Is the iPhone Finally Safe for Kids? (with Titania Jordan & Chris McKenna)

Summary

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Scrolling 2 Death

Episode: Is the iPhone Finally Safe for Kids?
Host: Nicki Petrossi
Guests: Titania Jordan (Bark Technologies), Chris McKenna (Protect Young Eyes)
Date: June 22, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode explores whether new parental control features announced by Apple and Google genuinely make smartphones safer for children—or whether these updates simply shift more responsibility and stress onto parents. Host Nicki Petrossi, joined by Titania Jordan (Chief Parenting Officer at Bark Technologies) and, later, Chris McKenna (Founder, Protect Young Eyes), analyze what’s promising, what’s missing, and why these changes are happening now. They challenge tech companies’ motives and discuss the enduring “illusion of safety” surrounding kids and devices.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Now? The True Motives Behind Parental Control Updates

• Corporate Liability Over Child Safety
  • Titania asserts that the timing of Apple and Google’s announcements is driven by legal pressures and potential liability, not a newfound sense of responsibility.
    • “It’s because of the threat of liability...They have to do enough to check some boxes to say, ‘we are doing something about these major problems.’” (02:30 – Titania)
• Legislation and Legal Losses
  • Chris summarizes how lawsuits, new state-level laws, and the threat of federal action are compelling Apple and Google to act, not internal ethical awakenings.
    • “They did things because Apple only does things when forced...that’s the way it's always been.” (28:16 – Chris)
    • “They just lost in the fifth circuit in Texas...so now they're blowing it out globally and taking credit for doing the right thing.” (29:50 – Chris)

2. What's Actually Changing? (And What Isn’t)

• Apple’s Updates
  • Expanded parental controls to include:
    • "Ask to Browse" (kids seek parent permission for new websites)
    • Expanding nudity detection to include gore and violent content
    • Requiring approval to communicate with new contacts
  • Critique: Most of this is incremental or already existed.
    • “Ask to buy isn’t new...there’s very little new.” (12:28 – Nicki & Titania)
    • “These are bare minimum functions. Too little, too late.” (13:43 – Titania)
• Google’s Updates
  • Downtime schedules, enhanced app filters, more control over blocking apps.
  • Critique: Implementation is embarrassingly overdue.
    • “How come they didn’t already have this? That’s wild...Is this—we’re celebrating this? This is embarrassing.” (05:21 – Titania)
• False Sense of Protection for Kids
  • “Nudity protection” is just content blurring, not blocking:
    • “They blur it and say, ‘are you sure you want to see this?’ They still give children the option to view...and be forever scarred by this content.” (06:58 – Titania)
    • “It’s teasing, it’s encouragement, it’s enticement. It’s like a little speed bump—not helpful.” (08:40 – Titania)
  • Predators and harmful messages can still reach kids even with new controls.
    • “Even if an approved contact sends a [dick pic], it does not come through [on Bark].” (13:19 – Titania)

3. Illusion of Safety, Shifting Responsibility, and Parental Burden

• Adult Devices for Kids
  • The iPhone is fundamentally designed for adults. Safety requires parents to manually apply protections—often through complex steps.
    • “It just highlights...this is an adult phone and you’re having to tell the phone that it’s for a child. And even then it doesn’t act as a safe device.” (11:19 – Nicki)
• Apple’s Moves: PR Over Substance
  • Apple’s communication (emphasizing a dedicated website & parent guide) is seen as hollow.
    • “We should throw a party because Apple...has a website to tell us how to use parental controls. Oh good gosh.” (17:36 – Titania)
    • “If you can make devices that babies can use, why [do] parental control systems need...a 60-page guide?” (18:03 – Nicki)
  • Most documentation and guides for lockdown are produced by third parties (e.g., Chris McKenna, Ben Gillenwater) because Apple’s own systems are neither easy nor comprehensive.
    • “It takes highly technically savvy people...to put together multiple page guides so that you can do the right thing. That doesn’t make sense.” (18:16 – Titania)

4. The Profit Motive: Why Real Safety Isn’t Profitable for Apple

• Revenue Comes from Engagement
  • Apple benefits financially from higher device and app engagement, making robust safety features that would limit use contrary to their business interests.
    • “The more you use the phone, the more things you download...makes them more money. And so it’s not just about buying the hardware...All of this work around child safety...it just digs into that profit.” (16:48 – Nicki)
  • Bark, in contrast, has no engagement-based profit motives.
    • “We do not benefit from children spending more time on a Bark device...building trust with families is critical.” (20:06 – Titania)

5. Outdated Legal Frameworks & Age Definitions

• Why 13 or 14 “Becomes” Adult in Online Systems
  • Out-of-date laws (COPPA) set 13 as the age at which children can consent online, leading Apple/Google to remove parental controls or monitoring at that birthday.
    • “That’s why social media companies say you can have social media 13 plus, it doesn’t mean it’s good for you...online, a 13 year old is treated like an adult when it comes to their data.” (22:38 – 23:07 – Nicki & Titania)

6. Breaking the Illusion of Safety

• Nothing Is Truly Safe
  • Technological solutions are always partial and imperfect; seatbelts and alarms mitigate but don’t eliminate risk.
    • “It is absolutely an illusion that everything is going to work all the time. So yeah, just go ahead and break it. It’s broken, right?” (23:43 – 24:34 – Titania)
  • Tech company statements, like “apps you love from a place you can trust,” are PR, not tested fact.
    • “They tell us we can trust them...You can’t believe them. It’s been tested, tried and tested, and it’s failed.” (25:10 – Nicki)

7. Are iPhones “Safe” for Kids Now?

• Unanimous Response: No.
  • Neither Titania nor Chris believe iPhones can be truly safe for children, even with new controls.
    • “No...Will it be safer? We hope so, but we’ll see...At the end of the day, Apple, I believe, is prioritizing reducing their liability, not making it actually meaningfully safer for kids.” (25:58 – 27:19 – Titania)
    • “There’s no such thing as a safe option...I don’t care what Apple rolls out in September...it’s still not the safest phone for kids. It’ll be better, but it’s not the first phone for kids.” (33:02 – 34:14 – Chris)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Real Motive for Updates:
  “It’s because of the threat of liability...They are now finally feeling the pressure....”
  — Titania Jordan, 02:30

• On Content Filters:
  “It’s teasing, it’s encouragement, it’s enticement....a little speed bump—not helpful.”
  — Titania Jordan, 08:40

• On the Complexity of “Kid Mode”:
  “If you can make devices that babies can use, why do the parental control systems need a website and a 60-page guide?”
  — Nicki Petrossi, 18:03

• On Apple’s Profit Motives:
  “All of this work around child safety...it just digs into that profit. It takes away from the money that they make and their stock price and their responsibility to their shareholders.”
  — Nicki Petrossi, 16:48

• On Legal Pressure:
  “They only did it because they were forced to...liability and force is the only reason we’re doing this.”
  — Chris McKenna, 28:16-29:38

• On the Illusion of Safety:
  “It is absolutely an illusion that everything is going to work all the time. So, yeah, just go ahead and break it. It’s broken, right?”
  — Titania Jordan, 24:34

• On Safety of iPhones for Kids:
  “No...Will it be safer? We hope so, but we’ll see....Apple is not the best choice for children, even with what they claim is coming. And that’s not just my take—that anybody who knows their stuff...will agree with me.”
  — Titania Jordan, 25:58–27:19

  “There’s no such thing as a safe option. There are safer options...A kid’s first phone should never be an iPhone.”
  — Chris McKenna, 33:02–34:14

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Important Segment Timestamps

• Motivations for New Controls: 02:30 – 04:11
• Critique of Google’s Announcements: 05:21 – 06:50
• Apple’s Content Filters & Their Pitfalls: 06:58 – 08:45
• PR vs Real Safety Features: 09:08 – 12:10
• New “Ask to Browse” Feature: 12:39 – 13:12
• Apple’s Revenue Model & Safety Conflict: 14:44 – 16:48
• Discussion of Apple’s Parent Guide: 17:25 – 18:16
• Business Incentives and Parental Burden: 19:19 – 21:52
• Legal Age for Online “Adulthood” & COPPA: 22:38 – 23:33
• Breaking the Safety Illusion: 23:38 – 25:35
• Are iPhones Ever “Safe” for Kids?: 25:58 – 27:19, 32:51 – 34:14
• Legal/Liability Pressure on Apple: 28:16 – 30:57

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Tone and Language

• Candid, skeptical, and at times exasperated.
  Both Titania and Nicki use plain language, humor, and analogies (“Camel cigarettes VP of lung health”) to underscore their frustrations. They frequently emphasize empathy for parents and challenge the tech industry’s self-congratulatory tone.
• **Chris McKenna’s contributions are pragmatic and firm, adding a policy-forward perspective and encouraging vigilance and persistent parental involvement.

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Conclusion

Apple and Google’s latest parental control announcements are largely viewed by these experts as a response to mounting legal and public pressure, rather than a principled pivot towards child safety. While some features may make it easier for parents to set up protections, the core reality remains: mainstream smartphones, designed for adults and built for engagement, cannot be made fully safe for children simply by toggling new controls. Responsibility continues to fall heavily on already overburdened parents, and genuine safety gains await deeper changes in both law and design philosophy.

Bottom Line:
New features may be a small step forward, but parents shouldn’t take headlines at face value—critical risks to children remain, and “safe for kids” is still an illusion.

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Transcript

[A]

Welcome to Scrolling to Death. You may have seen in the news that Apple and Google just unveiled a new wave of parental controls promising safer digital experiences for children on their devices. But do these tools actually protect children? Or do they simply put more responsibility in and stress on parents? Today, I am joined by Titania Jordan of Bark Technologies to break down what Apple and Google has announced. What is missing, and whether these updates address the real risks that kids face online. We're going to talk about the illusion of safety, why big tech's parental controls so often fall short. And the bigger question, is a smartphone designed for adults ever truly safe for children? Let's get into my conversation with Titania and potentially a surprise guest if he's able to join us from the airport. Are you ready to. Are you ready already?

[B]

I am ready. I'm done chugging my pomegranate seeds.

[A]

Oh, I love those.

[B]

For my stupid fiber, stupid fiber, stupid fiber goals.

[A]

Listen, we're getting to that age where we have to start supplementing and making really specific choices about what we eat and put in our bodies. No.

[B]

And I don't like it, but I'm ready.

[A]

You know what I love are the, like, when there's a gummy form of. Of the vitamin, then it's like candy,

[B]

but you have to see how much sugar's in it, right?

[A]

Because. Don't ruin it. Never mind.

[B]

But I will say I was taking these magnesium gummies, thinking I was, like, winning at life, and then I saw how much sugar was in them and I was like, oh, no wonder I like them. They are not candy.

[A]

Okay, enough mom chat. Maybe I'll include that in the episode.

[B]

I mean, it's relevant.

[A]

Perimenopause. Here we go. Yeah.

[B]

Fiber, protein, magnesium, creatine, hot flashes. Not what we're. Yeah, not what we're talking about today, but definitely what's on our minds.

[A]

Also on our minds is the devices that our kids use. And what's interesting is that recently Apple and Google, as of today. What's today? Today's the 17th of June. We're recording this. Announced updates to their parental controls for their respective devices. And I'm wondering, just generally to Tanya, why. Why now? Why do you feel like now is when they're rolling these things out?

[B]

Nikki, that is why. One of the many reasons why I love you and how you present to the world is because you asked the exact right question, why now? And our friend Chris McKenna will be joining us soon and I think he will reinforce this, but it's not because all of a sudden they had a change of heart. Like, you know what we really need to do more to protect kids proactively online? It's because of the threat of liability. It's because the magnifying glass on these companies is becoming sharper and sharper and more and more lawsuits are, you know, being posed, coming to fruition, and they are now finally feeling the pressure of we have to do enough to check some boxes to say we are doing something about this, these major problems. But when you read between the lines as to what is actually happening, it's either we don't know yet because they haven't even rolled it out in Apple's case, or it still boils down to screen time, time management, contact approval, and the ability or inability for a child to unilaterally change it or delete it. So we welcome making those things easier for parents. But what neither Apple nor Google are doing, which they should and which Bark has been doing for the past 11 years, is to alert parents when a child is at serious risk and they have the ability to do that and. Or partner with us to help them do that, and they don't. So that's my tldr.

[A]

I feel the same. And I, I always am hesitant to celebrate, like a PR announcement on something that hasn't even rolled out. It's very interesting. We, we haven't tested it yet. And if we've learned anything from this, these experiences is they announce things and then it doesn't end up working, as they say, or what they have announced isn't there anymore. Things don't work, you know, and so this is for Apple, supposed to roll out in the fall. And I do want to spend a little bit of time going through some of what they say is going to be updated on the iPhones. And because still, as of now, 88% of teens own an adult phone. The iPhone.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So we'll go through that, but briefly for Google. If your child has an Android or a Pixel phone, I think that's also Google. They are rolling out downtime schedules where parents can control the amount of screen time on those phones and then also app filters for the Google Play Store and then more control to limit or block specific apps. Any. Any thoughts on this update from. From Google?

[B]

I mean, a. How come they didn't already have this? That's wild. Honestly, I was like, is this. This. We're celebrating this. This is embarrassing. On the flip side, I, I mean, I appreciate it. Right? Anything that any company can do to make parental controls easier to understand and implement. Great like, thank you. It's really hard because I frequently come across really snarky online, whether I'm throwing shade to Roblox or Apple or TikTok or whomever. Right. Because I'm.

[A]

Me too.

[C]

Right.

[A]

Do I come across snarky? It's okay. I'm okay with it. You're like a little sassy.

[B]

I don't think it's either of those. Honestly, you come across as trusted because you are surfacing the truth based on data. And that is, I hope, how I come across too. And so what I'm trying to do is be very balanced and reporting facts. Right. And so again, like, it's great that Apple and Google are doing this. It's interesting they announced it within like a week of each other. What pressure is being applied behind the scenes that we don't see? And Chris, I know he's joining us, made a really great reel on social media that highlighted the things that were happening behind the scenes. And actually Chris is a lot closer to it. Right. I've never spoken with anybody at Apple. I've never helped guide what they could be doing better. Chris is closer to that.

[A]

Okay, great. Well, let's ask Chris when he jumps on. He's going through security right now at the Orange County Airport. So he will be on as soon as he can.

[B]

Here's one of the things that really just pisses me off and it's very relevant that to your work with the Heat initiative. Apple thinks and celebrates the fact that they have content sensitivity filters that essentially still bring the nudity, graphic violence, whatever, right to a child's phone. They blur it and they say, are you sure you wanna see this? They still give children the option to view and be forever scarred by this content. They still allow children to send this content. Why is nobody talking about this besides you, me, Chris McKenna, Sarah Gardner, heat Initiative and a few other people. Like, how is this. That's what blows my mind.

[A]

It's not even a nothing. It's like a non update. But it almost makes it worse. Like teasing a teenager with this could be potential nudity or Gore content or bloody content. And then being like, do you want to see it anyway? And then letting them ch. It's like teasing them into looking. It's like exciting them into looking rather than.

[B]

It's clickbait.

[A]

I mean rather than just blocking it, which is an option and which is something that the bark phone does. And it's.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So yeah, that is the. Probably the most egregious of. Of the things that they. You Know, Apple iPhone already had that nudity protection feature, but they've recently expanded it to cover, what is it? Gore and violent content.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And so again, protection. Not protection.

[B]

It's teasing, it's encouragement, it's enticement. It's like a little speed bump.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Not helpful.

[A]

It's not helpful. Let's. And okay, so when I went, when I heard about Apple's updates and then I went to the source of, you know, their blog. I don't, I try not to read the media coverage of it.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Go to their blog and there's a quote from. This is so funny. Sambul Desai, who is their vice president of health and fitness.

[B]

Fitness, yes. Right.

[A]

At Apple. I thought that was super funny.

[B]

I saw that. I saw that and chuckled as well.

[A]

It's like Camel cigarettes. Having a VP of like lung health or something. It just like makes no sense.

[B]

Right. We're not talking about kids getting enough steps per day.

[A]

Right, Right.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I mean, maybe with the Apple Watch. Maybe the Apple watch because it has like, it can track your steps. Is that what the fitness part weighs in?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

And so can the Bark watch. Like, right. These are not things to celebrate in terms of making children safer. They've really leaned into making their parental controls easier to use. Which actually, if I'm in PR and communications at Apple, I'm ashamed, I'm ashamed of myself because that's what Apple is known for, is being easy to use, making it simple. So easy to a 3 year old who can't even read, can navigate things. Yet for years their parental controls have been hard to navigate, able to be circumvented and, or broken. And so they're basically, what they're actually saying is we realize this experience has sucked and we hope, we hope it's better for you, but we won't know until the fall when it's live. And we really haven't done very much to change very much. And you don't have to take my word for it. One of my favorite. You know, you mentioned you go straight to the source. Me too. But this piece on Apple parental controls, I think it was in the verb, not verb. Verve.

[A]

Verge.

[B]

Yes, the Verge. Okay, thank you. Well, the headline is Apple's New Parental Controls are for Keeping Apple out of Trouble. Really?

[C]

Yes,

[A]

because they put. But what it does is put a lot of responsibility, more responsibility on the parent. On the parent. Right. Instead of fixing like they go half ass on what they could actually do to protect the kid and instead put all the responsibility on the parent. In the beginning of their announcement, they talk about, first of all, which I think is very interesting, how important it is for the parent to set up the phone with a child account. And that just highlights for me, like this is an adult phone and you're having to tell the phone that it's for a child. And even then it doesn't act as a safe. As a safe device.

[B]

Right. It doesn't just arrive safe.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Okay. Also, Jennifer Pattison Tuohy, senior Reviewer with over 20 years of experience at the Verge, used to write for Wirecutter, Wired, BBC, et cetera. Her headline is Apple's screen time updates are Too Little too late. That's the headline. So, like, these people are independent journalists. They have no reason to either support or not support Apple. They just tell you like it is.

[A]

Okay. So the. Some of the other things that they have announced they're rolling out over at Apple is an ask to buy function so that children can ask before they download certain apps or make in app purchases.

[B]

They already have this. You. If you turn it on. This isn't new.

[A]

Oh, okay, I see.

[B]

Like, that's what I'm saying is like it's. There's, there's very little new.

[A]

Okay. Is the ask to browse new? Where parents can.

[B]

That is new.

[A]

Okay. So kids have to ask permission to access a new website in Safari, which is happy about that.

[B]

We are happy about that. I don't see any negative about that doesn't currently exist. That's a wise choice.

[A]

Is it new? The communication safety setting for Apple now where they say kids have to ask for approval before communicating with a new contact.

[B]

That I believe is new and wise. You know, totally good job.

[A]

But that contact can still send a

[B]

dick pic once you approve it. Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. And again, like bark phone, even if an approved contact sends a dick pic, it does not come through. It does not land in your child's messages or brain forever.

[A]

Okay, but we like having to approve contacts. That is a baseline function that should have been there. Right. It's a bare minimum function. I completely agree.

[B]

Like the Verge reporter said, too little too late. Like really, we're celebrating this. You should be ashamed that it took you this long for these very basic and obvious rollouts.

[A]

And will there be workarounds? We have yet to know. Yeah.

[B]

I will celebrate once families have begun to use this and say, you know what? This actually works. And I hope that's the case.

[A]

I hope so too. Listen, I always want these updates to work. I want kids to be safer because kids, although we don't believe they should be using iPhones, kids will continue to be given iPhones. So if those kids can be safer, that's great. But unfortunately a lot of these functions limit the amount that a kid uses the phone. That's how Apple makes money is the more the kid uses the apps and the phone and the Internet and communicating and messaging, they make more money. And so it doesn't align with their business values and their business practices to limit.

[B]

Will you expand on that? I know you and I know that, but I don't think the average parent that we will be sharing this to realizes how that makes Apple make more money. I think parents think Apple makes their money when you go buy their device or when you sign up for their icloud storage package. Like let's dig into that more if you want to.

[A]

A couple examples are the App Store. So when you or your child downloads an app and pays for that app, 30% of that price of the app download goes to Apple. That's a big chunk. Even when you take photos and store them in the icloud take a photo just saved on your phone, you're renting space from Apple to use their storage to, you know, in the I cloud. And so you're, they're making money off of the how many photos that you take.

[B]

Because Apple is not a social media platform that monetizes time spent an app. Right, but is it, is it just by you using your iPhone outside of increasing photo and video storage, spending money on apps that they get a cut of? You know, are they selling our data for advertising and tracking purposes?

[A]

Like I've heard that they're pretty good about data privacy when it comes to kids especially. I mean we all have subscriptions to like Apple Music, Apple TV plus or Apple tv, Apple News, those kind of add on services that are owned by Apple.

[B]

Dude, I have this $13 a month charge that hits maybe more than one. I don't and it's from Apple and I'm like I don't know what this is. And it's just low enough to where I don't have time to go figure out what it is.

[A]

Right. I know we all have a few of those.

[B]

What is this?

[A]

Did you know that Apple gets a cut every time you use Apple Pay?

[B]

I didn't know that for a fact, but it checks out. It makes sense.

[A]

I had not realized that. Okay, so there they're making money. They serve ads in the App Store. The news, their Apple news.

[B]

Oh yeah.

[A]

So you're getting served ads and they're making money that way. There's several different ways that they're making money. The more you use the phone, the more things you download onto the phone makes them more money. And so it's not just about buying the hardware. One and done.

[B]

Yes, thank you, thank you for digging into that. I think that's not only important for parents to understand, but for kids to understand. So many parents are like, help me explain to my kids why, why, why, why, Right? And when children understand the business reasons for the manipulation, they become more empowered and less passive.

[A]

My favorite update that they made about their parental control systems is that Apple launched a dedicated website and guide for parents to stay informed. I can't wait to hear your thoughts on that.

[B]

Oh my gosh, oh my gosh.

[A]

It's like we share a brain. I know your video on Instagram. A 60 to 80 page guide for parents like this. So funny.

[B]

Like, oh my gosh, we should throw, we should throw a party because Apple, you guys has a website to tell us how to use what parental controls. Oh good gosh, let's all go over

[A]

there and, and check it out. I mean it's like, oh, parents don't have time. You, if you can make devices that babies can use, why do the parental control systems need a website and a 60 page guide?

[B]

Well, and that's the thing is Apple didn't even put together the 60 page guide. Chris McKenna had to put it together. That's the guide I'm talking about. He's like, if you choose Apple, here's how to lock it down. And our friend Ben Gillenwater, the family IT guy, I think his guide's like 80 something pages. Like it takes highly technically savvy people who care about children first and foremost to put together multiple page guides so that you can do the right thing. That doesn't make sense. What is the benefit for them to not do better? We know, as you mentioned, Apple makes money through certain things that if they were actually made safer, would negatively impact revenue. We know why Snap and Instagram and TikTok don't roll out meaningful protections. Right? Their engagement would drop, their revenue would drop, share stock price would drop. But like fundamentally, if Apple and Google have the budgets, apparently have the engineering power to do what Bark does, why don't they, like, I can't think of

[A]

why they're making so much money business as usual doing what they're doing, which is the least possible. And so investing millions of dollars into parental controls that work, that take kids away from the device making them less money does not. They're not incentivized to do that. And I do think that's what it comes down to. And I think we need to think about Apple similar to Meta and Snapchat in where engagement does equal profit. And this, all of this work around child safety and parental controls. It just digs into that profit. It takes away from the money that they make and their stock price and their responsibility to their shareholders.

[B]

Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. Because we, as a company, we do not benefit from children spending more time on a bark device or an Apple or Google phone that has the bark app on it. We're not harvesting data, selling data. That's not our goal. Our goal is not to make money off of your kids from time spent on a device, on an app. So I get the difference there. You know, building trust with families is critical. You know, we saw, we've seen recently in the news where, you know, Google, owner of YouTube, had a whole campaign around school tech getting kids hooked on YouTube very early. My. My son, now 17 and a half, actually worked on an essay recently that like, moved me because he's like, I now, I now understand the predatory nature of what happened to me by having a Chromebook given to me in third grade. It's just. It's really interesting. It's really, really interesting. And another aspect, I know I'm kind of all over the because squirrel. But like, I know at least with Apple, they are very sensitive to being seen as invasive or not protecting privacy. And so I've always been very aware that they're not gonna do the most there. They're not gonna prioritize child safety over predator or anybody else's privacy. They're just not until like the board and major leadership changes. But it's fascinating. It's sad.

[A]

And when I talk to experts who know a lot more than me, you can have privacy and child protection in the same device. That is something that they don't want us to believe.

[B]

I know. It's really sad. It's sad. It's sad. We always say that we wish we didn't have to exist as a company. We're glad that we do. And we are gonna, 15 years from now look back just like we're doing right now over the past 15 years of what we have done to childhood. It's wild.

[A]

We got a lot of questions from parents, a lot of them we won't know the answer to until this rolls out. And we're able to test, to test the new parental controls in that system. And so. But there are some questions here that I think are interesting that we could touch on now. And one is that, you know, within Apple's family option, they consider a child that is 14 an adult. Why is that short input?

[B]

Is that the law that hasn't been updated since we were in high school, Nikki and I, or maybe Nikki middle school, I'm a little bit older, states that children 13 +, children 13+ have a different set of laws that apply to him when it comes to technology. And that's why social media companies say you can have social media 13 plus, it doesn't mean it's good for you. They're not using data. Right. Because we know it's 16 plus.

[A]

Right. And so online a 13 year old is treated like an adult when it comes to their data. And so that's why all the online platforms have chosen 13 as the age when they can get access because parents can be cut out of the equation.

[B]

You know, and if you want to Google it, because I am not a legal expert, just Google the COPPA C O P P A, the Children Online Privacy and Protection Act. You can go down a rabbit hole. Have fun.

[A]

Someone asked how do we break the illusion of safety with these products?

[B]

I mean we, we need two hours at least. I mean, you know, and then we

[A]

can just break it, we got it in two hours. We can break that illusion.

[B]

Yeah, the illusion of safety. I mean nothing's, nothing's safe. Are you trying to communicate that to a child or an adult yourself? You know, I mean, we put seatbelts in cars to help prevent accidents, but it's not 100%. People still unfortunately pass away even when they're wearing a seatbelt. Right. You know, you lock your door, you have an alarm system, but sometimes people still can break in. You have antivirus software and sometimes you still get viruses. Apple icloud has been hacked and they, I will say, are, you know, the leaders in the space when it comes to protecting privacy. So nothing is out of the realm of possibility. It is absolutely an illusion that everything is going to work all the time. So yeah, just go ahead and break it. It's broken, right?

[A]

Right.

[B]

We just broke it.

[A]

We broke it. We broke the illusion.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I think though, like even further than the fact that nothing is totally safe, the companies are very loose with their statements that our platforms are safe for kids, are safe for teens, or you can have peace of mind when your child is using our platform. All of that is a lie, unfortunately. All of that is just safe. Titania's face is very like, oh, God. I mean, this is what the app store says, like, apps you love from a place you can trust.

[B]

Oh, are you serious?

[A]

Yeah. So, no. Yeah. They say, they tell us we can trust them when it comes to keeping our kids safe. And listen, we want to believe them. You can't believe them. It's been tested, tried and tested, and it's failed. And so we. I know. I need a screenshot.

[B]

That's nuts. Am I being punked right now? That's insane.

[A]

Okay, I know. So just don't trust these announcement announcements at face value. Organizations like ours will test them and then check those independent reports before just believing that something is safe, I guess. Last question that kind of wraps this whole thing up is, will the iPhone now be safe for children?

[B]

No. No. Will it be safer? We hope so, but we'll see. So I think the best case scenario parents can hope for after the fall when the new iOS rolls out is that parents will have more clarity on how the heck to even set up parental controls. It might be easier to understand, and it might even be easier to keep those protections in place that you think you set. It might be easier, but at the end of the day, Apple, I believe, is prioritizing reducing their liability, not making it actually meaningfully safer for kids. As long as kids can still send nudes, receive nudes, even if there's a little speed bump of like, you really want to see this? Of course they really want to see this. As long as CSAM is still allowed in icloud. As long as we're still letting predators go unflagged and unchecked, you know, list goes on and on and on and on and on. Apple is not the best choice for children, even with what they claim is coming. And that's not just my take that anybody who knows their stuff when it comes to technology and child protection will agree with me.

[A]

Yeah, I a hundred percent agree. And I. The doorbell just rang. Let's see if. Let's see who it is.

[C]

Hey, Chris.

[B]

What's up, Nikki?

[C]

Hey. To Tanya. It's so awesome to see you both.

[A]

I feel like. What's the. It was it. What's the show?

[B]

Mr. Rogers.

[A]

Sorry.

[B]

Yeah, Mr. Rogers moment.

[A]

I know.

[C]

Oh, that's my generation. I wish I could have been there for it. Couldn't we all benefit from going back to Mr. Rogers moments?

[A]

My gosh, we so can. And you know, Chris, I'm so glad you could jump in, and I just want to get a few of your thoughts, really Quick. We just went through Apple's latest announcement announcement with their parental controls. We touched on Google too, because Google made some announcements about their parental controls today. I guess I would like to know from you what was your reaction when. Let's focus on Apple. Since most teens have iPhones, what was your reaction when you heard their updates to their parental control system?

[C]

Okay, so two things. And I think we can live in a world where two things can be true. They're awesome. Great, let's do this. And if it quacks like a duck, it's a duck. Apple is still Apple. Okay. They did things because Apple only does things when forced. So good changes. But let's never forget that Apple still doesn't care about our kids. Titania, you called that out right away. I kind of waited for some of the reaction just to see. And a lot of people were very positive about it. Great. Let's celebrate anything that's going to protect kids and let's celebrate anything that demystifies what has been a horribly difficult, overly complex primary control system that Apple has created. Awesome. Let's celebrate that. And let's never forget that Apple and Google still are not going to be the best ones to care for our kids. That's still on us. So I just, I want to acknowledge those two things can be true. I'm sure. Titania, you talked all about that. I am anxious to see what happens. Some of the features are great, but they only did it because they were forced to. And that's the truth. That's the way it's always been since 2018. That's the way it's always been. The only reason we even got screen times because a bunch of shareholders with a billion dollars in Apple stock back in 2018 said to the board, do something or we're out. That was the only reason. We got controls then. And liability and force is the only reason we're doing this. Change is not.

[A]

Boom. Titania just dropped a invisible mic. So we talked about kind of why now and you referenced that. Anything else, Chris, on like why they made this announcement now?

[C]

So there's a couple of pieces of policy at the state and the federal level that are being discussed. There's still a policy that's a part of a parental control package being discussed in Congress. It's called the App Store Accountability act, which started as state level legislation, first passed in Utah, then in Texas and Louisiana. There's multiple states that pass it now, essentially saying to App Store owners, which is primarily Apple and Google, let parents consent before we create Contracts between children and billion dollar companies because that's what we do in every other part of business, whether it's loans or cars or rentals, whatever. That was passed to multiple states. And now Apple is saying, hey, now it's a good idea to improve parental consent, to improve parental involvement everywhere because we know that this is going to be true. They just lost in the fifth circuit in Texas because they sued the Texas attorney general because this got passed and they lost. So now they know they have to do this and it just makes more sense to do it everywhere. So now they're blowing it out globally and taking credit for doing the right thing. So it's because they've been forced.

[A]

It reminds me of the first habit in your new book, Chris, which talk speaks to, and I haven't dug in detail yet, but speaks to like modeling the right behaviors, meaning we should be paying attention to what their actions are, not what they're saying. Right. And we're watching their moves and we can really see what their motives are.

[C]

We can. And that's a really important point because no matter what Apple does, no matter what Vehicle does and celebrate the good things that you do like parents, it's still mostly on us. Until there's enough punitive pressure to design technologies with kids in mind in the first place, which is the world I wish we'd lived in, that there were a set of auditable standards that held companies accountable, that C Suite CTOs CEOs were personally liable if their auditable standards related to designing products with children in mind were not adhered to. Then the courtroom doors could be flung open and we could go after them personally liability wise, like we did after Sarbanes Oxen. Like that's the world that I want in that post and rocking world we lived in back in the early 2000s. That's sort of my upbringing in a business world is you create liability and all of a sudden corporate behavior changes. But until we live in that world, we're still going to be stuck with changes that happen a little bit too late and we're still going to have to own a lot of this. Which is why there are amazing tools out there like Bark, like their phone, like their software, like organizations like yours and mine, Nikki and Bark with explaining things to try to make it as simple as possible for parents because it still falls on us and we want to help in any way we can. And doing certain things consistently and persistently, like modeling like us parents using our phones in the same way that we want our kids to is just A simple way to do that.

[A]

And last question for you, and we got this from some parents, is the iPhone. Once these updates are in place in the fall, would you consider the iPhone a safe option for children, minors?

[C]

So there's no such thing as a safe option? There are safer options. I think the iPhone will be slightly safer. It'll be slightly more automatic in its protections. But in the same way that when Google says, hey, we have restricted mode, I don't trust the morality and the protection of my kids. To Google, it's still always verifiable, foreign trust. And so I think it'll be better, but I still think there are steps that need to be taken. First, a kid's first phone should never be an iPhone. I don't care if they're 15, let's start them out on something that lets us whether or not they can handle a slot machine in their pocket. That's why my son uses the bark phone. That's why my son has these steps he's going through in order to determine whether or not neurologically, relationally, emotionally, spiritually, he can handle this insane technology that we hand our kids. And so I don't care what Apple rolls out in September with iOS 27 or 26, it's still not the safest phone for kids. It'll be better, but it's not the first phone for kids.

[A]

Chris, thank you so much for joining us from the airport. You're amazing. And before we let you go, we want to let parents know, if they don't already, that you have a brand new book, Five Habits of the Tech Ready Family. I have my copy. We're so happy for you. How's it going so far?

[C]

Well, it's. You almost feel like the fish at the end of Finding Nemo. They get across the street and then they're floating in the water and you go, now what? You've done all this work and you've written the book, you've edited it, you've read it a thousand times, you're kind of tired of it. And then you market it and you get it out. And the day after launch you're sort of like, okay, now you kind of react and see what people say and it's this vulnerability because you can't change it. It's not like a blog post that I can go edit.

[A]

Right, Right.

[C]

So it's out. It's out in the world. It's done. Titania, you know, from parental control, it's out there, this vulnerability. So I just want to try to tip the scales in parents direction in the face of this insane tech just to give us more tools to try to increase that confidence and empowerment and just calm that parents so desperately need in digital world. That is not going to change fast enough. So that's why it's out there and I hope it's a help.

[A]

It is a help and we, we do have a lot of tools and unfortunately like you said Chris, it's really a lot on the parents when it comes to keeping our kids safe online and that goes through the devices that we're choosing to give our kids when that happens and educating our kids and communicating with them through that whole process. And so Chris thank you for joining us to Tonya, thank you for everything that bark does and also for creating parental control that Chris mentioned your book which is an incredible tool for parents and let's stay in touch with parents who are listening as things roll out and we will keep everybody updated. So thank you guys so much for being here.

[B]

Thanks Nikki.