Podcast Summary: The Big Dig Presents: Catching The Codfather

Episode: What You Need to Know When Buying Fish, with Roger Berkowitz

Host: Ian Coss
Guest: Roger Berkowitz, legendary New England fishmonger and restaurateur
Date: April 1, 2026

Overview

This bonus episode shifts from the high-stakes drama of “Catching The Codfather” to the daily choices of seafood consumers. Ian Coss sits down with Roger Berkowitz, the iconic mind behind Legal Sea Foods and now Rogers Fish Co., to unpack the complexities of buying, cooking, and thinking about fish. Together, they explore how American tastes have evolved, the nuances of sourcing seafood, sustainability, and tips for home cooks—all with a blend of witty anecdotes and practical guidance.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Roger Berkowitz’s Origins in the Fish Business

• Family Legacy: Roger describes growing up in his family's fish market, Legal Sea Foods, starting work around age 10.
  "If we were going to see [my father], we really had to see him at the fish market. And how many 10 or 11 year old kids, you know, get to wait on people?" (03:39)
• Meeting Julia Child: Roger’s early brush with culinary royalty—Julia Child—who lived nearby and often shopped at their market, shaped his curiosity and approach.

2. The Monkfish Story: Turning “Trash” Fish into Cuisine

• Discovery: Monkfish (then called “monkey tails”) was widely considered undesirable in the US, shipped instead to France for profit. A serendipitous encounter led Roger to offer it at Legal Sea Foods. (05:08)
• Julia Child’s Influence: Julia’s enthusiasm and her showcasing of monkfish on TV catapulted it into the American mainstream.
  "When she said, this is what you should be eating, it just took off overnight." (07:01)
• Insight: "That's what the fish industry needed...someone who could champion the non-traditional, underutilized—the so-called 'trash' fish." (07:01)

3. Why Do Americans Eat So Little Variety in Seafood?

• Stat: 86% of seafood consumption in the US is limited to just 10 species: shrimp, tuna, salmon, cod, etc. (08:37)
• Roger’s Take:
  "One word: bones. In many countries and cultures, they're used to picking around bones...not so much in the United States." (08:59)
• Julia Child Quote (via Ian):
  "If I ever get chicken that's not on a bone, I send it back. The protein always tastes better on the bone." (09:51)

4. Eating Beyond Cod: Underutilized Species & Future Foods

• Sardines & Sea Vegetables: Roger notes rising appreciation for sardines among younger generations and predicts an increase in popularity for "sea vegetables" (kelp/seaweed), inspired by Asian diets. (11:57, 12:53)
• Dogfish: Even as some species like dogfish become more abundant, they don’t catch on because, as Roger bluntly puts it:
  "It doesn't taste good...the name’s off-putting, but I don’t think it tastes good. That’s me personally.” (14:30)

5. Diner’s Glossary: How to Buy Fish Like a Pro

• Fresh vs Frozen:
  • Mechanically frozen fish (in a standard freezer) leads to inferior quality due to cell damage and wateriness.
  • Flash freezing (liquid nitrogen) preserves quality and kills bacteria. This is prevalent in top Japanese fish markets.
  • "One of the things...is just take one of the last two days catch...put it under nitrogen...if you get something that's impeccably fresh and put it under nitrogen...you end up with a better fish." (17:01 - 18:16)
• How to Spot Previously Frozen Fish:
  • "There's sort of a dryness to the flesh...fish that's very fresh has almost a glossy sheen. When you look at fish that's been previously frozen, almost has a matted look to it." (18:43)

🔗 Key Segment: Freshness & Freezing (15:15 - 19:22)

6. Farm Raised vs Wild Fish: Rethinking Assumptions

• History & Progress: Early farmed fish had issues (disease, antibiotics, poor feed), but the industry has improved dramatically.
  • Julia Child advocated for some forms of farmed salmon for East Coasters, long before sustainability was a focus. (21:53)
  • Now, innovations like algae-fed farmed salmon from New Zealand deliver exceptional flavor and nutrition.
  • "If you had farm versus wild and had people blind tasting, they would migrate at least 80 to 90% on the farm." (23:17)
• Marketing Bias: Terms like “wild caught” and “never frozen” are marketed as inherently superior, but quality varies more by producer than by method.
  • Memorable Summary:
    "Those terms on their own do not tell you everything you need to know." (24:45)

7. Local vs Imported Fish

• Sentimental vs Practical Choice:
  • While many prefer “local,” Roger emphasizes places like Iceland have become world leaders in quality and processing.
  • Many New England cod/haddock have migrated to Icelandic waters—practically the same species.
    "Iceland is probably the most sophisticated country in the world for fish handling." (26:41)

8. Sustainability: What Does It Really Mean?

• Definition:
  "It means it’s going to be there as long as we manage the stock appropriately...if a lot of farm fish were fed wild fish, that really isn’t sustainable. You’re robbing Peter to pay Paul." (28:42)
• Portion Sizes: American “steakhouse” portions aren’t the norm; smaller, balanced portions akin to Asian diets are healthier and more sustainable.
  "If you're eating four or five ounces of fish at a time in proportion to carbs and vegetables...that's really a healthier diet." (29:42)
• Role of Consumers:
  "If what we want is a big honkin fillet of cod and salmon and that's all we want, that's what the industry is going to try and serve...But that's when it's really not sustainable." (30:41)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On American Fish Preferences:
  "Americans really thought about seafood: now, you came from an ethnic background...you were already adept at maneuvering around bones, but not so much if you grew up in America in the 50s, 60s, and 70s." (09:04)

• On Underappreciated Fish:
  "We need more Julia Childs. She could push us in a good direction." (31:59)

• On the Power of Branding:
  "You see more and more as the waters heat up a little bit more...but I don't think [dogfish] tastes good." (15:15)

🕑 Segment Timestamps:

• Roger’s family background & Julia Child stories: 03:39 – 07:03
• Monkfish revolution / power of celebrity chef: 04:15 – 07:01
• U.S. fish habits / bones & taste: 08:37 – 09:51
• Sardines & sea vegetables as future foods: 11:57 – 12:53
• Expert tips: Fresh vs Frozen: 15:34 – 19:22
• Farm vs Wild Salmon: 20:41 – 24:45
• Local vs Imported: 25:09 – 26:58
• Sustainability & consumer influence: 28:25 – 31:59
• Secret to perfect fish & chips: 32:08 – 33:21

Fishmonger Secrets: Cooking & Sourcing Tips

• Spotting Good Fish: Look for glossy sheen, freshness, and ask about catch dates—not just labels.
• Farm vs Wild Salmon: Don’t dismiss farmed salmon; seek out producers with top nutrition and feed practices (e.g., algae-fed New Zealand king salmon).
• Frozen Can Be Good: Flash-freezing preserves flavor and quality—mechanically frozen fish is usually less desirable.
• Fish & Chips:
  • "A little bit of buttermilk...then a dried flour batter...I like it just a thin coating of breading on it because I want to taste the fish." (32:08)

Conclusion

This episode demystifies the seafood counter—encouraging listeners to look past glossy "wild" and "fresh" labels and pay attention to sourcing, handling, and even their own eating habits. Roger Berkowitz’s advice—drawn from a lifetime in seafood—urges Americans to eat more adventurously, support sustainable practices, and enjoy the whole bounty of the ocean, not just the “big names.”

Final note: "We are sort of entering a period where we're adjusting portion sizes in a way that's healthier." (30:41)

Further Listening

For more on the drama, politics, and personalities shaping New England’s fisheries, check out the full “Catching The Codfather” series and previous Big Dig seasons.