. Shit.

[B]

Like just go to just go.

[A]

Odds of Amway are bad. Also. MLNs like we talked about a lot target the most vulnerable people in society. So sorry about that. But guys, that's the despo meter. Like when you are thinking something's a little shifty, gauge yourself, take a moment with yourself and be like, am I desperate? Do I need money? Do I need attention? Do I need validation? Like really think about yourself and how you feel in that moment before you say yes to anything that gives you pause. Because it does always give us a little pause. Hell, I've participated in some things that I was like, this could be a scam or this could be a great opportunity. And sometimes it turns out to be a great opportunity. So. So it's like, maybe I'll roll the dice.

[B]

I feel like I'm naturally fairly suspicious person, but occasionally I'll do something and I'll be like. There was one time that I agreed to do this short film with someone that I had just met in one of my improv classes and they were filming at her parents house in Newport and I agreed to go and film there. And then I realized I don't know any of these people. People. What did I just agree to do? It turned out it was great. They're still my great friends today. But before I went I was like, am I gonna get murdered? Like I don't even know these people.

[A]

But also Newport.

[B]

I know gonna go. I know, but I don't know. It could have been not Newport is what I'm saying though. Like I trusted that this was like legit.

[A]

Yeah, I've talked about that. I've done jobs where as an actor, sometimes you get a freelance job offer. And like, I was like, I could get murdered today. And I was like, or I got murdered.

[B]

You just show up somewhere expecting, you

[A]

know, I'm dropping pins to all my friends. You know what I mean? Yeah. And then here's a little tip on how to avoid multi level marketing scams. So if someone says the word toxins and can't name anything specific, they are trying to swindle you.

[B]

Yeah. You should try this new product. It just gets rid of all your toxins.

[A]

Just gets rid of which ones? Which ones?

[B]

All of them. The bad ones.

[A]

Oh, okay. But like, which specific bad ones?

[B]

You know, like the ones that make you toxic. Toxic. The toxins.

[A]

In what way?

[B]

We're not looking at tox outs, we're looking at toxins, you know, so just gets rid of them. Just melts right off.

[A]

No, listen to my partner. She's absolutely right. Like, if the taste of your lips I want to ride. You're toxic. You know what I mean? The taste of the boys from paradise. That's what we're getting rid of. That's a Britney Spears song.

[B]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. She got that from me. She got that from me.

[A]

Yeah, she got it from us. And honestly, she was a part of our organization. Advertisement and then she was call this number inspired to write Toxic. So there you go. If you have to invest money money to join, don't.

[B]

That's like for anything. I feel like if they're asking you for money, that was like the first thing, like, I learned when I got into this industry too, as like a actress model. Like, you never should have to pay upfront to do anything. If an agent is asking you to pay them, they scamming you. If a modeling agency. Barbizon. Have you talked about Barbizon ever?

[A]

You need to talk about Barbizon. Yeah, we've glazed over the mall scams, but we will one day just hop in real deep with good old Barbizon paying for those photos.

[B]

They tried all guys with me when I was a teen. When I was little, I was living in the suburbs around Detroit. They tried to recruit me and my mom was like, no, you're not doing that. Sorry.

[A]

Bye.

[B]

Don't talk to my child.

[A]

That is a real scam, Barbizon. All of those where it's like, pay us and then we'll make you a star. And the crazy thing is, is that act, acting and performing in general, there's no blueprint, no so we're all throwing shit at the wall. We've all been scammed a little bit. I've had some horrible fucking headshots with some. Some photographer who once shot Jesse Tyler Ferguson, like, shot me in his New York apartment. Had me looking like old ass Michelle Obama when I was 21. Like, not even like Michelle Obama now. He had me looking like the old Michelle Obama at 21. And they were horrible photos. And I can't use them. They're a joke. I'll post them sometime.

[B]

Please.

[A]

But they were very expensive. And just because he shot Jesse Tyler Ferguson, I thought, like, he was writing that as well. And I can't wait for the people who have shot me to scam people with my photos and be like, look, I shot Lacey Bozo.

[B]

The gift that keeps on giving.

[A]

I can't wait until I'm a part of people's scams. Please tell me if you're running a scam with my name in it. I will be happy for you. I won't sue you. I mean, I might out you, but I won't sue you. But. So it's like in acting, there's always so many scams and you're kind of just throwing shit at a wall and hoping that something sticks. And sometimes it's something that's scamming ends up working out for you. So it's like with Barbizon and shit like that. Like, they'll get people who maybe fell for their scam but then became successful after that because they truly were talented. But then they'll be like, look at this girl. She went through Barbizon.

[B]

We did that. That was no one else. That was us. That was all me. So.

[A]

And also just look it up. If you get an offer that sounds too good to be true, hit a smooth Google.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because that's the thing about people who get scammed. They're going to hop on the Internet and they're going to talk about it.

[B]

So Google anything. And scammer.

[A]

Google. Guys, if you get a weird phone call, Google. Because I promise you, you're probably not the first person that they've done it to.

[B]

Google your friend.

[A]

It's true.

[B]

At least until it becomes sentient.

[A]

Yeah. And betrays you. Yeah. Which it eventually will.

[B]

Google this, Skynet.

[A]

We will all be murdered by technology. Honestly, the way I want to die.

[B]

Yeah. It seems like a good way to

[A]

go when the technology takes over. So. And this is the saddest part of the scammer of the week.

[B]

Ooh.

[A]

So this is when we honor I would never out you for your scams, Liz.

[B]

Just know they're happening.

[A]

They are. They are. They're pertinent, and they're. They're fantastic. They're percolating. But this is where we honor a charlatan who we really just feel is worthy of our praise. And this week, it's Dontrell Scott.

[B]

Oh, that is a scammer name if I ever heard one.

[A]

And Dontrell Scott has got an iconic catch.

[B]

What is it?

[A]

This is a robbery.

[B]

Oh, is this the person who was wearing, like, the shake and go wig? Yes.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Oh, my gosh.

[A]

A king dressed like a queen. So Dantrel Scott was arrested following a Tuesday afternoon robbery at SunTrust on 13th Avenue. I believe this is in North Carolina, so he also apparently has many wigs and 16 different mugshots. Police say that Scott was believed to have a camouflage bag and a bott of Powerade when he walked into the counter and asked for a withdrawal slip. I love they had Powerade.

[B]

I love the camouflage bag, though, because. Do you think that he. He picked in the bag because he was like, if I wear camouflage, they won't see it?

[A]

I truly don't know. And I love that he's a hydrated king just staying hydrated while he's out here doing robberies.

[B]

I mean, he's got a sprint. You know, he's. He needs those electrolytes, right? Oh, my gosh. This image of all of his wigs. All of his wigs he served. Loving these looks, though. Like, look at his face. He is. He even did his makeup for the blonde wig. Look at that. He's wearing hot pink lipstick for the blonde lady wig because he's, like, doing Caucasian crimes with his blonde lady.

[A]

Right? With his blonde lady wig. So he was like, I'm gonna give y' all Mattel Barbie. Like, I love it.

[B]

Oh, my gosh. This is too good.

[A]

Okay, so then there was a funny joke that I was seeing on Twitter that I love, which was like, if you look at the rows of his 16 mug shots, somebody was like, we have Marina, Selena, Karina, Sabrina, about three Kim's, latoya, and Tina.

[B]

What's that one song? That's like, Sabrina Lashan.

[A]

That's. Oh, that's sprinkling. That's sprinkling. He also has all the crystal Yolanda. He got somebody remixed, and they were like. And Cookie. I met her robbing an ice cream pole. I was like, how many times has

[B]

this person gotten picked up and is still out yet? They're just like, Slap on the wrist, you. Oh, you silly.

[A]

They must be injured.

[B]

Get out of here.

[A]

They're like, get out of here. Yeah, you can keep the wig.

[B]

Well, if he was never violent, then I guess it's just kind of more of a nuisance than anything.

[A]

Well, also, I don't think that he's been armed. I think that people have assumed he's been armed, and he hasn't been armed.

[B]

He's just out there shooting a shot. He's like, hey, give me some money.

[A]

This is a robbery.

[B]

This is robbery.

[A]

You know? And so he reportedly.

[B]

That song.

[A]

So he told the teller that she was pretty.

[B]

Aw.

[A]

So he goes, hey, girl, you are very beautiful. This is a robbery. I don't know if I know how to feel. I'd be like, thank you. Oh, no. Like, how do you receive that? So he left the Powerade bottle on the counter, and now it's being sent for testing. And I'm kind of bummed that he did that. That's sloppy. Like, take the Powerade with you. He probably just got. Cause he was like, that worked. You believed me.

[B]

Just gotta say, you're pretty. This is a robbery.

[A]

So Scott had reportedly rented a room at the Colonial Inn. Upon searching the room, police found a black notebook that said, this is a robbery.

[B]

Well, he wrote it down. Like, he had to memorize his line. He was like, I gotta get this right. Okay, this is robberies.

[A]

No, fuck, fuck, fuck.

[B]

Okay, this is the robbery.

[A]

Fuck. Okay, you are robbed. No, no, no, that's past tense. Oh, God.

[B]

I'll never get this right.

[A]

Or maybe he was sl. It under the counter, because sometimes you don't wanna.

[B]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, the ocean's 11 style. Like, communicate via note.

[A]

So Phoenix City police say that Scott was barking at the wall while they conducted an interview with him before bringing him back to Columbus. So this will happen in Columbus. Excuse me.

[B]

He's barking like a dog.

[A]

They said he was barking at the wall. Okay. I mean, it's like, look, we need to question you.

[B]

Like, that's a lot.

[A]

It would be very difficult to get answers. Like, if you're not snitching, I guess you might as well be barking. Like. Yeah, it's entertaining. If I were a cop, I'd let this man go. He seems so fun.

[B]

He seems stable.

[A]

Definitely not that barking.

[B]

Yeah, fine.

[A]

But also just like someone who has the gumption to just be so crazy.

[B]

I love it. Yeah, truly. It's inspiring. Cause it's like, you know what? We could all be a little more crazy, right?

[A]

We're always trying to hide it. We always show it to people we trust. But what if we just were just barking out here? You know, why not? So the teller said that she did not see a weapon during the robbery, but feared that he had one.

[B]

Sure, but if he didn't have one,

[A]

like, it's not armed robbery. Honestly. I just asked you to give me money. You gave it to me.

[B]

Yeah, he just tried it. She gave it to him.

[A]

He was like, can I have some money in your register? This is a robbery.

[B]

You're very pretty.

[A]

You beautiful. Come here, you sexy bitch. What it cost you so sexy beautiful.

[B]

My comments.

[A]

Give me all the money in your till.

[B]

So sexy beautiful. Robbery, please.

[A]

So a significant amount of money was not reportedly taken during the robbery. So he didn't get away with a lot. That probably also lowered. Lowers the degree of felony that he's not.

[B]

He's not walking out with like a million. He's got, what, like, $15?

[A]

He walked out with like, I need

[B]

some change for laundry.

[A]

So police say that Scott had a small amount of methamphetamine on him at the time of his arrest.

[B]

Oh, this explains very, very much.

[A]

It explains the barking for sure. And Scott has 16 different mug shots. And we saw these mug shots, and they're honestly, like, these wigs, like, they know him at the beauty supply store. Also.

[B]

Some of these are good wigs. These are not just like Halloween store wigs.

[A]

No, they're not Halloween wigs, but I. They're struggle wigs.

[B]

Well, you gotta. You gotta judge them a little. You know, you gotta work with them.

[A]

There's one that he's got a middle part where I'm like. That could probably be. Now, some of them do look synthetic. I would.

[B]

Yeah, they all. They're definitely all synthetic. I don't see any lace, so they're probably not lace fronts.

[A]

Yeah, he not doing frontals, but, you know, you gotta keep cost low. But also, he's giving us different hairstyles.

[B]

He's got different eye colors in some of these too. He's going, like, all out with the disguises.

[A]

Yeah. What's crazy is, is that he looks the same in every photo. Truly. He's in a different wig, wearing a different wig like, wig. He doesn't have one of those faces that you can camouflage. Because some people, you see them and they look different.

[B]

He's got a very strong jawline.

[A]

Yes. Because some people you can see who's somebody who's like a chameleon, who. You can see them. They look completely different all the time.

[B]

Gary Oldman, he looks different in every movie that he's in.

[A]

Truly.

[B]

I'm like, oh, that's Gary Oldman.

[A]

Yeah. I feel like Charlize Theron can pull that off too.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Like, so those people, it's like they can change their weight or change their face a little bit or make it, though. Is it? I feel like I always know Meryl Streep, and she be doing the most. That's Meryl Streep's scam. Is. Is that in most movies where she takes on a character, she also takes on different hair. Sometimes she puts in teeth.

[B]

She looks really different ages all the time, too. Because some movies, I'm like, she looks so good. And some. And I'm like, yeah, because she.

[A]

It's like the makeup, I think a part of the her character process is, like, putting on shit, because I was like, damn, she's such a good actress. And she is. But also there's the smoke and mirrors of, like, false teeth and, like, you know, all the shit that she's doing, so. But looks like the same dude in every photo, but just, like, a wig.

[B]

Please, if you're listening, please Google this, man.

[A]

Don Tro.

[B]

It will make your day, Truly.

[A]

Oh, gosh. All right, Liz, we've come to the conclusion of the show. Where do you want to be found? I never ask people where they can find you, just where you want to be found.

[B]

I want to be found, you know, everywhere. I'm on Instagram. I'm Lizparty. Lizzz Party. I spell it with two Z's. That is a scam. I'm on Twitter, and this is my best scam. My Twitter handle is just Liz. And, you know, you don't need to know how I got that, but I did get that.

[A]

How did you get Liz? Scammed.

[B]

I scammed Twitter for that handle.

[A]

That's crazy.

[B]

I took it from someone. This is real. I took that Twitter handle from someone. Wait, okay, So I knew somebody.

[A]

Did you walk up to them and be like, this is robbery.

[B]

This is robberies.

[A]

You are very pretty.

[B]

That's exciting. What happened?

[A]

Wait, what happened?

[B]

Oh, okay. So I knew somebody who worked for Twitter, and back in the day, this was. I was a, quote, unquote, early adopter. If somebody wasn't using a Twitter account, if it was inactive, no logins or anything, Twitter employees could repurpose them or they could, basically. So I got someone at Twitter to give me that handle because no one had logged in for years.

[A]

Damn, that's smart. I want to snatch handles from people who have been logged in from years.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So suddenly I'm running.

[B]

Um, people are constantly trying to get into my account, though, because I have such a short handle. And so I had to turn on all the, like, you know, six factor authentication things because people are constantly trying to reset my password. And damn, now people trying to scam me after I scam Twitter.

[A]

You know what I mean? But that's a part of the game. It's a part of the game. And, guys, you can always find us, as we always say, if you have any retired scams that you don't mind us laughing about or inspiring people to do to Papa John's Scam Papa John's. This is take from.

[B]

This is scam Papa John's for all they're worth.

[A]

Steal from them. Scam them. They're a bad company by a bad man. Fuck Papa and John both.

[B]

Those.

[A]

Both of them. I'm assuming it's two different people, but you can email those scams into [e-mail]. also, you can follow us @scamgoddesspod on Instagram and Twitter. And you can follow me, Lacy Moseley I V A L A C I divalacy on all platforms. All right. Co congregation stay Scam Goddess. This has been an earwolf production in association with Team Coco. Scam Goddess stars and is hosted by me, Lacey Mosley, AKA Scam Goddess. Our producer is Jessica Cisneros and our audio engineer is Rich Garcia. Research for the show is conducted by Kate Doyle. Stay scheming.