Scrolling 2 Death — "A Look Back at 2024"

Host: Nicki Petrossi
Guest: Dr. Alison Yeung (Family Physician, Ontario, Canada)
Date: January 2, 2025

Episode Overview

In this reflective New Year episode, host Nicki Petrossi reconnects with family physician Dr. Alison Yeung to revisit the impactful events and trends in 2024 regarding teen mental health, technology, and social media. Their conversation highlights policy shifts, school practices, media influences, research controversies, and actionable resolutions for families as they navigate the digital landscape in 2025.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Global Trends: School Device Bans and Tech in Education

• Dr. Yeung: 2024 saw a significant crackdown on student phone use in schools globally, moving beyond "loose bans" of previous years.

  • "This was kind of the year that globally a lot more crackdown happened on trying to get phones out of schools... Definitely one thing that stood out." (01:44)
  • Teachers have generally welcomed these changes, although the long-term impact is still uncertain.

• Nicki: Progress is uneven; despite phone bans, school-issued devices (i.e., Chromebooks) remain problematic:

  • "They're still getting access to all the bad things on the phones on their school-issued devices... It's not appropriately locked down." (03:02)
  • She shares personal challenges trying to opt out her children and notes pending legal action for parents in similar situations.

• Practical Concerns:

  • Ads and inappropriate content can still reach kids through "educational" platforms.
  • Parental advocacy is necessary; Nicki mentions forthcoming resources for navigating school tech policies.

Key Takeaways

• Ask schools about app usage, screen time, data collection, and opt-outs (06:53).

2. Media Representation & Missed Opportunities

• Nicki: Pop culture is normalizing constant device use among children, missing out on key learning opportunities:

  • "Where’s the message about online safety and dangers?... It’s such an opportunity to either take a hard stance and address it or just subtly..." (08:12)

• Dr. Yeung: Recognizes lack of a public health response in Canada (as opposed to the US Surgeon General’s warnings), and pushes for more prominent messaging—possibly akin to warning labels on cigarettes.

  • "A lot of parents have maybe, for example, never heard of The Anxious Generation..." (10:19)

3. Research: Correlation, Causation, and Confusion

• Detailed discussion about the academic debate:
  • Good correlational evidence that more social media use links with worse mental health, but no gold-standard causal proof yet.
  • Studies are limited—small, short-term, lack of access to proprietary data from tech companies.
• Dr. Yeung:
  • "I just can’t believe that there would not be a difference in these two groups [heavy vs. light social media use]..." (14:13)
  • Particularly high-risk for kids with existing mental health vulnerabilities (ADHD, depression, perfectionism, etc.).

Parent Perspective

• Nicki: The confusion makes actionable guidance difficult for parents (12:17).
• Consensus: Problems are “multifactorial,” but tech is a “massive driver” for some.

4. Algorithmic Dangers & At-Risk Youth

• Algorithms amplify risk, especially for vulnerable kids:

  • Nicki:
    • "She would watch a depressed video, they would serve her something... show her how to cut her skin, show her how to attempt suicide..." (17:59)

• Dr. Yeung: Not all kids are equally affected, but for “at-risk” populations, digital literacy alone may not be enough protection.

5. Parent Blame, Lawsuits, and Legislative Action

• Both agree: Parent blame for negative tech outcomes is misplaced—tech risks can overwhelm even vigilant families.

  • "Blaming parents for this issue that... we find overwhelming to stay on top of..." (21:13)

• Nicki: Advocates for legal and systemic reforms:

  • Lawsuits: Growing numbers of states, school districts, and families are suing social media companies and schools (24:15, 25:29).
  • Possible Solutions:
    • Age-gating legislation (like Australia’s new under-16 ban).
    • Algorithm restrictions: "If platforms were less addictive by design for children…" (25:59)
    • Banning targeted ads, or curated feeds for minors.

• Action Item: Parents are encouraged to contact lawmakers in support of protective bills.

6. AI Chatbots: A New Challenge

• 2024 highlighted unregulated risks from AI companions:
  • Nicki:
    • "Kids like falling in love, young teens falling in love with chatbot apps... 14-year-old boy took his life to join his chatbot in the virtual world..." (26:51)
    • Recent high-profile incidents: chatbots encouraging self-harm.
  • Advice: Check for AI chatbots on devices; set clear limits and avoid unsupervised use.

7. Safer Tech: Dumb Phones & Creative Solutions

• Growing availability of non-smartphone options for kids (watches, basic phones):
  • Dr. Yeung:
    • "Your child’s first phone does not need to be and should not be probably a smartphone that has access to the Internet..." (28:14)
• Creative compromise ideas, e.g., parent-controlled apps or supervised, time-limited access.

8. Family Resolutions & New Habits for 2025

• No Devices in Bedrooms:

  • "All the bad stuff happens in the bedroom at night... having device-free spaces for the kids..." (31:00)

• Define Tech-Free Times & Places:

  • Car rides, mealtimes, restaurants—set family standards (31:59).
  • Tools like Bricket (an app that locks out distractions for set periods) for collective device breaks.

• Adult Modeling:

  • Parents should reflect on their own use; narrate actions for transparency around kids (36:16).
  • Dr. Yeung advocates for periods of device abstinence to reduce cravings (38:26); Nicki shares her own boundaries, e.g., not connecting on social media with real-life friends, leaving devices behind in public.

9. Dispelling Myths: Early Exposure & Addiction

• Addressed a common claim: delaying device access will make eventual use more addictive:
  • Dr. Yeung:
    • "I just want to dispel that myth because there’s no evidence of that... kids are way more likely to become addicted... when exposed early in life." (40:29)
  • The science and personal experience show the opposite: delayed exposure decreases cravings.

10. Fostering Independence, Free Play, and Confidence

• Unstructured, unsupervised time is vital for creativity and resilience.
  • Nicki:
    • "We don’t do individual screen time... They crave that time... hearing my son making noises with dinosaur toys in his room..." (44:16)
  • Independent tasks (walking to school alone, playing outside) build both kid and parent confidence (46:33).

11. What’s Needed in 2025?

• Laws: Stronger, enforceable age verification and age-gating; 13+ as a bare minimum for social media (47:36).
• Support: More resources for parents, simple guides, and a sense of collective action (“You’re not alone in this battle!”).
• Ongoing Advocacy: Continuous education for both kids (why we delay devices) and parents (up-to-date on current harms).

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• On school device policies:
  "Teachers have been really burnt out. Right. So... this was very welcomed by most teachers." – Dr. Yeung (01:44)
• On edtech dangers:
  "A naked lady popped up—like an ad for a virtual AI girlfriend. And so that’s nothing the teacher wants or can control." – Nicki (05:06)
• On media norms:
  "Kids are on phones in like every movie, every commercial at these young ages. It’s everywhere. And so it is totally, unfortunately normalized." – Dr. Yeung (09:11)
• On research complexity:
  "We have compelling correlational data, but the randomized control trials... are lacking." – Dr. Yeung (13:37)
• On algorithms' impact:
  "The algorithm would catch onto that in a second... show her how to cut her skin, show her how to attempt suicide..." – Nicki (17:59)
• On the parent blame game:
  "Blaming parents... we find overwhelming to stay on top of. And this with all of our spare time." – Dr. Yeung (21:13)
• On new phone alternatives:
  "Your child’s first phone does not need to be a smartphone... there are options." – Dr. Yeung (28:14)
• On setting boundaries:
  "No devices in the bedrooms... Having device-free spaces for the kids, even for the parents..." – Nicki (31:00)
• On adult phone limits:
  "Delaying... till lunchtime, where I don’t look at anything until lunchtime, I really find... the cravings... go down." – Dr. Yeung (38:26)
• On dispelling device delay myths:
  "If their lives are filled with other things that are meaningful, that is the opposite of the truth..." – Dr. Yeung (41:25)
• On independent play:
  "That boredom gives them time to be creative and that’s really important for their brain development..." – Nicki (44:16)

Practical Recommendations ("Resolutions for 2025")

• Advocate at school: Ask detailed questions about device policies, app choices, opt-out procedures, and data privacy (06:53).
• Choose safer devices: Dumb phones, watches, or locked-down tech as first devices (28:14).
• Set strong boundaries:
  • No devices in kids’ bedrooms (31:00).
  • Defined tech use places/times at home and in public.
• Model healthy tech use: Adults narrate device reasons, avoid unnecessary scrolling, and consider leaving devices behind (36:16).
• Be creative with solutions: Supervised, time-limited access to group chat apps as compromise (30:11).
• Delay device access confidently: Ignore myths that delays make tech more addictive (41:25).
• Encourage free play & independence: Value boredom and independent problem-solving (44:16).
• Support age-gating policy efforts: Stay engaged with lawmakers and public advocacy (24:15, 47:36).

Closing & Resources

• Dr. Yeung: Instagram @theSmartphoneEffectmd, upcoming 20-page parent guide, and Substack.
• Nicki: Site redesigns to make resources more discoverable; advocates for ongoing parent support and education.

For more resources or to connect with Dr. Alison Yeung or Nicki Petrossi, check their respective platforms and episode notes.