Science Vs: "Dire Wolves! They're Back?" – Detailed Summary

Release Date: May 29, 2025

Introduction

In the episode titled "Dire Wolves! They're Back?" from Science Vs, host Wendy Zuckerman delves into the sensational claim that scientists have resurrected the dire wolf—a species long extinct since the Pleistocene era. The episode critically examines the validity of these claims, explores the scientific processes involved, and debates the ethical and ecological implications of de-extinction efforts.

1. The Resurgence of Dire Wolves: Claims and Reality

Timestamp: [00:00 – 06:07]

Wendy Zuckerman introduces the topic by referencing a promotional video showcasing Remus and Romulus, the purported first dire wolves in over 10,000 years. These creatures, described as "gorgeous little white pups," were genetically engineered by modifying gray wolf DNA—altering 14 specific genes to achieve larger size, lighter coats, and more formidable teeth and jaws.

• Wendy Zuckerman [00:33]: "The pups... were made by taking the DNA of a gray wolf and then tweaking 14 genes in it to make them bigger, give them lighter coats, have larger teeth and jaws than a gray wolf would."

The media reaction was intense, with headlines celebrating the "return" of the dire wolf—some even featuring them on the cover of Time magazine. However, the episode questions the authenticity of these claims:

• Wendy Zuckerman [00:43]: "But is that right? Did scientists really bring back the direwolf? What exactly is going on here?"

2. The Colossal Company's Role in De-Extinction

Timestamp: [06:12 – 11:02]

The discussion shifts to Colossal, the biotech startup spearheading the dire wolf revival project. Co-host Sean Ramaswaran and journalist DT Max provide insights into the company's operations and aspirations.

• Sean Ramaswaran [06:07]: "It will behave like a dire wolf, and it is a dire wolf. This is insane."

DT Max expresses skepticism regarding the authenticity of these creatures:

• DT Max [06:18]: "Actually, these are not dire wolves by any definition."

Colossal's ambitious plans extend beyond dire wolves, aiming to revive the woolly mammoth. The company has garnered significant investment—over $400 million—valuing it at more than $10 billion, comparable to biotech giants like Moderna.

• DT Max [10:45]: "They've now raised over $400 million. And their valuation... is over $10 billion."

3. Scientific Processes and Challenges in De-Extinction

Timestamp: [11:02 – 16:28]

The episode delves into the scientific intricacies of bringing back extinct species. DT Max likens the process to hitting a home run—seemingly straightforward but exceptionally challenging.

• DT Max [12:38]: "Genes have multiple functions that we don't always know about... But most people don't hit home runs."

Beth Shapiro, a leading scientist at Colossal, highlights the technical hurdles, including viable ancient DNA extraction and gene editing. The process involves significant genetic alterations, raising concerns about unintended consequences:

• Wendy Zuckerman [18:10]: "These wolves may end up having other kinds of medical problems."

Additionally, the confined living spaces for these genetically modified wolves pose risks of disease and inadequate habitat, contrasting with their historical roaming territories of 50 to 1,000 square miles.

4. Ethical Concerns Surrounding De-Extinction

Timestamp: [17:33 – 23:03]

Ethicist Dr. Robert Klitzman weighs in on the moral dilemmas of de-extinction. He raises issues related to animal welfare, the motives behind such projects, and the potential ecological impacts.

• Wendy Zuckerman [17:24]: "It does leave you a little bit blue."

One significant concern is the potential suffering of other animals involved in the process, such as elephants necessary for cloning woolly mammoths. The ethical implications extend to the well-being of the revived species living in unnatural, confined environments.

• Wendy Zuckerman [18:10]: "Genes have multiple effects... So for instance, five of the genes... would create deafness and blindness in the dire wolf."

Moreover, the lack of regulatory frameworks exacerbates these ethical issues, as current guidelines are insufficient to govern such unprecedented scientific endeavors.

5. Potential Benefits vs. Risks

Timestamp: [23:03 – 26:45]

While the episode primarily highlights the risks and ethical concerns, it also acknowledges potential benefits. Advancements in biomedical technology, improved techniques for fighting diseases, and possible ecological restoration are cited as positive outcomes of de-extinction research.

• Sean Ramaswaran [23:34]: "There's apparently some potential there."

However, Dr. Klitzman emphasizes that without transparent, publicly funded research, the true benefits remain questionable and possibly overshadowed by the pursuit of profit.

• Wendy Zuckerman [23:34]: "Is it to help nature or is it to raise more money?"

The discussion underscores the necessity of prioritizing conservation and protection of existing endangered species over the costly and uncertain venture of de-extinction.

6. Regulatory Landscape and Future Implications

Timestamp: [21:30 – 25:47]

The absence of comprehensive regulations for de-extinction projects poses significant challenges. Historical attempts, such as the brief resurrection of a goat in the Pyrenees, revealed the inadequacies of existing guidelines.

• Wendy Zuckerman [21:30]: "There are no regulations and that could create problems."

President Trump's Secretary of the Interior, Doug Borgum, controversially endorsed Colossal's efforts, suggesting that de-extinction could negate the need for traditional conservation measures.

• Wendy Zuckerman [22:11]: "If we're going to be in anguish about, about, about losing a species... let's figure out a way to get them off."

Dr. Klitzman counters this viewpoint by advocating for robust conservation strategies as a more ethical and effective means of protecting biodiversity.

Conclusion

The "Dire Wolves! They're Back?" episode of Science Vs offers a comprehensive exploration of the ambitious and contentious field of de-extinction. Through expert interviews and critical analysis, the show highlights the scientific breakthroughs, ethical quandaries, and regulatory voids surrounding efforts to revive extinct species. While the allure of bringing back creatures like the dire wolf and woolly mammoth captivates the public imagination, the episode underscores the profound responsibilities and potential repercussions inherent in such endeavors.

Notable Quotes

• Wendy Zuckerman [00:43]: "But is that right? Did scientists really bring back the direwolf?"
• DT Max [06:18]: "Actually, these are not dire wolves by any definition."
• Wendy Zuckerman [12:38]: "Genes have multiple functions that we don't always know about."
• Wendy Zuckerman [17:24]: "It does leave you a little bit blue."
• Wendy Zuckerman [23:34]: "Is it to help nature or is it to raise more money?"
• Wendy Zuckerman [21:30]: "There are no regulations and that could create problems."

This episode serves as a thought-provoking examination of the intersection between cutting-edge science and ethical responsibility, urging listeners to contemplate the true cost and value of reviving our planet's lost inhabitants.