Highway Teardown Tour | 8. Baltimore, MD

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Big Dig — Highway Teardown Tour | 8. Baltimore, MD

Main Theme & Purpose

In this episode of “The Big Dig,” host Ian Coss travels to Baltimore to visit the site of the Francis Scott Key Bridge, which tragically collapsed in March 2024. While other stops on the Highway Teardown Tour spotlight communities reclaiming space from highways, Baltimore faces the opposite dilemma: a city and region urgently seeking to replace a lost highway link—both for economic survival and social connection. The episode delves into the bridge’s collapse, its lingering impact on local life, industry, and community identity, and the debate over whether reconstruction should emphasize speed, inclusivity, or a vision for Baltimore’s future.

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Key Discussions and Insights

1. The Night the Bridge Collapsed (04:42 – 07:25)

• Personal Accounts: Arkia Wade, Turner Station resident, describes being jolted awake by the collapse—a loud boom that “shook the house.” She learned about the disaster from her niece at 3:30 AM and recalls the eerie atmosphere and sense of disbelief.

  • Quote: “It woke me up out of my sleep. I woke up and it was like a loud boom...It shook the house.” (04:42, Arkia Wade)

• Emergency Response: Congressman Johnny Olszewski (“Johnny O”), then the Baltimore County Executive, relives the moment he was called by the fire chief and the surreal, immediate mobilization.

  • Quote: “Did you just call me to say there was a ship that crashed into the bridge and it collapsed?...I was like, oh, crap.” (07:02, Johnny O)

2. The Bridge’s Meaning to Baltimore (08:00 – 09:21)

• Civic and Emotional Importance: The bridge is described as far more than mere infrastructure—it’s a symbol of Baltimore’s identity, a rite of passage, a marker of city pride, and even a cultural icon for local sports teams.
  • Quote: “That bridge meant so much to so many people...it was our identity.” (08:00, Johnny O)
• “It’s everyone’s bridge, but it’s really our bridge.” (08:38, Ian Coss and Johnny O)

3. The Social and Economic Fallout (09:21 – 14:16)

• Loss of Connection: Reporter Wambui Kamau details how the bridge’s absence cut deep social ties; what once was a brief drive became a grueling 45-minute journey. Churches saw dwindling pews, families visited less, and community groups lost volunteers.

  • Quote: “I think losing the bridge really has become something where people have lost connection...It's even a family strain.” (09:40, Wambui Kamau)

• Direct Impact: Arkia Wade shares about losing a Girl Scouts volunteer who could no longer make the trip.

• Industry & Trucking: Johnny O explains:

  • The bridge carried 35,000 cars and thousands of trucks daily.
  • Rerouting meant hazmat-carrying trucks couldn’t use alternative tunnels, causing logistical headaches for freight and commuters.
  • The port and related businesses still “very much being affected,” making the bridge “an economic imperative...for the entire country.” (13:04-14:16, Johnny O)

4. Urgency, Vision, and Constraints for Rebuilding (15:02 – 32:09)

• Rapid Recovery vs. Long-Term Planning:
  • Deputy Secretary of Transportation Samantha Biddle celebrates the swift (11-week) clearance of the shipping channel, but stresses the challenge of launching an entirely new project with no advance plans.
  • Biddle describes the “exhilaration” at reopening shipping, but emphasizes, “the work was just beginning.” (15:27, Biddle)
• Comparisons & Models
  • Architect Klaus Philipsen references international models (Genoa, Italy), advocating for design innovation, modular methods, and meaningful community inclusion in decisions about the new bridge’s form, aesthetics, and social functions (19:38, Klaus Philipsen).

5. Design, Community Input, and the Case for a Broader Vision (22:56 – 35:55)

• The Power of Aesthetics: Ian Coss connects Boston's own "Big Dig" success to public excitement over a visually inspiring bridge, hinting Baltimore might need a similarly unifying vision.

  • Quote: “Sometimes the aesthetics can really matter to the politics.” (22:36, Ian Coss)

• Future-Proofing: Klaus urges for a pedestrian and bike path, arguing, "we need to look for the future...we should build a bike/pedestrian path over the bridge," referencing how future transportation needs will change. (24:35 – 25:38, Klaus Philipsen)

• Environmental Review Constraints:

  • Biddle: Including new elements like bike/pedestrian access would have triggered a costly, years-long environmental impact statement, as opposed to the rapid “categorical exclusion” process secured for an “in-kind replacement.”
    • Quote: “Adding another design element...would have easily added two or more years just to the planning phase of the project. So...speed was the choice.” (27:41 – 28:34, Biddle)
  • Klaus questions why some design upgrades were permitted under “categorical exclusion” while others (walkway) were not.

• Equity Concerns: Wambui Kamau relays how advocates like the late Samuel Jordan hoped for a bridge that would better connect low-income, car-less communities (Cherry Hill), stressing the missed opportunity for transformative change. (30:37-31:47, Wambui Kamau)

6. Balancing Speed, Function, and Equity (35:02 – 41:26)

• Community Realities/Fears of Delay: Arkia Wade voices the practical, everyday need for a functional bridge: “People want the bridge back up.” (35:20 – 35:44, Arkia Wade)
• Funding and Politics:
  • Johnny O warns federal funding could be threatened by political maneuvering, stressing the importance of sticking closely to approved plans and building trust in project stewardship. (36:09 – 38:34, Johnny O)
• Costs Beyond Dollars: Wambui Kamau reminds listeners that the “greatest cost is the six people who lost their lives,” but also ongoing costs—like increased pollution and road wear—borne disproportionately by local communities. (40:02–41:26, Wambui Kamau)
  • “There is also that cost, the health cost of these communities that are now breathing, you know, diesel engine trucks that they, they weren't before.” (40:31, Kamau)

7. Looking Ahead: Hopes, Losses & Legacy (41:35 – End)

• Personal Moments: Arkia says she’ll visit her lost Girl Scout volunteer as soon as the bridge reopens, underlining the restoration of both practical connection and lost relationships.
• Vision for “The New Key Bridge”: The episode closes with a poignant moment—a child’s crayon drawing imagining “the new Key Bridge,” a symbol of hope for Baltimore’s future. (42:27)

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Notable Quotes & Moments (With Timestamps)

• “It’s like a bridge to nowhere and from nowhere because it’s not connected to anything on either side...It’s uncanny.” (01:56, Ian Coss)
• “That bridge meant so much to so many people...It was our identity.” (08:00, Johnny O)
• “So for me...my Girl Scout lost our older adult volunteer. And...she hasn’t been back in two years to the troop because of that.” (11:06, Arkia Wade)
• “We are designing this in the seam between future and past...we should build a bike/pedestrian pass over the bridge.” (24:44–25:38, Klaus Philipsen)
• “The bridge is also a ferment that could move our land areas...and our communities on both sides further along than they are.” (32:09, Klaus Philipsen)
• “Whenever I talk to people about, ‘what do you want to see up?’…I just hear people say that they want something that’s safe, something that’s not ugly, and something that Baltimore can once again be proud of.” (41:09, Wambui Kamau)

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Important Segment Timestamps

• Bridge Collapse Survivor Accounts: 04:42 – 07:25
• Bridge’s Significance to Baltimore: 08:00 – 09:21
• Economic & Social Fallout: 09:21 – 14:16
• Future Plans & Design Debate: 15:02 – 35:55
• Speed vs. Vision Tension: 27:41 – 31:47
• Equity and Environmental Concerns: 30:37 – 33:44
• Federal Politics and Funding: 36:09 – 38:34
• Personal Reflections, Final Thoughts: 41:35 – end

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Summary Takeaways

• The loss of the Key Bridge shattered more than commutes—it wounded Baltimore’s sense of connection and identity.
• Rebuilding is urgent but fraught: Should the city prioritize speed and economic necessity, or seize this rare moment for visionary, inclusive infrastructure design that might serve future generations?
• Equity, access, and community voice were raised repeatedly, with sharp reminders of the risks of “business as usual.”
• The debate over whether it’s possible to “move fast and move smart” remains unsettled, but Baltimore’s longing for reconnection—and pride—is clear.

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In Their Own Words:

“People want the bridge back up.” — Arkia Wade (35:44)

“Sometimes the aesthetics can really matter to the politics.” — Ian Coss (22:36)

“Adding [a bike lane]...would have easily added two or more years...So speed was the choice.” — Samantha Biddle (27:54)

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For listeners unfamiliar with the story, this episode offers a gripping look at a city at a crossroads—seeking to recover from disaster, yet wrestling with the enduring question: What do we owe our future as we rebuild after loss?

Transcript

[A]

Support for the Big Dig comes from the Cape Playhouse in Dennis Village. Now playing the Stephen Sondheim musical of fairytale classics into the Woods. Up next, the Tony Award winner for best musical, HairSpray. [e-mail] Support also comes from Boston Ski and Tennis Ski or snowboard inside all summer long on the area's only immersive simulator experience. Ride on the same machine the US Ski Team trains on all year round. A available in the Newton location. Learn more online at Bostonski and tennis.com visiting the site of the Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore is kind of an eerie experience. As you drive along 695, the city's beltway, you start seeing the big orange banners slapped across the highway signs saying the road ahead is closed.

[B]

So you get off at the final

[A]

exit where the traffic cones actually force you off the road. And there you see a memorial, six crosses in the ground wrapped with construction vests honoring the six workers who died on the bridge. Then you follow a bumpy access road down to the waterfront, past more blocked off roads and chain link fencing, until finally you see it. The main span of the bridge is gone, of course. It collapsed into the river in March of 2024 when it was hit by a container ship in the middle of the night. The steel trusses and asphalt were cleared away a while ago. Also gone are the long approach ramps that once led up to the water's edge.

[B]

What's left?

[A]

What you see are these four concrete towers standing in the water, holding up the last remaining piece of the bridge.

[B]

It's hard to describe.

[A]

It's not even a bridge to nowhere. It's like a bridge to nowhere and from nowhere because it's not connected to anything on either side. Just this one isolated piece looming high up over the water. It's uncanny. Not something you would ever see in a normal construction site. But of course, this is not a normal construction site. My name is Ian Koss and from GBH News, this is the big dig for this episode of the Highway Teardown Tour. A very different kind of teardown. In some ways, it's the opposite of many of the stories we're looking at on this tour. It's a city trying to get back a highway it lost. But I actually found within this utterly unique story there are some universal questions. How do we balance the need for urgency and speed with the need to get the project right? And how do we design a new bridge that both anticipates the city's future and serves the city's present? We recorded this conversation almost two years to the day after the bridge collapsed in partnership with WIPR and the Baltimore Museum of Industry.

[B]

So joining me for that conversation, we have Wamboy Kamau, who, who is a reporter with WIPR who's been covering the

[A]

aftermath of the bridge collapse.

[B]

We also have with us Congressman Johnny olchevsky, representing Maryland's 2nd district and formerly the county executive for Baltimore county, including at the time of the bridge collapse, as well as Arkia Wade, who is a board member of the Turner Station Conservation Teams, as well as a leader of the Turner Station Girl Scout Troop 353. Did I get that right? And she's also a resident of Dundalk, which folks like me have to look up on a map, but you all know is an area located right at the end of the Francis Scott Key Bridge. Arkia, I want to start with you. Take me back to that night in March of 2024. When did you realize something had happened?

[C]

Well, it woke me up out of my sleep. I woke up and it was like a loud boom. And I just automatically assumed it was like a transformer or something that happened or whatever. And then probably like, like the kind

[B]

of boom that you feel.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Not just here.

[C]

It shook the house. And probably like not even like 45 minutes after that happened, my niece came in my room and said, auntie Arqueia, the bridge collapsed. And I was like, what are you talking. I mean, it was like 3:30 in the morning. And I'm like, no, the bridge didn't collapse. What are you talking about?

[B]

Go back to sleep.

[D]

Right.

[C]

And she, you know, showed me the picture. And I mean, it was crazy. So at the time, my dad was living in Hampton, Virginia, and he is from Baltimore. He grew up in Turner Station. So we called him in the middle of the night and told him and he was like, what are you talking about? It was just eerie. It really was.

[B]

And did you go out and see it for yourself when the sun came up?

[C]

Not really. I mean, you know, it was a lot going on that day. I actually had a Girl Scout meeting that day.

[B]

That same day.

[C]

That same day. And I ended up having the Girl Scout meeting just because people were just so, like, in a daze. And I was, you know, trying to give some normalcy, but, I mean, they had, you know, blocked things. I mean, you couldn't just like, go to the bridge.

[B]

Congressman, how did you hear?

[E]

So I was serving as Baltimore County Executive, but I was running for the seat that I now have in the United States Congress. And I was actually Supposed to be in Annapolis the morning of the collapse. So I was awoken by multiple calls from my fire chief, Joanne Rund. And at first I picked up and she said, boss, you're not going to believe this. She actually said it was a cruise liner, a ship carrying passengers. Originally was the report that had crashed into the Key Bridge, total collapse. And I think I was in such a daze from just waking up and feeling disoriented. I was like, okay, Chief. I laid back down, and then I opened my eyes and I said, that has to be a dream. So I called my fire chief back

[B]

and I said, did you just call me?

[E]

Did you just call me to say that there was a ship that crashed into the bridge and it collapsed? Yes, sir. And I was like, oh, crap. And it was maybe an hour or so later we were on scene, and in fact, the Francis Khaki Bridge had been struck and it did collapse.

[B]

I'm hoping that the two of you together. Archia. And so everybody tells me that you're called Johnny O.

[E]

That's right.

[B]

Can I call you Johnny, please? Archia and Johnny. There's something just very Baltimore about that. I don't know, Johnny O, but we're going to roll this. I love it. Could you give me a sense of the significance of this bridge, why it matters not just as a. Like, it carries this many cars a day, but for the people who are from that place, like you both?

[E]

Well, I don't think that any one person can do it justice, because that bridge meant so much to so many people, so much so that it's the kind of thing that sports teams would wear on their uniforms. It was such a part of who we were. It was our identity.

[B]

Like the silhouette. You just know it when you see it.

[E]

You just know. And all of Baltimore kind of embraced it. We're eastern Baltimore county folks, so we have a certain swagger about the bridge being ours, but we recognize that this is something shared by the entire Baltimore County.

[B]

It's everyone's bridge, but it's really our bridge.

[E]

That's right.

[B]

Okay, I understand.

[E]

It's an architectural wonder. It was a beautiful bridge, but it was also a place where, at least for me, it was a rite of passage that people, my generation, when we got our driver's licenses, we would cross the bridge. It was one of the things we did. I grew up on the water. I fished under and around the bridge is what we did. We put it on our uniforms. And some of that, for me at least, is tied to the fact that it's such a part of the American story. Right. It's the Francis Scott Key Bridge, named after the author of the Star Spangled Banner.

[B]

Right.

[E]

And so I think there is so much pride, not just in what the bridge means locally, but that bridge helps tell a national story that is so important.

[B]

Yeah. Wamboy, can you speak to now the transportation side of it? Because the bridge is a pretty symbol, but it also serves a purpose. You've been reporting on the aftermath, how it affected the port and how it affected the city.

[D]

What.

[B]

What did it mean to lose that road?

[F]

Yeah. I think that was one of the first things I would hear when I would go out in the community and speak to people was that it was a connection link. Because in that part of town, you're surrounded by water, and you can easily go from, like, Herman's Bakery Shop in Dundalk and cross over to Glen Burnie or even, like, the airport. So I think losing the bridge really has become something that. Where people have lost connection. So I've heard pastors saying that the pews are emptier.

[B]

Wow.

[F]

Because people are now are unwilling to, you know, drive for possibly 45 minutes or more. It's even, I would say, a family strain.

[B]

Yeah.

[F]

Where if somebody lived on one side of the bridge and they came over instead of every Sunday having dinner, now you're seeing them maybe once a month, if that.

[B]

So 45 minutes for what used to be five minutes, 10 minutes, I would

[F]

say 15 or 20 minutes.

[C]

You know, for me personally, my Girl Scout troop, we lost a volunteer because of the key bridge collapse. We had an older lady who lives in Glen Burnie, and she would come do these sewing projects with my Girl Scouts. And when the bridge collapsed, she said, I can't come to the troop anymore because I don't like to take the tunnel. So for me, you know, my Girl Scout lost our older adult volunteer. And, I mean, I visit her, but not as much as I wish I could. And she literally hasn't been back in two years to the troop because of that.

[B]

It's a reminder of how much infrastructure. It actually changes how we see the geography of the place. I was just down at the side of the. Where the bridge was. And yeah, I mean, the other side of the water feels so distant. It's not a place where you would go to church or volunteer with a Girl Scout troop, but that bridge, it actually changes the way the communities are connected. And then again, when it's severed, then it suddenly feels like this vast distance.

[E]

I think that's why it was so painful. It was both the severance and then there was no saying goodbye. It was like immediately those connections were felt and it was childcare, it was health care, it was work. My daughter's school in Southeast Baltimore county lost teachers as a result. So I mean, the impact was real. And those social bonds that I think do and did exist have been. Have been strained as a result of the loss.

[B]

Yeah. When I came to the story, you know, so my background is in. I did this project about the big Dig in Boston which is all about trying to remove a highway from the city. And so one of the questions I had coming in was, well, I don't know, do we really need to rebuild this bridge at all? Can't we just use another bridge? And everyone I talked to is like, oh, no, no, we're definitely going to rebuild the bridge because there's so much tied up in it. But the other thing I would hear about a lot is trucking. That this is a really vital link for the actual the industrial functioning of the city. Is that something you could speak to congressman?

[E]

For sure. So 35,000 passenger cars went over the Key Bridge every single day. That's just passenger cars.

[B]

Okay.

[E]

Thousands and thousands of trucks used the Key Bridge as their primary means to travel up and down the corridor along 95 because both the harbor and Fort McHenry Tunnels were. Which are now being primarily used as the alternative to the bridge, are not allowed to have hazmats. These trucks can no longer use that eastern route. So they're all diverted now to the west side of the Beltway and have to go all the way around the west of Baltimore, up and around to be able to traverse their goods. So that's real impact for the companies here. They're still paying the increased fuel, especially as fuel costs are now significantly rising. That's real time. They're able to do fewer loads. And the traffic, of course, has gotten significantly worse. And we see that both as commuters, but also from a business perspective. We did a great job clearing the channel when the bridge collapsed to make sure that we saved the port of Baltimore. But the port and other related shipping industries are still very much being affected. And so I think having the bridge being rebuilt is really an economic imperative, not just for the Baltimore area, but it's a core shipping corridor for the entire country.

[B]

I think that is a good transition to bring up. We have two more guests with us today to really look at that forward facing piece of what do we do now? So I want to welcome up Deputy Secretary of Transportation, Samantha Biddle, As well as Klaus Philipson, who is the president of ARC Plan, Inc. An architecture and urban design firm in Baltimore and a longtime transportation advocate in the region who has worked on too many projects to mention. So Secretary Biddle. Deputy Secretary Biddle. Samantha.

[C]

Samantha's good.

[B]

Okay, we're on a first name basis here. One of the marvels of this story is that 11 weeks after the bridge collapse, the shipping channel reopened, the wreckage was cleared away. Could you take me to that day and just the mood in the Department of Transportation in your team as you were looking ahead?

[D]

Absolutely. I think that the mood was exhilaration, but we also knew that the work was just beginning on what needed to come after that. This was the. This was a challenge in terms of a structure that wasn't necessarily on our plate for rehabilitation or replacement in the near term. So taking something where we didn't have plans ready to go and figuring out where we were going to head first, that was definitely a challenge. We knew that that sort of endeavor has taken other agencies, on average easily 7 to 10 years to get to the point of really starting that work.

[B]

One thing that struck me in just kind of revisiting the timeline of the story is I was reminded that there was that bridge collapse in Philadelphia on i95, just the year before. There was an oil tanker that caught fire and this bridge collapsed. And I feel like it got a lot of attention nationally. And I think the governor of Pennsylvania got a lot of political hay out of it within a matter of days getting the bridge functioning again. And it was sort of this rallying cry of, oh, ye. Like, when it's a crisis, we can really come together and we can put all the complexity aside. We can do it. But this is not that

[D]

marine construction's a little bit different. We want to give our partners to the north all of the credit for the work that they did quickly. But there's not a really great analog for the work that we have ahead of us and even for the accomplishments that we've made in the past two years. But since certainly we have great networks, we have great teams, we are talking to all those other bridge owners, we are talking to those who have faced these things in times of tragedy. And we're talking to the bridge owners who are just working through some of the more standard, rudimentary jobs that are still mega projects in themselves, and they all have their own story.

[B]

Yeah. So, Klaus, you're observing this from outside government. As the conversation around this new bridge starts to take shape. What's your response? What are you seeing and how are you reacting?

[G]

Well, first, the congressman said a moment ago that this is an architectural wonder. And as an architect, I like to hear that because it's a landmark, it's something special. It carries in our collective regional memory. The new bridge has to do this again. The question that I had immediately, and I started contacting mdot, like the months in the next month in April, about how do you go about this? And then I started looking at where else did they build something real fast. And then it came up with Genoa in Italy, which, you know, is a bridge that is on land, but it has about the same length. And it fell down in a comparably dramatic event that cost 45 lives in that case. And they built it back in 18 months. And it was designed by an architect in Genoa, the famous Renzo Piano. He came in and said, well, I help you guys design the bridge. And, you know, they did a lot of modular construction so that the pieces would repeat and that they could do it faster. They never went out for bit. They immediately started with design, and then as soon as they could, construction. And some of this MDOT is doing too. But what I'm looking for now, and have been looking for the whole time, is that the community, the professional community, as well as the local community, would be on eye level, partners in designing this thing. Lighting, landscaping, colors, even how the pylons are shaped. Many, many things that are not as fundamental and they could be informed by a discussion where the community participates and the professional stakeholders. And that is what I was hoping for, and I'm still hoping for. But so far we had one communication and that was about it.

[B]

Samantha, could you speak to how it looks from inside? Because the picture that Klaus just presented sounds really nice, and there are a lot of elements of that that seem very workable. But I imagine there are also practical constraints that you are dealing with.

[D]

Yes, I do live in the world of practical constraint. I do also live in a world of a different engineering and regulatory framework. But I think there's definitely room for community conversation about some of the elements of this project that are going to really redefine the SK the way that so many of the other panelists have talked about today. And that's the process that we've been working through with our team.

[A]

So can the world of grand visions and the world of practical constraints be reconciled in Baltimore? Can we move fast, move smart, and maybe even add a bike lane? That's after the break. Support for the Big Dig comes from revision Energy, an employee owned renewable energy company with over 20 years experience building and servicing solar systems for local homes and businesses. Learn how to revision your [e-mail] support also comes from the law firm of Davis Malm. Immigration laws are complex. From multinational businesses to entrepreneurships, entrepreneurs with families, their attorneys assist in obtaining short and long term immigration benefits. Learn [e-mail].

[B]

If you'll indulge me. One story about the Big Dig. There's a piece of that story I've been thinking of that feels relevant here, which is when Boston was planning the Big Dig, this epic infrastructure project. In the run up to it, the most controversial piece of the whole thing was a bridge. And there was endless debate about how many on ramps there were going to be and how many lanes and how you connect from this route to that. And it just went on and on to the point that it nearly killed the project. And then the state did a very smart thing.

[A]

In a project with a lot of

[B]

mistakes, it is something very smart, which is that they released a design by this fancy star architect and it did all the things that people want in a bridge. It evoked the local architecture and the history of the city. And it had this elegant cable stayed, you know, layout. And all of a sudden people stopped talking about how much it was going to cost and how many ramps there were and how many lanes there were. And something that I take from that is that sometimes the aesthetics can really matter to the politics. And so I'm wondering, Samantha, for you, but also for others too, like how you are thinking about the visual design of this bridge and putting something out that the public can be inspired by.

[D]

Yeah, absolutely. I think it was a tremendous accomplishment for the project. When we did release some of the first aesthetics and first renderings for the project was probably about a year ago that allowed people to visualize for the first time what it was going to look like. So that's certainly something that gives the community the ability to rally behind. But I think what's so different here is that yes, there's a desire for aesthetics, but there's this desire for reconnection. And I think sometimes the pace of play and the ability to advance to the next stage with certainty that we are doing everything we can to reconnect these communities. I think that that's the balancing act that also enters into the conversation.

[G]

Yeah, that's of course, you know, this binary between function and beauty is something the architects always have to fight because it's not really a binary. I mean, the beauty Works inside the function. And so when we talk about functionality, my view is also that we are designing a bridge that's going to be good for 50 or 70 or 100 years. And in 50, 60, 70 years, even in 10, there is a lot of stuff very different than what we think today. And so my concern is that we are designing this like in the seam between future and past. I believe that we are really entering a different age of transportation with autonomous vehicles and with all kinds of other multimodalities. We need to accommodate these different futures on the land where the bridge lands. It will be very different land use there. You know, these things all are in flux and it will be different what happens on the bridge. And so I proffered from the beginning we should build a bike pedestrian pass over the bridge. You know, think of the Golden Gate Bridge. This is a very popular thing to be on that bridge. We need to look for the future. We need to plan for the future. And in Corpus Christi, in Texas of all places, they built the pathway for pedestrians and bicycles with 10 foot widths. And we should do that too. We should have a viewing point. This is so fantastic to be on that bridge and look into backwards into Baltimore. Just why we love the bridge so much is also that from so many points in Baltimore City you could see the Key Bridge.

[B]

Right.

[D]

And the Corpus Christi analog is a welcome one.

[C]

Right.

[D]

You know, there was a lot accomplished there, but the planning process for that bridge took a dozen plus years. And we were able to secure environmental clearance and environmental approval. The categorical exclusion for this project in the matter of months. And that was a strategic decision that was made in order to expedite the process of getting this project done more quickly by agreeing to an in kind replacement. The same number of liens just with updated design standards.

[B]

Could we hold on that for a second? Actually, can you explain what a categorical exclusion is for the non infrastructure? I mean, maybe we're all infrastructure nerds here tonight, but explain what that is, the opportunities that opens and the constraints it places.

[D]

Absolutely. So when taking on a major transportation project such as a bridge replacement, you have to look at what the environmental clearance process, when you're going to be using federal funds, is going to look like. It's all established through nepa.

[B]

So National Environmental Policy Act.

[D]

Thank you so much for the listeners at home and for anybody who didn't catch episode two of the Big Dig.

[B]

The Big Dig listeners know all about the National Environmental Policy act should have

[D]

been required listening for everyone here tonight. So when you're looking at a project you have to take on, what's the estimated impact going to be to communities? What's the estimated impact going to be to the natural cultural resources associated with the project? And so in this case, the opportunity presented to us was to move quickly to be ready to move into the design phase of the project, to then get to the construction phase of the project as quickly as possible. We had to look at do you want to take on major design changes? Do you want to consider how many lanes are going to be on this bridge? Do you want to consider if you are going to be adding an element such as a pedestrian and bicycle connection? And while that is a consideration that we take when we are looking at all of the major bridge projects we do, in this case, adding on another design element such as that would have taken us out of the eligibility of pursuing a categorical exclusion or a CAT X and would have pushed us to a completely different environmental process through likely an environmental impact statement, one that is worthy but thorough and could have easily added two or more years just to the planning phase of the project. So while I understand the desire for that multimodal connectivity, I think there's a tremendous degree of value there. In this case, we didn't have a bridge in place that was going to continue to carry people from one side of the shore to the other while we worked through the planning and design process. So speed was the choice when it came to the environmental clearance process.

[G]

Yeah, I could push back a little bit on this. You know, that's why we're here. Speed is certainly. I fully agree. I think it could be faster. I don't know why we lost two years in the original timeline. The contractor would have done a firm price by now and they would know exactly what the price is and all of that. But the categorical exclusion, you know, the bridge is 50, almost 50ft higher than the old one. It is 20ft wider than the old one. It is 200ft or 250ft offset to the side from the old one. If all of that is possible within the categorical exclusion, I would think that a 10 foot walkway or some compromises on the shoulders or whatever it would take should also not be off the table from the beginning on. But you know, that's just my opinion on that.

[D]

Is this where we call out the Federal Highway Representative that you have waiting in the wings?

[B]

Yeah, who's going to mediate here? But seriously, I mean, these are questions that get settled by the Federal Highway Administration and you can make your case Right.

[D]

And we had a representative from the Federal Highway Administration who was literally positioned with us at the Unified Command from day one working with us.

[B]

And that representative explicitly said, if you include a pedestrian or bike facility, then it will have to go through a separate environmental impact statement. And was that really what closed the door on that for you?

[D]

I think there's, you know, I don't want to speak for all of the decision makers in the process, but I think asking communities to wait two years more to really even dive into the process, you know, we would not be able to keep the critical path where we are right now.

[B]

Yeah. Womboya, I know you've been reporting in communities and talking to the advocates around this project. Can you. What are you hearing?

[F]

I understand the speed that the governor and others want to move forward with, but in addition to what Klaus was saying, I think there are people who were willing to wait because they saw this as a once in a lifetime sort of opportunity. And, and I'm thinking about Samuel Jordan, who passed away, but he was a transit equity advocate. And one of the things that he was fighting for was for the people who lived in the lower income communities. When we think of Cherry Hill, and these are people who live in neighborhoods where the median income is about $33,000 a year. So for someone making that amount of money, a car is unaffordable. But. So they were really hoping that this bridge, if it had pedestrian access, it would be somewhere that they could bike to work or even just have public transport where they could go from home to work, and it would be able to uplift people in those communities.

[B]

I mean, it seems like to me to try and kind of distill some of the themes. The fundamental question here is do we focus on rebuilding it as quickly as possible, exactly what we had before, or do we take this as a once in a lifetime, once in several lifetimes, maybe opportunity to rethink what that bridge

[G]

to which Obama would say, you can walk and chew gum at the same time, so this needs to be done concurrently. This is a several year long process. And now they're driving pylons, where the foundations for the pylons. So there is no reason why you can't at the same time talk about how the bridge deck, how the bridge railing, how the pylons, what the paint colors are, how maybe we have a lighting scheme that is evoking of Francis Key. And there are lots of opportunities. And I wanted to also, when the equity theme comes up, you know, both sides of the bridge are landing in areas that are disadvantaged areas, disinvested communities from Turner Station on one side to, you know, the Baltimore Highlands area on the other. And these land areas, they will look different in 50 years if we are doing the right thing. So the bridge is also a ferment that could move our land areas and our communities on both sides further along than they are. And a lot of this is marshy land on the west side. So it's a recreational opportunity. And there's Fort Howard that we don't know what it's going to be in the future. There is Trade Point Atlantic, which is going gangbusters, but we don't know exactly, you know, where that's going to take us.

[B]

For folks listening later who are not in Baltimore, Trade Point Atlantic is like an Amazon fulfillment center.

[E]

So much more than that.

[B]

Okay. So much more than that. Okay, give us the quick gloss on

[E]

Tradepoint Atlantic helped build parts of the Big Dig and is an important legacy here. Has been replaced by Tradepoint Atlantic. It's a multimodal rail, highway seaport facility that has everything from manufacturing, shipping, logistics. We're now building a multi billion dollar port, the first private port I think in the country's history and certainly in my lifetime. And so there are 10,000 jobs already on site, thousands more coming every day. We have a new park that I put there when I was county executive. It is, it is a site that has transformed what was. We've cleaned up some environmental damage. So it's a lot more than an Amazon fulfillment center.

[B]

Yeah, okay, sorry.

[G]

It's 4,000 acres.

[B]

Yeah. And I think to Juan Boy's point earlier about access, I mean, I spoke with a cycling advocate in preparation for this from a group named Bikemore who is telling me that you see people on e scooters on the side of 695 trying to get to Trade Point Atlantic because that is the only way they can get to work. So I mean, that seems to be part of the knot here of how to think about this bridge and what trade offs are worth it.

[F]

Yeah. And possibly the best person to speak to that would be you, Arquea, because you're in that pain point of having to decide when you'll go to see the doctor because you don't want to go at 3:00 clock when traffic is backed up and there's potholes and whatnot. So what are your thoughts?

[C]

Well, the people that I talk to, they want the ridge back up. I mean, so I do understand, I mean, Klaus has helped me understand like some of the aesthetic Things that we could do or environmental friendly things we could do or recreation things that I never even really thought about. But I think delaying it, if that added on another two years, I think you're going to lose some people.

[G]

Nobody wants to delay it.

[C]

So, you know, I think, you know, if you have to weigh it, you know, people want the bridge back up.

[G]

Yeah.

[B]

The other big question hanging over all this is the federal funding. Congressman. I'm going to call you Congressman this time. Now, I got real serious a couple

[E]

of billion dollars in your title changes

[B]

directly relevant to your current position. But are you worried that the federal funding for this will get pulled?

[E]

Well, I'm glad to hear that on the ground things are going well because I take the threats from the President of the United States to the governor to the state, to members of this congressional delegation to pull back funding very seriously. The good news is it is clear and established law, 100% funding that the United States government will reimburse the state for. But this is also why I take the threat so seriously, because I've seen this president take back money that was already approved into law, particularly from Democratic led states for things like energy projects. There was supposed to be an offshore wind project at Atlantic that millions of dollars were canceled, I think illegally by President Trump, because at the end of the day, if we can't be there for each other, what are we doing? And sort of the pitches in your time of crisis, whether it's an earthquake or a fire or a flood or a bridge collapse, the federal government has always been there. And so I've gotten overwhelming support. I know that our, our Senators Van Hollen and also Brooks are doing the same in the Senate. I feel very confident that funding will stay, but it's also why I've pushed so hard against the rescissions and have fought to put language in some of these budget attempts by this administration. Because once that contract is broken, it's hard to have any confidence on any of these projects moving forward.

[B]

Yeah. Is that part of the hesitancy around tweaking the design or adding things like pedestrian access is any opening like that could become a crack that you drive a wedge into and it kills the whole thing.

[E]

I will let the secretary speak for this state, but for me, sure, any opportunity to create a division to second guess why we're funding 100% or 90% of the project is something we should be, I think, very cognizant of. And so from my perch, yeah, anything we can do to make sure that we are giving confidence to My colleagues in Congress, to this administration, that we are building it as quickly as possible and on or under budget. I think that only helps our cause.

[B]

I want to ask you, Samantha, since you are in the hot seat in the Department of Transportation, when do you think we will have a new bridge?

[D]

Wow. That's the billion dollar question if I've ever heard it. Yeah, well, I'm not sending out the invitations to the ribbon cutting just yet. There's obviously a lot to do. But I think, you know, you had the opportunity to head down to Fort Armistead and take a look at the work that's happening out there in the river. So, you know, we completed the demos.

[B]

Hear the pounding.

[D]

Hear the pounding. I think that's an 800 kilojoule hammer that we've got, you know, getting those piles into the river. And it's really exciting because it didn't happen by accident. And all of the work that needed to happen just to get to the point of each of those piles, like heading into the river, it required the geotechnical analysis, the scour analysis, the test pile program, which we completed earlier this year, the demolition of all of the landside components that we started last summer and that we finished up earlier in January ahead of schedule. So those are all the things that are happening or are going to continue to happen. But that, but we're in this period of kind of aggressive mobilization and we'll be working with our contractor to hone in on that final cost and schedule notice.

[A]

You did not give a date?

[D]

I did not.

[B]

Well, place.

[F]

Just as we were talking about cost, there are so many costs to this. The greatest cost is the six people who lost their lives. And then from the community side, of course, there's the cost that people like Archaea are going through in terms of the air quality, because there are these trucks that are still. They're not supposed to go through the local roads. But sometimes when the truck drivers are in a crunch and they want to deliver what you just ordered off of Amazon, they go to these local roads and sometimes they, they tear up the, the roundabouts or the traffic lights. So there is also that cost, the health cost of these communities that are now breathing, you know, diesel engine trucks that they, that they weren't before. So I just, I just wanted to make sure people are also thinking that the cost is not just the $5.2 billion or however much more it may rise. But, yeah, I think people are just so excited for. Whenever I talk to people about, what do you want to see up I haven't heard people say, you know, being as specific as Klaus was of whether it'll be the O's colors or the ravens colors for the lighting. I just hear people say that they want something that's safe, something that's not ugly, and something that Baltimore can once again be proud of.

[E]

Yeah, some solid LEDs. We can do all of it. But that's what. What else I want.

[B]

I want to end with just a final personal question to you, Arkia. When the new bridge is open, because I think it's when, not if. What's the first thing you're going to do? Where are you going to go?

[C]

Oh, that's a good question.

[B]

Or who are you going to see?

[C]

Maybe go see my volunteer in Glen Burney.

[B]

Thank you so much for doing this and thank you all for coming out. So give another hand to our panelists.

[A]

After the conversation. Samantha Biddle's young daughter found me in the crowd to bring me her own hand drawn sketch of a bridge design. It has majestic cables fanning out like the sails on a ship. In the foreground are some actual sailboats. In the background, you can see the skyline of Baltimore. Over it, she wrote the Key Bridge. Then she went back and added in one more word in small letters so it said the new Key Bridge.

[B]

Coming up on the Highway Teardown Tour,

[A]

we put Philadelphia on the couch and ask why. When it comes to highways and so much else, the city always feels like the underdog. Special thanks to our partners at wypr, David Ballew, Sam Sessa, Matt Bush, Wambui Kamau and Danielle Irby. Thanks also to the staff of the Baltimore Museum of Industry, where you can now see a special exhibit all about the original Francis Scott Key Bridge. And if you want to see some images and video of what the bridge looks like now, follow me on Instagram. I'm Iancoss.

[B]

The Highway Teardown Tour is produced by

[A]

Fiona Boyd and myself, Ian Coss, with support from Isabel Hibbert. Our editor is Lacey Roberts. The executive producer is Devin Maverick Robbins. The artwork is by Bill Miller. The Big Dig is a production of GBH News and distributed by prx. I'll see you in Phil. Hey, I want to make sure that you know this series you're listening to right now is part of an ongoing feed telling stories from the past to help us understand our present. Our first season is all about infrastructure. The second season is about gambling. And we've got more seasons planned. So if you want to stay on top of what the team and I are doing, go ahead and follow or subscribe to this podcast wherever you listen.

[B]

We've got some really exciting stories coming

[A]

up and I hope you'll stay with us. Thanks

[D]

from PRX.